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Cary Hardy - Episode 23

JBS Show·podcast_episode·1h 2m·analyzed·Apr 4, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Kerry Hardy shares pinball content creation journey and TPF 2024 restoration competition experience.

Summary

Kerry Hardy discusses his journey from gaming content creator to pinball restoration expert and YouTube personality, covering his experience at Texas Pinball Festival 2024, the rising quality of homebrew machines, his Earthshaker restoration project, and observations about manufacturing quality versus restoration detail work in the pinball industry.

Key Claims

  • Homebrews winning best-of-show at TPF 2024 represents a significant shift in competition dynamics

    high confidence · Kerry states Friday the 13th homebrew won best of show, marking a game-changer moment for competition structure

  • Kerry completed Earthshaker restoration in two months for TPF 2024 competition

    high confidence · Kerry describes accelerated timeline: 'the quickest I've ever turned a game around' with multiple videos per week, finished Tuesday of TPF week

  • TPF 2024 implemented mandatory play-testing before issuing badges to ensure game functionality and safety

    high confidence · Kerry confirms: 'this year at TPF, they wouldn't give the badges until they play tested your game'

  • Homebrew builders invest significantly more effort than restoration enthusiasts in creating custom mechs, toppers, and art

    high confidence · Kerry acknowledges: 'they put in more work than a lot of us that are just basically making what someone has already created'

  • 2023 TPF saw more problematic machines brought to show with known defects than 2024

    medium confidence · Kerry references '2023 was probably the worst when it comes to people bringing a known bad game'

  • Kerry began serious pinball content creation in 2018, but had YouTube account since ~2011

    high confidence · Kerry states: 'I've had the youtube handle since uh maybe 2011... that didn't start until like 2018... when i decided actually you know let's let's dedicate this to pinball'

  • X-Files restoration was Kerry's first major pinball restoration content, not Back to the Future

    high confidence · Kerry clarifies: 'no it was actually an x-files... i believe x-files was the first time where i was like i'm going to show you some of the stuff that i do'

Notable Quotes

  • “they put in more work than a lot of us that are just basically making what someone has already created it pretty again whereas they're like creating all kinds of like new mechs or a new way to plunge a custom topper custom art”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~15:00 — Acknowledges homebrew builders' superior effort compared to restorers; contextualizes why homebrews won best-of-show

  • “the rest of us that have won best to show looked at each other and said that this has changed like the game has just changed for us kind of thing”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~12:30 — Marks turning point in competition structure when Friday the 13th homebrew won best-of-show at TPF 2024

  • “if you're going to commentate on a particular hobby that everybody's interested in, then you need to be well-educated on it as well. You can't just get into the hobby and think you know about the history of it”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~22:00 — Reflects on community standards for content creators entering pinball space; emphasizes need to earn trust and understand history

  • “i'm not against it uh it's just like i know that it would require a great deal of work and finesse especially when it comes to like uh woodworking and everything”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~19:45 — On potential homebrew machine building; cites resource and skill constraints

  • “it's a curse when looking at games that are even brand new and that's why some of the things I criticize about them just so critical because a lot of the time it's the small minute details”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~45:30 — Explains restoration-trained perspective that notices manufacturing quality issues others miss

  • “i literally finished the game and, like, play tested it the Tuesday of TPF week. So it was one of those where i'm like, i hope everything works. I don't even know how well it shoots”

    Kerry Hardy @ ~37:00 — Details tight timeline pressure on Earthshaker restoration; illustrates risks of last-minute projects

  • “they have the uh state nevada and california mirrored so they kind of like do that on the back box where the states are facing the other direction in order for the art to match”

Entities

Kerry HardypersonTexas Pinball Festival (TPF)eventWormhole PinballorganizationEarthshakergameFriday the 13thgameHaggis PinballcompanyX-Files

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: TPF 2024 exhibited fewer problematic/non-functional machines compared to 2023, suggesting improved competitor vetting and preparation

    medium · Kerry: '2023 was probably the worst when it comes to people bringing a known bad game' with people hoping for free repairs

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant emerging talent pool in homebrew pinball design and building; Kerry expects manufacturers to recruit from this community

    high · Kerry: 'i feel that every year more and more people with this talent are getting into it and it's just a matter of which manufacturer is going to grab this untapped talent to reel them in'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Homebrew machines winning best-of-show at major festival (Friday the 13th at TPF 2024) represents fundamental change in competition structure and expectations

    high · Kerry: 'when you know friday the 13th game won best of show i mean the rest of us that have won best to show looked at each other and said that this has changed like the game has just changed for us'

  • ?

    content_signal: Pinball community has high bar for credibility of new commentators; requires demonstrated knowledge, respect, and earning of trust over time

    high · Kerry: 'you have to be well-educated on it... you need to learn who the designers of these particular games are, the history' and 'you kind of had to build up a trust with some of these people'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Homebrew builders motivated by creating games with themes/features major manufacturers won't produce due to licensing and cost constraints

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.189

0:00
Hello, you are listening to and are watching our podcast called Wormhole Pinball Presents, and today I'm very excited to be joined by Kerry Hardy. Welcome to the Wormhole Virtually. Kerry, thanks so much. Hello, and thanks for having me.
0:20
So I'm in Houston. Where are you in Texas? I'm up here in Sherman, basically about an hour north of Dallas. Okay. is your family from here uh yeah we've been been in texas pretty much all my life i mean so that's best yeah majority of them are here in texas a small portion of my family's in arizona and a little bit to philadelphia it's a different world texas isn't yeah luckily it is though because it was a culture shock for my wife and i we met in central florida but i'm from new york and she's from Chicago.
0:57
And we moved to Florida in 97. And the first week of us moving here was Go Texan Day. I don't know what that day is. It's a big day in Houston for the rodeo. For the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo. So people wear their cowboy hats to the office. It's like a Friday. It'll be Go Texan Day. and they put the big belt buckles and stuff. And my wife calls me on my cell phone at 97. I had a cell at 97. It was hot shit.
1:32
Rich? No. I was a recruiter. And I needed to call candidates all the time. So she calls me up and she's like, where did you move me? They're all wearing belt buckles. I'm wearing a dress from Hank Lewin.
1:50
I think it's a misconception for a lot of people is they think that we all wear like 10-gallon hats and cowboy boots and big old belt buckles and stuff like that. Totally not, at least in my area. Right. Fort Worth is more commonly you're going to see more of that, but like Dallas and majority of us actually don't walk around looking like that wearing stuff. Well, our first day of Texas we thought you did.

Kerry Hardy @ ~52:30 — Identifies manufacturing detail issue with Earthshaker reproduction decals; explains commission of custom corrected version

game
Getawaygame
Swords of Furygame
Future Queengame
Cosmic Princessgame
Centaurgame
Barrels of Funcompany
John Spatesperson
Batman Forevergame
Jawsgame
Cosmic Princessgame

high · Kerry: 'they want to create a machine based on a theme that they know that a big manufacturer is not going to make it' with full callouts and segments not constrained by licensing or cost

  • ?

    event_signal: TPF 2024 implemented mandatory play-testing before issuing competitor badges to ensure game quality and safety

    high · Kerry: 'this year at TPF, they wouldn't give the badges until they play tested your game' due to need to prevent non-functional machines from competing

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Reproduction Earthshaker decals contain mirrored/inverted state graphics that differ from originals, likely due to licensing or production process issues

    high · Kerry identifies Retro Refurbs produces decals with mirrored Nevada/California orientation; commissioned custom version to correct this

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Haggis Pinball's Centaur cabinet design lacks protective standoffs, creating durability/aesthetic issues during transport

    medium · Kerry criticizes: 'where you have the cabinet upright and you're moving it for the dolly or whatever there's no standoffs on it so if you're moving the cabinet around basically it can be scuffed up'

    • 2:18
    Like what the hell are we, what did we do? I got a good amount of my coworkers that actually moved from California to here in the last five or six years. A great deal of them actually went from California to here where I'm located. And they said it was one of the best things that they've done. Just a much better place in comparison, I guess, the way direction that that state's headed in their mind. No, look, I love Texas. I raised two Texan boys. I have a Texan grandson. I mean, I'm in love with the joy. I just, you know, when we moved here, it was like massive culture shock for us. All right, let's get to it. You can find Cary Heavily on YouTube.
    3:03
    I carry Hardy. When I was prepping for this interview, I delved a little deeper into some of your bods. And you, when were you first posting on YouTube? uh let's see i've had the youtube handle since uh maybe 2011 whenever its conception was because i had an account so i could watch videos on youtube and i would post like some gaming videos or stuff like that that i had done like for battlefield 2 a long time ago and then eventually i had some other little things here and there just nothing serious or anything to try to like grow a channel or anything like that that didn't start until like 2018 i want to say that's when i decided actually you know let's let's dedicate this to pinball kind of thing it was uh my first youtube so i delved into youtube earlier before pinball and i had a channel called waiting for my tesla um i was a first day reservation holder for the model three and i got a vin number and it just took from vin number to getting your car out of california it was like it wound up being like three months four months so i started buying all these extra add-ons for a tesla that i didn't own and then I was doing product reviews on like products like you know a charger bank or wireless charger all this crap I was buying for a Tesla that I didn't own and I called it waiting for my Tesla and I was getting like thousands and thousands of views because it was such a stupid concept and then uh once I got the car I I just let it go I was bored with it because I already I got the car.
    4:58
    I started doing videos when it comes to streaming and putting them on YouTube or Twitch or whatever. It was video game based. I would be playing different types of video games. And for those that don't know, it's a very saturated area of YouTube. It's people playing video games and you get to watch them and everything. But I think I started with a series. It was like Call of Duty, World at War, whatever. And that stuff's still out there. and you can find it. Maybe eventually I'll share it if people want to see me play video games or whatever in my commentary about it. I thought I was funny, but you know, it is what it is. But it's one of those things where, to me, gaming and recording and editing those videos, it seemed more like work than fun or anything. My passion is not really into video games. It's like, yeah, I do that as a little side thing here and there, just a little stress reliever or whatever, just something to do but my passion really was in the hobby of pinball and i was like you know why don't i just do what i do with pinball whether it repairs or whatever and just record and edit that i mean and then that basically turned what was work into just something of it's just fun to do a passion kind of yeah so look i did this no longer work was your like first foray in the pinball content that's back to their future restoration project uh no it was actually an x-files okay i got i got that machine and um it was one of those for a location and i was like i was like oh yeah you know what i think i probably have some early videos of back to the future but it wasn't like you know going through the whole process of everything whereas i believe x-files was the first time where i was like i'm going to show you you know some of the stuff that I do it was more of a refurbished and a restoration or anything and I look back at it now and I did a horrible job with the LEDs on it I mean it's so bad and it's just like it's like oh man I would not do a game like that today and the thing is that X-Files is actually on the location near me he has it and I play it and I'm like I'm sorry about your LED job and I really wish I would have done a little bit better than what's currently on there it was a kit it was like I bought a kit that was already assembled so the GI is probably like blues and purples or whatever and stuff and it's just like oh so bad do you remember your first shift from maybe in content where you went from like a pinball restoration project to just giving your opinions on a mic I want to say it might have been Black Knight Sword of Rage if I had to guess because I would have to look back at it, and I still do the restorations, but I think when it came to commentary on the hobby. Right, because it's different, right? It's a different, you could hide behind a restoration rather than you sitting on camera and talking about recording yourself alone discussing pinball topics and what you think about it. It's just a different type of stream. It's different because, you know, it's one of those things where I feel like definitely if you're going to commentate on a particular hobby that everybody's interested in, then you need to be well-educated on it as well. You can't just get into the hobby and think you know about the history of it, and you need to learn who the designers of these particular games are, the history that they have. there's a lot of things that you need to educate yourself on if you feel like that you're going to be at least accepted by the pinball community for talking about it and that's something that I think some people need to understand is that the people in this hobby just because you come in gun slinging people are going to look at you like we don't know who you are you kind of had to build up a trust with some of these people and I'm still doing that to this day I mean there's just there's some people that you can't please but it's definitely you have to you know earn you know whether it be a reputation or a trust within the people in this hobby kind of thing you could only play the new card for so long right i played the new card a lot when we started wormhole and you know i didn't know who anybody was and i i could get away with it right you know because it was covid so i can get away a little bit but eventually i had to figure out how everyone is so that's okay it's a it's a it's a lot to learn and you basically have to make this hobby a portion of your life a part of your life and the joy about that is that you end up meeting other people that enjoy it just as much as you if not more and that's what the whole joyful part of like these shows like texas pinball festival and expo and stuff like that is that you get to meet other people that feel just as passionately about this as you do and so as we're talking pinball speak and using acronyms or whatever talking about certain things whereas i tried doing that with my wife and she just her eyes glaze over and she's like i don't know what you're talking about kind of thing and so this is a point for just a lot of us that really enjoy the hobby just to go back and forth and it's just like it's just i don't know it's just therapeutic in a way it is to me you know my wife is not into pinball she doesn't really care but she loves the wormhole and she loves you know tim and christine who uh lona and john so we have events here and she bartends she's like look i'm not gonna play pinball i'm just gonna bartend so we call the bartender and that's you know that's her contribution and she's really damn good at it she does all the merch and stuff we're slowly pulling her in, Kerry.
    10:48
    I've been doing this for over a decade and it's like the wife, she's there for it. She's all for me doing my thing as long as I always put the family first and I'm not losing money, then she's all for it kind of thing. So was there a video where you came to them and said, I'm on to something? Do you remember that? There was never a point. I'm still at that point where I don't think I'm on to something or anything. I think probably my first, I guess, It video, the one that I guess got the most traction, was the one where I did a barn find and we found that Addams Family. And people got this, you know, it's kind of traumatic for people to see all these games that have just been sitting out in the weather and have just turned into just god-awful mess. Yeah. There's like over a decade of weather changes in Texas. So I think that was definitely kind of what people watched, not for me, but just because they watched it because it's sad that some people just let these things sit out and fester away. And I think that was one of my first videos that I guess got the most interests and views.
    11:58
    That's awesome. Let's pivot to TPF. You did a podcast with the Pinball Network, which I just listened to. We kind of went through every machine, so I don't want to do that again. I mean, you could download the TPM podcast. That was what, Flippin' Out and Friends? Yes. Was that on YouTube or is it on? I think it went to multiple, but I believe it is on YouTube. Yes. I think I posted the link on my community page on YouTube. All right. So I have a few questions that may not have been covered on that show. How about that? Okay. um they really homebrews were a huge kind of hit in 2024 um did you get a chance to play every one of those homebrews or i really wish that i could have um and this was something that i think was a big game changer this year when it comes to the homebrews is because a lot of us that bring a game for competition purposes and everything so like this year i brought my earth shaker and a lot of My friends, they bring other games that they've restored and cleaned up. They bring them, you know, for the competition-wise of that. And we never looked at homebrew as being a competitor. We looked at it as its own separate category because there is an award for best homebrew and stuff like that. We just never thought that that was going to be something that we were going to have to compete against. and so this year when you know friday the 13th game won best of show i mean the rest of us that have won best to show looked at each other and said that this has changed like the game has just changed for us kind of thing and i was like by all means those that have built their own game or done this they put in more work than a lot of us that are just basically making what someone has already to create it pretty again whereas they're like creating all kinds of like new mechs or a new way to plunge a custom topper custom art where i mean and i think it's incredible yeah i'm completely aware that they put in much more time and effort than i do on just making something that used to look pretty pretty again and so by looking at a lot of these games i mean for those that do just restore games and not make our own there's definitely a moment of like man they put a lot of work into this so i required a lot of effort on their end and stuff like that so looking at these games that i am impressed at the amount of untapped talent that we have within this hobby and i feel that every year more and more people with this talent are getting into it and it's just a matter of which manufacturer is going to grab this untapped talent to reel them in kind of thing yeah have would you ever consider building a homebrew yourself i'm not against it uh it's just like i know that it would require a great deal of work and finesse especially when it comes to like uh woodworking and everything i would really like to get it like a cnc uh machine to do a lot of this cutting and stuff like that because if I'm going to be doing it with a hand drill and I'm one of those where I measure like six times and cut six times as well kind of thing and it's just never going to be good especially for a whitewood so I would have to like I would definitely have to lean heavily on those that have done their own machine so that way they could help me out because I would be going in and just not knowing what to do next kind of thing. John Spates, one of the wormholers Walked through there with me And he just goes, alright, we gotta do our own boom pen We gotta do our own boom pen And I was like man we have Because we have Tech Wednesday And we have three tournaments here a month and these machines just get beat up You know 30 40 50 people come in and we have this board of grievances So Wednesday is the board of grievances of what we've got to fix. And I'm like, we just don't have time to build a machine from scratch. And then all the people I'd want to get involved with, like a team, they already work for Barrels of Fun here in Houston. And so it's like they don't want to make machines during the day. Yeah.
    16:11
    And then come and go, hey, you guys want to make a machine on the office? Right, that's not going to work. And that's the thing. I think that's one of the main basically catalysts for those that are making their own machine is that they want to create a machine based on a theme that they know that a big manufacturer is not going to make it. And not just that they're not going to make it, but they're going to make it and they're not going to do it justice.
    16:39
    There's going to be a lot of things that they're just not going to be able to get licenses on or they're not going to create certain things in there because of cost restraints. Whereas someone has enough passion behind the office or anything that they're going to be like, you know what? I want every funny call out there is in the show. I want all these segments. It's mine. I can do what I want kind of thing. We're not out there selling the machines to the masses so they can essentially create a one-off and do what they want. So that's what I really like about it also is that you're going to see people that are going, you know, no one's doing this thing. And I would really like to see this in a machine. People with that talent and the passion behind it bring this stuff to life. And it's like, yes, that's awesome kind of thing. You were talking about your Earthshaker earlier. I got a chance to really check that out. It was absolutely beautiful. that's the quickest I've ever turned a game around it was one of those where like the amount of videos that I was putting out that I typically do I typically do maybe a video a week that one the course of the two months that I was really hardcore I didn't even know it was going to make it to TPF or not it was bad I mean one small hiccup is something that I would do whether it be putting the decals down and they just don't go down very well, or if I drop something into Densest or messes this up, I mean, we're having to wait on something to be shipped to me. I honestly did not know if it was going to make it to the show. I was like, it was like, it was down to the wire. I literally finished the game and, like, play tested it the Tuesday of TPF week. So it was one of those where I'm like, I hope everything works. I don't even know how well it shoots, and who knows if things are going to go wrong. And a couple of things did go wrong because I didn't have enough time to really thoroughly play test it, especially with a shaker motor in it. That's what really highlighted anything that wasn't soldered very well or screwed down very well. Yeah, it moved. It's our weekend.
    18:46
    I mean, that's a testament, right, because that got banged on. Yeah, every TPF, that's the thing about the homebrew section also. I mean, if you want something to really test how well your game is built, bring it to a show for the weekend. You're like, you know what, I got a homebrew game. I want to see if it's going to survive. Bring it to TPF or Expo or something like that where it's just someone after another continuously hitting that start button, getting those coils all nice and hot. You'll get tested, all right. We'll get tested on that kind of thing. It was weird because this year at TPF, they wouldn't give the badges until they play tested your game.
    19:27
    And we brought four, five, and one of them, Cosmic Princess, behind me, blew a coil. So when they were play testing it. And it's not like you can get a stern Australian coil. so we you it was blown away how many people found one and brought one to us i don't even how they did it that's the great thing i enjoy about i can't speak for expo because i don't bring games to expo i bring games to tpf but there's definitely everyone that brings a game is looking out for everyone else that brought a game yeah if you need a spoil you need help with something every time one of us had to lift the play field up, we were there going, what do you need? What do you need of this tool? What do you need? What do you need? What do you need? Just help each other out, whatever we had to do to get the games back and fully functioning so people could play and begin. We got each other's backs. Even though we were in competition with one another, we still want to help each other out because we know that it's a frustrating thing to have to work on something in the middle of a show, and we want everybody to be able to have all the games functioning, and that was one of the principles of why they put into place the whole testing to make sure that the games were playable working and also safe by making sure that they're yeah i had no problem with it i thought it was really great uh this way someone doesn't bring a jalopy right yeah and that happens and it's like last year not this one we just had but i think 2023 was probably the worst when it comes to people bringing a known bad game yeah i mean like there's time I know things happen in transit to where it's like, oh, you know, this came loose, this connector. Sure. Loose solder joint. It happens. Every time you move a pinball machine, something, something. Even from one side of the room to the next. Like, what happened? Dude, we've got a bonsai run that's been sitting there since 2020, and we won't move it because we're afraid of the magnet. Because it's such a rare little, you can't replace that on the upper play field. We won't move it. It's never going to move. Yeah, but we had people that would bring in games with fried coils, board that obviously didn't burn there at the show kind of thing. Like, you know the game doesn't work. You merely brought a game in hopes that the technicians there would repair it, possibly for free. Pinball ERS is there to help out a lot of people to get their games up and going. And so, and I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, but there are people out there that have brought games that do not work, and they know they do not work. and it's just like why would you even do that i mean wow they're being cheap too so get rid of them it's like you're putting in the effort to like all game to the show and people will say that's pretty hardcore to like a lot of effort to put into bringing a game to the show and i'm like well it's not so much that they're bringing the game just to get a free ticket they're bringing the game and also hoping that it'll get repaired yeah what's their kind of thing for free yeah this uh that we had a lot more games that were up and running this yeah or some of the previous what is um did you win an award with earthshaker uh yes i got a runner-up for best uh 80s early solid state we we didn't think we were going to win on future queen which we did we won best original uh which was a rare game uh which is strange that we won best original we didn't understand uh like because it's a bell games from uh italy but i guess that's original i don't know we were just happy we got a plaque i mean that was really kind of cool my goal knowing i wasn't going to get a best of show at work i know the best to show it requires a lot of work not two months like that i did of this will have to do mentality kind of thing it and so when i got the best of show for my getaway i mean that took multiple years yeah where it had to so i knew like there's no way i'm gonna get best of show i've already saw some of the games that were gonna be in competition i'm not sure if you saw the batman forever that was i did that was really pictures of underneath the play field and all that kind of stuff i'm like oh man i don't i mean i can't judge by pictures alone but i know that you're definitely in the running for an award i was like but from what i can tell so far kind of thing so i knew what some of the competition was it was going to be overall better than mine. So my only goal was to hopefully earn something in the 80s category. I mean, best 80s would have been like the top tier. Oh, my gosh, that would have been my best case scenario. So a runner up in the 80s, I'm like, yeah, I met my goal. So that's what I did. So I was like, all right, good. I'm happy with that.
    24:15
    Absolutely. It's a beautiful machine. It's absolutely beautiful. I went and saw it, and you weren't there. and I didn't really want to bang on it or anything, but I just wanted to, like, you know, just look at the art and look at the play feel. It's really, it's beautiful. And then the decals, my brother recreated those. Really? One of those where I was like, I want new decals because a lot of people don't know this, but some people do. Like, they do create black decals for Earthshaker. I think Retro Refurbs has them. And I'm not sure if it's a purposeful mistake or it's there for licensing issues but they have the uh state nevada and california mirrored so they kind of like do that on the back box where the states are facing the other direction in order for the art to match they just basically mirror them so the states are facing the wrong direction okay and they're not like that on the original and so so the black ones that they create they're mirrored and i'm like i don't want that so i had him i was like i was like hey can you make it to where they're as close as possible to the original. I need to stay spaced in the right direction and stuff like that. And so he even did a little bit more than that by making it a little bit. I was like, he wanted to do a lot more. And I was like, no, I can't go too modern on a game like this. I was like, you just want to add, like, you know, other stuff in the background and everything, making it look all modernized. I'm like, no, I don't need all that fancy stuff. So I think the most he did was just a slight little glow around the cracks, but that was about it. So it's these little nuances. If you want your pin to be recognized as a best in show or to win in a category, it's these little nuances that you really need to pay attention to. It's like the difference between competitive barbecue and just cooking in behind your house, right? Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing. I don't even want to call it a blessing, but it's more of a curse. When I look at a lot of machines and you see all the details or things that could look better. and so and this is something whether the people that compete want to admit it or not we do this we walk around the show and we kind of pinpoint out other machines that are definitely going to be in the running against us kind of thing and so we kind of look at them and say you're like oh well you know what they didn't do this or this is not too clean here and you you see all the little mistakes or things that could have looked better and definitely i could look at my earth shaker and I know people who do their own restorations can look at their own game and know what could be better and the thing is a lot of things people aren't going to see but those that did the restoration they're going to see everything and they know what could have been better kind of thing so it's it's a curse when looking at games that are even brand new and that's why some of the things I criticize about them just so critical because a lot of the time it's the small minute details and but you're coming from that restoration you know brain where you're saying okay this has to look better. I've got to make this look better.
    27:12
    And when Stern comes out with a new Jaws or whatever, it doesn't matter, and then you see these little things, it's got to drive you nutty, right? A little bit. It's one of those things where a part of me is like, oh, they could have done this, but it all comes down to cost. I mean, the bottom line always comes down to, especially from a manufacturing that are just constantly printing these games, copy-paste, get them out the door to people kind of thing. They can't spend hours and hours putting a game together like mass making these like stern does and making them each one flawlessly with no issues i wish they could i mean but i mean luckily the games that i've got from stern they have been good out of the box so but there's there's mistakes that get made out there so uh last thing on the restoration side what's your next project do you know uh i'm leaning towards a particular one and i haven't really said like put a stamp on it just yet but i'm leaning towards uh swords of fury we we just got a sword and it's like it's one of those that you don't see very often oh man we just got one in and uh tim bought one and it's not a good competitive pinball game for competitive because of what it is a there's a randomness to bonuses or random things in that game that you just don't even want to shoot for that are there yeah they're u-shaped flasher area right there why i think i hammered that last night in the max match bike i mean nothing yeah it's like it's like you hit that all the time it's not going to really give you i was just hammering it and hammering it i think the for that game's uniqueness it's definitely the music that really uh highlights for a lot of people on that kind of thing i remember playing it for the first time at tpf many years ago and what turned me on to it was definitely the music it was simple but it also had a really good beat to it kind of thing and i think it's for those that know the game swords of fury you immediately highlight the soundtrack it's like that's one of the best parts of the oh definitely we have ours cranked but you know when there's 24 in here now you can't hear it all but i'm leaning towards that one uh my brother's already basically he's redone uh some of the art for that one but kept it pretty close to the original um it's it's on the list i haven't put a little stamp on definitely it's going to happen but i got other things in the works other people that are tribute to it and stuff too i got to uh play we'll go one more thing on tpf i got to play centaur uh and view it about five i saw your unboxing you did the video and then you left right so then i walked up to it with a couple of guys and i gotta say i mean the cabinet the art you know there's a mirror on the back this is haggis which i don't understand why they put that there i guess when it's back there there's a lot of things where i'm like they don't have to do if it's too much money where you again with the fine details portion i'm like why do they have this like you don't need that kind of thing so yeah like yeah it does look pretty but when are you ever gonna see it kind of thing i guess folded down you could see the haggis logo and i was like it's pretty damn nice yeah it's like yeah it's like i said when it comes to details there are certain things that uh it's it's a beautiful game yeah i think for one of the things that i guess bothers me about their cabinet style is that where you have the cabinet upright and you're moving it for the dolly or whatever there's no standoffs on it so if you're moving the cabinet around basically it can be scuffed up and everything on the floor they don't have anything to protect that side of the cabinet that they're trying to make look pretty okay logo and everything on i'm like you think they'd have some kind of plastic standoffs but i guess they kind of want to make it more pretty by not having the standoffs there. It's pretty. I'll tell you this right now, though, and we're done with Haggis. If I walked through TPF and I did detective work and saw Haggis hanging down like you did, okay, I would have streamed the shit out of it. I would have unboxed it, okay? Yeah I would have brought I telling you this Carrie I would have brought my rig down from the tournament room upstairs with three ZV and I would have had that thing surrounded Yeah And I would have kicked out and they would have had to kick me out of there because I would have shamed it all night We would have put dollar games on it. We would have had a whole thing. Yeah, it's one of those where especially you don't know the condition of something. You know, a game that people are anticipating and hoping that they're going to get. We haven't seen one in person. It arrives on its side pretty much. It's like, you're just going to go, well, I'll check it out tomorrow. Or you could be like, I might be able to see this tonight, maybe, kind of thing. You know, it's like, this is something that's just. Your only mistake was not getting the rig and coming to me at Horror Wormhole because I was out front and getting the rigs. Because I would have brought two rigs. We would have double rigged it. People wanted me to play it. I'm like, you don't want to see me play. I was like, that wasn't really the purpose of it, though. I mean, you know, so anyway, let's switch to this a good segue to criticism, because I like to talk to content creators about how they handle criticism. And I just had Colin Alshimer on from the Kineticist. And I really enjoyed my interview with his wife. I'm sorry. He's pretty familiar with getting criticism. He's pretty darn familiar with it. Right. And so I asked him, I said, you know, very similar. How do you handle criticism? And he was really candid about it, that it almost took him out of the hobby.
    32:55
    And that's not what we want, right? So, I mean, how do you deal with criticism? Because do you ignore it? Do you handle it straight on? I think criticism, that's the thing, and I try to tell this to people that are interested in getting into not so much the hobby, but if they want to get into creating any kind of content that allows people to openly give you comments or criticism, because you can't please everybody. And we always want to be able to make everybody happy, but sadly, you can't. It just can't be done. Like, even if I was to, like, you know, I don't know, give away money on a stream or whatever, anybody that didn't get money is going to be upset or whatever. Or, I mean, get a suitcase full of money to somebody, they're going to be mad that the suitcase wasn't the correct color. so it's like i said that joke i said that joke all the time if you give someone a bar of gold that complains to have it yeah but when it comes to criticism i mean that's you have to have thick skin you have to i mean and it's i think in this day and age and you have certain creators and i won't mention them here but you have certain content creators that literally um block out block delete comments whatever if in their mind it's negative or criticism it's like they just don't even allow it yeah and that's what i'm against is like that because i try to teach my kids that basically you know there are people out there and this is how you're going to have to deal with it kind of thing but if you just want to completely disregard and ignore meaning like you're just going to like i don't want to see it either you can just block it out and not see it Or you can learn to manage it, deal with it, and make you stronger kind of thing. So when you have certain people that just delete comments or block people because they said something that they don't agree with, you're never going to learn from it. You're never going to get thicker skin. Everyone that's listening to you that knows me is like, oh, Jamie, you're in trouble.
    35:03
    Jamie, you're in trouble. because I have the thinnest skin in America. And I'm a New Yorker. He grew up getting his balls busted on a weekly basis. You just have to just get used to it. And it's one of those things that whenever I post a video up, I know I'm not going to make everybody happy and I'm going to make some people mad. But it's also the fact that I post it up and then after it's there, I've got another life. This is not my primary source of income is creating content or videos and everything. Yeah. So I don't really have to focus on this. I still love pinball and love creating content for pinball. But it's like someone can post a comment, and as long as you remember that a lot of the times that is merely a momentary thing in their day was posting a little comment, and it's merely them hiding behind a picture that's not even them or whatever, completely anonymity to be able to hopefully aggravate you or make you mad or upset kind of thing and it's like the moment that you acknowledge the trolls i'll say that and feed them every day they always say never feed the trolls the moment that you give them something yeah that's when they know they got you that's whenever it's like oh yeah and then they're gonna double down on it because you gave them attention and that's all it is it's a some of them are just jealous the fact that you've got attention and they don't what can make where they get some attention also how about some negative energy kind of thing let's throw yeah and it's like like i said it's just a moment for them just to post something and they're going to go about their day that's a good reply to it then like a whole new thing so it's like i mean i don't i don't comment back on all the comments i get i leave the comments up that are there because i'm all about say what you want go ahead as long as it's not like it's pure up just you know racist or anything like that then yeah i'll leave comments up and you got to take the good with the bad and i think it's just a moment of a thing where it's i i would hate to say what i say like just openly talk about what i talk about and then reject anybody that doesn't agree with me i don't want to live in an echo chamber i i like being able to go back and forth with someone about something that we possibly don't agree on because i think that would be a learning experience for both of us so even just recently with a flip announced stream i was going to do a stream that night and talk about my experience with the tpf and go about it but joel offered for me to come on there and to talk with all of them and i was like yes i would much rather be able to talk to three or four of you guys and go back and forth with chat than just doing a video and talking to a camera kind of like yeah to go back and forth with people i don't believe but my my comments or my ideas are the best it's just like this is just how i feel and i i don't lie about anything because i don't want to have to remember what i said right don't like how a game shoots and i just don't like how it shoots it doesn't make the game bad it just means it's just not for me we have a tough time with that here you know the criticism part uh not that we receive criticism i need criticism uh if my sound's off if something's wrong with one of our streams i need to know okay because i i'm a producer for them for these people playing pinball really that's really what we do most of the time i just do this podcast because i'm i like it i like to unbox but uh i have a time i was i was gonna say for me it's like it's the negative comments that don't bother me but if it's negative comments and they're right those actually bug me a little bit i'm like well you know what he's right yeah so there's a good one about you they're wrong i'm like i don't care you're wrong i know you're wrong so i don't care so we kind of hit the scene during covid but one how we kind of got a name for ourselves wormhole people kind of found out who we were was uh the labyrinth video and we did uh they filmed the labyrinth uh reveal bow and currents here and then they filmed the teaser video with the girl kind of leaning and walking up to the machine so they filmed them here this place is dark yes okay it's the time for the first bone karen's played throughout okay so the first bone karen's fight through you go on and said it was too dark yeah right and i knew it was too dark but i'm not an audio video lighting idiot i'm just the guy that opened the door right and brought gave him my stream my rig it was too dark that drove me bananas for a good solid week here it was too dark because you were right and i was like 10 000 people watched this and it didn't do justice to the machine because it was too dark and we can't let that happen again uh and so i might have gone on stream a few times and said hey how's my lighting uh to joke with people but you were right it is it is hard to hear but damn it it was too dark in here and we got to make sure so i bought a bunch of lights and you know if we ever do a big stream like that i can put the playfield with better lighting because that's what killed it and then we need that needs four cameras because with their small little uh the labyrinth you know what i mean the other uh screen you got to show everything on that machine and i just don't think that that stream that it just didn't do it and that's the thing i think all streamers and or people that are creating content in general it's like whatever your primary focus is on your objective is to make the product or the game at its best yeah and so it's one of those things where and cameras are finicky when it comes to recording and what may look like as proper lighting and what you're actually going to be seeing whenever you put it into like my premiere when i'm editing and just recently i was doing some stuff or it looked good at the time then i put it into the program and i'm like that looks way too bright or that looks way too dark and it's like you have to make all kinds of like you know adjustments to the camera and the lens and stuff like that and but when it comes to streaming definitely it's like you have to be able to see the where the ball is at on their kind of you got to see it all i want to show off the art you want to show off everything i still think that labyrinth and barrels of fun had an excellent launch they're the up-and-comers in pinball i was like they regardless of the dark stream or whatever that didn't hinder the ability for them to sell more games no it's a beauty all it did was want just them to see more just with better lighting see we just did it on purpose we're just trying to tease you all exactly that was a crazy time for us because here we are with this kind of private pinball club that's open on three days a month. And then we get a call from our friend, Travis Moseman, who's now an engineer there. He left Aerosmith and he's a full-time engineer at Barrels. And he says, you have to sign an NDA.
    42:33
    I'm coming over and you have to sign an NDA. Now I'm in the staffing business. I signed NDAs before. And I usually like to know what it's about before I sign an NDA. And when they told us what was happening with Labyrinth and, you know, after we signed the NDA and that they wanted to do it here with Bowen. I mean, I should have break. I was just so excited for them. But they did it under our noses. I mean, for years. Yeah.
    43:00
    And they kept quiet. I mean, they were pretty tight lipped. No one knew what was going on. I was surprised. I mean, when they started releasing little teases and everything, you started getting the puzzles put together. You're like, could it be? Yeah. But even though the puzzle is equal to be possibly Labyrinth, I was like, I just don't see a company that no one knows getting that license kind of thing. It's like I just don't see that happening. And sure enough, there it is. There it is. I think they created a great world under glass for Labyrinth. I was like, that's what we want in pinball is to create that theme and put everything up underneath glass. And the new code is good. Yeah. Well, I still got to play more on it. a buddy of mine, he bought one, and he's also got a barbecue that I'm going to get more time on before I start getting a lot of feedback for that one. Yeah.
    43:51
    But with Labyrinth, I mean, the first time I played at an expo last year, and David walked up to me, and it was like I was about to say something, and he was like, let me just start caring by saying, I don't care if you like the game. And I was like, oh, okay. He has to start. This is the first time that me and David have ever, like, spoke to each other. he's like but how did we do on the theme and like i was like dude you nailed it i was like you you got a great theme and everything underneath the glass looks good he didn't care if i liked how it shot which is completely understandable because that's going to be subjective like nobody's business kind of thing but he wanted to make sure that they got the theme and some assets and all that kind of stuff underneath the glass and i think if they keep that mentality of just You know what, we want to bring this particular license, this particular theme, and just hack a game as much as we can, along with putting in hopefully a good layout. But I think they're definitely going to focus on getting the assets and bringing a theme to life. Yeah. I think they're – I think the future's bright for those guys. I'm, again, I'm pretty damn by it. This is where I would say an asterisk, or I would say the opinions of the wormhole do not necessarily represent – the thoughts of painting into the warm hole do not properly represent you know what i mean but they work uh they come here and we know them all and i know from david the travis to the guys who put the screws in and phil grimaldi did the rules we we love them and i'm so pumped to see what the next theme is i i haven't been signed under nda to that so i can't really i don't know but you know they're pretty excited about what's happening down there. So I think definitely it was one of those where people were completely surprised about what they could do. And I've spoken about this recently when it comes to reputations and pinball. And I think the one thing that was against them was that people didn't know who they were. Right. The trust. Am I going to get a game of our order from these people? Do they know how to make pinball machine? And they just came out swinging. they brought out so many games to expo was it 10 machines that they had their boxes ready to go and they were just showing off the topper that was already there i mean it was like they were just like we know what the community wants we have been in the community we have you know whether it be worked in the spooky area of pinball and stuff we have a good idea of what people want they want a game to launch and they want it to be ready now they want the games and boxes and be shipped out And now that they have proven that they can do that, their next game, whether it's a slam park theme or not, I think that their sales are going to be great because they've already got a reputation of knowing that they're going to get a game out ASAP. And from what I've heard so far, their customer service is top notch. It is. Yeah, from a couple of people that I've spoken to, they're like, yeah, they got back with me the same day or whatever, whatever. And yeah, it didn't resolve and stuff like that. We're lucky because we put it on location here. And so when they come here and one of them is our TD, and if he sees a bolt not tight enough, he fixes it. So this is number 26 right here. And it is perfect. It's always going to be perfect. Those guys. God bless. David invited me out there TPF He like yeah man come on man I was like all right I mean so I don have a date set You should I haven even gotten the tour yet bastard I'll see if I can schedule up something maybe next month and go check out. Well, I mean, if you're going to be in Houston, you might as well stop by the wormhole. Yeah, exactly. I didn't see what we've got going on here. A couple more questions for you, and then I'll get you out of here. um one we'll deal with criticism one more time okay how has anyone you've criticized a company and ceo or somebody come to you and say hey how do you handle that it's it's always a funny slightly awkward moment when i walk up to a particular designer or coder for that matter. We meet up at Expo. We go to a restaurant. This is what's funny is that I'm well aware that I have a face that a lot of people that don't know me want to punch. I don't know.
    48:17
    I'm well aware of this. I always joke that if me and the wife... I'm laughing with you. Okay. I vomited. I'm well aware of that. I always joke and I always say that if me and my wife were like forced to be in a class together in college and everything to where she had to be around me and get to know me then we wouldn't be married with children or anything like that now and stuff like that because it's like i'm not an instant like and that for youtube that sucks because a lot of the times you basically just get one chance you get one video and they don't like you or don't like the way you look don't like your mannerisms your accent or whatever then it's just like yeah i'm not gonna watch this guy anymore kind of thing and it's like and i still get the negative comments here and there but it's like once these people actually meet me discuss pinball and go back and forth they're like oh okay he may just he looks like an asshole but he's not kind of thing you know so it's like it's like i'm not as bad as a lot of people might think i am and i have met people in some of the bigger manufacturers and then they shake my hand and like oh yeah this is oh they're like oh i know who you are i don't i don't like you and i'm like oh okay well at least you're honest i don't get mad but after we sit down we have a meal we go back and forth and now we're joking around with each other at tpf and everything and stuff you know and i bet other people too we've shaked hands sure and they said they enjoy my cunt i don't think your criticism is comes from a place this is where i like you i don't think it comes from a place where you're trying to get clicks okay that it's bologna and cheese i think it comes from a place where you're saying hey this can be better well can i hold you accountable for it and that there's nothing wrong with that right i just don't have the balloons to do it and so what we do at the wormhole is when we have a machine that comes through here from let's just say a manufacturer that's getting a lot of flack and it's not working i'm just not going to stream so when they call me and they said hey you haven't streamed this and like yeah this is not working you want it to break i mean i know i only get a couple hundred people but you want it to break while they're watching it's not gonna help your sales because that might get me more views it's like we could reminisce about the days of gtf during the streams and stuff like that it doesn't help that's a hell if that's the thing is that like like you said when you're streaming the game the one of your main objectives is to represent the product to its best abilities kind of thing and the game breaking down in the middle of the stream and you have to constantly take the glass off every time you take that glass off it's not good kind of thing and yeah so but like yeah dealing with the criticism kind of thing it's like yeah i i don't harp on any particular company more than others i don't think i do at least if i do it's not due to malice intent okay and it's like Because every company, they've got to do what they've got to do. Every company, whether they want to admit it right now, is struggling. The economy is the way it is. Every company is trying to figure out a way to get money out of our pockets into theirs in order for them to stay alive. And it's funny to me that just some people don't know that yet. But talking to people in the industry, it's there.
    51:37
    The market is soft the way it is when it comes to selling used games. the new games aren't selling as much as they were during covid because people are being much more picky about what they're buying where their money is going i think if a machine is going to sell great then it needs to check every box that does i mean especially also they don't have room people don't have room yeah that's what i was just saying so upcoming game towards the end of the year i'm probably gonna finally be able to sell or get rid of some of the other games because i gotta make room for that and it's like that's where it's gotten for me is like space real estate you know so i've got to get rid of a game or two to put another game in here kind of thing and i'm trying my damnedest to not impulse buy or sell one of my games to get me an iron maiden for whatever reason i am like champing at the bit right now to play iron maiden because i was playing it at tpf and i was like i don't know why i just want to play this game i love iron maiden yeah because it's great music and i'm like it ain't about the music it's just how it plays and i love how it plays and for whatever reason i just really want to play that game some more just play run to the hills a hundred times who gives a shit run the hills of fun who doesn't like run to the hell a lot of icarus and i'm like i know that ramp to the pops is the bane of that game was like i can't ever hit it i know that's true what uh i see a world cup soccer in the back yeah that's my favorite That's my first machine. I was telling Colin. Colin Alzheimer has one too. Just realized I had the beat.
    53:09
    Still left the pin shield on that one for whatever reason there. Now it looks a little better behind me. It just speaks to me. What machine are you playing more these days? What's speaking to you? I've been going lately back and forth between Deadpool and Foo Fighters.
    53:27
    It's like I'm going back and forth. and I guess a part of me, because one of the main reasons why I got a Deadpool was because the local family center that has a Deadpool, the machine's been broken. I haven't been able to thoroughly enjoy it. I'm like, well, if I can't, I wanted to get my Deadpool fixed, but if I can't play on a game that's working, then I'll have to get the damn game myself. They've recently fixed their game. So I'm like, hmm, now that I can go there to get my Deadpool fixed, maybe I might trade Deadpool for something. I don't know. We'll see. but it's like as of right now i've been kind of going back and forth because the 1.0 code came up for food fighters and i thought i knew how to play that game i don't know how to play it yeah but the new the new code if you don't know how to play it it'll tell you how to play it it's really better right the dude tells you what to do i know like i said i thought i knew how to play it and then all of a sudden he's like shoot this to get that i'm like i know honestly Why can't I have an Alexa on every single game?
    54:25
    I would be so much better than 2350th in the world in competitive family. Hold my hand. Let me show you how to play this game kind of thing. We want to play a game. We want to have a tournament here where we have a caddy. And the caddy stands next to you basically doing Alexa moves, telling you where to shoot. What you're shooting for right now? Yeah, don't shoot. Yeah, what you're shooting, that's a horseshoe on the sword of fear. You're wasting your time here, James. It looks pretty. The flashers, yeah, but you're getting no point. Because we just got a Star Wars premium in. Okay. And John bought it because he got sick and tired of kids beating us in competitive pinball on it because we don't know what the hell we're doing. Yeah. And within really 30 minutes of playing it and knowing that you have to move the multiplier to the shot that you want to hit, that's a game changer. I see people play that, and it's like it's almost a whole workout. it's like i've seen people just hitting that damn action button going back and forth and it's just like i'm like that seems like a lot of work to play it is a lot of work to figure it out but once you do that can be a fun game it is but you have to be able to press the multiplier and then you've blown up firefighters there's a lot of shit on that front button but anyway uh you don't play competitive pinball do you i did one tournament i think i still have my little trophy over here but uh yeah look at that second place a barry osler's uh second place c division so um whatever we can cross that c out this is 2022 that's the only like official like tournament that i've ever been in and that's when i learned that it's that's not for me it's like i am way too impatient it's like you have all these machines in front of me and it's like i have to wait my turn to play or whatever kind of thing i want to play now and it's like yeah My attention span is so short these days as well as a lot of people's. It's like I have to stand there and wait. I take my kids Ritalin, and it really helps through the competitive. No, I don't, but I should.
    56:29
    But you're right. It is a lot of sitting and waiting around for your turn. It's weird here because really our capacity is 50 people. So we ask people to sit outside because it just gets too cramped in here, especially in June, July. But as we're growing, and I think they're doing a big article on us and a big magazine, and that's not going to be good for us. And when it comes to competition, I mean, you know, especially when you're playing the game, some people take it very seriously. And it's like, it depends on where their mindset's at, you know, and I find myself someone that can find a joke anywhere or like to, I mean, I'm not going to go over there to tickle you while you're playing or anything like that but you know i i mean i might be a little vocal or whatever and some people you know they need a full concentration got their earphones on or whatever and this is like they are there to do this nothing else kind of thing and it's just like okay i mean so not everyone's like that in the no no listen it's a good community it's just it's a different it's a time suck number one and it is if you're not competitive and you're just here to party, there's a balance. I try to stick in the middle.
    57:47
    And that's where I feel like I would be much more of a casual tournament guy. Like, all right, carry your turn. Like, all right. And if I lose, oh, man. And that's the thing also. I usually watch my language. A lot of the times if I'm really into a game, I'll blurt out a curse word loud. You could swear here, I think. I swear. We got a couple of kids, but they know the deal. They know the dealio. Dallas is a little more serious than DFW. they tell us not to swear in front of the kids. I don't want to drop an F-bombs or anything, but a little shit once in a while.
    58:18
    Before we leave, is there anything you'd like to plug? I guess the only thing to plug is basically you can find me on YouTube, Kerry Hardy on YouTube. I mean, you can Google Kerry Hardy. And he comes right on up. He's a first pager. I think it's the first thing. You guys can figure that out. It's not real hard. Have you ever been to the Houston Arcade Expo? uh no i tell people the people tell me every year i get handed the the pamphlets and all that kind of stuff every year at tpf i know one of the guys that uh helps run the place and stuff but it's like uh it's usually like right after the expo in chicago yeah it is it's like it's like i already use pto and everything when it comes to work for that whole weekend and it's like man it's like Maybe I might schedule off a Saturday or some time to go actually down there and visit it because I hear that it's mainly a party. Well, I think it's an expo. And a mask as a party or a party mask as an expo. Maybe that's where that's. Yeah, I think it's more of a party than any anything else. It just says it's already a bunch of pinball machines. Yeah, it's awesome.
    59:25
    I don't know what to say. What could be wrong? It's horrible. Everybody's like, oh, you got to go. You got to go. And I'm like, you know, maybe I can get down there. The joint is like you should come on a Saturday, right? Spend one night, drive back Sunday afternoon because you're going to sleep in because you'll be up till two or three in the morning playing pinball. I mean, Scott Denise is a DJ and he's awesome.
    59:48
    He's awesome. Yeah. I guess a mass dude with Atari 2600 making music. I mean, how do you beat that? That's hard. He does. He has an Atari 2600. It's some guy named Atari 2600 guy, not Denise. see some guy named that's like what i've never seen him do that no no no he does uh his uh switch whatever the board and yeah he's got all kinds of he's got all kinds of shit that he does he's unbelievable but some guy in called atari 2600 mad or mad atari or something gets up there and jams it whatever uh well you need to one day when you do come to houston if you do go to the barrels come to the wormhole we are building a museum here it's coming up called wormhole east It's a 14,000 square foot building that's going to be in downtown, and it is going to be called the Wormhole East Museum or something to that extent. And we'll have 125 pins, some that the world's never seen.
    60:46
    And it's going to be honestly a destination, and it's another reason why we just want to spread the love for pinball and what we show people, this unbelievable collection that Tim and John have. I'd like to go to the pinball museum in Vegas but I've been hearing mixed reviews about it yeah that's a no for you so I'll be critical of them and that would be because nothing ever works and the lady in there is just the meanest human being on the planet do you think you have resting I know I've got resting bitch face forget it Forget it. Why are you so mad? I'm not mad. I'm just thinking. No, no, no. For real, just. She's the, that lady's the Google image of it.
    61:38
    She's just miserable. And, you know, kids running around and then no running. I mean, they're kids. They're going to run. It's a pinball place. They're excited. And nothing ever works. And no, this place is going to be unbelievable. and if anyone that's ever been to the wormhole take that 2.0 is going to be just an unbelievable and if anyone that knows christine boot is going to be designing it they know it's going to be awesome so that will be a ribbon cutting in 2026 that you're going to have to come down and use it's not that far five hours i plan on i'll i'll i'll let's get a hold of uh david over there at barrels and see if i could schedule sometime in may to go down there visit and while I'm down there, I'll hit you. Absolutely. Might even hit up Turner Pinball. I mean, because they're down there as well and stuff, just to see what. They're in San Antonio, right? Yeah, they're not too far. Yeah.
    62:32
    No, it's less. Yeah, just make a loop. Make a loop. Kerry, thanks again for coming on the podcast. It was a lot of fun, man. I really enjoyed it. Please visit Kerry Harden on YouTube and all the socials. Please keep up all the good work that you're doing, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, Jamie. This was fun. Thanks. All right.
    62:50
    Thank you.