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Ep 13: Star Wars Home Edition and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 8m·analyzed·Jul 18, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.043

TL;DR

Loser Kid discusses Star Wars Home Edition leak and TMNT pinball rumor as market-expanding moves by Stern.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss Stern's Comic-Con strategy and Star Wars Home Edition leak, analyzing its market positioning as a gateway pinball machine priced around $4,000. The hosts also confirm rumors of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball machine in development, discussing its appeal to 40-50 year old collectors and nostalgic value, while briefly touching on Guns N' Roses (JJP) and Elvira's extended development timeline.

Key Claims

  • Star Wars Home Edition is based on the Spider-Man Home Edition/Supreme layout with identical insert placement

    high confidence · Josh states: 'it's a pretty much the exact replica of the spider-man slash supreme layout i mean the inserts are in the same places to it's to a t'

  • Spider-Man Home Edition machines sell in the $3,200-$3,500 range secondarily and hold value well

    high confidence · Josh researched pricing: 'Most of them have been selling anywhere from about $3,200 to $3,500'

  • Star Wars is the number one earning pinball machine on location despite mixed critical reception

    high confidence · Josh: 'you talk to operators it's the number one earning pinball machine out on location'

  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was originally created as a parody of 1980s comic book trends (Daredevil, X-Men, Teen Titans)

    high confidence · Scott explains: 'ninja trolls originally started out as a joke...they wrote it because um daredevil was huge at the time'

  • TMNT merchandise sales reached $6 billion by 1994 and remain commercially viable through Nickelodeon ownership

    medium confidence · Scott: 'By 1994, it had sold $6 billion worth of merchandise'

  • Elvira pinball has been in development for 3-4 years since Dennis Nordman left Stern

    high confidence · Josh: 'that's been how many years now? Three, four years?' regarding Elvira's extended timeline

  • Keith Elwin typically requires 13-14 months for game design, suggesting early rumor timing for TMNT

    medium confidence · Josh speculates: 'Keith Elwins said they usually do 13 to 14 months. So what are we at? Like a Whitewood stage here?'

  • Stern's primary business objective is to sell pinball machines, not cater exclusively to enthusiasts

    high confidence · Josh references Steve Ritchie: 'Steve Ritchie said it before, my job is to sell pinball machines'

Notable Quotes

  • “if Stern is going to...any pinball company really is trying to branch out, the challenge is you need to be true to your core fans...but you also tend to get the same echo chamber. If you go to a show that the San Diego Comic-Con is huge...if you are going to try to branch out and to really reintroduce pinball to the masses, I think that's a great place to go.”

    Scott Larson @ ~6:00 — Articulates the strategic rationale for Stern's Comic-Con presence beyond echo chambers of dedicated hobbyists

  • “even some of the top ranked players that actually shooting that thing is kind of fun. Like Keith was talking about, He and Josh have a great time chasing each other's scores on Supreme. And guess what? It's not as deep as a Keith Johnson rule set, but it doesn't matter. Is it kinetically pleasing? Do you like hitting the shot and seeing it move around? Does it fire off the dopamine receptors in your brain?”

    Josh Roop @ ~19:00 — Defends accessibility-focused design philosophy; argues dopamine/kinetic pleasure transcends rules depth for casual players

  • “I got into pinball to find an escape, an escape that doesn't have to do with politics...it doesn't have to do with any sort of left or right or economic or religious...it's a era where people can get together and say, hey, you want to play a pinball game? Yeah, me too. OK, let's go play.”

    Josh Roop @ ~45:00 — Captures emotional appeal of pinball as depoliticized social experience; explains why nostalgic themes resonate

  • “ninja trolls originally started out as a joke...they wrote the comic book to make fun of everything big in the 80s...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles went on to be the biggest merchandise-selling product as a superhero thing from the 80s.”

    Scott Larson @ ~28:30 — Explains TMNT's cultural longevity; positions it as proven merchandising juggernaut with multi-generational appeal

  • “The ones who back off and let the creators do everything, they tend to be the best games. Think Metallica, think ACDC.”

    Scott Larson @ ~37:00 — Articulates design philosophy principle: minimal IP holder interference correlates with quality outcomes

  • “You have to know the markets, and the markets for game rooms typically are 40- to 50-year-old guys who grew up on this. And so they're going to chase the money. It's not about anything else. It's just chasing the money.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyStar Wars Home EditionproductTeenage Mutant Ninja TurtlesgameJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonKeith Elwinperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Star Wars Home Edition positioned as Stern's primary casual/Costco-tier market entry; designed to compete with Arcade1Up cabinets ($300-350) at premium ($4,000) but vs. used car comparison

    high · Josh: 'even a $4,000 pinball machine is a luxury...You can get a used car for $4,000. Not a great car, but you can get a used car for it'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Star Wars remains #1 earning location machine despite mixed critical reception; demonstrates operator preference vs. enthusiast opinion divergence

    high · Josh: 'you talk to operators it's the number one earning pinball machine out on location' despite 'very bipolar' reviews

  • ?

    design_philosophy: IP holders with hands-off approach (ACDC, Metallica) produce best games; Kevin Eastman expected maximalist involvement with TMNT aligns with quality prediction

    medium · Scott: 'The ones who back off and let the creators do everything, they tend to be the best games'; characterizes Eastman as maximalist ('whatever we can do, let's throw it in it')

  • ?

    leak_detection: TMNT pinball rumor confirmed via This Week in Pinball; community-wide knowledge of unannounced title

    high · Josh: 'one week ago, this week in pinball...they dropped the information that a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball machine is being worked on. All rumored.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Guns N' Roses pinball linked with JJP; some songs/subject matter problematic for family-friendly positioning; design philosophy debate ongoing

    medium · Josh: 'there's some music that doesn't age super well um and when you listen to it again you're thinking wow there's some things in here that i think would be challenging for all audiences now'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.204

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. You are on episode 13. I am Josh Roop, along with my co-captain as always, Scott Larson. And we're bringing you the latest and greatest news, which has actually very much picked up lately. So where should we start, Scott? I think we should start off with San Diego, although I wish I could go to San Diego Comic-Con. It doesn't seem to be happening this year. And it seems that Stern is making a big push at Comic-Con, which I think is a great move for them. I totally agree. It's awesome that they are getting a lot of the material out there that would be Comic-Con worthy too. Last year, wasn't Deadpool out before Comic-Con last year and they had it there? Yeah, I think they were certainly pushing it, and it resonates very well with the Comic-Con crowd theme. Just their characters and their cosplays and everything, I think it works really well for them. And if Stern is going to – well, any pinball company really is trying to branch out, the challenge is you need to be true to your core fans, which is great. doing things like ReplayFX, Expo, going to Texas. That's great. You're also – you tend to get the same echo chamber. You tend to get the same people who are going and seeing, and most of them will know the news whether or not they go to the show.
1:31
If you go to a show that – the San Diego Comic-Con is huge. I've never been – Comic-Cons have never really been my thing. But I appreciate that there are tons of people who are highly invested in and quite literally spend a boatload of money on their hobbies.
1:50
Yes. So if you are going to try to branch out and to really reintroduce pinball to the masses, I think that's a great place to go.
2:00
Well, and what is – so we're talking Deadpools last year. What are we getting this year? well we actually just got a leak um that we saw posted and everyone thought it was keith elwyn's game and it looks like the star wars home edition so i think it actually works out really well for the comic-con crowd i think it's more accessible for the the casual player although still the the home pin, it's still a luxury item. I know that pinball fans and people who have machines in their own house, they tend to be dismissive of these types of projects just because it's not your, it's not your location ready, uh, pinball machine. It typically doesn't have a coin door, typically doesn't have a way of operating it. Um, and in many ways people feel this is the, the ultra light version of pinball, which is true on some ways. However, it's also, if they're going to sell to different markets, you need to offer different products. And even a $4,000 pinball machine is a luxury. It's a, it's a luxury item. You can get it. You can get a used car for $4,000. Not a great car, but you can get a used car one. And if you think about the average disposable income that people have, that's a big chunk of change. So when Salt Lake was allowed to call their comic book convention Comic-Con, they were getting very big actors. They still are as fan acts. But back when it was Comic-Con, they got Chris Evans, a.k.a. Captain America, to come out, and it was $200 to meet him. you could meet him along with anthony mackie aka the falcon or hayley atwell which was captain america's love interest from the first movie she went on to get her own tv series um but at 200 bucks that's just to meet one person and get a picture and you had tons of these people he had uh ian summerhalder from vampire diaries i don't watch vampire diaries it's not my cup of tea my wife does but it's still 70 bucks to meet the dude you can't tell me these people aren't going to comic cons and not dropping five five hundred to a thousand dollars easily just meeting people i think these people that go to these comic cons are a little they got a little cash in their pocket if they walk up to a star wars pinball machine it's a little more accessible this home pin than or not home pins right this home edition we don't want to confuse it with thunderbirds but i think it's more accessible than say deadpool that's at 5800 compared to the 4,000. That's just my take on it. I mean, there's people walking around with tons of money at those things.

Limited Edition TMNT will sell out quickly due to nostalgic appeal to 40-50 year old collectors with disposable income

medium confidence · Scott: 'This will sell out faster' than other IPs; Josh agrees: 'the LE will sell out that day, I guarantee'

  • Guns N' Roses album 'Appetite for Destruction' defined glam/hair metal genre but band's subsequent catalog is average

    low confidence · Josh's music opinion: 'if you really look at their entire catalog, they have one supernova and everything else is average'

    • Josh Roop @ ~42:00 — Explains TMNT's commercial logic: classic 80s aesthetic targets affluent boomer nostalgia demographic over new IP mechanics

  • “I think it'll be classic. It'll be classic 80s...because those are the markets for game rooms typically are 40- to 50-year-old guys who grew up on this...A 40-year-old guy is going to look at that and say, that's not the Turtles I remembered.”

    Josh Roop @ ~41:00 — Predicts TMNT will use classic 1987-1995 aesthetic over newer Nickelodeon version; prioritizes established IP recognition

  • “Well, they still have Deadpool Ellie's floating around. No, this will sell out faster...Classic 80s theme, 40, 50-year-old dudes out there with money. The LE will sell out, and I guarantee you the art package will be fantastic.”

    Scott Larson @ ~44:00 — High confidence prediction that TMNT LE outperforms Deadpool LE in sellout speed; demographic/theme correlation stated

  • “I think this is a gateway pen. This is a first pin that people may buy, and they say, hey, that's kind of fun. I wonder what else is out there. This game's not going to take any risks. It's going to be very straightforward, and it's fun, but on a superficial level.”

    Josh Roop @ ~23:00 — Defines Star Wars Home Edition's market role: intentionally simplified onramp to hobby for non-enthusiasts

  • “I think there's so many different aspects to this that it's insane...it's recognizable to kids it's recognizable to adults it's a smart theme...Kevin Eastman...is still heavily involved...he's the kind of dude that's just like, whatever we can do, let's throw it in it.”

    Scott Larson @ ~35:00 — Positions TMNT as cross-generational IP with creator involvement potential; contrasts maximalist design philosophy

    • Dennis Nordman
    person
    Steve Ritchieperson
    George Gomezperson
    Spider-Man Home Editionproduct
    San Diego Comic-Conevent
    Supreme (home edition)product
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)company
    Elviragame
    Kevin Eastmanperson
    This Week in Pinballorganization
    Nickelodeoncompany
    John Borgperson
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Josh Sharpperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Slashperson
    Transformers (home edition)product
    Iron Man Classic (home edition)product
  • $

    market_signal: TMNT LE predicted to sell out faster than other recent releases (Deadpool) due to 40-50 year old nostalgic demographic with disposable income

    medium · Scott: 'This will sell out faster'; Josh: 'the LE will sell out that day, I guarantee' based on classic 80s theme and target demographics

  • $

    market_signal: Star Wars Home Edition priced at ~$4,000 vs. Deadpool at $5,800; strategic price positioning for Comic-Con casual market

    high · Josh: 'this home pin...it's more accessible than say deadpool that's at 5800 compared to the 4,000'

  • ?

    announcement: Star Wars Home Edition officially leaked/announced at Comic-Con; exact replica of Spider-Man Home Edition layout

    high · Josh: 'we actually just got a leak um that we saw posted...it looks like the star wars home edition'; confirmed layout identical to Spider-Man/Supreme

  • ?

    product_strategy: Elvira pinball extended development 3-4 years post-Dennis Nordman departure; unclear if design/timeline maintained

    high · Josh: 'that's been how many years now? Three, four years?' regarding timeline since Nordman left Stern

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern pipeline speculation: Keith Elwin (~1-2 weeks), Elvira (~October), Brian Eddy (~winter), TMNT (~spring); suggests 3-month TMNT design timeline if accurate

    low · Josh speculative timeline: 'So let's say Keith Elwins comes out in two weeks...Elvira in the fall. We have Brian Eddie's in the winter. Does that put Ninja Turtles in the spring? And if it does, that means they've only been working on it three months.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community enthusiasm for TMNT theme despite mixed personal preferences; recognition of commercial logic overriding niche enthusiast taste

    medium · Josh: 'I guess It's that the wah-wah for me is that it just does not connect with me as a theme on many levels. But again, I've said it before, not every game is for every market.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern deliberately targeting Comic-Con as expansion channel beyond traditional pinball enthusiast echo chamber (ReplayFX, Expo, Texas shows)

    high · Scott: 'you tend to get the same echo chamber...If you go to a show that – the San Diego Comic-Con is huge...if you are going to try to branch out and to really reintroduce pinball to the masses, I think that's a great place to go'

    • 4:52
    Yeah, and really, my cousin, my sister went to my cousin's house and they have a really, really nice house with all the toys and bells and whistles. I didn't go, but she came back and she said, they have a pinball machine. And I said, oh, which one is it? And she said, it's Ghostbusters. And I thought, I totally understand why they bought a Ghostbusters. The Ghostbusters is beautiful. I think it resonates with people because of the theme, and they're not going to notice all the challenges with the Ghostbusters game that we notice as, I guess, regular pinball players. so i think that having a home version with a theme that's quite accessible i think that you will get some people who will buy something for their rec room and if you if you look at other what are other rec room options the we've talked about this before um the arcade one up standalone things that you put people buy those and what they're like 300 350 dollars and so they can actually have that into their um into their game room and if you're buying and again some the the arcade guys are so dismissive of these these reproductions these emulators because it's not the real thing however i i look at that and say look i i don't want to spend a thousand dollars $1,500, $2,000 for a genuine Donkey Kong machine. Because it's, even though I think it's really cool, that takes up a big footprint. And these smaller ones, you can fit more into a smaller space and still get your giggles that way. And so it's the same type of thing that you can fit a similar product into a home market that's never intended to go to tournament play. It's never really intended to go on location, but it's someone who wants a fun thing for their home arcade. And are you telling me that people aren't interested in Star Wars memorabilia? I was just at Disneyland, and they just opened Star Wars Land, and the entire place is basically one marketer's dream for Star Wars, and there's one ride. and there is a full-on first-order Stormtrooper outfit that you can buy for over $6,000. That's a costume. Yep. And people will buy that. Not many, but enough to make it worth it.
    7:32
    Well, case in point, we've talked about this a couple times over the 13 episodes that Star Wars may not be considered one of the best pinball machines made in the last however long. it's very bipolar in the hobby but you talk to operators it's the number one earning pinball machine out on location i see more places that should have pinball machines that don't like bowling alleys we went to a bowling alley there in oram a month or two ago and there was a there was a star wars pinball machine in there and two buildings down at the nickelcade there was a star wars machine in there and you know what i'm saying like it seems like almost if you're operating you have a star wars on location because they rake in so much money so these people that are on the fence of buying a pinball machine you drop two grand off the price it suddenly becomes more appealing and a lot of these people are trying just to get one in their home aren't looking at what's the rules what's the uh code what's the you know i'm saying i mean this thing we're looking at the pictures it's a pretty much the exact replica of the spider-man slash supreme layout i mean the inserts are in the same places to it's to a t it's a home edition based off those other two games and so it's going to shoot fun it's going to be a fun playing game but if you base off the other two games so i just don't see why this is a big deal maytoast collectors it is but we're going to see Jurassic Park or Jurassic World, whatever the Keith Elwin rumored game is, we're going to see it in two months. I thought it was Golden Girls too. Golden Girls. We've talked Golden Girls. We've talked Hello Kitty.
    9:18
    Actually, you know what? Okay, this is true. Did you see Keith Elwin posted on his Facebook update that he was celebrating the moon landing? And so here's my prediction. It's going to be the sequel to Orbiter One. You know what? But that man, I bet, could take over everyone and actually make it fun. Yeah, I think he could. It would be fun. Challenge accepted. Challenge offered. I think he's going to do a hard pass on that one. We'll offer that up and let's see what he says. Yeah.
    9:51
    But I think it works. And really, there are so many things about my machine that – the machines that I have here that I don't need. I don't need a coin door. I, I, there's, there's so many things about it that I, it's, they're luxury items. I bought a topper for a few hundred bucks because I thought it looked cool. It has nothing to do with the play, the playability of the game. Um, and so if there's just ways that you can get it out into the public, it's going to be better in the long run. So it's, uh, I think that for most pinball, um, aficionados, this is not your game, but I think this is an attempt to get a bigger footprint into the masses. and I think it's a great, it's a great license. I mean, Star Wars always sells. Yep. Well, and here's the other thing too. So I've been doing some research. We've known for a couple of days that the Star Wars home additions come out, been coming out.
    10:45
    We don't honestly, us is the loser kid pinball podcast. Don't get very many tips. This is the one that's been floating around the last couple of days. So I've done, we're not, we're not exclusive. This, this kind of started leaking very easily a couple of days ago. So we're like, oh, okay. Well, all right. Yeah. And so I've been doing my research. I mean, okay, let's take Supreme out of the mix because Supreme is just an anomaly by itself. You know what I'm saying? So let's take Supreme out. So the only other home edition that's based exactly off of this is Spider-Man Home Edition. Well, there's also the Transformers. I didn't know that. So I was looking that up. You do have an Iron Man Home Edition, but it's called Iron Man Classic. But it's kind of based off of the Iron Man game. But anywho, so with Spider-Man Home Edition, they're hard to find. Like you look on Pinside, there's no historical data on sales. And when you do look for it, you have to look under the archives of like actual forum topics. Most of them have been selling anywhere from about $3,200 to $3,500. Yeah. I mean, for a fourth. That holds its value. holds its value that's for a four thousand dollar pinball machine that isn't bad you're losing more money when you buy the other games like monsters i i see those dropping down to forty five hundred dollars right now just so people get rid of them see they're all going to be home use only by definition it's going to be home use only and it's probably gonna have very low plays and so really it's not going to be beat up too much.
    12:21
    Exactly. So I, I think this is a win for Stern. I think it's, it's another product and another arrow in their quiver that they can actually get out there.
    12:34
    I think that, and even, even some of the top ranked players that actually shooting that thing is kind of fun. Like Keith was talking about, He and Josh have a great time chasing each other's scores on Supreme. And guess what? That is – it's – okay, so it's not as deep as a Keith Johnson rule set, but it doesn't matter. Is it kinetically pleasing? Do you like hitting the shot and seeing it move around? Does it fire off the dopamine receptors in your brain? That's really what matters. So –
    13:11
    Here's my guess. We're going to see the first two weeks. We're going to see people scream and yell, this sucks. This isn't our cup of tea, yada, yada, yada. And then people are going to start getting their hands on these things. They're going to start getting – their friend is going to get one. Someone they know is going to get one. I really don't think you're going to see too many pinball people get them. I think real – like people who are invested in the hobby, I think that they do just kind of pass this one by. I think it is going to be geared more toward the Costco crowd or the game room crowd.
    13:49
    I would be surprised if any serious collectors actually buy it, but I could be wrong on that. My attitude is if I have $4,000 or $5,000, I'm probably going to try to go buy a used routed game. Yeah, but my point being is – Maybe I'm wrong. I think they get out into the wild and the people that start getting their hands on them, I think they're going to start saying that it's a fun shooting game. I think – I don't know. I don't think it will be better than the Star Wars that came out, but it could be. I mean without bipolar – you don't think so? There's just – it's just bipolar reviews. I think what it is – well, I think what the – the challenge with the Star Wars is it's very nuanced. I mean the rule set is completely complex. There are some shots that are difficult, and even high-level players have a difficult time hitting some of the shots. It has certainly an interesting launch. However, this is – I still view this as kind of a gateway pin. This is a first pin that people may buy, and they say, hey, that's kind of fun. I wonder what else is out there. This game's not going to take any risks. It's going to be very straightforward, and it's fun, but on a superficial level. It's a gateway pen.
    15:15
    I agree. So let's release this bad boy and see what happens. Yeah. so in other news uh they are at the comic-con selling a limited edition uh black knight uh record and i want to get a hold of one of these bad boys i have shamelessly begged on pin side with every certain employee that i'm friends with and steve richie said i have a great way for you to get it go to the convention so so if anyone's at the convention and they hear this and they still have one of these 100 bad boys available, buy it, send it to me, and I will pay you for it.
    15:55
    He might even switch you out for a hat. Yeah, exactly. I will send you a hat and payment. I'm not looking for charity. I'm just asking for a cool blue album. You know it, man.
    16:09
    Yeah, I think it's a Booth 501. At least I think that's right. Look up Stern. If you're listening to this podcast, you can find Stern.
    16:21
    You know what? All right. Well, moving on, I want to talk about a subject now that I am super excited about that no one else seems to be talking about. And maybe it's because no one else gives a crap.
    16:32
    Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. So one week ago, this week in pinball. Yes. They dropped the information that a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball machine is being worked on. All rumored. I think it's a brilliant move. Josh you need to set your sights higher I mean man you and Jeff Rivera you can both go in on Ellie and you can have your little namaste moment I sorry Like I understood them back in the day But now when I look at Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and yes, everybody's going to hate on my 80s nostalgia. But hey, I'm a child of the 80s. And so I can look at how ridiculous some premises are. This this cartoon is based on Ninja Turtles who live in the sewer, who's a rat is a is their sensei. And I don't even know what Shredder does. Like, what's the point of Shredder besides having all these droids that for some reason these turtles try to kill? It is mind-bogglingly crazy. And there's the turtles' love interest slash human contact is a movie reporter with a camera. And then there's some weird vigilante that jumps around and starts beating things up, Casey Jones. Seriously, I do not, like, get the premise of this. it is by far the most ridiculous premise i've heard well i'll tell you why it's so brilliant you ready for this okay go ahead so ninja trolls originally started out as a joke they wrote the comic book to make fun of everything big in the 80s they wrote it because um daredevil was huge at the time uh the actual ninja clan that they fight in daredevils called the hand ninja trolls it's the foot uh x-men was huge so that's why they did the mutant Teen Titans and New Mutants, which is all teen comic books, were huge at the time. So they decided to make it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles went on to be the biggest merchandise-selling product as a superhero thing from the 80s. By 1994, it had sold $6 billion worth of merchandise.
    18:47
    So you've not only got people from the 80s that was born in the 70s, grew up through the 80s, enjoying this product. They loved it so much. It's always been around since then too. It died off a little bit, but they did have the cartoon series in the early 2000s. And then Nickelodeon bought it up and decided to resurrect the merchandise beast. They've been doing toys. They've been doing crazy stuff. They did their new series that went 10 seasons and was critically acclaimed. It had big names doing the voices. The gentleman that's from American Pie, the main actor from American Pie, did it along with Sam Gamgee, or what's his name? Frodo's best friend. Samwise Gamgee? Yes. So he did Raphael's voice. Rob Paulson, who originally did Raphael's voice in the 80s. Oh, wasn't – what's his name? One of the – Corey Haim? Or no, Corey Feldman. Wasn't he one of the turtles? Is that way back in the day? That might be way back in the day. Wow. But here's the genius of this theme, though, too, because, yes, there's tons of it. We've got the goofy, campy 80s version. You've got the comic book version that's dark. You've got the new series, which is more sci-fi fantasy. The wonderful part about this, in almost every – well, not every Ninja Turtles. Since the 2000s, there's been an episode, because the Turtles are known for jumping dimensions.
    20:14
    They end up meeting themselves from the comic books. they end up meeting themselves from the 80s so you could easily mix them all together if you want to one pinball machine i don't know the merchandise is crazy for this too i mean walk into walmart what is it that you can buy your kids t-shirts you can buy them no i i totally understand it it's it's just one of those themes that does not connect with me i i would rather have a he-man she-ra mashup than have a teenage mutant ninja turtle thing however i i brought up the arcade one-up games and they announced that they're coming back with Teenage Mutant Ninja Trolls and I actually do want to buy that one because I thought the game was fun I'm telling you dude I think there's so many different aspects to this that it's insane and I'm not even thinking of how you could set up the game I'm just thinking of how it's a smart idea to make this game because it's recognizable to kids it's recognizable to adults it's a smart theme I totally get it I guess It's that the wah-wah for me is that it just does not connect with me as a theme on many levels. But again, I've said it before, not every game is for every market. I'm just not the market for it. And the nice part is Kevin Eastman, the original creator of Ninja Turtles, one of the original creators, Kevin Eastman, is still heavily involved, even since Nickelodeon's bought it. And so I guarantee he's probably going to be involved somehow with this pinball machine. and he's the kind of dude that's just like, whatever we can do, let's throw it in it.
    21:44
    Well, those are the games that you get the best of. Think Metallica, think ACDC. Think the games where they step back and say, hey, make me a good game, as opposed to, well, we don't like the way that is. The ones who back off and let the creators do everything, they tend to be the best games. So if that is their approach, then I think they're going to get a big push for that.
    22:10
    So my question is, and I doubt anyone will have any of these answers. Do you think, because they just released the 96th, no, 93rd issue of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the comic book, they introduced a fifth Ninja Turtle. Do you think they're going to involve her in the pinball machine? No.
    22:31
    I think it'll be classic. It'll be classic 80s. It'll be kind of like Ghostbusters. When Ghostbusters came out, they didn't focus on the new team. They focused on the classic 80s theme because those are the – you have to know the markets, and the markets for game rooms typically are 40- to 50-year-old guys who grew up on this. And so they're going to chase the money. It's not about anything else. It's just chasing the money. And if you're making a product that has the five Ninja Turtles, a 40-year-old guy is going to look at that and say, that's not the Turtles I remembered. There's nothing wrong with it, but it just doesn't connect with them on the emotional level. And so it's going to be classic. If they're smart, they'll make it classic.
    23:17
    I think so too. I think it will solely be based on probably the 80s. There might be an interdimensional mode that involves the rest of the Turtles. I really don't know. I don't want to overthink it and then get myself hyped and then create this vicious cycle. So I'm just excited. I'm excited Ninja Turtles are coming out. I think it's a fantastic thing. I think it's – if done right, it could be a really great theme for all ages. I think it can certainly be campy and certainly be fun.
    23:46
    Yep. So that's my spill. I'm getting off my soapbox now. No, it's not your soapbox. It's your fan box. You are – Oh, dude. You are – take my money right now. this is the first theme I've thought, what do I sell to get myself an Ellie? And I haven't even seen the game yet. And I'm always, always of the adage, play it first, then make your decision. Yeah. So, yeah, but I don't think, I don't think this is like Iron Maiden where it sells out in less than a week on Ellie. You are wrong.
    24:19
    Do you think? You're flat out wrong. This will sell out faster. Well, they still have Deadpool Ellie's floating around. No, this will sell out faster.
    24:29
    It'll be interesting. Classic 80s theme, 40, 50-year-old dudes out there with money. The LE will sell out, and I guarantee you the art package will be fantastic.
    24:44
    Oh, I agree. I'm intrigued to see. Like I said, there's a lot of people I think that are in your camp that it's just not there. They don't mind playing it, but it's not something that blows up their skirt. Sure, but it still – yeah, it still connects us to our childhood though. It's – in many ways – and I've said this before. I got into pinball to find an escape, an escape that doesn't have to do with politics. It doesn't have to do with – it doesn't have to do with any sort of left or right or economic or religious or anything like that. It's just it's a era where people can get together and say, hey, you want to play a pinball game? Yeah, me too. OK, let's go play. And it just kind of simplifies and it's an escape for me.
    25:37
    That's what people are looking for in themes that they're looking for in escape that to a simpler time. And if that simpler time happens to be, you know, that 1985 to 1995 era when, you know, the life was stressful. Really, if you compare the stresses you had then, compare the stresses you have now, it's nothing. So I think that it will sell out if there is an LE. Well, if they do make it, the LE will sell out that day, I guarantee.
    26:05
    Yep. Well, we'll see. I don't think we'll see it for a little bit, though, because… No, I don't think so. Stern has too many things in the pipeline.
    26:15
    What do we got? We got Keith Elwes next, and we've got Elvira for whoever's making that one. Well, we know who made that one. I mean, it was Dennis Nordman before he left Stern. Do you really think they've kept it the same? I mean, that's been how many years now? Three, four years? Yeah. Why wouldn't they?
    26:34
    I don't know why it's taken so long. Maybe we'll get a story with it. Who knows? Or maybe we'll never know. I think it's just something that they always have plans for releases, and they just have to find the right time. I think they had other games that were a better option. And their goal is to, you know, Steve Ritchie said it before, my job is to sell pinball machines. That's Stern's job. Stern's job is to make pinball machines and sell pinball machines. So they're going to go with the current pinball machine that will sell the most. And given the right environment, I think that an October release for Elvira or around then. I think it works perfectly. And Dennis Nordman, you know, he did the other one. So it makes sense that you would certainly keep it as close to everything he's done. So it's, you know, theme appropriate. You're not going to have John Borg design Black Knight, Black Knight 3000 or Black Knight Swords of Rage. You're going to have Steve Ritchie do it. The other thing that intrigues me now that I'm sitting here thinking about it. so let's say Keith Elwins comes out in two weeks or a week and a half whenever we have Elvira in the fall. We have Brian Eddie's in the winter.
    27:55
    Does that put Ninja Turtles in the spring? And if it does, that means they've only been working on it three months. And Keith Elwins said they usually do 13 to 14 months. So what are we at? Like a Whitewood stage here? So what? Well, they, I'm just saying it's kind of early for, It's kind of early for the rumor. Well, it could be that they're still just kind of kicking it around as possible themes.
    28:19
    They've said that George Gomez brings out themes, and they talk about them as designers and find out the themes. I'm sure Gary and Jody are involved in those, and they figure out which themes they think will sell, and then they try to match a theme with a team. and if all those things come together. I think Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is actually a great marketing strategy because I think that you will have the fans who are still the rabid fans. I guess it's just hard for me to look at it and say, yeah, that still connects with me because it doesn't. However, I'll still play it. It's still fun.
    29:02
    Well, I think, honestly, I think it's good from an operator standpoint too. How many of these are going into arcades that are kid themes? Yeah, exactly.
    29:10
    So a split second. Do we want to talk about the Guns N' Roses leak with Slash confirming Guns N' Roses with JJP? Well, I think we've known that for longer. I don't think that's really breaking any new ground. That's been so long rumored that in Slash he has been a big pinball fan. and this is obviously something that he enjoys. So I think it works.
    29:41
    I'm curious to see what J.J.P. does with it because it feels like something that Steve Ritchie should design, really. It seems like that rock, it's that visceral, that high octane. But I'd be really curious. I mean, if that's Eric's game, then I'd be really curious to see what he's going to come up with.
    30:07
    Well, let me apologize. He did not confirm that JJP is the one making it. He just said that Guns N' Roses is the machine. I think it's just always been linked with JJP.
    30:17
    And so, yeah, it would be interesting to see what comes out. I'm intrigued. Guns N' Roses is an interesting band. They had a supernova first album, which was really the glorious sunset of the hair metal age.
    30:42
    Guns N' Roses were the biggest band on the planet, but really they started with a supernova in Appetite for Destruction. And then they went with Lies, which was kind of a mash of old and new stuff. And then they came out with Use Your Illusion and, you know, one and two. And then there was the spaghetti incident. You know, so and then that Chinese democracy that took 10 years to make. So if you really look at their entire catalog, they have one supernova and everything else is average. It really is. The thing is, though, is Appetite for Destruction defined a genre. No, no. I agree with you. That is the glorious sunset of that glam rock era. And I'm not discounting everything that they did because they were the biggest band on the planet for about four years. And then Nirvana came and everybody started wearing flannel and turning up the reverb. so I'm interested to see what they do there's I think that it's a little more challenging to do a Guns N' Roses pin that would be for the JJP everybody can buy it market it's certainly not one that I would have in my you look at the Data East one and there's very few things that would be family friendly for me anyway um or at least what do you what do you what do you do that's family friendly with that theme no you know oh yeah no and actually there's some things in there's some there's some music that doesn't age super well um and when you when you listen to it again you're thinking wow there's there's actually some things in here that i think would be challenging for all audiences now.
    32:43
    And I try not to look too much on historical moments and try to use today's interpretation of morality or today's interpretation of social justice because I think you get, there's a lot of blur, of fuzzy lines that you get to because I'm hoping that in 30 years, when I'm in my 70s and people look back on this time, they're going to have similar things. And so I think you kind of look back and say, yeah, you can, I guess, appreciate it for what it is, but you can also say it's not really something I want to do now.
    33:29
    There's a lot of things like that. You can look at all of basically Motley Crue's entire catalog. you could probably say that about.
    33:39
    There's a lot of those songs where you're like, I don't think those lyrics fly today. But I think Motley Crue would make a great pin.
    33:50
    I really do. Well, and when I was going back through, I felt like I owed it, since I loved music so much, I owed it to listen to those classic albums And I listened to Guns N Roses Appetite for Destruction And the first time through I thought this is the reason they said sex drugs in rock and roll Oh, no, absolutely. That album. No, it is. They are. It is a high octane ride. And I, I was talking to one of my friends at work and she was talking about getting, cause guns and roses are coming to Utah this fall. And she was talking about bringing the whole family in. And, and I said, yeah, I'd be really interested to see you stand next to your daughter when they start singing It's So Easy.
    34:35
    But, you know, hey, again. My Michelle? Yeah, no, I know. But however, she watches Game of Thrones with her entire family. It's a family affair. So she just kind of laughed and she's like, oh, yeah, no. Yeah, my kids are raised by wolves and they know it. So, yeah, again, it's choosing your audience. So I think that it's – I think the Guns N' Roses pin, there is certainly enough nostalgia that people will still buy it. Again, you're catering to 40s and 50-year-old guys who have some disposable income now and have their heyday, their nostalgia time. Their nostalgia wheelhouse is the 80s right now.
    35:18
    Well, and this brings up another interesting point. If you were joining us on the Flippin' Out stream on Monday, one of the questions that was brought up, do you think that the industry is now at a point that they couldn't make a porno pinball machine like a Playboy? And the argument was, is Playboy isn't porn and da-da-da-da-da. But I'm like, I think we're way past that. Like that's, I don't even think that's a question that we make those kind of pinball machines. You know what I'm saying? I think it would be pretty, I think it would be pretty tone deaf in today's environment.
    35:59
    I totally agree. We'll look at Lucy. Yeah. I think when you look at it, it's, I know there's markets for it.
    36:10
    There's markets for, you know, strip clubs and those type of things out there. Um, I don't really think that it's as mainstream as, uh, I think that you, you need to look at your brand. And as Gary said, many times on, uh, the interview with Martin, they're trying to make Stern a lifestyle brand. And so I don't think that they would want to merge a Stern lifestyle brand with a Playboy lifestyle brand. And it really is a different market. Yes, there's certainly going to be some overlap. Obviously, sex sells. It has been proven time and time again. But that stereotype of – I guess I really – I'm trying not to get too much into social justice warrior discussions because that's not really my thing. And I know other podcasts feel more – yeah, and they feel more impassioned about that, and that's fine. Pick your lane and embrace it. I guess I will say that in today's environment, I would think a Playboy theme would come across as an empowered man with a female who's used as more of a sex object than a partner.
    37:43
    And I think that that would really sound very tone deaf in today's environment. um you know it's uh it's obvious that that type of entertainment is still out there and even i would say more aggressive versions of that type of entertainment with video streaming now than certainly was ever um envisioned by the original founders of playboy but i just again i don't think that with all the other options for themes out there why would you ever consider that I don't know and that's why I thought it was an interesting question yeah I just I don't like I think that that stuff yeah Europe certainly has a different view of sexuality and so maybe it would fly over there but I just I do not see that as being something that flies over here yeah so it wouldn't be let's move on I guess I'll put it that way Yeah.
    38:48
    So let's move on from that subject now. Yeah. Yeah, that took a few left turns in there. Yeah, I know. Welcome to my brain. Yeah. That stream of consciousness. So next on my notes, we've got Dutch Pinball. And Yop's out. I hope his condition gets better. but it sounds like Barry's going to go ahead and go on, press on they lost the court case but it sounds like he's still going to try to make it work with ARA they're going to try to do something that would eliminate the way that the court stuff went but he's asking 12-5 for the remaining 40 or ish, I don't know, big Lebowskis and And my understanding is these wouldn't go to the pre-order people, the one that backed it. It would go to people that want to pay the $12,500 so that that way they could build more big Lebowskis to give to the pre-order people.
    39:52
    That doesn't make any sense to me. Oh, see, it actually does make sense to me because they're broke. So they can either fold up shop or they can sell the machines, get some revenue, and then they can continue to simultaneously sell new machines and build the old machines. So they're basically building new revenue while clearing out old debt. It really is the only way forward. I'm doubtful that this will do anything I think that people have felt so the whole thing on this project has turned sour and I think that even people who their dream theme is the Big Lebowski maybe now I will say that Joe on Head to Head, Joe's a top 50 player and he said the game shoots fantastically so is it possible that people will still go all in and buy this because it is a well designed game maybe I don't see anybody giving them a dime without having the machine ready and with a certified packing invoice because there's no goodwill whatsoever and there's no faith in the company so the chance of i think it is a hail mary and the last opportunity for them to actually make anything of this company i'm doubtful it'll do anything yeah i agree i i just i don't think there's enough faith there from anyone in the community yeah and put their money especially that much money right now into it yeah the i think the only way to resurrect a bad situation like that is really what um what deep root's doing in that i mean john papaduke went through a similar flame war with just him not even making a game. I mean, at least Big Glavowski made a game, right?
    42:14
    With Magic Girl, he didn't even get to a functional Whitewood. I mean, that's how bad it was. And with Deep Root buying, basically coming in and hiring him, but knowing that would be a firestorm, and so giving people the option of fulfilling a game through Deep Root, I see that as the only way of resurrecting it. And so unless Dutch pinball has a similar sort of angel investor that comes in and helps them resurrect it, there's no chance they're ever going to they're ever going to resurrect their reputation.
    42:54
    It feels like a relationship that's turned sour and and you went through a divorce and now you're you're you're texting your ex and saying, hey, you want to get back together? I think that's unlikely to be long-term.
    43:12
    I agree. I wish them the best. I hope. Yeah. Well, I really do wish them the best, and I hope that something happens out of it. And I think that it's never a good thing when a pinball company goes belly up. I think it's always good if there are niches for multiple manufacturers because I think they all drive each other to make a better product. So I wish them the best. I'm doubtful.
    43:44
    Well, speaking of texting your ex, I'm moving on because this story just has gotten so old to me with Dutch Pinball. But moving on, texting your ex. We want to congratulate head-to-head on their 100th episode, and Ryan was back. And it was kind of funny because they joked that he was the ex-girlfriend coming back.
    44:05
    But hey, they made it work. It was like stepmom and biological mom and dad all getting together to give the best Christmas ever to us kids. Well, yeah. No, that's all. I mean, really, we know that Ryan kind of stepped away because I think that this is me projecting. I think he enjoyed the podcast, but with anything, there's drama. And just as I said, why I get into pinball is to avoid drama, flame wars, and I'm just trying to have a good time. I think that it was difficult for Ryan to do that and do the podcast at the same time. And so I really with with Ryan's blessing, Martin transitioned to Joe, which I think is a great it's a great transition. Ryan certainly always welcome back. And it's a great podcast that we're still trying to chase their example because they do such a great job. I'm not nearly as funny as Ryan and I'm not nearly as funny as Martin.
    45:06
    So I agree. Well, not that you're not as funny as I agree with what you've said about their podcast. Yeah, and really, I wanted so badly to enter in for the Penn Stadium Lights, but I just didn't feel that I could do it because I was like, oh, because I know Martin, and I felt that if my name was drawn, I'd think, oh, I kind of stuffed the ballot, even though I didn't. But anyway, congratulations to their stuffed balloter.
    45:34
    It was awesome. Yeah. And also, congratulations, guys, on getting that Gary Stern interview. That was fantastic. I don't think anyone else in this industry has done anything that epic, in my opinion. And it just it was great. You know, they got stuff out of him instead of the typical Gary Stern interview responses. It was a great one. I thought that guy kind of turned into a drinking game every time he talked about Stern being a lifestyle brand.
    46:02
    But, yeah, hey, you know, that's Gary's move. Gary's move is to try to monetize and work things forward. And I think it certainly showed in his mind that ultimately he's a business guy who's trying to move product. And that's the whole point of keeping the line going. So they're the ones who are currently the most successful at it.
    46:25
    So my question to you is I know that a lot of people have said that head-to-head has kind of sloped off. But I want to do a prediction right now.
    46:34
    Let's talk Twippies. It's July. I mean we're still six months away, right? I still think Head to Head is a top contender along with the others for this year's tournament. Yeah, I would put them as the one to beat. They're the ones who seem to do – one, they're the most consistent podcast that I listen to, and they're the ones who – they really have solid takes on things. And I enjoy listening to them. There's so many podcasts out there, including ours. so um i i think that they are the um they're the go-to right now uh i that i i feel when i'm thinking oh what do i want to listen to um that's not taking away from any of the other podcasts i listen to um i it just seems that head-to-head's doing something on a it's a more entertaining but educational level. I don't know how else to describe it. Yep.
    47:34
    I agree. Well, and I just think that there is a lot of quality podcasts out there. I really wonder what is going to happen with, because one of the ones that have hit the radar that's done fantastic this year is this weekend pinballs personal podcast. But how does that work with a Twippy? Like, is there going to be controversy surrounding that? I mean, I don't, It's something we don't worry about until we get to that bridge. I don't know. It's such a small thing. This is just people voting. I really – I can't see it being a big deal on any level.
    48:11
    I'm sure it feels good if you win one, and I guarantee we are not going to win one. But I think that it's – I'm not even – yeah.
    48:22
    Yeah, but you know what I mean. I don't, is it, is it possible that man, if, if you're complaining that a podcast that's getting zero revenue and zero money other than maybe a hundred dollars Patreon, um, and they stuffed the ballot for, uh, basically, uh, I won't say a fake award, but just a, Hey, a popularity contest. No, I don't see it being a big deal.
    48:48
    Yeah. Good point. So it's gonna be interesting. We'll see what happens. You know, words usually fly when we get to that time of the season, and we haven't been a part of those words. We've only been going since January. No. Yeah.
    49:02
    We'll see. It'll be interesting, as it always is. Yeah, I think so. Well, before we get going, we have got these sweet freaking hats, and I want to give away one. We do have them now in small slash medium or in large slash extra large. if you did see dead flip was wearing our hat and it looked very snug and perfect on his head he said if it's great and he he loves it um we also sent one off to steve ritchie and to keith ellen and they're both loving theirs as well we've got theirs emails back saying they're awesome um but anywho enough about that let's let's give one of these bad boys away so i was talking to scott before the podcast of how we're going to do this.
    49:47
    Anyone that has liked our page or does like our page in the next two weeks will be automatically entered in to the contest. We will only mail these to the 48 states. I don't know what it is to ship it to. We'll look at Alaska and Hawaii. I don't know.
    50:09
    We'll check out shipping rates. If it costs more than $20. bucks yeah if it costs more than 20 bucks sorry you're not getting a hat uh yeah we we looked at shipping one to australia and 110 is not our cup of tea so but if you're willing to pay the shipping we'll go that far how about that if you if you're willing to pay the shipping we will ship you the hat or if if you win it and you do live in australia but you're going to be here for like pinberg or whatever we'll see what we can do so we'll figure it out you know what how about this we'll give you we'll give you a hat and shipping up to 20 dollars okay sounds like a plan so like our page they'll give you one entry if you leave us a review that will give you another entry the thing with the reviews though it's hard to tell like on Apple because it's just a star thing and it doesn't actually leave a name next to it so if you will like send us a screenshot to the loser kid pinball podcast at gmail just saying Hey here my picture I did the review Awesome And then yeah So every, every like every review is an entry. So easy enough. You know, it sounds good. And I, I would actually even prioritize and say that if you've liked it, you get one. If you give us a review, you get two more. So you get three for your efforts and obviously five stars work, but you know what? This is a free country and do whatever your heart dictates.
    51:39
    I will just put this out. We, we, uh, we strive to put out a good product. I know that we, I will tell you what, I am impressed with the quality of some of the other podcasts. We're definitely not to their standard, but we're doing what we love. And if you love what we're doing and give us five stars. Simple as that.
    51:57
    So. And if you have suggestions, go ahead and send them in. Josh reads them all. I don't have to read them.
    52:06
    And we're happy to hear your comments, questions, concerns, compliments, constructive criticism, whatever it is. Suggestions. We've had a couple people write. Yeah. And so I just want to give a quick shout out to special when lit they did their one year anniversary episode just a couple episodes back uh fantastic first season they're calling it season one and now they're on season two fantastic job boys you guys are doing great ken and bill you're killing it um there's another podcast raising the standard man between them and this week in pinball and head to head we're just it it's insane for the rest of us to live up to that so you guys are doing great uh also we're We're all chasing.
    52:50
    We are all chasing. Another couple podcasts that have come out, Lauren Gray with the Backbox Pinball Podcast. If you haven't checked her out, it's very awesome. All Ladies Podcast. She's the host, and then she interviews female co-hosts. So good interview slash pinball podcast. Check it out.
    53:11
    I think that's all I had on my plate. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about? Yeah. Oh, let's talk about the collection. You were talking about different things. So actually, I had an impulse sell today, and I actually have a Terminator that I'm looking at selling, and it's your typical Terminator. It's functional. It's been routed. But it's been – my friend's been pin-setting it for a while, and I figured, you know what? It's time to sell that and find a new home for it. It's not going to come back into my collection. so I don't know I guess I'm looking at moving that along I have a friend who I bought a lot of my really nice pins from he is the one who said he was interested in the Terminator and then he said he's like yeah it's and it's it's routed so it's not that home use only which I don't know of any Terminator that would be but he said yeah you should sell me your X-Men And I actually bought it from him, so he knows it's the nicest X-Men you'll ever see. It has a lot of mods, and it looks really cool. And I thought, you know what? I have Tron, and I have X-Men, and they're very similar games. And there are other games that I'd like to try. So I said, sure, go ahead.
    54:31
    So I'm going to be moving that on. Nice. Yeah. You know, I wasn't really anticipating. I think it's a beautiful game. I do love the look of the game, but I find I just don't play it as much. And so maybe it's time to find another home and maybe he buys it for a while and maybe I buy it back from him. I don't know.
    54:50
    I did. There was a on the page here. There was a there was a laser war that came up. So I said it was functional. So I bought it. It was four hundred dollars. And of course, it's not. So I'm actually going to take that up to a pinball – like the pinball mechanic who's here locally. He does high-quality work, and I try to make sure I keep him – I don't really have time to work on a lot of these big issues. I can do small issues.
    55:26
    But having him – taking it up to him and say, hey, go over it, figure it out. And so that laser war, which is – it's really a fantastically bad art package from the late 70s. It really is. It's a lady with really fierce eye shadow.
    55:51
    And so I'll be doing that. And there's a genie that Jeff Rivera has moved on, and so that will spend some time here. So I don't really mix up my collection that much. So I was a little surprised that I'm selling two games and getting two cheaper ones that just at least to try for a while and probably move those on to.
    56:14
    I feel that I've had my collection long enough that I feel that I'm OK to to pin around a little bit to buy and sell games. I was always surprised that people were able to buy and sell games. And I think I've reached that point where I said, you know what?
    56:32
    You don't have to buy something and have it forever. It just doesn't – my attitude is if you have that grail pen, it's still out there. It's not like it's unobtainable. You will eventually find someone who has it in their home collection and says, yeah, okay, it's time to move that on. And then you'll be able to pick it up. So, yeah, that's finding a new home, and I actually have a really nice Twilight Zone that's been in my garage, sadly, for a year. And so that will make its way downstairs. I know it's pathetic, right?
    57:07
    No, it's not too bad, man. Yeah. Actually, that reminds me. I've got a pinball machine that's been in my garage for five years. Yeah, well, that is your – yeah. Yeah, actually, that reminds me. I should probably go and change the batteries on it.
    57:19
    So, yeah. so uh what about you uh my collections pretty much stayed the same i'm trying the problem is it's the hot time of the season so i'm working like crazy amounts of overtime right now um so i've barely even got to turn on my pinball machines but i had an offer someone knew that i've been looking for wizard of oz for forever now and i just it kills me because right now i just can't um if it was any other time in my life we're selling my home or building a new home We've bought land. I mean, we're just, we're trying to figure out where to store the four I have. And it's like, well, how the crap are we going to store that one on top of all of it? And so it's just, what do you do? And so, yeah. here's my take and I told you before you mentioned it and I said well let me give you my take on the podcast my take is that pin's going to be out there not really the best use of your money right now so I would move on and you could even consider selling one or two of your games if you need the money there if you remember Don from you know Don and Jeff with the original pinball podcast. He had a Wizard of Oz and he finally sold it so he can do some landscaping. So I think that you're probably going to be in that same boat where building a house is way more expensive than you think.
    58:49
    Well, and here's the other big thing too. And don't tell my wife I told you guys this. She's not pregnant. I am deathly afraid to get this thing in my collection. No, no, no. I'm deathly afraid to get this in my collection and then it never is allowed to leave. like don't get me wrong i enjoy wizard of oz it's a fantastic game it's pretty fun but i get in moods sometimes i'm like i'm done with it i'm ready to move on i don't think i'll be allowed to move on from this one so yeah that's kind of your wife's grail pen right so i would hold off a little bit on that yeah i i have uh my wife has a well there's three of my pins that she that she said you can't sell um one's wizard of oz one is um attack from mars oh actually i guess there's four uh attack from mars wizard of oz medieval madness and stern pirates of the caribbean so those are her games that she likes to play and so um yeah those aren't moving so i i have to see and i'd be i'd be fine with that yeah but with with limited space right now, I don't want to be taking up that space.
    59:58
    As soon as we get the house built, the basement's ready, I'd be totally fine with throwing a Woz down there. Yeah, there's a few games where I would love to have at some point.
    60:07
    You know, Wizard of Oz, or not Wizard of Oz, Lord of the Rings is one of those. I have a good friend who lives two miles away who is one of my partners at work, and he's the one that has the amazing Bally Williams collection. So he has a beautiful one, so I can always play that. And so I thought there's no point in me getting one right now. We don't need to have matching sets of everything. We already have about four that – well, I guess three. We have Medieval Madness. We have Attack from Mars. And for a while he had Pirates of the Caribbean. But other than that, we have pretty different collections. So I would like to – I don't know. I'm not sure where I'll go next, but I think that it'll be nice to kind of mix it up a little bit.
    60:59
    I agree. Well, and the thing, honestly, the pinball machines I'm looking for right now, I do want an early stern. I'm looking at – Hey, how about a laser war after I fix it up?
    61:09
    I'm good. I don't want a laser war. I want like a meteor. or we just recently had the Salt Lake Gaming Con, and someone had a Quicksilver there, which I don't want a Quicksilver, because if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'm going to get a different pinball machine. Get a new one. But they had a Quicksilver there. Yeah. They had a Stars there.
    61:28
    Those games play fantastically. I got addicted. It was one of those things where it's just like one more game, one more game. And so I really think I have a gentleman that I know that he collects the classic sterns and stuff like that. He's got a meteor he's going to get rid of soon. He said. I'll be the first person on his list. Okay.
    61:50
    I can justify the $800. I would totally buy that too. Set it up at my parents. Have someone pin set it or something. You know what I'm saying. That's one that we'll have to pass around a little bit because I want to spend some time with meteor too. I wouldn't mind getting a SARS. I wouldn't mind getting a meteor. even some of the other wide ones I'm really looking forward to getting the Genie just because it's a fun game I know it's beautiful it's fun and it's just different so I really liked having that variety in my collection so I'm looking forward to that I agree yeah I think that pretty much wraps it up for what we were talking about quick preview we're going to have Bowen on here soon. He's been in Utah. We've been trying to get with him to do a recording. It's just been chaos for all of us, but we're going to get him on.
    62:49
    We've talked to some other people head-to-head. We're probably going to get them on here soon, too. Yeah, we've got a couple more in the pipeline that we're excited about. We don't want to be strictly interview, but we enjoy having them on the other guys and just BSing. We had so much good response with the Keith L1 interview. It's like, why not? Yeah, I think it's nice to be able to at least pick their brains. You and I have a different approach to asking some questions than other people.
    63:19
    It's mainly questions that I've listened to the other interviews, and I think those are all great, and you guys filled up most of the, I guess, the common questions. And so I've been able to think, well, what else is out there? So it's been really fun to talk to some of these legends that they're willing to come on and talk with us. And so we've really appreciated that.
    63:42
    And yeah, I'm really looking forward to talking to Bowen and talk about him being involved with Replay and Pinberg. And I'm curious to find out the challenges of him.
    63:58
    He's a top-level player and I would argue elite. since right now there's no Papa competition. Does he feel conflicted that Pinnberg is the elite competition that it's his, so he can't actually compete in it? I don't know. I'm just curious about that. If you have any other questions that you want to submit and have us talk about with him, I'm sure he would love to answer those. He's certainly always been friendly to us even when we were new in the new into the hobby and send him a message occasionally until I finally actually got the courage to ask him to be a friend on Facebook.
    64:43
    He's always responded and it's been nice to me. Anyway, if you guys have anything else to question us, we would love to pass it on.
    64:53
    Yeah, for sure. And remember, you can send us emails at loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com. honestly one of the quickest ways to get our responses through Facebook we do now have an Instagram I don't know what we're going to post but it seems like more people are following us on Instagram than we are on Facebook so whatever works and you don't have to also don't have to win a you don't have to win a hat if you want one we actually bought some extras and we will sell them we're basically just selling them for price so if you want them we'd love to sell them and send them out to you. So I think they're actually great looking hats. And Josh did a great job of choosing the high quality hats. I never liked the ones that, when I saw Stern's hat, the original one, I thought, I'm not really that interested in it because it looked kind of like a cheaper trucker hat. And then I just spontaneously bought one at the Denver show and I love it. It's a great hat. And Josh picked out one that was similar quality. So I really like wearing it. well like it's i don't know if you guys have read our post on it but it is the new era hats it's like what the all the professional sports teams use for their product um it's just a nice comfortable hat everyone that's wore it loves it so if you want one hit us up if you want to wait till we're in person if you want to come to one of the shows that we hit up you can wait till then too so um and i think we'll be doing um we'll do some more stuff in the future too besides hats but that's what we're going with right now we figured it's something different everyone's just doing t-shirts we'll do yeah i think i think hats is something you can wear all the time t-shirts is something you wear uh you know a couple times a year especially when you're exercising and your actual t-shirts are um the ones you exercise in are dirty possibly or it's what you wear to a pinball event because it says pinball on it Well, you represent, man, you represent. Exactly. So, uh, one last thing, uh, not that anyone has said that we've offended them, but if, if we have said something that you feel like we've stepped on your toes and whatnot, just reach out to us. Uh, nothing we've said is with the intent to offend or to, uh, hurt your feelings. I don't know. We, our goal is a low drama pinball podcast. Other people may, may want more in their life. This is not why I'm doing this. So, yeah. So we want to be here for the pure enjoyment of pinball. Um, and like I said, there's a lot, there, there is a lot of, uh, yeah, we'll just leave it at that. I'm not going to go any further. Cause if I go any further, I'll probably step on some toes. So, so once again, reach out to us, loser kid, pinball podcast at gmail.com, Facebook, Instagram, SoundCloud, whatever your heart's desire. And don't forget to enter that contest by hitting the like button at Facebook and sending a review via Facebook or whatever podcast app you use to listen to us. Thanks for listening to us. We really appreciate it. It's been a fun ride so far, and we're really like – Okay. See you soon.
    68:04
    All right. See you later, man.