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Episode 84 - Double Vision/Collateral Damage

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 57m·analyzed·Mar 26, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

TPF debrief: Drury Hotel better than Hilton, Jersey Jack announces expensive Oz variant, Steve Ritchie not retiring.

Summary

Post-Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) debrief covering the trip logistics, hotel comparisons, driving mishaps, contest winners, and key seminar news including Steve Ritchie retirement status and Jersey Jack's surprise Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road LE announcement at $12,500 with production questions and Pirates of the Caribbean sales concerns.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie is not retiring immediately after his next game and still likes what he does

    high confidence · Direct quote from Steve Ritchie's TPF seminar as reported by Dennis

  • Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road LE will have up to 200 units in 2019, with up to 500 total possible

    high confidence · Jersey Jack official presentation at TPF; Dennis attended or received report

  • Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road LE priced at $12,500

    high confidence · Jersey Jack official announcement at TPF

  • Pirates of the Caribbean has not been a strong seller for Jersey Jack

    high confidence · Discussion on Pinside forums and observed designer Eric's demeanor at seminar and Twippies

  • Jersey Jack renewed both Wizard of Oz and Pirates of the Caribbean licenses

    medium confidence · Jack (Jersey Jack owner) mentioned at TPF seminar, as reported by Dennis

  • Drury Hotel room was twice the size of comparable Hilton rooms

    high confidence · Direct observation by Tony and Dennis during TPF stay

  • Steve Ritchie's upcoming game will have at least two flippers, six balls, and significantly higher percentage of plastics than normal

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie at TPF seminar

Notable Quotes

  • “We didn't notice that we weren't going the normal I-35 route for like 100 miles. We'd been driving for like an hour.”

    Tony @ ~22:00 — Demonstrates post-TPF exhaustion leading to GPS navigation error on drive home

  • “He's just there. I mean, it's just like all of a sudden it's not a slow road and it's just like... I almost hit him and it really bothered me because it was so dark at this point.”

    Dennis @ ~35:00 — Near-miss incident with intoxicated pedestrian on Highway 69, heightened safety awareness on return trip

  • “Steve is not retiring immediately after this next game. He's not currently planning to retire. He still likes what he does, and he feels good.”

    Dennis (reporting Steve Ritchie) @ ~67:30 — Addresses long-standing retirement speculation about Steve Ritchie

  • “It's not something that's the kind of game most people are going to want to play on location, and there's still a lot of location play.”

    Dennis @ ~92:00 — Commentary on Pirates of the Caribbean sales challenges despite high design quality

  • “I don't know that there are going to be a lot of people that are going to want to pay over $2,000 more for basically the same game.”

    Tony @ ~104:00 — Skepticism about Yellow Brick Road LE pricing premium over standard Oz

  • “He's always got to be, you know, messing everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, let's do something on Friday night. I have to work the booth till 1.”

    Dennis (about Zach Minney) @ ~59:00 — Playful criticism of Zach Minney for winning contest drawing despite being podcast personality/vendor

  • “And he wasn't just on the line. He was in my lane. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him. I probably would have killed him.”

    Dennis @ ~32:00 — Dangerous driving encounter nearly causing fatality

  • “Jack has repeatedly stated, and he keeps renewing the license, so he must be building and selling more and more Wizard of Oz games.”

Entities

Texas Pinball FestivaleventJersey Jack PinballcompanySteve RitchiepersonJack (Jack Danger)personDennispersonTonypersonZach Minneyperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pirates of the Caribbean underperforming sales for Jersey Jack, potentially becoming worst-selling game in company history, displacing Dialed In

    high · Discussion on Pinside forums about poor sales; designer Eric observed looking unhappy at seminar and awards; no current plans for additional production runs

  • ?

    event_signal: Twippy Awards held at Texas Pinball Festival, recognizing content creators including Straight Down the Middle podcast with multiple award wins

    high · Dennis and Tony attended Twippies at TPF; confirmed award winners; Dennis notes Zach Minney worked vendor booth during event

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Jersey Jack renewed Wizard of Oz and Pirates of the Caribbean licenses for multiple years despite Pirates' poor sales performance

    medium · Jack (JJP owner) mentioned at TPF seminar that licenses were renewed; continued Oz sales suggest sustained demand despite high pricing

  • $

    market_signal: Lack of standardization across pinball manufacturers' three-tier pricing nomenclature (Stern: Pro/Premium/LE; Jersey Jack: LMS/LE/CE; Chicago Gaming: CE/SE) creates consumer confusion

    high · Extended discussion between Dennis and Tony about abbreviation inconsistencies and how collectors might purchase wrong tier thinking LE means limited edition

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie not retiring after next game; plans continued design work at potentially slower pace than John Borg

    high · Direct statement from Steve Ritchie at TPF seminar: 'Steve is not retiring immediately after this next game. He's not currently planning to retire. He still likes what he does, and he feels good.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.352

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Monday, March 25th. This is episode 84. I am less tired than I was yesterday, Tony. And I am a, my shins are finally gone, happy Dennis. Yay! Okay, so here we are. This is our post-TPF, or Texas Pinball Festival trip episode, where we talk about all the fun things that we did, any of the unfun things that we did, and just all the interesting stuff that happens once a year when we go to the Texas Pinball Festival. For those of you that don't know, Tony and I try and go to the Texas Pinball Festival every year. It's like the one show that we get to. And if you're going to pick a show, maybe I shouldn't speak in this way because it's not like I've been to Pinball Expo or to Replay FX, but the Texas Pinball Festival, Twippy Award-winning Texas Pinball Festival now, as we'll touch on in a little bit. It's a lot of fun. There are a lot of games, so you have an opportunity to play a lot of electromechanical and solid-state-era games. A lot of the people who are involved in the hobby, be they writing articles, doing news, having podcasts, putting video out online a lot of them come to this show. So you meet a lot of really interesting people and they're willing to talk to you. So anyway overall I always like doing the trip. Like you I've not been to Pembroke obviously but from everything I've heard from Pembroke it feels like Texas is a bit more free form because you can just you're not locked into working in your groups all the time if you're taking part in the tournament. Yeah, the thing I hear about with people at Replay, well, specifically people playing in Penberg at Replay, is that they get to meet a lot of interesting people group to group that they're speaking with. Whereas here, it's less like you're walking around and you might see someone that you recognize. Like you might see Steve Bowden and you can go up and say, hey, hey, Steve, I love watching you always be cashing. And Steve will be like, yo, cool.
2:18
I don't know if he'll say exactly those words, but if I were him, I would say those words. Give them a nice little soap. Yep. So, for introductions, what I thought is, since we're going to spend most of our time talking about the Texas Pinball Festival itself, I thought maybe this would be a good time for us to just talk about the tangential stuff related to the trip to the Texas Pinball Festival. Yeah! Which, so, let's start with, here, Tony and I have never stayed in the hotel that's tied to the convention center. It's always sold out. Yeah. One of these days, maybe we will, because from the conversations I've had with some people, it sounds like it would be a really good place to go. We've just never quite made that leap. That's on me. It's when I book the rooms, and I usually book the room when I book my ticket, and I always get the ticket at the pre-registration rate, so I do it before the new year, but usually it's past the month after it's all known at the very least. Right. And that's okay. There are three other hotels within what I would describe as easy walking distance. We're talking two blocks away or less. So there's like the Hyatt House, which we've never been at. There's the Hilton, which for, this is our fourth TPF and we've been at the Hilton three times. And then there was the Drury, which was the one that we were at this time. And that was an interesting thing of discussion because what happened was when I registered, I of course saw that the host facility was sold out of their block. So I went to the Hilton, like I normally do, and they were sold out of the block. So I checked over with the Hyatt, and they were sold out, and then I checked with the Drury, and they still had rooms in the block. But it seemed like when we were, and it was Tony and me, and then Eric, who has been on the episode, not this episode, he's been on some episodes a few times, especially our E3 episodes, went with us, as he often does, and we all shared a room. and you and Eric were very fond of the Drury compared to the Hilton. I was, very much so. I preferred it by a non-trivial margin. And cost-wise, it was very on par. I think the Drury was somewhere on the order of maybe $5 less, if I'm remembering my registration document. I mean, it was so close, it used to be meaningless. Right. It was within the difference that just a change in the taxes from last year could have made the difference. Yeah, yeah.

Dennis @ ~107:00 — Observation that continued Oz license renewals indicate strong ongoing sales

Eric (Designer)
person
Martin Reinhartperson
John Borgperson
Stern Pinballcompany
Wizard of Ozgame
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
Drury Hotelproduct
Hilton Hotelproduct
Highway 69product
Hyatt Houseproduct
For Amusement Only Podcastorganization
Nick Baldridgeperson
Coin-Op Carnivalproduct
Twippy Awardsevent
Pinsideorganization
Eric (Trip Companion)person
Straight Down the Middleorganization
  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road LE priced at $12,500, $2,000+ above other JJP models, raising speculation about market testing for higher pricing tier

    high · Official Jersey Jack announcement at TPF seminar; Dennis and Tony discuss whether this is testing waters for future price increases on Wonka and Toy Story

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack announces Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road limited edition with up to 200 units in 2019, 500 total possible, featuring improved mechs and Flying Monkey animation replacement

    high · Official TPF seminar announcement; Dennis reports specs and production numbers

  • ?

    product_strategy: Steve Ritchie's upcoming game features at least two flippers, six balls, and significantly higher percentage of plastics than normal, sparking speculation about Black Knight 3000 theme

    high · Steve Ritchie at TPF seminar; Dennis notes multiple playfields would justify high plastic count

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community skepticism about Yellow Brick Road LE pricing and limited production numbers, questioning whether collectors will support $2,000+ premium for minor improvements

    medium · Dennis and Tony express doubt whether 200-500 unit run will sell out; community discussions on Pinside forums speculate about pricing strategy and market saturation of Oz variants

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack creating multiple limited iterations of Wizard of Oz game (original + Yellow Brick Road LE), potentially undermining exclusivity and collector value

    medium · Dennis notes criticism that JJP's limited unit counts aren't truly limited and habit of making new iterations irks collectors who feel it undermines their game value

    • 4:50
    But I have to admit, I often joked throughout the trip that whenever anything bad would happen, I would just say this wouldn't have happened if we were at the Hilton. But I can't really blame the hotel for much of anything. They didn't make a big deal about the free breakfast thing with the Hilton. They give you these tickets. We didn't have free breakfast. And they didn't do the tickets this year is what I've heard from talking to other people. Well, we always had to do these stupid tickets. And it was annoying because they get all crumpled up and you pass them out. And it was just like, it was just easier. The room was at least twice the size as the Hilton room. We weren't in a suite either. No. And it was huge. So, because what we do is when we go, we always get a double queen room. And then, like, I bring a sleeping bag and I sleep on the floor. or I get a roll-away bed. But they do charge for a roll-away bed, whereas the Hilton does not. So I did not because I'm too cheap. So I just bring that. But it's not like I had to wedge my sleeping bag between the two beds or a bed in the wall. It was just like, here, have this one-fourth of the room, Dennis, to be your little hovel.
    5:57
    Your hovel. And we all told you, just get the roll-away. It was fine. It was an extra $10. Nobody cared but you. We do this on the cheap. Nobody but you cared. It's still, because of the change in gas, the gas was so much cheaper to go around. Eric was very excited when he was running the numbers and saw how much less the trip was this year. Yes. I think everyone appreciated it. And none of us would have minded spending the next weekend. I helped control it. My sleeping bag was comfy and warm. I was fine. Yes. Yeah. I just want the listeners to know, we've gone, we've shared the room across three people, and we've done it across four people. I have always, always taken the floor. Always. That's the sacrifice I make for this show. Yes, and when there were four of us, I also took the floor. We don't need to stress what you have done. Yes. You may be the glue that holds this podcast together. I was also going to take the floor this time, and you refused. No, that's right, because I had a sleeping bag, and you had a box. I have a sleeping bag. No. Because that was before we even left. I was going to bring the sleeping bag, and you're like, no, no, mine's already loaded in the car. Yeah, mine was loaded. I guess if you had yours loaded in the car first, you might have been able to make such a sacrifice, but you didn't do it. I didn't come and break into your car and put my stuff in the car and say, mine's already loaded. We could have taken your van.
    7:18
    We could have taken my van. Yeah. And that would have been awesome. It would have. It would have only cost us 13 or 14 times as much in gas, because, you know, six miles a gallon compared to 35. On the other hand, we still wouldn't have had to fill up too often because it does have a 40-gallon gas tank. That's right. There you go.
    7:39
    When you need a stretch bank, you just do a couple laps in the back of the van. Yeah, that's exactly right. But then you wouldn't have had to sleep on the floor because you could have just slept in the van. That's right. I also wanted to get a magnet sticker for your van that said, free candy.
    7:54
    Yeah, that joke has been made to death. I know, but I can't help it. I'm still a little tired and maybe a little punchy. All right, so we liked that facility. It was about a block further walk than the Hilton was, but the other nice thing was we didn't have to cross that four-lane divided highway. Right, no, it was – Daylord Parkway is what it's called, and it's somewhat scary. It's like a Frogger moment. Especially at night. If you've had anything to drink at the main facility, I would be concerned trying to – and it really was fortuitous this time because they didn't have the sidewalk anymore. They've torn that all out right now. I think they're putting in some crosswalk stuff so it's safer.
    8:32
    They made it less safe to make it safer. Well, you've got to get down to get up, or vice versa, something like that.
    8:40
    All right, so there's that. And then trip down was fine. We hit a few little traffic patches. Normally, I was going to say always, but I can't after our return, we take I-35 down and back. It's the longest in miles, but it's, generally speaking, the fastest way to get back to the Kansas City area for us. Right. However, on the way back, this time, I don't know if I bumped something or there was a construction thing on I-35 and it changed the time estimates. Regardless, Google ended up sending us doing the 69 highway route back. And here's the thing. Let's go ahead and roll this back to how tired we were after this whole weekend. All right. Speak the words, Tony. We didn't notice that we weren't going the normal I-35 route for like 100 miles. Yes. I mean, we've been driving for like an hour. And I'm looking around like, and there were a couple times I thought, you know, I don't remember any of this.
    9:44
    Yeah. But, you know, it was last year. Maybe it was last year. Last year when we left, I was driving, so I wasn't really looking around like I'm looking around now. So maybe I just didn't pay as much attention here and there. And then we realized that we were on the wrong bloody road. There was a traffic light in the middle of the road. We were warned about an accident, so we're already slowing down a whole lot. And we're like, oh, great, another accident on I-35, big shock. And then there is traffic light. And I'm like, there are no traffic lights on the interstate. What is this crap? I don't do traffic lights. Where do you think we are? And then it's like I'm looking at the signs, and then I look at the mapping tool, and it's like, oh, we're not on I-35 north. We're on 69 north.
    10:28
    So that sucked. I mean, we got back at the same time we would have. So it wasn't an inefficient route in that regard. But the issue that why I don't like 69 and 169, ultimately it was the 69 to 169 pass back. And the reason I don't like that is, especially once you get to Oklahoma, it becomes a divided two-lane highway. And if you get stuck behind slow vehicles, it can be very difficult to pass. Now, this wasn't a big deal for us because by the time we reached that point, it was late enough in the evening that there weren't a lot of situations like that. But it did teach us a couple of things. One, I had a lot of people flashing their brights at me. And it wasn't because there were cop cars. Apparently, my – and this is a new car. I've only had it a few weeks. people were getting blinded by the headlights. So I'm going to take that in because it seems that the headlights are aimed too high up. And since it's under warranty, I'm just going to have them line them up because I had at least like eight vehicles do it. Oh, it was more than that. And my brights weren't on because when they were on, you could tell. But so that was a lesson learned because while I've done a little bit of night driving, it's always been in cityscape areas where, you know, when you've got streetlights and stuff, it doesn't bug you. But when it's dark out and you're on rural roads like 69 Highway, then it obviously does. So that was annoying. We pulled over at one point. I wanted to look, and I thought, well, maybe they're easy to adjust because I was getting really tired of people flashing their lights at me all the time. Plus, I don't want to be blinding people. So I pulled into the back edge of a convenience store area, and that's where Tony met the drug dealers. Yes. Well, maybe. I mean, I didn't really meet them. It's not like we had a conversation.
    12:08
    They offered you something, Tony. they did ask me if there was anything I needed as I was getting out I was like, oh good I didn't even know there was anybody in this vehicle there's just this truck sitting there with all the lights out then I noticed the window's a little way down this guy's just kind of peeking out yeah, and so and the thing is at this point I was extra sensitive on the drive because earlier on 69 Highway, we were passing through a town. It's a 45-mile-an-hour speed limit. I think I turned myself down to 50. It's two – it's divided – well, not really divided. There's a middle lane, a middle stripe, of course, and then it's a four lane. There was a guy in the middle of the road in dark clothes, and I did not see him. And he wasn't just on the line. He was in my lane. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him I probably would have killed him and he was listing into my car direction even after I dodged him so I assume he was intoxicated he's wearing a gray hoodie probably jeans or some sort of dark pants no reflective material he wasn't dressed for being out at night and I was just like he's just there I mean it's just like all of a sudden it's not a slow road and it's just like anyway so I almost hit him and it really bothered me because it was so dark at this point, and there weren't a lot of streetlights in the area. I didn't see him until I was right on him.
    13:46
    After that, I was awake quite well. Yeah, no, that was definitely a moment. My heart was, like, pounding.
    13:57
    No, it was very close. It was very close. That would have made the trip less enjoyable. probably. You think? Well, I'm assuming he wouldn't have survived unless I only winged him. But anyway, I did not hit him. I don't know if anyone else did because there were a few other cars in the area, but most of them were in the right lane and I was in the left at that point. But who knows where he ended up waddling out or if he fell down in the road.
    14:23
    But we didn't hit him. And then as we noted, it was actually for as far as traveling goes because the vehicle with so much more. We've normally borrowed an SUV. My mom usually loans me hers because it's got a lot of room. And I had a really smart, a cobalt before this, and I didn't want to make people sit in the back seat. Plus I had so many miles on it, I wouldn't have really wanted to do a long trip with it. Right. And that's where most of we are with my vehicles. It's either terrible gas mileage or, hey, I'm already set at 200,000 miles. Let's take a huge long trip on a car. Yeah. No one wants to enjoy the part of the trip where you're sitting in the mechanics shop. So, but yeah, it was just, it was so, it made quite a bit of difference. Actually, there were some points where on the way back, like I stopped early with only like half a tank down, mostly because I wanted a stretch break because we weren't getting out enough like we usually did. So, but anyway, so that was that. And I know it's a long, only quasi pinball related introduction. So did you want to add anything, Tony, before we move on to pinball, which will be our only topic today?
    15:30
    No, because I think most everything would be covered in the actual talking about the TPS. I mean, that's the trip up and down was just our normal stuff.
    15:42
    Okay, so let's move to pinball news. I don't know if this really counts as news, but I'm going to do it. As we said in our last episode, when we had Nick Baldridge on, who's from the For Amusement Only, the EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast, and Gaming on 10 Minutes a Week. Tony, are they now calling it Gaming on 10 or Gaming on 10 Minutes a Week is still the official name. I don't know.
    16:04
    Lately, it just seems to be referred to as Gaming on 10. Yeah, that's how I always hear Don say it, but I don't know if Nick has actually acquiesced to having a title that is not too long. Yeah, I don't know if it's actually been accepted to change it to something easy to say. Anyway, so, during that, Nick mentioned that he and his co-author of the Coin-Op Carnival publication, we're going to give a copy away to a listener. And we had a contest, and the contest was, or it's just like we had a drawing, but to do the drawing, you needed to email us your favorite EM game. And at the same time, we were also running an NV RAM, which is a non-volatile RAM drawing for a pinball machine, and similar situation, except I needed you to name a solid state game. So, I want to congratulate the winner of the EM drawing for the Coin-Op Carnival copy is Martin Reinhart. Excellent last name, by the way. And he submitted Cinegrade 37. I swear, just to make a dig at me.
    17:08
    And so, I sent that on, Martin, to Ryan and Nick. And I copied him in to his email address so he knows that they have all of his contact information to mail him a copy. Because I did the drawing before we left for TPF in case the person would be at TPF so that, you know, save on shipping and just hand it to him so they don't have to wait. But he wasn't able to make it.
    17:33
    And then for the Envy Ram drawing, when I took that list of names, because it was a slightly smaller list than the, not everyone entered both,
    17:41
    I actually had Martin Reinhart show up again with his Wonelli submission. But his name was the last one entered into the random, I went to random.org, and his name was at the bottom of each list, and I wondered if I did something wrong with the carriage returns. So I clicked, like, I just tested it. I did a couple quick clicks on the reshuffle thing or whatever, and his name did move around, so it really was just luck. So what I did is I made sure I had all the names, and I did another drawing. So Martin is going to get his. I'm going to mail it to him. He did show up first. I know that. I didn't pay attention to who was where on the test clicks. I just wanted to see if it was shuffling properly. And then I did the official draw or the official redraw, and I'm going to send a second copy, except I don't have to send it because the winner was Zach Minney of Straight Down the Middle with his ridiculous suggestion that the best USA game was Gladiators, which I don't think he's ever even played, quite frankly.
    18:40
    Probably not. Probably not, but rules are rules. So I've got Martin's RAM chip in an envelope ready for me to mail probably later this week, And then Zach was at Texas Pinball Festival, so I gave him his RAM chip that he asked for there. So that's done. Good job, Zach. Thanks for taking it away from a real listener.
    19:02
    Always got to be just being there. He's always got to be, you know. Messing everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, let's do something on Friday night. I have to work the booth till 1. You're going to say you're working the booth when you're not there for the last 30 minutes, Zach.
    19:18
    Just saying. Leaving us saying we could have been asleep. We could have. Oh, well. It just shows you what people think of our feelings, Tony. Sad. We have feelings? No, we don't. But if we did, they could have been hurt.
    19:34
    Texas Pinball Festival News. So, TPF has a lot of seminars every year. Tony and I, full disclosure, very rarely attend many seminars, if any. There have been years where we haven't sat in on any of them. Yeah. And this year, we only sat in on the Twippy Awards, which isn't really a seminar, except they use the seminar room. So, I mean, they had a lot of interesting topics, but some of the things I'd either already heard about or, again, we're not really pressed. And we're at TPL mostly to have fun. So, while I love their – It's our getaway. It's vacation. Yeah. Yeah, it's our vacation. So I don't – it's going to leak out so quickly. I find out what happens in the seminars from other people. Actually, I could find out from Pennside before I know from the people at TPF. So I only wanted to touch on a couple of them, but, again, we weren't in the room. So Steve Ritchie, we were at his seminar last year, but we did not attend this one. I did not really believe his secrets would be revealed thing, which some people were thinking he would actually reveal his upcoming game. and Stern never does that, so I don't know why anyone would ever convince themselves it would be otherwise. Because hope springs eternal. Well, people can just hope to wait a little while longer, and they'll probably know later this year. What I wanted to note, other than, yeah, he didn't really give any meaningful details about the upcoming game. He said he'll have at least two flippers, six balls, so I guess you could interpret something on that, because he's had games like Star Trek, which only had four.
    21:07
    He did stress that there were a lot of plastics in the game, like a significant higher percentage than normal. So that does make a lot of people speculate that that maybe means Black Knight 3000 because multiple play fields would justify so many more plastics.
    21:25
    So there was that. But I thought the piece of news that I thought was worth mentioning, because it's been a rumor for quite a while, is he did say, Steve is not retiring immediately after this next game. He's not currently planning to retire. He still likes what he does, and he feels good. So there was a lot of talk that this was a swan song, and he was just finishing this up, and then he wanted to get – I mean, he's old enough that it completely makes sense to retire. But if you like what you do – and they – you know, John Borg is on a much more aggressive pace in terms of game output than they have Steve Ritchie. So if they just said, okay, Steve, we're only going to expect a game out of you every 18 months or something, you know, that's not – it's not retirement. You might think maybe it's only part-time work. Yeah, it could be a slowdown. Yeah, it's just like... I mean, my old man's retired, but he still has a job because he can't stand doing nothing, so he still goes and works part-time just to have some stuff to do. So anyway, but for those who are fans of Steve Ritchie, I'm sure that was welcome news that this is not just it. He still wants to keep making games, and so that's the plan as it presently stands. and that's really all I picked up that happened in that seminar that was worth noting here on the podcast the other seminar that had a lot of talk was the Jersey Jack pinball presentation and they did unveil a game it was not Willy Wonka Tony, it wasn't Toy Story either no? no oh no, so some other big new surprise that everybody has been waiting for and it's just going to shake the foundations of the pinball world almost, except if all of that was wrong, then the answer would be another Wizard of Oz. Oh, yay. So now, the, which I think I had heard on Head to Head Pinball months ago, the foretold Yellow Brick Road edition.
    23:21
    So, they indicated up to 200 units in 2019, though apparently up to 500 total are possible. Yeah, a limited edition with growing. That's great. That's great. $12,500. So what is that? That's at least $2,000 more than I think the most expensive other model they have.
    23:43
    It was very yellow. I did not play it. They did have it on the floor. They noted that there were improved mechs. Now, what does that mean? It sounds like some of the Switches were replaced with Optos. I think I also saw something about the Flying Monkey, which lifts the ball up to the upper left play field from the main play field, is being replaced with an animation. So I'm a little confused about that. Is there just like a moving magnet? I don't know how the ball is supposed to get up there anymore. I don't really know Wizard of Oz very well. It's been a long time since I played it. But, I mean, the speculation was relatively rampant, as you would expect. Why is it so expensive? Is Jersey Jack just testing the market to see just how high can they get away with? Is this that they plan to raise the pricing yet again significantly for Wonka and Toy Story, and this is testing the waters or trying to acclimate us as a group of pinheads to the new pricing model that they want to do?
    24:43
    Is it just to keep the line busy? Why are they having to do this? Is Pirates not doing well enough? And apparently there was some discussion of pirates. I believe the owner of the company, Jack, mentioned that while the license, I believe, they renewed the Wizard of Oz license, I think, for a couple more years because there was still demand. And I think he noted that he also renewed the Pirates of the Caribbean license as well, I think around the same length of time. But they currently have no plans to build more of them. And the designer of pirates, Eric, and I always say his last name, I think wrong but close, I think I always say Munier, and I don't think I'm right, so I apologize to Eric for my sloppy pronunciation. A lot of people commented I saw on Pinside that he looked very, very glum during that presentation.
    25:36
    And we can confirm that at the Twippies, he didn't look like he was in a good mood when he accepted some of the Pirates Awards. Right. But again, I don't know him. That may just be how he is when he gets up on stage. so regardless that would suggest and we'd already been hearing a lot of discussion that Pirates of the Caribbean has not been a strong seller for Jersey Jack and hey it might actually end with making Dialed In no longer the worst selling game in the company's history so and here's the thing the big important thing in my mind to remember is as much as everybody talks about as much as the pinheads talk about oh it's such a great game and it's got the greatest rules and it's the greatest playing game and all this stuff that you hear people talk about, it's still a crap thing,
    26:28
    and it's not something that's the kind of game most people are going to want to play on location, and there's still a lot of location play. And with the price point, if nobody's buying them to go on location, it's only the homeowners, and if it's expensive enough that it's only the top-end people there who can grab it, It doesn't matter how good it is. And if the theme is bad enough that nobody cares, that doesn't help either. Yeah, those are really good points. And we're going to touch on Pirates a little bit more because Tony and I did get to play it with the latest code on the last day of the show. So we'll weigh in a little bit more at that point. But I just wanted to note that coming out of the seminars. I didn't know, Tony, were there any other – I know you didn't sit in on any of the other seminars. Yeah, I didn't sit in on either. We pretty much spent our entire time running around together. So I didn't know if you had heard anything else, you know, news, quote, unquote. You don't see my air quotes, but I'm doing them. News-wise, I do. No, I didn't hear anything else news-wise. All right. I do find it interesting on the news that we have, do have here, specifically on the Yellow Brick Road that we're sitting here, what, six years since Wizard of Oz originally came out? I think so, yeah. And they're still putting out new, more expensive versions. I'll be interested to see if they sell all 200 of the up to 200 in 2019, let alone the idea of 500 total. I just find it hard to believe that there's that many people looking for a Wizard of Oz. Yes, I always find it interesting that Jack has repeatedly stated, and he keeps renewing the license, so he must be building and selling more and more Wizard of Oz games. So that really speaks to how successful the concept of that title was for people. I don't know that there are going to be a lot of people that are going to want to pay over $2,000 more for basically the same game. But, you know, I don't know. Right. I mean, here's the thing. Even with the ability to go up to 500, that's like a normal Stern LE run. And the big criticism that I often hear on the exclusivity of Jersey Jack Gaines is that Jack's limited unit counts aren't all that limited. And he has a habit of making new limited iterations. And that really irks a number of collectors who feel it undermines the value of their game. Correctly so. And normally I don't think that that market, broadly speaking, needs to be something you specifically cater to unless your business is oriented entirely around appeasing wealthy collectors. Then you have to care. Stern doesn't have to care if they vault a Lucy edition where they never promised that the Lucy edition was ever going to be limited. It might annoy people that the premium model is more popular than the LE, but, I mean, you know, that's life. Sometimes things don't work out the way you think they will. Right. And some of that also has to do with the fact that everybody got and we actually had this conversation over the weekend but everybody got a different naming convention for Oh yeah I mean because what the LE for Stern is a collector edition for Jersey Jack and the premium for Stern is the limited edition for Jersey Jack and everything. Yeah. Because there's no standardization there. So you might get an LE thinking, oh, it's the limited edition. And from Stern, you'd be right. That's the limited edition. And from Jersey Jack, that just means, no, this is the mid-range edition. Right. It's really confusing because everyone likes to do two-letter abbreviations for all of those groupings, including when the companies are talking, pretty much. So, all right, Stern's got the Pro, which is their low-end model. I know they're the only ones that call something a Pro. But their LE, well, JJP has an LE, but that's the mid-tier model, which is like the Stern Premium. but the so the collector's edition or ce is the top end as you noted with jersey jack but ce is classic edition with chicago gaming company and that's their low dollar option it's the one that's most like the original game from the 90s right now the middle tier grouping se is is uh with chicago gaming i believe se is the abbreviation for the low end model the standard edition at Jersey Jack. And then the LE version of Chicago Game is like the LE version with Stern. Who's on first? Yeah, exactly. So it's all very... I don't know. That's not really news, people, but we as some simple, humble podcasters are just saying, y'all are confusing us, and it's not your job to all get on the same wavelength here. Though I do personally feel that limited edition should probably be the highest end because it's called limited.
    31:03
    Right, and I agree with that. Because of that reason. I can understand, though, why they want to call, I mean, collector's edition, because, oh, this is the super high-end collector's special. I can understand that call, but. I do, too, and I don't actually have a problem with Jersey Jack calling something the collector's edition as their highest end, except they have limited edition as well. But when you're doing over 1,000 units, I don't know if it's limited enough in this hobby to be worth declaring limited.
    31:33
    Right. Or if you do, well, this is, yeah, this is limited. We only made 200 of this one. Yeah, but how many limited? Oh, there's nine different limited editions? Okay. Well, and the thing is, that's just a committed maximum number counts. I believe Jack has confirmed himself that if you want to actually have the rarest version of any of his games, buy the standard. That's what they sell the least of.
    31:58
    Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? But, yeah, because people like what you get for the additional upcharge is seen as worth it by a lot of people with Jersey Jack, whereas a lot of people like the value they get with a Stern Pro versus a premium.
    32:12
    So I guess we should talk about the Twippies or the This Week in Pinball annual awards for both the best of and a variety of pinball things and favorite ofs, which are a lot of write-in options that people choose of things related to the hobby. I notice a lot of people call a lot of the writings best of. They're called favorites very specifically by Jeff Patterson with This Week in Pinball because it's just a, which one is your favorite? He's not trying to say, like, which website's the best, which rookie's the best, which podcast's the best. It's just, hey, which one do you like? They're all a People's Choice Award, really, because it's voted on broadly by the community. So, while some people, again, also like to say, well, this is the Academy Awards of pinball. Well, no, it was the People's Choice Awards is a better way to describe it. The show that was put on by Greg and Zach, the Straight Down the Middle hosts, who were the hosts for the Twippies, was, I thought, pretty impressive, especially for the first – I mean, it's the second year of the Twippies. The first time they sort of live-streamed it. But Zach must have spent days' worth of man hours putting the videos together where they would – just like you'd see with the Academy Awards where it's like, And the nominees for best motion picture sound are, and then they show you parts of the clips where there's a voice overlay. They did that for all of these, including the write-in categories.
    33:35
    So the way it went was they were the hosts. They bring up a special guest or guests to announce every single one of the categories. They do a little, depending on the person, they do a little lead-in. Some of them did kind of kitschy skits or stuff. Some of them told a joke that may or may not have bombed. Some of them were just more straightforward. And then the top three vote getters would be shown in a video montage, and then the envelope would be opened, and the winner would be read out by the special guest.
    34:07
    Right. First of all, Tony and I congratulate all of the winners for their winning, for their winnings. So good job, y'all. I'm going to start with the most controversial one, and that's Favorite Podcast.
    34:22
    And I need to do a clarification here. I think I need to be careful because people get really sensitive about this one, especially online, because Tony and I do not name the podcast that won. It's the back-to-back winner.
    34:39
    And I think I need to – I don't need to justify it because I don't need to justify myself to anyone, But I want to clarify it because I think online there's a lot of speculation that podcasts that don't talk about this podcast do not do so because they're jealous or embittered in a particular way. And while we explained it when we made the decision at the time on social media, I don't think we did it on audio. And we have different listeners now, so I want to just take a moment and explain why we don't. And I don't want to take anything away from his victory. He had the most votes. He deserved to win. A lot of people find him entertaining. And I have no objection to any of that. I don't personally listen to the show because it's not my type of show. And I stopped listening a long time before we made this particular decision. The reason Tony and I don't discuss this podcast isn't about the podcast. It's about the individual who hosts the podcast and his behavior at the New York City Pinball Championships and the lack of apology for those antics. There was a fake apology that was done on an episode that was taken down. and after that happened, we agreed, along with some other podcasts, but it's not like a cabal of podcasts that are scheming against this person. It was just, yeah, we thought this person likes this sort of attention. We're not going to give it. We very rarely mentioned the show anyway because we don't listen to it regularly and so we don't really, it's not one like, like earlier in this episode I mentioned Head to Head Pinball and stuff because I listen to them. I like to listen to them. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I don't listen to all the pinball podcasts. A number of them just aren't my style, and that's fine. But I wanted to say that's why we don't name it. It doesn't have any – we're not – we weren't going to win favorite podcasts. We're a mixed gaming podcast. I know we got nominations because Tony and I voted for ourselves because – Yeah, we're those people. We vote for ourselves. But we're transparent, and I'm being transparent now about why we don't mention this person. But what I do want to mention is there were people in the audience who were booing while the Montaz was playing for this podcast. I found it highly inappropriate, completely disrespectful. Yeah. And not just to the host who was in attendance. It was disrespectful to all of us in the audience.
    36:49
    Yeah, it was disrespectful, especially because it wasn't just a single outburst. It was a continuing thing. Yes. Yeah, at first, there were some people who did – this was – again, it wasn't like the Academy Awards. It was more like the Golden Globes. It was very playful. There was a lot of, like, catcalling and hooting and stuff going on throughout it. It was supposed to, you know, be fun. There were people who playfully booed. There were a lot of people in the room who did not clap because they do not like this host. But there was just some – I went back and listened to this part on the online version. You could hear the booing, but it wasn't super loud. or like you could still hear the montage video. In the room, you couldn't hear anything. You just heard the boos. You couldn't hear the video that Zach worked really hard for, you know, putting together. It was just, it really, it just sucked. And it's like, I'm like, and so I'm just telling you guys here, as someone who does not, just not discuss this person, does not think this person has the appropriate sort of behavior to be someone that I want to listen to in this hobby and someone I will not promote in this hobby. I was disgusted by the behavior whether he was there or not it was just it was wholly inappropriate it wasn't funny I don't think it was meant as a joke anyway it was just really tacky and it pissed me off so I'm saying it now but I'm and you're right it was I mean it was one of those things I when it first started I thought okay it's something that I expected and I thought we'd hear you know one or two and then things would just go on And it was just the continuing rolling nonstop through the whole thing. It was just, it was terrible. It put a very dark shadow over what should have been a really fun night. And it really ruined the whole one section. I felt so. I think for a lot of the attendees, it really did. The podcast host, I think he fed off of it, quite frankly. He did an acceptance speech that was pretty well put together. and I think he was amused more than anything. And again, that fits his style and he's sort of a shock jock type and that's fine. But again, we gave our word and our reasoning over a year ago why we don't discuss that show and I'm still not naming him even though he won. But congratulations regardless. He has the listeners. It attracts people and he deserved to win because that's how this works. Right. It's about who did the... I mean, it's a write-in. It's not like it's some professional association that quantifies everything and does everything. There's no academy. Now, it would be interesting if there was an academy. That's something we could talk about at some point. I know that's come up in discussions with other people who have issues with how the Twippies are selected. I'm not sure, though, that the solution is really to reform how the Twippies are chosen. I think maybe there just needs to be another set of pinball awards.
    39:47
    I could see that. But, I mean, what would you do to form the quote-unquote academy? What would you put together as the criteria to pick that grouping? I don't know. It's not my job to solve it because I'm not creating those awards. I mean, you'd want a team of experts, but you need to decide what they are. I mean, here's the thing. There are all these write-ins that are favorite, and I don't mean to cheapen it in any way. And I will talk about the one that was the one I thought I might have a chance for. It wasn't podcast. Yeah, definitely not. But the favorite ofs, the write-ins, these are the – I don't mean this to sound unfair, but these are the second-tier level awards. I think the big thing that Jeff was – and he can speak for himself. He's not on, so he can't. But if he was here. I think the best ofs in picking the games, I think that was the big idea behind the Twippies, was a celebration of the games that are getting produced because the hobby is thriving. I think the other stuff is just, it's fun. It's fun. It's neat to hear about these other tangential elements. But so to me, like having a panel that actually played all the games would make a lot of sense. That's the most important thing is to say, I mean, when you think about the Academy Awards, most of the stuff is a celebration of the main actors, actresses, and people who put together particular movies. And a lot of times the winners are the films. There are certain instances where the winners are individuals as well, but it gets a little complicated. But it's like you think about all those drop-down boxes Jeff gave us. How many of those games had you not played? I hadn't played Thunderbirds. So was it really fair for me to weigh in when I didn't know what I thought about that game entirely? I never played Finalized Pirates before the vote.
    41:32
    Those are fair questions to bring up. Four, if you're putting together an academy. For people's choice, it's people's choice. You know going in what you're going to get. You can't expect everyone in that sort of situation to have experienced everything. But with a panel of professionals, you can. Like, again, Academy Awards, they get sent all the movies that are up for nomination so they can see them all.
    41:56
    Anyway, I did talk to Jeff afterwards, and I suggested that was – Favorite Podcast was the second-to-last award announced, and it was because they knew it would be controversial. deal. My suggestion, just so people know, was to actually move it up to the start because the room had a cash bar. I don't know if it would have been, if people hadn't been drinking for over an hour already, maybe it would have been less disruptive. I don't know if that's true or not. It's the only thing I could think of that would help other than dropping the award outright, which is one of the motor, I mean, people get excited about it online. Like when I see people I guess people care about the podcast one, so that would be – and it could be taken as a slight against the person who's won. And I wouldn't remove the award just because a person that I don't agree with keeps winning. That's not the – I have no interest in that. I've said my piece. I've got my opinion. People who want to listen to this show can listen to this show. People who want to listen to another show can listen to the other show. So the thing I wanted to stress, and I know we've talked a bit about this, and I'm trying to be cautious because I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone, is I think when I read online, a lot of people think that podcasters view themselves in competition with each other without really understanding how many of us are fans of other podcasts. so it's like when I go and meet Martin with Head to Head or Jason with Slap Save, Ken and Bill with Special Enthusiasts, I like these shows. I listen to them. I don't like listening to my own show. I already somehow know what I'm going to say, but I like listening to other shows. So I get – I mean I knew we weren't going to be in the top three. I wanted to see – it's like I had like, yeah, oh, that was a good one except for Twip. Zach made me look stupid on that video. At least the boos were still going. And he started to boo his own video to kind of be fair because it wasn't fair to the winner that no one could hear his video who was in the room. And so he started booing the Twip podcaster. And he played a segment where he made me look dumb or tried to. So screw you, Zach. Yeah. Don't think that missed my littlest wreathed in flame eye. I saw that. I haven't gone back and watched the clip from the video yet were they able to hear anything from the audience on that clip or was it just what was on the mic? oh when I yelled? yeah when you yelled no I couldn't hear it okay I did yell out I thought it was a again there were a lot of us trying to lighten the mood at that point and I immediately thought maybe I shouldn't have because I think some of the people sitting in front of me let's just say I yelled BS but I actually spelled it out to keep this clean When the part said that I lost our debate on Hobbit, which twofold, one, I don't lose, and two, not about Hobbit, I don't. So anyway, and then by the way, I thought, ooh, some of this audience is now not sure who's joking, who's being serious. And Zach already knows that I don't really care if people make fun of me. So anyway, he thought it was – I could tell. He heard me. He thought it was funny. I could tell his reaction on the stage. There was one other stage reaction. We'll get to it a little bit later. that was interesting and a lot of people misinterpreted it, I think, so I want to comment on it. But let's start running through some of the other stuff. Oh, as we noted already, we both wrote in our own podcast for Favorite Podcast. So, of course, we were wrong. We didn't win. I know it's a big shock. Yeah, no kidding. It's amazing. I know everybody's in shock. We have gone through denial and anger and all that. We're working our way through the stages. but yes, we'll be strong we'll try again next year so hopefully the stages go faster when we lose yes, hopefully so anyway, I know that was a lot but I thought we needed to weigh in why we don't name this particular podcast because I know we never did it audibly and I don't want to seem like we're doing it because we're upset that we didn't win but the audience deserves to know why I don't think anybody honestly would think it would be because we were upset because we didn't win? Because I think anybody who listens to this show fully expects that we in no way, shape, or form thought we were going to win that. Yeah, I mean, I would hope to agree, but I figured a little transparency won't hurt. We don't really interact with that host anyway, like off-air or anything, we don't. I mean, I don't think they listen to us. We don't really listen to them. I used to, but I'm... But moving on, both figuratively and literally, favorite YouTube channel. So straight down the middle, one. That's what I voted for. That's what I voted for, too, if I remember correctly. I'll get the number called up. I've got it somewhere in here. But if I remember off the top of my head, because that's the only pinball YouTube channel I watch. I do watch Papa as well, and I really like Bowen's tutorials. but I put in more eyeball time on straight down the middle for entertainment purposes. I don't actually usually watch every Bowen tutorial. I load it up if I want to learn about a particular game. So that's, again, it's just how I choose to consume the media. And then Buffalo, I've watched them from, I've watched Rudy Soup on Buffalo in particular a couple of times. He can be really entertaining when he's streaming but he kind of does what I do but like better in terms of when I throw up a pinball stream on Twitch. It's kind of like that. But they have their own YouTube channel. So anyway, straight down the middle. I don't think that was a surprise to anyone. Another non-surprise, at least to me, though I didn't vote for anything in this, was Favorite Pinball Mod, and Penn Stadium won that again. So that's a two in a row for them. Yeah, I didn't vote for that because I don't have a machine, and I don't put mods. So obviously I haven't done anything with mods, and I don't pay any attention to that stuff. I will say this year I got a really good look at Penn Stadiums, and I can see why people like them, especially with older, darker games. Yeah, no. Again, that's why I'm not surprised that they keep winning. It's the one mod that works with just about any game, which is a huge advantage in a popularity vote like this, a people's choice vote. Very much so. I mean, one of the other top three was Color DMD, which is the other one that would be, but again, it only works in DMD games, so it's already got a leg down, like opposite, let's see, opposite leg up, Like, arm down. It's gone arm down from Penn Stadium. And then the third one was a mod that was just for Wizard of Oz. So think about that, about how exclusive that group is compared to these other two. And you can see, I'm sure that was the order, too. Penn Stadium, followed by Color D&D, followed by Flying Monkey Mod. Yeah, and part of me is curious just how big of a difference in number of votes it was between the first two and the Flying Monkey Mod. And, you know, Jeff Patterson might end up releasing that. I think he did last year. He released and went beyond the three. I think he mentioned to me afterwards he was thinking about going maybe five deep in terms of showing the nominees, which, again, I think is sort of like the Academy Awards. But they felt like, and I agree with this decision, doing three was much better from a time perspective. They wanted to keep it to about 90 minutes. And there were a few segments that video-wise with the clips ran a little long. And so I wouldn't go to five. No, I think the three is perfect. But feel free to go five or ten deep even when you post the vote results and stuff. I think that's cool. Let people who want to nerd out on that do that, but not during the ceremony. This was good. Doing just three was good. I want to see the three votes that we got.
    49:28
    I had someone, I can't remember who it was, who said that they thought we were in the top grouping on podcast, which didn't make any sense to me. Yeah, no. I think they got confused. I think they may have gotten confused on publication, which I'll weigh in on a little bit. But next up, actually, is favorite homebrew pinball machine. And the winner was Nightmare Before Christmas, which does not surprise me, given all the buzz I've been hearing about it. I didn't vote for a favorite homebrew. I didn't vote for one either. That's not a group that I really follow. No, nor in my case. I do listen to Pinball Nerds, a pinball podcast, which I just started up not too long ago. It's a very prolific podcast, South Canada. Much like how prolific Jeff Chielis is, except this is far more prolific. And I think he's streamed Nightmare, or was on the stream of the Nightmare Before Christmas on Twitch. I didn't see it, but I heard about it. And I've actually never seen Nightmare played. I've seen pictures. I haven't seen gameplay. But that's my own fault.
    50:30
    Let's see. Rookie of the Year. Keith Elwin won. I did vote. I did vote for him. so I think I left that one blank too yes that one I left blank because that was the one that it confused me what rookie meant? well no I understood it's just yes it's the first game he's put out for a company but I mean he's done other stuff before when it comes to that one and that's the way with almost all these people there's so few people that you could consider rookies and that would be well known to anybody outside of a group If I was going to go with Rookie of the Year, the most likely thing that I think Rookie of the Year would be, I would pick maybe some of the new people who just recently started turning up at tournaments and being part of the group in the local Kansas City area.
    51:20
    So looking at it bigger, and I understand what they meant. I mean, I'm not confused. What do they mean by this? You're not an idiot. I'm not an idiot. I had a hard time going, oh, yeah. Because we talked about this originally when we put it out, and it's like, yeah, this is, it's like, okay, I guess technically because it's his first actual put out fully produced game, but I don't know. I just left it blank because I didn't have any happy. Do you think that that award should be one they continue to give out?
    51:53
    I don't know that that's an award that they'll be able to continue to give out. And that is simply because as a conversation that was had over the weekend, honestly, I don't remember who all was there because we had a lot of conversations this weekend. But, I mean, we're going to be rolling to a point where a lot of these things are going to be hard because some of the groups don't put out a new game every year. So we're going to hit years where there's going to be, I mean, when it comes to games, is only going to be Stern, or there's not going to be any new big artists or new big designers. It's the same old, same old. So it's going to be harder to do this one. I think the rookie of the year one is one that is probably going to be one of the hardest to continue every year. Yeah, I agree. All right. Next up, again, these aren't the order they were announced in. This is the order I typed them in. Favorite pinball website. So Pennside won that. I am not surprised. I voted for Pinball News, which wasn't one of the top three. I voted for Fun with Bonus. Which also wasn't one of the top three. Nope. A lot of good choices, though, out there for fun ways to read stuff. I'm actually, Steve's site's a good choice. I actually like to click on the links and see what little, I think he does little funny write-ups. Like, I'll see a link to Pinball Profile, and I'll click on it just to read how Steve described the episodes. I don't want to say it's dramatically different. it's truthfully what happened in the episode but sometimes he'll latch on to certain weird things that were said and just kind of make it be like that's what the episode was about yeah that's one of the reasons I like it as well and I will put out I do want to say that again the pinball related website that I use the absolute most is This Week in Pinball but it once again falls into that gray area thing I wasn't willing to vote for This Week in Pinball right right and it was one of the top three so and I understood that it was eligible for voting but again and they probably thought it would like they didn't communicate that but they it would have been weird to also so I don't know how you solved that but right it was what it was uh favorite pinball location Logan Arcade which I saw there was a little like mini Facebook campaign to get votes for Logan Arcade and it looks like it worked I've never been to Logan but I'd like to go if I ever get to Chicago area but of course I vote for the 403 club because it's got the most best maintained games in the Kansas City era?
    54:20
    I voted for 403 Club. Favorite pinball convention? Texas Pinball Festival won. I voted for that. So did I. I voted for a winner. You voted for a winner. That's very predictive. It's not just picking from a drop-down. Favorite pinball tournament? No shock whatsoever. I'm still amazed this was created as a category because I think it's always going to be pinball winning this.
    54:45
    This is probably the category that I most think needs to go away. Yeah, I mean, and there was no one there to accept the award, which again, it's just, I mean, unless you're at TPF, why would you be? Right. Yeah, I just didn't see the point in it. I didn't vote in it at all. I didn't write anything in.
    55:04
    I mean, I'm not even sold that. I mean, favorite pinball convention makes sense. It would have been weird to have been at TPF and have something that wasn't TPF. Oh, I don't know. Think of the salt. Right.
    55:15
    Oh, yeah. Yeah, but the tournament one, I don't think that's one because Pinberg is such a touchstone that I don't see, like you said, it ever losing. So what's the point of keeping everything thrown up there? I agree. Favorite Twitch streamer? Deadflip won second time in a row, and that's who I voted for. Yep. I didn't. Oh, that's right. You didn't. I voted for us. Yay. We got to vote. I want to see where we shake out in that. That would be nice. I've been so bad at streaming. I'd probably be the only one. Yeah, I have not returned to the video game streaming in a while. I need to. I've done a few pinball ones. Get stuff reorganized and reset up. Post-burgling, I've done a couple. But with starting the new job and everything, even though I work from home a lot more, I just, by the end of the day, because right now I'm in that mode where I was like from like 7.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Other than grabbing a bite to eat, I just sit in front of the computer because I'm like, I need to work. I'm trying to learn everything about the organization still. I don't feel as overwhelmed as I did at the start of the month, which is pretty impressive since it's not even been four weeks yet. I'm still at that point where I'm still trying to impress everyone. Then eventually I'll just coast and rest on my laurels forever. We've been so short in everything, as everybody knows.
    56:34
    When I come home, if I want to play games, I just want to play games. I don't want to play games and be super social, super keeping up with chat and doing all that stuff. and a lot of times I don't even have time. There's some days where I've gone a whole days where all I've done is once the kids are settled down, I might read for 20 minutes and then go to bed. Yep. All right. So that was it for the write-ins. The rest of the stuff were the game awards, not the favorites of, but the best ofs that people got to choose from a list of games. A list of games was not always the same. Some things like the Monster Bash remake were only eligible in certain categories, but other than that, the lists were consistently the same. So I won't read those all off. They were all things that came out in 2018, obviously. Best theme. The winner of best, and this was just theme only, not theme integration. The winner was Deadpool. That's what I voted for.
    57:30
    Yes. I voted for Deadpool for, I think, all but one thing in this whole grouping. The best animations on display. The winner was Pirates of the Caribbean. I voted for Deadpool on that. I voted for Deadpool. But I agree, the display, the way the animations are integrated into Pirates, I think makes sense to me. It does make sense, but I had limited experience with it at the time. Right, so I understood that one. Best Light Show, Pirates of the Caribbean won that one. I voted for Iron Maiden for Best Light Show.
    58:01
    I put Deadpool in. Okay. I also could have seen Monster Bash Remake, because what they did with the changes for the lighting was pretty cool. Right, and it was in the final three. Yeah, yeah. And Pirates, again, that one made a lot of sense to me. Best Toys and Gimmicks, Pirates of the Caribbean won that, and that's what I voted for in that one. I didn't. I voted for Deadpool. No, you liked the little spring-headed lady Deadpool. I liked spring-headed Deadpool. Little Deadpool is awesome. And it was in the top three. Little Deadpool got a front and center shaky shake shake in the montage. Shaky shake shake. Best Theme Integration, Pirates of the Caribbean won this. I voted for Deadpool I voted for Deadpool And actually not to put lemon juice in the wound I really don't see Pirates deserving theme integration. I don't think it does. I don't blame the people working on the game. My issue is, if you're doing a movie-based pen, and you're doing video assets, and you don't have the actors, how can you win this? I don't know. I just – I don't – no, it could have – because here's the thing. I look at it and I go, I see easily how the theme could have been better integrated. Actually having some freaking pirates from the movie with their faces in the dang video clips. So I just – compared to how they did the Deadpool with all his, like, the X-Men comic book characters, that's really good integration. And I just – so that was my – I just – that one actually surprised me. I know a lot of people love pirates, so that's fine. Theme integration, I just don't see it. I just don't. Nope. No way.
    59:42
    Best music and sound effects. Iron Maiden won this one, and I did vote for this. I voted for Deadpool. Okay. Because that's, I told you I voted for Deadpool for almost everything. You did. You did tell me that. Best callouts. Deadpool won this. I almost voted for Deadpool on this. I did end up voting for Iron Maiden because I thought the demon voice was really cool. But the fact that Deadpool got Nolan North, who's voiced Deadpool so many times, to be Deadpool. That's why I voted for Deadpool. In a way, it probably should have just been given the award for best callouts by default. Right. But a bunch of pensiders in particular have been really salty that it wasn't the Ryan Reynolds Deadpool, because they always have to complain about something.
    60:25
    But the game wasn't based off the Ryan Reynolds Deadpool. And Mr. North has voiced Deadpool far longer. so I mean yeah but I mean it is what it is but best rules so Iron Maiden won this one I did not actually vote for Iron Maiden I voted for Deadpool I actually think the rules are more enjoyable I voted for Iron Maiden happy sacrifice I know I told you there were a couple that I voted for Deadpool awesome best play field gameplay and layout Iron Maiden won this and I also voted for Iron Maiden. So did I. Okay. Yeah, I love the layout. I think it's really cool. Yeah, it's cool. It's different. Best artwork. Iron Maiden won this. I voted for Deadpool. I was close on this, but I just like... Both were done by Jeremy Packer, a.k.a. Zombie Yeti. I just, for whatever reason, with the theme integration elements, I guess I just like the way Deadpool looks more, but what did you pick on that? I voted for Alice Cooper because I like the side art on the cap. And that one wasn't in the top three. It wasn't. And even the art on the play field, the art's really good on that game. And we've played that game before. We'll talk about that here in a little while. We will. That's an interesting one. I did want to take a moment here and mention that there was a joke that was done during the segment here, which I saw online afterwards was confusing to a lot of people watching the stream, and it was definitely confusing to a lot of people who were in the audience, and that is Stern's representative who was collecting most of the awards. His name's Mike. He actually got all of the awards except for the sound award, that sound effects award that Iron Maiden won because Jerry Thompson was in attendance. So he picked up that award because he's the one who did the sound. But Christopher Franchi had come up behind him while he was giving the acceptance speech on behalf of Jeremy Packer. And then he took the Twippy Award and curb stomped it.
    62:26
    and so I thought it was funny but a lot there were people who gasped in the office yeah it came across I mean I didn't realize I realized it was a joke when he walked up there okay I did too it had that feel to me so let me give you a little bit of behind the scenes as well because actually after this later that evening I was speaking with Christopher Franchi and this came up because there were really bright lights up there Zach and Greg were joking about him all night. So you couldn't really see the audience reaction, though Christopher did hear the gasps from the front row. So what was supposed to happen is Franchi was going to go up and accept the award outright. Because if you look and you see Mike's face, you can tell that he's just like stone-faced.
    63:17
    There was a point of confusion. Franchi was supposed to be the only one to go up and accept the award. but at some point it didn't get communicated to Mike in that way so he went up to accept the award on behalf of Jeremy Packer so Franchi went ahead and just sort of ad-libbed it to do the bit that was planned and he apparently had like a fake Twippy that was designed to be collapsible in his pocket I guess some people on the street, I couldn't see this from where I was sitting but some people saw him reach behind him and basically pull out the magic trick so that he could do the swap, so he could swap between the real The real Twippy is fine, folks. Let me go ahead and declare that. Jeremy will get his real Twippy.
    63:57
    So he took the Twippy away from Mike, and Mike wasn't aware of any of this. So he really is shocked. He's like, he doesn't know what's going on. And so when Franchi sets it down and he stomps it, the stream, the camera angles, you can't see that part. You can't see it get stomped. You can't see it get crushed. So it's like, what is he doing? It just looks weird. So the folks at home couldn't actually see what happened, so I get that. And Franchi could tell that it didn't – that it fell flat with at least some people, which is why at the end he then does that over-the-top, hey, you, and then goes away. I mean, it's just like so he really helped craft it that it was a joke. But some people didn't even – all right, so some of you need to do a little human behavior study. I don't know what else Christopher Franchi could have honestly done to make it clear that it was a joke. Because if you laid it on any thicker, it wouldn't have been funny.
    64:55
    In my judgment. Well, yeah. I mean, that was put on with a trowel. That was so thick. Yeah. But some people, and again, and this part with the people watching on the stream, I can see it. Some people who are watching the stream, again, thought this was going to be like the Academy Awards. And it's like this really formal and official thing. And it's like, I get it because you can't really hear the audience very well with the microphones that Zach and Greg are using. It was just, it was much more of a good time going on in the room. It's not like people are historically sitting there in their tuxedos with their hands clasped. We were joking around. Everyone was talking about the winners and all that. It's just, the vibe was different in person. But a lot of people in person also misread what Franchi was doing, which I don't get. but because I mean it was obvious even before he made that remark about hating Jared. I don't know. I just thought – I thought it was fine. I thought it was pretty funny, but my sense of humor is a little special I guess. I thought it was humorous. I told him as much when I talked to him later that evening. Okay. Game of the Year. Iron Maiden won that. I don't think that's a surprise. No. It is what I voted for it, though I think you voted for Deadpool. I did vote for Deadpool. Okay. Deadpool I actually prefer playing, but for what Iron Maiden did for Stern and just in terms of being something different and new designer and all that, I went in and gave it props. That's one I waffled on as well, just like I did on call-outs, because it's like, well, but technically I actually have more fun playing Deadpool, so what do I know? I'm just a simple podcaster. Just a simple podcaster. That's all I am. I don't try to be anything more. Oh, I actually, I can't believe it, because this is the one I said I was going to comment on. I did skip one of the write-in ones because we spent so much time talking about the website, and then I jumped right to the Logan Arcade for a pinball location. I didn't name who won favorite pinball publication. Oh!
    66:44
    And that went to Pinball Magazine number five, which I think makes a lot of sense. This is the one where I did tell people that, you know, it's not just books and magazines. You can vote for articles, too, and I had pushed my beginner's guide to manufacturers that ran with This Week in Pinball. I believe Jeff Patterson thought that one ended up like fifth or something in the number of votes, which is fine. I mean, it's not. I don't write. I didn't write articles to win Twippies, which is good because I didn't win one. But, whoa.
    67:16
    That's like. Yep, dropped it. Sorry. Dropped it. Dropped the mic, literally. Yeah, well, it's not like it broke into like a bunch of ice cubes, so I hope it's okay. And, but here's the thing. The one thing that you thought. I didn't care anything like about who wins in podcasts and whatever. You want to know what irked me? Here's what irked me. in the top three choices. Pinball Adventures was one of the top three. Come on, guys. Todd Tuckey doesn't even like that. It's an embarrassment. It's full of typos. All anyone ever did was make fun of that. So I hope people were just trolling voting for that because I got to admit, that one hurt a little bit. You honestly, you all out there honestly didn't think that a single one of my articles couldn't beat that toilet paper rag of a book. Ouch. Wow. Talk about cutting me to the quick.
    68:08
    Yes, right. I was like, I was so happy Pinball Magazine won, you know, a real publication. Holy cow, that one shouldn't have even been. Yeah, that was definitely a little. I was surprised to see it up there. It's not respected. I'm not joking. It's not respected. Todd is embarrassed. He was treated really poorly by the editor. That you put it up there is an insult to him and to everyone else who actually tried to write something meaningful. but at least most of the public had the good enough sense to vote for something that was deserving Jonathan's publication was deserving so I agreed they huge I think you probably saw it and it's like I had a sigh of relief when I saw it I thought oh my god that's going to win just because people know Todd Tucking and they're going to think it was a good book but Todd got treated pretty wrong so anyway so that's the twippies so I guess now for the rest of the episode we just have just some other general sort of Yeah. PPF talk. So I thought one of the things we should probably note is people. So every time we go to Texas Pinball Festival, especially I think probably more that it goes more and more. And I think that's because when you just look at raw podcast analytics, when I look at them, it's as you would probably expect unless we really, really sucked. We only kind of sucked. And the numbers do sort of slowly go up over time. We don't have those big, huge gains that some of the better podcasts have had. But what I have found at least is when we go to TPF every year, more and more people go up and they know us. They either hear our voice and they recognize it or maybe they follow us on Facebook and they see a photo that Tony put on our Instagram account or something so people sort of recognize us. But this was the most I've ever had people just come up to me and say hi. I always welcome that. I try – I'm not really an outgoing person. I do try, though, at conventions to be outgoing and meet people because that's kind of part of the point. And this year I'd say we probably spent about half the time playing games and half the time just talking with people who are into the hobby, people we already knew or people we just only spoke with online or people we'd never heard from before. But I met a whole lot of really nice people. And I'm not going to go in and say pinball people are the nicest people in the world. No, some of you guys are terrible. I'm going to tell you that. But the people I met at TPF were all very nice. No one was mean to me except when they made fun of me and sided with Zach. Well, yeah, but that's what I mean. Even I did that. That's always the wrong answer. It's the wrong answer. I am the light in this hobby. Don't fall into darkness and despair. I mean, how many times were you walking and we just randomly hear a comment about how good Market Trends is? I actually I don't even think you were with me maybe you were I was walking down to someone I was trying to find someone at the hotel bar I was there we were going to try and meet Dr. and Mrs. Penn there and I was walking down and someone was walking oh no it was them they were walking the other way they had to go get something and one of the people with them said I love Market Trends what I said is not allowed to be said on this show because we're a clean podcast yep Tony can confirm I was very cruel about it I don't apologize either because I was right but okay so let's see just in terms of a few people to note I should have I'm terrible with names and I should have I'm not going to go around and take notes to just name drop people but a few things to mention now I'm going to try I'd already had probably more to drink than I should have when he explained me how to pronounce his name but I believe it's pronounced Rorden Rodden I had it spelled right at least from Australia We were at the same hotel as he was. He was the bad penny of TPF. He turned up everywhere. Everywhere. Look, all of a sudden, I just hear his voice. He was incredibly nice, though. He went around. He seemed to have a really good time with TPF. We had, I think, four in-depth conversations with him. Yeah, and they were all good conversations. It was awesome. Yeah. Whatever that rum or whatever you gave him. He gave us some really, really smooth gasoline. some real gasoline yeah pure petrol was what i'm going to describe that as i mean i only had a shot of it or i i think uh three if you count three fingers as a shot and uh that was probably enough to for me but i did like his gummy gummy worms or gummy snakes excuse me but uh so anyway it was just really interesting to hear from that so uh so yeah there were a number of people up from australia but he is the one i spoke with the most um let's see who else oh we know them from kansas City, Mary Kay and Will. They've been playing competitively in Kansas City for the last few months. It was their first TPF, and we kept running into them. They're really nice people, and we see them all the time, but it's just nice that we'd have times where we'd just sit and we'd talk with them at TPF. They'd come up. We'd just run into each other. We weren't at the same hotel either, but they'd turn up, and we'd talk with them. That was one thing that I really liked this year is while we played, we did. I feel like we talked to a lot more people than we ever have before. We spend a lot more time talking to new people. Yeah. I tried this time to make a concerted effort to do more of the social activity stuff. It's easier now because we've played so many of the games at this point. So we still played a lot of games. We got photos and photos of scores watching my glorious victories repeatedly. But, yeah, we did take the opportunity to meet and speak with a lot of people.
    73:46
    Dr. and Mrs. Penn, I had never had a chance to meet them before. We actually tried to make plans with them a couple of times, but, of course, they're so popular that they're off always doing other stuff with the real people in pinball. I had some great conversations with them. I played Oktoberfest with them, and then we met them while they were in the tournament on the first day. And actually, Mary Kay had wanted a Mrs. Penn shirt, and she was wondering, oh, I wonder, will Mrs. Penn have swag at the event? I'm like, I'll just ask her. She was on our show. She did that trivia game, which was one of my favorite things anyone's ever subjected us to on our own show. I was going to tell her that, but we were so busy, I just completely forgot to give her that compliment. So if she hears this, I love that trivia thing. It was fun, especially because I won, so I like it. You won a trivia game.
    74:33
    Hey, hey. I need these. I need this. Okay? I need this. And anyway, so yeah, she brought a shirt for Mary Kay, and Mary Kay was able to hook up with her before we even were over at the event. She already had the shirt, and she added it on the next day. It was cool. Yeah. That was cool. That was neat. It was neat to meet them. Oh, Jack Danger. He was one of our earliest guests we ever had. And he's at a lot of these shows. But he was out on the West Coast for a Twitch thing. Yeah. So he wasn't there the first day, but he came in on Saturday. And we never actually, I mean, he's been there while we've been there before, but he's always so busy that we've never really gone and actually talked to him or anything. And I was playing Munsters with a few other people who I think recognized my voice or something. and Jack was moving a sign over and he saw my name tag. He's like, oh yeah, Dennis. But later that day, you, Tony, you were very explicit. You were like, I am talking to Jack Danger. Yes, I was. Well, but he's so busy and you're like, he's always busy and I always just don't do it because he's so busy and I don't want to interrupt him, but I want to interrupt him this time. And so you did? Yep, it was awesome. Yeah, he was nice. We put a picture up on Facebook of that because we finally went ahead. I asked him if we could just get a photo of him because he's so short. I wanted to show just how tall I was.
    75:51
    Jason, yes, people, if people think I'm serious, you need to see the photo, and I understand. I'm a little shrimp. I'm just a little, I'm just a little guy. I'm a little fry. I'm too small. I wish I could say it. That's my favorite line from KC Game Con, is Tony's, I'm so small when his hair gets, I just love it. So it's like, that's best random comment, Twippy, make it happen. That would definitely happen. And I want, And I want Tony from last year to be in contention because it's so adorable.
    76:21
    Jason Fowler with the Slap Save podcast, one of the newer podcasts that's out there, based in St. Louis. He and his co-host Chris. Chris wasn't there, but Jason, I did not run into Jason at all. He actually was speaking with someone else who then came and saw me and said, oh, Jason would like to talk with you. He's over at the hotel bar, hotel in the main convention facility. So Tony and I went, and we probably had a two-hour conversation. Jason, extend my apologies to your wife, because I know you told her that you would be right up, and I know that I tricked you into staying longer by, I don't really remember everything I said, but I'm sure it was very clever. There was lots of interesting conversations and nothing at all inappropriate and horrible. Yeah. And we did not, we absolutely did not maybe drink too much. that is Rodden's fault.
    77:18
    I drink a lot more than you do. Well, yeah, but you can hold it better. I'm always very transparent that I'm a lightweight. I very rarely drink. I usually only do it socially.
    77:32
    I just don't do it very much. Anyway, so it's just like I had enough after whatever the rum stuff was he gave me.
    77:41
    The rum stuff? We had that. That was, I enjoyed that. But I'm not sure. It made my teeth feel fuzzy, though, because, wow.
    77:49
    And then Will and Mary Kay gave me a bourbon and seven, and Jason shared some scotch with me, and it was a good evening. He bought me a hard cider, Jason did, which is what I normally prefer to drink to beer, actually, because I don't actually care for hops. so yeah no but I'm sure Jason found out I'm in no way like the character I play here on the podcast I'm much more reserved and down to earth than normal just like Tony knows so I'm sure that was very good there's a point so much more reserved I'm more so much I don't say these things I say I'm completely different in person just you all if you ever meet me at a show just you just ask and find out and actually there was a point before that that that Rodden was talking to us and he asked me, so what's it like to, when I'm interacting and I talk to you, Dennis, and I already know everything about you already. And I said, what? I play a different person on every show I've ever been on because no, you don't. I'm like, oh, well, I thought I was. So I try to. As I told someone once we were getting ready when I was guesting on the show and I asked them how they wanted me to be on the show. They said, just be you. And I remember saying, they're all variants. It's all just a different approach. Like, because Tony and I interact differently than how I interact with Zach, the flow is different because just of what we agree on and what we don't agree on. That's all I mean by it. Oh, Ken and Bill with Special Unlit. I finally got to meet them. I've actually corresponded with Ken for months and months and months about streaming and podcast stuff behind the scenes. I really like their show a lot. They're a newer show as well. They came about, oh, I think it was maybe, I shouldn't say newer. I think they've been out over half a year now. and that's long in the podcast world but they've got a really entertaining show I saw their shirts on people all over the place, they're the ones that have the tiki girl yeah that's a good shirt I do like that shirt it's a good shirt so I got to meet them for a moment I thought I'm never going to run into them I haven't seen them all show they're probably out whining and dining with the elite and powerful in the pinball hobby but I actually ran into them in a hallway which a lot of what happens in TPF happens in hallways So there's that. Steve Bowden. I didn't know if I was going to get to talk to him. We talked to him last time quite a bit, the last TPF. But he was so busy winning tournaments and lasting as long as possible. I didn't see him until the last day, but we talked for a little bit.
    80:16
    I'm going to probably say her name wrong. Emoto. That's how I always say it. Of Emoto Arcade. I wanted to say hi to her because she's talked to me a few times on Facebook. She's got an interesting Facebook page. So if you're not following it, you may want to check it out. She does a lot of what I describe as videography at various arcade events. So this is a lot. If you like to nerd out on that sort of stuff, her Facebook page is a good way to consume a lot of shows and such.
    80:41
    Oh, Greg Bone. We had breakfast with Greg Bone the last day. Yes, we did. I've never actually talked with Greg before. Well, I kind of have through Zach. Like one time Greg called while we were recording this week in pinball. I think Zach actually left that in the episode, if I recall. Yes, he did. Because, yeah, I was like, that's one of the few pinball shows that I still, pinball podcasts that I still listen to because I've purged all my podcasts down the line. All you podcasters listening, Tony's rejected almost all of them. I haven't rejected all of you. I've rejected because I got to the point where I was having like 80 plus hours of podcasts to listen to in a week.
    81:27
    Yes, it can be very consuming. It can be. So, yeah, we talked about it. And we'd seen him the day before and talked a little bit while they were still prepping up for the Twippy stuff. So it was sort of interesting to hear the behind-the-scenes. They didn't know who would win or anything. I wouldn't ask that question. But just all the work going on behind the scenes is really interesting. Or it's interesting to me. We saw Zack. We never actually did anything with Zack. This is the part where we need to talk about how Zach bailed on us. Yeah, that happened a lot. Well, the first night really stands out because he explicitly said he wanted to do something with us after the show ended at 1 a.m. And you and I stayed up. We were in that general vicinity as of 1230 playing games, talking with some people. He wasn't at his booth the entire time. And I hear the next day he went to bed. it's like I could have gone to bed you all needed sleep I could have too yeah with the sleep I don't know I lost all of mine so anyway Zach bailed on us but I saw him trying to sell Escalera so if you need an Escalera go into Flippin' Out Pinball he'll probably sell you one don't ask him to give you a showing on Stair Step though he might not be in his booth to do it oh Ron with Slam Tilt Podcast you and I were on Slam Tilt Podcast a few months ago so So we – and we'd had Bruce on before. Bruce wasn't at the show, but we'd had Bruce on our podcast before. But we had like a 45-minute conversation with Ron at the end of TPF. So that was just – he's a very interesting person. He is as I would expect he would be from his show. But I think because Bruce is so outgoing, you could miss a lot of Ron's deeply held snark unless you actually are interacting with him in person. What I like about Ron is that, like myself, he holds very firmly, strongly entrenched positions that he feels are truthful about pinball. Not as refined as mine. Of course. But pretty good. Pretty good. For someone with as much experience as he has, I would expect it. But pretty good. We met Nick Baldrige, who we had on the last episode, and Ryan Claytor. Yes. It was nice. At least I've talked with Nick online several times on Discord and this and that, and we've had him on the episode and stuff. and his video game podcast that he does with Don is one of the podcasts that I still listen to regularly. Yep, and Ryan, I know, has a, it's not in the gaming realm, but he does have a podcast on comic books, which, given how he interacted, I thought he would probably be pretty good at podcasting, so I guess he has practice at it. But it was nice to finally meet him. I'd only corresponded with him via email a little bit when we were trying to set up the episode with Nick, and unfortunately, we just couldn't accommodate Ryan at that time schedule.
    84:19
    So that was really neat, and I got to try the multi-bingo, so that was fun. It's a luck box, so it's fun for that. Yeah, it was very enjoyable. It was the best custom game, and you deserve to. You deserve to. It was my first real time I've done anything with a bingo, and I enjoyed it a lot. So we got to do that. As you and I both noted earlier, we got to speak with Christopher Franchi. I've corresponded with him very, very briefly on Facebook, but he and I have actually had very little interaction.
    84:52
    So I spoke with him after the Twippies, and then he actually sat with us when we were at the bar later that night. Yeah. It's kind of neat because he has – I've already heard from other people because he's got a really dry sense of humor, which mine can be that way too. So that's sort of like, okay, yeah, it's interesting. I always like, if you can't laugh, life is sad. That's my philosophy. So, oh, Dwight Sullivan, the programmer for Stern, does a lot of the rules for games. Like Munsters is his most recent game. So I said hi to him after the Twippies, which he said I don't look like my voice. That's not a surprise to me. No, I do look like my voice. No, you don't. And he also said that, well, but then he said he thought I'd be a lot older. He made me feel like I was five. Like, I am old. I'm 40. Come on. You go through things and you've got the kind of obsessiveness that, when it comes to this, that would be expected as somebody, you know, with an extra decade or two on you. Okay. Okay. I don't think, I didn't think so. Oh, I met Mark, I'm going to say his name wrong, Ghidarelli. Ghidarelli? I'll just say Mark. He actually, he's the senior systems engineer with Stern. And the reason why this was interesting to me is because when I wrote an article, which didn't win a Twippy, about the Stern spike system. And I contacted the marketing director, Zach Sharp. And he said he was going to talk to someone to get the information for him. It was Mark who knew all the information. So Mark was very aware of the article because he had to supply all the information. Because I said, oh, yeah, I reached out to Zach for that stuff. And he's like, Zach didn't give you anything. I had to do all that work. And so we talked quite a bit. He gave me a very beginner-level overview stuff, which was the goal of the piece. But he's like, if you ever want to write something more in-depth, just contact me directly, and we can get you all sorts of data, and we can really go into the system in a lot of detail. Which I don't know if Zach Patterson wants something like that. But the opportunity exists. As we mentioned on an episode not too long ago, they're in the process of or have already released the, I'm not quite sure, the schematics on Spike. So there's a lot more data that can be had about that.
    87:19
    Jeff Patterson with This Week in Pinball, of course. Of course. He was in our hotel. I didn't realize it. I think he and Greg Bone were sharing a room. But, Jeff, you weren't down early enough for breakfast. Tony and I eat breakfast early. Yes. Yeah, I wake up at like 6, even when I want to sleep in. Even when I go to bed half drunk at 3, I'm still awake at 6. Mm-hmm. So. So, oh, I met Taylor Reese with this Flippin' podcast. He came up to me when I was playing Munsters, and we talked for a little bit. I met Crystal Gimnich when I was talking to Emoto. She accepted the award for Logan Arcaden, did one of the presentations. So I'd heard her before, and that was really cool. Jeff Rivera we met him last time at Pinball Podcast He was going around getting 100 selfies Yeah that was pretty cool The one put up on Facebook was pretty cool also the little groupings of it And I still remain undefeated Yes, because you didn't play against him. It was me who was destroyed. We don't need the details shared on the episode. Let's just say he's been unable to take me down ever in the game of pinball. Maybe next time. Maybe. And then, oh, this was a highlight for you, for you, Jeff Willis. Yes. I got to meet Jeff Teolis, who I like and think has the best voice in pinball. Well, he was talking up to you so much, I thought he was a hoover. Well, no, see, just good voices just come together. It's just like that. So that's why you're the glue of this show. That's why I'm the glue of this show. Okay. I'm the everyman. I'm the one people are like, oh, yeah, I would know that guy. You're the one everyone wants to go to because you have so much knowledge and you've got such deep cuts. But I'm the guy that people are like, yeah, I know somebody like him. Or, yeah, he's just a good friend kind guy. I keep telling myself that as I lay curled around my pillow trying myself to sleep at night. And there are other people who just said, you know, hey, I like the show. I think there was a Mark said that. Aaron on the last day came out. He won one of the gaming awards that Texas Pinball Festival gives out for an EM restoration. So that was really cool to meet people like that. I didn't know if there were any other names that kind of stood out to you.
    89:37
    One that I actually talked to, and I'm going to feel horrible if I get this wrong, but I'm going to balance this with I was half drunk, was Mark from SD Pinball on Twitch was there while we were talking. Oh, yeah, the guy with the beard at the end. yeah and we and and i i talked to him about video games for a fair while that evening while we were talking with teolis and and and and franchi and and jason and rodden and everybody was moving around as part of that whole group thing and it was nice to meet him and that was pretty yeah i felt bad i felt like i wasn't interacting with him enough that is far away on the other end of the table and i'm not that interesting so that there's well yeah yeah again that's part of when you've got a table that has like nine people at it, you don't have to interact with everybody at the table all the time. Okay, so, yeah, that was like, oh, as I think back on it, this probably sounds like just a big name drop fest. So just deal with it. We're already past the news. All we can do is talk about what happened at the show and talking to people was a big part of what happened.
    90:39
    It was. And, again, this is something that in years past we've concentrated on playing as many games as possible. And we'd say hi to people and we'd chat a little bit, but we mainly just went as fast as possible from game to game to game to game for the whole weekend. And we didn't do that with all of the games. But we did make a concerted effort to play newer sort of stuff. So let's talk a little bit about that. Let's start with Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. We did play that game at last year's TPF where it was revealed, but the code was exceedingly rudimentary, and now the game is in a developed state. So we wanted to play it again. And you mentioned the ball save. What are your general thoughts on Alice Cooper?
    91:23
    It seems to be very, very generous with the ball saves. It does have that ball save where you can sell save, and the magnet will catch the ball from draining and throw it back up on the field. That's cool.
    91:40
    But it did seem like I would have a lot of ball saves that would otherwise be drains. And I think part of it is just because at least in one case there was the one scoop, it would kick out and it would drain, I don't know, a third of the time it kicked out. And there was a ball save on it. And there were a couple other ways to earn ball saves. It just felt like I got a lot more ball saves than I'm used to. I know. I could see that. I didn't experience it quite as much, but I wasn't in the scoop all that. Most of the scoop shots I was able to save. the scoop was bent to, I assume, try and stop that problem, but it was... Right. Of course, or it could be that somebody had airballed onto it, maybe, and it was bent and that was what was causing it. Maybe. The bend in it was so egregiously sharp. I have to assume it was done by manual means. I don't think the ball could have done it, but again, depending on the power settings and the power draw that happens in a thing like this, what may have cleanly fired to a flipper in a normal power use settings in convention hall settings may have just been too weak, and so what was actually supposed to go to a flipper was just more dribbling out and going down the middle sort of thing, if that makes sense.
    92:57
    Actually, I thought the game looks interesting. You found your shots very quickly on it. For me, the shots felt off. Off's not right. well, off for me. They're not in the places that Borg or Richie would put their shots, so I was bricking a lot of shots, but I liked what was there in terms of the shot layout, the integration with the upper playfield. Like you mentioned, the ball save. There's a lot there that I think is really interesting. I did not like the Rob Zombie layout at all.
    93:32
    The America's Most Haunted layout was very rudimentary. Total Nuclear Annihilation, I'm setting aside because that's a Scott Nieske game, and it's got its own single-level thing it's trying to do, which is a lot of fun. But this, with its Castle of Grayskull-looking castle, and what all the shots there were there, and the way it kind of... I actually thought this, I think, has a lot of potential. I thought, even though I wasn't doing well on it, I thought this was a fun game. I thought it could be a fun game. I think if I'd spent more time with it, I would have liked it more. Yeah, I do too. It was definitely more fun. After Rob Zombie, I came in not expecting much, and I actually enjoyed it. And as you mentioned during the Twippy section, the game looks great visually. It does. Visually, it's amazing. And actually, I like the soundtrack. Yeah, I wasn't sure what to expect of it, but I was bopping my head along to the music like that. In a lot of ways, yeah, it's kind of like a, it reminded me of TNA in several ways. I mean, I do like the Total Nuclear Annihilation layout more, but what they're doing with the rules in this is exploring the castle sort of thing to build up points if you want to go fight a monster. I like all that. I was pleased. I thought this was – I think this is going to be good. Spooky, I think, has already sold them, so I can't say it's going to be good for Spooky because I think it already was good for Spooky. But nonetheless, it has the Dennis and Tony's feel of approval. so I liked it more than the next game we're going to discuss Jersey Jack's Pirates of the Caribbean but everybody swore that it's the greatest game and every time it came up that's the thing everybody cheered for in the Twippy and that's fine I didn't hate I'll start with this one and then we'll let you get your word in some people may have seen on our Facebook the little video I took of you Well, you played the game. Tony and I last played Pirates of the Caribbean at last year's Texas Pinball Festival, which was still the prototype unit. So this was the first time we had played the finalized version with the latest code set. I felt, I don't know if it was the setup or the changes like with the spinning disc or whatnot, the game felt less safe than it originally did, which I think was good. My very first game on the prototype, my ball time was really long. This wasn't short. It was longer than my Alice Cooper times were. The shots felt like I knew where these shots were. So from a comfort level, I really enjoyed that aspect of it. There were some things that, again, maybe you can tweak this with setup, but there was the horseshoe shot in the center, which seemed really to have a propensity to just fling itself down the middle. Yeah, I took a bunch of drains that way. And it seemed like people who were full plunging often were having their ball immediately drain down the middle and possibly get two house balls in a row, depending on if they took steps to alleviate that after the ball save kicked in. So there was that. So that aspect of it didn't really please me very much.
    96:38
    The character selection, I just went really quick and just picked one that I thought sort of sounded like something I could use. I won the game of three we were playing, and the only reason – I didn't get a multi-ball. The only reason I won is I plundered the second highest player's points, and he would have won had I not done that. We did the math afterwards to find out. Just to prove it. No, I mean, here's where I am on it. I like the geometry for a wide body. I still think the geometry is pretty good. I think it's a more fun game with what little, and again, I have very little time on it, But what I have on it, I think I would have more fun with this than I ever did with Hobbit, and I think it plays a lot better than Wizard of Oz ever played. So out of those two games, I'd say, if I were just to rank them currently, I would probably go ahead and put Hobbit, excuse me, no, I would not put, I put Hobbit number three, and I put Pirates at number one, but I'd still rather have Dialed in. Yes. So what were your thoughts? I mean, you mentioned, again, you agreed with me about the unfair straight down the middle drain situation that was going when you made. And this is when you made the shot, by the way. This is not like you didn't get up a ramp and then it just pissed down the middle on you. Yeah, that was the annoying thing is, oh, look, that's the shot I have to go for. I hit the shot. Now I have to basically hope that I do not tilt it to try and save it. Exactly. Whereas, like, when you play Steve Ritchie's Stern Star Wars, when you make the horseshoe shot, it may be zipping around really fast and make you uncomfortable, but it feeds to a flipper. Right. I mean, it'll go to the flipper. It's not going to go down the middle on you. Right. I mean, at least I never had it do that. This, it was like, I just, that was part of the reason why I had, I think, a longer ball time than Tony did. I refused to, as much as possible, shoot that area because I knew it was bad. I was the closest to the people playing prior, and I watched multiple people full plunge and drain out of the middle.
    98:39
    So I always short plunged from the get-go and avoided middle shots because I knew. It's got to be a setup thing. I just have to tell myself that surely they didn't produce the game that would constantly just dip it down the middle. Yeah, I would think it would have to be. But I have to admit, it's just really off-putting when something like that happens. So it just really stood out to me. Upper play field was more challenging for me this time. I still kept falling off the right this time rather than the left. It was rocking more than the prototype did. So that was nice. It felt like a decent challenge. So I thought that was an improvement.
    99:17
    I still think the single spinning disc is a lot less impressive. Now it's just like I don't even know why it's there, quite frankly. Yeah. I'm sure. I mean, it does influence the ball. I know why it's there, but it's just not the same. Yeah, it's not the same. It's just another thing instead of being something interesting and special. My biggest problem with this game is and has always been that I hate the theme, and I think the fact that they, with how they implemented the theme, and like we talked about earlier, you know, with the video and the theme integration and all that, that's my problem with this game.
    99:49
    Where would you rank it versus Hobbit? Are you comfortable doing that? I went ahead and did it even though I don't have really that many games on it. I think theme integration is better on Hobbit. I still think actual gameplay is probably better on Pirates. And like you, I'd still rather play Dialed In. Okay. What about Wizard of Oz versus Pirates? I'd have to play it again. I've played Woz once. It was four years ago, so it's not even close to fresh in my mind. That's fine. I understand. Okay. The third new game that we played was Oktoberfest. this one I really only got two balls on Jeff Teolis your glue hero from Canada kicked me off of this game because Dwight Sullivan wanted to play it well that's a good reason no it's not, do you know who I am? oh anyway I told him it was fine, I was cool with it I had actually watched a lot of the gameplay while I was going, because I was in a four player game We were trying to find a line that we could get in and finally get on one before the show closed on Saturday. Right. And they had one more opening, so Dr. and Mrs. Penn pulled me over and stuck me on that game. Yeah, I played with Mary Kay and Eric on another one at the same time. Okay. So we were both basically playing it simultaneously. So my thoughts, it's a long player. I actually was the worst of the people playing. And granted, the one I was playing didn't have a tilt bob in it. So I found that I was being somewhat aggressive. Probably not as aggressive as some of the better players. The side ramp shot is pretty challenging, maybe unfairly challenging. It kind of reminds me of the side ramp shot on Simpsons Pinball Party, which makes sense because balls are designed both. But most of the other shots I thought were pretty straightforward.
    101:48
    I still think that the roller coaster ramp is way longer and just showy than it needs to be. So it kind of, I don't want to say it kills the flow, but it kills the speed when you do that shot. I don't really like that. I get some people really, I think Eric liked how the ball spun with it. Again, it just depends on what you prioritize. So from a visual standpoint, it was really cool.
    102:11
    I don't care for the play field art at all. it is I think they've made some tweaks but it still seems like a cacophony of color and I don't want to say it's a bit of a mess but I just think it doesn't have an organized style to it. I remember once hearing someone, I've really stuck with this that American Pinball right now while they're doing hand drawn art, their art has a very Sega Pinball vibe from the 90s and that's just not where most of the other companies are at this point with art and if I were them since it seems like art is selling games. Well, if I loved this game, I would still be interested in it, even if it was ugly as sin. But this is not an art package that I think is holding up compared to the competition. Not at all. It's not even in the running art package-wise. So I'd need more time on it to be sure, like would I rather play Oktoberfest or Pirates? I don't know. I felt like I knew what was going on with Pirates better, and so I liked that. But there are a lot of interesting rules things that I didn't really get to explore with Oktoberfest that I know exist. So ultimately, given that Oktoberfest was the standard body, I think it would end up winning out on me. But I liked Alice Cooper better than both.
    103:28
    And I did the worst. And Tony can confirm this. I did terrible at Alice Cooper, but I still had fun. Yeah, it was... No, definitely of the games we've talked about, like Alice Cooper, Pirates, and Oktoberfest, Alice Cooper was the one I had the most fun with. So that was very cool.
    103:44
    Any other new games you can think of? We tried to play Thunderbirds, but it was broken. It was broken. And I think Eric ended up getting a game on it, but he's not on the show, so we can't ask him. Right. I know Will did. I don't know if Eric did or not. I know Will did. Okay, it probably was Will. I get mixed up. I'm a simple person. So we can't really weigh that one in, but it was there. I thought I'd touch on a few other games. That was one of them.
    104:13
    Bally's Harley-Davidson. We played a Sega one. It was terrible, as I knew it would be. It also seemed to only have one ball in it, and so you could go into one ball multi-ball. We'll actually be touching on that again in a little bit. But the Bally-Harley-Davidson I've always been curious about because Bally-Williams made that game because Premier's Silver Slugger, which was the first street-level game, was doing really well on Route. I remember reading that it made more money for operators than Diner was making. And so, Bally Williams decided to try doing a single level game in the early 90s to see how that would work. And I heard that it wasn't a great player. Now, I'd also heard, I believe it may have been on Head to Head Pinball. It was an interview with Roger Sharp, and he's brought up this game a couple of times. And he indicated that in his judgment as a player, that the problem with it was it came with lightning flippers. And so, It was really brutal, and the shots just didn't – it was harder than the game should have been. And so I don't know. I've heard – his recommendation is actually put in regular flip-flops. Regardless, there was a beautiful example. Actually, for the show, it won Best Game of the 90s at Texas Pinball Festival. They had the wrong year label. They said it was for 99. They didn't have the right one, but the photos were clear. It had a shaker motor. They had a topper on it. It was hard. It was very hard. But I thought this was really fun. And as Tony knows, I have absolutely no interest in Harley. I'm not a motorcycle person at all, much less a Harley person. But just in terms of the shots, it had the reverse in-lane, out-lane thing like Fathom. And I was just like, as a lot of people have listened to the show a while know, I really like single-level games. I don't know why. I just think that people have to get to stand out with them. You have to be creative with the layout. You can't just move your ramp around to a new place. So I just thought it was really cool. I just really liked it. But I could definitely – and they didn't make all that many of them. So I doubt it will ever be a game I would own, but it's definitely a game I would consider after getting to play it. There was usually someone on it. Yeah, I would have never thought about it. I would have never thought in my life that I would want anything Harley Davidson, especially a pinball game or this or that. But honestly, it is – it was really good. I could definitely – and again, for you, it doesn't shock me because you really like Silver Slugger a lot. That's a single-level game. it's got some interesting layout choices even though it's, you know, that's a high flow one this one's actually got fairly high flow layout too with, if you can hit the shots but it's just it was really cool, I was glad to get to play it I've always wondered about it, I actually liked it way more than I thought after hearing those Roger Sharp interviews, I thought I wouldn't like it, but I did yeah, speaking of games liked let's talk about your game of the show Strike Back 3 there was a great video of this as well this game also only had one ball in it and so So Tony activated like stadium multiball. And it was so weird. The Harley, the Sega Harley was the same way. It would start the multiball. You'd only have the one ring. You'd only have the one ball. If you drank that ball, it knew you didn't have any more balls in play and would end your turn. But it kept the multiball going. It was weird. I can't believe it was programmed to allow it. But anyway, I had never played Striker Extreme. I had always heard that it was arguably, arguably the worst soccer-themed pinball game ever made. Generally, it's between that and Williams World Cup from the late 70s.
    107:45
    And that one was there, but I played it before. That one was there, but we didn't play it. This one, I definitely could see being the worst. Oh, it was terrible. It was completely and utterly horrible. And I blew it up. You did. Ah, I blew that game up.
    108:03
    That was, you know, when you sit down to a game, even if you've never played that game before, somehow just all the shots feel exactly dialed in like you had tons of time on it. That is exactly what I had going on with that game for some reason. Yeah, it's just like you had designed the game yourself. You were so dialed in on those shots.
    108:23
    It was, but yeah, no, it was fine. Not like fine, like it's great. or fine. It's like, yeah, no, I played it well. It was fine.
    108:37
    Yeah, that one, at the time it was listed for $1,800 and I told Tony if he wanted it, I'm sure he could get it for less and you and I actually ended up having a break and sitting down with some other people from St. Louis one of whom bought that game. Yes, he did. He bought that exact game. Yeah, and I think he said he ended up getting it for 1100, which for a DMD game, that's very low. And the game was, I mean, it just basically needed the balls. All the flippers were working. The soccer guy, Mech, was working. I think it gave one coil error at one point, so maybe something needed to be tweaked, but mostly it looked functional. We actually got to play the Monday night football as well, which is the same layout, but re-skinned the football, so it makes no sense, given what that layout it is, it was half broken. We're talking like a flipper didn't work, the football player guy didn't move, that one was atrocious to play. But Striker Extreme is like, okay, we got a really good example of this game.
    109:40
    Okay, so just letting you guys know, there are still DMDs for under $2,000. You just have to settle for fun.
    109:46
    Just give up on fun and you can have some. As long as you're not looking for something with that's super amazing. You're good. I played the Restored Bonanza. The guy got out the, Aaron, I believe is his name, he got out the pictures to show me what it originally looked like. That ended up winning one of the show awards, which made, I mean, it was really cool. I did terrible at it, but it looks great. So I got to experience that. So that was a standout one I wanted to mention. I didn't know if there were any other games that kind of caught your eye that you wanted to just make a couple comments on or not? Yeah, I haven't. I think we covered all the big things. Yeah, we should have. Because I only played a few games that we haven't talked about and little nothing that, oh, I will. Wiggler. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Wiggler. I had what could have possibly been my coolest shot in pinball ever on Wiggler. Oh, yeah. And Eric saw it. So it wasn't just me who saw it. It wasn't one of those where you do something awesome and you're like, did you see that? Did you see that? There's nobody there and it's just you. No, I actually, Eric saw it too. I had a multi-ball going on Wiggler and I flipped one of the balls up into play and it hit the other ball at just the perfect angle so they bounced off each other and both of them locked in the saucers at the exact same time.
    111:17
    Yeah, that was a really cool game. That one also was recognized during the end of show where they talk about the games that are there and which ones won or were runners-up for awards. And one of the Kansas City players and collectors, Mike O, recommended to us during a lunch break that we try out Wiggler because he knew that I like zipper-flipper games. And Wiggler's a Ted Zales zipper-flipper four-player. And so, actually, yeah, if I could find a great deal on it, I could see getting Wiggler. I don't like Wiggler as much as 4 Million BC. It doesn't have the close-field shot. But the layout's fun, and you can do, obviously, at least you can do really cool stuff. I have the lowest score. I can do it. I walked away, and I didn't kill you. So you probably just made up that thing with the balls just now. I have at least one person saw it. One person saw it, so I have proof. Let's see. Just some final stuff out of me, I guess.
    112:13
    So swag or purchasing. I'm not a big mod person, but when I go to shows, I try and find a few things. There's some stuff I consider that I wasn't sure on and didn't get, but I did go ahead and buy some flipper Titan bands for my Hoops pinball machine. I meant to do that when I ordered them, but the wrong size was listed in the manual. I actually made a kit over with Titan so people who want to buy Hoops rings, and I put the right ring size then. It was a red flag to me when I ordered them, but I went ahead and did it. I just went and got those while they were there. That was really cool because all the Gottlieb Premier, like System 3-sized pointy flippers, they kept all those rings, like, under the table in shame. They hide them. And they charge the same amount as the bigger ones, too. So I made a joke about that. And they're like, well, not very many people want these Gottlieb rubbers. And I'm like, yeah, I know. No one likes Gottlieb. But who needs it? So I got that. I got an LED light from Cointaker that I'd seen recommended to replace the incandescent bulb in the Total Nuclear Annihilation topper. So I did that. I also, every time I'm at TPF, I always go to Measle Mods. I usually buy something. It's always been for Star Trek, but I actually got a little decal set for my Total Nuclear Annihilation flippers. And then I picked up a copy of the Queen Up Carnival publication. Those are for sale now, and you can order them online so you don't have to obviously be at TPF because it's too late now. You didn't show up. You missed it all. But I haven't read that yet, but I'm looking forward to doing so after talking with Nick Baldridge about it on the last episode. So that's some of the stuff I got. Of course, I got a show shirt. I haven't washed it yet. Yeah, I got a show shirt. I got some lapel pins to add to my collection. I got the Coin-Up Carnival publication as well.
    113:56
    I also fanboyed out and went and got pictures and an autograph from John Rhys-Davies. Which photo did you get of him? I went with a Gimli. Jackpot one Jackpot two Oh that was At least for the people in attendance I need to just note back in the twippies That was the highlight He was one of the guest presenters Of course everyone was really polite Cheered him on gave him a standing ovation When he came out on stage which was the only standing ovation Of the night And he was very kind To all the attendees He said the hobby was very oddball, but he thought the people were pretty smart.
    114:41
    And he actually did his Gimli jackpot call-outs. He said, because people seemed to want to hear this, and they were awesome. His whole thing was very awesome. Yeah, it was good.
    114:52
    Well, that's really all I have for Texas Pinball Festival and for this episode. Yeah, I loved meeting all the people we got to meet this year. I'm still tired and well that's why we took Monday off and we're recording remotely because no one needed to go anywhere right but I was literally two blocks from your house this morning because my wife was off today also and she wanted to go to first watch this morning and get some breakfast and run a couple errands so I ended up up there anyway I was probably still asleep nah not really yeah i have no idea i don't know how long you've slept i don't sleep in i mean even today today was like the most i've slept in all weekend you would have thought sunday morning i would have slept past six but i didn't today i slept until like 6 15 yeah no i slept till about seven i actually i didn't get to bed till about one because by the time i dropped eric off and got home and unloaded the car the trash still needed to be taken out for and all that was for my Monday chores weren't done, so I needed to do them because I wasn't here to do them. So I did all that. Yeah, I know. I had the same. By the time we got home, I mean, we hit, I hit a, I was getting ready to say I hit a second wind in there on the way home last night at some point, but I hit like a ninth wind in there at some point last night. So by the time I got home, I actually felt pretty good, and I, you know, bummed around and did this and that, and I didn't actually end up going to bed until like 1230 or 1. Oh, yeah. I wasted time on Facebook looking at people's photos they were posting. I was completely in the picture. I didn't look at it. I, like, barely touched Facebook over the weekend. I didn't Instagram as much as I probably should have. I probably should have taken a lot more selfies with all of these people we actually talked to and did this and that. But we were talking. I know we're having this conversation, but, hey, let's get a picture real quick and all this stuff. And I don't think that way normally.
    116:56
    I may gather up a few of the photos. others cook and assemble them into a tiny little album. Yeah, that might not be a bad idea.
    117:04
    For those of you who didn't get a chance to speak to us, you can always reach out to us, eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com, or you can message us on facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. We're available on Instagram, Twitter, and the Twitch as eclectic underscore gamers. And we'll be back in two weeks with a regular episode. But until then, I'm Dennis. And I'm Tony. Have a great day. See ya.