Pinball Mod Talk Episode 15 - Interview with Karel @ The Pinball Mod Factory

In Before the Lock Live Streams·video·1h 14m·analyzed·Jun 18, 2024

Analysis

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TL;DR

TPMF interview reveals mod production journey, design philosophy, and why Alien dominates custom mod market.

Summary

In Before the Lock episode 15 features Rob Wrath (Electric Playground) and Davey Price (Stumblor Mods) interviewing Karel and Peter from The Pinball Mod Factory (TPMF), a Dutch mod manufacturing duo. They discuss TPMF's journey from December 2022 to producing 125+ units of their Alien stasis chamber mod across eight production runs, their design process using 3D printing and resin casting, quality-focused packaging, and why Alien attracts significantly more mods than thematically rich games like Elton John.

Key Claims

TPMF started modding in December 2022 and has produced over 125 units of the Alien stasis chamber across eight production runs
high confidence · Karel states: 'I think we started somewhere in December of 22...with the stat the face hugger uh St stasis stasis sorry stasis uh I mean you've done you've done eight runs of that now 125 orders is that about that about yeah a little bit more than 125'
Karel and Peter are both IT consultants by trade with backgrounds in model building and mechanical engineering respectively
high confidence · Carol: 'we're both it guys for all our lives we're both independent contractors we both work in it as a Consultants or large companies' and Peter: 'my my education was uh mechanical engineering so I also did AutoCat'
Davey damaged his Jaws PSU by installing an incorrect fan with too high RPM before a show, causing the machine to shut off mid-broadcast
high confidence · Davey explains: 'I tried to change them over and I did um but then you'll notice I don't know whether you noticed in the show but my jaws turned off halfway through the show um yeah my uh I think I I think I killed my uh my PSU in Jaws'
The Netherlands has one of the largest pinball clubs in the world (Dutch pinball organization), which contributes to a strong pinball scene despite the country's small size
medium confidence · Karel: 'the Netherlands has the largest uh club in the world uh um with people uh in the in the pinball scene so the Dutch pinball organization I think is one of the largest in the world'
Shipping costs from Netherlands to US are prohibitively expensive for small mods ($10-20 parts requiring $20 shipping), which led TPMF to develop higher-value lit versions instead
high confidence · Peter: 'sending stuff to the uh us is is very costly...it's a $10 $20 piece probably and then you have to pay $20 to get it uh across the pond so let's do something different'
TPMF uses Bambu Lab and Creality 3D printers, with Bambu Lab being significantly faster and enabling multi-color printing
high confidence · Carol: 'I bought a bamboo lab uh a printer with a multicolor unit on it uh which is lightning fast it's it's incredible' and 'I'm working with with the bumo lab and it works great'

Notable Quotes

“every mod is handmade and each batch we make I make them in batches of 10 we used to do that every batch has a different story a different problem a different uh thing to come over and figure out”
Rob Wrath (Electric Playground)@ 21:15 — Emphasizes the artisanal, non-industrialized nature of mod production and the unpredictability of each batch
“the creative side is maybe 10% of what it means to be a commercial mod maker and you know it's all those other things that you mentioned Carol you know the packaging I mean even even things as as dreary as sending people tracking links for their packages”
Rob Wrath (Electric Playground)@ 31:27 — Articulates the often-overlooked logistical and operational demands of running a mod business beyond creative design
“we really want to bring quality yeah you can print speed saying it's really easy to print something paint it and then say okay this is the mod but we really wanted to every mod we basically sell it should be yeah getting to the next higher level”
Karel (TPMF)@ 27:10 — Explains TPMF's quality-first philosophy and differentiation strategy in the competitive mod market
“I said okay uh I I'm I'm going to make something else uh for it...let's let's also step up our game and then uh Carl came in and said okay let's let's do something with light and uh create a sign”
Peter (TPMF)@ 24:53 — Documents the evolutionary process from simple 3D-printed mods to premium lit acrylic deflector kits
“for me it was also always the idea to to have that business together and then with with Peter with the three of us it's perfect because we basically can cover uh everything that is needed”
Karel (TPMF)@ 29:09 — Highlights how TPMF's three-person team (Karel, Peter, and daughter Anna) enables full coverage of creative, technical, and business functions

Entities

Rob WrathpersonDavey PricepersonKarelpersonPeterpersonAnnapersonMelvin WilliamspersonThe Pinball Mod Factory (TPMF)companyElectric PlaygroundcompanyStumblor Modscompany

Signals

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manufacturing_signal: TPMF has scaled production using multiple Creality and Bambu Lab 3D printers with networked Sonic Pad interface, demonstrating deliberate investment in production capacity for batch manufacturing of 10+ units per production cycle
high · Carol describes owning Reality 5 and 3 series printers, Sonic pad interface for dual-printer operation, and newer Bambu Lab multicolor printer 'lightning fast' - total setup enables parallel production
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product_concern: Early Alien stasis chamber production revealed significant yield problems with resin casting—incorrect resin type caused opacity, figure cracking, and paint adhesion failures across multiple iterations; required supplier consultation and material switching to achieve acceptable quality
high · Peter details multiple failed batches due to resin clarity, cracked figures, poor paint adhesion requiring 48-hour wait to identify failures; switched to higher-density resin formulation after consulting manufacturer
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design_innovation: TPMF developed premium lit Alien deflector kit using engraved acrylic panels with edge-lit LED design, escalating from simple 3D-printed static pieces to higher-value aesthetic upgrade combining printed structural parts with precision acrylic signage
high · Karel/Peter describe evolution from $10-20 static plastic mod to lit acrylic version using Photoshop-designed logos engraved into Plexi plates from Dutch manufacturing partner; intentional design to mimic dual-panel lighting technique from Karel's game room
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community_signal: TPMF's Alien stasis chamber achieved 125+ orders across eight production runs despite initial plans to produce limited quantities; continuous customer requests ('do you still have one') suggest sustained demand exceeding expected market absorption
high · Karel: 'every time we think okay that this is it we're done now up to the next one and then we get someone either by PM or in the topic ah do you still have one'

Topics

3D Printing Technology and CAD DesignprimaryPinball Mod Manufacturing and Production ScalingprimaryQuality Control and Resin Casting ChallengesprimaryThe Alien (JJP) Game Community and Mod EcosystemprimaryEuropean Pinball Scene and Shipping EconomicssecondaryCommercial Operations and Logistics in Mod BusinesssecondaryThemed Design Philosophy and Artistic DirectionsecondaryCustom Packaging and Brand Buildingsecondary

Sentiment

neutral(0)

Transcript

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[Music] [Applause] what's up guys welcome welcome to episode 15 of in before the lock man that music is just cut off right there it's over baby I'm Rob with the Electric Playground and we've got Davey with stumbler and lots of guests today so super excited how you doing Davey I'm all right man I'm yeah I'm good thanks uh London's finally turned on the heat we had a nice hot sunny day in London um but unfortunately my games are out of action um see as you can see behind me so I don't I don't have a sexy background like you guys and I'm I've got a bit of uh sexy background Envy going on at the moment um but do you want to Rob do you want to ask me why my games are out of action well I know but you tell me again what's going on you know how you know how you're always giving me [ __ ] about uh how how loud my machines are because of the noisy fans so before the show last week I I I tried to change them over and I did um but then you'll notice I don't know whether you noticed in the show but my jaws turned off halfway through the show um yeah my uh I think I I think I killed my uh my PSU in Jaws as a result of changing out the fan for one that um that it didn't like I think it might have been two high revs or something like that but I I got the uh the part number wrong and then screwed up my PSU so I'm currently waiting for a new one to arrive before my games will be back in Action big Labowski is fine but I just don't want to turn it on in case the same thing happens well you know you're also moving soon so that's exciting we got a big show uh we've got Carol and Peter from the pinball mod Factory Dave you of these guys on a couple weeks ago uh Carol Peter welcome to the show great to have you yeah great to be here hey guys how you going so we go on go ahead David well I was gonna say you know I met uh Carol and uh Peter at uh Expo last year didn't we we sat down uh in the hotel Auditorium outside that beautiful breakfast bar that serves sausage and egg muffins which I still have dreams about and we uh we sat down and we talked about all things modding didn't we yeah yeah and you guys were uh talking to me about mods that you've worked on and your future plans uh for um some alvara mods which we're going to cover in uh Today's Show uh and you know we sparked off a beautiful friendship yeah yeah it was really to uh to to meet in Chicago I think uh we and I discussed it a few times that uh yeah we need to uh need to get involved also in other parts of the of the of the mod making and I think uh yeah you for us were definitely uh a Clear Choice in if we if we go to the root of adding more stuff yeah then we wanted to uh to hook up with someone who was already established and so that was for us was quite easy to uh yeah to follow like meant to for us because we were on this uh path of uh doing things ourself or just buy complete lightning systems and uh you were there on Expo and I said okay we need to talk to you well it's great that you can uh join us today and uh you know really looking forward to um you know hearing about all your history and you know how you got into modding uh and uh but Rob do you want to through the rest of the agenda before we start hitting up yeah yeah so uh these guys have some awesome mods both for alv and alien that we're going to go over uh they've got done some other stuff they're going to share with us uh Dave's got a bunch of mods lined up uh for us to go through too from other makers uh Peter and Carol are going to be joining us for that part uh talking through those before we do that let's just talk a little bit about you know the Melvin interview uh Dutch pinball exclusive Melvin Williams was on last week we were talking of about the Allison Wonderland game and you guys are based in the Netherlands too is that right yeah and that's correct you know Melvin is you guys all playing pinball together what's what's the story there uh not playing pinball together but we know Melvin we also know bar from this pinball uh he was also there in Chicago and Melvin was also there at Expo U so yeah we uh we talk regularly to each other it's not like we uh see each other weekly but we know them and we talk to them yeah that's correct I I joke because we were talking about in the pre-show how small the Netherlands is uh but there's regardless to the size uh very big scene there it seems like any any thoughts on why that is what's kind of made that such a a great place for pinball I don't know because I think the Netherlands has the largest uh club in the world uh um with people uh in the in the pinball scene so the Dutch pinball organization I think is one of the largest in the world so why no idea did you guys did you guys grow up playing pinball Peter did you did you used to like when you were a kid when you go to arcades with pinballs at yeah I went to arcades but I was more into the video games at that time same I know there were pinball machines somewhere around it should have been The Adams Family around that parot or something but uh I like out run and paper boy and that kind of games so uh yeah I think we all sort of fell into that category and um I think it was only later in life uh you know when I started going to bars and and drinking that I really got uh turned on to to pinball machines and you know it's a similar story that I hear from a lot of people it was for me yeah so for me it was a friend who had some machines Lord of the Rings and uh Pirates of the Caribbean the stern one and I was just amazed by uh the world on the glass and then he said H when when I moved into this house we had some uh room and I said now I get a pinball machine and uh it's still there it's the Indiana Jones I got uh it's about 10 years ago and then I got into the the Dutch uh pinball Association uh got to meet people and then I uh I met Carol uh on one of the evenings where I was invited I think we didn't have a click in the first place it was a bit of uh tell us more about that who didn't like who that's what I want to know it was a not that open uh the guy who introduced us is a ongoing guy so yeah we uh and but after a while we got to know each other and we found out we have similar Hobbies similar ideas in life and stuff like that so you talk a lot of those on those Friday evenings we we first sit down with some coffee and and finally we're going to play some pinball normally so uh yeah we talk a lot right so tell us about tell us about tpmf like what's the the first mod you guys did how long have you guys been doing this I'm curious I was talking with my daughter a lot about mod making she's really creative and so we had a lot of ideas uh before before I talked with Peter about it so but she was already in in in College University doing her uh exams and and learning so she didn't have a lot of time to do it so also start talking with Peter about it and he had some ideas also so yeah when naturally basically we said okay let's do it let's just start because yeah you have a lot of ideas but getting from idea to actually making something building something and that's that's another phase uh and I think that's where we basically started I think we started somewhere in December of 22 uh with talking about it and then yeah I think it went wrong when uh Carl uh sold his 3D printer to me I wasn't into 3D printing and he said uh I have an old 3D printer and uh you you can have it uh for a very uh cheap pro I said oh let's get get that into my home and I'll I'll check get out and then I realized that you could do so much fun stuff with it so uh but basically in the beginning you're just looking at the thingy first and stuff like that printing it and and checking it and then the painting came in and then H we realized okay now we're on to something and in the first part yeah you just made it for friends and everybody who was interested in a mod and I think the first mod I did for Carl was uh in the Batman uh the the building in the back that was already a mod like that but it's for us in the Netherlands it's very expensive to get an American mod over here so uh if it's just something that's just printed and painted I say ah we can do that I I've been in model building uh for all my life and uh I bought an airbrush and checking with that and stuff like that so that was the the first uh mod I did uh also created myself completely uh first in Tinker cat easy creation just putting things together and then uh yeah we started uh I actually I started only making mods for myself and uh when I got my alien machine then uh yeah I had so many ideas about what we could do so that started it off it's interesting it's interesting that you mentioned Tinker CAD because that's what you use isn't it Rob yeah I mean I it does does the trick um I'm sure there's better things out there uh better curves and stuff but it's a lot of the stuff I'll make in other programs and then just kind of import it and assemble it in Tinker CAD so definitely and it's free the the the demo that you gave to us the other day Rob just in terms of the mechanical assembly of the parts and moving them to together and apart um was really impressive I mean I think I might have mentioned in that show that I use Fusion 360 um and I'm sure it's probably got similar features um but they're not they're not something that I've explored or that I used or that I use on on a on a regular basis but I could see a real benefit in that um I think uh when we were watching I think it might have been the Jaws uh behind the scenes sort of tech interview um they were giving you know amazing demonstrations of the the moving drop Target assembly and pulling all the parts out together and stuff and it was just so impressive to see you know how they do everything on such a monu scale um but it's really interesting Peter when you said before about um how being in the Netherlands sort of makes it quite prohibitive to get get mods in and you know the shipping and you know the cost and the conversion or whatever um and you know that's that's that was a really interesting statement because that's that in fact that's the exact reason I got into modding as well um was uh you know seeing something and essentially trying to replicate it but make it better um the chase echo which was a Creature from the Black Lagoon Chase board um that I did was was that exact thing I saw somebody had done it and I just wanted to see if I could do it so that's that's a really interesting uh entry point I suppose for modding yeah especially when it's the 3D part and and and you can paint it the way you like it and you can scale it the way you like it then then it's especially yeah useful to do it yourself if it's with more things and more Tech in it then yeah you just have to pull the trigger and get the original uh because I cannot make everything myself and and and the chas E go Bo I also bought from yourself cool cool uh can you guys hear me yeah yeah my back great so uh yeah so Peter I'd love to see some of the stuff uh you guys have worked on I know there's been some things you haven't brought to Market but got to look at this uh elvir mod uh and I I saw you did a black and white version so I love some of the attention to detail give us a give us a peek at what you've been up to yeah uh yeah we can share my screen so we started with uh the alien stasis chamber and uh can provide you a Proto of it that was the first iteration of us uh and it was just for my machine and then I got some pictures on pinside and everybody was saying oh that's cool that's nice I need to have that Etc and then I said to Carl he we had this idea of getting into the M business I said to Carl okay if we have one already where a certain demand is for then this would be the one and it was a a re mix of an existing one and uh finally we got to a version where we made it with rods and yeah you see some production uh he we we print it all we designed a valve on top of it uh we designed special lead holders uh for beneath it so we started to make more iterations and I I know the first time when Carol and and I were sitting with a bunch of 3D printed parts and we said oh we need to all uh rework it a bit and I said oh it would be nice if we had rods on it it would look cooler and I say ah let's print some uh some studs and we we just glue it on there and uh after an hour of uh working we decided this is not going to be the way I need to redesign everything and every went thing went into the trash can I said okay let's start over and go with a a completely new design so yeah whole day gone but uh we managed to get out of there uh so used resin did you as the as the substrate in the yeah now it's it's really interesting that resin use cuz it's got like little air bubbles in it doesn't it now was that was that an intentional thing did you guys intentionally put them there or is that just how it came out it was uh intentional to do so because I liked it to be like in the movie there is some bubbles there but uh I can uh show you uh what failure looks in that department because uh please yeah we we I guess is even better than success yeah because on my table I have all the versions that didn't make it okay all right cool let's save them so yeah we have yeah these are almost there is one in there and it's all pain that is and and sometimes it looks like oh this is a good one but then the figure inside just cracked or yeah these all are uh not going into uh in the production uh for that reason so we hadot uh testing there I was going to say is that different were you using different types of resin there to achieve result or did you I I used the first one H the first one was uh uh really okay I thought oh that's that's the one I need and uh so this is the uh the original it's a it's a bit bigger and I don't know if I got just a bad batch or something but uh it went from all kinds of uh ways we got clear ones we didn't get clear ones and the pain is the figure yeah you have to uh print it you have to paint it you have to bend it and when you bend it some of the arms fall off and you can not use it anymore and then finally it's in there and you pour it the resin and then you have to wait like 48 hours and then you see the result and then you can say okay uh all the ones that I P can now go into the trash can again because uh it's not working when you have it lit up from beneath and you just don't see the figure so we we we we got with another resin I got in touch with the manufacturer and they also said yeah no it's the same recipe and everything but then uh yeah we got with a another density resin and that worked until now better but uh I'm always that's one of the parts that I dislike the most is the pouring because yeah after that you just know when it's screwed up everything or not yeah it's it's really funny isn't it because I was just you know that was one of the things that I thought I wonder if they just like bought a resin and it turned out that good immediately or not so it's really it's really good to hear that that wasn't the case because it's never that way for me never it's never and that's what people also think oh you make a mod and you just reproduce it well it's not that easy because every mod is handmade and each batch we make I make them in batches of 10 we used to do that every batch has a different story a different problem a different uh thing to come over and figure out so uh yeah [Music] well we had a question from Rundle about your 3D printer maybe you could tell us a little bit about the tools you're using yeah that's for Carl well we started out with um with the with the normal 3D printers everyone has I think of have uh reality and reality yeah we we started with reality printers the five and the three series The which basically work fine I mean uh but I wanted more speed and I wanted to have more more uh more print options more volume so I bought the second one and then I installed also the Sonic pad of reality so you can have uh two printers working on the on on the same interface that helped a lot with with with production of of of Parts um later on I bought a bamboo lab uh a printer with a multicolor unit on it uh which is lightning fast it's it's incredible so um p is still working with reality yeah and I I'm working with with the bumo lab and it works great yeah and it's also good to have two versions of printers because sometimes a part doesn't come out the way it should be on Carl's printer and then I print it and I say oh it's fine with me I don't know what I've done then with the settings or what else but then so we we we shift back and forth sometimes yeah yeah I mean working out a 3D printer settings is an occupational in itself I think you know um it is intense um but uh so uh so the first two mods we'll get to the second one in just a bit um actually yeah let's let's just continue do you want to you want to just keep taking me through the photos and then I'll ask my questions yeah I'll take you through the photos so uh the the second one was the alien deflector kit and it actually uh I I I created it because I had had a problem with uh the ramp in Alien where my ball always flew off it it just had too much speed so I said okay uh I I just need to extend that ramp a bit but yeah I can do it with a plastic and and just yeah uh and then I said oh I I'm I'm going to make something else uh for it and uh I created a version uh with it that uh was just a static piece of plastic which I painted I have an example here so that was the the first iteration actually and I thought uh okay it uh it works well you you can see even where the ball hits the the the 3D print and uh I said okay uh let's do that and again I posted it on pinside and people said oh that's a good uh option uh please get me something but for us also sending stuff to the uh us is is very costly so H so uh it's back and forth uh so I said yeah we can do this print it's a it's a$ 10 $20 piece probably and then you have to pay $20 to get it uh across the pond so let's do something different there let's let's also step up our game and then uh Carl came in and said okay let's let's do something with light and uh create a sign and and do a lit version he had a like a pinball logo in his game room with the same Technique we said oh let's let's see if he we can do that and yeah Carl uh is our uh purchasing guy so he uh got in touch with manufacturers to see what we could do and also the first one was completely wrong because we just printed it not backwards so that's also something you learn yeah so uh yeah Carl maybe you can talk something about it yeah I designed it in Photoshop okay is that EDG lit acrylic Carol that you yeah it's acrylic yeah what I did is I created two signs uh I had to ask Peter because I'm not into the alien world so needed to know okay which which logos do I need to make and he told me and then I make them in uh in Photoshop and I had the idea from my game room where you have got two glass panels and each panel is LD in a different color and you get a kind of effect and I said to pet well let's do something like that if possible I didn't know what the minimum size was and stuff so I found a company in the Netherlands and I sent them the logo and said I want to have uh engraved uh Plexi uh plates so yeah like Pete told said the first one was wrong it was basically mirrored so if you put it in it looked idiotic and um then we got a new version and yeah BAS was exactly what I expected and and wanted it looked really sharp really cool it's really difficult to show in on screen if you see it in in in in in real life it's it's really clear really sharp um yeah and I thought that this is the way to go so when we had that design of of the Plexi and Peter created the the the the whole 3D model for for for the plastic yeah then it was uh then we had basically what we want because for me and also for p and also for my daughter on is also part of TMF yeah we really want to bring quality yeah you can print speed saying it's really easy to print something paint it and then say okay this is the mod but we really wanted to every mod we basically sell it should be yeah getting to the next higher level uh and this was for me was really clear that it was yeah what I wanted and we basically all three said okay this is the way to go uh we had a a question uh just about about your guys' background um in engineering and design what what led you guys to to be able to do this uh creativity because we're both it guys uh for all our lives uh we're both independent contractors we both work in it as a Consultants or large companies but I always like to draw when I was young and I think I don't know but I think pet also was telling uh some modeling uh and stuff like that uh making model planes and and and putting stuff together was always one of my interest so I think there together done with having pinballs and seeing all kinds of ideas uh I think that's what basically started it um and Photoshop well to be honest I did uh my my education was uh mechanical engineering so I also did AutoCat uh I know how to work with Alat also don't use it now but I know how to uh how to use it all for three-day modeling and stuff like that it's uh yeah but we're working active yeah car you mentioned your daughter is Anna is also part of tpmf um and what's is she studying at the moment is she no she's finished yeah she finished she's now working uh at a museum because that's the field of expertise she uh studied uh she's now working there and uh this we already knew that the moment she was finished with schools she would also join us because she's really creative uh we'll tell you about that later but yeah for me it was also always the idea to to have that business together and then with with Peter with the three of us it's perfect because we basically can cover uh everything that is needed all right and um now the the stat uh the face hugger uh St stasis stasis sorry stasis chamber stasis um stasis St status status um I mean you've done you've done eight runs of that now 125 orders is that about that about yeah a little bit more than 125 every time we think okay that this is it we're done now up to the next one and then we get someone either by PM or in the topic ah do you still have one or sure and then I talk to Peter again and I I'm a bit how do you say it the driving force behind all the the the the selling and the packaging and and and because it's a lot of work on the backside also so people see the the mod and they think okay yeah pay the mod and you get the mod but we were really also in the beginning really keen on quality so we really went over packaging materials colors we use in packaging materials logos for the sticker we wanted to use uh company name stuff like that um so yeah it's like I said it's really easy see more mod makers yeah they make a mod uh it's really popular but they don't have the capacity to make more of them so they basically put it on pinside people want one uh they get the orders in and then they figure out hey I cannot do this because it's I don't have the time uh I don't know how to send stuff outside of of Europe and that's all things we basically uh looked into before we started so I know exactly what What shipping labels uh what the the the amount of money was for certain countries boook sizes uh packaging yeah and I like that also that part of it because it gives it yeah makes it a toal production uh which is really handy that you do because I mean like you say um you know you know I guess we all got into this because of the creative side you know we want to create something we want to be part of the pinball World in some small way and contribute to it um but the creative side is maybe 10% of what it means to be a commercial mod maker and you know it's all those other things that you mentioned Carol you know the packaging I mean even even things as as dreary as sending people tracking links for their packages even even just making sure the right sticker goes on the right box you know there's a there's a process to be followed with all that stuff and if you don't follow it and you get it wrong it can cause big problems you know it takes so long to correct them sometimes so you know you're quite right so I think it's important be we we pulled up uh we pulled up your your your packaging I love the the striping waffle uh touches there's a lot of snack there's a lot of snack giving in pinball I love that yeah that's a that's a funny story there because uh buob on the pin fight he's a well-known character on on and he and he sent me a PM privately and he said yeah and I got the little strob baffles this how you pronounce got strob waffles and uh I ate them didn't give him too much grandchildren I said listen if you buy another I will sent you lots of of throw so basically becoming kind of inside joke so the next mult he bought that was the deflector kit I think I put eight in in a little note that list you can give them to your grandchildren and don't be don't feel sorry s really funny but yeah it's it's a small thing I mean it's two stroke waffles but people like it it's from the Netherlands it's it's our way of saying thanks and makes it a little more joyer to to open and another thing I really liked was there was was a customer customer there was someone in in the states got the package and he's he posted that also on pinside he said I thought his wife was in Paris probably doing shopping and he said I thought it would look so nice that I thought that my wife was sending something back from Paris uh to to to his home so later on she could open it so that was really funny yeah he thought he thought his wife uh spent a lot of money at Gucci instead it was um so so before we move on uh to what you guys have done with CU really excited to talk about that um I'm kind of curious you know I I don't have alien I guess both of you guys do uh we had a episode a couple weeks ago where we were covering uh Pulp Fiction and Elton John and we were talking about how like there was basically no mods for for either of those machines but you look at alien whether what you're doing I mean there's aprons there's alternate back glasses what do you what do you attribute this what I would consider a huge amount of mods for this game compared to other titles that probably have a similar amount of units in Market yeah so I I I started playing alien of course the highway version uh friend of ours got that uh on loan because it was very uh hard to repair but he got it managed to repair it and uh they said oh you can get it for really cheap but I was not like okay the company is dead I don't know know the surface I don't know anything about it leave it but the theme was always interesting to me especially the mechanics in there with the tongue and everything and and the whole experience so I was like okay uh leave it and then uh pimball Brothers came out with oh we're going to do the rerun uh it's a new version and uh first wasn't that really into and I think they had it on uh Expo 2022 I wasn't there but I saw the the movies from it and I was say whoa this is a nice machine uh I have one place left I have the money uh it was in a time that uh pinball machines weren't going down in value so I said let's let's just put it in there and see what happens and uh by chance yeah a friend uh distributor uh which I buy a lot of machines from he was also starting up that distribution he said oh I know I have them so he brought me an an LV uh which I have now for over almost three years or something and yeah it's it's it's only getting better with the new code uh the Rippy Edition that was uh uh came uh last year on the market uh I I really like it uh it's also something yeah each pinball machine you have machines that fit you you just can find the shots and you have ones that I don't even like uh for me I'm I'm I'm not that kind of big elwin fan so I'm uh staying away from them uh a bit I had Jurassic Park but there was no click with me on the shots I couldn't get good progress on the modes Etc and I do on on the alien machine but some people who come here just think it's clunky and but the immersiveness the world on the glass the mods you can make for it because there is a lot of room it's a white body yeah that's that's that that was for me to get into it yeah so you're saying you think uh there's there's space on the Playfield to add stuff um and the world itself lends itself well to mods I suppose I suppose it's it's it's you know you know I think you know the darkness of the game but then with the green of the the you know the world and I mean you know that the I mean you guys are aware of the apron mod you know with the acid holes and stuff and the green shining through it's a really great effect isn't it and you know a lot of people have done that with your stasis mod too haven't they so you know brought out that sort of that glowing sort of slimy sort of green color um but yeah it's um you think that go on go on Carol no the question of course was why isn't that happening for example for u u Elton John fiction Elton John P fiction but if if you for example look at an Elon John it's a beautiful game H it's it's it's lightning and everything it looks perfect and I played we played it several times um the CE and and and Platinum version um but if you look at alien I think it's more a theme people like way relate to alien and stuff like that and to be honest I think Elton J if you look at it I could not imagine what you would create for a mod for it I mean things that you couldn't imagine are already in there the the the girl dancing and and the rocket and the crocodile so yeah I don't know I think yeah the the drive to create something for Elton John way less than to create something for example for a theme uh like a Marvel movie or an alien movie at least I think that was also is come to play if you look at creating mods yeah I mean the atmosphere the atmosphere is great I mean I I I imagine people that are equally into Elton and equally into alien as in two different people they're going to have a lot more toys laying around that are alien than they have Elton so I know for me and for most people like you end you you start by putting your own crap in there and then you get the good stuff um and uh you guys are making some awesome stuff even though you're putting stuff in things which is what we all do um you're doing it on a higher level so very cool um and and of course it's been around a long time so maybe maybe Dave we just gotta be more patient we we'll see what happens Well yeah if you also go to ComiCon or something yeah the alien brand is still alive there e even after so many years and I didn't see Elton John there but it's a nice game and really yeah yeah do you Peter do you want to show us uh what you're working on for Alvar I'll let you let you get it C up yes so and Carol this is one that your daughter did a lot of work on I I kind of come together yeah yeah really yeah yeah we were ready with the uh the the deflector kit and we said okay uh and and Carl came with the idea uh we need something behind that house in uh in in alvir the house is very Central there is a lot of room uh around it and and we said oh we the best thing is to get gapa angry it's a mode and he should come out behind the house and and and when the mode is on it should trigger that so that's what we first thought like okay uh let's make that uh let's see how we can do that and then Anna came in she was just graduated so she had some time and she is yeah really good with sculpting and getting a Joshua Clay model and we actually uh we sent her two pictures of the the the back the trans light that this is gapa angry because Carl already bought one from Tokyo it was a complete figure so there are a lot of angries around in the world um so we got there and uh and we said okay uh we we need to do something with it but again when it the idea was to have it moving the idea was to have it come behind that uh house uh but then we said yeah you don't go to gapa Angry every time uh you don't start a mod every time you play the the machine so let's get him fixed behind the house but let's do something with lightning uh the lights behind it and that's when uh yeah we we just were heading to Expo and uh we saw Davey in the cafe eating his croissant I thought that's the guy we need he he knows something about Arduino and stuff like that and uh so that's what where we uh we got in involved and he said well I have a solution for you uh which uh could be uh very interesting so uh yeah we uh we designed it uh Anna designed it uh Carl got us in touch uh with actually via Barry with a uh a person that casted he did the casts for the the small cars uh on on the top field the big Labowski the big Labowski yeah that's that's the same guy and he said no I can cast that for you and uh I can do a run of uh pieces for you uh and that's uh that's when we got into that so yeah uh it is a wide casted uh bird I don't know if Carl has an uh an example yeah I have an example but it was really great because I had the idea of Thea for really long time for me that was the key mod for Al I always had in my mind before we started the company not the company the mod company I had in my mind uh I want the Kaa H but yeah that's the easiest thing to say yeah I want the Kaa but there are no kaas who are exactly like on the on the backlots um then I talked with Anna and we had the idea and I was blown away yeah because pet and I were walking in Chicago we left and she was at home and uh she bought a special modeling Joshua Clay they use for example hotto and companies like that and she sent those photos and we were basically blown away because they she made a clim model and it was exactly as HOA so it was yeah it was really mind-blowing that she did that in in a relatively short time I think she was working on it for I don't know two weeks or something and also that the detail of the hands and stuff so yeah it was really great to see something that which was not existent uh all of a sudden coming to life so yeah she made this basically this is the the the costing the the from the Joshua Clay model so I had to drive there the guy who lives on the other side in the east of the Netherlands so I had the Joshua Clay model and had it first in the freezer because I was afraid it was going to fall into pieces was one a half one and half hours drive to that and then I left the model the claim model and then this came up and this is basically how we get them back and then Anna also does the painting and she does two versions she does the black and white version because yeah we also got questions can you do a black and white version then and the black white black and white version was already coming out the blood red kiss version so we said okay let's do that also uh and and she made the color versions so yeah this is the the color version she makes and this is the black and white version and it's a lot of work because it's a lot of layers it's a lot of blending and it's all done by hand so it's basically roughly three hours per per HOA to paint uh but it was really nice to see the whole process of the idea and actually making a Joshua Clay model because yeah thinker cat Auto cat all the things yeah you you're basically electronically doing something but that she could make it with her hands from only a few photos yeah for me that was really yeah really mind-blowing and it was really great because for me there was also a kind of Revelation we can basically make anything if if you have good photos the sky is the limit now because yeah we can make any model we like so that's that's really great and and and the scary part was he drove to the guy who was going to cost it and he says this model will be destroyed yeah because making the cost will destroy the model so we said okay you should do it one time right really right yeah so so he cast it he cast it to create a master and then he recast that Master is that the way it works doesn't a mold yeah he makes a mold and Kapa is four mold if I say the correct word molds yeah four mold yeah and from that for him he creates HOA so um yeah it was really important he only had one original yeah and those molds they don't they don't uh get destroyed over time they basically sorry basically 2025 and that's it then you have to make a yeah okay so so you would have had to have created a master I suppose that that can then get used on all the mods is that yeah sort of yeah and then that one doesn't get destroyed I suppose when you the ones I showed you are on the originals she keep them for themselves that's show her reference models and then uh we have one forecasting yeah yeah and David you've got this mod uh there in your shop too I think right you want yeah I do do so this is this is quite special so uh the boys uh sent me uh my very own I wish I could pronounce it like you guys do because it's so much cooler than the way I pronounce it I call it gappa but I just sound angry but you say you say Hopper I can't do it get to the chopper no no no it's AER angry theer angry so you you very kindly sent me my own version this is a black and white version cuz I've got aspirations of picking up a blood red kiss which I which I don't have but I got aspirations so that's a first step oh exactly yeah if you if you buy the mods then the game will come you have to buy the machine that's how we lure you in yeah yeah I've got I've got mods for Lord of the Rings and stuff don't have Lord of RS this is just I don't do that I don't buy mods and then for machines I don't have oh I do oh I do okay so um okay so you very kindly sent me on and now uh just so everybody's aware I have not opened this it's a brand new box I did just I did just release the tape earlier um this is going to be an unboxing I've never done an unboxing before so everyone will just have to uh bear with me um and look you can see the got speaking a really high pitch voice while you do this oh my God guys guys look I'm not going to do that anymore cuz that's super annoying okay I never unboxed one so these are the stickers you talking about lot of work into those stickers look at that they're nicely right we've got our uh stro waffles Str waffles yeah WAFF waffles waffles uh right now okay I'm going to have to like wonder if I can do this a bit um okay I'm going to do this just so I can use both hands all right let's unwrap okay so I think this is probably going to be the tech kit isn't it so that's going to be that's going to be my board and the cabling and stuff is this going to beer all the way around all the way around yeah let's do this bit then cuz this is what everyone wants to see nobody wants to see the board in the cers it's a vital part let me uh that's also a lot of tinkering out to get a good instruction video to people because yeah you have to work with cables and get them through the Playfield on certain parts and it's it's always uh very hard to make it understandable for everybody that they can do it themselves yeah well I did see um there was a there was an install done by somebody else for your alien stasis more I was watching earlier really nice was that did you ask him about that or did you just put it together no no he uh I saw that in the in the in the one of the topics and he really made a beautiful insulation video oh man that's okay that's really nice she's done a lovely job of painting on that yeah yeah so it's all dry brushed and yeah blend it in it's got really picky yeah yeah if if Carl is uh ready to uh to pack it and she can say oh give it back to me I give it back because I see a little and i' see nothing you know look like a hoer yeah hoer ho I'm I'm gonna practice that yeah and what's the uh what's the reception been so far guys I mean are you shipping these are people receiving them is it yeah yeah we shipped uh yeah I think we shipped now around 70 75 Hoppers um beginning we got a really really big list uh and we were like oh whoa it's almost uh how do you say it uh you get the pressure of your of your success because you post it on pin side and then you see all the r all the line of people uh wanting one of course a lot of people uh put put themselves on the list and later on if you send them a paym they they don't want it anymore sold their machine stuff like that that will always happen uh yeah but it was good uh we sold a lot of them yeah yeah I mean just Kudos Kudos from my perspective on this one I I really feel like it looks like it should have been there from the beginning which is obviously something we say in mods about the criteria for whether it's going to be successful and this one looks like it just fits in there perfectly um with the alien one I think you've got some of that but a lot of stuff going on with alien already like this one in particular like looks like it's missing without it um so um yeah definitely definitely great fit and also extends the theme right you know not everyone knows alv really well but this is like a missing character um from from the environment so that's that's really cool too yeah that's basically what what I said in the beginning when I looked at a and thinking about MZ I thought there should be a Kaa in the Kaa in the machine um and yeah and then we looked for HOAs and there were a lot of versions already I also talked to a guy in the stage he was said I can make you one uh but it was a totally different HOA and that that was not the idea I really wanted something that if you look at it you say hey that's the one on the on the back loss tell us about tell us about the painting is it a is it both an airbrush and a a a handbrush or is it all hairbrush yeah no it's a no no no it's a the it's a a prime prime coating then uh airbrush and then the the entire AA is painted by hand so really painstakingly either a color version or a black blood Cas version and yeah it takes time because it's really it's really lovely in the it's really lovely In the Flesh guys really impressed very good quality it's nice really really nice yeah yeah like Rob saying it really fits if you put it behind the building and you look at your machine you really think hey should be there and that's what we try to achieve uh and we did a lot of work with Davey also on the on the lights to get the lights correct and uh to get that flaming effect and uh to get some other effect when uh if it's in uh in normal mode and if you hit the switch then there is an other effect so it's really nice uh done yeah it's also a bit of a dark area in the back so it's really nice that was one of my questions actually was how uh exactly annoying was it to work with me the project no to be honest it was I found it quite easy um because we already knew okay we have the col version blood red kiss blood red kiss should be focused on white and red so that's that's seems The Logical Choice and then the color version is a bit orange and red more uh and yeah we we talked a bit over and yeah before we knew but you also have to we had to have to paint version because uh colors and colors do not match always so you can figure out oh I want to have that purple lid but if it's a green bird and with purple color you it's going brown like uh so we really had to figure out okay what's the best color for the colored version and what's the best color for the Black and White Version and the black and white version is more like a metallic one you have that there and it really pops with Lighting on it that is really nice yeah it's really inter Davey Davey you've gotten to open your gift now which is exciting um it's getting late for these guys we've got a bunch of mods to talk about um five minutes so we got are we ready to move on yeah we got burn through this now well these guys are gonna stick around um we cannot wait to see what you guys come up with next um you know there's so many new games coming out so very excited for that and Davey's lined up some mods for us so let's go ahead and get into that [Music] all right we haven't done this in a while we're gonna do our Roundup uh Dave what do you got for us this week I started I started talking over our intro then yeah Okay cool so uh yeah so this week uh there's been two uh Iron Maiden re well strictly speaking the first uh Iron Maiden re theme um is is Rick and Morty 2 now this one uh isn't new this week it's been sort of around for a couple of weeks or whatever but uh alongside Rick and Morty 2 has been uh a game called Legacy of the beasties which is also an i main read theme now have you guys have you guys seen these these these re themes on pinside no I haven't seen those I saw not this one yeah you saw the beasties okay so they're both Iron Maiden re themes um they both used pinball brow to replace all of the um all of the video content all of the audio content they've both received back glass change changes um they' they're both reusing the original uh playfields for the moment I think the Rick and Morty guys like just going us too hard I can't I can't really can't be bothered um and everybody's trying to convince him to do it cuz obviously like it'd be way better if he did and it will be a lot more work but anyway at the moment he's just kind of stuck these stickers on the Playfield and stuff but I think he's changed a lot of Playfield Plastics he's changed out a lot of the stuff uh for um for uh like sort of neon green sort of bits and Bobs and whatever you can see that you know he's got a lot of sort of Rick and Morty content all the you know lots of Rick and Morty callouts etc etc I mean whenever you do one of these things it's a huge amount of work to get it from um go to wo um this is the this is Beast boys um I don't think my sound will be coming through at all so obvious this is currently playing in my ear but probably not your ear is sabotage and there's about 15 other beasty boy songs in this one I love this back glass I think that looks fuing amazing I think if you're a beasty Bo video is not coming through but um it's not we believe you okay not coming true that's a Pity but uh let me try and pull up some uh imagery can you see that yeah yeah so this is a custom back glass as well right custom back glass all video content audio content's being replaced in the game both uh donor machines are Iron Maiden or not or is this a different that's correct yeah both both of them are yeah yeah they're expensive donor machines yeah I know this is the thing right they're really like this is a this is a big I don't know why people are choosing Iron Maiden as the as the re themed D well hang on a minute what is a donor machine and how do I get one you just not a donut machine it's not a donut machine if that's yeah they're doing this one I think they're putting like stickers on on the Plastics and stuff too I'm curious about yeah so yeah okay so this is Bey boy so we've got we've got uh you know General Beasty Boys toys that have been put in the game um I've got no idea how that figure relates to Beasty Boys but I'm sure it does um it's Beast Boys robot what he's done here is he's either stuck stickers or a clear acrylic over the top of the existing Iron Maiden figures to create more Beasty Boys fig uh which is great which is great yeah um as I said before yeah it is labor I mean even just the even just the replacing of the um uh the video and audio content with take an absolute age you know queing everything and timing everything so you know credit to these guys for investing heavily in these projects um what do you reckon guys quick quick hot takes on which is better Rick and Morty 2 or Beasty Boys Legacy of the Boys oh okay we got two to one on that one okay fine um I'm going with beasties as well I'm going to say so 3 sorry Rick and Morty to uh still Amazing Project don't be disheartened by our crap hot takes on both those machines okay so uh also this week is a brand new guy to the top of scene um I don't know his first name sorry but it's his name he goes on a t proo 333 on pinside a bunch of people sent me uh links over pm to to this uh quite an exciting sort of entry into into Topper World um he's done he's revealed two so far one uh being for Godzilla which is this one uh and another being for Jaws which is this one now you can see he's already got a company um Tim Proctor illustration um so he's you know obviously uh industry uh bread um you know probably and props and things like that you can see you know hell of a lot lot of um uh you know skills and technique and stuff that he's bringing to bear on these things especially around uh the way that he's sort of you know uh got that acrylic water happening and the way that he's lighting and things um now have you guys so Rob you're obviously our resident topper expert you uh saw these earlier in the week I did yeah I mean they're amazing I saw they're very limited I think that the Godzilla 10 and the Jaws is five or maybe the other way around um I know he's not advertising the price but I think they're in the like the what 1500 or so range maybe I thought they I thought they were closer to two I mean this is this is an interesting uh sort of aspect to this project I suppose so anytime uh somebody's brought up um that they're interested he's sort of come back and said I'll send you a PM and that sort of happened uh you know numerous times um um and then sort of I guess the last couple of days people have sort of questioned him on that you know why don't you post the price why is it always over PM um and his response to that uh was that you know they're expensive pieces a lot of work goes into them he didn't want to release the price and have it turn into uh a pricing argument within the thread about whether they were worth it or not or whether it was charging too much which is an interesting sort of thing I suppose um and a strategy that I guess nobody's really employed yet now uh when I sort of raised that with you rob earlier um you sort of had a different take on it well I didn't know I didn't know that story and I definitely think that that reasoning is valid but I mean just from a a legal perspective you guys know the term cya over there yeah this is IP infringement with the jaw and stuff like that so he'll be he'll be fine either way but I think you know you don't want to be you know overly advertising something that isn't being used with permission so I think that's look of this this will take a lot of hours painting casting uh this is next level it's a lot of work it's a lot of of them that's a lot of work yeah and I think I think Rob sort of your your opinion on it terms of it being sort of you know the reason why he's not revealing the price I mean considering sort of he looks like he's sort of part of the you know illustration industry I don't know sort of what aspect well I just think there's no reason to add with doing something so limited you know you're going to sell them there's no reason to add any scrutiny to this on any level and it sounds like he was doing that both from just not wanting the conversation to get Negative the price is I mean it's it's a great deal you know you're getting something that's One of a Kind effectively like you said the painting is took so much time he probably doesn't even want to make 25 of these things I mean it would probably he probably couldn't like even even if he wanted to I'm sure he probably couldn't without turning it into a you know full full-blown company with and probably handing off some of that painting uh job to other people and therefore changing the product in that way um but you look very interesting sort of entry into the DIY topper Market I think this week um so uh another mod that was released uh couple of probably a month ago now um with ccad's uh new one for uh Jaws um now I couldn't play videos before so can is my video coming through guys H hit play yeah we got it yeah it is okay so maybe if I just don't go full screen so uh so Chris has done um uh funny little intro here funny little video where he's superimposed his uh boat uh which is a replacement for uh for Ben Gardner's uh little speed boat see his uh version of Ben Gardner's boat you know within into the Jaws footage of when they were looking for the boat which is you know very clever very funny um and and uh you know so great little video there let me see if I can pull out actual footage of the yeah so there's there's the boat a replacement for the um the premium Le boat that's in Jaws um that uh gets raised and lowered um you know when you when you hit this captive ball uh and I think he's done a really good job of it he's uh you know sort of had a bit of a chat with him about the processes that he used and stuff and the painting techniques he's sort of you know embedded sort of uh smashed acrylic and the windows here and um you know there's various sort of painting techniques that are used um and yeah I've I haven't picked up one of Chris's mods before so I decided any photos of it in the game uh that is a good question I don't think there is actually I don't think there is um I'll hit him up and I'll I'll make sure we have one for the show next week uh okay what else we got okay so um this week uh hooked on pinball announced uh let me see if I can pull up oh man they don't do I'm not going to be able to zoom in there's my keyboard these things are awesome there's yeah yeah so these are okay let me see okay that's a bit better so look the the image quality is not great so I'm sorry about that um but uh these are swin so swinx is a very uh famous name in the pinball modding World um he very famously did the uh snack bar mod for Creature from the Black Lagoon one of the first sort of really massive mods to really uh you know get bought in large numbers you know everybody's got a cre wants the snack bar mod from the swins um and he quite often gets contracted by um modding companies like large modding companies to do design work for them and he was uh he was responsible uh for the design work on these and these are SL plastic and inline plastic Replacements that are kind of I guess uh 3D sort of chunky um versions uh of of those uh those inlanes uh that's probably a better picture that you can see there you can see they've sort of got some real sort of lovely sort of gold edging um and some nice uh sort of knurled um plastic I guess it doesn't look 3D printed to me I don't quite know sort of how it was done um so yeah I'm on the list for these as well I think they look fantastic rob you are you on for them do you do you have um no I don't but I think that work is great I'd love to see this type of technique which I have no idea how he did it applied some other things I think it's really nice yeah yeah so um so I'm on the list for them so when they come in I'll make sure that we sort of do a little bit of a a deep dive into them and um I'll try hold them up on my do you know if they're translucent or are they just completely solid that's a that's a good question as well I think they're solid Carrie Hardy did a video on them and I kind of got they're completely solid but um they're they kind of they really capture that amplifier vibe that they've got going on in the game so if you're finding other things to to Really lean into that I think it's solid for sure I mean one other thing to raise with them too is they're a fantastic price like that it's 109 us for all four of them and that that's a that's a really solid price for for those for those four pieces yeah I think the going price for sling art is like $450 so it is man exactly this is the world we live in man so you know they're completely undercutting the the sling plastic Market yeah um and then what else we got oh yeah and finally um Chad arcade bar has um uh a little while ago um released this mod which is the arcade panel now I've got uh so he sent me one I'm just got to find it um so I'll do I'll just quickly switch cameras uh let's hide that and go back to my roaming camera again is that even working oh man that looks like a photo but yeah it's okay scrap that idea then okay uh my roaming cameras on the on the blink so anyway he uh oh let me just hold up to my normal camera let's just do it that way so uh he has um Sean stream so these are the these are the sort of the product shots and it's a it's an overdrive guitar pedal um now Chad works in the uh I think he I think he's got a sort of a side hustle business that builds guitar pedals and so um they might be the Recreations of classic guitar P I'm not too sure whether they sort of his own design or whether he does Recreations but he certainly sells guitar pedal um you know as a as a business um so you know a lot of the components used are you know accurate in terms of the fact that you know they're taken from a real uh guitar pedal um yeah you can see it here it's probably not going to be correct uh pH but you can see here with pedal it's sort of got these uh inputs which are usually the Jack inputs for a guitar um he's used those for sort of the wiring inputs on the pedal um you know knobs at the top um this bit will light up uh uh and we've got a cable here that's uh you know meant to uh represent the guitar um it's uh triggerable in game so I think we've got a uh what would be a matrix Comet Comet pinball Matrix lamp here that would trigger a lamp in game and you know I think it's a I think it's a really tasty mod um I think it looks really good and I can't wait to get it installed in food nice nice That's it it's an insert from the Playfield there he uses or not I think so yeah um yeah it's very clever yeah yeah yeah yeah so I'm not I'm not exactly sure what insert it is because I haven't sort of gone through all the sort of the installation steps and stuff yet um cuz I want to just sort of show it uh on the show before I install it in the game um but yeah really really nice and you know I had a bit of a chat with Chad first time as well and he's a lovely guy um so yeah one question I wanted to ask you guys just to sort of wrap up the show is um what are your plans for the future have you got your eyes set on a new game a new mod um are you in process of of building something new we're basically looking into three different mods uh one again for alien uh uh I think it will be a real hit uh at least in my in my vision we're really keen on the working on that one um also for Guardians of the Galaxy okay uh we both have a Guardians of the Galaxy machine limited edition and we have an idea for that one also um and then we're also looking in a mod for L and on mod okay so basically we have three yeah we've we've never looked into Guardians of the Galaxy mods have we robed so are there is there much out there do you guys do you guys know is there much out there no some really nice mods uh you have the the kind of plastic on the side with the lamps and kindy made a really nice engraved plastic of it we both have it so it's really nice um but overall yeah there are some some color Plastics and stuff like that but there are not not a lot of mods also some techy ones that you don't want so yeah some some 3D printed uh it's not a a real yeah yeah yeah yeah no there are not a lot of mods for for Guardians uh and and so yeah that's uh we're working we were going to do something for Ellis but uh I heard it is full so there's no use already that's what I had yeah yeah of we we'll see about that we'll see about we'll well guys thank you so much for taking time I know it's super late there so it's awesome to have you on um bringing your collections with us excited about you know everything you're building and everything you're playing um so Peter uh Carl uh thank you and keep building I mean it's super awesome stuff Davey any parting words for these guys uh stay cool guys and I'll see you Expo this year see Expo I'll work on you you work on you for that all right guys we're going to be back in two weeks uh we may have another guest otherwise we got a bunch more mods in the queue uh so we'll be sharing with those with you as well guys thanks again uh everyone have a great night and we'll see you all soon thanks guys bye okay bye [Music]