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WAP #1 "There's some bros in this house! Test Pilot episode"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 1m·analyzed·Jun 1, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

WAP debut: Stern factory visit, market concerns, pricing crisis, Metallica/Godzilla rumors

Summary

We Are Pinball (WAP) test episode features Don Garrison and Genghis discussing Don's recent Stern factory visit, the John Wick release strategy, and widespread industry concerns about pricing, market saturation, and distributor pressure. Topics include rumors of Metallica and black-and-white Godzilla anniversary editions, the unsustainable three-tier pricing model, distributor inventory crisis, and secondary market devaluation of premium/LE machines.

Key Claims

  • Stern has capacity for three production lines, currently running two with backstock/accessories on the middle line

    high confidence · Don's direct observation during factory tour

  • Expression lights are likely the bottleneck delaying LE shipments for John Wick, costing ~$750 total to retrofit Pro/Premium models

    medium confidence · Don's analysis based on factory observation; part shortage cited by Stern

  • Godzilla 70th anniversary edition pricing will be $12,500+, positioned as premium rather than LE despite similar cost to original LE

    medium confidence · Genghis speculation based on pricing pattern following Jurassic Park 30th precedent

  • Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary edition destroyed secondary market value of original JP LE from $17,000-$19,000 to <$13,000

    high confidence · Don's direct market observation

  • Pinball Brothers Ripley edition undercut standard Alien edition pricing, forcing distributors to unbox and place unsold inventory on location

    high confidence · Genghis personal distributor experience

  • ABBA is first Stern game in 10 years that Genghis's distributor didn't order due to poor new-in-box demand signals

    high confidence · Genghis's distributor account; acknowledges John Wick also not ordered

  • Metallica pinball rumored for Spike 3 with screen, scheduled for release coinciding with Ride the Lightning 40th anniversary (July 27, 2024)

    medium confidence · Community rumors; Don/Genghis speculation connecting July anniversary timing

  • Used Venom LE available for under $9,000 less than a year after $13,000 LE launch

    high confidence · Don's friend's secondary market purchase

  • Distributors are dealing unsold inventory through secondary market claims (damage, lost boxes) to clear stock

    medium confidence · Genghis industry knowledge; candid assessment of distributor tactics

Notable Quotes

  • “Everything is all in one place. I'm looking over these cubicles, and here's the guy that's working on getting Stern Army banners out to every location. Here's a group working on Insider Connected. Here's a group working on graphics.”

    Don @ early — Reveals Stern's organizational structure and internal initiatives; shows corporate infrastructure investment

  • “I'm running my own little pinball refinery here... people want to buy your modded games. You've got to be proud of that.”

    Genghis @ mid — Highlights the premium market for customized/upgraded machines; Don's business model inadvertently created secondary ecosystem

  • “I sold it before the topper came out, before all the modes were finished... Jaws is still not even close to 1.0 code yet, and I'm selling it. So I know even more is going to be in there.”

    Don @ mid — Identifies key problem: selling premium machines before code maturity disadvantages buyers; code updates add significant value post-purchase

  • “When they get these latest LE prices and VAT on top of that, this show is international. It's not U.S. only. It's the whole world. Some places we pay higher taxes. We pay higher VAT and higher shipping costs. It is what it is internationally. It's just too much.”

    Genghis @ mid-late — Highlights critical international pricing issue; EU distributors paying 25% VAT + $1,000 shipping on top of MSRP, making EU LE pricing exceed US LE prices

  • “So we have the limited edition on stock and the limited edition is just too expensive compared to the Ripple edition... A month, two months went by. It's just impossible for us to sell the normal standard version. That's a big move.”

    Genghis @ late — Distributor forced to unbox and deploy inventory due to surprise re-release undermining old SKU; signals poor communication between Stern and distribution partners

  • “2024, no matter what you come up with, maximum price should be $10,000. Yeah. That's maximum. Yeah.”

    Don/Genghis @ late — Community consensus forming around sustainable pricing ceiling; suggests $13K+ pricing unsustainable

Entities

Don GarrisonpersonGenghis (Cengiz/Retro Jango)personStern PinballcompanyJohn Wick PinballgameGodzilla 70th Anniversary EditiongameMetallica PinballgameZach Sharpperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Distributor compensation model broken; forced to absorb discounting losses without manufacturer rebates; Stern previously allowed Rush/Turtles price reductions but distributors 'ate it'; distributors now clearing inventory through secondary market fraud tactics (damage claims)

    high · Genghis: 'Stern did a great thing... allowed distros to go under on two titles... But who took the hit? That was the distro. Stern did not say, here's your dealer's rebate.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Three-tier pricing model ($10K Pro / $12K Premium / $13-15K LE) creating unsustainable margin compression; distributors forced to clear inventory through secondary market tactics; first Stern game in decade (ABBA) not pre-ordered by major distributor due to demand weakness

    high · Genghis: 'It's just too hard to sell right now... ABBA is the first game for 10 years we are not going to put up on our showroom.' Don: 'Something has to give.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing consensus that maximum sustainable MSRP is $10,000; international community particularly price-sensitive due to VAT (25%+) + shipping costs; hosts agree $10K ceiling essential for market viability

    high · Genghis: 'when they get these latest LE prices and VAT on top of that... it's just too much.' Don/Genghis: '2024, no matter what you come up with, maximum price should be $10,000. That's maximum.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern factory visit demonstrates manufacturer engagement with media/community; organized 25-person media day; planned public visitor center at factory; transparency about production capacity and code development; George Gomez walked through John Wick screen synchronization features

    high · Don: 'About 25 of us were invited to Chicago... the beginning of some relationship building between ourselves and the community and Stern Pinball, which was fantastic.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.184

0:00
Well, what's up out there, pinball fans? This is a brand new endeavor of a pincast called We Are Pinball. W.A.P. Join the WAP. Myself and Retro Jango himself, Mr. Jenga, is out of Denmark. Myself, Don Garrison, from the United States of Freedomland, are collaborating transnationally, transatlantically, to convey the awesomeness that is pinball to the masses. What's up? Genghis, how you doing? What's up, my dear friend? Oh, I'm so happy about this. This is WAP. Welcome to WAP, everybody. We are pinball. You are pinball. We are pinball. Everybody is pinball. We love pinball. And we just know that the pinball world just needs another podcast show. Right, Don? The universe is now ready for this. I don't think they could have handled it before, but this magnitude of freshness is about to drop on them. And we are here but servants of the silver ball. Oh, yeah, baby. Don, how many names came we out with before WAP? We should have compiled a list. At least 47, and all of them were completely terrible until you, sir, texted me this morning with WAP.
1:21
Oh, man. So a couple of days ago, we started brainstorming. we were talking about Vox Pinball, Slingshot Pinball, Double Super Jackpot Pinball. Rusty Balls. Yeah, absolutely. So we ended up actually with Euro-American Pinball or International Pinball Podcast. I'm getting nauseous thinking about that. God. Yeah. So this morning I hit up this paddle place, and at the entrance they had this big sign that said, WAP. We are paddle. And I was just instantly, I took a picture, sent it to you, Don, and I was like, Don, what do you think about it? And you said, this is it. That's it. We are pinball. That's who we are. That can't be misconstrued any other way. It's safe for your grandma. Let's go with it.
2:10
Absolutely. So, everybody, this is episode one. Don and I, you know Don from Don's Pinball Podcast, and you know me, Cengiz, from Retro Cengiz YouTube channel. We are going to do this. maybe weekly, maybe every second week. We don't know all the details yet, but we're going to talk about what's going on right now about pinball. We're going to talk about the different companies. We're going to talk about the rumors, upcoming games. We're just going to have some pinball fun. So let's just go directly into it and start everything with Don Visiting Stern. Don, how was it, man? It's been a week. Let's hear it. It's been a week, man. And so I was sitting at home minding my own business when I get this marketing email from Zach Sharp from Stern Pinball. Hey, Don, would you mind coming by the factory? We'll cover some expenses, and you can check out our new John Wick game. And I texted back, well, yes, sir. Thank you very much. I'd love to do that. Come to find out, about 25 of us were invited to Chicago, flown in from around the country, to descend on what was essentially a big media day for the John Wick release, but also the beginning of some relationship building between ourselves and the community and Stern Pinball, which was fantastic. And we had a great time. You want to recap it? I think, Don, it's so cool because about this time last year, you started all this pinball podcast show. And last year we made a show, and I was like, this is Donnie. He's such a cool guy. and now, a year later, just one year later, you're just balling, just going, drinking some drinks with Gary Stone. What? I mean, in a year you have reached the skies, man. It's so cool. I'm so proud of you. It's so cool. How was it to hang out with Gary Stone and Gomez? It was amazing to cut to the chase, but I could run down the whole day, but I played a four-player game of Pulp Fiction with the Loser Kids, myself and George Gomez. It was George Gomez's first time playing Pulp Fiction and I got to play with him. So that's how the day went, if you want to know. It's so cool. So how is Turn Factory? Is it as big as everybody's saying? Yes. Even by American standards it's large. It's a huge establishment here. There's a giant warehouse, of course, where they're producing the machines. They have a separate site off-site where they do the woodworking for the cabinetry. But the cabinets come in on stacked on pallets. Everything is spray-painted black. It could be any game from the most expensive LE to the cheap pro version. And they just have them ready to go, standard size, right off the pallets. They welcomed us all in there. The front of house is the offices. The half of it is cubicles. The other half is space that's going to be set up for the public to be able to come in, to just come in off the street as a visitor, come play Stearns pinball games, meet some of the people, and then I think they're going to do factory tours for the public, too, that can be set up. Oh, that's so cool. Everything is all in one place. I'm looking over these cubicles, and here's the guy that's working on getting Stern Army banners out to every location. Here's a group working on Insider Connected. Here's a group working on graphics. Here's a group working on translights for things and toppers and backstock and ordering things. It's all happening right there. So we were led through the factory in one big group. About 80% of it we were allowed to take photographs of, which was fantastic. The lines are running. The games are moving on there. Just like almost an endless line of LE, John Wicks, and premiums were being run while we were there.

  • International pricing (VAT + shipping) makes LE machines cost more than US premium prices; maximum sustainable price should be $10,000 MSRP

    high confidence · Genghis's direct distributor perspective on EU/Scandinavian markets

  • “Stern did a great thing. They actually allowed distros to go under on two titles... But who took the hit? Was it Stern or was it the distros? That was the distro. Stern did not say, here's your dealer's rebate for doing that.”

    Genghis @ late — Reveals distributor pressure: forced discounting without manufacturer compensation; unsustainable model

  • “For the last many, many years, I've been in the industry for 20 years. I have unboxed everything... But now, now, 2024, for the first time, I'm getting messages... Where's ABBA? Come on. Your sales have to be through the roof.”

    Genghis (Retro Jango) @ late — First new Stern game in a decade that distributor didn't order; dramatic signal of market softening

  • “Picture this game with Ride the Lightning graphic treatment, expression lights in the back box and the cabinet, and live concert footage on the screen... For $9,995. Sold.”

    Genghis @ late — Community speculation on Metallica special edition features and acceptable pricing tier

  • “I think picking up a Stern is not a safe bet... It's just whether or not you need to get it new in box or not.”

    Don @ end — Reflects broader industry concern: new-in-box purchases becoming risky due to secondary market devaluation and code maturation timelines

    • George Gomez
    person
    Tim Sextonperson
    Pinball Brotherscompany
    ABBA Pinballgame
    Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary Editiongame
    We Are Pinball (WAP)organization
    Foo Fighters Pinballgame
    Venom Pinballgame
    Jaws 50th Anniversary Pinballgame
    Alien Pinballgame
    Ripley Edition (Alien variant)game
    James Bond Pinballgame
    Godfather Pinballgame
  • ?

    licensing_signal: IP licensing strategy affects re-release timing; black-and-white Godzilla positions as 'new version' to justify separate SKU; Stern learning from Elvira multi-release model; Spooky committed to 750-unit Rick & Morty cap per IP contract

    medium · Genghis: 'This is a new version... Different art package and everything. I think that's why they went and did it with Elvira so many times.'

  • $

    market_signal: Distributor inventory crisis severe; machines not moving from showrooms; trade-in and used game sales growing as percentage of total transactions; social media showing high volume of used Pro/Premium inventory from distributors; distros filled with unsold games (e.g., Godfather)

    high · Genghis: 'Distros are just filled up with games. They can't sell games. Trade-ins are getting more and more popular... Facebook Marketplace... it's craziness, man. It's a bias market right now.'

  • $

    market_signal: Secondary market devaluation accelerating; used Venom LE available under $9,000 within 12 months of $13,000 launch; JP LE market collapsed from $17-19K to <$13K after 30th Anniversary release; Foo Fighters LE at $9,000

    high · Don: 'My friend that bought a gently used Venom LE for under $9,000... imagine paying $13,000 for that and not even a year later $9,000 under.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Don's machine curation strategy evolved; shifted from selling immediately pre-code-completion to holding longer; selling Foo Fighters/Venom/Jaws before code mature meant missing value additions; buyers found Don's modded machines valuable enough to create secondary market demand

    high · Don: 'A better strategy would be to pick maybe one game a year to hang on to and let that code get older... I am kind of missing out on that.'

  • $

    market_signal: International pricing barrier critical; EU market facing 25% VAT + $1,000 shipping on $10-13K base price; effective EU pricing 35-40% higher than US MSRP; first-time major demand signal coming from Scandinavian distributor indicating market saturation

    high · Genghis: 'I have to pay more than an LE for you in the U.S... My brother here in Scandinavia... It's just too hard to sell right now. It's just people are interested. But when they get these latest LE prices and VAT on top of that... it's just too much.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: John Wick LE shipments delayed; expression lights identified as likely bottleneck; Pro shipping now, Premium shipping now, LE delayed pending expression light component availability

    medium · Don: 'The LE has all the parts that the Premium does... I think that's what's limiting them being able to complete LEs... when they get the lights in, I think that's what's limiting'

  • ?

    product_strategy: John Wick three-tier model differentiates through expression lights (LE/Premium only), cosmetic cabinet/backglass graphics, and speaker lights; expression lights cost ~$750 to retrofit; Premium/LE pricing gap driven by proprietary light systems rather than gameplay features

    high · Don: 'With John Wick, you're also getting the expression lights in the back box for the speaker lights too... That's going to be like $750 for lights... node board that comes with it too.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Godzilla 70th Anniversary black-and-white edition in development; positioned as premium tier (~$12,500 MSRP) rather than LE despite similar pricing to original LE; follows Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary precedent; Stern response to LE backlash

    medium · Genghis: 'This is a new version... Different art package and everything.' Don: 'This was going to be an LE until they got that blowback... it's probably what happened.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Metallica pinball in development; rumored for Spike 3 platform with screen; timing suggests coordination with Ride the Lightning 40th anniversary (July 27, 2024); community expects ~$10,000 MSRP max

    medium · Don: 'Rumors are saying it will be Spike 3. It will have a screen... live concert footage.' Genghis: 'July 27, 1984... 40th anniversary of Metallica's Ride the Lightning will be in July, right when these games are supposed to be being made.'

    • 5:44
    Do they have multiple games? Do they have two, three, four lines of different games, or is it one game production? So they have capacity for three lines being produced.
    5:56
    And right now they have two, and the middle one is kind of used as a backstock area, and half of it is used for accessories. So there's a couple ladies over there that are just assembling toppers and building expression lights and doing it all right there. So, yeah, I mean, they can – So didn't you ask, George, if you have these people here building the toppers, why are the toppers always delayed a year or two? What's going on, George? That will remain a mystery.
    6:23
    He was kind of cagey about that, you know. But they did say, you know, we do want to try to get accessories out closer to the launch of our games. and I'm still waiting for a UV kit for my Stranger Things in 2024.
    6:38
    And part of it, I don't, now they keep citing parts. I don't know what part is holding it up. I think they did do a redesign of their expression lights, he said. So the LEDs that they were using before, they're coming from somewhere else now. They've upgraded that. So I don't know if that caused a delay. But these aren't just arriving on a shipping container from China completely completed and ready to sell, you know. And they're not selling 10,000 of a thing. So it's still a labor hand-built process, and I think that's where the bottleneck is. Absolutely, man. So, Don.
    7:14
    Yeah, dude. The $1,000 question. Usually when you go into these company visits, you end up buying a game from them, just like at Spooky's Place, you know.
    7:25
    So the $1,000 question. You played John Wick. Did you buy a John Wick? So I'll answer that in two parts, okay? Yeah. First off, I thought the game was fun. I thought it was compelling. I'm happy about where the code is going. I bought myself one. Yes!
    7:45
    But which one? That's the question. Which one? Yeah. Donnie, if we should guess, right, I know you. You won't go for the pro because I know you. And I know most of your games for this last year, you have bought like 36 brand new games. And most of them were premium versions. Correct. And those premium games, you just beef them up to the next. Some of your premiums are better than Ellie's. You just do so much great stuff. And I just love to see it on the side here. But on this game, I know you are very excited about that back glass. We're very excited about the candles on the cabinet of the LE. So for me, it's like 50-50 between premium and LE. But, yeah. I think on episode two, you should tell which one you got. That's fair. I will say that the pros are out on locations. The premiums are actually shipping right now, and the LEs are coming next week. So I think one way or another in the next week or so, I'll have my game, and so then I'll be able to do the reveal. Oh, man, it's so cool. So usually they make Pro, LE, and Premium. So is it, again, part shortage since they shot the LEs? Yeah, that's what I think. So, you know, they're running Premiums right now, so the LE has all the parts that the Premium does. The only difference being the cabinet graphics and back glass, which they had plenty of those. They had stacks of back glasses. All the cabinets already had their art in them. Okay. So then, you know, Shaker Motors, I'm sure that's not a part shortage. Invisiglass, I don't think that's a part shortage. I think what it might be is actually the expression lights because that's the one thing that the LE ships with, the premium doesn't ship with. So if they don't have enough lights yet, they can run those premiums out of the factory. And then, you know, when they get the lights in, I think that's what's limiting, you know, them being able to complete LEs and get them out is my thought. Wouldn't it be cool? How much does those expression lights cost? 400, right? Good question. When they first came out for Led Zeppelin, they were about $400. Then they were $450 or so for Rush. I think they were $500 for Foo Fighters. But with John Wick, you're also getting the expression lights in the back box for the speaker lights too. So that's going to be a price. And it's not just speaker lights. I mean, there's a node board that comes with it too. So, you know, it's nothing. You can't replicate that exactly, or at least no one's been able to crack that yet. So if we're looking at $500 at least for the cabinet lights, the back box lights, I would imagine it would be another $250. So that's going to be like $750 for lights to deck out your Pro or your Premium if you want to get the same look. Yeah. I mean, now they will have the option on the cabinet to install the expression lights on the Pro and Premium. Yes. Not like on Foo Fighters. So it could be so cool if Stern did something like Premium Plus. And if you bought the Plus, expression lights were already installed. So when you unboxed it, just pay whatever, 500 more, 600 more, and it's just ready to go. Because most of us want those expression lights. I mean, 10,000 or 10,500. You know what they're going to say? They're going to say, Cengiz, we've already done that. It's called the Limited Edition. It's right here. Order it today, please.
    11:17
    We have so many coming to Europe. 500, 600 more, not 3,000 more, but I know what you mean. But wouldn't it be cool if you had the option on the Pro and Premium models, just buy a Plus model for a couple of hundreds more. It could be awesome, man. But I'm happy that you tried the game, that you fell in love with the game, because last year you said you actually wanted to buy every Stern release. I said I wanted to buy the next four, and so this is the fourth one. This is the fourth one. So I remember when you bought your Foo Fighters and you needed to buy the Venom, you sold the old one and got Venom, and then you sold your Venom and got… Jaws. Jaws, yeah. So did you sell your Jaws and get this one, or how is it? Yeah, so word got out that I was doing this. So people were reaching out. They're like, Don, I like what you do to these machines. I'd like to be on the list to get your next machine when you're done with it, like I'm running my own little pinball refinery here. I've seen that on your Facebook page. When you show your premium upgrading stuff, people are riding there. Don, when this one comes for sale, I want to buy it. In a market like this, people want to buy your modded games. You've got to be proud of that. I mean... Yeah, so a friend of mine in town bought the Foo Fighters. That was done up just like the LE with expression lights and everything. A guy reached out from an arcade in Minnesota and picked up my Venom, which was one of my best builds ever. And then before I even got Jaws, I had a Seattle-based arcade reach out, and they already bought it, so... Okay. Well, that's cool, man. I could not have foreseen that going as well as it did. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be fun to just have the new game and then take a little bit of a loss on it and have the next new game just as they were coming, you know? I mean, if it's a small loss, it's okay. But if it's a 3,000, 4,000 loss, then it's not okay. I mean, then you have to have a lot of money. Here's the other problem with doing that is you're selling games before the code is really matured. So with Foo Fighters, I sold it before the topper came out, before all the modes were finished. Venom still doesn't have accessories even out for it yet. and Jaws is still not even close to 1.0 code yet, and I'm selling it. So I know even more is going to be in there. So I am kind of missing out on that. So I think a better strategy would be to pick maybe one game a year to hang on to and let that code get older, and then you can go back and pick something up down the road. So are you thinking about getting Foo Fighters again maybe? I don't know. I played the ever-loving hell out of Foo Fighters. I played it ever long, man. I know that feeling. How about James Bond? That code is incredible now. Are you thinking about getting that game? No. Does the theme say? No. Okay, okay. Theme is important. I don't like it. Theme is very important. So it's another thing. Like I like to go for the premium because there's usually, you know, it's the fully featured game. There's more mechanisms in it. But James Bond is just a game where the premium features aren't compelling really at all.
    14:26
    You know, almost like, you know, I think John Wick has more compelling premium features than James Bond even does. So James Bond, you'd be fine with the pro, but then, you know, I don't know. And the code, it's just the theme doesn't grab me, man. You know, Godfather looks like a beautiful game, but I just don't find myself wanting to play it that much, you know. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Okay, bro, congratulations with the Dunwick. I'm really happy for you. I can't wait to see you making the unboxing video and all of that great stuff. and you're showing something cool on the camera that I won't share with the audience.
    15:04
    I'm bringing the weapons to John Wick in the form of a shooter rod. And it looks, I'm telling you guys, be ready. Don is going all the way. Oh my God it looks awesome Okay let jump over to the next stern rumor So many stern rumors yeah Yeah so many rumors out there guys So we are hearing that Metallica is on the way, and we are hearing a black and white version of Godzilla. I want to talk to you about Godzilla first. Because Godzilla, we can't call it a remake or blah, blah, blah, Because Godzilla is still on the line. You can go to any marketplace and get a lot, a lot of Godzilla premiums out for sale now. You can buy brand new from your distributors. Everybody has got a Godzilla on inventory. And now they're building more Godzillas. Yes. Are they going to cost as much as a Godzilla premium? Because it's not going to be a Godzilla LE. It's going to be a Godzilla premium, right? Right. Right, and it's not going to cost the same as a premium. It's going to cost almost as much as an LE. Watch.
    16:16
    So it's a game that stands in front of the window and gets completely faded and loses all the color palette, and it has got only black, white, and grayish, and then it costs like $4,000 more? Yeah, and you're going to buy it and be happy with it. No.
    16:35
    So this was going to be an LE until they got that blowback, and then they didn't want to say that they made any more LEs again. It's probably what happened. Wait, wait. I hate that blowback. I hate it. I think they should just be allowed to make whatever. I mean, there was so much media stuff. Everybody was against Stern. Everybody was against George Gomez and Seth. I mean, this company, Stern, is here to make money. If they want to make 70th anniversary version where they want to make 1,070 of Godzillas, They should be allowed to do that I mean let them do that And charge me $13,000 So you know They're not remaking Godzilla limited edition exactly like it was before This is a new version Different art package and everything And I think that's why they went and did it with Elvira so many times Because each version was it's own thing And I think that's what they used to kind of Market the Jurassic Park 30th You know which was essentially just a redress Of the regular Jurassic Park yeah So, I don't know On the one hand, the people that have owned LEs Have got to enjoy it for years, right? So who cares if there's more But at the same time, this is why Spooky won't remake Rick and Morty Because they said 750 is all they're making And they won't revisit that well again Even though it would totally sell And even a black and white version of What would a black and white version of Rick and Morty look like?
    18:00
    So, you know But they did say, you know, if they were going to do Rick and Morty It would be a completely different, brand new game I think that'd still be awesome absolutely man it's a cool theme we we love that theme i mean so back when we got jurassic park 30th edition i think it was called yeah the market back then the jurassic park le was on sale for like 17 000 for a three-year-old use game 17 000 some people wanted 19 000 for their Jurassic Park LEs. And this 30th edition came out and what happened? It just same day, all the LEs just tanked in value. You can't really charge. You have to charge under $13 now for your LE because you can buy a brand new LE.
    18:51
    So, I mean, this thing with, I mean, you have got a Godzilla now with colors on it. Are you thinking about selling that one and get this anniversary edition? I mean, I thought about it. Realistically, what could I do? I could probably sell it for $7,500 pretty quick. But then if I have to come up with the rest of the $12,500 that this thing is going to cost,
    19:14
    I'm spending $5,000 just to get another Godzilla that I already have. I don't know if that's worth it to me.
    19:20
    I mean, so what's included since that price gap from a premium? I really want to know that. I really want to have George Gomez here. Yeah, it can't just be. be a premium. It's got to come with Invisiglass and shaker motor and a shooter rod. A black and white topper would be great. And some really nice, stunning graphics on the side, like foil LE style. And then just call it the 70th Anniversary Edition and don't hang an edition number on it. But that's the only way I can see justifying that. And put those expression lights in the back box. Yeah, but topper and all of that, that's not going to happen. It's definitely not going to happen. It's not going to happen, but it could be amazing man I mean I love the game it's probably my favorite game still I actually prefer the pro version on Godzilla I think the speed is much much cooler on the pro version but I don't know I think I just feel like it's too soon to release it maybe wait till the end of the year or something I mean release Metallica before man it's just I feel like it's too soon so I got a text the other day that reminded me of something, and that was that the anniversary for Metallica's Ride the Lightning album is coming up in July. Yeah? July 27, 1984.
    20:41
    Oh, man. That's what, 40th anniversary of Metallica's Ride the Lightning will be in July, right when these games are supposed to be being made. If they come out with a Ride the Lightning edition, I'll have to find some money somewhere. I mean, we all love Metallica music. and this game. Rumors are saying it will be Spike 3. It will have a screen. We can see Metallica concert. Oh, my God. I mean, the layout. I've played this game for 10 years. It's standard John Bork layout. It's standard loop, ramp, ramp, and a backstory in the middle. It's not the craziest layout. And the code for that game is Chopping Woody code. But still the music. I mean, 50% of people's enjoyment is the music. So I think. So picture this game with Ride the Lightning graphic treatment, expression lights in the back box and the cabinet, and live concert footage on the screen. Exactly. Come on. For $9,995. Sold.
    21:46
    Yeah. 2024, no matter what you come up with, maximum price should be $10,000. Yeah. That's maximum. Yeah. If you want to be a part of the WAP team, this is it. That's it. 10K maximum. Because, you know, my brother here in Scandinavia, he sells all these pinball models, machines. It's just too hard to sell right now. It's just people are interested. I mean, they really want to buy these games. They visit our showroom. They try these games. They know they cost a bit, but when they get these latest LECE prices and VAT on top of that, this show is international. It's not U.S. only. It's the whole world. Some places we pay higher taxes. We pay higher VAT and higher shipping costs. It is what it is internationally. It's just too much. We just can't sell them. So something has to give. Something has to happen. Just too much over here, man. Yeah. I don't know if they need to look at economies of scale or something and find ways that they can just trim some percentage off, especially for our value-added tax zone friends. Because, man, imagine getting hit in the face with that. Yeah, man. So when I see these release videos where it says, you know, 10,000 MSRP for the premium, and I'm like, yeah, and 25% VAT on top of that is like 2,500 more for me. And plus 1,000 shipping. So when I'm thinking about the premium, I have to pay more than an LE for you in the U.S. I mean, they have to think about that also. It's a lot of money. And rumors are saying that distros are just filled up with games. They can't sell games. Trade-ins are getting more and more popular right now. Used game sales are getting more and more popular. Have you seen Facebook Marketplace? how many used pros and premium models are out there from different distros.
    23:55
    It's craziness, man. It's a bias market right now. It's got to be so scary to be a distributor right now, you know, because you've got to place that order or you're not going to get games. And if you don't order enough of the right games, you won't get enough of the stellar one that's coming next. But then you're going to be stuck with a garage full of Godfathers that you can't move. Let me give you some details about that. I will be an asshole telling this, but I'm just going to tell it. It is how it is, okay? So we sell for Pimple Brothers. I love Pimple Brothers Alien. I love that game, right? So we have Alien on locations. We have Alien on our showrooms. And when people want to buy an Alien, they can come and try them. Okay, and the cool part is our showroom is so big, so people are coming. Germany is just underneath. They can just drive to Denmark or people from Sweden visit us. It's so cool. Amazing community here. Okay.
    24:49
    The thing is, so we have these games on, what's it called? New in boxes, of course. And all of a sudden, without telling us distros anything, Pinball Brothers releases this Ripley edition. Okay. Yeah. And we have the limited edition on stock. and the limited edition is just too expensive compared to the Ripple edition. We have the standard version on stock, but the Ripple edition is so much cooler than the standard version and it's cheaper.
    25:30
    A month, two months went by. It's just impossible for us to sell the normal standard version. That's a big move. Okay, so what did we do? now you're talking about hard for for distros yeah we have to unbox them and put them out on our locations the sv versions to make money i mean we buy the game for ourselves but it's a dick move come on give us a hint say something a new version come on man ripley edition more like rip me off edition and we talk i mean we talk with auto distros they feel the same way but the problem is as you're saying it's not fun to be a distro right now as you're saying we could save our asses because we can just put it out on on location right all the distros that doesn't run seven locations they don't have that i know some of them open the boxes and say hey this was damage on the transport 2000 off sub oh you know how it is this one fell off the truck somehow i don't know what happened Yeah, it just fell out. Yeah, it has got a scratch here. Gosh, yeah. Also, some of them, oh, I didn't know I had this game. It just came into my storage. I mean, people need to – yeah, yeah. And, you know, yeah, it is like that. Okay, Jersey Jack, you can't do nothing with the prices. Look at the Jersey Jack market, how distros – I mean, they're coming out with this amazing – We sold this, and it had a board issue and came back. Now you can buy 2,500 on the market. I mean, it's a brand new game. You can just see it. The keys are still locked on that launcher. You know how it is. But something has to give because some time ago, Stern did a great thing. They actually allowed distros to go under on two titles. Was it – oh, do you remember which games it was? I don't. Oh, wait, yeah, Rush. Wasn't it Rush and one other game?
    27:39
    Yeah, I don't remember now. No, it's not that they – No, Turtles. It was Turtles. Turtles, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you were allowed to go down in prize, and it was okay. But who took the hit? Was it Stern or was it the distros? That was the distro. Stern did not say, here's your dealer's rebate for doing that. No, they were like, you can publicly advertise this below cost, and you can eat it. And we talk to all the distros around the world. And if you have a distro friend that says, no, I'm selling amazing. It's perfect. That guy's lying. It is what it is. That guy is lying.
    28:13
    Don, on my YouTube channel, we're open here. We're just sharing everything. We are pinball. Okay, we're pinball. On my YouTube channel, for the last many, many years, I've been in the industry for 20 years. I have unboxed everything. I mean, just like Retro Jango and Pirates and whatever you want, Star Wars, whatever. I've unboxed everything, right? But now, now, 2024, for the first time, I'm getting messages. Retro Jango, why are you not unboxing ABBA? What's going on? Yeah, what's up, man? Where's ABBA? Come on. Your sales have to be through the roof. I mean, ABBA, but they're like, I'm so sorry, but if people hit us up and say, I want to buy this game. We will order it. We will sell it. No problem. But the interest in new in-box pinball is so low right now. It's the first game for 10 years we are not going to put up on our showroom. Wow. We're going to sell just like a lot of other distros with pictures on the internet or a YouTube video or something like that. Usually, my brother, I mean, he's this kind of guy. He's like, if you want to buy a pinball machine, it's a huge investment for people. If you want to buy it, come and feel it, play it, listen to the audio, how it shoots. If you're fine with it, then you get this new in-box game. He's like that. He's the most honest guy I know. I mean, but yeah, this is the first time. We're not going to get that. So we didn't order that. second of all John Wick congratulations we haven't ordered it so it's the first game for 10 years from Stern I'm not gonna unbox it because here we talked about it and we actually think that it will not do that good on location and the sales are so bad so it's the first Stern we didn't order man last one it was DOS but how is it in the US I think the timing is going to work out on my plan because this was the fourth game that I was going to buy and sell and buy and sell and buy and sell. So this one if I just have to keep it and enjoy it and wait for the code to mature and not have to look at the secondary market I probably going to sleep better at night Because yeah I think the demand and the prices are going to keep doing this trend that we on And I honestly not sure how this is going to shake out for a lot of people You know, I had a friend that bought a gently used Venom LE for under $9,000 here in the States. LE? Yeah, LE, yeah. And it looks great. The game is actually pretty fun. But, yeah, imagine paying $13,000 for that and not even a year later $9,000 under. Just please get this out of here. Like, what the heck, man? But the cool part is this time when you bought the John Wick, you actually tried the game. You played the game. You listened to the music. So it's not, you know, usually Don is the guy that at release, oh, man, mad pinball. You order from mad pinball. You're like, oh, man, hit me up with this.
    31:25
    But this time you know what you're getting, and the code is going to get better. I mean, Tim Sexton, look at how excited that guy is. I mean, when he talks about his code. I talked to him. He walked me through. He had the glass off an LE, and he had a ball in his hand, and he's walking me through all the code that they're working on because they had an LE set up. It was one of 1,000. They had it set up, and they had some preliminary code on there that they're working on, and he's showing me, like, how he's going to synchronize the gunshots on the screen to the speaker lights, so it's like muzzle flashing back at you as you're playing, and I'm like, my God, guy, this is awesome.
    31:59
    Yeah, and look at the last five or six games Stern has come out with. None of them have been duds. Even if they weren't well-received initially, they got there. They all shoot well. We know the problems that they have. We know most of the remedies for them. And Insider Connected is just getting better and better as time goes on. So I still don't think picking up a Stern is not a safe bet. It's just whether or not you need to get it new in box or not.
    32:26
    Yeah. I mean, right now, yeah, we also see a game like Foo Fighters for $9,000. The LE, I just don't. Foo Fighters versus Venom. I mean, I think Foo Fighters is one of their best games. That's how I feel. I know it's not a popular thing to say, but I feel like Foo Fighters is one of their best games. I just can't fathom that it costs $9,000. I don't get it. So Foo Fighters isn't cheap now because it's not a good game. It's cheap now because so many people bought that game that there's just a lot of them out there. Whereas with Venom, it's not the highest playing game and not that many were sold. So I think that's why that price is. So the prices are similar but for different reasons.
    33:12
    Yeah, because you're like the one, you say a lot of them out there. But Venom, it's a very limited game that they didn't sell that many. I mean, I don't know, man. I don't know. Do you believe the rumors with a huge warehouse filled with Stern games just sitting there? Do you believe that rumor? That would make sense to me. I mean, the car industry does that. You know, they do their huge production run, and then unsold vehicles, brand new, go and sit at old airports and just bake out in the sun and rot just to keep the price up on the inventory that's out there.
    33:48
    Oh, man. Because it's going to be way more expensive for Stern to run 600 LEs now and then 408 months than if they just do all 1,000 right now, and if 600 sell, the other 400 sit in a warehouse in Arizona for $400 a month for that space, fine.
    34:06
    Just locked away. They usually build them all at once. Yeah. Unless they have parts shortages. Yeah, but the cheapest thing for them would be to just let's do all 1,000 right now, order 1,000 parts, build 1,000 machines. sell 650 and the other 350 can go sit in a desert warehouse for 20 years, and there you go. There you go. I don't know if that's real. I don't know if that's real, but I know a warehouse in the desert, it doesn't need climate control because there's no humidity, and it's a lot cheaper there than storing them in Chicago.
    34:38
    Or they're just standing at different discos places. We don't know. Yeah, or maybe it goes to sub-Saharan Africa, just like all the old T-shirts from championship teams that don't win the Super Bowl. so donnie yeah what's going on with american pinball man who could do the heck knows man i don't know i get such a hard read on that company i've been to their factory twice met their new sales director met david fix charming gentleman he walks me through the factory invites me over like he's a super cool guy and they've got everything you could want in a factory and when i go there i see games in boxes with shipping labels that are about to go out to you know international and everywhere. So, you know, people are buying their games, but, like, I have no idea about the numbers, right? You know, it's hard to find numbers for anybody. But I know last year David Fix was very excited that they were going to hit 300 games built that year, and that number shocked me for a pinball manufacturer. I thought 300 would be maybe the first quarter, not like all year.
    35:39
    And when I saw Berrio's Barbecue Challenge, I think the real challenge is sales. I think it's Berrio's sales challenge is what they're going to have because the theme doesn't grab you. So you have to come with very compelling assets and gameplay to make up for that. And, like, that's where the game scores the worst, I think. The animations on the screen, the modes don't make sense. The art is questionable. Jeff Teola said the call-outs. I dig that. And the gameplay is not terrible, but it's not Godzilla, you know. There's no big mechanism going up or down. I get there, they were trying to build a cheaper game and maybe more simpler classic play. But Pulp Fiction does that. Bond 60th does that. The gameplay in Barbecue does not measure up to those. So it's like, who's this game for? Who's buying it? Why was it made? Because it takes like a year and a half to put a game together. So it's not like this was just something they threw together in a weekend. But it's like, who's it for? I don't know. You hit the nail there when you said, why was it made? And when you're saying 300, a couple of years ago, before this price increase, I talked to some different manufacturers, and I got some insider knowledge where I got told when they released a pinball machine that had a theme, not something like barbecue or black night, but when they went out and paid for a theme, to be even out and make some money, they needed to produce and sell thousands. thousand pins if you don't which we sell on the it just does not make sense this was the old prices some years sure years back or something so with these prices today maybe it's i don't know 600 or something um so 300 per year so they should run this game at least two years to get even i mean come on how do they make money i've heard that they are firing some employees i i had heard that recently they had hired two technical support people and were like, okay, good, because a lot of people were waiting for boards and waiting for parts for their American Pinball games. And then I'm just hearing now that one of the guys they just hired, they just let go for some reason. Nothing official that I've seen on that, but if true, what's going on? We were happy that you guys were getting some technical support people, so if I have a problem with the game, I can reach out. Owning a game is terrible if something breaks and you can't fix it You gotta troubleshoot it and call your friends So having technical support is paramount As far as instilling confidence in the end user of your machine And so with these kind of shakeups I would hope there would be some kind of official word from American Just reassuring everybody that everything is cool So nothing official has been out? Nothing official, I should reach out to some of my contacts there And see if they can shed some light because it's a little, what's going on? What's going on? Yeah. I've heard they will come up with next game in October. That's the rumor now. All hands on deck. Get it ready for October. And it's supposed to be a licensed team.
    38:46
    Yeah, Oktoberfest 2.0. I don't know. Yeah, so that's American football. Yeah, screw Whitewater 2. Let's get Oktoberfest 2. That's what we need.
    38:57
    Let's go ahead and talk a bit about Jersey Jack. Ooh, yeah, man. Yeah. They finally hit a high note here, man.
    39:06
    Yeah. They released a game that shoots incredible. When I unbox a game, I unbox the Platinum version.
    39:16
    First ball I play, I mean, first ball, first game, I know if it's a stinker or not. And this Elton John game, it shoots absolutely amazing. It's just, it has got Steve Ritchie all over it. And I love Steve Ritchie. I'm a huge old Bell Williams fan, so I love Steve Ritchie. Absolutely.
    39:39
    The theme, the music, it's not me. But it has got everything else. I mean, can you imagine this game having some other, I don't know, Knight Rider with Knight Rider music in the background or Errol's music in the background. And, you know, airwolf, man. And, I mean, Jersey Jack's lights, lights show all that rainbow light and light on the sides, that expression light that came with Guns N' Roses.
    40:13
    They are just missing the theme. So this layout, but exchange the piano for a helicopter, theme it to Predator, and you got a game, man. Yeah. I mean, just get – I mean, this is Steve Ritchie. It's a fast-shooting game, and it's just – it's so good. Steve Ritchie, he is the king. I mean, I love that guy. And with the new board with bigger calves and proper foot strength, this game is so enjoyable. So Jersey Jack, they're building these games. Some are shouting they're not selling. Some are saying it goes – it's a slow burner. It's okay. But I think the more people comes out and tries this game, also J.J.P. naysayers, also Stern Army, I would say go ahead and try this game because I just fell in love. And I know some of the songs, when you go to restaurants, you just remember some of these Elton John songs, right? They're okay, but we just – I mean, for me, I want something from the 90s, maybe 85 and newer. nothing from the 70s, nothing from the 60s nothing like Gone with the Wind or all those old things that Jersey Jack made Casablanca coming next yeah, they're talking about what's it called? Harry Potter yeah, they're talking about Harry Potter, if that's true it is true man, if I could rip an orbit around Hogwarts, come on man yeah, they need to put some more spinners in. I love Godzilla. It has got so many spinners. I mean, you also just bought the Tales from the Crypt. So many spinners everywhere. We love spinners. Come on, man. Spinners. I put a spinner in Venom. It needed one.
    42:05
    Did it make some sounds? No, no. It wasn't hooked up to anything, but it was fantastic. Man, so this Harry Potter. It will shoot with proper flipper springs now. Perfect. It will have the most amazing light show. It will have great speakers. It will have great audio. It will have amazing video assets. I'm sure about that. AAA license. Yeah, this is a perfect storm here, man. I think this is now we have been talking about pinball is just too expensive. I think this theme will sell for $12,000. Don't you think? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Even to people that aren't necessarily into pinball but into Harry Potter and want to have the things that yeah yeah for sure and I'm glad it's coming out now when the flipper strength thing has been sorted and not back when uh Hobbit came out because if Harry Potter played like Hobbit it would be like okay wide body slow plodding around you know yeah there's a dragon back there try to hit Hagrid come on but yeah no but but with that aesthetic with these flippers and what they're doing with Elton John bring it I'm telling you, just a bit more insider knowledge here. Let's do it. So we have the different locations. And most of those locations are in big malls, shopping malls. And these big shopping malls, they have got cinemas, you know? Yeah. Cinema. Is it called cinema in the U.S.? Cinema, yeah. We call them kinos over here. Movies, movies, yeah. Movies, theater thingies, yeah. So you buy your tickets, you buy your popcorn, you wait. These cinemas, they contact us. They say, do you have pinball machines with, you know, modern movie license? And, you know, my brother put out Ghostbusters just at the entrance where people were waiting. Everybody knows that wants to go and see movies. We have Ghostbusters up there. We had Batman 66 up there. Oh, my God. Can you imagine Harry Potter? We will contact every cinema in Denmark and just put Harry Potter everywhere. Anybody in the U.S. should do that. This is a small thing I'm telling you guys so you can do it out there also. But, oh, my God, it's a moneymaker. Yeah, there was this idea that American Pinball had that there's so many thousand barbecue restaurants in the U.S. and they wanted to sell a barbecue to each one of them. But I think selling them to movie theaters, the movie theater's income is based on people coming in the door and buying snacks, not necessarily buying the tickets. The tickets for the movies go to the studios. The movie theater makes money based on what you spend on everything else. So put big arcades back in there. And cinematic experiences, interactive experiences with pinball is what people want. I want to walk out of the film, the blockbuster of the year, of the summer, and go play the pinball machine on the way out while I buy my commemorative popcorn bucket. Like that's what I want to do. Yeah, when people are waiting, they were online. And we don't – most of these cinemas, they don't even say they have to buy them. We say, you know, let's put it up, and we will share the income where we get the most of it. You know, they get some peanuts, some percentage. I can't share everything here. So the machine is just there as a loaner, and, you know, every third day we just open it up and, you know, share the income. They love this, and they're asking about can we get some more pins because the lines are crazy. Some people enters the movie too late because they are playing the game. They're in the zone. They forget about everything. I mean, Donnie, there's so much money to be made out there. I mean, if you have the time, I mean, yeah. So now that COVID is over and people can congregate again maybe we can see an uptick in those kind of experiences like theaters And then put these machines in there and get these awesome cinematic experiences interactive in pinball form out there. Let's see a resurgence and push it that way. Listen to me like I'm marketing the damn things myself. I don't know what I'm doing, but come on. That's what I would want to do. I mean, you have to have the location. Don, it's the next step for you. You need to have a location. And I'm telling you, the only games you need to buy is movie-themed games. That's it. If people can relate, that's it. Don't put up your Black Knight out there. That won't make money. I mean, we have Star Wars Pro. Who wants to play Star Wars Pro without the location? It makes so much money, the Star Wars Pro. It's craziness. We'll never sell those Pros. Yeah, yeah. It's Star Wars. If you're a pinball company, you've got to pay money for licensing. You've got to negotiate it. But you get assets. You get art. You get call-outs. You get video screen stuff. You get an easily recognizable marquee to put up there. People are going to march across the lobby and put money in your game. You don't have to. If you're doing barbecue, you've got to bring the heat, man. You've got to create that whole world to make it compelling. And that, I think, is harder to do than just forking over the money for a license. Charge $1,000 more for the game and put out some quality that people want. I mean, we all see what happens if you have a great theme or you have this barbecue. I don't want to stamp on this barbecue, but I don't know. Great theme. They sell and on location. In my head, I'm thinking they should have made – this should have been Cuphead, right? Could have had all those Cuphead graphics. The layout is okay. But if you have the Cuphead art, the graphics, the callouts, the sounds, and then you take that same layout and you do a run of 50 burial barbecues to honor the man, for the fan community, I think that would have made a lot more sense. If you come out with three bangers in a row, then you can go make your art piece for yourself, and that's okay.
    47:59
    But coming up with Oktoberfest and Galactic Tank Force and then this American Pinball, I'm going to go back to them for a second. They made Hot Wheels, probably their best, most successful game. Stick with toy licenses. Come out with Lego game next. I want to play a Lego game. I want to play a Minecraft game. I want to play Halo. Come on. That will be your niche, man. Come on. Run with it. Lego is from Denmark. If they make a Lego game, all Danes will buy that. Yeah.
    48:25
    Absolutely, man. Talking about these remakes. Yeah. Do you think they will ever come out with the Lord of the Rings? No.
    48:34
    No. So the reason is, well, when they made Lord of the Rings, there was a lot of action figures on the play field, because action figures are already made. They don't require tooling. That's why Toy Story is loaded with the cake toppers because those were sculpts that were already tooled. You didn't have to spend $50,000 for every figure to be created. But now, from now to when Lord of the Rings was made, those actors have increased their profile so substantially that to get them to sign off on their rights now is probably prohibitively expensive. It probably costs way too much to get them to sign back on for their likeness to be used. I think if you buy the LE version that came a couple of years later, I think, they didn't have the figurines on Lord of the Rings. I think it was Baron or something. There was something irritating about the LE. I don't remember it by now. But yeah, it could be really cool. The theme is great, but I think the well is deep enough you could make another Lord of the Rings game. Different layout, different assets, maybe base it on the book or something, I don't know if that would be, people want the movie people want Legolas man, they want his face and in 26 there will come out two new Lord of the Rings movies so something with that would probably be easier, just negotiate a brand new licensing agreement based off of who already owns those assets and controls them right now and tie it into the marketing of that movie as leverage to get that out and have that game in theaters when the movie comes out The synergy. Let's do it. On top of that, I know you have the Star Wars in the background. I would love them to make brand new Star Wars pinball machines. Why not? A new hope. Empire. Start with that. Empire Strikes Back. Just make that.
    50:23
    Yeah, but every second year, just everybody would buy all three of them because you know how us pinball nerds we are. If people buy Elvira, I have friends that buy Elvira. Then they go out and they want to get the scared stiff and they want to get the Elvira party monsters because it's a set. We want everything. If they did that with Star Wars, Episode 4, 5, and 6, everybody want them on their line-up. Come on. It's just money hanging there. Imagine Jersey Jack taking their box of sparkling lights and their awesome flippers and doing just Raiders of the Lost Ark.
    51:01
    Storm the temple. Get the idol. I know. I know Jersey Jack would make it with a huge screen and all the assets on there, and it would sparkle like you could see it from space. Who should design it? Oh, man.
    51:14
    Like, should we pick, like, a John Borg to do it? Should we pick a Steve Ritchie? No, no, at Jersey. At Jersey. Steve Ritchie. Well, we're supposed to see Seiden's new game, right? He's supposed to be up next at Jersey Jack, so we'll see what he can do. But, yeah, give me Mr. Shao Kahn designing a hard-hitting freaking – maybe not brutal, but experiential, fast, good shooting, solid game with cool mechanisms. I love these little games. Lord of the Rings. But just to be clear, I can hear you also love Steve Ritchie. Just to be clear, Eric Mignier, I really like his designs because he really incorporates, I mean, theme integration with Eric Mignier, I really enjoy it. He goes into these nerdy details. I just love it about that guy. How did I forget Eric? I forgot Eric because I haven't seen a game from him in a while. And I haven't, you know, Godfather didn't speak to me based on, you know, theme and experience. But, yeah, you're right. You're right. He does some interesting creative things. Yeah. Look at Pirates. There's so much small stuff he has got in there. It's amazing. All right. Yeah. I think I'd hand it to him now that you mentioned it.
    52:26
    Because if we can get Pirates of the Caribbean level of quality, but with Raiders of the Lost Ark, man, come on. Oh, come on. Make it today. Yeah, man. So, unfortunately, there are rumors that say that they will make Muppets. As I remember, Muppets, isn't it that doll show with the big feet? Isn't it something with a pig and a frog or something? I don't remember. Isn't it that doll show? Yeah, isn't it? I'm not sure. I mean, it was just, if it's what I'm thinking, then it just sucks. Cultural phenomenon is what you're thinking of. Now, maybe not have been that big reach in Denmark, but this was all stuff dreamed up by a hippie in the 60s with his sock puppets and grew from there. So, like, culturally, it means a lot to us over here, man. But when you say the 60s, I'm off. As I said, 1985 and newer. We need to have Commando from 1985 and Predator from 87, and then 90s and onward. Also, music-wise, everything. Something from the 90s. Nirvana, that could be cool. I want, yeah, 85, 90s. Michael Jackson could be. I love his music. It will sell like crazy. Some pop stuff. Why is it rock only? Rock, rock, rock. Why, man? I think what would be helpful is if, because I'm sure the pinball companies have thought of this, too. I have to believe that. But if they can't get Michael Jackson for whatever reason or Prince or whatever it was, they should come out and say, look, we tried. here's why this can't be made by anybody. And then we're like, okay, good. Now we know. Because we're saying the same things. And there's got to be a reason. Michael Jackson's license is probably way too expensive to try to gather for a pinball machine. You'd have to sell 10,000 pinball machines to try to break even. Every location owner would buy it. Everyone from day one. Can you imagine how much money it would make on a location? Oh, for sure. We beat it. I mean, it would make so much money. It would be craziness. But, yeah, I think the license will be... Yeah. So let's just jump over to the next company. Just Thriller as a game theme would be amazing. Just Thriller alone. Yeah. Yeah, that's enough, man. But, Donnie, let's talk about Haggis. Why? You have to help me. My English is really bad. I don't understand what I'm saying. So, they came out some time ago and they said they should recapitalize. So what does that mean? When I look at the dictionary, it says we're broke. We need some money. Is that what it means? That's the bank saying, okay, so what's your plan before we foreclose and take this whole operation down and part it out? That's what I'm thinking.
    55:16
    Man. I think what they were trying to say is that purchasing parts just when we're ready to build is not a good way to go about it. We need to purchase in bulk so we can get the prices down. But in order to do that, we need an investor so we can build up our stocks and then do manufacturing.
    55:35
    But it sounds like a place no company wants to be in and most companies can't recover from. And then pinball is a super hard business to begin with. So, yeah, come on. Donnie, there are like 15 companies. The thing I just don't get is, yeah, 14 or 15 if you count them. The thing I don't get is the formula is right there. Right there. Stern. If you're a new company, copy 100%. Stern is doing all their pro games, pro prize, everything pro. You don't need to put in a 27-inch monitor. Just start with the Sterns. What is it, 15 inches or something like that? Make it cheap. Make it for 7K. Get a great theme and start up your company. What is all of this? We have so many companies that does all this crazy stuff, and one of them goes down after the other. I don't want these companies to shut down. I want more companies. I want more products. But the formula is just right there. Copy Stern. Stern does it the way they do for a reason. You may say they lack some originality. They don't take risks enough. but they do what they do for a reason because it works. And they may be a little bit slower to pitch and turn because they are such a huge company, but they do things for a reason. So start with that. Walk before you run. Come out with a game that you can build. You don't have to do large numbers. It can even be an original theme. Just make it quality and get it to customers. Show that you can actually build and get things out there. Then start taking more and more risks as you build. That's what Spooky did. You know? Guy was going around to shows. I got America's Most Haunted. No one's ever seen it like this before. We made it ourselves. I'm going to build 150 of them. I got some donated space. We're going to put these things together. What do you say? Okay, I'll take a risk on it. And then you know what he did? He built the games and he got them to people. And then used the proceeds from that to get a license to do another game. And then another one after that. It just kept getting bigger and bigger. You know? Respect, man. I have so much respect. I mean, Spooky has done it the right way. and you mentioned innovation in pinball. I have written it down here. On episode two of Warp, we're going to talk about pinball innovation because I have so much I want to share with you guys. So yeah, it is what it is, guys. All right, Donnie. Yeah.
    58:04
    This was awesome. We are pinball. You are pinball. Warp, episode one. It was an amazing show. I hope everybody enjoyed it and I hope everybody will come back and check out episode two soon. Man, and you guys are getting in on the ground floor of WAP. What a great place to be. Graphics are already on their way, sir. For Genghis, how do people get back to you? We don't have an email address or anything yet. We have nothing, but we will share this. And if they want to come and contact us, they can write to you, okay? Yeah. Don't pinball podcast, and everything will come up. This was just something we had in our hearts. We wanted to start this. As we said earlier, we really need more podcast shows, right? So when we make our videos, people are saying more, more, more. You have so good chemistry in between you guys. So I wanted to do this. And you are like, every time we talk, you are like, heck yeah, more pinball, Cengiz. More pinball. You love pinball. We are pinball. I have many years of experience, but you have this new spark, new glow energy that's just, I love it. sometimes I'm like I'm fed up pinball I don't want to play my pinball machines today and then you hit me up and you're like oh Juggies did you hear this and this is going on I made this mod this and I'm like oh yeah I'm in pinball mode again people that are listening to you I love it I love it it's what we need Matt happiness if you're not happy if you don't enjoy if you're not having fun with pinball then what are you doing right go to something else get the hell out of here Do something else. Collect Pokemon cards.
    59:46
    All right. So the email we'll use for now, it's DonSpinballPodcast at gmail.com. I'll go ahead and shepherd things back and forth. We'll get a Facebook page going. Let's blow this up and make it amazing. Thanks for everybody for listening. Wait, wait. Go ahead. Before you say thanks, you had some guys on your show or your or somebody's show, and when you were talking, one of those guys, while you were talking, he said, what was that show while we were talking he said I love that what it was two guys I don't know their names I'm so sorry but while you were talking one of them was like I want to buy a door so I was like I love that guy you need to figure that out man I love his voice alright if you know what Genghis is talking about email me and fill me in we'll go figure it out Yeah yeah I'll find out in episode 2 It's so cool man Alright Wimp let's get our Outro music buddy There's some whores in this house Get your efficiency There's some whores in this house There's some holes in this house