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The Super Awesome Pinball Show - S01 E18

The Super Awesome Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 47m·analyzed·Oct 29, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Super Awesome Pinball Show Halloween episode with Spooky Pinball's Charlie Emery discussing production, Rick and Morty code updates, and industry dynamics.

Summary

Christopher Franchi and Christian Lyne host a Halloween episode of the Super Awesome Pinball Show featuring Charlie Emery from Spooky Pinball. The hosts discuss their recent pinball projects (working on Captain Fantastic EM restoration, waiting for GNR LE delivery, renting Jurassic Park), reveal details about an unreleased art package project, and interview Charlie about Spooky's production timeline, code updates for Rick and Morty, and post-launch support strategy.

Key Claims

  • Spooky Pinball expanded production roughly 60% to catch up on Rick and Morty orders after COVID shutdown

    high confidence · Charlie Emery stated: 'we kind of bounced back from a couple months shutdown due to COVID...expanded production quite a bit, like almost 60% to get caught up'

  • Rick and Morty will be finished ahead of the promised 18-month schedule, expected early 2021

    high confidence · Charlie: 'Rick and Morty games within 18 months...should be done actually a little bit ahead of schedule. So early 2021'

  • Supply chain issues during 2020 included unavailable HDMI cables, plastic for displays, and printed pieces due to home office demand and banking needs

    high confidence · Charlie: 'plastic was all going to banks and people were setting up home offices and then suddenly you can't find HDMI cables'

  • Christopher Franchi has an unreleased art package (cabinet and backglass) from post-Stern work that he considers his best cabinet artwork ever created

    high confidence · Franchi: 'I did the whole thing and personally my opinion is that it's the best art package I've ever done...cabinet wise I think it's the best cabinet and back glass I've ever done'

  • The unreleased art package is NOT Theater of Magic, contradicting rumors attributed to 'Kaneda'

    high confidence · Franchi: 'I know Kaneda said that it was possibly theater magic. It's not. So he's wrong. There's the official statement.'

  • A CGC Games machine reveal is coming 'soon', possibly by end of 2020, but cannot be specified whether it's a remake or original

    medium confidence · Franchi: 'You are going to see one soon...possibly by the end of the year?...Yeah, yeah, yeah.' Cannot divulge specifics due to NDAs.

  • Spooky Pinball uses pre-order/per-order build model where customer payments fund parts acquisition

    high confidence · Charlie: 'we're basically a per-person, per-order build. When you place an order with us, we lock it in. We're using that money to buy the parts'

Notable Quotes

  • “As brutal as that game is, you should have it on five anyway. I think that's going to make you enjoy it a lot more.”

    Christian Lyne @ ~8:00 — Advice on Captain Fantastic difficulty/enjoyment modification, shows community knowledge-sharing about classic games

  • “We're the last people on earth that want to disappoint you or have you say, I changed my mind. Guns N' Roses is out now, and it's a beautiful game, which it is.”

    Charlie Emery @ ~42:00 — Explains Spooky's business model constraints and relationship to market competition; key insight into company philosophy

  • “I think the build quality has been very, very good on Rick and Morty. I think the code just keeps getting ridiculously better and better.”

    Christian Lyne @ ~45:00 — Positive community reception of Rick and Morty quality despite long production timeline

  • “They were like, what do you mean we're not done yet? You know, because we're constantly adding more to it, and every single little item has to be approved.”

    Charlie Emery @ ~51:00 — Reveals licensing complexity and approval delays from Warner Brothers/Cartoon Network on Rick and Morty content

  • “I'm going to rent that for a month and maybe more for a couple hundred bucks. He's going to drop it off. He's going to set it up...As soon as I'm ready to get rid of it, he comes down and picks it up.”

    Christian Lyne @ ~39:00 — Example of emerging rental service market for pinball machines, addresses lower-commitment alternative to ownership

  • “It's just a flat, chunky thing, and it's like, oh, man, that's not, you know, come on.”

    Christian Lyne @ ~33:00 — Commentary on misleading online product listings and e-commerce fraud, tangent but shows frustration with quality expectations vs reality

  • “You know, the way the pinball marketplace is these days is it seems like your game has about a three-month window where people are really excited, then it just kind of falls away.”

    Christopher Franchi — Industry observation about short hype cycles and manufacturer challenge of maintaining relevance between releases

Entities

Christopher FranchipersonCharlie EmerypersonChristian Lyne (Dr. Toon)personSpooky PinballcompanyRick and Morty PinballgameCaptain FantasticgameGNR LE (Guns N' Roses Limited Edition)gameJurassic Park Pinballgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball's per-order build model creates production inflexibility but ensures customer commitment; requires long wait times (18 months) but maintains quality and financial stability

    high · Charlie: 'we're basically a per-person, per-order build. When you place an order with us, we lock it in. We're using that money to buy the parts' and 'we go quiet for a year to 18 months'

  • ?

    community_signal: Multi-podcast industry roundtable events (Slam Tilt Cluster Buck) bringing together content creators, industry figures, and professionals for discussion of technical and business topics; informal off-record conversations noted as particularly valuable

    high · Discussion of third/fourth Slam Tilt Cluster Buck event with podcast hosts, designers, and industry figures; note that post-recording conversation 'was almost better than the actual show part'

  • ?

    community_signal: Designer ownership and long-term commitment to post-launch code development exemplified by Scott Denisey's ongoing TNA updates; culture of continuous improvement rather than abandonment

    high · Charlie: 'Scott, that's his baby. He still absolutely loves what he did in TNA...TNA 2.0 is going to happen'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Unconfirmed speculation about CGC Games reveal being either Cactus Canyon or Theater of Magic; Franchi explicitly denies Theater of Magic rumor attributed to 'Kaneda'

    medium · Franchi: 'Some people are saying that that might be it...I know Kaneda said that it was possibly theater magic. It's not. So he's wrong.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Rick and Morty approval process from Warner Brothers/Cartoon Network creating delays in code content release; multiple modes allegedly 'secretly' in game waiting for final IP approvals

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.502

0:00
All day, all night, all pinball right here on GWPY All Twippy Radio. Sometimes we're funny, sometimes we're proud.
0:18
Stick around after the show for a contest with valuable prizes. And by the way, it's an ad-hoc radio production.
0:36
It's the Super Blossom Pinball Show. That's right. It's time for your favorite pinball show. With your favorite host, pinball artist, Christopher Branchi. And Dr. Toon and So, Christian Lyne.
0:52
Thank you. coin-taker.com. Also by backgalleycreations.com, makers of the most amazing pinball mods, black pearl pinballs, and the easy slide playfield support system. That's backgalleycreations.com.
1:37
Happy Halloween, all you pinball rock stars out there, and welcome to episode number 18 of the Super Awesome Pinball Show. My name is Christopher Franchi, and on today's show, we have an interview with pinball streaming sensation Jack Danger. We also try to convince It's our super special co-host, Charlie Emery of Spooky Pinball, to share his Playfield clear coat secrets with all the other pinball manufacturers. Also, more details on next year's super awesome pinball tailgate bash. All the latest news and rumors, plus our last few weeks in pinball. All this and more along with my stunning co-host, Dr. Pin, Christian Line. Are you ready for this one, buddy? Yeah, I'm ready. It is going to be an awesome episode. We have so much good stuff to get into, so let's jump into it now. And before we bring on our amazing co-host that is perfect for this episode, we're going to talk about our last two weeks of pinball. So you want to start us off and tell us what you've been up to? Our last two weeks of pinball. I have two words for you, sir. Crapped and fart-tastic.

Rick and Morty code has multiple modes 'perhaps even secretly' waiting for final approvals from Warner Brothers/Cartoon Network

medium confidence · Charlie: 'most of them are in there perhaps even secretly, and while we wait for final approvals to unlock all that stuff'

  • Charlie Emery did voice acting for an undisclosed character in Rick and Morty pinball that is 'definitely spooky'

    high confidence · Charlie: 'I actually got one mode in the game that I really wanted to work on, and got to do a little voice acting, and I won't even tell you which character I am'

  • Scott Denisey continues to update TNA with post-launch code improvements similar to George Lucas revising Star Wars

    high confidence · Christian: 'he treats TNA like George Lucas treats Star Wars' / Charlie: 'Scott wants everybody to be completely happy...TNA 2.0 is going to happen'

    • @ ~44:00

  • “Scott, that's his baby. He still absolutely loves what he did in TNA, and it was an original theme that people kind of embraced.”

    Charlie Emery @ ~56:00 — Recognition of Scott Denisey's long-term commitment to TNA code and designer ownership mentality

  • “I can't say what it is. I can't even say whether it's a remake or an original game. I'm just going to say that you're going to see one soon.”

    Christopher Franchi @ ~36:00 — NDA-constrained hint about upcoming CGC Games reveal; confirms project in development

  • “If you have a job and a pinball machine is a tool for it, it's just you have to know what to look for.”

    Christian Lyne @ ~18:00 — Philosophy on DIY pinball restoration and specialized tools, reflects learning curve in machine maintenance

    • CGC Games (Chicago Gaming Company)
    company
    Scott Deniseyperson
    TNA Pinballgame
    Eric (Spooky code programmer)person
    Bowen (Spooky code programmer)person
    Jack Dangerperson
    Slam Tilt Cluster Buckevent
    Bruce Nightingaleperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Warner Brotherscompany
    Cartoon Networkcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany

    high · Charlie: 'every single little item has to be approved' and 'most of them are in there perhaps even secretly, and while we wait for final approvals to unlock all that stuff'

  • $

    market_signal: Emergence of pinball machine rental services in residential market, offering low-commitment trial access at ~$200/month with delivery/setup included

    medium · Christian Lyne renting Jurassic Park for 'a couple hundred bucks' with delivery, setup, and pickup services included

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Christopher Franchi has transitioned from Stern Pinball employment to freelance art/design work, currently shopping unreleased IP package to multiple manufacturers

    high · Franchi: 'This is from my time after Stern' and details shopping package to CGC and unnamed 'other company' with mixed licensing response

  • ?

    product_strategy: Post-purchase audio upgrades for GNR LE topper including Bose soundbar system (alternative to included speaker) and dedicated subwoofer for enhanced sound reproduction

    medium · Christian purchasing Bose soundbar and subwoofer separately to enhance bundled topper speaker system; custom rose decorations being added by Mrs. Penn

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Industry observation that pinball games experience short 3-month hype windows followed by declining attention; manufacturers face challenge of maintaining brand relevance between 18-month development cycles

    high · Franchi: 'it seems like your game has about a three-month window where people are really excited, then it just kind of falls away'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: COVID-19 pandemic disrupted pinball parts supply in 2020, creating scarcity of HDMI cables, plastic components, and printed materials due to competing demand from banking/home office sectors

    high · Charlie Emery: 'We've run into supply issues of every type and size, things that you just normally don't worry about having in stock, like HDMI cables and plastic for your displays...plastic was all going to banks and people were setting up home offices'

    • 2:38
    I've been working on my Captain Fantastic. I discovered that the match isn't working. I haven't worked on a pinball machine in a long time, and I'm ripping this apart. I took the glass off and went under the play field and I adjusted the balls. That was another thing, too. It's like, if this thing's going to be such a fucking piece of shit, doom, drain game, I'm going to bump it up to five balls and fuck it. I don't care. It was on five balls when I played it as a kid, so it'll bring me right home with all the nostalgia. Fuck the three-ball game. As brutal as that game is, you should have it on five anyway. I think that's going to make you enjoy it a lot more. Yeah, I'm not going to brag about any scores. Or if I do, I'll put an asterisk and put five-ball game or whatever. Right. If I do get something good. But, yeah, so I adjusted that. And I'm trying to figure out how to get the match to work. It's not working. And I don't really have much experience. I have no experience in working with an EM. I'm impressed, man, that you're even going to attempt a fix on an EM. Because lifting the play field on a solid state versus an EM is a totally different ball of wax. I mean, there is so much shit going on under that play field. Yeah, it looks like those machines on the original Frankenstein movie, you know, all the lightning shooting back and forth between the metal balls and the crazy shit. Yeah, and it's filthy, too. Like, I had this thing shopped when I bought it, and they didn't even vacuum down in there. There's dust, like gray dust all over everything. And I figured out how to change the, you know, the three-ball to five-ball. It's so strange. There's like this, like, piece of wood with two prongs in it. You have to lift it up and move it over to the other side, and there's these two holes, and you put the two prongs into the two holes and push it down in. It's like a light bright.
    4:14
    How the fuck did you figure this out, Clay? I watched a video on somebody doing something to a Gottlieb, and it was very similar. It wasn't a ball change, and it wasn't a bally, but it was the same looking mechanics. So I'm like, well, this has got to be it. You know, it's a three ball to five ball. You know what freaks me out about EMs, man, is that not only are they complicated as balls to figure out what the hell is going on down there, but you're also like 100% more likely to get electrocuted when you're fucking around down there. Obviously, the machine needs to be turned off. But even if you turn off the machine, you're not totally safe, according to my my ping guru, Jim. And even if you unplug the machine, you're not entirely safe. Because there's like, I guess there's some sort of electricity reservoir down there that if you know, within a few minutes of unplugging the game, you could still get fried. So just be careful down there. You don't need it, you know, to frivolator. Yeah. No, I'm trying to be careful. This guy's the guy who was just trying to take light bulbs out with pliers. You idiot. You do. Reaching the hole, man, in the backboard. One of the bulbs was burnt out, and I didn't know it until I changed it to five ball, and ball number four, the light wouldn't come on. But the lights are in, like, these tunnels. I don't know why. I took the back glass off, and I'm like, well, I can't get my fingers in there. So I had to get pliers, and then I tried to put these little rubber tips on. Then it wouldn't fit. I couldn't get it between the bulb and the hole that it's buried in. They do have bulb grabbers, but they're not super small. I mean, I'm sure they make all different kinds of them, but the bulb grabber that I have is kind of bulky. And then there's a fuse grabber as well, but I don't know. There's all sorts of shit out there. If you have a job and a pinball machine is a tool for it, it's just you have to know what to look for. Yeah, and I have to have it too. I mean, that's the kind of problems when you don't have it and you're trying to work on it. It's like I'll order it and I'll let it all sit here. No, I'm not that guy. I'll find a way. So, yeah, I was able to do it. Didn't smash any bulbs, but it didn't fix the problem, though. I put like four different bulbs in and it didn't come on, so it's something else. It's the news, buddy. It's the news. Well, it's just the one bulb, though. Each bulb doesn't have a fuse, so it's got to be something with the wiring or whatever. I don't know, but I can't figure out how to set up the match because it has ten bulbs going across the top, five on each side, but either the bulbs don't work, every single one of the bulbs don't work, or the feature is shut off, or the feature is broke. Because they do have settings for that for the operators. They're like, don't put a match on there, because heaven forbid, you might give something free away. Yeah. All I can think of is that we are the anti-slam tilt. We're two total idiots talking about shit that we have no idea how to fix. I know. It's pretty funny, actually. We need to start the dipshit pinball contest. I know in my stars, there's a board in the back box where there's little switches. And you, I mean, you would never have any idea what any of these switches do unless you look in your manual. But, you know, if you push a switch up or down, that sets it to five ball or three ball. It changes, you know, the special from points to an extra ball, that sort of thing. So there are sometimes intuitive ways to do it as long as you open your manual. Do you have a manual for that one? Yeah, I do. And like an idiot dickhead, I didn't even think to open it. I'm just trying to figure it out. Start there, man. Start there. Although, you know, YouTube can sometimes help you out faster than a manual because you don't always know what you're looking for in there. Those, you know, schematics are kind of like chicken scratch to the non-educated electrician. The good news is that my electricity teacher from high school is on my Facebook. He's still alive. You've got to clear him, man. He's like the all-knowing pinball swami. You can get him over there. It's funny. as much as I like hanging out with him and all that, I don't like having him over because he doesn't want to take money from me. And it's like a 20-minute ride just to get here, and then a lot of times he's using parts out of his truck. And, you know, like I've got to try and shove the money in his pocket, and it's getting a little fresh.
    8:07
    That's dicey. What you could do is just send him like an Amazon gift card because it's really hard to just give that back. That's true. I never think of the obvious. I always forget about the modern conveniences and things like that. But anyway, so yeah, trying to work on that. And I believe I'm going to be revealing a brand new unused art package for a property that nobody knows about. Really?
    8:32
    Interesting. That's cool. Is this from your time at Stern or another era? No, it's from my time after Stern. Very similar to the Wonder Woman and Superman. It was like, you know, putting a proposal together. But I was so into this proposal that I did everything. you know it wasn't just like the trans light and like the side of the kid and I did the whole thing and personally my opinion is that it's the best art package I've ever done wow it's hard to say because there's no play field that's right I forgot to let that out I didn't do a play field but cabinet wise I think it's the best cabinet and back glass I've ever done is this something I know about yes uh your most recent package that you did yes okay you're gonna reveal that so that's a no-go. Yeah, yeah. Oh, fuck. I can say why after I show it. I can't say why now. Right. So anyway, so look for that in the coming week or so. That should be posted. Unless I get a call at the last minute and the brakes get put on it, it actually is going to happen, but we'll see. You know, as much as people are going to throw stones at me for saying this, is there any point in saving that stuff? Just, you know, for a future gig that, you know, they're like, well, maybe, Let's say you start working for CGC more aggressively, just to throw them that package and say, are you interested? Or have you already vetted this out to everyone? Yes. I took it to CGC and I took it to some other people, let's just say.
    9:53
    And it wasn't that there wasn't any interest. There was just like CGC is just who wanted to do it in five years, they might consider it. The other company sounded very excited, saw the artwork, and said, yeah, we're going to call in and we're going to follow up on the license for this. And it's been radio silence for a month. So I'm just assuming that's all. I sent out a text and got no response. So I was like, okay, well, I guess that one's dead. But I'm still waiting because I just sent the text out today. It basically said, I need to know now or I'm taking it off the table. So we'll find out. We're talking too long about something that people can't see just yet. Right, right, right. I just wanted to give you a heads up. There might be something very fun. There probably is going to be something very fun coming in the next, maybe even by the time this podcast comes out. So let me throw this at you because we kind of talked about CGC a little bit there. And people have been on a bunch of other podcasts talking about what the heck is going on with CGC. And I know you can't break NDAs and that sort of thing, but are we going to see a CGC game soon? Like, is this going to happen? You are going to see one soon. Okay. I can't say what it is. I can't even say whether it's a remake or an original game. I'm just going to say that you're going to see one soon. All right. And there is a whole lot of fun on the horizon. Like possibly by the end of the year? What, this other stuff? No, the, you know, the CGC reveal. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. That's a nice nugget. I'm excited for that. There have been some rumors. Some people, and now obviously you know, but so you can't divulge. But from what I've heard, it's either going to be Cactus Canyon, which is the front runner, or Theater of Magic, which has just popped out of nowhere. Some people are saying that that might be it. So we'll see. But I'm excited for either of those. I am definitely at some point going to own theater, and my wife is crazy about Cactus. I'm going to say this much just so I can shoot it down because I know Kaneda said that it was possibly theater magic. It's not. So he's wrong.
    11:46
    There's the official statement. Well, kind of official. Third-party statement. But, yeah. All right. Nice. Yeah, there's that. And the other thing is something you and I can talk about because we both took part in it. We sat down with our old friends, Bruce Nightingale and Ron Hallett, for the second Slam Tilt Cluster Buck with a bunch of other friends. I think this is the third, man. I think this is the third or fourth even. No, I think it's the third. Yeah, it's gotten bigger and better every time. And, man, these guys are awesome. It took three times for them to invite me to them. Bunch of fuckers!
    12:19
    They're a blast, man. Sarah and I have done, I think we were involved in all three of them, but we were definitely involved in the last two. Yum, yum, yum. Wow. They're just a blast, man. It's cool to get together with all the different people from the pinball shows and the industry and just geek out about pinball and talk about current events. Who was on this call? You were on for the whole thing. I was only on for the first maybe two hours. It was all on. Let's see. Okay, so we had Ron and Bruce. We had the guys from Loser Kid. I'm terrible with names, so I'm just going to get screwed up in this. David Dennis? Yes. Dennis is from TPN. He's on Silver Ball Chronicles. And the Loser Kids are? Loser Kids. At the Loser Kids. and then their buddy Zach I don't know his last name but it's the Zach that's always there and let's see who else Dennis Creasel and the always overexposed Jeff Deolos came in oh no not you again we had of course Bruce and Ron and you guys and yeah Mrs. Penn was on as well so it was super fun it was a real good time and you know what I wish I would have hit record when we stopped recording the cluster bug because we had a conversation for an hour and a half after that was almost better than the actual show part yes this is off the record and no one you know everyone's gonna speak freely yeah exactly exactly it was very eye-opening and interesting and fun but uh anyway so we did that uh but that will that will segue right into uh your past few weeks yeah yeah yeah before we move on like they just you guys should definitely tune into that show it's gonna be awesome i don't know when it's gonna air but we covered you know clear code issues CPR re-themed stuff and talked about COVID and like its impact on pinball shows and public, you know, pinball locations and that sort of thing. So thank you guys very much for having us on. So what have you been up to? All right, man. So we have a GNR LE ordered. So we've been waiting for that. And obviously that is tough to do because it's such a fun game and I just want to have it now. But I know that people have to wait for new games when they buy them and it is what it is. But our fingers are crossed that that's coming sooner rather than later. You know, would you? I know, fuck. I want it now.
    14:27
    But the problem, man, with this weight is not that I can't do it. It's that I buy so much shit in anticipation of getting the game. So, you know, one of the coolest parts of the CE is the topper that has a built-in speaker system, you know, to amp up the volume and just blow you away when you're playing it. I saw a Facebook post by a guy named Lior Rajon. I'm probably totally annihilating that name, but he was talking about a Bose soundbar system that runs basically the same dimensions as a CE speaker. And I'm not an audiophile, so I don't really know much about it, but it's supposed to be even better than the one that comes with the CE model. So I picked that up, and that's in my basement. And then I was talking to Chris from Cointaker, and he mentioned that he had just bought a subwoofer for his game. So I bought that too.
    15:16
    And, you know, this game is going to freaking shake my house. and I'm probably going to need hearing aids in a few months, but I'm totally pumped to hook all this stuff up and check it out. It's going to be awesome. The Lady Penn sent me pictures of your inferior rose collections for your topper. That's right. Never spend a doctor to do a Mrs. Penn's job. No, no, I try to hang with her, but I can't. She's the crafty one in this relationship, hands down. And I don't want to spoil the topper because it's so epic. I just want to have it finished, and then we'll show it off. But one of the pieces of the topper are roses, right? You have to have roses. So I bought these fake roses online that looked cool. And when we got them, they are the cheapest, shittiest looking things I've ever seen. I immediately sent a text to you and to Eric Menier. And she basically called me out for not consulting her before I bought those. And, yeah, I fucked up. Yeah, it's one thing I've learned when it's something like that that's important. You have to go to the store and pick this stuff out. Because I've gotten ripped off somewhere. I bought these action figures online where they show this $350 action figure, like 12 inches tall with real cloth costumes on it. And then you get this six-inch plastic piece of shit in the mail from some company in China. And you're like, well, there goes that. Nothing I can do about that. I paid $40 for a $6 toy. Have you seen the prom dresses that they sell? I mean, this is a total tangent, but they show these beautiful prom dresses. Yeah, right. And then there's a whole website devoted to what people saw online to buy the prom dress and what it actually looked like when it showed up. And it's like this piece of shit Ziploc bag versus this cans. It's so bad. I just bought a phone case that looked like a molded version, like a three-dimensional molded version of the Batmobile from the TV show, like a top-down look at it. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. It's clunky. I probably wouldn't want to have it, you know, because it would just make it like you put it in your pocket and all this crap's poking out. And, you know, they have the dome windshields and all that stuff. Like, I don't want to make funny marks on my pants. And, you know, I figured, well, I'll just get it because it's cool, but I'll just go throw it in the Batman room, you know, with all the other Batman junk. And then come to find out, it's the way they took the picture, it's just a plastic case with a picture of the Batmobile printed on it. But the way they took it made it look like it was three-dimensional, and they did that on purpose. Oh, of course. So you get it. It's just this flat, chunky thing, and it's like, oh, man, that's not, you know, come on.
    17:43
    No. Oh, I was so pissed off. I'm tired of online ripoffs. But there's no way to return that stuff, right? Because you've already bought it. It's from China. No one's going to give you a refund. You're hosed. Yeah, that's just it. Yeah, they all have these American names when you go to buy it. American T-shirt hut. Oh, wow, great. And then as soon as you buy it, you get this thing on your phone that says, your PayPal's been charged $20 from...
    18:06
    I don't know what it is. It's Chinese. It's those weird shapes. Sorry if that sounded racist. That was horrible. That was so bad. I didn't know how else to say it. I couldn't hold it up. It's well taken. Yeah, your point is well taken. Yeah, so forgive me. I didn't mean to say it. I'm just screwed. Yeah, you are. But, you know, sometimes you've got to roll the dice. But anyway, so yeah, the topper's coming. It is looking so fucking cool. It's definitely on par with our Wonka topper. So when that actually finishes being created, which I'm guessing will be done within the next week or two, we'll post some pictures on our Facebook page. Yeah, man. So outside of that, there was something last night actually that happened. I was sitting in bed. I was a few gin and tonics in, and I was surfing Facebook, as I do, before I pass out at night. And I saw this post, and I don't know if I've ever talked about this on air. I know I've talked about it with you, but one of the things that I was super psyched to try and do is get a game rental service in the area so I could get a pinball machine in my house that I didn't necessarily have to buy. You know, I can enjoy it. I can play the shit out of it and kind of scratch that itch so that hopefully it was something that I could kind of get out of my system. I have a feeling that there are certain games that I'm always going to want to have eventually, but there are other games that I don't necessarily want to own, but I'd love to play for a month. So I've looked for a rental service in my area and I couldn't find any. But then last night on Facebook, there was a guy who said that he had a bunch of machines and he wanted to rent them out. And he's relatively local. So I looked over his list of games that he was offering and Jurassic Park was in there. And that is the one game I was dying to rent because I just want to get my hands on that in my house and play the shit out of it. So I love that game. I want to own it someday. So I reached out to him right away and I said, is this still available? And he said it is. So he's going to drop it off on Thursday. And I'm going to rent that for a month and maybe more for a couple hundred bucks. So it's a pretty sweet deal, man. He's going to drop it off. He's going to set it up. I mean, I can set it up, but he's going to do all the stuff that you don't really want to do. And as soon as I'm ready to get rid of it, he comes down and picks it up and takes it away. So pretty sweet gig. I'm excited for that. Yeah, man. Congrats on your new rental. Thank you. So that'll tie me over until GNR gets dropped off at my doorstep. Hopefully I'll have them both for a short time. Nice. Yeah, man. That wraps it up. All right. Well, it's time we should bring in our special co-host for this episode. Let's do it.
    20:27
    So it's our Halloween episode. We couldn't have asked for a better guest than the head of the only pinball company that loves all things creepy and spooky, Mr. Charlie Emery from Spooky Pinball. Welcome to the show, Charlie.
    20:43
    Thank you, gentlemen, for having me back. And yeah, man, this is our time of year. We're geeked up and excited, and yeah, I love Halloween. So, how have you guys been? I mean, how have you been since we last talked? It's been a couple of months. Doing really, really well. I mean, all things considered, with the insanity that is 2020, we kind of bounced back from a couple months shutdown due to COVID. You know, the state of Wisconsin kind of put us all on lockdown earlier this year, to be careful. And we abided by that fully. We've honestly expanded production quite a bit, like almost 60% to get caught up because, you know, I told everybody they would have their Rick and Morty games within 18 months and didn't want to disappoint anybody. So now the pressure of keeping that production line going kind of kicks in after Rick and Morty, which should be done actually a little bit ahead of schedule. So early 2021, then I guess we'll see what's next. That's phenomenal because you were about, you said 18 months to really make it. You're about 10 months in at this point, I think, if I'm doing my math right. So you're making it look like 14 months, 13, 14 months to get the whole thing done? It can never take a month or three, who knows. But it's completely unpredictable. We've run into supply issues of every type and size, things that you just normally don't worry about having in stock, like HDMI cables and plastic for your displays and printed pieces and things like that. For a while there, a lot of that stuff was unavailable because the plastic was all going to banks and people were setting up home offices and then suddenly you can't find HDMI cables. It's like, what the heck?
    22:25
    Exactly. Like everything else, we keep finding more sources and ways through it and just doing the best we can, man. But yeah, that's the goal. We want to finish actually a little bit early with production on this game and hopefully keep everybody happy. You talked about the 18 months that you have reserved for getting people their games and things, and we knew we were going to have you on. And I was thinking, you know, the way the pinball marketplace is these days is it seems like your game has about a three-month window where people are really excited, then it just kind of falls away and it turns into, what have you done for me lately? 100%, yeah. So my question is, in order to keep the brand, I don't want to say relevant because I don't want to say that if you're not out there with something new, you're irrelevant, but in order to keep it out there and keep it alive, what do you do as a company that is more or less, I don't want to say shut down, but as far as, you know, new product in the pinball world, you guys are off on your own for 18 months filling all your orders. So nothing is coming out. What do you do to keep your brand alive? Yeah, everything you just said is 100% accurate, man. Jesus, have you been in pinball before? It's not like you know what you're talking about. But, yeah, that attention span, it's a short window to kind of try to hit your shots and make everybody happy. You know, Spooky has always been a little bit different in that regard. We're kind of the odd duck in pinball, so to speak, and we're fine with that. And, boy, this can get weird in a hurry.
    23:55
    You know, we tell everybody when you buy a game from us, please be confident in your purchase because we're basically a per-person, per-order build. When you place an order with us, we lock it in. We're using that money to buy the parts to make all the games. And, you know, the fluctuation and the tastes in pinball can change very rapidly. So we're the last people on earth that, you know, want to disappoint you or have you say, I changed my mind. Guns N' Roses is out now, and it's a beautiful game, which it is. But, yeah, we're careful about that. We expect our customers to kind of be a little careful about that as well. So make that commitment if you want the game and, you know, just hang on with us. We'll get you through it. We'll get the games out the door. Yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, we can go quiet for a year to 18 months, and I don't honestly believe 18 months. We don't ever want to go past that. That's a long time for people to wait and be patient to get their games. I'm kind of shocked that people are being patient and waiting to get their games, but I think the build quality has been very, very good on Rick and Morty. I think the code just keeps getting ridiculously better and better. And we've got a couple other few surprises coming out here. You know, it's Halloween. We can't not do something spooky and cool and have a little fun with maybe some pass games. You'll see. Oh, cool. Well, you know, it kind of jumps into the code stuff that we wanted to ask you about, because Eric and Bowen, I'm sure, aren't just sitting on their hands doing nothing. How much of their time is still spent on Rick and Morty updates? and how much more is yet to come. I guess it's all kind of on that, right? As Eric would say, how much more is yet to come? Probably not as much as you'd like.
    25:36
    Eric's funny. His sense of humor and dry wit is pretty amazing. No, him and Bowen never, ever, ever stop working on Rick and Morty Code, and there is more coming. And I think we've kind of caught Cartoon Network and now Warner Brothers a bit off guard by how much actually goes into a pinball machine. because I completely understand that six months into this, they were like, what do you mean we're not done yet? You know, because we're constantly adding more to it, and every single little item has to be approved. I'm not 100% sure right now how many modes are active, but most of them are in there perhaps even secretly, and while we wait for final approvals to unlock all that stuff. But, yeah, it's been a wild ride, and I actually got one mode in the game that I really wanted to work on, and got to do a little voice acting, and I won't even tell you which character I am. Oh, cool.
    26:31
    But he's definitely spooky. I mean, do you guys have a set timeline on when you think that your work on Rick and Morty in terms of getting the assets, because it's not a property that you have complete creative control over and you do have to get the approval, so it's not overly easy. Like, do you know, say, at this point we feel like we've gotten everything into the game that we want? We're not at that point yet. and I mean if Eric had his way we'd be working on this thing for five years and it's terrible when we have to tell Eric he can't do something really cool that he wants to do because we just can't get all the assets or pay all the actors or whatever the case may be but yeah we actually do have some surprises coming out in that regard as well that are more professional than me for sure things coming along in that game but yeah it's not done yet let's just leave it at that I think everybody's going to be very very happy when they see the final product on this. Awesome. Speaking of code updates, we just saw another code update from Scott Denisey for TNA a few days ago, and his level of post-game support is incredible. Do you think he'll ever be done tweaking that game? He's kind of like, he treats TNA like George Lucas treats Star Wars. Right.
    27:40
    Oh, he's selling it to Disney? Okay. He's making it better. Like, future updates make it better, not worse. Yeah. Okay, that's good. No, man, Scott, that's his baby. He still absolutely loves what he did in TNA, and it was an original theme that people kind of embraced, and I think it's another situation where Scott wants everybody to be completely happy. And honestly, I mean, TNA 2.0 is going to happen. It's just a matter of when. So everything that Scott's working on is just more bang for the future as well. You know, it's just something else that we can add to the game that makes it that much better when it re-comes out again. And I'm not saying that's going to be soon because we're busy enough as it is. But at some point, yeah, TNA 2.0 will live, and we're excited about it. We've already kind of, we know what's going to be in it as far as physically and some little minor changes. We're not going to change it drastically, obviously, because we want all the games to play the same. But, yeah, I think, yeah, just for those people that still don't have one of those games and, you know, keep hitting us up about, when are you going to make more? It will happen. It will happen as soon as we can get to it. So when you say 10.0, you're not talking about code, you're talking about a new version of the game? Like physical? Yeah, we always said, I mean, the only reason we had to stop making TNA was we were behind on Alice Cooper and we needed to get that moving as well. But we always said from day one on that game that it's the one spooky game that really isn't limited. We're going to do more of those. And we meant that every week. I still get emails about, when are you going to run it again? I want one. When are you going to? So, yeah, we'll get there. Not only will people get this, but they also might get enhancements to the game, is what you're saying, both code and possibly otherwise. Yeah, there's going to be some cosmetic and physical things. Nothing, like I said, that will change the gameplay. We've never been a fan of that. You know, it doesn't matter if you have the first version or the second version. You're basically going to be playing the same game, but just little niceties, you know, things that you You grow and learn as a company and add them in later. This will be the first time we've ever really had an opportunity to kind of go back and improve on an original product. So, yeah, man, why would you not? Charlie, it's not every day that we get the head of a pinball company on our show, so we definitely want to pick your brain a little bit about your personal thought process on a few things that are out there in the ether, if that's cool with you. Yeah, sure. All right. So the first part is just every company has a little bit of a different approach to entry-level versions of the game and how to move from that to an upper-tier version. And you had just mentioned that Spooky, in general, wants to keep the gameplay the same amongst versions. But you definitely can buy add-ons with Spooky, and there are special editions like the Bloodsucker that enhance the game cosmetically. So why do you feel that's the best approach? And would you ever consider adding or removing playfield features or gameplay modes between models in the future? To answer that last question, absolutely not. Okay. I never want to do that. I don't want somebody to get our game and feel like, well, I wish I could have afforded the upper play field. I understand why other companies do it. It's just not the way I operate, man. I've been in pinball forever, and I sure would hate to drag home an old game that I was going to fix up and just make sure, God, I wish I would have found that medieval madness that had the extra three castles in it. You know, it's not my thing. I prefer to treat every customer, no matter what level of game that they want to drag home, the same. If you're going to get our entry-level game, you're going to get the same play experience as everybody else. Now, if you want to add, the Spooky Pinball Fan Club is... Oh, God, I probably shouldn't say what we're doing for 2021, but I'm so excited. You probably should say what you're doing for that. There's going to be a little bit of a tie-in commercially with our Spooky Pinball Fan Club that I'm super, super excited about. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get the Bloodsucker package where you get maybe a little bit different armor or speaker light up kits or if you want to go crazy and get that clear-coated butter cabinet, stuff like that. Yeah, that's great and it makes the person that wants that in their home, you know, feel good about their purchase and they've got something a little bit different and unique. That's cool, but at the same time, you know, everybody's playing the same game and that's the way I like it. I mean, Tuki is known as a very customer-friendly company and I'm sure you know that just because you, you know, you do things like try and give everybody the same experience and your customer support is always on point. People always talk about that. But another thing that comes up less frequently is that you tend to reward people who are going to go the extra mile and spend a little extra money like the fan club or the bloodsucker edition by producing the bloodsucker edition first. So other companies will start their base model first and then later on they'll get to the more expensive games. And people have said, Why am I paying more and getting the game later? You tend to make Bloodsuckers first. Why would someone not do that, I guess is my question. It seems intuitive. Yeah, again, I see all sides of it. I understand that if you're Stern and you're putting out the Pro Edition, I'm guaranteeing a lot of those are going on location. And your collector's games are going to the home market that are going, you know, people are going to be a lot more particular. So if you're going to have, and I'm not speaking for them by any stretch of the imagination, this is just what my brain thinks is logical. You know, the location games are going into the hands of operators who know exactly what they're doing. They're not going to be looking at the game probably as closely as the home collector edition games are. So I get that. But, yeah, for us, we've gone a long way with the operators, especially with Total Nuclear and Rick and Morty, as to understanding that we need to kind of cater to that side of it more as well. We didn't really have that early on. I mean, America's Most Haunted, there might have been two on location. Rob Zombie was a little bit more than that. And then, you know, Total Nuclear completely flipped that around. I'm betting half of those are on location. So it's all a learning curve. But, you know, I understand all sides of it. I understand why the bigger companies do exactly what they do. They have a bigger machine to feed than we do as far as personnel and keeping everybody happy. And, you know, it's tough at every level in pinball. I mean, ridiculously tough. And, you know, it's kind of common knowledge that pinball legs, we just had an issue with pinball legs. Now, all pinball legs have been stamped in the same factory since forever. Suddenly, one of those is out of spec, and it's like, you know, it's, okay, it's rubbing up against my detail. Well, how did this even happen? This isn't a part that anybody even thinks about. And suddenly, it's out of spec, and it's causing an issue for you. So, you know, I get it. I see all sides of it. I understand how hard manufacturing is. Sure didn't when I came into pinball, but you get it now after, you know, seven and a half to almost eight years.
    34:31
    Even little things that you don't even give any concern to because, well, it's just an off-the-shelf part that everybody uses, you know. Jersey Jack doesn't make a pinball leg. We don't make a pinball leg. CGC doesn't make a pinball leg. CERN doesn't make a pinball leg. You buy them, and all of a sudden, boom, little things like that can bite you. So, you know, it's a tough road to hoe no matter how you slice it. So everybody does things differently for a reason because it's kind of what they find to be their comfort zone and what they think is best. Well, the good news is that Deep Root has a trademark jet propulsion system that allows the game to hover if you're interested in licensing that property from them. I have zero comments. Well, you know, one thing that you guys do, as you call yourself the little guys that the big guys don't do, is you get your play fields right. Because it's a big hot potato going on right now with pooling and chipping and all of that. And at the same time, you've always been the good guy in pinball. So I would say, you know, as all of us pinball fans come together and one giant scream, much like in Horton Hears a Who, to yell through the horn and go, Charlie, please help these other guys figure this shit out so our games don't suck.
    35:53
    Have you got any information that you can pass on to these guys as to how they can figure it out so that we can all have nice pinball machines? Or do you want to be that guy that goes, It's your call. You're all right in my book either way. Please don't put any pressure on me here, Chris.
    36:15
    Number one, thank you for saying that. And we're not immune to play-to-it issues. We have had issues in the past, and you learn from it, and you figure out what happened. And for anybody that's, and you see it all the time, And every time something like this happens, and I know exactly what you're talking about right now, you see people online just speculating their asses off about, you know, oh, they're using cheap clear. Trust me, none of us are trying to save a nickel on this process because the consequences of having an issue and having people fired up and upset and demanding new play fields and everything else is far more expensive than just getting it right the first time. Pardon the intrusion, but at this moment in the interview, Charlie's wife, Katie, came in with a load of groceries and made a bit of noise. Please pardon the audio inconvenience. Thank you. Lunch is here. Everything we do is really proprietary as far as that process because it's ridiculously hard. I cannot tell you how much time and money we've put into this stuff over the years to get it to where it is the point we're at today. And as far as helping other companies do that kind of thing, they know where to find me. I'm not the kind of person who's going to turn their back on somebody if they ask for help, even if they are a competitor. I don't believe in that. My wife just dropped a, I don't know what that was on the floor. We think that might have been a body.
    37:43
    Just bringing in some groceries. Yeah, man, no, I mean, I'm always open to being of assistance if people think I can be, but it's not up to me to force them to come to me. Let me ask you this. And you don't have to answer if you don't want to, or you can answer however you wish. I know you don't make your own playfields in-house, or at least I don't believe you do. Does the supplier that makes your playfields supply them for any other company, or are you their only pinball client? Again, a bit of a sticky wicket. We have all the equipment in-house, and we can and have made our own playfields before. The company that you're referring to is a very, very close friend and partner of ours, and we've been doing business with them since day one. they have been a vendor for other companies in the past, and that that's kind of their prerogative as to what they choose to do. It's all the same process. Everything we do, they do. Everything they do, we do. And it really just depends. Like, right now, we're focused on manufacturing games, so do I want to sit there and make plate fills all day, every day? I mean, we don't really have the time. But as long as, you know, like I said, everything is identical between the two manufacturers, and their shop's only 15 minutes away from ours. So it's a very Midwest kind of group of people here that have worked to develop this over the years together. And we're super proud of it, man. So yeah, it's... Kind of as you had mentioned that there's a lot of armchair experts out there and everyone has their own idea as kind of what's going on with this. But one thing that people have said is that the problem is that the clear use today has much more regulation than the chemicals that were used in the past that made a stronger clear are no longer allowed. Do you have any insight into that? Are you willing to talk about that? Is that true? yeah I mean to some extent and there are again I worked in the screen printing industry for 20 plus years before we started a pinball company so a lot of experience there there's a lot of inks and things that you can't get today that we could 20 years ago like mirroring on back glasses they've had to completely reinvent how that's done because it all had mercury and all kinds of crazy stuff in it but as far as clear coats today I don't believe that it's so much like EPA regulation or anything that's keeping people from finding the right combination of special sauce to make this all work. Obviously what we're doing is pretty darn decent. But again, when you go back and look at those Williams play fields from the 90s, glitter was very, very thin on those boards back then. It was top of the nails but it was very, very thin. People today are, you want it more shiny, you want it thicker, clearer. I don't want to feel the inserts. It's just a whole different ball game as far as making a product that everybody's content with. And, I mean, I honestly don't believe our play fields are as shiny as everybody else's, but there's a reason for that. You kind of trade the toughness for, you know, the super, super bright and shiny stuff that's going to dimple like crazy and, you know, just little things like that. There's so much more to it than I can even begin to discuss. That was a great answer. It was more than I actually thought you'd be able to tell us, so thank you for telling me that. And I didn't spill anything I probably shouldn't have said. Super secret, got it. And sorry about my laughter. I was just thinking, like, I'm so glad we had him hush up his computer fan. This wife comes in.
    40:57
    Hey, Chris French, he's making fun of you on this podcast right now. What? In a loving way, in a loving way. When you're not releasing your own games, you're obviously a huge pinhead, and you're watching, you know, what everyone else is doing. So, like, how much of your attention is split between seeing how other companies are doing things from, like, a competition standpoint versus, you know, just geeking out and being an overall pinhead. Are you able to separate those two things? Yeah, absolutely. And I will lie, Eric, of course, from JGP, wonderful dude, great guy, very impressed with what he just did. You know, and I've said it before and I will say it again, I think it's great that guys like Eric and Keith Owen and Scott Denisey with us, these young guys are coming in and they're really building a name because that wasn't happening for a long time. like it was either you got Steve Ritchie or Pat Lawler or some of the old school guys that have been around forever who are still all great don get me wrong But there was nobody really kind of picking up that new guard status and it good to see that happening But yeah, man, I play Jurassic Park. I think it's amazing. I think everything Keith Elwin has done so far has been just, are you kidding me? He's great. Eric on his second game. I mean, Pirates was really, really fun. His brother's our service tech, so when Guns N' Roses came out, I saw it. Yeah, we honestly worked out a deal with his brother Chris, and we're getting a Guns N' Roses.
    42:17
    Yeah, I absolutely love the new Elvira game. I know that's kind of a mixed bag for some people, but if you're throwing teenagers from outer space and Manos and Night of the Living Dead and all that stuff in a game, and Greg Ferris has been a friend forever, I think the art is pretty amazing. I appreciate what everybody else does, and again, I know what it takes to make a game, and none of this is easy. Stern has a tendency to make it look easy, compared to the rest of us at times because they can crank out so many, but, you know, I'm still a fan. I love all this stuff, man. I've seen you transport competitors' games to shows, and, you know, you posted a really nice shout-out to Eric for JJP, and it's refreshing to see that, I mean, at least publicly. I don't know if other companies do that behind the scenes, but do you receive similar love from the other companies that you're dishing out? I mean, I know that's not really the point. Privately, some people from other companies will say, wow, that's really fun, and I played this, and it's great. you don't see it a lot publicly. It's a little bit different with, like, Chicago Gaming. Doug and I, I think, are a little bit of an anomaly here that, you know, him and I get along very well. It's out there in public knowledge that we're kind of working on something together with Ben Heck. And I love that we can have those kinds of relationships, you know, and I talk to a lot of people at all the pinball companies and proud to have those relationships. And I'd like to see more of that going forward in the future. it's an incredibly small pond as much as we all love pinball and like to think it's this big thing it's really not if you put all the pinball community together we basically make up one small town and we all know each other we all know what everybody's into and likes and does and it just should be more of a support group to me than a butting heads competition I find it all kind of pointless and yes we watch what everybody else does and sometimes we're like god dang it Why don't we think of that first? Let's touch on game reveals because we've seen some pinball reveals done right over the last year, including your awesome reveal of Rick and Morty. You guys did a really slow tease of that game that you kind of brought to phenomenal levels of hype before selling out really quickly after the big reveal. You've seen the Jersey Jack pinball GNR reveal recently, and Stern has kind of upped the game with Zach Sharp talking about doing a reveal with Turtles in New York City with Nickelodeon and just kind of bigger and better than they've ever done it before. How important do you think a game is revealed is to the eventual sales of the game? You're not wrong either. Everybody has kind of stepped it up, including us. I think that we were in that group of fine, complimentary things you just said.
    44:50
    I think JJP absolutely crushed it on their Guns N' Roses reveal. That was pretty darn impressive, to say the least. It's hugely important, man. And, you know, it's not 10 to 12 years ago where, you know, Gary Cern was saying, come on in, the water's cold. The water's very warm right now and everybody's in the same pool. So you've got to do what you can to kind of capitalize on those launch moments like Chris was talking about earlier. It's kind of like a three-month window of you can keep that hype moving a bit and it's always about what's next. And as soon as somebody else comes out with something, the attention shifts and that's what it is. So yeah, I mean, we're going to keep improving that as we go. I think we're doing a better job with that now. Bigger licenses obviously allow you more opportunities, and we've been very blessed, and there might be something cool coming up here with even the Rick and Morty camp that we haven't seen yet as far as kind of going that direction. But, yeah, man, it's becoming more and more important every year with every game, and, you know, as the competition gets steeper, everybody's got to do a better job with that. Plus, it expands it also at times into other realms where maybe pinball doesn't reach. I mean, we obviously know we're going to reach all the pinball fans, but companies like Starman and JJP, they're very clearly going after a much bigger audience at this stage, and that's good. Pinball needs that. Very true. Yeah, there's actually some news that we're going to go into a little bit later where they've kind of product-placed their stuff in completely unrelated, but similar demographics to the pinball scene, and it's impressive that they're trying to go really big. Well, since this is our Halloween episode, let's talk scary. People love horror-themed pins, and pinball is notoriously good for getting your heart racing with timed modes, high-energy music like TNA, call-outs. Do you think it's possible to create a pinball game that is truly scary? Absolutely, I do. It's a little bit more complicated because your attention span is being diverted so many different directions while you're playing. But, yeah, absolutely. Now, the trick there is how do you make it happen a second time? Right. once everybody's seen it, it's kind of over. But yeah, man, it's totally possible. I've seen people's reactions when they come to my house and they're not pinball people, and they see Thing come out of the back corner for the first time. I literally had a girl at one of our Halloween parties run away from the game. She thought somebody was under there, under the game and messing with her. Well, you know, speaking of spooky themes, it's come to my attention, and I'm going to pass this on to you. People are hungry for a spooky movie title, and they've not gotten one in a long time. And it seems that the one everybody wants is Halloween. The original Halloween. Now, admittedly, it's got the most awesome soundtrack, I think. The most iconic. So that's something I'm just passing that information along to you. Because you've come out with TNA, and then you've got Rick and Morty. Or let's just call it Rick and Marty for fun.
    47:46
    So we need to put the spooky back in the spooky pinball. Let's get a Halloween made. I do not disagree with everything you just said. I think there's several extremely classic horror licenses that we would be very interested in pursuing. And you're not wrong. You don't want to talk about those, do you? Because we were going to ask you, like, in a general sense, like, what you think the scariest pinball machine that was already made, you know, which one do you think it is? And what movies do you think, you know, are the scariest? Don't know if that's going to spoil your plans for... You know, it would be truly fascinating and a challenge to make a game that is just 100% scary. I mean, I think they kind of tried that with Freddy Krueger. Right. You know, obviously, Adam's family has humor. Everything Elvira does, Monster Bash, they took into a completely comedic area. Creature from the Black Lagoon went to the drive-in. So it really hasn't been attempted before, but I like the way Chris Franchi thinks. Well, you know, the way I think is the way to make pinball machines scary is effects. Using the lighting with the shaker motor. Absolutely. And keeping it dark at times, you know, where you, you know, you might be playing a game, blah, blah, blah. Oh, you just went into the haunted house. The whole, you know, play field goes dark, except for like two red lights down by the flipper, so you can at least see what you're hitting. But, you know, and then, you know, you shoot the ball up, and if it hits something, you might not be able to see what's going on, but then the shaker motor goes off. You know, there's things you can do, lightning flashes. And that mixed with the sound. I mean, if anything, Halloween taught us, John Carpenter's score for Halloween, the music is everything. You know, if you watch that movie with the volume down, it's like, you know, I mean, it looks pretty. Oh, absolutely. So if you get that mix right, the effects that you can put into the machine, lighting and with the shaker motor and the music, I think it can definitely easily be done. Well, even the scariest pinball machines, you know, or not the scariest, but like a very benign theme like the Flintstones, for instance, if it throws a hurry up at you, that can get your heart racing, right? It gives you some anxiety. Yeah. You couple that with a scary theme and, you know, that could be cool. And scary music. You know, the game I think that is pretty dead on serious to me that comes the closest to what Chris is talking about is probably Bram Stoker's Dracula. And I do love that game. It's not necessarily scary, but it does stay very serious. I don't think it's easy to scare people with a pinball machine, but, man, I do love the concept. And never say never. That's something that we've kind of kicked around before that we would like to do. And I don't know if it's Friday the 13th or Texas Chainsaw or Halloween or anything from that realm. I think there are ways you could do it. you also have to get past the fact that you're not really going to have a family mode in any of those. Because it's just more, although I guess it's become a bit homogenized over the years. You know, it's like you see little kids running around in Jason masks and things like that. So maybe you could. But yeah, man, I mean, we are spooky pinball. And everything we try to do is either science fiction or horror for the most part. Even Rick and Morty is very well-written science fiction, like ridiculously well-written science fiction. But, yeah, I would like to see us kind of getting back more to those horror elements. And, yeah, you're not wrong, Mr. Branch. You're a smart guy. Thank you. Well, before we move on from our mini-interview, we want to touch on some stuff that we'd be remiss not to ask you about. One of the bombs you dropped in your last show regarding your next game is that David Van Ness, or Bunyit for the people who know the spooky brand, what can you tell us about that? I know he's been at Spooky for a long time. He's been focused mainly on animations before this. How did that come about, and what can you tell us, if anything, about this next one? Boy, what can I say? I've got to be careful. David is honestly, he's an incredibly talented guy. He's been with us since Rob Zombie. He's literally worked on every single game we've ever done. He had kind of been put through the ringer early on in his attempted pinball career, helping some failed startups, and I'm glad that we landed him. He built a house right next door to mine. He's had some, he's been the same as us. He was operating games in Australia when he was younger than I was when I started getting into pinball. So he's been in and around it forever. But he had some really, really cool concepts that he had sketched up by a professional artist, actually John Chad, the guy that did the artwork for Jetsons for us, for the pinball company. And the concepts were really, really good. so we kind of let him pick the license and theme that he was interested in, and we're all helping. I mean, obviously, we're trying to take future game design a bit more by committee at Spooky Pinball, so, you know, like, I took a lot of heat for Rob Zombie. A lot of people didn't care for the way it played. I think it's a blast, but, you know, whatever. So we're trying to get more voices and hands on everything to just make the product better and kind of get a little bit more diverse group of people looking at the games so that they can be a little bit more user-friendly to different levels. And obviously every game is different, and you want the designers to stay up on it. But yeah, man, David, he's a great guy. He's a phenomenal employee, one of my favorite people on this planet. He's helping us expand our video and audio stuff. We're actually buying streaming gear and everything else that goes along with that. And I think people are going to be very, very excited when they see what he's come up with. And, you know, it's a long way from it. We've got until, like I said, probably April, May, June, somewhere in there before Rick and Morty wraps up. So just stay tuned. Let's just say good things are coming. Okay, excellent. All right, nice talk with Charlie. And now he will join us for the news. And now, Tim Hall in the news with your super awesome eyewitness news crew.
    53:38
    Don't fucking just read news off the internet, you fat piece of shit. All right, so the first news item is something that happened a little while ago. But, Chris, you and I never really got a chance to talk about it on air, so I wanted to talk about the online pinball expo they just had the other day, which was freaking awesome and good on Rob Burke for keeping the thing going, you know, through 2020 and all the madness of COVID. He found a way to get it out there. But a ton of great segments. Charlie, did you watch it at all? To be honest, no. Ben Heck was in town, and we worked that entire weekend. Oh, nice. All right, so good stuff was being done. at the Spooky Factory. Well, one of the highlights, and anyone who wants to go back and check these out can go on to Pinball Expo's YouTube channel and watch these, but there was a Beatles discussion, and Chris, you were on that discussion, and it was Gomez and Kamikow and Gary Stern showed up for a little bit and Jerry Thompson, but I wanted to pick your brain a little bit because Kamikow dropped some choice hints about some stuff, including referencing the possibility of a Harry Potter title coming from Stern. Do you have any insight on that? First of all, that seminar was a big disappointment for me because they had asked me to share all this stuff that I had. And for some reason, I couldn't get the share computer thing to work. So I was trying to send images to George Gomez, and he was pulling them up, but he wasn't getting them as fast as we were talking because it was happening live. I was feeling for you, man. Yeah, so I'm just like, damn it. You know, I had all this cool stuff to show everybody, and I wasn't able to. Not all of it. It was a couple of things. But anyway, you know, I reached out to Joe this morning. You know, everyone's talking like, ooh, Harry Potter, do you want to address this? And this is a note, this is a quote from the desk of Joe Cannon Co. Quote, cannot confirm nor deny, obviously I have a Potter game in the market. Stay tuned. There's the official word from Joey Cannon. I like it. Charlie, I mean, would Spooky ever want to do a title as big as Harry Potter? I know it's not in your wheelhouse, but you want the pressure. I don't. You know, and, oh, how do I say that? I'll be one of those guys that I firmly believe that game belongs at GJP. Let's just say that. Yeah, my opinion. That's only my opinion, but I see a lot of people saying, we hope that GJP gets it, not a knock against Stern. But to me, I mean, that kind of fits in that iconic Wizard of Oz kind of vibe. And again, Harry Potter is not really my thing. My wife and kids absolutely love it. But yeah, and I mean, odds are it's probably, if Joe really, really wants to make it happen, and he's pretty remarkable at doing that, it'll wind up being a Stern game, and that's perfectly fine, too. Here's something to consider, though. JJP comes out with a game that has a video screen in it, and Stern follows suit. There are developments that have come along in pinball that Stern is not just, well, we didn't do it, so we're not going to put it in our games. They've kind of followed suit. So the question is, with a property like Harry Potter, which is a potential windfall of cash, potentially, don't you think that Stern is capable of stepping it up? If Jersey Jack has proven it can be done, you can make a game this world under glassy, for lack of a better term, you know, with toys and things and cool stuff. Stern certainly has the potential of meeting that mark, you know, I mean, because it's like, it's not a secret, they're the big boys, okay, and they do do things a certain way, but I think they have the ability, if a certain thing comes along, to not change their ways but alter their ways temporarily to satisfy a market in a particular way? Because, like I said, it's proven it can be done, so why wouldn't they just do it? You're not wrong. And, I mean, when you think about what it takes to make a game to the level of, say, Wizard of Oz or Hobbit or a lot of the J.J.P. product, it's certain as every bit of that and more. So I guess it's just a matter of willingness. Are they willing to kind of take that risk to throw that much at a single game, throw a bigger monitor in it, all the little things that JGP is, they're the only ones really doing that now. And, you know, and that's fine. But, yeah, man, I mean, they're capable of anything. They legitimately could be, you know, they've got the engineers. You've been there, Chris. They've got everything the rest of us wish that we had in abundance. Not only is it there, it's multiple departments of it. And, you know, it's amazing what they have accomplished. And they are the big fish, and they are the ones that keep the interest and love of pinball alive for smaller companies like us to kind of get in with, you know, and provide something maybe a little bit different. But, of course, they can. It's just a matter of will they have the willingness to go that far with it. Right. I imagine, you know, it's got to be so tough when you get a license. I mean, for you, Charlie, it's Rick and Morty, for instance, that is such a loved license, and you guys did a hell of a job, and you did the property justice, but how much pressure are you under to basically make this game that you know the fans are clamoring for? That's got to be so hard because there's so many assets to pull from. You can go in so many different directions. How do you deal with that? Let's be honest. Like, NGCGP, Guns N' Roses, Wizard of Oz, all that kind of stuff. Wizard of Oz and Guns N' Roses obviously a little bit different because Guns N' Roses, they did have access to everything. Wizard of Oz, they didn't necessarily have all, you know, you're not going to get Judy Garland and all, every single character and all that stuff. You have to kind of go back and recreate. Stern has kind of had a tendency to put more money into the code and the artwork and everything else to kind of be their strong suit. We knew with Rick and Morty that we needed Justin Roiland. We needed Dan Harmon. We needed the physical actors to be doing their own voices, characters, and maybe our engineering isn't quite to the level of JJP, which is pretty phenomenal, but we can kind of make up for it in those other ways. But you're not wrong. When you get a license like Harry Potter, the expectations on day one are probably already higher than you're capable of hitting anyway. Yeah, I mean, the expectations with a gigantic license like that are sky high on day one. I mean, and Chris, you kind of saw that a bit with the Beatles. You know, people are like, why didn't they do Yellow Submarine? You know why they didn't do all that stuff? Because they weren't allowed to. So, yeah, Harry Potter is an immense world. It's so deep and so vast that how would you ever be able to get all that content and everything else and present it in a way that every single pinball fan slash Harry Potter fan is going to go, oh, my God, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. It's almost an impossible task. Do you think that the hobby could support multiple releases, like, you know, maybe three different versions, a young Harry Potter game, a middle-aged, and then the, you know, young adult? You know, if they came out, like, you know, two years apart or a year apart or something like that. Man, that's an interesting question. I've never considered that approach to, I don't know, you know, and there's been other licenses that have hit pinball that people thought would be bigger than they were. And, you know, Star Wars Episode I, for example, back at the end of the Williams days, was anticipated as being the big kahuna, and it was going to outsell everything that had ever been done before, and it just didn't happen. So it's a really good question, Chris Franchi, and I don't know the correct answer. Could it support more than one title? Maybe. Yeah. It's interesting to think about, because that's one way you could conquer that. I think it would be impossible to put the entire world of Harry Potter and all of those movies into one game, or even three different levels. I don't think you could do, like, young Harry Potter is the pro, and then middle-aged Harry Potter is the premium, and then the adult is the LE. I don't think you could do that. Well, maybe if the game was the same, right? But you couldn't, maybe in different art packages, but you couldn't make three different games with three different models, right? I mean, that would be nice. Yeah, maybe they should just make two models. Let's just say two models, a pro and an LE of each game, and do one every year and a half or something like that. You know, limit the amount of models you make, but, you know, do three different editions. I don't know. We're just speculating. We're just throwing darts. But we've got more news to get on.
    61:45
    Such as new pinball Hall of Fame inductees. Another cool bit that they did with the Pinball Expo. So let's give congratulations to this year's inductees, Jack Guarneri of Jersey Deck Pinball. Tommy Grant, Elogio Pingaran, pardon me if I screwed that up, Shaz Siddiqui, and the immortal Todd Tuckey. Whoa! Oh!
    62:09
    Good job, guys. Congratulations. I think it's really cool there's a place where these gentlemen can be immortalized. You know, they've done so much for the hobby, so good on them for being recognized for it. Definitely. And about time for Todd Tuckey. He's been at it for years. I mean, all these guys deserve it, but I'm glad to see Todd getting recognized. The next item was something that I saw last night on Facebook, and it was pretty cool because I know we're all in kind of a small niche of pinball, but gaming in general is so much bigger. And PlayStation and Xbox are releasing their new consoles next month, and there's been a ton of coverage about that. But why this is relevant to pinball is that I was watching a CNET video, which is an unboxing video of the console, and right behind the guy doing it was a stern Deadpool and a stern Jurassic Park. and this is kind of what we were talking about earlier, Charlie, about getting product into areas where you may not necessarily have had it before and it was very cool to see that because this video, you know, just last night had like 160,000 views and the games in the back were in a track mode and they looked really cool and it was almost way more interesting to just look at those games than it was to look at this stationary box on the table. So I'm hoping that it got more people interested and say, hey, what's that? And if Stern was involved in any way of making that happen, good on them from a marketing standpoint because there's just one more way of getting pinball out there. The only thing I can compare this to for us is we had to sign a release for the Kardashians to play one of our games on TV on their show one time. That's so cool. Which game? Which game was it? It was Domino's, actually, at Ace Kogi. Nice. Yeah, their agent had to contact us, and we had to sign a release for them, and it was very strange. That is very weird. Yeah, exactly what you're saying. It needs to happen more. The more we can get it out there into a bigger audience, the more the industry and the hobby grows and the more people become interested. I mean, this is all just pinball common sense, man. Yeah, let's get it out there. For sure. And it's definitely done that a bit for us with Rick and Morty because we have people after the fact. All the pinball people bought out all the Rick and Mortys and then all the Rick and Morty fans have gone crazy contacting us. Like, we didn't know, and how do we get one? Did you market this at all on the Rick and Morty fan pages? Was this something that they knew about? Yeah, Cartoon Network definitely did some of that for us to kind of give them a heads up because we knew. And this was another instance that, you know, back then again since you want to love the game, but Rob Zombie went to pinball fans first and Rob Zombie fans second. we would take that thing to horror conventions and people would lose their minds. It's got Rob Zobby and Sherry and Sid Haig and all this stuff going on and Captain Spaulding and horror movie fans are losing their minds about this. It's great. While pinball fans are like, eh, I'd rather play, you know, I think that was the latest turn. So it's a different audience when you start reaching outside the pinball realm, but it's something that definitely needs to happen more. And Rick and Morty, they tried to do that a bit. You know, we gave them a heads up that as the Fang Club membership started growing rapidly, like, oh my goodness, you know, we don't know what's going to happen on launch day here, but some of these games, if they're going to get into the hands of Rick and Morty fans, you know, you might want to start letting the word out now that this is the launch and how the process works, because most people aren't familiar with how pinball launches work. Just blatant truth, you know? They don't know that CERN is doing a collector's edition or JGP is doing a collector's edition or that we have a bloodsuckers edition. They don't know anything. They just think it's a product, so you get to buy it, and it's not always the case. How do you feel about flipping games? Like, hit all people who might have bought a Rob Zombie, for instance, and bought it because they love Spooky, but then a horror fan might reach out and say, hey, I'm really looking for this game, and they resell it at a ridiculously inflated price. How do you feel about that? Is that something you're totally fine with once it leaves your factory? It's up to them to do whatever they want with it? For the longest time, it absolutely drove me nuts. And we saw it again with Rick and Morty. We saw it on Rob Zombie. You kind of got to just get over it and understand that people are going to be people. You can't really control it. You're upsetting somebody, and this is America, and it's my game, and I can do what I want. And they're right. You know, they're absolutely right. Do I like it? I don't particularly do. But what do you do? We're just starting to see that. In the Guns N' Roses world, I guess there was this CD that sold secondhand just a day or two ago for $20,500. Oh, wow. So part of that was, I guess, going to a charity. I guess anything over a certain amount was going to a charity, so that might have bumped it up. That's a whole other thing then. Yeah, man, that's great when people can do that. Yeah. And then number two was, I guess, Lash came through the JJP factory and he signed a hat on one of the SEs, and that game was picked up by a guy just randomly. Cleveland. Yeah, and he's a guy who wanted to put it on route and decided instead he would sell it. And I guess he initially posted it for $20,000. so for an Etsy right now it says make offer or something this is $100 he got a lot of heat for it on this website so he changed it I can give you guys a little bit of a kind of I don't think I've ever told this story before very related and again this is part of knowing good people and being good to people in the industry Eric at GJP his dad is a huge Alice Cooper fan Norb is a Wisconsin operator game legend he's you know Chris and Eric's dad just great guy but we got him an autographed Alice Cooper Translight and gave it to Norb and he was, Eric was so happy with us, like he got last year, and I hope I'm not getting Eric in trouble, he got our son Bug some slash autographed artwork from Guns N' Roses and we gave this to him for Christmas, now think about this we gave this to him for Christmas last year so we've had a piece of unreleased artwork at our house for like a year that's cool you guys were good for it and that you wouldn't spill the beans he knew he could trust us with it and it's very flattering and it's an honor that you know Eric and I can be that way with each other but you know that's the way life should be man but it was great yeah Doug flipped out he saw it and he was like you know he's like oh my god what is this off of and I'm like I think it's the game that's not out yet and he's like and it's signed by Slash like he was as excited about the artwork as he was about the autograph That's so cool. Eric is such a good guy and super generous. Yeah, he is. He's a great, great human being. Proud to call him a friend. Yeah, for sure. Well, all that good news, and now we have to share a bit of bad news. The Path of Play shuts down. They're shutting the doors. This is a charity organized and started in 2017 that championed gaming of all kinds, especially as a way to promote inclusive spaces for everyone. The gentleman, Mike Fremo, who started the Path of Play, His son was born with autism, and so he really wanted to find a way to make gaming a family affair and a social affair so that everyone, regardless of who they are and what they're dealing with, could come and have fun and game together. So he was a big proponent of pinball use to help kids with special needs and really just gaming in general. so he brought gaming to schools through a something called the playroom experiment where he brought a bunch of different board gaming systems and that sort of thing to schools and just a great guy great charity i know pinball people have been really supporting them uh so i'm sad to see them go but i know they brought a lot of happiness to a lot of people so you know thanks for for what you guys have done if you're listening mike yeah absolutely glad to hear that yeah in happier news there's a new gaming documentary that's being made called arcade dreams on Kickstarter. They're crowdsourcing, I guess, for this. A lot of it is already made, but Imota Hardy is involved, and she's obviously awesome, and she's associated somehow with the project. It looks like a series all about the history of arcades and gaming, so I'm excited to see that. I know I watched the Highscore documentary on Netflix and loved it, so any more of that kind of thing is always a good thing, so support them if you can. What's interesting about this is the word series. I'm assuming there's going to be more than one documentary. I don't know if they focus on different areas or if it's just part one, part two, part three. That sounds interesting. The definitive arcade documentary series.
    70:32
    Excellent. You can never get enough of Modo. She's wonderful. She does a great job with everything she does. She does. She's so darn nice to me.
    70:43
    She's nice to everybody. Just like you are, Charlie. You guys are kindred spirits. Well, next up, American Pinball Tease is something that's new and exciting happening. And they put out, on American Pinball's page, they put out a graphic and it said, what, like seven days? This was a couple days ago. It said seven days until the big reveal. Well, I'm going to burst everybody's bubble now because this podcast is going out before Monday. Talks to American Pinball, and it has nothing to do with American Pinball. There is no pinball news coming from American Pinball on Monday. So they just linked it for extra marketing to the American Pinball page, I guess? I think so, and I warned them. I said, you guys are going to have anarchy on Monday morning. Pinball people find out that this is not pinball news. They're going to be like, oh, oh, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was weird, though, how they worded it because it said something new coming from Aintron. So it didn't say American Pinball, but still, I mean, it was confusing. Yeah, the Aintron logo is on there, but American Pinball is too, and it was on the American Pinball page, which is, you know, really confusing. So I just reached out to see if maybe I could clear it up, and they just said, oh, yeah, hey, it's this. And I'm like, oh, okay. Wah-wah. Yeah, that's a big wah-wah. All right. Well, some speculation out there from the Stern camp is that Led Zeppelin is coming. And that rumor's been out there for years now, almost. It feels like anyway. But there has been some renewed rumblings out there. I know Martin Agoob from Pinball Magazine on Facebook was saying that Led Zeppelin is going to be released really soon. And he said, let's just say what's on the line right now isn't Avengers Infinity Quest. So that may be coming soon. I reached out to Zach this morning as well. and asked him about this. He said basically that they never talked exact numbers, but they said that the demand for their games and their back orders is substantial, quote-unquote substantial. So it doesn't make sense to me, knowing what I know about Stern, that with a backlog that great and their importance is always like keep the line rolling. Why would they be rolling a new title when they have over 5,000 games needing to be made to fill orders? That doesn't make sense to me. If the lines are rolling and games are going out the door and money's coming in, they don't need to release something for the holidays to make money because they've got money sitting in empty boxes right now. Fill up the box, ship it out, you get your money. So I don't know that they'd want that delay to grow any more than it already has. Sure, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, if these games have been sitting there and we need to get these games out and people have been wanting them for three months and you add another three months to that because you're cranking out Led Zeppelin or whatever it is that they're making, that doesn't make sense to me that doesn't make good business sense either you know i would think you know if i was a distributor or whatever i'm like wait you're gonna go put some new game on while i'm still waiting for this crap i ordered three months ago thanks a lot you know so i don't see it happening but you know it's it's all speculation that's just my opinion unless it's a situation where the license has a deadline and that's the only thing that would make sense to me to do that otherwise yeah absolutely i'm with chris i think no way i'm doing that right yeah that makes sense the last item on here was i put on just because every time i hear of kelts which is being made in australia i don't know if you're familiar with them but they basically have been called the spooky pinball of australia because they you know they're a very small company but they're very likable incredibly passionate about pinball and they're creating their first game so do you know much about them the owner of the company down there early on was reaching out to me here and there and kind of chit-chatting back and forth and it's impossible not to like those guys. I'm rooting for them.
    74:19
    I've seen the game and I've seen some of the things that they're doing that's a little bit different. Like with the playfields and stuff that they were showing off, which they're very proud of and should be. Yeah, man. They're just a bunch of crazy, likable Australians that are in love with pinball.
    74:33
    If somebody wants to compare them to Spooky, I will take that as a compliment. That's awesome. We wish them nothing but the best, man. I hope it does well for them. Their enthusiasm and their character. I mean that in the kindest way. Their character of just being goofy, silly, and having a good time with this, that'll carry you a long way. And you've got to maintain some of that attitude in pinball especially. It's a rough business. If you lose your sense of humor, you're screwed. And those guys definitely seem like they have that in abundance. So, I mean, yeah, I wish them nothing but the best. I think that they look like they've made a pretty fun product. It's a little bit different, you know, and we'll see where it goes. I reached out to Damien actually about a month ago. I feel bad because a lot of people are talking about it now while they have the podcast, but nobody was about a month ago. And I'm just like, wow, whatever happened to those guys? I hadn't heard from them in a long time. So I reached out and we had a little bit of a chat. So just so everybody knows, everybody's healthy and doing well. Apparently the hindrance on their manufacturing was a little bit worse than it is around here, and they lost a lot of time in getting things together. But they're completely up and running now and selling games. And, yeah, they've got plans for a second and third game that they want to move on to. so they're hoping to push the new game out the door and get on to new stuff. So go check it out. Definitely good guys. It always makes you feel better when you're dropping a lot of money that you know it's going to some good dudes, and they're definitely solid. So we wish them all the best. Well, that concludes our news, Charlie, and you have been a real sport man for a second time. So thank you so much for coming on. It's been awesome to talk to you, as always. I do listen to your podcast, and like I said, it's funny because, like, bug listens to it and he's like, what the hell? How are they doing all this? He's like, how much time does Chris Franchi spend editing all this? And I'm like, I have no idea. Too much.
    76:22
    He does everything for Spooky Pinball and that department now too and he's like, there's no way in hell I'm doing all that.
    76:29
    It's definitely a labor of love. We don't get a nickel for doing it. Appreciate the efforts out there. Super awesome listeners because, yeah, it's It's a lot of work. Yep. And kudos to you guys for making it happen, and thanks again for having me on. It's always fun to talk to you guys. One of these days, Chris, we've got to do something together, buddy. You and me. Come on. Yeah. It's going to happen, right? Well, there's talks.
    76:54
    We'll just say that there's talks. Nice. There's things and stuff going on. Stuff and things. And then if you want to have me on your pinball podcast, I'd be happy to come over there. But, yeah, I want to join up on the horror movie one one of these days. Heck, yeah, man. Let's have you on the next episode. Let's just book it right here, live on air. Nice. Wow. Let's do it. You're on. All right. Well, just let me know when you're ready, and roughly what you guys might be talking about so I can do a little homework. Sure. Because that's the worst thing is to get a, okay, today we're going to be talking about the movie Dead and Buried. Ah, ah, I didn't see that one. God damn it.
    77:27
    All right. Well, we'll give you a theme at least a week in advance so you can prep, and we'll have you on the next episode. How's that? Awesome. And I thank you with the most genuine love. Happy Halloween, sir. Same to you. All right, so stick around. After this commercial, we have international pinball sensation Jack Danger joining us. We'll be right back.
    77:49
    As everyone knows, rainbows usually have a treasure at the end. Let's follow this one and see if we can find the Super Awesome Pinball Show. Something curious about this broadcast. You know, it really is amazing.
    78:04
    How about the line from Stern Pinball? Avengers Infinity Quest From an all-star design team Including all the extreme excitement of a Keith Elwin design Avengers Infinity Quest Thumping stereo audio And a game code to ensure hours of thrills and challenges Avengers Infinity Quest New from Stern Pinball Available now from Coinsaker.com Coming from the proudest riches of the universe to challenge the worst villains on Earth are the most powerful heroes ever in the Battle of the Superpowers Collection. Park, Batman being called to stop a dastardly deed. You from Kenner's Superpowers Collection, the Batmobile, figures with power, action, soul, secrecy. Got you, Joker. Don't let him get you. It's the war. It's a trap. Activate battle ramp. Double Batman? That's my Batmobile. I mean, thanks, too. It's just the end of our heroes in the back over you. You decide.
    79:13
    Hi, this is Joe Camco from Kapow Pinball, and you're listening to the weirdest weirdos I've ever met on the Super Awesome Pinball Show. That's too sad.
    79:30
    What's up, dog? We're back. Honestly, though, them boys are a little scary. The Super Awesome Pinball Show. It's a good show.
    79:50
    Come on, baby. Come on. I want the pointy one wheel. I took my hand.
    79:58
    I want the brick. Oh, my. There's no. Oh, my God. Play better! Hu hu! Careful! Forehead! Blah blah blah! Play better! Hu hu! Blah blah blah! What the fuck just happened? A-
    80:13
    Oh Jesus! You! What the fu- What the- Frick! What the frick dude! Oh... Oh no dude. Are you kidding me man? What?! Come on, Ten! Come on! Did you see that guys? I'm angry. Wait, what are you- What are you fucking doing to shoot? Gimme- Let me hit the flippers! Oh my- Wow, fuck this game. Motherfucker! Why is the spinner tilting the game? It's fucking... Who... Are you... Internet, are you watching this? Game happened? Did you see that shit? And now my life is a fart. Jack Danger! Jack Danger streams all things pinball Monday through Friday, every night, live on Twitch. Where he'll teach you new pinball skills, drink one or two mini beers, and have a lot of fun. But he's more than just the world's biggest pinball streamer. He's a big part of showcasing new pinball machines, including all of Stern's launches. He's also a competitive player, homebrew game designer, and all-around nice guy. And the pinball ambassador for the modern age. Please welcome to the show, Jack Danger. Woo!
    81:26
    Jack Danger. Hey, what's up, Internet? Jack Donger. Jackie Donger. It's Dutch. What's going on, Jack? Well, no drama pinball. No drama pinball, baby. That's me. I'm just hanging. I'm just hanging out, sitting at my desk, surrounded by millions of pinball machines that are off right now. That's so nice, man. I'm very spoiled. They were all free. You bastard. They were all free. Two that you own, right? Oh, yeah, kind of. I mean, I've never really officially bought a pinball machine. One I owned because it was gifted to me by a good friend, and another one, you know what? I take it back. I did buy one for $200, but I completely disassembled it to retheme it and then lost interest in that.
    82:08
    All right, man. Well, let's get into it. So we're going to go into the pinball world in detail in a second, but a lot of people want to know about Jack Danger's life pre-pinball. So what was your job slash career like before you went full-on steady with the pinball hobby? Oh, geez. I've worked in every industry, period, anywhere. I was a waiter. I was a person that scooped up fish guts off of docks. That's really nice. But just before I got into pinball, I was an animator, and I was an animator for 18 years. And I worked as creative director at a couple of big studios downtown here in Chicago. When I went freelance, I worked with, like, the Wachowskis on Jupiter Ascending, if you've ever seen that movie. I helped concept the bees and a lot of the user interface stuff that happens in the sci-fi crap. And I opened my own studio because I was like, it's progression. Once you've done it all and worked your way up and all that's left is, like, the boss above you, it's time to go up in your own place. Right. So I built out my own studio in the West Loop, and a buddy of mine bought a pinball machine and didn't have anywhere to put it. Put it in my studio, and the rest is freaking history. So that was your buddy Brad, right? I looked at a couple interviews he had done in the past. So I don't want to rehash all that stuff because I know you talk about it a million times. But you had a Lord of the Rings and a Judge Dredd. You caught the bug hard at that point. So how did you get from that point to streaming? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Chris, bro. There's another question here. There's a job that you left out, Mr. Yeah I worked at a poster store It was great Oh I was a safari guide at no Reap cafe yeah oh that awesome wait well let me give you a hint all right everybody let get that next shot slap a meet out here everybody welcome jack tanger to the stage hello get it now okay okay so you know when you're young and you need some money you know what i'm saying you you know i'm talking Am I right? Did you say young or old? Okay. Let cock magic be done by the professionals. Franchise.
    84:10
    I worked, okay, when I was younger, I worked at this place called Hollywood Mirror. It was a secondhand clothing store that we took clothes from thrift shops and then sold them for way too much money. It was like the hit place to work. And this was in a neighborhood called Boys Town at the time.
    84:25
    Nearby, there were several clubs where gentlemen could dance for gentlemen for money. and I needed money, and I danced.
    84:37
    So, okay, here's the thing. I did it. It was great. I called myself Cowboy Jack. I've heard that term before. One of the questions we have later is Cowboy Jack related, so now I get it. So I'm doing my thing up there, and in Boys Town at the time, they were very, very handsy. That's quite gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    85:01
    It was just, you know, I made a lot of money in one night and just didn't feel comfortable going back. So there it is. That was it for you. Was there crotchal touching? Yes. You don't want it.
    85:18
    Now, wait a minute. What did you say the name of the resale shop was? It was called Hollywood Mirror. Did they have other stuff like antiques and kind of retro furniture and shit? Absolutely. I bought a chair there on my honeymoon. Nice. a green or no it was a white vinyl chair with a boomerang pattern on it because we had a retro bedroom was all 50s yeah i actually worked the uh there was a basement where all the furniture was that was my area i i worked that whole thing how about that yeah that's so cool i got a great story about getting a job there so i walked in and the manager looked me up and down he's like no he knew i was coming over to like ask for a job he's like no get out of here like it was very elitist there and the other manager uh was this young lady named sonia and she she's essentially like i hate that guy i'm gonna hire you right now just to spite this dude and so i get the job i come back the next day and he's like what are you doing here and i'm like she hired me he's like fine i got a job for you he goes my dog needs a douche and i need you to go to the Walgreens and go buy a douche for my dog.
    86:29
    And I was like, well, if I got to do it, and I go buy the douche, and they had trouble finding it, so they, you know, I had like two people helping me find this thing, and I bring it back, and Sonia, the other manager, goes, you know that that wasn't for his dog, right? And I was like, oh, what am I doing?
    86:46
    But it turned out to be a really awesome place to work. Once you got past the douching. Yeah. Anyway. That is hilarious. This interview is already a five-star interview. Sorry. It's just funny because I remember, because you're probably wondering, how the hell did you end up there on a honeymoon? My wife lived in Chicago for a while, and she had a few gay friends, so she was familiar with the Boys Town area. And so when we went there, and I was talking about retrofranchise or whatever, she was like, oh, I got the place to take you. And that's where we ended up. So that's funny. A really rad place. Most of my clothes came from there. In fact, I think half my wardrobe is still from that place. Noice.
    87:31
    All right. Well, debauchery was abound in your early, early life. But how did you get into the pinball streaming world from, you know, just catching the pinball bug to getting there? When we got asked to work with Jersey Jack to do Wizard of Oz, that's when we're like, we're going to dive headfirst into everything pinball. and we started creating our own graphics for um papa we were going to help papa like improve their like on-screen stuff for like their pre-recorded videos that they were making okay yeah and so we were going back and forth and then there was a bit of a dry spell in communication so i was like you know i made all these dope graphics i might just i might just use these for myself and uh one of the animators in my studio was watching twitch all the time and finally i'm like what the hell are you want like you're watching some guy play world of warcraft like that's great but you also need to be working. So what the hell's going on? And it came to this conversation of like, you should do this on Twitch. You can record your gameplay, see where you're messing up, right? Go watch it back and get better. And it really just started off as a way for myself and the rest of the guys in the studio that played pinball to just keep track of, you know, the mistakes we were making. And slowly it just picked up traction. That's cool, man. The graphics you made for Papa, were those the GIF animations of like the different pinball moves that I've seen you on your website? Oh, no, I don't even know why I made those. I made those, like, ages ago. I think I just had, like, some downtime after working on a big project. And just from people asking me constantly, like, wow, what did you just do there? It's a post-test. What did you just do there? It's a post-test. Okay, go look at the, here's a link. Go look at all this and study it, you know. Dude, those are freaking awesome. I'd love to remake them. But, yeah, they've, the analytics on that page from those GIFs is just through the roof. It's so good. anytime that I have a friend who's into pinball and who wants to know, you know, the basics, instantly link to that page because it's idiot-proof. You know, it's like the obvious, the dead flip, what's a dead flip, or the post-transfer, all this stuff, the trust, you know, things that you don't necessarily know right off the bat and take you a while to learn just by playing. So actually seeing the gifts are awesome. Yeah, bud. A lot of people say that they'll pull those up on their phone and just practice those skills. Like they'll focus on one skill and be like, okay, I want to only do post-passing. So I'll just ignore the game and make a game out of how often can I post-pass back and forth. If I did it three times in a row, let's go for four. And like a great, that's a great way to train yourself to get better at these skills. Hell yeah. And at what point, when you were doing this, when you were broadcasting on Twitch, what did you have to do to turn it into making a living doing pinball streaming? And are you making a living at doing pinball? I mean, cause you probably had to, originally, you probably had to sort of like, you know, formulate a concept, right? How are we going to get this to work? Yeah. So, so what point in your filming yourself, did you realize, Hey, I'm going to make the switch and do this for a living? Well, for the first two years, my schedule was, I would work until 5 PM on my animation stuff, commercials, whatever. And then at five, I would go in the back room, fire up the stream, stream for two hours, stop there, come back to my desk and keep making money. Right. And also like when we started streaming, Twitch was still kind of the Wild West, so a lot of the tools and ways of making money that we have now did not exist back then. This was like six years ago. Pre-bits. Yeah, exactly. Pre-bits. So, in order to build an audience for that, I was noticing like about the first year, the audience was very slow to roll in. So, I decided to start going to video game conventions, comic conventions, all this stuff, and bringing a pinball machine with me and broadcasting from those locations. Follow me, you comic book man! Woo! And then we would get, like, I'd go to Comic-Con or TwitchCon. We brought a bunch of pinball machines and all these people, all these big streamers that are like, what the hell is this? Hey, we don't take kindly to your tats in here. Calm down, you ain't hurting nobody.
    91:27
    Be like, hey, I stream these giant tables that have lights in them. You know, like, come check this out. And just by doing that alone grew the audience for the viewership of that, like, exponentially. and once I was starting to see some money rolling in and like cash was like cash was king in the first few years of streaming like money being thrown in is how I got paid through twitch subscriptions weren't really that big of a thing subs now are like that's where the money comes from but it was a very difficult discussion to have with my wife to be like I don't want to animate anymore I just want to play pinball machines forever I know I'm making a butt ton of money animating, but I want to go from making lots of money to making almost no money, and we'll see what happens. Did she give you one of those slaps in the back of the head that makes your hair poop up? What's the big idea? Get out!
    92:18
    It was more of a, like, punching me in the face and the back of the head at the same time. Like, trying to pop a zit. So, she's like, you know what, if you can make this work in a year, I'll give you a year. And when the gun's to your head, man, you bust your ass. And I went everywhere and did everything I could to get the word out and uh it it picked up it kicked off on the timeline where are we as far as like date or year goes where are we here 2017 I think 2017 is when I went full-time 2017 2018 somewhere around there yeah and uh it worked I I went absolutely everywhere I bothered twitch as much as possible I was like put me here put me there you contacting sponsors be like uh does the walking dead need someone to do commentary on a video game I've never played fucking put me on the desk you know i'll i'll learn it as i'm watching you know and then just doing anything i could you know i do the play-by-play for big buck hunter i've played that game twice in my life you know i did an h1z1 tournament i was seeing the game for the first time when i was making the calls on the game but i had a guy from espn next to me who knew everything so i was just like well he really messed up there didn't he and you know just adding that wasn't enough for people to be like this is amazing this guy's doing great but i'm like i I don't know what fucking gun he just picked up. That's great. He got bullets. That is hilarious. You know what I'm saying? I'm bad in those pinball games. I mean, yeah. The hotness of Twitch streaming is video games, right? I mean, you're kind of your own niche in pinball. There are two questions. One is, was there anyone else streaming pinball when you started to do it? And two, all this video game exposure that you're getting through Twitch, you know, there's the Fortnites and the Dr. Disrespect and the ninjas out there who are pulling in, you know, multi-millions every year. have you ever thought about going into the video game world? Oh, okay. Well, let's start with the who was streaming pinball before me. There was a gentleman who's actually a really good friend of mine now. His name is LethalFrag, is LethalFrag, and he only streams roguelike games like Bashi and what's that game where the kid's crying and he shoots tears at people?
    94:21
    I know what you mean, but it sounds odd. Okay, great. So that's what he plays, but he would occasionally switch over to a pinball setup and he'd play Creature or certain Star Trek. And he stopped streaming pinball because he said it was killing his channel. And, you know, I really struck it out. He helped me a lot with exposure as well. He would, like, host me or mention me from time to time. And pinball wasn't a category on Twitch at all when we first started. So by streaming pinball exclusively, I was sort of breaking the rules there a little bit. I'd have to trick the API to say pinball, and every 30 minutes it would kick me off. But with his help, we were able to convince Twitch to create a pinball category And I created the logo that is that flipper with the golf ball looking thing. The reason it's a golf ball in low poly is because that was the branding at the time. So I need to create a new icon for that. The flipper also might look kind of familiar. It's my logo, but with some variation there. But yeah, Lethal Frag was a very big force in like helping get the word out. But he is completely stopped streaming pinball, which is unfortunate. But yeah. And as far as like streaming other stuff to get the bigger viewers, I have thought about it. It's been a conversation my wife and I have had. We're like, get huge. That's what she said.
    95:34
    Get huge and then come back and trick people into watching pinball. You know? Yeah. Because we're on that road to, I could go play something else and still maintain a good viewership and possibly pull more people in by playing one of those AAA title games. But I suck at video games so bad. It is unreal.
    95:53
    I just today tried, I installed Call of Duty Warzone. Modern Warfare, whatever the crap it's called. I hop in. I got killed. I was like, I waited 20 minutes for this game. I started another one. I killed one person. And then I just, I can't do it. I don't know. The problem with video game shooters like that is that there are kids who have been doing that since they've been like three years old. And they're so freaking, like, exquisitely good at those games that you just don't have a chance. Yeah, I tried playing Fortnite. It's like playing Bob the Builder while people are, like, throwing grenades that are fish at your head. Yes. You should try Animal Crossing. You know what? That might be more my speed. Yeah, nice. No, there are games out there, though, that aren't shooters, that don't rely on that hand-eye coordination, which you have, obviously, but it's a different way of doing it. You know, it's pinball versus, you know, AK-47s and that sort of thing.
    96:42
    But, yeah, anyway, I could see you doing that, man. You have the personality to definitely bring people in. It's not a bad idea. Plus, I'm sure the paycheck with a huge viewership is pretty nice, too. Yes, yes. All that aside, I will say, like, through the generosity of the pinball community and everyone that watches me, we have become a very successful channel. And I am able to make a living off of what I do. And that is through the folks that are watching. And I can't thank everyone enough for, you know, supporting me and helping me do the stuff I do. Yay. Well, you know, you've actually basically set the standard for pinball streaming and blazed a trail for a lot of others to get into it. And you're also very generous in that you help others and you make how-to videos and, you know, share tips on how to get started. So, like, you know, if somebody wanted to get into pinball streaming, what would the range of money be as far as getting the basic setup and equipment that you need? Not to mention the time in order to set it all up and all that. Right. What's somebody looking at here? So, on the, like, how to stream pinball page that I built that everyone can go look at and see the gear you need to buy and stuff. And I also need to update that. At the bottom, there's like financial tiers on how to stream, right? Like if you have some garbage webcams. At the base, super base level, the stream pinball, you can literally just use your cell phone. Put your cell phone on a selfie stick. Aim it at the pinball machine at a three-quarter view so they see the play field and the screen. You're freaking done. The microphone on these phones is fantastic. The camera's fantastic. You can set up alerts and stuff on your phone so it'll make noise. You could set up text-to-speech, so when someone donates, it'll say the message they say. Literally, at the base level, you can use your stinking cell phone. So the price of entry is very low, pending you have, you know, a cellular device that you can make phone calls and record videos with. But, yeah, I mean, I don't want to even talk about the money I've spent on my gear. But I was just going to say, like, what are you currently at? It was the upper level. I mean, you don't have to say how much you've spent. But if you want to make, like, a kick-ass setup, what would it be? I mean, just my face camera alone was probably $3,000. Holy crap. Yeah. Do you worry about his importance? Exactly. And all the other cameras are garbage because who cameras?
    98:51
    I'm so popular. Everybody loves me so much. So since you started streaming, you've done your live stream like five nights a week. So how hard is it to maintain your energy and play hours of pinball every single night? Well, I'll tell you, the part about my job that sucks is the moving a new pinball machine into location, setting everything up. But the second I hit go live, it's just hanging out there. There's no effort in it. It's just everyone, you know, is talking shit to you. You're talking shit back. I'm tired of you. Oh, no.
    99:28
    All the while there's pinball being played. My show, I focus more on like the interaction and the entertainment aspect of it. I'm not there to just sit quiet and blow up a huge score. I really could care less about that. When I'm playing pinball, I like to treat it like Mario Brothers, right? Don't brag about how many coins you got to your boy. What you do is you try to beat Bowser. I only want to see the cool stuff happen in the game. So I'm not going to sit there and farm out shots left and right. So that keeps it interesting for me as well because it's not a boring, repetitive, like I'm just going to hit this left rim 30 times and then it's going to give me all these points. No, I get to see cool light shows and animations and stuff happening. And that's also, I would imagine, what my audience is trying to see as well. Getting a huge score is great, but that also comes along with getting to those screens or those modes that I'm trying to look at. It's the interaction, man. Once I hit go live, it goes from this suck to set up to I freaking love everything that's happening right now. That's cool, though, because I can see how you really would enjoy it more if you don't put so much pressure on yourself to have X, Y, and Z that you have to do on a certain night or in a certain game. you just kind of let it roll.
    100:34
    There's no objective outside of just hanging with my friends and playing pinball. Well, you've had some of those games for a long time. And when you do get a new one, there's a span of time where you get used to the game yourself and you go over the rules as you learn. So I think there's usually a good maybe two, three-week period where you are very hands-on with the rules and explaining things and all that. And then after you've had it for a while, then you kind of settle into just... There you go. So there is some value to tuning in when a new release comes out, when you get it. Oh, yeah. Because you can learn that stuff. I do try to let people know what I'm doing as I'm doing it. And as you mentioned, especially when a game first comes in, because I'm learning it too. So as I'm discovering these rules, I'm also reiterating them in the next game that I play. But, yeah, as I've had the game for a while and I assume the audience knows what's going on, I don't get as descriptive, but you are seeing like the different skill sets. I am showing you like, you know, oh, this always shoots out of the buck like this. So just leave that flipper down, let it do a bounce pass, and then you could send it on its way. But if a score is really starting to develop, I will explain like, okay, well, I'm going to shoot this to avoid this and then go over here. But really, I just try to keep it conversational. How much of that is you figuring out the rules and the way to blow it up?
    101:51
    Like you came up with the Batman 66 strategy or a couple of them that are really good. versus calling up a lineman and saying, hey, how do I dominate this guy? I don't like knowing too much because it, how do I put this? If you walk up to a pinball machine that you know very well and you're battling someone that's never played it before, there's a really good chance that person's going to kick your ass because you're making dangerous shots that you know are worth cash, but they're dangerous. While they're just shooting stuff that's fun, and if something feels comfortable, they're just going to keep hitting it. So if someone gives me too much of that ammunition, I feel like I start making mistakes, and then it looks like I can't play pinball at all. Makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. You get in your own head. Like, I came up to Avengers last weekend and tried it for the first time, and just knowing the basics of the rules I think hurt me, as you said. Shoot to see what's comfortable. Let the, you know, find the geometry for this before you start getting too deep into, like, what you need to be shooting. Right. You do this Monday through Friday. There's got to be nights where you're ready to go in, and you're just like, you know, maybe the night before you had some asshole in chat. You just never not feel like you want to go in or are you just, you know, gearing to go every day? Every day, man. Because it's like waking up, going to work, and knowing that your friends are at the bar waiting for you and just, like, wanting to get out there and have a good time, you know? And we invite the assholes. We love the assholes. And some of you out there that watch the show will admit that you were those assholes that have come in and be like, wow, Jack Danger, what a real piece of shit. Who plays freaking pinball? and you give them a moment and we'll like poke them and play with them for a little bit. And if they stick to their guns and they want to be a dick, we'll get rid of them. But a lot of people have just messaged me and be like, hey, man, thanks for not banning me. I just had a bad day. This is actually pretty cool. I'll see you in a week or something, you know. So, yeah, it's sort of a meme in our chat that when someone comes in and starts talking shit, all my moderators know to leave that person alone. We're going to talk to them for a minute. But if they stick to it, then we'll get them out of there. Now, recently, recently Twitch celebrated moderators, and you have one that goes by the name of Tater Salad. Yeah. Every day that you're there, he is there. Can you shine a little spotlight on, I can't say he or she, I don't know who it is, but Tater's my boy. Without him, there's like little to no moderation in my channel. I even submitted his name for this big moderator thing they were doing, and I believe he was down to like the final two that they were trying to choose to do something with. I forget what it was. I think it was like free tickets to TwitchCon or something. Big deal.
    104:18
    But I mean, I've offered to like buy himself. I'm like, what's your address? I want to send you stuff. He's like, I don't want compensation like this. This is what I like to do. So this is just a dude sitting at home. And when you log on, he chimes in and moderates your room. And that's it. He doesn't get paid for it? Nothing. Nope. But I mean, he is the most respected person in that chat room. And I can't do half of the stuff I do without Tater Salad. So, like, I can't shout their name enough to the rooftops. Get a good moderator. And if you can, do anything you can for them because they will help your life run a lot smoother. Well, speaking of, I wanted to jump into the next thing because we've got a group of dead flip diehards, kind of the long timers. No. If you will. Who have all submitted amazing questions for you. And Tater Salad is actually one of them. The others that are in there are Amosis.
    105:09
    Oh, my God. You've got Amosis? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, he actually led the charge. Redkeg, Pinball Dad, Al Anonymous, Blue Continental, and a couple others for you.
    105:21
    That's a great lineup. Okay, I'm ready. We're going to pepper these throughout the interview. So here are the first two questions. I'll hit you with the first one. Yeah. All right. You've been through a few studios over the years. What was your favorite studio? My original one. My animation studio. It was 3,500 square feet in an industrial warehouse. Best view of the city on the rooftop of the place. I spent a lot of money to renovate that joint, and I miss it every single day. We're getting back to the point where I could afford that again, and I need that amount of space, but I'll never find that amount of space for the money I was paying for it. God, it was so good. Everything was giant steel fire doors that were really, oh, God, the whole place was, I'm going to cry. I'm so sad.
    106:02
    All right, so the next one is Fuck, Marry, Kill, Break Shot, Batman 66, and Deadpool. oh my god they're evil huh wow i'm gonna guess this one yeah all right this is what i'm gonna guess you're gonna say fuck batman 66 marry deadpool kill break shot you fucking come bro that was it that's right thank you yeah i watch yeah i tune in deadpool one of my favorite games period, right? Batman 66 is just on its heels. And it depends on the day that Batman will go up and down, because sometimes that game is a dick to me. And Breakshot's just... Breakshot was the first pinball machine I ever owned. That's why I put Batman as fuck, because it goes up and down. Yeah, Breakshot was gifted to me by one of my moderators and good friend Wonko from my chat, and he gifted it to me after my amazing showing at Replay Effects, I think, three or four years ago. I can't remember what place I got. I think it was like 11th. I don't even know where I was. I was on stage in A Division, which was bonkers. Yeah, that's crazy. That's some stiff competition. Yeah.
    107:16
    Add a boner noise there. That's just a sympathy boner. That's Frenchy. All right, go ahead, Chris. You got the next one? Yeah, but I was trying to read it, but then I got interested in what he was saying, so I didn't get to read it. So after all of your streams over the years, I'm sure some of them stand out. Kristen and I are going to throw a few categories at you, and we want to see which of the streams best fits each one of these. Okay. First one, biggest stream of all time numbers-wise. Oh, geez.
    107:46
    That would have to be, I was on the floor of TwitchCon, and they put me on the front page, and I was broadcasting. I can't remember the game because we had a whole bank of them. But then one of the moderators. Oh, no, this was, gosh, this was ArchCon. It wasn't even Star Wars. I don't think they even gave me, like, Stern sent me some games, but I don't think they were even new games. Okay. This was, like, ages ago. This might have been, like, 2017, 2018. So I had all these games set up. We were on the front page. Numbers were humongous. And then a moderator for a person that is banned on Twitch for their toxicity, but at the time I didn't really know who this was. The moderator goes, well, cool, pinball. Can we tell everyone in our Reddit to come watch you? And I was like, heck yeah. They're like, listen, I don't know if you're going to be able to handle these people. And I'm like, I got it. I got this. And they sent it over, and our numbers went through the roof. But everyone was saying the most toxic, disgusting crap I had ever seen in my life. You got a small picture. I'm sorry.
    108:52
    And I was just like, I don't know what to do here. We couldn't even moderate it. We had to, like, go get Twitch and be like, you got to, like, figure something out here. Yeah. So it wasn't the greatest stream, but it was our biggest numbers. Do you remember the numbers you were hitting?
    109:08
    Crap. It was definitely six digits, but I can't recall what that was. Yeah. Okay. Twelve. All right. So your personal GOAT stream, the greatest of all time, your favorite that you've ever done. Can you pick a child? Favorite child? that's rough because like it even though it wasn't live i think it was playing elvira with elvira that is cool man because we were gonna stream it in the last second we were told not to but i'm still gonna put that up there cassandra came over i was asking her questions while she was playing and then when i was playing she took the mic from me and started interviewing my ass nice um it was phenomenal um that or when scott denisi and i drove all the way to canada to deliver the first TNA to Ed Robertson's house. I remember that one. And then we streamed from his house. And he actually left for a concert, right? Yeah, he let two perfect strangers into his frickin' mansion, and we go in his basement and set up, and he's like, well, I gotta go do a show for two hours. I'm like, what the frick are you talking about? And then he came back, and we were already live, and there it was. That's so cool. Let's tip the scales, then. What was the worst stream ever?
    110:18
    We've had a lot of like location streams that have been sabotaged by idiots uh I can't there's so many bad ones that it's hard to put my finger on it because there's sometimes like you're like streaming at a bar and then someone would get a hold of the bar's phone number and just start harassing the joint or or having like 30 individual beers delivered to my table or uh so it's funny but it's like it's not for them because they got stuff to do and it just puts me in an awkward spot so it was there anyone that like you woke up the next day and went i just don't want to do this anymore that just really torqued you up there was a stream where i drank was it two or three full bottles of red wine out of the bottle um i was popped cork on the first bottle drank a whole bottle popped cork on the next one and i woke up on the floor with all of my Shit's still running. You sounded drunk or something on the radio.
    111:17
    Yes, thank you. And every, like, OGs in my chat still, like, they will list that as probably their favorite stream for them because I was a different dimension on that broadcast. Jack, was that the box stream? No, but I, well, maybe. I don't know. I end up in a lot of stern boxes for some reason.
    111:37
    Because the next question was from your fans, and they said, which show does you remember the least or were you the most blacked out for, and why was it the box stream? Yeah, it was possibly the box stream, because every time Stern brings a game, I have this giant box that takes up way too much space in my studio, and then I end up getting inside of it or falling into it. There was one where I fell into the box, and it crumpled in on me in a way where the force of my body or the weight of my body was holding the box closed on top of me. I couldn't get out of the damn thing and started screaming. I think I'm falling. And I was like, I can't get out of this freaking box. So I had to, like, just sort of gnaw my way out of this cardboard prison I was stuck in. Yeah, it was good. Well, between that and, like, the red wine and then, you know, your pinball-related injuries from smacking your wrist and, you know, doing the bang backs or Gary Stern cutting up your food for you at dinner, can you isolate the craziest moment you've ever had on a stream? The first time Gary Stern was on my show, he came over, and I was already live, And I told the internet, I'm like, I heard Gary's a drinker. I'm going to go toe-to-toe with this guy. He is not going to drink more than I am. And it turns out he is a much better drinker than I am. No bar too far.
    112:53
    I remember him coming over. I remember streaming for a bit. But then there was flashes of us going to a very expensive restaurant and Gary reaching over my plate and helping me cut a whole fish that I had ordered. It's just like looking down and just watching him like reaching over everyone's, and he's just like cutting up this white fish. And I don't remember, like, I don't know what happened. But, yeah, that man's a tank. Was he feeding you? Have you been fed by Gary Stern? I think my brain might have put that imagery in my head, but definitely he was cutting a fish open for me. So just tell me that you fell asleep with your face in the fish. I was in the alley next to a dumpster with a fish in my mouth. Seriously, you're drinking a solid number of beers every night, and you've got a good taste in brew, by the way, but how the heck do you stay so damn skinny with how much you drink? Yeah, you bastard. You really are a bastard. So, okay, I'll put it this way. It is an appearance of how much I drink. Add it with cocaine.
    113:57
    It's sort of a shtick. I don't drink as much as I appear. You have a choice for the last couple of years. It's been gin and bottled water. What does the gin look like? Oh, very cool. All right, what's your gin choice, man? Because that's one of my passions. All right, so there is a gin that one of the hot nudge ladies left for me, and it's called Greenhouse, and it's made in Texas. And look at the bottle. It looks like it should taste like pine needles or something, but when you open it up and smell it, it smells like a grape popsicle. and when you drink it, it tastes exactly how it smells. Oh, my God. This is amazing. What's the name of that? Because you were talking about it before and I forgot the name. I wanted to buy some. It's called Greenhouse and it is unbelievably good. I'll be buying some of that then. The next time I see you, Jack, I'm going to bring you a bottle of my favorite, which is called Brooklyn Gin. They make it, obviously, in Brooklyn, New York, and it is so good. It's not flavored, but it's good. If we're talking about liquor, I have to bring up something. Uh-oh. Malort. Yes. The legend of Malort, which is, you know, it's a Chicago thing, But to me, it's a Jack Danger thing. It's a pinball thing. Now, I heard you talk about this the other night, and I want you to elaborate for people who are listening to our show who might not have heard it. But I do want to say that I am one of the cool kids because when I tried it, because you bought me a shot when we were, I think, the first time I met you, I said it was the most disgusting thing that I ever tried in my life. And apparently, that's when you know people are being true. yeah there's people out there that are bragging they're like yeah i love this stuff no you don't fucking love it dude yeah yeah it tastes like sweaty toes yeah so malort is uh they call it a schnapps um i don't even know what the hell's in it but it's like a chicago thing and everyone's got a different idea of what it tastes like like tuna fish and cigarettes to me it tastes like uh when i was younger and i would put a lot of aquanet in my hair and the door and window would be closed and you're sort of breathing that in and tasting it. I know that. That's pretty accurate. And you buy it for your friends when they come in. It's a rite of passage. You have to try a shot of Malort. And one of the fun things I used to do with my friends back when we would all gather at bars, remember that, was I'd have like seven or eight of my pals with me. I'd get seven shots of Jim Beam and one shot of Malort. It's all the same color. Oh, nice. If you put that train down, you'd be like, hey, cheers, everyone. You take a shot, and then you just look around for that one person that looks like they were poisoned.
    116:28
    It's the rest of your life, man. Drinks are... And just a quick editor side note, here's what people are saying about Malort. Oh, the aftertaste is absolutely putrid. Oh, my God, Seth, that's abhorrent. That's abhorrent. Seth, that's abhorrent. Oh, my God, that's disgusting. That is utterly foul. Oh, that's vile. They should call it malortal. This is literally awful. It's disgusting.
    116:54
    I don't want to see or touch that stuff ever again in my entire life. I think I'm out. If you Google malort face, a lot of people have done art installations or recorded videos of people's first reaction to this. It is unreal how disgusting it is. But the more you drink, the less it tastes disgusting, but it's still disgusting. It's like anything else you're drinking. Yeah, the more you drink, the less you hurt. It's M-A-L-O-R-T, right? Yeah, I think there's an umlaut above O, but I don't think that matters. I don't know how to get one of those on my keyboard. So jumping back to streaming, so the interaction with the people that you have on Twitch is one of the best parts of your stream. So people complain about having to look at the LCD when they play a normal pinball game, but how freaking hard was it to learn how to read the chat and actively play pinball at the same time? That's like the ultimate distraction. Yeah, so that was something that I've developed a bit of a superpower there is out of the corner of my eye, I can read chat while I'm focusing on a game of pinball. But there's also something to be said about how I sort of trained my brain to know, like, I'm going to make the shot to a ramp. And as it's about to enter the ramp and I can see that it's going to go up there, I can turn my head and read chat because I know this just bought me like three or four seconds. Wow. It has to go up, come around the habit trail, and then go on its way. If I could trap a ball, any time I could trap a ball, I'm looking over to interact with what's going on. On games like Elvira, if I know there's a super comfortable shot, I can make that shot without even looking at the game, so I can keep reading straight up the ramp into the house. I just know if I drop the flipper and give it a second, it's going to go right up to where it's got to go. That's cool, man. You're looking at pinball differently than anyone else, because you're thinking about how long each shot takes to get back to the flipper. Right. Nice. Let's ask the question that everybody wants to know the answer to. what is the origin of the term flippers and butts ladies and gentlemen flippers and butts oh baby yeah that was a thing that just grew over time so um when we first started streaming we got partnered pretty quick and our first emote we were allowed to have we're like what the hell is it gonna be like let's make it a flipper okay so i only had one emote at the time so whenever someone would subscribe i'd be like hey get your flippers up you know like it's our only emote so let's do that if it was a freaking eyeball i would have said you know eyeballs up so flippers up and then stern was kind enough to send us a new inbox at the time when it came out wwf wwe what uh i don't know what it is it e or f now i don't i don't know it's e now but i don't know what the game the russell mania game so we unboxed it and i was like we got a cool surprise for you had a bunch of people there and as we were streaming it um we got a whole bunch of subscriptions and it unlocked a new emote slot and we're like god what are we going to put in there what are we going to put in there and it came to us when we were playing the game the extra ball animation on WrestleMania is two butts that come in from either side of the DMD and collide with each other.
    119:49
    And when the butts pull apart, it says extra ball, right? And we're like, this is it. We gotta have a butt. And we made a butt emote. Since it was our only two emotes, we're like, flippers and butts. Get them up there. It wasn't just me being weird and being like, blah, blah, blah. It just created itself. It's such a random two things to put together, but that makes perfect sense the way you described it. Wasn't there some controversy over the first butt icon? Oh, yeah. So there became an oversaturation of people putting butt emoticons on Twitch. Like too many people were creating butt emotes for their own channels.
    120:26
    And Twitch was like, yeah, Twitch was like, this is against TOS. You're making the platform too dirty. I don't even know what their explanation was. So they deleted and banned all butt emotes. They're like, you can't have any. Can't have any at all. And we're like, what the frick are we going to do? Like, this was our thing. And we would still say slippers and butts, but it was an empty gesture, you know, because they couldn't put the butts up. So I forget what we replaced it with. I think it was the pop bumper. That's the heart that I have for an emote. Got it. And then over time, enough people complained. They're like, fine, you can have your butts back. But I was like, Eric just occupied this spot with something else. Can you hook me up so they give me another spot? I can put my butt back on the platform. and, you know, the rest is history. A hard thought, man.
    121:12
    Since we're on the topic of such things, and I've heard this story, and it's just so Jack Danger, the origin of Mar Dude. No. I mean, the short story is, you know, just trying to say my dude, and I've had too much to drink, and it just wouldn't form. It wouldn't form.
    121:31
    That's a lot of booze. They might have Mar. Yeah. Thanks for the sub, Marty. Marty? Thanks for the sub, Marty. There's always some dick there that just shines a spotlight on it and makes me know there's an emoticon.
    121:44
    Clips were the best and worst thing to happen to Twitch. All right. Well, your dead clip crew wants to know, who is your second favorite pinball streamer? My second? Oh, I bet Owl Anonymous asked that question. They didn't specify. They said it's a group effort. So all of these are. Owl Anonymous asked that question to the Owl Anonymous. Oh, nice. All right. Nice. I'm just laughing because I'm assuming they're asking who's your second favorite pinball streamer because the first one is yourself. Is that a joke?
    122:13
    My favorite is me. Well, one of the perks of being the most well-known streamer is that companies ask you to be directly involved in their new games in some way. You've been the first person to stream a lot of titles from different companies. What is the ratio of awesome and fun versus stressful when you're having to present a new game to the world? I go into it. So the very first time we ever live streamed a reveal was at Expo when Walking Dead came out. And that was pure happenstance. Like, I helped Jody move something. And he's like, hey, you're that podcast guy. You want to come do this? And at the time, my gear was, like, still duct taped to poles and stuff. And that was very nerve wracking. And honestly, there's nerves every time I go into it, and especially because every designer wants to show their game a little differently, and every programmer wants to show their game a little differently. So, you know, Dwight likes to go heavily over the rules. More recently, Elwynn just wanted to, like, have a party vibe with Avengers, which, you know, I think we nailed. We just had some beers and played some pinball. Oh, sorry. But the problem with doing those reveals is my brain is, like, I can't interact with chat. and they're sort of like my security blanket, you know, because I can't sit there and talk to them the whole time. So really my brain is just on making sure all the gear is working, and if there's one tiny hiccup, which there typically is, like it's all I can frickin' think about, and, you know, it's hard to have fun when I'm just like trying to go through all this technical crap and make sure everything's working. It's like having a party at your house, right? It's hard to relax. But, like, how much prep time do you get before these reveals? Do you usually, you know, have a plan on how to present the game that you've worked on with the people who are running it? Or is it sometimes just let's have fun and see what happens? So we'll schedule it probably a week before we're ready to show it. And not too much thought goes into how I want to present it outside of what I'm being told they want to show. So I will show up, if my broadcast goes live at 6, I'll show up at 1. It doesn't take that long to set up, but I need to go to every single person that wants to be part of this and be like, what are you trying to show? What do you want to convey? What do we want to say? Especially now with COVID, getting all the Zoom crap set up, making sure we're all staying away from each other, but still trying to play pinball. Every game's different, especially like going to stream an American game or a spooky game. Since their internals are different, I like to go a lot earlier so I can work out all of the technical bugs outside of just like how do you want this game to be perceived when we're showing it off. So it's different every single time. It's a little nerve-wracking every single time, but it's a lot of fun. You guys have kind of streamlined it since you first started, and there's a lot of changes that you've made from the first screen that I've watched to the Avengers. I remember it being in the kitchen, you seeing all the microwaves in the back, and now there's a backdrop. It's become smoother. So are you still trying to evolve every one that you do? Oh, absolutely. The first screen we did, the first couple of games were in the factory, and you'd still hear people drilling and hammering. Like go look at the Ghostbusters one we did. It was wild. I was wearing a really tiny hat. I don't know why I was doing that. But yeah we trying to figure out new ways of capturing it new ways of staging everything You know we going to be moving out of the kitchen pretty soon and to cover the kitchen i been green screening or putting backdrops which has worked out pretty well um it just the kitchen is the one place we know is going to be very quiet very well lit we can control who's coming in and out we do have a studio quote unquote like a place to do photo shoots but that is on the factory floor and you will hear like all the game's being built, which is a bit of a distraction. Right. Now, when you were talking about the tiny hat, you had been known especially with Stern to wear some unusual outfits during reveals. Old skate, baby. Yes.
    126:05
    There's been some controversy. Do you remember what was that, Deadpool? That was Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool. The rumors started like a rash throughout the football community that Mr. Danger was stuffing his costume. I put a whole freaking shirt down the front of my pants. That's true, yeah. I popped it up into a ball. It was unnaturally large. There's no way that was me.
    126:31
    That's hilarious. So there you have it. There was a shirt stuck in your pants. Folded into a ball and shoved it down the front of my pants. Everybody lies on the internet.
    126:43
    There's the bald gig. Yeah, that still comes up from time to time. I see some rando will throw that out. Jack, how early do you get access to these games? Are you rolling in the day of to see the game for the first time, or have you been playing it for a few weeks before you actually stream it? So Avengers was the first game that I didn't get to see go from idea to completion because of COVID. I got to see Elwynn put the spinning disc and the Avengers tower on a white wood, and then COVID dropped and I couldn't see anything after that. But I typically get to see all these games from start to finish. Every time I go into CERN, I hop into engineering, you know, snoop around, look at cool stuff that I can't talk to anyone about, and that freaking sucks. Yeah. I know all the secrets of the universe. I'm not allowed to tell anybody. How many NDAs are you under at any given time? All of them? Yeah, every NDA.
    127:37
    Multiple companies, you know, do you just have a blank NDA that you just bring to them and say, hey, you know. I just walk in and say I'm sorry. Going to American to stream Hot Wheels, I got to see their new facility, and their place is decked out. It's awesome what they've got going on in there. I've been to two of Spooky's locations. They have a new place now that I'd like to go check out. I was at the original Jersey Jack facility before they moved a little closer to Elk Grove Village to stream Pirates with Erica out of his office. But, yeah, I get some crazy access to these manufacturing companies, and it's an honor, for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. I tuned into several of the game reveals. You could call me a Jack Danger fan. Aw, baby.
    128:21
    No, I mean, really, call me a Jack Danger fan. I'll never do it. Right now. I don't have fans. They're all friends. I feel weird calling anyone a fan. It makes me cringe a little bit. Well, yeah, so it's a different sort of atmosphere when you've got other people with you and you're revealing a game. You're trying to be entertaining and funny, but at the same time you want to be serious because, you know, you've got business to do. so are there any memorable moments and funny stories through the process of doing all these game reveals that you recall the only thing that sticks out to me as the worst possible thing that could happen during a game reveal was when we were playing Star Wars and we were all playing the game and we're like none of us can blow up this damn Death Star to show what a pull in Elwynn and Elwynn goes through the motions and he hits the last shot and we're like frick yeah he did it and nothing fucking happens and it's because they forgot to plug in the death star this happened live on camera and we're all just looking at each other like what what do we do now we promised this to just we didn't plug it in because we put this game together uh just before the stream and that's now like a call to action with every reveal stream they're like we don't want any death stars like did you look at you know is the spinner working And is this toy ready? Are we good? We don't want any more Death Stars.
    129:44
    So what is your official relationship with Stern now? Are they technically an employee? Are you a consultant? Or are you just a dude that they like to work with? I am their brand ambassador or just their ambassador in general. But I don't work for Stern. I work with them. So we are in some way partners. They support me in what I do. I support them. But also I'm allowed to bounce around and play ball with everybody. So it works out pretty well. Hey, are you the horror banger, buddy? As a streamer, you kind of want that access to be able to try everything. My being able to show off everything is a benefit to Stern, because all pinball is good for all the manufacturers. So knowing that there's a new game out there, we'll get people to go out and find it, and you know what's going to be next to those games? Other pinball machines. So if I go stream a Pirates and people are like, I want to go play Pirates now, there's probably going to be a Stern next to it, or there's going to be a TNA next to it, or there's going to be, you know. So, yeah, my value to pinball is my value to Stern. Nice. And I guess all the other manufacturers as well. Well, in addition to being celebrated as favorite streamer with the Twippies, last year you did something cool in getting favorite homebrew pinball machine, which you did with your dead flip pinball. That was something that you did. You kind of went through the journey of making it and, you know, shared all that with your viewers every step of the way. How was that experience, and where is that game now? That experience was very trying. That's like saying, I want to build my own car. I don't know how to operate a screwdriver, you know? Right. So we made so many mistakes. We learned so many things. And I streamed, I'd say, 99% of it live. The design, the sketching, the roughing it out, the programming, the art, the wiring, everything was streamed. And it was a cool process because I learned so much about pinball in general. and it sort of changed the way that you look at a pinball machine once you know how the internals are working. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but the reason I wanted to do this was, I forget what game came out, someone on a thread or a bunch of people on a thread were bitching. They're like, oh, this game freaking sucks. I'm like, okay, that's fine. And then I went to stream it and some people were like, oh, this game's freaking stupid. Like, you know what? I'm going to show you how to build a pinball machine so when you're done we can fucking shit on it. You know, then you tell me how much this sucks. You're in it for a while there. But, I mean, also I wanted to build a pinball machine. And we didn't spend too much time on any certain part of this process because we wanted to get to the finish line as quick as possible. So, like, the design didn't take very long. The longest part of it all was probably the programming, which sucked so bad. Let's give credit where credit is due. Who would you say is the unsung hero of the dead flip pin? That would be Ed Owens, who helped us with the electronics. that would be George Gomez. There it is. For really, like, put... George Gomez gave me a lot of parts. I was like, I need parts, and he gave me a frickin' box. And then, again, I was like, I need more parts. And they're like, here's a destroyed play field. Just pull some crap off of that. And then there's the folks at Mission Pinball who helped me program this thing and, in fact, created tools to help people program better because I was such a ding-dong about it. They would see me make mistakes that a programmer would never make, but because they would expect new people to come in, they're like, okay, we've got to make this tool because Jack's an idiot, and we've got to help other people do this. Scott Denise helped cut most of our play fields. This was a real team effort to put this thing together over the years, or over the year, I guess. It's really cool, man. Where is it now? Do you still have it? Yeah, it's sitting right behind me, and the reason no one's seen anything about it is because bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. you know what you know yes yeah so I'll just leave it I'll leave it there interesting very very cool well so when you were first starting that you you had a bunch of different themes that you were thinking of and you know people were trying to help you come up with ideas and one of them was for Beetlejuice so I know a guy who might be interested in helping you make that a reality do you think you'd ever work on that in the future uh oh uh zombie yeti yeah his So something that we do on the broadcast, if I'm just sort of like not into playing pinball, is we'll open up Photoshop and I'll ask my chat, like, what's a good theme? Let's figure out how to build a Power Ranger pinball machine. And we'll go through all the rules and then we'll start sketching up what a play field would look like. And I would love to make a Beetlejuice machine. I think that theme is, like, phenomenal. The amount of cool interaction and toys you could put on something like that would be just through the roof. Franchi was actually in chat when we created a monster cereal pinball machine. Oh, my God. That's like a dream come true. I fed him the theme. I'm like, we need a theme, monster cereal. And created a pretty wild layout for that thing, too. All these games in a form that I could probably just go build all these games right now, but we built it together as a community in chat. And it's a lot of fun getting that help from folks. I don't know if I was ever able to design a production pinball machine that I'd be allowed to, you know, what's it called when you get a bunch of people to chip in in something? Crowdsource. But that would be pretty cool to get all the feedback from people as it's being developed. So you did some really cool stuff in that game that you made. And I know you've also thought of other fresh ideas like the outling spinner and a super unique kickback that involves a pop-up post in the drain that allows the ball to kind of hop over onto the right flipper. Would you ever want to design your own pinball game for real, like with a company for Stern, if they were like, hey, you know, we'll give you the money, go for it. Is that a dream for you? I would absolutely love to do that. I mean, I spent enough of my time, like, daydreaming, but with the actual tools now, because I know how to, like, produce a pinball machine. I'm sitting on, like, four or five different layouts right now, just, like, ready to go. Yeah, I'd absolutely love to make a pinball machine for whoever will take me. Would you want to do it like a big-name title, or would you want to start small and do something boutique for your fans? Do you want to just go big from out of the gate? Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. If Stern or Spooky or someone came to me and were like, Jack, we want you to make a pinball machine, the theme is, I'd be like, yes.
    136:01
    Is it about slurpees? I don't give a shit. Let's make this game. I don't care. I'll make it fun. Let's do this. Fruit bath. Yeah, fruit bath. Well, something else you worked on that's pretty unique, you partnered up to bring a Batman 66 game online so that it can be played by people over the Internet across the world. Yeah, right. Kind of like a marriage between virtual and physical pinball, which is really cool. So do you think you would ever work on something like that in a bigger scale, like an entire arcade that could be played virtually? That would be pretty wild. Those gentlemen contacted me because they were creating a whole platform around playing physical items digitally. And so I went out there, we chatted, I filmed a commercial with them, we did all sorts of cool stuff. And they accredited me with coming up with this idea because several years ago, a buddy of mine, Dan Thompson, and I created this thing where we can hook up a Raspberry Pi to any pinball machine, and whenever someone would say left in the chat, it would flip the left flipper. Say right, it would flip the right flipper. And if they said start, it would hit the start button, but actually it would hit the lock bar button on the lock bar. So what the action button does is not only does it start a new game, but when you hit it, it launches the ball. So that was like two birds with one stone there, so they could launch a new ball with that. And it sucked.
    137:22
    It almost destroyed this Terminator 2 we hooked it up to because it's just like hundreds of people spamming left and right, and we were burning the coils out on this damn thing. And through several different iterations, we got it in a place where I was given this thing called a can controller from Miller Lite. It's a can of Miller Lite with a Bluetooth, like, Nintendo-looking controller on it, and I was able to control the pinball machine with this thing. And we did a sponsor stream with Miller Lite. I played pinball with a can of beer. Wouldn't have been the first time.
    137:51
    Wingo! But, yeah, the folks that did the Batman 66 thing, they created, like, a package that they could send to people, and you could set up your own game on their platform. So theoretically, I could hook that whole thing up to every single pinball machine in here and have folks playing my games. The one that I have personally that we made, I can let people play games, but I have to let them or else they're going to freaking destroy my pinball machine. Right. That would be my fear. That's cool, though. That's cool tech. All right. So let's jump over to another Deadflip Crew question. Do you have a favorite moment from in real life? So I'm guessing what they mean is meetups or other moments that aren't necessarily meant for the stream. My IRL streams. Yeah. That's also a tough one because they're always awkward and weird. You have to really put on a brave face when you're walking down the street holding a selfie stick because you will hear the worst of the worst stuff thrown at you because you're walking around with a selfie stick recording yourself. What are you going to do?
    138:53
    Yeah, we've encountered a lot of strange folks. But honestly, I think my favorite IRL streams, plural, is every year. I set up a broadcast on my phone. It's called Tenpenny across the street from ReplayFX, and we have the dead flip meet up there, and it's the one time I get to see all of my good friends in person. I'm not just talking to my phone. I'm getting to talk to these people in real life and sharing drinks and jokes and joking about crap that happens on stream, but the real person is there, not red keg. He's actually sitting in front of me, and we get to throw drinks at each other. I think my favorite was the mysterious woman of the river. Do you remember her? That was wild, dude, because there was no reason for her to be down there. I was standing next to the WMS building, like the old Williams facility, and I'm just recording myself, and she must have been down there for like an hour. I don't know what was going on, but behind us was like the cement block and then a little tiny path to like go jump into the river, which you're not allowed to go to. The fall would have been intense. And this lady comes out of nowhere. We're like, where the hell did you come from? She's like, oh, there's a path down there. And then she just disappears into the woods. We're like, oh, okay, that's weird. And then we look in front of us, and there's a cop watching us. And I have a flask in my hand. We're just going to say that there's a Monster Energy drink in the flask. And we're like, okay, we've got to move. So I'm like, cool, we'll take this secret path she's talking about. I take two steps down there and almost fall to my death. There was no freaking path down there. She was probably a freaking succubus demon. I'm trying to get you to kill myself.
    140:28
    The little lady of the river. Right. So, awkwardly, I have to come back up out of this thing that the cop probably knows there's nothing back there. And just sort of like, he still walks towards me. What were you going down there and stashing? Well, I was trying to hide from you and stash all my drugs. And then, yeah, that was very awkward. All those old baseball histories.
    140:50
    That's cool, though, man. So, what is your favorite karaoke song that you've sung on stream? Oh, no. So, now they're referring to a specific song that I was doing an IRL stream walking around L.A. And I found a karaoke booth. It's one you put like five bucks in. You sing a song and it records a CD for you. Okay. Sorry, I just burped. So, it records a CD for you. And I'm in this booth and I'm like, what should we sing? And I pick a song that is so out of my range. What's that song? He's a Magic Man. What is that song? Magic Man by Heart? Yeah. So, it was a Heart song, Magic Man. And boy, could I not sing that song. I stuck to it. I sang the whole freaking thing. I recorded it on CD. And forever they had clips of me trying to hit these notes that it just sounded like I was being, like, poked in the ass with a hot prodding iron. It just did not work. And that CD is in a vault in a safe, bare-footed backyard, and we'll never see the light of day. Well, we'll have to put a two-sided single out of yours and mine because I did the same thing and I did Roxanne by the police. Oh, no. Back when I could hit those high falsetto notes, I can't now. Right, I was looking at it and I was like, I think I know the words to this. Yeah, no one knows. It's one thing. Actually being able to sing the damn song is completely different anyway. Well, you know, another one of the awesome things that you do is you are the preacher who spreads the gospel of pinball. And, you know, a lot of people think, a lot of pinball people are kind of misconstrued as to what they think will expand the audience for pinball like some podcasters think that their podcast is helping when it's not like i do podcasts myself i know this isn't helping spread the joy of pinball it's catering to that community that's already there so my question to you is what do you think is the best way to get to the masses that are not pinball fans and help spread the joy and bring people in so it's kind of like how i started growing the viewership on my channel, right? It's reaching outside of the community. You could preach to the choir all day, but that's not going to bring new people in. So it's like holding events in public spaces that are open to everybody. Me bringing pinball to TwitchCon every year that there's been a TwitchCon has been such a huge hit. Like after the first year I did it, they're like, we're getting so many people saying this has to come back next year. And I'd say the first two years, everyone that showed up, 90% of them, didn't know what a pinball machine was. Just coming up with those? Yeah, exactly. Or like, wow, what is this? Like, oh, there's a Deadpool ping pong machine. And there's like, yeah, you know, and this is how I make money. You hit on it, though. That's the key, though. The key is in order to spread the joy of pinball, you have to get people to play it. You can't talk about it. No one's going to care if you talk about how awesome pinball is because you could talk about how great Bon Jovi is. No one's going to give a shit either. it's how you get pinball into people's hands. Yeah, it's getting it out there to people that otherwise wouldn't know to look for it. And I think that's the key is people don't know that they love pinball until you show them that they love pinball. And so you've got to get that in front of them somehow. That's cool. I mean, one of the things that you did recently was the Stern Showdown, and that was probably the closest that anyone has come to making a pinball tournament interesting and understandable for non-pinheads, people who just would tune in and see that. You had short, quick head-to-head challenges, uncomplicated objectives, flashy ESPN animations. So what was that like to be involved in, and do you think you're going to do more of those in the future? Yeah, so everyone's tried to do the put pinball on TV thing, and it's tough because even if I come into a tournament that's just being played and there's a game that I've never seen before, I don't know what the frick's going on. Now imagine if you've never seen a pinball machine before. You're going to absolutely not know what's going on. Right. And even if they had explained the rules five minutes ago, well, I just came in. Are you going to keep explaining the rules, you know? So heads up is the best way to make this digestible because you're just saying, like, there's one thing on this game. Look at that. The first person to hit it is going to win. That is the easiest way to boil this down to make people understand what's going on. If they want to understand the whole, like, rules and points thing on the back end, that's for them to go figure out on their own. You can watch tutorials and stuff. But for anyone just jumping in, they're quick, they're fast. It's like they're trying to turn this light green. Who's going to do it first? You know, anyone can understand that. It's like put the bag in the hole. Easy. You know, same with pinball. Put the ball in the hole. So, yeah, heads up to the future for, like, getting this as eSporty as possible. And it was a lot of fun to work on this. Tim Sexton and I sat here socially distant on a green screen. Emoto edited the whole thing. and we just had everyone sort of play a series of games and then we had a randomizer figure all that stuff out. And, yeah, it was a blast. I think that's about as close as we can get it. Hopefully there's other people that have some cooler ideas, but we're definitely going to be pushing forward with more tournaments very soon. Is it just me or does Build-A-Bear need to make a Tim Sexton kit? Like a little cuddly Tim Sexton Build-A-Bear. Him in his suit? He's such a little babe. I love that guy.
    146:03
    No, I think you guys did a great job. And even if you could do that for each game that comes out, I know that's a ton of work. But, I mean, to highlight that one game, it's almost like part of the marketing for that pinball machine and letting the non-pinheads or pinheads who are into competitive pinball know more about the game. I think that's really cool. Heck, yeah. There's a lot more coming. A lot more coming. Speaking of competitive pinball, you're a damn good pinball player yourself. False. You've been in a lot of tournaments according to your IFPA profile. It can't be that big. That's what she said. All right. Thanks, Frank. Is competitive pinball a passion for you, or is it more of a play-when-you-can situation? So when I first got into pinball eight years ago, and pinball didn't mean nothing to me until about eight years ago. I got trained by the best. Zach Sharp took me under his wing and showed me how to play pinball. Zach Sharp has wings? Yeah. He's like, who's that eunuch angel?
    146:59
    Loki or something? Yeah, something. I don't freaking know. I was very, very into the competitive scene. I wanted to, much like any hobby that I get into, I want to be the best that I possibly can be. And right around the time that myself and three of my good buds from the studio got into pinball, that's when the Chicago Pinball League started. And we were playing pinball. We were really good at like riffing off each other and no one was going on. And we're like, we're going to start a team and playing this very first one. And we needed to pick a team name. And we went through like maybe 40 different names. And at the very end of this, I still have the document on my phone. At the very end of the list was dead flip. And we're like, we'll just choose that. Who cares? Like, whatever. So we called ourselves dead flip. I designed the flipper logo. We made four hoodies and we rolled to the first tournament. We needed five players on our roster, but we only had the four of us. So I wrote in Zach Sharp's name as an alternate. I didn't even ask him. I just, it was like Zach Sharp. He didn't have to play, but we had to have five. So we played the first tournament. We kicked some butt and we actually went undefeated that entire season. won the trophy and we're like hell yeah you know with like pinball and the way we did that was we treated it like money ball we're like okay so brad's really good at the ems and nick's really good at games that have three flippers and stuff and so whenever someone would pick a game we'd be like all right brad let me check the chart all right you're the one up you're gonna go play this all right you know this so and it worked phenomenally and uh so we would travel to as many tournaments as possible pinberg papa we did all of that stuff but the second streaming became a very important part of my day-to-day and now my job. Every pinball tournament that happens, happens at the exact same time that I need to go live. So I had to quickly make the distinction of, like, am I going to broadcast tonight or am I going to go play in this tournament? And as I created a career around this, it became I have to stream. Not have to stream, I want to stream. But as often as I could, I would bring my gear to places to stream the tournaments. But yeah, I don't play in as much competition now because I'm doing the stream full-time. But, I mean, you've done really well. Like in Pinberg in 2018, you did very well. I think you were over 100 overall, and there's 1,000 of the best in that tournament. So, like, you play pinball for five hours a day, you know, every week. And so at some point you've got to – do you think you've hit a ceiling, or do you think you are just getting better and better and gunning for Keith Allen?
    149:15
    Keith's got nothing on me. But I definitely recognize if I don't play a pinball machine for a while because I know, like, what I have trouble hitting and stuff, Like we'll take turtles, for instance. I suck at that left ramp on that game. I don't know why. It's not a hard ramp. It's just my brain doesn't like it. I didn't play it for like three weeks and then I came back to it and I was nailing all the shots perfectly. Like I can see certain times where I know that I'm recognizing that I'm getting better. But on stream, I'm not focusing on playing, if that makes sense. Like I'm just trying to slip and have fun. If the Internet's like, just hit that damn shot, I'll get low, I'll look at the shot, and I can nail it on the fly. But it's when I'm just goofing around. You know, I guess I don't compete because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by winning everything. That's right. Yep, you're the best.
    150:01
    Nice. I want to give everyone a sporting chance and, you know. Yeah, have fun. Have fun playing pinball, Internet. I don't want to be there to make anyone feel bad. Well, some great players have said that you can only go so far with the whole concept of spray and pray before you have to dive heavily into rules and get that knowledge to get an edge in tournaments. So how much time have you spent going over rules, or do you just spray and pray? I just go for it and try to, if something exciting happens on the screen, I'm like, okay, well, I'll just keep shooting that. Again, I play to see cool stuff happen instead of scores. But the cool thing about only shooting to progress the story in a game is the deeper you go into the story, points come along with that. So if all you're doing is focusing on points, you're probably shooting, like, shots over and over and over again. Like, that's dangerous. But if you're trying to progress the story, a lot of games have wizard modes that are just, like, the points you get there are heaps stronger than anything you could do, like, before that. A great example is Guardians of the Galaxy. Playing all the modes, you could sit there and play one mode and, like, get all this crap. But if you get to, like, Immolation Initiative, which is like the wizard mode before the wizard mode, if you just play that wizard mode, you're going to have billions upon billions upon billions, where it's like the wizard mode, the main wizard mode, is not even close to that financially. I call points money sometimes. I'm sorry. But, yeah. I haven't gotten to that yet.
    151:29
    Oh, Frenchie. Well, I got a tutorial for you, buddy. Nice. All right, man. So what is your dream pinball job? Obviously, you've got a freaking amazing job with what you do, but with everything you've done in the past, if you could pare away or add anything into those things, where would you be? If it's a dream pinball job and I'm staying in pinball, it would be a designer. Designing pinball machines. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you've got so much going on, so many irons on the fire, and I've often heard you talking and, you know, taking phone calls on your stream, and you're like, just a minute, and, you know, you slip away. So we know a lot of things are going on. Is there anything you can talk about that's coming up next for Jack Danger? Yeah, so Gomez and I are working on a new video series where we're going to show you everything it takes from Gomez's perspective to create a pinball machine. Maybe not to fruition, but he's going to show you what it takes to prototype a ramp or getting an orbit to feel good or any of that type of stuff. We're going to record a whole series of videos sort of just showing his approach to knocking out a title, how he goes about making a pinball machine. Is he wanting to do this because there needs to be a bigger pool of pinball designers out there because some of these older guys are going to be retiring soon? That's definitely my driving force behind it. I want to remove as much of the barriers as possible to get more people creating their own games. Because once you've created a game, that is the best resume you could possibly have to getting a job at a pinball company. One, it shows that you have the dedication and the know-how to do it. and two, depending on the company, they might just outright buy your design and turn that into a game. Oh, Keith Owen. Exactly. I don't know what his deal was with Stern, but they definitely used Archer to create Iron Maiden. And I really wish that they would have kept it at Archer, damn it. A lot of people say that, yeah. So that brings us to the part of the show that Franchi has been waiting for. I'm going to pass the mic over to him so that he can present you with his epic, but also amazingly uncomfortable questions. Here we go. well now this first one i'm just saying wait what you have really talked about this in your streams now i don't know if alcohol had a you know any play in it but i figure you know since you've openly talked about it maybe you know maybe you want to discuss it a bit maybe it'll open up some options for you but you have many times alluded to the fact that you and your wife we're not talking about this it's not is that just a funny joke it's a funny joke francy it's just a funny joke i'm winking it's a funny joke all right moving on we'll move on to the next one it would appear between pinball manufacturers dropping off games at no charge to free t-shirts and hats from podcasters and pinball makers you're doing pretty well. What percentage of life expenses do you actually pay for?
    154:28
    I'll tell you most, if not all of the money that I make from Twitch goes into affording the studio I'm in, the electricity, the stream pays for the stream is how that works. And then I have my lovely wife who is a grade school teacher who makes a teacher's salary. So we're, we're only doing just okay, but we're having fun and that's all that freaking matters. Two more of these, buddy. Just bear with us.
    154:53
    French is coming hard. We know that danger, everybody knows that danger is not your God-given last name. No, it's my Christian birth name. No, I know what your last name is. I can share it here. You want me to tell you? I'll just beep it out. Because it's danger, you troll. No, I can beep it out. No, when I came up there and saw you last time, what was it, February? When we went to Logan Hardware? You went alive, but you said it was... Uh-huh. Is that a lie? That was a freaking lie, bro. Oh, that's so funny. You suck. I've been told by many people that think they know what your, quote, real last name is, what it is. I think a couple of people at Pimberg told me what they thought it was. Is it truly danger legally? Yeah. Here's what I want you to do. Call up, yeah, who writes my paychecks? Twitch does, so that doesn't really help. Call up Stern and ask them what my real last name is. Okay, so you had to change. But actually, the question wasn't what is it? The question is, how did you come up with danger? Why danger? I was born Jack Danger Danger. It's French. It's a family name. It means one who moisturizes.
    156:02
    We're going to need to see the birth certificate on this one. I'm sorry, Jack. Yeah, I don't want a driver's license. I want a birth certificate.
    156:09
    Jack Crumple Cake or something like that. Jack Crumple Cakes. I kind of like that, actually. Crumple. What's a crumple cake? Anyway, okay. It's the last one. It's the last uncomfortable question. You survived. We're going to move on to the last set of the Dead Flip fan questions. Question number one. You've streamed with some big names like Elvira, Jeffrey Starr, Gary Stern. They want to know who is your favorite guest host of all time. That list went downhill, Ted. Jeffrey Starr, Gary Stern.
    156:39
    On stream. Ed Robertson was fun to play with. Definitely. It wasn't really streamed, but it was recorded for an article. It was playing pinball with Andrew WK. It was really awesome. That's cool. He's a huge pinhead. God, who else am I streaming? Frick, I don't know. I'll tell you this. I have a terrible memory, and I bring it up on stream all the time. So I have trouble remembering any of this crap.
    157:04
    Gary's turn. It's all recorded for posterity, man. So if you ever forget, just go back and watch. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but if you ever get a chance to play pinball with Andrew WK, that guy is the most humble and adorable human being you'll ever meet in your life. That's cool, man. Yeah, he seems like a good dude. One of your fans would like to know, what's with the ladder? Oh, laddies. So I got this ladder that I've over-sexualized over the years.
    157:32
    Just, you know, when you're imbibing and there's a ladder there, you know, you just do ladder stuff, bro. And I've brought this ladder to every studio I've ever owned. I mean, it's actually a pretty toxic relationship. I don't know why I have this thing. The last question on here was my favorite, and it was, how dare you? Yeah, exactly. And I'm guessing it's for mimosas. I don't know, man. It was awful. He reached out to me. We had, like, a group chat, and he said it was the most fun he's had in a long time. Oh, that's awesome. Because they were just all sharing stories and coming up with funny questions for you. So it was a group effort. I love it. I love it. The community is, the pinball community is so good. And to narrow it down more, the like community that shows up to stream every single night, they're just the nicest human beings on the planet. And they're all very inviting when new people come in. They're also helping new people understand what's going on in both pinball or just in general hanging out. So props to everyone that tunes in, helps out and you know, you're the community, not me. And the pinball community would be a lot worse if it not for Mr. Jack Danger. So thanks for coming on and spending some time with us, buddy. Absolutely, man. It was ridiculously awesome having you, man. You've helped to make our hobby so much more mainstream, brought us thousands of hours of entertainment on Twitch. So, you know, thanks for hanging with us and for everything you do for pinball in general. Well, no, thanks for having me on. It's been an honor, guys. We'll have some drinks soon. Hell yeah. Do you want to share all your contacts and where you can be found for everybody? Oh, yeah. My phone number is 588-2300-EMPIRE.
    159:06
    Yeah, just if you type in deadflip on any social media, anything, you'll find me. Cool. There you go. It's as easy as that. Yeah, buddy. Thanks for coming on. And to the loser kids.
    159:16
    Oh, don't rub it in. I've been dodging both of you guys for so long, and I don't know how you got a hold of me first. Because I told you I'd help you out with T-shirt designs. Yeah, that's fair. Oh, damn it. I just, I just, I did you shit.
    159:34
    Bribe me. Lose a kid. I'm coming, bro. Nice. All right. Hey man. Well, thank you so much. Uh, appreciate you taking your time out of your day, man. And, uh, I can't wait to see your stream tomorrow. Heck yeah. Well, uh, thanks for, thanks for watching. Thanks for having me. Right on broski. I love you. Goodbye. All right. See you Jack. See ya. Can you, or do you write off alcohol as a business expense on your taxes?
    159:57
    Guys, you're making me sound like a freaking alcoholic. Well, come on. You should be sponsored by fucking Greenhouse Channels.
    160:08
    And that was Mr. Jack Danger, and that's going to wrap up another episode. Christian, I've got to tell you, I think with all of these interviews that we're getting, I'd say that we are Twippy-worthy, wouldn't you? Twippy-bound, man, 100%. This show gets the interviews. That's what the people want. That's what we're giving them. Yes, exactly. You get to hear from all the people that you love. We don't just sit here and talk about flimsy rumors. and shit on playfields, and flash cash on our Facebook page. Let me go get some Louis Trey. I'll be right back. Anyway, yeah, so before we go, we have to pass on plans for the super awesome pinball tailgate bash that's coming next September. The first thing we have is a date correction. Christian said she said the wrong one. I'll give you the chance to say the right one, even though it wasn't your fault. I need to call you out, my friend. You told me the date. I wrote it down. I read it off. It was the wrong date. So I will correct it. Shout out to Phil Irie, who reached out to us on superawesomepinball at gmail.com and told us that our date was a Monday, and he thought that was really weird. So we are definitely not having it on a Monday. It is September 25th, 2021, not October 25th. Yes, September 25th, probably slightly better weather. But the reason why I'm passing on this information is because, believe it or not, Chris and Melissa have been asking me for a logo. And I'm like, a logo? This thing's like a year away. and they're hot on this thing. They are making plans, let me tell you. This thing is going to be a lot bigger and better. They've got some huge plans, including some special musical entertainment. And let's just say there's potentially going to be a dunk tank with someone that you'd really like to dunk.
    161:45
    It's going to be a good time. The first one was great, and I think the sequel is going to be even better. They do it right at Coin Taker when they throw a party. And this party, they're going to have a whole year to plan, so it's going to be off the hook. You guys have got to go. Yep, so make your plans for September 25th. It's Coin Taker, and it's in the middle of Pennsylvania. Sunbury, Pennsylvania. Right in the middle of Pennsylvania, so make the trip. Hell, we had a guy come from Texas in the last one, so come from miles around and come have a good time with us. We'll be giving you the details as those develop over the next 11 months.
    162:17
    And also, we didn't tease this at the beginning, but since you stuck around, special bonus, we're going to do a Halloween contest. All right, so Franchi is going to play a movie clip, And then you're going to hear it. If you know the answer, email us at superawesomepinball at gmail.com. Let us know your guess. And if you're right and you're the first person to guess, we're going to send you an awesome swag bag. Franchi, what are they going to get? Well, I'm not going to tell. Oh, what's in the box? But we will show pictures on our Facebook page. And the deadline is October 6th. So you're going to have about a week and a half to get your answer in. It's going to be a dialogue clip from a horror movie. I can say that much. And we're working on the prizes right now. we're trying to make it the best prize pack we can make it so we can't really say exactly what's all included but it's going to be cool and it will be revealed on our facebook page so keep checking there and you'll see what you're playing for and here is your spooky movie clip john you never paid any attention I love watching you get to him! Alright, so we want to thank Charlie from Spooky for joining us. That was a lot of fun. And also, International Pinball Sensation, the one and only Jack Danger. We definitely have a blast with this episode as we do with every episode. So thanks guys for coming out. What a great episode. Thank you guys so much for showing some love and coming on our show. Speaking of showing love, send us some Christmas cards. Christmas is coming up. Oh yeah, we'd love that. So when Christmas rolls around, please send us your Christmas cards to superawesome6600allenroad, A-L-L-E-N, and then that is at Allen Park, Michigan, 48101. Thanks for listening, guys. Another awesome episode. Twippy voting is coming up soon, so don't forget to vote for us because we deserve it, because we're the most handsome podcast, I believe.
    164:17
    Yes. Please vote for us in the Twippies because Franchi really needs another Twippy on his mantle. And I want Franchi to have another Twippy on his mantle. I was going to give it to you. You give the pinball community a lot. I think it's time for the pinball community to, you know, pay you back a little bit. Well, you don't give in order to. It's not like, here, I'm giving you this in hopes that I'll receive in some way. It sort of takes the shine off the giving. But anyway, thanks for tuning in, guys, and we will see you in another couple of weeks with another stellar episode. Happy Halloween. Happy haunting.
    164:46
    See you next time. Love you. Happy Halloween, everybody. See you on the next episode. If you'd like to drop us a line or ask a question, we can be reached at superawesomepinball at gmail.com. Questions or comments may be read on the air. The original content of this podcast is copyright 2020 Asshat Radio Productions.
    165:32
    The commentary and opinions shared by the cast and guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the sponsors, Cointaker, Chicago Gaming Company, and Back Valley Creations. Their sponsorships of this show only serve to add to their continuing support of the pinball community. Cause we're gonna be amazing! I'm gonna take their attention But what you and me make this daily Is about to be legendary Okay, okay, show's over, folks. Bye-bye. Hey, your fucking chalupa sucks, dude!
    166:08
    Now it's time for some funny bloopers! On today's show, we have an interview with pinball streaming sensation God damn phone. Oh, that's you. That was me. Why didn't you silence your phone, dude? You gotta silence your phone.
    166:24
    There's our blooper for this. Yeah, exactly. Oh, damn it, man. I don't like wearing boxer briefs on this chair because it's a leather chair. And I don't have the long boxer briefs that kind of go down to your knee or the shorter ones. So there's about three inches of my thigh that sits on the chair and it sticks. it's like you gotta get capri capri you gotta get capri pants you don't expect st capris wouldn't i i believe so also you lifting the play field for an em game versus the solid state is a completely different ball there's so much shit going on are you all right i don't think that americans would find that funny no it's not a joke are you not entertained are you not entertained Is this not why you're here?
    167:20
    It was very satisfying.