SDTM Episode 70: This Month In Pinball/August 2018

Straight Down the Middle·video·1h 1m·analyzed·Aug 17, 2018

Analysis

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TL;DR

SDTM discusses manufacturer updates and pinball secondary market buying/selling etiquette.

Summary

Straight Down the Middle hosts Zach and Greg discuss August 2018 pinball news, including releases from Stern (Deadpool), Jersey Jack (Pirates of the Caribbean shipping), and other manufacturers. The episode heavily focuses on community dynamics around private sales, 'or best offer' pricing semantics, machine condition expectations, and restoration value—topics rarely discussed publicly in pinball media.

Key Claims

Deadpool by Stern is shipping/being boxed up by the time this episode airs (August 2018)
high confidence · Hosts discussing current manufacturing timelines for Stern release
Pirates of the Caribbean by Jersey Jack is shipping and will begin arriving to customers the week of the episode
high confidence · Greg states 'Pirates of the Caribbean is shipping... gonna start seeing them pop up' and mentions specific customers receiving units soon
Monsters is rumored to be coming from Stern
medium confidence · Zach mentions 'Monsters coming up. That is the rumor' with qualification about execution quality
The Beatles pinball is rumored for January 2019 release from Stern
medium confidence · Zach states 'rumored The Beatles and January 5th' with some uncertainty about timing
Alice Cooper pinball streaming event had significant technical problems including hard resets, flipper failures, internet issues, and had to be pulled from broadcast
high confidence · Detailed discussion of Spooky Pinball's streaming event where new code had 'hard resets,' flipper breakdowns, and internet problems causing hour-long delays
Zach invested $7,000 in an Alice Cooper pre-order but cancelled after the problematic stream demonstration
high confidence · Zach explicitly states 'I was in on Alice Alice Cooper number 35... I sold it' and discusses the frustration of the streaming experience
Chicago Gaming Company Monster Bash remake is being released
high confidence · Greg states 'Chicago Gaming Company. We got Monster Bash. That should be released. They did announce that it was Monster Bash'

Notable Quotes

“Pirates of the Caribbean is shipping. It's gonna be shipping this week. You're gonna start seeing them pop up.”
Greg@ 7:46 — Confirms JJP Pirates shipping timeline and addresses supply chain momentum
“I was in on Alice Alice Cooper number 35. Someone had dropped out. Greg sold—why man? I'm gonna kick myself.”
Zach@ 11:34 — Reveals Zach's cancellation of significant pre-order due to manufacturing/streaming concerns
“They just loaded up renew code on a brand new machine they built that Larry Day, and it had some issues. That had hard resets. It had flipper that broke down.”
Greg@ 12:45 — Describes specific technical failures observed during Spooky's live stream event
“I don't normally. Know this is one of my first times. Another feel. It felt really good because he was such an [asshole].”
Zach@ 20:47 — Shows emotional investment in secondary market interactions and uncharacteristic frustration
“'Or best offer' to me is just literally saying you're not firm within a $300 price range if I think it's where you should be.”
Zach@ 24:48 — Articulates the hosts' operating philosophy on auction/offer mechanics in secondary market
“I don't hear this anywhere else no I hear I hear about news I hear about Turner's hangar buy stuff this is the buying and selling nobody talks about this is a huge part of the hobby”
Greg@ 27:56 — Reflects on why secondary market dynamics are underreported in pinball media

Entities

Straight Down the MiddlemediaZach MinneypersonGreg BonepersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Companycompany American Pinballcompany

Signals

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community_signal: Secondary market pricing disputes on Pinside regarding 'or best offer' semantics, lowball offers, and restoration value; World Cup Soccer machine pricing controversy
high · Extensive discussion of Pinside thread debate on 'or best offer,' restoration labor/parts valuation, and specific example of Schmidty's World Cup Soccer $6,500 listing generating community friction
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community_signal: SDTM hosts discuss community feedback from Pinside forum polls (Team Greg vs Team Zach) and direct listener support
medium · Discussion of Pinside poll results and listener interactions at Pinburgh and other venues
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market_signal: Pre-order cancellation of Alice Cooper by investor ($7,000 deposit) due to manufacturing/streaming concerns
high · Zach: 'I was in on Alice Alice Cooper number 35. Someone had dropped out. Greg sold—why man? I'm gonna kick myself' and 'I was frustrated that I had $7,000 in and I couldn't watch a replay'
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announcement: Chicago Gaming Company Monster Bash remake officially announced and releasing
high · Greg: 'Chicago Gaming Company. We got Monster Bash. That should be released. They did announce that it was Monster Bash'
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announcement: Pirates of the Caribbean by JJP shipping week of episode air date
high · Greg: 'Pirates of the Caribbean is shipping. It's gonna be shipping this week. You're gonna start seeing them pop up.'
?

Topics

Manufacturer updates and game releases (August 2018)primarySecondary market buying/selling etiquette and pricing semanticsprimaryMachine condition expectations and restoration valueprimarySpooky Pinball Alice Cooper live stream technical failuressecondaryPre-order cancellations and customer confidencesecondary'Or best offer' pricing semantics in pinball communitysecondaryJersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean demand and availabilitymentionedCommunity engagement and interpersonal dynamics in pinball collectingsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.35)— Hosts are enthusiastic about manufacturer updates and game releases, but notably critical and frustrated about secondary market interactions, pre-order quality concerns (Alice Cooper), and community behavior around pricing. Zach expresses uncharacteristic frustration and regret. Discussion of community pricing disputes adds contentious tone. Overall positive about pinball hobby but negative about specific market dynamics and interpersonal friction.

Transcript

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Nicollet kingly chrome at powder-coated the possibilities are endless at pinball play team.com let's kick this [ __ ] [Music] you had a flame away the slingshot euro and a dog baby I don't know why I've got is a Dave Matthews I thought it's counting crows but it might be bass man I hate that song - okay it's a date I think it's Dave who is it hey what's going on guys oh it's Zack and Greg from straight in the middle of pitbull show oh come on I that Pete that spike and these poor people they complain about our audio enough put them levels up we've got a lot of things to cover yes and it's not so this is our this month and pinball segment where we discuss the happenings in pinball and all of the all the new things as well as some of the controversial topics that you're not gonna hear from maybe some other bimbo mainly controversial topics you want to get fired okay so that's what we're gonna do but first but first we've got to show a lot of love and appreciation for the SDTM family and friends right yes we've got a lot of people reaching out to us that we love talking to in particular we love when people are out in the public at pin burg yep somebody's wearing our t-shirt oh boy Daniel the beautiful French ESP team shirt that was really cool so he's right the entrance of pin burg Dean I'll see if I can mess up his last name Daniel ejections chin touch we got that save Dan's name before I sneeze that's always tough Daniel thank you so much for supporting t-shirt anti-boy Jason Knapp Navi love of not happy no nothing he's napping but yeah this calling and happy yeah this is new name is it yeah well to me it is Jana Jason goes on to our vote thing on pin sod on our threat I bet he if he voted for you I bet he reeked licks that off and clicks it on Greg we do have a nice so nappy was at sunshine laundromat and arcade yeah it was any of those arms up in the air with a stadium shirt on which I still want to go he said it I'm so Regan super there we've had a lot of discussion with some of our fans around the country and around the world so to reach out we love that all the time yeah so we had a fun little poll on our thread didn't we yeah did you see me I was surprised so you guys go over pen side thread straight in the middle we put a poll up that says simply team Greg I could pull up and change us in the mornings no you said something about my mom and some coal okay so it's a team Greg team Zak Oh or neither whipping a lot of bother you know honestly I got a surprise I thought you know what we could be fifty good believe doubtful I did well I'm leaving right now I think the tech made a terrible mistake and I'm putting not a lot of people are picking X or and one cannot pick between Abbott and Costello obviously a lot of people give us that designation show of that absolutely so let's get into Sonoma see you know it's the law the law of this law you're a fan you know your land I didn't get mad at you no more law because I know you're a fan he sent me a picture once the head is his bedroom suit well your sheets and stuff comforter the monogrammed pillows with our faces on is beautiful thanks long custom job I like that custom job okay you're talking about to keep doing this and people not not doing anything I'm just sitting over here waiting to get to the controversy it's very true all right so let's go through a rundown of the manufacturers and talk about their recent developments as the pinball news right serve him all Deadpool is coming out by the time this airs they've probably haven't boxed up and shipping out yeah yours are seeing those very closely so nothing with Stern we got monsters coming up that is the rumor super excitement if that happens I think I think if done properly that's gonna be really fantastic we have rumored Beatles and January 5th the wrong time off that's right if that's correct I'm more about to hear now more about the rumors and what's coming up to bring to these people the example of you should there's why the phone people are gonna click on people that they know your about the future and they know that I'm about living for the moment you live for the moment last night didn't you woke up a little rat this movie guy mom turn mellow I'm off look I don't know why I said woman I gotta get up Mick to your son's house sort of my son's house somebody texted me Oh interesting I get to go ahead for something mm-hmm you'll see that later on okay let's get into it so Deadpool yes that's releasing Jersey Jack pinball fires the Caribbean is shipping yes barley now a little birdie told me that you'll see when's this gonna air you're gonna see break guys I was gonna tell you this but I bring you all of these knowledgeable facts and yeah us being the good friends that we are talking for hours upon hours through the week we did teletoon then I would know some of this [ __ ] and I will tell you that a lot of times information is dropped on my ears at the same time it's drop that your that's how much information I get I bet it is I think you're just a stingy bastard with my info with your info I do protect all of my sources that's you yeah go ahead leak it to me yeah like some Caribbean is shipping it's gonna be shipping this week you're gonna start seeing them pop up I think the Buffalo boys are getting there some think Kevin said these his is on the line in Knox he paid for his so he's gonna get one of the first ones you never got a well for myself this season and I've kind of built them a game reserves I've always been against giving you know selling off my quantity for them quality yeah but i'm twin with the Deadpool Pro which would be nice that'd be your first you know buck because it's cheap and I'm still seriously kind of toying with that pirates man every time I see freaks of mine when I saw it sitting on the line I was still just kind of like oh you're so pretty and I like the way you shoot and I actually was not that big of a fan of Kiefer but I picked up the Simpsons and I've learned it it's not as below yeah not as difficult to understand is what I thought yeah so I made me appreciate the complexity and the depth of what Pirates can be yeah and so I want one really bad go not have the opportunity to fill my spotty and get one of these first ones I'd give it what are you gonna get rid of you know me I have a small collection turd you get rid of that's like half of my collection yeah but it's worth it for a little bit you know what are you gonna stick around every time I talk to Eric Manor he always makes me want you even more it's a biltman sales yeah he's still got all the right home ok let's move on to American pinball we got Oktoberfest is the rumored game what I mean we don't know much about that hopefully we get we're striving follows goes yes and working on whittling them back yeah a little wooden stick Chicago gaming companies got monster bash that should be released they did announce that it was monster bash surprises well you've got me excited about a chicago gaming stuff just because the little tweaks and the thing is I'm like yeah what the hell ever a plate looks like that yeah but there's small things that they do and kind of major things to really that it's got me more excited about Chicago game I think so a lot of people love him it monster bash driven out there's a lot of people ask I'm just glad schmidty's didn't in Italy always I think he is so I don't have to everyone I can skip maybe we got so many new pinball machine we got Alice Cooper coming just Alice Cooper is shipping now now they're trickling they really great he said what do you do we had recent streams by for the Alice Cooper pinball machine yes tell the people who did that who streamed it Bigfoots they're gonna go oh no the other one yeah yeah I saw it when it was going on let's give him a little time oh thank god the Cokie up oh you know Xcode what is what's the I don't know how to pronounce the AC go G a C go G is that right off the west coast yeah cuz my girl Emmitt Oceana she threw it up on Facebook I think it's a moto like something you develop on your neck you check so extreme that those rig I'm sorry yeah so did I don't play with Scarlett D'Python Anghelo an IE pinball car Italy yes the clean we don't think so somewhere overseas I don't think so you brought didn't accept my friend parental has the cleanest looking strings it's beautiful multiple so many cameras Sarah some breaking news Greg you know about this this this is a this was a kick in the crotch um I was in on Alice Cooper number 35 someone had dropped out Greg sold why man I'm gonna kick myself I sold it because I'm worried about I had a little to do with this decision oh wow so the stream like that flip but the stream didn't sit well with me I watched a little bit of it but they don't really have time to watch a lot of it right so I thought I'd catch it on the Honda main I was in the zone no sorry butts in my listings I'm sorry miss ravenous dogs we have bad like so hey well alright sorry I got attention from this so I thought I'd catch it on demand but they didn't air it on the Manns yeah I said well they said a couple things but then Charlie said he wanted Jack to pull it because it was having some problems yes they just loaded up renew code on a brand new machine they built that day and it had some issues that had hard resets it had flipper that broke down it had Jack didn't they had internet problems so they were an hour behind yeah it was a bit of a mess yeah bit of a mess the game looked like fun when they were blowing it up bone Cairns and Jack danced and duo's into it yeah that's why I mix it looks so much fun yeah right so I was fine with that I thought no you know it's just it is what it is I was frustrated that I had $7,000 in and I couldn't watch a replay of it yeah because I I think they could have got enough yeah to edit but that's just me so then I thought I'll pitch the stream curled angels doing a stream yeah a lot more bugs yes a lot more bugs in it and it's just Kohn probably I don't know great it just didn't feel 7,000 Sodom my enemy though so like I'm very timid on any purchase that I make it's a hard one for me I'm not gonna like guys I'm truly that's almost tough yeah it's almost up but I thought you know why not get while I still support spooky yeah and that went on for day cuz TNA yeah so instead of that I got a teenager review yeah no I'm not sure how long this last it's not a long-term plan but yeah one popped up it was close one of my buddies up north still sounds beautiful stills fantastic so you're gonna get a teenager you coming up I don't know great what do you think about what do you think about the streaming of Alice Cooper what do you think about the game or are you worried about it at all uh yeah I'm worried about like I said like me you discussed it over a period of days so you you you were I was really bad for more than what should I do you called you know you thought there's a couple of some what this game and you were you really got I don't know how kicking myself in the ass and I was like hey you know what man like you got a hold of teammate even get over now scooper at some point yeah but if you get back in line no yeah yeah not getting back a lot but there's something else embrace all that with me if something will come up but I'd be nervous too you you do a little better in the Penn Department than me like I said I I'm very I'm very timid when it comes that stuff so you my answer was a very straightforward wait okay just because that stuff terrifies me some of this at seven thousand dollars do I deserve to see some gameplay before yeah I mean I think so I think I don't want to yeah I mean especially with the non-refundable deposits me and like I would have to agree that you can trade it spell whatever the hell you got to do for it but but thousand bucks is a lot of them feel good and to not really know what's why I could never drop it on there just because I don't know what to expect out of the game really yeah you know wouldn't in any of the shows I couldn't I couldn't put any plays on it to really see anything like you said I've got to kill it for five minutes of its in my house or up didn't a chaotic the [ __ ] that it happens with children and family and everything else and you couldn't go back no yeah you can't why I said it was deleted but then we sell a little snippets and yeah the fun stuff it's it's all good though let's move to something exciting hurt all right so no Alice Cooper in the media future for me will still review again so don't threat both right now it's getting through the reactants okay which is great so there's been a little talk on pin side about you know about more best offer and what that means yes and firm firm crisis so what is firm price to me what does the best offer mean does it literally mean your best offer does that mean I'm a field some offers until I get the one that I like the best does that mean more than asking price is best off what does that mean ironically I was selling my demo man who makes that I wrote I had a go that's not I'm used to the hard irony of it so I'm selling my demo mean behind the iron is that shirt before care of that steamer sorry we'll wait haha a Roman ship you guys I got for an iron look at Winship just okay oh yeah a big big iron together we're blue-collar guys active white-collar no big iron Tucker you guys um so I'm soma demo man and I get this [ __ ] lowball offer and won't you tell what it was and let's just say it was off a lot by a lot and so I simply wrote this gentleman back and I said no they're gonna I wrote him back I didn't want arriving back because it was such a dish where you obligated that Deborah sent to another point there was there was some other discussion on that too this is by what constituted is a response okay and I honestly think that when you are so home often you lowball someone so bad just in writing I don't expect a response don't expect a response did you get one great yeah well I still respond yes that's the kind of guy okay but I don't think that you should expect it not a requirement not requirement because it is so far off now if it's within a couple hundred bucks we she ate the offer King exactly yes with a couple hundred bucks but when you just are freaking a third of the price I Lobel yeah I've never loved all because sometimes they stick but do you get pissed no okay nobody doesn't hurt so I expect them now I simply wrote this gentleman back and said no I didn't want to elaborate I don't think he deserved my time because of the law work this guy writes me back holier-than-thou and this guy goes that's cool I'll just buy one from somebody who wants to sell their so oh and most you guys know that I'm pretty passive in neutral and that's the way I am in life yeah I actually probably a little more easier going outside of the pinball world if it does then what I am in it's not involving insecticides or germs or leaving your home matter soft and very copacetic yeah very very much stuff so that [ __ ] really cut through me he sucks there he told me so and I was so mad so I wrote the guy back and I sort of thought maybe I'm overreacting mean I'm reading this one maybe the guy is just wishes why you called me it's just this wording and I said yeah let him have it yeah so I'm running back and I was like man I was like I just don't think that you know I think that it's kind of you don't need to be a dick just because I look lined you're all over the house and you don't know because I declined your oh then there's no there's no memes like more so did this guy response uh listen I sent back and forth I would assume that we're both adults here so there's no need for the foul language whoa and he goes I don't understand or best offer on your thing that's your given false advertisement when you say or best offer no I was I was stunned so I wrote the gentleman back in Hazzard I think that if we were adults you would have never made such a dumbass comment I said because that was very unadulterated or best offer your offer wasn't one of the best offers yours was very far off from one of the bet Stoppers so I don't understand when you're getting false advertising with a rice bag it's like I just assumed that we're both don't want to do this deal no really sir I don't want to deal with you at all why didn't you let it go so there was just no reason I wasn't rude to the gutter tiles you know it's sharp but it talks about that here in a bit sometimes you just want to go there yes and I don't normally know this is one of my first times another feel it felt really good because he was such an [ __ ] but then you know what I'm an aspect of it rips my ass even more and I don't want to bring it up because this the same let's just say there's a this this gentleman had a very large amount convulse that he has gone through so that's all gonna leave for that with that so which rubbed me even further away but like literally the nicotine nose prizes he knows prices he he well he knows what he wants to buy at he knows when he wants to but I think flippers should expect no responses I don't care I responded to him uh someone should not get mad no but was mine there was a he's saying you should accept your best offer that's what our best offered means yes I should I sure that it sounds like best off that was what was weird but here's the here's the roof was he acting like his price was the best offer when somebody says it were best offer do you think that that means you gauge the offers and you take the best offer or does that mean our best offer means that I'm not stuck on this price point I got some wiggle yeah but there is a drop down price that I will not sell and that's what app inside thread would start like no next day not by this God but maybe this was where the irony come in okay that it was from somebody else different kind of asked him what like what you just saying what's the point of it or best offer because if you take it literal that means don't pay what they're asking yeah it means some of the big maybe it doesn't need to but if you take it literally it would be like okay I got six offers I'd go with the highest all its the spread on the or best offer but well you can't do a spread because what's the time for there is no sniper so even if you were to take it literally what's the time right we're best offering a week or best offering three months because you can sit down for six months and say I'm still taking offers here's my our best offer my best dog here's what I'm gonna do Transparency totally transparent it's what this show is all about I list a pin hi okay guess what I do I'm not the guy that says you know gee golly whiz I'm just a good old pinball guy and I'm gonna sell it for what I got in it okay just not me great just not me I like money yeah and fair enough I will overpay for a pin if I really want yes I've seen you do that okay I think so a bit at times but I've seen you didn't you let me know every time yes I did so I will I would have put it a hundred dollars over what I want okay and I'm gonna put we're best off for fair because if there were three people that really been looking for that title they might pay it that premium yes right but if I don't get any hits after a week I drop it down to a hundred yes that's kind of where I think it's worth yes if they don't get another hit you're gonna rub down another okay until it sells okay that's generally how I do I'm not gonna keep anything so if you see a bit of mine for sale it's gonna sell it's not gonna stay there I'll drop that damn thing you know they do sell and they sell they sold them so my ranges or best offer feels like $300 well it does them that's what I just think that we're best all for the point of it because that's what the gentleman asked in this pen size rate was what's the point of it to me the point of it is it's just it's it's a form of terminology to say that you're not yeah I get that yeah I think I think that that's the easiest way nor given a lot of firm is the biggest turnoff to me I think firmness to unless it's a good price well of course if it's actually a reasonable price it's not you understand do you ever still make offers on firms actually I don't and I did in the beginning and then I heard a lot of people getting really pissy about it I kind of would show you what I think that middle she's worth out character further left who cares well but it's it's a double-edged sword because okay but there are people who get pissed and so I set up a sperm don't waste my pun I said it was firm I'm not letting go but there are a lot of people that say firm and then three days later ankle they like little wiggle they do but again back to the thing or best offer to me is just literally saying you're not firm within a $300 price range if I think it's where you should be now here's the other thing somebody have come to me and I'll say $2,800 or best offer yes right they'll come to me and they'll say how about $2,500 first day and nothing and I'll be open with them I'll say you know what 25 may buy it if it doesn't sell yeah two weeks I agree I agree yeah but they think you said if you come on it now we'll set on that thread and people a lot of people who are defending the war best offer thing is that I mean it means the best offer nobody wants to pay higher what if you listed appeared for 2500 bucks and somebody said I'll give you twenty six twenty seven people hate that in the pinball community and so best Oliver you're not supposed to do that well no but that is a Laurel stomper best offer yes you've got to give a price for it yes you will get butchered yes if you just put $1.00 best offer yeah well yeah they don't like that they don't like the bidding money the or best offer if someone drove this it's up in almost a penny more people don't like that as much as anything else but again to me actually love him don't you love the pinball buying and selling no I get so many new people you talk to new people by relationships that I have through text and stuff and pinball or because of that I had a guy come over and I don't want not this guy because we got a lot of friends in the same community but it was very odd to me the guy came over to to look at one of my games drove a car that's the number one thing when I see cars pull up I'm like yea wasted my time late like 25 minutes of my game I never really know okay Mike but he was kind of nice I don't really know I don't really had much time this game I really don't know if it's for me so literally just know what I would've done gage day no I would've done seem value I would have said how much do you want for that particular game yeah what I said you want yeah yeah I know just tell me how much did you want for that oh how much did I want yeah for that particular all right 29 you know I told him I said you know what you seem to like it a lot I'm gonna give it to you for $2,000 but you gotta take it right now that's what I would have said I would have said that okay it's got a good answer absolutely and if you tried to put that thing on this roof it's worth that 800 to 900 dollars to me to see the Jackass trying to you got one motor with me no it should know because it's worth the fight yeah I'm gonna see him he's gonna be like again sooner my sky that's nothing against it but like I don't mind if people come play I don't know I don't need it but it was but an awkward him because it felt like there was no intention even when he was like today well how much less can you take now this isn't it was just it wouldn't even a strong yeah yeah you know yeah I get it he's good or no no the part of the former guy was a dick this guy was just a looky-loo yes yeah he was very cool so which I mind he was a cool guy and like I said we've got same circus or lovers love strangers in itself so you know don't vessels bother ya that's why I don't like the buying and selling I don't like it I don't I hate it I couldn't do I could not change the game the thing I like about this discussion right here is I don't hear this anywhere else no I hear I hear about news I hear about Turner's hangar buy stuff this is the buying and selling nobody talks about this is a huge part of the hobby hobby is really so let's keep on sticking with it the huge part of the hobby and that is what games your body okay so I'm pins on our buddy Schmidty that's our bud right he really got some people stirred up because he listed a World Cup soccer for $6,500 and it wasn't made of gold he did not spend her know it wasn't made of gold so it brings up so we won't we won't get into that because that workup soccers phenomenal but is a 65 who knows who knows we're not giving that but what we are getting into is when you buy a game guys what are you buying a lot of people on that thread kept saying you're buying the title anything you put into it is your own damn fault yes and you should not be recouped for anything no labor no parts or if you do are reimbursed parts 50% off yes okay so that brought up a little bit the discussion if somebody puts so much into a game is it or they just out there because it's their own home or should you put in to take into consideration some of this stuff on the machine that might not be on a player's condition World Cup soccer how do you feel about this I I'm very tough we talk for days on the strong about yes we work III even did like late-night phone calls tonight I got another thought yeah and so my thing I think there's so many variables that go into it true anymore I think that you expect a game to be clean well I prefer a premium price decent yeah I mean obviously if it's like a thousand dollar freaking myself some dirty pins if I don't want miss them yeah but I'm the price but the price reflects that okay but I'm saying if you're paying market value I expect it to be clean okay and I know a lot of people won't expect this but I actually expect it to be elevated at this point okay that's just me because it's not a lot of money but it still continued 50 to 100 bucks and two hours as are you factory in LEDs that's what I'm saying there's your price though no I think that it's worth setting up at the market now because people with incandescent are gonna want to ask you the same price as LEDs well now I'm 50 100 bucks more out and I've got a pic - a hundred bucks or more of that if you do no backup in on what you give them so I look at almost anything with LEDs now - you know to sort of speed market standard because invoke a few pins being beer and do you see when I see incandescent I see I wonder what those intimated like exactly uh how long do you take me to do that I how many bulbs are gonna do all that I agree it's more of like just a nice so I think that but I have led jobs are bad - that's very true cuz I don't have to every swell don't want that but it should have rubbers that worked it let's me brandy but they got to be like good rum they can't be busted can't be busted you know you driver on I can't do anything like that and anything else I think it comes to a game by game basis but this title matter I don't think title matters no well it does to an extent I paid a lot of money for a Godzilla but but a lot of money and that's because of the condition of yes but again it was a rare Hey it's a rear game I still spend a lot more than they sell for yesh and I sold it for a lot more than helpful but it wasn't very good condition a lot of mark in that good of condition okay but that is different that is a bit that is slightly different because those games do not exist it's more of a rare now if you take that's what you're paying for yes in a sense because it's like when we discussed earlier so you saying you've got a game that's nice but you had to read decal that that pen but okay let's say 70% of them are decent cabinets pretty good not not collector you little Nick's right there why am I paying extra for the radicchio you know extra for repeat cup cabinet when you can still find a lot of them in very good shape now why the hell am I gonna go pay because decals cost $300 they're perfect and it takes a lot to install them that's what that's what I'm seeing am I gonna go pay the 500 to a thousand dollars extra for this pin when I can just go pick one up for a thousand $1,500 or for a 500 to a thousand dollars less for a really nice cabinet on that same pin that's original do you understand and there's one man coming from and I think 90% to 95% of the rest of the Hobby is with you okay they just pick up the the above average players condition World Cup song okay however there are some people I'm in the minority of this if I want a nice game I will pay happily pay for that later okay if it is done correctly yes I will happily pay for the decals yes because I don't want to do it I don't want to go great don't want to do it but see Jason's was above and beyond yeah anything because he completely that cabinet is like a brain mechanic inside and out when he does it so then it's a restored cabin yes that is Zimmer so I do I pay for that yes that's what people go to have our hangout here here's a here's a uh here's a scenario you give me a shadow for $3,000 okay versus a shadow with a restored cabinet for 4000 that's $1,000 I'm only counting three dollars of it as the accent decals I'm counting $700 for labor guess what i buyed the four thousand bellick show absolutely but what if I'm spinning that the hell what if a lot of the shadows you come across and they are they're fine okay then why would you pay that extra for a camp because it is a pinball machine that I love and I want the nicest example of it and I will pay for that why don't you say for that all day long but I think all around like that's because there's some times in it now and this is what people rip on yours truly for a lot world underclass aesthetic [ __ ] that doesn't matter to pinball matters to me when I walk into my game room Greg there's a feeling that I have about this is a collector's opinion so when I see a cabinet that's fully restored that is perfect it feels better to me but I want to fully restored game okay like a terminator went for five thousand sold this chrome double what is it I think two two sides but I I would have paid that for it see I think that's a posture because it was completely redone it's like you said though if it's if you like that title it's paying for a a complete Lee redone game personal preference yes and I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all I'm not knocking that one that but it's recouping your money how do we know that that guy recouped all his money we don't because sometimes it's hard to recoup that money yes we had discussed this - there's a difference between where you get work done say you've got a terminator sitting here $5,000 with Chrome then you got a terminator sitting next to it for 5,600 that's chrome identical and they both have that amount of money into those pins well this guy just simply paid more for the same chrome job so why does he constitute getting $600 more out of his Terminator then this guy that doesn't that's what I'm seeing so it can't always be even got into a pinball sh absolutely it's still perhaps a little a bad I'm smart enough I can take the specs of that specific custom machine and I can derive I think sauce that I think is appropriate and I think that's the key and I think you're very much so if people send me pictures of a restored cab that looks like junk instead of that thousand that I value a fully restored cab I only value at three or it's a crappy job I think that's a watch I will agree I've have to read it the damn thing anyway I don't like I will agree color damn dude some people I swear to you some of these people were saying that things like color DMD don't add to the families but they can ask - yes the best yes of color DMV is one of the things that I think I'm a $50 shift product how does it not I think something like ten statement I think something that we aspire to I think so does no hooniverse old like the color Dean beep in Stadium something like that yes may not reflect 100% value maybe not but there is a large percentage it's more like fierce in or more way more than 50% I agree that's why I said on that thread I said look if you want to sell me all your Chrome you're calling the Indies in your PIN stadium place 50 percent yeah I've got cash brother come to me oh yeah and that's why a hard time like my demo man said it higher than normal price break demo fully curl but I had almost a 300 other set of lights on there from Penn State is within business yeah and I had full prom scene you know beautiful people not checked out right crow yeah price and a lot of the demo man and I understand if it doesn't matter to you that the handles are worn or anything else but a lot of them sitting at 2,500 bucks worn handles and stuff still I've seen some of them sell at that someone still incandescent in every day yeah into that and that is not fun to Italy yeah and I wasn't going to budge because it was a nicer than normal like around my freezing search work busted like most of them work I could raping from often selling yeah like I mean look pimpin bases if a games got $1,300 worth of chrome that's a lot guys that's a lot it is it's a lot of Chrome to me it's almost one for one it's still worth it to me because I can put it on another machine I can sell I know plenty of guys out there because the the chrome doesn't go bad it doesn't matter between title because if you went up to leave o3 that's all you other stuff but you bought a lethal weapon three with chrome somebody who pays $15 on chrome you're gonna pay $3,500 for a lethal weapon if I know that I can resell that chrome or put it on another machine but I don't think most want to go through the hassle I think that's where the difference comes in nobody wants to pull that chrome off with it it's a lot like it's the rest of the trim yeah but stuff that room okay there it is if its title I like yeah I think it's opening by I think that World Cup soccer if you found somebody like you said that one of that back it wasn't it was it opened up with a very beautiful discussion so this also talks about you see a lot of restores they're dropping out they're done yeah I don't think the price what's her name at HSA Brian after up a now a hip has talked about dropping it there's a lot of guys that are like look you have to put a lot of money into these machines to get them restored and Naughty Dog's to pay them yeah oh yeah or why is it that only only heps labor costs are worth it I think because of proven I think people feel more comfortable with it you've got there's something to be said about that yeah but the differentiation between given $10,000 restored game and saying anybody else that does cabinet details get 0 for labor no it is a spectrum I do this is very suspect to me you can't say that you can't say they do you fully support hep but then somebody else who puts a lot of time and money to pin doesn't deserve deeply and I'm not looking at I'm not looking for my buttocks I told me I was like I don't like World Cup soccer 6500 $67 enough not I wouldn't buy it no no way but if that was one of somebody's favorite games yeah and I wanted a very beautiful example all chromed up that's brass and chromed and yeah yeah that's my but that didn't mean I liked it do you pay for when somebody does a full top side tear down all new parts tumbled and everything actually I think to an extent I think you do because I want that community rebuild to a new game I think so too I I will agree with that and some will disagree that people say you know world cometh the governor is I made a $2,700 game for thousands of the Mac's they can never but again some jackass who just half-asses it I do not think you can put the same league as somebody who who does it right let's do it so so and I think that same person is gonna listen to the discussion like this go wall-eyed get my money back they not did it I just think it's common sense I do too common sense that people don't like using it they see a high price tag for a game double the price say for a game and they say absolutely not it's still up Hills by case basis yeah anything you still have people on there arguing you know what I can get for $6,500 you know I can get you know I'm coming close to the sternum cream I'm like well if you're saying that you're saying that the game that of what you get a newer game for that well then why would anybody ever pay you the prices they do for monster bash medieval madness that's the same thing this is alerting people some people like Belly Williams a lot better in Stearns yeah it's no matter what no yes self yeah it's a play day can't they that argument in there either yeah that's good all right you want to keep on the island I keep there's a queue want to rush your train it's not just you sourced I would say that that something stupid recently on Facebook Edie you told me I did I mean I don't think I did you hate it I don't tend to do things to do bad life but basically it's a monster no stuff so but it brought out of it King good discussion very I made a comment recently what we work really hard on these shows it might not look like any times but I do put a lot of hours in right you do we do I know you do but a lot of hours in and when somebody comes out and says hey there's nobody out there doing this and that's the thing that you're doing we derive the rubbers are salty so oh yeah they can't apologize for what I said but I can apologize anybody that was offended by that or thought I wasn't mad I was just jabbing somebody that was I felt he was you know missing out on some of the hard work we were doing that's all with that being said it brought up good discussion in our pin side thread on straight down the middle about whether you and I can be totally unbiased when we review again especially when we go to manufacturers started off as being people being [ __ ] like they were very aggressive and very curved inward no started off some things were very much just like a couple you're talking on the facebook I'm wearing thread yeah no I know but some people some people were very it was a berry as I love these done he was the other cause a confrontational thing at first but then it turned into a morph into a very fantastic discussion yes that needed to be had because they want pinball reviews everybody wants a pinball reviews and a lot of the discussion if none if some of you guys haven't read it we are as biased as we can be there's lots of unbiased let's start out with that we take money from these no thing well you you can't and just say that we're 100% unbiased is false well it can't hold up can you you cannot be and that's why it's nobody to buy your integrity no they can't buy my integrity ten thousand dollars no they can't know ten thousand dollars up eating freaking him burger helper don't matter that much to me why I love I'm so happy and laugh right now got a nice no I got a beautiful wife like I love I got some pinball machines like like like life is I couldn't do it either more than what I know I couldn't my word is everything is nice to people man real quick last night went out to dinner look down 100 dollar bill in the parking lot under dollar bill I picked it up I kept it I had a hard time with that yeah what do you do with it yeah can't turn it in they're gonna comp it you can't leave it there because someone else is getting up late that's who I am I have a hard time yes if I say some I fricking mean it yeah I'm not I'm not a religious guy but I have a strong set of morals yeah that govern a lot of my life and it's nothing that I try to do or try to be it's it's simply it's just what is it's what I feel it just something feels wrong I don't know isn't been what happened to most of my questions your integrity I can see being it's hard for me offended it's hard for me but but that's where we get into this about us being unbiased on these reviews can we do unbiased reviews not 100% we have relationships some closely yes close with the people that make these machines yes can we objectively review which is a different question objectivity is different question and bias what people were falling into the trap of is they were mixing up subjectivity and bias yes there's totally different things yes subjectivity we do fall into yes we have preferences yes what we like when you interview a game it is subjective to some extent yes we aim for objectivity yes but there is a mixture as we've said before subjectivity and objectivity that's what brings you a personalised review very take it or leave it very much so bias is different bias is giving somebody additional credit or negative negative perception based based on something outside of that product yes that is something I don't think we do know we don't but there's always gonna be in anything that you are to rate anything that you are to do you're gonna have the subjectivity but all there's always going to be outside influences no matter how subtle that effect that's the other opinion in your thought do you think subconsciously there can be things that are exact there are biases because we're friends with an artist because we're friends with a coder because we're friends with the CEO of manufacturer do you think subconsciously we we tend to skew the objectivity because of our relationship with them that's the real that's the question that came out yes I know I think that we may be or not is I think that it goes distressed that I goes from like this you your game sucked to think we have that one yet I really just didn't care for it so you think that there it is you think you soften it if you have a relation of it I think no I'm not just really I think you do that with anybody to conserve feelings or anything else I think the reason we would do that is out of respect for their hard work yes there's our appreciation if even if we don't like something look here your deal I don't like Rob Zombie game I don't think it shoots well I don't think it's prettiest game there's a lot of things I really really strongly dislike about yes that takes nothing away from the amount of work I made it intellect that went into that but it's a perfect because we don't let them where we might not say you your work sucks we might say I didn't really care for that here's why but we're always going to tell you that we did not like this aspect and this is why that we did not like that aspect I said I'd take a cheese crater to the playfield iron me yeah you weren't you don't think that's for effect that's for a yeah guys that's proud yeah I'd like to portray myself that there's an [ __ ] no I don't know round and round that's my game that's a t-shirt but you know so I think it'll uh what we're never going to tell you what we feel on it I'm not gonna go to you and I'm not gonna say that play film was fantastic okay and then go as a [ __ ] oh my god lovely we're gonna give you a lot of our stuff can be kind of controversial because we just don't tell you the good things about the game we also tell you what we dislike which i think is a huge part of it because it might be something you were looking at buying that game and man those guys some Street down the middle and many beautiful said Ghostbusters was freaking fantastic those questions we enable hated but we also said that it's brutal the gems like that you get a nuts unfair you have to speed it it's unfair and that's what we're gonna tell you about that game where some other people might say that's a good game man really like it it's a great time it's really fun we're gonna give you what we dislike about it too so that we can give you the most well-rounded review that we can yet I think when it comes to subconscious it's kind of like Forte the subconscious if you talk about the subconscious biases and and unconscious attempts to be biased without knowing it I think it also goes into your trust level with us as people very much and our insight know our self-awareness yes of our own possible biases if you can yeah no we're gonna psyche luck if you can if you can identify your own potential biases yeah stop the brain from from doing that which we didn't be talking about that's the thing is that's part of this show it's exactly said before you don't understand it seems like that we just said up here and we goof off we make mom jokes and we say dumb and mature she but there is so much pre-production through the week of discussions on how that we attack a certain situation and what is appropriate and here's that reduce everything to wrap it up to wrap it up we strive to bring you pinball reviews that's what we hang our hat on in a lot of ways yes right we really want to provide that whether we hit the nail on the head or not we want to provide you in-depth reviews on pinball machines so you can review them later when you're thinking about buy them that's our thing that's what we want to provide for this pinball media game community so when we go into manufacturers we tell them right we say if you're gracious enough to let us do an interview a deluxe interview yes keep this in mind yes we want to we want to promote we want to promote visually and information-wise the product that you have to offer what we're offering to you is a is a time work to show the world your product just having said that we tell it we told both of them so far that we've worked with yes don't expect a biased review yes because we're coming up here doesn't mean we're gonna give you rave reduce we're what they're separate you want to showcase the product because you're selling them yes but we're going to rape this product whether we like it or not and you might not like that in both manufacturers respect yes that's why they will never something part of it America I believe in their product and if you're not ok with this George again get rid of it we went to American we were in discussions with them about coming up there they wanted us to do a full on rupees a day is strong at that time they're marketers they're marketer wanted us to do a sit-down very good very good there marketer wanted us to do a review with Balcer with the whole design team everyone sitting there behind us with their houdini machine wanted us to give that review right there right there with the minds and we were we were scared of that no but we declined to do so on the fact of their feelings because we did not know 100% how we were going to rate the machine and we did not want somebody sitting behind us with the hours of work that they did right there crushing the months of work because we respect them too much that they did we do and and we're not gonna bring you a premature review yeah at that time we had not had enough job on that yeah we had to bring him back yeah we had to put 50 games on it yes we had to really know that game well yeah and when we're prepared and we explained that to them for that reason same thing like when we went up to like you said we went up to JJ peak we were up front and said we don't you know we've put some time on this game but we need more time and we don't know how we're gonna a lot of time up there we put time and yeah yeah we don't know how it's gonna rate I think 50 games is what were you aim for yes no hard feelings and somebody sitting at you're telling this was one of the comments was you're not telling me that so today yeah but you're not telling me which who today was the fantastic discussion you were up there people talk offense and I was like chill I know he's great we love to do that but but a comment was made if you're not telling me that these guys are gonna go up there to meet these people that's their friends and give them a bad rating and destroy their friendship honestly it's a chance we take and like I said in thread we're friends with them because we respect the amount of hard work they do whether we like it or not they're friends with us because they know that we're going to be honest and we're not going to sugarcoat and we've already had doors close to us we we we we know it hasn't been straightforward as it unspoken yes but we know some of the things that we have said some of the things that we've rated for certain people and those doors are closed to us know well they can be open that's what doors before they can't be did we know that there's a level animal versus a mental wall I know that no but there's a level of animosity when we're trying to discuss certain things with some people so we know that us being honest is closed some doors oh that's we're not gonna set our show yeah I've come close with some of these people some of these people are my friends and if we don't talk for a while I made this comment on our host I say a lot of [ __ ] to Zach I don't hold back was act like that's what we're like brothers do like I I tell him he's stupid on something and he might get mad we might not talk for a day or so but we're right back at it because we're friends are swimming therefore yeah we respect each other and Zach will come back and say you know what you were right if I ever said that oh yeah oh yeah hey Lauren I'll be like you know what Zach I was wrong I'm sorry for busting your balls on that or we're disagreeing we move on to don't exactly because that's what people do if your friends otherwise you're an acquaintance yeah we do have a lot of friends in the industry we do and there's probably gonna be a Christopher Franchi are working that's gonna happen at some point in the next 20 years that he's doing this that's right Chris well that's horribly broke I'd read Chris just not the good one who this lady's phenomenal yeah if you turn down a turd piece of [ __ ] game Chris I just dread the day that I have to say that to you Chris but so how many drives down I mean just to see what he's got coming up next I do too all right so is that is that good yeah I think so Oh Josh looks good to get that off forgive me a cigarette now I don't even smoke okay before we end before we end we need to discuss a big event that's coming up for us aren't we did weren't able to make the Pember our next show is going to be a Chicago Expo yes we've been asked to come to Chicago Expo yes and we've been asked to do a similar yes we are partnering up aren't we yes we are partnering up with this weekend pinball to do a similar yes now this is going to cover the show straight down the middle of the ocean yes it's going to cover this week and pinball website yes it might touch on the podcast a little bit it's also gonna cover the twits way these is coming you guys it's near it is coming and what are you gonna post so many games come oh boy this is gonna be a fun one so we want you guys we it would mean the freakin world I know a lot of people are watching this if you're going to Shiro Expo throw us a bone I'll throw you one and at least just come support the seminar and show we want to do something interactive yeah don't talk about much but I don't want to we want to do some interaction with the audience different than a lot of similar is just there because it's very much us we engage we're very engaging on Facebook and on fansite so we got to engage you during and we need people there coming day Jin yes so and we're gonna talk about twigs we're gonna kind of open up what I did you guys have about the Twitty what you would like to see in the twigs and different stuff like this right yeah so we can make this a cool Ward show each and every year agreed and you can hear about Jeff talking about this weekend which I'm freaking stoked about I'm so sorry so come to that that'll be a lot of fun and hang out with us at Chicago Expo that's kind of our big show yeah for the year and then Indiana had their very first pinball machine up in a moment if the flood comes right flies on the green ones uh Indiana had their very first pinball much pinball Expo pinball show was that their first time yep this this past weekend the Fort Wayne couldn't make it couldn't make it Santa our book that was shows that we already had planned and already it's expensive the magnets - yeah Wayne's my toes - us know so we please very much hated that we didn't want to come to the show but yeah I need some help Jimmy Hayes we had behind that offer but you know check out our Facebook page they're gonna publicize if there's hopefully getting some pictures of some video for us and everything so we'll post some of that to our Facebook page you can check out the pinball show on there man things gonna be great yeah hopefully we get some releases hopefully we'll have something cool there to play yeah I don't know who's releasing what an expo yet the words not out it's too far away to note I know but what made it last year was Pirates beat or at least like I hope something is dropped please somebody drop something but you do we have it like there's some cure manufacturers mum strudel we got and Willy Walker the river title monsters want that they around there is mayor to purpose than that one so say the three that come on guys one of you drop's up the force at Expo yeah so those are the things we're looking for what do these people need to do to continue supporting straight down the middle is like I said look at us on Facebook like just look at like us like us on here we got a lot of cool stuff as always if you're listening as a podcast subscribe subscribe to us on pockets as you talk to us on you which we're at the 2000 mark Lobos Marty oh oh nice Thank You Superboy hopefully we can surpass that hopefully far surpass them yeah um Chuck work LA yeah always doing fantastic John yeah Chuck you love it and then by t-shirt it's cool we got a new t-shirts that we're gonna be developing yes hopefully we're on bikes though we're looking to happen by Expo I love those the new line of shirt so you guys are gonna have like a plethora to pick from like collect them all it's good and all of our sponsors I think will be at Expo as well I think so they'll come out support those we've got a normally there Joe ping graphics yeah flipping out pin won't - gallery' in a pinball machine young him you've got more crow specialties I don't know they're gonna be there oh sorry sorry to keep this episode going so speaking of Marcos I did my first flipper rebuild not too long ago it's been a it's been a little while but I had to do another one I've done two now I got you and I have to say I was intimidated I was scared I know it's simple to everybody who's done it but I did my first flipper rebuild Marko saving my flipper kit which was fantastic because you get the double check on their website like being new and I don't know and I try to cross-reference everything and do everything but you know to list the game or so it's doing a fantastic game plus I know like I knew that it was compatible with my Simpsons idiot-proof it is kind of idiot proof and also so I'm so excited about myself cuz I got this game and I love somebody I had two pops that didn't work in different stuff so oh I think it's time yeah praise yeah Frankenstein and so I had two transistors that were bad on it when I bought it so but on Marcos website which was absolutely fantastic - which we had learned this the hard way you had a game that we didn't know about here to make some phone calls it's make sure that you change the diodes now on your coils when at the same exact time you do the transistors because don't burn each other after and then your we've stuff it in your design what the hell is going on I don't know why that what the problems in an axle over the Rings West starboard yeah when I was looking at this up for those transistors when I was bottom it said that I'm marking this was that very yeah so I just been blown away by their service and I'm getting more technical and I'm proud of myself doing simple things for you guys but also look like we're having a lot of coal and I don't know how you feel about this I'm throwing this on you I don't want to do a newbie video we got a lot because a lot of our viewers are our new hobby is yeah you're under news in fresh people or people I've been there for a while just did my first flippin rebuild I'm scared to death of it we're gonna like great ticket yeah I'll do it so I want really same box another machine I thought I did a good job what's wrong with it check out that video the unboxing of Iron Maiden and you'll find out all the things wrong with that also check out pin stadium lights to light up your playfields and make them not dark in the center and then pin ball plating calm yeah simple plating throw your own breast candy chrome I got those teeny cross and Chris is normally up there with pinball lady yeah I'll show an Eskimo no hit me retouching will let you guys know yeah but oh do you want delicious beautiful pinball machines the cherry on the cake is that Erica Tyrael okay turn your sunday candle and get it World Cup soccer if they're less your buds all that they would know how much I so for now I don't know how much of it was haha so pretty so check out all the sponsors as well we love you I guess we'll see you next week next week or so we get a review coming sometime stay tuned for a review it's what we do [Music] mr. foam and me mr. bone in there I wanna be someone top please tell me tell me yeah yeah mr. Fitz Oh name me