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Episode 262: Alex Ward

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·37m 41s·analyzed·Jun 11, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Alex Ward on building Knoxville's pinball scene and community engagement.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Alex Ward about his role in building the competitive pinball scene in Knoxville, Tennessee, and his current life in Georgia. The conversation covers how Ward grew the Knoxville scene from scratch through Token Game Tavern, the importance of community and accessible free play, tournament preparation strategies, his IT background applied to pinball machine repair, and broader discussions about parenting during COVID-19, personal health improvements, and social justice following George Floyd's murder.

Key Claims

  • Ward discovered Token Game Tavern by accident while looking for a home improvement store, found it had just opened weeks before, and this became the foundation for Knoxville's competitive scene.

    high confidence · Direct narrative account from Alex Ward about the origin of the Knoxville scene

  • The first unsanctioned Knoxville tournament attracted about 30 people on a Tuesday night, and the scene grew significantly from there with free play incentives on Tuesdays and Sundays.

    high confidence · Alex Ward describing early tournament attendance and growth mechanics

  • Ward has an IT/electrical engineering background that transfers to pinball machine troubleshooting and repair work.

    high confidence · Ward explaining his educational background and how it applies to pinball maintenance

  • For tournament preparation, Ward adjusts his home machines by turning off extra balls, tightening tilt, and removing rubbers from posts to simulate tournament conditions.

    high confidence · Direct statement about Ward's tournament preparation strategy

  • During COVID-19 lockdown (as of recording date), Ward has been adding extra balls back to machines to allow completion of wizard modes he's never reached.

    high confidence · Ward discussing recent changes to his machine settings during home isolation

  • Tennessee has a larger contingent of women competitive pinball players than expected, and they felt comfortable playing at Knoxville tournaments without harassment issues.

    high confidence · Ward's observation about women's participation in Knoxville competitive scene

  • Ward lost 40 pounds during COVID-19 lockdown period, going from 315 to 275 pounds through better eating, sleep, and outdoor activity with his son.

    high confidence · Direct statement by Ward about weight loss during lockdown

  • Pinvasion tournament (hosted by Brian at Portal Arcade in Georgia) adjusts machines with tighter tilts, removed rubbers, and lightning flippers to create more challenging competitive conditions.

Notable Quotes

  • “I just thought I'd go take a look inside. I opened the door, and I found out that they had just opened a month before, or a few weeks before I moved to Knoxville... And a week later, I came back, and the rest is history from there.”

    Alex Ward @ early in episode — Origin story of how Token Game Tavern became the foundation for Knoxville's pinball scene

  • “With that incentive, it helped people relax and learn the game of pinball without any pressure. And what a great introduction, too, because you want to fork over a lot of money to a hobby that you may or may not enjoy when it's free.”

    Jeff Teolis / Alex Ward exchange @ mid-episode — Core insight into barrier-to-entry strategy for growing local scenes through free play

  • “It's about seeing all your friends from all over the world. That's it. I don't ever care really how I do in the tournament.”

    Alex Ward @ discussing Pinberg tournament — Philosophy about competitive pinball events prioritizing community over competitive outcomes

  • “Pinball machines became my cars, looking under the hood and seeing what's wrong and finding out there's a lot of wealth of information out there to help you fix a machine.”

    Alex Ward @ discussing machine repair — Analogy explaining how IT/electrical background translates to pinball maintenance

  • “Silence is not acceptable... it certainly takes empathy, education, and compassion.”

    Alex Ward @ discussing George Floyd and social justice — Ward's position on activism and community responsibility during social unrest

  • “When you sit silent, it really just not only hurts people that are being affected, it also hurts you, especially if it's something you know is wrong.”

    Alex Ward @ social justice discussion — Personal philosophy on bystander effect and moral responsibility

  • “Once it becomes too difficult it becomes not fun. You just got to find that fine line.”

    Alex Ward @ discussing machine difficulty settings — Balance philosophy for recreational vs. competitive machine setup

Entities

Alex WardpersonJeff TeolispersonToken Game TavernvenueKnoxville Pinball PlayersorganizationSutry's BarvenueGeorge TalleypersonPortal ArcadevenuePinvasioneventPinbergeventDavid Spake

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Token Game Tavern in Knoxville became an unexpected hub for pinball community building, hosting weekly tournaments starting with ~30 participants and growing significantly through free play incentives on Tuesdays and Sundays.

    high · Alex Ward's detailed narrative about discovering the venue, organizing first unsanctioned tournament, and expansion to multiple locations including Sutry's Bar

  • ?

    community_signal: Knoxville pinball scene successfully created a welcoming, harassment-free environment for women competitive players, with notable female participation exceeding expectations for the region.

    high · Ward's explicit statement: 'I've seen it really grow in Tennessee, which I think has a larger contingent of women that want to play competitive pinball than anybody could expect. Because every week we had women playing at our regular tournaments.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Free play nights on specific days (Tuesdays at Token Game Tavern, Sundays at Sutry's) were identified as critical mechanism for lowering barrier to entry and building competitive community.

    high · Alex Ward: 'With that incentive, it helped people relax and learn the game of pinball without any pressure... What a great introduction, too, because you want to fork over a lot of money to a hobby that you may or may not enjoy when it's free.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Tournament machine setup practices include tightening tilt sensitivity, removing post rubbers, and adding lightning flippers to create more challenging conditions than recreational play.

    high · Both Jeff and Alex discussing how tournament operators dial up difficulty through tighter tilt bobs, removed rubbers, and lightning flippers on certain machines

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.113

0:00
Right now, I just need you to get real loose, get comfortable, grab your loved ones, or grab your love partner, and if you're by yourself, no worries, just follow after me. It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, past episodes, search out people you want to find out, games you want to find out. It's all there on Pinball Profile. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Pinball Profile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. And please subscribe on your favorite podcatcher. We're going to talk to somebody that is very familiar in the pinball scene in Georgia and also recently in Tennessee in the Knoxville area. A pleasure to be talking to. Good friend Alex Ward joins us. Hey, Alex, how are you? Hey, Jeff. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing great. Thanks for coming on the program. So you're back in Georgia. Yes. and it feels good to be back. It's my home state, and I made a lot of good friends here, and I love Knoxville and the people there. It just feels good to be home. When you and I first met, I guess two years ago, at Louisville Arcade Expo, you were in Tennessee, and you were telling me about the growth of pinball in Tennessee, which I had no idea. Yes. At that time, there was not a significant pinball scene in Knoxville. They were pinball machines in locations around town, but there was no way to connect with the people there. And I just stumbled upon a place called Token Game Tavern one day when I was first looking to go to a home improvement store. And I saw a sign just flapping on the corner of the road by the traffic light, and it said Token Game Tavern. And I just thought I'd go take a look inside. I opened the door, and I found out that they had just opened a month before, or a few weeks before I moved to Knoxville. And they had, I believe, four pinball machines, a host of arcade machines, board games, lots of food. And it looked very enticing. So after I finished looking around, I looked at the group behind the bar and said, I'll be back.
2:15
I just walked out. And a week later, I came back, and the rest is history from there. I started meeting people and playing pinball and telling what I knew about pinball and where I was from. And it was maybe two months later, we had our first just a random tournament of people coming in to get to know each other. And it was a nice crowd. So that's when we started kicking around the idea of having a league or at least learning how to have a league there. And before you know it, I believe our first tournament we had. It was unsanctioned, just word of mouth and starting up. We had a Facebook page, Knoxville Pinball Players, and we just said we're going to have a tournament, a league, and we'll start unsanctioned so everybody can get familiar with the rules and how it works and what competitive pinball feels like. And that first day we had about 30 people. Wow. It brought friends and family, and it was on a Tuesday night. because it was their slowest night, and everybody was exciting and wanted to play, and it just grew from there. Every week it was like that. Every Tuesday it was so many people. We were just having a great time. The next thing you know, there's happy hour on Tuesdays. The next thing you know, after that, there was free pinball on Tuesdays after 5, and it just expanded. And the next thing I know, I met a couple of people from Sutry's bar, and they had a few machines there. And I remember them saying, well, you got way more machines than you expect that we would have down there. And before I know it, we were expanding the Pamp Tournament downtown in Knoxville, and that grew the scene even more. George Talley is the guy's name. We became good friends. and he's an excellent pinball player. Every week, you can play free after five on Sundays at Sutry's, and you can play free on Tuesdays at Token. And I think with that incentive, it helped people relax and learn the game of pinball without any pressure. And what a great introduction, too, because you want to fork over a lot of money to a hobby that you may or may not enjoy when it's free. What do you got to lose but time? Exactly. And that's, I believe, making people comfortable with coming in and seeing that it's a friendly atmosphere. And I believe that Tolkien Game Tavern had a very family-friendly atmosphere. It's not one of those type of places where it's a bar first. It was more of a social aspect because of the way they themed the restaurant, the bar, the gaming. They had different nights of tournaments, cosplay nights. They even had a D&D live gaming area, couches and consoles. And at the bar, the TVs are playing consoles. You just get a wireless controller, have a seat at the bar, play a game, have a drink, have a snack. And when it's that much geekdom in one building, you're not going to get many wild people that are not similar to you there. It's going to be a lot of like-minded people who just want to have fun and enjoy the things that they love. One of the aspects of it was that it's one of the quietest bars with noise, but it's quiet and you can hear yourself. and there's no smoking and I rarely saw anybody belligerent. When I say rare, I mean maybe once a year. And that, I think, says a lot for a group of people running a bar. That is a pretty amazing story how quickly the Knoxville scene grew. And I know there's pinball activity in Memphis and also in Nashville. And Tennessee is a state that really enjoys their pinball. There's a lot of good people there. But you're back in Georgia now and that's another place. It has a great scene. I know you were headed to Pinburg this year, and I think you were going to bring your daughter to. Pinburg this year was going to conflict with a major Georgia event there in Pinvasion. Yes, it was. I'm glad it's not going to conflict because the hardest decision to make is going to your local expo versus going to the national competitive expo. and it's something I now have I do as a tradition with my daughter but I go on to pinberg every year with her and that would have just oh it would have it would have been it just would have hurt because I want to support my local but at the same time I really enjoy the aspect of replay effects and pinberg and seeing everybody from around the world that I know and the Pembroke tournament is the thing I look forward to every year. Obviously, everyone's feeling the same thing because look at how quickly that sells out. Everybody wants to be there. It's a tournament. It's a big, big tournament. It's well run. It's well timed. Yes. But really, let's be honest. It's about seeing all your friends from all over the world. That's it. I don't ever care really how I do in the tournament. I do want to play competitively. but seeing the people and enjoying and just being there is more fun for me than I ever expected it to be at a tournament of that size and that magnitude and and I still feel the competitive spirit as I'm playing if I'm doing good or bad it's still fun and competitive and it feels fair to me most of the time except when I don't hit the ball if I play you in Pinberg I'm going to remind you before we start playing hey alex remember when you said you just you don't really care about how you do competitively so you know don't put in your best effort just have fun we'll talk it'll be social that's the experience you're here for you know just if you just go easy on me i'm gonna remind you of that well jeff i have to tell you when i look at the rankings when i peruse the ifpa i see you're ranked higher than me and there's nothing better than me than to give it to you every now and then.

medium confidence · Ward's description of tournament machine setup practices, general industry knowledge

person
Brian Broylesperson
Bowen Cairnsperson
Lutherperson
Pinball Profileorganization
Louisville Arcade Expoevent
$

market_signal: Pinberg tournament 'sells out quickly' and is highly sought-after despite scheduling conflicts with local events like Pinvasion, indicating strong demand for premier tournaments.

high · Alex Ward: 'Obviously, everyone's feeling the same thing because look at how quickly that sells out. Everybody wants to be there.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Alex Ward relocated from Tennessee back to his home state of Georgia, indicating geographic mobility of community organizers within the pinball ecosystem.

    high · Opening statement: 'So you're back in Georgia. Yes, and it feels good to be back. It's my home state'

  • ?

    technology_signal: During COVID-19 lockdown period (early 2020), home pinball players adjusted machine settings toward recreational play (adding extra balls, enabling wizard modes) rather than tournament-style difficulty.

    high · Alex Ward: 'I've actually gone the other way. I've made my games not easier as far as tilts, but extra balls are back on because I might want to try to get to the wizard mode in some of my games.'

    • 8:43
    Yeah. It's so funny you say that because whether it's through pinball profile or just being at a bunch of events, being fortunate enough to emcee a few events, there's a target on my back for sure. I might have a big mouth once in a while.
    9:00
    I just want you to know those are hard-earned rankings. Those are hard-earned points because I've got targets on my back. You make me think about the time you and I were playing dollar games at LAX. You got a good memory. And we were just goofing off back there, over there where the classics were. And I want to say we were playing Orbit Yes Super Orbit This is two years ago I totally remember that And we were having a great time I mean, we were putting up some decent scores for a dollar. And that last game, you destroyed me. And I just watched that dollar disappear. And I wanted to try to win it back. And you're like, nope, I'm going to frame this dollar. Oh, it's totally framed. Absolutely. Yep.
    9:51
    I was like, well, this has been great. You know, I finally meet the podcast dude. That's all I knew you as.
    10:01
    It was just, it was so much fun. You know, you never know who you're going to meet and end up being friends with at pinball, period. But it's just those kind of things that I love to remember about being in a tournament. I may not remember where I placed, but I remember how much fun I had. Well, you gave a good example of what happened there in the Knoxville scene. A lot of like-minded people got together and certainly were interested in the games, in pinball machines, in not necessarily the bar aspect, but more of the social scene. And that's carried over to other places as well. I know Portal Arcade's not too far from you, and Brian does a good job there. And I see that they're open, so we should make mention of that. And they've got the great safety precautions that should be during COVID-19. but we certainly want to mention if you're in the Atlanta area, you might want to check out Portal Arcade. Yes. We were talking about Pinvasion conflicting with Pinberg this year. Obviously, neither are happening. I have not been to Pinvasion. I know you have. Yes. It's obviously somewhere I've got to get to because I hear it's great. Yes. And the thing is, I think they're going to do more Pinvasions at another area besides at Southern Pride, But I can't confirm or deny that because it's been a while since I've been in the scene and keeping up with it. However, Brian always runs an excellent tournament. And when I was in the Convasion tournaments, they were always highly competitive. And a lot of great players come to be in it. And it's become more valuable in ranking points if that's what you're after. But at the same time, I've always felt that with each year it got bigger and he expanded it into more tournament from just one big tournament with an A and a B group. He ended up having a women's tournament also, which I think acknowledges that the women aspect of competitive play has grown and is continuing to grow. I've seen it really grow in Tennessee, which I think has a larger contingent of women that want to play competitive pinball than anybody could expect. Because every week we had women playing at our regular tournaments. And it was a great thing to see that they felt comfortable and relaxed to be able to play with the guys without any issues of harassment or anything like that. Maybe because I'm 6'2", 275, I may help out with somebody that can help them with issues. But I wouldn't say that's the reason. I think that the overall goodness of the people. But back on Pinvasion, it always felt like it was a very competitive tournament that really challenged you as far as the different way machines were set up. And I always felt a tinge of nervous at those tournaments because I knew some of the machines based on Brian having them at his portal. And before then, you know, from the different people who volunteered in machines, before there were a lot of locations to play in Georgia, we would go to basements, so to say, and play in leagues. And there's an enormously large amount of people who have pinball machines in the Atlanta area hidden in their home that people don't know about. And I remember meeting Brian Broyles, Al Warner, and Scott Kutais, and Chris Compton, and trying to think of all these people who houses I went to that had just a slew of machines in their home. And they would bring them to these tournaments, and it made that tournament that much better every year. What a lot of people may or may not understand when they go to their first tournament, especially a major tournament like a Pinvasion or certainly Pinberg, you might be used to the games you have at home. You might be used to what's available in your leagues. But when you go to these big tournaments, they do dial up the games, whether it's tighter tilt bobs, maybe some rubbers have been removed. Maybe you've got lightning flippers on a game that normally doesn't have that. All these little things that just change the game slightly so that you're not throwing the machine around as much as you might get away with in leagues or at your home. So I wonder, because you have games at home and you like to play in tournaments, have you changed your games at home to prepare yourself more for tournaments? Or are you just trying to, you know, extra balls are on. I'm not going to go crazy with the tilts and rubbers. I just want to have fun and blow up these games a little bit. Most of the time, if I'm preparing for a tournament, I'll turn off extra balls. I'll set the tilt a little bit tighter and some games I'll take the rubbers off the post. Wow. And that helps you. Well, it helps me prepare for tournaments now that I've played in my fair share of them. I understand that these games are not going to play the way I play them when I'm at home. So I decided that that would be the best route for myself to prepare for tournament. And the one thing is sometimes I don't change them back, but I do try to turn the extra balls back on on most of them when competitive time is up for large tournaments. But it helps you understand the difference between casual play of pinball and tournament play of pinball. As the competition started to ramp up in Tennessee, we used to leave the games very friendly as people learned. And then when the league night started taking a long time, that's when I let everybody know, okay, now I'm going to start to set these machines the way you would play them in competitive places. Time is a factor for sure, but I think the last three months we've been isolated and at home. I've actually gone the other way. I've made my games not easier as far as tilts, but extra balls are back on because I might want to try to get to the wizard mode in some of my games. And I've had these games for years, but I've never reached the wizard mode. well, now I'm starting to do it with the help of things like extra balls. Yeah, especially now. Oh, man, I've turned on the extra balls on all machines now because I'm home all the time. I work from home. My son was going to school from home, and I thought, well, let's just see what happens, especially with games like NBA Fast Break, where I really never thought about completing the entire game to win the world championship in the game. It was just a family fun game to play. And so I've turned extra balls on and added a way where you get a certain amount of points. Then you'll get extra ball instead of a free game. Something to achieve. I know you have Mata Hari. And if you turn extra balls on that game, you can be there for a long time. Yes. But if you only put on one extra ball and only make it one way to get the extra ball. Okay. All right. You know, make sure you complete the lanes. I think it's five times in order to get that one extra ball. and that can make the game that much more challenging. By completing A and B lanes, it's five times to get the extra ball. And that makes that the only way to get the extra ball and get one extra ball. And that keeps it very competitive, but at the same time, a lot of fun. What about some of your other games? I know you've got Space Station, Comet. What else do you have? I also have Dr. Dude, and I leave that one at a very friendly play. It can be brutal on its own for no reason.
    17:39
    Firepower is just going to be brutal. You can set that any way you want, and it's still going to teach you a lesson eventually, within a few seconds sometimes. Yep. I also have Mardi Gras, which is an EM I'm trying to get set back up. And, yes, you said Space Station, which is always a fun game. Great soundtrack. I leave in the bonus, and it also gives you the bonus time play. So that becomes more of a fun. aspect of the game well let me tell you i was once in a major tournament and they had space station and it was set so hard i mean not only were the tilts tight the angle of the machine was certainly elevated it was elevated so much that when it came time to the playoffs they took the game out because the plunger wouldn't go up the wire rail to get to the top that's i mean you would bang it as hard as you could and you couldn't do it so they just took the game out as opposed to oh i don't know lower the legs or maybe take the legs off the back two by four that they were sitting on yeah and sometimes you can you can set a game to a ridiculous level of difficulty and I don understand it Once it becomes too difficult it becomes not fun You just got to find that fine line. I know there's some very good competitive players out there. You see it all the time, but where's the limit? Alex, you were saying about Mardi Gras and the EM, and you're trying to get up and running. I was wondering, with your IT background, does that help you as far as fixing games? It did. A long time ago, I thought I wanted to be an electrical engineer, and I majored in electrical engineering for about two years. And I learned a lot about wiring, things I didn't expect I would use later in the future. But then when I switched over to IT, I was doing more hands-on work with building systems and, of course, more wiring. and then working in Cisco systems and connecting phone systems. All these things end up accumulating to something I ended up wanting to explore with pinball. And when I got into pinball, I didn't expect that I wanted to ever fix a machine. But I have a friend named David Spake who lives out in Seattle, Washington. He gave me my first machine to purchase, and it had some issues, and I wanted a machine with some issues so I could learn how to fix them. And I think that helped a lot when I wanted to learn how to troubleshoot because it became a thing that I was kind of used to doing with troubleshooting computers, fixing those parts, doing solder, ironwork, replacing chips. And it just kind of was like a natural thing for me to want to do. So I didn't work on cars. Pinball machines became my cars, looking under the hood and seeing what's wrong and finding out there's a lot of a wealth of information out there to help you fix a machine. Yeah, I've said it for years. I wish I was better at fixing games. But, you know, with the time that we've had at home, you get in there because you don't want to look at this machine that's sitting there and doing nothing and you can't turn it on. So when it's not working and you start to fix it, what's the difference? It's not working before you started to fix it. You try to fix it. It's still not working. You're at the same spot. So you might as well give it a try. Yes, unless it's soldering. I don't recommend soldering for everybody. That's the one thing I actually can do. I mean, it's an ugly glob when I do it. It's not exactly the cleanest job ever done. It gets the job done. I always recommend practicing on that, whether it's doing solder work on a board or under the hood of a machine. Just give yourself some practice time, and you'll get better with it, even if it's not that good. If you can get it to work, hey, there you go. And then you can call somebody later to clean it up if you need to. Yeah, there's that too. Having the right tools is obviously very important as well too. But it helps tremendously. For sure. You know, you have young kids. I have kids a little bit older. And with everything that's gone on the last three months, first of all, being at home with COVID, what is it you're saying to the kids about what's going on? And are they okay? Because I'm sure they want to see their friends and why aren't we in school and those kinds of things? My son is more of a at-home kind of kid, even though he's a social bird. He spends a lot of time with his friends from school online, and they'll game together. And he doesn't seem to be so bothered by it. He has what I call COVID buddies in the neighborhood. They've seen each other since school. You know, they're across the street and they're next door, and they're the only kids they socialize with. So that's giving him a little bit of ease to be out the house and in the house. When you got your COVID buddies, that gives you a little bit of freedom to get out of the house. Because if they got it, you got it kind of thing. And if you hadn't had it and they already had it, you're taking a chance. But you see them every day, those same people. You see them at the same grocery store. We did? Yes, we did see your friends at the grocery store. There's Luther. and we always practice wearing masks when we're out in public when we get home you can relax and he always hand sanitizes after we come out of the grocery store and then when we get to the house he washes his hands thoroughly and it's become a routine it's the new normal he always questions if we're going to go somewhere do we have to get out he's like no can i stay in the car? Yes. We're going to go through the drive-thru. Great. Yeah. That's the new thing. The new normal is he's actually a cleaner person now.
    23:32
    Hey, that's good. No, you were clean before. I mean, you're a kid that play outside and get dirty all the time, but now you wash up. You wash yourself thoroughly. It makes me very happy.
    23:45
    That's what I'm thinking by myself. You're making yourself nothing. He knows how to make himself a the three and a half minute instant macaroni and cheese in the microwave. And he's been doing that for about two and a half years. Just a little inside secret here at Pinball Profile. We were recording at dinner and poor Luther was getting hungry and he was trying to make some macaroni and cheese. And that was a bit of a mess, wasn't it? Oh, yes. It was completely made and then it fell on the floor. And he didn't want any more. It ruined his appetite. So we went to Frase. Burger and fries are fine, yeah. Yeah. You can't really do a five-second rule with macaroni and cheese. It's tough. It's like watching concentrated acid from an alien fall on the ground. It's all over. Yeah, you've got to be really hungry to go for that.
    24:38
    So that's how you've explained to the kids about COVID and things like that and why we're social distancing. And you and I have something in common with COVID in that for whatever reason, whether it was a conscious decision or not, we both lost some significant weight. Yes. I'm down 25, but you got me beat. Yeah, I'm down 40. I was 315 near the end of the summer. I'm down to 275. Feels good, doesn't it? It does. I walk around the house. I'll grab, let's say, 25 pounds of weights and just start walking around. I'm like, God, this would suck. Oh, I was doing that every day. yes it's like carrying a boulder or a backpack of rocks you know well good for you that's great and i think all the excess cooking at home i can't say it's really excess because i'm required to cook at home most of the time but it's certainly better than eating out all the time which was my problem for sure oh it's it's eating better and trying to go to bed at a reasonable of time. I think that has played into it and trying to stay outside since he can't go to school, I would take him out for walks to the park. We have a park in our neighborhood with a couple of lakes, but you couldn't play on the playground. So I let him sit by the lake and watch the ducks and the turtles. And then we would walk and run back home, just goofing off and he would ride his bike and his scooter. And that would help with cardio and throwing the ball around with the neighborhood kids. So that all helped out with the workout and the eating right and going to bed. Yeah, it definitely all helps for sure. You and I were chatting on Facebook a few weeks ago, just seeing how everyone's doing. And obviously, I've reached out to quite a few people just to say how are things going with COVID and the protests. And then, of course, we saw what happened with the tragic murder of George Floyd. And a week after I think you and I were talking, I saw you post something very wonderful that I think a lot of people should read. In fact, I know Bowen Cairns asked you to share it, and he did. And it was really talking about things like silence is compliance. There's things everybody can do. And you gave a nice list of organizations to donate to, organizations to follow, numbers to call and text, petitions to sign, questions to ask yourself, action items. You just mentioned you and Luther riding the bikes, and I don't know what it's like in the city you're in right now. but we're seeing protests even in where I live, in Burlington, Ontario, which is certainly far removed from Minnesota, but you're seeing it all over the world. I don't know what it's like where you are. And again, back to what we were talking about to the kids, I don't know what you would say to your kids, because what you say to your kids is, I don't know how to, your kids are young, and I don't know how to introduce some of the horrible things that we're seeing in the world to children. You know, it's a conversation that evolves as you get older, especially when I was a kid. My mother would advise me on coming home on time, always calling where I was if I was going to be late. That way she would always know where I'm at because you just don't know. and growing up not in the nicest of areas you could see the difference in the behavior of people with the police and sometimes the way the police would behave towards the citizens now i can't say it was all the time bad but you could tell when your interaction was not good even though you were doing what you thought was the right thing Or you witnessed somebody just trying to do the right thing And a policeman is harassing. Even as a teenager, you would see other teenagers being pushed by a police officer trying to intimidate them. Not necessarily trying to hurt them, but trying to put a fear factor in them. And at 17, 18, it was a strange thing to see for myself as you always heard about it. But to witness it yourself is more disturbing than anything else. And fortunately for my son, I really haven't had to have that conversation with him just yet. We don't watch a lot of the news, but he is aware of racism. The way people are treated, he's been taught about it from early years in school since preschool. And that may be because of the school he went to was more socially aware of issues in our area. Because prior to going to Knoxville, we lived in Smyrna, which is a suburb outside of Atlanta. And we were fortunate that he was able to be in the same preschool all the way through kindergarten. and they would teach children about discrimination and have us in on those conversations. And also in the church we went to, they did a very good informational gathering of families and how to keep your kids safe and your community safe. It's never easy. It's a shame that your skin color can be a distraction to some people and treat you differently, whether it's consciously or unconsciously. It saddens me beyond belief. And I think of the kids, because it's the next generations that are going to fix this, hopefully. And hopefully the current generations will learn from it. We are seeing valid protests. You know, I just wish there wasn't COVID going on because of the gatherings. But these protests, people are risking their health to make change. And I love seeing people again recognize that silence is not acceptable. I hope that we're not just living in the moment and that change for the better will continue in the days, months, and years to come. But it certainly takes empathy, education, and compassion. And I hope we're going to get there. Me too. And it takes time. Everything takes time. And time is always on your side. But you have to make a conscious effort. You can't sit idle and think that because what you do today is going to resonate into tomorrow, because that's never the case. You have to be proactive all the time. You don't necessarily have to be out all the time with it, but if you see something, say something. Absolutely. And that begins to change. When you sit silent, it really just not only hurts people that are being affected, it also hurts you, especially if it's something you know is wrong. and then you let it sit with you, then that's something you're carrying within yourself, knowing that one moment in time you could have prevented somebody from being hurt or being mentally, physically abused in that moment, whether it's because of your skin color, whether even if you're a woman being discriminated and harassed, or if you're gay or bisexual, you have a chance to stop that from happening to a person. and a lot of times people that watch it and be silent don't forget it because i see it happen all the time i think i have more awareness of it because of being discriminated against when you see someone that is for me my own personal experience someone being bullied or a woman being harassed or a person that is gay is being harassed or on the verge of being abused as i gotten older I don't sit idle. I can recall an experience. I was on the bus coming from work. It had been a long day, and I was on a two-hour commute going home. And there was a woman that was on the bus. This guy came onto the bus. I didn't know what was going on because I had my headphones on. I was reading, and I realized he was harassing her. But not only was he harassing her, he was harassing her because of her sexuality. and with her being a lesbian he thought he had every right in the world to say whatever he wanted but that's not the case and I was frustrated and tired of seeing that happen and I had to tell him hey she's not asking you to bother her I don't know why you're bothering her but I need you to stop it and I don't mince words and I don't pretend like I'm not going to do anything I can't back it up but I know I can whatever I do I try not to make it violence to stop a situation but one person saying something will get the attention of others and sometimes that'll help with the group to stop that from happening and it took him by surprise and he had nothing to say except he was in shock and a couple other people said something and it's just it's tiring it's old. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it all. And I really don't hesitate at all because I've only had one incident in Knoxville where a young lady didn't feel comfortable with a gentleman there. And I just so happened to be on the road. I was going to visit my mom and she sent me a message in Facebook and told me about this gentleman. And I knew he was one that was a little bit older And he thought it was appropriate for himself to say something to her that she didn't like. And she told me about it. And I told her, I will look into it, not just look into it, but I will say something if you want me to, or I can monitor. You know, I want to give her her voice in this situation. Make sure she understands that I want to validate her feelings and that we can take care of this immediately when I get back or I can have somebody take care of it. and we took care of it in a very professional manner, I believe, and we didn't have to start a conversation within the group while we weren't there. It was easy to take care of it once you were aware of it, and you can talk to the person.
    35:06
    I'm trying to think of the word in a polite way, but I happened to make a scene talking to that person individually one-on-one and letting them know that that person felt uncomfortable with what you were saying. and you can resolve it without having to make a scene, you know. But then you make sure you put a hard boundary. If it happens again, that's it. Yeah. That's it. With things like this, you can't be lenient. You have to crush it. And that's the only way you can stop it. So it was maybe, I don't know, maybe a week later, everything was resolved. And that person was no longer involved in pinball ever. Good. That's how we are where we established in Knoxville. We don't tolerate any kind of discrimination or hate. We allow everybody to play with the freedom to know that they're going to be A-OK, and everybody's got your back. You're a great guy, Alex. I've known that since I first met you. People learning about you for the first time are going to feel the same way. You're a great family man. I don't have to tell you to give your kids a hug because I know you will. and I can only wait to see you again. And you mentioned your mom. I think I saw you with your mom at the sandwich shop, if I recall. At Pinberg, remember? That was my mom and my daughter and you and we had a great time.
    36:28
    Who would know eating a sandwich could be so much fun? Can I tell you something? Sure. I paid for that sandwich with the dollar I won off you at LAX.
    36:43
    I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm coming back for that dollar, you know. And I want to choose the machine. Oh, is that what it is? Okay.
    36:55
    God willing, that will happen soon because I miss people like you, and it's great to talk to you again, buddy. Yes, same here, Jeff. Thanks for letting me have this time to spend with you and your followers. I look forward to seeing you again, buddy. Same here, Jeff. And I hope it's sooner rather than later. Yes, absolutely. All the best, Alex. Thank you. You too. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Past episodes, subscribe on whatever podcatcher you have. Check us out on Instagram and Twitter, at pinballprofile. Don't forget about our Facebook group. And you can email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teolis.
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    you