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We Are Pinball #15 "American Pinball in Trouble? IAAPA Preview! Stern Value Debate!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 35m·analyzed·Nov 20, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.043

TL;DR

WAP #15: American Pinball financial concerns, JJP's arcade bundling system, Stern pricing analysis.

Summary

We Are Pinball episode #15 features hosts Don and Genghis discussing American Pinball's financial troubles (referencing Carrie Hardy's critical video), Jersey Jack Pinball's new Pinball XP arcade system at IAAPA, and an extensive 'best bang for your buck' analysis of current Stern games (Star Wars, Iron Maiden, Deadpool, Black Knight Sword of Rage). The hosts debate Pro/Premium/LE value propositions and discuss pricing trends across the pinball market.

Key Claims

  • American Pinball hasn't created anything with 'Metallica LE energy' and games haven't met sales projections.

    medium confidence · Don discussing American Pinball's market performance relative to Stern's recent hits

  • American Pinball's parent company is withholding new funding, requiring them to finish current inventory before green-lighting new games.

    medium confidence · Genghis explaining capital constraints: 'whoever's holding the money there / Their parent company is saying / Why don't you finish what's on your plate first'

  • American Pinball has reduced pricing on in-stock games by $500.

    high confidence · Genghis: 'the 500 i think of all in stock games um and that was like i guess i'm assuming what's sitting at dealers and maybe at the warehouse'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball is selling Godfather, Toy Story 4, and Guns N' Roses with price reductions at IAAPA ($2,500 off Godfather/Toy Story, $1,000 off Guns N' Roses).

    high confidence · Genghis reporting from IAAPA show floor: official pricing photos and reductions

  • JJP's new Elton John Platinum and Avatar LE are being sold at $11,000 at IAAPA (down from $12,000 retail).

    high confidence · Genghis: 'I saw $11,000 on Elton John Platinum and Avatar LE right now from the show floor'

  • Metallica topper costs $1,000 and is only 50% the width of the back box, unlike Jaws and Foo Fighters toppers which have full-width backdrops.

    high confidence · Genghis analyzing accessory specs: 'The topper is $1,000... it takes up 50% of the size of the top of the cabinet. Why doesn't it take 100%?'

  • Stern designs games starting with full LE specs, then removes features to create Pro versions.

    high confidence · Don answering design methodology question: 'they design a full game full le and then they start taking off stuff and make the pro'

  • Star Wars Pro version is missing significant ramps and the Hyperloop feature, making it significantly emptier than Premium/LE.

Notable Quotes

  • “If everything he's saying is truth, then it looks pretty dark for American Pinball... he ate it up yum yum no crumbs, man. There was nothing left after that.”

    Genghis @ early in episode — Referencing Carrie Hardy's critical video on American Pinball's business troubles; establishes the episode's opening topic and community perception of the company's difficulties

  • “This isn't a haggis situation, okay? This isn't American Pinball is taking people's money and not delivering games... they're not scamming people at all.”

    Don @ American Pinball discussion — Clarifies that American Pinball's issues are financial/capital constraints rather than fraud, distinguishing from other defunct manufacturers like Haggis

  • “They gotta sell some games... they're ready they want to build they want to order parts apparently the game was fun but the man behind it are saying dude you have all these games sell them first.”

    Genghis @ American Pinball/Cuphead discussion — Explains the 'sell sell sell' mode and capital constraint preventing new game production despite completed design work

  • “I want made in America. American Metallica. You know what I mean, man?”

    Genghis @ Metallica accessory discussion — Critiques Metallica topper as undersized and manufactured in China, expressing preference for full-width American-made design

  • “The Pro shoots a little better because it's open more for that Death Star shot, which is just a little turnaround anyway. So if you were getting it for a location, I would probably consider just put the Pro over there.”

    Don @ Star Wars value discussion — Key claim: Pro version adequate for location operators despite significant feature gaps, based on earning potential equivalence

  • “I think you're getting enough on a pro. It hurts me to say that. But, yeah, I went for premium because I love that.”

    Don @ Iron Maiden discussion — Acknowledges Pro viability while expressing personal preference for Premium; shows tension between objective value and subjective gameplay experience

Entities

We Are Pinball (WAP)organizationDonpersonGenghispersonAmerican Pinball Inc.companyCarrie HardypersonJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companyStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball facing capital constraints; parent company withholding funding pending inventory clearance; games not meeting projections; pursuing aggressive discounting ($500 off all in-stock games); Cuphead production stalled waiting for parts funding.

    high · Genghis: 'the bills need to be paid to get the parts to make the next game... their parent company is saying Why don't you finish what's on your plate first Before we give you this new money... they're like we gotta get parts ordered Or we can't make a game'

  • ?

    business_signal: Secondary market Deadpool LE pricing ($12.5k-$19k) significantly above current new Premium pricing ($10k), indicating strong depreciation pressure on older limited editions and potential market cooling.

    high · Genghis checking secondary market: 'Deadpool LE... $18,000, $19,000, $14,000 or best offer, $12,499' vs new Premium at $10k

  • ?

    community_signal: We Are Pinball launching Patreon with $5 after-show access and $50 VIP studio access tier; first supporter (SilverGone360) joined minutes after launch; indicates growing podcast monetization in community.

    high · Genghis announcing: 'we just made this. We just opened it up. And like a few minutes later, we got the first supporter, SilverGone360... first supporter... Thank you, SilverGone, for joining'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern executing rapid release schedule (X-Men, Iron Maiden, Metallica in succession) with same-day accessory drops; positioning as market leader on product velocity.

    high · Genghis: 'Look at the speed. Look at the X-Men pumping out. Iron Man... Metallica pumping out. And a week later now, accessories pumping out... They're just on fire.'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.286

0:00
oh changus you can tell by those banging beats that it is once again time for a we are pinball episode what's going on my brother oh yeah baby we're back again it's good man it's all good it's nighttime in denmark how are you doing i'm doing good man it's is this hip-hop's only pinball podcast? It is what it is, man. It's something like something is going down, down, under. That's the rumor. And we're not just talking about the economy. We're not just talking about the market. We're talking about more companies? What? Oh, no. Have you heard this? We don't want that. No company should go under. The American economy and the American pinball are both going under, it seems. If you believe what people are talking about. Uh-oh. Did you watch that Carol Hardy video, he talked about this. I watched it twice. I would recommend everybody to watch it. He destroyed American Pinball completely. If everything he's saying is truth, then it looks pretty dark for American Pinball, don't you think? I mean, he ate it up yum yum no crumbs, man. There was nothing left after that. Now, I'm trying to verify this kind of information and I'm hearing that, well, not everything was 100% accurate but who knows. But if you want to hear an internet takedown My god, man, my god I recommend everybody to watch that show It was just Something in me wants to say No, this ain't happening American Pinball is going to survive And make a lot of great pinball machines For many, many years to come But I also have some Distro info I want to share Should I share it here Or should I share it on Patreon Oh, wait, wait, Patreon? Who's got a Patreon?
2:00
Yeah, oh, guys, everybody, Donnie, he just set up this great Patreon page. You have to come in and join. We have already two shows out because Don and I, we have these great conversations. We talk about pinball. Don has his own pinball podcast show, and everybody loves Don. But I'm telling you, if you join our Patreon, just $5, you can listen to Donnie version 2.0. Now, this is a different Donnie, and you will love it because I enjoy it. So come on in and check it out. So, Donnie, if people join for the $5. $5, man. We'll get you into the after show and access to all of our after recordings. Like, when we're done recording, like, I hate stop, but then we talk for, like, 45 minutes, like, openly and candidly about a bunch of stuff that we typically wouldn't, you know, on public airways. So, yeah, come into the lounge and hang out for five bucks or, heck. Or what happens if they support with 50 bucks? $50. We'll get you VIP big baller access to both me and Genghis. You can come into the studio and sit on my lap and join the show virtually, of course. Yeah. If you want to give us a great endowment, it will help fund the show, of course. You'll get our undying adoration for that. Hell, I'll send you a T-shirt. But you can also join the show as well. Join the show. Jump on in here. We'll do a whole segment. Join the show. Tell me what you think. We're going to ask you who's your daddy and what does he do. Absolutely. That's mandatory. Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Also, also, you will be thanked on every show. Every single show. The 50 bucks supporter would be thanked every time. We just made this. We just opened it up. And like a few minutes later, we got the first supporter, SilverGone360.

high confidence · Genghis describing Pro playfield: 'plastic ramps all to the right all to the left... from three meter it feels like ghost ramp doesn't exist and it doesn't have the hyperloop'

  • Iron Maiden Pro lacks moving mechanical elements (sarcophagus, moving ramp) and has only 'three dr. arm triggers,' making it feel 'static' compared to LE.

    high confidence · Genghis: 'the pro version... nothing moved nothing like nothing on the pro is moving'

  • Deadpool LE originally sold for under $8,000 when released; secondary market prices now range from $12,500-$19,000.

    high confidence · Genghis: 'when it came out, we bought the LE for like under 8K' and later checking prices: '$18,000, $19,000, $14,000 or best offer, $12,499'

    • “I don't understand the stupid ramp on the orbit that you get on the premium... I'm wondering if maybe they designed the game and they're like, shoot, we don't really have much for the premium. What else can we throw in here?”

    Don @ Deadpool Premium feature critique — Questions whether Stern's Premium features are intentional design choices or afterthoughts due to lack of mechanical differentiation

  • “This is one of George Gomez's best games ever... If you want to buy a brand new one today, if I should recommend you, go for the premium. Absolutely.”

    Genghis @ Deadpool value conclusion — Final value recommendation: Premium balances price and feature set better than LE secondary market inflation

  • “they design a full game full le and then they start taking off stuff and make the pro”

    Don @ Game design methodology discussion — Confirms Stern's design-down approach from LE to Pro, fundamental to understanding tier feature distribution

  • “The code on this game, you start a mode and you need to hit three places, and only those three inserts are lit up. It's so simple. Everybody understands it.”

    Genghis @ Deadpool gameplay design praise — Praises accessible, straightforward rule design; notes 8-year-old son could understand and play without difficulty

    • Star Wars (Stern, 2017)
    game
    Iron Maiden (Stern)game
    Deadpool (Stern, 2018)game
    Black Knight: Sword of Rage (Stern)game
    Metallica (Stern)game
    Cuphead (American Pinball, TBA)game
    Valhalla (American Pinball)game
    Barrios Barbecue Challenge (American Pinball)game
    Galactic Tank Force (American Pinball)game
    Elton John Platinum (JJP)game
    Avatar LE (JJP)game
    Godfather (JJP)game
    Toy Story 4 (JJP)game
    Guns N' Roses (JJP)game
    Pinball XP (JJP, TBA)product
    George Gomezperson
    Steve Ritchieperson
    IAAPA 2025event
    SilverGone360person

    product_concern: Star Wars Pro version acceptable for location operators but significantly diminished for home players; feature gap between Pro and Premium/LE may create confusion around recommended tier.

    high · Don reconciling tension: 'if you were getting it for a location, I would probably consider just put the Pro over there' vs Genghis: 'for home never go with the pro like no way on this one'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Deadpool Premium's orbit ramp diverter questioned as questionable design choice; Don suggests it may have been an afterthought filler feature rather than intentional design.

    medium · Don: 'I'm wondering if maybe they designed the game and they're like, shoot, we don't really have much for the premium. What else can we throw in here?'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball heavily discounting legacy inventory (Godfather $2.5k off, Toy Story $2.5k off, Guns N' Roses $1k off) at IAAPA; new releases (Elton John Platinum, Avatar LE) selling below retail ($11k vs $12k list).

    high · Genghis documenting IAAPA show floor pricing; JJP official photos showing reductions

  • $

    market_signal: JJP bundling legacy unsold inventory (Godfather, Toy Story 4, Guns N' Roses) into new Pinball XP arcade system ($100k total package) as creative solution to move excess stock.

    high · Genghis: 'way to bundle the old unsold J.J.P. games with some of the newer ones that are coming out... it's a good idea'

  • $

    market_signal: Metallica topper at $1k for only 50% back box width, undersized compared to Jaws and Foo Fighters; expression lights at $600 (up from $400-$499 for Led Zeppelin); accessory pricing contributing to margin recovery rather than base game price increases.

    high · Genghis analyzing accessories: 'The topper is $1,000... it takes up 50% of the size of the top of the cabinet... Why doesn't it take 100%?'; noting price increase: '$4.99... Now they're $5.99, 600'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern's Pro/Premium/LE tiering designed from LE downward (features removed for lower tiers). Star Wars Pro criticized as 'empty' missing Hyperloop and metal wire forms. Iron Maiden Pro lacks moving sarcophagus and speaker system. Deadpool Pro missing drop targets and disco ball.

    high · Don confirming design methodology: 'they design a full game full le and then they start taking off stuff and make the pro'; Genghis detailing specific feature gaps across Star Wars, Iron Maiden, Deadpool

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Don's reassessment of Black Knight: Sword of Rage from dismissal ('too brutal') to appreciation as skill-based classic upon improved play; suggests older games gaining reconsideration in current market.

    medium · Don: 'I didn't – so I liked this game when I first got to it... And then I kind of wrote it off... And then as I got better at pinball, all of a sudden [trails off, indicating positive shift]'

    • 3:53
    Hell yeah, man. What's up, dude? Hell yeah. It's the first supporter. Thank you, SilverGone, for joining. I hope you're enjoying the shows after our shows. But it's so cool he just joined in. Now, everybody knows. If you like this, come in. We can see the numbers. We can see the numbers are going up all the time. This is a new show, right? This is the newest pinball podcast out there. Right, Donnie? Get in on the community. We're doing posts. Heck, we might even start a Discord.
    4:25
    We are also on Facebook, our page. It's really cool. Now, we have got a little chat group going on there. Glenn, he actually wrote a couple of hours ago, he was like, we said that we would make a show today, and Glenn was, you need to talk about some older games also. And I'm all down with that, but Donnie is, and Donnie wants to talk about what's coming out in six months from now. I can't help it, man. I live in the constant future. But I could get down with some Data East, man. Come on. I love some. We're going to talk about old games also. But first of all, American Pinball. Yes. I think, I hope, I hope that they will survive, to be honest.
    5:09
    One of their games that's called Valhalla, I really enjoy it. Like, like, really? So what have you heard? So I will say, yeah, to recap, like this isn't a haggis situation, okay? This isn't American Pinball is taking people's money and not delivering games. If you want and order a Berrios barbecue challenge, boom, lightning fast, it's going to be at your house. If you want a Galactic Tank Force, boom, it's going to be there. And probably $2,000 cheaper than it was originally released for. So, like, they're not scamming people at all. It's just that they haven't created anything that's just gang-bustering, got to have it. You know, they don't have any Metallica LE energy, right? They don't even have any Stern Topper energy right now. But maybe that's to come. So the sense is, you know, games haven't been meeting projections, and the bills need to be paid to get the parts to make the next game. But apparently whoever's holding the money there Their parent company is saying Why don't you finish what's on your plate first Before we give you this new money Meanwhile they're like we gotta get parts ordered Or we can't make a game So I don't know man But I think the name of the game right now is like Sell sell sell They gotta sell some games It is I mean Rumors are saying they don't have money To build these Cup head games yeah they're ready they want to build they want to order parts apparently the game was fun the man behind it are saying dude you have all these games sell them first now they are doing something for selling them i mean we just got was it 500 off or was it thousand off yeah the 500 i think of all in stock games um and that was like i guess i'm assuming what's sitting at dealers and maybe at the warehouse so it's on sell sell sell mode so they are trying and i hope they will survive because I don't want no pinball company to shut down. Of course, a company that steals from people, they should just shut down and shut up forever. Shut down or I will come and shut you down. Yeah, this is not I mean, David Figgs is not stealing. He's not, nothing like that. He's really trying to make this work. So I'm crossing my fingers. I hope that it works. But on after our show, I'm going to share some distro info with you that really irritates me. So, yeah, let's keep that to a later show, Donnie. I'm excited. I want to get to that. All right. Yeah, baby. So how about JJP? Yeah. What have you heard about them, Donnie? So IAPA show is going on right now. It just started this week. The show floor opens to the public on Thursday, but vendors and industry folks are already down there. And so some photos came out today already. And so JJP has kind of revealed what this new product is that they're going for. Call it Pinball XP. I don't have hardly any details, but the gist is it looks like a system where you purchase five JJP games and you get five jumbo monitors with cameras that are showing off the gameplay and displaying it on this giant wall. Right. And there'll be some kind of progressive mechanism to it where you can log in and earn points and things. If you're at an arcade that gives tickets or tokens, you get those back. You can earn rewards and prizes and stuff. and this whole system, I guess, is they're trying to get $100,000 for it, and it'll give you the five games, the screens, the trust, the electrical stuff, the cameras, and the whole bit.
    8:34
    So on the surface, if that's what it is, like, hey, make this big purchase, and we'll fill up an entire wall of your arcade with this big, like, can't-miss-it awesome display, I think it's a good idea because it's a way to bundle the old unsold J.J.P. games with some of the newer ones that are coming out. um it does it looks impressive yeah so is there on sold games donnie so godfather toy story 4 and guns and roses are all over the place um right now they announced that they're doing a price reduction at the show of 2500 off of godfather and toy story and i think it even extra thousand dollars off of guns and roses going by the prices i saw in this photo you can even get officially announced it's it's stuck on the machine yeah i think they did officially announce that and then From the show floor, I saw $11,000 on Elton John Platinum and Avatar LE right now from the show floor. They're two newest games. They're $12,000 games. They're both listed at $11,000 from the show floor. I'm assuming that's if they don't have a bunch of games like they sell from the show floor at IAAPA. This is a trade show. So I think this is if you want to purchase directly from them and then get them shipped out to your arcades.
    9:45
    Do you want me to share distro info? Should I confirm or save it till later or deny? What do you want? What do you want to hear? Just let me know. You can allude to it. We can go into more details at the after show. But yeah, what do you got? All right. At the after show, I will tell you what's going down, okay? You're going to get your $5 worth of this one. I know what's going on. Oh, I can't wait. Let's save it. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, they're trying. It's cool. Today, I want to talk about Stern. Oh, first of all, before we go into the deep dive, we just saw the accessories for the Iron Maiden. That topper, do you like it? By Iron Maiden, I think you mean Metallica. I mean Metallica. Yeah, yeah, Metallica, Metallica. Yeah, so all the accessories just dropped this morning, and so I had time to go through them. And I got a couple of hot takes. First off, they look fine. Everything looks fine. I'm not blown away. It's kind of what I expected. I'm not disappointed. They look cool I would want them The shooter rod, I like the shooter rod It looks cool The topper, it should be wider The whole back box should be A bit more I think A bit more What I think is they kept the prices for the pinball machine The same, they haven't raised those But here's where they're getting those extra margins And when I scroll down to The must have accessory For your Metallica machine If you didn't get the LE, the remastered is the expression lights for the cabinet because they look boss, man. And we saw them come out at around $350 initially with Led Zeppelin, and they were like $4, $4.99. Now they're $5.99, 600 United States Eagle double-golded print coin dollars to get one of these things. The armor? The armor is $399.
    11:40
    Jesus, man. How much for the topper? The topper is $1,000. We'll get you the Metallica logo in acrylic. It looks three-dimensional with individually light-up letters that are plugged into the letters in the back of the play field. As you're shooting shots and stuff, you gain Metallica letters. When you fill them all up, there's some kind of big thing that goes off. I don't know. Ray Day talked about it for an hour in the Loser Kid podcast, and I was blown away. And I don't remember the details. And then there's, like, four flasher bulbs that are on that, and, like, that's kind of it. But the thing is, it's like it takes up 50% of the size of the top of the cabinet. Why doesn't it take 100%? Good question. That was my question, right? Because we've seen with Jaws, we've seen with Foo Fighters that you have something in the foreground, which the Metallica sign is fine, but then there's like a backdrop, right? Even the Godzilla topper has this cityscape with LED lights in the background and everything missing from this one. I remember when you play this game when you loop those ram shots you will start collecting Metallica letters and you could see it on the DMD screen M E T it's cool that every time you collect a letter it will light up on the back box but it should be complete the same size as the back box I just want to stretch that topper I want to walk up and I want to see Metallica I don't want to see Metallica.
    13:16
    Exactly. This is Chinese-made Metallica. I want made in America. American Metallica. You know what I mean, man? Oh, man. But, yeah, for $1,000.
    13:29
    Yeah, it's peanuts in that world, right? I'm not surprised at all either. Like this is kind of what I expected. it. So you spent $13,000 for the LE and then you don't get the shooter rod, you don't get the topper, so now you... Hmm. And you're going to get it. You're going to get it. So, I mean... But to be honest, it does not look bad. I like it. And look at the speed. Look at the X-Men pumping out. Iron Man... Metallica pumping out. And a week later now, accessories pumping out. And it's just on top of the next X-Men topper pumping out. They're just on fire. Back to the Future is going to be pumping out.
    14:14
    I love it. They're on fire, man. It's so cool. Love it. Yeah. So, oh, my God. What did you hear about American Pinball? What do you mean?
    14:29
    Pinball Brothers. Oh, nothing. Nothing? What's going on with them? Nothing. Okay, we haven't heard anything. Okay.
    14:37
    All right. So we're not going to talk about that yet. All right. So I think they had one of the guys from ABBA come and play ABBA, and it was like a weird YouTube reel they released. It was like a minute long. I need our next upcoming game, Donnie. Oh. Yeah, oh. Should we talk about that? I haven't heard any more about it. But the rumor, I think I talked about it. Anyway. Have you? When's Predator coming out? I want to play Predator. And are we going to be able to link it up to Alien so we can play Alien versus Predator?
    15:12
    I have some – no, later, later. Are you sitting on some secret information? Donnie, in today's video, we're going to talk about a thing that a lot of – I don't want to call people fans because we are grown up. A lot of people that listens to your show, watches my videos, and listen to our show here, loves to hear best bang for your buck. Oh, man. Yeah. And in today's pinball market, it's a really, really important question. Because it's just so, so much money. So we are going to jump into Stern's page. and we're going to check out all their current games that they are building and selling. All the way back to Star Wars and all the way up top, Metallica. We're going to go in and dissect and say, this title should get the Pro, Premium or the LE. Where do you get your best bang for your buck? What do you think about that, Tony? Isn't it cool? I think it is my duty to protect the consumer and give them top quality advice for their $7,000 to $10,000 purchases. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. So let's go ahead and start. All right. Down at the bottom, still in production, still on – Still. At the end of the page is Star Wars. As I remember, this game is from 2017. Yes. I want to ask you, have you played Pro, Premium, and LE of that game? Absolutely. Are you kidding me? three yes all three love it okay people hate it love it so so so so when it came back then the le was like seven thousand dollars yeah seven thousand dollars yeah so i bought the le i don't own it anymore but um if i should start with this one i know you have this game so let me just tell you how i feel about it so i got the le because it's my dream theme and this game was designed by Steve Ritchie, and this was episode 456. I mean, you cannot go wrong. You just buy it before trying it. It is what it is. So I didn't like Gandalf speaking in it.
    17:35
    It is Gandalf. And at the time, I launched the ball, hit those drop-down targets. It just went out the right out. You must unlearn what you have learned. I was like, shut the fuck up. so yeah and while i was playing and i was frustrated i visited my brother and he had a couple of these games these star wars games the pro versions and he took out when i visited him he took out some of the parts and he was installing playfield protectors and i just went in there at that moment and i was like bro okay you're installing playfield protectors you want to put these out on location and jay was yeah and i was like so you're missing a lot of stuff and he looked at me and he was like no this is the pro version and i'm like sure this is the first time i'm seeing this but ain't a lot of stuff missing and he was like no man and i looked at this it has got plastic ramps all to the right all to the left of the cabinet so when you look from three meter i don't know how long yeah from from some distance it feels like ghost ramp doesn't exist and it doesn't have the hyperloop it has nothing the pro version is so empty it's like i cannot recommend to get a star wars pro like no way and this game is all about the hyperloop So this game, if I should recommend something, it's completely premium LE. How do you feel about it? So I have a nuanced approach to this, okay? The big complaint about this game is that the balls drain really fast if you aren't careful because of how the plunge is and where the drop targets are, whatever. That's the same on the pro and premium. So essentially that's a wash. For me having this game, I want the metal wire forms. I want the Hyperloop. I want to blow up the Death Star. It's one of the best feelings in pinball that I've had. Once you dial the game in, it's doable. It's achievable. And so, like, I dig it. So, of course, premium LE is where I win. And, you know, I put up a mirror back glass on there, put the LE armor, got lights on it. The whole thing's nuts. Looks like the Death Star. Love it. But I don't think that the premium, if you're a location operator, the premium would earn you any more money than the pro would. I think on location, the fact that it's Star Wars, that's the main draw. And then everything else is, you know, the call-outs are the same, the rules are the same, whatever. You're missing a lot of ramps. Most people don't know that. The Pro shoots a little better because it's open more for that Death Star shot, which is just a little turnaround anyway. So if you were getting it for a location, I would probably consider just put the Pro over there and, you know, be done with it. Hurts my heart to say that because the Premium is such a better experience, you know, for me. um but earning wise i don't know that people would be playing it anymore with the premium than the pro just money wise star wars is a popular and great earning machine the pro version still but at home i mean sometimes you can say it's so much cheaper go with the pro but for home never go with the pro like no way on this one no way i have one more thing i know This is probably a side thing, but Star Wars has a home edition that you can pick up for like $3,500 right now probably, still in a box somewhere.
    21:07
    And that play is really good. I like that layout. Okay, I haven't tried the home version, so I can't say.
    21:14
    They use the same layout in Heavy Metal, which is also really fun to play. It's a cool little layout. It's got some more cool tricks in it than I think even the Cornerstone does. Well, the Cornerstone plays beefy. It's like really robust. the home version for Star Wars you get for $3,000 as an MDF play field it's not going to hold up like a commercial machine but it's still a fun layout I hope they do a remaster of one of those at Costco like they did with Jurassic Park ok alright so we agree Star Wars go with the premium elite right? cool next game on the list is one of my favorite games Iron Maiden oh yeah I love Iron Maiden so you should start with this one. What do you think? I had an Iron Maiden Premium, and so this is a game kind of like Deadpool, which we'll probably talk about, where the pro is just fine. I don't think you're getting much more great enough things to justify the extra costs, although I really like the premium. I like the extra little things that have the sarcophagus lock that moves, the ramp that flips up that you could shoot underneath, even though it's just a Vuck that shoots the ball right back out at you. It's just more kinetically fun stuff. You know, there was one other thing, too. There's something like, you know, there's a drop target instead of a stand-up target or something, which I appreciate.
    22:32
    I guess it depends on what you're looking for. If you just want to have a fun Iron Maiden game to play at home and you'll have it for a while and get rid of it, you know, the Pro is fine. But if you're going to hang on to it for a while and trick it out, I like the premium on this one. But I don't think there's as much value there as other games. All right. So let me tell you how I feel about this one. Now, this is from my favorite designer, his first game, right, when it came out. Okay, cool. So, oh, I'm so sorry. I need to. No, go ahead and answer it. We'll wait. Talk amongst yourselves. Go grab a coffee.
    23:09
    So, I unboxed this game, the limited edition version. I love the music. So, something is off with the audio quality of this game. The recording feels like it's from the 80s. If you have great hearing, then you will know what I mean. But the LE, I absolutely love the LE. Like everything, all the way down to the artwork with all that metallic. At the right ramp it has got this LED thing that turns around with different colors Love it Love the figurines Love the sarcophagus What it called Ball lock system Everything is awesome on the LE I still love it. It's maybe my top five game still. Top five Stern game. So, years later, I don't know what happened. We took one of the location games home, and I played the pro version. after years of years of gameplay of the limited edition of our maiden i played the pro it was so static nothing moved nothing like nothing on the pro is moving right oh it has got three dr. arm triggers that's it but not it was so empty so static on top of that it didn't have the Kenwood speaker system. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was such a boring experience for me. I was like, no, go away. It just ruined everything for me. So for this game, 100% music pin, limited edition for me. Like, get the LE. They're still holding up the price.
    25:01
    Yeah, I love it. The premium has got this yellow, yellow, yellow all over the place. God, I love it. Love it. Yeah, love it. But the LE, look at the LE, man. Do you remember back in the 80s, those cool kids that they were like five years older than us? They had these Iron Maiden posters in their rooms. I was too little to have stuff like that. But when I visited my friends, their big brothers had these, you know, melted 80s head, you know, with the plate. and you have all of that on the limited edition, all those posters. Oh, it looks so good, Donnie. It's a fun game. I'm glad I had it. I want to ask a designer next time I run by one, you know, do they design the game for the premium LE layout and then look for things to pull off for the pro, or do they design a pro and then look for things to put into it to make the premium? Oh, I can answer on that. Yeah. they design a full game full le and then they start taking off stuff and make the pro yeah so they design you know full full on yeah that's it for me personally yeah i tend to be a premium guy because i want the full game i don't want to feel like i bought this thing and there's like things i don't have and can't do you know yeah yeah but on this game i mean those four flippers, loopable. Oh, I love this game. Everybody, buy the Iron Man, nearly. It's such a cool game. So Donnie is saying all three are okay.
    26:34
    You think the pro is okay? I think it's got all the shots. It's got the music. You know, you don't get the tomb that opens up, but it's not like there's an extra upper play field, really. So, you know, it's kind of like I'm sure we're going to get the Deadpool. I think you're getting enough on a pro. It hurts me to say that. But, yeah, I went for premium because I love that. Okay. But, yeah, you're right. It is more static. I don't know.
    27:02
    I say completely go early on that one. I love it. All right. Next game, Donnie's favorite game, Deadpool from Stern. Deadpool comics. Comics.
    27:14
    Have you played all three versions? Absolutely. How do you feel about them? Do you want to buy one of them? No. Oh, and it sucks because, like, Deadpool's right. Like, I should love this freaking game. But the gameplay's okay. I like playing it on location. There's not a ton that's offered on the premium one versus the pro. You get the spinning glitter ball, right, the mirror ball that's in the back. That's cool. It is. It's cool. It's really cool. When you start that disco mode. I know. But, like, as far as just, like, a mechanism, there's not a whole lot to it, you know, to feel like they removed it. And then I don't understand the stupid ramp on the orbit that you get on the premium. You know, sometimes there's like a little diverter flap that'll put the ball up into the katana if you hit that orbit. And, like, so what?
    28:06
    And then it flaps and you can get it back to a right flipper. This is why I'm wondering if maybe they designed the game and they're like, shoot, we don't really have much for the premium. What else can we throw in here? I got this kind of roughed out diverter from some other game we can cram in there. Fine, fine, do it. Put it in. We'll call it a feature. I don't really think it adds anything. But, Donnie, this game, when it came out, we bought the LE for like under 8K. Right, okay. Different world. Yeah, and I opened this game up, and this game is very flat. If you look at the play field, it's very flat, and next to it we have got the Ninja Turtles. That's very high. Very vertical. Do you know what I mean when I say high? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, from the wood on the play field and the ramps is really high. I love that stuff. More verticality. Verticality, yeah. If you look at Jaws Pro, it's so flat. It's so flat, the pro version. This is like that. It's really flat. It has got a verticality ramp on the left side there at the disco ball. But for me, I have played the LE for many years. I love this game. I think this is one of George Gomez's best games ever. I love it. It's fun. It's campy. The humor. The music. The whole audio package. The graphics, everything.
    29:35
    It's my son. Everything is so cool. But when I played the pro version of this game, you didn't mention this, Donnie. Yeah. So one of the modes, you have to fight with the juggernaut. Yes. Fight the juggernaut. Do you know what to do when you fight him? I usually fight Mystique because I like shooting the spinner. Juggernaut, you hit the stand-up targets, right? Left and right? Yes. On the LE version, you have the drop-down targets, four on each side where you ride the Deadpool. pool but those stand-up targets when you hit them you will get that side to side action and the ball it really irritates me yeah whereas like the drop targets you can sweep them you know when you hit them they absorb so many impacts then your ball kind of returns to you instead of just like bouncing straight up yeah i mean i love drop targets i love drop targets i mean they should be on all games man so the stand-up targets irritates me that they're missing the disco I know it's just a ball there to the left, but all the lights are dim, and this disco ball gets lit up, and you'll get this Saturday night FIBA action there. It's so good. The music is good, and the animation, you have got the sexy lady dancing in the... It's just missing one more thing, and that diverter flap ramp assembly mechanism thing makes no sense to me. if it locked balls or something or if a ball would lock in there and then fire back or something it just puts it back to the katana, I don't get it you feel it when you play both versions then you feel that it will give safely back to your right flipper, then you can do that shot loopable, but yeah I mean, for me it's the drop down targets, but in today's market, this game is from, is it from 2018 I think. Sounds about right. Today, it's like if you want to buy the LE, it's – does it still hold up? Do they still – will they cost $13,000 today? No way. No way, right? I'm going to check real quick. But you can buy the premium LE – I'm sorry. You can buy the pro and premium today, and the premium is $10,000, right? So, I would say if you want to buy a brand new one, should you pay $7,000 or $10,000? What is happening with Deadpool LE prices? $18,000, $19,000, $14,000 or best offer, $12,499 pending? Deadpool is a great game. Listen to me. It's a great game. It's a fun game. The code is so simple. Now, the code on this game, you start a mode and you need to hit three places, and only those three inserts are lit up. It's so simple. Everybody understands it. Everybody's having fun with it. My son started playing this game when he was like eight, and he understood everything. It's so simple. It's so fun. Wow. I saw 8,500, 9,000 for a premium. Yeah. So, I don't know. This game is doing a lot better than Venom is.
    32:55
    Do you know why? I'm telling you. This is one of Gomez's best layouts. And I love George Gomez. And I love his games. This is – if you want to buy a brand new one today, if I should recommend you, go for the premium. Absolutely. What do you say? Maybe if I powder-coated that little diverter ramp, I would like it more. on the le the one we're playing on it's perfectly powder-coated dark red it those rams look so sexy on the le oh i love the le go for the le look at my unboxing videos all right yeah next game i want you to start with this one it's black knight source of rage give me your money this game i I didn't – so I liked this game when I first got to it, although I was terrible at it. And then I kind of wrote it off like this is an older game. It's too brutal. There's not much to it. And then as I got better at pinball, all of a sudden I started to appreciate this game a whole heck of a lot more, especially once I realized like, dude, Steve Ritchie, that's Shao Kahn from Mortal Kombat. He's just like yelling at me the whole time I'm playing, and I love that. And then, of course, the pro was everywhere with this one. and the limited editions come from a time where there weren't a ton of them. But I did come across some premium and LEs on location that I got to play, and it was like a different game with, like, this dirty plexiglass covering a third of the play field. I get what they were going for, but, like, I couldn't even see the pop bumpers. This is where – this looks like they designed the pro, and then we're like, we've got to put something in there for the premium LE because there's no way they designed this with the pop bumpers to be underneath dirty plexiglass. That doesn't make any sense to me. And so this is the game that I am firmly in the camp that the pro was the one to get, absolutely. I got a pro. I took that plastic apron, threw it away, and I put in a metal one, and then I powder-coated everything, and it's like black. I've got the topper on there, of course. I've got the metal hooked-on pinball mod for the pop bumper caps. They look like gold and treasure and skulls, and they have little lights in them, and then they're metal, and they go right on there and the light shines through the skull's eyes. Perfect, man.
    35:13
    Hey, Donnie, you know on the topper it has got this fire plate. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Does the Pro have the same at the back of the play field? Yeah, but I think there's more different colored lights on the other ones or something. Somebody sold an upgrade that put some blues in there too.
    35:33
    And can we just say like that castle backdrop on the topper, that's what I want to see in Metallica's topper. Or like something in the back like that where like everything's on fire, brother.
    35:43
    I love it. Donnie, I have an unboxing video of the limited edition. And this game is from 2019 as I remember. That upper play field, it's so dirty you cannot see through. Our game is just gray. You cannot see through it. That's most of the ones that I see are like that. Yeah. And you know what? There's not much. You can loop the ball up there and you can lock the ball up there. And that's freaking it. There's an extra multi-ball. When we unboxed it and you could see through, it was okay. But right now, go for the pro. Oh, my God. Get the pro. You can get that short ramp on the left side. Have you seen that? Yes, if you want to be a cheater. I played with it. Yeah. How does it feel? I haven't tried that. It's okay. I mean, it looks cool. I get what it does and everything. But for me, I like the ball going to the other flipper. I just leave mine alone. Okay. And I like weird add-on stuff. I mean, look at the saw blade I put on X-Men last night. Totally weird. It's just so cool. Love it. Love that mod. More danger in the danger room. But, yeah, for some reason, I just felt a little safe. I don't know, man. I didn't like it as much on this. But I love, like, the Jerry ramp. I love the other ramps that the dude made for James Bond. um you know the guy that made the jaws eating ball also right i think so yeah yeah uh yeah cam loops british columbia uh his name will come to be interactive pinball interactive pinball that's it man yeah i'm so bad at names sorry sorry but we can agree on this one pro the pro yes absolutely and the pro prizes are what you bought yours for about five right yeah 5500 and that was before they were being remade and then they're going to do another run of the pros actually too.
    37:36
    I'm going to look it up real quick. $5,500 for a pro. It's an awesome... You have to like fast games. You have to like Steve Ritchie taunting you. You have to like medieval.
    37:51
    I'm going to get medieval on your ass. You have to like stuff like that. It's a great game. And you know what?
    37:57
    It has got King's Ransom and it has got Omas to Black Knight 2000. I love it. Those are fun. The extra modes, yeah, that you can play from the jump. It's so good. It has got alternative audio package if you don't like.
    38:13
    All right, here's one. $5,300 or best offer for Black Knight Sword of Rage. And it's got speaker lights. If it hasn't played like 13,000 games, then buy it. I mean, it's a great game. Mine has 25,000 game plays on there, and the play field looks immaculate. I don't know what it is about how this one was built.
    38:30
    I couldn't believe it. Very, very cool game. I like that game. Get the Pro. We agree on that. Yeah, and get some better speakers for it.
    38:38
    Oh, yeah, that's a muscle. Love the audio package. You know what? People don't agree with me, but I really like the animations of that game. I love the knights when they lock the ball with the swords and armor and everything. I like it. Like the Hydra looks a little low resolution for what you would expect nowadays, but I don't know. It's fine. It's okay, man. Yeah. So, next game on the list is... Sandworm.
    39:09
    Get the pro. Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park, baby. Yeah. So, I have unboxed and filmed Pro, Premium, and the Illy.
    39:18
    I want to start with this one. Yeah. First of all, the Illy, the armor, green, dark green with glitter in it, it looks astonishing. Dot com. It looks so good. Astonishing. I mean, it looks almost as good as Deadpool's armor with the red and gold color. Almost that good. Okay. I love that. Other than that, the shaking, ball-eating dino head was cool the first 10 times. After that, I deactivated it because it breaks down. Okay. and I had no reason to have my premium at home. So I changed it. I unboxed a pro version. And I played the heck out of the pro version. And my bro has the LE version.
    40:14
    Both great games. I'm tired of it. I will never own this game again, not even for free, no thanks. But out of location, I would say private at your home or on location, get the pro. You have the whole game with the Pro. Those ram shots, they're all there on the Pro. I'm missing the chopper. The chopper. Those swinging things on the chopper. Yeah. But other than that, have you tried the different versions? Yeah, I've played all three and the 30th Anniversary Edition. Oh, sorry. And I can say four versions. Yeah. Well, it's essentially the same as the Elite. Man, everybody was pissed when that happened. And the brown powder-coated armor sucks on that version too. and the art's not as good? Like, what a downgrade. Anyway.
    41:01
    Was that an LE? Yeah. So they were making an LE after that, right? Yeah, that's the one where they were like, okay, fine, we won't do this again, you know, until they do Metallica, which I consider a new game. But so the things that I like about the premium LE, you know, the Raptor pen is kind of cool where that physical ball lock thing is back there. Again, that's not like making the game, you know, or anything. and I do like the spinning chopper blades. Yeah. Just having the plastic there is kind of stupid, but I mean that's not even, I don't even know if you'd call that a mechanism. It's just kind of like a spinner. It has a cool effect. Put a spinner in there, though. You could put a spinner in there. But yeah, the T-Rex is cool, but maintenance is a concern. It does tie up the game a bit. It's not compelling enough for me to recommend it. It breaks down. There's not like an extra play area. There's not like extra ramps. If there was an extra ramp, I'd be in for premium LE. But you get all the ramps, all the shots, all the gameplay, all the smart missile bull crap that I don't understand in the Pro. So just get that one. Yeah. Go with the Pro 100%. Yeah. Cool. Next game. Oh, we don't have a Pro on this, but it's Elvira's House of Horror. Yeah, there's like four different versions to choose from. 16 different versions. Donnie, which one? Which? We have got the…
    42:23
    All right. So there's a premium, there's a limited edition, there's a 40th anniversary edition, there's a signature edition, and there's a Blood Red Kiss edition. I think the armor is purple. Is that the LE? The 40th anniversary edition is the purple with the blood dripping down. No, because we got this when it came out, you know, back in. Maybe that was the LE. I think that was an LE and a signature edition. The signature edition had the piece of the couch in it. No, that was dumb. I mean. That was so stupid. It had a piece of couch or something, and it cost, I don't even remember, but back then it was a lot of money. Stupid money, yeah. I don't remember how much. I know the 40-fender. We didn't get that one, but we got the one under. I love that game. I really like Elvira. It's a fun game. Just like kind of simple layout, you know, just a fan, right, a couple of plastic ramps. It seems like there's not much to it, But there's a lot in that code that makes that game so much fun. Yeah. That house, that flap, you can shoot behind. It has got, I don't know, it has got this cozy mood, cozy horror mood. It's hard to explain on a podcast show. The crypt is fun to play with. It just works. Yeah. It works. And the whole time you're building up to the Yo Gabba Gabba mode, Gappa Angry. It's so fun, man. And then, you know, you got Elvira there the whole time. I had the premium version, and I had the Blood Red Kiss. It's the only game I've had twice so far. Well, except for X-Men, I guess. Welcome to the club.
    44:05
    It's like that. You sell a game, and then you just miss it and just get it back again. But this game, just buy the cheapest version you can get. All versions are good. And be happy with it. Yeah, yeah. Right? Prices are reasonable now for them. This game was very expensive like a year ago, and then Stern did reproduce them again and again and again. Like they had one for $20,000, and like a year later, they had the same game better looking for $13,000 or something. So, yeah, they just screwed somebody over, but it is what it is, guys. It's a great game. Just get the cheapest version. I think it must be the premium version, right? It's a premium. I think they recently made some too. So they're out there. You can still get a new in box one somewhere. How much can I get a 40th anniversary for now? $14,889 right now. Was that for 20 or 22 or 25? They were saying like 25 or whatever you can get for it. Yeah, it was 25. How much do we say? 18 now? 14. 14.8. 14? There's one for 15 or best offer, one new in box for 16. That's $11,000 under a year, man. Yeah, I think if I get this game again, I'll probably try to find one of these 40th anniversary ones just so I can have had all of them.
    45:29
    Tony, $11,000, man. Yeah. It's a cool game. The 40th still looks great, too, but the Blood Red Kiss, man, that was great. It came out for $13,000 and looked better. It was the best-looking version out of all of them, I think.
    45:41
    Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I don't like black and white, but that blood red kiss was beautiful. Great. Next game on the list. Oh, this one is hard for me because this one is Stranger Things. Oh, yeah. Oh, this is a clear, easy choice, open and shut. Don't even need to discuss it.
    46:02
    So let me start with this one. This is going to be a very short one for me because my bro unboxed this game, and I wasn't there. So I visited him the day after I was like where is this game And he was like it's out on location Why I haven't played it Yeah you won't like it And I said but the theme is awesome Yeah you won't like it Alright then I came home And I saw Kerry Hardy made a video about it And he destroyed this game And after that I just Lost all interest in this game So I don't know You have this game Yes. You can talk about it. Should people get the Pro or Premium Elite? Premium, for sure. Premium, 100%. Why? Yes, Premium. Oh, my God. What is missing on the Pro? What can you not live without? Soul. Personality. It's not there.
    46:58
    The Pro's fine. The modes are there. You get the videos and things, the video clips from the show, the call-outs and all that. The gameplay field is essentially the same. But the Pro has those magnetic locks. Okay. No, it didn't have that. And honestly, it doesn't add a whole ton. It's cool when it works. It makes the shot a little harder. I get all the criticism for it. But the projector, man. The projector is so awesome. Does it work? Does it look good? Oh, it looks fantastic. I replaced the stock material with this higher contrast stuff. And, yeah, dude, it's amazing. So the first time I saw this game it was a premium It was on location It was at Canobie Lake Park in New Hampshire I walked up and I was just getting into pinball I was like oh cool there a Hobbit I want to go play that. Oh, Stranger Things, I've heard about this. And I walked up there. I didn't know about the projector. And I'm looking at the spinner with this projected, swirly, little Twilight Zone portal thing on it. And I'm like, my God, what the hell is going on here? There's projection mapping in a pinball machine. This is incredible. And I've been obsessed with it since then. And then, of course, right, the game became good. It didn't sell very well, so there weren't that many of them. So these things were trading for, like, super high prices. I saw one for, like, $17,000, man, for a premium. I saw one for $14,000, and I was seriously considering it about a year before I bought this one for MSRP. So I'm glad I waited that one, man. So when you replaced those white thingies, did the color black show as black? Because now it's gray. Yeah, yeah. So the material is actually a dark black to begin with. It's a dark star, they call it. And if you wanted to get a full screen of it, it's like $30,000 or something. But you can purchase samples of the material for like $20. So I bought a couple of samples and cut them out and put them in. Yeah, man, that's how you do it.
    48:54
    And so basically it makes it look good even in a room with light. You can still see like a lot of that. It's very highly reflective. That's a must-have mod. Okay, so go with the premium or LE on Stranger Things. And put an amplifier in there and better speakers, and the thing just kicks, man. You've got to come play it at my house. Love the music of Stranger Things. Yeah. All right, guys. Next game. Ooh, another Keith Elwin. I love Keith Elwin games. Avengers Infinity Quest. I would say don't buy either one of them, but go ahead. Dude This game Avengers It doesn't have the best reputation It's often for sale And the prices are not That high on those games We have the pro version Look at the shots on layout of that game I think it's one of It's really good Best shots on I mean it it's one of his best shots on layout. A lot of creative stuff in there. I love shooting that. I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea what I'm doing. No, no. I know that when it says this sound, you have to hit that Hulk spinner at the left side. That's cool. But other than that, static pictures on the LCD display, and music is a bit boring, and it is what it is. But I like shooting the pro. My bro says that he played the LE And he says It's so much better Than the pro I haven't tried it so I don't know Have you tried all these Yeah you know last year I was on location In Arizona and there was a Avengers Infinity Quest LE on location And I just like I was having a moment Just touching the yellow armor And I was like how much are these I think I kind of want to have one for a little bit You get that extra ramp that's like It does this vertical 180 like an old Hot Wheels set or something. Really cool. You know, it's fun. It also has this ball lock under the play field. I don't like it. Every time I put a ball down there, it just stops three times and then goes to a vuck. It slows everything down. I have no idea what it's supposed to be doing. It also has Dr. Strange spinner that goes up. Yeah, that's how you access that underneath thing. I don't know that that really adds a ton. And you get the sculpted Thanos gauntlet in the back right, which I could 3D print one of those in two hours and 24 minutes. So – Okay. My post says that the Ellie is much better. I don't know. I like the pro. I think it's a – I think for me, shots and layout is so important. Shots and layout and then the music. Do I get in the groove? Do I get in the mood? I mean, when we play Predator and we start a new game and it says, da-da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. And you're going to hit some targets and it's going to stick around and all that. It's so important. On this game, people don't understand the code. I mean, yeah. So look at this layout and Elvira's layout. There's definitely more in Avengers' layout for sure. But the code and the music and the theme all come together with the animations and the recorded skits from Elvira to make that game amazing. And this one is just missing all those other categories. It's got a layout that's really fun and not like anything else, but then everything else just kind of isn't there with it. Yeah. And again, comic.
    52:33
    Do you read comics? No. I remember when we were kids, when I fucked those beautiful teenage girls, Girls, there were some geeks down at the corner that read those comics, but I don't know where they are today in life. But other than that, I know no one that reads stuff like that. It's just make the movies.
    52:59
    I want Thor. I want Iron Man. I want all that stuff. I know it will be very expensive. Yeah, and that's why it wasn't done.
    53:08
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean, man. Yeah, absolutely. And those animations do something more. I'm not a display guy, but you know what I mean. It's just one picture, that's it.
    53:21
    All right. I like the Pro, so you are saying get the what? Don't buy any of them, but if you are, get the Pro.
    53:29
    Don't buy any of them. Okay. That's our Avengers recommendation. Next game. I unboxed this game. Okay. I think I was the first one in the world that unboxed this game. great theme. It's a Star Wars Mandalorian. I unboxed the Ellie. I filmed the Ellie.
    53:50
    Such a letdown. And years later, like a couple of months ago, I played it for the second time and it was such a letdown. Second time. And that's it. I don't like this game. Mandalorian. Now that you brought up Mandalorian, I changed my mind. go ahead and get an Avengers Infinity Quest.
    54:18
    What a dog of a game, man. Honey, honey, where is my money? So imagine, okay, so if you took Avengers Layout and put it in Mandalorian with like the Mandalorian scenes and like that theme, you'd have something. And I don't want Carl Weathers' call out. He's so, and it doesn't work on Mandalorian. I mean, come on. What's with the dangling thing underneath the razor crest? So, Jenkins, I don't know if you have giant pickup trucks in Denver. I know you don't. But here in the United States, it's customary to take your pickup truck and get some chrome testicles and hang them underneath the back, and we call them truck nuts. Why? Just so when you're driving down the street, people can look at your shiny chrome testicles hanging underneath your truck, right? It's a thing. All right. Go look up truck nuts. It's like the most American thing ever. So whenever I'm playing Mandalorian And I hit that shot It's like I'm hitting the truck nuts Nut shot It's just nothing but nut shot A spinner would have been so much more appropriate How about Yoda He's just static Yoda With that knack Yeah it doesn't grab the ball Doesn't throw the ball at you Doesn't move unless you buy the upgraded one That somebody had to make Yeah he should have spun around or something Air blow up his skirt I don't know put something there years back I made a show with Chris from Canada's pinball podcast and he said that it felt like the designer, what's the designer's name? That's Brian Eddy, man. Brian Eddy, yeah. So Chris said that Brian Eddy was just walking around with a lot of pinball parts, rams, and then he trickled and he fell down and all those pinball parts, they landed on the middle of the playfield because he's right, everything is on, all the shots are on the middle. And it's just blah. You know?
    56:10
    I mean, what's going on, Donnie? Yeah, I know. He wasn't having a good day when he put this thing together. Yeah. So my recommendation, do not, and I repeat, do not buy this game. I don't care about the price. If you want to buy it, buy the Ellie. We have got, it has 25 plays on it maximum.
    56:30
    Other than that, y'all. All right. Next game on the list, we're going to disagree on this one. Because when Stern released this game a couple of years back, they jumped in price from the LE. I think we paid like $9,000 for the Mandalorian LE. But when this game came, it came with a camera. So it cost $10,500. It was Godzilla, for crying out loud. $10,500 for the LE. We got it. I unboxed the first one in the world, filmed it. loved the LE I loved the LE but like a month or something later we got a couple of pros home and I filmed unboxing the pros and I put it next to the LE and I filmed them and I played them, played them, played them I liked them both few months later the code got better when I unboxed it the code was good but few months into the production of this game I started playing the pro I'm telling you have no issue with the magnet on that Mechazilla no issue with the building our building is like should it be a millimeter up a millimeter down it just doesn't compute that issue upon issue upon issue you have nothing like that on the Pro when you destroy the building and the building moves you cannot just double click and just come on already. Move, move, move. You don't have all of that. It slows everything down. For me, on this game, and I can talk about this for an hour, on this game, Pro is the perfect game. Pro, I love the Pro. Get Godzilla Pro. Come on, disagree with me, Donnie. Your turn, buddy. Yeah, this is one of the most value-packed Pros that you can find. I came back, I owned a premium Godzilla, and then I went out and came back to the Pro and played it, and I'm like, there's still a ton of the gameplay in here. It does play faster. There's parts of the Pro that I like better than the Premium even. The speed. Yeah, yeah. Now, the Premium is also one of the best Premiums as far as what you get in it. This is what I was talking about with Deadpool. With Godzilla Premium, you get the bridge that breaks. You get the magnetic ball grab on Becca Godzilla's belly. You get the building that acts as its own diverter. Like, it's incredible what's in there. Oh, that diverter in the building is amazing. Yeah, but you still get the ramps. You know, if the Pro was missing a ramp or something, then yeah. But no, like, it's all in there. And you also have the magnet on the Pro that magnets the upper left flipper. These are two, like, sister games, I think. You know, like, they're both good. You know, if you have time at home and you want the full experience, of course, premiums are where to go. But you're not losing anything. The Pro is just a different version of it. It doesn't feel like a stripped-down version. Faster version. Now, the thing is, I'm going to – a bit controversial here is if Stern is listening, I don't know.
    59:46
    We just got the 70th edition black and white. And for me, for me, Donnie, I filmed it on the X-Men video.
    59:56
    It just doesn't work for me with Godzilla. Are you talking about the Godzilla Pink Red Kiss Edition? Yes, exactly. It looks so boring. Look. I mean, between the flippers, you have no inserts. Like, nothing is lit. So you have got this huge Godzilla down there, no inserts. It's just all gray. Everything is just gray and no lights. And your eyes are down at the flippers for the most time, right? It's so boring. uninspiring so if stern is listening make make a 71th edition 70 pro yeah make a pro okay give me some armor give me that breaking bridge bridge make a bro make a pro give us the bridge normal colors just keep the art keep everything but just make you know some some finesse you know a bit armor just that just a bridge okay just make that i will buy that game i will order day one it was it could be so cool because year back they they pumped tron version 2 tron version 3 tron version blah blah tron version with the ladies on the back glass and now when people want to sell it they're like undocumented but this tron was open four years after the first release it's just a mess when people won't when when collectors want to sell these games blah blah but if they make a new pro and i and people want and i have it for two years i want to sell it then i can say this is the 71st edition with that dangling bridge and it's so cool make it but keep the colors do not make it black and white, and I will order the first pro. So, Stern, if you're listening, come on, make the pro. I mean, pros right now are all like $6,500 on Pinside. $6,000 used? Yeah, $6,000. Check this out. If you want to get a Mandalorian LE, one of them just sold for $7,500. LE? LE! Oh my God! Who bought that game? Omaha, Nebraska. Here's another one, $7,950 for Mandalorian LE. Wow Brother Here's an LE with the $2,000 topper For $9,000 The topper is cool Donnie The topper is cool $2,000 a game What a mismatch So Godzilla Amazing games guys I love this game And Donnie is right Value packed pro man You get so much value no matter what you buy The LE was like $16,000, $18,000 game. But after the black and white boring version came out, then the LE flushed down on value. I'm going to check. I'm curious.
    63:07
    So, after Godzilla, we got another game. Now I have unboxed a couple of these. Only in pro version. It's Rush.
    63:18
    Okay. I played Rush. I don't know the music. Don't know about the theme. know nothing. I actually thought it was a lady that was singing.
    63:30
    I don't know. That's Geddy Lee, the best, best player ever. But I'm telling you guys, shots on layout,
    63:39
    one of Borg's best layout ever. Wow! This game is so fun to shoot. Again, I don't know what's going on. I don't want to listen to the audio package, but so fun to shoot. So I'll Yeah that lady That lady yeah That lady Stop it The greatest Trevor ever Absolutely It's fun to shoot It's so fun to shoot And I gotta have the extra wire for him I gotta have the moving bridge up and down I gotta have the premium with this What is the Rush Premium even going for now This is just going to be me on pin side.
    64:25
    Check out Rush LE. What do they go for? I had a Rush LE. I sold it for $12,000 with a topper, yeah. What, $11,000? Did you say that? I think $12,000 or something with a topper. They're going for $10,600. $9,999. Home use only. Rush LE. Wooddale, Illinois. Go get it today. Here's another one. Also in Illinois. $9,900 or best offer. Rush LE. I mean we're talking about with expression lights it hurts to listen to these numbers man it just hurts I mean people are losing so much money in so short period of time I mean they don't even wear up these games thousands and thousands of dollars this LE 330 plays it's nothing 9,900. Go get this instead of Mandalorian, for real. And this is a great-looking LE. I like the foil art on it. It's got that steampunk look to it. The back glass is great. This one even has the expression lights and lit speaker lights. Man, come on. Yeah. I'm going to go buy this. It's 100 miles away. I'm going to go get it today.
    65:40
    7,000. Yeah. So, yeah, I only have experience with the Pro, and I like shooting this game. If you like the music... Oh, my God. This one has one of my mods on it, too. What? What mod? Let me hear. The first pinball mod I made was a drumstick holder for Rush, similar to some other ones that were out there. And so I just, I tried it. I created my own one. And then I sold, I don't know, 10 of them. And this one has one of them on there. That's awesome. Cool, man. All right. So, yeah, after Rush, we got a theme that I love and people don't understand it, but 007, James Bond. I love those movies. It has to be Sean Connery. It has to be from the 60s. This game with the swinging dildo, with the GB5, with the Bond women, with everything, it should just be the pro. all day long, the Pro. And this game, when it came out, it wasn't $8,000 for an LE. It wasn't $10,500. It was $13,000!
    66:55
    What in the world, man? And what did you get? What did you get? You got a bond on a wand. The game already comes with one wand. Why do you need another one?
    67:05
    You get this little dragon car something, something. A little Matchbox Hot Wheels car, and then you got yourself the shortest wire form that's ever been made in pinball.
    67:19
    But you know what, Donnie? Now, when it came out, it only had... But now, when you play this game in all those small niche modes,
    67:33
    every time Sean Connery made something really cool in the movie, It had some cool songs playing in the background that just got you in that action mood. And all those audio clips are in the game. So if you watch these old movies and you play this game in these different modes and you listen to those songs. No, not that one, but all the other music. There are like 10 different, 10, 15 different songs in there. I don't know, clips or something. They're included now. Now, this game, because of the license holders, they couldn't really release stuff that fast. But right now, I'm telling you, go in and check out what they go for. check out Jimmy's Bond 007 LE prices because this game gained so much popularity. I saw Bond LE selling for $7,500 the other couple weeks ago.
    68:37
    No. No way, Donnie. I think somebody's getting divorced or something. Yeah. What? Let me look. Now, everybody knows this is probably my favorite game of all time.
    68:51
    But, yeah, I know pro is the way to go on this one. But I don't like the orange color. No. Yellow. It's yellow. The yellow whatever. $9,800. $8,800. For an LE James Bond? For an LE James Bond. $8,400. Man. Wow. Go pick one of these up, dude. Well, that tells. Okay. Although the pro is the one to get. You could probably get an LE for the same price. but that tells that the pro is the way to go because you don't really get that much not much no no i'm born on the one yeah pros are like five thousand eight hundred differences like thousand dollars then get the le why not and why not yeah you're gonna get well do it for the invisiglass and the shaker motor that comes with it basically also the armor it's colored Yeah, and the whole thing's not yellow, so that's good.
    69:45
    Yeah, on top of that. And then they came out with Jack Danger's Foo Fighters. Yeah, cool game. I had it. I unboxed the Pro. I haven't played the Premier League. I unboxed the Pro, and I played it, and I played it, and I played it, and I got hooked. Shots on layout for the first. Shots on layout. so cool. Different. That kicker at the upper right side, I love it. It's so cool. And I can see on the Premium Elite, we have got the upper playfield. It's okay. But it has got a very, very cool bash toy. I really like that. So, I love the Pro. Have you played Pro and Premium Elite? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. All three versions. What would you recommend? This is interesting for me. So I think there's some added fun with that upper play field on the left. It's tucked out of the way so it's not really blocking anything.
    70:45
    It's fun to loop the shot through there. And then there is a little bonus diverter that pops up exposing a stand-up target back there for another bonus when you hit the ball. Because you can loop through the spinner or you can loop around the Area 51 area. And then with the diverter missing, it can go up and then trigger that bonus. So that's fun for me. You can play up there longer than you can play up there on the upper play field for Jaws. So I like that added functionality. You know, the 3D sculpted guy for the bash toy and the magnets and stuff, like that's fun. I dig that. What was the other thing that was in there? Oh, my God. Dude bro the best part the best part that dead post the dead post that pops up and lets you save your ball as it careening down the out lane which I like to do Every time I saved a ball it was so much fun
    71:35
    You also get the car. It's sculpted. Which one? The boss on the left side. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. So, yeah, go premium on this one, man. Yeah. Do you know what? Some people don't like upper play fields. but I must say on this game, I only watch the videos, if you don't flip that upper flipper, you just use that upper play field as extension of your wire front. It just goes right around. The ball just loops around. So cleverly done. Same thing is done on jaws. I think every upper play field should be like this. If you don't flip, then just let it move. Don't stop the movement. Upper playfields like that, I like them. Power to the player. Underplayfields are junk on all games. Never make underplayfields. But upper playfields like this, it's cool, man. I like it. So this game, it wasn't, I don't know what happened. I defended this game forever, but it just tanked in value. What happened, Donnie? What does the A-list go for today? Oh, let me check. So people played this game, and then they were like, okay, I've done everything there is to do with it. Now let's see what's next. I think a lot of people bought this game, and so then a lot of people turned around and sold this game, and there was just a lot of them on the market. I don't think it's because the game was bad. You can get a premium for $8,000. $6,999 for a premium. Not bad. $7,500, $6,900, $5,000. $6,000? $6,000, yeah. Did you say $6,999 for a premium? For a premium, yeah. Wow. Talking about losing money, man. I don't think the LE offers anything really other than powder-coated armor, which do it yourself. Yeah, because these are going for $10. Yeah, $10 or $11. Oh, man. And these games, they cost $13. Now, these also come with the Expression Lights 2, so that may be more of a reason to get it.
    73:33
    The LE. But still, man, it's so sad when they – I mean, yeah. Also, looking at this list, I mean, some of the games that didn't sell well, like Turtles. They removed Turtles.
    73:46
    Turtles came. Two hours later, Avengers came. It just killed the Turtles. They didn't sell that much. We don't need to talk about Turtles.
    73:57
    You don't like it? It's just too hard of a game for me. Yeah, it's not fun. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, on this game, I love the Pro. I don't understand why the market or why the value is so low on Foo Fighters. $5,000 for the pro.
    74:15
    Dude, buy that. It's a great bang for your buck. Why doesn't people like Foo Fighters? I don't get it. No, I think people like it. I think they sold a ton and there's a lot out there. There's just a lot.
    74:33
    Okay. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. You know, it's not like there's five for sale and they're all $4,000. I mean, there's a ton for sale.
    74:42
    One for $5,000 is enough, you know. That tells us something. There's 12 pros right now listed on Pinside for sale. Wow. They're all competing with each other for, like, trying to be right around $5,800.
    74:56
    Wow. Yeah. I think it's a good game. It deserves better. So if you're a buyer, there's a lot of value in this game. I think it – I mean Shots on Layout Alone is so cool. All right. Let's jump to the next game that you just love, Venom. Oh, yes. Love me some Venom. The Pro isn't even a game. God, come on. Donnie, I unboxed Venom Pro. It wasn't assembled correctly. Put it back in the box.
    75:26
    I had some issues with it. But I played under 10 games the day I unboxed it, and I never touched it again. The Pro just didn't do it for me. Don't know.
    75:41
    Yeah, no. How do you feel about Venom? The Pro doesn't feel like a full game at all. The Premium barely does.
    75:47
    So take the Pro, put it back in the box, set it back up on the curb, forget you ever saw it. The Premium is genuinely a fun game, but I don't think you could strip it down any more than it already is. mechanistically there's not a lot in there that's very compelling but the game playing code and leveling up your characters and unlocking new ones makes that game once I started playing it, I mean I played it 500 times in my house here and I started to really like it after that point after about 200 games I was like okay I started to get it, I found the shots it was just a fun arcade comic book game, that's all it needed to be and I was enjoying it but the pro doesn't have You don't get spider cheeks. You don't get the changing play fields. That was the whole point of unlocking characters is the play field. The trailer said change the game. And the pro, what do you change? No, it said on the pro you change the rules. That's what they turned it.
    76:43
    No, the premium should have been the pro, and then the premium should have had more in it somewhere, something else. But it's a hell of a lot better than The Mandalorian. Oh, my God. You don't have to check the prices on this one because this game tanked in value. As soon as it came out, we could buy brand new inbox LEs for $9,000.
    77:11
    Just when it came out, people were like, get this, $9,000, $4,000 loss. Yeah. I'm checking. The Venom LE is a pretty looking game.
    77:22
    Yeah. Pretty? Yeah. No argument there, but... 8,900. I would much rather have this over Mandalorian for sure. I mean, don't buy Mandalorian. No, no, no. See, Venom is fun to play. Mandalorian is frustrating to play. That's the difference there.
    77:40
    Mandalorian. It has got one of the best themes, but yeah. Talking about destroying a game, man. Next game. I unboxed the pro version. This was a flat game. It was an okay game, but it didn't really... Yeah, Jaws. Jaws, man. What a fire game. I love this game. You're wrong. Yeah, people love this game. No one talks negative about Jaws. Game of the year, dude. The code has developed like crazy. I mean, Elvin's Coders. Oh, my God. That team is my favorite team. It's just... I don't know. Maybe I should try the Premium Elite. Because the Pro is just – you know what, Donnie? When you walk up to a pinball machine and you look at it, look at that play field, and you just get this – this is empty feeling. That just destroys it for me. And Joe's Pro is so flat. It's so empty. It's beautiful blue. It's just so empty for me. I don't know. And the theme, I'm not a fan of the theme. And the stand-up targets instead of the drop targets. Look, you've got to go play a premium LE. It's fantastic. No upper play feel. I mean, the big boat is missing up there. And, like, the moment when the shark pops in is, like, it's a compelling event when that happens. It's fun. It tells you something, you know, instantly rather than relying on looking at inserts or audio cues or something. Yeah, this game has to. You've got to get the premium, man. The orca up there in the corner. Everybody talks positively about this game. So I would say if you want to buy this game, premium LE. 100%. Don't get the Pro Premium Elite. And I'm hoping it's a game like Godzilla where it's just in production forever, you know.
    79:29
    It's an Elwin game. We could see Iron Maiden, his first game, it's still in production. It's still in production. I mean, yeah. Elwin, he knows what he's doing, man. This game needs a Blood Red edition.
    79:43
    It's Jaws. Come on. It will come. Yeah. Next game. This game, Donnie has the limited edition. It's a game that I like. John Wick. Yeah. I have played the limited edition only. Nice. But the Pro looks like it's a lot of pinball machine for your money. It's about the same amount of pinball machine, actually.
    80:13
    I mean, it's missing that opening thing at the right side, opening thing on the left side. but it doesn't really interact with the ball. So looking at the videos, it feels like go with the pro. I like the movies. I enjoyed the Illy's artwork. I don't understand why we have the blind guy on one of the sides. But other than that, what a cool game. It's a game like Venom where I think the premium LE should have been kind of the pro layout and they should have put even more into it. But, you know, there's a lot of little moving doodads on the Premium LE that you don't get. The Pro is more static, you know, but gameplay-wise, hardly there. But what is there is interesting, though. Like the pop-up target, it's a single pop-up target, but it acts as a diverter, which is kind of fun. I like physically locking the balls. You know, when the lady's like, ball one locked, and it's just coming back to your flipper, it's like, why are you lying to me, game? It's not locked. It didn't lock anywhere. You know, so it's a simple little mechanism that's back there, kind of like, this is like Iron Maiden. Although Iron Maiden's got a better layout.
    81:24
    I think, I don't know, poor Wick. Poor Wick. I like the premium on this just for the extra little diverters and things because it's too static on the Pro for me. This game tanked in value as soon as it came out.
    81:38
    Immediately. Do you think that, you know, like other certain games, the code will be so good that it will cost $20,000 next year? Do you think that will happen ever for John Wick? No. No? No. Who's coding this game? Why are people so angry at the code, man? Yeah, Wason and Eisenman and Tim Paxton. Tim Paxton? No, Tim Sexton. Tim Paxton was in Twister. No, that was Bill Paxton. He coded with Steve Ritchie, I remember, when he made Black Knight. Tim Sexton is coding it. Yeah, and I just talked to him about some of my things I'd like to see added to the game. Particularly, like, there's a scoring or a leveling system where as you play, you get wick points and you level up. And I'm like, oh, cool. I'm like, level 40, when's the code? What the use of that? That's what I asked him. I'm like, can I exchange this for shark teeth and jaws? Like, what's going on? And he's like, oh, that was just a fun way to kind of see how many times you've played. There's really nothing to it. And I'm like, no, that's not what I want to hear, man. I want some kind of reward. Open up a store, a progressive jackpot, something. What am I going to do with all these WIC points? Get guns or something. I'm going to retire. Can I use them for, like, Taco Bell credit? What the hell, man? Can I get a – Maybe it's a future something something. I want to cash in my WIC points for, like, a Stern T-shirt or something on a store online. So I'm going to keep hammering them to get that to happen. I will say, it looks like John Wick's, the cheapest ones listed for $9,999, $9,500, $10,500. So at around $10,000, you could probably move one of these games right now. They don't move. They sit for $10,000. That's it, Donnie. I'm so sorry. I know you have the LE, but they're sitting for $10,000. Look at it. Good thing I like playing it because I wouldn't get much if I sold it. It is what it is, my friend. It's just when I look at distros, they still have them. You can order a brand new one today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't like this when they cost $8,000 from new, I'm telling you. Yeah, so the thing Wix got going for it, though, is it's got a cool vibe. Like when you're playing, the music's getting better, the modes are getting better. It's a cool theme, man. It's a cool theme, yeah. It's awesome. So I don't think it's going to be as bad off as some of the turds, like Mandalorian Turtles or some other – Venom. Poor Venom.
    84:06
    Yeah, poor Venom. Yeah, this isn't Jaws, man. Oh, Jaws is better. All right, let's jump over to the next game. I'm loving this game. This game gets a lot of bash because of the code, but the shots on layout on Kenny X-Men. Yeah, I'm warming up to this game now, man. I only have experience with the limited edition of this game. What a beautiful looking game. What a fun shooting game. I love the audio package. I actually like what's going on on the display. I don't love it, but I like it.
    84:48
    Shot and layout, it's better than Godzilla. a lot of air balls but I love it but to be honest with this game get the pro so yeah I mean it's like it's kind of like Jaws right you have the sentinel head that pops up it like tells you that you're entering a different mode of the game that's fun but does it is it crucial no yeah what else do you get tickling finger is it crucial no actually the last 10 games I've played I don't think the finger's gone off. So I think something in the last code update nerfed the finger where I'm not getting fingered as much. I want more Sentinel finger. You got fingered. Yeah. How about the crashing ramp? Is it a must-have? No, people hate that, man.
    85:33
    I lost two balls on that ramp. I know when to anticipate it and how to react now that I've played the game a couple hundred times. So, like, I enjoy it. You know, it's fun. Like, okay, it's faster back to my flipper, and then we keep going. but if you're just playing casually, you're going to drain balls on there, and it's going to seem unfair. Who's coding this game? Why is people so angry about the code?
    85:56
    I don't know who's coding this game. Oh, Wason. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, Wason. Tim Sexton's coding John Wick. Wason's coding this one. That's correct. Yeah, so we'll see where the code – I think we're going to anticipate a lot more with code and with modes and fun things to do with this game than I'm expecting with John Wick based on my conversations. Which I wish that wasn't the case X-Men has got the shots on layout going on So X-Men is starting pretty good And so it's only going to get better Jaws started pretty great And is getting better Other games like James Bond Stranger Things started terrible And then finally got there These games are already starting pretty good So I think this is going to be a killer app to have for sure You know what game started Really cool on the code? Godzilla I remember when I played like version .71 or something. It was so good already there.
    86:53
    Yeah, okay. On this game, I would say 100% GoPro. You are getting so much bang for your buck on the Pro. And this show is all about bang for your buck. Yeah, this is the most value-loaded Pro I think they've ever made. The magnets are on there. The modes are on there. The wire form's reliable. They're not going to break on you. You're not going to get fingered. Yeah. You get the whole danger room. There's no missing flipper, no missing plate fields.
    87:21
    Everything's there. The full Sentinel head's there. I thought on the Pro they would have made the Sentinel just a plastic with a stand-up target. But it's the same sculpt. It just doesn't have the mechanism to move up and down. Yeah, and the mouth that shoots the ball back, I thought that would be missing on the Pro. The magnet could be missing on the Pro, but it's all there. You don't have that. Don't tell them. Don't give them any ideas. No, no, no. I'm sorry.
    87:50
    Oh, my God. Okay, and the last game on this list is an old game that got remastered. We're going to talk about remastered just in a minute about other games. But Metallica, it's so sad they didn't make no pros. I understand why they didn't make pros. because the pro you have, have you played Metallica Pro? You have the whole game. Yeah, yeah. It's a great game. That's almost exclusively what I've played. I finally got to play in LE, and I was like, you know, I do kind of like the spinner, but, you know, it's not like, you know, the snake wasn't there. I get the hammer. Hammer's cool, but, yeah, we're a master. Hammer, it just takes too much space on an important area. But you have got the snake. You have got the ramps. You have got the in-line drop-down targets that I love. You have got the magnet. You have got everything. You got the best music in pinball too.
    88:42
    What? You got the best music in pinball. Amazing music. I mean, this remastering, I love it. They should just make the Pro and I would order it.
    88:55
    Because the premium, I have to pay $3,000 more. Oh, yeah. Plus that, so $4,500 more. Tell you what. Go get an original Metallica Pro. They're like five grand now.
    89:11
    They're unsellable today. I mean, yeah, we have seen the original owners. They are angry about this. But it is what it is. Somebody was selling on Facebook a Metallica. I think it was a premium, one of the original ones. And I typed in there. I was like, oh, is this the new remastered one just to be a jerk? But then I erased it because that would just be mean. I mean, that game was the Ellie on the old, old DMD version. They could cost $17,000, $18,000 if you look at the history on Pinside. But now, who wants to pay $18,000 for that game? Nobody. It looks so old, so boring, so dated. And when this game came out, the original one like 12, 11, 12 years ago, it didn't have color changing LEDs no nothing it just had bulbs Metallica Master of Puppets LE 10,600 oh my god 8,000 laws in a month BAM next game that's going to be remastered what do you think what game will be remastered next realistically probably something stupid like Tron but Ghostbusters is what everybody wants well Lord of the Rings is what everybody wants I have a question about Ghostbusters. Now, would it make sense to remaster it? Heck yeah. Yeah. But how – you need to – when you meet George, when you meet somebody from Stern, ask them, how do they feel about touching a game that this bullshit of a designer designed? I feel like Stern doesn't want to do anything with that idiot. That's how I feel. Have you heard anything else? No, I don't think that would stop him, though. Seriously, I mean it. What if you had Elwynn come in and create an extra ball path or something, and then say it's Elwynn's remastered, and then you don't even mention that guy? Dude, another designer doesn't touch another designer. They have this proud stuff. They don't touch. Look, look, look, look, look, look. Metallica just got released. Who was talking about it? Who was presenting this game? Who was hyping it up? The designer! Who did we see on the trailer, everything? John Bork was all over the place. Yes, but who did the remastered code? Because Lyman's not around to do the code, so Ray Day came in to do that. Okay. Right? So the original designer for Ghostbusters is not available, and so one of the other guys could step in. Boom, there you go. I don't know. I really want to hear from Stern how they feel about it. Will they touch this idiot's design, or will they just? I really want to hear this. So if you meet them, just ask them from me, man. Hey, Genghis is asking. As we know, Stern isn't money-motivated of a company, right? Yeah but still I don't know That would be a great game to remake Just put it in a center post Call it a new remastered version But you know what They ruined that game You know why Because it was a drain monster For years it was a drain monster And then they hired What's his name Dwight Sullivan to remaster the code, and he put in four minutes of ball save. Constant ball save for four minutes. He ruined that game completely. Like, that game, I loved it before the newest code, and now it's just, it's a mess. New idea, new idea. Here's how you do it. All right, remember a game called Batman 66, right? 66. There was a lot of bits of Batman Dark Knight that ended up in Batman 66, right? Oh, yeah. But that was the same designer. Yeah, all right. But let's say you revisit the Ghostbusters license. You lift some of the themes from it, you know, maybe a Slimer that moves around, the hologram in there, subway ramp. But come up with a new layout that's tighter, not a drain monster, doesn't have the Magnaflip bullshit.
    93:45
    I think you could have something there. Yeah. I think forget about remastering just make a brand new Ghostbusters that's what I'm talking about like inspired by the other ones the things that we liked about that game and then more and then remaster it and then there's no connection to the old guy all those buildings you have the New York on top of pop-bombers oh my god setting the mood I love it and on the ground tunnel shot and oh that game is so cool I love that game We got this thing workshopping now. Let's do it.
    94:19
    They need to, oh, the armor of the LE, all that green, all that slime. I love it, man. I love it. Donnie, what a great show. Let's jump over to behind the scenes now and talk, you and I, Freestyle 2.0 and to people that want to support us on Patreon. Give your game fuel with the official Metallica remastered pinball accessories It's so tiny A topper will fit in your pocket I'll use this for the outro music Thank you everybody for joining us on We Are Pinball The podcast, the people The community Head over to Patreon because we're going to go behind the door for the after show Which kicks off right now As soon as this Metallica trailer ends Yeah write to us at we are pinball 69 gmail.com don't forget the 69 brother