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Episode 19 - Steve Smith Interview 3-29-15

For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 57m·analyzed·Mar 30, 2015
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Steve Smith describes introducing bingo pinball to Nick Baldrige and shares restoration/collection stories from the EM bingo community.

Summary

Steve Smith, a prominent bingo pinball enthusiast and restorer, recounts how he introduced Nick Baldrige to bingo pinball machines, leading Nick from zero machines to eleven games. Smith discusses his prized Bikini restoration (serial #1518), its appearance at the 2011 New York show, and the acquisition of various bingo machines through collector connections like James Say and Jeffrey Lawton. The episode explores the deeper emotional engagement bingo pinball offers compared to standard flipper pinball, emphasizing drama, anticipation, and big-hit elation.

Key Claims

  • Steve Smith owns a Bikini bingo machine (serial #1518) that he considers possibly 'the most famous bikini bingo pinball machine in the known universe' due to its 2011 New York show publicity and Pin Game Journal feature.

    high confidence · Steve Smith directly, with documented evidence (magazine article, photos, RGP posts)

  • Vic Camp hit the Bikini for 600 credits at the 2011 New York show, fulfilling a prophecy he posted on RGP before the event.

    high confidence · Steve Smith describing verified Pin Game Journal article and RGP post from Vic Camp

  • Nick Baldrige progressed from having no pinball machines to owning eleven machines, after Steve introduced him to bingo pinball.

    high confidence · Both Steve Smith and Nick Baldrige confirm this in the conversation

  • James Say from Lynchburg, Virginia sold Steve Smith a Bikini for $200 and later a Golden Gate and Bounty for $50 total (or $50 each).

    high confidence · Steve Smith's detailed transaction narrative, corroborated by Nick

  • Old Bingo's Forum was an important bingo community resource that 'went down' before Nick Baldrige got into the hobby, roughly 2-3 years before 2015.

    medium confidence · Both speakers refer to it as a lost resource with 'incredible bingo information'

  • Phil Hooper (also known as Phil Bogoma) was a moderator of Old Bingo's Forum and has owned up to 31 bingo machines, currently down to 7.

    high confidence · Steve Smith's direct conversation with Phil Hooper on phone, corroborated by references to Phil's website writeups

  • Bingo pinball players experience more emotional variety than standard flipper pinball players, particularly 'pure elation' from big payouts.

    medium confidence · Steve Smith's authored article for Pin Game Journal, presented as opinion/philosophy rather than fact

  • Franz in the Netherlands has a small warehouse with 5-6 Bounty back glasses but is reluctant to ship due to their value and rarity.

Notable Quotes

  • “Basically, I think if you can't get along with me, there's something wrong with you. That said, I'm not right all the time. Just most of the time.”

    Steve Smith @ ~0:30-1:00 — Establishes Steve's personality and tone: confident, self-aware, humorous

  • “He got 100 and something... 120... 144... And then we're playing Golden Gate and he gets the gate lit... it's like a curtain came up and he looks at me: 'I get it. These things are cool as heck.' And a new bingo guy was born.”

    Steve Smith @ ~4:00-5:30 — Pivotal moment in Nick's conversion to bingo; illustrates the emotional hook of bingo gameplay

  • “I promised Molly this will be the only one. Tongue in cheek. And now he's got eleven.”

    Steve Smith @ ~5:00-6:00 — Key narrative arc: Steve jokingly prophesies Nick's collecting trajectory

  • “That bikini's number is 1518 off the production line. All the serial numbers... they were tampered with... but I did a repair on that... I got that paint over and found out that number.”

    Steve Smith @ ~12:00-14:00 — Documents provenance and restoration expertise for the famous Bikini machine

  • “I've got no, it very well could be the most famous bikini bingo pinball machine in the known universe because of its publicity.”

    Steve Smith @ ~14:00 — Direct claim about the Bikini's notoriety in the bingo community

  • “Vic Camp... posted on RGP: 'Steve, set that thing, set it up and get that tilt bob set so I can shake it to victory. I'm going to bust it for 600.' And that's exactly what he did.”

    Steve Smith @ ~16:00-17:00 — Documents the famous 600-credit hit on the Bikini at York show; shows RGP's role in pre-show hype

  • “I would say that I've never played a bingo that I didn't like. So there is that... they're all interesting for different reasons, some of them will lose their sparkle.”

    Nick Baldrige @ ~35:00 — Reflects Nick's evolved perspective on bingo variety and playability

Entities

Steve SmithpersonNick BaldrigepersonJeffrey LawtonpersonVic CamppersonPhil HooperpersonJames SaypersonDennis O'DellpersonChris Dadeperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Old Bingo's Forum went offline before ~2012-2013; represented loss of centralized bingo community knowledge and documentation. Phil Hooper was a moderator.

    high · Both speakers lament the forum's disappearance and note it contained 'incredible bingo information'; Phil Hooper confirmed as moderator.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Nick Baldrige's collection growth from 0 to 11 machines in ~2-3 years mirrors classic collector FOMO progression; Steve Smith's influence as curator/gateway figure.

    high · Steve joked about promising Molly 'only one,' now Nick owns 11; shows rapid escalation typical of collector markets.

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Bounty back glasses are extremely rare and elusive; Franz in Netherlands has only 5-6 units and reluctant to ship. Reproduction options (Chris Dade paper/digital) are workarounds.

    high · Direct testimony from Steve Smith about Franz's stash; corroborated by Chris Dade's reproduction efforts and paper sandwich alternatives.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Bingo pinball emphasizes emotional drama, anticipation, and 'pure elation' from big payouts; standard flipper pinball emphasizes action thrills. Different player psychology and engagement models.

    high · Steve Smith's articulated article excerpt: 'thrills in normal pinball come from action. Thrills from bingo come from drama.'

  • ?

    content_signal: Pin Game Journal stopped publishing due to editor Jim's health issues and subsequent editorial conflict with Clay Harrell. Content pipeline disrupted as of early 2015.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.353

0:00
Welcome back to For Amusement Only. This is Nick Baldrige, and I have a special guest here with me today, Steve Smith of Bingo Fame.
0:12
I don't know about fame, but... Infamy? No. I try to be a good guy. No, I don't try to be a good guy. I am a good guy. Basically, I think if you can't get along with me, there's something wrong with you. That said, I'm not right all the time. Just most of the time. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
0:39
Thanks for having me over, Nick. Yeah. It's cool. Anytime. The door is mostly always open, except when it's closed and locked. Well, it's probably when I'd want to come. So Nick told me he wanted me to talk about how we met.
1:03
And, well, he touched on that in his first ever podcast I listened to. And it was through his wife. We would get chatting about stuff at work. And I said something about pinball. And his wife, Molly, goes, pinball? Do you know medieval madness? and it's like you know eyebrows went down wait a minute I'm getting suckered in here and so you know she told me Nick was into video pinball and didn't have any real games they didn't have room for him in her house was half smaller mine and so that I finally met him invited him over to play of course he came and We had a big time. And like he said in his first podcast, played the flipper games and went out back. Have you seen these things? No. I said, well, these are called bingo pinballs. And these were gambling machines.
2:09
And he played them. And I gave him, spoon fed him a little bit, just a little bit of, you know, the left hand. And he plays a little bit, and I can see he's looking at anything. He's cool, but they're just a bit too cerebral.

medium confidence · Steve Smith reporting second-hand information from Franz

  • Chris Dade produces reproduction back glasses for bingo machines, including paper sandwich versions and potentially digital/scanned versions.

    medium confidence · Steve Smith referencing Chris Dade's work; implies ongoing availability but limited detail

  • Pin Game Journal has not published recent issues due to editor Jim's health issues and subsequent conflict with Clay Harrell over editorial control.

    medium confidence · Steve Smith reporting industry gossip from RGP; not directly verified

  • “The thrills in normal pinball come from the action. The thrills from playing bingo pinball come from drama... the most notable feeling a bingo pinball player can get that normal pinball players don't is pure elation when we make a big hit for a payout.”

    Steve Smith @ ~52:00-54:00 — Core philosophical distinction between bingo and flipper pinball; illustrates design philosophy difference

  • “Phil was really involved with Old Binger's Forum. He was one of the moderators... he's an accountant and he did a bunch of digitizing SI cards... and he and Phil were collaborating on back glass scanning.”

    Steve Smith @ ~48:00 — Documents Phil Hooper's contributions to the bingo community and archival efforts

  • “Dennis O'Dell, famous pinball guy, man. He's all over IPD, all over the bingos stuff... super nice guy.”

    Steve Smith @ ~50:00 — Recognition of Dennis O'Dell as a key figure in bingo pinball community and archival work

    • Danny Leach
    person
    Mollyperson
    Joe Joyceperson
    Franzperson
    Hugh Coneperson
    Joe Shopperson
    Jimperson
    Clay Harrellperson
    Eddieperson
    For Amusement Onlyorganization
    Old Bingo's Forumorganization
    Pin Game Journalorganization
    New York Pinball Show / York Showevent
    Mr. Pinball Classifiedsorganization
    Bikinigame
    Golden Gategame
    Bountygame

    medium · Steve Smith reports from RGP gossip that 'Jim's health has been an issue' and 'they end up locking horns or something.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Steve Smith acts as informal knowledge broker for bingo community; receives questions from newer collectors; emphasizes 'spoon feeding' information to avoid overwhelming newcomers.

    high · Steve recounts helping new collectors (Greg with Roller Derby), taking phone calls from Phil Hooper, and deliberately pacing Nick's introduction to bingo mechanics.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Phil Hooper emerging as key archival figure; involved in Old Bingo's Forum moderation, SI card digitization, back glass scanning, and willing to participate in podcast interviews.

    high · Steve Smith's phone conversation with Phil; Phil's involvement in Old Bingo's Forum, digitization work, and basement renovation (downsizing from 31 to 7 machines).

  • ?

    venue_signal: Earl's was a bingo pinball venue where Steve Smith played Golden Gate in the past; represents loss of public play venues for bingo machines.

    low · Steve Smith mentions 'Earl's' as a place where he used to play Golden Gate, implying it's now closed or no longer offers bingo.

  • ?

    product_concern: Mirrored back glasses are vulnerable to deterioration without constant climate control; Steve's Bikini's back glass failed in the shop due to humidity/temperature fluctuations.

    high · Steve Smith: 'But that ended up dying in the man shop because of the not being in constant climate control. So everything you've heard about that stuff is true.'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Chris Dade producing custom back glasses and potentially high-resolution digital scans. Labor-intensive but available option for rare glass sourcing.

    medium · Steve mentions Chris Dade providing paper sandwich glass for Bounty and Phil Hooper's potential high-res scan improvement work.

  • ?

    event_signal: 2011 New York Pinball Show was major community event; Steve Smith's Bikini featured prominently, gained media coverage (Pin Game Journal #151, September 2012), and became centerpiece of community storytelling.

    high · Pin Game Journal Issue #151 with Jeffrey Lawton's article, Vic Camp's public prediction of 600-credit hit that came true, photo documentation.

  • ?

    historical_signal: Bingo pinball community maintains strong oral tradition and shared narratives; iconic machines (like Steve's Bikini) become community landmarks; storytelling reinforces social bonds and knowledge preservation.

    high · Entire episode is organized around interconnected stories of machine acquisitions, restorations, and community relationships; Phil Hooper's slideshow and archival efforts.

    • 2:29
    Now, I'm like, okay, he didn't get it. And a couple more sessions. Oh, no, I went over to his place and played some video pinball and confirmed he didn't have room for machines.
    2:43
    He didn't. His house was smaller than mine. Didn't stop me, though, did it? Well, I was part to blame or credit or blame. I mean, either way. I'd say both.
    2:59
    I'm Bruce Craigslist, like a lot of us pinheads do. Nick, I know he needs a game. He knows he needs a game. hey Nick here's a nice game on Craig's list what do you think and I don't have room man let's just go look at it well he ended up getting it he didn't have room ended up in his living room that night we set it up and played it I think he had an issue or two and on the way out I looked at Molly I said, Molly, I promise this will be the only one. Tongue in cheek.
    3:46
    And now he's got, how many have you got, seven? Eleven. Okay. Can't break it. Somewhere in here.
    3:52
    And, you know, created a monster. But anyway, back to the bingo stuff. Yes. One day he's over playing and we're back in the shop. And I'm showing him how the feature stuff works. And this is intriguing him a little more. because up to that point we've been talking about odds and how to make three, four, five in a row, but not really how to make section winners or those kind of things, okay games, any of that. You were really keeping it slow and simple there for me, which I appreciate. I'm slow and simple. No, you're not. And it's just easy to get overwhelmed with stuff. Now, I'm a certified kitchen designer, and when you do stuff all the time, it's easy to rattle off all kinds of things and then people's eyes glaze over because you're giving them too much too fast. Right. And since I've been doing that for so long and knowing how complicated these games are to play, that was my motivation for behind spoon feeding it. So anyway, we get into the sectional stuff and the feature part of the games. And after you understood the basics.
    5:11
    And then, so he's playing along and he got a good, a decent hit in a section. I can't remember what it was. He got 100 and something. 20. 120. Okay. Yeah. Okay. 144. Yeah, one of those two. And then, so we're playing Golden Gate. and I think the next game or shortly after that he gets the gate lit on Golden Gate well that's the qualifier game for winning the Golden Game you don't win any credits with that purple section Nick covered that in one of his podcasts so he hits that he gets the purple section lit, gate lit then a rare event the teaser light for two and the goal comes on while the purple I could never get my game to do this I never had it happen in the wild I'd have one or the other lit but never both and it's like I'm like I'm standing back planting my feet and getting ready getting excited And so I coach him through the purple section, and he gets it. I'm like, crazy, cool, excellent. Hold the button down, and it dumps, and here's the golden game. And he hits the golden game for 200 or 300, I don't remember which. And credits are racking up.
    6:48
    And I've watched it in his face. it's just like a curtain came up and he looks at me I get it these things are cool as heck and a new bingo guy was born and so after that youthful exuberance takes over and Nick wants to get a bingo I don't remember if you had moved then or not. No. Okay, well. But I had an extra place to put one. And so he ends up talking to this guy that I had talked with years ago, been invited out to play, Lawrence something.
    7:41
    And Lawrence had games he wanted fixed. and he contacted me to fix them. It's like, man, I've got so much to do and I've got my own game stuff to do and I just don't want to do it. Well, I want to help the guy, but I'd rather help him,
    7:57
    talk him through it or, you know, that kind of thing. And so Lawrence wanted to unload some of his games. He had some in his game room. He told me over his garage with a pool table and then had others in his garage that were in waiting for restoration or repair or whatever.
    8:18
    And so Nick went over and bought his double up. Yep. And a gentle warning to him, you know, these aren't as much fun, but... The 20 holes. Yeah, the 20 hole.
    8:34
    And, but, you know, he's new and he got it for a decent price. And so, a project, and I had weekends to come over and help him get, you know, work on this and work on that. And finally, I think he's got it pretty much all bug free and looks nice sitting over there. Um, and I, uh, I had my golden, my bikini, which if you're bingo guys, most, most of them, a lot of them have seen my slideshow that's, uh, on Phil Hooper's site. Oh, and by the way, Phil Hooper, I looked at it the other day. Phil Hooper kind of updated it. It used to be on a link to it was on the front page of his or homepage. Yep. And now it's not. He's kind of just, you know, taking the older dated stuff. He moved you to the back, huh? Well, he put me in the overhaul section. So if you look in the overhaul, you'll find it. Which there's a link on the left-hand side.
    9:36
    Yes. And so that's how you can find the thing if you haven't seen it. It's a pretty interesting story. Captions tell a story. When I first did it, the captions were with the photographs. Now they're not. You kind of can't do the slideshow. and click from one to the next. Interesting story, I think, all the way through. And I had watched that. You had sent that to me, I think, before I picked up my first game. And you said, take a look at this. And actually, before I came out the first time, I think.
    10:09
    You sent it home with Molly or something. I don't know. But I had taken a look at that, and that got me interested, seeing what you had done there. And your bikini and Golden Gate are beautiful now. I mean, they are stunning.
    10:24
    I've seen a lot of bingos, and those two are the best-looking ones I've ever seen. Just to be humble about it? Well, no. I'm not. I really am not. Hey, it's all about me thing, but you are interviewing me, so I've got to. You've got to get that in somewhere, huh?
    10:42
    Somebody once said, it's okay to toot your horn once in a while. and then the other adage, analogy or whatever it is the nail that sticks his head out gets beat back down so you know you get a little bit of both I just like stuff, if I think something's cool I want to share it and a lot of cool stuff I've done a lot of cool stuff and seen a lot of cool stuff and I don't want to go hey look at me I did this and hey I did that I go hey look at this cool thing that I happen to be near and it's really not about me it's about whatever the cool thing is just like you with getting bit by bingos and pinballs going from no room to 11 games just wanted it done and so the slideshow it's a really cool story It's all true. Every bit of it's true.
    11:46
    And that's, you know, that's more about the game. It's about the game. It's not about me. It's about that particular machine. That bikini's number is 1518 off the production line. All the serial numbers, Matt, they were tampered with on the cabinet and the head and the stamp on the play field there by the light post the second third light post from the bottom on the shooter side or second from the top whatever that's where they stamped them that had been tampered with and I did a repair on that's it's shown on that slideshow but up at the top where the at the ball arch it had been painted over obviously they didn't want to take that nail punch and make a big rough spot so they just kind of painted i got that paint over and found out that number and then i was able to look at these other tampered numbers on the other thing and figure out that yes these are all good they're all good and i think if you take to tear down a place for you and you get all the wood off around the outside the bottom lower section where your instruction cards are at underneath there's another number anyway that said I got this thing all together and I'm gonna say I have no it very well could be the most famous bikini bingo pinball machine in the known universe because of its publicity. It was taken to the New York show in 2011, I think it was.
    13:38
    And I go with Jeffrey Lawton. He and I hang out at these shows. I met him, I can't remember, 2003 or 4 or something like that at my first York show. Anyway, that evening of the show, no, Saturday night after the show was over. That's what it was. We're in a hotel. We're supposed to go out and get dinner and Jeffrey is writing an article on his show for Penn Game Journal.
    14:13
    Jeffrey's been the bingo editor for this and I think it was coin slot and some other stuff other pin coin operated games for years before I met of course and we after we met we just clicked and we've been friends ever since we'll call up and talk about stuff and not even mention pinball but he wrote this thing and then about a year later the pin game journal came out and And this is issue number 151, and it says it's dated September 2012.
    14:53
    And it's the write-up Jeffrey did on the show. Well, my bikini, you know, he's a bingo guy, so bingo. That was the only really cool bingo. It's got a lot of notoriety. It was a very popular game at that show. and he wrote an article about it and it shows pictures of it.
    15:19
    Vic Camp, I had been bragging on RGP. I said a little something about it. Hey, I just finished this restoration. I'm bringing it up to the show.
    15:28
    And so when on the way, apparently Vic Camp, who's a pretty well-known player, and I'd met him several years before and seen him a few times, talked on the phone. Good storyteller and listener and bingo player. He posted on RGP, Steve, set that, bring that thing, set it up and get that tilt bob set so I can shake it to victory. I'm going to bust it for 600.
    15:59
    And that's exactly what he did. And so this magazine article's got, you know, talks about the show. It talks about my game in particular. And Vic hitting it for his prophecy. His prophecy came true. He fulfilled it. Yeah, and it's like, holy cow. And so that's that thing, but that's kind of already known.
    16:29
    I think it's a great story, though. I do, too. I think it's an awesome story. And another story about York. there was the guy I bought my bikini from was in Lynchburg somewhere on Danny Leach's side hi Danny I had forwarded my first correspondence to Jeffrey and this quick little note here I identified myself.
    17:09
    I've read your book. Thank you so much for reading it. After reading it, I got so fired up, I had to play. Well, you can't find them to play. I didn't know any collectors. And so I put an ad on Mr. Pinball Classified and looking for a working bingo pinball, magic screen pinball machine within 300 miles of richmond or 200 i can't remember and uh
    17:41
    after a little while i got an answer from james say in uh lynchburg virginia and so we corresponded a little bit and he said i've got several and he listed them all off and i and he had golden gate he had a couple of mh miss america's a different different one miss america 75 a couple others and um the bounty i think he had a six car or two bikini golden gate i'm like golden gate that's why i used to play back in earls and i got some stories about playing at earls uh but anyway so I go up there, he tells me the price, and I'm not going to negotiate. I'm just, you know, guy's got to make a buck, I get it. I'm not going to get gypped. And so he wanted $300 for the Golden Gate and $200 for the bikini.
    18:41
    And the Golden Gate had a busted back glass, but they all worked with bugs. They had some bugs. And I went on and I said, I'm going to get the bikini. And part of this was reading stuff on Danny's site back then when it was still kind of new.
    19:02
    And we had Old Bingo's Forum. That thing was incredible. And then Nick never got to see it. Yeah, apparently it went down right before I got into videos. Well, I think it beat you by a couple of years or something. Oh, it did? Yeah, man. And it was, oh, holy cow. It was just an incredible amount of bingo information on that thing. I wish it had been archived.
    19:31
    I know a little bit of inside stuff on that. I can share it later or later episodes if you're willing to put up with me again.
    19:45
    So I think it was Vic Camp's inspiration talking about home use only, which is the you know preferred and I read it more than once it wasn't just Vicks it was coming Jeffrey stuff too and it could be in his book I don't have it memorized and so I got the bikini and oh god I was so happy this thing was on that milk a PC in a slideshow it was a just pretty poor she's filthy dirty work couldn't get that ball out of it anyway so I emailed Jeffrey this note thanking him for it, writing a book. I got so fired up to play I had to find one. I found this bikini, I got it home and well I've had back surgery. I can't pick up for so much. You know how much these things weigh a freaking ton. And so the head wasn't off of it. We had just slid it off that angle iron stand thing into the back of my pickup truck.
    20:49
    And I called a couple people over, neighbors and stuff, and while I was waiting for them, I ran an extension. I slid the thing out to the edge of the tailgate,
    20:59
    ran the extension cord, plugged it in, turned it on, and started playing it before I got it out of the truck. Couldn't wait. And, you know, bingo players shake a truck. or I was shaking the truck.
    21:13
    I was holding the game, but I was shaking the truck and I was tilting all the time, but I was playing, man.
    21:19
    It's cool. And so we got the thing in there, weighed a ton, showed the neighbors the inside of it. Oh, my God, look at this stuff. No wonder it's so heavy.
    21:28
    And so that's how I got the bikini. Well, a year later, Mr. Say contacts me. No, wait a minute. In between then, I went up and bought another game from the guy. It was a slugfest pitching bat. William Slugfest. It's, you know, got a DMV. It's a freaking fun game. If you like baseball, this thing is almost like being at the game. It's really good. Is that the only solid state pitching bat? I don't know. If I don't, it's the best one. you know if there's another this one is it's just really good really really good two-player it's just like holy everybody that played it liked it but it you know like a lot of pins it lost its sparkle after a while but i went out and bought that from him he contacted me he could have been i don't know how much later a little bit later on month or a year something a couple months or a here and Steve I want to get to some of these bingo's out of here here's what I got and I said well okay I wasn't really going for one but how much you want for the Golden Gate in the bounty and he fired back 100 bucks I said I'll give you 50. He said, okay.
    23:01
    So that's 50 a piece. And both of these work. Both of them have broken back glasses and there's so much dirt. That Golden Gate was the dirtiest game on the planet. So all three of the ones you bought had broken back glasses? Bikini did not. Bikini had good. It had a mirrored back glass.
    23:21
    But that ended up dying in the man shop because of the not being in constant climate control. So everything you've heard about that stuff is true. Yep.
    23:32
    Anyway, so we go. My friend Eddie and I went up to the show, York show that year. I can't remember. Actually, it's recorded on the pinball news show site, whichever year it is. I can't remember now. And we get up to the show and I'd already talked to Jeffrey. I knew what he was bringing. he brought a golden gate and a bounty to play and so we're playing those things and there's a picture on of Jeffrey and I standing in front of his two games the bounty and the golden gate and I think he was asking 11 or 12 for the gate and 14 or 16 for the bounty 100 and so after the show Eddie and I take a trip back to Virginia but we go down to 81 so we're going to Lynchburg. It was a long freaking ride and we were getting on each other's nerves by then but it wasn't personal it was just road crankiness and so we get there and we buy these two games for 50 bucks I thought we knew the deal and so I cleaned up Golden Gate a little bit tweaked it, got it working 100% and played it in a dirty fashion for a long time. I put a back glass on it, paper sandwich back glass.
    25:03
    And so I thought that was a pretty cool story. Here we are, we're playing games at the show and then we go back and buy them for 50 bucks. Load them up. Now Eddie took you down and with intentions of you know, getting a back glass, which can't. Bounty's back glasses are elusive. I do know that Franz over in the Netherlands has a warehouse, and he's got a small box of five or six of them, something like that he told me about.
    25:42
    But he's reluctant to ship them, and it's a valuable item. I understand. Yeah. And so he ended up getting a paper one from Chris Dade, And so this bounty working, but needing, you know, some work.
    26:01
    It 100% sat in storage waiting for me. Eddie wasn't going to do anything with it. And I said, well, you know, if you don't want it, I'll take it. Look, this guy contacted, oh, that's another story. I'm going to pause that story right there. And that's how this bounty that Nick ended up buying a bounty. I'm sitting right next to it. It's right there. And he's got it working. It's his favorite. Is it your favorite game or is it your favorite bingo? It's the one that I play the most. And it's certainly my favorite bingo at the moment. But, of course, I haven't played them all. So it's hard to say. And I like it. I would say that I've never played a bingo that I didn't like. so there is that you need to get around a little more of that yeah I think so they're all interesting for different reasons some of them will lose their sparkle Nick sent me an email the other day said hey there's on Greg's list there's a six card and a bonanza and I told you know and he said I'm thinking about making an offer and I you know this is he's sending me this because he wants me to know. So it's not really an unsolicited editorial comment. It's just, you know, he knows I play more variety than he has. I am not a six card guy. I know Vic is. I know there's a guy just outside of Richmond that's got, I think he's got six or eight games, all of them six card in his garage near a friend of mine's house. I have not met the I think we've corresponded a couple times on electronic mail, but it's not a six-card guy. I like it because it's bingo. Well, variety is the spice of life, Steve. Yes, I get it. I understand. And everybody doesn't think in lockstep. That's true. You know? That's the way it is. Everybody likes different stuff.
    28:05
    And so between that, I said, you know, you get them. We could probably end up getting a six card, but I don't think the bananas will last.
    28:16
    The sparkle is going to wear off quick. Yeah, if I was to get a Magic Squares game, I'd probably get a nightclub or a showtime, something like that.
    28:26
    May I recommend one? Because of Cosmetics' gameplay in Sun Valley. oh yeah I played that at the York show yeah that one's got those magic screen it's got the magic lines and magic squares and you know it's pick a play I think it's pick a play can't remember there's the book um I can't keep up with all of it some stuff comes right out other stuff doesn't and uh So if you can find one, I would think that'd be, you'd get the most fun out of it. That one's got staying power. You can move every number on the back glass if you have it lit up to F. Pardon me, correct. That right And so I wish you would consider that one It also got one of the most beautiful stencils I think Yeah that what I saying man And the trouble with that stuff is you get a game line that you really can't see the artwork as well. Everybody knows that already. But even the front is nice.
    29:46
    So, if you were thinking about a Magic Corner game, that would be one that's in my line. of wouldn't mind owning, but I'm kind of stopped. You look at that thing. It's pretty. We're in Jeffrey's book here now.
    30:04
    And is that Joe Joyce's? From Jeffrey's collection. It's from Jeffrey's? Mm-hmm. Okay. Joe Joyce is a friend of Jeffrey's. He lives out in Cincinnati near Jeffrey. I've talked with him a few times, corresponding him a little bit on electronic mail. Nice guy. And I'm wondering if maybe we can give him an interview or two. Sure. At some point.
    30:30
    Skiing in swimsuits, that's a good idea. Hey, I love it. It is a fun game, though. That would be, if you want a magic screen game, I'd say that's about the tops for him.
    30:49
    That's what I think, anyway. That's just an opinion. Everybody's got different likes and dislikes. Yesterday was an interesting day.
    31:02
    I've got an article here that I wrote for Pin Game Journal. And those folks out there that subscribe to Pin Game Journal know you're not getting any magazines. Jim's Health has been an issue. It was for a while. Clay Harrell took over, wrote a few. And then they end up locking horns or something according to RGP.
    31:27
    So we're not getting any pin game journals. I hope Jim is working through whatever's wrong with him.
    31:33
    But I met him at Expo several years ago. We spent, I don't know, a half hour or something talking about this and that. I said I got an idea of if you're willing I'd like to write a article or a couple of them on bingo pinball he said because he knew that Jeffrey and I were okay you know friends well I told him that he didn't know it and he's like yeah I got the blessing So I started writing that and I was going to write a little article on the trip Jeffrey and I took down to Hugh Cone, a.k.a. the old binger place as well.
    32:27
    That article I started writing and it was normal pinball versus bingo pinball. You know, it's from a player's perspective.
    32:41
    And I've got that article here that I started writing and I never finished it. I had most of it in there, but it was a jumbled up mess and unorganized. So yesterday I spent a few hours trying to get it in coherent order. but I had yesterday was a bingo pinball day but I didn't play at all earlier in the week I had been contacted by somebody that just got their first game and this happens often not that I'm I am not an expert I do not know everything about these things but I do know people that do but I know a lot way more than I surprise myself often.
    33:29
    And so this one guy was, I got this, new game, he's got a roller derby, and he was talking about it. Was it the guy we met at York?
    33:43
    No. Okay. I don't think it was. This guy's name was Greg, starts with an O, and I can't remember because I'm getting older.
    33:52
    Anyway, so I helped him, I gave him some advice on his stuff and I think I got him going a little bit not much it was just lamp oriented mostly and I said if you need I'll try and help and so anyway and right after that I got an email from a guy who has several write ups on Danny Leach's site he lives in Denver his name is Phil wait a minute Bogoma is that it yeah ok Phil we're going to call him Phil Hooper he's a nice guy super nice guy he contacted me about getting some of my reproduction lockdown bars well then I told him sorry man Dennis O'Dell bought my last two several months ago um if I make another batch of these things there's no labor of love in it they were labor of love in it for restoring my game so I made a few extra but anyway so we got talking I said I've read your stuff you played like I used to in the old days um and I can get into that at some point But anyway, so I told Phil, I said, I'd love to chat with you. I've got a new bingo friend. Is it okay to send me your phone number and a good time to call? And he did, and so it was yesterday. Well, he's in Denver. I'm here. So anyway, after I've worked on this magazine article I got here, I talked with him, called him, and we were on the phone for an hour. Now, Phil said he'd come on your podcast thing soon. Oh, yeah. You've got to figure out how to get it to sound right on the phone.
    36:01
    Jeffrey told him about it. He wants to come or play or talk or whatever. I don't think he's coming. Maybe we'll get him to come. I don't know. Well, that would be excellent. and anyway so Phil was really involved with Old Binger's Forum he was one of the moderators oh okay and he did a lot of he's a Phil's an accountant and he did a bunch of digitizing SI cards and other stuff and he and Phil were collaborating on back glass scanning and stuff now when I went down with Jeffrey and I went down to the news place years ago I got the videos of
    37:02
    Phil or Hugh showed me a full-size bounty scanning the quality wasn't quite what it ought to be. A little fuzzy looking. And it wasn't on anything you could shine light through.
    37:16
    But he's got that file. He said he sent me a smaller version of it. And I said something to him about your bounty having one of Chris Dade's in there. And he said, well, I can send it to him if he's a computer kind of guy. He can clean it up and use it.
    37:32
    And so that'd be a... That's another topic for another time. Yeah, I mean, I've done that before for other games, and it'll... Well, he's got one that's almost done, so if you feel like that one's not suiting you, it looks okay to me, I don't know.
    37:50
    It's just not quite as bright as it could be, I think. I think if you put it on vinyl, or not vinyl, or mylar. There's a mylar material that I printed mine on, and that seems to work best for the color. Yeah, I figured it would be a little cleaner looking, smoother. Yeah. anyway he said he was willing to do that cool and he'd be willing to be interviewed on his show he had 31 bingos at one time he's down to 7 now he's doing a basement remodel and trying to get that invited me out so he'd be willing to come on your podcast Jeffrey I contacted Danny Leach he said yes and I said well cool can I talk to you Saturday and you know through email and I didn't get an answer so I didn't call him but I was doing other two and so old forgot and contacted Phil Hooper he he passed he said I can't finish a complete sentence all this stuff on his website I guess you don't have to finish complete sentence you can go back and retype Dennis O'Dell, famous pinball guy, man. He's all over IPD, all over the bingos stuff, been around,
    39:15
    but he didn't like talking on the phone. Now, that said, I've talked to him. He didn't want to talk to me on the phone, but I talked to him on the phone anyway a couple times, and he did great. I don't understand it, but that's Dennis, and super nice guy, super nice guy.
    39:31
    Phil's a super nice guy. Joe Shop out in Utah. Oh, sorry, don't hit this thing. Joe Shop out in Utah.
    39:44
    Super nice guy. I've talked with so many of them. And so we get a few more stories in on these things. Yeah. But I was getting back to this article here.
    40:03
    I've got most of it written, and I'd like to read it to everybody since it doesn't seem like we're going to get a pin game journal out anytime soon.
    40:17
    And it's interesting stuff. Now, this was written to go in Pin Game Journal, which is not a bingo pin game journal. It's a pin game journal, so most of the guys are pinball related, not that much into bingos. And so this was kind of written with the intent of filling them in a little bit, trying to get our hobby to not die off.
    40:40
    And so here we go. I'm just going to read it. Read what I got in here and I may add a little bit once in a while.
    40:54
    Pinball is entertainment. Yes, it's a business for some, a hobby for others, and some an obsession. But it still falls in the entertainment category.
    41:07
    We play pinball to be entertained. We get a thrill out of it. The thrills in normal pinball come from the action. The thrills from playing bingo pinball come from drama. Both normal pinball and bingo pinball players experience several emotions during gameplay anticipation, joy, satisfaction, disappointment, frustration, and sometimes downright anger.
    41:44
    Tension and concentration tend to magnify these feelings. However, bingo players get to experience a few more feelings.
    41:57
    While we are playing, we can often feel puzzled and indecisive. And I guess the hardcore gamblers that got on these things would feel the desperation and possibly even depression.
    42:14
    But the most notable feeling a bingo pinball player can get that normal pinball players don't is pure elation when we make a big hit for a payout. Now, I own both types of pins, and yes, destroying the ring is a thrill.
    42:33
    But that's nothing close to playing a bingo. And you got to set. And then you pass the number needed for a big hit. And the number's at the bottom of the play field.
    42:49
    And you pass that number two or three times, making it into the ball return. You try for it again. And you're getting tenser every time this ball goes down. and then the ball's coming down one last time. And skillfully getting it past all that stuff one last time with a well-timed nudge and landing the ball into the needed hole for a big hit. Holy cow, I mean, guys, everything you've got is tensed up. I call these drama balls. If you play, you know exactly what I mean. then there was the satisfying glory of calling a shop owner over and having them count out the folding money on a playfield glass while the replays you just won are clicking off though I guess normal pinball tournament players get a taste of what we bingo players had all the time back then now in general Well, why I think normal pinball players are reluctant or dismiss bingos is here, and this is just my observation and opinion. Look, America was once an agrarian-based society. It moved to an industrial-based one. To me, today's society seems more entertainment-based. Pretty much everything you do is on a screen. You're looking at your computer screen, you're listening to this thing on your pod or streaming or whatever.
    44:31
    It's just a guess, let's do my observation. And I believe many of these younger folks being raised with a lot of television exposure, it's constant flashing from image to image conditions them to always expect things to be moving. That everything's supposed to happen fast. and this is a big contributor to their lack of patience.
    44:55
    I believe this lack of patience is the number one reason for them thinking bingo pinball is dull because bingo pinball is a slower pace.
    45:06
    And to do well, you have to pause and think. Normal pinball entertainment is playing a game with no real ending other than ones like Hayburners and a few other time games. You can make a replay, beat the high score, but the game keeps going until all the balls have drained, and then it's game over, not game completed.
    45:33
    With bingo pinball, every game has an ending. Most games on the same table are different, plus it can be beaten. Now Playing strategies Now this would go for Any pinball Flipper Bingo On location or even home use for that matter Here's how I play and why I start with caution It's a new game Walked up to a new game I start with caution I try a single game To check how the game plays How lively the rubber is I note the pitch of the play field. I see if switches and coils are working. And last but not least, probably first, is the tilt sensitivity.
    46:24
    Same holds true for bingos, especially the tilt. Other than plunge speed, well-timed bumps, pulls, shakes, or doing nothing at all are the only way to control the ball. With normal pinball and bingo pinball, knowing how much you can manhandle the table is essential for getting the most out of the ball in play.
    46:51
    I believe bingo players tend to be more in tune with this aspect of gameplay since it's all we've got to work with. On normal pinball, bingo players may often make a shot or save a shot. Others may miss due to this instilled reaction. Bingo players usually have learned how to bop the heck out of the table once and have gazed how long they need to wait to let the pendulum rest. although spending time on any pinball machine you can develop a six pence for the tilt pendulum swing rhythm and are able to bring in another well-timed nudge before that pendulum settles down and do that without tilting um i have a tilting problem and i like it actually Normal pinball strategy can be keeping the ball alive as long as possible, going for a replay, going for a high score, activating a mode, and getting into multiball for racking up high scores.
    48:10
    Concentrating on completing modes and multiballs when equipped to reach those elusive wizard modes. However, any way you play a normal flip for pinball, they are all designed with pre-established rule sets to follow. Other than an occasional pick this or pick that, you must follow this one rule set. And if all goes well, we do all this just to drain at the end. On the other hand, for the most part, bingo pinball has a variety of rule sets. You are able to choose different ways to play different games. The bingo pinball player has decisions to make all the way through. You start building your game by playing the machine itself,
    49:02
    not feeding the table the first ball. Savvy players, now this is the kind of stuff that I did back when I was playing for keeps back in the day, and many of them did too. although I saw players that went for the big stuff straight away.
    49:19
    Savvy players fed the least amount of credits to obtain the best odds and features. Since they are engineered to give out less when the odds and features have been activated, there is a learning process to this.
    49:34
    Knowing how many credits to use is applying your first play strategy. then the player let me stop there and just add it up a little bit how I played for keeps back in the day after I learned what I was doing mostly and I didn't have any money as a kid 15, 16, 17 something like this I had to be careful with it I was playing the gate Golden Gate and my ideal game cost 15 cents, I would hit the red button, restart it, hit the blue button, get a double jump,
    50:21
    guaranteed odd, and then I'd hit the blue button again. And if I, my ideal game, I'd get another double jump on the red odds. because that top row on the magic screen was easiest to land in. Now, that's 15 cent gain.
    50:45
    And the numbers were relatively easy to get to 1, 2, 9, 11, 15. 15 being a little more difficult because of the post-it.
    50:59
    That said, that was the money maker. four in a row with 96 games. And that's the way he made you money. I would use house money, little hits, get up a few games, and then I'd try for some bigger stuff.
    51:15
    But usually he made the money on four in a row. Now this is, if you go back and read, go to Danny's site and read Phil Bogoma's stuff.
    51:29
    That's how he played. because it's just like, you know, it's cool. You could tell he knew what he was doing. So that's part of the reason I haven't converted my machines to pre-play is it makes me think about how much money is going in versus what the return will be. So like on Bounty, I typically don't get the odds above 200. It just costs too much money. because my reflex units are hooked up.
    52:05
    So that's playing the machine there. I've just learned that it's much harder to get those extra jumps after about 200.
    52:17
    It will, you know, they all get their own nuances. Some of them, and that reflex unit plays into it. I didn't know that stuff when I was playing for keeps back in the day. I just noticed it. I'd never even seen the inside. The operator would come in. And, hey, can we see in this thing? Well, it was in the back room of a diner. Diner's still there. It's a Pizza Hut thing now. The typical looking diner. It was open for breakfast and lunch. Martin Earl Perks. He was the owner. You know, he's had a dirty apron on.
    52:51
    He's a nice guy. Anyway, we couldn't get to see the inside of the back box because the operator would come in and check your meter. And I said, can I see inside the thing? And so he said, what's that thing? I said, that's a tilt. I said, can you make it so it doesn't tilt so easy? He lowered it for us. It was cool. Wow, that's a nice operator. Yeah, he lowered it a little bit. You see, you know. Anyway, so that's it. I don't know if Earl knew that.
    53:20
    So anyway, back to my article. Okay, knowing how many credits to use is applying your first play strategy. The player must decide which set of numbers they will most likely be able to hit to win the most credits.
    53:40
    This is usually based on their layout both on the play field and the bingo card. Some numbers are easier, some aren't.
    53:49
    Strategy and decisions are needed for every ball played. this is where it slows down if you don't know how to play the game this is probably what scares most not scares, just bores younger folks away from it alright, granted strategy, granted you could just shoot the balls and see what happens if this could be called a strategy and I guess it would be the same one used for slot machine or lottery ticket the hope I get lucky strategy involves no skill No real decisions to make other than, you know, just dropping some money or not. When playing normal pinball or bingo pinball, you notice trends in several aspects of each individual pinball table.
    54:42
    By this, I mean not only how the ball bounces, but with what frequency. Oh, well, this would be more bingo. bingo related. It's not fully edited.
    54:58
    By this I mean not only how the ball bounces, but with what frequency the odds and features activate. If you play one bingo pinball table for a little while, you'll see vague patterns in what is likely to light up and notice other things get harder to light when this is already on. I know I need to spend away too many credits to get that when I've already got this lit. What you were just saying. So, it's best to stop feeding it and start the second part of gameplay. Shooting the balls.
    55:37
    Now, your second session of decision making starts. You check the back glass. Note where the highest scoring number combinations are. There are always several to choose from. Strategy for playing each ball has many facets. Some include are needed number holes mostly near the top of the play field. If they are, it's usually a good thing since this location means you don't have to get past a bunch of other obstacles to land there. Next would be if there's a post just above the needed numbered hole. The post obviously blocks the ball from just plunking right in on its way down.
    56:32
    The pitch of the play field can affect these decisions too. A slight pitch means the ball is slower.
    56:41
    Steeper pitch, faster. I've talked with players that like steeper pitch. I can get past all this upper stuff down here where more numbers are at. Well, that makes sense. That's their way they play. I like a little more control. A slower ball means more control. You can transfer the ball.
    57:00
    Slowing it up with a well-timed tug just as the ball meets a bumper or adding energy to the ball with a bump at the same time and a bump of proper strength to either make the ball all the way to the needed hole or keep it away from an unneeded one or as a setup for a second bump to make your needed number.
    57:29
    But this setup bump, and I do it a lot, can be risky. There's kind of a sixth sense with this stuff, this needed. it comes into play because you're flirting with a possible tilt.
    57:47
    This is where your first few game tests will have helped out, since you've learned the general speed of the ball with the table, play, field, and pitch. You know the liveliness of the rubbers, rebound, and the sensitivity of the tilt.
    58:05
    All those are just little nuances in how I play. Not playing the machine, playing the balls. Now, here's a big difference. One of the biggest differences in bingo pinball versus normal pinball. In normal pinball games, you don't want to drain the ball and play.
    58:31
    An exception may be answering the call of nature, or someone yelling fire or even a hot babe hitting on you. I can see wanting to bring for that.
    58:44
    But when playing bingo you often try to grain if your ball is past the needed number on the play field And so here I made a note stop speak about selecting what to choose for and to shoot now these things were really well thought out Don Hooker did all his probability stuff and he if it's written down somewhere I wish somebody dig it out he talked about engineering probabilities on things and And that would include play field layout stuff. And when you've got a bingo game going and you've got odds in this color are nice and you've got a screen and you've got numbers landing in holes. and you know you've got an automatic set here. Say I've already got a set, a set being two, you need one more for a hit.
    59:51
    But that number's a hard one to get. And then you've got another set also. But that number's easier to get. The easier number doesn't pay as much. what do you do I like that head kind of scratching stuff man I think it's cool and it shows you how well thought out these things are this is all player related the longer you play the better you know the game the more you're you know easier the decision comes for you now that said it's a different thing when you're in the wild and there's money on the line and I always played conservative. I very rarely played for extra balls. Very rarely. That's a good way to lose money. It is. At least that's what they were designed to do. Yeah. And so, that extra ball play,
    60:55
    that's like another game. You still got the same game up, but now you're back to playing the machine. You've decided, okay, you've got to keep count of how much you got invested in the game. Right.
    61:12
    And it's the payout worth. Now, my wife loves to play these things. She doesn't play my normal flipper games. She plays the bingoes. And if there was a way I could set this thing up, she just got all the extra balls straight away and saved her a lot of time because she didn't give it. You know, she'll cope with extra balls when she doesn't even have a set. But it's all for fun because it's on free. Now, that said, these things are gambling machines.
    61:45
    And I gamble once in a while. And I do it for fun. And it's not much money. and I'm in it for thrilling entertainment for a little while. And the gambling I do now is I bet on horses once in a while. I haven't done it in a long time and way overdue. It's fun. It's a thrill. And I get the biggest thrill in horse racing. If my horse gets close and he's right up in there and then loses, I've got a big charge out of it. I think it's fun. And if he wins, it's just a bonus. It was like when I played bingo back for keeps. I like poker, too. But, you know, I engaged both of these rarely.
    62:34
    I savored the buildup and anticipation of what's to come and what could be. Back in the bingo days, for some, gambling was the, the gambling issue was a devastating device. I know a guy, I met a guy, and I got stories about him, too. and people he connected me with that will close the loop on a lot of stuff, including your bingo, Nick.
    63:03
    This guy's name was Bill. Started with an M. Last name started with an M. He lives over on the other side of the James River here in Richmond.
    63:14
    And he used to play them. Well, he didn't play. He gambled on them. And he gambled hard. And I told him I had, you know, I've got some games, man, you want to play? He said, no, I don't want to get anywhere near one of those things now because he's over his gambling addiction. He lost paychecks in these things.
    63:36
    For him, it wasn't the challenge of the game, it was the gambling. And he lost so much, it's still a rotten pot for him. Kind of sad, man, because I think they're fun games. Now, sure, I'd rather hit than miss. for me and like most bingo collectors today is the tension and thrills of the ride where the most sport is.
    63:59
    The finish or crescendo be it win or crash and burn are added punctuation marks to what I view as an enjoyable ride. My guess is most people are like me able to view gambling as an entertainment pastime and realize that going overboard on anything isn't usually a good thing.
    64:23
    And so people that view these things as only as gambling devices, they're missing, they're just missing a cool game.
    64:31
    The checker versus chess thing, it's so true. Between that and the I want it all, I want it now, and I want it fast stuff, aspect of modern society, I guess.
    64:48
    The other big part of it. Now, I got some general pinball related notes. Playing at home versus playing on location.
    64:58
    We know most pinball games were designed to have adjustable features for gameplay. Factory settings were for location play in order to make money. I believe in this age there's more pinball tables in homes than there are out in the real world while making money I'm pretty sure of that I'm not positive but it seems to me I used to see them everywhere when I was younger now they're almost no place when in a home setting we have an option of adjusting these settings that were built into the game to make the games more fun-oriented rather than money-making-oriented. Now, this is a disputed topic. You've got people that, you know, I keep mine on factory settings. That's how they came out, and this is a true statement. However, the game was designed with adjustable features.
    66:00
    Adjusting these features to your personal liking isn't taboo. It was designed for it. So I say it's okay to be comfortable with knowing you're playing the game as it was designed, even if it's not on a factory setting.
    66:18
    Again, this is personal taste stuff. And if you disagree with me, get in line. Most people in the world don't even know I exist.
    66:31
    Well, thank you, Steve. That's my article with a little bit of embellishment. and it's a shame about pin game journal. Well I'm still hoping for the best there. I do wish him the best of luck, best of health. I wish somebody would take over, it's not going to happen. um but you know that is what it is yeah and so Nick you've come a long way in a short amount of time I don't think it's been three years or as close to it or somewhere around there somewhere in that neighborhood yeah yeah I mean that's okay I've never even heard of one to have and two thinking of getting a third.
    67:24
    I told Nick after he got bit and him being younger than me, how old are you? 32. I'm 57. He needs to carry the torch to younger people. Bingoes are a big part of history. and this is what this podcast is about. Yeah.
    67:54
    And notice Nick's kind of, he's a technical kind of guy, works on computers and that kind of thing. I'm a nerd, you can say.
    68:04
    Well, you're a nice nerd and I don't think of you that way. You can think of yourself however you want. You're probably right. and so he's going to try to preserve history just for this thing just like Danny's doing that said I watched all this information that was on old binger's forum vanish and had it been transferred on some kind of like Google appears to be connected to the Earth's core somehow and nothing will ever disappear. If it had been connected to that, that's good. But Phil's site one day Phil's going to pass on. What's going to happen to his site? What's going to happen to all that stuff? Is somebody going to take it over? I don't know. it would be great to find a place to put this stuff. I don't mean like screw it in a crate and take it off into the warehouse where Indiana Jones and the Ark of the Covenant. Top men.
    69:29
    And, you know, to be found later. That said, it's just pinball, and frankly most people in the world don't give a flying wazoo about it anyway. that's true but you know I find these games I didn't understand them at all when I came over to your house I had never seen one before you patiently explained it you let me take a break from it come back several times and then when I finally got it I wanted to preach to the world you know shout it from the rooftops and I have a ton of fun with these games. I'm able to put in all kinds of time playing them because they're in my house. And every game is unique that I play on Bounty. I mean, you'd think that the feature set would get old after a while. Like with any flipper game, you know what to shoot for, you know what you're doing, but every single ball is completely different on a bingo. And every game, therefore, is totally different. they are it's fascinating I told Nick when we met I have a gift for understatement I have a gift for overstatement too but usually it's understatement if I say something's cool I'm holding back and that's on a lot of different stuff um I'm a my first pinball show after I bought bikini and corresponded with Jeffrey I think the Allentown show was due to come up and I asked him if he was going to that he said he didn't go to that attend attend that show he attended the York show and so I decided I'm going you know I'm gonna get my my book signed from him and and I did no one up met him in so I head off to my first pinball show it was cool there's a bunch of neat stuff and I found the bingo's he had a he told me he was bringing can can and a silver sales and I hadn't played can-can at that time and so I was looking forward to it well when I got there somebody had bought it it was gone but silver sales was there he didn't end up he didn't sell it but we spent a lot of time on it playing now we would trade off. He'd play a game, I'd play a game. He'd play a game, I'd play a game.
    72:25
    And I had built up a nice game. Could have been an okay I hit. Red letter. And I had nice odds, credits on the machine to burn up. You can't get paid off, so might as well burn them and I had I was trying to I had these yellow super section and I think the odds were at 450 well I got three in the yellow super section so you have 240 replays yes because the super section two counts as three three counts as four four counts as five well I tried and tried and I did that with extra ball I don't remember I think I got I think I got three of them and then went after extra balls now did you push the R button before you went for extra balls?
    73:40
    No, I got a strategy on that when we're playing free play. I don't collect until afterward. After I get awarded the ball.
    73:52
    Because they're free. But if you've got games on it, it doesn't matter. If there's games on the replay, I'll go on and collect it. Because back in the old day, I didn't do that, and I had hit a hit, and I said, oh, I'll collect after this shot. And then I tilted the thing and lost. Oh, I was pissed. And so I'm playing this thing, and I can't even get the third extra ball. It won't come. You know, I'm getting a hernia.
    74:17
    An extra ball. Trying to get an extra ball. And it won't give it up. And finally, you know, it's like, okay, whatever. I'm done.
    74:28
    And he's like, you know, he didn't want to play. He was talking with his wife, Carol, before she passed. and so I get another game build that up a little bit and I shoot and the first ball landed in the game 20 what it landed in the 24 the number I needed for 500 you see what you just did he's like that's it dig it I said that's like you know yeah we're okay and that was kind of cool he feed me straight out of the gate and he still does it and when I played back in the day I was very conservative like I said 15 cents a quarter or something like that would be it. This was on the corner of Forest Hill and Richmond Jays on the corner of Beaufort Road and Forest Hill and the place was called the Village Inn and Earl ran the thing. There was a machine in the back it was a silver sails cabinet with a golden gate glass in it and the games have the same feature so yeah interchangeable back glass silver sails does have a circuit or two that tightens it up but the gate doesn't have and so there's a gas station Bullock's Amoco was right behind there. And one of the mechanics is a skinny black guy. He's real dark skinned. He's a real nice guy. He used to work on our cars and stuff, family cars. But he would come in there at lunchtime. And he was one of those players that fed the machine. This guy knew the machine. He could build up stuff. I never fully understood all the features involved back then. And, you know, being a kid that pretends like he knows it all, I wouldn't ask anyone.
    76:35
    But he'd get in there and he'd build up a game. And he would wait for us to play or cash out. And I knew he was on lunch break, time schedule, but he'd build up a big game. And that sucker'd win money. He went almost all the time. He was good at it. Wow. and he would do stuff. He'd have a set for a big hit.
    77:01
    And what he would do is he'd have a hit. Say you get a decent hit, a three in a section. And the odds of when you get another ball in a color, it's worth it sometimes to feed and get it. he would not collect and use those credits to go for an extra ball. He would drop quarters in. And this was a quarter, and he'd give you five credits.
    77:37
    It had that feature added to it. And I never understood why until I owned one. He knew about the reflex unit that Walter Burnett invented, or Walter, or Bernie, whatever they called him. Bennett invented that in the late 30s or early 40s, whenever it was, for those first games.
    78:06
    He knew that if he racked it up, he would have a harder chance of getting the extra ball. and that man played, he played good. He was the best player I ever saw back in the wild.
    78:22
    And there were guys that would come in there and they were so tense and they'd play and they'd all play for big games. And I played small. They would build up and try and use house money.
    78:32
    And one time I was in there and I was milking it because I like playing and being there by myself for hours playing just, you know, one nickel at a time or two just to play the game money when it money when he was a bonus wasn't it one time and it was a line it was in a back room it was a machine was sitting over in a corner and he walked in the back room door the machine was all the way to your right in the back wall corner there's a couple of freezers right next to the door where you walked into the back room it was narrow if you went to the left of the restrooms over there and then there's a back door and there's just three freezers, a bingo pinball machine and a rack where there was supplies. This rack prevented the operator from getting the glass open to show us the insides. So we're sitting in a corner and we're playing this game and sometimes there'd be people lined up waiting to play. You know, I've waited in that line plenty of times and watched other people play. and I'm playing one day and this guy says,
    79:44
    it's a huge extra ball. Go for it. I said, it's not worth it. You know, he wanted us to play. And so I got, I said, I make money on four in a row. He said, nobody gets four in a row. And I did my 9-1-2-11. You hit your combo there. And he's watching, and I just turned over and looked at him and pushed the R button while I was looking at him and collected, you know. That felt good. Here's the machine. Yours. And that was a good memory. Now, that said, that Golden Gate, I love that machine. Earl closed it, too.
    80:28
    And, you know, that's when he shut down and went home. Oh, so you had to get there in the morning. Yeah. It was morning or lunchtime, closed on a weekend. A lot of state cops go in there and it used to make me nervous. They'd come in here for breakfast, you know, in a trooper uniform and they'd go in the restroom and they'd look at us over there playing the bingo. and it made me nervous and Earl would caution us, you know. Anytime they were there, we didn't call him.
    80:59
    And there was a time, I remember coming back in there one afternoon and I go in and Earl says, The machine's broken, Steve.
    81:15
    And I'm like deflated. I was so psyched I hadn't played in a little while, you know. and I said, what happened?
    81:26
    He said, the glass broke. I'm like, what the hell? And I go back in there and I look and the playfield glass is laying all down and everything. Man, well, there were some guys in the neighborhood that used to play and this, who had turned me on to the things.
    81:45
    One guy we used to call Jelly. and jelly talk like this he would talk like this you know he was kind of trying cool and he made smoke he'd pull a cigarette away real quick kind of guy uh and he blonde hair kind of short um kind of dry he looked shifty but he was pretty nice for the most part i like him and we'd hang out and party. And he'd hang out with this other guy,
    82:17
    and his name was Chuck. Now, Chuck had glasses, and he had kind of talked a little funny. It's almost like he slobbered. And so we would get... Jelly's name was James. I don't know how he ended up getting Jelly. They called him Jelly. Hey, Jelly. because they use this tone. Now, Chuck was slobber jaws. Now, these two guys hung out because Chuck would get talking so much, he'd get so excited he'd have to, you know, wipe his lips all the time. And so that's why we call them slobber jaws. So it was Jelly and Slobber. Now, Jelly and Slobber, you had to watch them. They liked to play. Slobber liked, Slobber loved going after the time tree. He loved hitting, his favorite column was 1, 19, 24, 23, and 8.
    83:15
    He'd go after those. Jelly was a, I loved it when Jelly hit. If he made a hit, his hand, I mean that ball, I think by the time the ball fell in a hole and the light lit on the back glass, His finger was pushing the R button. He was like, and instant. Didn't want to lose it. And it was cool looking. And I kind of adopted that and did it often until I tilted.
    83:53
    Anyway, so these guys are trying to figure out a way to cheat the machine, you know. And they're coming up with, well, you can drill a hole here, you can drill a hole there. And it turns out it's clad you can't. Well, they got the idea of a little at a time trying to dig a hole in the playfield glass or something. And they would work on it a little bit at a time for weeks. Well, it's tempered glass. You can't do this. So you got a little scratch going. And one day they said, you know, we got sick of trying to work on this a little at a time.
    84:32
    And that's how it broke. They told Earl that, you know, we just bopped it and the glass broke. And Earl, you know, Earl believed it. He wasn't back there. He was up there cooking.
    84:47
    And so I had gone in and there's the machine. It's broken. And there's all this glass laying everywhere. And I'm looking at it and I'm disappointed because I wanted to play, you know. And so I'm like, okay, well, I'll just sit here for a minute because I ain't in there. and I'll lament and I know the machine's going to go out and get chopped and cleaned out and all that.
    85:12
    And, you know, standing there looking, adjusting to it, I can't play the game. It's busted. I don't know when it's coming back. Woe is me. You know, so I'm standing there looking at the thing and I roll back in the diner and I keep trying to get an idea. I want a pinball out of this thing they're listed in the holes there's a bunch of glass around I dug out a pinball out of one of the holes that wasn't easy either I can't remember what I used could have been a pocket knife I don't remember a dime or something and I got the pinball out and I'm like alright Earl well the game's going away I don't know when it's coming back but I'll check in, you know. I think it took, I don't know how long, two weeks. It could have been three weeks, four weeks. It seemed like seven million years, man. And because there were other games around. There was one down the other end of Beaver Road at the ESO station. It could have been Exxon by then. but you didn't know the guys they wouldn't let you play them and I saw them a lot they wouldn't even let you play them if you weren't playing for you no uh uh really yeah and they were like that several different places there was one over here in Richmond they had a whole line of them but they'd have them out in the open yes if they didn't know you were cool they thought you could be a plant You know, like they do cigarette sings with Boy Scouts and stuff. But if they're not paying you off.
    87:05
    That's what they did. Yeah, yeah. They got run out of there. No, you can't play that. He's running away with a kid. And no, you can't play anything. I thought my middle name was No.
    87:21
    Anyway, so I can't play. And then finally, I go in there. I actually used to go in there and eat, too. So I go in there for lunch or breakfast. I can't remember which. I used to get fried in there for breakfast. It was killer, man.
    87:40
    Sounds healthy. Oh, that was a place that you didn't leave toast on your plate, man. You took a bite out of that toast. because I'm pretty sure if you didn't, it would end up on somebody else's plate.
    87:58
    Anyway, so I get back in there, and the game is back. And it's the same game, and Earl says, I walk in. He says, Steve, the game is back. I'm doing a dance, and he says, well, come on back. I tell you, you did some stuff to it. I come back and it all shiny And it you know the rebound rubbers aren all yellow looking now they all white and pretty and he said now the guy he went through it made sure everything is working right, but he added a circuit that activates the red letter game, but only when you press the feature, the green button features thing. It won't do it on the other ones, but if you're playing for features, you can get that red letter game awarded. Now that said, back then, I didn't know how to collect. I didn't know I was supposed to hold the freaking button down. And so, this stuff would come on and I didn't know what I was doing. And I could have won more money if I had, I guess, or who knows. I could have spent more. But anyway, so that game would do that. And wherever the green odds were, if you played the green button, you got a chance of getting the red letter game. And I used to get it. And I think that one guy that was giving me a hard time for playing was in one time, and I said something about, you know, I'd get it up to, I'd get the green odds up to a guaranteed jump.
    89:50
    And then I'd try the green button sometimes. And I would know by sense from playing that the game would be looser now because so much money had been put in it or credit had been played off because that's just something I've learned from observation. and without knowing about the replay correct I didn't know but you'd get a feel for it pretty quick yeah you did and so I'm sitting there and he said you can't get any odds on that green thing I said well this game does there's something on it and I'm pressing it a few times and all of a sudden bleep bleep bleep you know how it does yep you hit a hold the R down or a okay and it goes all on up and the guy was looking at me with his mouth open and I said, told you. And I think I hit that one too. I can't remember. That was cool. But anyway, so I got this pinball out of that game when the glass was broken by Jelly and Slobber. I think Slobber was the one digging hard on it. Jelly was a little more reserved about that kind of thing. Yeah, you're a little more sneaky, I guess. And so I got that pinball out of that thing, and I still have it. I've set it aside. I got it on this little brass or little Art Deco-looking metal ring. It looks nice together.
    91:29
    And I've kept it separate. It's sitting up on a shelf in the man shop. If you look on that slideshow, you can probably find it, who the hell wants to. but I know that's an old original from the game I used to play back in the day and I got thinking this morning, if I had been thinking, I got one of the new balls out to check to see if these new bingo pinballs, one-eighth inch in size, can be picked up with a magnet or not. Have you tried? You have to buy non-magnetizable ones. And they're like, I think I did a price check the other day. They're like $7 a ball versus the normal one and an eighth, which are like $3 a ball or something like that. And those you can pick up a width of magnet. And if they magnetize, I had a problem on Double Up when I was fixing that,
    92:27
    where the shutter board was misaligned just slightly. it was under the little retainer clip. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the balls, as they would come down, would get magnetized on the left-hand side. So striking that thing. How about that? Yeah. So if I landed one and one, for example, and then another ball came by, it would just mate up to it. It would sister up.
    92:54
    That was pretty frustrating. Why had that happened on my Lord of the Rings pen? It's the only DMV, South State game I've got. But that game has magnets in it. Yeah. You know, and it's surprising that that doesn't happen more often. Well, the bingo's happened. I was told they had brass balls. Ah, I like that. And they do. And Don Hooker, in his interview, confirmed that. So I was going to just check and see what the heck I've got, you know, new ones in mind. And I've got the old one from the old days sitting there. I guess that I got a tin with old pinballs in it that I give away to my kitchen clients to put in their junk drawer. I said, here you go. Your starter. Put this in your junk drawer. And when you run across it, think of me and smile. And that's the only thing I can come up with doing besides taking it to the scrap yard or something. I ain't going to do all that. It's a nice token for stuff to remember. But I still got that ball from that machine way back then. And we had a lot of good times back in there. I mean, we spent hours playing that thing. And at low odds, we'd step out of the way and let other guys play after we hit, you know, because we knew they'd pump it in and the reflex would go back down.
    94:17
    But we didn't know it was a reflex. We just knew. That's how the machine works. Yeah. And we had a ball. We would tilt the machine.
    94:26
    By tilt, I mean we'd give it a slant so it favored coming down the left side of the play field, the non-shooter lane. So it would come down on 1, 8, 14, 19, 23 side. And this, just because that was easy hitting. right you know all that stuff was easy hit for the okays for the red stuff and I thought it was thought was great that's in it we did that and I had just love and that was just something we did with that machine there the other stuff would do is we take cans the cans now really flimsy aluminum they were a little thicker back then they just gone to pop pull tabs they've gone from the church key can opener thing to a pull tab and we take a can pretty stout and wedge it behind a wall between that and the game that give us a little extra support for shaking and I can't recall if this thing was on a on one of those stupid cast iron cradles or not I don't think that it was because I can't but I can remember we should have taken pictures and stuff of that back then but we didn't but they were everywhere I used to see them when I was a kid I started writing a book about these things. I sent you a copy of like the first story of my first time seeing them. I'm not going to do that now. But I saw them in a lot of places when I was a kid. And, you know, it's fascinating. I just, you know, I always liked pinball machines. I played, as a kid, you didn't have any money. So you couldn't play. Parents said, let's throw money away. But it's pretty lights. It's pretty colors. It's a game. I want to play it. You can.
    96:44
    When I got a little bit older and could cut grass and that kind of thing, get money, I would play pinball with it.
    96:55
    This was in the mid-late 60s when I could start doing that kind of thing. Instantly, that's what I would do. I lived in Hampton, Virginia, down near Norfolk in Chesapeake Bay and all. We lived not far from the water at all.
    97:14
    I could cut through this farm behind us and get over to I think it's Queen Street or King Street. I can't remember. It's a road that went across Back River or Little Back River. It went over to Langley Air Force Base. They had a guard station at the end of the bridge. and there were being near that Air Force base there were bars on the civilian side of the river of that bridge and Pops was one and then there was a couple of others and they had pinball machines in them. Well Pops had a bingo in the back. He wouldn't even let us. We'd go in there and buy a coke or get the heck out of there and then that was it. That was the closest to where we used to go crabbing. I would crab off this old train trestle and catch him and we take a string and a chicken neck and throw it in the water and a crab to come along and he pull it in real slow and put this long handle net and scoop the crab up put him in a bucket get a bucket of crabs well i would take this bucket of crabs after being out there all day and i'd go down i wouldn't go to pops because he was a jerk and I go down to this other place,
    98:31
    this other restaurant, bar thing, and it was empty because it was during the day. Everybody was working. And this lady in there that ran the place, and I would sell her my bucket of crabs for a dollar or a dollar and a half, something like this. And I'd buy Cokes and play the pinball machine. She had a teacher's pet in the back and I loved that game. I almost bought one here the other day. In fact, that was the plan for today. Yeah, that was a plan for the day to go get it, but I got hurt, and that's another story. Nobody wants to hear that. I'm talking about pinball.
    99:07
    And so I would play that teacher's pet. I'd feed that, and then they would have some wedge heads at the barbershop a couple of, you know, just down the way a little bit. And we'd spend a lot of time in there, too. My brother would go. He's younger. He was younger. Well, he's still younger. 20 months and he would he didn't care for the pinball that much he liked pitching back games would play the bowling alley and I think he really liked the bowling alley games most I think and I'd play that teacher's pit and he'd be playing that this small ball bowl I can't remember how long it was the length of it and I'd go through burn up my three games. It was a dime a game. Teacher's Pet was a dime a game or three for a quarter.
    100:04
    I'd go through my money. Up there playing that bowling game for a dime a game. Ten frames plus whatever else you got. He got his money's worth out of it. There's something to that, but I just loved pinball, man. All he did is I would play whenever I could, whenever I could. When you're young, you just don't have enough money to do that kind of thing. They were everywhere then. Man, they were everywhere.
    100:29
    And I played all the time, any time I saw them, anywhere, and they were all over the frickin' place. And then the solid state era came, and I got kind of annoyed. I got annoyed that, one, well, they all went up to a quarter,
    100:46
    and I got annoyed that when they went to a three ball instead of a five ball, and, you know, I'm getting gypped. Now, that said, I played, I used to go to, in Hampton, it was a rare event, but we would go to Buckrow Beach Amusement Park. This was where I rode my first roller coaster.
    101:12
    And they had all kinds of stuff. They had a skee-ball thing, you know, the old electromechanical skee-balls. They had a big row of those. they had a shooting gallery where you shot 22 shorts, real rifles at metal targets and the bat thing there. And you would shoot moving ducks and little things that looked like a pipe sticking up and you'd knock them down.
    101:39
    I can't remember what it cost. It was like a quarter for 10 shots or something like that. I don't remember. It must have been rough to be the attendant for that thing. Well, he'd sit over on the side, you know, and load you up. And the .22 shorts are not that loud, but I guess he's hard of hearing by the end of it.
    102:02
    And so those were cool, but I didn't get to do that as much because that cost a little extra. And if you did a bunch of that, you couldn't, you know, a skee-ball was ten cents. You could play that or do the bowling game for that. But they had a Penny Arcade, and that's what it said, Penny Arcade. I've been trying to find pictures on the Internet. I contacted the City of Hampton Chamber of Commerce or somebody else down there. I can't remember exactly who I contacted. Trying to find photographs of the thing. I can find photographs of the amusement park. I can't find anything of the inside of that arcade. It was full of pinball machines. They had one room full of old wood rails and old games. they had all stand up a bunch of stand up stuff and crane games they had gun games out the wazoo and I'm like gun games this isn't the same why are you shooting a fake gun we can go over here and shoot the real one this was it I thought it was a jit but they had a little mutoscope you can go up and put a penny in it and crank the handle and they show some girl dancing and right when she's getting ready to take the top off, the thing stops, you know. And I thought that was kind of, so the stuff was penny, nickel and dime and they had this one bigger machine that was a quarter. And inside it was a movie projector inside. It was a peep show. And it was a quarter. And it wasn't too far from where you got your change, a little booth thing, gate where the guys have them change. so I had a dollar and I went and got four quarters and I waited around and looked around and I plugged a quarter in this thing to watch this girl and there's a woman and she was dancing and she took off her top and you could see everything and it was in color and she was jiggling and I went through a dollar I saw the whole thing and then I'm like wow you know hell 12 or 13 or something I know these guys I remember they were purposely not looking at me and so it's like well I was a 12 or 13 year old adolescent where's the bathroom I get over there and find it the bathroom's locked man well I really did have to pee I really did sure they had locked the bathroom because they knew I was on that thing and they would not let me go.
    104:42
    This is true. And so, I never forget that. That was a pretty funny thing. The pinballs were on location. Bingoes were all over the place.
    104:54
    And I know a couple guys around town that used to play. And I might see if they were willing to tell their story. I record them or something on my cell if you want to give that a go. I don't know.
    105:09
    Sure, we'll figure it out. website and I think I've got I know I've got at least about 20 pages of stuff I've sent in but it could be higher I was just reading that the other day and um that's good stuff on there this one show that I took a pinball to and set up in my room Jeffrey got his second book he got copies of his second book the bingo pinball war united versus valley 1951 through 1957 she for publishing the publisher sent him two copies of his pre-release copies of his book and he brought that to the show and we were like the first to see it besides him and whoever else happened to be nearby i think that was when his Buddy Sal was there, so we would have seen it. Very few people laid eyes on it.
    106:43
    They sent him two. And I was like, man, give me this. Come on, I want this one. It's pre-released. What a cool story. And he was reluctant.
    106:58
    Well, I wrote my little write-up on the show and let me, you know, what we did and the fun we had. and wanted the news of the book to get out there because I happened to be in the right spot at the right time.
    107:15
    And after Jeffrey wrote that thing, he wouldn't give me the pre-release copy. And all of a sudden, in the mail one day,
    107:29
    this ugly package arrived. and I opened it up with some old box and then it had Kroger shopping bags, duct tape all around it and I keep going through layers and layers of man wrapping and inside is a copy of Bingo Pinball War the second book and here on the second page which is blank, it's where he will sign your book if you get one. This is what is written. To Steve Smith, you are the lucky receiver of a pre-release copy of my new book. This book is from my publisher, October 9, 2010, and is one of only two in existence.
    108:28
    I have the other. Feel honored my friend Jeffrey Lawton October 9th 2010 I got chill bumps right now man I think very highly of this guy He's a good man He's a hell of a bingo guy But There and that he's a hell of a man And that said I don't know I'm sure I'm not the only one But So far in my lifetime, I'm the only person I've ever met that has a pre-release copy of a book from somebody. And I've got several books autographed by authors. This is a treasure.
    109:17
    It's priceless to me. I'm honored. And Jeffrey, thank you again, mate. Good pal. that's fair I'm gonna go visit him one day I'm gonna I want to do a video which I know you'll agree to I wanted to go kind of drop down Dennis or Dale's place too but I'm not sure if he'd be willing for that you come think how very highly of you I've seen him stuff he's sent me stuff. He charged for things now. He didn't charge me anything for the last several things I've done.
    110:03
    His last favor he asked of me, I wrote, I made a he wanted to put new catcher boards. This is where when you dump a ball, dump your game, the balls land on his catcher board and are fed down to the trough.
    110:21
    He wanted to put new ones in his restorations. And he knows I'm a cabinet maker. And he's like, Steve, would you do a drawing of these things for me? So I did. It took me a little while to do it. I scaled drawing, plan view, cross sections, side view, all the dimensions, all the angles are noted. and it'll it fits and works on any I think any magic screening game he was a lady man I sent that thing to he said man you know what you're doing I said yeah I've been trained grafting a little bit he's an engineer so coming from an engineer working in you know thousands of an inch some media 132nd of an inch tight tolerance usually 64th of an inch that's quite an honor but he has not been responding to calls or emails and I'm concerned about his business having some health issues from time to time I've had no response Jeffrey hasn't heard from him Phil out in Denver and heard from him concerned I'm gonna try them some more but I just don't know what's going on with that that's that's a that's a great loss Hugh was knows a lot of stuff he learned from Jeffrey and Jeffrey admits he passed that Hugh passed him in ability that's quite a statement coming from the man that wrote from that book you can you and I converse through electronic mail for a while then on the phone and we would just we call each other once a while just check in and then we have talked about dingos at some point but usually that's just that and I'm really concerned about his health issues all being good people are getting older man he was said his 70 and so I'm leaving it there. I don't know what's going on with that.
    112:45
    If I get updated, I will relate to the bingo community as soon as I have some kind of word. Please do. You know, and other than that, the guys over there in the Valley Bingos in Britain place, that's super nice Chris Howard man he's a walking encyclopedia he should have written a freaking book I told him that years ago I haven't spoken with him but we've you know through the news board and some private messaging things he's got a sister that lives in Toronto he's coming over to visit and he was asking if Richmond's anywhere near there and I'm like no I'd love to have you over, Ben, but that's quite a trip. But come on if you want. And I thought about heading over there for one of their gatherings because I couldn't get anybody. I tried getting a bingo pinball tournament set up over here. I got zero freaking response from anybody.
    113:50
    And so it's just, you know, everybody's got their own stuff to do. I get it. I'm trying to gather up to go to a show is enough. If there's more pinball shows, I'd love to go to them, but you can only do so many things. For heaven's sake, you've got family vacations and other stuff to consider. You can't just be wrapped up in this all the time.
    114:11
    And so, you know, I think I talked your ear off enough for this session. I've got other stuff I want to tell you that's cool, but I will wait that for another time if you're willing to put up with me again heck yeah well Steve I want to thank you both for coming out today and talking but also introducing me to this world and everything in it everybody I've never met a bad bingo guy I talked Nick into going to his first pinball show right after that I don't even think he had a pinball yet no I don't think so and And, you know, and then so his first show, had you been bitten by the bingo bug then? I don't recall. I spent a lot of time on them because Jeffrey brought a Magic Square theme. I think, okay, you had been bitten then. Yeah.
    115:10
    But he's like, Nick comes in his first pinball show after only, you know, before you were known in a game. I said, you got to go, man, you got to go. And so he did and he spent the night. in our hotel room. I bought a game and set it up in the hotel room, and he and Jeffrey are in there fiddling with it, and it's like, you know, we've got the alpha and the omega, the newest pinball guy, and the oldest pinball guy. Well, he was older, but anyway. I thought I got the biggest kick out of that, and I'm joining this stuff, and Nick is passing the baton to this guy. We've got to send him stuff. We've got to somehow see if we can keep the thing going for the few of us, the few that will take interest in the future generations.
    116:02
    And I just think it's cool, and I'm glad I had a part of it. Yeah. Well, it's all about information, and that's what this is all about, just getting that information out to people who otherwise wouldn't have any inroad for it. And I know there's tons of information on the web, and of course you've pointed me to it all, but it can be difficult to find if you don't know the machines even exist, which I certainly didn't.
    116:31
    So. Thanks for having me. If you'll have me again, I'll come up with some new crap. Well, not crap, just stories. Good stuff, right? Yeah. Only the best. No.
    116:45
    Just stuff. try to make it interesting. I don't know if that was interesting or boring anybody to death, but it's all true. No brag, just fact is the old... I'll punch it up with special effects. It's okay.
    116:59
    Well, Steve, you want to play some bingo here while I got you? I've got one arm, man. So it'd be like playing a one-armed bandit.
    117:09
    Well, that's why I need to get a high-five because you can nudge the table with the button. I've created a big monster. I'm going to look at the magic screen and see what happens. That's why I've got to feed him. He's going to give me money.
    117:35
    Are you paying off? Thank you.