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The Pinball Show Ep 121 Part 1: James Bond 60th - License To Shill Or Dr. Hell No

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·55m 7s·analyzed·Jan 17, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

James Bond 60th LE pricing and marketing controversy spark discussion on value, criticism, and community dynamics.

Summary

Zach Manning and Dennis Nordman analyze Stern Pinball's James Bond 60th Anniversary Limited Edition ($19,999), designed by Keith Elwin with only 500 units globally. The episode covers controversial pricing and marketing practices (exclusive toppers later sold as standard accessories), dealer experiences with customer cancellations post-reveal, and broader industry trends including Stern's CEO transition, competitor expansion plans, and market consolidation concerns. The hosts emphasize that criticism of pricing is valid but distinct from attacking buyers.

Key Claims

  • James Bond 60th Anniversary LE limited to 500 units globally, priced at $19,999 USD

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discuss official Stern pricing; Zach confirms he sold direct at this price as a dealer

  • Stern sold James Bond 60th Anniversary units directly on their website at $19,999, then removed pricing after sellout

    high confidence · Zach explains dealer experience: 'Stern Pinball did set a price because even though they sold maybe a handful direct on their store, they listed them at $19,999 plus shipping and tax'

  • Exclusive 007 toppers originally marketed as exclusive to 60th Anniversary LE are now being sold as standard accessories

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's segment: 'the same supposed exclusive or limited edition James Bond toppers, which debuted on the very limited edition 60th Anniversary James Bond machines, are now being sold as a standard accessory to everyone'

  • Five customers dropped out of Bond 60th LE orders after Zach requested immediate deposit/payment

    high confidence · Zach recounts: 'So that next day, I had five people drop out' due to payment demand before production bill arrival

  • Gary Stern is retiring as CEO; Seth Davis (ex-Disney executive) taking over as Stern Pinball president

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's news segment: 'Gary Stern is retiring as CEO of Stern Pinball and fully handing over the reins to ex-Disney executive and current Stern Pinball president Seth Davis'

  • Spooky Pinball beginning production run of Scooby-Doo with Scott Innes added as voice actor

    high confidence · Craig Bobby segment announces Spooky opening Scooby-Doo production and hiring Scott Innes for villain voices

  • Pinball Brothers partnering with Pedretti Gaming to form Euro Pinball Corp for increased manufacturing capacity

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports partnership aims 'to provide a superior platform for large-scale manufacturing' and 'run production of multiple games in parallel'

  • Zach's impressions: Bond 60th Anniversary looks fun but is ugly and overpriced

Notable Quotes

  • “Your thoughts were that you think the game looks fun, but it's ugly and it's overpriced.”

    Dennis Nordman @ ~13:20 — Distills Zach's core criticism of the Bond 60th Anniversary into concise summary; sets tone for episode analysis

  • “They're embarrassed of their price. That's why they turned it off.”

    Zach Manning (referencing community conspiracy theory) @ ~18:00 — Illustrates community skepticism about Stern's marketing transparency and pricing practices

  • “So that next day, I had five people drop out.”

    Zach Manning @ ~21:30 — Reveals dealer experience with post-reveal customer cancellations, indicating significant price sensitivity and decision volatility

  • “If you think it's a bad deal say why you think it's a bad deal. But beyond that, if someone else still loves it and thinks the price is reasonable, it's like okay well they made their decision just be informed.”

    Dennis Nordman @ ~34:00 — Articulates distinction between legitimate criticism and personal attacks; addresses toxic community dynamics around purchasing decisions

  • “It affects people's moods. It affects people's feeling of belonging to a community.”

    Zach Manning @ ~33:30 — Highlights real psychological impact of toxic commentary on community members considering expensive purchases

  • “What do you do if you're the industry leader by a country model, can't keep up with production, and can't keep raising prices fast enough to slow the whole thing down?”

    Craig Bobby @ ~10:30 — Frames Stern's market dominance and capacity constraints as fundamental business challenge driving price increases

  • “It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if at some point Stern and the other current owners of Stern Pinball packaged the whole thing up and sell to the highest bidder for a bazillion dollars.”

    Craig Bobby @ ~11:15 — Speculation on potential acquisition scenario given CEO transition and market consolidation trends

Entities

Keith ElwinpersonJames Bond 60th Anniversary Limited EditiongameStern PinballcompanyZach ManningpersonDennis NordmanpersonCraig BobbypersonGeorge GomezpersonGary Sternperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern reducing number of cornerstone titles per year while expanding facilities and raising prices; maintaining market dominance through scarcity and pricing power

    high · Craig Bobby: 'they're going to reduce the number of cornerstone titles they'll produce in one year, expand their production facilities, and you guessed it, raise prices yet again'

  • ?

    community_signal: Heated community debate over Bond 60th Anniversary with some attacking purchasers as 'idiots' and 'the problem with the industry'; hosts condemn this toxicity while defending legitimate criticism

    high · Zach: 'people think about it and then you've got other people in their ear you're an idiot if you buy this game...they just they don't want to feel like you know they're making a mistake'

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts distinguish between fair criticism of games and toxic personal attacks on buyers; advocate for informed decision-making without shaming

    high · Dennis: 'If you think it's a bad deal say why you think it's a bad deal. But beyond that, if someone else still loves it...just be informed.' Zach: criticism affects 'people's moods' and 'feeling of belonging to a community'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Multiple competitors announcing capacity increases and multi-game pipelines: Spooky (Scooby-Doo), Pinball Brothers (Euro Pinball Corp partnership), American Pinball (Galactic Tank Force), Haggis (Fathom/Centaur)

    high · Craig Bobby's segment detailing 2023 production plans across Spooky, Pinball Brothers (Euro Pinball Corp), American Pinball, Haggis, Jersey Jack

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.165

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:12
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the most pinball-y of all podcasts, Dennis and I break down Elwynn's 60th anniversary James Bond pinball game with a nice analysis of how a product like this enters into the market. Then we argue about it. Then we consider other viewpoints and analyses. You know, like the best media creators do. We also give our first impressions of the game. Our thoughts regarding the now controversial and trending exclusive 007 topper. Craig Bobby's bold predictions for Stern. Spooky Pinball's expansion. Competitive Pinball. Pinball awards are hard. Lazy media screaming, Cry, cry, cry. A new evolution of Pinball Trolls. Pinball market trends and poor Flippy. Damn, even I'm looking forward to hearing this.
1:07
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show.
1:19
It's pinball with personality. Can't stop addicted to the shindig Listener, what the hell is going on? Thanks for clicking play and tuning back in to the Pinball Show. I'm Zach Manning alongside one of the greatest, most spectacular people in all of pinball. He goes by The Creasel. His name is Dennis. How in the hell are you, my friend? Well, I'm doing pretty good, Zach, and thanks for that really kind open. I hear I'm really big in Canada.
1:57
You're huge everywhere, man. No, I don't know about that. Do you get spotted on the streets now at pinball tournaments? Do people give you a hard time, good times ever, bad times? Yeah. Well, I'm sure I've shared this before. I thought I shared it on this show, but maybe not. I do remember when you were at TPF. This was back when we did the Twip podcast. I was walking down the hallway to the bar, and some guy, I didn't even see who it was, just yelled out, Hey, Dennis, pinball market trends! Buy, buy, buy! It's like the most toxic thing ever brought up to me. Numbers are so long, Dennis!

high confidence · Dennis asks: 'Your thoughts were that you think the game looks fun, but it's ugly and it's overpriced. Is that correct?' Zach responds: 'That's actually a great summary'

  • Keith Elwin designed Bond 60th Anniversary; George Gomez designed earlier Cornerstone Bond edition

    high confidence · Zach explains two designs: 'a cornerstone designed by George Gomez, themed around Sean Connery, pro premium LE. Later on, they had an even more exclusive super LE that was the 60th anniversary that was Keith Elwin designed'

  • Stern is reducing number of cornerstone titles per year, expanding facilities, and raising prices further

    high confidence · Craig Bobby: 'they're going to reduce the number of cornerstone titles they'll produce in one year, expand their production facilities, and you guessed it, raise prices yet again'

  • “Drainy but fair. I think that's you.”

    Zach Manning @ ~35:45 — Uses Keith Elwin's description of Bond game to characterize Dennis's critique style; normalizes blunt but fair criticism

  • “Dealers are not allowed to list a price. We have to list a call for pricing.”

    Zach Manning @ ~16:45 — Exposes structural dealer constraint limiting price transparency; indicates Stern maintains control over public pricing narrative

  • “Some other dealers are going to be overly concerned. Maybe they're scared that they're not going to get $20,000. They just clearance them off.”

    Zach Manning @ ~20:30 — Shows dealer diversity in pricing strategy and risk tolerance; indicates secondary market uncertainty despite MSRP anchor

    • Seth Davisperson
    Scott Innesperson
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Pinball Brotherscompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    Lyman Sheetsperson
    Triple Drain Pinball Podcastorganization
    Travis Murrayperson
    The Pinball Showorganization

    design_philosophy: Bond 60th Anniversary criticized as visually unappealing despite functional gameplay; aesthetic concerns raised by design-focused host

    high · Zach's summary: game 'looks fun, but it's ugly'; Dennis describes it as 'drainy but fair' per Keith Elwin's characterization

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Bond 60th Anniversary represents all six Bond film eras; licensing scope appears comprehensive

    high · Zach: 'It's themed around all six different Bond eras of all the films'

  • $

    market_signal: High-dollar LE customer volatility: five Bond 60th orders canceled after payment demand; indicates price sensitivity and decision uncertainty among affluent buyers

    high · Zach: 'So that next day, I had five people drop out...the rest of the week, it was that. Somebody called me, hey, I want one...Three days go by...I don't want it anymore'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern marketed exclusive 007 toppers as exclusive/limited to 60th Anniversary LE, then sold same toppers as standard accessories; called 'false promises' and 'misdirection'

    high · Craig Bobby: 'supposed exclusive or limited edition James Bond toppers, which debuted on the very limited edition 60th Anniversary James Bond machines, are now being sold as a standard accessory to everyone'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Gary Stern retiring as CEO; ex-Disney executive Seth Davis assuming presidency; potential strategic shift signaled

    high · Craig Bobby reports transition and speculates: 'you don't hire a new CEO like Seth Davis and expect the status quo. No, no. Changes are coming, people, over at Stern Pinball'

  • $

    market_signal: James Bond 60th Anniversary priced at $19,999; hosts and community view as excessive despite acknowledgment of fun gameplay

    high · Zach's core critique: 'looks fun, but it's ugly and it's overpriced.' Customer cancellations post-reveal citing price concerns; Craig Bobby notes 'even JJPCE owners think they got the deal of the century' in comparison

  • ?

    product_strategy: Two distinct Bond designs (Gomez Cornerstone with Sean Connery theme vs. Elwin 60th Anniversary with all Bond eras); 500-unit limit on Elwin version creates artificial scarcity

    high · Zach: 'a cornerstone designed by George Gomez, themed around Sean Connery, pro premium LE. Later on, they had an even more exclusive super LE...Keith Elwin designed. Only one model of this design. That's it. Only 500 units globally'

  • ?

    business_signal: Community speculation that Stern may package company for acquisition given CEO transition and market consolidation trends

    medium · Craig Bobby speculates: 'It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if at some point Stern and the other current owners packaged the whole thing up and sell to the highest bidder for a bazillion dollars...or to the billionaire owner of JJP'

    • 2:36
    I think I yelled back a profanity. I don't know. I think we've had an impact, both positive and negative. Maybe mostly negative. An impact on the industry here. The whole industry? I think so. We've got, oh, people hate when this is true, but we have some people that we acquaintance as friends in the industry that create some of these things. Some of our quips have become very popularized over the years, many of which, like, there's assholes out there that use our quips against me, you know, bye-bye-bye and stuff like that. So, yeah, I love it. Well, Zach, I think, what's that saying that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery? Oh, they do say that. I'd like to see somebody try to give up. Yeah, whoever they are. I've heard they say it, though. Oh, man. I'm loving life right now. This is a great time of the year. This is a super busy time of the year. I haven't had a cigarette. I'm dying inside. But to you all, I'm alive. I'm well. I'm behind the microphone. And I've been doing a lot of pinball stuff this last week. What about you, Dennis? Not so much. Work-wise, January, very, very rough month for me. So I actually did play a little bit of pinball. I played some Sinbad because I needed to be short ball time. So I couldn't be going on a Star Trek adventure or anything. So, yeah, I've done a little bit of that. And, of course, we're going to talk about it a little bit later in the episode. We've been gearing up for something for the end of the month. And that took up a good little chunk of time, a little team effort, though. And it went really smooth. So I'm pleased about that. But as I noted, we'll be getting to that in a little while. How's your back? Are you feeling an improvement? You know what? Yes.
    4:12
    No pain. I'm in no pain. That's good. I'm just waiting for the moment that I still do something stupid and it's done. It's going to happen. No. Do it. I don't know. Don't do it. Honestly. My Palpatine came out. I just couldn't help it. Let the back pain flow. Let the pain flow through you. You know what? At times I would become Darth Vader if it meant I had a good back. I am the epidural. I am the spinal fusion.
    4:49
    Speaking of spinal tap. That's right. Oh, shit. It's just frustrating because I can't, I'm not allowed to do stuff. So I have to ask for help. And you know, Dennis, my best friends out there know that I hate asking for anything from people. I hate it. I hate asking for help. I hate asking for things. I'm the type of person that if I can't do it myself, I just won't do it. I just hate asking for help. So I've been having to ask a lot of help because, yeah. So that sucks to the core. It really sucks. But people like to help in part because it makes them feel good and in part because they can use that later and lord it over you. Exactly. So it's like win-win, really. And I overcompensate. How can I help you, Zach? What critical thing would you like from me? Hey, actually, you and the TPN committee have helped a ton. As you alluded to, we will talk about in the upcoming pinball awards. I'm excited about that. January 28th, mark the calendar, people. It's going to be a party. It's going to be a real big party. Well, but speaking of backs, I hear Craig Bobby is back. I see what you did there. Okay. Yeah, he is back. He came out of the frozen tundra. He's got a big old, you know what? I was going to say a burly brown beard. I see the grays there, Craigie. I see the grays. He's getting old, Craig Bobby is. Wise. He's like a sage. A wizard. A wizard, Harry. You're a wizard, Craigie. Yeah, a wizard, Craigie.
    6:21
    You're like a Canadian Harry Potter. You know what? That actually works. That kind of works. He has a very pretty boy face. Yeah, let's kick it over to CB. See what he's been up to in this week's top stories. You're a wizard, Craigie.
    6:40
    That's ridiculous. A belated Happy New Year to all, and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Yes, good to be back on the Pinball Show with Zach Menny and Dennis Creasel. So much going on in the world of pinball leading up to and over the holidays. Let's get right to it and see what New Year's resolutions our favorite pinball manufacturers are making this coming year, which is opening up a whole raft of questions. Namely, could this be the year that someone other than Stern Pinball is able to release more than one title in a single year? Hot out of the New Year's gate, we have Spooky Pinball, who begins their opening production run of their newest title, Scooby-Doo, and also announced this past week the addition of another well-known voice actor to its upcoming Scooby-Doo pinball machine, Scott Innes, a multi-award-winning radio personality from Cumulus Media in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, who has also voiced a number of Hanna-Barbera cartoon characters over the years. His past work includes the voices of Scooby-Doo, Shaggy, Scrappy-Doo, as well as just about every villain in the series. Scott is joining the team to voice many of the game's villains and potentially even more, so stay tuned. On to American Pinball, who is determined to prove that the pinball-buying public is clamoring for another non-licensed pinball theme and is rumored to be releasing, or at least displaying, its rumored upcoming Galactic Tank Force machine, for the upcoming Texas Pinball Festival in April. Will Dave Fix finally be able to leverage that amazing American Pinball build quality and Amtron ownership arrangement this year to produce more than one title? And where is the next fan-designed home pin that American Pinball supposedly wants to build and sell? The clock is ticking over at American and it's high time for them to deliver as rivals such as Spooky Pinball, Jersey Jack, CGC, Pinball Brothers and even Haggis Pinball all pulled up their socks and got better in 2022. Many questions are lurking over at Jersey Jack for 2023, like when will our next game be revealed? Will it be the rumored Godfather title rumored to be designed by Eric Minier? And will JJP finally be able to get their pinball wagon over the two-release finish line in 2023 with an additional release of the rumored Elton John pinball machine by Steve Ritchie? If this is true, I'm sure Ritchie can't wait to bring his own former King of Flow style back to another Yellow Brick Road edition, but this time with Elton John riding shotgun. Meanwhile in the land down under Haggis Pinball, the little pinball upstart that could continues to plug away at building their extremely well-received but slowly built Fathom Revisited machine. Things are bopping along so well now that fans are even getting up the courage to look ahead to their next possible remake release of Bally's 1981 hit Centaur. Questions abound here if Haggis has done enough to keep the pinball party rolling with so many rumors flowing in 2021 and 22 about the company's possible insolvency. But it appears the company is continuing to prove the naysayers wrong as they forge ahead by building machines and get units out to eager customers around the world. On to Chicago Gaming Company as they continue to roll out Cactus Canyon LEs and other trim levels of the same title. Could 2023 be the year that CGC finally releases that much sought after final code effort from the deceased greatest coder of all time, Lyman Sheets? And what other tricks, trinkets and other title surprises does CGC have waiting up their sleeve for eager pinball buyers? We just can't wait! Over next to our European friends at the Pinball Brothers as they ink a deal to officially join forces with Pedretti Gaming to start a new company called Euro Pinball Corp. In its announcement, Pinball Brothers stated the following, the purpose of the new company is to provide a superior platform for large-scale manufacturing of pinball machines. Yes! Besides the raw capacity increase, it will allow us to run production of multiple games in parallel. All this as the Pinball Brothers look to continue producing Alien, start a full production run of the rock title Queen, and possibly announce their next title sometime later this year. And we end this segment, as you might expect, with maybe the most interesting and biggest developments in the pinball industry today with Stern Pinball. Now, in the last few weeks, we've seen that founding owner Gary Stern is retiring as CEO of Stern Pinball and fully handing over the reins to ex-Disney executive and current Stern Pinball president Seth Davis. Now, Gary will, of course, stay on with the board at Stern Pinball, so he's not quite gone yet, everyone. However, let's face it, Gary and the current Stern ownership isn't getting any younger. And when I hear about longtime CEOs stepping down and heavy corporate hitters like Seth Davis coming in, oh baby, times, they are a-changing people. So what do you do if you're the industry leader by a country model, can't keep up with production, and can't keep raising prices fast enough to slow the whole thing down? Well, you keep that party rolling. But what about this possibility, everyone? It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if at some point Stern and the other current owners of Stern Pinball packaged the whole thing up and sell to the highest bidder for a bazillion dollars of, say, five to eight times earnings. I mean, what about to the billionaire owner of JJP? What could be better than owning your own pinball company? Well, how about owning two pinball companies and taking control of 99% of the pinball market?
    12:44
    Okay, okay, back to reality, Bobby. Let's not tilt this podcast too soon here as we're about to make our super jackpot. But the reality is so many things could happen and will happen over the coming years at Stern Pinball. That is for sure. I mean, you don't hire a new CEO like Seth Davis and expect the status quo. No, no. Changes are coming, people, over at Stern Pinball, which will hopefully spell good things for the Stern product line and for the pinball hobby in general. Now, while others are desperately trying to get better, ramp up, or hell, even just get more than one title out per year, Stern Pinball is so busy and overloaded with business that they are doing the exact opposite. it, they're going to reduce the number of cornerstone titles they'll produce in one year, expand their production facilities, and you guessed it, raise prices yet again to the highest levels the industry has seen, as Stern continues to ride the growing wave of customers that are clamoring to buy into the exceedingly expensive hobby of new in pinball ownership And while their latest release of James Bond continues to drag on and create more controversy as it stumbles along Astern plays fast and loose with the marketing terms like limited, include, and exclusive, leaving some James Bond 60th anniversary buyers to wonder why the same supposed exclusive or limited edition James Bond toppers, which debuted on the very limited edition 60th Anniversary James Bond machines, are now being sold as a standard accessory to everyone. Then offers up its 60th Anniversary James Bond machines at a whopping $20,000 US, making even JJPCE owners think they got the deal of the century. But Stern Pinball shrugs all that supposed nonsense, like false promises, misdirection, or bad PR off, as what else are customers going to do? actually cancel or not order their product, or wait for another slowly released title from one of their competitors' B, C, or D-grade licensed or non-licensed themes to get their pinball nostalgic fix? No, it's back in line time with thousands of other diehard, well-to-do pinball fans as they line up again for the true mother of all rumored and not-so-secret pinball titles coming in the next few years. I'm talking about rumored titles like Marvel's Venom, music titles like the Foo Fighters, Eminem, and other rap, rock, or country music legends, as well as childhood favorites like, you guessed it, Harry Potter and Back to the Future. And don't get me started about the continued rollout of Stern's Insider Connector platform, which will continue to take players deeper into the world of Stern Pinball and the titles that they produce. I mean, come on. If there's a pinball fight, it's not even a fair one these days for the leaders over at Stern Pinball. The good news is the products over at Stern are simply, well, pretty much the best in almost every category, from artwork to gameplay to playfield design, rule sets, and the added ability of actually being able to produce more than one title a year. So until someone presents an honest-to-goodness, steady-at-the-helm manufacturing alternative with A-grade themes, we will return to our seats, buckle up for the ride, and all smile when we see our favorite nostalgic title being represented in stern pinball form. Well, that's all for this week for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    16:14
    Thanks, Craig. I appreciate that thorough rundown of what's happening in the pinball news. It's good to have Craig back. It is, and his magic. Like, we need to talk about Stern Pinball because they're the only ones that really have huge news. The only real news. Yes, yes, that's true. But this last one, I've had messages. Have you? I've had messages out the ass. People saying, I cannot wait until episode 121 so I can hear what you and Dennis Creasel have to say about the newest release from Stern Pinball. And that is James Bond 007 60th Anniversary Super Limited Edition. Maybe we'll call it that. No, I don't want to call it that. They want to know what we think. They've heard all the other podcasters, all the media pontificating and talk about their first impressions of what it could be, what it is, what it's going to be, how much it is, what it looks like. We've heard a little bit of you on the Eclectic Gamers podcast. Give a rundown as to some first impressions or initial thoughts of this new game by Stern Pinball, as well as, I think, Joel flipping out stream. He had a talk stream, flipping out with friends, which I think is cute. Nicely done, Jill. Where you made me chuckle several times. People are going to have to go back and listen and watch that VOD. But we had a game revealed January 3rd, right after our episode 123 parter. That was a hefty episode, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like the triple layer cake of audio. Some superficial people get upset because we don't show our numbers and stuff like that. I think them and numbers, like for all you petty bitches out there that care, I think that three combined, I think we're at like 9,000, 8,000 listens. So there you go. There's your fucking numbers. I actually haven't looked at all those. I put together our annual numbers for the podcasters. But, I mean, that's something we just agreed to when we set it up is that we'd give them – any show is allowed to release their numbers if they want. It's up to them. We didn't want it to feel like a competition. So, yeah, for those who care, why? Stop. It doesn't matter. A lot of people listen to us, and we appreciate that. Thank you so much. But we didn't get to talk about this. No, we did not. Keith Elwin Design. How does nobody not love this? Keith Elwin. The greatest of all time. There's only 500 made. 500 units globally. It's themed around all six different Bond eras of all the films. So if you didn't like Sean Connery and you actually are not old. Sorry, people. That's mean. I didn't grow up with Sean Connery. It doesn't matter. I don't even know how to say Craig. The tape player was for back in the day, or a Blu-ray player today. Yeah.
    18:47
    Daniel Craig is Bond, not Sean Connery. Pushy. Your thoughts were that you think the game looks fun, but it's ugly and it's overpriced. Is that correct?
    19:02
    That's actually a great summary. Thank you. You've saved me a lot. You've saved me a lot of speech. Yes, that's basically exactly what I said. We'll get into some of our first impressions, Dennis and listener. But before that, I just want to kind of talk about the release of this game. For those of you who are unfamiliar, I'm surprised because you're listening to this podcast being unfamiliar with it. But they came out with a cornerstone designed by George Gomez, themed around Sean Connery, pro premium LE. Later on, they had an even more exclusive super LE that was the 60th anniversary that was Keith Elwin designed. Only one model of this design. That's it. Only 500 units globally. It came out way later than the Cornerstone. So what was it going to be about? Stern Pinball ended up releasing, showing everybody on January 3rd this game. Then it went live on their website. They had a handful of them, Dennis, that they sold directly on their store. And then dealers could sell them as well. And it was a call for pricing for dealers. It was another one of these Elvira 40th Anniversary special limited edition things. So call for pricing, which means it could be $100,000. It could be $1. You can sell it for whatever you want to, dealers. I'd buy that for $1. Are you offering me one for $1? I'm not. Because I would actually buy it. I am not. Okay. Well, just let you know that the offer stands. So the weird thing is on the Elvira 40th anniversary, they gave dealers the option of setting the price. But on this, while they did the same, they didn't sell directly those Elviras. So we did, as dealers, have to establish a price. I would argue that Stern Pinball did set a price because even though they sold maybe a handful direct on their store, they listed them at $19,999 plus shipping and tax. Isn't that setting the price? Yes. And I think back before it was revealed, we had this discussion on part one or part two of episode 120. It was a two-tower episode. Yeah. It's like it doesn't really matter if there's an MSRP or not. If Stern's selling them, that's the touchstone. Everyone's going to know what that price was. Even once they sold out on the website and then the price is no longer listed, people still remembered what the price was, and, of course, it was rapidly and readily shared globally. Yes, very quickly. And they sold out relatively quickly. It wasn't like an instant, holy crap, it's gone. Yeah, not like how you sold out on this industry. Whoa! You like that? That was actually nicely done. That was a shill burn.
    21:34
    Nicely done. And they did sell out relatively quickly. And then when they did, they marked it just no prices on there anymore. And you had your conspiracy theorists out there. Wait a minute. Wait. They're embarrassed of their price. That's why they turned. Hmm? No. Was that a thing? I mean, because I've gone back to research what LE prices were. And once they're gone, they don't list it anymore. They just don't list it anymore. It's just a thing they do. I don't know. People are fucking nutty out there. Some of you all are nuts. So, yeah, they sold out of them. And then it was up to the dealers to sell them. What, are we going to sell them for more than $19,999? Hell no. Stern already set the price of that. So that's what most dealers set the price for. Now, the odd thing is they could visually themselves directly put a $19,999 on there. Dealers are not allowed to. I've been hearing a lot of people saying, list a price. And yelling at us, why don't you list a price? We can't. We're not allowed to. We have to list a call for pricing. We can't list a price. That's the only rule they had. I don't like calling them. It's call for pricing. And you know what? I want them to get into the 21st century as well. How about text for pricing? Yeah. What are they going to demand of us next, Zach? Fax for address info? Yeah, right. Email me for pricing. Telegram for delivery date? Help. Insta DM me, baby. But honestly, that probably wasn't allowed either. and I'm not sitting here on a public forum such as this that Stern Pinball can hear and say that I text anybody the price at which we were selling them for no don't listen I'm not gonna do that but yeah text for price maybe I ain't got time to pick up the damn phone for a hundred people calling me about one single price so dealers began selling these units I think most of them for the same price some dealers held off and they said wait you know there's only 500 of these damn things. We're going to hold off. Once they sell all out, then we'll sell them higher. That's just the business model of some people. Some other dealers are going to be overly concerned. Maybe they're scared that they're not going to get $20,000. They just clearance them off. Here!
    23:39
    I don't want to be stuck with all these things. They're all like little distro brain bugs from Starship Troopers. It's afraid! Fucking Starship Troopers. Hey, that's a pinball. That's a balsa game. Hello. I don't like that game that whole flipper thing i hate that little it's so it's because it's on a separate button that's why you don't yes that's why i don't like it joe stupid so needless to say it was an interesting tuesday for me being a dealer we sold out fairly quickly but we had a big long list but then here's what happened oh why i'm this transparent drama alert why am i always this real people this is what happened we sold out immediately bam but we had a big long list too So during that sellout, there was a lot of people that did pass. They're like, hell no, I'm paying $20,000 for this. But working down that list, we ended up selling them all out before getting to the bottom of our interested list. So that's that is a positive for me. Right. However, we knew that they were going to start producing these things in January, early February. For those of you who didn't know that, there you go. You're welcome. So here soon. So we knew that there was going to be a big ass bill for us because we got a decent allotment. We're one of the larger dealers. So we knew there was going to be a big-ass bill, so we had to take payment rather quickly. And I told the customers, I was like, look, we're going to get the bill for this, so I either need a nonrefundable deposit right now, a pretty hefty one, or I'm going to need full payment, whatever you're wanting to do, but here's the deadline to which I need full payment. Okay, understood. So that next day, I had five people drop out. Oh, shit!
    25:13
    And that was me admitting I at least had five, so that's probably not good. But I had, it wasn't a killer, but it was a holy shit, like, damn. And they were like, yeah, I don't want this anymore. I'm like, well, shit. We would have known that yesterday when I could have sold them.
    25:31
    So the rest of the week, it was that. Somebody called me, hey, I want one. All right, sounds good. Send me an invoice. Three days go by. I'm like, needs a payment here. I don't want it anymore. All right. And so it was a bit of a mess. This is very interesting to me, Zach. I did not realize the number of people on these high-dollar things are this fickle. Yes. And then it's like these, you know. What's your honest opinion, Zach? Should I buy this? No, tell me your dishonest opinion. That's what I want to know.
    26:02
    I'm telling you, I'm not good at this stuff sometimes because I will tell people, like, I'll be like, okay, we'll sit down. Let's figure it out together because, yeah, there are some pros and cons here. What are we going to do? So, yeah, and after the pros and cons, I will say that there was a couple media members. I won't, you know, keep them anonymous. There were a couple media members that you know that were in on this. They were ready for it. Reached out to me, and I said, all right, sounds good. Let's get you in. Then they were like, shit, Zach, am I? Should I? Should I not? I'm like, dude, I don't know what to tell you. Like, do what you want to do. Here's some of the things I'm looking forward to. Here's some of the things that are going against it compared to other Stern products. And one of them said, yep, let's keep it in. one of them said now i'm gonna sit this one out so yeah it is a it is a up and down time because then people think about it and then you've got other people in their ear you're an idiot if you buy this game how dare you you know uh and they just they don't want to feel like you know they're making a mistake and if they have people telling them like you're complete and utter piece of shit if you decide to buy this game and you're the problem with this entire industry if you enjoy this game or have the means to buy it then yeah they they're like well damn i don't i don't want to be that person. So, so yeah, you do get back and forth. Right. No, no. I, and I, and I understand that. In fact, I think that's where some people have been, I'm going to use Halloween and Ultraman as an example. I think that's where some of the people some of the owners who have reacted really negatively to negative criticism of the game are coming from Like they feel like that criticism is is somehow like besmirching them saying that they were stupid for buying a game or they're stupid for liking a game. And you know what? It's a game. You can like things that other people don't like. But on the, on the flip side, like as, because I give criticism of games, of course, when we, when we talk about these things that I think that this is overpriced does not mean to someone else that it is not an acceptable price and whether you disagree or agree with me is is moot so like if i don't like a particular game it doesn't mean you're not allowed to like it right and i i sometimes i go out and then explicitly say this and when i notice some people seem to have trouble with that are there actually people going around calling people stupid and stuff for buying it because that's really happens every time well yeah i guess i'm not really surprised that it happens i i've never seen the value in that just say like if you think it's a bad deal say why you think it's a bad deal um but beyond that you know if someone else still loves it and thinks that that the price is reasonable it's like okay well they made their decision just be informed i will that's all i ever ask i'll always go back to that too where it's you can say it's overpriced in my opinion it's overpriced i don't think there's any problem with that that's good discussion but yes whenever you're trying to hurt people just because they're excited and wanting to buy something. That's where I'm like, fuck off. And that does affect people. It affects people's moods. It affects people's feeling of belonging to a community. It affects a lot of things for people. So I'm not always good with that. And that's usually where I'm like, okay, enough is enough. Well, that's something I, Zach, have questioned on my end as well. Like, I've wondered at times, am I sometimes too harsh? Because I want to be as blunt and direct about my stance on games as possible. But then there are people that, that react in ways that make me think that they took it personally when it wasn't meant that way. You know what? It almost, you remind me of what Keith L when, how he describes the 60th anniversary in the recent podcast by the Stern insider pinball podcast, otherwise known as sip. Uh, when he, I think you're very much like this game where he called it quote, drainy, but fair. I think that's you. You're draining, but it's fair. I didn't hear this interview, but it sounds like, So this is the new tight but findable. This is the new tight but findable. Drainy but findable. And I think that's you. It's drainy but fair. We're going to talk about how media covers certain releases in the future, maybe in a Pinball Market Trends segment upcoming. But I do want to direct people over to the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. Travis Meary and the team over there had a really informative discussion about this release and the pricing, etc. Go give that a listen. And many, many great points made by Travis Murie. He's in the industry now. He's working for a distributor, so he gets it. A lot of what he said, I very much agree with. There was one particular thing that he was harping on that I do not agree with. He talked about this product being created not for pinball buyers, but for James Bond super fans.
    30:45
    He said that was a primary focus. Everybody listening to this podcast, this isn't for you. You're missing it. There's only 500 made. This is for the diehard Bond fans. They'll spend $150,000 on a watch. They will spend half a million dollars on a car. They will spend anything James Bond they will spend. He sees this as a James Bond super fan product. I wholeheartedly disagree, and I'll tell you why. What are your thoughts? I actually agree with Travis, and I think you're wrong.
    31:19
    Okay. Why is that? Not the why I'm wrong because I'm right. No, no, no. Why do I think this is me? This is a product that was solely created for the Uber fan. I think that that's the target audience. I'm not going to go and say solely, obviously. Stern doesn't care who buys it, right? It's going to – they just want to sell them. Very true. So why do I think that it's targeted towards the Bond superfans is because anyone with a lot of experience in the hobby looking at the game, looking at the price point, will understand that the price point is the price point because of the limited nature of the game. It has nothing to do primarily with the bill of materials. The bill of materials does not justify this price point. If this was a game for pinball collectors, it wouldn't be limited and it would be sold at a cheaper price point. The limited nature seems to be structured to try and move it towards Bond superfans. So that's why I think Travis is correct in this instance. I think he's incorrect because that feeling that a lot of us had about the launch of not only the Cornerstone James Bond game, but the 60th anniversary game, this back and forth, this is cool, but this is weird. Why did they roll? The licensure kind of sucks. What is up with this? It's $20,000, but it's a single level game. We're kind of confused and mixed emotion-wise. I think Stern Pinball was kind of the same way. I think that they lacked control of a lot of the aspects of this product launch and product in general because of the IP holder. And having 500 products is much smaller than their typical LE runs now or their pro or premium runs. So it was a small product, 500. And when I say 500, I mean that's the only way you can play this damn game is 500. You can't play an LE and say, well, but the premium is kind of the same game. The pro is kind of the same game. It's 5,000 units plus. Now, this is 500. So I think Stern kind of got wrapped up and mixed up with a super niche little set, subsets of who the target audience were, but they contradicted one another. I don't think this was for Super Bond fans because to me, a James Bond aficionado listener, they're going to buy the coolest shit that is James Bond. And that's a pro pinball machine. That's maybe a premium pinball machine. Y'all think your James Bond collection is cool? Check out mine. I got the damn pinball machine. Boom. It ain't, well, you did, but did you get the 60th anniversary, James? No, because they don't have, they can't focus that closely in on an industry that they're not familiar with. James Bond pinball is James Bond pinball. This game is a single-level pinball shooter's dream. This is for a competitive pinball player. This is for a deep-seated, just crazy, crazy pinball fan. The problem, in my opinion, this is a stretch here, but don't bury the pitchforks in the back. I don't know how many uber-competitive people that this is geared towards are really high-end pinball collectors. I think this was geared towards the uber-pinball fan. Why else have Keith Elwin on it? why else have notably lack of assets in this that any bond fan would not appreciate? I think this was competitive pinball players dream this game. And you're hearing that in media, you're hearing that on the forums, people who play in tournaments, people who really get into the physicality and the play of pinball, they're eating this shit up. The problem is those aren't necessarily the same people that spend $20,000 on a Toten remake because it's got cool toys, bells, and whistles that they don't play a lot. That's where I think it got mixed up there. I think this was geared towards the Uber pinball fan more than anything, but that might not be the market at which it's going to pay $20,000 plus for a product. Does that make sense? It does, though. I think you're commingling what Elwynn did versus what Stern Pinball did. I think what Elwynn did was this product.
    35:31
    Yes, obviously. The product is Elwynn's design, and Elwynn's made a game that – and that's what I think a lot of people are lamenting is so clearly a player's game, a pinball aficionado, a true player's game, a game that players would appreciate. However, purportedly, the licensor demanded the single-level aspect. The licensors who said it needed to be more throwback in style and limited in what its asset resources would be and all of that sort of thing. Elwynn just worked his magic on a single-level design because that's what the mandate was. And as he had noted, he had time in between cornerstones to be able to do the work. So that's why he's on it. But I don't think Stern was like, we've got to make it for the super players. I think Stern was like the licensor, this whiny licensor who has been super difficult to work with, now wants a super high-end limited version for James Bond superfans. And I do disagree with – I know where you're coming from about the Bond superfans not going to know the difference between Gomez, Bond, Ellie, this, a Bond pro. But they're not – while they're not familiar with pinball, they're not total idiots either. Like they're able to tell all the different Omega, LE, wristwatch. There are multiple LE watches at different price points that Omega does for James Bond. They're able to tell. It's a press release. All it takes is to know that this one was limited to $500 and the other one was limited to $1,000 for them to know that this is the more special one. That's all it takes. Bond wore the Omega watch. Bond drove the Aston Martin. That's why the specifics and the details mattered. He didn't play a pinball machine in any of the films, so it's a moot point, I think. Well, that's incorrect. It's a large box. A number of the Bond limited edition watches are not the watches that were worn in the movies. Okay. Alright. That's a great point. Some are, and historically the Bond watches were watches that are just part of the catalog that aren't even limited. Omega now, probably with the work of the licensor, now makes special watches, you know, honoring Bond, like having the animated opening sequence on the back of the watch uh you know that you see with the movement and just weird stuff that's designed just for collectors that's not in the films so no it's i i see where i see what your argument is on all of that but the bond as you noted the the challenge of course is and i agree with you most like competitive player most pinball players in general are not the high-end high dollar expenders and to see a a layout that this may be unfair of me but i'm gonna say only really experienced pinball people are probably going to truly appreciate it's unfortunate to see it behind a paywall like this yeah so now i'm the single level liftist yeah you better not call it joel better not call it a street level whoa no it's not a street level this price point tells you it is not a street level um not to mention the custom hat which is in no way the slash hat we promise the um i'm sorry i'm just wanting to work better uh you know what let me ask you a question uh given all of this i can't wait to talk about that i can't wait i've been itching i'm looking at the podcast last week solo just to talk about this i brought this up as a theory it's totally this is me totally speculating what do you think about my idea that after they're all done with this and you know i don't think they ever work with this license or ever again anyway but regardless of that you know once the sales are done the sales are done what do you think the odds are that Stern at some point goes ahead and reuses this layout on a non-bond game and just says, here you go. I think the odds are moderate that they will. If anyone at Stern that makes decisions is listening, don't do it. Do it. Do not. Do it. Do it. You know why? Tell me why, Zach. This might give me some emails. It's the pinball network at gmail.com. At gmail.com. You know why? Because I think that at $19,999, I think that's the right price. I really do. You're giving me 500 games that are going to be spread across the entire globe that nobody can buy. I can buy. I got the Supreme, but I can buy the Spider-Man Home Edition. No, there's 500 people. It's Keith Elwin. And if you want to play this damn Keith Elwin game, you've got to pony it up for 500 units. You can't buy a pro. we can't buy a premium. This is the right price. And it's special because there are people like me. And guess what, listener? I am proud to say my ass is unboxing one of these things. Hell yeah. And I am incredibly excited to play this game. I'm excited to the point that, sure, that's a little niche little area that high-end collectors, but also somebody that really plays the hell out of pinball and enjoys the flow and the feel of pinball. There's plenty of us out there. I'm one of them. I'm one of those 500 people. And it makes it even more special for people like me. Because not that I can afford this game, but I can afford to take a flyer on this game. I can afford to give it a chance. It's all calculated. What's the worst that's going to happen? I lose a couple grand. What's the best that's going to happen? I make a couple grand. Who cares? I get to play a game there's only 500 of. And it's not going to totally, I'm not going to lose my ass, you know, if it goes down just like most other pinball machines right now in the softer market. This is $500. They nailed the price. I don't see this. Here's the other thing. For all those people, listener, you might be guilty of it. They said you know I don want to pick on Joel but God it made me cringe when I heard him say you know they priced this thing at or I guess that my Joel impersonation They priced this thing at or They would have sold a shitload of them No they wouldn have because you know why Because the listeners and I guilty of it too, would bitch and whine about that too. You mean to tell me this thing costs $10,000? Oh my God, you know how many more they could have sold if it was $5,000? Oh, fuck. No, it's $20,000. There's only $500 made. I'm eating it up. But you're a collector, Zach. And there's 500 of us out there. It doesn't matter, because here's why you brought you already brought up the reason why i i get your angle but it's uh it's irrelevant you people like you are going to get sucked into this anyway because of the 500 unit you know it's limited specialist 500 20 000 makes sense at the 500 supreme already proves that even with the layout had already existed you can still find plenty of people to overpay on a whole bunch of games as long as they're limited so and that why not let it work backwards Let this game go. Sell the 500. Two years later, this gets thrown in as one of the options for the contract game. So Heavy Metal 2.0 comes out, and it uses this layout, and people are paying 10. And it doesn't affect you because you still only have one of the 500 Bond versions. And we know that hardcore pinball collectors don't all of a sudden get out of the hobby all of a sudden because their layout got – technically, anyone can take anyone else's layout. You can't copyright the layout. No, because I'm still firm on my argument that the people that are spending the $20,000 for this game are people like me. I'm spending the money because of that layout. It sure as hell is not because of James Bond. It's not because of the art. It's not because of the sound. It's not because of the assets. I'm paying $20,000 for Keith Elwin. I own his other games. I want to play this one. I understand. I understand it. I, for me, as much as I enjoy his layouts, I don't see $20,000 worth of fun on that play field. Name a game that you can say that to, though. None. That's why I don't own any $20,000 games, Zach. I'm saying any game. That's a point that doesn't make sense to me either. You still buying eggs?
    43:24
    That's relative to anything. So if that argument's going to be made, I've been primed on this shit because this is what I'm hearing from people. If that's an argument made, then that's an argument that's going to be made for every product that comes out. People make a value judgment. They'll assess how many – part of it would be like how many games do I think I'm going to play on it, and am I going to assess those games at a set value amount? And, of course, as you noted, you can factor in like what do you think you're going to be able to sell the game for? Yeah. I can't know for sure that I'd only take a $2,000 loss. We've seen other games, Halloween and Ultraman, that have dropped more than $2,000. People thought Supreme was crazy too when it came out. I still don't understand that's the thing with Supreme. I don't either. Yeah, it was readily available in a much more affordable game. But again, that was because it was Supreme Super fans who went and bought that. But who designed that game? Was that a Gomez design? I don't remember. Exactly.
    44:16
    Exactly. I think it was Gomez. But my point being, the selling point here is Keith Elwin. No, this is why, in my mind, the only reason there are any people who are pissed about this is because Keith Elwin's games have always had an accessible option, and this is the first time that it's not true. Yeah. That's why they're mad. People are getting angry. I don't get the anger. I don't get it. I get the, I'm not going to buy it. It's visceral. It's just people, like if you went out, let's say you got in the hobby, and you're like, oh, my God, Keith Elwin is the greatest designer ever, and I bought Iron Maiden, and I bought Jurassic Park. You've got them all, and you're like, you've been so, like you save up, and you're always like, I'm in on it all, I'm in on it all, and then all of a sudden there's one and you just can't swing it. Like you don't have $20,000 available to get it. And you're like, all I do is collect Elwynn games and my streak is broken. My whole plan is ruined.
    45:13
    I mean, that's what some of it could very well be. I just don't believe that either because somebody that's willing to have a collection and buy $9,700 premiums can buy a $20,000 Super Ellie. No, I get why you think that. It's true. No, it's not. It is true. They're choosing not to. No, it's not necessarily true. It's not necessarily true. I mean, it comes down to, you know, you might be able to say, well, they could find a way to swing it. But if they say, let's say they set aside a certain amount of money a month and they basically earn enough money to buy a premium a year, telling them that they can now go up $20,000 without compromising a collection. assuming this collection is only Elwynn games and selling one means they broke their whole plan, it doesn't work. You could say, well, they could get a loan or something. Now we're changing the rules of how they choose to approach affording pinball machines.
    46:09
    Not everyone who has $9,000 to play with has $20,000 to play with. It doesn't work like that. Not for everyone. I think it does if they have a collection of games.
    46:19
    That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that... Five to ten pinball machines and they're buying premiums, they can do 20. Let's use me as an example. So let's say I'm willing to have a certain dollar amount in my collection. You could argue that I could sell two or three of my games and get this game and that it would be true. I could do it. But if, let's say, I said, all right, I have set games that can never leave. Bolted to the floor. I'm not driving bolts through my floor, people. And even if you did, there's ratchets. The bolts come out pretty easy. It's not that big of a deal. But go on. So let's say that I could only sell my Buck Rogers, like my only dispensable game at this point, and all the others are keepers. So it's like, okay, well, how much will I get for Buck Rogers? Less than $2,000. So can I afford the other 18 that I would need? And what was my pinball budget? And now there are two other things also. So it's what can I afford and what do I budget for play money in this hobby?
    47:21
    A lot of people can't cross that. Like they set a rule for themselves and they can't – even if they could, quote, unquote, afford it. It's like, well, yeah, I could afford it if I take money away from the fund I had to replace my car in two years. I mean – It's all choices. Yeah, they are. There are choices. But there are people that had plans and those plans – and this is – I'm not this sort of collector. So I'm doing my best to sympathize with what they think. And they're just like, I can't do it. I'd have to break all my rules to do it. And I'm not going to break my rules because that would show how weak of a person I am. And to that I would say, totally fine. Only 500 of us that need to – that's why I think Stern nailed it. They only need 500 of them. I think the majority will feel the way you do, and that's okay. It wouldn't have been okay if there was 5,000, 10,000. That's where it's hard for me. That's where I try and sympathize, but again, to me, it would just be like, well, it's what I've done with it. I just let it go. At this price point, I'm not willing. The value isn't there for me, so I let it go. It's not a game I will get. I don't see the whole – like when I think of a product like this, it's the same thing with the toppers. I've said over and over. To me, I don't look at the $20,000.
    48:34
    I'm waging, am I going to lose money? Am I going to gain money? is that what's the window, the best accurate hypothesis I can have for a window of gain or loss here, just because I don't want to lose my ass. What's the difference between doing that and 90% of these retail stores for pinball that you buy Data East for fucking $4,000 to $5,000 and they're $3,000 over price? That's the same thing. If you lose, you're going to lose about the same as you would. So that's what's relevant to me. But does anybody talk about that? No. Nobody really talks about it. Well, it's retail. I mean, you're going to lose your ass on retail. Well, there's just so many angles here that I don't get the hostility.
    49:22
    And I'm close. I think it's pretty easy to understand why in an industry where $20,000 just isn't done, that it all of a sudden is done, that causes people to get upset. Because you require that amount. Regardless of whatever arguments you have, existing pinball machines are not illiquid. They are illiquid assets. You have to turn them into cash.
    49:46
    Dealers aside, that might do some trade deals for you, of course. Of course. So the point is not everyone has $20,000 readily, liquidly available that might have had enough money to buy a bond premium. It's just important. Now, are there 500 that do? Yes, I do think so. But this is where I do believe, because it doesn't affect you as a soon-to-be-unboxing Bond 60th person, based off of the feedback and the excitement for Keith's layout, I think it would make a lot of smart business sense for Stern to consider at some point reusing this layout on a more produced game. Different license, but more produced. That is a big risk. Why? Because you're slapping in the face the people who are willing to buy it. It doesn't matter. You're going to buy the next LE anyway. They already know what sort of buyer you are. I completely agree with that. An easy buyer. I think they can rely on it. Put back to the future, I can be had. I forget very easily. So yeah, great point there. Great point there. Selfishly, I don't want to see him do it. I'd rather than reuse the James Bond thing. No, no. I understand why the 500 wouldn't want it to happen. I'm just saying from a business standpoint, nope. It's a win to do it later. Just do it later. Keith Elwin? I don't know because the I think the obvious thing if you're Keith Elwin you want most people playing I don't know I think if I'm Keith Elwin I'm like you know what I want it to be special I do want this to be special if he earns a commission on each sale if I was Keith I'd be like you know what reuse it 20 times I don't care that's pretty I think it's commonplace that there's commissions for designers and stuff I don't know who and what company but and that's something that goes back I think so Yeah, that's something I'd heard. And if somebody wants a single-level play style like this game offers, you can play Beatles. You can go back to the Gottliebs of the world. You can go back to the Williams of the world, the Ballys of the world. You'll get that same type of feel. You're not really saying every single level is the same, are you? I'm not saying that. I'm saying there are attributes to this designed game that you can find elsewhere. And you're not going to have to pay $20,000 for it. Yes, that's true. So there's no reason to be mad. This is a single-level thing. And am I sounding like I'm saying there's not $20,000 worth of fun here? Maybe. Maybe I am saying that. But is there $10,000 worth of fun in a Led Zeppelin premiere? I don't know. It's all relative. I agree with you. I don't think people should be mad, but I think it's fair for them to be disappointed. All they want to. Yep, all they want to. But I don't see any reason to get angry about pinball in that realm. I mean, this is not life or death stuff here, guys. Can we not agree? For me, we'll get into the features. This game looks fucking badass. This game looks fun as hell. Again, that's why so many people are disappointed at the price point, because they can look at this and go, you know what? This looks like a lot of fun. Yes. It's so clever because it looks simple, but I know how this game is going to shoot without even touching the flippers yet. I can sense it. I can see it. I can see the ball pass. I can see the banks in locations that I'm familiar with on older style games that I like where that's at. The inline drop targets, the figure eight swoop, even the little far right shot for the bonus. You can do a combo shot that spins all four opto spinners in this. I can't wait to play this freaking game. In conclusion, my thought regarding the price of this all since the first time I'm talking about it. The price of this, how many units are out there, people's feedback and what they thought about all of this. Here's where I'm at. I think we all can agree it looks fun as hell. I think we can all agree that we're excited about anything that Keith Elwin does. For those of you who can manage the price for this pinball game, and they would like to play it and buy it and purchase it, please do not feel bad for all the other people who want to bring you down about purchasing something you're capable of being an adult making a decision to purchase. Be proud. Be proud that you're somewhere in your life that you can buy shit you want. You can take flyers on stuff like this. Don't be discouraged about that. You're not taking a position by purchasing a product saying anything about people who don't want to or can't. You're just saying this thing looks cool. I can manage to purchase this thing, take a risk for this thing, or potentially invest in this thing. Don't feel bad about that. And if you do, contact me and I'll keep this shit anonymous. And nobody's got to know that you bought one and you're having a fucking blast in your game room. All to yourself and to your buddies. I'll keep it secret. But I am waving the flag of Bond 60th. I can't wait to rip into this. Watch the game suck.
    54:40
    And that concludes part one of episode 121 of the Pinball Show. Thanks for listening. We still have so much more to discuss, such as Dennis and I going over our first impressions of the actual James Bond 60th anniversary game, as well as that controversial exclusive topper. And you're going to love 121's pinball market trends. Go listen to it now or take a break or whatever the hell you want. Just go listen to it.