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Ep 73 - See More Without The Score

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·46m 38s·analyzed·Oct 9, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Willy Wonka code updates, Star Wars comic reskin, Franchi leaves Stern, industry speculation.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discuss recent pinball industry developments including Jersey Jack's substantial code update to Willy Wonka with a new Wonka Bar Ransom mode, Stern's new Star Wars comic book art edition by Randy Martinez, American Pinball's upcoming Expo presence and new Oktoberfest code updates, and Chris Franchi's departure from Stern Pinball to pursue artwork opportunities with multiple companies. The hosts debate game difficulty settings and accessibility versus discovery, and speculate about Franchi's next moves in the industry.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack released a substantial code update to Willy Wonka (v1.25) that adds a new mode called 'Wonka Bar Ransom' and difficulty settings for collecting Wonka Bars

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell discussing Joe Katz's update, confirmed via message exchange with Joe Katz

  • The Wonka Bar Ransom mode is based on a scene from the movie where the wife gets a ransom call for her box of Wonka Bars in exchange for her husband's life

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell explaining Joe Katz's design intent

  • Stern released a new Star Wars comic edition with artwork by Randy Martinez featuring 300+ drawings and updated colors

    high confidence · George Gomez quote in industry report

  • Chris Franchi has stepped away from Stern Pinball and will not be returning, but is returning to pinball art for other companies

    high confidence · Chris Franchi Facebook post dated September 28th

  • American Pinball's new Oktoberfest code is in beta testing with updates including new tent mode timer, animations, music, callouts, and lighting improvements

    high confidence · Joe Schober statement via Kaz, Special When Lit American Pinball correspondent

  • Joe Schober said there will not be a five-month gap between game three announcement and shipping, unlike the Oktoberfest release timeline

    high confidence · Joe Schober quote via Kaz

  • Randy Martinez generated over 300 drawings for Star Wars comic artwork

    high confidence · George Gomez quote

  • Stern currently has six new pinball artists (Randy Martinez, Kevin O'Connor, Zombie Yeti, Johnny Crap, Greg Freras) working on recent releases

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell enumerating recent Stern artwork credits

  • Bill Webb's preference is to see more of the game and experience modes rather than chase high scores

    high confidence · Bill Webb's direct statement during show discussion

Notable Quotes

  • “What I'm really proud of on this next game is the amount of actual physical things that the ball is actually going to do. It's not just it's not a boring layout, we'll just put it that way.”

    Scott Denisi @ Spooky Pinball Update segment — Designer insight into next Spooky game emphasizing physical playfield design over simple layouts

  • “I'm a big advocate of that because I don't like people locked into stuff. I want people to enjoy the game and not have to like timeout modes.”

    Scott Denisi @ Spooky Pinball Update segment — Design philosophy about avoiding restrictive mode locks to maximize player enjoyment

  • “When game number three is announced, there will not be a five-month gap between reveal and game shipping to customers as there was with Oktoberfest.”

    Joe Schober @ American Pinball correspondent segment — Operational commitment to faster turnaround between announcement and delivery for future games

  • “We've had great success with all of the Star Wars products, and we thought that it'd be fun to extend the line by adding a radically different look that takes us back to that time.”

    George Gomez @ Stern Pinball update segment — Stern's strategic approach to leveraging successful IP with new art directions

  • “Very excited to share some pinball news in the coming weeks. I've decided to step away from Stern pinball and I will not be returning. I'm making a return to pinball art for other companies and lots of things are happening.”

    Chris Franchi @ Facebook post, September 28th — Official announcement of departure from Stern and pivot to multi-company work

  • “I'd rather kind of get to a wizard mode and not blow up the game score-wise versus blow up the score and not really see a lot of the game. Like, I like to experience the game.”

    Bill Webb @ Mid-show discussion — Core philosophy on game experience preferences emphasizing content discovery over competitive scoring

  • “I don't like knowing that I can make something easier in a machine because then I feel like I'll be more apt to do it.”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonJoe KatzpersonScott DenisipersonGeorge GomezpersonRandy MartinezpersonChris FranchipersonJoe SchoberpersonBob Stevlikperson

Signals

  • ?

    code_update: Jersey Jack released v1.25 of Willy Wonka with new Wonka Bar Ransom mode and difficulty settings, representing significant post-launch content expansion

    high · Joe Katz message confirmation; mode based on movie scene; difficulty settings for Wonka Bar collection

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern executing reskin strategy with Star Wars comic edition using different artist (Randy Martinez) to extend product line and appeal to new audience segments

    high · George Gomez quote about extending Star Wars line; new art package with different aesthetic; comparison to Spider-Man comic vault strategy

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Chris Franchi departing from Stern Pinball after significant tenure as lead artist; transitioning to multi-company freelance model

    high · Chris Franchi Facebook post September 28; explicit statement 'will not be returning'; mention of podcast appearance to detail reasons

  • $

    market_signal: Stern expanding artist roster significantly with six new artists in recent releases (Randy Martinez, Kevin O'Connor, Zombie Yeti, Johnny Crap, Greg Freras) suggesting move away from single artist bottleneck

    high · Ken's enumeration of recent Stern artwork credits; George Gomez statement about building 'powerful cadre of art talent'

  • ?

    operational_signal: American Pinball committing to faster development cycles, pledging no five-month gap between game three announcement and customer shipping

    high · Joe Schober quote via correspondent: 'there will not be a five-month gap between reveal and game shipping'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.140

0:00
Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? Welcome. It's episode 73 of the special When Lit Pinball Podcast. My name's Ken Cromwell. I am Bill Webb. Bill, we've got a lot to go over today. It's fun. We're back in the action, and it might be the last time we see you for a little bit since you're leaving the show. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see, man. We're going to try. 48 hours from birthing of baby Bill. Dude, I think we're like 36. I was surprised I got out of the house, man. I actually, you were surprised you got out. I was surprised you got out of the house. I literally recorded a whole episode by myself, episode 73, because I didn't think you were going to be here until later for the stream. And then you're like, I'll be there at 545. I was like, so I have 42 minutes of the episode in the can when I was thanking Lermods and everybody for listening in when you called in. It was like right after drain it or save it. Maybe we'll throw some of that in on this. You know what? Maybe we'll release it as a bonus content for the patrons that support us via Patreon. Just to throw it out there because it can't just go by itself. No. It's got to be known. In any event, I do want to mention this. We're going to be giving away a set of the Pinball Life charity open house tickets, which is going to take place on Friday before Expo. So if you missed out on that, those tickets went on sale and sold out very, very quickly. We do have a pair of tickets. Listen throughout the show. We're going to tell you how you can win them. And the only thing is you need to physically come pick them up for me. I'm not shipping these. And then somebody not being able to use them, that would upset me. So at some point, if you want to qualify for this, you're going to need to be able to come see me before Expo. And I'll be available Thursday at Expo if you want to come meet me at Expo and pick them up for Friday. Because if you don't show up, guess what? We're going to give them away to somebody else. Yep. So I just don't want to be in that predicament. But anyways, let's get into the pinball news.
1:57
Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz. Hello and welcome to this week's spooky pinball update with Dr. John. As per last week, I was chained to Scott Denisey and tried to tease out some information about his next game, which I'm still not sure whether it is or not has been labelled as Scott Denise's haunted house party. The name is so well received it even seems to have been used by another pinball manufacturer for their next game. But this is what Scott had to say about his latest offering that's coming up. What I'm really proud of on this next game is the amount of actual physical things that the ball is actually going to do. it's not just it's not a boring layout we'll just put it that way but TNA's not boring either to me that's a very interesting layout so take that as you will and when I mentioned to Scott what Boehm was saying about programming for the next game and the mode based variety this is what he said in Alice Cooper when you're in the monster you're locked into that mode whereas in the next couple of games he's making sure that even though you will be in something there's still other things you can do at the same time. Yes, I'm a big advocate of that because I don't like people locked into stuff. I want people to enjoy the game and not have to like timeout modes, you know. So there you go. I want to thank Scott for his time with this update information and I'm really looking forward to this next release towards the end of the year. Catch you all next week. Hey, this is Kaz, your special when lit American Pinball correspondent. I spoke with Dan who informed me that the team from American Pinball will have a booth at Expo with Oktoberfest and Houdini Machines. Josh Kugler and Joe Schober will also be having a seminar.

  • Scott Denisi's next Spooky game features a significant amount of actual physical things the ball will do and mode-based variety with simultaneous action

    medium confidence · Scott Denisi interview excerpt via Dr. John Spooky update segment

    • Ken Cromwell @ Willy Wonka code discussion — Perspective on how difficulty settings affect player self-imposed challenge and discovery satisfaction

  • “We've been on Chris Franchi watch for months, it seems like, and not really knowing where his career was going to take him within pinball.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Chris Franchi departure discussion — Reflects ongoing community speculation about Franchi's career trajectory

  • “I almost wonder if utilizing in-house movie graphics makes sense. Like, I don't know if I want to see that redrawn.”

    Bill Webb @ Speculation about Chris Franchi and Toy Story at JJP — Perspective on appropriateness of hand-drawn artwork versus existing licensed animation assets

  • “He's a big teddy bear and he is a big teddy bear. I mean, he's a nice guy, real nice. He's just he's an artist he expressed himself.”

    Bill Webb @ Final Chris Franchi discussion — Personal characterization of Franchi as fundamentally good-natured despite communication style differences

    • Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factorygame
    Star Wars (Stern)game
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
    Pinball Life Charity Open Houseevent
    Kevin O'Connorperson
    Greg Frerasperson
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Scott Denisi emphasizing non-restrictive mode design where players can engage in simultaneous activities rather than locked-in timed modes, reflecting design trend toward player agency

    medium · Scott Denisi quote: 'I'm a big advocate of that because I don't like people locked into stuff'; comparison to Alice Cooper design philosophy

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community divided on game difficulty settings: some favor accessibility for new/casual players while traditionalists prefer challenge-based discovery and achievement feeling

    high · Lengthy host debate about Willy Wonka difficulty settings; Ken's preference for organic difficulty vs. Bill's pragmatism about family play; mention of poll question

  • ?

    content_signal: Chris Franchi planning in-depth podcast appearance to explain Stern departure and future direction, creating anticipation in community

    high · Chris Franchi Facebook post: 'An in-depth podcast appearance will be coming up very soon that will fill in all the blanks'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Scott Denisi's upcoming Spooky game emphasizing substantial physical playfield action as core design element, moving away from simple layouts

    medium · Scott Denisi quote: 'amount of actual physical things that the ball is actually going to do. It's not just it's not a boring layout'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Chris Franchi's departure and pivot to multi-company freelance model reflects possible broader industry trend where artists serve multiple manufacturers due to limited annual production per company

    medium · Ken's analysis that manufacturers produce 1-2 games/year, making single-company employment inefficient for artists; Franchi explicitly mentions 'companies' plural

  • ?

    event_signal: Chicago Pinball Expo positioned as major announcement venue with American Pinball bringing booth, seminars, and factory tours; expected to be significant industry showcase event

    high · American Pinball correspondent confirms booth setup, Josh Kugler/Joe Schober seminar, Dan's involvement in tours and presence

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Host discussion reveals shift in player priorities from high-score competition toward mode progression and game story experience, particularly among casual/home players

    medium · Bill and Ken both favor seeing modes over high scores; mention of poll gauging player preferences; discussion of teaching mechanics to new players

    • 3:55
    Dan will be at the show and also involved with tours at the factory. Joe Schober let me know that the new Oktoberfest code is being beta tested. It's going to have additional updates and enhancements for Oktoberfest. There will be new tent mode timer, new animations, music, callouts, and additional lighting improvements. He called it putting the icing on the cake, and it should be released soon. He's also actively working on code for game number three, and he said, quote, when game number three is announced, there will not be a five-month gap between reveal and game shipping to customers as there was with Oktoberfest. I'm also going to be attending Chicago Pinball Expo this year, and I'm excited. Hope to see you there. Have fun playing pinball. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kosner. Jersey Jack Pinball released a substantial code update to Willy Wonka Pinball, and I spoke with Joe Katz today. Joe said that, again, this is not your typical bug fixes. It is a substantial code update that actually adds a new mode to the game. In addition, you now have a difficulty setting for those that are trying to acquire those golden tickets. So again, two substantial changes to the code in an effort to make that a little bit more fun for everybody else. Nice. Stern Pinball released the new edition of Star Wars with their comic edition, and I spoke with George Gomez today. And George basically says, we've had great success with all of the Star Wars products, and we thought that it'd be fun to extend the line by adding a radically different look that takes us back to that time. We liked the look of the comics, but we thought that we could bring them up to date while retaining the feel of the old. Randy Martinez became the obvious choice when we tested artists with the licensor. He generated over 300 drawings, and we spent a lot of time tweaking colors to get the look. We've gotten a great response to the comic art, but both art packages will continue to be available. When we created the first set of game art, Bob Stevlik did an equally impressive job hand-painting all of those games. It's just two different art styles, and people can select from either. I'm focused on creating a powerful cadre of art, talent, in order to enhance every aspect of the games. And Randy certainly, quote-unquote, used the force on this one from George Gomez. So let's roll right into this. One, Jersey Jack Pinball, it's great that Joe Katz hasn't just left this game as is. They're still cranking down on it, man. I want to jump on there, dude, and see that new code update, in all honesty. I think it's like a 1.25 now. Does that sound right? So I exchanged some messages with Joe today, Joe Katz. Now, Joe Katz is a lead programmer on that. And he basically, so he added a mode. It's called Wonka Bar Ransom.
    6:26
    Okay? Okay. To get to Wonka Bar Ransom, you need to collect 200 Wonka Bars. Not golden tickets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wonka Bars. The actual bars. I get it. And the reason that he did this is because he wanted to pay homage to a scene that's in the movie that not a whole lot of people remembers, or at least they don't talk about it. And it's where the wife gets the call for ransom for her box of Wonka Bars in exchange for her husband's life. yes i do remember that quite well and she's hesitant to do so right now he didn't want to make the mode itself like dark and twisted but he wanted to acknowledge its existence in the movie so that's what that mode is based around now the modal it's not a timed mode so it'll go until you drain or it'll go until you start like a wizard mode then it cancels out okay but that mode just kind of keeps going so i think that's that's a cool addition man it is pretty cool i you know and i think this code will continue to evolve but i was never somebody that was really I'm not a huge Willy Wonka fan as far as the theme goes I haven't watched Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory 400 times, I don't have Wonka figurines in my house, I don't have the movie poster in my movie room no Gene Wilder I respect the movie for what it is and it was something that was impactful on my childhood because there's some creepy parts in the movie but that's not the only reason I remember it but for those that are on the fence because of the movie assets or at least the audio clips not matching with the video, I don't care about that No, that doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me at all. I mean, I still want one of those. Yeah. I think I'm going to have to try and go after one of those after a couple weeks goes by. Yeah. I'll have to reach out to my local – Well, if you remember last week, you were done. My distributor friends. You were done last week, and now you're only a couple weeks away from getting another pinball machine. This is the sickness that you have. We'll roll that into Bill's Corner. If you have Bill Webb pinball acquisition disease, please reach out and get help. Special in the pinball podcast at gmail.com. attention ken and i'll walk you through what i deal with on a weekly basis with bill you are way worse than i was but let's continue that in a yeah but i got help what do you call parkinson's i just ran out of money oh okay well parkinson's what's the help center dude i don't there's lots of help centers suicide help centers there's the disease depression health centers there's there's self-help help centers no but dude in chicagoland there was a uh a help center for alcoholism and I thought it was alcoholism. That's another one. I don't have that problem. It's well, arguably. No, you don't have that problem. Dude, when's the last time you see me drink TPF? Well, because you got a baby bill coming in and you need to be Johnny on the spot. Kind of. Yeah. I fully expect full 50 50s full fledged like the day after the birth. Yeah, dude. Those are on their way. You'll be hot tubbing. Those are with the 50 50s. Yes. The 50 50s are going to hit you a little harder because you haven't been drinking. Oh, dude, I cannot wait. March. I cannot wait. March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October. You're like eight months out of LPL. Yeah. I love LPL, and I'm eight months sober. I know. Right. So what you've done, though, is you've passed up one vice for another, and that is buying pinball machines. You noticed that, right?
    9:23
    It's all about deflection, Ken. Okay. I got you. Maybe in another month, dude, I could care less about pinball. I hope you do get a Willy Wonka, because it's always been one of my... Right now, my favorite pinball machine is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. And the fact that Joe Katz is still, again, not just correcting little bugs, but he's making significant changes to the code. Now, some people will say, well, that's not a significant change. So what, he added a mode, and then he made a difficulty level in order for you to collect Wonka bars? No, that's pretty significant. He added a mode this month. Yes. What's he going to do two months down the road? It's at version 1.0 already, so it could be considered as complete. so that you're getting another mode, and now you're having difficulty settings in order to attain or receive those. Because, I mean, I've not been able to get more than, I think, two Wonka Bars. I might have gotten three once. I think you got three once on stream. And I might have suppressed that from my memory because I was shocked. But, you know, to be able to get a fourth or a fifth, this is the only thing that I don't like about this. And it's just for me personally.
    10:23
    I don't like knowing that I can make something easier in a machine because then I feel like I'll be more apt to do it. And if you know me, I've always been the type of person that appreciates being able to play a game and see something that I've not seen before because it is difficult. And if all the stars align, right, and you catch lightning in a bottle, you're able to see, maybe you're able to collect that third or fourth Wonka Bar. And you're like, wow, I've never been able to do this. I've had this machine for six months. But then guess what? You know when you come and you get in front of that machine again, maybe the next day or the week after, you might see that fifth Wonka Bar. Now you're into, you know, the ultimate wizard mode. It's just there. And I cite Scared Stiff as one of those things where I own two and I never – a lot of people think when you light the stiff-o-meter on Scared Stiff that you've done everything you can do, but there's Spider Multiball, and that's the ultimate wizard mode on that game. Yeah. A lot of Scared Stiff owners don't know that that even exists, and that is if you light all of the achievements on the back glass, all the perks. It's hard. I never did it. Then you get in Spider Multiball. Now, I own two, and I could have taken the glass off each time I sold these pins, and I could have gotten myself in there just to see it. But guess what? I know I'm going to own another one, and I'll know that there's something there that I may see that I've never seen before. So it's like I don't like cheating. See I only taken the glass off one time to see something on a game that I knew I would never buy again What game was that Do you remember Demolition Man Okay. Because I was pissed last year when I sold it. I didn't see it. But in all fairness, I wanted a nicer example, which I did get. Now it's just kind of lackluster. Yeah. Can I tell you something? It's so much easier doing this show with you here, man. Because I was flying solo, and there's nobody else to talk to or to get a reply. So thanks for coming, man. Well, yeah, you're sitting there playing Bill's Advocate in your head. Yeah, it was strange. Now, I do like that there is difficulty settings, though, because, for instance, if you want to have somebody that's not as serious of a pinball player still have kind of a better pinball experience, I think it makes sense to be able to adjust that. Maybe if you're hosting a kid's party or just an inexperienced player that just wants to see more of the game, I think that it's wise to have that. It just makes sense. I remember Twilight Zone has that 9.4 home ROM, and there's a point in that game where if you hold the start button down while you're playing, I think this is how it goes because I had it, it would light the wizard mode, and all you had to do was you had to start a mode by putting it in the piano or whatever, and then you would go into loss in the zone. Now, I had seen loss in the zone several times on my own without doing that, so I didn't feel like I was ruining something that I didn't see before. Yeah, you weren't achieving your experience. Right. But to be able to have somebody over that maybe they're new to pinball, to have like a consistent multiball for 60 seconds and be in a wizard mode is a pretty fun thing. And to be able to have that accessible right off the bat, I think it's completely beneficial. See, you know what I mean? The problem that I have is like the last time I had everybody over at the – sorry for my Super Mario Brothers, but I had family over at the house. I literally took all the games and put them on extra easy for the kids, dude, and made everything. You look at it funny. You got a multiball because a 10-year-old, they get a multiball, and they think they've beaten the game. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's a very lasting impression to get a multiball on a pinball machine for your first time. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
    13:38
    But you know what? I mean, I rarely changed them back, dude. So I mean, a lot of this – I have seen more in games, but I don't care, man. That doesn't bother me if I see something again because it's not often that I get downstairs to play. I like to play the games as intended by the designers or as intended by the coders or the programmers or the team. But that being said, I'm not above making some tweaks. The center post kit on Ghostbusters is a major thing that was a faux pas for a lot of people that had known that I had done it. But you know what? It made the game so much more enjoyable. I'd rather make the game a little bit more enjoyable so that I'll keep it than have something that I'm just not liking that I'm invested into. And, you know, that's fine. I know the Ghostbusters beta code had a setting in the menu where you could essentially just light a mode on a single shot and get into a mode. And that's the test for the beta testers to light these modes and test the modes. I don't think that would even be horrible to have in a home environment where you can just go to one-shot mode start. Well, yeah. I mean, imagine being 12 years old, seeing the Stay Puft mode in Ghostbusters. I mean, that's incredible. Well, and once a generation of pinball players or lack of experience pinball players start understanding that there are things to see, there are rewards, you're not looking at a static play field and you're just trying to flip to stay alive. when you realize there's a story being told, there's a strategy to be had, and you're able to kind of show that in a fun way instead of trying to approach it from a competitive scoring standpoint. Maybe that appeals to some people, but I think people that are just getting in would rather see progression through a game maybe than going for high scores. I could be wrong. I think we've got a poll for this week. Would you rather see high scores or would you rather see more of the game? Yeah. Well, what drives you? Well, at this point, I think – I like seeing the modes, dude. I love seeing modes. Me too. You know, the score is great, whatever, but, you know, I just like seeing the modes and living those modes. So for me, that's where it's at. Yeah, right. I'd rather kind of get to a wizard mode and not blow up the game score-wise versus blow up the score and not really see a lot of the game. Like, I like to experience the game. Yeah. That's just me, though. But, again, I'm not a competitive pinball player either. Neither am I. And honestly, there's lots of people that'd rather exploit the game and get higher scores than see the game. And that's fine. So what do you think of this new Star Wars update? So we saw Star Wars came out two, three years ago. Two years. Two years, and now we are seeing Randy Martinez's approach to giving it a comic spin. Now, we saw something similar to this with Spider-Man. Remember, Spider-Man, when it was vaulted, it had the comic book artwork, and it appealed to a lot of people.
    16:14
    I think the Star Wars artwork on the original machines, first, they're working within the restrictions of the licensor. and the poses and everything that you're used to seeing looked very familiar to people and then you take somebody like Bob Stevlik who gets his hands on it now his approach to that was photorealism right so you looked at it and at first glance it almost looked like well it was kind of photoshopped or or clip arted because these are people in poses that I've seen for generations and the and the illustrations were so realistic that it kind of lost that depth of artwork, I think. And I think that turned some people off. Now, the cabinet side artwork looked awesome, but the playfield artwork, with it also being kind of a barren playfield, as opposed to the playfield approaching you closer to the start button, I think those, the combination of that, led people to believe that there wasn't so much going on. Now, you've got a different approach. You've got more vivid colors. You've got the exact same playfield layout and artwork as far as storyboard sketch, but you have a different approach to stylizing that artwork with comic book. And do you like that we're seeing essentially a reskin of a game that's a couple years old, and do you think that it plays to its advantage, or do you think it's like a non-event? I think, all right, so Star Wars as a theme wasn't always a strong one for me. That said, I like the original artwork. I think it was kind of, you know, I think it was very true to the game that it was. Was it very safe? Yeah, yeah, it was. Art package. The new stuff, I think it's cool. I think it's a great spin on getting more games out. I like that there's options. I think that there's a lot more potential down the road to see other things like that. There's some games I would love to see some different art packages on. So even though this game isn't a thing that calls to me, the idea of them coming back and redoing some play field art and cabinet art, I think, really lends itself well to doing. You know why Star Wars doesn't call to you is because why, Bill? Because I've seen it 466 not times. So Bill's never seen a Star Wars movie, ever. Didn't dig an inch, Ken. Oh, my gosh. Didn't dig an inch. There's got to be like. Because of that, you've just cost us this show, dude. People are going to turn it off. Right. Well, Bill's not seen a Star Wars movie, so the theme didn't. And it's funny because some people that do like Star Wars, the theme didn't appeal to them because of the approach for the game. So to each his own, I suppose. But you flipped Star Wars. I mean, is it a fun game in your eyes? I think it is, dude. I like the Hyperloop. The Hyperloop is really fascinating to see when you get multiple balls in the loop. And I like Steve Ritchie designs, too. So, I mean, that lends itself well. So you've got a Steve Ritchie flow design with a little bit more of a stop-and-go rule set or programming because there's a lot of, like, choosing paths in the game.
    19:04
    So it appeals to a lot of people on different levels. And, again, with anything else, it doesn't appeal on a lot of levels. Do you think that the artwork then, does it affect the original sales or the value of the original machines that came out a couple years ago? Because the original ones are still available, I don't think it would have that whole much of an impact. Okay. I think the people that didn't like the artwork maybe originally would maybe be more in on this. Yeah, I mean, I was going to ask you that, too. Do you think that there's enough people that passed on the original Star Wars from Stern because of the artwork, and this is going to drum up additional business that they normally wouldn't have had? Or do you think this is just something that's a new release where people want something that's new and shiny and different and they'll jump in on it? I think it's a widely recognized IP that it's going to be selling for a long time. It's cool. You've got the Imperial and the Rebels. You've got two different editions on the Premiere and on the Pro. If I were to get another Star Wars, I would absolutely go the comic book style. And I do like kind of like the Imperial kind of artwork on that. So it's good times. Congratulations to Randy Martinez on jumping aboard and knocking something out for Stern Pinball. Speaking of Stern Pinball, we have now an ex-partner of Stern Pinball that had made a Facebook post recently. Do you know who that is? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say Chris Franchi. Yes, it is. Ah, okay. So I got one right today. You got one right. So if you follow Christopher Franchi on Facebook, on the 28th of September he made a post, and I'm just going to read it verbatim here. very excited to share some pinball news in the coming weeks. What I can share right now is that I've decided to step away from Stern pinball and I will not be returning. I feel this is best move for me and have spent the last few months setting up other things. I have no fear. I'm making a return to pinball art for other companies and lots of things are happening. Details to come. Also an in-depth podcast appearance will be coming up very soon that will fill in all the blanks. Stick around, kitties. Lots more fun to come. So we've been on Chris Franchi watch for months, it seems like, and not really knowing where his career was going to take him within pinball. I think our biggest fear at one point we thought maybe he was going to step away from pinball altogether. Yeah. And I think that would have been a shame. Then when we realized that wasn't necessarily going to be the case, we wanted to make sure that, you know, we were going to see more pinball releases at Stern with Chris Franchi. And I think now it's explained to us pretty plainly that Chris is like, you know what? We've decided to go separate ways, not coming back to Stern, and I'm going somewhere else. Now, he says companies. He doesn't say company.
    21:44
    Wow, so you're hinged on the IES on that, huh? I don't know. At that point, I mean, he's not saying, hey, I'm going to another pinball company. I think it's smart for him to leverage himself where he can put packages together for multiple companies. Because if we look at the amount of machines coming out from all these companies, American Pinball, one machine a year. Jersey Jack Pinball might announce two games a year, but they ship like one game a year right now. Right now. Spooky Pinball, they've been fine doing their one game a year. Chicago Gaming Company, one game every year with their remakes. So I think it makes sense for him not to commit to one company if he can only be one art package a year. Because at Stern, we're used to this revolving door of at one point it was Zombie Eddie and Chris Franchi for like a year. and it was like boom, boom, boom, and it was shocking the amount of artwork that was coming out. Crazy artwork. That was unbelievable. Yeah. Right, right. And honestly, I mean, just from that time frame, dude, it was just insane for artwork. I think it would be a real travesty if he did leave the hobby. I'm kind of torn on him leaving Stern. You know, I want the best for him, you know, because he had some great stuff come out of Stern. I agree. But this is not the last rodeo. It's not the last hurrah. So I'm just – now I've got to see what he's doing next, man. Where would you like to see him go? I mean, what would you because I was thinking about this today to your point I'm sad that he's not at Stern anymore because I mean you again, you know Stern is gonna have Four five six seven releases in any given year now when George Gomez He joined us on the flippin out streaming network when we were streaming Star Wars the pin and there was a question asked to George Directly will we see a new pinball artist revealed from Stern pinball in 2020 and without hesitation He said absolutely Yes you will So we seeing we see Randy Martinez on this game that just came out the Star Wars re We saw Kevin O'Connor. He did Black Knight Sword of Rage. You've got Zombie Yeti, who is obviously doing packages. So it's Johnny Crap. Johnny Crap, who just did Jurassic Park. Greg Freras, who just did Scared Stiff. You've got five, six artists now that have done pinball artwork for Stern within the last seven, eight months. so and then we're going to see more art so do you think it's like they're not going to put all their eggs in one basket does it does it burn the artist out i guess in all fairness we'd have to ask the artist we'd have to ask chris or we'd have to ask zombie yeti if it just gets to be taxing and demanding to be expected to do two or three releases per year because again uh you're seeing different artwork on uh you know multiple games with multiple tiers yeah yeah you know what it's It's got to be taxing, but you know what I mean? It's the heyday of pinball again, so I'm just glad to see that he's going somewhere else. So where do you want to see him go?
    24:18
    I'd love to see him do something for JGP. Yep. Okay. Not that I think that the artwork on Woz or Dialed In or anything is bad, but I just really like his art style. Could you see him doing – because the next two releases – All right, so let me – I've had my Starbucks, so I'm going to get a little more caffeinated here. So let me throw you this question. Let me sip my drink. Hold on. Chris Franchi joining JJP. We're totally throwing the wheel of speculation out here.
    24:48
    Chris joins JJP and does Toy Story. How incredible would that freaking game be? Okay, but now you've got an artist that does photorealism that's going to recreate animation. I don't know how that would come across. I almost think, not to lessen the credit of somebody else, but I almost wonder if utilizing in-house movie graphics makes sense. Like, I don't know if I want to see that redrawn. How about Guns N' Roses? Guns N' Roses would be interesting for me to see because I think that lends itself a little bit better to his art style. But I'm almost, I would assume they have somebody working artwork on that. I don't know. But yes, if Franchi and JJP teamed up to do Guns N' Roses, I would be on board for that. Oh, dude, it would be incredible. Yeah. You know? I've not seen him put out something that's been disappointing from a pinball machine standpoint. Well, that's why I say Toy Story, man. That'd be something to see. Dude, something outside of the box for him. Yeah, but again, it's just like it's already animated. It is, but still, man. I don't know if I do, you know, with how he does things. I don't know, man. We'll have to have him draw some preliminary sketches of Toy Story for us. And what podcast is he going on? Because it's not special in Lit Pinball Podcast. I don't know where he's going. So he's going somewhere to tell the story. I hope that, I don't know, I hope he gets anything off his chest that he wants. I hope it's not a dump fest because that would be maybe not the best thing. But, no, hey, we got nothing but love for him, man, and hope nothing but the best. Well, this is the thing with Chris. So we know Chris personally, and he's been a friend of ours, and we've said it before. Like, we don't always agree with the way that he might convey a belief or a defense or an idea. but somebody said it the other day like that he's kind of like a big teddy bear and he is a big teddy bear i mean he's a nice guy real nice he's just he's an artist he expressed himself and i'm not making excuses for what he does or what he doesn't do and i don't know that he needs to have excuses made for himself because as long as he's comfortable with with what he says and what he does that's the most important thing makes no difference to what i think makes no difference what you think it just makes a difference with what he thinks and when he goes to bed at night time and how he feels rest his head on the pillow that he sleeps the sleep of the just you know that's the most important thing and guess what dude there's been times where we might not have agreed and called it and for sure discussion with him yeah you know um nothing wrong with that you know we can all be uh civil with different opinions so well i wish him the best of luck i'm looking forward to hearing the podcast i don't know where it is or what's going on but uh chicagoland pinball expo is coming up consequently uh chris will be at chicagoland pinball expo he'll have some art for sale there uh so if you want to visit chris you can visit there at expo now i wanted to talk about this real quick we're not going to go over the whole show schedule because if you want you can go to chicago chicago pinball expo.com and you can look at the show schedule and you can see what's going on thursday friday saturday night a couple quick things that i did want to touch on i think the main attraction is that we're going to start seeing uh these elvira house of horrors machines in the wild so you'll be able to get on the game and play it and if you're a fan of the game cassandra peterson who is elvira right she'll be um at expo and she'll be in a panel discussion with the designer, Dennis Norman, the artist, Greg Freres, and the lead programmer, Lyman Sheets. They'll be having a panel. Now, I don't know for certain, but I hope that we see Jerry Thompson there with sound. I hope that we see Chuck Ernst there leading up the computer animations department. That's going to be a fun night. If you remember the last time that there was kind of a panel in that type of a capacity, it was Dennis, Greg, and Cassandra Peterson. and they were, I believe that was at TPF. That's what I was thinking, so I'm glad you said that. And they were just kind of going over the history of the Elvira pins, Party Monsters and Scared Stiff, and then that's when that pin was revealed to the surprise of Stern, I think, by Elvira or Cassandra Peterson. She said, oh, yeah, and we got another pinball machine coming. And it's been years since that's happened, and so finally it's here. We get to see and revisit them again, so that's going to be fun. Now, if you are coming to Expo, I'm running a Meet the Media event, And essentially it's an opportunity for pinball content providers to meet those that are appreciative of what they're providing and kind of being pinball ambassadors for the expo welcoming committee, if you are or if you will. Now, if you're coming in, you can go ahead. I'm going to release a full schedule here in the next few days. We're finalizing that. But you've got pinball YouTubers. You've got pinball streamers. You've got pinball podcasters. You've got pinball content providers. We're all going to be manning two tables, so you'll have two media outlets or content providers that will be going simultaneously. And this is going to happen all through Expo Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night, actually from 3 p.m. to 8 p.m. So there will be five hours of media there for three consecutive nights. So at some point, if you wanted to sit down and meet Emoto Harney from Emoto Arcade and Marco TV, you'll be able to look at the schedule and be like, oh, she's going to be here at this day and this time. I want to go there. I just want to hang out and say hi and let her know. Shake her hand. Yeah, absolutely. If you want to see Jeff Teolas on his World Podcast Tour, you can go ahead and you can meet Jeff Teolas and hang out with him and discuss some pinball. If you want to come shake the hands of a Ken Cromwell and a Bill Webb, Brian Cosner is coming in. Nice. Yeah, he's coming into Expo. It's his first time ever being to a show. So he's going to come in, and he just wants to hang out and have fun and meet people. It's going to be a good time, and there's a lot of people there. And then finally, we have the Epic Expo Tailgate Stream. It's going to be Wednesday night prior to Expo because Expo starts Thursday. It's going to be on the Flippin' Out streaming network. This is going to be – might be my most favorite thing that we're doing that week, and it's simply this. For those of you that are Super Bowl fans, you always know, like, before the Super Bowl, that whole day is like a party leading up to Super Bowl. And there's interviews, and you're looking at footage and all this kind of stuff. Well, we're going to do the same thing the night before Expo, Wednesday night from 6 p.m. to 11, maybe later, p.m. Yeah, dude, I've heard that 6 to 11 nonsense before until 2. But proceed. I'm just going to let everybody know. If it's 11 o'clock and you think it might be over, it ain't over. Come in and check us out. Don't come if you want to watch pinball playing because this is not the stream that's going to be for you. It's just because there's not going to be any. There will be pinball machines where it's Studio B. There will be 20 machines for the VIP industry guests to come in and play while they're eating food and drinking beverage. But everybody that's there is going to jump on these mics, right? and they're just going to talk about what they've been working on and what's going on at Expo that includes them. And it's going to be an excellent preview. And I think it's nice, too, if you're not able to get to Expo, you're going to get a pretty nice coverage of those that will be there for one night. We'll have chat open. You can come in and you can talk to anybody that's there. We'll have the call-in line set up if you want to talk, you know, call up and talk. Maybe you want to talk to Scott Denise and be like, hey, Scott, what's the next game coming up? Just call him up and ask him. He'll be there that night. Full guest list coming for that, too, but it's exciting. And, again, it's going to be Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Central Standard Time. Again, if you're looking to watch pinball, you're going to want to hit another stream that night. But if you want to have some pinball personalities.
    31:42
    For anyone that's not close to Expo, or even if you are, dude, it's just a great private party with all these different media events. Or, you know, people in the industry. And, I mean, it's just going to be a constant rotation of craziness coming in and out. So, I mean, I look forward to the hour or two I'm hoping to sneak out and get there. But, you know. It'll be fun. And there's going to be a lot of other great pinball being played on Twitch that night. So I encourage you, if what we're offering that night's not your thing, go ahead and peruse the Twitch channels because there's going to be some other stuff that's going to be appealing to you. Absolutely. Are you ready to play Drain It or Save It, Bill? Absolutely.
    32:18
    It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Drain It or Save It is brought to you by Lermods.com, offering you custom quality playfield mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit Lermods.com today. For those of you new to the segment, drain it or save it simple. If we disagree with something, we drain it. If we agree with something, we save it. And the first item on the docket today is this bill. Baywatch, currently ranked number 113, should swap places with Transformers, which is currently ranked number 98, on the pin side top 100. Do you swap Baywatch at 113 and trade places with Transformers number 98? Drain it or save it. I will save it because I can take Baywatch and make it number 32. How are you going to do that? No, I said because I can't do that. Oh, right. Now, you own Baywatch and Transformers. Yes. So you think that Baywatch, and full disclosure, I don't think that there's not a whole lot of weight being held in what the pin-side top 100 is necessarily, but it gives you a pretty good range of kind of what people are liking, what they're not liking when you start getting into the 100 mark. So you'd like to see Baywatch jump into that top 100, and if you had to, if Transformers had to go, you'd be fine with it. Yeah, I like Transformers, but I like Baywatch a lot more. I like the shots, I think, a little more. All right, so what's more deserving, in your opinion, with the ranking? Baywatch at 113 or Transformers at 98? I think Baywatch should be 98 or better. Okay, me too. I'm going to save it. I think you said it right. I have so much of a better time playing Baywatch. It's an underrated game. I'm not encouraging anybody to go in and skew your pin-side rankings because of what we're discussing, but if you have not played Baywatch, Absolutely check it out. It's a Joe Balser design. It's super fun. And where the theme might be off-putting for some people, you start to appreciate the theme and everything that's involved in that pin. Because if it was literally skinned to anything else, because we were talking about reskins earlier, you could reskin that to just about anything, and it would be killer. Yeah, it would jump up 60 places. All right, so let me throw this one. Baywatch or Fishtails? Which one do you enjoy playing more? Baywatch. Okay. Yeah. But if somebody said you can have a free, and they're probably valued about the same price, right? Maybe Fishtails a little bit more. But if someone said, hey, you can have a Fishtails or you can have Baywatch fully restored collector edition, which one would you like? I would take Baywatch. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I would have a lot more fun. All right. Secondly, manufacturer reskins such as Star Wars and Spider-Man are good for the collector market. Train it or save it. I will save it because I like seeing some of that stuff. Yeah. You're going to save it. I'm going to save it, too. I think the big thing there a difference between the collector and the pinball investor Whereas if you going into pinball from an investment standpoint it may not work out in your favor I think some of these machines are potentially good investments if purchased properly at the right price. And when you see a reskin like Star Wars, I tend to disagree with you a little bit, Bill. I think that the reskin of Star Wars might impact the price of the originals, but I don't think it's going to impact it so much to where it's drastic. It's a Jurassic. I think, naturally, anything that's new and being offered might command a little bit more money.
    35:25
    I disagree with you only because of the fact that you can still get both art packages. Yeah, right. They're not limited. You can still get either. But if both are on the used market, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which one would you rather have? Would somebody pay an extra $200 or $300 for the newer art package? Or would somebody expect to drop their price $200 or $300 because they have the older art package? I could see that happening. But, again, it's not like you're going to save $800 on an art package. Or you just don't sell it if somebody wants to drop $200, $300. No, that's true. That's true. But from a collector's standpoint, I do like having options, whether they are in artwork or different tiers of pinball machines. So I'm going to save manufacturer reskins for Star Wars. I hope we see some more. I just hope it doesn't get out of control. Lastly, this is a fun one. Special Unlit should invite Chris Calouris, a.k.a. Kaneda, from Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, on to next week's episode. Drain it or save it, Bill. I will save it. Really? Yeah. Why is that? Because I would love to debate him because of my debate last week that I heard him talk about. So you're going to want to debate Kaneda on the show? Not really debate him, but just jag him a little bit on the show. Yeah, that would be a good time, man. Yeah, I'm going to save it, too. You know why I'm going to save it? Because guess who's coming on the show next week?
    36:33
    Chris Franchi? No, it's not Chris Franchi. It's Chris Clouris. Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. So Chris is going to come in as our guest on Special Oil and Pinball Podcast. Every conversation I've had with Chris has been respectful. Yeah. And we talked about maybe jumping on one or the other shows for the last few weeks, few months. And I don't know. I think it's time. It would be fun to have him on. We actually had some people reach out asking if it was something that we'd ever see come to fruition. And, yeah, so we're going to do that. Time to pull the trigger. Yeah. So Chris is going to be our guest on Special and Lit, Pinball Podcast, Episode 74 next week. Now, hopefully you're here because you will have already had Baby Bill. And you might have fornicated me on this one. What does that even mean? Oh, look it up, man. I know a fornication. Oh, okay. I might have got squared over on this one, man. Hey, Bill's out. Chris is in.
    37:24
    We're your new host of Special Lit Pinball Podcast. Bill, thanks for your efforts here at Special Lit. It's always been a good time, but that's going to sum up. Train or save it. Brought to you by Lermods.com.
    37:37
    Bill, as we go into Bill's corner, this was my goodbye segment to you. It's been fun knowing you as somebody that has one child, And now with a second child coming on the way, in case I never see you again, I wanted to say goodbye. I wanted to thank you for your service on Special Olympic Ball Podcast. And I want to let you know that you're always in our thoughts and prayers. I appreciate that. It feels very morbid, and let's just not go down that road. Okay, no problem. I'm hoping that I can continue the path of, you know. Listen, it was funny because we kind of teased this last week, and we had a couple people that reached out. And they're like, oh, man, it sucks that Bill's leaving. I had two people say that I've not ever been in podcasting before, but if you're looking for a co-host, I'd like to try. I was like, oh, snap. Damn, I'm that replaceable, huh? Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. But I mean, obviously, it's all fun. You're not going anywhere. Dude, I know. Well, Sunday, Saturday, we're coming home. Allegedly, if this all works out, we're coming home Saturday from the hospital. So if it's Sunday, we might be able to. Yeah, no problem. I'm just going to go downstairs in the basement for two hours. In the bathroom. Here's some pills. Go to sleep. You can't. Who? My wife. Oh, it's like, don't give the baby pills. No, no, no, no, no, no. Dude, two things. Don't give the baby pills. Don't give the baby alcohol and try not to shake the baby. Those are all bad things. Listen, we did a good job on the first one because she's still alive. That's true. She's not addicted to pills. That's good. No. Dude, because the wife's going to be in a lot of pain. That's what I'm talking about. So whatever. If anyone knows me, they know the truth. I love that Bill is like, my wife's going to be in a lot of pain, but I have to do a pinball podcast, so I'm going to have to give her some pills so I can go downstairs for two hours. Just keep her happy. I'm kidding. I wouldn't medicate her to do a podcast, but we don't want her to be in pain. Are you sure about that? Maybe a little bit. No, she's, dude, I've been in pain from this. It's fine. Okay. Yeah. No problem. We're good. No problem. So, yeah, so Bill's not going anywhere as far as we know. No. Maybe just a little harder to get out of the house for a week or a couple weeks. Yeah. We'll see. No problem. Anything else going on other than the arrival of the new edition? Dude, I think after this all goes down, man, I want to try and score a Willy Wonka. I think it's time. It's time. You got code that's being updated. Joe Katz is like, hey, this game might be at 1.0, but it's still going to evolve, so it's still going to go. Dude, I really like it.
    39:51
    Honestly, I was kicking it over the weekend, kicking around what I'm going to get rid of. So I think I've narrowed it down to a 2 or 3. So we'll see what happens. But I'm not in a position to move games out right now. So it'll be a couple weeks before I even have that thought. I've got to get games out because I've got games down here that need to go. So the Monster Bash LE, that's on loan from CGC. I need to pick that up. I need to take that somewhere else before Expo. The Jurassic Park LE from Flippin' Out Pinball that's down here, Zach said it's sold. So this one is going, whoever buys this is going to be extremely happy because Playfield's in great shape, and the game plays awesome, and it's just a super clean pin. Star Wars, the pin back here, that's leaving. So it's going to leave me temporarily with a Lord of the Rings. on loan from Steve Beatty. And my meteor that's getting rethemed to Cherry Atomic. And actually, I got the trans lights today. I outsourced the printing because I wasn't going to have time to do those in-house. And you're going to be bringing those to the show. I am. So they're going to come to Expo, whatever's left. We have 50 signed and numbered by Brian Holderman. He's the artist. And then we have another run that just aren't signed or numbered. If you want to grab one, you can pick it up at Expo. it's $99 for the non-signed and non-numbered but if you want brian's autograph on there it's 150 but if you want me to ship it i can ship one for 10 bucks uh but if you want the le one those are about half sold out so you're going to want to make sure that you get one sooner than later because i think what i bring the expo i don't know that they'll all sell out but i wouldn't be surprised i wouldn't i wouldn't be good um and then the other thing is like at expo we have we did a whole new run a special one like pinball podcast t-shirts and they're in this like dark midnight like blue uh background they look really really nice so i've had people that have reached out to me on those we did 100 of those shirts and i think we have maybe 15 that are already sold i'm bringing the other 585 to expo they're 25 bucks if you want to pick one up there so a little self-promotion for special and lit pinball podcast and uh you know try to make a little money put it back into the podcast put it back into the stream yeah you gotta get some more cameras maybe i'll bring baywatch over dude so you can stream that that'd be fun oh Because also, the games are coming out of the basement now. They're going, and I've got... Exactly. Right. That's why I have not bought any games recently. It's because I don't want to bring a game to bring it in the basement. It's going to have to go back up into the garage, because that's where the garage game room studio slash studio is going to be. And, man, it's tough because of all the games that have come through here. Like, it's going to be hard to see Jurassic Park leave, because I mean, that's a game that I have a lot of fun playing.
    42:23
    Monster Bash from CGC is just another fun game. And then... Dude, yeah, you've got a rock star lineup down here. Yeah. It'll be back quick. Yeah. So it'll be time for me to buy my Willy Wonka LE because I've had that on hold for a little bit until this basement thing gets done.
    42:38
    And listen, so speculation is that Brian Eddy's got a game. We know he's working on something. If it's the next release from Stern or if it's the first release next year, I am a Brian Eddy fan from a designer, programmer standpoint, and just a personal standpoint. The guy's just a very nice guy. and we've gotten a chance to know him a little bit and um i'm excited to see him back involved and whatever his next effort is i'm assuming that we're going to get one to stream on flipping out and like i think i said this last week if it's if it's decent and i expect that it will be that one probably won't leave my uh my garage studio that'll stay there we'll let you unbox that one then yeah i unbox most of them because nobody else is here it's weird like it's like Unboxing is not a chore anymore, but it's absolutely lost its luster for pulling the toy from the middle of the cereal box. Dude, you know what I hate? I don't mind moving a machine. I just hate wrapping them up now.
    43:39
    Yeah, well, you know, I don't mind wrapping them up. I hate wrapping them up by yourself. When you've got to put the head down and you've got to plastic around that by yourself, that's horrible. I hate that. Dude, Cactus Jack. So it was like last Thursday, and, dude, life is getting real. You know, so I was like, I've got to get this game in. Yeah. So, you know, I asked, like, two neighbors, and they were busy. So I'm like, you know what, whatever, man. I got a ramp in the shed for my lawnmower, so I threw the ramp up on the front porch. Dude, wheeled that sucker onto the front porch and dragged that thing down to the basement by myself. The last five stairs, it got a little sketchy, dude, and it was, you know, a little out of control. Right, right, right. We didn't drop that sucker, but yeah, dude, I mean, removing them is fine. Wrapping them sucks. Yeah, wrapping them does. You know what sucks is that because you know when you're – well, it's bittersweet Because if it's a game you want out of here, you're pretty happy to wrap it up because you know somebody's picking it up and you're getting money or a trade. But if it's a game like you don't want to see go, like, for instance, when Jurassic Park Pro left and it went to your house, I was a little sad about that, Bill. Until you found out JPL, you can't. Until like four days later, like, the LE was here. And I was like, oh, sweet. But now the LE is going. And I'm going to be a little bit sad to see it go. But it is what it is. It's part of the pinball evolution. And, you know, time to start building that collection. At sea level and not below sea level. Zach was here, and he's like, man, you've got a pretty underground basement. I'm like, well, that's kind of what a basement is, bro. It's like it's under the ground. He's like, no, you're going down all these stairs. It seems like you're really far under the ground. I'm like, well, it's a basement. I mean, it's a bunker for Nuclear Fallout, too. It could be. I don't think I'm any lower than I'm supposed to be. No, you're not. But, hey, you know what, man? I'm excited. Tonight, Zach's revealing something. I'm flipping out. That's going to be fun. I encourage you guys, check out Pinball Streaming. It doesn't need to be us. But if it's anybody, just get into pinball streaming. Check it out. It's fun. Consider Special One Lit Pinball Podcast for your podcast of the year for the Twippies. We'd love to earn your vote, and we hope that we've done so. And if there's something we can change that makes this a better show, reach out to us at SpecialOneLitPinballPodcast at gmail.com, at Facebook at SpecialOneLitPinballPodcast, or Instagram, SpecialOneLitPinball. Bill, you got anything else? No, man. We'll see you guys all on the flip side of the coin here. Yeah. Next time we see you, you have a life-changing incident that will have taken place. So we wish you luck. Good times. For Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.
    46:02
    And this is Bill Webb calling in right now. Hold on. He should be home in the next 10 minutes. Hey, you're live on Special Winlet Pinball Podcast. I'm recording, Bill. I should be at your house at 545. Okay. Very good. Is that going to be enough time? That should be enough time to knock out a quick episode, right? Yeah. I'm literally recording an episode. I'm 40 minutes in right now. So whatever we don't get to, I've already talked about.
    46:24
    Okay. Yeah. So come on over. All right. Thanks. Bye. All right. Bye. Bill Webb, ladies and gentlemen. So that was a big waste of my time for the last 39 minutes and 18 seconds.