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Pedretti Leaks, Jersey Jack Teases, Stern Reveals! | Talking Transformers, Sonic and TotAN

LoserKid YouTube·video·56m 29s·analyzed·Jun 5, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Loser Kid podcast covers Transformers reveal, Sonic tease, and TotAN remake with designer/manufacturing analysis.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss recent pinball announcements: Stern's newly revealed Transformers game (designed by Elliott Eisman with Elizabeth Stawasz on modes), Jersey Jack's teased Sonic the Hedgehog project, and Pedretti's Tales of the Arabian Nights remake. The hosts analyze game design trade-offs (mechanics vs. theme expectations), compare manufacturers at different scales, and discuss Pedretti's hiring of CGC's software team and marketing strategy for remakes.

Key Claims

  • Stern's Transformers game focuses on the first two seasons of the G1 cartoon specifically

    high confidence · Josh Roop, citing information from Elizabeth Stawasz and Elliott Eisman's appearance on the show

  • Godzilla is likely the best-selling Stern game in the last 40 years, on track to beat The Addams Family

    medium confidence · Josh Roop's assessment based on sales trajectory discussion

  • Hasbro was very easy to work with on Transformers licensing, possibly because D&D turned out well

    medium confidence · Scott Larson's speculation based on previous Hasbro licensing experience

  • Jersey Jack is teasing Sonic the Hedgehog as the next game, video game version not movie version

    medium confidence · Josh Roop referencing rumors and a teaser photo with Steve Ritchie released same day as Transformers announcement

  • Pedretti hired CGC's software and development team for Tales of the Arabian Nights remake

    high confidence · Josh Roop citing announced personnel move between companies

  • Tales of the Arabian Nights was officially announced May 12th with minimal marketing follow-up

    high confidence · Josh Roop stating announcement date and current lack of information (recorded in June)

  • The original Transformers game by Gomez also did not have transforming mechanics

    high confidence · Scott Larson referencing historical precedent in response to criticism of Elliott's design

  • Design decisions typically involve roughly 1.5 years of planning and are well-executed through spreadsheets and bill-of-materials management

    medium confidence · Scott Larson recounting George Gomez's presentation at John Wick reveal event

Notable Quotes

  • “For me personally, I prefer game flow code because here's the thing. Once I get into my collection, the mech is really cool, but it loses its shine and luster after 10, 20 plays.”

    Josh Roop@ 7:49 — Articulates the tension between visual spectacle and long-term play value in game design preferences

  • “If Medieval Madness did not have the castle, it would not be the game it is.”

    Scott Larson@ 9:22 — Core example of how signature mechs define iconic games, relevant to Transformers criticism

  • “Do you fault Bugatti because they're not doing the same things that Ford is doing or do you get upset when Ford isn't mass producing Bugatti?”

    Scott Larson@ 16:14 — Economic reality check comparing small boutique manufacturers to Stern's scale advantages

  • “Shark No Eat Ball... I guess is the new Shark No Eat Ball. Optimus No Transform.”

    Josh Roop@ 15:25 — Coins a meme-style complaint term for the Transformers design criticism, echoing historical pinball complaints

  • “It's basically taking the Jurassic Park dinosaur, the moving dinosaur thing, and adding a cannon to it. It's like a Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons and Dragons dragon and they spit out Megatron's cannon.”

    Josh Roop@ 17:19 — Creative description of the Megatron Cannon mech as a standout feature deserving of focus

  • “I think it's because Dungeons & Dragons turned out so well that they were just like, yeah.”

    Scott Larson@ 22:38 — Explains Hasbro's apparent ease with Transformers licensing based on D&D success

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonElliott EismanpersonElizabeth StawaszpersonSteve RitchiepersonGeorge GomezpersonRaymondpersonZach Sharpeperson

Signals

  • ?

    machine_intel: Stern officially revealed Transformers pinball game designed by Elliott Eisman with Elizabeth Stawasz on modes; G1 cartoon-focused with Megatron Cannon and Soundwave ball lock as signature mechs

    high · Hosts reference recent media day reveal, interview with designers, detailed discussion of mechanics

  • ?

    machine_intel: Jersey Jack Pinball teasing unannounced Sonic the Hedgehog game (video game IP) with Steve Ritchie; rumored June reveal

    medium · Teaser photo with Steve Ritchie released same day as Transformers announcement; hosts speculate on loop-to-loop and spinner features

  • ?

    machine_intel: Pedretti officially announced Tales of the Arabian Nights remake on May 12th; hiring CGC software team suggests quality focus

    high · Hosts cite May 12th announcement date; cgc team acquisition confirmed; leak of Brian Allen artwork variants

  • ?

    product_concern: Community criticism of Transformers for lack of transforming mechanics, labeled 'Optimus No Transform'; hosts debate legitimacy of complaint vs. practical/financial constraints

    high · Extended discussion of Optimus Prime not transforming; comparison to Medieval Madness castle and Godzilla tower; reliability and budget concerns raised

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of design scope limitations: Godzilla's extensive mech suite may have set unrealistic expectations for subsequent Stern games; possible budget/reliability constraints on Transformers

    medium · Hosts note Godzilla's unique mechanical complexity; speculate financial decisions and durability concerns; compare economies of scale between Stern (35k/year) and boutique manufacturers (1k/year)

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.169

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain. Scott Larson. And Scott, it's just me and you hanging out today. It's kind of random. You can't always just have guests on because at some point we need to catch up with pinball and people want to know about what's going on with the hobby, what's going on with each of the manufacturers. And so this is a good episode for us to really just talk about, hey, this is what's going on and keep you up to date. Definitely. So we can talk about Transformers, the somewhat announced Sonic because we saw Steve Ritchie's crazy hair. And then Tales of the Arabian Nights. Do you want any of these games? Where are you going to be getting them from? Yeah. Call Zach and Nicole Mini at Flippin' Out Pinball. They can help you with all things pinball, including used and new. So reach out to them. And if you are interested in some LE, get on the interested list. Even if it's not announced, they can at least say, hey, if you're interested in a title, they can put you on that. Definitely. Okay. First one we talked about. So we already kind of alluded to this, right? Like Stern came out with Transformers. You and I did not go to the media day.
1:14
Okay. So, yes, we didn't go to the reveal day for the media. But we were very lucky in that Stern was able to accommodate us, that Elizabeth and Elliot were able to come on our show, talk, check out our last episode. We were able to ask on very short notice. We were able to get some information and to know a lot more about Transformers. Well, and I loved it because Elizabeth is just excited. She was glowing over this because it's her first time on lead. And she's killing it. Like, seriously, some of the most memorable modes in games, like in Jaws, Scars, you know, the shark. Shark is broken. Like, just there's so many cool things that she's brought to pinball. And I think she understands that balance of moments, but with gameplay and flow and just what people want to play when they're playing a game. You definitely want this type of excitement when you're getting into pinball because you really should have that hunger when you're getting your shot to be able to say, this is what I can do in pinball. And being able to show, hey, this is how I really want to take things and do my take on it. I also think Elliott's doing a good job. I would say it was a little challenging. John Wick was a challenging license for many reasons. And so I'm really glad that he was able to get a second shot. And I'm interested in playing this. I still have not played one on location yet, but I think Ketos is getting one here soon or one of our local things. So I'm planning on going up there and taking a look at it. But Josh, there's lots of questions about this. So why don't you give me the rundown of the things that you took were huge positives and then questions that people are talking about. I think we'll obviously get to Optimus Prime, right? Sure. And we'll talk about it here in a second. But can we, like you said, I want to fire on the right cylinders with the pros first. I think the Megatron Cannon's very cool. I know that they're trying to do some different stuff. Like they said on our show, they were a little concerned with shooting it directly at the player because of automatic drains and stuff like that.

  • “Can we just all agree that the Decepticons won versus the Autobots in this game?”

    Josh Roop@ 19:27 — Humorous observation about visual design quality disparity between factions in the game

  • “The quality that you know that comes to CGC is now working for Pedretti.”

    Josh Roop@ 36:37 — Notes significant software talent acquisition by Pedretti, suggesting quality improvement for remakes

    • Nicole Miniperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Pedretticompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    CGC (Coin-Op Gaming Co.)company
    Transformersgame
    Sonic the Hedgehoggame
    Tales of the Arabian Nightsgame
    Godzillagame
    Funhousegame
    Flip N Out Pinballvenue/vendor
    Hasbrocompany
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Hasbro demonstrated ease of licensing with both Dungeons & Dragons and Transformers; potential for additional Hasbro IP pinball games (G.I. Joe, Masters of the Universe, My Little Pony discussed)

    medium · Scott Larson speculates D&D success led to Transformers cooperation; hosts discuss other Hasbro properties as future pinball candidates

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Pedretti hired CGC's software and development team; CGC appears to be exiting remake business after completing projects

    high · Josh Roop confirms CGC team now works for Pedretti; implies CGC satisfied with remake portfolio and transitioning out

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pedretti considering modernization options for Tales of the Arabian Nights (Brian Allen artwork, updated visuals) while preserving original code/music/callouts; debate over Chicago Gaming's successful balance

    medium · NAP Arcade photo leak shows Brian Allen variants; hosts discuss modernization precedents; emphasize importance of original option availability

  • $

    market_signal: Godzilla positioned as best-selling or near-best-selling Stern game in 40 years, on track to surpass The Addams Family sales

    medium · Josh Roop's assessment of Godzilla commercial trajectory; hosts use as benchmark for game design expectations

  • ?

    content_signal: Loser Kid Podcast secured last-minute interview with Elizabeth Stawasz and Elliott Eisman after missing official Transformers media day

    high · Josh and Scott reference previous episode featuring designer interviews, credited Stern accommodation for last-minute appearance

  • ?

    community_signal: Community divided on Transformers design: transformation mechanics complaint vs. focus on Megatron Cannon innovation; hosts defend designers against criticism shouldering

    high · Extended debate about 'Shark No Eat Ball' equivalent; discussion of designer/manufacturer responsibility; criticism of fan expectations vs. practical constraints

  • ?

    venue_signal: Transformers reportedly coming to locations (e.g., Ketos); hosts planning location tests before home purchase decisions

    medium · Scott Larson mentions Ketos potentially receiving Transformers for location play testing

    • 3:35
    I really like the Soundwave. I know it's just a ball lock, but it's cool. It's so cool. It's way cool. I think once people get their hands on this and start playing the code, it really is going to come into its own and people are going to love it more.
    3:53
    I don't know. If it were me, I feel like this was more, no slight to Borg, but I was jealous over this because I felt like this is what Turtles should have been. I felt like Turtles was good. Don't get me wrong. It was good, but I felt like this was like a dedicated, like they really sunk their teeth into the material and was able to translate that into pinball. What do you think, Scott?
    4:20
    Turtles, the challenge with Turtles is it was a little mismatch, and I totally understand. There's a little bit of scar tissue because he put Munsters out, which was a fan layout. It was accessible and approachable for entry-level players, and people criticized him for making a baby game.
    4:41
    And unfortunately, it's trying to find that balance of, hey, we want to make sure it's challenging for great players, but it's also accessible for new players.
    4:52
    Threading that needle, Turtles, I felt, was more on the difficult side. The shots were, they were definitely elite-level shots. A little mismatch maybe on the difficulty of the game versus the theme.
    5:06
    But hey, you know what? This is how it is now with Star Wars. The shots are a little more predictable, a little more fan layout. But you also have Raymond on the code there too. So you actually have a surprisingly great code package with Star Wars. I think this one has the potential to with with the way the Transformers is interacting with this. And they talked about it with it's mainly focusing on the first two seasons. So if you are OG, if you want to go and look at the first two seasons of the cartoon, you can see exactly which elements they're pulling from that, which is good. Now, they even brought back Hot Rod, though, which was the guy that they introduced to take over Optimus Prime spot in the movie. Yeah, it's okay. I will say I, okay, I did not grow up with any money. So I don't even think my parents took me to this movie. I actually never had a transformer of my own. I would go to my friend's house and play with their transformers, but I was definitely in the wheelhouse. So, and I actually did look up, by the way, if you want to get your Generation 1 Soundwave, you can, and you can get them on eBay. And I did look. They're about $80 or so, and then you can also get all the cassettes with all the different animals that you would shoot out. So I thought that was a really cool option. That is cool. But, okay, so elephant in the room. Is this Shark No Eat Ball? Is this, like, okay. I understand the criticism. People saying, hey, it's Transformers, but it doesn't transform anything. Okay. What reasonable expectation can people have? Because last time I checked, when Gomez did Transformers, they didn't transform there either. So why is this a big deal? Why do you think it's a legitimate criticism? Do you think it's overblown? What are your thoughts? I mean, at least on the Gomez one, you could hit Optimus Prime in the crotch. Ouch. I can see it both ways. I guess it really comes down to when you play pinball, what are you playing pinball for? Is it watching mechs do their job inside of games? Is it flow? Is it code? Is it the experience itself? Like you could argue that like Guns N' Roses isn't like the best playing game, but it is definitely probably one of the best experiences in the last five years. And it's literally like a concert under the glass, right?
    7:45
    For me personally, like I've really done some introspection, right? Like for me personally, I prefer game flow code because here's the thing. Once I get into my collection, the mech is really cool, but it loses its shine and luster after 10, 20 plays. And I really want to explore the code more than I do want to see the mech do the thing, right?
    8:13
    I feel like it's overblown, but I can also see it from the perspective of like, this was your dream theme, and you've got this preconceived notion of things need to transform in a Transformers game. I can see how it falls short. For me, no. Not a big deal. Okay.
    8:31
    I'm going to ask a few questions. If I told you, hey, Transformers is coming out and they make cool mechs in a pinball machine, I think it's reasonable to say, okay, so is it going to do the thing, right?
    8:47
    There are a couple challenges, though. What would a reasonable mechanism transformation actually look like? So I don't know. Well, now that you're asking this too, are there games that have had transforming mechs?
    9:07
    Do you count the Skyscraper from Godzilla? Okay, so that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking of things that they're really cool actually, okay? And I'm going to push back a little bit on the mechanism isn't a big deal. I think it is actually. If you look at Medieval Madness, okay, if Medieval Madness did not have the castle, it would not be the game it is. True. It wouldn't. But it's one small moment that is still cool to see. Godzilla with the building up and down, it's cool. And it's cool that it moves up and down and changes the ball path. Also, acting has the ball lock. And when you start Godzilla multi-ball, it comes down and spits them from the tower. That's a cool effect. Okay. I don't think it's exactly the same if you don't have that. However, okay. So you're looking at the mechanism. What does, what is the fancy thing that the Godzilla tower actually does? It moves up and down, right? But it does change ball paths depending on the level. Okay. But I'm just saying from a mechanical standpoint, it does one thing. It goes up and down. And if you really look at Medieval Madness, the castle, all it's doing is it has the three of the four castle – I don't know. What would you say? The towers? Pillars. Yeah, towers. The towers. They're basically kind of on a spring, and so it relaxes, and the towers shake that way. Yeah. Okay, so amazing. You also have the drawbridge and the gate too. You would, but that goes up and down. But imagine for you to have that one moment, the most you could possibly expect, which I believe was the mechanism, is to have Optimus stand up and put his arms out like a chicken wing. Okay? Yeah, true. That's kind of the most you could reasonably expect from a mechanical wonder in a pinball machine. Then you also have on top of that, okay, how durable is this?
    11:21
    So if he – okay, are we just going to have Optimus stand up? Is that worth it? I don't know. If his arms move out, are his arms vulnerable to damage? I don't know. And then you have other issues. Once you have any sort of extra movement in there, there's a – you have a reliability issue. Well, and that's the other thing, too, is like there's also them in this argument of like it starts down. But as soon as you press start, as it's loading the ball into the launch or into the shooter lane, he stands up and says, you know, Autobots roll out. But it becomes an ROI situation then to the other angle that a lot of people haven't talked about this.
    12:05
    What if it was a financial decision? Because here's the thing. I think Godzilla is really, really great. But what other Sterns in the Spike 2 era have had similar mechs? It's pretty – let's talk about it real quick. You got the Skyscraper up and down, which is a pretty big mech, right? It's a big mech. Yeah, it is huge. It's actually like a shoebox size almost. You've got the turntable in front of Mechagodzilla. So you get the stand-ups, and then it flips, and you get a spinner on that. Plus, Mechagodzilla himself grabs the ball and holds onto it with his stomach. The tummy tuck. Yeah. You've got the breaking bridge that drops the ball, also with the magnet that grabs the ball, with the double spinners. I mean, the game's pretty loaded, and I can't think of another Stern that hits on the same level as Godzilla when it comes to mechs. Do you think that was a detriment? Because now everything's being compared to Godzilla, but Godzilla is one of the best-selling games, if not the best-selling game in the last 40 years. It probably will be. At least it's on track to beat Adam's Family. Yes. Okay, that's actually a good question. I hadn't really thought about it. So I kind of went long-winded. Sorry. So I guess my question is, did financial stand in and say, hey, this is over budget? Or two, they came and said, hey, you have too many cool mechs in this, and we're already paying for it with Godzilla. You need to pull something out.
    13:43
    Okay. That is a possibility. Given that we know when we went to the John Wick reveal, we had George Gomez came in. And he showed us this giant spreadsheet. So for people who think that the development of games is not well thought out it is ridiculously well executed and planned And so it takes roughly about a year and a half Now I would think now we know we know historically designers would put extra stuff in games such as we throw drop targets in Eventually they look at it and say hey you over your bill of material And so they like okay make those standups Okay, but I would be surprised if you look at some of the pictures, you can see Optimus Prime in what looks like a squatted position in the promotional material that they probably shot within the last two months.
    14:50
    I would be shocked if they pulled it out that late in the game when they were already doing promotional things. Is it possible? Sure. And they're not going to tell us. I would be surprised if that were it. I think the driving force would definitely be reliability.
    15:08
    And I don't disagree with you. I think, right, it's a bunch of variables, right? But it's made me look from a different angle of like, I feel like looking at the release of Transformers, right? And with the whole Optimus Prime No Transform, which I guess is the new Shark No Eat Ball. Shark No Eat Ball, yeah. Optimus No Transform. I feel bad for these designers because I feel like a lot of this is shouldered on them.
    15:36
    I saw a lot of like, Elliot took this out, how could he? And I saw a lot of like, Stern, how could they do this to us? And I'm just like, I just don't, I don't know, maybe people don't run businesses? No, they don't, obviously, Josh, because they want the same thing, right? They want to buy a new game for significantly under MSRP, and then they want to resell it for over MSRP. Yeah, yeah. So they want to buy new games cheap and sell used games expensive. Well, and people keep comparing Stern to Spooky and to Barrels of Fun, which I get. They're both pinball machines, right? But do you fault Bugatti because they're not doing the same things that Ford is doing or do you get upset when Ford isn't mass producing Bugatti? You know what I'm saying? Okay. I would say – I agree with you. I wouldn't say that the – I wouldn't say the analysis is necessarily that a small boutique company is higher end because I don't think they're producing higher end products.
    16:39
    But you are right. When you're talking economies of scale, you cannot expect a small company that makes 1,000 games in a year to compete with a company that makes probably 35,000 games a year. Yeah.
    16:57
    Yeah. Okay. But look at it. Who's talking about that Megatron cannon is really cool. It really is cool. I am the first one to say if you're focused on the Transformer deficit, then you are missing one of the coolest mechanisms that Elliot designed. That is a really cool. It's basically taking the Jurassic Park dinosaur, the moving dinosaur thing, and adding a cannon to it. It's like a Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons and Dragons dragon and they spit out Megatron's cannon.
    17:41
    Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. It is a really cool mech. Like it still is. I think the cannon, granted, we can see where it goes and whatnot. And some people are like, well, just shoot the ball onto a ramp. But there's so much potential there. It's really, really cool. I don't feel like outside of a canon that you control like on T2 or an ACDC, this is something different. This is interactive to the point of like this is almost like Rudy from Funhaus like messing with you. You know what I'm saying? Like it just – there's an extra level there that I don't feel like we're accepting or acknowledging. And I think you're right. Like it's really, really cool. You got to focus on the cool mech you got, which is a really cool mech. If I had a choice between that and a Transformer, I'll take the mech. Yeah, I agree. What are your overall thoughts of Transformers? They did the right thing in going with size-appropriate sculpts. So the sculpts are actually pretty close to what the toys were. Yeah. As opposed to putting a bunch of tiny ones around. Okay, if you're going to put a critical eye, okay, the dinosaur sculpt, it's Grimlock, right? I'm getting that correct? I think so, yes. Okay, it could have been a little better, but that's, come on, that's ticky tack, right? Like, you could say the same thing about Godzilla. Godzilla's back here and he has, I would say, an underwhelming Godzilla sculpt, and then they threw it on the topper again. The exact same sculpt. Can we just all agree that the Decepticons won versus the Autobots in this game? Between the Grimlock and the Chicken Wing Optimus Prime, Megatron and Sett. Chicken Prime, yeah. Yeah, they look so much better. Like, Soundwave looks really, really cool. Okay, because the Decepticons always looked cooler than the Autobots. Like, I don't care if I can turn into a car. I'm going to fly. I'm a jet, okay? Thank you. So did it was a Bruce and Ron of Slam Tilt that sent us the picture of that like legit gun. I'm like, what are you doing with a gun? He's like, this is what Megatron used to transform to in the 80s. It looks like, oh, yeah, like a serious gun. Yeah, it was a sniper rifle. Yeah, no, I was totally jealous of that. Yeah. Okay. So I listened to I listened to Slam Tilt. I didn't actually see what did you watch the video of it? I didn't. Oh, yeah. But I'm just wondering, like, if, because it did, I don't remember it being, like, super long. I think it was more of, like, a handheld one with a scope on it. Yeah. Because, yeah, that would be ridiculously big. But it was, it was a cool mech. I mean, every kid wanted the Megatron one. It looked cool. This mech was, I don't know. As a toy, I now know why. I'm wondering if this is the toy that forced guns in the 90s and stuff to have the orange tip. Okay, so it wasn't that one. But I will say when I bought – I went and bought a whole bunch of Nintendo Entertainment System games about 20 years ago. And I bought like a refurbished system. And I got the old school system that slides in horizontally, which is a stupid design. But I got it because that's what I grew up with. And I went out of my way to buy the original gun that was gray. And after the law changed, they had to change the gun to the gray and red. I have the orange one. Yeah. So you have the new one. I specifically went out of my way to buy the old one because that's the one I grew up with. See, and I grew up with the orange. I didn't know there was any different because it came with Duck Hunt and Mario. Yep. It was bundled in the NES package. It does, and then in later iterations it came with World Runner or something. Oh, yeah. That was a dumb game. But overall, I think Transformer is great.
    21:50
    Oh, well, on the Optimus Prime. Yeah. Okay, the code's good. The code's good. The code's farther along than a lot of codes at this point. Thank you for watching. We're going through the same thing with Pokemon.
    22:32
    You have to wait for license or approval. Yeah. I think Hasbro was really, really easy to work with on this. I think it's because Dungeons & Dragons turned out so well that they were just like, yeah. So that begs the other question, too. If Hasbro has done Dungeons & Dragons and now Transformers, what else are they going to throw onto the table if they are an option for more pinball in the future? That's actually a good question. I haven't researched this. Have you researched whatever major things, what other major licenses Hasbro has? I did. One of them I think was My Little Pony.
    23:06
    I'm not sure that'll be a big seller with the dad rock crowd, but hey, you know, you can branch out. You know the loaf hanging fruit here that everyone wants, right? G.I. Joe. Yeah. Oh, okay. G.I. Joe. You know what? Maybe. Okay. I'm looking at all the, if they're really going to tap into the nostalgia of the 80s. He-Man could be an option.
    23:29
    Thundercats was kind of a B-roll He-Man. There's a couple of them. I know there's a couple of people like G.I. Joe. And it doesn't help that when you got like... Do you think G.I. Joe would be a big seller though? I'm curious.
    23:42
    I think he'd be on the same plane as Transformers. I see. I would say Transformers. At least sell out and then premiums and pros have to prove themselves. But I would say Transformers is still a better title. I would even say Masters of the Universe would be a bigger title.
    23:59
    That's how this movie goes. Yeah, maybe that's true. Maybe it's on the same level as G.I. Joe, I guess. Maybe. All righty. Let's talk about Transformers. Okay. Speaking of other things. There was another company that released an announcement the same day as Transformers of Don't Spend Your Money.
    24:19
    Oh, poor Jack. So, Jersy Jack did like a, what is that called? A shadow photo with like a blue board behind it. It's like a teaser photo.
    24:29
    What did it say? It seriously said like, don't blink or you'll miss it. And so, and it's Steve Ritchie, obviously. Yep. The rumors. He looks possessed. He's like backlit. So, obviously in June. So, we're in June now. In June. I doubt we're going to see it this week. Sonic the Hedgehog, or at least that's what the rumor is. And my understanding, too, is the video games, not the movies. So, okay, let's talk about Sonic as a license then, okay? So there are lots of iterations of Sonic. So if you're old enough to remember the early days of the console wars, so Sonic was basically Sega's answer to Mario, right? So you had Nintendo, which is an 8-bit system, which was even better than the 4-bit system. There were a lot of great things they did. And then they came out with the Genesis, which was 16-bit. And it did take up the graphics level. Now, I'm sure that Sega spent a ton of money on marketing and making this thing look really cool, which it really did. It definitely, if you compare the original Sonic the Hedgehog game to like the Super Mario Brothers, it's no question that the Sonic the Hedgehog looks really cool.
    25:55
    Didn't really sustain them long term. There were a few games and there was even a Sonic Spinball. Then it kind of went underground for a while. Sega kind of disappeared as a big player in the console wars. Sperry B. My friends had the Super Nintendo, so my mom was like, I'm buying you the Genesis because why have games you can borrow? Yeah, exactly. I guess. I don't know. But I had all the Sonic the Hedgehog games, and they were one after another after another, right? So like Sonic in 91, you've got Sonic 2 in 92, Sonic 3 or Sonic CD in 93, Sonic 3 in 94, Sonic and Knuckles in 94 again. And then they started to space out because it went from Sega Genesis and then the Dreamcast dropped, but it didn't do super well. Dreamcast lost out to Sony, to PlayStation. Yeah, which is sad, but I guess that is what it is, business, right? But then they started spacing out. And then the weird part is these games started getting away from what I felt Sonic was. Yeah. And I grew up on that one too. Like I love spinball. I mean, that's part of where my pinball obsession came from. Okay. My pinball obsession started on Sesame street when they had the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Yes. Yeah. Cause it was a pinball. I was like that is super cool Um okay So I think we can agree that the that the game is the better version right And there like a cartoon of that too He even showed up in Rocket Ralph.
    28:23
    What's wild? Hold on. What's wild? Did you know there was actually two Sonic shows that released at the same time that was airing at the exact same time, Spooky Pinball Inc. I got the Chaos Emeralds and even the names of some of the characters crossed with what's going on with Dragon Ball Z. Hey, didn't Masters of the Universe also come out with two competing ones? One was like a Kevin Smith one, and there was another one in the last two years. I don't know.
    29:23
    Okay, I'm interested. Now, one thing that I think is reasonable to ask, is it going to have a loop-to-loop?
    29:31
    I don't know. Because that's okay. If you're closing your eyes and imagining Sonic, you are imagining him going screaming fast. The graphics are flying by fast and he does that loop-de-loop thing and goes around there. Also, the pop bumpers are those red, blue star. You know how like in the game that you bounce off of those? That's got to be in there as well. That's an easy, that's a pop bumper cover. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What else? Rings all over the place. Yeah. Obviously the spinner, because in the game when you go past a checkpoint, the top of it spins like a spinner. It'd be cool if that was. Here is the problem when we find out about a game, right? Then we start speculating on what it should be. Yeah, we have no idea. So Sonic's coming out, at least. Yes. That's the thing. One thing we can talk about that has been announced but hasn't really shown anything and not much has happened since. Tales of the Arabian Nights was officially announced May 12th, so we're almost at a month now. Yeah. But nothing else has happened? Like, what's going on there? I don't really understand Pendretti's marketing.
    30:40
    I thought Funhaus was a good example of a remake that was not done by CGC. Yeah. Okay. There were definitely some things that I thought were less, excuse me, that could have been done better. And it was their first exposure to the remakes.
    31:04
    I don't think the remakes like the extra, like the Dark Funhouse. Oh, the Brian Allen edition? Well, or Rudy's Nightmare 2.0. Yeah, and so like I didn't feel that that was a market that needed to be tapped. I guess I'll put it that way.
    31:28
    But I'm wondering about their approach because I do – I really do like Tales of the Arabian Nights. I am interested in buying the game. I want to buy the game. I want to put it in my collection because I like having options for people to have some straightforward games when they come down to my game room. It's important for me to not overwhelm people with a whole bunch of rules and be able to say, okay, you should have a fun entry-level game. And I feel that hits that window. Now, are they going to have good quality? That's a good question. Are they going to be reliable? Because reliability is huge to me. Yes. So that especially because I don't I don't have the kind of time to troubleshoot a game. And so and this is, you know, Alien had issues right out of the game. This is the highway alien. So that there were like it was like a fan group who wanted to fix and keep these games alive. I don't have that kind of effort to be able to do that. So I'm hoping that this is a huge hit. I'm hoping that they stick with an option that gives me the original music, the original call-outs, the original code, and the original artwork. Yes. Because that's where Chicago Gaming Company did an excellent job. Now, there were ways that they made it. They modernized it with the DMD, but they modernized it so it looks better. That definitely is a huge deal. There are ways you can modernize something while keeping it consistent with what it was originally. Yeah.
    33:44
    You're a small company who relies on money to keep going. And if you make a big, big misstep, then people are going to be concerned.
    33:55
    One thing is though, so NAP Arcade did post a picture of what I assume to be Brian Allen artwork. Yeah. So I guess someone had went to Planetary Pinball's warehouse in Reno and someone had one of these unboxed right by the garage door. Spooky Pinball Inc. I have the back glass is the Brian Allen version of it and I have the art plates in there that's the Brian Allen version. So I'm not opposed to mixing things up as long as it stays consistent with the theme. I agree and I think there is room to modernize the art and still make it look good. It tells the Arabian Nights art is nice, but it definitely feels dated, which is kind of weird to say.
    35:10
    But yeah, it almost felt like child's book from like the 80s kind of thing. You know what I'm saying? Like a story time. Story time. Yeah. Like Mickey and the Magic Lamp was one of my favorite kids books. Or did you ever get like the Mother Goose series? Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? It was multiple Little Red Riding Hood and stuff like that. You get what I'm saying. Yes. Okay. I will say, though, I like the back glass, Brian Allen's back glass for Medieval Madness better than the original, which is why I have it. I also, on Monster Bash, I like his version better than the original. Yeah. I'm a fan of the original. Yeah. I will say, though, that Medieval Madness does look good. Yeah. So, but no, I think overall, yeah, we're kind of still waiting. So give us more information. We want to play the game. We want to be able to buy the game. We want to be able to market the game and figure out things because if there's one thing I'm a fan of is I'm a fan of the remakes because it definitely comes from an era. There's a reason why people are still buying the Beatles White Album. There are way more complex albums out there that have been generated since then, but it's still a classic game. The one thing that we can talk about that they've announced, but they've trickled it out and I think people have forgotten about it, is they have hired the CGC software and development team. The quality that you know that comes to CGC is now working for Pedretti. So that must mean, A, CGC is no longer in the remake business. They're comfortable with what they've made and they're like, we're done.
    36:51
    And the issues that, like, I own a fun house. I actually really love it. I think it's a really great game and my kids love it. My only complaint is the software sometimes does some weird glitchy things. Yeah. Like Rudy, and it's not anything that was like game hindering. It's just like, why is Rudy's mouth moving, but he's not saying anything. And then it's like, it has a hard time layering. Cause the way that this one works is it's emulating the original code, but they're trying to update and fix the code as well. So it was originally Team Pinball, which if you didn't see that, they threw a fit and did quite the little social media post. Yeah, we'll let them fight that on social media. If you haven't seen it, go check it out, I guess, if that's your cup of tea. But my point being is I'm excited for a Totem because my game has been really, really nice. I've had just that one Switch issue and that's it. And so I have no complaints. I do know people. I will not discredit. I do know people that have messaged me directly that was like, I had this and this and this and this. I get it.
    38:01
    Sometimes you're going to get a lemon out of the box, which really sucks, especially when you're spending this kind of money on a pinball machine. That's why it falls back on the company to make sure that the customer service is top notch. Because you're not going to get 100% perfect every time. So that's why you buy through flipping out because Zach goes above and beyond. Well, especially with the whole Haggis debacle. Yes. Okay, so that is a huge plus that they got a lot of the people who worked on the CGC team. So I have the upgrade. I've been playing the upgrade a lot on Cactus Canyon. I am still amazed by what they were able to do with the upgrade to modernize the game. The game feels on par with Medieval Madness and maybe even above when it comes to the different code options that it has included in there. And there's always something you can do.
    38:59
    I'm not saying it's Godzilla level, but in Godzilla, if you start going down a path, you can keep going down that path. You don't have to say, okay, well, I need to always pull back and go to the main line.
    39:13
    With the Lyman Complete Code, it's excellent. The dots that they did to program it is great. The code looks like it's an updated version, but it also feels consistent with what they made in 1999. That team, I am confident that they can do something very similar for Tales of the Arabian Nights. If they're able to make it a high quality, high reliable game with that presentation, they will have a hit on their hands. I'm just concerned that I have not seen a reliable marketing push for this, which makes me wonder if they have a plan. I'm hoping they do. I don't see it. I think they do.
    40:05
    Yeah. I mean, I guess that's... I agree with you. I think I'm excited for this and we'll see what happens. You know what I'm saying?
    40:14
    Not really much on the CGC front besides what we just kind of discussed. I think they're going to be pretty much like CGC with Play Mechanics. I think Play Mechanics is going to be getting the licensing, developing the games, and then CGC is just going to make it for them. Yeah. Especially with Halo. Halo is definitely a license that Play Mechanics has dealt with before.
    40:36
    I'm hoping that those games are going to translate well. It always feels like you're getting a suboptimal version of something because it's a totally different feeling to play pinball versus playing video games. But hey, we've always asked, hey, Nintendo, please license your video games so we can play. So if it's done well, then I think it could be great.
    41:04
    Should have a grunt, a grunt with his head up in the way of the ramp. And then when you hit the ball, it takes out his head and then confetti pops out and it does the birthday party. Yeah, that would be interesting. You know what? While we're at it, why not? Why don't we have a Mortal Kombat pinball machine?
    41:21
    That is true. It was originally Bally Midway. It's not uncommon to see those. Steve Ritchie was one of the voices in Mortal Kombat. Yeah, he was Shao Kahn. Yeah. For at least the first one. Yeah. So, I don't know. So, CGC not really much up to anything. Oh, American Pinball. They are shipping Houdinis as we speak.
    41:45
    Okay. Does that not excite you? Do you not want a Houdini? Well, okay. I'm not sure what American Pinball is trying to do. And we would love to have them on the show because I want to talk to them and find out what their philosophy is. It seemed like they came out with a bang and they came out with Houdini, which the original one looked great. And then there was obviously a lot of issues. And so they rebooted it and they made a good game. It a tight game and a difficult difficult shooter But hey it Houdini So it like it shouldn be super easy So it made sense They seem to kind of stumble and just not figure out who they were or what their market was even in the second and third iteration with completely new ownership and going a little bit back to the well and to do Houdini
    42:42
    I'm hoping there's at least enough demand that people want that. I know they have so many supply parts for Galactic Tank Force, and so they're going to try to figure out ways of cobbling those together to make a better package. I wish them well. I hope they can do it.
    43:03
    But I'm really wondering where they're going in the future. They also have dipped their toe into the remake market. So, Josh, they announced Circus Voltaire. So, this is a two-part question.
    43:15
    Are you interested in Circus Voltaire? One. Two, do you have confidence that American Pinball can make a good version of Circus Voltaire for you? Yes, I am definitely excited about a Circus Voltaire. It's kind of one of the first games I remember when I got into pinball.
    43:31
    And it's just a really cool, unique game. The rules are fun. The whole circus thing is kind of cool. So, as far as American though, I don't know.
    43:46
    I guess I'd have to play their Houdini, the one that's going shipping right now. Because here's the problem. Didn't they pretty much fire everyone? They may have kept the warehouse people. Yeah, it seems like a wholesale reboot. So, now I will say it's undetermined at this point in my book. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Because I don't know. I'm hoping that they're able to transform this company and if they end up turning it into, hey, we're a manufacturing machine and we'll be able to crank out these remakes and we're able to make them reliable and we're able to make them a reasonable facsimile of what was produced in the 90s, then more power to them. And I really hope that that's what they end up turning out to be because there still are games from the 90s that you can tap into making. So if they can figure out ways of being the manufacturing hub and making a good product, there will be a desire out there for it.
    44:47
    But they have to prove it to me first that they are able to make a good product. Well, my question is like, why Circus Voltaire? So the reason being is it's like we know that Pedretti has gotten multiple licenses. They kind of announced that like when they first revealed Funhaus, you know, I think this is awesome. And just wait to see what else is to come. And it's a handful of licenses.
    45:13
    Why pass up on Circus Voltaire? Because you already had Totem? Do you feel like that's too many J-pop games? I know that Circus Voltaire is different in the fact that the DMD is actually situated in the playfield. It's underneath the playfield, yeah. Sorry, it's underneath the glass. It's in the back of the playfield, yeah. Plus the back box is different than most ones because you have to have that ball. It's interactive, yes. So it's not as straightforward as what you would typically have with any other pinball machine.
    45:50
    My other concern is why are all these companies making Bally Williams games? Is Rick just handing these licenses out to anyone that will approach him? I mean, you've got Haggis who was doing Fathom and they did. They never shipped, well, I guess they shipped one of, why is it blanking? I can see the artwork. It's all black and white. The Sea Witch? Oh, Centaur. Yes, thank you. Centaur. They did Fathom. We've got CGC who did Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars. We've got now Pedretti making remakes.
    46:28
    Cardona is making 2.0 kits. Tim Pinball was making 2.0 kits. Americans now making Circus Voltaire. Like, is this, it seems to be like, we're just handing them out to whoever. And you could argue the quality is varying from each one. Yes. Because they're not a set standard for these. Like, I just, CGC set a pretty high bar in my opinion when they made those games.
    46:56
    So they took forever though. If CGC made them faster, I think CGC would have been the only company doing these. I think about how, okay, we're 10 years into the remakes and CGC made four of them in 10 years.
    47:15
    I don't place it solely on their shoulders. I think you have a slow company that also had probably a combination, but I'm just saying there is slow also as well as approvals. I would also say, though, when they started making Medieval Madness, there was a huge demand because we were just starting to get into the second golden age of pinball, which we're in right now, where great games are being made. But, you know, in the 2000s, you had, it was a wasteland. They only made like four or five games that I would consider owning today. Okay. I get you. But now there are four or five games a year that I would consider buying. So now you're competing with a Godzilla. Now you're competing with a new Star Wars game. Now you're competing with Dune. Now you're competing with Harry Potter.
    48:16
    And unless you really have a soft spot for the remake, I think the modern games are going to be a stiffer competition. And so you're really focusing on the nostalgia, the nostalgia buyer.
    48:30
    I think so as well. And a lot of these games in the late, you know, after this spike of Adam's Family and all that, they really started slowing down in quantity. And so I think there is room for these.
    48:43
    I just find it wild that like, I don't know, I feel bad picking on anyone and be like, this is crap. And this is fantastic. Okay, the Alice in Wonderland kit that you buy for $1,000.
    48:59
    Nobody wants that. You shouldn't. I'm talking about they sold like a million dollars worth of those in like the Kickstarter or whatever. I don't know. Okay. Do you want me to pull out the Tommy Boy quote about, well, I'll take a dump in a box and label it guaranteed. It's true, but did you see the Kong R Us video, B. Kong's video? Sperry B. Thank you for watching. Sperry B. Whether or not it's a commercially viable game versus a home hobby project. If they really want Turtles, are they going to pass up the Stern version and buy this HomeKit version? No, they're not. Yeah, but I would assume it's in the same realm of like you're not going to license Ninja Turtle Toys to Hasbro and then Ninja Turtle Toys to Playmates. I don't know who the other competitor was. That's who I remember growing up. But you just don't do two action figures. I would assume it's the same way of like, Stern doesn't get to keep the license for Ninja Turtles. I would say the Venn diagram of people buying a Play Mechanics pinball or whatever, the Wonderland pinball machine versus buying a Stern pinball machine, there's zero overlap in that. Yeah, but there had to have been a lot more is what I'm saying. How many Alice in Wonderland's with their margins versus how many Stern sold of Ninja Turtles versus their margins. You see what I'm saying here? I get what you're saying. It seems like, yeah, it's a little bit of an overlap, but I don't see it being a critical overlap. And who knows? Maybe Stern has vaulted Turtles. They're not making any more. Yeah, true. Maybe the license is done.
    52:08
    I don't know. Just wild. Wild in my opinion. It's just, especially like if, I don't know, I guess it may just come down to dollar and cent sometimes, but imagine having Stern's Ninja Turtles in your coffee room at your business and also Wonderland Amusements Ninja Turtles. If you have that picture, please send it to us. Yes, please. We would love to see it.
    52:32
    All righty. What else we got here? Spooky's still making Beetlejuices. Yeah, and it's still an amazing theme environment for Beetlejuice. If you're a fan, I think you'll be a fan of that game.
    52:48
    Barrels of Fun is still producing. I think they just wrapped up Dune and they're working on Winchester. And if I remember correctly, they said they should be wrapping up Winchester in September-ish time. I will say I did not buy a Winchester because it was sold out within 48 hours. I am definitely going to pick up Carl's next game because I want to play it. I was heavily considering Winchester. And it's funny because they announced on Tuesday before Expo, I said, Zach, I think I'm interested. I just really want to go play this game. Yep. By the time I played it at Expo on Thursday, it was all sold out. Mm-hmm. So my philosophy, you've got to play it before you buy it. Well, okay. Felt the deal on that one. However, you still can buy it, Josh.
    53:39
    I'm not paying $18,000 for that. But I am saying those are unicorns. I think that pretty much does it for everything on our list. There's not really many other companies doing anything at the moment. A lot of them are saying hush-hush. I guess we could hurry and throw out there. Multimorphic did just announce today. One of the biggest complaints is the button configuration on the side. You can now buy different button configurations for your game. And then the Flipper Mechs. There's some new plates to help kind of keep it more sturdier in the game. They're slowly implementing, I guess, updates to their game system. So that's what you want. You want them to keep working on it. No, I totally agree. And I think that I really do think that like they are doing really good. And I think it is good for them that they held off instead of showing in March. I know that like, yes, they say that TPF was where they stake their flag. But when you're holding off to sell games like six to eight months later or to actually ship them out, it's hard to keep people. Better when you announce games that you can sell them right then. People have very short attention spans. Yep. Yep, I agree. So I think that does it for us, Scott.
    54:55
    If you want to get a hold of us, we're Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. On all the socials, at Loser Kid Pinball. If you want some silver ball swag, the Loser Kid Pinball Metallica shirt, or maybe a Funhouse shirt with Scott Nye's face on it pointing at you, hit us up. We're also doing Patreon. We're also doing the Ultimate Spooky Game right now because that was highly requested. What's funny is Jersy Jax actually kind of followed the Pinside ratings pretty closely. Those have went out the window with this one. Because here's the thing, Looney Tunes and TNA are like 6th and 8th on the list, and I don't understand how they are lower than some of the other games above them. First round's going on right now. Go vote. It's free to vote. Go sign up. Whatever. Scott, give us our last words. Yeah, no, definitely. I want to know what you guys are looking for. I want to know what you guys are looking forward to in the games. And, okay, validate me. Is having like a really cool moment in a game, is that a game breaker if your expectation is pulled out? But I'm really curious because I think it's a qualified maybe. So let me know on that.
    56:11
    Thank you.