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Kaneda Live Audio Show - May 15 - "Are Stern LEs A Think of the Past?"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·40m 37s·analyzed·May 15, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.040

TL;DR

Kaneda questions Stern's LE model viability amid Transformers Optimus failure and shallow Pokémon code.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Stern's Limited Edition pricing model and recent game releases, particularly Transformers (LE) and Pokémon LE. Key revelation: Optimus Prime in Transformers does not transform due to reliability issues with ball impacts. Kaneda critiques Stern's engineering, the LE value proposition ($3,000 premium over Pro with minimal differentiation), and expresses concerns about Pokémon's shallow code implementation and lack of Pokédex features at launch. He speculates on upcoming releases including potential John Borg cornerstones and Keith Elwin's Fallout.

Key Claims

  • Optimus Prime in Transformers LE does not transform; George Gomez confirmed they couldn't get it to work reliably with ball traps and impacts.

    high confidence · George Gomez direct message to Kaneda during live show; Kaneda reads exact quote from Gomez about reliability issues.

  • Pokémon LE at launch has no Pokédex feature and lacks online Insider Connected integration for collecting/sharing Pokémon, which is fundamental to the IP experience.

    high confidence · Kaneda's direct observation after extended play of $13,000 LE unit; reinforced by concern about first code update showing 'a lot more is coming.'

  • Pokémon battles feel emotionally numb and lack dramatic presentation — no sense of injury, no clear win/loss state, missing battle mode atmosphere.

    high confidence · Kaneda's first-hand gameplay experience with LE unit; multiple detailed descriptions of mechanical disconnect.

  • Stern LE pricing model is broken: $3,000 premium over Pro with no exclusive modes, mechs, playfield artwork, or toppers justifies the cost differential.

    high confidence · Kaneda's sustained critique throughout episode, citing lack of value differentiation compared to historical LE positioning.

  • John Borg has a cornerstone game at Expo (likely Ozzy Osbourne/Black Sabbath based on designer rotation patterns).

    medium confidence · Kaneda states 'So this is a little bit of an exclusive for all of you guys' but notes uncertainty about exact IP; speculation on Borg rotation.

  • Transformers game has been in development for 25 months.

    medium confidence · Kaneda mentions '25 months' when discussing Optimus Prime failure after extended development.

  • Stern Spike 3 platform uses Raspberry Pi computing system, reducing costs compared to prior architecture.

    medium confidence · Kaneda's commentary on cost-cutting measures in Spike 3 vs. Spike 2 comparison.

  • GNR Collector's Edition recently sold for $10,899 at Flip N Out Pinball, providing market reference for LE depreciation.

Notable Quotes

  • “They couldn't get it to work. We had it transforming and it was less than reliable with ball traps and ball impacts seriously affecting it.”

    George Gomez (via Kaneda reading direct message) @ ~10:30 — Official confirmation from Stern CCO explaining Optimus Prime removal; pivotal design failure on marquee feature.

  • “It's a gut punch. It's a gut punch. Because I think that some of the feedback we were getting that Transformers is going to have the ultimate mechanism in any game ever was the transforming Optimus and they couldn't get it to work.”

    Kaneda @ ~12:00 — Articulates community disappointment at loss of core IP mechanic after long development cycle.

  • “I don't feel like I'm in a battle. It's like switches are being hit and you're hitting some lit shots and then you see the health bar. I'm not even sure if I'm winning or losing.”

    Kaneda (gameplay critique of Pokémon) @ ~22:15 — Detailed articulation of Pokémon's design disconnection despite $13K purchase; identifies emotional engagement failure.

  • “It feels like what we have is a Pro game. It's still missing something else that's wowed it just doesn't have anything else in it that really is wowing us.”

    Kaneda (on Pokémon LE) @ ~25:30 — LE unit delivering Pro-tier experience reinforces value proposition breakdown criticism.

  • “You can't go from a world where LEs were only $7,500 and $1,500 more than Premium to now being $13,000 and $3,000 more with more units out there and it just works.”

    Kaneda @ ~42:00 — Core argument about LE model viability: pricing escalation without corresponding scarcity or value.

  • “It's almost like the only thing they know how to do is make fewer games. And even then, they're not where they need to be.”

    Kaneda (on Stern marketing/LE strategy) @ ~38:30 — Criticism of Stern's lack of creative LE differentiation or value-preservation tactics.

  • “When Stern went over to Spike 3, the changes they made to the platform really did feel like they were making things cheaper. I can see when I look at the front of the cabinet and now there's two little black bolts where there used to not be.”

Entities

KanedapersonGeorge GomezpersonKeith ElwinpersonJohn BorgpersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Optimus Prime transformation mechanism in Transformers LE removed due to reliability issues with ball impacts and traps during development. George Gomez confirmed inability to engineer solution after 25 months of development.

    high · George Gomez direct message to Kaneda: 'We had it transforming and it was less than reliable with ball traps and ball impacts seriously affecting it.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pokémon LE launched at $13,000 without core IP features (Pokédex, Insider Connected online integration) despite extended development timeline. Kaneda expresses concern this reflects systemic design prioritization failure, not just execution issue.

    high · Kaneda: 'None of that is in the game' regarding Pokédex/online features; 'a lot more is coming' suggests post-launch patching strategy for foundational features.

  • $

    market_signal: Stern LE secondary market value retention deteriorating across recent premium releases. Documented losses: Foo Fighters, James Bond, D&D, John Wick, Star Wars Fall of the Empire, The Walking Dead totaling ~$20,000 in aggregate depreciation.

    high · Kaneda provides explicit example aggregation and market comps (GNR CE $10,899 recent sale vs. MSRP loss).

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern LE pricing model ($3,000 premium over Pro/$13,000 MSRP) no longer sustainable; insufficient differentiation (no exclusive modes, mechs, artwork, toppers). Historical LE position (500 units @ $7,500, $1,500 premium) provided clearer value proposition.

    high · Kaneda: 'You can't go from a world where LEs were $7,500 and $1,500 more than Premium to now being $13,000 and $3,000 more with more units...it just works.'

  • ~

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.122

0:00
Welcome everybody. Happy Friday. Kaneda here. It is Friday morning, 8 o'clock in the morning. Just decided to do an impromptu Patreon live, which I'm going to record the audio and upload it for you right now as well. So you could watch the live or you could just listen to the audio. Some of you like to jump in the car and hear Kaneda on the way to work. Some of you like to do it when you're mowing the lawn. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Will. Where are you at? Are we in Europe? Are we overseas? Are we in Australia? There is a lot happening in the world of pinball. Love having the chat going here while I talk about the stuff that is on my mind in this pinball world. And the main thing that's on my mind, and I want to discuss this with some of you right now, Will's in the UK, I want to discuss the Stern LE. Because I keep thinking about this. I'm looking at Transformers LE and I have to say, I'm not so sure why everyone's so, like I see a lot of game here. And I see a lot of anger and a lot of like, oh, this, that, this, that's cheap. It's this, it looks terrible. Are we really being serious right now? Like if you put Transformers next to Godzilla, it looks better. If you put it next to D&D, it's got way more in it. If you put it next to James Bond, if you put it next to Jaws, if you put it next to I'm just going down the list of like some of the most amazing Stern machines of all time that get high praise. And I'm just a little bit confused as to why Transformers with these major, major, massive looking mechanisms in it is getting slammed by, I think, most people I talk to. And I really just would love to, I feel like I have confirmation that Optimus Prime is going, oh man, oh man, oh man, okay, oh gosh, no, I just, I just, oh no, no, wait, oh, scratch that, Kale was right, okay. Okay, oh man, George Gomez just hit me up. You're getting this live. Optimist does not transform. Okay, so like let me, I need to go change that on my Facebook. That's a bummer. That's a bummer. That really does sort of spoil some of the party. Hey, man, oh, they couldn't get him to work. They couldn't get it to work. There's always something. There's always something. Let me hold on. I got to go to Facebook right now and change my Facebook post. But I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I can't believe they couldn't get Optimus to transform. Is that a deal breaker for some of you guys out there? Let's see. I hate being wrong. Let's see. But, you know, I'm wrong. Every time I'm wrong, I'm also right in my ability to admit my mistakes. So let's go to my Facebook page right now. For those of you listening, this is what it's like when you go live, baby.

high confidence · Chat message during live show; Kaneda confirms recent market data point.

  • Pokémon LE buyers are 'still above water' if they bought at $13,000 MSRP; only day-one flips profited significantly.

    medium confidence · Kaneda's analysis of current secondary market position for Pokémon LE.

  • Sonic the Hedgehog will 'destroy the value' of Transformers LE within a month of release.

    low confidence · Kaneda's prediction based on hype cycle cannibalization pattern; speculative opinion.

    • Kaneda @ ~50:00 — Specific tangible evidence cited for perceived cost-cutting undermining brand premium perception.

  • “The only one that really should be running to buy any Stern new in box right away is an operator because operators make money off the new game.”

    Kaneda @ ~67:30 — Frames rational buyer profile: home collectors should wait; only location operators have ROI justification.

  • “If you bought Foo Fighters, James Bond, Dungeons and Dragons, John Wick, Star Wars Fall of the Empire, The Walking Dead... you're talking about like $20,000 in value loss on the machines that are supposed to hold the value.”

    Kaneda @ ~46:00 — Quantifies LE depreciation trend across recent premium Stern releases; establishes pattern of failed value retention.

  • “I'm very, very nervous that Stern Pinball did not launch Pokémon with the Insider Connected and the online nature of the game, the foundational nature of the Insider Connected way you're going to collect Pokémon and involve them or share them. None of that is in the game.”

    Kaneda @ ~30:00 — Identifies fundamental missing IP feature at launch; signals structural design failure vs. execution issue.

    • Transformers LE
    game
    Pokémon LEgame
    Sonic the Hedgehoggame
    Kaleperson
    Pat Leeperson
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Falloutgame
    Godzillagame
    Black Sabbath / Ozzy Osbournegame
    AC/DCgame
    KISSgame
    The Walking Deadgame
    Guns N' Roses Collector's Editiongame
    Insider Connectedproduct
    Spike 3product
    IFPA/Twippiesorganization
    Pinball Expoevent
    Winchester Mystery Housegame
    Dunegame

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment turning negative on Stern LE purchases; FOMO decreasing despite high pricing. Kaneda asks directly: 'Do any of you feel any FOMO to get Transformer LE? Are you banging on the door at your distros?' Implies minimal urgency.

    high · Kaneda's framing of lack of LE FOMO and advice to patient buyers to wait for secondary market discounts.

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Pokémon LE battles lack dramatic presentation and emotional resonance; missing sense of injury, unclear win/loss states, no battle mode atmosphere transformation. Kaneda describes as 'numb' despite shot mechanics being 'fun.'

    high · Kaneda: 'I don't feel like I'm in a battle...There's no drama of the battle beginning at all...very emotional disconnect between player and game.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: John Borg rumored to have cornerstone game at upcoming Pinball Expo; IP uncertain (Ozzy Osbourne/Black Sabbath favored over all-new AC/DC/KISS). Follows Star Wars; precedes potential Keith Elwin Fallout launch.

    medium · Kaneda: 'John Borg is having a cornerstone game at Expo...This is a little bit of an exclusive' but acknowledges uncertainty about exact IP.

  • ?

    product_concern: Spike 3 platform perceived as cost-cutting exercise undermining brand premium positioning. Specific evidence: bolted cabinetry (separate pieces bolted together vs. glued monolithic construction), Raspberry Pi computing system vs. prior hardware.

    medium · Kaneda: 'I can see when I look at the front of the cabinet and now there's two little black bolts where there used to not be...That's cheaper to make a cabinet like that.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Sonic the Hedgehog expected to cannibalize Transformers LE secondary market value within one month of launch, following established hype cycle pattern. Kaneda predicts significant depreciation acceleration.

    low · Kaneda: 'I also think Sonic the Hedgehog is going to just destroy the value of this game within a month.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Home collectors should not buy Stern games at MSRP; only operators/locations justify new purchases due to revenue generation from gameplay. Dealers/distributors forced into high-volume buying to maintain profitability despite consumer resistance.

    high · Kaneda: 'The only one that really should be running to buy any Stern new in box right away is an operator because operators make money off the new game.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Kaneda's willingness to publicly correct prior predictions (Pokémon value, Winchester Mystery House assessments) and admit errors in real-time shapes listener expectations. References ability to change position with new information.

    medium · Kaneda: 'I love that people sometimes have a hard time following with me...I will say something and then I will get more information and then I will change my mind.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Kaneda and Kale reference Twippies wins for podcasting; Kaneda claims only three podcasters (Kaneda, Kale, Rachel) have won Twippies for podcasting category, establishing elite tier of content creators.

    medium · Kaneda/Kale conversation: 'Only three podcasters have won the Twippy for podcasting. You, me, and Rachel...We're just built different.'

    • 3:08
    Nope. Edit. Let's edit. Edit posts. Oh man, affirmed. Optimus Prime will not, not transform. Bummer. Oh, gosh. It really does, like, man, I get the worst. Oh, man. I'm just like, I'm telling Kale right now. Let's get Kale on the phone. Let's call him up right now. Okay, let's get him on speakerphone right now. This is gonna be fun. Let's get him out. Let's get him on the show. Oh, man, I just wanted to say you were right and never, never. Let's see if he picks up. We start calling people live like this more often.
    4:10
    Hey, hey, what's up, homie? What's up, brother? Just so you know, you're on, I'm on a Patreon live right now. You're on speakerphone. I just wanted to tell you you were right and to never, never challenge your info again. He does not transform.
    4:27
    Right, right. And George just said they couldn't get it to work. I mean, what do you think? Is that a deal breaker on this game or what?
    4:36
    Man, I don't know. You know, we're going to have to play it. We're going to have to play to see what's going on.
    4:43
    But you got to like, I mean, Optimus, right? Him going from truck form to standing up is the quintessential. Like you know what I saying Like that the foundation of the entire dream of every young boy who had the toy Well here the biggest issue If it doesn transform that lock shot is just open the whole time Because it looks like the whole point of the game was that lock shot, that buck, it's not open when the optimist is a truck. So it really changes the game mechanics if it does not transform. That's the biggest deal. Right, right. I also think it changes your ability to create moments in the game, right? Oh, massively.
    5:40
    I can see how they can sync up the code with Megatron loading up his cannon and firing it, but the moments in the show when Optimus goes from truck form into robot form. That's it. That's when he battles.
    5:56
    Are you really on a live right now? Yeah, we're on a Patreon live. I'm holding the phone to my mic. It's 5 o'clock. Where am I at right now? Where are you at? I'm in Arizona, bro. It's three hours earlier? Oh, shit. Yeah. I'm sorry, bro. Go back to bed.
    6:13
    No, I mean, I'm about to go to the gym. That's it, baby. I'm about to go to the gym, too. I love it, man. We'll chat later. We'll chat after. Rachel's looking at me like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, well, this is how we do it on Canada's Pinball Podcast. We never sleep. You can't win the Twi... Look, I always was telling Cal, like, we're the only two pinball podcasters that have ever won Twippies. We're just built different. We're built different.
    6:39
    Right. Right? Only three podcasters have won the Twippy for podcasting. You, me, and Rachel. There you go. And we're just built different. Look, he's up at 5 a.m. about to hit the gym. That's how you win. People don't understand. That's what it takes. That's how you do it. I feel great, brother. Yeah, amazing. Amazing. Look, go hit the gym. We'll chat later, brother. Okay, man. Have a good day. All right, you too.
    7:03
    All right. You see how it is, man? You see how we roll? You know, when you're training for a twippy, you're up at 5 a.m. This is unfortunate. I want to read for you exactly what George Gomez told me. We had it transforming and it was less than reliable with ball traps and ball impacts seriously affecting it. OK, so they couldn't get it to work that, you know, and I could see like he's transforming and balls are flying and you hit his arms. But I, oh man, I don't know if that's something the community will be able to fix, but it is absolutely a, oh man, it's a gut punch. It's a gut punch. Because I think that some of the feedback we were getting that Transformers is going to have the ultimate mechanism in any game ever was the transforming optimist and they couldn't get it to work. And, you know, this game has been in development for 25 months. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's just like, yeah, so Ozzy's like still better than Pokemon. So here's the thing on this sort of impromptu Canada Live show that you guys are listening to. I think that Pokemon is in big trouble. I do. And what I mean by big trouble is this. I just think the Pokemon owners now are in for a very long wait. And my worry about Pokemon is that they're not really going to be able to implement the Pokedex, which is the quintessential thing to make the game a lot of fun. Because if you think about what makes Pokemon so much fun, it is collecting the different Pokemon, putting them in your Pokédex, and then having the ability to share that with your other Pinball friends and people out there in the world. And I'm not sure that's ever going to come to fruition. I'm very, very nervous about one simple thing. I'm very, very nervous that a game that has clearly been in production for over a year and a half, two years maybe, a game that they have been working with a license holder for a very long time, It makes me very nervous that Stern Pinball did not launch Pokemon with the insider connected and the online nature of the game, the foundational nature of the insider connected way you're going to collect Pokemon and involve them or share them. None of that is in the game. And so this to me is sort of like an utter disaster if you think about it because if you launch Pokemon without that in the game I just don think people hearing the design team and development team being like a lot more is coming to me like has me very very worried because if the foundation is not there I a little worried especially with like what we got with the first code update I a little worried that it not there Now look we are still very very early on in the development cycle at so a lot more could come
    10:12
    Alexandros said it has no Pokemon gameplay features other than the handful of battles. And Andros, I would also add that what I'm missing from the Pokemon game right now is any sense of drama, any sense of achievement, any sense of excitement when a battle starts. Have you noticed this when you play the game? It's just like you start a battle by shooting the scoop and then a battle is just happening. When I play the battles, I'm getting no sense of my Pokemon is getting injured. I'm getting no sense that I'm actually hurting the other Pokemon I'm battling. I just don't feel like I'm in a battle is the best way to articulate what I'm saying right now. I just don't feel anything. It's like switches are being hit and you're hitting some lit shots and then you see the health bar. Yeah, I don't even know. There's times when I'm in a battle, I'm not even sure if I'm winning the battle or losing the battle. I'm not even sure if what I'm doing is hurting the opponent or helping me or vice versa. It feels very numb and I don't feel this like sense that I'm in a battle. And you know what I'm saying? It's like when a battle begins in Pokemon, like the machine should sort of transform itself and no pun intended with transformers. But the machine itself should sort of go into like a battle mode where like all the lights go off. And in this corner, we've got Pikachu. And in this corner, you know, we've got Charizard. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's no drama of the battle beginning at all. It's just like battle. And it feels like the battle is just going on on top of whatever else you're doing in the game. Again, I just I think there's just a lot of emotional disconnect between the player and the game. And it's like I love the assets. I love the cuteness of the game, but I'm just not feeling this like like moments. I guess that's the easiest way to say, you know me, I love pinball moments. I love it when a game sort of pulls you in and creates these moments that you want to get to time and time again. And I feel like as it is right now, Pokemon is coming up very, very short. The gameplay to me is simple. It's rewarding. It's fun. The shots are fun. But in its current form, and I'm saying this as someone who's playing a $13,000 LE version of the game. My check for automated was $14,200. It feels like what we have is a pro game. You know what I'm saying? It's still missing something else that's wowed. It just doesn't have anything else in it that really is wowing us. And as I look at Transformers, even though they lose Optimus, they've still got Soundwave, they've still got Grimlock, they've still got Megatron doing stuff, they've still got other things in the game. I think what's going to happen is this. I think Transformers is going to come out. I think it's going to be neat. I think it's going to be interesting. I think the game is going to get absolutely roasted with the static Optimus Prime. It just feels like Stern made a Godzilla that didn't move, made a Jaws that doesn't eat the ball, and made an Optimus Prime that doesn't transform. You have to sort of ask the question, what is up with the engineering over there at Stern? They literally took some of their – even if the games are good or not, their inability to take the main characters of these huge properties and engineer them in a way that interacts with the ball, that does something magical is really, really, really, really weak. It is really, really weak. You know what I'm saying? I don't know any other way to put it. At least the Meow with Balloon is doing what he's doing. I don't even know what other Pokemon mechs we would like to see, but I'm very disappointed in the Optimus' lack of transformation. I think that is a huge, huge loss in the game. It's crazy George Gomez thinks it's a good answer to say we tried, it didn't work, you get absolutely nothing but static. Do something else if it didn't work. So JC, I mean, look, I don't think it's crazy, man. George is just being honest with me about it. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not a crazy answer. And look, who are we to say we could have made it work? So I'm not like I'm disappointed. I'm not angry with them. I'm just disappointed. And I think it's it's a fair response. It's also like this gang. Nobody's making me buy the game. And I as I said on the last show I very intrigued by Transformers It obviously is a theme I love very very much I think they going to nail a lot of the assets and the sort of translation of the TV show to the pinball machine It looks phenomenal. Pat Lee did a great job on the artwork. The whole game itself, I think when you see it from a player's perspective and you really see the size of Soundwave and Megatron and Optimus, I think this top-down view is not doing anything for the game. I think when we see the player perspective of Transformers, it is going to be one of the most wow stern worlds under glass we've ever seen. I mean this. These are ginormous mechanisms in this game. And I think it's going to have some moments of wow. So I do think there's going to be a real sort of enthusiasm for Transformers when we see it in the right way and in the right light. And then we're going to see Sonic. And I think Sonic is just going to be crazy cool. And I think everything about Sonic is going to be wow and awesome. And then you're going to have to make a decision, right? But my point of this show, and I was saying it yesterday, and I've been alluding to this, is I really just feel like Stern LEs to me are just in this strange no man's land that just doesn't work anymore. And we've just seen it time and time again. I just don't know why. They took the LE so much over the premium, $3,000 more. You don't get $3,000 more in value. And there's just not enough differentiation happening. It gets into everything. No exclusive topper, no exclusive modes, no exclusive playfield artwork, no exclusive mechs, all this. It just $3,300 just for the plaque and a little bit of stuff here and there. It just doesn't work. It doesn't work. The back box on the Pro looks better than the LE. I don't know. Well, JC, we have to see it in person. Since the transforming Optimus Prime was removed from the game, this is what Jim said. Did they add something else? No, they didn't add anything else, bro. Like they did not add anything else. They they did not. So the other thing I'm hearing is this, that John Borg is having a cornerstone game at Expo. So this is a little bit of an exclusive for all of you guys. So if John Borg has a cornerstone game at Expo, it does beg the question that would make Pokemon a cornerstone, Transformers a cornerstone and John Borg's game, which I'm hearing is what Ozzy Osbourne or Black Sabbath. I mean, that's sort of that feels like what's going to happen. I think all these rumors of Borg doing an all new ACDC or all new. I don't know. It's either going to be an all new ACDC, all new, all new kiss or but the Black Sabbath Ozzy Osbourne feels like, you know, that might be the way to go. So if we think about I don't know, it doesn't really make sense, though. Like, didn't John Borg just do Star Wars and we haven't what was the last Keith Elwin game? But King Kong came out before Star Wars. So I don't know, man. I still think we're going to see Keith Elwin's fallout this year as well. I don't know. Maybe Stern has four cornerstone games this year. Maybe they're starting. It does feel like they're rushing these games out. The code is not really where it needs to be for consumer dollars to be distributed over to Stern. I don't know, but I just think as a model, do any of you feel any FOMO to get Transformer LE? Are you banging on the door at your distros to buy this game? For some of us out there, it's $13,000 plus shipping and plus tax.
    18:46
    I don't know. Ozzy, it's interesting. I just think if you're going to buy one at MSRP, I just don't see this game holding value. I also think Sonic the Hedgehog is going to just destroy the value of this game within a month. So I don't know, man. I really do worry a lot about Stern LE and the three-tier model. And they haven't really done anything. This is my concern at Stern is from a marketing standpoint, this company seems like it doesn't even try or attempt anything new. It doesn't try or attempt anything new when it comes to the preservation of the value of these LEs. It's almost like the only thing they know how to do is make fewer games. And even then, they're not where they need to be. You can't have an environment in which you are selling out at 500 units at $7,500. Like that's when LEs felt like LEs. And also when that was happening, LEs were only $7,500 and they were only $1,500 more than the premium. So you can't go from a world like that, which was, you know. Maybe it was 10 years ago, but that's not that long ago. It's not. For most of us out there in 10 years, it's just crazy now. We're at $13,000 and there's more units out there and it's $3,000 more than a premium. It's just a weird world where unlimited premiums at $10,000 a pop or $9,700 a pop. I just don't think it works. And again, it's just like looking at the data. It's interesting when you think about none of this is subjective. None of it is subjective. If I were to pull up the data and show everybody, if you bought Foo Fighters, James Bond, if you bought Dungeons and Dragons, if you bought John Wick, if you bought, what am I missing here, Star Wars, Fall of the Empire, if you bought, you know, The Walking Dead, If you just add up all those games, you're talking about like you've probably lost right there $20,000 in value on the machines that are supposed to hold the value.
    21:03
    So the games feel worse quality and have less in them, says Andra. So, well, this is the other thing, right? There is a perception of value problem. The perception of value is everything when it comes to brand and a brand's value and the equity in that brand. For example, Rolex has a quality product that people, you know, they have a perception of value in that watch. Same way Mercedes-Benz has a perception of value. It can charge more for their product because of that value perception. Ferrari, Porsche, right? So when Stern went over to Spike 3 and the changes they made to the platform really did feel like they were making things cheaper, that again moves your consumer and your customer base to a position of skepticism and unfulfillment and just feeling like I can see with my own eyes, I can feel with my own hands that you're getting, you know, your cost cutting and you're making these things cheaper. I can see when I look at the front of the cabinet and now there's two little black bolts where there used to not be by the legs on the game because these cabinets aren't even, you know, glued together and solid like they used to be. There are separate pieces that are bolted together because that's cheaper to make a cabinet like that. And I understand when Stern says stuff like, well, it makes it easier, it makes it this, it makes it, yeah, sure, but you're saving money. And when you put a Raspberry Pi as the computing system in the game, you're saving money. Like we're not seeing this humongous leap forward. And that's the thing. It's like if you put a Stern Spike 3 next to some of like a Batman SLE, the Spike 3 looks cheaper than the Spike 2 games that nailed it. Right. And I know there's a bigger screen, but I don't know. It just doesn't feel like we're getting more for our money. We're getting less. And this is another issue for us all out there in the world. This is across the world now. There is just a feeling by everybody that everything's gone up in price. I'm not getting what I used to get for my money. And at some point, you just stop eating at McDonald's. At some point, you just stop buying every new Pinball new in box. I think we're there, man. I don't really feel any – I don't know, man. And I will say I get some of you, you know, with a lot of money, you know, you make it a lot every two weeks, you're making a lot every year, you got a few million bucks, it means nothing. Like these are cheap toys for multimillionaires. So there's that, right? If you're a multimillionaire, these are cheap toys. This is never going to like, you're never going to feel it. It's not the worst investment. Your money's not going to ever go up, but it's going to give you some hours of fun. And if you want to get out, yeah, you'll lose $3,000. But for those gentlemen, losing $3,000, $4,000 on a pinball machine means absolutely nothing.
    24:20
    These are men who are every time they fly, it's business class. It's $3,000 to $6,000 a ticket. They don't care. When they eat out, they can drop a grand at a steakhouse. They don't care. I get it. I have a lot of friends like that. There's months when I spend like that, depending on how much I've saved up over the last few months or if anything nice happens at work or you get a bonus or something, Which happens fewer and fewer times now I will say this the more the companies I work for make money the less they give it back to the employees It just seems to be the modern world So as you tighten your belt I mean it easy to say like pinball ain the thing that is the smart place to put your money I also just think if you love pinball and you smart and you want the nicest version of the games it just so easy to be patient wait and go grab everything when it is much much cheaper I think I'm going to finally just sell my Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition. I had a lot of fun with the game. It still is a beautiful game. And I, you know, I would say that I might, you know, probably take somewhere around 10, 9 to 10 on the table is what I think I'll get for it. Maybe a little bit less. I don't know. I don't know. You know, look, the market will determine what people will spend on that Guns N' Roses. It's in great condition. It's number 500 out of 500. Again, I'm not even one of these people that thinks that matters. I'm so much, so much different in my mindset with these CEs and LEs and all this stuff. You know, I just think games need to be great. They need to be satisfying. And I think when you get a few satisfying games in your home, I think that's a level of like happiness that should just prevent you from constantly buying more. I think the world is crazy in terms of its marketing that we need to buy more stuff to feel happy. I think we're inundated with ads everywhere. I think the less we have, the happier we are. The less we have to think about, the less we have to manage, the less we have to deal with, the happier we are. A happy man has one pinball machine that he plays every single day and gets enjoyment out of it. A happy man has one watch that he loves to wear and doesn't care about anything else. The days of like flexing, you can, you know, it's a young man's game. I, I, I, I, look, it's fun to flex. It's fun at times to be a little showy when you have a lot and just, you know, put a little bit of a fancier jacket on and looking good. I still think men should look good and be presentable when you go out. I go back and forth between looking like a Ralph Lauren double-breasted jacket gentleman to a Neo-Tokyo baggy Louis Vuitton jeans wearing a Charizard necklace. I go between looking like MGK or looking like Ralph Lauren and everything in between because it just depends what mood I'm in and I think fashion should be fun. And I think way too many adults get way too uptight and act like adults. You know that thing, you need to grow up and act your age. I don't even know what that means anymore. I really don't. Okay. So let me ask some of your, let's get some questions from you guys. Then I'm going to just put this show up. I know this is a little bit of a sloppier way to do it. There's no editing, but I hope you're enjoying listening to this. If you're just listening to it as a podcast, there's not going to be any editing, any show intro. I'm just going to upload both the audio and then you can watch the video. So let me ask some questions from you guys. GNR CE just sold for $10,899 at Flippin' Out. Okay, cool. So we have a recent market price of the game. I think whatever. I'll get around there. I really don't care. I really don't care. Andro says too many Stern games per year. Yeah, they're making too much. They're moving too fast. The way their games are cannibalizing each other is a problem. And then it's crazy that a game that can come out next week will have more code in it than a game that came out four months ago. How is it too many when they sell through most games? How is OK? So, well, you know, Ozzy, the thing is this. The dealers and distros, man, like they have to absorb these Sterns because it is their livelihood. Like they have no other way to do it, man. Like if these dealers and distros relied only on boutiques, they couldn't stay in business. So they need volume. And Stern is the only company that consistently gives you volume of sales. And you have those moments every four months where you're going to get a lot of sales in one day. But will they move the premiums of these games and will they overbuy? That's the that's the tricky part.
    29:07
    And look, Stern Stern can't rely on just the initial launch sales. They need consistent sales to justify these games. That's why games like The Walking Dead are just like abysmal disasters. And so, you know, successful games will lessen the blow. But when they have like a financial disaster game, it's got to hurt. It's got to hurt them.
    29:33
    Mike said Stern flooding the market creates value for patient buyers. You save good money and get more complete game. Easy peasy. I agree, Mike. I agree. The the only one that really should be running to buy any Stern new inbox right away is an operator because operators make money off of the new game because people come in and spend money Ihr m the new game To be a home buyer make no money off of your Pokemon and then see it lose value Now look I want to also be honest when I say Pokemon LE has not lost any money Nobody bought a Pokemon LE has lost a single dollar unless you paid a scalper price Everybody who bought one at 13 is still above water.
    30:26
    Now, you've lost thousands of potential dollars because the game will never be selling for 18,000 again and 19,000 and 17,000. You had to have gotten out right away on day one. I mean, this is what day one flips where the money was.
    30:48
    Now, I'll tell you this right now. The guy that bought my machine for $23,000 is so wealthy. It's so wealthy. It's not even worth his time to, you know what I'm saying? Like he's made so much money every day since then. He won't even notice, you know what I'm saying? 23, 16, he don't care. He don't care. Now I care. I care. Right? I mean, I will say this. When I put a check in the bank for 10 grand, I'd much rather do that. Then deposit a check for three. I mean, that is a that is that is paying for all of my hotels when I go to Italy in July. So, yeah, I'm the kind of guy where every thousand dollars like I actually know where it could go and I feel better than, you know, I feel it. You know, I'm not one of these guys where seven thousand dollars. It does matter because I've got a lot of stuff that I want to do and I want to buy and I want to pay for. And with a family like, you know, I'm spending five thousand a month on daycare. So you understand this. Like it's crazy how expensive life is.
    31:56
    Was he a pinhead or a Pokemon fan? I think he's just a pinhead. Tell yourself that to make yourself feel better. Wealthy people don't like losing thousands to accept their buying. I don't know, man. I don't even care, man. I don't do because you got to think about it. You got to think about it, JC. Like what if you're wealthy and smart? Why would you throw that much money at a pinball machine? I don't know any smart people doing that. Because, yeah, I do think it is a little silly to spend that much money over. Your listeners want money to matter to you because it matters to us. Yeah, well, I feel like I've always, always been in the best interest of each and every one of you. And I mean that. And I told you guys, get in on Pokemon early. And I told you guys, like, scalp your Pokemons right away. You know how many people I told to sell right away? Just sell. Take the money. And you know how many guys didn't? And look, when I said I think this game could go to $25,000, you know, this and that, that was before we saw how little was in the game code-wise. You've got to remember this. Like, we didn't know really how little was implemented into the game. And I love that people sometimes have a hard time following with me on my own sort of journey where I will say something and then I will get more information and then I will change my mind. You know what I'm saying? Like I would probably have said nobody's going to buy Winchester Mystery House before it came out. And then I probably would have said, wow, they did it. They sold 525 in two days. And then I would say, hey, I think Winchester Mystery House is actually going to like be really hard to get and hold value. And it has. You can change your mind. Same thing with Dune. Remember, I'm still not the biggest fan of Dune. I still think Dune is going to be one of these games that holds way more value than most Stern LEs. Way more. If they go down as only making 700 Dunes ever, ever, that makes every single Dune a limited edition game that has everything fully featured and has all this stuff and all this and all that. And if they put the third movie assets into this game, you know what I'm saying? It's like there's only going to be 700 ever. The problem with Stern, it's like, yeah, 750 LEs, but then like thousands of premiums. And then all of a sudden, nobody cares. So that's just the way it is. And Dune does have great word of mouth. And no BS show games with Buff. Yeah, look, we all know this, man. The show games, the Spooky show games, they are what they are. Like, there's a reason why. Like, right now, we're into, some guy said he's in the 300s and it's June, right? So January, February, March, April, May, June. How is it that, like, six months, man, and Spooky's only made 300 games? The reason why they made more than 300 you just know them as show games I don know man It also like it also doesn make me feel good that these show games got made before the customer games I just think about that for a minute. So basically, people that got online first as your customers that initially thought there was only going to be 999, you made show games in front of those people's games. I don't like it. And they're not doing it again. I just don't like it.
    35:25
    So Goldfinger James Bond, yep, coming out this fall. I wonder if they put all the efforts on Transformer mechs. So I definitely heard from people over there that because Transformers is loaded, not everything will get as much bomb. I don't know, man. I don't pretend to know how Stern runs its business. It's not how I would run the business, but I also, I just think they're too big. And I think keeping that massive ship afloat with all those employees, and it's all about like the line has to keep moving every single day or it doesn't work. I just think it's recipe for unfinished product. We're seeing that. It's recipe for cannibalizing your own sales. We're seeing that. It's recipe for your brand value and perception of value eroding over time. We're seeing that. All of this is bad. I don't think Stern is doing anything truly, truly right right now. I don't. I think they're rushing. I think they're turning every customer into a guinea pig. And I think everyone's losing their shirt on all these games. And I think the narrative that everything is great is coming from maybe dealers and distros. And I don't know, I just the more I look at it, the more I'm just like, I don't know, we're kind of in a world now where I think a lot of us would just be content getting one to two boutique games a year that are special, that hold. And you're good, right? You get your hands on a Winchester and a Back to the Future and you're telling me you need more. You get your hands on a Beetlejuice and a Goonies and you're telling me you need more pinball that year in your house? You get your hands on a Transformers and a... Let's see what else. What other boutiques coming? Transformers and a Totem? I don't know. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, Kelly, the collectors, you know, these who collects things that keep losing value to me, like a depreciating collection is the dumbest thing to collect. It's like it's literally the opposite. It's the opposite. But look, Ozzy, and you know this, man, these most of these pinheads, man, they don't most of the collectors don't play their games. They don't play their games. There is literally a lack of that. You know, it's just it's like they're just bored, wealthy men that just want to unbox something and have something new. And then they play it for like a few weekends. And then, you know, in a year, they sell it with less than 200 plays.
    38:13
    Anyway, everybody have a happy Friday. I'm going to go to the gym before work. Today's chest and back day. And I'm going to go work out. I'm going to go get in some work meetings, do a late lunch with my beautiful wife. It's going to be a beautiful weekend, a beautiful week coming up. And then we get a new pinball machine next week and Transformers. I think we're going to see some stuff from Jersey Jack as well next week or just like hear about some things. So all good, man. Everybody, health and happiness. Take care of yourselves. This is a fun live show. So again, I'm super excited to just keep giving you guys content in different forms. We will still do the Saturday Morning Spectacular tomorrow in which we will talk about a lot of this stuff in a fun way. So thank you guys for your support and we will see, man. Next week is going to be crazy. Get ready. I think a lot of stuff is going to leak too on the other side of the fences. I think there's just photos flying around of Sonic, of Back to the Future. There's no way they're going to be able to keep all this stuff under wraps.
    39:24
    But I'm excited because watching all these companies battle it out just means as buyers, it's going to be a buyer market. It just is. I'm traveling tomorrow. All right, we'll catch it on the next one, Ozzy. Ozzy, you can always prepay for your amazing $100 donations. Ozzy's the best. He's always kicking $100 to this Saturday Morning Spectacular. I've had some other listeners, man. I guess I didn't call out someone's name enough when they donated some money and they got really mad at me. It's just strange. Send me my PayPal info here. I'll give you my. Paypal right now, Kaneda Pinball at Gmail. It's my email address. And I will give you a big shout out, Ozzy. It's just Kaneda Pinball at gmail.com. I love it. Ozzy, you're the best man. I love you, brother. All right, guys. We will pick this back up tomorrow. But yeah, and enjoy this live podcast. And don't complain because you got a show yesterday. All right. And there's no intro music and there's no outro music. Kaneda out. All right. There we go. I just hit stop on Patreon. Now I'm going to stop here. Happy Friday, everybody. Peace and love.