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Pinball Industry News: May 2019 Re-cap

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·58m 9s·analyzed·Jun 3, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

May 2019 sees variant announcements, manufacturer expansion, and Deep Root delays amid industry growth.

Summary

May 2019 pinball industry recap covering new game model announcements (Munsters color Premium, Batman 66 Catwoman edition), Deep Root Pinball's delayed RAZA release roadmap, Suncoast Pinball's production readiness with Cosmic Carnival, American Pinball's facility expansion and hiring, Homepin's new Thunderbirds production run and Ride the Wave prototype, and Chicago Gaming's apparent acquisition of Cactus Canyon remake rights.

Key Claims

  • Stern announced a new color Premium model for Munsters alongside the existing black and white Premium

    high confidence · Jonathan Hewson and Martin Eyob discussing official Stern announcements

  • Stern released Batman 66 Catwoman Signature Edition with actress Judy Neumann signed trading cards

    high confidence · Official announcement, though clarified later that Batman 66 is actually the base Pro model despite Premium labeling

  • Deep Root Pinball's RAZA will be playable at Houston Arcade Expo in November 2019, with full launch window of autumn 2019 to summer 2020

    high confidence · Deep Root's official announcement timeline

  • Suncoast Pinball has ten cabinets finished or close to finished with first production playfield already in production

    high confidence · Company social media updates and direct statements from Suncoast

  • American Pinball is relocating from Streamwood to Palatine, Illinois and hiring for stockroom, shipping, production, and game testing roles

    high confidence · Job listing and prior facility relocation coverage

  • Christopher Franchi created cabinet artwork for Superman '78 and Beetlejuice games that were not produced by Stern

    high confidence · George Gomez's public statements about design team enthusiasm requirements

  • Homepin is producing a new game called Ride the Wave based on Ice Cold Beer mechanics

    high confidence · Direct quote from Martin Eyob's interview with Mike Kalinowski, Homepin owner

  • Chicago Gaming Company representative contacted parts suppliers seeking the original Cactus Canyon programmer, suggesting remake plans

    medium confidence · Indirect confirmation through parts shop conversation; no official announcement

Notable Quotes

  • “If the design team can't put themselves behind a theme, then it's not going to result in a great game.”

    George Gomez (cited by Jonathan Hewson) @ mid-content — Explains rejection of Superman '78 and Beetlejuice games; core design philosophy at Stern

  • “Not many pinball companies who are able to do that. Get straight to production without extensive playtesting.”

    Jonathan Hewson @ Suncoast Pinball section — Highlights rarity of Suncoast's confident production approach among startups

  • “It's one of the many things he sells out. [referring to Barry Osler's finishing work on others' designs]”

    Martin Eyob @ Deep Root section — Suggests Barry Osler may be involved in completing John Papaduke's RAZA design

  • “Getting all the manufacturers, all your ducks in a row, and actually getting everybody ready to start producing the games in any kind of quantity is a very different proposition to building the one sample game.”

    Jonathan Hewson @ Suncoast discussion — Core challenge for startup manufacturers; assembly and supply chain complexity

  • “I'm not sure whether they're staying in Streamwood, but if they're relocating to a different part of Illinois or something, then I could imagine that not everybody who's currently working for them is following them.”

    Martin Eyob @ American Pinball section — Contextualizes hiring needs as facility relocation impact, not just growth

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyThe MunstersgameBatman 66gameDeep Root PinballcompanyRetro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA)gameSuncoast PinballcompanyCosmic Carnivalgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball's facility expansion from Streamwood to Palatine with three production lines signals capacity planning for contract manufacturing beyond core pinball games

    high · Job postings for stockroom, shipping, production, and testing roles; new facility enables redemption game and contract manufacturing capability

  • ?

    community_signal: Homepin actively sharing Ride the Wave gameplay footage and development updates on social media, demonstrating transparent communication with fan base during production phase

    medium · Hosts note Facebook updates with gameplay photos, music, sculpture painting, and cabinet artwork documentation

  • ?

    product_concern: Deep Root Pinball's vague delivery commitments ('autumn 2019 to summer 2020' window, 'unspecified number of units') and critical commentary about existing manufacturers creates skepticism about realistic delivery capability

    high · Hosts note one-year delivery window and implicit acknowledgment of prior delays (March 2019 postponement); characterize Deep Root's criticism of competitors as premature given lack of completed product

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Superman '78 and Beetlejuice game designs rejected by Stern despite Christopher Franchi completing cabinet artwork, attributed to design team's inability to enthuse about themes per George Gomez principle

    high · George Gomez stated: 'If the design team can't put themselves behind a theme, then it's not going to result in a great game'

  • $

    market_signal: Startup manufacturers (Suncoast, Homepin) demonstrating confidence in direct production without extensive public playtest iterations, contrasting with industry norm of prototype touring before manufacturing commitment

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.174

0:00
New monsters and Batman 66 models announced. Deep Root announces game release timetable. Suncoast Pinball prepares for production.
0:16
Hi, my name is Jonathan Hewson. I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine. And with me is... I'm Martin Eyob, an editor of Pinball News. Right, and welcome to our monthly recap of the previous months where we're looking at the pimble industry news, in this case of May 2019.
0:38
Indeed, and it was a reasonably quiet month, I have to say, as far as interesting or exciting news goes, but there's still plenty happening. Right. So now I have somewhere to be, and I think you have somewhere to be as well, So let's get right into the news of last month. Yeah, let's cut to the chase. Exactly.
1:02
So Stern announced a new model for the Munsters and for Batman 66. Yes. When they brought out the Munsters originally, the three models, the Pro, the Premium and the LE. And the Premium model was the black and white playfield one. And now, ta-da, they've also announced a premium in color.
1:29
Yes, which is a swings and roundabout affair, because on the plus side, it means that if you wanted to get a color play field, along with all the features that are on the play field, you now have that option. But it does mean that for those people who bought the LE just so they could get exactly that, They didn't like the black and white version, and they wanted the color, so they paid out the extra and got the limited edition model. It now turns out that maybe they didn't need to do that, and they could have waited a little while and got a color premium after all. Right. So doesn't that make the black and white premium the actual limited edition?
American Pinball
company
Christopher Franchiperson
Homepincompany
Thunderbirdsgame
Ride the Wavegame
Chicago Gaming Companycompany
Cactus Canyongame
John Papadukeperson
Barry Oslerperson
Ryan Cravensperson
Gary Sternperson
Mike Kalinowskiperson
Houston Arcade Expoevent
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
Jonathan Hewsonperson
Martin Eyobperson
Dirty Donnieperson

medium · Jonathan notes Suncoast's direct jump to production is rare; Homepin showing prototype at trade show with immediate manufacturing follow-up

  • ?

    leak_detection: Chicago Gaming Company seeking original Cactus Canyon programmer via parts supplier contact; indirect confirmation suggests Cactus Canyon remake in active development despite no official announcement

    medium · Martin reports parts shop owner was contacted by Chicago Gaming representative requesting programmer contact; representative left phone number suggesting follow-up engagement

  • $

    market_signal: Ice Cold Beer skill game revival through Homepin's Ride the Wave prototype suggests resurgent interest in non-traditional pinball mechanics and alternative gameplay experiences

    medium · Martin reports positive feedback at Chinese trade show; hosts discuss Ice Cold Beer's popularity and re-theming potential for breweries and locations

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern sales leadership restructuring with appointment of Ryan Cravens (North American Commercial Sales) and prior Doug Score (worldwide sales), suggesting Gary Stern transition away from hands-on distributor sales management

    medium · Martin speculates this represents strategic handoff as Gary Stern moves toward 'more relaxed and leisurely lifestyle'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Christopher Franchi reportedly on hiatus awaiting new project assignment at Stern after completing Superman '78 and Beetlejuice artwork; creates uncertainty about next design direction

    medium · Franchi told Hewson directly he is 'waiting to hear from Stern what his next project will be'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Deep Root Pinball's RAZA delayed from March 2019 to November 2019+ with extended autumn 2019-summer 2020 launch window representing 6-15 month slip

    high · Official announcement of playable prototype at Houston Arcade Expo (November 15-16) and vague 'fall 2019 to summer 2020' production window

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern releasing color Premium variant for Munsters after LE success, potentially cannibalizing prior LE sales but capturing additional market segment unable to accept black-and-white design

    high · Jonathan and Martin discuss how LE buyers who wanted color now regret premium, suggesting strategy to capture unsatisfied demand

  • ?

    technology_signal: Suncoast Pinball leveraging 3D printing for prototype sculptures and modern manufacturing techniques, with playfield design refinements based on real-world playtesting feedback

    high · Hosts note initial 3D-printed unpainted sculptures upgraded to painted versions, and ramp design changed to reduce playfield artwork obstruction

    • 2:08
    Oh, it depends how many they made, of course. Yeah. Well, that's probably stuff that Stern is never going to disclose. but if you own a black and white premium monsters then just think of it that that's the actual limited edition although the colored version might see less units made so that might be the collectible well i think the the black and white one was um it was some people liked it and some people didn't um and i think those who liked it really liked it and those who didn't like it really didn't like it so uh they either went for the premium oh went for the limited edition or went for the pro model uh because there's you know there's not a huge amount of difference between the two is there in features on the playfield uh no playfields are basically yeah the features are the same it's i think you're talking about maybe um um infinity glass or whatever it's called and a um a real back glass uh instead of a uh trans light and that usually that kind of stuff maybe a shaky order i don't know i don't have the specs in front of me but that's usually there i didn't see any extra reason why anyone would go for the limited edition on that one if you could go for a premium other than if you really don't like the black and white but okay even that option is now it's a color so i would say on monsters um premium all the way if you want it yeah well perhaps they sold all the limited edition ones and people still wanted a color fully featured play field and couldn't get one so this was the only way of doing it if they did that if that's the case then good for stern yeah absolutely yeah It's a good sign. So that was the Munsters, the new color premium model. But there's also a new model of Batman 66. Right, which is focused around Catwoman. Yeah, the Catwoman Signature Edition, as I believe it's called. Yeah.
    4:13
    I forgot the name of the actress that played Catwoman, but apparently she's still alive. So she was able to sign a couple of trading cards, I think. they are called or whatever. Yeah, Judy Neumar, I think, was the name. Yeah.
    4:29
    Yeah, so each game comes with a signed Catwoman trading card. Yeah, Adam West was no longer available here.
    4:38
    Yeah, I don't know what happened there. Maybe something happened there we weren't aware of. But thank God we have Judy Neumann or whatever her name is. Neumar, yeah.
    4:51
    Oh, well, so So there's a couple of changes in the artwork, obviously centered around Catwoman. And for the rest, it's still the same game.
    5:04
    It's still... It's a premium model, I believe. Yeah, which is actually the pro model, the cheapest model. Yeah, it's the base model. Yeah, the base model of that game. So you're still buying a very expensive game. Code-wise I understood that a lot of people Like how the code Improved over time Yes, good point So if Batman 66 is a game that you're in the market for Now you have an extra option Yeah, I'm not sure what the pricing is Whether that's the same as the original Premium model Or whether It's higher or lower Than that I didn't actually get any official Announcement from Stern on this it just kind of appeared. There's no press release, I don't think, sent out about it. Actually, I think there was. I think I got one. Did you? Oh, I didn't. Okay.
    5:55
    Perhaps I've done something bad and got blacklisted by Stern now. Again? Without me knowing it. Yeah. That's right, yeah.
    6:03
    So anyway, there's a flyer for the game. And, yeah, it obviously features Catwoman as the main back glass character. And on the back box sides as well. although the cabinet is more traditional Batman and Robin.
    6:20
    So that's the new game models that have been announced by Stern Pimble in the past month. So now let me play a little devil's advocate over here. You could also wonder, so why would Stern announce these additional models? Is that because they are stuck with parts that they need to get rid of? So do a new model and get rid of the parts? Or is the game so popular that, oh, we're playing on that, and as a result, here's a new model to cater to that market?
    6:56
    Yeah, well, I guess it's a fairly, fairly, I don't want to underestimate the amount of work that goes into doing this, it's a fairly simple process to create these new models, as opposed to creating a new game. And if it stimulates sales a bit, you know, and they recover the costs and they're not producing or not announcing any new models at the moment over the summer period and waiting until a little bit later, I think in the year, before they do that, then, no, it keeps their distributors happy with new games they can promote and keeps them in the public eye. Right. Keeps us talking about them as well. Right, okay. I do have one other, aside from the usual code updates, I think, for Black Knight and what else? Deadpool has a new code update.
    7:46
    But Stern also sent, at least to me, a press release that they appointed Ryan Cravens as director of North American Commercial Sales. Oh, yes, I did get that as well, yeah. So your blacklisting is, like, very recent.
    8:04
    Yes, I guess so. Or maybe they're more selective in what they send me. Yeah. So actually, I'm in my mailbox right now. I can't find any press release for the two games we just discussed. I do see a code update for months as well. So that ties nicely in with the extra color model. They're now at 1.0. So, okay, good for them. And, well, that's basically all the stern news that I have. I would say it's probably worth just going back to what you said about Ryan Cravens being appointed as director of North American Commercial Sales. Right. Because that's obviously sales to distributors, not retail sales. Right. And obviously, you know, about Doug Score having been appointed to handle worldwide sales. so I'm wondering whether this is just another slight edging of Gary Stern away from the business into a more relaxed and leisurely lifestyle without such a hands-on operation or having his hand on the operation of sales to distributors which is what he was going to concentrate on once Dog was brought in as well. right but now the north of whole north american i.e. us and canada i don't know if that includes any i don't they do any sales to mexico which also strictly speaking north america um but now they have somebody handle that as well you know where does that leave gary stern probably on his boat yeah or skiing yeah i'm sure he's sure he's not worried about it anyway whatever it means And then slightly related to Stern Pinball, I think we can include that right away. Christopher Frenchy revealed cabinet artwork for two games recently. Beetlejuice, I think we discussed last month. And this month he released the cabinet artwork for a game called Superman 78, based on the very first Superman movie, with Christopher Reeves as Superman, of course.
    10:24
    And the story is that there was apparently an outside party interested in contracting Stern to build these games.
    10:33
    And in the end, they didn't get... Well, nobody was interested in designing those games. That's what it comes down to. And if, as George Gomez says, if the design team can't put themselves behind a theme, then it's not going to result in a great game. So you better not do it. Yeah, I think officially the game, well, the game design was officially called Batman the movie. Sorry, Superman the movie.
    11:02
    But yes, so that's, as you said, that's Chris Franchi's second complete, well, not complete, but art package, should we say. I don't know how complete it was, for a title which isn't going to be produced by Stern.
    11:17
    So you can see that he was rumored to be somewhat frustrated that these titles weren't being picked up. And you can kind of see why if you put all this effort into it. And the games never actually go into production. It actually makes me wonder why, well, it's probably not a fair comparison, but a couple of months ago we reported that Stern Pinball got the Godzilla license that Spooky Pinball was after, and not the very commercial one, but one for a very obscure Godzilla movie from Japan. You wonder, well, obviously everybody has their suspicion of why Stern took that license off the market, so to speak, because nobody can see Stern doing that obscure Godzilla-themed pinball. But then it makes you wonder, if you don't do Superman, I'm not saying Superman is a good theme. I can see why design teams would not be interested in it, especially since the movie from 1978 has special effects that everybody is basically yawning at, like, nobody is believing that anymore. But It still makes me wonder Why would they go for Godzilla And actually develop a game for that That's just What I'm thinking Playing Death of an Advocate one more time But if you know Yeah well I don't think we have an answer for that So we won't speculate anymore There are plenty of other people who are willing to speculate On what's happening in the pinball world Let's stick to the facts Yeah okay So anyway So, well, Christopher French has been busy, obviously. Who knows what else he's working on? Although last time I talked to him, he told me that he's still waiting to hear from Stern what his next project will be. So he's on a bit of a hiatus right now. And, okay, let's hope that they will need him soon enough. Yes, absolutely. He produces some lovely work.
    13:22
    Okay. Okay, so let's – what should we go to next? Should we go down under or go over to China, in fact, and see what – No, no, we're going to Deep Root. Oh, okay. We're not going to go there yet. Okay. Well, we'll come to – Well, that was the second headline, so I figured we'd do three headlines, and then we'd get some other news as well. Oh, okay. I like to mix it up a bit, you know, throw in a few random stories here and there. But, yeah, let's see. Deep Root Pinball have been, well, they haven't actually announced very much. They did put out an announcement saying, giving a rough timetable, and in some cases a very rough timetable, as to when their first game, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, or RAZA, as we can call it from now on, to avoid having to say that too many times, is going to be available to play, and when it's going to be, roughly, when it's going to be produced, but also looking at, well, also bashing everybody else's product at the moment, saying how terrible pinball is right now Yeah well we always love manufacturers who do that Oh yeah yeah endears and to our hearts obviously It a good way to start building a name for yourself
    14:38
    Yeah, well, they haven't got anything to show at the moment to show how good their product is. That usually doesn't help. Yeah, well, yes, a little bit behind on that. But also extolling how wonderful and innovative and groundbreaking their games are going to be when they come out, and unlike anything we've ever seen before. Oh, well, great. Then can't wait to see it then. Yeah. Well, you'll have to wait to see it, unfortunately, because the first game, Razza, they do say that they will have it available, or a number of units available, an unspecified number of units available, to play at this year's Houston Arcade Expo, which takes place, I think, in November. November? November. 15th and 16th, I think. Okay. So the end of this year. So they should have some models there for people to play. Good. The actual big launch that they were going to do in March this year at the Texas Pinball Festival. But they already said in November, I think, of last year, oh, we're not going to make that. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so that was postponed. And that five days of deep root, they're actually still going ahead with that.
    15:58
    But they've given a fairly lax timetable as to exactly when it's going to happen. It could be any time between autumn slash fall of 2019, this year, or summer of 2020. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's basically a window of one year. So it could be any time in fall, autumn, winter, spring, or summer. So there you go. Put it in your diary now.
    16:31
    It's a good thing to see that those designers aren't being stressed into delivering games in a rush.
    16:40
    I think that might actually benefit the games, because the designers had all the time in the world to work on them.
    16:51
    Well, seemingly so, yeah. I mean, I've obviously been working on them for a while, and they could have up to another year or more. Man, you're a designer at Deep Root right now. I mean, you can totally chill, be innovative and all that kind of stuff. Actually, man, I envy Dennis Nordman. Yeah, in fact the only person Who's got any pressure on them at all It seems, is John Papaduke To get Razor out By November this year Well, only a few prototypes So it's not like A real big pressure Well yeah, but they're going to be groundbreaking And innovative and unlike anything We've seen what that game looks like Ah, but that's What it looks like It's obviously only skin deep because there's clearly a lot more in the game that we don't know about that makes it innovative and groundbreaking. Then get on it, John. Although I think John might be working with someone else inside the company to finish that game. Hmm. Okay. So I wouldn't be surprised if Barry Osler is heavily involved in finishing that. But then again, Barry was often involved in finishing the designs of other designers, even when he was working at Williams. Absolutely, yeah. It's one of the many things he sells out. Yeah, so actually that could be a very good thing. Oh, well. So I think obviously there's some disputes going on or people bought a Raza game in the past. I think they have now until June 28th to claim a game with Deep Root, and after that, then I guess they're on their own, or combined, or whatever. But let's keep this thing rather positive. So if you're owed a Raza game, and you haven't contacted Deep Root, then you might want to look into that, and let's leave it at that. Yes, I'm not sure whether that window is still open What they did say is that by June the 28th They will give the claimants a choice Between extending the delivery date of the machine they're owed Until, well, I guess that window of the end of Well, fall of this year and summer of next year so that fairly loose time frame for delivery of their game or taking some kind of financial settlement instead rather than going for a game. So that will be offered to those people by the 28th of June. Okay, well, let's hope it will all work out. Yes, yeah. Okay, so our third headline was about another new manufacturer. Yes, and that was Pinball. who have shown around their Cosmic Carnival game at various shows recently. Actually, since last year, October, I think,
    20:09
    that was when the first Whitewood made an appearance at the earlier mentioned Houston Arcade Expo. And at the Texas Pinball Festival, they showed the playfield and artwork with new... They showed the playfield and cabinet with artwork by Dirty Donnie. And since then, they have actually been very active on Facebook and possibly also other social media, but I pay most attention to Facebook.
    20:41
    Updating images or photos of gameplay, or at least flipping a ball around with some music in the background. and the sculptures on the game above the ramps are now both colored in, painted, so to speak. At the Texas Pinball Show, they were just 3D-printed mock-ups with no paint, I think. And they changed, based on feedback that they got from people playing the game, they changed actually the layout or design of the ramps. ramps um so the ramps are still in the same spot and they still feed the same uh in lanes but uh the ramp design itself changed so that uh it's no longer blocking uh the artwork on the playfield that much and people have can better see where the ball is going so uh that's that's i guess an improvement which is uh interesting to note and um and they're sort of getting ready to to build their first couple of playfields. They showed pictures of a couple of cabinets being decaled and so on. So they're getting ready for their first, I'd say, pre-production? Yes. They say the first ten cabinets are either finished or close to finished. And they showed some pictures of cabinets and bat boxes. And they said that their first production playfield is making its way down the line, which is surprising because we haven't really had a chance to play any sort of sample games yet, but maybe they're going straight to production and start shipping the games. Maybe they're that confident that the game can just be built now. They've done all their testing and they can start making them and shipping them to the buyers, in which case, bravo, congratulations.
    22:40
    Not many pinball companies who are able to do that. In the sense that But usually the assembly line setup and all that kind of stuff, the inventory part, that's the big beast that startups usually have the most difficulty with getting that under control, so to speak. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I want to say it's easy to design and prototype a game or build a one-off sample. I wouldn't say easy, but that's compared to the... Ask Andrew Iway and he will tell you that's the easy part.
    23:20
    Yeah, getting all the manufacturers, all your ducks in a row, and actually getting everybody ready to start producing the games in any kind of quantity is a very different proposition to building the one sample game. Right.
    23:36
    So anyway, that's Suncoast with their Cosmic Carnival game. Yeah, and kudos for them. I hope they have a successful start, and I'm looking forward to seeing more games from them. Yeah, I'm looking forward to playing the revamped or the new layout for the game as well. I'm still waiting for code on it, because all I got to do was play it at the Texas Pinball Festival, where I basically flipped a ball around and nothing's going to happen.
    24:08
    Yes, that's right. That was it. So I'm curious to see how it will actually play with all the code fully implemented and the modes working and all that kind of stuff.
    24:20
    Yeah, I don't know when we'll get to see that exactly, but a little bit later in the year, I'm sure. Yeah. Now, speaking of starting up production, here's a nice bridge to American Pinball. who are looking to bring more people on board for their production. Yes, they are looking for full-time employees for their stockroom, shipping and receiving, the production line, and game testing.
    24:47
    Especially game testing, I found a very interesting... You fancy your chances of that, do you? Well, not so much in the sense, obviously, I'm based in Europe, and if they'd love to send over a game for me to test it, then by all means, please do so.
    25:06
    And trust me, I'll test it thoroughly. But obviously, as editor of Pinball Magazine, and you know this as well, I've talked to quite a few pinball designers who probably quite a few, Jim Petler comes to mind and a few others who started out at Belly, actually in game testing, that's where they got in as kids still in school.
    25:44
    And after school, they went to the factory just to play pinball and record scores and how long they played the game, actually test playing all those games only to become designers at a later stage. So when I saw that they are looking for game testers,
    26:03
    I sort of made that connection, although I understand it's also just a game that is coming down the line and you need to test whether it's completely working. That's also probably the same. So it might be two different adaptions of that name or interpretations of what game testing actually is. But then again, you never know which future designer might be responding to this vacancy.
    26:33
    Yes, it's also interesting that they're looking for these people, because I don't know if that implies that they didn't have them before or didn't have enough of them. and if they didn't have enough of them before, they're obviously planning for higher production numbers and will need more staff. Now, obviously, in the past, we've featured stories about American Pinball and moved to their new factory, which is significantly larger than the one that they're currently in and how that's going to happen, expected to happen over the summer.
    27:07
    And that will provide them with up to three production lines, which the main one would be used obviously as their main pinball game. The second one and third one could be used for production of contract games or other types of games. It could be redemption games or anything else that the company wants to take on and build for other companies. So, yeah, you can see that they get all those three going. They're certainly going to need more line people, more stockroom staff, shipping and receiving, and testing of the product in a way that they haven't needed to do up until now. Right. Okay. Well, so my guess is this might also have to do with the postponed move of facilities for American Pimble. So that might also be in order. I don't know how far they are from where they, I think they were now in stream mood, and I'm not sure whether they're staying in stream mood, but if they're relocating to a different part of Illinois or something, then I could imagine that not everybody who's currently working for them is following them. That's a good point, yeah, because Palatine, where they're moving to, is a little way away, as we know, having been there in the past. Right. So they might be looking for locals over there also, although I do think that the ad clearly mentions Streamwood as a location. Yeah, probably to start with, yes. Okay, so then that means that the move is still yet to happen, let's call it that. Yeah. Right, okay. So, all right. Well, that's American Pimble, obviously. well Cobra Fest is on the line and good thing that they need extra people Yeah Okay Do I get to go back to the story I was about to mention earlier Sure, go ahead. Sorry for the interruption. No, that's all right. I wasn't listening. Oh, sorry, I was.
    29:19
    Sorry. Couldn't resist. Well, yeah, we were talking about Homepin. Right. I don't know if I should call them an Australian company or a Chinese company, I suppose. The Australian-China-based company.
    29:38
    Yes, I know Australian pinball production company, still working on Thunderbirds, which is their first release, and just announced a new run of the game, as I understand. Yes. You know a bit more about this than I do. Yeah, I talked to Mike Kalinowski, the owner of Homepin, I think last week.
    30:06
    And they're basically doing a new run of Thunderbirds. He also had just returned from a Chinese coin-op amusement trade show, where they obviously showed off the game. but they also introduced another game that they are about to be making. It was a prototype of a game called Ride the Wave, and anybody who has seen a picture of that game might think of a title game called Ice Cold Beer, which is an upright game where you have a playfield which is almost in a vertical position, but with a slight angle to it, and you have to move a ball that is being balanced on a metal rail, I would say, or something like that. Correct me if my terminology is wrong. No, no, I think you're right. Yeah. So there's two joysticks, like on a video game, that control the up and down on the left side and on the right side of that rail that you're trying to move. and the idea is that you move the ball in between a maze of holes up to one hole that is blinking, and that's where the ball should land in. So it's a very simple skill-based game, I would say. I remember actually watching Robert Gagno last year at the Vancouver Flipout, where he just basically played an ice-cold beer game.
    31:55
    And I think he rolled that game like five or six times, if not more. And that was pretty good. I've never seen anybody do it like that. And so, well, I know ice-cold beer is a game that quite a few people are looking for that. fun to add to their game room. And so it appears that HomePin now have basically a, I wouldn't call it a knockoff, but it's basically the same principle. And they probably made a few innovations. They added music to it, and, well, it's completely,
    32:41
    it's built with modern technology, So probably if there were any hiccups with the previous model, I'm sure they used new technology to create new hiccups. But not the old ones. Yes.
    32:58
    But anyway, so that's a game that Homepoint is looking to produce. And what I understood was that the feedback at the Garnum or whatever it's called, the trade show, was rather positive. so hopefully that will lead to orders for them for that game. Yeah, it's a good fun game to play, Ice Cold Beer. Anybody who's played it will know that. Very sought after in home game rooms and you would think actually in the Ice Cold Beer branding it would have been a very popular game in America now with the rise of craft beer breweries everywhere and barcades and taprooms. Well, this is an easy game to re-theme. Well, yeah, but you could brand it for the individual brewery. Exactly. Or the location. Right. So that will help you sell another game.
    33:57
    Well, okay, so that might be the most re-themed game ever. Yeah, it could be easily done. I've seen it done a couple of times for different places. so it's certainly achievable I've never seen it done very well any better than the original but it's certainly something which lends itself to that Right, so obviously we mentioned Thunderbirds there's a new run being made part of the games being made are well, I really don't like going into disputes and all that kind of stuff but apparently there's a couple of people who prepaid the game and when there's been some, let's call it miscommunication or misunderstanding,
    34:46
    people bought the game and when the game was ready for them, they said like, oh no, I paid for shipping and taxes were also included, while Homepin is saying no, it clearly states that shipping and taxes were not included, so you're still always shipping in Texas.
    35:12
    That's still going on, is it? Well, yeah. I think we've covered it in the past. Hopefully that will be solved by now. Once these games, they're being shipped to Australia, and then these people will get a chance to either pick up their game, and if they don't, then I don't know what's going to happen. but sorry, my time is way too valuable to keep that kind of... Yeah, time is short on time. I feel sorry for people who are in that situation, don't get me wrong, but it's not something that I'm really interested in covering. So I mentioned it, and okay, hopefully with these games being built, those people will eventually get their game, and then let's all move on. Yes, there are plenty of other disputes around that probably deserve a little more attention, but I'm sure we'll hear more on those a little bit later. Right, so, yeah, there are, I can think of one or two, but I can't talk about those at the moment. No, as I say, later, not later in this podcast, but later as in a future podcast. Yes. Okay, so talking of future things, nice segue there into things which are upcoming.
    36:31
    Chicago Gaming, you have a little news on what their next title may well be. Yes, well, I wouldn't call it a surprise. Obviously Chicago Gaming is the company that is Known for Their remakes of Williams Games Williams Valley They did Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars And most recently Monster Bash And a lot of people Are expecting that Cactus Canyon Which was the last Normal sized Pimple machine produced by Bailey Williams with software that was never finished and the production line cut short to make way for Pinball 2000 at the time that game has already been rumoured to be next in line and interestingly it appears that a representative of let's call it that because I don't know exactly well I know who it might be but I have no confirmation of that name so a representative of Chicago Gaming reached out to a parts manufacturer or parts manufacturer and seller a pinball part shop asking for them if they knew the guy who wrote the code for Cactus Canyon continued to reach out and contact them. And they left a phone number, and of course,
    38:15
    the owner of the company got in touch with the programmer who wrote that code, gave the number, and as far as I understood, the programmer tried calling them a couple of times, only to have his calls never been answered. But the fact that someone high up the ladder in American Pimble is reaching out for this programmer and that software, it appears, seems to indicate that Cactus Canyon can be sort of believed to be the upcoming remake title for Chicago Gaming Company. Well, that's not entirely unexpected, is it? that Cactus Cannon would be the next one, and it would be the continued version, or at least something based on the continued version, maybe continued further.
    39:19
    Then Eric got to, with his version, although I think everyone who's played that one thinks it's almost like a work of art, how he's built on the original game and added so much more to it. Yeah, it will be interesting what Chicago's gaming take on that game will be. So far they've stayed very close to using the original code, enhancing it with a color display, a bigger display, and adding, in the case of Monster Bash, additional light shows and RGB LEDs to improve the current light show, so to speak. So it will be interesting to see what their plans are with Cactus Canyon, if that turns out to be their next remake, of course. Then again, so far they haven't been really... Chicago is not really known for keeping their future games secret. I mean, Monster Bash also leaked out months and months before the game was finally announced.
    40:32
    Yes, it's very hard to keep that kind of secret, isn't it? When you have to start ordering parts for these games with such a reasonably long lead time. If you're going to start ordering aprons with guns on them, for instance, then people are going to realize what that next title is going to be. Particularly, I think, in the case of Monster Bash, when they applied for a trademark, didn't they, on the game, on the use of the Monster Bash title. Yeah, but it also didn't help that Doc Scorer, when he was still working at the company, did an interview with, I think it was Replay Magazine, where they basically had a photo of a part of the factory within the back game Monster Bash playthrough. hmm how well anyway so that's what they are working on but they're not working on another title which some people have been speculating they might be producing yes obviously there was a list of that was published I think last year or even in 2017 of titles that Planetary pinball um was offering i think to chicago gaming or i'm not even sure if that's accurate the way that i describe anyway there was a list um and that also included theater of magic and big bang bar uh theater of magic being a belly williams game of course but big bang bar is a capcom title And as far as I talked to a representative Of Chicago Gaming Who told me Big Bang Bar is not on their radar At the time when I talked to him So as a reporter I don't want to rain on everybody's parade But once we know that something is not on the radar, can we please accept that it's not on the radar and not keep bringing it up as a future potential title? Sure, the potential is always there, but it's not on their radar. That means it's not a priority for them. Yeah, it's something worked on at the moment. Right. So, frankly, I think the chances are that we might even see an original design from Chicago Gaming sooner than we might see a remake of Big Bang Bar. So, take that for whatever you think that it is. But, obviously, nobody would be surprised to see that Chicago Gaming, at some point, they will be starting to design their own games, and I think that might happen, or maybe they already working on it and we don know yet But I see that happening sooner than that they would do a remake of flipping bar yeah that would be a quite a leap really um from from coming out with a a known popular and successful product uh in a remake form to bringing out an entirely new game with with no history to it and having to basically sell it to the public in a way that they haven't had to really sell. I mean, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, everybody knows them, and people were clamoring for them, and being able to buy one in new condition was almost a no-brainer, unless you absolutely had to have an original. But with a new title, you're starting from scratch. Why would you buy this over Cosmic Carnival? Why would you buy it over the latest Stern? because nobody knows anything about it at that point.
    44:28
    Right, but then it's probably an even playing field. I mean, it's not like, sure, I can understand that they don't have the advantage of the game being known, but it doesn't mean that it couldn't be a good game. Oh, absolutely not, no. And also, remakes, after you've remade all the A titles, the ones which are in any way scarce, when you're looking for a good example, you have to start looking elsewhere, don't you? Right, so since Theatre of Magic was on that list and let's do a little speculation would you say that is a title that's very much in demand?
    45:05
    No, I think if you wanted a Theatre of Magic you could easily get one and the repro playfields out there all the parts are really available there's some lovely looking modded ones out there with the working Tiger Saw and Mirror Blades and all sorts of chains and other features added onto the play field. So if you're looking for a top-end theater of magic, I don't think you'd have any problem in finding one now. Although maybe if Chicago can bring it out at a reasonable price, then save people the problem or the trouble of trying to find one. The standard Montalbash model was a very reasonably priced. It was. Yeah, I agree. And I think if people are in the market for a remade theater of magic, obviously then they would be interested in a game that has a larger display in color and maybe a topper as well.
    46:03
    The question is, okay, is that a $9,000 game or whatever it is, an 8.5, I'm not even sure at this point, but don't quote me on those numbers. So instead of the standard model for 6,000, are those extras worth that extra money? Well, you are starting to move down the ladder of pricing. And unless you do the same with the new remakes, which then in turn leads to lower profits, and compared to maybe their own fully featured design, could be a more expensive game. with a better profit for them. So on a slightly related but totally unrelated topic.
    46:51
    That covers everything. So Chicago Gaming has been making remakes of existing titles. Would there be a market for a remake of, take any specific Williams title, but remake it with a different name and and basically rebrand it so for example see if you can i don't know let's take whitewater or the shadow but not as whitewater or the shadow but find a new license or a new theme and would there be a market for such games or is it like no you can find the original one, why would you bother?
    47:41
    Yeah, I think it would be a lot of work, really, and you'll almost certainly end up with something which is less desirable than the original, and if there are plenty of originals out there, why would you do it?
    47:54
    These games were built with those themes in mind, and unless you can come up with something which is very similar in terms of how the gameplay and the playfield features map to the theme, you are on to a loser, and it's going to be something that's going to be very, very similar to the original theme, so it doesn't sound like a goer to me, but I'm willing to be proved wrong. Okay, so if we are looking at the little speculation, if we are looking at all the Bally Williams titles that Chicago Gaming basically has the possibility to take them and remake them which titles would you say are stand a good chance of being actually adding something to the original and so that people would actually be interested in it I think you should be looking at some of the I wouldn't say less successful but the ones that sold fewer numbers than they probably could have done if they had a better theme attached to them or a more accessible theme one which immediately springs to mind to me is No Fear which I think it's a fast game and there's nothing on that game that particularly ties it to No Fear as a theme or even to the different sports which are featured in there.
    49:34
    It's basically just a bunch of very fast, long shots with the exception of the tube shot on the left, which is like the standard get-out, terminator kick-out. But other than that, it's fast. It's got an upper playfield with like a supercharger-type thing with a flipper on it, and that could be used in many different ways. So that would be a good one. I think, to re-theme. Right. But I'm sure there are others. I mean, we've seen games like Noga Gophers, for instance, being re-themed as Caddyshack or something like that.
    50:10
    Although that's an old title, but if it was something more relevant these days, such as a golf-type theme, then it could be done. Obviously, you've still got the Gophers in the game, unless you replace those with something else. Right. But would you see a market for, let's say, a remake of Indiana Jones or even Adam's Family?
    50:33
    No, I think those playfield designs are so tied to the original theme. Just as a remake of Indiana Jones, would there be a market for that, just with the upgraded display, new LEDs and RGB LEDs? would there be a market for them? There's definitely a market, yes. Whether it's big enough to make it worth their while in developing all that. To go and spend time working on the high-res graphics for the bigger screen, maybe reworking the software.
    51:13
    Unless you can actually add anything much to the game, then why are you doing it? There's plenty of models out there if you want them. Right. Okay. So, oh, well.
    51:26
    So let's round this up. I think that was it. And like I said at the beginning, you have somewhere to go and I have somewhere to go. Absolutely, yeah. There was one more thing. I think we mentioned about there was an update this month about our colleagues at Paper Flock. Oh, right, yeah. And what they've been announcing. Well, we mentioned it last time. Yeah, well, that's interesting in terms of both editors as well.
    51:54
    We mentioned it last month. Yes, there has been an update on the 200 Years of Stern book. Oh, no, it's a 30 Years of Stern book, but rather late. Actually, two years late, based on the delivery date that they originally projected in that Kickstarter program that they did for that. And so what happened was soon, well, I'm not saying that there was any relation to our podcast, but soon after our last podcast came out, which we discussed that they were two years late, An update came out in which, interestingly, the people who bought, who supported that project in the first place, were given the option with the story that the book had been designed, and then they decided to improve the layout of certain pages. And they made a comparison. and they showed what pages looked like originally, which was really bad. And then they showed a layout which was far more likely to be liked by people,
    53:18
    in the sense that the really bad pages showed a playfield photo that didn't even have the entire playfield on it, but just a portion of it, which makes me wonder, like, why on earth would you even show that? I mean you want to show the whole play field and not just a portion of it so whoever was doing the layout of that book is either a complete amateur who knows nothing about pinball and then I still find it hard to believe that if you're hiring such a non-amateur or such an amateur to do these layouts I'm expecting that you look at the first couple of designs that someone like that would have done if you're not doing it yourself and then tell them no that's not what we want, we want it like this you're not having an amateur designer design a complete book only then to find out like it looks like crap, we have to do it all again that's completely not a viable story in my book, let's put it like that and I'm even thinking that they actually, the good pages is actually how the book is completely designed. They just threw in a few couple of bad page designs as a comparison, but they made believe that that was how the entire book was made out, and now they need more time to improve the layout on all these pages.
    54:50
    Yes. So the basic idea was they asked the backers, should we put it out as it is in the original design, as they call it, which, as you say, is not good, or should we be given more time to make it look like the improved look? and of course everybody said well no that original one not everybody, 90% of people said we want the new look, we want the improved layout we don't like the old one with the implication there that they're willing to allow them more time and I think they said they wanted two months or something like that I can't see how you can go from one to the other in two months because there's a lot of work can do that that's not i mean it's only it's going to be a 200 page book so i can easily see i would need less time to do that but i would have designed it better in the first place that's um so they could do that but basically they the whole thing reeks of basically um pulling a um a tactic to basically have the your backers themselves at all times yes exactly yeah so uh you're already what you were always going to do anyway yeah yes so so it worked for them and uh now we still have to see whether we'll whether the book will be available in two months yeah okay well well i'm not gonna say any more on that because uh i obviously wish them well and i really hope they do get the game out but um book but okay sorry book yes sorry the book of games out um but past performance isn't uh promising is it um well it's not not speaking in their advantage so to speak no no so anyway let's uh let's see what happens there and uh hopefully in the podcast after next we'll be able to announce that the book is out and uh and being or at least being published and being sent out right yeah so fingers crossed for that Right, okay, so Like we said at the beginning, this is going to be a rather short one Although I do think we even went Rather in depth in certain topics So, thank you very much Always a pleasure Discussing these pinball updates Would you hold on Oh, guess what Oh, really, now? Yes We've got to go? Yes You're going, I'm going For those listening, you'll probably hear my phone ringing In the background And yes, we have Gary calling. No, we don't have time for that. Next time. Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for listening. And I hope you enjoyed this look back on the month of May 2019. So from me, Martin Erb, and from... Me, Jonathan, from Pimmel Magazine. We wish you a very happy June. And we'll be back at the end of the month to look back at all the events that have taken place this month. Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.