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The Pinball Show Ep 26: Inside Pinball

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 37m·analyzed·Aug 23, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern video adapter mishap exposes internal miscommunication and dealer vs. influencer tension.

Summary

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss Stern Pinball's video output adapter for Spike 2 systems, which experienced internal miscommunication when pre-production samples were shipped to Zach's dealer inventory without executive approval. Zach sold and shipped adapters at $39 before Stern asked him to halt sales; Jack Danger claims the adapters were supposed to be branded under Deadflip and sold at a much higher price. The hosts debate pricing, Stern's internal communication failures, and frustration with public criticism from Stern's spokesperson despite good business relationships.

Key Claims

  • Stern shipped pre-production video output adapter samples to Zach Minney's dealer inventory without management approval or final executive sign-off

    high confidence · Stern explicitly told Zach: 'The pre-production samples were shipped out to us prematurely. Management did not give the final approval.'

  • Jack Danger was supposed to sell the adapters under the Deadflip brand at a significantly higher price (hundreds of dollars more than the $39 price point)

    medium confidence · Jack was 'shocked to hear that these things were for sale already' and 'thought he was going to lose money' when he heard the $39 price, expecting them to sell for 'hundreds more'

  • Zach purchased 30 adapters initially, then 60 more after rapid sales, shipping them before Stern asked him to stop

    high confidence · Zach states: 'Once I saw that the first orders were selling so well, I bought 60 more' and had already shipped the first batch when Stern contacted him

  • The video output adapter works and includes full installation instructions, suggesting it is functionally complete despite Stern calling it 'pre-production'

    high confidence · Zach notes: 'It had full install instructions with it. Full colored install instructions that were very nice, too.' Dennis questions: 'if it's in pre-production why is the instruction manual done'

  • Stern's spokesperson has been publicly criticizing Zach and Flippin' Out Pinball despite good business relationships with Stern corporate

    high confidence · Zach states: 'I list the day of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I list that, and I've got Stern's spokesperson popping in there shitting on me... why do I keep having good conversation, communication, and sales with Stern Pinball, but their spokesperson continues to try to create conflict?'

  • The adapter is treated as a common part rather than a branded accessory, with no MAP pricing or branding guidelines provided

    high confidence · Zach explains: 'this output adapter is treated like a common part, not like a mod' and 'didn't come with pricing' unlike accessories which have pricing agreements

Notable Quotes

  • “The pre-production samples were shipped out to us prematurely. So that's what they're calling these... management did not give the final approval.”

    Stern Pinball (paraphrased by Zach) @ N/A — Official explanation for the adapter miscommunication; indicates internal process failure at Stern

  • “I'm becoming accustomed to that too... They did ask me if I would take down the video, make it private for now until this officially comes out. I said, okay, no problem.”

    Zach Minney @ N/A — Shows Zach's compliance and resignation to Stern's requests despite perceived unfairness

  • “Those were supposed to be hundreds more... He thought he was going to lose money.”

    Dennis (paraphrased, referencing Jack Danger's reaction) @ N/A — Reveals substantial pricing discrepancy between Zach's $39 price and Jack's expected margin, core of the conflict

  • “If I have to continue hearing this shit publicly about me and my company I'm not biting my tongue anymore I can't... if you're going to put lies out there I have to at least take a forum and stick up for myself”

    Zach Minney @ N/A — Expresses frustration with Stern's spokesperson public criticism and readiness to defend himself publicly

  • “It's not your fault... this is a Stern problem... the simple steps of that you were sold the product... you were given supply and then sold supply and then eventually were told to quit selling the supply they gave you that it is not your problem”

    Dennis Creasel @ N/A — Clear validation that Zach bears no fault; all responsibility rests with Stern's internal miscommunication

  • “They're not prototypes. They work. They have instructions... Jack, don't lie to people.”

    Zach Minney @ N/A — Direct rebuttal to Jack Danger's characterization of adapters as prototypes; factual pushback on narrative

  • “I don't see why doing this sort of stuff publicly is in any way healthy for the hobby or for the individuals involved”

    Dennis Creasel — Commentary on the broader negative impact of Stern spokesperson's public criticism on community health

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonJack DangerpersonStern PinballcompanyFlippin' Out PinballcompanyNicole (Nicole Minney)personBuffalo PinballorganizationDeadflipbrand/product_line

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern Pinball experienced internal miscommunication regarding video output adapter pre-production samples, with parts department shipping to dealer without management approval

    high · Stern explicitly stated pre-production samples were 'shipped out prematurely' and 'management did not give the final approval'

  • ?

    community_signal: Jack Danger publicly criticized Zach Minney's sale of video adapters, claiming they were prototypes and that he was supposed to sell them under Deadflip branding at higher prices

    high · Jack allegedly made statements about 'somebody's wrist needs to be slapped' and claimed to chat that adapters 'were supposed to be hundreds more'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern Pinball actively listening to streamer community feedback on video capture capability and developing official solution

    high · Hosts praise Stern: 'thank you, Stern. Some other manufacturers do already... Stern Pinball has listened to the community and said, hey, if you want a direct HDMI output, we will provide a product'

  • $

    market_signal: Video adapters sold 'very quickly' at $39 price point, suggesting strong streamer demand for direct Spike 2 video capture capability

    high · Zach: 'these things started selling super fast' and he immediately purchased 60 more units after initial success

  • ?

    community_signal: Tension between Stern Pinball's corporate sales/relationship management and its public-facing spokesperson, with speaker criticizing dealer despite good corporate relationships

    high · Zach states: 'I keep having good conversation, communication, and sales with Stern Pinball, but their spokesperson continues to try to create conflict' and gives example of TMNT listing comments

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.294

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for The Pinball Show. it's pinball with personality hey everyone welcome back to the pinball show thanks for coming back this is episode 26 and we are your hosts zach minnie and dennis creasel dennis we're recording a little early aren't we yeah well it'll be a surprise treat for those that like treats i like treats do you yeah of bacon variety. Ketchup. What have you been up to this week, man? Oh, mostly work. I haven't played any games. Phone games. I haven't turned on a pinball machine this week. Phone games? Yeah, phone games. Because I can sit there during a meeting and be like, I'm going to play a phone game because you can't tell because I've got it down below the Zoom webcam. You don't know what I'm doing. I see. Like you're doing important emails or something. No, I think guy you put on my board face because i like to at least through body language send the message that i don't care do you really i actually had someone once who said this was an in-person meeting and he said that it was really interesting how little i cared that i was sending a message that i don't care and i said really he said yes i've noticed because when the when the meetings in person start to drift you actually i slide down lower and lower in my chair he's like and so i knew i knew oh that's your tell the point where my head was barely floating above the conference table i just see your hair and he's like and i it's just like you you just it's so obvious that you just don't care and i'm like well i am sort of sorry about that because i don't mean to offend anyone but it's true i don't it is true i don't care oh we love your honesty here on the pinball I think people really have grown to appreciate that more than anything, even more than my singing. Well, they don't appreciate that at all, I'm afraid.
@ N/A
Spike 2
product
Spike 3product
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinballgame
The Pinball Showpodcast
Zach Sharpperson
Pennovatorproduct/service
P-Rockproduct
Don't Panic Flip (George)person/organization
This Week in Pinballmedia_outlet
  • $

    market_signal: Significant pricing discrepancy emerged regarding video adapter: Zach priced at $39, Jack Danger expected retail price of hundreds of dollars more, creating conflict over value and margins

    high · Jack reportedly 'thought he was going to lose money' at $39 price point and expected to sell for 'hundreds more'; hosts debate if $100+ pricing justified

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball video output adapter for Spike 2 systems officially in development but not yet launched; pre-production samples distributed prematurely

    high · Stern confirmed 'Spike 2 video output system' exists with HDMI output and full documentation, but remains in approval/launch stage

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern Pinball likely to include direct video output capability in future Spike 3 system, reducing need for external adapters

    medium · Speculation that Spike 3 'is going to have this already built in'; Zach notes 'I don't expect a Spike 3 system in the near future'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Third-party overseas video capture solutions have compatibility issues with standard capture cards due to non-standard video resolution (not 1080p)

    medium · George from Don't Panic Flip told Zach overseas parts required 'a certain ratio... not your standard 1920 by 1080' and had issues with Elgato capture cards

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern Pinball is developing an official HDMI video output adapter for Spike 2 systems, addressing long-standing community need for streamers to capture LCD output without hacks

    high · Stern produced full installation instructions and packaged product; has been 'working on something for probably over a year' per hosts

    • 2:30
    Maybe not, but one cannot argue my level of comedy. Now, here's the thing. I don't know if you had seen, we got a letter submitted to us, like an old-fashioned letter. You wouldn't have seen it because it went to the headquarters and you haven't shown up for a while. Then how did you say you wouldn't know if I had seen it or not? Well, it was in our mailbox, but you never come to the office anymore. That's true. So the letter was submitted by a very prestigious organization, the National Institute of Fine Comedic Arts.
    2:57
    The NIFCA. And I was wondering, I was like, what in the world is this? So I opened it up. It was sealed with like a wax stamp. Yeah, from a segment ring, yeah. I thought I was going to fucking Hogwarts. It was great. So I opened this thing up. It said really big in old English font. Congratulations. and then I guess the headmaster was typing to our show and said he's congratulating us on being a finalist for the 2020 Podcast Joke of the Year with our submission on Soft Reboot. Oh, great!
    3:35
    Yay! We made it! We're a finalist. Let's hope when the award ceremonies go on, we win Podcast Joke of the Year. That was gold, Dennis. I told you I was going to mine it, and that was a good one. We've got a lot of messages about that particular joke.
    3:53
    Sure we did. Looking back now, at least admit to the listeners, that was good. That was really, really good. It was very middle school of you. No, objectively it wasn't. Richard Pryor would be rolling in his grave laughing. Your standard, crass, lewd-style, low-hanging fruit joke. I'm amazed the letter you got wasn't in comic sense. Eddie Murphy would be like, eh, eh, eh. So I was glad to get a letter from the folks over there. Thank you so much for the consideration. You going to wear tux? No, I don't own one. I don't host Twippies. Oh, wait, you don't either. Oh! Oh, yeah, no!
    4:37
    That was a joke, but that was a pretty good one. Maybe I'll host this year. Oh, that's funny. I'm trying to think what I did this week.
    4:51
    Worked. I worked a lot. Not even in psychology. I worked in pinball. Busiest man in pinball. What happened to that moniker? I lost that. I think it's there. It's buried underneath layers of other. He gets paid now. The crude jokes. The drama.
    5:11
    The drama. We got some drama in this episode, listeners. Oh, do we? Tune in for that. I guess pinball's getting back to normal. Yeah, I've been working a lot. Poor flipping out Nicole. This thing, y'all, everybody works hard. Does she ever turn to you and say, what did you get me into?
    5:30
    This is total honesty. She regularly says that. She's like, what are we doing? I'm like, I know. This is like one of the hardest, not hardest jobs. I remember when it was the dream. I remember when you were so excited when you were working to buy Flippin' Out. And just how you had to keep it secret, and you were just so excited. And now, look, those dreams have turned to despair. It's been great, but it's a hard job. Speaking of the job, I have had, because of last episode, people reaching out to me and saying,
    6:03
    like, if you're for real wanting basketball cards, can we trade basketball cards for new pinball machines? Oh, gosh. What do you think my response is? Probably, absolutely. I was going to say that same word. Absolutely. Show me your certified Kobe Bryant and we can talk. That's a very good point. Yeah. If the value's there, if the value's there. Hell, I'll trade in an El Camino if the value's there. I sadly do not have any basketball cards, so I can't offer any to trade. Did you go look in? You went and looked, didn't you? No, no, I knew I never. I only did baseball cards. Well, start looking them up. They might be worth some money, man. I have a Mickey Mantle. Now, we don't have... What? Yeah. You have a Mickey Mantle, like a reprint? No, no, no, an original. My grandfather, years and years ago, gave me my dad's old baseball cards, and he had a Mantle in with him. Wow. Good shape? Yeah. But it's one of the later year ones, so it wasn't worth as much, I don't think. You know, like his last year playing for the Yankees, or second to last. You know, his retirement year. Yeah. Probably look that up if I were you. I'll need to re-find it. I don't remember what year it was. It's somewhere in storage. I'm just glad it didn't get lost in the heist of 2019. I'm hoping it didn't. I was looking the other day for my old watches, and I can't find it. And I was like, I wonder if it got stolen. I didn't report it stolen. It's too late to report it now. Mickey Mantle rookie card. I swear, baby, it was there. No, it wasn't a rookie. Oh, man. Even I knew Mickey Mantle cards were something back when I was a kid. Jeez, man. You might retire. I'd look that up. I don't think I'd do that. Oh, I would love to retire and be free. How much would it take you to retire? Somebody says, here's a lump sum. How much would it take you to quit your job and be like, you know what? I think I'm good. I might have some side gigs just to have fun, some hustle money. But what do you think it would take? $100,000? Interesting. Like right now? Right now. what are you 40 years old four million oh yeah you're frugal i forgot about that you're ready for like the cold war to hit again or something yeah no for four million i think i could pull four million yeah where would you live i don't know in a van down by the river maybe i mean my house is paid off so i don't i don't have to move and live somewhere different i can see you at a beach oh god i hate sand it's gritty and it gets everywhere with your nose zinked up and i you know i have a fear of sharks who doesn't surfers apparently they keep getting in the water i'm like no they're gonna think you're a seal get out of there it's like when somebody comes into my office and they're like my child is scared of like wolves well no shit they should be that's that's a normal side especially a pack of them no you don't don't trust those things you think you could take on a wolf one wolf one wolf do i have a weapon no bare knuckle uh that would be that would be difficult they're very large you know what i i think confidently i could whoop the ass out of a wolf you would die i don't think i would as long as you watch the gray oh i've seen and then you would die no as long as you as long as you protect your throat. I think you're good. How are you going to fight it when you're protecting your throat? Well, just make sure it doesn't lunge towards your throat. You do know they don't wear collars, right? They aren't making sound. I would fuck that thing up, dude. It would leap on your back. No, I'm like a spider monkey, dude. I would tear that thing's face off. Your spider monkey maneuvers would do no good. I'm scrappy, Dennis. Your scrappiness I'm not going to let a wolf take me out of this world. I'll rip that wolf's head off. It's going to puncture your hands you're going to be in so much pain you're probably running to a tree trying to reposition yourself nicole help and then when it's done it'll just pee on your body and walk oh that's unnecessary okay too lanky stringy stringy meat all right enough wolf talk you want i'd say let's go to the correspondence but quite frankly we're recording early and they're still sleeping okay it's time for tpn industry news well it's always tragic not to hear from the correspondent zach i like that segue that's very good so we did get a little bit of news from stern pinball this week did you hear about a new product that came out i did in fact i might be having one arrive you should be having one arrive anytime What is that product? Well, it's a video output adapter for the Spike 2 system. Uh-oh. And for some of our listeners, they don't know what the hell you just said. What is that? Well, if I remember my systems correctly, the Spike 2 LCD output system relies on a low voltage sort of way that they output to the main screen in the back box. So a lot of streamers have been interested in being able to directly capture that video. Oh, yeah. But there hasn't been an easy way to do it. So I guess Stern is releasing a product that makes it easy. I assume to output to HDMI, which is what most people want. Correct. We've heard about Stern working on something for probably over a year now, a couple of years. It is very difficult to get a handy camera, a camera to point at the LCD screen without it being at an angle and you get glare. It sucks. So you see a lot of people do that, or they will get the hard-lined or the direct video from the LCD screen onto their stream, but they do so by creating – I don't know what they do. It's almost like a hack. They get some parts from overseas.
    12:07
    I heard you have to go to like Alibaba or stuff like that. Get the parts. Yeah, I assume they like do a splitter-style approach. I've seen – Buffalo Pinball had a guy. Yes, yes. so uh i the first person i knew that was doing it was jack danger he was getting the direct video but he wasn't releasing any information on how to do it he claimed that stern was working on something and that you could really mess up your your cpu by trying to hack in this uh this feature and then yeah like you said buffalo came out with a video showing step by step how to do it they claim that it wasn't it sure if you go hammering on it you're going to tear it up but they said it's not too bad the problem was because it's cheap enough these parts but the problem was it takes so long to get especially during now especially during these times it took a month or two just to get these parts and then you've got to repin stuff it's scary stuff so stern came out with an adapter for this. But there was a little controversy there. Uh-oh. And it included you again. You're always at the center of every damn controversy. I don't work for Stern. I don't either. I don't work for the video output adapter company either. No, it involved me a bit. Oh, this is where I say, of course it did. Of course it did. I'm like a magnet. What did I do? I didn't do anything wrong. Well, you sold them.
    13:36
    Yeah. You're on your website. Because they're selling them to me. So what happened? And a lot of people, I came out with a video to show how to. I did not get a chance to see your video. I'm sorry. I'll have to send it to you. Well, I don't actually own a spike system right now, so I just thought I could watch the video later. Oh, that's fair enough. So I ordered some of these products. They came in. I did a video on them to show people how to install them, right, like a good dealer that I am. Like a good dealer. Zach Minney's there. Oh, I like that. State Farm. Jake. Kackies. So I got a video out there, put it on the website, and boy, oh boy, these things started selling super fast. The problem was that Stern wasn't ready to sell them. But they sold them to you. Yeah, it's super confusing.
    14:26
    The executives didn't know that they had them, and they didn't know that parts were sending them out to me. So then people are like, well, then how did you get them, Zach? No other dealer had them. We had a podcaster that we know and a streamer that we know that reached out to Stern and said, hey, how do I get a direct video feed for my stream? And they didn't know anybody. They said, yeah, well, we make this product and you have to talk to your dealer. But we make this product, you plug in HDMI out, everything. So he contacted me and told me that. And I was like, huh, I didn't know they came out with that. So I contacted parts department as a dealer and said, do you have any in stock? And they said, yeah. And I said, give me 30. They send them to me. And that's all it was. So when I received them, they didn't have any pricing. A lot of times, like when you're selling toppers, Dennis, or listener, when you're selling side blades, CERN will give us as dealers a price to sell them for. You can't go under that price because we have an agreement with map pricing and blah, blah, blah. I don't want to bore you too much. but this didn't come with pricing that didn't alert me because if i were to buy an extra ramp for a game or a cpu board a node board or something like that they're going to send that to me but they're not going to tell me what i can price it for it's almost just like a part oh okay so just to make sure i am understanding correctly so when it comes to dealing with stern for these add-ons. There are some that are like mods that are set price. Yeah. Handled by, I'm assuming, a different department?
    16:04
    Kind of. Yeah, kind of. There's an accessories department that all of his parts are. And then there's the stuff that's more like internal, what they just think of as regular parts. And they don't set what your sale price is on those parts. But you have a purchase price for those parts. That's right. And this output adapter is treated like a common part, not like a mod. That's what I was assuming. When it came, it just looks like a little board or something. I thought, okay, so they're just treating this like a part. They don't really care too much about it. It is what it is. It's out there. But they had full install instructions with it. Full colored install instructions that were very nice, too. So it's fully developed. It's done. Well, no. No, you said it's done. I thought so. So I priced it accordingly, what I thought was fair, while still being able to take the time to sell these things. They sold very quickly. And then the, what was it? The next day, Stern contacted me and said, Hey, heads up Zach Stern. I worked very well with Stern. They're, they're good people to deal with for distributors like myself. So I said, Hey, heads up. We didn't even know that those things were like, we didn't even know that those things were here and we were selling them so we need you to not ship any out that we sent you uh-oh uh but i think you may have already shipped them out yeah i already shipped them so i was like crap do i chase down the postal worker and that's frowned upon so i and they were like no it's fine it's not the end of the world but they said we're going to be developing this more these aren't ready and i'm like i'm not ready look ready to me i was a little confused but then somebody messaged me just a little yeah i'm really confused i was too i was like i don't know what the hell again i'm just i'm just i'm trying to keep up i'm a little we don't normally record on on this day so i'm a little behind uh in my brain power but so a customer contacted you wanted this adapter yes you reached out to the parts department They said they were ready. They sold you 30. Correct. You paid them. You got your supply in. You sent them out because you were contacting some of us with TPN saying you had some. You wanted to basically you buy them for us as gifts. Yeah, as a thank you. And you had others because you had it listed on the website. Because I think you had them listed for like $40 plus shipping, right? Yeah, $39 plus $10 shipping. 49 bucks through the door. Sorry, I rounded up to 40. I'm sorry.
    18:39
    And so, and then Stern comes back and says they're not actually ready yet. They are still working on the product. But the product had install instructions with it, so I'm confused what's left to do. So basically, I think what happened was there was some miscommunication there, which happens in big organizations. It is what it is. I had it on the website and I continued to take orders because I had a second order in. Once I saw that the first orders were selling so well, I bought 60 more. Boom. Give me 60 more. This is just like you with the toppers. That's what I do. Yeah. If it sells well, I'm going to do my job and sell these things. So I got a message from a couple of people that said, hey, I think you pissed off Jack Danger. I'm like, what? Oh, God. What did I piss him off about now? Like every time I do a video or something. So I go to his stream, and apparently Jack didn't know, because Jack has been kind of talking about this kit and stuff like that. Yeah, for like a year, right? Yeah. I mean, he's been getting direct video for a long time. That's right. So apparently he was supposed to be in on this deal selling these things, and it was going to be branded under the Deadflip brand.
    19:49
    So he was shocked to hear that these things were for sale already. He's like, what the hell is going on? But that's not your fault. No, but he acted as if it was. So he's angry and making noises when people are bringing me up. And his chat's like, oh, I wonder why it's just flipping out, blah, blah, blah. And then Jack's saying something about somebody's wrist needs to be slapped. I'm like, what the hell did I do wrong? Maybe he meant internal the stern. He's texting Zach Sharp during his stream. I'm like, oh. So he put his stream on a halt trying to figure out what is going on because he said they were supposed to be branded with dead flip stuff on them and stuff like that. He asked how much the price was to a chat person. Chat person said $39, and he thought he was going to lose money. He was like, oh, those were supposed to be hundreds more.
    20:40
    Wow. Hundreds more. I mean, you – I guess I messed that up. Well, no. All I'm saying is you, because of buying the parts from Stern, you have to have a markup in there for you to be able to make money. Yeah. And I don't want to say that you would go and gouge, but I don't think it would be an insignificant markup because otherwise why would they be worth your time to sell something that cheap? I thought it was fair. I thought it was a way to give back to the streamers out there, TPN or not TPN. just when i heard that when i heard the list the list price i thought oh okay yeah that seems completely reasonable for an adapter that's what i was going that's what i thought just thinking about other adapters you know mass-produced things like hdmi cords can run depending on length from like five bucks to 25 bucks something this is a whole adapter for you know it's a specialized most of the time you're not hooking into that low voltage video style because not many things use it So it's like, yeah, I mean, it's under 50 bucks.
    21:41
    But the components that go into it are cheap. We kind of have a sense from the Chinese parts that people have been doing where we would expect things to fall. Yeah, it's the manufacturing and labor that you're paying for. So I can't see, I mean, this is just me personally. I can't see why this would command $100. I mean, if the headphone kit's $100, I can see this thing selling for $100 or more. I can see it. I mean, I could as well if there weren't alternatives. Toppers are expensive. They're all right, right. But at least with with the top. And I think and I think toppers list too high personally. But that's a good point with the alternatives. Well, the BOM in them, the BOM in the topper is not very much. But there's still the artistic design and stuff that have to go into that. That doesn't apply to this in the same way. There are already options that exist for this. Yeah, they're one to one. They serve the same purpose, same quality. blah blah right it's a it's a functional device i'm even confused about the branding do you see i've never do you see the device like hanging out what the no it's behind the back glass so i don't i mean no i don't i don't understand so i don't know what they're doing with the branding and stuff like that but um well that didn't i mean it doesn't really matter they can i guess stick whatever logos they want on on things i don't really so it was it was just jack and i go back and forth so i'm getting numb to that i'm just reactionary just waiting for something to happen at all times. So that was what it was. So I talked to Stern and they said, well, the pre-production samples were shipped out to us prematurely. So that's what they're calling these. Yes. Pre-production samples management did not give the final approval. So they were getting them prepped and ready and stuff like that, but they weren't approved. Stern has not launched this product yet. And it's just not ready at this time. They talked about there being some steps, processes, even some approvals that are going to have to occur before launching this product. So that's your news update. So that's kind of where we're at with this. They did ask me if I would take down the video, make it private for now until this officially comes out. I said, okay, no problem.
    23:49
    I'm becoming accustomed to that too. And take it off my website. That's fine. But they said they weren't going to send me any of my second orders. So then I had to contact people and say, I'm sorry. Like we were asked to, that's fine. The problem I have is then I get messages the next day. It's like, Hey, uh, Jack's saying you're selling prototype stuff. And, and I'm like, what, what? It's like, I did something wrong here. I'm tired of in the public. Like I'm doing something wrong. I'm the one making a video for these damn things, trying to get them out there, trying to get people giving them away free to to the TPN streamers to Buffalo pinball What the hell Prototypes Dennis that when I have an issue That's a lie. They're freaking prototypes. They work. They have instructions.
    24:38
    Jack, don't lie to people. They're not prototypes. They still have your branding on them. Maybe they're doing something else, but the damn things were packaged.
    24:49
    A bit of a stretch. even pre-production I'm like okay yeah the language I guess the language from Stern is that they told you that they're pre-production samples wouldn't they really just be production samples like if all it's missing is branding it sounds like it's just a sample of we don't know that for sure but the thing works I know that well I don't I again I don't understand if it's in pre-production why is the instruction manual done and going out with them do you see what i'm saying yeah it's a good question and i'm not saying that it made that they wouldn't have instructions developed but they clearly have them ready to go if they gave you instructions with all of them and they were packaged yes and that's where i'm that's where i'm struggling like if i were i've you know i don't i'm not a distributor in anything but if i were a distributor and i received something and it was packaged and it had instructions i would think it was done i sympathize with you that if there's a narrative going around that you somehow made a mistake with this or jump the gun or yeah i don't see where i don't see where any of it is on you how would you have known about any branding arrangement that was going on um they didn't tell you any pricing set it at so you didn't commit a faux pas there yeah they offered to sell them to you when you contacted them and then they did and then they gave them to you so none of this falls on flipping out pinball is that having made an error this is a stern problem i i hear that but I'm even going to put it out there that I don't think there's a problem with the whole Stern thing. They had internal miscommunications. They made a mistake. They contacted me because I'm a partner with them. We worked on a solution. It's done. Where I'm struggling is why in the hell do I keep having good conversation, communication, and sales with Stern Pinball, but their spokesperson continues to try to create conflict? That's where I'm getting hung up. I'm like, who am I listening to? The spokesperson that's speaking publicly against me? Or do I listen to Stern Pinball, who I'm selling their products? I list the day of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I list that, and I've got Stern's spokesperson popping in there shitting on me. What is going on? I assume they don't consider that, since he's not an actual direct employee, that he's a spokesperson, would be my guess. Paid ambassador in face of Pinball for Stern Pinball. look that's where i'm struggling like that's what i'm going to put out there i'll say again i understand that he doesn't like you very much um i don't see why doing this sort of stuff publicly is in any way healthy for the hobby or for the individuals involved yeah i think it's unfortunate all i can say is based off of the the facts of the situation as have been outlined and even if they weren't outlined the simple steps of the that you were sold the product i mean what we all can see that you were given supply and then sold supply and then eventually were told to quit selling the supply they gave you that it is not your problem in a way it is not your problem it's not your fault i think it's silly to present it in any way other than that yeah i agree and some people are listening to this and saying god these two why can't they just quit and i i get that but here's the thing if i have to continue hearing this shit publicly about me and my company I'm not biting my tongue anymore I can't I don't blame you this is all reaction I'm not starting anything I'm just saying what the hell if you're going to put lies out there I have to at least take a forum and stick up for myself stop that's reasonable shit gets old man so yeah that's the whole video output adapter miscommunication I was eager to try to get it out there to people it wasn't ready yet I agreed okay sounds good and I won't sell anymore. And that was fine. Did they tell you when it will be ready? Unfortunately, they didn't. A lot of people have been asking me that. They don't have a timeline set. But based on what we're seeing in the product that was offered this pre-production sample, they can't be far off. Well, I'll be really interested to see if they end up coming out with a set price and how much higher it is up over 39 because we know that people can make money on them with 39. And I'm hoping it's not too much because I don't think there are going to be – everybody's going to want one. Like the bigger streamers are going to want them for every one of their spikes instead of pulling them every time. But I don't know how big of a seller this is going to be, which made me initially think it was just a part kind of thing. Like it wasn't a big deal. So we'll see. It's exciting, though, that Stern Pinball has listened to the community and said, hey, if you want a direct HDMI output, we will provide a product or a service to be able to do that. So thank you, Stern. Some other manufacturers do already. Like the P-Rock, you can pull pretty easy direct video and audio. And this adapter that Stern was selling, everybody was asking, does it have integrated audio as well? It does not. So audio has already been tackled. You can take a headphone kit or a Pennovator's kit or something and pull audio from that 3.5 port.
    29:55
    That's not a big deal. My understanding is the reason why they do the video the way they did was to cut down on interference. Okay. From the rest of the electronics in there, they didn't want interference to impact the display. That's why they do that low voltage option. Well, and Don't Panic Flip was telling me, George over there, was telling me that the stuff that was coming overseas, it was really weird. You could hook it up to other monitors, but it had to accept a certain ratio. It's a really odd, it's not your standard 1920 by 1080 kind of thing. Right, it's not like 1080p. Yeah. So he was like, I don't even know if your Cam Link Elgato is even going to work. He said he had to have a standard one because some of the overseas or Chinese parts don't work with those commonly used capture cards. But it did work. It worked on mine. We'll just have to wait and see. And then somebody was like, I wonder if they do a Spike 3 system, if they're going to have this already built in. And that's a good question. I would think so. I don't expect a Spike 3 system in the near future. And you wrote an article about the Spike system, correct? Yeah, like a year ago. It was over with This Week in Pinball. Compared to Spike and Spike 2, I mean, the reason for Spike 2 is just because of the LCD. Okay. I don't think they planned to jump that quickly, but once the, you know, JJP was out with their LCD, the Spike system, because, you know, like, Ghostbusters uses the Spike system. But it was just, they made some changes to be able to get that graphical output in place as part of their main setup and the RAM upgrade for all of that. But the spike systems otherwise were always designed for modular scalability. So, like, you don't need to go to spike three to do Wi-Fi. You should be able to just pop in a new node board. Lots of things are just to be added on by node boards. That's why they're all with those networking cables. Makes sense. It's designed to scale in that regard. So I felt they very clearly were sending the message that they didn't want to have to keep upgrading the board set every time there was new technology. They just wanted to be able to put in a node board that can do it. And they were saying on the instructions of this adapter that it does not work for the earliest of the Spike 2 games, for Batman 66 and Aerosmith.
    32:08
    Yeah, they said that's a green board. It only works on the newer revision of the Spike 2 system, which were white colored CPU boards. But if you do upgrade to that CPU in your Batman or Aerosmith, then you can run this adapter. There's all kinds of possibilities. I know Travis Meary reached out and he was like, I guarantee you can make this thing. You can hook it up wirelessly. So he's having an idea. Somebody said it'd be cool to have a topper, like a larger monitor on your topper that transmits that signal. I had a lot of really cool ideas that people were thinking of and pitching me. And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's kind of a universal product that can be used in a lot of ways. Well, you know, and I only assumed because of streaming being relatively limited demand and by and large is what everyone's been thinking of with the output adapters is for streamers. But I'm a little surprised a modder hasn't come out and come up with something like this. I mean, again, it's all off-the-shelf stuff. Yeah, we did see recently, speaking of Stern Pinball, somebody on Facebook was doing a video topper. They had it on a Star Wars. I believe it was down in Brazil. I saw the still image of this. Yeah, it was really well done and beautiful. They had it set up for a pinball machine. And I got to say, I really like the looks of that. So we'll have to see if that comes to fruition and they do production on that kind of stuff. But that was essentially the same thing. They were pulling, well, I don't know. It might have been their own coded looped video. I wondered if they were playing separate video to that. Yeah, I think that might be separate video. It looked good, though. what about Jersey Jack Pinball? What have they been up to? Aren't they doing some interesting factory finds? They are. Factory finds. I thought this was a nice creative piece of marketing and media that they were doing. Shout out over there to Ken Cromwell for marketing. I hope you're listening, Ken. Do you think Ken listens? No, I think he's left. They're dead to me.
    34:09
    They're trying to clean up some of the warehouse, probably some of the stuff that came from Jersey. and there are like blemished Hobbit play fields or Wonka play fields that instead of scrapping them, they're offering to the community because they know the community like wall hangings or art pieces or just memorabilia from some of these different products. And the price is pretty cool too. It was like $300 for a nice new play field. I thought that was neat. But they said on social media that they will be doing more and more of that. So you might see all kinds of cool stuff, whether it's pre-production units or maybe prototype-like stuff. You never know what you're going to find. See what I did there? So you've got to subscribe and follow their social media. Do you think they can get me one of the original art design Hobbit play fields? No, because I tried buying one from Eric Menier. Oh, you did? Yeah, with the dragon in the middle over the mountain. A lot of people hated that one, so I'm surprised you went for it. Yeah, I liked it with the blues and stuff. He has one that he was taking offers on. And I'm like, oh, that's a cool memorabilia piece. But I think it's probably out of my budget. Because there's only a few made. Chicago Gaming Company. I neglected to mention this last week, Dennis. But did you know that they are making a small ANC BNC rerun of Attack from Mars? I didn't. But I think it's a good idea. People were asking and asking and asking for this since they stopped making them a year or so ago. Yeah, so they're back on the line, and we've got some in stock. Since I've been in lockdown, I sure have been missing the ever-present Attack from Mars. Really? Well, you know, I almost bought that instead of Total Nuclear Annihilation. Would you think about getting rid of your TNA for an Attack from Mars? It's one of your favorite games. Yeah, I would, actually. You don't play it enough on location, I assume? Well, now I don't play anything on location, so that's why. Oh, that's why you're contemplating. It makes it so much easier to contemplate it. I get that. So yeah, Attack from Mars, and then people are asking when we're going to see a CGC game next. I'm still thinking. September. No, everything is September. Yes, that's why it's the perfect time. I think we're still, if I'm guessing, because I don't know anything, October, November. You think this year, though? Yeah, I do think this year. Okay. I think you're going to see one this year, and I also think that you're going to see a non-remake in the first to second quarter of next year.
    36:45
    Earlier than I thought. I mean, I thought 2021, but I wasn't assuming first half of the year. Yep. That's what I would be guessing. Deep Root, I don't know what to guess anymore. We know that they have a September launch scheduled, but they're making public. They're saying that now, Deep Root Pinball, September launch. I even saw that on Jeff Patterson's This Week in Pinball monthly update. It said September launch. So I guess they're coming.
    37:13
    They now have a Facebook page again, I think. Do you think we see more than Raza? No. I don't either. I think we see Raza with all the innovation in it, not a prototype. I think we see the finalized version, but I don't think we see another game. The bigger question is do you think games will be ready to ship?
    37:32
    I say no. I think they'll be ready to ship within two weeks of reveal. Wow. Now, my money's on, they're going to show it all off. They're going to get the media involved, and they're going to say coming soon. They're going to start taking pre-orders or whatever they need to take orders.
    37:51
    And I'll be lucky to see it in October. I guess as long as they've delayed, I don't see why reveal if not ready to ship. Well, he's within the two weeks, which Robert, I believe, was always originally shooting for. It's a valid point, but I don't know what they do. They did have some artwork on their new Facebook page, and I will give them a ton of credit. That artwork was phenomenal. It was like of a monster house. It was so, so good. I'm glad they finally have a Facebook page. Yeah, that's right. Now I also had seen in the This Week in Pinball recap Did you know that Deep Root now sponsors This Week in Pinball? I know now I thought that was interesting That This Week in Pinball is presented by Deep Root I can only assume that now that they're sponsored That This Week in Pinball will be the one that's revealing And showing off in regards to media Will be showing the world Deep Root products But hasn't that always sort of been the case? It seemed to me that Deep Root always went through This Week in Pinball for any written interviews, written reveal. Well, reveal is not the right word, but written anything. It was always through them. Yeah, I can say that they have had an ongoing agreement whenever I was doing the Twit podcast and stuff with Jeff. They always had a similar type of agreement. I just don't think that Jeff made that public. Well, I think it's good to make it public. I think so, too. Well, it's like a newspaper, right? So they get advertisers, but you need to know who those are so that anyone who's reading can assess whether or not there's bias.
    39:34
    Yeah, that's the thing. You can still cover them. You've got the largest pinball news source here. I mean, well, it's like when ABC News has to report on Disney. Like, Disney owns them. So they always have to specify, by the way, we are a Disney company because you want to go in going, okay, are they being biased by the corporate Mickey Mouse overlords or not? But they can still – I mean you can still cover everything. You just – you declare it so that people can make up their own mind whether or not there's an influence there.
    39:58
    Do they have to – do people generally discuss what the agreement is? It's like – are you talking like how much money a sponsor gets? Like if it's a monetary sponsor or if it's just a – If it's a publicly traded entity, then it's known because it's in the financials that go out for the shareholders. So in those cases, you can find out. But when you say, oh, by the way, a lot of times it's owned by or – yeah, you just see that the ad is listed and it's clearly marked as an ad. You don't know how much they necessarily paid for the ad. So you don't have to know the dollar amounts.
    40:35
    You just need to know the – you just need to know if there's a financial arrangement in sponsorship. So yeah, I think as long as you just declare that they're a sponsor. So it's assumed at this point. In the case of This Week in Pinball, then they said that it's a sponsor. Yeah, but a sponsor could be just information. This Week in Pinball is like, I get information from you, and in return, we will highlight your stuff. I don't know just information. If someone were just telling me information, I wouldn't credit them as a sponsor. I don't think that rises to the level of sponsorship. Sponsorship can either be monetary or in-kind contribution. So if someone was giving you a whole bunch of Translites, for example, you might say, okay, Stern Pinball is a sponsor. Even though they're not actually giving me dollars, they're giving me something that's worth dollars. What counts as sponsorship is something of monetary value. Information wants to be free, Zach. Not if you sell it. The Washington Post doesn't say, oh, my source on the Trump administration is a sponsor. You see, that's not how it works. Yeah, but with some of that news organization stuff, you know that there's money. You know that there's passing. It's like you know that MyPillow is a sponsor of Fox News, but you don't know how much they're paying them. Side note, somebody told me to buy that pillow because it's great. That pillow fucking sucks. It worked because I bought the stupid thing. That pillow blows chunks. That pillow is like a damn – the cheapest Walmart pillow you can buy. It's lumpy. It's just cotton thrown. It's horrible. Sorry, that little rant. My wife bought one thinking. I'm sorry I brought up pillows. I just thought it was a good example of – I think Fox has shareholders, so you can probably get the amount. But my point was you know they're a sponsor. You don't know all the details of the sponsorship, and that's fine. As long as it's known, it's fine. So I mean this week in pinball has an industry entity as a sponsor I don't think inherently is any issue as long as we know because it might – will it make some people distrust coverage? Possibly. but you just have to read the coverage and make up your own mind. That's partly why I didn't want to opt in for the getting money from this week in pinball thing because I knew, you know, I'm like, eh. Well, Tony and I with Eclectic Gamers, that's been our – I mean, we've made exceptions. Like, you know, clearly defining that Roanoke Pinball Museum is a sponsor for the year because of the pinball machine. You know, that was something that we had to discuss and work out. It's pretty light, though. Because when I make it really clear, my link to Roanoke Pinball Museum in my show notes, because I always include one, says that they're a sponsor in the link as well to make it clear. That's not just me sharing information. I'm sharing a sponsorship. And also, like, anytime I've been paid for articles and stuff, I've also announced those on air so that people know when I'm bought.
    43:26
    If I get free video game codes for review, I announce that. I always announce it so you know where I've been bought. I'm glad you're here to keep us on the up and up. Well, that's the way it's to be done. People have to be able to know who is funding you. And that's in kind. So like me getting Zen Studios giving me Creature from the Black Lagoon digital table, you're probably like, that's like a $3 table. My point is it doesn't matter. You have to declare it. You have to declare it so you know that maybe I'm not being fair in the review because I got it for free. You're good. But that's not a full sponsorship. That's just me disclosing anything that's along those lines. It could create potential bias. Yeah, potential bias. Because they basically, well, they bought me. They bought me something. And hopefully you listen to me and then you decide whether or not they own me. Zen didn't take you out to Longhorn Steakhouse? Zacharia Pinball might go to that length. They give me far more than Zen. Oh!
    44:24
    But you can listen to the relevant episodes. In bed with Zacharia, huh? Exactly what I've gotten because I always spell it out. You just subconsciously wanted to get closer to anything that includes Zach.
    44:35
    Oh, my God. See, Dennis, they say that there's no pinball news. This week there was. Sort of. That's some pinball news right there and a good little roundup here. But my favorite roundup... Is the one you spray on weeds.
    44:52
    No. Although I can see how you would make the similarity between that and... The pinball shows! Pinball Market Trends.
    45:05
    Meep, meep, meep. You didn't scream at this time. No. Pinball Market Trends. Trademark, copyright, registered. Is this the pre-production version of Market Trends? No, I'm terrified. You're like my attorney. I got you on retainer here. You're like, well, you need to specify that that was not, in fact, trademarked. And that's a hug. Training Up this week is one that you've heard before, but it's still on the rise. It's Kiss by Stern Pinball, 2015. Would you have ever guessed that, Dennis, that this continues to rise, this title? No. It does. There's somebody right now listing an LA for like $12,000.
    45:44
    $12K by Christmas. Doesn't mean it's going to go for that, but if you look at the secondary completed pricing, it does continue to trend up. hell i remember you could get premiums a year ago you can get premiums in like the upper fives nope you're like lowered sevens now i can't say i blame them i really kind of enjoy this game in a larger collection so training up is kiss if you've got one you got a little bit of gold there and if we're looking at the pin side top 100 uh some some micro trends can i do a micro trends dennis you do whatever you want financially the numbers don't support these training but there's some movement in the pinball top 100 on pin side and that is a virus household wars up to six a little micro trend there you're also getting a little micro trend from rick and morty that thing was down in the 30s it's up at 18 now rightfully so that's a really good code hey dennis where's my f***ing Rick and Morty I thought you had it I've got most of it I don't have a CPU I sent it off over a week ago I didn't want my game maybe you could buy someone else's used Rick and Morty and then put their CPU in your game for the time being maybe I can buy Kaneda's his is only $13,000 it didn't sell yet? his CPU works butter cabinet? No, I guess not. I don't know. Speaking of, trading down this week is putting your podcast up for ransom unless you get $500 a month to continue.
    47:26
    $500 a month in pinball. Wow, that is shooting for the stars. You haven't seen this Dennis, but Kaneda's pinball podcast he is like a little toddler in a sandbox at this point. He closes his podcast out at $4.99. My company's mad at me. They won't let me podcast anymore. My mom and dad say I gotta go home before it gets dark. And then, which I'm not hating. I get it. I would too. But then he teases us. He continues to throw shit out online that compromises everything he said. The problem here is that now he puts up a Facebook and says, I'm taking a Patreon. You son of a bitches aren't giving me enough money and you're giving me a measly $60, $80 a month. I need $500 minimum or I will not restart my podcast.
    48:19
    That doesn't agree with the aforementioned reason he stopped. And I think it's against Patreon things. You have to be giving people something. He's not giving anybody anything right now. I'm not familiar. I've never done a Patreon. I don't know if that's... He's got six tiers here. $5, $10, $50, $100, $500, $9,000 per month.
    48:40
    And again, I'm not starting this shit, but I'm going to retaliate if I see it. The $5 per month says it's pretty good, actually. It's pretty funny. Just a month not to hear the host sing It worth it That probably true Yeah So you know what Good joke there a month He officially give his heart to you That's generally what we're going to get from Kaneda. A punchline that doesn't land. $50 a month. That's right. You get a phone number that's not Ed Robertson's. He initially said he was going to give away Ed Robertson's phone number, personal. And I think he probably got a call about that one. Hmm. Yeah, and then you get personal shout. I don't. So, if you want to hear Kaneda's pinball podcast, three-time Twippy winner.
    49:27
    I sleep with these pieces of pointy plastics. Brenda don't like it much, but I said, no, if you want to hear him again, you're going to have to start ponying up that dough, bro.
    49:36
    You know what it reminds me of, Dennis? No, I do not. This kind of antics, because I'm like, $500 a month for him to compromise his job? That still doesn't make sense at all. Whatever. It reminds me of the film, Liam Neeson film. The one that... Rob Roy.
    49:58
    Michael Collins. Crawl. Not Crawl. What is it? What's the film? What? I'm naming Liam Neeson movies. No, the one where his daughter's taken.
    50:11
    Taken. Shit, there it is. Taken. It reminds me of the Taken series here. what's the movie about the girl being taken I can't remember but it's so memorable I don't know who's listening I don't know why you're listening if you're looking for cheap entertainment I can tell you I'm worth more than $48 a month but what I do have are very particular set of skills marketing skills that I've acquired over a very long career consistently false information that make me a nightmare for pinball manufacturers. If you pay me $500 a month, I will start podcasting again. I'll record five times a week, unedited, most of which could be summed up in one episode instead of belaboring the same false rumor all week across five episodes. But if you don't pay me, I will continue to hide and troll others until I get my feelings hurt, and then I shut down my Facebook page again. you will pay me or I will go bother the Neo Geo community.
    51:20
    That's pretty good. Taken, right? That's what it reminds me of. Yes, yes. Your impression was... Spot on?
    51:29
    Not your best. Not my best. And, uh, Dennis? Oh, it's Dr. Phil, Ken's favorite. I'm glad Ken's not listening. Why are you being so negative to my boy?
    51:47
    He's got feelings too, didn't he? Couldn't even quote Rob Roy. Screw you, Dennis Kiesel! Disclosure of sponsorship bullshit! Enough of that crap. Let's go to a deal of the week. Bye, bye, bye. Deal of the week this week cannot be found on Pennside. It's on Facebook. We don't have many Facebook deals of the week. This is by Matt Curry on Pinball for Sale group on Facebook. He's got an Independence Day, Dennis.
    52:25
    Ever intrigued by? Yeah. You don't see it too often. Sega's Independence Day back in the 90s. And overall, looks really clean. The only thing it needs is a new set of ramps. I don't know how easy that's going to be to find, but a new set of ramps for a fairly rare to find game. Cab looks good. Playfield looks really good. Needs some new ramps. $2,300. Buy, buy, buy! That intrigues me. I thought about buying it for $2,300. You can't find anything for $2,300 anymore, much less a DMD of a Sega era that's kind of hard to find. I don't think there's much to that game, though. That's the only problem. I can't remember if I've played it. It's very Twister-esque. man twister i wanted to like that game just sucks sell sell sell yeah it's a bit disappointing those sega games i just want to like them but they just don't have enough whimsy so in that a little foreshadowing there for the listener so bye bye bye bye bye on some id4 and you guys told me you want more of it so i'm gonna bring it it's the deals of the what the fuck so deal of the WTF this week is a fellow by the name of Tony from the pinball machines group on Facebook is selling you ready for this Dennis I'm trying and look it's cheap too here's the thing it is only $100 what can you buy in pinball for $100 Dennis I'm not even sure that I can buy to buy a video output adapter anymore for $100.
    54:00
    Damn it. That was good. That was really, really good. Nicely done. Now, a guy named Tony is selling for $100,
    54:09
    all caps, this is a pinball machine part. It was used to transport a Wizard of Oz pinball machine from the factory to me. It is for sale. And it's located in Delaware. $100 for a pinball machine box the cardboard box this is why I hate this hobby $100 for the box because you're too lazy to filch your kids a fork oh man i'm a millionaire at this point with these boxes i got it's one of the rare jersey jack ones no you don't say that but wow they're built better than the stern ones quality of cardboard is top notch oh a box a hundred dollars for a pinball box oh it says at the very end last one i'm going to use as his tagline can be of good use if you need a box tony tony tony tony if this thing sells for more than five dollars contact me you and i will go into business and i'll give you all the fucking boxes that you can take buddy oh can transport a pinball machine. No shit.
    55:48
    Dude, anybody buys this box? $100. That's more than used cabinets. That's awesome. I'm just trying to think of a person's like, oh, I've really wanted to sell this game and no one local wants it, so I'm going to have to ship it. I just sure wish I had, I'll just add $100 to my loss on profit. Oh my God, that's so good. I wonder if it's got, I wonder if he cut the box or if he unsheathed it. Because it's got to be worth more if it doesn't have any cuts in the box. Unsheathed it. That is a sword.
    56:30
    You try getting the Jersey Jack box out without cutting that box. They're heavy. Good on you. Good on you, buddy. Is that going to be the new thing? No. No? I'm afraid not. this is a once a year thing training up this week they're both boxes collect them all buy buy buy if it sells for a hundred maybe I should feel bad I stuck mine in the recycling bin oh my goodness after I let the kids play with it as a boat they do make good boards yeah I posted a thing and I saved the box on purpose and I stuck it in front of the TV in the living room and the kids stayed in the box They're like little puppies Well that's because they can't get out you ass No they were like These kids like ranged from like ages Six to nine They were fully capable of escaping Even a jersey jackpot They still have to fall to get out Oh I didn't have it upright Oh I thought you had it upright with them in there No You know I did that with my niece when she was like one I put her in the trash I'm sure her mother appreciated that Dennis, would you ever have a pet? You need to have a pet. I used to have a pet. You probably had a cat. No, I don't like cats. You're not a cat person. We've talked about that. Okay. No. You need a pet. Well, actually, after that conversation, you don't. You don't need. Hey, my pets lasted a long time. Hermit crab. They lasted? What? God.
    57:57
    They're not a fern. They lasted a long time. Well, I didn't give them away. They died. Note to self. They lasted. Don't send Dennis a puppy like you were originally planning for Christmas. I almost sent my friend a duck once.
    58:11
    I think it's very dangerous to gift people animals. Yeah, I was going to do it just as a joke, but then I was like, that's kind of mean because he doesn't want a duck, but it would be really funny to give him a duck. I wanted it to, like, follow him around like a duckling.
    58:26
    He wanted it to imprint on him. So that when it's abandoned, it doesn't know what to do. That's a goose. Yeah, that's a goose.
    58:36
    Ever been attacked by a goose? Those bastards are mean. I've had a couple lunge at me before. Why do people run from geese? Or animals in general? Have you ever seen that? People run from goats. They run from stuff. I always wonder why. Every time you run, that entices them more, though. Yeah, but it's the fight or flight kicks in. And a lot of people are like, I can't just punch a goat. Why? I would punch the fuck out of a goat. well i i mean i think it's okay with a goat i would i would punch a goose you're like a goose it's like you're probably thinking is it protected am i am i allowed to kill it protected what is this curb your enthusiasm black swan episode you kill black swan no i didn't kill black swan no one has seen whatever you're talking about uh then i don't want to be associated with those people because that is one of the greatest curve well then we can stop this podcast now because i've ever seen a single episode yeah but i'm accustomed to that you haven't seen nothing you probably haven't even seen the office have you ever seen the name unlike you the series the office have you ever seen it no fuck wait the uk version or the u.s version not the uk version the good version no listener don't even try it no don't even try it the uk shit no that's pretty harsh because Ricky Gervais is a lot funnier than Steve Carell.
    59:55
    Okay. I can concede to that. But on this particular show, no. I'll also concede I didn't see the UK version either.
    60:03
    One of the greatest love stories on any sitcom. Prove Me Wrong. Yes. Prove Me Wrong. I don't want to watch it, so I'm not going to prove you anything. You're missing. You're missing out. God, you're like my wife, man. She won't watch The Office. She won't watch anything good. You know what she watches? I think there's something wrong with the woman. She will watch English-dubbed, overseas, corny television shows and movies. I don't get it. I'm like, you realize there's a lot of really good stuff out there. A lot of people are fans of foreign films. How does she find it on Netflix? I'm like, what? That's what Netflix is for. You've got her categories on the nest up.
    60:44
    I'm like, this is the worst acting. It's dramatic. It's like telenovela stuff. It is. Yeah. What is this? She's like, I don't know. I just get hooked on it. I like it. Oh, God. Yeah. What, you want her to watch Tiger King instead? Yeah, absolutely.
    61:01
    And that, ladies and gentlemen, has been your Pinball Market Tricks. Deals of the week. Deals of the what the book.
    61:10
    Sponsored by Deep Root Pinball. oh before we close out the show dennis i want to gift you a new pinball podcast segment what a shock would you accept it did dr john write in and explain why the year was wrong on space station i i don't know maybe i'm not sure no this segment i don't know what we're going to call it This is a working system. What I mean by that, Dennis, is that my mind is always going.
    61:47
    I stay up long hours thinking about different pinball advancements and how we can further the industry, the hobby, the love that everyone has for pinball. I'm trying to grow pinball here.
    62:02
    We classify pinball machines in a lot of ways. right we describe their code we describe their layout and geometry we discuss even though you hate it we discuss theme and how that matters now in the 21st century when did i say i hate that you just said the theme that it's not really a big thing to you art's not really well that i mean i hate it it's just like when i'm considering what i'm buying for me i that's not like at the top of the list fair enough uh we discuss music we discuss artwork call outs you name it and when we play a pinball machine when people say things like ah that shot is satisfying no one likes that word i do i love it actually i'll use it all the time satisfying shots to me are true they feel i think keith elwynn said it and elaborated upon it by calling it kinetic satisfaction. It's a feeling that you get, right? Whether it's tactile, you feel it, you hear it, hopefully you don't taste it. You see what I'm getting at, Dennis? Yes. It elicits an emotion, a mood from us. Yes, people experience sensations of satisfaction when they play pinball. This is nothing new. No, but what is new is classifying the type of tone that a machine elicits. Moreover, Whenever we play a game, I think we're forgetting that there may be patterns in what machines we come accustomed to enjoying, not based on code all the time, not based on shots and layout. Maybe there is an emotional tie here. We do know that when it comes to memory, emotion is one of the strong predictors of memory. So maybe it's not the light show. maybe it's the tone that elicits that we interpret and feel as a mood is this a little a little too out there for you i get what you're saying i think the things that we normally use to classify pinball machines are sufficient to capture whatever this like this is so this is so sub-level that it's not like people are going out there trying to find uh like if you're going oh i want I like pinball machines that are whimsical, have whimsical tone. That's represented in the art and the theme and everything else. So you don't really, like, you could do this, but it's not very useful. Oh. That's my thought. That sounds like a scientist that's unwilling to do it. An experiment because you're afraid that your hypothesis might be incorrect.
    64:47
    That's what I'm hearing. Well, we know how this will go. You'll somehow make this round peg fit in the square hole no matter what. That works all the time. Do what you want. It's your show. It's your network. I can stick a square hole in a round peg in a round peg in a square hole. It's all about size. See, it's about the speed of light thing. You're not thinking conceptually here. Expand your mind, bruh. The lack of biology and all that. So what I've come up with are some classification system, if you will, some tones that are elicited by machines. And I thought over time we can talk about what tones are represented or felt from these different pinball machines. And it may point us into a better understanding of why we gravitate to some machines more than others.
    65:39
    Some of the tones that I have down in front of you, Dennis, are whimsy. A lot of games, can you think of a game that provides the tone of whimsy? I think of Circus Voltaire. A lot of John Papaduke games include that whimsy nature. Okay, I mean, sure. Fairy tale stuff. Yeah, whimsy. Wonder.
    66:01
    A tone of wonder. Expansive. Open. What's out there? There are pinball machines that do that as well. I'm trying to think of a game of wonder. Maybe a theater of magic. Isn't that just whimsy?
    66:16
    Theater Magic Camp, and that's a good point, this classification system, you can pick multiple things that fit criteria for a certain pin. I've already worked this out in my head. Some pins only will hit on one or two. Some pins will hit on five or six. I, myself, pattern-wise, have found that the more they hit on, the more I enjoy and feel enveloped, more engaged in that particular game. Oh, interesting. So you actually prefer games that are completely inconsistent in their tone. Not always. I'm still plotting this out. I'm still noting. And, listener, I want you to start noting this for yourself, too. Get you a list of games you really love, and with these criteria points, maybe we'll put it on the Facebook page, identify each one of them. And then see if there's a pattern there. Another tone classification is nostalgia. If something can hit on a nostalgia. Sure. That one, I think there are a lot of examples for people with that. Time Machine might hit on that nostalgia using the chimes. Nostalgic. A lot of EM games, maybe nostalgic.
    67:21
    So you get that nostalgia feature. I'm trying to think, even kind of Deadpool has a little flavor of nostalgia there, the way they present the sounds and the visuals on the LCD screen. A little nostalgia. The next one, Lighthearted. Right? Dialed-ins. Lighthearted. Yeah, you're dialed in, yeah. I would even classify... Raza, lighthearted. I haven't really played it. I've seen the opening cinematics, lighthearted. I've seen it, damn it, it's lighthearted. Whirlwind, it's lighthearted. Tornadoes are scary to me. Heist, pretty lighthearted. Some of these are tricky, too. Humorous. There are a lot of pinball machines that's different than lighthearted. Lighthearted is carefree, la-di-da on the pasture. Humorous is something that evokes funny. Rick and Morty. Deadpool is trying to do that. Medieval Madness. Humorous. Attack from Mars as well. Perfect. Ominous.
    68:19
    Freddy Nightmare on Elm Street tries to do that. Stranger Things tries to do that. Absolutely. I find myself, this is one category, Dennis, that I find a pattern starting to emerge. I like an ominous type of game experience. Ominous.
    68:36
    Cerebral. this one's a little trickier not a lot of machines fit criteria for this you're not going to get a lot of cerebral grant games i would argue that some of the spooky games really do cerebral rick and morty does cerebral it's just deeper it's deeper you have to there's an understanding that you have to have or a level that you have to be at to really get what they were going for and if you don't get that you're not going to appreciate it to the degree that you will if you're able to get down deep into that do you see what i'm saying like the jokes uh some of the the wit some of the um i i guess so but that all is just the theme but it evokes that it's still presenting that but the pinball machine didn't do any work for that that's just no the theme is seeing rick and morty up there hearing rick and morty the substance the quality of the production of that is where you get this tone. They could have botched that theme, but it's cerebral. TNA, the cerebral. If I had a non-pinball person walk up to TNA, they're going to say, okay, cool, looks like an 80s game. It's cerebral because of what it evokes whenever you're playing it. It's a little deeper, deeper level stuff there. Some of the code sets can be a bit cerebral. You've got to appreciate the nuances there. Gritty. That's another categorization. Gritty versus polished. Another classification. Gritty versus polished. And a game can be both, Dennis. A game can be gritty and polished. They can wash themselves out. Can you think of a gritty game? Yeah, quite frankly, I don't understand this exercise. Okay. Gritty, I'm thinking... Pick a game in your collection. Just any. Name one. Walking Dead. Walking Dead is a gritty game. It is evoking grit. There's no polish to that game. Nothing slick. There's sharp edges. There's blood. There's guts. That's a gritty feel to it. The play field has blood splatter. Gritty. Polished, on the other hand, that is surface Voltaire. Clean, colorful lines. Right? Shape.
    70:53
    Polished. Tron. Polished. Tron's not gritty. Tron's polished. I see it, but I just, I think it's... You gotta feel it. You feel it. You don't see it, you feel it. Couple more. Epic.
    71:08
    You can name an epic game. Sure, I can. I won't. I don't see the point. Go ahead. Lord of the Rings. There you go. Lord of the Rings. This is all represented in other classifications already. This is pointless. Let's see. Well, then you argue it. Where does it fall into? Almost everything you have named is either captured in code depth or in theme and theme integration. It's already – it's not that this stuff doesn't exist. I don't disagree. Nostalgia, whimsy, those aren't theme integrations. Yeah, turtles, there we go. It's nostalgic. Ghostbusters, it's nostalgic. Is it referencing some old ass shit? Then it's nostalgic. Deadpool, when they do nostalgia in Deadpool, that's not theme integration. You're saying the nostalgia happens to come from the video assets being 16-bit. That was your argument. Ominous? That's theme integration? That's theme itself. That's playing. Stranger Things is an ominous show. Walking Dead is an ominous show. I can have a game that is integrated well, but it doesn't give you that feeling, that tone. It's not presenting. This is a feeling kind of thing. I understand that you're going with feelings. You love feelings, Dennis. But your point was the segment about having a new pinball classification system. I'm saying these feelings are already embedded in the existing classification systems. I'm arguing that this may be better. This may be a better measurement. It's not going to – no. See, that's where – that's exactly what I knew it was. It may be. You think you have come up with a better system than has been already defined by all the countless people who came before you. No, no. It's an exercise in futility. I'm a pioneer, baby. I'm not saying that's what it is, but I'm saying let's see where this takes us.
    72:54
    Let's get through the rest of the list so we can finally get somewhere. Tense. Tension. A lot of games evoke some tension in you. You just can't pinpoint why you like this game so much because you don't care about the theme. The code is whatever, but I feel like the world's about to end.
    73:13
    A lot of tension. Do you have any tense games? any game that brutal Flash Gordon Iron Man those are tense games TNA Super tense TNA tense sure Man that music
    73:28
    Oh, man. Dynamic. This one, a lot of games fall into this. I was trying to find a word that captures action. Think of your Avengers.
    73:40
    Right? Iron Man. Dynamic. Any standard body game is dynamic. No. I would argue no. Elvira is not dynamic. It is not punching you in the face saying, there's always action going on. We've got to be doing something. Oh, so flow games are all dynamic.
    74:05
    Not necessarily. No, because if they stop, you're going to have a flowy. I mean, how flowy is it? Well, that's a whole other argument. We can have flow versus smoothness. that's different. Oh God. Different interpretations. And that's a great one to have dynamic. Yeah. Think about ACDC dynamic. Always something going on. Boom, boom. You're rocking out. Doesn't tell a story. It's just dynamic. And then last classification adventurous.
    74:38
    We feel like we're, we're making a quest towards something. Modes feel more like we're completing. You see this different than Epic.
    74:47
    I, I sat with that a while, and yes, I do. Something can be very epic, grand, expansive, but you're not really taking adventures. It's not a linear thing where you're going on adventures per se. I thought about that one. See? Now you're getting into it, baby. I love this. Okay. So those are some different tone classifications there. Name me a pen, Dennis, that you have in your collection besides Walking Dead.
    75:16
    Superorbit. super i feared that i've already played for that so super orbit whimsy no wonder no nostalgia yes super orbit nostalgia light-hearted no humorous no ominous no cerebral no gritty no polished no not really epic no tense you tell me i haven't played a lot of super orbit it's it's pretty brutal does it evoke some music and stuff lights it's really wanting you to do it do it do it do it hurry hurry the music uh yeah it does it does go for that it's more sound than music but it's kind of like that you know it's just a drone yeah we get you meteor kind of thing so yeah you got nostalgia you got tense or tension dynamic no adventurous no so you're hitting on just two there probably wouldn't be a game that uh that maybe i would like as much as as one of my favorites name another game what's your favorite game one of your favorite games ever star trek star trek stern yes okay well i don't know i prefer the other one doesn't work mine works damn great and it's a good example here but we'll go star trek stern one that i'm always mixed on i'm like yeah take or leave it is what it is whimsy no wonder what's the tone it's going for not really wonder a little bit little wonder nostalgia hits on a little bit of star trek but it's based on the movies not really light-hearted no it's not light-hearted humorous no ominous no cerebral no gritty versus polished it's more polished smooth lines right space themes epic i would argue no tense not really dynamic yes adventurous sure see so you've got uh yours oftentimes hit on nostalgia a little bit there and which very much kind of describes your preference you like nostalgia i like whimsy see it's working what's game you hate hobbit yeah wwe i don't like that game either let's go with the hobbit that's one that i think is a pinball masterpiece i played it last night I got a GC and I just smiled thinking of all of you that say you don't like this. I think it's impossible because it is one of the greatest. It is one of the greatest creations of a game, much less a pinball machine of all time. It's that damn good. But you're not a fan. Whimsy. No, Hobbit doesn't elicit whimsy. Wonder. Man, not much. Nostalgia. No, lighthearted. No, it's not lighthearted. Humorous. No, ominous very much cerebral i could have a little flair that gritty versus polished that's a mix there it is a gritty story i feel the adventure is gritty but it is very polished we get a lot of metals that they use uh golds and stuff like that epic absolutely tense you betcha dynamic and a little bit adventurous very much so i'm telling you there's something here um no not really sorry i mean you clearly worked really hard on this so no just the listeners will help will help make it make this what it will be but right into the pinball network at gmail.com and explain that this new classification system isn't actually really very helpful no they're going to explain that damn you know what systems all of us have been way too flat on this. We're not taking into account the emotion that pinball machine brings. Emotion is taken into account all the time. Nobody talks about it. Nobody talks about emotion. They talk about their emotion all the time. They don't talk about emotion when they're playing or judging a game. They're always like, oh well, if someone comes out with Back to the Future, it's day one side on seat. That's just an emotional decision. There's no logic to that. Everybody's like a scientist. They're like, the shot geometry is good. Check. My dislike of Hobbit comes to the layout. It doesn't have to do with how adventurous it is. If I sent you a Hobbit, would you play it for two months? Yes. Okay. All right.
    79:53
    I can guarantee you, Dennis, that you would say I, Dennis Creasel, am wrong about the Hobbit. You do understand I have played a lot of games on the Hobbit. We routed one. Exactly. I had to play it all the time. Exactly. You can't play the Hobbit on location?
    80:11
    Oh, Jersey Jack can't make games for location. Interesting statement from a distributor. Look, you can make money on location with The Hobbit. You can have fun on location. You cannot experience The Hobbit on location unless the circumstances were so adjusted. That is such an L.E. buying arrogance statement. No, it's a true statement. You can't experience it. Right now, you are reminding me of those people that say, you can't review a video game unless you've done all the missions and played every side quest and done New Game Plus. That's a bit far. And it's like, what the hell is this? You can't understand a pinball machine unless you have it in the home environment. I've heard others make this argument. No. That is on the pinball machine. That is not on me. That's like going to see a movie with all the lights on and you turn to the back and not watching the screen. These things are built to be experienced in locations with other sounds and the lights on. That's the whole history of pinball. You can't just all of a sudden redefine it and say you have to play it with the lights off and have it in your – if it takes that much to like a game, the game wasn't developed for you. No, it takes that much to fully experience to the echelon, to the level of what you can experience in pinball. The other games can't get there regardless. They'll never get there. I'm not saying that the conditions you're outlining aren't the best conditions to experience the game in, but that you think one moves from not enjoying a game, which I have pointed out is due to layout reasons, and somehow that is all going to be undone, overwhelmed by the sheer spectacle of these illusions that you're pulling. For some games, yes. The Hobbit is definitely one of them. For you, yes. I would say for the majority. People just don't allow this emotion. That's the problem. They're not allowing this motion. They're not allowing this tone to be discussed. We can't share it. What is this? People discuss emotion and tone all the time. And there are plenty of people out there who love The Hobbit for those reasons. Nobody discusses it. They do all the time. Do you not read some pinball forums? I can't go around handling you through the discussion. The amount of emotion-based purchasing in pinball is disgustingly high. Why do you think Rick and Morty is so popular? Because the show is popular. No. Avengers is a popular movie, but is it a popular pin? But the game was a bad game. Okay, but what about Rick and Morty? Is the layout great? I haven't played Rick and Morty yet, so it would be hard for me to say if it's a good or bad game. I know plenty of people think that the layout is not very good, but the theme integration is enough for some people who essentially just got in on the game because they love the theme. It's like got a cult following. I think we're almost there, but we're just like with Rick and Morty. People are describing something, but they're just calling it theme integration. We deserve more. We deserve more explanation. I think theme integration is capturing it enough. And when you delve into the details of theme integration, you can explain the tone elements. Does it tickle your balls, Dennis? Does it make you feel? That's where it's at.
    83:22
    This is a perversion of what pinball once was. No, this is how you actually experience what pinball is.
    83:30
    Without this, you're not getting what pinball is. You have deviated from the purity of the game itself. No, God, no. Instead, you hide behind the spectacle. When people play Dungeons & Dragons, they don't play to see who's winning. They play it to feel. That's why it's so popular. They at least admit it.
    83:47
    You feel it. pinball used to be able to elicit feelings of joy without having to hide behind a glean of nostalgia and whimsy pinball in the 21st century is more than angles and reels it's more than points it's experience why do you think it's so popular now and it wasn't whenever it failed when it tried to go up against video games there's a reason for that they had to up the ante they had to up the game and one of the big things was emotion game code game integration those have not sufficiently in my mind changed all that much from the 90s oh bullshit nope it's all the same ingredients all the same tricks not even close you've got lcd animations we got lcd screen oh we got lighting now that is starting with seeing a resurgence in pinball before they switch to the lcd screen you cannot hide behind that as the reason why pinball is now popular was lcd screens but it didn't hurt in some ways it did because it is compromised on the theme integration if not done properly yes because of the licensing complications yeah so now we have jurassic parks where we can't hear the characters anymore because they can't afford to get the likenesses and that doesn't mean we should limit ourselves i'm not saying that i'm not saying that but what i'm saying is you are really really over inflating the impact of a few technological minute increases in improvement versus where this is not the we have not we are not experiencing the same leap forward that we saw with the move to the dmd era dennis there's no good explanation than why i like stranger things so much more than i like some of these pins that people are raving i there's got of an explanation. You just have different tastes. You have different tastes. There we go. I like that word. We're getting closer to emotion there, buddy. We discussed this back when you used to do Straight Down the Middle. And I knew that there was something there. And you are just someone where code depth and layout are not your top areas. Your areas are spectacle, light show, I would argue against that, no. tartan things up. That's you. yeah I like watching films because why do you watch movies it is biased to you in favor of that game and that's the way it is you will not be able to answer this why do you like watching films I don't know you see where exactly you see where I'm going you do not want to go down that way what do you mean I can go down any way I want come on down this path why do you watch films it depends on the type of film I'm watching don't do it why do you like them usually you don't just watch them to inform no no that would be like why i would watch documentary but like if i'm watching a film it's usually about the story what does that story do it elicits an emotional reaction it doesn't have good technical plot points good cinematography that it's it's more than that execution matters yes it's more than that but what does it otherwise you fall out of the story do you have your report card checklist when you're watching a film you're like i'm allowed to like this it has all the technicalities and the code and the layout right if i'm critiquing a film i suppose i would i don't have a background exactly but whenever you do watch it you can say i enjoy it i love it i hate it right i can tell you why though you can tell me why but what you're watching them not to critique them you're watching them to experience it that experience is nothing more than emotion it's nothing more than tone i don't understand your point the point is i'm not saying pinball has that too yes I know but a lot of people experience that with the enjoyment of the gameplay you need an LCD screen to care I need emotion no to you emotion is you want pinball to be a movie that's what you want and that's fine I want it to be an experience you can choose to be in this hobby not for the gameplay oh no that's assuming that I'm in the hobby that's a big assumption that I don't care about the gameplay That's why I like Star Wars, and people are wrong about the premium LED Star Wars. You like Star Wars. You see, notice that critique. People are just wrong. You have a non-interactive hyperloop that just moves the ball around for you, and to you, Star Wars Pro, suck. Star Wars with gimmick, great. One of the greatest toys that makes me feel an emotion with the light show and with the actual tactile feedback on my hands. A Rube Goldberg machine that you're just watching a ball go around. I feel like I'm going through the hyperspace. No. No, it's the getaway ramp done perfectly.
    88:29
    That's what it is. It's better than the getaway ramp. I mean, that's fine to have that opinion. I'm not anti-hyperloop. I'm just saying, like, the way the game actually plays, not that different. I've played both. Not that different. Orbits are great on that game. Mini-loop is great. No. Not that different. Stand-up banking. Both pro and premium have the same exact torrid flaws on the plunge. People are not allowed to like Star Trek Stern as one of their favorite games, Dennis Creasel, and then try to shit on Star Wars Premium L.E. It's impossible because Star Wars Premium L.E. I'm saying that you claiming that there's a substantive difference where you can recommend one and not the other shows where your priorities lie, and it's not gameplay. I disagree, and I think I've proven my point quite well. You have not. I think people are listening. Explain why Zach did not prove his point. I think people are like, this son of a bitch is a genius. That's what they're thinking about me. This guy is good. Like, he actually can capture something against Dennis Criswell here. No, no, you will die.
    89:36
    That was a good discussion. I like it. Let's not have that one again. It was boring. That's why people, that's how I know it's good. That's why people tune in. Everybody's, all these podcasters are worried about there's no news. What are we going to do? We're hiding behind a rack. There's no news. Guess what? That's when Dennis and I shine. bring on no news let's close down this show Dennis you can reach us at the pinball network at gmail.com and you can go to our we have a website the pinball network dot net maybe we'll do something more to that you can follow us on twitter, facebook, instagram special thanks to all of those in the committee that are helping with streaming efforts, with social media efforts etc Dennis and I are appreciative of that and if you want to reach out to Dennis specifically you can do so at the Pinball Network but you can also do so where Dennis? You can always email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com Very nice you guys have an episode this week so tune in to that tomorrow likely If you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine you can do so by going to we'll type it together are you ready flip the letter in out pinball.com Boom. You're not going to see those adapters up there, right? Yeah. You need to get a video output adapter. Go to ollie.baba.
    90:58
    Man, you're good when it comes to that whole story. You've been punchline. Man, nicely done. It writes itself. Best damn co-host in pinball. You can also buy an Escalera from us over at Flippin' Out Pinball. Training up this week, Escalera sales. Yeah, but training down, Throwing him down the stairs and not telling people. Oh, man. Please don't do that. That was a bad deal.
    91:21
    I think they're already shipping him out his brand new one. Oh, nice. Man, quicker than I thought. Straight Down the Middle on YouTube, a video series. Go check that out. You can email me there at sctmpinball at gmail.com. The next This or That, that's the only ones you're willing to start. They're your best. Nah, I would argue.
    91:40
    We're recording some stuff. Dude, I don't. It's Greg Bone. I have no clue. why are you always blaming greg because he's the one that is the he is why he's the one that we don't record because of you know he's busy he doesn't care as much yeah because you're not busy at all yeah but his type of busy is different than my type of busy i'll just pile on more he's got a level of which he'll go to and then he's done last week on tp and we welcomed in a brand new affiliate streamer that's right fox city's pinball hell yeah welcome fox city's pinball and tom graph hell of a player tom for b division oh that trophy looked so awesome though it does it does damn i wish i was good enough for b division i wish i was too you might be you never play competitively i know where my skill set's at I don't I'm not beat division I know where my it's not beat division I don't know don't sell yourself short maybe that's why I like Star Wars because I can hit the hyper loop oh snap I know some competitive people really like Star Wars it's a very polarizing game I don't know really smart people Travis Murray you know I don't know I don't have enough time on it actually wait a minute does Travis have the pro I think he's got the premium hmm Jesse J's Pinball Adventures her and Ryan C had a new episode. Go check that out. Yep, I listened to that. Man, they got a little risque there. She doesn't put up with any of his crap. No, she doesn't.
    93:17
    And she loves The Shadow, so for that, I love her. Oh, yeah, well, she does seem to have a really good taste in pinball. Oh, man.
    93:24
    TPN, oh, I was going to mention this. I got to tell you, one of my favorite parts right now about the pinball network is one that other people don't know about. It's our damn internal Discord conversations. Yeah. Originally I had set up a discord to be designed for external. And then we had a separate one set up for internal and I discontinued the external cause I wasn't sure what was going on. And now the internal one's really busy. It's so much fun. And I, I've got to say, like, I was kind of cramping on the idea of doing discord cause you were saying, let's do discord. And I was totally wrong that it is easy to go back into and catch up, catch up with. And They're all really snarky. Oh, they're good. We've got some witty, successful people in TPN Discord. None of you get to experience it. So, na-na-na, booboo. They can. All they've got to do is submit their interest in doing a podcast, right? Yeah, we could use a couple more podcasts for sure. Yeah, or stream or YouTube. Look, YouTube's wide open. Yeah, that's true. Poor YouTube. Yeah. What's coming up this week on TPN? we've got a midweek with Craig Bobby, I believe. I thought that was supposed to be last week. It's Craig. He's a perfectionist. Craig, come on, man. You used to be pushing it. Now you're coasting, dude. Final Round Pitball Podcast is, I believe, they're due this week. It's a nice training podcast there as well. They get all the best sponsors. They do. They aren't hurting for no $500 a month. You lost Jeff the moment you dissed Hart. I don't think he'll ever forgive you. He won't. And you know what? I'll have to earn back that trust. I'm okay with that.
    95:04
    I didn't get any shit for, for crapping on the doors. I noticed. All right, Dennis, I love the conversation today, but, um, I don't know. I really don't want to hear from you until next week.
    95:18
    That's fine. You know, you won't. Exactly. That's kind of felt good to say what you always present to me without saying it. So until next week, Always remember to not just send out your pre-production samples. Stern, don't blame me. Don't call me.
    95:36
    And always practice safe pinball, and it's got to tickle the balls, Dennis. Ah! So long, everybody. Just a minute. What, buddy? I don't poop. Where's my butt?
    95:50
    Did you hear that, Dennis? I couldn't make it out. You said, I wet poop. Can you wipe my butt? Okay I thought poop might have been said Just from the laughter tone Just a minute let me go wipe his butt out I don't know what his mom's doing Go wipe that out take out Just a minute Just like let him wander Smear and poo between his cheeks Just wandering around This is what I put up with all the time On this show I don't know why I do it This imparts drama come play pinball they said it's fun they said we're not full of a bunch of cry babies they get worked up over every little thing they said i think i want tacos wow this must be a lot of poop i'm still sitting here it's quiet now they came from the blackness all right sorry about that you're back poopapalooza resolved oh yeah now i assume that was your younger son yes what my 15 year old yeah okay well you might I know therapy is your specialty but you might need to work work work on the coordination skills or something still on the bottle yeah i'm having a hard time here it's smearing get the hose dad i need the hose that was my it won't stop my three-year-old they still their arms don't grow as it's a little tough