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Pinball Magazine & Pinball News bonus PINcast: the Steve Ritchie interview

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·50m 40s·analyzed·Apr 12, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Steve Ritchie details his legendary design career and recent move to Jersey Jack Pinball.

Summary

Steve Ritchie, legendary pinball designer, discusses his transition from Stern Pinball to Jersey Jack Pinball after eight months. He reflects on his 40+ year career spanning Atari, Williams, and Stern; his collaboration with Lyman Sheets on Spider-Man and AC/DC; the challenges of licensing (particularly Led Zeppelin and Star Wars); and his optimism about design freedom at Jersey Jack. He is currently working on his first JJP design with a dedicated team and reports directly to Leonard Abbas.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie left Stern Pinball in August (implied 2024) and joined Jersey Jack Pinball

    high confidence · Jonathan and Martin confirm this at the opening; Steve confirms he 'just started talking to Leonard Abbas' and joined after months of relationship-building

  • Ritchie was fired by Stern in October 2008 along with most of the company staff, was unemployed for 28 months, and had to sell personal memorabilia and a house to survive

    high confidence · Steve directly describes the event: 'I just got a call one day in 2008, I think it was October... I was out of work for 28 months.'

  • Jersey Jack's design process is more like Williams than Stern, with greater creative freedom and larger bill of materials

    high confidence · Steve states: 'It's more like Williams than Stern. we have a lot more creative freedom here than at Stern and we have a larger bill of materials'

  • Some of Ritchie's games at Stern were incomplete due to budget constraints, which he disliked

    high confidence · Steve: 'some of my games at stern were not complete that that was not to my liking'

  • Led Zeppelin licensing constraints prevented Ritchie from including 'Stairway to Heaven' and 'Heartbreaker' despite his requests, which disappointed him significantly

    high confidence · Steve directly states: 'The two I wanted to get on the game were Heartbreaker and Stairway to Heaven. And they just wouldn't give them to me.'

  • Ritchie believes AC/DC, Star Trek, and Metallica were the three games that enabled Stern's business expansion

    medium confidence · Steve: 'I really think that the reason that big building of Stern over there exists is because of three games, really. I think it was ACDC and Star Trek and Metallica.'

  • Jersey Jack obtains incredibly complete licenses, unlike Stern's later experiences

    high confidence · Steve: 'When Jersey Jack gets a license, it is incredibly complete'

  • Ritchie has his own dedicated team at Jersey Jack including one lead programmer, two additional programmers, and a mechanical engineer

Notable Quotes

  • “I was looking to get out of Stern and I thought that Jersey Jack was a very good opportunity to make games the way I like to make them.”

    Steve Ritchie @ early in interview — Directly explains his motivation for leaving Stern after ~15 years

  • “This is the best company I ever worked for. As far as the people go, well, everybody from Leonard on down, they're good people and we just get along.”

    Steve Ritchie @ mid-interview — Strong endorsement of Jersey Jack culture compared to Williams/Stern; indicates personal satisfaction with move

  • “I could not imagine a Let's Open game without Stairway to Heaven. I don't even know how I would have played it, but I had a Stairway to Heaven mechanism in mind, and I wanted to build that, and I was not allowed to.”

    Steve Ritchie @ when discussing Led Zeppelin — Core frustration with Led Zeppelin licensing; indicates major design compromise that drove departure from Stern

  • “no stairway to heaven, no Stern, no Steve. Bye.”

    Steve Ritchie @ discussing Led Zeppelin decision point — Summarizes his breaking point; dramatic statement of the Led Zeppelin disappointment as catalyst for leaving

  • “I think a pinball machine needs a license these days to connect because you know people have favorite movies favorite bands... it's good to have that to connect with”

    Steve Ritchie @ discussing licensed vs unlicensed games — Philosophy on modern pinball design; argues licensing is now necessary for commercial success

  • “When Jersey Jack gets a license, it is incredibly complete, but we don't do it. That's it.”

    Steve Ritchie @ contrasting JJP licensing approach — Emphasizes key difference between JJP and Stern in negotiating comprehensive licenses

  • “I'm going to do everything I can to make Jersey Jack successful. It comes from the heart. These people are great.”

    Steve Ritchie @ closing on JJP experience — Shows emotional investment and commitment to new employer; contrasts with pragmatic Stern era

Entities

Steve RitchiepersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyLeonard AbbaspersonBrett AbbaspersonLyman SheetspersonJonathan HoustonpersonMartin Ayubperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern Pinball experienced major layoff in October 2008 affecting most staff; company nearly collapsed; Ritchie was unemployed 28 months

    high · Ritchie: 'I just got a call one day in 2008, I think it was October... I was out of work for 28 months.' He had to sell house and memorabilia to survive.

  • ?

    event_signal: Interview recorded at Texas Pinball Festival two weeks prior to release; Ritchie met with Jonathan Houston and Martin Ayub to discuss his career and transition to Jersey Jack

    high · Jonathan/Martin intro: 'We met two weeks ago at the Texas Pinball Festival and that's where we basically finally set up the interview that you are about to listen to'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Lyman Sheets' legacy highly respected; his rule set innovations adopted by other programmers; his death deeply felt in community

    medium · Ritchie: 'I would say he's probably the most... I think people like his rules and you'll see other programmers incorporating them in games... he created some stuff very groundbreaking... I miss him very much. A lot of people do.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack operates with larger bill of materials and greater creative freedom than Stern, similar to classic Williams approach; positions as alternative to Stern's constraints

    high · Ritchie: 'It's more like Williams than Stern. we have a lot more creative freedom here than at Stern and we have a larger bill of materials'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Ritchie emphasizes modern pinball games require strong IP licenses to connect with audiences; believes unlicensed games lack commercial viability despite multimedia assets

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.152

0:00
I am very much looking forward to an interview with Jonathan Houston and Martin Ayub. It's about pinball. They're old friends and I think it's going to be a very fun time.
0:14
At last, the Steve Ritchie interview. Hi, my name is Jonathan Houston. I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine and I'm here with... I'm Martin A. and I'm the editor of Pinball News, and we're here for this very special bonus podcast in which we get to speak, at long last, with Mr. Steve Ritchie. And for those not in the know, Steve Ritchie is a legendary pinball designer, having designed games from the early, sorry, from the late 70s, I would say, starting at Atari, then moving to Williams, doing hit games like Flash, Black Knight. Terminator 2 Tomcat Star Trek Next Gen the list goes on and on and he worked for Stern did quite a few games for Stern, Terminator 3 World Poker Tour, Spiderman of course, ACDC Star Trek Star Wars and most recently the latest game that came out from him at Stern was Led Zeppelin which is a game that we'll be discussing as well. Yeah, plenty to talk about there. Yeah. And so the interesting thing is, as you might know, Steve Ritchie is currently working for Jersey Jack Pinball. We were informed by Steve himself up front that he would be leaving Stern and joining Jersey Jack Pinball. And ever since both Steve and us, so to speak, have been looking to get together and do an interview. We met two weeks ago at the Texas Pinball Festival and that's where we basically finally set up the interview that you are about to listen to. Yes, and I think that time delay, the eight months that he's been at Jersey Jack, helps our interview because we're able to give that perspective on his experiences of working there now, rather than having just joined them as it would have been back in August. So he can and will, I'm sure, tell us about how it is working at Jersey Jack, how it compares to his previous experiences and what plans he has. right yeah I think it turned out to be a great interview obviously we're recording this after the fact that we already talked to Steve so we know what's been discussed and well I suggest we don't let you wait any longer yeah let's hear from the man himself exactly yeah so over to Steve August of last year you joined Jersey Jack Pinball I did How did that happen? Can you talk to us about that? Well, I just started talking to Leonard Abbas and his family and Brett and just formed a relationship. I was looking to get out of Stern and I thought that Jersey Jack was a very good opportunity to make games the way I like to make them. I know it sounds odd, but that's how it happened, pretty much. We met for a couple of months, and there was another period in time in the past, like five years ago or six years ago. We tried that also, but we'll get into that later. Anyway, my relationship with Leonard and Brett is great. I report to Leonard, and it's a nice connection. and he is he's a great guy he's an incredible person he's like so easy to talk to and get along with and um very down to earth right um so was i mean how long have you known leonard and brett about i think it's about six years by now six and a half years something like that the first time that i uh tried to do you know tried to work with them i ended up i ended up getting cold feet and um i met met someone else that i just i didn't think it would work out right okay so that was around the time that they first um became investors in jersey jack pinball i guess yeah i'm not positive about when that happened i haven't paid attention i was busy with nose to the grindstone at stern sure sure but so so when you when you uh spoke to to leonard this most recent time and worked out a deal to join Jersey Jack Pinball. What did they want you to do? What do they want you to bring to the company? You know, they expect good game designs. You know, I'm helping any way I can to bring my knowledge to bear here. And there aren't many people here that have, you know, my experience. And so I'm, I don't know, I'm just helping wherever I can. And that's one of the requirements. I am, you know, the first and foremost is a game design and, you know, and whatever follows that. Right. So would you say you're like a mentor for Eric and Mark Seiden?

high confidence · Steve: 'I do have a team... I have my own mechanical engineer and I have one, two, three programmers that will build the game when the time comes.'

  • Ritchie's first Jersey Jack whitewood has inserts installed and is ready for varnishing before parts assembly begins

    high confidence · Steve: 'I built the first white wood... Inserts have been installed, and it's ready to be built up. The next thing we're going to do is varnish the play field.'

  • Ritchie typically achieves 85% yield on first drawings, requiring 15% fixes/changes during build-up

    medium confidence · Steve: 'I normally have like an 85% yield when I finish a first drawing, something like that, which means that I'll have to fix 15% of the game or change it.'

  • “People with a lot of pinball experience are going to give me better information than someone who doesn't know what they're playing or looking at.”

    Steve Ritchie @ discussing programmer collaboration — Philosophy on team composition; preference for experienced pinball specialists

    • Pat Lawlor
    person
    John Borgperson
    Eric Seidenperson
    Mark Seidenperson
    Gary Sternperson
    Dave Petersonperson
    Duncan Brownperson
    Bill Gruppperson
    Dan Lejcikperson
    Led Zeppelingame
    AC/DCgame
    Spider-Mangame
    Star Warsgame
    Black Knight: Sword of Ragegame
    World Poker Tourgame

    medium · Ritchie: 'I think a pinball machine needs a license these days to connect because you know people have favorite movies favorite bands... it's good to have that to connect with'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack pursues complete licensing packages unlike Stern's fragmented approach; Ritchie's design methodology emphasizes close collaboration between designer, programmer, and mechanical engineer from project start

    high · Ritchie: 'When Jersey Jack gets a license, it is incredibly complete'; describes having programmers in his office reviewing drawings and talking weekly about features

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Star Wars licensing became complicated when Disney acquired Lucasfilm mid-project; required approvals for 27 art panes across cabinet variants, backbox, and playfields

    high · Ritchie: 'it was difficult to work with the combination of Lucasfilm and Disney later, because right in the middle of the Star Wars game, they purchased Lucasfilm... it just took a long time'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Led Zeppelin licensing prevented Ritchie from including 'Stairway to Heaven' and 'Heartbreaker' despite requests; major artistic compromise that contributed to his departure from Stern

    high · Ritchie directly describes the constraint and his disappointment: 'no stairway to heaven, no Stern, no Steve. Bye.' Describes having Stairway mechanism in mind but being 'not allowed to'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie, legendary designer, transitions from Stern Pinball to Jersey Jack Pinball after 8 months (officially joined August 2024)

    high · Ritchie confirms joining in August; Jonathan/Martin note 8-month tenure; significant shift of top-tier talent from large manufacturer to boutique competitor

  • ?

    product_concern: Some of Ritchie's games at Stern were incomplete due to budget constraints, contrary to his design vision

    high · Ritchie: 'some of my games at stern were not complete that that was not to my liking'; contrasts with Jersey Jack where he can make complete games without removing features

  • ?

    product_strategy: Ritchie is in active development of first Jersey Jack game; whitewood with inserts installed, ready for playfield varnishing, followed by parts assembly and build-up

    high · Ritchie: 'I built the first white wood... Inserts have been installed, and it's ready to be built up. The next thing we're going to do is varnish the play field.'

    • 5:56
    To some degree, yes. because, yeah, but they've taught me stuff too. Mark has been like an apprentice to me. I have helped him start a design, but now he's on his own design, and he's doing very well. Eric is extremely intelligent and very educated.
    6:19
    There are things that he could never have possibly learned, you know, unless somebody told him from the old days at Williams or, you know, or at Stern. So I'm helping him with that. He's helping me with other things, parts. And I will shortly be learning how to cut parts with a laser cutter and, you know, sort of do my own stuff. I'm probably never going to be as good as he is at that, but that's okay. I just want to learn and try.
    6:50
    That's great. Now, we wanted to interview you originally when you first joined Jersey Jack, But it's good now that we can do it because you've had the experience of being there for quite a few months. So with that knowledge, how would you compare the way games are designed and built at Jersey Jack compared to at Williams and also at Stern? It's more like Williams than Stern. we have a lot more creative freedom here than at Stern and we have a larger bill of materials and so immediately that's inviting to me I just don't have to take things out of games right now and I'm not going to be extremely extravagant with what goes into a game but you know we want to make money but I also want the game to be complete and some of my games at stern were not complete that that was not to my liking and as far as the um the people you're working with and um design teams now obviously when you were at williams there was now each game had its own design team um and presumably the same when you're at stern but jersey jack very much has a sort of all hands to the pump everybody works on every game in sequence type of attitude at the moment. Is that something which is manageable going forward? Yeah, I mean, we definitely have teams now. I have a team of people and they'll be working. I mean, they do other things while I'm making a drawing. They help wherever they can. But once I get a drawing and my whitewood built up, we will begin, you know, in earnest to make the game happen. So do you have your own mechanical engineer, your own software designer? I do. I have my own mechanical engineer and I have one, two,
    8:52
    three programmers that will build the game when the time comes. So I do have a team and it's good and it took a while to make that happen, but it happened. Are you already in the position to talk about at what stage you are with your first design for Jersey Jack pinball or is that off limits? I can tell you, you know, I built the first white wood. I mean, I didn't build it. It was cut here. Inserts have been installed, and it's ready to be built up. The next thing we're going to do is varnish the play field. I'm going to do that with a guy named Dan Lejcik. He may be doing it himself. I don't know, but it will happen any day, and then we can start amassing parts and building it up. So, from my understanding, does that mean that you're, these days, as a designer, more doing the cat work, so to speak, the playfield will be cut and someone else is building it up, or are you still building the playfield once it's ready to be built up yourself? No, I always help build the playfield, usually with a guy in a lab, you know, we put it together, scrounge parts up, and wait for parts to come in that have to be made outside.
    10:15
    I never do it alone. I always do it with someone else and sometimes two people. So that's going to be, I'm excited about that. It's fun. It's like normally I have like an 85% yield when I finish a first drawing, something like that, which means that I'll have to fix 15% of the game or change it. What I do is I build up the whitewood and as soon as it's hot and all the solenoids and everything work, I don't care about lights at this point. As soon as I make it work and play it, as soon as I find problems, I mean, one or two days later, I will begin ripping into it to fix it and change whatever doesn't work. That's kind of shocking for some people. And then I'll begin a new whitewood and transfer the parts that I can use from that game to the next whitewood.
    11:05
    It's not a very expensive process here. It might be a bit of an odd question to ask, but are you enjoying yourself right now better than you were at Stern or Williams? Actually, I'm enjoying myself much more here. This is the best company I ever worked for. As far as the people go, well, everybody from Leonard on down, they're good people and we just get along. and I'm going to do everything I can to make Jersey Jack successful. It comes from the heart. These people are great. Well, you've certainly got some experience of building up companies and making them highly successful. If we go all the way back to when you first started working for Stern and did the Spider-Man game, which was a huge success, and I don't know whether it was the biggest seller, but must be one of the biggest sellers that they ever had.
    12:04
    That was back when you were Steve Ritchie Productions and you were on contract to Stern. How was that different from being a contractor to actually being an employee? Was it easier? Was it harder? Was it basically the same? What I liked about it was I could live in California and work at home for two or three weeks, and then I would come to Stern for two or three weeks. It meant a lot of travel, but it worked great I mean I guess I did that for like six years And then well in 2008 I got fired Do you want to tell us about what happened then I just got a call one day in 2008, I think it was October, at home in Illinois.
    12:55
    And I found out that myself and most of the people at Stern were fired. I think the company was about to die. I know why, but I'm not going to speak about it. It was a sad time. I was out of work for 28 months. And a tough time for you. You ended up selling an awful lot of your own personal gains and memorabilia. I did. I had to because, you know, I have a wife to take care of. It's like, also, I mean, when 2008 hit, I owned a house worth about, well, in 2007, It was worth $957,000, and boy, do I wish I would have sold it. I ended up selling it for about $30,000 more than what I paid for it. So I walked away with not much. So that really affected everything. Burned off my savings, whatever. It was a sad time.
    13:54
    It was. But I have to say, you were sort of at the forefront, really, I think, of developing add-ons and mods for games with the side rails and the various extra parts that you were selling for your games through your company at that time and through your web store. Right. I did some manufacturing. But, you know, I did what I could. Nobody in California wanted a person that was 59 or 60 years old. I mean, it was just like I could not even find a job as a UPS driver. But one of the reasons was I was very far from like, you know, a major city, 50 miles away. And that was a problem. But I went to a few interviews and, you know, I could have worked for like a slot machine company. I looked for work there also, but they didn't hire me. And I don't know.
    14:46
    It was a bad time. We need to talk about something else. Yeah. Well, let's talk about happier times. of when you were rehired and came back to make the amazing ACDC. Yeah, it was a great time. Dave Peterson had come to Stern and he had a much more global view than Gary. And he said to me, make the game you want to make.
    15:12
    That kind of changed over the years. But at that time, there was a decent bill of materials to work with. Wyman and I were both, you know, hot to make it happen. And we did our best work. And we also did a very important thing that everybody should do. Not all designers do it. Some people just, some designers just go, I'm going to make a game. And when I'm done drawing it, I'll pass it on to programmers.
    15:40
    But I think it's much better when, like, if Wyman and I would sit down and talk about the whole play field and all the features we wanted to have on it and how it tied into the songs. and music and just an ambiance that we wanted to develop. And it was a lot of fun. And it was also, you know, it turned out to be a very good game and Stern's bestseller. Yeah, absolutely. And that was a sort of a working practice, I guess, which you've wanted to continue, you know, being so closely involved with the software developer. and I guess the mechanical engineer as well, right from the very start. Right. It's a much better way to do it. That's how I'm doing it here.
    16:30
    I have them in my office. They're looking at my drawing, and we are talking about things, you know, a few times a week. You mentioned on ACDC you could basically make the game that you wanted to make. Was ACDC your first pick for a license when you came back? Yeah. I mean, it was the first game that I did when I came back, yes. Right.
    16:57
    Sorry. Was the theme ACDC? Was it like, if I can do anything I want, I want to do ACDC? Or was this one of the options that you had to choose from? It was meant to be ACDC from the very beginning. Gary Stern is very into rock and roll. It's like, you know, we've had some good times at concerts and stuff. And, you know, he he loves ACDC. So we went to New York to get the license from his manager. And it was like it was the only rule was don't include or bring up or use the reference to Bon Scott, who's been dead for like 35 years. It's like I can't believe that, you know, that people still complain about Brian because he's such a good he's a great vocalist. I mean, he was then. I don't know about now. I think he's retired, but, you know, he's done a great job. So I love the, you know, that was the only thing. And they gave us like a hard drive filled with every picture, probably taken, you know, official photograph and all this other stuff. It was great material. And they didn't really, you know, they looked at our play field, but they just approved everything.
    18:11
    Well, that must be a nice experience to have. And probably not one that's repeated too many times. 20 right it's not the only other one that compared to that is terminator 2 was going to meet uh james cameras anyway we went to lightstone productions for t2 and we were building a video game at the same time at williams and uh so we got we got daily videos whatever they shot the day before we would get the next day on uh cassettes you know um and just all kinds of stuff They loaned us the chip. They loaned us the Terminator arm inside a glass tube and skulls. We had to give them back, but it was just amazing the access that we had. But that license was one of the probably one of the last ones where you were bringing out a movie based pinball or a pinball company was bringing out a movie based pinball to tie in with the launch of the movie. That's right. We were in the theaters with the games on the day it opened, which was July the 4th, 1993, maybe.
    19:19
    Not positive of the year. 92, I think. Yeah, 92. But we were in the theaters with machines, even at the grand opening, I guess they call it. Does that put an awful lot of pressure on you to make sure the game is ready in time for that? yeah but it's good pressure it's good pressure because you gotta rock and roll you have to stay busy and make it happen and everybody in the you know on the team knew that and uh it was fun just a lot of fun now obviously you've had to deal with i mean that was a great that was a great license and you and you've done some great licenses um since including acdc and spider-man but you also had to deal with some shall we say less great licenses or themes and licenses you weren't particularly keen on working on? It was difficult to work with the combination of Lucasfilm and Disney later, because right in the middle of the Star Wars game, they purchased Lucasfilm.
    20:29
    I ended up running, we all did, We all ended up, you know, waiting a long time for approvals. And there were, you know, 27 different art, you know, panes, I'll say. You know, three fronts of the cabinet, three sets of sides. That's a total of six sides of the cabinet. And, you know, another six of the back box and three back glasses, two plastic sets, and two play fields. So it's a lot of stuff. anyway it just took a long time I'm not upset about how it came out it turned out okay it was just it was kind of griech kind of I'm sure it was but you also had some licenses I mean obviously Star Wars and anything related to that is a is almost a classic pinball license now because there have been so many Star Wars based games but you also had to deal with other less obvious or less suitable licenses and themes for games like poker, for instance.
    21:38
    Yeah, poker. Texas Hold'em in particular. And that must have been a tough one to turn into a game. It was. It was, well, Gary and Michael Donald brought me into an office and they said, we want you to do, you know, a poker game. And I go, I can't believe you're asking me that. We haven't had a poker game or any kind of card game for 30 years. And it's like there's a good reason. And I just didn't understand how they could want it so bad. But they said we have a great license, World Poker Tour. I said, I really don't want to do it because I don't think it will be successful. and they said we want you to do it or you're not going to work here.
    22:29
    Okay. That's tough. I did it. You know, looking back, Keith Johnson did a great job. You know, I'm not ashamed of the play field at all. I mean, it's got everything but the kitchen sink on it and it plays nice. It's fun. It's just that, you know, I think we made like 1,500 of those games. It just wasn't a good seller.
    22:53
    And you could play poker on it. I mean, you really could. I would say Keith included every nuance of Texas Hold'em poker.
    23:03
    Even the name of the cards, you know, that they used. Yeah, yeah. Did you think you'd get away with putting that many drop targets in the game?
    23:13
    No one stopped me. And so I did it. You know, I just, I did it because, well, there was a lot of cards there. We could make hands out of them, and that was the coolest thing. You know, I also like playing up on the top play field. You know, the ace in the hole unit and the thing that captures the ball, that's fun. And, you know, it was a loser theme, though. and I think after that they thought you know maybe the designers should like what they're doing as they work on a game and if I can't believe that it's going to be a big hit it's just I have to believe that from the very beginning I have to because that's what I want I want that I want a game to be great and if it isn't just it doesn't sell I mean you know I'm disappointed when that happens tapping into that obviously when you started in the business games had original themes at williams later on licenses were introduced at this point would you still have the same pleasure in working on a non-licensed game than on a licensed game where you really like the property you know it's it's great to have like like black knight sort of rage that game was, it's kind of a license but not really. I didn't have to get approvals from anyone.
    24:42
    Matt Cristiano and Rick are my friends at Planetary Pinball and they had the license and so we just got along and it turned out very well. Anyway,
    24:52
    it's, what is it? I myself do not, I think a pinball machine needs a license these days to connect because you know people have favorite movies favorite bands you know they just have it's not just about movies and bands but that's most of them it's good to have that to connect with you know I have one coming up that I can wait to get started on but it going to be a while Do you think that with modern games requiring so much in the way of multimedia video, audio, music, that creating an unlicensed game is just not practical? You need all those assets to be provided, or at least some of them to be provided to you to get the story and to give you video clips and sound calls and music tracks in order to build the game? That's a good point. I mean, yeah, all that stuff is available usually when we get a license. It is good. It makes it a little easier on the team. If we can't get stuff, then we have to make stuff up. The artwork on Black Knight, for instance, I love it. It's great. It was done by a great team of people. And a large team of people. But they also liked the freedom. They liked the freedom. I didn't create those characters. They did.
    26:23
    And so it's, I don't know. That part's beautiful. We had good music. Some people thought it was, like, unrelenting.
    26:35
    There's an alternate set of tunes in the game, though, that very few people know about. you can play it it's a little more mellow but myself i like all the adrenaline that music um produces i just do when i play the game well that does just bring us on i guess to uh to the question of uh the led zeppelin game because we're talking about great music and lots of assets and um exactly how that turned out and i think it's no no secret that you weren't entirely happy with the way the process went in making that game and getting what you wanted into it. Can you tell us anything about that? Yeah, kind of depressing. I chose a bunch of songs and some other people grabbed a couple songs and traded them out. And the two I wanted to get on the game were Heartbreaker and Stairway to Heaven. And they just wouldn't give them to me. and I could not imagine, I don't think anybody could imagine a Let's Open game without Stairway to Heaven. I don't even know how I would have played it, but I had a Stairway to Heaven mechanism in mind, and I wanted to build that, and I was not allowed to, and I just, you know, it's a big cloud hanging over the game. We did the best we could with it. But I just, yeah, I was disappointed that they didn't get the rest of the license. And that's just, that's not going to be a problem here. When Jersey Jack gets a license, it is incredibly complete, but we don't do it. That's it.
    28:13
    Were you a big fan of Led Zeppelin going into the design process? Of course. I loved it. Everybody wanted it for years and years. I wanted it, you know, while I was at Atari, okay? that long ago. I saw them. I saw Let's Up with them like three times in my life. One time from the second row at the Berklee Community Theater. It was just, they're an incredible band. They changed music forever in kind of a, you know, you know the history. You're not as old as me, but nearly.
    28:46
    Anyway. Yeah, I wanted it badly, and I wanted to make it, you know, the way a game should be made. It was no secret that John Borg wanted to do a Led Zeppelin game for a very long time. And when Stern goes after the license, then you get it. Did that create any tension or was it okay with everybody? I don't know. John showed no disappointment. One of us was going to get it. Like I said, every designer would have loved to have that license. Well, persons of, let's say, my age or merely, you know, But we, you know, John Borg did Rush recently, and it's like, you know, music is nice. I remember them, too. It's just, you know, I don't know if he was angry or not, but he got mine, which was. Turtles? No, I've never seen turtles.
    29:45
    Unless somebody said, OK, we're going to fire you if you don't do it. I might do it. It would be hard for me to get my heart into that. Anyway, yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy. I asked for that. So he got that. I got Led Zeppelin. Are you glad that you got Led Zeppelin and he got Guardians?
    30:04
    I guess. I mean, really not in the way that we, you know, not in terms of assets. I don't think either of us got a lot of assets from either title.
    30:15
    But it was, I don't know. So would you say then that your experience of doing Led Zeppelin and the disappointment you had with that, that was like the straw that broke the camel's back and you decided that now was the time to make a move? Well, yeah, I mean, I was saying to myself, you know, no stairway to heaven, no Stern, no Steve. Bye. But I didn't leave right then. I had an obligation to develop another game, so I left them two Whitewoods, a Pro and a Premium LE. Right. And do you know what's happening to that game, which you left behind? I guess we can't really talk about the license. I have no idea what's going on there with it not a word ok now let's go back to something I was talking about a little earlier which was well first of all Spider-Man and of course then ACDC and those were hugely successful games which probably saved the company and they were amazing collaborations between yourself and Lyman Sheets can you give us a little insight into the process that you go through or went through when you were working on those games with Lyman and the sort of relationship the two of you had yeah I mean we had a great relationship he was a good friend of mine and it's sad what happened I miss him very much a lot of people do he made some great stuff and um i would say i would say he's probably the most um i think people like his rules and you'll see other programmers incorporating them in games he he created some stuff very you know very groundbreaking and it's been used since then by other other games and programs and programmers, I'm sorry.
    32:26
    You know, he's made a mark that's incredible. Anyway, with ACDC, we had, like I said, everything we wanted. And so we built the game with, you know, I don't know, passion. That's it. You know, like we're not, nothing was holding us back and it was great. And in between, I really think that the reason that big building of Stern over there exists is because of three games, really. I think it was ACDC and Star Trek and Metallica. Those three games made it possible for them to advance. You're now working at Jersey Jack with new programmers. Are you trying to create that same interaction that you had with Lyman, also with them to get to the game that you want it to be. Absolutely. It's like, it's fun. I am, like I said, I'm talking with three programmers. One programmer will be the lead programmer, and he is a gifted guy with tools and, I'm sorry, rules, not tools. He's good with tools too, though. He's developed a very nice graphic equalizer. We are, it's a cool advance. yes I'm very happy to work with him I knew the other guys too JT was a guy I didn't know Duncan Brown is one of the programmers and we're all friends he's sort of a pinball historian you know an outrageously good programmer and Bill Grupp also same a great programmer and we've been friends for years worked together at Williams maybe not on the same games you know I don't have Keith is working with someone else and say, oh, that's okay. But, you know, I call them in, let them look at my game, tell me what he thinks. I like this. You know, I like all of that. People with a lot of pinball experience are going to give me better information than someone who doesn't know what they're playing or looking at. You know what I mean? Okay. I mean, everybody here knows what they're looking at as far as pinball goes, but about designing one, maybe not. when you started in the industry it was very common that games would be put on test so you could see how they performed what the earnings were but also if there were any issues when they were being played in the wild i think it was probably with world poker tour that was probably the last game that went on test and after that it was games weren't put out on test anymore is that something you'd like to get back to to to put games in the wild and see how they perform when other people play them or do you miss it okay that situation is not true at all here we have games out on test and um the uh you know they they choose a couple of locations that we can go visit and see what's going on and they're in contact with us telling us if anything is wrong and I'm going to use those locations for my game also. So I'm glad to see that. CERN didn't do too much of that in the later years. Yeah, we're testing because it's a good thing to do. Also life testing. We make a device, we stick it on a rack, power it up and make it just repeat its action over and over and over again until it breaks or until we find out that it's going to be a strong device that will work over a long period of time and many cycles. I like a million cycles on things that I make. Like the dragon for Game of Thrones. For all I know, it's still on test in the game room there just lapping its wings like this. Black knight heads that are doing this and lights are going and all this. They're probably still there. I don't know though. I haven't been there in what, eight months or seven months. and picking up a point that jonathan just made when you started it the industry was very much more about how much a game would earn on location now it's now it seems to be a lot more focused on home sales and earnings are less important is that something which influences your design decisions when creating a game? I'm always going to look at earnings when we put them out on test. You have to. I just, I, there is less of that, no doubt, because enthusiast purchases, if they want a theme, they'll just buy it, and I don't know how they could make a decision like that, but they do. And you know, I'm grateful because the pinball business is doing extremely well right now. You always have to wonder how long will this last how long will it last because pinball has been like this over the years it has but um but you've been there a long a long time and you're not the only one of course when you when you join jersey jack pinball um pat lawler was there to meet you and greet you as you came into the building for the first time how is it um working in the same building and for the same company as Pat after all these years because you were obviously back at you were you were both working as contractors at Stern for a while so your paths crossed a lot we getting along great we uh you know we have fun just talking you know we're like the two geezers of the pinball world in this building and uh you know I think we are the oldest people in the whole company but you know we have a wealth of experience and you know pat's done a great job you know making things happen here it's a you know the playfield line um between him and bill grup and michael j fox looks a lot like williams and it's way more flexible than any line i've ever seen before it's so great because at any point on the line you can flip the playfield upside down because they're all on rotisseries from the very beginning. You can rotate them, move it around so the part you need to put on is easier to get to. And they can be slid down the rollers, and it's ideal for catching a mistake, for instance. And then you can just back up, flip them all over, and fix them in mass if there's a problem with somebody not doing something right. Anyway, that's been pretty helpful to me, too. I'm not going to, you know, we're getting along. It's great. I think much better than people thought. Well, we're both older. We're not in competition, really. It's like it's just fun to talk about the old days. And he reminds me of things that I forgot. And I remind him of things that he forgot. And so, I don't know. It's been interesting.
    39:39
    He lives right next door, right over there. Right. Eric is over there. And when you joined JJP, was it important that you were reporting directly to Leonard? Yeah. It's like I want to know what he wants from me, and I do. It's very clear, and I'm going to deliver a good product for him and for the company. I want the company to succeed, and I'm going to do everything I can to make it succeed. Which brings me to the question. How do you see the future of pinball? You just indicated it sort of goes in a wave up and down all the time. You guys have been alive during these periods. You've seen it happen. And it's like, you know, I think it's super strong right now for everybody in the business. All companies are selling pinball machines that make them. And, you know, I'm a little gun-shy because of the past. I just wonder how long. I'm not indicating that it's going to drop, that the sales are going to go away one day. I am not predicting that. I don't even want to think about that. It's been really great, and I hope it continues to be.
    40:54
    Does it surprise you how popular pinball is now, given the huge number of different types of entertainment available both in the home and out of the home, that pinball has come back and become so popular both on location and for home purchase. It has, and it's amazing. You know, the enthusiast market, collectors, it seems to be endless. They all want new games. I think pinball machines also have become like a status symbol, at least in the United States. You have one or two or maybe a whole game room full. And I think that's part of what drives it. I think another part is the pandemic. You know, people wanted pinball machines to play. They wanted to simulate being at an arcade or, you know, just playing in competition. And I don't know. I think we sold a lot of games because people were bored at home. But that number of games is not coming down, even though the pandemic is mostly over here. I don't know how it is in Europe. and with the game that you're designing there at Jersey Jack I'm guessing there is quite a few games in front of that waiting to be produced does that give you a freedom not having a big time pressure on to keep the line rolling? Oh I have time pressure and there's only one game ahead of me. So it's like things are going to pick up and start moving faster here because we have to. We want to get the best factory yield we can.
    42:37
    This is an opportunity to do that, to sell maximum amount of games. In terms of design, do you think we've seen the limits that we can put on pinball in terms of what you can put inside a cabinet? Or do you think that there will be some creative mind that comes up with a way to put pinball in a different type of cabinet and all of a sudden a whole new array of options becomes available um i think it is limitless i have some new devices never before seen on this game and um i'm excited about them they'll they'll be more probably but you know it's um i'll know when i get my whitewood working yeah I do not see limitations with anything as long as we are creative and thinking about with me it's how the ball moves that's the most important thing how it feels to make a shot I look for satisfaction I want to feel like I did something good and I want the game to respond smoothly and you know and I want it to be rowdy. I want it to be a mechanical action pinball machine.
    43:54
    I want great music. I want a lot of stuff. Great artwork. And I think we're going to achieve that here. And I have to ask, do you intend to keep designing games forever? Or do you see, could you imagine, for instance, that you would be in charge of game design at Jersey Jack Pinball and would have a more managerial role rather than actually designing games yourself? I don't see that. I see myself designing games because I really enjoy it. You know, it's a passion, and that's how it is. I could retire, but I don't want to.
    44:41
    I think it's good to have a job to go to every day. one of my good friends, Larry DeMar, I spoke to him on the phone yesterday. It was kind of breakthrough, but I had brand new hearing aids on that pumped the phone directly into my, I haven't heard his voice in a long time. So I talked to him for a while, found out that, you know, he retired, he sold his company, but he didn't retire. He's working again because he can't sit still. It's not healthy to sit still, just not. We look forward to seeing much more Steve Ritchie designs come into production and on location and into people's homes, of course. I think we're about to round this up unless Martin has some more questions he would like to ask. No, I was just going to, just on a sort of fairly random basis, I was just going to ask if you miss the California weather. now you're living in Chicago and could you ever see yourself retiring back to California again? I could but I don't really know if it's a real thing I mean the weather here sucks it just does and I would like to go back to California but there's no pinball there you know pinball is all right here we're back to three companies in the Chicago land area and it's a great thing. Yes, it's a great thing, and I'm not going to, you know, I don't want to rock the boat. I want to make pinball machines. You mentioned three pinball companies in the Chicagoland area. Yes. Obviously, there are smaller companies outside the Chicagoland area also building pinball machines. Yes. do you look at the competition do you play their games do you uh what do you think of them do you think that or they should have done this or they should have improved that this way or how do you look at those games well coming back from the texas pinball festival i definitely enjoyed playing uh ultraman but it took me two games to get to the upper level but it was fun and um interesting i I don't have, you know, I have no idea what it sounds like. It was just so loud there. I'm wearing hearing aids and amplifying this din, D-I-N. You know that word, right? Okay, so, you know, it's just, that's what it sounds like while I'm playing a pinball machine. Anyway, I enjoyed that game. I enjoyed Aliens. Pretty nice. The only thing I think is strange about it is you can have the dark one where you can't see the ball, but if you pay a little more, you can see the ball.
    47:28
    You know, that's interesting. but you know I managed to play it the dark one and the lit one and it's a decent game no doubt I like their video footage and you know it's interesting that's it they are competition but I don't know if they're building as many games a day as we are or Stern is or even American I don't know I suppose he's rounded up yeah I think so thank you very much indeed Steve I think that was great It was great to talk to you guys I had a good time I look forward to doing it in the future And there you have it ladies and gentlemen Steve Ritchie Legendary pinball designer Fantastic thank you Steve for taking the time out To speak to us At long last I'm glad we Had that perspective of time From his experience of working at JGP And Obviously an awful lot of excitement In the game That he's working on at the moment and the other games he will be developing into the future. Right, yeah. And I'm really happy to hear that he is currently in a very good spot and very happy at the best place that he worked so far. So good for him. Absolutely. So thanks again, Steve. And we hope you enjoyed this special bonus podcast, our interview with Steve. And we will be back, as usual, at the beginning of next month with our regular Pinball Industry News Pincast. Right, which is a recap of the Pinball News of the previous month, which would be, in this case, April. And while we're at it, let me also remind you that both Martin and I have our respective websites. For Martin, that is pinballnews.com, where you find the latest pinball news, as the title might suggest. and as editor of Pinball Magazine I'd like you to visit pinball-magazine.com and also sign up for your very informative monthly newsletter which is completely free and usually goes out after we recorded our podcast and includes a link to our pincast I should say and well if you'd be interested in receiving that free on a monthly basis, no spam or whatsoever, just one email a month with the recap of the pinball industry news of the previous month, then go to pinball-magazine.com. And as I say, we'll be back at the beginning of May to look back on the month of April, and there'll be a lot of exciting news, I think, coming up this month. So don't miss that. and thank you again for listening to this bonus podcast with our interview with Steve. So until we speak again, this is Martin and I'll wish you a very happy rest of the month. And this is Jonathan and I wish you the same.