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Episode 169 – Something To Be Desired

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 53m·analyzed·Jul 1, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

RPC opens with Alien QC issues; multiple Rochester tournaments announced.

Summary

Slam Tilt Podcast episode 169 features hosts Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale discussing the opening of the Rochester Pinball Collective, Zach's new Pinball Brothers Alien machine with significant quality control issues, and upcoming tournaments in the Rochester area. The episode covers Pinclash 2 results, IFPA reopening on August 1st, and multiple tournament announcements including Pinberg Memorial (July 17th), Death Ball 2021 (August 28th), and Stomp West 4 (September 25th).

Key Claims

  • Pinball Brothers' Alien machine has a xenomorph head mechanism that works approximately 25% of the time (2 out of 6 attempts observed)

    high confidence · Bruce and Ron directly observed the failure rate during stream; Zach confirmed the issue

  • Pinball Brothers Alien has received 173+ support tickets from approximately 30 delivered machines, averaging roughly 7+ issues per customer

    high confidence · Zach reports ticket numbers 156-173 from his own account; states 30 games delivered total

  • Pinball Brothers Alien machines use non-adjustable eddy switches embedded in custom PCBs with no user-accessible tuning options

    high confidence · Bruce identifies the technical limitation; contrasts with traditional adjustable leaf switches

  • Rochester Pinball Collective opened with 45+ machines and immediately added Serpent Safari as a new title

    high confidence · Ron and Bruce confirm opening details and game additions

  • Pinclash 2 was held on the same day as RPC's opening; Zach McCarthy won $1,000 plus additional prizes

    high confidence · All three hosts confirm coinciding dates; Zach describes watching simultaneously

  • IFPA membership will increase from $1 to $2 starting August 1st when tournaments resume sanctioning

    medium confidence · Hosts joke about the price increase; Ron references Josh Sharp needing more money

  • Stu McVicker has been banned from IFPA since a run-in with Roger Sharp, and will compete in Pinberg Memorial as his last chance

    medium confidence · Ron states the ban is ongoing; Stu claims he's banned due to being 'too good'; hosts discuss continuing the ban

  • Bruce moved to a house 10 minutes from Zach; the move required 227 U-Haul trailers plus a trailer

    high confidence · Bruce confirms the move and proximity; details the scale of the move

  • Pinball Brothers Alien has custom-made legs described as 'the worst looking legs I've ever seen' compared to 1970s EM machines

Notable Quotes

  • “Well, it is the weekend, to be fair... Oh, okay. And they got right back to you, right? Well, it is the weekend, to be fair... It's about Monday there.”

    Zach / Ron @ mid-episode — Sarcasm about Pinball Brothers' customer service response being an auto-generated help desk portal instead of direct support

  • “So, I currently make up about 6% of all the issues entered... Considering that they've delivered about 30 games so far and have 175 issues logged, that's an average of like about seven issues per person.”

    Zach / Ron @ mid-episode — Quantifies the severity of QC issues on the new Alien machine

  • “The quality control is something to be desired on this game... Yeah, that's how I would hear that too. Some things are really good. And some things are really bad.”

    Ron / Bruce @ mid-episode — Episode title reference; characterizes mixed QC issues on Alien

  • “It's fun. Okay, Bruce, how long until he sells it? Oh, I think it'll be a while. Oh, you think it'll be a while? Yes, I think it'll be at least four or five months. Well, last one he sold in two months, so don't go there.”

    Zach / Bruce / Ron @ mid-episode — Hints at Zach's pattern of selling machines quickly despite expressing enjoyment

  • “They're not using switches anymore... Well, they weren't before either... But there's a tiny eddy sensor that magically senses balls wirelessly through the wood, and I don't think I have any ability to tweak it in any way.”

    Bruce @ mid-episode — Identifies technical limitation of Pinball Brothers' design approach

  • “You got a new game, Zach. I did, yeah. Wow, he's laughing already. I played it tonight. Bruce played it and it broke instantly.”

    Ron / Zach / Bruce @ early-episode — Sets up reveal of Zach's new Alien machine with expectation of problems

  • “Well, knowing one of said people was going to probably be playing in the tournament, I don't want to do that. It's a good thing I already ordered another giant pinball.”

    Zach — Teases competitive talent in Death Ball 2021 tournament without naming them

Entities

Ron HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonZachpersonRochester Pinball Collective (RPC)organizationPinball BrotherscompanyAliengamePinclash 2event

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Rochester Pinball Collective successfully launched with immediate community adoption; attracted players from 4+ hours away; 45+ game library operational

    high · RPC opening details; Jerry Bernard's 4-hour drive; tournament announcements at venue

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Widespread acceptance among pinball community of inconsistent QC as industry norm; strong playfields paired with mechanical/electrical issues becoming expected

    medium · Ron's statement: 'It seems like that's the normal case in pinball lately. Playfields good. Everything else. Yeah. I still accept it.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stu McVicker's participation in Pinberg Memorial despite IFPA ban generates tournament interest; competitive players potentially avoiding contests if known presence would deter participation

    medium · Ron revealing Stu's participation as 'bombshell'; Zach claiming he's afraid of losing Death Ball title to unnamed strong player

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pinball Brothers providing auto-generated help desk portal responses rather than direct manufacturer support, with slow weekend response times

    high · Zach contacted via website form; received auto-generated response linking to help desk account setup

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pinball Brothers using custom PCB-embedded eddy sensors without user-adjustable tuning, contrasting with traditional adjustable leaf switch approach; limits operator/owner ability to troubleshoot

    high · Bruce's technical analysis: 'there's a tiny eddy sensor that magically senses balls wirelessly through the wood, and I don't think I have any ability to tweak it in any way'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.341

0:00
What are you boys watching? Hey, hey, hey, hey! Get out of the way, dammit. Sorry boys, but as Stuart's mother, I need to protect him from the media's glamorous portrayals of violence.
0:12
There, that's better. Why don't you watch baseball? There's the wind-up, and the pitch. Oh my God, he beat the batter, right in the nut. Matt, there's a man up there. I think he got him in the testicle. That was a pretty good game.
0:41
Sorry, guys. Damn it. What the hell is your mom's problem, Stuart? Your mom sucks. Coming to you from beautiful Uxgate, New York, this is the Slam Chill Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett. You're with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. It's been one month since you heard from us. Not exactly. I think it's like three weeks. No, four weeks. Four weeks, really? We recorded last time. 5-30-21. Oh. All right. It's been one month since you heard from us. Okay. This is episode 169.
1:32
Yeah. I like it. And we have our third host is here. Really? I can go home? Good. I'll see you guys later. No, no, no. Hi, Zach. Hi. There you go. I don't even announce as a guest anymore. It's just third host. Assistant host. Assistant host, yes.
1:53
Oh, man. It's been a long time, Bruce. Yeah, I know. How have you been doing? Well, I had this past week off, so that was good. Yes, I heard you went somewhere. I have all the inside info. You have all the inside info. I know where you go. I have spies all over the country. I know where you go. I know what you do. I know everything about you. Yes, Mr. Anderson. Just wanted to say, I looked at our numbers, and you know how Zach Vinnie said that you had one of the higher rated shows, like when you were a guest? He said that. Yeah, yeah. He did not do the same thing for us. Oh.

high confidence · Helper who unboxed Zach's machine made the comment; Zach confirms observation

  • Harry Potter pinball production backlog caused Sonic the Hedgehog delays from April to June/July/October

    low confidence · Not explicitly mentioned in this episode; included from prior knowledge base context

    • @ mid-episode

  • “I'm in contact with Stu McVicker, the world-famous Stu McVicker of the 1978 Playboy Long Party Champion... He is going to play in this tournament.”

    Ron @ late-episode — Announces controversial IFPA-banned player participating in local tournament

  • “I tried doing some test runs of the qualifying challenge. I was like, I don't feel like sitting here trying to play this thing over and over enough times to actually qualify.”

    Zach @ mid-episode — Explains why Zach didn't compete seriously in Pinclash 2's Avengers spinner challenge

  • “Well, it seems like that's the normal case in pinball lately. Okay. Playing fields. Okay. Everything else. Yeah. I still accept it.”

    Ron / Bruce @ mid-episode — Characterizes industry trend of strong playfields but inconsistent overall quality

    • Pinberg Memorial
    event
    Death Ball 2021event
    Stomp West 4event
    Stu McVickerperson
    Zach McCarthyperson
    Asher Lefkoffperson
    IFPAorganization
    Roger Sharpperson
    Josh Sharpperson
    Knox Amusementscompany
    Pinfestevent
    Jerry Bernardperson
    Serpent Safarigame
  • ?

    event_signal: Multiple Rochester-area tournaments announced in quick succession following IFPA reopening August 1st, indicating pent-up tournament demand

    high · Pinberg Memorial (July 17), Knox Amusements tournament (August 1), Death Ball (August 28), Stomp West 4 (September 25)

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Brothers' second machine (Alien) experiencing adoption challenges with high defect rates and poor initial reception despite being new manufacturer entry

    high · 175 QC tickets for 30 machines; Zach predicting 4-5 month ownership (previously sold similar machine in 2 months); Bruce's skepticism about retention

  • $

    market_signal: IFPA increasing membership fee from $1 to $2 coinciding with tournament reopening August 1st

    high · Hosts confirm fee increase and joke about IFPA/Josh Sharp needing additional revenue

  • ?

    product_concern: Pinball Brothers Alien machine exhibits widespread QC issues: xenomorph head mechanism 25% functional rate, custom non-adjustable eddy switches, poorly constructed legs, spinners misadjusted, loose coil bracket screws. Approximately 175 support tickets from 30 machines (7+ issues per customer average).

    high · Zach's direct observation and support ticket data; Bruce's technical analysis; helper's assessment of leg quality

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Gradual market acceptance of persistent quality issues in new releases; hosts accepting QC problems as standard despite criticizing them

    medium · Bruce's acceptance of Alien issues despite listing them; Zach keeping machine despite 175 support tickets

  • ?

    technology_signal: Widespread adoption of custom PCB-based solutions across pinball manufacturers reducing owner/operator ability to adjust and troubleshoot machines

    medium · Bruce's comment on Pinball Brothers contrasting with unspecified other manufacturers 'love these days, except Spooky'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Rochester Pinball Collective operating model includes match play tournaments with era-based game rotation (banks of EM, solid-state, modern games); serves as community hub for competitive and casual play

    high · Tournament format descriptions for Pinberg Memorial and Stomp West 4

    • 2:39
    Mer. The Topper King has failed. Crash and burn. Actually, the biggest drop starts around March 2020. Gee, I wonder what happened then. I don't know. Maybe something that made people work from home so they didn't drive anywhere. And no tournaments. Yeah, without the tournament talk, why would anyone even listen to the show? Exactly.
    3:05
    We're the primary juice for all tournament podcasting. I hear you. Most of the criticisms we get are for too much tournament talk. And yet, when tournaments stop, our viewership drops. Yeah. Okay, so no correlation to the pandemic at all? No. It was all tournament. It was all tournament stop because of the pandemic. Yes. Okay. It's definitely not the case I haven't listened to the past two episodes still because I've never been driving my car anywhere.
    3:31
    You drove today, though. Yeah, for like 20 minutes. But you still drove. So you haven't listened to us at all, Zach? No.
    3:40
    Wow. So we haven't listened to the fifth episode. Wow. So even our permanent third co-host doesn't listen to the podcast. I mean, I'll get nice with the content just by, like, listening to you talk, so. Oh. Well, I shouldn't say anything because out of the three of us, only one actually listens to the show. Who's that? That would be you, Bruce. I haven't listened in a while. I think you meant because you edit it, so it's wrong. Yes, I was thinking. Oh, what? No, that doesn't count as listening. That's work. Yeah, but you listen to it. Only because I have to. Yeah. All right, all right. So I had the week off. Yes. How was it? It was good. It was good not being at work. Why weren't you out here helping me move? Yeah. It was my first week off since July of last year. Okay. Zach was out here helping me move. Yeah, it was a real long drive. Yes. I'm now 10 minutes from Zach, which is really cool. Unfortunately, he had to move a ball bowler. Again. Oh, that thing? Yes, that thing. So, Bruce, you moved. How did it go? Was it great? Are you all, like, settled in? No, God, no. The office is half in shambles. I'm in it right now. The living room's complete. Our bedroom's complete. Bathrooms are both complete. Pool works. Pool's great. We have an in-ground pool. I was on the floaty today, my dachshund floaty.
    5:09
    Oh, my. I was on my wiener this morning. but uh i was uh doing some things uh we still have the basement is complete disaster i haven't done anything with that and our master bedroom which we are living in the spare bedroom right now is waiting for furniture and we're waiting for for our washer and dryer so we have a while okay yeah but it went well uh we had uh seven to eight people help out luckily they were big big help. We had two, we filled 224, sorry, 227 U-Haul trailers and a trailer trailer.
    5:50
    A whole lot of shit we moved. And I'm still moving. I'm still getting stuff. You're still getting stuff. Yep. The house still has a playfield in it from a Galaxy playfield. My dolly. I got to sweep out the garage and a couple little things. That's it. You have a valley dolly? I didn't know that. I have a valley. I had a Bally Dolly at one time, but not anymore. But you just said you had a Dolly. Yes, a Dolly. A Bally Dolly. No, a Dolly. A Dolly Dolly. Dolly Llama. Okay, bad attempt at a routine there. Flames out horribly. Let's move on.
    6:26
    So you're moved in, but not completely, but it's in process. It's in process. And plus, we opened our PC, the Rochester Pinball Collective. Segway!
    6:39
    Yes. I was there for that. Won't help you move, but, you know, I'll be there for the opening of the RPC. I'll be there for pinball. Well, I didn't play that much, honestly. But you helped set up the rig. Yes, the rig. The rig.
    6:54
    I think you have bad, I think you have wireless interference there for all the other shit in that building. Yeah, there's a lot of. You must have like a shortwave radio station operating in the lower floor somewhere. Yeah, I think so. The pizzeria. It's got to be the pizzeria. No, I know what it is. It's the lotto machine. The lotto machine is called the universe. Yeah, downstairs in the pizzeria. So we need to line all our walls with tinfoil. There you go. Or just around our heads.
    7:21
    So how did it go, Bruce? Went very well. We were very happy with the attendance. Jerry Bernard was our first customer. Wait a minute. Jerry? He's from Orange County, New York. Yes, and he knows a good thing when he sees it. He saw good playing games in upstate New York. And he drove four hours for it. That's pretty hardcore. That is pretty hardcore. Do you think he's our farthest driver so far? So far, yes. Yes. So it's Jerry and Frank, Towley and Scott, all from the Orange County area, drove all the way over to Rochester to go to the Rochester Pinball Collective. Yep. And we are selling T-shirts. We have snacks and drinks and 45-plus games for your enjoyment. I even streamed last night by myself. You did? You did. I was surprised. Well, you had other people with you. I had other people with me, but I was actually able to set it up and get it going. All by himself. It's so easy, it sets itself up. I know. And I got my best game ever on Big Game. Did you get a seventh digit? I got, yeah, I need a seven. No, I didn't need a seven or the eighth digit. I did need a seven digit, but I didn't need an eighth. I would be really impressed if you got an eighth digit on big game. Yeah, that would be really impressive.
    8:42
    I don't know if I've ever broken a million on that game. I got two million on stream. Two million on stream. Was it a golden stream? It was the goldenest. The showers were falling on me. Oh, okay. You brought it up. Yes. Then you brought it down. I brought it down right away. Right away. Oh, man. I'm just looking at it. There's this huge checklist today. There is. Just show notes up the asshole. Oh, my. So we got RPC opening. What happens if I want to go to the RPC, Bruce? When is it open? It is open right now, Saturdays, from 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. And soon, on July 8th, we'll be opening from 5 o'clock to 11 on every Thursday. And on Thursdays, you'll be able to join us every other Thursday for Team League. Look at our website at Rochester Pinball to check it all out. Is that what it's called? RochesterPinball.com? I think so. Okay. Or ROCPinball.com. Or ROCPinball. We have a lot. You have a lot. No one knows how to spell Rochester. Yeah. That's true. We've repaired a lot of games so far, but we keep all 45 up, and we even have a new game. We have a Papa Classic favorite. A Ron Howitt favorite. It's a Ron Howitt favorite. I was really hoping Diamond Lady would get sold so this game could take its place. And it did. And it's Serpent Safari. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Serpent Safari, yeah, Serpent Safari, yeah. Do you think that Serpent Safari, Ron, Bruce, is the best off an Eric Gottlieb? I do like lights, camera, action. You're so high on that. And I also do like Robo Wars. Okay. There is Hoops. There's Hoops, too.
    10:34
    Is Hoops better than Surf and Safari? No. I don't think so. I like Surf and Safari. I don't know. No, Hoops is better. It's just the dragon thing that gets me. It's definitely Hoops. I mean, Steve Kirk had an influence on Surf and Safari. The palm tree things were his idea. Yeah, the ones that keep falling off on me. Yeah. And are irreplaceable. But it was Steve Kirk's idea, so it's part of Steve Kirk is there. That just instantly makes the game better. Is that one of the five games that has Steve Kirk influence then? Six. Six now. Six games. What are the six games? What are the six games, Ron? Well. Bam, go. Up the Stars, Meteor, Nineball, Gametron. Yeah. the stupid here come the guards game. Swords of Fury.
    11:24
    Servant Safari. That's six. That's five. That's six. Eagle six. That's six. Oh, we're still missing one, then. Oh, okay. I don't know what to say this one is, then.
    11:35
    Truck Stop. Yes, you did. Oh, yeah, okay. Was that like Ramp Warrior or something? Yes. We're going to prototype Ramp Warrior, which is a re-theme to Truck Stop. Yes, it was. Probably the worst seen downgrades ever seen. So you would have preferred Ramp Warrior. I mean, I don't like getting any worse. So anything else must be better. Well, speaking of new games, segue, segue. You got a new game, Zach. I did, yeah.
    12:06
    Wow, he's laughing already. I played it tonight. Bruce played it and it broke instantly. It's my gift. All right, so before we say what it is, just as you're driving along listening to the podcast or whatever you're doing while listening to the podcast, what do you think it is? What would Zach get and would just break instantly? I'll give you a clue. He usually breaks instantly on me also. Mm-hmm. It has broken on you instantly also twice. I'll give you a clue. Game over, man. Game over.
    12:38
    Wow. What? Bill Paxton line? It's like one of the most famous lines in the damn movie. It is, actually. He actually makes the game. Because the Gourney Weaver's not in it.
    12:49
    Of course, we were talking about Alien, which, of course, Zach, have you seen either Alien movie, Alien or Aliens, that that game is based on? I've heard they're movies that have people in them. So you haven't seen them. And they're probably in space. Now, have you seen them, Ron? Yes, I've seen both of them. Hell, I saw Aliens in the theater. Ooh. Back when James Cameron made good movies. Ooh.
    13:18
    There are different movies, too. One is kind of more horror theme, and the other one's kind of more like action. I was just confused by that, because I'm like, okay, I know the first one is horror, just like the vague things. I know Aliens is not that, and then there's Alien vs. Predator. That's a totally different... That is sure a franchise that's going over the place everywhere. They jumped the shark, then. So, Zach, you must have got one of these great highway pinball aliens, right? The ones that no parts are available for? Yes. You can't find anywhere for less than $10,000? Yes. No. Oh, so you must have got one of these brand new pinball brothers slash highway pinball machines. Yeah, the one that's definitely going to be much better because they learn from their mistakes. Yes.
    14:06
    No, they didn't. I watched the stream, and I saw the Xenomorph head fail. It was about two for six. I think we're averaging one out of four. So it works 25% of the time. The main cool mech in the game works 25% of the game. Hold on. On the Highway Pinball machines, if it didn't work, it was zero for zero then. So he's better. He is right. He is better than the Highway Pinball ones. Well, it's not like the xenomorph head makes a really loud grinding noise when you group the game up. Only during test and attract mode.
    14:43
    What? For some reason, it's completely quiet during gameplay. It works. It sounds fine. It just doesn't make sense. I'm so confused. So how's the flipper power? Is it great? It's actually a good one. Yeah. They faithfully reproduced the flipper feel. Yes. I don't think it's actually that bad for this game. No, it's actually not that bad. I will say that's one of the pluses of this game. Wow. Like, you're never in trouble making any of the shots. It flies around the room just fine. It goes off all the ramps. It's not like Star Wars or something blasting all over the place at you at high speed, but I don't think it needs that for the theme and the layout that it has that much. They don't feel weak. If you play other pinball machines, you might think they're weird, but I don't mind it. Alright. They thematically turn the super strength down. Put it that way. Thematically, okay. So what do you think, Bruce? Do you like it? No.
    15:38
    So what's wrong with it? You just don't like Alien. I just don't like Alien. But there's a lot of other issues.
    15:48
    They're not using switches anymore. Well, they weren't before either. I know, but, well, I'm assuming the old ones used adjustable eddies or something like that, but there is nothing to adjust that we can find. So Zach has a couple of eddy switches that don't work well. They don't work well. I mean, they do work, but it's like, you know, like if there's a leaf switch, I'd adjust the leaf switch to be a bit closer. Yeah. Something to fix an issue. But I'm like, well, somewhere in this giant custom-made PCB that's on the bottom of the play field that all the manufacturers love these days, except Spooky, there's a tiny eddy sensor that magically senses balls wirelessly through the wood, and I don't think I have any ability to tweak it in any way. Yeah. I like the humor in the game. I love the video. The video is the best part of the game. The way they overlaid all the graphics on it and everything like that, and the integration, that has to be the best part of this game. The shots suck.
    16:53
    They have sucked since two years ago. They're fine. They suck. They fit the theme. Yeah. Suck. Hey. That's a great theme. No, those are good movies. They don't suck. No, no, no. The theme. Not the movies. The theme. The theme is to suck? I didn't think it was a porno game. It almost is. It's almost. Oh, God. So what does the xenomorph do in the porno? Oh, man. I don't even want to know. Oh, my. Make lots of noise for a few seconds.
    17:24
    Good gravy. The quality control is something to be desired on this game. Something. Okay, so it's good.
    17:33
    It's something to be desired. Yeah, that's how I would hear that too. That's how I would hear it. I think you meant to say. No, no, no. I said it exactly. Some things are really good. Oh, okay. And some things are really bad. So you desire things to be really good and really bad. Well, it seems like that's the normal case in pinball lately.
    17:53
    Okay. Playing fields. Okay. Everything else. Yeah. I still accept it. Playfield's been really good. Yeah. Playfield's great. I would say the only actual QC issue that I've seen on the game is one spinners which was misadjusted and the screws came loose on the drop-off kicker coil bracket. And stripped out. Yeah. So it's like, those are the two things that, like, QC should have caught those. And the legs. I don't think QC would catch those because that's probably intended. Hey, what the hell are you talking about? We're Italian. We make this in a tiddly. It needs to look like a Lego. Wow. The person who's helping me unbox it said that I've seen better legs on an EM from the 70s. Yes. And they were right. Wow. These are like the worst looking legs I've ever seen that aren't just like covered in rust or something. Yeah. Really? Yeah, they're pretty bad. Oh.
    18:45
    And so is the Italian reference there. That was pretty bad. Thank you. As an Italian, I'm deeply offended. Good. Congratulations. So I'm going to have you whacked now. That means I did my job. I'm going to write an angry letter to the podcast next episode. Yeah, maybe you should, Ron.
    19:05
    Well, have you contacted Pinball Brothers, Zach, about all these issues? Yeah. I sent them an email using the contact form on their website, and they responded with an autogenerated email linking me to a help desk portal page to make my account.
    19:22
    Okay. You made your account, I assume? Yep. And they got right back to you, right? Well, it is the weekend, to be fair. Hey, what the hell is that? It's about Monday there. What the hell is that? I got in there Saturday afternoon. Oh, okay. And I entered, I think, ten issues in that I noticed. You're not the only one with issues on your new Alien, are you? Well, no, there's every other person who bought the new Alien.
    19:51
    They're going to love Zach, I have a feeling. So, cool thing in the portal, you can see the global ticket number on your ticket. Yes, and what number are you? My first ticket that I entered was 156.
    20:05
    And after Bruce left today, I entered three more tickets, and we're now at 173. Wow. So, I currently make up about 6% of all the issues entered. Excellent. What if they started at 100? Then I make up a lot more than 6%. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Considering that they've delivered about 30 games so far and have 175 issues logged,
    20:30
    that's an average of like about seven issues per person. Assuming they have all set up a portal account and open tickets.
    20:39
    Which they probably haven't. Yeah, so it's probably a lot more. So it's probably averaging even more than like six or seven issues per person. Wow. Yep.
    20:47
    But other than all that, are you happy with your purchase so far? It's fun. Okay, Bruce, how long until he sells it? Oh, I think it'll be a while. Oh, you think it'll be a while? Yes, I think it'll be at least four or five months.
    21:03
    Well, last one he sold in two months, so don't go there. Well, last one I sold in two months, but one month was just me waiting for it. Yes. Yeah, so it was really one month. Waiting for what?
    21:15
    Pinclash. Pinclash? What's that all about? Oh, what a great segue. I knew you were on here for a reason, Zach. He's a Segway master. My one job. Yeah, you're the Segway king. Pinclash. We watched it at the RPC live. Because Pinclash was the same day as the opening of the Rochester Pinball Collective. Complete coincidence. We saw some upsets. We saw the winner, Zach McCarthy, take it all and win how much? Was it $1,000? $1,000 plus some other stuff, I think. To be honest, I didn't really, I was kind of glancing at it as I was there, because there was so much other stuff going on. I wasn't as intently watching as I was the first one.
    22:02
    How about you guys? I mean, I was sort of busy opening a co-op. Yeah, as much as I could, we did watch it. I enjoyed it. It was actually well done for preparation and for all the, it seemed pretty seamless. I mean, the last one seemed pretty seamless, too. Yes, but this one really. This was even tighter, I think, than the first one. She's tight, man.
    22:26
    Asher Lefkoff got upset because he lost on the spinner challenge thingy, which was neat because they had to go back to the video to see. What was it again? You had to have. It's the Hulk spinner thing, and it had to be $20 million. Yes. Something like that. Oh, man. Watching that specific challenge was brutal. It was. Well, you had an Avengers, right? I did, yeah. And you kept it until you realized you weren't going to make it in this contest. Then you sold it. I didn't even try. Well, I realized I wasn't going to make it because I realized I wasn't going to try. Yeah, you wasn't interested.
    23:04
    I tried doing some test runs of the qualifying challenge. I was like, I don't feel like sitting here trying to play this thing over and over enough times to actually qualify. But, of course, you could have if you really wanted to. I don't know what were the top qualifying let's see the cut line was at 30 flips I don't know I'd give myself like 50-50 odds if I'd actually like sat there for every day for a week straight and you didn't want to do that no okay that's fair but kudos to everyone at Pin Clash nice job hopefully you do another one on Alien that'd be cool no I don't think there's Now that things have kind of opened up a bit, and we'll talk about that, upcoming events, I don't really see Pinclass happening any time in the future. I mean, unless that's going to become a thing where we just have virtual tournaments. I think people are going to want to actually go to in-person tournaments. No. So we'll have Stern sponsor Pinclass to fly all the contestants out to a location at Stern High Court at the first finals.
    24:11
    Okay. Stern, make it happen. during the circuit finals and it'll be mostly the same people. Well, speaking of tournaments in general,
    24:22
    on August 1st, IFPA reopens or whatever the wording is. Points count again. Whoppers count again. Whatever. Everything counts. Everything counts again. You get to pay your dollar. I wouldn't want to pay my dollar. Not to be $2. Watch. Josh has been, you know, poor. He needs more money. That's true. With inflation, the dollar should be going up. It should be. It should be at least like $1.08 at this point. I agree. It's not going up. Stop spreading false rumors. But it's funny, when that was announced, how quickly all these early August tournaments started springing up all over the place. Oh, my God. There are just massive whopper-itis out there. Yes. Tournaments in August, you say? Yes, tournaments in August. Are you segueing me again? I gave you the opportunity you could ignore it if you want I could ignore it but we have tournaments in July we do despite them not being IFA sanctioned because the co-op we just believe that it's more fun to compete yes it is so you guys are going to have a tournament there yes at the co-op when's that going to be Bruce that will be July 17th I think we're opening the doors early Zach aren't we Yeah, planning to open around noon-ish, like it started like 12.30, 1-ish. Yeah, I think 1-ish would be better, so we have one full hour of practice and setting yourself up ready to go. But you want to actually come to Thursday beforehand and play more, too? Yes, because Thursday will be open, so you can actually get reacquainted with the games, all 45-plus of them. That would be a very large task. You could do it. One guy did it, two guys did it last night. They played all 45 games. Yeah, we had a customer last week, too, who just came in. He walked the end of one row and just started going down the list. Yep.
    26:15
    All right. Bruce, are you going to be there for that one? Oh, of course not. I know you're not. That's why I asked. Because, you know, some people might want to meet the famous. More people will come to the tournament. Or less, you know, whether they want to meet the famous Bruce from the Slamtail podcast. They want to meet the famous Ron Hallett and Zach. So I'll just, you know, that's when more people will ever come to the RPC. because they don't have to see my ugly mug. So who's running the tournament?
    26:42
    Me. He doesn't sound so enthused. Wow, he is so enthused. I can tell, can't you? I'm glad I came across over the mic. Luckily, he has help. Yeah, luckily I have help. What kind of format is this tournament? It's Pinberg Memorial. What does that mean? In the spirit of Pinberg, may it rest in peace. Okay. so it's going to be all match play. Yeah, it'll be banks of, you know, different eras of games, and you get put in your group, and you play your matches, and then you go to another bank, play your different group, and try to make finals, which is banks of games of different eras. You know how this works. I know how it works. I'm about to let loose a bombshell here. Are you ready? I'm in contact with Stu McVicker, the world-famous Stu McVicker of the 1978 Playboy Long Party Champion. No, he's been missing lately. Ever since he got beat by Scott, he has been MIA. Hey, did you find him again? I found him. Was he on ice? Did he get arrested by ICE? He did not get arrested by ICE. He is going to play in this tournament. Wow. Since he's been banned from the IFPA, this is his last chance. Yeah. I don't know if people realize, he's been banned by the IFPA. He had a run-in with Roger Sharp back in the day, and he's been banned ever since then. We'll have to talk to the president about this Yeah, the Suns have continued it on And kept the ban in place I don't know what the hell he did Stu insists he's banned because he's just too good And everyone's intimidated by him And they wouldn't play in the tournament if they knew he was in it Well, it's good that we'll have such a strong player Like him coming, because I've heard we may have Another strong player coming Yeah perhaps By the time it happens maybe the strongest player Potentially Yeah potentially That all I going to say about that We also have another bombshell to drop today. Okay, I was going to go into more events in the Rochester area, but you can go ahead. This is the event in the Rochester area. Well, which one? Is this Death Ball? This could be Death Ball. But it isn't. No, it isn't, but we'll go to Death Ball first. We'll go to Death Ball because Is it next? This is death ball. It's not next, but... Oh, okay. What's not... Why is it not next? I mean, there's other events between... There's other events, yes, but I'm talking about in the Rochester area. But death ball. What's death ball, Zach? Death ball 2021, to be specific. The next incarnation of my world-famous head-to-head round-robin match play tournament that's only been run once before in 2019. Who's the defending champion? Is it you? I just wanted to hear that. Yes, that's correct. I won the death ball. See, if you win, you get this big, shiny death ball. Now, what would be cool is I should make you bring that and then defend it, and if you lose it, I give the death ball to the next person. You can keep your stand with the year labeled on it and stuff, but you have to give the ball away. Well, knowing one of said people was going to probably be playing in the tournament, I don't want to do that.
    29:44
    It's a good thing I already ordered another giant pinball. Yeah, I don't think I'd be retaining the pinball championship, the death ball championship. So when's this going to occur? August 28th. Ooh. My birthday weekend, coincidentally, just some other news. You'll turn 18? 19? I think I'll 17. 17? So maybe you'll shave soon?
    30:07
    Maybe I'll get a haircut by then. Oh, no, definitely not a haircut. Zach looks like comic book guy right now. He's got his head in a ponytail, his hair in a ponytail. You just need a goatee and a comic book store, and you'll be all set. I don't plan on either of those anytime soon. Oh. So where does this take place?
    30:25
    That's a good question. Still figuring it out. Ah, so this may not be at Castle Zack. It may be somewhere else. It'll be either at Castle Zack or at Castle Rochester Pimmo Collective. Okay. And you were saying this wasn't even the only one in Rochester. What other one am I missing? Our local operator, Knox Amusements, is running a tournament on August 1st. The first possible day we can run an IFPA-sanctioned tournament. He'll be running one at Swillburger here.
    30:53
    So I'm going to be rushing back from Pinfest. Yes, we will be. That also has a tournament. But not a county one. Not an IFPA one. So I'll be rushing back because that'll be Pinfest end Saturday. And I need to be in Rochester at noon on Sunday to play the first IFPA-sanctioned tournament in the area. Wow. There's a lot of tournaments going on. But, wait, there's more. We're losing more viewers as more tournament talk continues. Yes, it does.
    31:22
    Stomp West 4. The search for more pinball. That doesn't even make sense. Star Trek 3 was the search for Spock. Star Trek 4 is like the voyage home. Oh, the voyage. The pinball home. Pinball's coming home, baby. Oh, okay. Are whales involved in Star Trek 4? Well, maybe if some big players come up there, it could be some whales. Or you get a Baywatch game. No. No, sharks. Are there any games with whales in them? Ooh. There's got to be a Mopi Dick game. I'm probably from Europe. What about Waterworld? I don't know. Is there whales in that? I think it's dolphins.
    32:06
    Well, when is this happening, Bruce? I think it's on somebody's birthday. I don't celebrate a birthday, Bruce, but... You do. You will this year. I will this year. I will be forced to celebrate my birthday, yes. September 25th. We will get a chocolate cake and you will like it. I will definitely like it, yes. Double chocolate cake. Chocolate, chocolate, chocolate. Or ice cream chocolate cake, which you would prefer. Regular chocolate cake is fine. The ice cream just melts half the time. Exactly. He doesn't like that. Because you eat it faster then. Well, I could eat it faster, but I'm thinking other people may want to actually eat cake, too. Well, don't think pinball. Getting chocolate all over the buttons and everything. But, yes, September 25th, the Rochester Pinball Collective, the world-famous stop returns. Stop on four. Which, what's the format of our tournament again? Match play. It's match play. And then the finals will be on games of all eras. Yeah. You mean games of all eras or games of every era? Games of every era. Whatever. Yes. Last time at your place, right, we required like one South State, one Alfred Merrick, whatever. Yep. That's the way it should be. Yep. You have to be good at everything. And since the Rochester Pinball Collective is organized with those games and groups, it's perfect. We could probably even set up so that we switch eras per round of the match-day qualifying, too. We want to go really crazy. Good. That'd be even better. Our listeners, just write us in and tell us what you would like. I think most of our listeners don't, actually. I think most of the people playing our tournaments never listen to the podcast, and most people listening to the podcast would never play in our turn. Well, you're supposed to meet all three of us. Ask Ron. Give Ron a hug. Do not give me a hug. If you're vaccinated, give him a hug. No. Wait until the day after, then give him a hug. Are we starting this again with the hug? Yes, of course we are.
    34:02
    Well, also, on August, I just want to mention this, because Ron's going to finally get out on August 7th is the tournament.
    34:13
    Yep, is the tournament at District 82, is that what it's called? The place in Wisconsin that all these tournaments are happening in now. They have like 100-something games there. So they're going to have their first big IFPA tournament on August 7th. And I will be there. I'm going to Wisconsin. Hug them. Say hi. Hugs, big hugs. No one will know who I am. Oh, they will. Just look for a gray hoodie. A gray pullover. What if it's a dark blue one? I don't have a hoodie. Or dark blue. Or not a hoodie, sorry. A gray zip-up, like, what do you call that? Actually, from what I heard, the last tournament they had there, when it was like 90 degrees outside, it was still warm inside. It wasn't really super cool. So I may not have to wear a sweater. Not like the RPC. Yeah, it's freezing at the RPC. You must bring a sweater. We have free XC. Yeah. You definitely do. Freezing my ass off in there. It's too cold. Yeah. Ron, your big gloves next time. Yes. I might have to. We do have to thank Ron. He did a great job setting up our streaming equipment, even though I broke it yesterday. What do you mean you broke it? I broke it. What do you mean you broke it? I broke it.
    35:25
    I literally broke it. Okay. Zach saw the damage. Yeah, you should have taken a picture of that. I should have, but I threw it out. Yeah. The cameras are cheap these days. Oh, sorry. Hey, Ron. Is this a surprise? You're, like, trying to – are you just screwing with me? No, I'm not screwing with you. I did break it, Ron. Zach saw it. Yeah, he somehow bent one of the wheels. Yes. Oh, hence your question about the wheels. Yes, where to get them. I actually tripped over one when I pulled out the rig. I tripped over it, and then I stepped when I tripped on the other leg, and my fat ass bent the wheel. Yeah, you've got to have some weight to do that. Yes, I do. But unfortunately, wait, hold on. Each wheel is rated only for 175 pounds, so I am at least over 175. Yeah, yeah. 175 should be, it should never have that much weight on it, ever. I know, but guess what? No, no. Don't ride the rig. You can't ride it. No, I don't feel trying to. Or to coast around. But we bought a new wheel, and we've installed it already, so we're good. Okay. And it's already recharged, ready to rock. We do have issues with the rig in that just the signal is weird. Yeah, it just certain areas of the room get better than signal than others. We have an adjustable thing so you can actually see it where it goes. You know, you can follow the rig and still not perfect. Not perfect, but it'll have to do. It'll have to do. But the thing is. Nope, I'm putting Ron's reputation on the line. He's going to make it perfect or else. Nope, you will see dropped frames during our tournament stream. I apologize, but that's just the way it's going to be. What you could do is where the receiver bar is, somehow make that motorized. That would be cool. So you just have a remote control. It follows it, just electronic eye, just follows it. Not that, you know, it can go that crazy. You can just make it so it moves. Zach, I think we can do that. What do you think? I mean, I thought you said that even when you turn it didn't help sometimes. It didn't help at all. It didn't help shit. Yeah, that's why I asked that question. The thing that doesn't make sense is that it has perfect line of sight, and it will still have issues. Yep. And people were saying, people were trying to tell me, like, oh, you've got too strong of antennas. Really? Too strong of antennas? No, no. If you have too strong of an antenna, you can actually lose frames. I'm like, no, I don't think so.
    37:46
    Someone wants to tell us different, go ahead, but that just seems weird, because if I watched the stream, by far the thing that was dropping the most frames was the player cam, which is using the other, the one without the antennas. Yes. It's nice to see finally back to sensical camera issues at least. Yes. Yeah. Like before where our better receivers were having issues. Yeah, or just the camera randomly dying because you have to plug it in a specific spot in the battery, which is just so weird. But it does the same thing at my house too. So that is just, now we know. And knowing's half the battle. Yeah, knowing's half the battle. Well, since we're still on the tournament kick, I played in a tournament yesterday. No. What a coincidence. Me too. Oh, you did too. You might have been there also. It was in Syracuse at United Vending Service, their location.
    38:44
    They had a – what kind of tournament was that, Roof? Is that a match play? Yeah. Okay. So it was just like six rounds of straight match play. That's it. Yep. From one to five. Mando Launch Party. Yep. Mando Launch Party. technically, and it finished at five, and there were no finals or anything. It was weird having a tournament actually finish that early. It was weird having no finals either. Yeah. Neither of us won. Actually, me and Zach ended up with the same score. Yep. Played a lot of Mando. That must mean that we're exactly as good to pinball each other, right?
    39:21
    No. We played for like three or four hours afterwards, and I think Zach won almost every game, and it wasn't close. Oh. whatever okay Zach let's see when did I played Zach at the first stop and oh yeah I beat him and won it oh yeah that's right oh my own house oh okay well how about when I was at where was that thing the New York State Finals when I played Zach and I beat him on Star Wars in the final game at Silver Ball Saloon Zach's home arcade at my own house yeah at your own house yes basically your home arcade what about this ball Oh, yeah, on his games. Well, he didn't play in death ball, so I can't really. It doesn't really work here. You beat Ron. I mean, you beat Bruce and he's gone.
    40:06
    Yep. I'm just saying when the stakes are higher, that's when, you know, I come through. Just saying. You know, Pinberg, winner. Just saying. Pintastic winner. Just saying. You know, just Pinberg A finalist over here, you know. Nothing important. Snap.
    40:23
    Yeah, okay. I'll take my C division when I get a nice plaque. Yeah, I've had a hundred people in a total. Well, you know, you don't tell them it was like the first Pinnberg. All right. What was I saying? So I got to play a lot of the new sterns. I played Elvira again. Yeah, pretty much was all Elvira. Let's see. Let's go through what I think. Elvira, I thought was super fun.
    40:49
    Way too easy for me to ever own. although that one played wicked fast yep and it was still too easy that one's so fast I have a streak going now I believe every single time I played Elvira I've gotten to the mini wizard mode the house party thing I did that at Expo when it had beta code on it literally every time I played it I think I did it at InDesk too then I played Avengers I mean shoots really good still don't know what I'm doing Et cetera. And the volume was down on all the... Like, I couldn't hear anything. Well, other than the Attack from Mars. That was really loud. And the Striker Extreme. Oh, Striker Extreme.
    41:34
    I got to play Striker Extreme for the first time. And what do you think? And it was so forgettable. The layout was actually sort of cool. Yeah. With a bit of tweak, like, that layout could actually be pretty fun.
    41:44
    Sadly, the code and all the sounds that it makes were... Oh, you like the music? The music? I always liked the music. I couldn't hear the music. I just heard the guy with the really awful accent just saying things in the latest way possible. Worst Australian accent, the Striker Extreme guy or the guy in Jurassic Park? Worse than me? I think Striker Extreme. No. Okay. Okay, listeners. We should consult with the head-to-head guys and see. Yeah. But before that, listeners, write in, who has the worst Australian accent? Is it the guy in Striker Extreme or the guy in Jurassic Park? I say Jurassic Park is way worse. Or is it Bruce? Or is it me? Well, no, don't say because it is Bruce. He has the worst attitude. So between the other two, who has the worst one? What else? Hot Wheels? I still think Hot Wheels is fun. It is fun. Yeah? I think it's their American Pinball's best game. I have to agree. Yep. Wait a minute. I thought you kept telling me Oktoberfest was the best game. Are you doing a 180? No, I like the Oktoberfest theme. I do like some of the modes in Oktoberfest. but I think Hot Wheels has the most flow, speed I hate the animation is fucking what brings that game down really? I love the animation it's what brings it up how do you feel about the animation in Oktoberfest? I think it's easy to do it's terrible I think the Oktoberfest one is way more eye bleeding than the Hot Wheels one I think it's unintentionally bad the other one is intentionally from the show which is like Robot Chicken Let's see, what else? American Pinball has a good track record on modes, though. Like Houdini, if you could hit any of the shots, the modes were actually sort of cool. Well, it just took five minutes to explain the mode. Yep. And then Oktoberfest had some cool modes in it.
    43:35
    Hot Wheels has some cool modes in it. That's pretty good compared to some of the other games lately.
    43:42
    What do we all think of Mandalorian? I know, it was my first time playing it. I don't know about that. That was my first time, too. I haven't played it yet. Ah. I'll just go put myself on mute and fall asleep.
    43:55
    What? Okay. No, Bruce, we need your unqualified opinions on things. No, I have five years plus. I'm good. Okay.
    44:04
    So what do you think, Zach? Well, the modes all being shoot the flashing shots is a bit of a letdown.
    44:10
    You know, after, like, Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I expect more from Dwight. Wow. He's, like, the one guy who actually can make some fun modes. But you didn't this time. No, you didn't this time or last time. So you played Turtles, too, and Turtles is just like, shoot some lit shots. I'm like, okay, I'll try to shoot them, and eventually I hope you give me a completion bonus. And it does, but I don't know why. Modes and Mandalorians seem to be the same thing, as far as I could tell. I don't know, Ron, how did you think it shoots? Once I actually started hitting shots, it flowed okay. The left ramp was way steeper than I thought it was. Because on the streams, you only see the overhead shot, and I didn't even realize it was a ramp until I saw the thing because it's clear plastic and like, oh man, that thing's really steep. I do not like, this was a pro, I do not like the crisscrossing plastic Abitrails. Oh God, no. They are fucking terrible. You can't see through them. They like refract the light. So I'm trying to see like the inserts and shit through them and you can't. I don't understand how our Abitrails or like two wires going down more expensive than making a whole molded plastic piece. They just use a piece of like triangle bar stock. Yeah, I don't understand why, if it's a cost that really saves that much money. It's definitely, if I were to own a pro, I would not buy a pro unless someone came out with the Happy Trail mod, which we'll probably have. It's especially bad because like, usually it's harder to shoot things on the right hand of the play field. You know, like, that's Steve Ritchie's whole thing is he always puts stuff on the left-hand side because most people are right-handed. So Mando has those three blue shots on the right side that you need to, like, sharpshoot them on a timer for one of the modes, and all three of them are under the plastic ramp, so you can see this sort of blue blur, and you just sort of, like, shoot and hope.
    46:01
    What he said. The other thing is, the things I've heard are the cooler features of the game, like the sound package, the video, all that. I couldn't hear anything. That's the thing. The sound was way down on it. So I noticed at one point there was like some kind of super jackpot, and Zach hit it, and there was an explosion, and then it just cut to the next whatever animation. I'm like, how much was it? Like it didn't really say the – it didn't give how much it was.
    46:29
    Wasn't Lonnie Ropp helping out with the animation? Are you going to start this again? Not again. It's just the truth.
    46:36
    All right, moving on. I can derail it. It just never stops. maybe. Well, if you want to do your Roth analogy, guess what? On this game, you hit the center shot like a certain number of times and multiball starts. And then, once you do that, you hit the same center shot more times and then multiball starts. And then what happens after that round? You hit it even more times and multiball starts. And then you play your three multiballs, right? There's no more, right? You just keep hitting it more times. Oh, good. That I don't like. I like it better when they do something like Like, you have to play a mode before you can do that again, or you have to do something to qualify that again, not you just hit it again. Again and again. I'm sure that, like, Bruce will find out how to just, like, one-time it and just start comboing the shot over and over on the fly. It's just a big loop. Fuck yeah. But I thought it shot okay. Would you buy one, Mr. Star Wars? I mean, did it shoot as good as, like, Avengers when you move a couple games over? No. Would I buy one? No. How can I say this? Mandalorian is the theme. Like, the show is okay.
    47:43
    It does nothing for me as far as, like, I've got to have that. Like, oh, it's Mando, yeah. It's not like Star Wars. But it's got a young Yoda in it. Baby Yoda, yeah. Grogu. I didn't actually see once, like, in the entire game on the screen. Oh, no, he was on the screen. He's on the screen. I just was like, he can't really have any funny call-outs to do because he's... No. But on the screen, there's a thing where he, like, uses the force and the ball sticks to his hand, which makes the fact that he doesn't move even more annoying. It's like, oh, man. I also noticed, because it had, like, you know, regular mode, competition mode and stuff in it now. So, like, it actually said in competition mode, randomness removed, and then what's Baby Yoda's name? Grogu. Not Groot. I was going to say Groot. It said Groot. So it said, randomness removed, group disabled. Because, like, that's some sort of mystery award feature up there in the lanes, right? So I think it just completely disables that whole quarter of the playfield's awards during competition mode, which is weird.
    48:50
    Yeah, we played impossible mode. What do you think of impossible mode? I ignore the fact that I was playing impossible mode and just shot like normal, and I think I only, like, got a warning on a flipper once the entire game. So it's not really that impossible. It's not no hold. It's just don't sit there. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. I had the same experience. I was thinking, like, do impulse whippers like old Williams. That would be interesting. Yeah, when you walked up all one, you were doing that. And I'm like, you don't need to do that. And, like, you figured it out, though. I would almost, like, just leave that on for tournaments. It shouldn't really affect the game that much. And if you do trap up, then just, ha-ha, screw you.
    49:26
    So how about you? Would you get a Mandalorian, Zach? Well, we know the answer. You don't get anything. I got things. You got an alien. Yeah, you got an alien. You wouldn't get this thing, though. And an Avengers. Yeah, but you sold it in a couple months. Yeah, I mean, that's... One month is about the average term for any modern game I ever own. Unless it's Star Wars or... Jurassic Park. Yeah, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, or Alice Cooper. Or Aliens.
    49:53
    Well, you think he's going to keep it? I think he's going to keep Alien a little bit. Five months, at least. Yeah, at least five months. Well, Spooky! Speaking of Spooky... Their new game should be coming out soon. They've been teasing a lot of things, but not actually giving any real information that matters. That's not true. They have put forth some new information on they're changing their structure. It used to be when you buy a spooky game, you could purchase all these add-ons, and they put them on at the factory. Which was nice. So they're doing away with that. Boo.
    50:26
    They're going to go to a multiple model model. Wow, that's revolutionary. Yeah, so pretty much everyone is just doing what Stern does. You know, even the ones that said they would never do that, changing the peak, are now doing it. Does American do that? They're going to do that. They're going to have two. Two. They're going to have standard and, what do they call it? They use their own term.
    50:51
    Yeah, of course. Of course. It's not premium, but whatever the hell it is. But their thing was the plate field was going to be the same, which is what Spooky is going to be. The same play field. Just like Jersey Jack was going to be. Standard might be stand-ups, and then the super LE model has crop targets, whatever, something like that. That still seems like a change, though. Yes, that does seem like a change. It sounds like Spooky was saying they wouldn't even do that. Like, the play field would be play exact the same. Yeah, so what Spooky's doing is they're going to have their standard model, and that's just no frills, standard model. I think it's, what is it, $69.95. Only $7,000 for the low-end model. What's the low-end Guns N' Roses cost, do you know? It was more than a Stern Pro, but it was not, I don't think it was as much as that. I thought it was either $65,000 or $75,000.
    51:42
    I don't know, I'm going to Google it. Is Bruce, are you awake? Hello? He's looking up right now as we speak. Ah, okay, well, he looks that up. Their second model is going to be the Bloodsucker Edition, and that's going to have basically all the stuff that you could put on there. Like if you went through the old method and did every shaker motor. $77.50. That was probably after they did the $1,000 price bump. Yeah, I don't know, but that's what it's on. So they were sitting at $65 something for the Pro, and then they jumped it up to $70 mid-high. $77.50. For the Pro. So the Bloodsucker edition, $79.95, all the add-ons that you could manually ask for. Manually? No, that you could ask for. Then they're going to have, at $89.95, they called it the collector's edition, I believe.
    52:38
    So it's just going to have more fancy stuff on it. But still not a butter cab. If you want a butter cab, that's an extra grand. So lube yourself up to spend that extra $1,000. $99.95. And what they're going to do is they're not going to have set numbers for the models. It's going to be whatever people pick. So, say, whatever they come out with, they say they're going to make 750 of them. I was surprised at that. It's going to be whatever, let's say it's 750, regardless of what the different models are. So, 750 total. So, you can have, you can order the standard edition and be one of one. Yeah, because no one's going to fucking order that. I feel like at least for the collector's edition, I would have thought those should be limited number. That's basically the whole point of the high-end edition is just that limited. Yeah, I agree. Wasn't there a base model $69.95 before? I think for Rick and Morty it was. For Alice Cooper it was cheaper. Yeah, but if you had ordered everything on the list, it would have been more than $1,000. So since it's now $1,000 more, to get all that stuff, wouldn't you just do that? Because you're going to get it. shaker motors and plastic protectors. Why wouldn't you want that? I'd want at least the plastic protectors. I got that for TNA. Yeah, I mean, on Miles Cooper, I got the plastic protectors, and I got it powder-coated because it was only like $60 for full powder coating. I was like, yeah, sure. You didn't get a knocker? I didn't get a knocker. I didn't get a shaker. You don't need a shaker. I didn't get speaker panels or any of that crap. Well, if you don't like them, you can always remove them from the game. So that's going to be the new spooky model They show the underside of the playfield Which looks like a Conventional size So Zack is disappointed Yeah On a wide body But it's going to have two upper playfields Yes That sounds like Wizard of Oz to me Yes How is that a good thing? At least my favorite designer Because the only person who does upper playfields So do we have any idea what we think it is? Don't know. Other than it's a horror theme. So, in the video, he had a Jason mask and a Freddy Krueger hat. And some other guy had a... Evil Dead shirt. Evil Dead shirt on. So, it's either one of those three or none of those three. Yeah, that's, yeah. By their normal trolling methods, yeah. Boinks! Oh, you think it's Scooby-Doo? That would be the one I'd be interested in. That I'd have to start looking at. I would have to actually look at it because my wife is a humongous Scooby-Doo fan. Are you guys in the fan club? I am not, but I could be again. I'm not. I don't expect you to be Scooby-Doo. If you do, you better get in the fan club now because it'll probably be announced any day. I think it's pretty tomorrow. Yeah, by the time this airs, it may have already been revealed. Points! I'm not doing a fan club just on the 1 in 20 chance that they happen to do the theme I like and then that the game actually is good on top of that. I have to because in case it's Beavis and Butthead, you know, I have to just all my avenues. Spooky Pinball, eventually they won't even have to make games. They can just survive off the fan club alone.
    55:53
    Although being that it's, well, they already made up the sci-fi part when they did. Rick and Morty, well, it's sci-fi. It's like horror and sci-fi is what we do. Like, okay. So maybe if they do Beavis and Butthead, horror, sci-fi, and cartoons. We meant to say cartoons is what we did.
    56:10
    So that was Spooky. American Pinball. They were on the Pinball Magazine podcast. The Pinball Magazine podcast? Yep, they have their own podcast, too. There are so many podcasts. Some things that were interesting, they brought up the two models I was talking about, like a standard model, and I don't know what they called them. standard LE, one like the base model, one has the same play field but improved or more features. Interesting thing is, and this is where I got confused. They mentioned like they were going to be, had to be family-friendly themes. But then they asked specifically if every theme had to be family And I think it was Dave Fix said not necessarily So I so confused about whether it has to be family or not
    57:02
    I'm looking at my list of most likely to make Beavis and Butthead, and when a company says family-friendly, then it's like, oh, well. Scratch them right off the list. They're only going to do family-friendly themes in the same way that Spooky only does horror-themed games.
    57:17
    Okay. And they are going to be doing their own board sets in the future. We're no longer using the P3 platform, which I think everyone's dropping. Ametron is their parent company, and that's what they make. They make PCBs. They do it for, like, government and shit. I mean, they have some pretty large clients. I mean, it can hold up in a tank, but can it hold up in a pinball machine?
    57:41
    Nothing can hang up. Yeah. Well, we did much spooky. They're going to be using. That's the one thing. On the underside playfield shot they showed of their new game, you could see the new pinheckboard. Pinheckboard. Giant pinheckboard. Holy crap. Yeah. Yep. That means they're no longer using P3. Is anyone still using P3? Or P-Rock. P-3 is the key platform. Yeah. Multimorphic is the, yeah. So, well, you had, Haggis was using them, but now they have gone to, was it Fast? Fast. I think so. Yes. So, no, I don't think so. And they said, I mean, I know with Spooky, at least Ben Heck said it was cost. And with American Pinball, they were like, they didn't want to reinvent the wheel when they were trying to get the first Houdini out, like in a month or whatever. Ridiculously quick time, they turned it around. So they just used an established board set. But now after the first few games, it's like, well, our parent company makes PCP boards. Perhaps we should come up with our own system. Hopefully they've been designing it for a while already. Hopefully. They're doing that. Maybe they even, like, started on, you know, Octoberfest and just weren't ready. So hopefully they test them a whole bunch.
    58:55
    They have, like, best-in-class reliability right now. Want to keep that up. So that was that. Well, since we mentioned Multimorphic, they're supposed to be going to be coming out with a licensed theme.
    59:10
    Yeah. To blow your excitement. Yeah, okay. I keep hearing it's probably going to be a video game theme. You know, I've always been saying that what pinball needs is someone to do a licensed theme. No one ever does those. No one. Some of the best pinball games in history were licensed themes, you know.
    59:26
    Scott Denisey is doing the music for this new game. I'm excited whenever I hear that. If Scott Denisey is doing music or he's doing light shows, I'm all in. they're doing a licensed game based on probably a video game, but it has custom music. That doesn't... Video games are known to usually have music. That's already digital. It's already designed to be played in the game, you know. So maybe it's not a video game license.
    59:54
    Ever think of that? Wow, snap. I mean, someone told me it was. I don't know who that was. It might have been a few minutes ago. Well, that's just the rumors. That's just the rumors. So you're going into the rumor basket. Uh, okay. I thought we treated it in facts on this podcast. Yeah, we do facts. We don't do c***.
    60:13
    Now I gotta edit that out. I know you will. I mean, speaking of P3 and facts, they've announced a new game for their existing games. Yes.
    60:22
    What does that mean? Heist. Somebody redesigned. Is using the Heist... Nick Baldridge has made a new game code that uses the Heist physical module. Oh. And that's, uh, gonna be revealed tomorrow. which is Monday, which will be after this podcast. Damn it! Okay. I wonder if it's going to be Roadshow 2, The Destruction. No, it's called Silver Falls. Oh. And it's inspired by SimCity, they said, which is a good for the Playfield module, which is a city. I think he's done one or two of these in the past, too. He made, like, an RPG game or something for cosmic kart racing, I think, and maybe one other. So really cool news if you happen to be one of the people who owns a heist module and a P3 to put it in.
    61:08
    Like I say, it is cool that at least one manufacturer actually, like, lets people do custom code for their games. You know, that's sort of nice.
    61:17
    Even if it's in charge for it. Mm-hmm. Let's see, what else do I got here? A Toppers! We have Toppers.
    61:27
    They re-released one. They brought in... Somebody brought a new one out. We got all different Topper news. Yay, Toppers! Let's get to the ridiculous one. So there's a IJ topper. Indiana Jones topper is basically the arc. And it's like gold. And if you got one of the first 25, it came with a smoke machine. So now we have limited edition toppers.
    61:55
    Aftermarket third-party limited edition toppers. That are smoke machines. That's cool. Really? I don't know if you think the condensation around the top of the unit... I've always thought if you modded Bram Stoker's Dracula so it's smoke machine during this multiball...
    62:11
    That's been done. Has it? Not on the playfield. No, I want it on the playfield. Oh, no. But, yeah, the playfield will be wet. Yeah, but they're already all planked anyways. It's okay. Oh!
    62:24
    It's damp. Yeah, I played one that had the... Yeah, when you got in a mist, it would smoke under the game. Yeah, we could just build in a dehumidifier, too. So, it's good. It's fine. Do you have a fire turkey?
    62:37
    Okay. It was also like $2,000 for the IZ Topper. It's the smoke machine one. So, like 10% more than the Starrick. Yeah. 10% more than the what? Selling price for the new R2-D2s and the freaking Black Knight ones are freaking going for $3,000 to $4,000. Stupid money. Should have got them when they were available. I don't need one, so I don't worry about it. I don't need one either. I got my R2-D2 topper. It's great. My star was to be naked without it.
    63:09
    Wow. Oh, my. Well, okay. If you don't like $2,000 toppers, there's a much cheaper topper. No, no, no. They re-released one also, Ron. Who's that? Stern. That wasn't who we were talking about. The IJ topper was from Elite Toppers is the name of the company, if anyone. I know, but we're talking about Stern, how they raise the prices. They raise the prices of all their accessories. All of them. I know you did. As I found out when I looked at my, I installed my Jurassic Park side blades, and I noticed they were $10 cheaper at Marco than they were on Stern's site because Stern raised the price for everything. All their accessories. I understand, like, you're going to say the materials and all that are more expensive, but is the vinyl that you printed those things on, is that more expensive?
    63:55
    Maybe. Okay. What are they re-releasing, Bruce? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Toppers. Okay. Because everyone needs one of those. Everyone needs a Changement Ninja Turtles game to put these new toppers on. Yeah. No, they don't. Okay. I got to say, on the one at the tournament I went to, I actually hit the side ramp three times. No. Three times in four different games? Yeah. I hit it twice, including as part of a three- or four-way combo. Did you hit the center ramp?
    64:27
    The center ramp. Oh, and it said that, too. Shoot the center ramp. I can see it on the screen laughing at me. Shoot the center ramp. It's not a freaking center ramp. Well, I did have a weird situation on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where I'm at a point where it's like, how do I light a mode?
    64:45
    And it's like, shoot the ramps. And right on the screen it says, shoot right ramp to light whatever the hell it's called, episode.
    64:52
    And I'm looking at the right ramp and it's not lit. I was like, okay, it's telling me to do that. So I shoot it. And still not lit. Okay. The left ramp was lit, so I hit that. Nope. Still no episode lit. So I was confused. I don't know if the game was broken. And on Mandalorian, you know, same coder, I'm sitting at the game. I'm like, okay, how do I start a mission? So I look at the rule card, and it says, shoot ramps, delight missions. The ramps are not lit. So I shot the right ramp, and then the right ramp and the left ramp both lit. And I hit the left ramp, and then mission start lit. So I'm like, why is, maybe he has like some weird logic that he copied over from Turtles for like. It's good, clean family fun. I don't know. What have you got to lose? If you watch the six o'clock news, then you'll love Nature's Trail to Hell. Nature's Trail to Hell in 3D.
    65:50
    3D. Only one person will get that. Is it Ron? No. I have no idea what he's talking about. No, no. The new number two. Get that. The new number two. Is that a new word for shit? No. Oh. You would never call this person shit. That's a new number two. You don't know who the new number two is, Ron? I guess he doesn't. I do. It's part of the bit. We have a bit? I thought we just had one. I didn't know we were just being face factual.
    66:25
    Okay. As I was saying, if you don't like these expensive toppers. You can get a cheap one. From Jersey Jack. Only like, what, $100-something. You can get a piece of plastic. Yeah, it does nothing. No, it says cool things on it, and it lights up. It does nothing. It is weird that Jersey Jack does the most expensive games with the most expensive toys, and their whole thing is how we're the super high-end, deepest games possible. But they make like. We're the best. But they make the cheapest toppers. It's so weird. You'd think if anyone, they would have like the Black Knight topper, but they'd have two heads or something. Like they would just take it to a new level. Yeah, they could have done like two skull heads from Guns N' Roses, you know, and just mounted them up there. Yeah, and they'd turn to each other and laugh like, I guess he won't hit this shot. Or something like that. And both of them are done by Axl Rose impersonators. But different ones. Axl Rose impersonators. Why? They got Mama. Mama's on there.
    67:28
    Who's Mama? Okay, again, no one knows what you mean. Yes, I do. If you watch this show, you know who Mama is. What show? That's very obscure. He's talking about the fact. Mama from the Goonies. Yeah, Axl Rose looks like the mom from the Goonies. That he mentioned one line in an old show, and someone's supposed to remember that. Isn't the Goonies a movie? It is a movie. Yeah, it's a movie. It's a movie, Zach.
    67:51
    Believe it or not. I actually watched the Goonies. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You watched the Goonies? Yeah, I did. There's no way you would like that. It was awful. Okay. Because I'm thinking of, like, you would hate that movie. I was so confused. It's like, this is like the dumbest, most basic we've ever seen. And then, like, everyone's like, oh, they should do a Goonies game. Deepwood's going to do a Goonies game. I'm like, people like this movie? I'm confused. And this is when Zach was five. He thought it was too simple. No, I think I was, like, 10 or 11. Yeah. I don't know. They just went into a cave, and then they found something. It's actually like this. It's like two, three, and one. Mrs. Pin is not going to be happy with you. I'm sorry, Mrs. Pin. Please don't. Oh, hold on. Time out. We're going to keep recording. Mrs. Pin, I'd like two boxes of cookies this time for Allentown, because I don't want Ron getting mine.
    68:44
    Yeah, Mrs. Pin, give Bruce's cookies to me, and I'll give them to him. No! Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. Give them to me! That's a good idea. I like that. Me, me, me, Mrs. Finn.
    68:54
    I never got your first batch. No, you didn't. No, I didn't. I just assumed they were all for me. We did three batches. One for Bruce this year, one for Bruce for last year, and one for Ron to steal from Bruce. See, Bruce, I was trying to keep your weight down so you wouldn't later crush my rig, but you see, I failed. You failed, so guess what? I deserve the second batch of cookies now. No, you don't deserve it because you failed. I had to go through the heartbreak of having no cookies last year. Or two years ago. Yeah, plus we went through withdrawal during COVID, too, so that's another year of cookies that we're missing. Yes, I see. You've really ruined me, Ron. You just, I'm distraught. One piece of cookies.
    69:34
    Cookies. So let's talk about banning. Oh, God. Hold on. Let's get 420 up, man. Oh, God. No one's going to know what you're talking about, but we'll have to explain. And this actually ties into a segment I had planned to do for this episode, but this kind of speaks for itself. It's that I hear a lot of talk on these shows now how this uptick, this period of pinball, like they literally can't keep the games in stock. All these games are being made, and, you know, pinball is on the rise and all this stuff. And I know I'm always the good cop here versus the guy who hates everything. and actually we have Zach who hates everything Zach, welcome to the club I made the club no, no, no, I am the founder I am also a client no, he owns the club he's like Goldfinger, I own the club but I don't see how you can say everything is so great when, and I was going to call this segment, I was going to call it the money man because what it is because pinball is so small It's such a small hobby There are just certain people There's money men If they decide they don't want to do something anymore If something happens It just goes away You saw that with Replay FX I mean, yes, you had the Replay Foundation You had a whole board of directors Whatever But in the end it all came down to how much money Kevin Martin was comfortable with losing It got to a certain point where it's like Yeah, I don't want to take out another $400,000 loan I want to pay the stuff off and move on. And that's what happened. So you had your biggest tournament in the universe, and it's gone. Poof. And I was going to bring up stories like, you have things like Allentown. Extremely successful show, right? Yep. It was very close to going away. Yes. Yeah, I don't know how many people realize that. For years, it was, I think, the Hine family. Yes. They have their names.
    71:42
    Husband and wife. They ran. It was the Pinball Wizards Convention for years and years. And one day they decided, we don't want to do this anymore. We're done. Now, luckily, Ivan, the guy who runs it now, he was running a fall show in Allentown. So he stepped up and was like, I'll take it over. And they literally just changed the name of it to Pinfest. But, I mean, it's the same dates, same location, et cetera. Same helpers. So it could have died right there, but it didn't in this case. But there's just very few people who control.
    72:20
    Texas. Texas is like the Van Der Veens and the one other guy who I can't remember his name. I apologize. But if one day, say, they decide, like, yeah, we don't want to do this anymore, is there a succession plan? Now, in Texas, they've actually had different people run it over time. But a lot of these shows, it doesn't matter how successful it is. Allentown was a super successful show. It wasn't like they had a really bad show and they said, like, okay, we're done. Yep. I was trying to end it in a more positive note saying, you know, if there's a show you want to go to, a location, and you're thinking, like, maybe next year. I'll go next year. I just don't have time. You know, all the people, I'm sure, thought about going to Pinnberg, but, yeah, maybe next year. Do it now. I mean, you just said, though, that they're already successful. Like, us doing it doesn't really, going to them or not, doesn't actually matter that much. Well, some shows it does. For some shows. Like, if your show's good. I'm not saying it as a support thing. I'm saying if you think stuff is going to be. You're saying don't miss out. Don't miss out. Like me, who's potentially missed out on ever going to the 500 Games in Banning. Yes, which is probably the next thing we talk about. That was one of the impudences when I used to do all my walkthrough videos. every new show I would go to, every new thing I would do a full walkthrough video because in my head I'm thinking this could be the only year it happens this could go away and over time, a good number of the ones I've done videos of, they've gone away but it's kind of like my historical record of it, but I didn't want to miss out and so if there's these certain shows that you want to see, certain locations you want to go to, don't hold off on it because there's no guarantee they're going to be around tomorrow So we get to Banning So the Museum of Pinball Is in Banning, California Yeah man We'll get to the pot Bruce, it's okay Basically what happened And this is what happened very fast Well, background They have like 700 pinball machines there And a shitload of video games there And two large buildings that are connected And they would have The Arcade Expo show once a year. And they would also have where Indisc would take place, which is now what the Open, well still called Indisc, but it's one of your major tournaments. The last, I don't know, three, four years they've had Indisc there. And it's worked out very well. Extremely popular.
    74:51
    In April, this is how fast this has happened, in April we saw first an article that Jonathan Wheat, the guy who owns everything, was going to attempt to buy this building in Palm Springs that used to be a newspaper printing place. Yes, newspaper printing place. Like twice the size of the current place. Right across the street from the airport. Tons of parking. This was like going to be awesome.
    75:24
    We're all going, yeah, better, pinball, better. Me, I was like, oh, there's probably a lot of zoning. There's a lot of, like, local politics crap that probably has to happen before this could happen. And the article actually said that. So I figured, you know, that's going to take a while. Well, it didn't. Next thing you know, a couple months later, it's like, he's buying the building. That's like, wow. And you're thinking, like, it was pretty much assumed InDisc is going to be in this new building. You know, it's going to be incredible, this awesome thing. So you're going, like, this great thing is even better. Then, was it a week ago? A week and a half? They basically announced that this is the building. Is the building actually purchased? They haven't said yet. They haven't said. Well, yeah, you're right. They haven't said. So when John looked at this, John always looked at this building, they figured there was a certain amount of renovation that had to take place. Industrial machinery would have to be replaced. Yeah, and it would cost so much money and take so much time. And, okay, so they lease out the current location. They don't sell the building. They lease out the two buildings to an entity, which we just found out what the entity is today. Yeah, man.
    76:37
    And sometime, I don't know what the timing is, but they send their architect in there to look at this place, and he's like, yeah, this is going to take like 15 months and cost way more than you thought it was going to cost. It's going to take two or three months just to get the printing press out. Yeah And they're like What? So now They're coming back And saying that The Museum of Pinball Needs to either There's four options One Find a major sponsor To assist with relocating To this new building In other words Money Two Find an alternate location For the Museum of Pinball Because they've already Leased out the Old location Which they have to be out of In like two months Yeah man Three a location to store the games until the dust settles and things change, or four, sell the entire collection to a single entity who will maintain the Museum of Pimple.
    77:31
    Wait, there's one more option. There's one more option. What's the one more option? None of the above. Well, the thing is,
    77:39
    if you just look at this, you know, we don't have any information on what's going on in the background. But this just seems really dumb. Yeah. Like, they leased it out before they knew. They put all their eggs in the basket this building, leased out their old building, and like, oh, this ain't going to work. Oh, well, we're kind of screwed.
    77:59
    And we just found out it's going to be a pot place. What's the correct term? A manufacturer of pot plants.
    78:09
    Whatever. Cultivation of. Pot plants, yes. Yeah, man. So you go from it's going to look awesome to, yeah, this is. We're ready to crash and burn almost. I mean, yeah. So, within a year, your two largest publicly available collections in the U.S., even if it's not year-round, Free Play FX and this place, gone.
    78:34
    And it's just like now Indus is scrambling to figure out where the hell they're going to have the tournament.
    78:39
    Now, before, they had their tournaments usually just be in like a conference room of a hotel, I think is where they were doing it. and I'm guessing that's probably where it's going to end up. I mean, the games that were used for the tournament were Jim Belsito's, although I believe the classic games were the museum's.
    78:59
    Now, someone can correct me on that, but I thought the museum actually had those games. I think they did. So they're going to have to scramble now. So now you have a – your biggest major tournament at Pinnberg is gone. Probably your second biggest one is now scrambling to find a location to have the tournament. Yeah, not good. It's not good. I mean, there's probably no way I'm going to go now. Because, I mean, one of the reasons I went is because, you know, InDisc is awesome, and they have the room next door that has, like, you know, 700 games in it. And if they're just going to have a tournament in some hotel somewhere with just the tournament games, I'm not – that's a long trip to go for that. And the crazy thing is, the buildings they had, that was only part of the collection. That's the thing. They actually have 2,200 games in their museum of pinball. They have 780 pins and 1,420 vids.
    79:57
    Do you know anything else other than what I've stated, Bruce, Mr. Inside and Fun? No, the only thing I'm confused about besides, like, the lack of planning, it's almost like this is just an opinion. It seems like he almost wants to sell some pieces off because he keeps on bringing that point up right away. Like, oh, we're going to sell some pieces. We're going to sell some pieces. There was some false info originally that's saying that the old building was sold. No. Which it wasn't. He actually came up on Tilt Forums and said the building was not sold. We own that building along with three other buildings on the property, which I had heard when I was there that John owned multiple buildings in that complex. What you should do is just put them in storage, wait it out, maybe take two years. Well, that was the thing. And the article said the storage was too expensive because I guess they got storage units from China. They would cost like $3,500, but now they cost $12,000 and they take months to arrive. They used to take weeks to arrive. I mean, basically, storage for those games is most of the size of the building. There's ways to store them better, easier, too. I mean, I was just speechless when I... It went from like this awesome thing to shit almost instantly. and it just didn't make any sense.
    81:14
    I thought it was some kind of number crunch and he felt he had to lease the place out because they're losing money. I don't know.
    81:21
    I have no clue. I have no idea what's going on in the background. And all basically on the reliance of one dude who has a lot of money. That's the thing. There is a board. There's a curator. There's a board. But, you know, again, someone can correct me, but just from outside looking in, I see this as another replay effect situation where, yes, there might be a board, there might be other people there. But the one guy controls it all. Yeah, he used this they when he talks about, like, we own the buildings. But at least when I was there and talked to people there, they always spoke like he owned everything. Or like he was basically renting the building to the committee very cheaply or freely. Yeah, who knows what Indus was paying to be there and now what they're going to have to pay in wherever location they're trying to find. It's a very fluid situation. Did you see how much they're charging for a day pass to the museum, which is open all year round? It doesn't open on certain days. Mostly. They said like 320 days, I think they said. I didn't know it was open now. Yeah, I read articles saying it wasn't open, and I read articles saying, yeah, the one article said it was like, what, $120? $120 a day. A day.
    82:36
    Now, if you go to the Rochester Co-op, sure, you won't have 700 games, but you will only pay how much, Bruce?
    82:44
    $20 a day. And where is this co-op if I would like to visit? 349 West Commercial Street in beautiful East Rochester, New York. There you go. Park in the back. Take the 349-3 entrance. Go up the stairs, make a right, and keep going down the hallway to the end. until you hear the pinball. Until you hear the pinball. And you walk past the rock place.
    83:12
    That's all I have on that. So if there's any shows you're thinking to go to and think, oh, I'll wait until next year, I wouldn't. I would go while you can. It makes me curious how many other large shows are actually in the situation where basically it's relying on one person. One person, yeah. Or it could be just a couple people. Are there any that aren't at all in the situation? Alternate models for how to run these things. Yes. Like, do you have, basically, do you have a succession plan? I don't have a succession plan, but, like, if it's actually 10 people's money equally put in, you know, like, you can't even have that problem because 10 people aren't going to all retire at once. Yeah, I mean, like, well, Bruce, the Rochester show, wasn't that Mr. Jones? Yes, it was mostly Mr. Jones, but he did have a lot of help from five or six people with games and other things like that. It's a lot easier to recover with it, but he was the driving force. He was the driving force, and when he didn't want to do it anymore, that was it. Yep, yep, done. Single point of failure. That's kind of my argument. Like, a lot of these things, I think, are single point of failure. And don't tell me, like, everything's all hunky-dory and a super healthy hobby when you have a lot of single point of failures. You wouldn't see this, like, in the video game world or in other big shows. You're not going to have, like, one dude decides, like, you know, I'm not going to do this anymore, and the show ends. You have corporations doing this shit. Don't forget, COVID killed some of these shows. COVID killed, but I mean, if you looked at replay FX's financials, it was not sustainable without some kind of, I mean, they were hurting for money when they were still at Papa. People don't remember. They changed the format. They went from the card format to the pump and dump to try to get more money. If you calculated the years they were doing the card format, they would give away like five-figure prize money. And if you did the math, it's like they weren't raising five figures. That money was coming from somewhere, and I know who it was coming from. No, we all know who it was coming from. So there you go. But you think about it with this, does Expo make money? I think Expo makes money. I definitely think they make money. But the thing is if Robert decides he doesn want to do it that it I got to assume most shows where someone rents a location and people bring their own games are making money or hopefully not at least losing much money Yeah. You can't tell me Expo makes money. There's no way Texas ain't making money. It's the biggest show that the hotel even has, right? Yes. But, again, even though they're making money, I'm not saying they're making tons of money or anything. Yeah, they're not making money. You know, I don't think technically you're running off of majority volunteer labor. Yes, yes. In terms of the games, and also most of the people helping out, like Fantastic or something, they're volunteers. They're like all the old ladies running the ticket booth at FinFest. I know they're making – Yeah, I think they're family, aren't they? You would probably know that. Yeah, I thought they were family members of Iris. Yeah.
    86:01
    I think even with the manufacturers, I don't think the games make as much money as people think they make. I don't think they sell as many of them as people think they sell. When Guns N' Roses came out, and, you know, J.R.J. Jack has the 5,000 limit on their LEs because they'll never reach it. And people were saying, like, oh, they might get close to the 5,000 on this one. No. They're not even remotely close. Although, weirdly, the website says that the standard edition is sold out. It's been because they told it. They said it was discontinued. Yeah, because they sold so little of them, they said, why bother? Yeah. They discontinued it. They are the ones that chose to discontinue it. What else do I have on here?
    86:44
    Oh, I visited the pastime pinball facility in Vermont. We knew this. We found this out way before you even told us. Yeah, because I learned that pinball is a very, very small, small knit group here. Because I walk in and, well, first, my birthday last year, I went to Rock Fantasy to try Turtles. Yeah. Yes, yes, Mr. Koehler. When I walk in, I see Mike from Albany. He's in my league. He's there. Like, hi, Ron. What the? So you decided to come here the same day as me. It's like, wow, it's a small pinball world. Well, I go to pastime pinball this past Friday. I walk through the door after they open. Who's standing there? Mike is standing there. He's like, Ron, what are you doing here? It's like, oh, my God, this is a very small pinball world.
    87:45
    Then, a couple hours in, I have two members of the Rochester Pinball Co-op walk in. Look at me, Ron. You know, it's a small pinball world.
    87:59
    It's a small pinball world after all. It is. I like the place. I thought it was a little bigger. to be honest, from the pictures. They photographed it very well. I give them credit there. Someone should give lessons on how to photograph. Is it still spacious?
    88:23
    It was not cramped. The main thing that struck me about those pictures is, wow, those games are arranged in very weird ways. Kind of, yeah. They're spaced around. They have to because of the way it's designed. Yeah, it's a weird shape building in general. The games were extremely clean I'll say that That struck me Playing the white water, I walk up to it Damn, I can't see any dirt at all They had Super bands on everything That's terrible Super bands on the flippers But I guess They were easier for the operator So a titan's foot So it was regular rubber Well, not really Superman just kind of wipe off and they're done. At least that's what I was told. I just pull off and put a number on. That's really simple, too. Yeah, you pull off your rubbers all the time, Bruce. If I do, I turn them inside out.
    89:19
    So, yeah, they had, it was mostly like your Williams classics, a ton of them. Oh, yeah, almost every Williams classic. You have your No Fear. And they had an Oktoberfest for some reason. They did. Then I played the dialed-in next to it and I felt way better. It had a whole EM row of wedge heads. early solid states. Interesting, they did not have any Gottlieb electronic ones. No, because you can't keep them running. They suck. None of them. It's just like, oh, you know. Yeah, I know they had no classic sterns either. No, they did not. Very, just poor.
    89:54
    Upstairs, they have a few like EM style games. They have a puck ski ball, which I had never seen before. Yes. You use a puck instead of the ball. I'm thinking, man, didn't they worry about kids hitting each other with these things years ago. And a conveyor belt that brings it back to you. Yeah, but you don't see it, though. I know, but that's the cool thing about it. Yeah, and it's very... It's just like a regular skee-ball, except with a puck. It's pretty cool. And a few shooter games. And they sell some food there. Like, the basic stuff, like popcorn.
    90:26
    It was nice. It's a short drive for me. It's under, like, a buck thirty. It's probably the closest place to me, yeah.
    90:35
    So, yeah, I'll have to check it out when When I was there, one of the guys working there asked me if I wanted to run a league.
    90:41
    I'm like, I live an hour and a half away. But then in our Facebook page, our local Facebook page, Mike, after I mentioned Mike, he's there. He's like, any interest in having a league at pastime pinball? And I'm thinking to myself, even if I was psycho, it would take me, like, I'm an hour 30. But if I was leaving from work because they wanted to do it on Thursday, I'm like two hours away. So when are you starting? Like, what time does the leak start? How long does it go? And then I've got to drive home and work Friday. There's just no way. Zach, what are you telling me? He's just nutty and just do it anyway. No. It's only eight weeks, Ron. Come on. Exactly. Do you have something better to do? Did they say what time it supposedly starts? I don't know. They have not said yet. Yeah. I mean, if you started any earlier than 7, I couldn't do it. And even at 7, I'd be hauling ass just to make it there and try it against traffic. Is there really traffic in New Hampshire? Is there? It's not in New Hampshire. It's in Vermont. Yeah, is there really traffic in Vermont? No, but there is in my area until it gets past a certain point. I agree. Yeah, you're... I got to say, driving through Vermont was the worst traffic I ever had, not like in terms of volume, but in terms of... Slow people. It's an anger. Slow people. Okay. The speed limit's 45, and there are people doing 30 in front of you. there's either people doing 30 in front of me up a hill or people doing 70 up the hill. Yeah. And I'm sitting here doing a bit over speed limit, like, there's no good answers.
    92:13
    One more event I forgot about on the same day as the District Day 2 tournament, August 7th, is the Rock Fantasy Summer Open. Yeah! And kudos to them actually having it during the summer, because that's usually an ongoing joke. Usually the summer open is, like, in September, and then they'll have the winter open, it'll be in the spring and things like that. Yep. I mean, let's not forget, we mentioned it, but PinFest last weekend of July. Oh, yeah, PinFest. Yes, last weekend in July. That is correct. They got boned. Yeah, they missed out by like two days on having a circuit event. Although I guess there's no circuit events this year anyway. But yeah. And they'll have a tournament of some type, presumably. Yep. And is that the first? It's not the first pinball show. Is it the biggest show so far? post-COVID that has occurred? I would say so. I think so. And then we have the Saratoga show. Yes. Second week of August. Yep. 14th. Not related to the previous Saratoga show. New person, new location. Since, again, single person, Adam, who was running the show for the previous few years and decided that he was doing it. Yeah, and it's in a mall, which is where the last Rochester show was in, which that worries me. I'm hoping malls aren't where shows go to die, but it's going It'll be August 13th and 14th. I'm bringing a game. Zach's probably bringing multiple games. Probably, yeah. Please come and play Alien Star, because everyone loves Alien Star. You know what you're bringing yet? Nope. Whatever is easiest at hand at that time, I have no idea. I'm moving multiple games around between then and now. I'm picking up multiple games between then and now. Fixing games. Who knows? All right. Well, let's see. What else do I have in here? I had a question for you guys, and actually for our listeners.
    94:08
    Since I've been watching a lot of pinball tournament streams, especially a lot of them at District 82, so they're all from Wisconsin, so they all got that, you know, Wisconsin accent. A? No, A. It's not Canadian. It's like Canadian. It's like pseudo-Canadian. Pseudo-Canadian. It's been filtered across the border. It has been. They all say multi-ball I always say multi-ball Multi Is it multi-ball or multi-ball? I mean we should just go ask Steve Because he came up with the term I assume Steve Ritchie actually yeah But I was thinking about this Thinking of what do the games call them The actual pinball machines themselves Tryball How do they No Not that easy Well okay Okay Sega Batman Forever multiball, multiball, multiball it says multiball so I was trying to think specifically almost all the games I can think of call it multiball but I was able to think of at least one game that calls it multiball and that's Indy 500 remember? he's from the Midwest well he has the one line that'll be a guaranteed multiball he's got a southern accent so can you guys think of any other games that actually call it multi-ball? I wonder about Big Buck Hunter.
    95:36
    Buck Hunter. Big Buck Hunter, bro! Yeah, it's got the southern accent. I can picture it saying, duck multi-ball is lit. Yeah, okay, so yeah, listeners, please email us at slamtillpodcasts at gmail.com for any games you can think of that actually call it multi-ball using the I. Multi-ball. I can check that off scintillating I know but it's one of those things I notice my father's Ron everyday well yeah it does because that's not what the game like attack from Mars with all it's great call outs multi-ball you know total annihilation I'm going to be Weehee I think no I'm going tri-ball will you stop with the tri-ball It's nothing to do with anything. That's the way it should be, though. Okay, whatever. Wow, that was a lot of subjects to go through. Holy cow, I'm winded. And we still have a ball bag to go through.
    96:40
    Is it big? It's big, and I don't think we're getting to any, we're not getting to any trivia. Sorry. Although some people are probably, some people are probably cheering right now. Yes, they are. It's like, oh, God, not that trivia again. Do your happy dance, Ron. Do your happy dance.
    96:56
    All right. Ready? Ready. Okay. We got, this is from Jeff. Hi, Jeff. Jeff says, hey there. Thanks for the content. Oh, wait, before I start this. Bruce, I'm reading from the ball bag.
    97:14
    Okay. Thanks. No. Okay. Hey there. Thanks for the content. I have a few things today that may or may not interest you. It's all about the timing. dimpling and clear coat issues. So much discussion on this topic, I have some education regarding protective coatings and linings. Something that I've heard no one talk about is the DFT.
    97:37
    Do you know what that means, Bruce? DFT? No. Dry film thickness of the clear coat. This is usually measured in mils, M-I-Ls. Stuff like chipping usually occurs when a protective coating is applied too thick. If I were to guess, the clear coat put on today is much thicker. It definitely is. This will create chipping and possibly the appearance of dimpling. I was thinking it was possible the damage was occurring because it has not had time to cure. I recently discovered that this is not the case, as a friend of mine recently bought a Stranger Things new in box. This game was in the box for over a year, and once it was played, it dimpled immediately.
    98:16
    Rochester Pinball Collective. My wife and I are from Canada, eh? Eh? See, he said eh. That means that's how they talk. We'd love to make the trip to Rochester to play at the Strong, the Playhouse, and the Silver Ball Saloon. With hearing about the pinball collective happening, we are so happy to keep returning to Rochester. We ever get out of lockdown here? Doubt it.
    98:36
    Wow. It's the truth. No Canadians allowed. We love Canadians. Yay. Thanks. Your podcast has provided me with lots of enjoyment during a time where enjoyment is needed. Thank you. You may want to skip my whole section about this. the shows and stuff. Well, it's positive. I was saying, make sure you go out to as many shows, because they might not be around. You see how negative Ron is, guys? And you see how positive I have been lately? Exactly. So thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff.
    99:07
    That's the Archive folder. Archive. Archived. Ocho. It's the Ocho folder. The Ocho? ESPN Ocho? You got it, baby. Wasn't pinball going to be on that at some point? What happened with that? Yeah, that failed. We were too boring. Well, that was pulled. Like, they filmed a segment, but then they didn't. They actually were. I think Stern said, don't use it. Okay, this is from Greg. Hi, Greg. He's talking moments in pinball. I think he takes issues with some of my stuff here. Hi, fellas. Enjoyed your chat with Zach last episode. Not this Zach, but another Zach. You talked about moments in pinball versus just building a score. Instead, there were no moments in solid state machines. Not entirely true. For example, not doubting all the targets on Sinbad, except for that elusive 2x target. That's all that stands between you having a lousy ball and a monster 5x bonus collect target reset and go again. This is some of the greatest tension and payoff in pinball. And boy, does everyone standing around have a good laugh at you missing that 2x target over and over. Going back in time to the late 70s and early 80s, there were no greater moments in pinball than seeing those red specials light up at the promise of free games. That horseshoe on Space Invaders with unlimited specials was a massive payday if you were willing to take the risk. Eight-ball deluxe and specials on the left orbit, the in-lane drops and the target bank. The aforementioned spin bad, the four red targets down would light specs, as we call them in Australia for a free game. Specs? Specs. You got a specs that night. This is a big deal when you're 12 years old and only get 40 cents pocket money per week, the equivalent of two quarters in the U.S. Wow. I feel sorry for those who came to pinball in the 90s or later. Seeing those red specs light up, racking three, four, or five credits in a single game was incredibly exciting times. I try and replicate some of that excitement when I run tournaments by having a trophy for the most number of specials collected.
    101:08
    So I must disagree. My biggest moments in pinball have been on solid states, and, of course, Lyman's amazing Horde Wizard Mode on The Walking Dead. Keep up the good work, and don't listen to Zach, the other Zach. You are not one of the best pinball podcasts. You are the best by order of magnitude. Woo-hoo! Thank you. Thank you very much. Woo-hoo! Now, I haven't listened to the previous episode, but I'm going to assume that Greg was right, first of all, because he sounds right. But also, I feel like it's one of the, like, I feel like especially, like, Steve Ritchie and Williams began adding the modern concept of the pinball moment back in the early South State days, you're like, Firepower, you know, like starting Multiball and doing all that light show and stuff. They invented the flasher, the light show and everything. Yep. Those are some big pinball moments. Yeah, I don't know how I forgot Firepower. Firepower. Williams definitely had it going on when it came to the moments compared to the other companies. I feel like they invented it and they were the only people who understood the moment in that form. Yeah, most of the other games, like, Multiball just starts. Like, there's no fanfare. There's nothing. In Firepower, the entire game stops. We make the digits dance around. We do a light show. We do a freaking countdown. So you're like, holy shit. Something cool's gonna happen. Yeah, Blackout's turning off the playfield and, like, lighting up the sword, you know, and... It doesn't even have to be multi-ball. Just look at Blackout. Blackout.
    102:31
    Like, holy shit, I broke the game. Blackout. John Coston? Oh, the doctor. The doctor. Dr. John. He fitted several 3D printed shims to put under the flipper base plate, Matt, on his Rick and Morty. So now the flipper doesn't stick up way too far. So that's the other thing. He did this because I think he was waiting for the bushings. Which I got this week. So what happened, though? They used the Williams bushings, and now they're too big? Did their plate fields get thinner? I am so confused with that. Yeah, I'm so confused. I don't understand. They're using the Williams base plates and the Williams flipper bushings, and they worked on all their other games. All of a sudden, Rick and Morty is too tall. So your play field's got to be thinner, right? It has to be. Or they aren't actually using the base plate. Mm-hmm. Maybe they may not.
    103:22
    They look the same to me. They look the same. I was under Bruce's Rick and Morty, but. Yep, they look exactly the same.
    103:30
    Last one here from Glenn. Hi, Glenn. This was a question. So your thinking caps on. Quick question, fellas. Should a five-ball game of Joker poker start with aces and end with tens?
    103:45
    More points generally on tens since you can get the 5X bonus on one shot and could make comebacks at the end. I have found it's really hard to make a comeback in tournaments if you are down 100K on ball five.
    103:56
    I can agree with that. Zach? I mean, I can agree with it, truly. Gameplay-wise, I agree with it. Thematically, it doesn't make any sense. No, I agree with that, too. You would have had to rearrange all the targets so that there's one ace target in the corner and four 10s up top. But, like, gameplay-wise, there's a point of, like, you tend to get the big bonus early on. Yes, and then you're way ahead. There's no way to count up. I would have rather it was, like, 2x bonus on ball one and then 3x bonus on ball two, counting up. Yeah. So the five targets for aces gives you 5x multiplier versus the lower multiplier, the earlier numbers. Okay. I'll agree with Zach because he's always right.
    104:38
    Okay, that's all I got on my list. I have one more thing I just sent you. One more thing you just sent me. On the chat. Oh, my God, that's disgusting. Oh, no. Me and Zach are millionaires almost now. Oh, God, yeah, I saw this. Would you or would you not buy this, boys and girls? This is on Pinside from user CoolWHS. This price is not cool. That's good for me in fact. Pinstar Gamitron.
    105:08
    I bought this a few years ago as a project, and I haven't gotten around to it. So it's got a strikes and spares cabinet, and it's basically the Gamitron kit. Missing parts. Missing parts is a project. How much would you pay for that, Bruce? Me? The way he looks at it right now, $250 max. You're going to have a problem because he's asking for $9,000.
    105:36
    And it doesn't work. It's all in pieces. So I'm good. Man, Zach, we could sell ours for $15,000 each. Yeah, man, somebody's like, I'll sell mine for $8,999. Fully working it. But I can't. Just based on half of it. Of course. So one of the replies is from the guy running the aforementioned Saratoga show, and he mentions Zach in there. Yes, he does. Zach and some others have brought them recently, and I'm fairly sure in no way in hell they pay $9,000.
    106:05
    He's right. That's true. Yeah, that is nutty. There's no way that's $9,000. Well, he's saying that it's the first Gamitron ever listed on Pinsight. And he's going by, what, Viper, Iron Maiden, and Dragon Fist, or $5,000-plus game. Which is fair reasoning, I've got to say. Like, even if they were all as complete as those Vipers and everything else were. No, but the second piece were $5,000 projects, right? No, they were $3,600. Of course, there was the Sonic GammaCon. It looks like it sold for $3,800. Which has a much cooler back glass. Wow, that back glass is so cool. Oh, that is a killer back glass. The Sonic that I almost got, I think I would have had it for around $2,000. if I'd been willing to pay it, and I passed on it, regretfully. I wish I'd done that, but it was a Project 2, but pretty much complete. Okay, so we would not buy that particular one. No, it would just be $250, $300 tops. You know the back glass? The back glass is not easy to find at all. There's no displays in this thing. There's no CPU, which you have to jump into all the fun stuff with. No driver board. I don't even see a transformer in this thing. There's no transformer either. No Optimus Prime? No Megatron? No Megatron.
    107:27
    That's pretty sad when there's nothing in this fucking game and he wants $9,000. Wouldn't that be funny if you owned a Stern Transformer? Transformers, and it didn't work because it was missing the Transformer?
    107:39
    Like an ox-eye moron. That sounded better to me at the time. Okay. It did, but it was bad. Oh. We should do a giveaway for just the Transformers from a Stern Transformers. There you go. alright anything else guys? this has been a packed episode this will be a shitty edit it will be a shitty edit I'm always happy me too, I'm great you've been so negative lately, Ron I just, you know, I'm getting a little frustrated here I know, I promise I will be back to my normal positive all games are great all games have good things about them except Thunderbirds I'll be a usual positive self next episode good so this has been episode 169 the Slamtail Podcast you can reach us 169 you really should have done something more special for that well guess what I have something to say I got something to say guess what's coming up next month Ron July 4th 5 years I thought our anniversary was in June was it June or July let me look it up right now let me go to the www.slamtiltpodcast.com That's where you should go for all things Slam Tilt Podcast. It has all our links in the upper right-hand corner. Again, our email address is slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. I'm going there right now. Hey, look. There's all these links in the upper right. Look, even a link to our email. It's incredible. Look, I can scroll through every single episode we've ever done. It'll tell me the actual date it was released. Hello World was released July 14th, 2016. So who was right again? Whatever.
    109:28
    You're so great, Bruce. I bow down. I am. I know. So you guys going to record your next episode on July 14th? We should. And second is, if anyone wants to record an intro or saying hi to us or, you know, that kind of stuff, send it to slantillpodcast at gmail.com. and Ron will be happy to edit it in. Yeah, I'll be happy to edit it in. So, yeah, it'll be our, I'm not going to say fifth anniversary because that's wrong. It'll be our fifth. Five years. And if I get it out. It should be our fourth anniversary. Yeah, if I get it out fast enough, I can actually get it out on July 14th, assuming we record on the 11th, our usual date. Yep, yep. That would be pretty cool, yeah. Five years with this This wonderful person How did you hear that guys I think it's been nice knowing you too man See the negativity I deal with Zach It's really upsetting He's going to cry Oh my gosh I'm going to eat a half gallon of ice cream now guys Oh No ELO is incredible Bruce They're the greatest ever No I got guess what I got good ice cream You'd like it Bittersweet symphony wait is that not a pun it's just the name of the song no no that's the ice cream yeah but that's the song bittersweet symphony but it's coffee ice cream with dark chocolate streaks in it yeah but then the ice cream company got sued by the Rolling Stones and they have to give all the profits to them every time cool I'll still eat it so this has been the Slam Filled Podcast thanks everybody hi Robert Byers of Top Rope hi Steve Hi Steve, final bonus Hi Zach Hi other Zach, whoever you are Pinball Princess Jeff and Marty I'm still waiting to be on some of these other podcasts we were gracious enough to get on the final round, that was very nice of the boys to put us on that we've had some other people on our podcast and they need to reciprocate us where's my invite to the podcast? Bruce keeps going and cheating on us but I'm still here. I'm the second or third best guest they ever had on the one show. I need more podcasts. So, Raymond Davidson, where is my do or die? You were in a bunch of tournaments, and I'm waiting for the summary. What's going on? Fail. All right. Do or die is the best podcast that's not slam-tilt. Sure. It's definitely the best tournament because you can hear what the best – well, the former number one player in the world. Yes. The new number one player is Eric Stone, so congratulations, Eric Stone. Congratulations, Eric Stone. They should do a podcast together. One and two? Call it one and two? A number one and a number two?
    112:19
    And then when they're playing on the second level, it's like an upper decker. Okay. Bruce, do you have a name before I say it? I have a name. Okay. I'm ready. Okay. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce.
    112:34
    Goodbye, Ed Owens. Oh my mind, oh my mind Can you move me, can you fly Oh my mind, oh my mind We can go there if you try Oh my mind, oh my mind We can be alive
    113:07
    Oh my. Sound test. Hello.