Episode 133 - Score Motors - Gottlieb

For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·15m 33s·analyzed·Jul 22, 2015

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.019

TL;DR

Technical deep-dive on Gottlieb score motor design, maintenance, and reliability.

Summary

Nick Baldridge provides a comprehensive technical overview of Gottlieb score motors used across their EM pinball lineup. He explains the mechanics of index/run-out switches, cam stacking, adjustment challenges, and maintenance requirements, while asserting that Gottlieb motors are among the most reliable despite their complexity and difficult serviceability compared to competitors.

Key Claims

Gottlieb used the same style of score motor for all of its EM life with circular arrangement and motor mounted underneath
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, host/expert, describing foundational Gottlieb motor design
The index switch (run-out switch) is the most frequent source of issues on Gottlieb score motors, becoming dirty or pitted
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, based on direct service experience
Gottlieb score motors are more difficult to adjust than any other manufacturer
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, direct experience comparison
Once tuned, Gottlieb motors work very well with very small chance of failure compared to competitors
medium confidence · Nick Baldridge, opinion based on service experience
Gottlieb used riders and actuators on cams to extend switch closure time without redesigning cam bumps
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, technical explanation of design innovation
Actuators on Gottlieb score motors can break over time with wear and lack of cleaning, and are difficult to replace without reference materials
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, direct service experience
Gottlieb score motors have fewer parts than Williams or Bally motors, reducing failure points
medium confidence · Nick Baldridge, comparative analysis opinion
Nick Baldridge avoids buying games with bound motors due to service trouble
high confidence · Nick Baldridge, personal collecting/service preference

Notable Quotes

“one of the most frequent issues that I see on Gottlieb score motors is that the index switch is dirty or pitted and it prevents the proper indexing of the motor”
Nick Baldridge @ ~2:20 — Identifies the most common failure mode and diagnostic indicator
“it's usually pretty easy to see this particular error. one of the switches which is mounted and rides along the top cam may appear closed but it's not actually doing anything and that's going to be your run out switch”
Nick Baldridge @ ~2:50 — Provides diagnostic method for identifying index switch failures
“the switches are or can be difficult to adjust. You have these four different stacks which are mounted sideways on these horizontally stacked cams. It's just tricky to be able to see the action of every switch”
Nick Baldridge @ ~6:00 — Explains the core serviceability challenge of Gottlieb motors
“it takes some doing. There is a chart for each game, usually located on the schematic, but sometimes on a piece of paper stapled inside the game, which shows the orientation of each of the switch stacks”
Nick Baldridge @ ~8:30 — Describes documentation challenges for replacement parts, mentions need for community resources and Pinball Resource
“despite all that negativity, I do have to say that Gottlieb score motors are my favorite... there's just less to go wrong there's fewer parts so despite the couple of downsides I feel like they are the superior motor”
Nick Baldridge @ ~9:40 — Expert conclusion: reliability trumps serviceability difficulty

Entities

Nick BaldridgepersonGottliebcompany Williamscompany BallycompanyExhibitcompanyUnitedcompanySteve YoungpersonIPDBorganizationFor Amusement Only Podcastevent

Signals

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restoration_signal: Index/run-out switch dirty/pitted condition identified as most common failure mode on Gottlieb score motors, with visual diagnostic method provided
high · Nick Baldridge states 'one of the most frequent issues that I see on Gottlieb score motors is that the index switch is dirty or pitted' and describes how to visually identify the problem by looking down from the top of the motor
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restoration_signal: Gottlieb actuator replacement requires reference materials (schematics, IPDB photos, community consultation) due to lack of sizing/shape documentation
high · Nick Baldridge notes 'the size and shape of the actuators are not described. So you're at the mercy of finding a photo on IPDB, talking to someone else who owns the game, talking to Steve Young at Pinball Resource, or just trial and error'
?
design_innovation: Gottlieb used riders and actuators on cam stacks to extend switch closure time without requiring new cam designs, compared to competitors
high · Nick Baldridge explains the rider and actuator mechanisms allow 'the switch to remain closed for longer than just the time that the cam drops out or lifts up' and 'provide extra time for the switches to remain closed without having to design an entirely new cam bump'
?
design_innovation: Gottlieb score motors have fewer parts overall than Williams/Bally designs, reducing potential failure points despite higher adjustment complexity
medium · Nick Baldridge asserts 'there's just less to go wrong there's fewer parts' in Gottlieb design compared to competitors
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Topics

Gottlieb score motor mechanics and designprimaryEM pinball restoration and maintenanceprimaryIndex/run-out switch diagnosis and repairprimaryComparative score motor design (Gottlieb vs Williams vs Bally vs Exhibit)primaryServiceability and repair difficultysecondaryActuator and rider design innovationsecondaryParts sourcing and documentation challengessecondaryReliability and longevity comparisonsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.75)— Speaker expresses strong preference for Gottlieb motors despite acknowledging significant serviceability challenges. Overall tone is educational and balanced, but conclusion strongly favors Gottlieb reliability and design elegance. No negativity toward any party, but clear frustration with adjustment difficulty.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.047

what's that sound it's for amusement only the em and bingo pinball podcast welcome back to for amusement only this is Nicholas Baldridge today i wanted to tackle gottlieb score motors gottlieb used the same style of score motor for all of its em life The arrangement was similar to the exhibit score motor, which I described yesterday. It's a circular arrangement where the motor is actually mounted underneath. So the motor cams are mounted or stacked on top of the motor. the motor itself has a variety of switches arranged in usually four different positions although there can be up to five I believe and each of these different positions allows for different switches to make at different parts of the cycle One of the really interesting things about Gottlieb score motors, and in fact any score motor, is the way that it knows when it has completed a cycle, a half cycle, a quarter cycle, etc. Based on the position of the top cam, or the cam in front, there's a switch which is normally open, and when the motor begins to turn, closes. This switch is called the index switch, or the run-out switch, and as long as it is closed, the motor will turn. If the switch will not make for whatever reason, it will prevent the motor from completing a full cycle. Gottlieb motors are no exception to this, of course, as I mentioned. and one of the most frequent issues that I see on Gottlieb score motors is that the index switch is dirty or pitted and it prevents the proper indexing of the motor. Now when your motor stops halfway through a cycle, it'll leave a variety of switches in an incorrect state. Either on when they're supposed to be off, etc. So, figuring this out is usually pretty easy. Because if you look down from the top of the score motor, and again, the way that Gottlieb motors are produced, it's usually pretty easy to see this particular error. one of the switches which is mounted and rides along the top cam may appear closed but it's not actually doing anything and that's going to be your run out switch. Cleaning those switches works the same as any other high powered contact in the game You can file them if they pitted and you can clean them with a flex tone should you so choose, or just clean them with a file or clean them with a business card. Any of those will work, but the important thing is to get them relatively clean so that the appropriate amount of current will flow. As I mentioned yesterday, the motor is only going to turn when the machine has to think about something. So during coin-up, for example, the motor has to turn in order to tell the various relays to fire off the control reset. Now the switches which govern that on the motor are only active when the coin process is going on, or the credit process. The Gottlieb motors require lubrication periodically, and they have a wicking point in the center. Now you put a bit of oil in there, the wick absorbs it, and runs it to the motor where it needs it. Again, I try to avoid buying games that have bound motors Because you're in for a bit of trouble But there is an exception to every rule And I'll be going into that very soon So You've got your motor, it's turning but perhaps your game is scoring too much or too little. That action can be governed by a switch on the score motor or a switch on one of the relays. And here's the downside of the Gottlieb method of manufacturing these score motors. the switches are or can be difficult to adjust. You have these four different stacks which are mounted sideways on these horizontally stacked cams. It's just tricky to be able to see the action of every switch. So Gottlieb thought of this and they used hairpins in order to allow you to flip the score motor up into the air to service the motor as well as see the action in all the switches and perform cleaning. that's pretty handy but it doesn't solve every problem especially if someone gets a little over eager and flips the motor up really hard and mangles some switches so it just takes careful adjustments similar to the short throw relays which I've griped about before you just have to be go slowly when you're doing it because it's a lot more difficult to adjust a Gottlieb score motor than any other manufacturer that I've run across. I have not worked on a United Bingo or otherwise, and they use a similarly stacked score motor so it possible that those are even more difficult The nice thing about the Gottlieb motors is that when they are tuned, they work very well with a very, very small chance of failure compared to some of the compatriots. which I'll be going into soon. So don't be frightened of the Gottlieb score motor, but know that you're in for a bit of a challenge. One other thing I'd like to mention about the Gottlieb score motor are some of the inventive ways that they had to change the rate of travel on the cams. So you have these cams, and each cam is shaped a little differently. It has different bumps. As I mentioned on the exhibit podcast, I talked about how the different bumps actuate a single switch, and it'll turn on the coil for the thousand-stepper well. in this configuration Gottlieb's configuration they were able to make it so that you had these little riders that rode on the cam and they would allow for the switch to remain closed for longer than just the time that the cam drops out or lifts up it's pretty neat to see in action And again, it provides a longevity of service, which is not necessarily present in the other manufacturers. That's not to say that once the other manufacturers' score motors are tuned that you have to go in there and mess around with them frequently. But they are more prone to failure, in my experience, over time than the Gottlieb ones. The other thing they did is on the top cam, because of the way that they are stacked vertically, built up from the bottom of the cab, they had these posts that stick out of the top cam. And as the posts turn, they actuate these little actuators, which are all oddly shaped, but they're very specific to each stack. and when that's hit, it allows the stack to change state and stay changed for a longer period of time. So similar to the riders I was talking about, these little actuators provide extra time for the switches to remain closed without having to design an entirely new cam bump just to handle that. so let's talk about some problems with this setup the first is that you can get breakages so over time with enough wear and if the the actuators are not wiped off every once in a while and kept clean, that actuator is likely to break. If someone moves the game with the balls in it and one of them falls in under the playfield or something of that nature, you know, it can cause all kinds of damage. So once those have broken, it can be very difficult to fashion a new one. It is definitely possible it certainly doable but it takes some doing There is a chart for each game, usually located on the schematic, but sometimes on a piece of paper stapled inside the game, which shows the orientation of each of the switch stacks and their labels. 1, 2, 3, or 4, and sometimes there's a 3.5 thrown in the mix, maybe a 5, and the switches are oriented from bottom to top, A, B, C, D, E. Now, the riders are shown on the schematic as far as how to assemble, but the size and shape of the actuators are not described. So you're at the mercy of finding a photo on IPDB, talking to someone else who owns the game, talking to Steve Young at Pinball Resource, or just trial and error in order to figure out how to get this done. again it happens however none of the home games which I've ever serviced once they're in the home and finished their transport have ever been damaged once they're there I'm certain that it is possible for one of those actuators to fly away, but I've never seen it, but I have not repaired, you know, thousands of games or anything, so I don't know, but what I do know is that something breaks them, and that does happen. Well, despite all that negativity, I do have to say that Godleap score motors are my favorite, And again, it's for the maintenance-free sort of aspect to them. They're pretty nice creatures, and they operate smoothly. The cam stacks that they use, because they are different than, say, a Williams or a Bally, there's just less to go wrong there's fewer parts so despite the couple of downsides I feel like they are the superior motor but everyone has their own opinion and again when I get to control units that's a whole other subject But as far as the score motors in pin games, I feel that the Gottlieb score motors are some of the most reliable. Well, thank you again for joining me. My name again is Nick Baldrige. You can reach me at 4amusementonlypodcast at gmail.com, or you can call me on the bingos line. That's 724-BINGOS1. That's 724-246-4671. you can listen to us on iTunes, Stitcher, Pocket Casts via RSS, on Facebook on Twitter at Bingo Podcast you can follow me on Instagram at nbaldridge or you can listen to us on our website which is formusementonly.libsyn.com thank you very much for listening and I'll talk to you next time