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Bust your Bone

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·46m 0s·held·Oct 31, 2016
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Bone Busters disappointment; Doctor Who remaster rules details; Batman 66 pricing drama; new V-Pin cabs emerge.

Summary

Chris and Jared discuss the Halloween-themed Bone Busters pinball table in Pinball Arcade, criticizing its Gottlieb Premiere design, poor sound quality, and cluttered artwork. They preview upcoming Gottlieb EM tables (Jacks Open and Centigrade 37) and discuss an upcoming Doctor Who table remaster. They also cover Stern's Batman 66 pricing, application restrictions on the limited edition, and emerging virtual pinball cabinet competitors (Highway Group and Bespoke Arcades' Kingpin) with novel features like Kinect camera perspective shifting.

Key Claims

  • Bone Busters (Gottlieb Premiere) has terrible sound quality typical of Gottlieb Premiere machines, which all sound similar unlike distinctive Williams tables

    high confidence · Chris Rivas describing the Bone Busters theme and discussing Gottlieb vs Williams sound design philosophy with audio samples

  • Pinball Arcade's upcoming season features two Gottlieb EM tables: Jacks Open and Centigrade 37, with Centigrade being a 1977 solid-state table with a 9-drop-target bank

    high confidence · Chris and Jared discussing table hints provided in Pinball Arcade; confirmed by screenshot and playfield description analysis

  • Doctor Who table remake will feature TARDIS replacing Time Expander, Dalek heads as pop bumpers, and retrofitted rules using original ROM with new DMD and sound

    medium confidence · Chris describing newsletter screenshots showing TARDIS placement and rule details like angel targets, Time Lord's Fury, and Regeneration Mode

  • Batman 66 Limited Edition costs $15,000-$16,000 and requires an application to purchase; Super Limited version cannot be resold within a year without Stern buyback option

    high confidence · Chris discussing Stern's pricing tiers and application/resale restriction policy, comparing to Ferrari limited release models

  • Bespoke Arcades' Kingpin virtual pinball cabinet uses Xbox Kinect camera for perspective-shifting without VR goggles and supports button-based tilt rather than accelerometer tilt

    high confidence · Jared explaining Kingpin features and comparing to VP Cab's accelerometer-based tilt system

  • VP Cab is the only virtual pinball cabinet currently licensed for Zen pinball tables

    high confidence · Jared noting VP Cab's licensing advantage while discussing unlicensed Farsight/Future Pinball support in other cabinets

  • Alvin G machines are technically Gottlieb but represent a truer path of what original Gottlieb would have become compared to Premiere Gottlieb

    medium confidence · Chris discussing Alvin Gottlieb and co. as separate company from Premiere Gottlieb, speculating on business decision history

Notable Quotes

  • “it's a clown-vomit-hot mess of art”

    Chris Rivas @ ~8:30 — Visceral critique of Bone Busters playfield over-decoration, encapsulating core complaint about Gottlieb design philosophy

  • “All the Gottlieb tables sounded exactly the same with the music. All the Williams tables had a clear and distinct different sound going for them.”

    Chris Rivas @ ~12:00 — Key observation about fundamental design philosophy differences between manufacturers

  • “I don't think the price tag commands it... I think this is priced because I know it's a collector's table before anybody even gets their hand on it”

    Jared Morgan @ ~42:30 — Analysis of Batman 66 premium pricing as collector speculation play rather than feature-justified cost

  • “I really get stuffed. I'll give you a flip. I'm not leasing this. I'm purchasing it.”

    Jared Morgs (paraphrasing community reaction) @ ~44:00 — Community frustration with Stern's resale restrictions on Super Limited Batman 66 edition

  • “So good on you, Stern. It's going to be super limited and less people actually want to buy it. Then we're going to reconsider that as we need, because we're a business and we can do it with the help we like.”

    Chris Rivas @ ~43:30 — Sarcastic critique of Stern expanding Super Limited run from 30 to 80 units due to demand, undermining 'limited' positioning

  • “It's a 1977 table, so it's not technically an EM, I guess, because it'd be a solid state. No, this is EM. You can tell. Absolutely. It's a wedge head. It's got a counter.”

    Chris and Jared (exchange) @ ~28:30 — Technical distinction clarification about Centigrade 37's electromechanical classification despite 1977 date

  • “They could have done so much cool stuff with that thing... How unimaginative.”

    Chris Rivas @ ~9:15 — Critique of Bone Busters' unused potential in the bridge toy mechanic

  • “It worries me of what happened to our Bally and Williams tables... Are we in contract negotiations for those?”

Entities

Chris RivaspersonJared MorganpersonBone BustersgameDoctor WhogameBatman 66gamePinball Arcade (Farsight Studios)productJacks Opengame

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Bone Busters criticized for over-decorated, cluttered playfield artwork that blends together when viewed from top-down angle; bridge toy mechanically unimaginative despite having potential for complex interactions

    high · Chris: 'clown-vomit-hot mess of art'; 'everything blends together because Gottlieb never met a play field that they couldn't over-decorate'; bridge toy 'just dribbles' and 'doesn't do anything cool'

  • ?

    product_concern: Gottlieb Premiere machines have consistently poor sound quality; Bone Busters uses same sound system (ATB) as 1982 Victory with no platform optimization; contrasts sharply with Williams System 11 sound engineering

    high · Chris provides audio samples; 'same software system that was used on Victory two years earlier'; 'they haven't done anything to stretch that platform's sound capabilities at all'

  • ?

    product_concern: Bone Busters mobile version has poorly positioned upper flipper button that overlaps with regular flipper touch zones, causing frequent misfires; fixable via settings but poor default UX

    high · Chris: 'gigantic button to flip that upper flipper right where your thumb normally would have gone to the regular flippers'; Jared explains 10% increment adjustment feature solves issue

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Batman 66 Super Limited Edition pricing ($16,000) inflated by collector speculation; demand exceeded initial 30-unit cap, forcing expansion to 80 units; undermines 'limited' positioning

    high · Chris: 'they said, oh, it'll be super limited edition run of 30, and then the demand for it was so high, they said, oh, let's make that 80'; Jared: 'I think this is priced because I know it's a collector's table'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.138

0:00
This is the Blockade Podcast with your hosts, Chris and Jared. You are listening to the Blockade Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Rivas, aka Shut Your Trap. Joining me as always, halfway across the world, Jared Morgs. Hey, Chris. How's it going? It is going relatively well. This is Halloween weekend for everybody, so happy Halloween. The day has come and passed when you listen to this by a day or two, but there you go. Yes, it is. It's Hello's Eve for real here because it's the 30th today.
1:03
So we are preparing for the zombie onslaught of children. Do you dress up? I don't know. I don't normally dress up, but the kids. When was the last time you dressed up? Oh, geez.
1:17
In general, probably at the last fancy. No, for Halloween. For Halloween. I don't think I ever have.
1:25
No? No. Only as a kid, or did you even ignore them? No, we didn't really do it as a kid. When I was growing up as a kid, Halloween wasn't really even a thing in Australia. It's only recently that we've adopted it from the U.S. because lollies.
1:41
Yeah, with Halloween being such a fall-oriented thing, and obviously in Australia, your spring, I guess, is that what you'd be in right now, or no? Yeah, it's spring. It's sort of creepy in the summer. It's actually pretty hot. Right.
1:56

  • Bone Busters has an upper flipper button placement issue on mobile that overlaps with regular flipper touch zones, fixable via button position settings in 10% increments

    high confidence · Jared explaining Android user guide background and troubleshooting the placement issue Chris experienced

    • Chris Rivas @ ~36:00 — Concern about licensing gaps following Season 2's Gottlieb saturation, questioning Farsight's licensing strategy

  • “You've got to battle the Daleks by shooting them up into there... it's all about battling their enemies... So they're flipped around, basically”

    Jared Morgan @ ~51:00 — Description of Doctor Who remaster's core design philosophy: villain-focused retheme of hero-focused original table

  • “the thing that struck me a bit strange with the kingpin product is the fact that for the nudge and tilt functions there's actually buttons it doesn't actually allow you to naturally tilt the table”

    Jared Morgan @ ~65:00 — Critical observation about Kingpin's control scheme limitation vs. VP Cab's accelerometer-based authenticity

    • Centigrade 37
    game
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Bespoke Arcadescompany
    Kingpinproduct
    Highway Groupcompany
    VP Cabproduct
    Zen Pinballcompany
    Farsight Studioscompany
    Gottliebcompany
    Williams (company)company
    Marcel Gonzalezperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    BlahCade Pinball Podcastorganization
    Future Pinballproduct

    market_signal: Stern implementing unprecedented buyback/resale restrictions on Batman 66 Super Limited Edition to prevent flipping; requires application to purchase; community backlash on flipping model

    high · Chris: 'Stern will actually have an option on buying it from you again if you sell it within... a year'; 'you can't flip it'; community sentiment: 'I really get stuffed'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: VP Cab holds exclusive license for Zen Pinball on virtual cabinets; competing products (Kingpin, Highway Group) lack Zen licensing but support Farsight, Future Pinball, and MAME titles

    high · Jared: 'VP Cab as being the only one so far that's licensed for Zen'; Kingpin and Highway Group shown supporting 'Farsight tables and Zen tables' but without confirmed licensing clarity

  • ?

    product_launch: Pinball Arcade pipeline: Bone Busters (Halloween 2024), Jack's Open and Centigrade 37 (next month), Doctor Who remaster (Holiday 2024); season focused on Gottlieb titles following prior Williams/Bally licensing gaps

    high · Chris: 'table hint' shows next month's two Gottlieb EMs; 'We are going to get probably another Doctor Who table in the next couple of months'; newsletter screenshots confirm Doctor Who redesign details

  • ?

    design_innovation: Kingpin virtual cabinet uses Xbox Kinect camera to dynamically shift playfield perspective as player moves, eliminating need for VR goggles while maintaining 3D depth perception

    high · Jared: 'incorporating an Xbox Kinect camera to it so that it will shift the perspective of the table as you move... You don't need to have goggles on'

  • ?

    product_concern: Kingpin cabinet uses button-based nudge/tilt controls rather than accelerometer-based motion detection; VP Cab's accelerometer approach considered more realistic and immersive

    high · Jared: 'for the nudge and tilt functions there's actually buttons it doesn't actually allow you to naturally tilt the table like the V-Pin cabs version did... It's a bit hokey, really'

  • ?

    content_signal: Batman 66 premium pricing and restrictions already extensively covered by other pinball podcasts; hosts acknowledge saturation of discussion while adding perspective on collector speculation

    high · Chris: 'If you listen to the other Pinball Podcasts, they've covered this ad nauseum'; reframes discussion around business model rather than repeating coverage

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Farsight facing licensing constraints on classic Williams/Bally titles; Season 2 experienced Gottlieb saturation (6 tables in row); current season returning to heavy Gottlieb focus raising concerns about licensing availability

    medium · Chris: 'what happened to our Bally and Williams tables... Are we in contract negotiations for those?'; 'I'm still fingers crossed, pull out a save, give me Roller Games'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Williams System 11 games show documented evolution of sound design across yearly releases with shared baseline/guitar representations that evolved yearly; Gottlieb Premiere machines lack this intentional variation, all sounding identical

    medium · Jared discussing Marcel Gonzalez soundtrack collection: 'you can actually see there's an evolution of sound across system 11 games'; Chris: 'All the Gottlieb tables sounded exactly the same with the music'

    • So obviously it doesn't quite jibe as well. No. It's interesting. I just found out that Japan only within the last couple of years has started doing Halloween. And as with all things Japanese, they're doing it in their own manner.
    2:15
    Of course. So from what I was reading, they already have a spooky time of year that takes place more, I guess, a couple months earlier. and there's two different types of ghosts. They have the scary ghost, which is what their whole festival is based around, I guess, and it's like the terrifying ghost of your nightmares kind of thing. But what they've done with Halloween is make it all about the cutesy ghosts. All right. Okay. And so it's interesting seeing these pictures of how they've kind of adopted the American idea of Halloween, but keeping it separate from their own,
    2:58
    although it's not Halloween, but their own version of what we tend to do here in America, which is blood and guts and terror. Yeah, I love watching the Americans dress up in their full-on, usually zombie, or I've had my head sort of half cut off looking costumes. Right. It looked awesome. Sometimes the guys here in Australia, I've seen some pretty creative adult costumes come forward too, where some dudes have come out with blood splatters all over them. It looks pretty good, I have to say. I actually let them have a lolly because I said, yeah, yeah, you deserve a lolly, mate. Go on. Take a lolly. So I've always wondered, I've always wondered, what do cosplayers do for Halloween?
    3:40
    That's a very good question. Because a cosplayer, well, yeah, but they've got to be, you've seen some of these cosplayer costumes, and they're incredible, just the detail.
    3:50
    But do they then go, well, that's what I take to conventions for Halloween. I've got to do something completely different. Or do they just go, well, I spent all this time on this costume. I'm going to wear it as many times as I possibly can. That's the approach I take. I go, oh, yeah, this is taking me hours and hours and hours. I'm going to get all the wear out of it I possibly can.
    4:12
    I don't believe, I'm not sure when the last time was that I dressed up I as an adult any of my Halloween costumes have usually been what can I toss together in about 5 to 10 minutes with minimal thought that's about the effort I put into it as well mate pretty much how I dressed it as a kid too it was my go to standby was oh I gotta go to something for Halloween okay let's see I'm putting on my baseball uniform and then I'm taking ace bandages wrapping up my head and my arm and now I'm the invisible baseball player or the mummy baseball player, either or it kind of would go either way you could rock it either way you'd take both answers they weren't terribly original I have it on my mind though because at work on Monday and I've only had to work on Halloween a handful of times but I've never been full time on a show as a day player you're not expected to dress up but sometimes on these shows depending on the show itself, they get into Halloween. And so we got sent a notice this weekend that there's going to be a costume contest. But as it's a Disney kids show, we have to, you know, with seven kids running around, we have to dress up. Can't be gory, has to be kid-friendly, and you have to be able to work in it.
    5:36
    Oh, yeah, okay. There's that thing. So no Caterpillar bay-loading costumes. from Aliens in that case. It would be hard to already come up with that. Yeah, it'd be very difficult to lay marks on the ground and carry equipment. So I've been trying to think, what can I throw on just quickly? And I'm thinking hair would be a good start. Yeah. Because, you know, you've got room to do whatever you like with the state of your hair, as do I. Exactly. I could go the full who the hell is that guy and shave my goatee and mustache, but I haven't been shaved in 18 years, 19 years, I think I've had this thing. You can do it. It wouldn't take you that long to bring it back up to its glory. It wouldn't take long to bring it back up, but on the other hand, I also don't really want to go there for one day.
    6:28
    Fair enough. Because I did it when I first started dating my wife. I did it within a couple of months of us starting to date. I shaved it off, and she went, yeah, grow that back. And that's the last one.
    6:42
    That's very rare that we would actually say grow a beard back. Normally they hate them. Yeah, I will drop at least 10 years of age if I shave mine.
    6:52
    That's generally what happens. That's why I always look young because I just don't. I can't do a beard.
    6:57
    My lineage doesn't allow me to grow a thick set beard, so it just looks scruffy and gross. So I just don't worry about it. And it's also ginger as well. What the hell? So it looks wrong. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. So speaking of Halloween, Bowmasters has come out for the Halloween table that Farsite does every year. And all I can say is this is what you people get for demanding a Halloween table every year. Yeah.
    7:30
    I've really had next to no play with it, though, Jared, because… Well, you're a lucky man. Why, thank you. both because of my work schedule but also my computer has decided that it no longer likes my video card it has crapped the bed on that and also one of my RAM memory sticks has gone kaput so I cannot run pinball arcade at the moment on my PC I did however the universe is trying to tell you something here Man, have I just had like months of PC issues, haven't I? Yeah, you really have. You need a Mac.
    8:13
    Then I wouldn't be able to play TPA, though. That's actually true. No, because he doesn't work on Mac. What the actual hell? It's stupid. Right? So I did look at the trial version of Bone Busters on my phone, and, yeah, I'm left scratching my head. it's a strange table every aspect of the table it's strange so we'll get this aspect out of the way it's a premiere or a Gottlieb premiere which everybody knows I loathe yeah and really there's nothing really nice to say about them they're cello depth games they usually have a terrible sound package which this one delivers on let's speak of that sound package let's get a little sample of the theme music here. Here we go.
    9:09
    Yep, sounds like a Gottlieb premiere to me. Yep, absolutely. That's just terrible. And that's admittedly through Chris's microphone from the tablet, from his phone, but really it doesn't actually sound that much difference when you're in game either. sorry now there's also the table itself when it goes through the flyby mode you can see it's got all sorts of toys or dimension to it and like I was worried about when you actually get into playing the game everything goes flat because you're at that top down view you need to be able to move your head side to side and get that because everything blends together because Gottlieb never met a play field that they couldn't over-decorate. Oh, no. Then, boy, have they delivered on this one. It is a clown-vomit-hot mess of art. Yeah. It is terrible. And the chair, or what they call the bridge, in the game occasionally, and apparently they call it different things in the instructions to what's actually in the voice calls in the game because let's leave the user guessing when they're trying to play this game.
    10:24
    That thing is just, I don't even know what's going on. I had to actually go into pro mode and explore the table to see exactly what was actually happening up the back there, like when you shot the ball in. And all it does is it just, you shoot the ball up the little entry ramp, it drops into this big gaping hole at the back, dribbles its way down to a saucer, and that's it. There's nothing special about it. It doesn't do anything cool. and then when it ejects the ball, it just dribbles out, dribbles out the left-hand side.
    10:55
    How unimaginative. They could have done so much cool stuff with that thing. Now, keep in mind... Put a saucer there. Yeah, this table was made in 1989.
    11:06
    And apart from the wonderfully terrible soundtrack, listen a little bit to some of these sound effects, if I can do this properly.
    11:15
    Okay, hold on. Here we go. Thank you Wow exciting isn it Yeah, that's 10 seconds of my life and we're back right now. It's this amalgamation of modern ideas with having speech, but then having the speech pulled off terribly, as well as having these secondary sounds when you're hitting targets and stuff like that are straight out of 1982 which again we're looking at the same software system that was used on Victory two years earlier for this game and it's got to leave ATB I think and you can tell they haven't done anything to stretch that platform's sound capabilities at all with this platform Whereas take a look at something like System 11, where they were trying to squeeze out every last little bit of performance and finesse that they could from that sound chip.
    12:32
    You just see the engineering behind it and the overall care when they implement a game like this. It's just an afterthought. It just feels like an afterthought. So, for instance, let's listen to a little bit of Earthshaker, if we can.
    12:50
    So there's an actual, I don't know, you can argue whether you like Gottlieb's music better or not, but here's the thing. All the Gottlieb tables sounded exactly the same with the music. All the Williams tables had a clear and distinct different sound going for them. That's actually interesting because I listened to this soundtrack collection by a guy called Marcel Gonzalez, and what he's done is he's taken the original sounds of all the System 11 games, a lot of them, and remastered them into like an actual sort of musical track soundtrack. and you can actually hear across each year how the soundscape of the games change like they'll find a new way to represent a baseline in the game so they'll use that across all the tables in the year and then they find a different way to represent guitars so they'll actually use they go that's really cool let's use that in all the games in this year so you can actually see there's an evolution of sound across system 11 games as you progress through it's really interesting to hear Now, my other complaint is just brief, and this one actually is Farsight's doing. On the mobile, okay, so there's an upper flipper on the right-hand side of the table that is activated by a separate flipper switch. Yes. And on the mobile edition, obviously your flippers are, it's a touchscreen zone, and it's right below the, right next to your kind of side-to-side with the flippers. well they put this gigantic button to flip that upper flipper right where your thumb normally would have gone to the regular flippers yep and I can't tell you just in the little five minutes that I played with it how many times I hit that button rather than hitting my actual flipper button so you know you can change the position of that in mobile yes you are there's a setting in the settings menu that allows you to change that in 10% increments across the and that's for all special button positions, so launch buttons and special buttons. It's basically that you move it 10% increments up and down the table. So you can customize that. Have a look in the settings menu per game, and you'll see the button position option. Well, that's good to know. I'll have to sample around and play with that. It's funny, you know, you're not the first person to have this problem. It was pretty much the impetus for me writing the Android user guide, because that was one of the things that people couldn't work out along with the cloud-saving stuff. So, yeah, you've just hit the same issue that everyone else has.
    15:20
    So, again, my only complaint with Farsight at the moment is choosing this table and that button, but I guess if I can move the button, that'll help. It's just choosing the table now. Yeah, and I know some people have been complaining about how the table actually plays in TPA, but since I haven't experienced it myself, I can't really comment and attest to it because I haven't witnessed it or felt it for myself. But I don't know. It's a Gottlieb premiere. God, I wish we would stop at those.
    15:53
    And what we had hoped initially was going to be the season of sports on Thimble Arcade has now quickly turned into the season of Gottlieb. It's Gottlieb Classics Collection. So we started off with Big Hurt, which was a more modern Gottlieb premiere with the DMD screen. And then we get Bonebusters Inc. here. And next month, according to the table hint, we're getting two Gottlieb EMs, for which I applaud Farsight. I will take a Gottlieb EM much, much more receptive to those than I would be ever of a Gottlieb premiere. The two tables, based off the table hint, looks like we are getting Jack's Open. Centigrade and Centigrade 37. Yes.
    16:41
    Which, by the looks of them, are two completely different styles of EM. Jack's Open, it's kind of a wide-open field with basically a bank of drop targets across the upper middle of the playfield. And it's all about hitting those in certain combinations or whatever. centigrade.
    17:01
    I was going to say, for those who haven't looked it up yet as they're watching the show, it's actually like the drop target bank is actually shielding the pop bumpers. It's just massive. What is it? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 drop target bank.
    17:16
    So it's going to be, you pretty much, that's what you're going to be going for, and then shoot around the back. If it was tuned to the way most EMs should be tuned, now granted, this is a 1977 table, so it's not technically an EM, I guess, because it'd be a solid state. No, this is EM. You can tell. Absolutely. It's a wedge head. It's got a counter. It's got manual counters in the back. It's an EM. Great. If it's tuned properly, you should never be able to reach those pop bumpers with your flipper.
    17:44
    Well, if it's tuned properly, you should just dribble up there, not rock it up there like it's possessed. Exactly. Pretty much you get the pop bumpers when you do your launch ball, and then that's the last time you see them. Yeah.
    17:56
    But Centigrade, on the other hand, is much more of a lane shooter. yes it is isn't it it's got lanes on the right hand side bank of drop targets it's much more about putting the ball down lanes and having it hit table switches you know what it reminds me of it reminds me a bit of the path of adventure or the path of the dead on Lord of the Rings and the fact that you have to pass the ball down the lanes you might have to switch between the lanes with a nudge here and there it's going to be interesting it's going to be very interesting so I'm all for the two pack but this does worry me so is this a situation where because obviously we're looking at getting Alvin G yep it's another technically it's another Godlieb it's made by the brother of it's a different company I mean yeah well I mean it truly is because it's true Godlieb versus the premier Godlieb which was premier bought the name with Gottlieb and then Alvin G was actually the same company as Gottlieb, I believe. I think it's like the brother of the original guy. Okay.
    19:07
    Alvin Gottlieb and co. So it's in my opinion, the Alvin G pens are more of a true path of what would have happened to Gottlieb had it not been sold off as opposed to what the sell-off version was where it became this pale imitation. I wonder what the business decision was behind that. I've never read anything about why they did that. Yeah, I don't know the history myself either.
    19:30
    Be interesting to see if someone does. Let us know if you find an article on it, if you're listening.
    19:36
    But what I was going to say is, it worries me of what happened to our Bally and Williams tables. Yeah, where'd they go? Are we in contract negotiations for those?
    19:49
    Because what happened at the end of what was it, season two? Where we all of a sudden had six tables in a row of golly? Yeah. Oh, those were bad days. What a miserable time that was, right? It was pretty terrible. Yeah, that was not a fun time.
    20:05
    So I don't know. I'm curious to see where they go with that, but if that's the season that we wind up having, I don't know. I'm still fingers crossed, pull out a save, give me roller games.
    20:14
    We are going to get probably another Doctor Who table in the next couple of months, which will be interesting. True. We should talk about that a bit more.
    20:23
    I don't know. Are we ready to talk about that? I've seen some screenshots that came out with the newsletter, but that's about all the info that I have. Yeah, I think we can have a very brief discussion about it because there's stuff in there that more relates to the rules, and it's interesting to see how they're sort of adapting the table layout because they really haven't changed much on the table layout. how they're changing the table layout and the rules based around the existing layout.
    20:57
    It gives you some clues, perhaps, about what's going to be in the table. You're able to gather all that from the three pictures?
    21:04
    In case you don't subscribe to the newsletter, basically, they posted three pics, one of which was where normally the Time Expander was. There was now a gaping hole and a TARDIS.
    21:17
    Yeah, that's all is. It looks really, really depopulated. I'm not sure what's going on there. This is a very early... I gotta believe this is a very early build, or not even build, but it's not fully populated or artwork hasn't been done yet. It's just kind of like, hey, this is an idea that we're having. TARDIS is going up here. Pop bumpers were Dalek heads. They look good, I've got to say. They look quite cool. The Dalek zone, because it's all about battling their enemies.
    21:47
    Right. I think you've got to battle the Daleks by shooting them up into there. The real card tells you a little bit more, which is the ball launch behaves exactly like the original table, where you select your villain instead of doctor. This is all about battling the villains, so they're flipped around, basically, which is interesting.
    22:09
    So you select your villain, and you go and target that area of the playfield to get more points, just like you do in the original game.
    22:16
    Then you've got the Time Lord's Fury. I'm just trying to bring you got Time Lord's Fury, you've got How to Earn a Special, an Extra Ball,
    22:26
    a Zygon Shot, Playfield Multipliers, which I'm pretty sure will be on the ramp like they are now, Regeneration Mode, and you've got the Doctor itself, so it's using the D-O-C-T-O-R target so that could be one or two locations it could be the repair targets or the escape targets in the game I'm thinking probably it's probably going to be the escape targets down the bottom of the table and then you hit the TARDIS to start multi and jackpot is three hits on the cyber boss So I have a feeling that it's still going to be a mini play field that raises up, and I reckon that the thing on the top has just basically replaced the two locks, and that's all it is. Right. Maybe there's a lock either side. yeah so it appears that they're going to try and keep the flow the same um in the the table but i think they're going to try and i guess switch the focus so it's interesting to see where they're going from a design perspective on it let's see right um how it goes as far as realization of the theme because there's like you got to go and shoot the angel targets um and you got to To regenerate yourself, you've got to shoot 10 loops, which is basically the hang-on ramp. Then you've got to complete Who, which is the Sonic Boom, to score 10 million. So it looks like they're really plugging into the ROM quite extensively. So they're still plugging into the reset of the ROM, but they're probably going to do completely new DMDs, sound, and everything to sort of match up to it. so retrofitting rules onto an old game very interesting I don't know technically how they will achieve that but it's going to be very interesting to see how it all washes out and I do really wonder if it's, I don't think they're going to make that an entire, the only solitary release for that month I reckon they will you think it will be? yep, I reckon it will be it'll be the only one out probably around Christmas I guess well if they did it that way I'm wondering if it becomes that we'd get 11 tables you might say for that season as opposed to yeah because I don't know that I think that's one of the reasons why they're well one of the many reasons why the Ghostbusters Haunted House redo never actually made itself its way into the pinball arcade because it wasn't a real machine Yeah, that's right. I don't know. The interesting thing here, to get special, it's a long march to that. You've got to shoot all the angel targets, which if you have a look at the screenshots in the newsletter, there were angel targets to the left and right of the time expander. What was the time expander? So I'm sure there's other ones playing around too. So you've got to shoot all the angel targets four separate times to time lock them for eternity and score a special. So that's going to be non-trivial.
    25:40
    So, yeah, I'd love to try and understand what targets they're tying into the existing ROM to do that. I'm trying to remember how you trigger a special now.
    25:52
    And I think it's, I think it might be loops, I think. So I don't know how they're going to trigger that. Anyhow, I think time will tell. Time will tell, absolutely. in other news there's all sorts of things that have been going on this week lots of pinball hey did you see the pictures of Batman 66 no I haven't actually been anywhere near real pinball sites this week so Stern released some pics some I should say the whole gallery like they tend to do right before the tables are released of the tables and it is as garish and loud as Batman should be. Now, from the pics I was having a very hard time telling if it was photoshopped pictures of the characters or if they were hand-drawn but very photorealistic.
    26:49
    Some of the images on the playful definitely are hand-drawn images but they basically have five villains across the center right above the flippers.
    26:59
    I don't know what the modes are or anything. I didn't do research beyond just looking at the pictures, but those are the ones that look kind of Photoshop-ish. But if there was ever a table where I didn't mind, it's this table, because Batman 66 very much had crappy graphics slapped on top of live action, and it works in a weird way. I kind of went, you know what, I don't mind what I'm seeing here.
    27:29
    They have the table come in three different versions, and I did have to laugh. So the regular version. The Pro is premium. The Pro is premium and costs that much. Yeah. 500 bucks. And then you have the limited edition, which runs you a cool 10 grand. Then you have the super limited, which is more than the cost of a reasonably priced car.
    27:56
    I think, what was it, 15? 16 grand. 16 grand? Like that, it's bonkers. Now, here's the thing. It's not even a choice for you because you have to submit an application, which, roll my eyes, you have to submit an application for Stern to even choose you to be able to purchase one. It reminds me of when Ferrari comes out with certain models of their vehicle that they're only going to produce 100 or 300 of, and everybody has to submit their resume of how much of a Ferrari collector they are and why they should own it, because otherwise it just goes to all these Saudi princes. that's what this reminded me of like really but the cool thing that I liked with the limited edition as opposed to the pro is the topper they put the two arches of the bubble roof of the car with a red siren in between the two so it looks like the Batmobile and I thought that was pretty cool hmm yeah I think they've got that the theming is it actually seems pretty good it does but I don't know I don't think the price tag commands it sure it's got the new amazing LCD in it whatever all the other ladyfacers have been doing that for a little while now and they're certainly not that price so honestly I think this is priced because I know it's a collector's table before anybody even gets their hand on it yeah I think that's probably it yeah and actually If you listen to the other Pinball Podcasts, they've covered this ad nauseum. And it's really, Stern will actually have an option on buying it from you again if you sell it within, I think it's a year or something like that of getting it. Like that super premium version. You can't just flip it. No, you can't flip it. They will actually restrict you from selling it somehow, which is like everyone's just going, I really get stuffed.
    29:53
    I'll give you a flip. I'll flip you. I'm not leasing this. I'm purchasing it. Yeah. It's ridiculous.
    30:03
    So, yeah. Well, but your question, is that for the super special edition, or is that for all three editions? That's for the super special edition. Okay, that makes sense. No, I understand that. Again, if you're going to go through an application process, they don't want you succeeding in the application and turning around and charging double what you just paid for it. I understand them keeping track of it that way.
    30:29
    Yeah, I don't know. I think the funny thing is that they said, oh, it'll be super limited edition run of 30, and then the demand for it was so high, they said, oh, let's make that 80.
    30:39
    So good on you, Stern. It's going to be super limited and less people actually want to buy it. Then we're going to reconsider that as we need, because we're a business and we can do it with the help we like. Now, another interesting thing that we've noticed is, you remember a few months back we talked about VP cabs. Yeah, and the success on Shark Tank. Yeah. Since then, we've been, well, one company has actually contacted us, and another company we were pointed in the direction of, there are two more virtual pinball cabinets coming out. And we'll have more on that soon to come, but one of them is called the Highway Group.
    31:22
    I believe that's correct, yes? Yeah, the Highway Group. They're based down here in New South Wales. And they've got their own little digital pinball platform, which is, well, pretty much, it's all the digital pinball released to date, so from Zen, Farsight, and all the MAME ones as well.
    31:41
    Well, basically, yeah, it's... And what was the name of the other company that's escaping me at the moment? the other one is bespoke arcades um and they've got their product kingpin which i'll give you a hot tip looks better realized than the other one um this just looks like more like a pinball machine so it is interesting because in the videos they always show them being able to play farsight tables and zen tables and of course future pinball uh and pinball vr uh vr VR Pinball. No. VR Pinball. Virtual Pinball. VR Pinball. Yeah.
    32:20
    They're all showing that, but I do go back to VPCab as being the only one so far that's licensed for Xen.
    32:27
    Yeah, that's right. So there's something to be said about that. Doing it right, essentially. But with the Kingpin Cab, it looks like they're incorporating an Xbox Kinect camera to it so that it will shift the perspective of the table as you move.
    32:46
    Yeah, that's right. So you don't need to have goggles on. It will actually slightly shift the perspective, which is going to be interesting. That, I think, is very interesting for the pinball cabinet market. Yeah, very, very interesting. You can really upgrade the living wazoo out of this thing, too. Like there's a 5,000 or 6,000 pound version, which is the entry-level model. Then you go up for, you can add on anything extra, like you can customize anything on it. You can do a custom finish, custom graphics, accessories. You can pretty much pimp it out the way you want. And then there's an option that you can get an RGB light show kit at the back to actually sort of give the play feel a bit more depth.
    33:32
    full vibration kit these motors look pretty beefy inside the the camera is actually eight extra points of vibration with a kicker and motor in there to really give more haptic feedback the thing that struck me a bit strange with the kingpin product is the fact that for the nudge and tilt functions there's actually buttons it doesn't actually allow you to naturally tilt the table like the V-Pin cabs version did. I think they actually had some sort of accelerometer in the game, didn't they, Chris, that allowed you to tilt? Yeah, this one's all button control, which is a bit hokey, really. I don't like that. Yeah. No, it's not realistic enough. But you can actually add in a real digital plunger and upgrade your sound system from a normal 2.1 speaker system to the no lows it a Bose system So that going to be interesting Yeah the 3D upgrade kit as well I should point out that that was one of the things that Stern upgraded with the super special version is their sound. And I'm curious to know if you put that up against VP Cab's sound system, which sounded like it would just make everything on your wall fall off. Yeah.
    34:46
    Yeah, it was pretty impressive. I think the people are saying, oh, how can you do virtual surround sound in a pinball machine? It's very easy. You do phase inversion, just like Bose do, with all their 2.1 speaker systems. It's just phase inversion. So it throws the sound to the back of you. It's easy.
    35:03
    So, yeah, that's really possible to do. And it sounds really good, too. The effect is very convincing.
    35:09
    But, yeah, the EX version of the Kingpin cabinet is 9,995 pounds sterling, including VAT. So isn't that good? That is a chunk of change. Yeah, it sure is. So it looks like with that one, though, you do get a Steam gift card. Oh, how generous. So they throw in a Steam gift card for that.
    35:35
    It's like, fuck, okay. That's their licensing right there. There you go. It's now being licensed, yeah. So anything on Steam, you can put on it.
    35:46
    So hopefully we'll have more news for you guys coming up. we're reaching out and trying to maybe have either or both of these companies talk to us and give us a, give us their pitch of, of why their cab is awesome.
    35:59
    Yeah, hopefully. Also want to point everybody's direction out. There is a, another virtual pinball game out there by a new company.
    36:12
    The game we were talking about, it's called black flaggers. Yeah. Steam only, right? It's Steam only at the moment. They were running a Kickstarter, and then they pulled the Kickstarter. The company is Formslingers. That's the name of the company. They're based in Berlin, and I believe it's two guys is what Sven told us. And from the looks of the video, again, the game is called Black Flaggers Pinball. It's pirate-themed and has really, really cool lighting on it. Yeah, it does. It looks so sharp. It's pretty good for a TV, too. It has a nice fade and a nice glow to it. And the thing that I really appreciated was when a flasher went off that was above the table, it illuminated that portion of the table and then faded back. So the light really looks wonderfully interactive.
    37:08
    In a lot of respects, it looks like a Zen table. This is one of those that it kind of is not contained inside of a cabinet. It's kind of floating out there on its own. But the actual gameplay by the video looks like it very much adheres to real pinball. It's not full of animated things that dance and pop up in the middle of the play field. You know, it's like a ramp is a ramp and a trail is a trail. It's not going to magically transport a ball somewhere.
    37:36
    So it looks like kind of a hybrid, you might say, of a pinball arcade and a zen table. taking the best of both worlds but creating more of a realistic environment you might say.
    37:50
    Realistic when there's a shark and a pirate head that moves around on the table. Anyway, it looks pretty good. Right now they're trying to get the Steam green light. Look at Black Flaggers Pinball. Give them the okay.
    38:04
    Hopefully, if they can get on Steam again, we'll be able to maybe talk to them if Sven's already been in contact with them working some magic and working behind the scenes to see if we can get a chat with them going on here. Yeah. There's another new release as well, which has come out on mobile. It's called Pin Out, and it's made by this company called Mediocre Games, and it's like they produce really, really good games, but I love the fact that they call themselves Mediocre. It's very good. So Pin Out is a pinball aesthetic puzzle game, is the best way I could describe it um you go through um it's linear so it's a little bit like an endless runner pinball but it's not really endless running you do have control of like where the ball goes um and it's not just you know like a normal endless runner where you go left or right or maybe jump if you got a really advanced one this one's you got to shoot the ramps and the idea is to build up your time um it's all time based so if you run out of time that's game over and the game itself is spread over six levels.
    39:11
    And if you buy the one-time in-app purchase to unlock the game, you get to continue from whatever you left off in the game.
    39:22
    So the idea is with the game is you... It looks a bit like Pinball as interpreted through Tron. It looks exactly like that. The graphics aesthetic in it is really, really good, and the soundtrack to it is second to none. Like it fits perfectly with the theme of the game. and it's all electronic soundtrack.
    39:43
    And it's, yeah, it's so, so well themed. If you want to see perfect execution for a soundtrack in a game, this would be a reference title for me.
    39:52
    It's unbelievable. So, yeah, the idea is to pick up little time dots that are on the play field to give you extra time and find the quickest and most efficient path to the very end. Now, the idea is that the thing you'll find is that when you go through the six stages to build up your time, there's an end game in mind. And that end game is to go into what they call basically extra time mode. And the idea with that mode is to get as far as possible through the same six levels again, but without the requirement to pick up any time extension cubes. So you're basically going, right, from the very start, I'm going to go all the way through the levels again and try and get as far as I possibly can to the end. And I believe the end of the game is you've got to get to the end of the levels again, and then you win the game. I haven't yet been able to do it. People playing with form factor pinball but turning it into, like you said, a puzzler.
    40:52
    Yeah, that's right. It's quite good. The puzzles, you do actually need to do some memory recall in the game about which things you need to shoot where. So there is a bit of retention required with this game. but the the it's very accessible as far as interface goes it's basically left and right on the screen and it's got different graphics modes to cater for the devices on my nexus 6p i can do balance mode but on my shield tablet i can go for extreme mode which looks amazing like this thing is pumping out pc quality graphics on my tablet it looks amazing um so yeah I would recommend you pick it up. It's free on mobile, and you can choose whether you want to unlock the IOP, so you've got nothing to lose.
    41:43
    So this is what I love about our little niche hobby, gaining traction again in the real world with real pinball, is that all of a sudden we're having all these gaming digital options happening, whether it be the Stern Pinball Arcade app, the pinball arcade itself, of Zen, games like what you're talking about, what Black Flaggers is doing, all the way to these virtual cabinet makers.
    42:12
    It's really kind of fun seeing it all kind of blooming in front of us, whereas when Pinball Arcade came out, what was that? Four years ago? Five years ago? Four years ago. That was pretty much it. And Zen. That was it. Yeah, that was it. There wasn't anything else.
    42:28
    I mean, obviously, virtual pinball had been, had been going on for a little while there, but it was so completely niche. Even your casual fan wouldn't have had any clue about it, let alone the difficulty of the install at that time. That's right. It was not easy at that thing running. You really had to be pretty dedicated to wanting to play pinball. Right. It's really kind of cool. I'm happy that it's kind of going. That's why you listen to the Blockade, isn't it? Because this is what we talk about. Digital pinball. And sometimes real pinball if there's crossover, which there often is. Yes, there often is. Hey, if you want to get a hold of us, why don't you do so? Contact us via email at blockade at gmail.com or hit us up on Twitter.
    43:16
    It's a winner. I'm not sure if I want to find out what that site is. Twitter at blockade or you can talk to myself at ShutYourTraps. Jared is at JaredMorgz. highlight one other thing so those of you that have listened to us for a while you know Sven comes on all the time his username is Xenia and Sven recently has been promoted on the Pimple Arcade forums up to moderator yes with the pay rise it comes along with that being nothing except for here's a few more headaches for you yeah that's right and he within two days already went and cleaned up the front page of the pimple arcade fans, a website went through, cleared out a whole bunch of sticky posts, um, basically went and took out the trash. You might say that's been, uh, we've been hoarding.
    44:15
    So if you've noticed a new look about the pimple arcade fans, uh, website, you can thank Sven for that. Uh, and I encourage you to do that. Um, He's putting in a lot of work that probably has just been built up over time where it's like, God, why don't they do it this way? Why don't they do it this way? And we kind of came to the conclusion, myself, Jared, and the other moderators on the thread, after Sven had put in enough time helping me with various projects on the side, I was like, hey, you know what? This guy actually kind of cares about this stuff, so why don't we give him some extra access?
    44:53
    Yep, and it's paying off, so that's really good. So if suddenly you find yourself being banned by Sven, it's not us. It's him. Yeah. It's him. He's doing it. Because we're just sitting here. All right, folks. Well, hey, thanks as always for listening to us blather on and on and on and on and on about all sorts of nonsense. We'll continue blathering on and on next week. So tune in then, too. Yeah. We'll be here. We will be. All right. Until then, catch you on the flip side. Bye-bye. wizardamusement.com the site to visit for custom pinball shooter runs easy to install, totally unique mention Blockade Podcast for 10% off your order wizardamusement.com sales, restoration, customization don't forget to leave a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast hosting service that Blockade is delivered to you can't improve unless you tell us how now stop listening play some pinball
    45:56
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