All right, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night for some of you. Uh, we are back. Uh, it's been hectic. Uh, thank you again for coming to sit and hang and chill. Uh we have Kevin Manet or you know we had this conversation before about people getting people's last names wrong. Kevin uh Buffalo Pinball. How are you buddy? Good man. Nice nice to that we can Good man. Nice nice to that we can finally make this happen. Happy to be here. It's been a challenge. So there's been It's been a challenge. So there's been uh I had a power outage last week. Uh I can't remember what happened the one time before that. You were you were got sick or something. You were you were got sick or something. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. The the universe has Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. The the universe has been keeping us apart. Um, so for the record, would you like to tell everyone how to pronounce your last name? It's Manny. Like, uh, Manny Ramirez, if It's Manny. Like, uh, Manny Ramirez, if you're a baseball fan, just think of Manny Ramirez, the Red Sox player, and it's just like that. I'm a Yankees fan, so it's sacrilege. I'm a Yankees fan, so it's sacrilege. But, you know, that's how you can remember it. [laughter] Uh so for those that may not know on the channel because even though um Gonzo's Flipperama is essentially a UK based channel and I'm in Australia um you know we may have viewers that don't know anything about what you do and where you're from and your background. So we like to do chinwags on the channel and ultimately you know get to know more about your background and so do the viewers. Uh, so Buffalo Pinball is uh your channel and you were also doing um Bro, you even talk pinball uh which is a fantastic um um chinwag as well I guess uh covering you know news and releases and controversy and all that type of stuff. Uh how's things going anyway? Yeah, things are good. So yeah, I don't Yeah, things are good. So yeah, I don't know if you want to go back and kind of start at the beginning. So, growing up, I used to go to arcades and, you know, the pinball and video games were always kind of hand in hand. You'll see like behind me in my game room, I have I have stand up arcade machines as well as pinball machines. So, like I'm all about all sorts of gaming. And uh yeah, I always kind of dreamed that I would own a pinball machine one day. And I was like, you know, I got my first apartment and I didn't buy a pinball machine, but I got a arcade cabinet. It was a Mortal Kombat 2 that I I had a one-bedroom apartment. and I stuck it in the kitchen of my apartment and that's kind of where it all began. And uh yeah, I got sick of moving that thing from an apartment to apartment, eventually sold it. Uh bought a couple more games here and there. And then uh I got um a Roller Games was my first pinball machine. Paid $900 for it from uh and that was Paid $900 for it from uh and that was like 2012 or so. And then, you know, got bit hard by the And then, you know, got bit hard by the hobby as most people do. [laughter] It's like, well, I have one. Everybody has the same story. Like I have one pinball machine. I I must have two. And now I built a whole like edition on my house and it's got pinball machines in it. And it it's crazy. And we started our podcast and we run a local league and tournaments and you know Twitch streamers and podcasters and YouTube. Uh I always joke that there there must be something wrong with us because it's like we love this thing so much. Let's just like give ourselves more work to do all the time. [laughter] Yep. what I ended up doing with my my Yep. what I ended up doing with my my current uh news, which I'm sure we'll get to later. We It's a very uh addictive hobby in the We It's a very uh addictive hobby in the sense that like Yeah, you're right. You buy one game, then you want the rest, and it's all the flashing lights. It's like a poke machine, right? Like it's how they get you with the flashing lights and everything. And uh you know, it's uh definitely the idea of we've all got jobs, full-time jobs. Some of us are lucky to work in pinball. uh not us but you know or you kind of we'll get on to that in a second but uh you know we we end up loving this so much that uh you might do you know 10 hours at work and then you got to spend two hours recording content and then two hours editing. Uh this is why I like to try and do everything off the cuff so there's no editing. Um yeah for my heart this is why I was like yeah for my heart this is why I was like we're going to do this podcast live. We're just gonna let it go as it is and then you know let it fly because editing takes so long. Yeah. If you say anything controversial Yeah. If you say anything controversial whatever. Yeah, [laughter] exactly. exactly. So, Buffalo Pinball, right? Yeah. The So, Buffalo Pinball, right? Yeah. The name, what's that all about? Yeah. So, simply enough, we're in Yeah. So, simply enough, we're in Buffalo, New York. So, that's that's where the name comes from. Uh not especially creative, but you know, Buffaloians are proud of of of where we are. And, you know, we're kind of like the underdog like usually with sporting events and things like that. And, you know, we have a reputation for, you know, having cold weather. Everybody knows us for cold weather. And of course, today's like the first day it started snowing for the season, but uh you know, it's like we're we're proud of where we are. So, name it Buffalo Pinball. And uh yeah, so that started Nick and I met back in like 2011 2012 when he bought a AC/DC pinball machine and we were both in a Facebook group together and he just put the call out there saying, "Hey, I'm I'm buying a new pinball machine. Does anybody want to come over and and unbox it?" And I was like, "Wait, you could buy a brand new pinball machine and have it delivered to your house and like play a game that nobody's ever played before? I'm absolutely going over there to do that." So that's where I met Nick. I also met uh Dave Fix was there that night from American Pinball for well formerly of American Pinball. Um so that's how we kind of all got to know each other at first and then yeah, we were both way into it. and then yeah, we were both way into it. I bought some games and at the time I [snorts] had this really awful garage that so my my house doesn't have a basement and a lot of uh houses around here have basements that people put their games in. Mine has my house is like 100 years old. So it only has like a a it's a little bit bigger than a crawl space, but it's not usable for anything. Um so I put my games in my old garage and it was awful. And so I ended up getting nicer games and I was like I'm just going to put them at Nick's house. I go over there to play it at his house. It was it was crazy. Um, and then we were like we started connecting with other people in the area and we started going to events like Pinberg and Papa and we're like saw what they were doing down in Pittsburgh and we're like this is really awesome. We should try to kind of replicate that here in Buffalo. And so we started the Buffalo Pinball League in 2013 [snorts] where you know for eight months out of the year we go to a different person's house once a month and we play a bunch of games and hang out and it's super casual and fun and we've been running that ever since. So that's probably one of the most fun things I I enjoy in pinball the most is our our monthly league. And then yeah, it continued to snowball from there. So, we were like, you know, we saw, you know, like Papa was streaming and a few others and we were like, "What do you think about trying this?" I was like, "Okay, how do we do that?" Let's pinball Joe. We reached out to him and we were like, "What are you using for for streaming?" And he's like, "I got these these uh microphone stands and put some cameras on it and that's how we're doing it." We kind of all figured it out together. Uh so, we started doing that a couple years later. Ended up becoming Twitch partners, which was crazy. Um, which is cool because that gave us, you know, opportunities like get on the front page of Twitch and really bring in pinball to a lot more people and like kind of let you reach out beyond the like core of who really is into pinball which is always always our goal like to grow the hobby because we know how awesome this is and we want to just like share with as many people as we can and that's the biggest thing like even and that's the biggest thing like even in Perth. So I live in Perth which is one of the most isolated cities in the world in that's already so niche kind of like the same you know 30 to 40 heads that always come to the the catchups and the leagues. Um and we've slowly tried to grow it and grow it by getting more women involved, more kids involved. Um, and by doing that, we've kind of kind of what you guys have done with Buffalo, but we, you know, starting trying to get a little bit of a collective together where, you know, that these things take up a lot of space, right? So, you know, we we thought, well, let's get a warehouse. We can all move our games into there. Um, and there's two or three of us that are going to do that and then basically be able to run leagues and stuff from there. Keep one or two games at home. Um, but you know, I think it's really important and yeah, I can fully relate to. Um, what's uh do you guys go to someone's house every month you said and you rotate it? So, how many like different different venues do you or how many different venues do you or how many different different homes you have on the card like is four all the time or is it more? like is four all the time or is it more? No, we have a different um host every No, we have a different um host every month. We are lucky enough to have that many people locally that have collection. So we require at least six machines. Um and most people have way more than that. most people have way more than that. [laughter] So uh it's pretty wild. And is it um your leagues are they IFPA And is it um your leagues are they IFPA points? They are. Yeah. And so yeah, we uh They are. Yeah. And so yeah, we uh collectively like you the points accumulate over over the course of the league and then we submit it at the end of the season and then uh everybody kind of gets ranked which is cool. And is it a um because I know there's a And is it a um because I know there's a bit of a gray area with like anything. I don't do many tournaments so correct me if I'm wrong but in relation to being able to host uh uh a league or or a tournament of any sort and having to make it public and obviously you're at people's homes, right? So, not everyone would want everyone to know where they live. How do you balance that? Yeah. So, Nick really manages a lot of Yeah. So, Nick really manages a lot of the IFBA stuff, so I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know if you're hosting a tournament, it has to be listed publicly somewhere. If you want listed publicly somewhere. If you want it to be um qualified to qualify for points. I um qualified to qualify for points. I don't know if that's the same with leagues or like how that really works. Unfortunately, I don't know the ins and outs of that one. No, no, I know. Yeah, it's a bit of a No, no, I know. Yeah, it's a bit of a like it's a catch 22 cuz sometimes I think uh if it wasn't, you know, there'd be more people that had like private collections that would probably have their own kind of tournaments and leagues but may not want to, you know, publicize or invite random people over. Um so, but yeah. Um yeah, it's kind of weird because you got yeah, it's kind of weird because you got rooms full of like really expensive stuff and like random people showing up to your house and it's like, yeah, I want to grow a pinball, but also like it's still my house, right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Um and Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Um and that Yeah. Look, and that's how I've always looked at it as well. And it's kind of, you know, as much as you growing it, you know, as much as you growing it, you're like, h there's that it's a fine line. It's a fine line. But um so one of the things uh obviously that you've done for quite a while now is support uh Multimmorphic and Jerry uh with showing off their new games for many years now. When did you start doing that? Oh man, we So this actually went back so we were probably about two years into streaming at that point. So around 2017 or so and I had gone to uh Replay FX which is and I had gone to uh Replay FX which is where the Pinberg tournament was hosting hosted and Jerry was there giving a presentation on the P3 talking about you know all the things that it could do and you know the ball tracking screen and the interchangeable modules and all this. I was like that sounds really cool and they had one there to to play. So, I I went over and I checked it out and I was like, man, this it just kind of like stuck with me about, you know, like I mentioned earlier, I was I've always been into video games and pinball. And the interchangeability of it reminded me of like having a home video game console, right? Like growing up, I had a Nintendo, so I would just swap games. And I was like, that makes a lot of sense for pinball, too, because people run out of room. They're very expensive. Maybe there's something here. So, I Maybe there's something here. So, I reached out to him uh you know the following year or so and I was like, "Hey, would you be interested in working together? We've got we at that point we were running uh Stern Pro Circuit Events." So, we had a really big Stern Pro Circuit event coming up. Hundreds of people coming from around, you know, all over the place to play in it. Um and I was like, we can stream it. Um and I was like, we can stream it. That was at the time they had um Cosmic Cart Racing coming out. I was like, we can we can do the first stream of Cosmic Cart Racing. Jerry actually came out and flew to my house and we did a launch stream of it for my plays. We did a podcast and uh we had that and Lexi Lightseed. Lexi was the one we ended up using in the tournament and he was like, "Hey, keep the game for a while. Stream it and then send it back to us or or sell it when you're done with it on our behalf." And you know, that way we get some content out of it. you get to you get to play the game, you know, get to stream some stuff. And then that's what I ended up doing. And what was funny was like that was the agreement and I put that in, you know, I ended up selling it on Pinside and people just thought I didn't like the game because I sold it. I was like, "No, it was like a temporary thing." And we sold it on. So it was good, but it, you know, people don't pay that close of attention. They're like, "Oh, he Why did he must not have liked it? He he sold it." I was like, "No, I absolutely loved it, but it's like I couldn't keep it at that point. I didn't have the money into the hobby that I did that I do now sadly. So what we we continued on and in 2020 when Heist came out I was like man this looks really good. We were all home not doing anything and I was like I don't know when I'm ever going to be able to play this game. I'm just going to buy it. So I went out and I was like I bought myself a P3. I got Heist. Heist is amazing. And it really showed me what the potential of the platform was, especially with that crazy train that comes down because they crazy train that comes down because they they've heard over the years, oh, there's not enough stuff in the lower play field. Even though I will counter that argument with like you might not realize all of the things you might not realize all of the things that are happening down there, but because of the interactive screen, they can do so much. You can have moving targets anywhere on that lower screen that changes where you're shooting at any time. Um, but they they recognize that, you Um, but they they recognize that, you know, okay, people want physical stuff down lower. So they made that crane come way down. Super dangerous shots all the time. U so it was a great mix of of the the two worlds. Plus that just I love the original theme, the story building, the big final heist is really awesome. It's like one of my favorite pinball modes in you know wizard modes in all of Pinball, which I was talking to Stephen about it, Steven Silver from Multimmorphic, and he's like, "Wait till you see the the final wizard mode in Portal because it's even better." He's like, "Even better pinball storytelling." So I was like, "Okay, all right." Right. So, I got in, got Heist, and then I I was all in. I was getting all the modules, all the uh the add-on games, and anytime something new came out, you know, Jerry was like, "You want to stream it?" I was like, "Yes." And then he started inviting me down to the uh factory in Round Rock, Texas, which is just north of Austin, Texas, kind of like right in the middle of the state. And And that was for the Weird Al reveal. And that game was like I still remember stepping up to that game and going what is going on? There is so much on that game and like the crazy shots and they just packed it full of stuff and I was like these guys are crazy and yeah it's ever I feel like ever since he just like been this great ramp up in quality and innovation and cool stuff to do on your games. It's I always think about it like Stern. Yeah, they make cool games, but you can play them anywhere, right? Like I I have a I have a Tron and a God Godzilla. I can literally play probably anywhere. [laughter] But you know, it's like where can you play the P3? And it's like where can you really dig into these games? Like when most of my other games, so I only have I have two Modern Sterns and I have Tron and everything else is like I've got a Spooky, I have a JJP, I have a Pinball Brothers, I've got some Williams games, and I've got my P3 because like the Sterns you can play anywhere. like I like to dig into the stuff that is unique and different and the P3 offers that and and you can do so much in the one cabinet which I love. It it's been a hell of a journey. I mean it's been a hell of a journey. I mean first thing I want to say is that Jerry is uh he's a gentleman. Uh he's extremely uh generous and open-minded and friendly and uh extremely passionate. Uh, and I think the the biggest issue with the community is that there's that idea that P3 isn't real pinball. And uh, I had specific people in Perth and Australia that I wanted to force them to play the game because they are extremely traditional and it's always that kind of demographic of um, players over 60 years old that are really protective of pinball, right? and um you know have this idea that it just cuz it's a screen it's a virtual pinball um and it was awesome to get them to play it and we had Final Resistance in there which is uh I mean I've only played Final Resistance and Princess Bride so uh I love anything Scott Denise so I'm going to be biased but uh getting them to play Final Resistance uh getting them to play Final Resistance and watching them play and realizing that this is not really much different to a pinball machine at all, if at all. Um, and then I recorded their reaction, right? And I and I had sent those to Jerry actually, and I'm going to send them to you because obviously you're more than welcome to use them in your new role, which we'll talk about in a sec. Um, and then getting them to honestly admit the fact that it's actually pretty cool, right? And the fact that yes, there's a lot going on at the back. In most games, there's like, you know, some even modern games have that are not P3 have a lot just happening at the back. Um, I'll use Venom as an example. I just had a Venom. Exactly. New Star I just had a Venom. Exactly. New Star Wars. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, even like I love my Yeah. So, you know, even like I love my Sopranos pinball, but that's 90% at the back, you know, and and whatnot. But, um, so the idea of having one cabinet um, so the idea of having one cabinet that is interchangeable, that I can play lots of different games on that, uh, is obviously going to save up space and, uh, um, and money obviously more than anything. uh was is a great idea and I think the whole uh video game analogy is something I use. I don't really like to use it with the older pinball kind of guys because they don't play video games and as soon as I mention the word video games they go see. Yeah. They're like it's not real Yeah. They're like it's not real pinball. You just said the word video game. So I just exactly So I just exactly Yeah. It's just pinball evolved right Yeah. It's just pinball evolved right and at the end of the day it's all about creating experience and it's all about creating experience and that's what P3 does. They create an experience. Uh and there's much more you could do with that screen. I mean, one of the things I've seen and I like is even like there's a mode in wheel hour weird hour where there's like bugs on the screen and the ball um or viruses and the ball has to squash them by rolling over them, right? Your in lanes have your rollover switches and and it interacts no different. Um and the fact that to be honest like if you're not techsavvy and don't really want to repair stuff, it's very plugandplay. the fact that the drawers can be pulled out for the flippers and you can just slide in a new mechanism. Um the fact that everything everything is, you know, pretty straightforward. Uh and to be very honest, Jerry's probably got one of the best support tech teams in the industry. They respond within like easily within 24 hours. Uh I always laugh at these negative nancies that write, "Oh, you know, there was a P3 on site and I've told them and nobody's got back to me." And it's like, you know, chill. They are also a small company. You know, I think giving someone 24 to 48 hours is is good. You shouldn't expect a response within like 8 hours. Um but you know, we had one for a very long time. We took it to the Melbourne Expo. It lasted all expo. We had one slight issue um with the flipper and I think it was because we were running um the upper flippers with the lower flippers off one button. Um, purely because I find expos when you can't sit there and literally educate everyone that walks up to the machine, they don't realize there's upper flippers cuz they're kind of tucked away and hidden. Um, so um, so we changed that and it it didn't miss a beat. Um, so I'm a huge ambassador for the for the the system. We were hoping to have a portal uh, but obviously they weren't manufactured till a little bit later than expected. Um because I really think as you said, every game that has come out from P3 has always gotten better and better and better. Uh Princess Bride was probably one that it didn't grab everyone because the theme is, you know, romantic and it's a little bit kind of uh slow with the music, but that's how the movie was, right? But what it did do, and I can tell you, as soon as the moms and the kids saw it, they would run over to it, right? Um, and the Princess Bride Topper is really, you know, you can see it from a mile away. So, uh, it is very, uh, very good at bringing new people into the hobby, uh, that theme. And it's not for everyone, and that's the joys of pinball, right? Um, but so, one of the things that I really, really like is that module system, especially once you've done it once or twice, you can change it out with under a minute. All right. Mhm. All right. Mhm. I have a video of me doing it in like 45 I have a video of me doing it in like 45 seconds on YouTube or something. It was like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't What I learned is Yeah. Yeah. Just don't What I learned is don't do it wearing a hoodie, especially if the hoodie is too big for you because the fabric you get caught the fabric between the rail and the game. And I'm like bloody hoodie. Um yeah, it's really it's really fast to to get it done. And you know, three plugs, you're in, you're out. Um and uh look is just something so unique and and it the flippers feel you know I I asked multiple people does the flippers feel any different and they said like you can tell they feel different from no different to how a stern flipper feels different from a spooky flipper that feels different to a JJP flipper that then feels different to a P3. Not in a sense that they don't feel like pinball flippers, right? they just feel different like every other manufacturers's flippers feel different. Um, so, you know, I think we just need to get it in front of more people. And you know, if Jerry could, he should send one out to like schools and uh every bloody expo possible or every, you know, festival because I think the more people that play it, the more uh you know, like not referral. What am I looking? What's the word I'm looking for? Word of mouth is always the best referral, right? So, you know, like, oh, I paid I played the P3. You have to play it, right? that's what you want because that's how you get, you know, people in front of it. There is that kind of argument that the There is that kind of argument that the P3 system is not really built for arcades and I'll probably agree with that to a sense because I think you really want to hear it and experience it to its best potential. Um, I still think it's important to get them to arcades because people, you know, if they're locked up in your home, how are you going to get these in front of people, right? So, um, but there's that kind of that balance of trying to how do we how do we how do we get it to more people? How do we get more people experiencing it? How do we get more people being more open-minded to it? And I really hope now with this new role uh that obviously you're now turning into a Multimorphic P3 ambassador as such, dedicating all your kind of social media and marketing time to Multimorphic as their marketing guru. Um, how did that all come about? Yeah. So, obviously, you know, well, you had a lot of topics that I want to touch on and I' I've was making notes. I was like, I got I've got like I've been answering these questions and thinking about them for years. So, uh we'll we'll come back to a lot of that. But the rel the So, for those who hadn't heard, I am officially signed on with Multimmorphic to help them with their communications and social media marketing and that came I think that was just a and that came I think that was just a like organic development of our relationship over the years, right? Uh, you mentioned how Jerry's so good. He's such a good dude and he's great at this time and I found, you know, the more I went down to Austin to hang out with those guys, I was like, this is these are like people like me. These are people I appreciate, respect, very smart, very knowledgeable, u professional, all that. So like these are totally people I can hang out with, have a good time, work together with and uh they they're really passionate about what they do. Um so over the years we built up a relationship. When Portal specifically came out, I was like so uh years ago he was like that he asked certain people to like rate themes and I was like if you guys do Portal you could absolutely do Portal. That would be amazing, especially on the P3 where you can have instantly transport balls all over the playfield with that trough. And uh yes, to my surprise, they ended up doing it. And the more I thought about it after I went down to do the reveal earlier this year, I was like, man, there's so much they could do with this because my the video game side of my brain as a video game license was just like, more people need to know about this. People love Portal. And then the the PR communications side of me was like, I'm just gonna put together a communications plan for this. And I was like, here's some things you should do with this. And he's like, this is really awesome. Thank you. And uh so he was like, I'm going to roll this out, you know, once we get up production up and rolling. So, you know, production started ramping up. And I was like, how's that going? And I know he's got like a million things going on. I said, if you need help executing any of this stuff, let me know. And I was like, you know, now that my son's off at college, I have extra time. And of course, like we do with pinball. I was like, why not fill it with more pinball stuff? And I was like, [laughter] uh, you want you want to talk about it? And he said, yeah. And we talked about it. We came to an agreement and, uh, we're off and rolling. It's been a couple weeks here. And, uh, yeah, I I've, uh, it's it's been super fulfilling already from a create from a creative outlet standpoint for me. So, I've like a creative side and a and a kind of like a more more tech side, too. And the creative side of me just had all this stuff that had to come out. I was like, I have so many ideas. I just started writing them all down, putting together a social media content calendar. And, you know, so we've been doing stuff like giveaways and meme, pinball memes, and I started doing some reels. And there the first one I did was me kind of showing new pinball day with a P3 where you know typically you have a machine and it's new pinball day. You have to have a buddy come over and help you get into the basement and you have to get out your lift card and haul it in and set you know jack up the lift card and put the legs on all that. Now with the P3 just UPS brings a box to your door. You bring it in, you throw it in in a minute into your machine and you're off and running. Right. So, I was like, that's a quick me quick uh reel we can make is point of view video. Me, it's new pinball day, but you have a P3. I I throw the card away, I bring the box in, that's it, right? And that did pretty well. So, I was like, okay, there's something there. And then another thing I saw was that, And then another thing I saw was that, you know, on streams, you don't it they don't really capture all of the cool stuff that happens in pinball, any pinball machine really. And I was like, there's so many cool mechanical things on this machine. Other manufacturers might take like one of the things that this machine does and call it the gimmick for the game and that's it. This thing is packed. So, I was like, I'm going to make a video. It's going to be like the seven coolest things that are on the Portal Pinball machine. Uh, and I showed like the faith plate. I showed the the threele mode jump, the teleporting companion cube, the kickback, uh the Reggie u little toy that's on the playfield, all that stuff. And I put it [clears throat] on Instagram and I was like I found myself watching it over and over. I was like, "Oh, this is fun." And I was like, "Okay, I just put this up." And you know, after the first day, I could see it starting to tick up as far as like followers and uh comments and likes and views. I was like, I think this is going somewhere. And I over the weekend, I've been keeping an eye on it. And this morning, it hit 100,000 views, which is by far the most best performing piece of content I've ever I've ever created, either professionally or uh, you know, in pinball, aside from maybe, you know, the front page Twitch stuff because that just like puts you in front of so many faces. Um, But yeah, it was just like it's like verification and validation of like I knew this could work. I'm glad it's working and now I got to keep it going because uh my goal is to like how to show how cool it is to own a P3 and all the super creative stuff. Everybody always says they want innovation in pinball and this is where it's really happening, right? This is the place where the innovation is. If you want an innovative game, get yourself a P3 because it's doing stuff you're not going to find in any other machine. Cool. And and especially with Portal, I Cool. And and especially with Portal, I mean, Portal's just got so much stuff in it that uh is uh it's definitely jam-packed. Definitely. Um one of the things I had said to Jerry that um was there's always a lot of people wondering like more about the company itself, right? And yeah, I think one of the greatest things recently was Kerry Hardy doing a tour of P3, right? Because he got to show the factory and people's comments were like, "Oh, wow. It's actually like a proper pinball company." Which that comment makes me laugh, [laughter] right? But but to be honest, that's the thing. It's a real pinball. that's the thing. It's a real pinball. Oh, it's a real pinball company, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, all it does is it does take, you know, you changed one person's opinion and that was worth it, right? Like, right. Totally. right. Totally. So, to do a full factory tour and the So, to do a full factory tour and the process of how the games are put together, um, and meeting the staff that are putting these games together and you'll see that they're just as invested as what Jerry is, you know, and that's all content. that is good content. Uh, and the more of that that um, you know, happens, the the better it is for for P3. And I would have loved to have done more, but obviously being in Australia was always hard. Um, and with Gonzo's channel, you know, we're a pretty big channel. I'd like to think um, I think now we're at like 8 8 and a half thousand subs. So, you know, to to try and get as much P3 you know, to to try and get as much P3 content out there um, uh, is is important. And um if I lived in America, I'd probably be doing a lot more of it just like you're going to be. Um yeah, for sure. yeah, for sure. But But yeah, the thing I found was that um [clears throat] you know, I have a P3 and obviously I've been streaming it for a long time, but through our pinball league, a lot of people got to play it. And the more people that got their hands on it and started playing it, they started buying them for themselves. So I we have like the biggest concentration of P3 owners around my house because people have come to my house and played it and seen how cool it is and bought it for themselves. So I have like five or six friends in my immediate local friends group who all own a P3 now. And it's it's it's just proof that you just need to get your hands on this thing and it's really cool and we just need more people to do that. I It's interesting also like I don't like to dwell on the negative, but the fact that people harp on about it's too expensive, right? And that if Jerry used the cabinet as a loss leader and got you get more people into the hobby. I don't see why people think it should be any cheaper than like a Stern or a JJP or anything like you know Stern have made games that are uh pretty empty and still charge the same money. JJP used to make games that were some will say a little bit empty. Uh so why is it okay for them and not for and again I think it's because there's this idea that it's not pinball. Um but you know in some situations I just disagree with this comment that oh if it was $3,000 cheaper maybe you get more people into one. Uh I tend to argue that if more people played it that they would treat it no different to whether they're choosing a Stern, a JJP, a Spooky, a Barrels of Fun. It's just another company, right? Yeah. All the pricing is right in that Yeah. All the pricing is right in that same wheelhouse now. For sure. Right. And I know like there's a few Right. And I know like there's a few people that go, "Oh, you know, um, put put portal on a normal whitewood and I'll buy one." And I like forget that it's a screen. Like just put a blindfold on and forget it's a screen, right? Because it it is literally no different. I I don't understand it. like because the feel of it is literally no different to you jumping from the ballet williams onto a Stern Sam system versus a Stern um white versus a Stern Spike 2 versus a JJP versus like they all feel different. And yes, some is because of an aging element. Some are older than others, sure. But I'm talking about the way they flip, right? Because let's face it, that's the biggest thing here that people are holding on to. It's the way it flips. I I don't see the screen is white wood. It's just literally a screen though, right? It's doing no different stuff. The only thing it doesn't have is the scoops, right? Or the vox like a white would have, right? right? But Jerry's also proving now with this But Jerry's also proving now with this extended stuff that they're doing with portal in front of that back section, right? that I don't see why he's not going to be able to do like um a scoop from an upper area or uh even modifying, you know, the side u uh standup targets that are in the P3 as standard. You could probably look at changing those out. Like I think there's heaps of potential in in the bolt-on stuff to kind of start pleasing all these negative nies. And I know you shouldn't have to, but you know, I think constructive criticism is a good thing. Uh, bashing isn't. That's another topic. But, um, there's definitely a lot more that people will starting to see, especially now with Portal with these extended bits, right? And it's not like I told you so, you like now they're doing it. It's a fact that like we're hearing the feedback, we understand, right? We'll try and give you as much more. And I'm sure Jerry, if he can and will, will probably go back to other games and maybe do an add-on, right? Like, why not? I don't see why. I know that's time and money and um you know, you got to do R&A and all that type of stuff. Um, but I I honestly think that a lot of this is how it flips and that they see those arms and that like it's not being they're not going through the white wood and there's coils under these coils are above. But it lit like I just I say to people just flip it like don't even play the just hit the flippers. Just literally just hit the flippers. You nailed it because it's it's the it's You nailed it because it's it's the it's what they see with their eyes. It's not what they are feeling with their fingers cuz there's something especially when I stream it, people get like hyperfocused on things people get like hyperfocused on things and I I feel like stuff like the the ball trail on certain games like uh they only did it on two. I think it's on Lexi and Heist and I never even noticed the ball trail when I'm playing it, but for some reason they're like, "Can you turn that off? I can't even I can't even watch this." And I'm like, "I don't even see it when I'm playing it." But they they do have an option to turn on and off and and they see those arms. They're like, "What what is even happening? What is But over the years, I've noticed those questions start to decline because they're people are becoming more familiar with the platform and they kind of know what it what it's about and hopefully more people are getting to to play it and try it. And now it's becoming more about the games and less about why is this different." Yeah. And look, I agree with that Yeah. And look, I agree with that comment. Like I like doing VR pinball with my MetaQuests. Uh, but the one thing I turn off straight away is the ball trail and the animations because I want it to feel as real as pinball. And as cool as the animations are of like Elvara in her hot tub and she's talking to you and flaunting her stuff at you, um, you know, it is like it's that element that as soon as you see it, it it takes you away from it being as close to pinball as possible. So, I can kind of relate to the ball trail thing um because it is a bit artificial, but at the same time, like this game's got 13 balls in it, like you know, so the balls are real. Yeah, that's the difference. Like a real Yeah, that's the difference. Like a real pinball making that ball trail, which makes it awesome. Like, how is this machine doing that? Right. It's not just a computer doing it, right? I can understand that negativity on the I can understand that negativity on the ball trail. Sure. Right. That's fine. But, you know, um, the fact that the rest of it is essentially like 80% pinball. Literally 80 80%. All right. Some people argue it's probably 90, but I I'll play devil's advocate here and say it's 80%. I say it's 100% pinball, but okay, I'll I say it's 100% pinball, but okay, I'll listen to your argument. Well, I'm referring [laughter] I'm Well, I'm referring [laughter] I'm referring to the um the materials, right? Like if we're referring to like the fact the only thing it doesn't have is the whitewood, right? right? Okay. It's I mean, it's still got a a Okay. It's I mean, it's still got a a surface that it's rolling on. this better because it's interactive and it changes and it's like I always think about like uh the Stranger Things, right? If you if the whole playfield could have If you if the whole playfield could have turned into the upside down instead of just like the the UV lights instead of just like the the UV lights coming on, like how cool would that be, right? So like being opening your your mind to like being opening your your mind to like these different experiences that are possible I think are are are awesome. I mean, the UV effect is cool, but it would be even cooler if you could like transform the whole machine, I think. Yeah. Look, and and there's just so much Yeah. Look, and and there's just so much you can do. Like I even said to Jerry, you know, um a fifth element on the P3 would be cool because there's that scene where she kind of jumps down and all of a sudden the camera is a bird's eye view looking down the city and you see all the cars hovering and she's falling. like that would look that would look awesome on a P3 screen because you can't do that on Whitewood, right? So, um and you know the the one complaint and this is the part that blows my mind the most, right? The one complaint from players is I don't care about the screen because I'm looking down, right? So, imagine having like all that information down. Everyone's like, "Oh, I wish that um you know uh more games had the screen on the playfield like Bond 60th or the original Alien had." And I'm like, "The P3 has a screen on like, do you know what I mean?" Like, it's do you know what I mean?" Like, it's just Yeah. Yeah. It's funny when people [clears throat] It's funny when people [clears throat] are very quick to go, there's too much information on that big screen. I don't look up while I'm playing. Okay. Well, then what about if I give you a big screen on the ground on your on your uh uh playfield? That way you can see what you're doing. Yeah. And it the cool thing, you know, I think about, you know, people complain about modern pinball and how complex the rule sets are. And the P3 is able to present you with different information that's relevant to the thing you're doing at that time. So, it's like it changes where the shots are. You need it changes where the shots are. You need to do something over here. It it's in real time. It kind of reconfigures and gives you more information relevant to the thing you're doing at that time and really simplifies things. And, you know, you I talked to a lot of And, you know, you I talked to a lot of pinball players. Like, I'm a sucker for upper playfields. Like I love upper playfields, I love lower play fields, right? With the P3, you can do both. Um, but the thing that I I really enjoy in pinball are video modes, right? Like I love the video mode in Getaway and in Dracula and like because it's that uh and you know Jaws's video mode. Like it's that kind of like it's giving me more than just flipping, right? And it's giving me more experience. And I mean a P3 can give you one hell of a video mode, you know? That that's the thing. So, um, there's elements that if you really strip it back that people want, ironically, the P3 has all of it. And that's what people don't that's what people don't realize, right? And I think, and I use this in staff training at work, I always say to people that if you greet someone with an open hand, you have the upper hand. And I think in this sense this works where if you just play the game, right? Just play it and just be a bit open-minded. You will see that it is no different from you deciding to buy the new Barrels of Fun game, the new Stern or a new JJP. It is just Yes, theme is important. I understand some people will buy based on theme and I think uh uh portal is one hell of a theme. Uh, Princess Bride's one is a great theme. Um, and people go, "Yeah, but nobody asked for Princess Bride or nobody asked for Labyrinth and nobody asked for June." That's not true, right? Because you're telling me in a hobby that I wish we could work out how I mean, I tried looking at the numbers on like Pinside, how many people are on there versus like how many people are in this hobby. Like if you if you take all that data, like you're telling me there's not a thousand people that aren't June fans out of all those people, right? So yeah, right? So yeah, I always I always like cringe at the I always I always like cringe at the comment of, "Oh, nobody asked for that theme." It's like, well, you're telling me out of like a 100,000 pinball players, I'll use that figure. I don't even know like what the figure was, but um you're telling me out of that 100,000 there's not a thousand June lovers. Yeah, [laughter]