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Episode 180 - Rocket Man

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·55m 29s·held·Nov 14, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.026

TL;DR

CGC Cactus Canyon LE delayed to 2023; Procko asks about theme approach; Richie rumored on JJP Elton John game.

Summary

Dennis and Tony discuss pinball news and community topics on Eclectic Gamers Podcast Episode 180. Main news: Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon Remake LE versions delayed to 2023 due to topper manufacturing issues (possibly metric/imperial conversion error). Hosts field a Patreon question about single-game vs. collection themes in pinball (Harry Potter, Star Wars, video game IPs). Rumor Corner features unverified report that Steve Richie at Jersey Jack Pinball is developing an Elton John music-themed pinball machine.

Key Claims

  • Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon Remake LE versions delayed until sometime in 2023 due to topper manufacturing issues

    medium confidence · Dennis cites NAP Arcade article; hosts speculate topper may be too large (metric/imperial conversion error)

  • Standard editions of Cactus Canyon have been shipping for a while, but LE versions remain delayed

    high confidence · Direct statement from hosts based on NAP Arcade report

  • CGC is already notorious as probably the slowest of the major manufacturers at building and shipping

    medium confidence · Dennis's opinion based on historical track record

  • Steve Richie at Jersey Jack Pinball is developing an Elton John music-themed pinball machine

    low confidence · Unverified rumor from anonymous source; Dennis explicitly marks as 'full-on what's-us category' (completely unverified)

  • Wizard of Oz was JJP's cheapest production game with most content and most successful sales

    medium confidence · Tony's observation comparing JJP's product line economics

Notable Quotes

  • “The toppers are too large for the machine. There's too big. Somebody messed up the conversion from Imperial to Metric when they sent it over to get them built.”

    Tony @ N/A — Speculative explanation for Cactus Canyon LE topper delay; comic tone but identifies likely root cause

  • “you're not going to get all of the games or movies or episodes of the show or whatever... you're not getting seven Harry Potters. So you can decide, should we just focus on one, or should we focus on the whole series”

    Tony @ N/A — Core argument for series-wide vs. single-game theme approach in pinball

  • “Steve Richie's next JJP game is actually a music pin, and it's Elton John. Oh! Rocket Man.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Introduces unverified rumor; Tony's response references song title 'Rocket Man'

  • “Rumor Corner is about rumor-tainment. It's not about truth. These are rumors. They are very sus. We're not claiming it's not truth.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Establishes epistemic stance on rumor reliability

  • “For most games, especially story-driven games, I would just focus on one rather than trying to blend them. I just think it's cleaner.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Design philosophy on video game IP adaptation to pinball

  • “They just like, duh, you guys got to wait another six months. And I don't know if they formally announced this either.”

    Tony @ N/A — Criticism of CGC's communication on Cactus Canyon delay

Entities

Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)companyDennispersonTonypersonNAP ArcadeorganizationJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companySteve RichiepersonProckopersonCactus Canyon RemakegameWizard of OzgameStar Warsgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: CGC reputation for slow manufacturing and shipping compared to other major manufacturers

    medium · Dennis characterizes CGC as 'notorious as probably the slowest of the major manufacturers'; historical pattern mentioned but not detailed

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Debate over single-game vs. collection-based themes for IP adaptations to pinball

    high · Sustained discussion between hosts and Patreon question analysis; hosts generally favor single-game focus for story-driven content

  • ?

    product_strategy: Cactus Canyon Remake LE versions delayed to 2023; initially expected much sooner after standard edition releases began

    high · NAP Arcade report cited by Dennis; hosts confirm topper manufacturing issue as cause

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Steve Richie at JJP working on Elton John music-themed pinball machine

    low · Dennis explicitly marks as unverified speculation from rumor sources; notes this is first time hearing this specific rumor

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.166

0:00
Welcome to the Collecting Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, November 13th. This is episode 100 and 80. My name, as always, is Tony. and my name is Dennis and let me start by thanking our Patreons we have new Patreons and so let's go ahead we like to put it at the at the top we have two new at the intermediate support tier that would be John and Scott so thank you John and Scott for joining the Eclectic Gamers podcast Patreon as a reminder to individuals if you're not yet supporting this podcast via Patreon you can by going to patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers and we have tiers as low as one dollar a month in which you get to see experience see witness the fruitfulness of the baby's first series which we just dropped a new one earlier this month baby's first baby's first reveal i wonder who might have had their baby's first reveal you'll have to join the patreon to find out so what's been going on tony um nothing important it's been work i've just been i have been absolutely buried in stuff between uh i know i've mentioned it but as i'm taking college i'm taking some more college classes i'm gonna i i've just been busy it's been i haven't done much extra of anything yeah we went out and had lunch and played pinball on friday for veterans day because you were like i just need a break yeah i 100 was like you didn't say that until i get well you're like hey i'm gonna go out and for lunch i was like yeah i can meet You have the day off and I get there, you're like, I just needed a day of not that. Yeah, I just needed something. I needed a break. So I've been considering.
2:07
I've got a bunch of time off right at the end of the year that I have to burn. So I took off between Christmas and New Year's. And I'm still in the debate thing, but one of the nearby state parks has heated cabins that you can take a pet to. So I've been half tempted to just get it for like a week and just take my dog and go and just primitive-ish set. No phones, no electronics, no nothing. Just chill. Been thinking about it. Imagine how your dog would do at Denali National Park, Alaska in the winter. Just saying. Yeah. Yeah, that's a little much for me. Okay, well, it's been a while, and you've never been in the winter. I've never been in the winter. I would like to go in the winter, but my current goal, my current bucket list item is I still intend to drive to Alaska at some point. That is on my short list of things I want to do. And you've had that on your list for years and years. I've had that on my list since we went to Alaska. which was we went in was it 97 or 99 99 it was 99 yeah i'd also gone in 97 i yeah for those that don't know i have i have family that live in alaska so it wasn't all that unusual to occasionally go though i think i've only been maybe four times so yeah no i i that that's on my that's on my short list but that's that's going to be a a after you know the kids are out of school and stuff type item. Yes. Well, that makes sense.
Elton John
product
4:00
But, no, I've not really been doing too horribly much. Had a lot of fun playing some pinball on Friday, though. Yes, I went and just this morning uploaded my scores to the Pindigo that I took the photos of, because I set a new high score for me for Harlem Globetrotters, and I think that was a Deadpool premium. Yeah. You had a real good score on Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool was pretty good. For me, it was, at least. Yeah. Both of them were, I wasn't sure if they were my highest, but when I looked in the app, they were. So I had a really, really good stranger things game. You did. You typically do though. It seemed at least compared to me, I can't get anything going on, on stranger things. I really like, and they've got the, they've got the premium with the black light and everything. So it looks good. And I know the creator of the, of the rule set for rush. I played rush again several times and I did get another, achievement. I didn't have any great games. I might have had one of my, I should have taken the photo of it because I may have had one of my best games on it. It still wasn't good at all. It was still sub 50 million.
5:06
He put out a tutorial, but I remember thinking that day, once you said you were going to go, I was like, I bet they still have Rush. Maybe I should watch the tutorial. Then I looked and the tutorial was 20 minutes. I was like, I don't want to spend 20 minutes watching. Then I think there's now a second tutorial. So maybe the game is hard to learn. I'm not sure. Maybe there's an issue.
5:29
Issues relative. I'm sure for homeowners, being able to dive that deep is great. But I don't know. If it's going to take like over a half hour to learn the rules, you know, Harlem took me like 30 seconds to learn the rules. See what I'm saying? So anyway. Of course, some of that's just watching it happen on the screen, I'm sure. He's a very good player. okay uh well i haven't really been doing much other than we went in and did the pinball thing i did unfortunately and we just uh talked about this before i started i found out last night that my paternal grandfather passed away last night and i'm going to tell a little bit of a story here so obviously um i'm going to be a little more somber today than i normally would so just sort of a declaration on that is the reason why but uh it's pinball related and i don't know if i've And people sometimes say, what's your pinball origin story? And I don't know if I've ever shared mine, but it relates to my grandpa. So I'm going to go ahead and share it here because I thought, why not? Good time, kind of good memory thing. So I think for a lot of people that get in the hobby of pinball, they remember playing pinball in an arcade. I don't. I'm sure I did. I'm sure I experienced pinball at Showbiz Pizza. For those that don't know, Showbiz was kind of like what Chuck E. Cheese is. I didn't get to arcades very much because I lived in a rural area. So that was only like special events or you'd see like games, street level games like at a Walmart or a gas station or something. But usually those were arcade games and that's what always drew me. Like I played Dragon's Lair and Asteroids and Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers and Sinistar. If I played pinball, I probably drained really quick and was like, why am I spending 50 cents to get my butt kicked? I'd rather spend 25 cents and get my butt kicked sort of thing because you last longer when you're not good. So anyway, but my grandpa back then, he still lived at what we called the farmhouse because he was still an active farmer. So he and my grandma lived in Arkansas. He was a chicken farmer primarily for Tyson, and she worked at the slaughterhouse for Tyson. And so they had a farm and I think they sold the farm probably when I was in middle school and got the house that my grandma now still lives in. And but at the farmhouse, there was like this little toy pinball machine. I mean, toy pinball machine. It wasn't like all these other people. But the other story of people who don't remember pinball from the arcades are my dad or my uncle or my grandpa had like a real like they got a real electromechanical. This was not that I don't remember the side. I mean, as a kid, it felt bigger to me than I'm sure it was. But as near as I can, I can't remember the name of it. I think both of the flipper buttons controlled one large flipper that was at the bottom. This is like one flipper. And I believe it was a space theme. And the way the score worked is it was on a reel and you had to twist the reel and go like a ratchet and turn it like a bezel on a watch to reset it back to zero manually. and I think I vaguely remember putting my hands under it while it would activate the the pops or whatever on it because it would uh in true and or fashion electrocute me if I went to the battery power or whatever uh you know that tickle electrocution right but I just remember you know thinking a really interesting scene how it interacted and the score would advance when the ball would touch things and it was just one of those things that I didn't have at home that just sort of stuck with me. And I must have told that story at some point to Eric, my brother-in-law, because he and my sister years ago, 2012, were out at our, what we used to call the dirt mall, Great Mall of the Great Plains in Olathe. And they had a video game store that was going out of business. And in there was an electromechanical pinball machine that was for sale. And so my sister texted me and said, hey, Eric saw that there was this pinball machine for sale at this place that's closing and remembered that you mentioned, you know, remembering pinball from the farmhouse in Arkansas. And that was my first pinball machine. I went and bought it. That was Skylab. So that is my pinball origin story. I can't remember if I ever shared it. Maybe, maybe on another show. I don't think I ever really discussed it. I don't find it all that interesting normally to people, but I'm in a reminiscing mood. So I thought. Because you've shared the Skylab, the purchase of the Skylab. Oh God, now that was baby's first purchase with that app. They just first purchased. Dennis didn't know. Dennis didn't know what he didn't know. I transported that thing on its legs.
9:55
Back box sticking way up. Two little bungee cords. Like, we're talking full-on subreddit idiots in cars accident waiting to happen. It was starting to rain. I'm on the interstate.
10:08
The tarp is whipping. Almost escaped. Anyway, that was, none of that has to do with the farmhouse in Arkansas. All of that has to do with, oh, the legs. come off like the sellers didn't in my defense they're just like put back up to the back of this loading dock where you could you know immediately walk it into the bed they didn't explain anything like oh yeah you should probably take this off its legs because it's super top heavy and stuff like i didn't really lift it until i got home i was like how am i supposed to get this down these seem of course i broke it in the pro not i didn't drop it but like i bent a switch or something in the process of moving it because that's when i had to start learning how to fix them because So like the start button wouldn't work anymore because the switch actually got bent and closed. So it was constantly in contact. So it was resetting every game. Right. Because it thought I was pushing the start button all the time. Anyway, weird. I had that game for a long time. You did. But weird experience. So anyway, speaking of pinball, let us move. I do not have much here. And this time I really mean it. Well, it's that time of year. And I'm not going to drag it out. So first item is really the only news item. This is per nap arcade. And I do have a link in our show notes so people can go and read up on this. There's not a lot. There's not a lot to read because it's just Tony's.
11:21
For those I don't know. And how could you? Because you're not seeing the YouTube version because you guys don't pay enough Patreon money for that. The Tony has removed his glasses and he's doing the eye rubby thing. I just read the note. Yes. So per nap arcade, Chicago Gaming Company, CGC. It now sounds like they may not be shipping the LE versions of Cactus Canyon Remake until sometime in 2023. For those that don't recall, this was the game that was revealed at the 2021 Pinball Expo. They have been shipping standard editions for quite a while now, but there had been an issue with building the toppers, getting the stuff to build the toppers that had staggered it this long. From what I can tell from the article that NAPS put together, purportedly the issue now is something may need to be reworked. Now, if this is – That means the rumor corner from last time is correct. When they built the toppers, they're too big. They don't sit on – they expand out over the top of the thing. I mean – You heard it here first. The toppers are too large for the machine. There's too big. Somebody messed up the conversion from Imperial to Metric when they sent it over to get them built. And then they were all built, and they're too big. Too big. It's just terrible. Obviously. That Metric-Imperial conversion will get you every time. It would. I wonder how many pinball people can even work in Metric. That was judgmental. I shouldn't. They probably can. Probably all of them that aren't in America. That's a fair point.
13:01
You know, maybe. Maybe that's – obviously, if it's just the LEs, you would think it's the topper because what else was there? Everything else – I mean, there were a few other add-on things, but there's also the SE Pluses, which I'm assuming are likewise delayed. So unless it's something else like a trim thing in it, which you would have thought they – They've been saying the only issue was the toppers up until this point. So now, I agree. I think it's got to be topper-related. It's topper-related. Holy crap. What a bad – I mean, CGC is already notorious as probably being the slowest of the major manufacturers at actually building and shipping. They've always had this rep.
13:42
Let's include reveal. I mean, JJP has had some slow reveals. Right. But when everyone knew it was Monster Bash remake remember how long it took for that thing to come out And then it was just anyway I don know It just it unfortunate for again people must have incredible patience to continue to wait at this point But when you're at a year, I mean, it's a long time. And these individuals did not – it's not like ordering from Spooky or if you were to order from Multimorphic. They didn't think they were waiting a year when they ordered this. No, no. This was a surprise. And the thing is, they're waiting on – I mean, it's Cactus Canyon. It's no attack from Mars. It's no – yeah. It is definitely not as high priority of a thing. It just – yeah, without knowing more, it feels bumbling. It does. my impression was we're having trouble getting a part or parts to finish making it which is less bumbling and more supply chain issue but at this point after they had indicated for quite a while now that they were getting the final pieces to do it was imminent and then it sounded like they had them and now they're still not going out it's like yeah it could still be supply chain related it could be that they switched up to a different part and that part's not working right. Yeah. Or it doesn't have the right capability. Yeah, it might be a tolerance thing. But the thing is, is they're not saying. They're just like, duh, you guys got to wait another six months. And I don't know if they formally announced this either. This actually, from the way the article read, this is like sources.
15:27
Nap, of course, he's got sources beyond sources. He's like the spider in the web and everyone's coming to him and giving him all the juicy tidbits. What was the phrase that the spider in Game of Thrones, what do you call the kids? His little birds. Yeah, his little birds. His little birds. He has the little birds telling him everything. Okay, that's it for Pinball News. Woo-hoo! All right! So next thing, we actually had a query come in via Patreon from Procko, one of our Patreon subscribers. Remember, patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers, so you can be one of the cool kids.
16:04
This is what he wrote to us. Hey, you two. I got another discussion. I don't know if he sounds like this, so apologies, Procko, but this is how I'm choosing to make you sound. I've got another discussion topic in case you're interested in talking about it. Actually, it's two, but both related to themes. Number one, smaller themes on individual games versus theme collections on a single game. For example, doing one game per Harry Potter book or film versus doing one Harry Potter game. Or how Zen Pinball has basically given each Star Wars character their own pinball machine versus Stern doing one Star Wars game. And number two, how this would translate to video game themes. For example, you would have to focus on one of the Far Cry games or one of the Assassin's Creed games or one of the Zelda games because they are all in different settings and have different mechanics. And even though the whole series is easily recognizable for people, making a game only on one entry might be too niche. There are some series, though, where making a collection game would work, like Sonic, Resident Evil, Pokemon, or Roller Coaster Tycoon, because the mechanics are consistent. So thank you, Procco, for the query. Yeah, I do actually see these basically united. He's just kind of – his number two is diving more specifically into the idea of taking a video game concept and employing it in pinball, which Rollercoaster Tycoon was done by Star. It's probably the only – not only. Let me backtrack that. It's the most recent example I am aware of of a commercially produced video game theme for a pinball machine. Right. So what are your thoughts on this? Like, what do you think of doing an individual game or theme versus the whole series?
17:44
I think in several of these cases that were mentioned, I think it'd probably be best to do an individual theme.
17:58
Like I said, like if you're going to do a Far Cry game, which I wouldn't, but if you were going to do a Far Cry game, They're so spread out in thoughts and themes, like the differences between Far Cry Primal and Far Cry 5 and Far Cry 6.
18:16
I don't think they would pull together very well as part of a group thing. It'd be like the problem of trying to make a Grand Theft Auto pinball machine. It's like, which Grand Theft Auto do you make it off of? Because there's just so many differences. but I also think at the same time you're going to have to be very careful on how you pick because it is going to be niche and you need to be sure that you're picking the correct one like with Harry Potter I think you'd probably be best doing the series as a whole just a Harry Potter machine for the simple fact you're never going to get a machine out for every movie or every book it's just never going to happen I think it's too much of an investment of time and money and while you're going to get your fair number of Harry Potter fans what is Harry Potter fandom called? I don't know that will want everything I don't think that group is going to be big enough and most people don't have room in their collection to have seven Harry Potter machines so I think pulling them on just the series as a whole, something like that makes sense.
19:33
But then, like, if you were going to do a Legend of Zelda, none of them tie together that great. I know there's, like, this grand unified theory of the Legend of Zelda, but it's still, everything's so different. You'd have to, I think you'd have to pick one. And nowadays, if you were going to pick one, you would pick Breath of the Wild. I think that's pretty obviously, if you were going to pick one, is what you would drop right now for a Legend of Zelda game.
20:02
But, yeah, no, I think the big thing is going to be money and interest because the development cost of a machine compared to how many you'll sell when things start getting niche.
20:15
Yeah, overall I align pretty closely to what all you're saying. It definitely, much like Proko noted, it does depend a bit on the theme in terms of which might be viable. Some things aren't going to collection stick very well, and that would preclude the ability to go individual. I would say in most instances, all things being equal, it is best to focus on one item as long as that one item that you can identify is the strong item. Again, much like you said. So in the case of Legend of Zelda, the obvious modern, what you'd expect Stern to pick would probably be Breath of the Wild. Super successful, was a key cornerstone piece for the Switch. And is extremely popular. Now, the alternative would be you go the nostalgia route, which means you either do the first Legend of Zelda and base it around that, or you do the first one that was for the Super Nintendo where the rain was falling, because that's also like an all-time classic favorite. And your logic there is, oh, yeah, well, the people with money aren't the people who are playing Breath of the Wild. That's a younger audience versus those that will have the nostalgia pull of, like, I don't – well, I haven't played Breath of the Wild. But if I had played it, I'd probably say this is a really good game, but I wouldn't have a nostalgia for it. My nostalgia is for the ones I played as a child. So there's weighing that, just like we see currently. That's part of the reason why in his example of Stern and Star Wars, well, doing the original trilogy, and okay, it's a collection, but the trilogy is still – they didn't do all of Star Wars. They did the trilogy, which again has – you pull some iconic – I think it's easier for movies to go ahead, and that would be a difference I would also say. is with video games, I think it makes a lot more sense to do one game in particular. I mean, he cited like doing Resident Evil as a collection. But as you noted, even with the, I mean, the casts that are involved are involved in different games. It's easier to say we're going to do Resident Evil 2 and we're going to focus on like Chris and Jill and we're going to do that versus, or Leon, I'm sorry, Leon and Jill versus if you like, if you want to involve Chris Redfield, then you need to start thinking about a different game instead, rather than why would you bother blending? You're making more work for yourself. that were movies like John Wick as a series, Star Wars as a series, lends itself a lot easier to doing something like that. Just as a thought, what about when you look at games that are set in a consistent,
22:43
well-developed world? Would it be better to go off of a certain one or to create its own thing? for example Elder Scrolls or Fallout or Neverwinter Nights right something like that that and that you're mentioning of Grand Theft Auto made me think of that too actually I'd say for open world games it might make sense just to make up your own story and just bring in the elements of the mechanics in there so rather than picking between Grand Theft Auto 4 and following Niko or Grand Theft Auto 5 and following the three guys in that, instead of saying, we're going to do Grand Theft Auto and the play field will be Liberty City or something. You'll pick something like that and then you'll be like, alright, there's going to be modes where you're boosting cars and there's going to be modes where you're doing hits and there's going to be escort missions which will probably be as bad in pinball as they are and everything else.
23:36
And, you know, try and make it feel like the world of it. Kind of like what Stern did to the Chagrin of Many with Jurassic Park. But in this case You're just like, no, no, we're not trying to tell. It's not the story in most of those games that, I mean, there might be elements, like there might be parts of the story of Fallout 3 I like and the parts that I really like of Fallout New Vegas. But I think you could do a Fallout game and just make me feel, am I fighting Deathclaws and having to control my rad count and stuff and just experiencing the world of Fallout? I think you could pull that off a lot easier doing a video game than you would, like, doing a movie. Right. And, you know, if you're going to do that and it's pinball, then obviously it has to be set in Fallout Chicago. That would make sense.
24:22
That would make sense. So, yeah, it very much comes down to what you're addressing. But for most games, especially story-driven games, I would just focus on one rather than trying to blend them. I just think it's cleaner. And then you just need to pick the most popular, either the most popular or maybe the most recent. ideally it would be both. It's both most popular and most recent, or it's like Hollow Knight, or something where it's all just standalone. It's like, oh yeah, well they're doing a whole new thing with whatever song, or Silk's song, or whatever her name is. But I can just do Hollow Knight, and just kind of make it all Hollow-y. I don't know. I don't know. Figure it out.
25:03
But... Or go for the easy conversion, like Kirby's Pen Ball Adventure now is a real pen ball machine. Yeah, but I think the key thing to remember, which I thought you emphasized most excellent to pull a Bill and Ted line regarding Harry Potter is you're not going to get all of the games or movies or episodes of the show or whatever. In my mind, it does not make sense to go and explore worrying about, well, should we do Goblet of Fire or should we do Sorcerer's Stone or whatever it was, or Philosopher's Stone, I guess it depends on what country it was in.
25:44
It's like, you're not getting seven Harry Potters. So you can decide, should we just focus on one, or should we focus on the whole series, or a chunk of the series?
25:55
And there are probably arguments there for a variety of things that would motivate it. I think part of the issue with a show and why I mention shows, I think it makes more sense to do our movies to make more sense doing a collection is a lot of times there's a lot in a movie, especially in a series where there's like interconnect. A lot of the movie is interconnecting bits that aren't that interesting for like modes. So let's take James Bond, for example. Like when you're thinking Goldfinger, do we really care all that much about the scene where Pussy Galore and Sean Connery's James Bond are talking on the airplane? Or do we think more about like when Fort Knox gets gassed, the laser about to cut his balls off all of the, you know, there are certain set pieces, which maybe you take three from that movie and then you take three from Russian with love and three, you see, it works better. And that's where I, so like if we were talking to Harry Potter, I'd say, yeah, you get, I agree with you. You definitely do the whole series as one game. You ain't getting seven games. You're already running a risk with the nicheness of Harry Potter, which I get it. It's, it's a surefire theme. Don't get me wrong. But other than the most obsessive, diehard, FOMO, lack of self-control people, who really wants seven of them? I mean, it's a lot. Don't forget that the sixth movie, Harry Potter, and we spend the entire time in the tenth the whole movie, sucked. And so did that Chamber of Secrets one. It sucked, too. So there's two right there that shouldn't be games.
27:29
They both have set pieces that would be important. That's why in a collection, there's elements that are worthwhile. But as a standalone game, no. No.
27:40
By the way thanks Procco for the question That was a fun intellectual exercise Well Charlie we only have one more thing it time for your favorite part of the entire episode and that would be Rumor Corner Dennis Creasel's got the news before Napa Caves is that right Tony Okay, I've got to warn folks that the rumors, they're getting kind of rumor-y dry. We need more rumors, is what I'm saying. I need more rumors, so please write in to eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com if you've heard an interesting rumor that you would like to be explored on Rumor Corner. And as I often remind people, remember, Rumor Corner is about rumor-tainment. It's not about truth. These are rumors. They are very sus. We're not claiming it's not truth. Cormor. I can't even speak. These could be full of lies and deceit. So acknowledge and understand these may very well be pure fiction. I did actually have someone email in saying, why does Rumor Corner have this part, Dennis, where you declare the potential fakeness of all the stuff being said, yet the song that leads it in says that Dennis has the news before nap. and I said, well, look, first of all, we didn't commission that song. That just came in. Secondly, me potentially having news before nap has nothing to do with Rumor Corner. That's just a simple separate statement that happened to work its way into the song. We might have the news before nap, but that's separate from Rumor Corner. The rest of the song is just the words Rumor Corner repeated over and over and over. Therefore, the song is honest in its own way, or as Obi-Wan would say, from a certain point of view. so here's a rumor that i have received from the rumor providers point of view steve richie we know he's at jjp i have often been joking that he's working on mid-speed three because you know jjp games don't play fast uh that's a sequel that is very popular high speed now i've also heard some speculation i think we touched on anywhere in our corner before but if not i'll bring it up here now. There's been rumors going around that JJP has Top Gun, and it would be logical, given F-14 Tomcat, that people would think Richie might be on that, if that's indeed true. However, the latest rumor I've heard, and I've never heard this before, so I'm putting this in the full-on what's-us category, but I'm going to share it here, because this is Rumor Corner, is that Steve Richie's next JJP game is actually a music pin, and it's Elton John. Oh!
30:26
Rocket Man. I mean. I got Stopper, also. I'll get DMCA'd because I did that so perfectly. So perfectly.
30:34
I mean, I can see Elton John. Hold me close, my tiny pinball. You could remix all the songs as pinball songs. Interesting. I mean, obviously, Music Pin for JJP makes sense. It does. Like maybe aside from Wizard of Oz Which was so much cheaper compared to anything else they ever did Cost wise and had so much in it Is like their most successful sales game It's gotta be So I could see why they would want to go the route And Elton John is kind of a big deal Oh yeah no Elton John is a huge deal Don't get me wrong It just feels so different than the route Every music pin has gone Ever to go to Elton John Yes And with Steve Ritchie that's the other thing This rumor was specific that it's Steve Ritchie. That's so weird. I'm like, that's so... But that being said, Steve Ritchie, which I often associate with kind of like harder rock sort of things, like he did Aerosmith, for example. But he also did Elvis. He did do that pen. Yeah. So, and Elvis is rock, but it's, you know, not by today's standard would be in any way seen as hard rock. No. So, and Elton John's is soft rock. So, and given how J.J. Pease plays soft rock makes sense to me, but like thematically, their flippers will feel right at home with the latest and greatest soothing sounds of the 70s and 80s. Maybe, maybe the rumor is only partially true. And there is an Elton John tie-in, but he's actually doing a pinball based on the movie The Rock because it's you. You're the rocket. Yeah, I did think about it. I would love the scene with – what is that actor's name? He played Candyman. And he's been in Star Trek a ton. A ton. Yeah, I can't remember his name off the top of my head. Shoot. Anyway, I could see that on the JJP screen where he's waving the knife in front of the rocket and tossing it from hand to hand. And it would be a good little Easter egg. Kind of like how sometimes in Godzilla when you are supposed to see the Exilians or whatever they're called, and instead there's a goat that's sitting there. Anything like that. You know, with The Rock. Welcome to The Rock.
32:55
Anyway, whether or not it's partially true, totally true, or totally untrue, all I need to know is, was it rumor-taney to you?
33:04
Man, The Rock's a good movie. It's just a fun movie. It was the Elton John rumor-taney. Oh, yeah, no, that's completely rumor-taney, but now I'm fixated on the concept of you got to get the timing right. There's things, there's a ball lock where everything moves. You got to get the timing right, like going through the little flame burst to get up there and get the ball shot, the ball lock. I want the ball to be custom, like the black Navi ball. I want it to look like the VX gas ball. Oh, the little green. Yeah, green pinball. Oh, that'd be so cool. Do you know, I actually had someone message me saying they hated the rock. They thought it was terrible. and they felt dumber watching it. I mean... This is another pinball podcast host. It's not Zach either. I mean... Zach doesn't need to say anything. He thinks Crude's Tuesday is worthy of an Oscar.
33:56
I mean, it's not a smart movie. It's a fun movie. I argued on the last... You don't know this because you don't listen to the show, but on the last pinball show, I had argued that The Rock is the greatest action movie. and I think it's Michael Bay's best film it is Michael Bay's best film it's not the greatest action movie what's the greatest action movie? Die Hard that's a good argument and I've argued that Die Hard should have had a pinball machine I mean honestly that Die Hard didn't get a pinball machine in the 80s I can only attribute to the fact that pinball was in one of its slumps because that movie you'd think by Die Hard 2 they'd have done it but they never did shocking. And I think that one would still sell, but of course, given what's happened with Bruce's health, I don't think he could do call-outs at this point. But we'll find someone else.
34:51
No, I think I consider Die Hard perhaps the greatest action movie of all time. That's good. It is good. Well, video games. Let's get to the greatest action of this podcast, because I didn't have much on pinball. Well, I've got a lot more in video games that I initially thought. I'm going to open up. We had a request on Facebook from John Brand for some recommendations for PS5 games. So, here's a caveat. I don't have a PS5. Dennis doesn't have a PS5.
35:22
So, a lot of these are going to be games that I either played on my PS4 or games that are available on multi-platform.
35:31
But, I will say, the God of War games. you should really play the God of War games. They're really good. The new one's just coming out, God of War Ragnarok. The previous one was great.
35:49
Similar vein, similar kind of open world thing is the Horizon Zero Dawn games. I love those games. I have a couple of those out now, yeah. Yeah, those are great.
35:57
Spider-Man, best game, my favorite game I've played on console since like, I don't know, maybe sometime in the 90s. Mini Ninjas. Yeah, Mini Ninjas. You loved Mini Ninjas. Mini Ninjas was good. I will admit, Mini Ninjas was way more fun than that game had any right to be. But the Spider-Man game, I know they recently put out a remastered edition for PS5, and there is a new one out based around Miles Morales that's either out or coming out.
36:30
And I would recommend it. If you like superheroes, you like Marvel, they got the web swinging right. It was a ton of fun. That game had a fast travel system, and I almost never used it because the swinging through the city was so much fun that I pretty much never fast traveled. That game was a lot. And if you're into the really hard stuff The get good noob style of games Ghost of Tsushima and Elden Ring Are both beautiful and amazing to look at And I'm terrible at them Because those get good noob games are bad For me I mean it's not that they're bad I'm just I can't I don't have the skills necessary for it Depending upon your I mean I don't think PS5 is necessarily the best choice If you're into like racing games Because I think Xbox has the better Racing series But PS5 does have Gran Turismo 5 I think it is Whatever the new Gran Turismo is And I've heard good things about it There's Also for older games If you like Star Wars The Jedi Fallen Order which has Jedi Survivor, the sequel coming out next year. Both good, also in the open world and kind of fun style game. And obviously, if you like first person shooters, you have your choice of all of the good, the Call of Duties and the Battlefields and all of that stuff. I don't really play any of those, so I can't really recommend any of them in particular. since we're talking about the playstation 5 though sony has announced that playstation vr 2 will be releasing in february with a decent list of games and several other games getting patches to give them vr capabilities for vr 2 at launch including no man's sky but you want that vr 2 You're going to have to dig deep into the wallet Because It's $550 For the pre-order That's over a fourth of a Mandalorian topper I know, what are you going to do? You could get A tiny piece of the Mandalorian topper For that A quarter of it Get one of the stickers This is one of those things that makes Talking about between video games And pinball so interesting Because it's like They raised price The PS5 is now $500 And you're like So what I've got three pinball machines in order It's okay Yeah You can get a little price shock Doing comparisons between the two There's a reason why video games Have a lot more people buying them It's not just space They are far more affordable Better economies of scale Overwatch 2 So they announced at their financial earnings that they have 35 million players in the first month of Overwatch 2 being active. Considering they had 25 million in the first week, okay. They did have to remove another character from play. Mei was disabled for a couple weeks. I don't know if she's back in yet or not, but should be pretty soon. if not due to an exploit found with her ice wall, just like in Overwatch 1. Yeah, she's had a few problems. They found that her ice wall had... I can't remember if she's back or not. I don't. She's so not a good choice currently that I wasn't playing her anyway. She can't freeze anymore. Right. And with the crowd control changes, that hurts her because that was her... Yeah, that was her thing. That was her shtick. I mean, I used her a little bit early on and I still had some success, but she's just not a meta pick. Right. You know me, I'm only picking meta. Yeah, that's how you roll meta. Yeah, she's not Bastion level of broken where she's out of the game and just completely gone. They did bring Bastion back, though. He is back. Oh, he is back. Yes. And how'd that work out? It's fine. His ult sucks.
40:50
It's just like you feel really bad if you die to his ult. We talked last episode about Square Enix following up with their still pushing hard on their NFTs,
41:03
and they've now announced their first interactive NFT project. FTX? Sorry. Sorry, Crypto Bros. Too soon. Okay. Sorry. Go on. They announced a game they're calling Symbiogenesis.
41:28
It going to launch in the spring as a browser game on PC and mobile So really A browser game It makes me think of Flash games from the early era. Oh, yeah.
41:46
Wow. They're going to be using the Ethereum blockchain and your characters will be collecting digital art and there's an interactive story where you will be going through and it will bring up questions regarding the monopolization and distribution of resources on the blockchain and NFTs. We got to talk about how much you monopolize this resource as you use energy to buy an NFT in your browser. oh so good so good squares also had some issues uh they dropped the uh big trailer for final fantasy 16 and um some people has taken a little offense at it they noticed that there's one female in every single character is white uh and they brought that up there's only one one woman in it in the trailer wow well i mean that's very atypical for even historic final fantasy games usually the roster has been like split gender-wise at least yeah in the trailer there is like i only recognize saw one okay of course there was to be fair it's a final fantasy game there were several very effeminate men. So there could have been more than one, but there was only one obvious one.
43:22
And everybody was white. And Yoshida, the game director, addressed the issue in an interview with IGN.
43:32
He said that the question was not unexpected, but they had decided to keep the game to a limited scope, being set in a single landmass geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the world. He said, and I quote, Ultimately, we felt that while incorporating ethnic diversity into Valis Thea was important, an over-incorporation into the single corner of a much larger world could end up causing a violation of those narrative boundaries we originally set for ourselves. The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality. It can be challenging to assign distinctive ethnicities, that I just pronounced terribly, to either antagonist or protagonist without triggering audience preconceptions, inviting unwarranted speculation and ultimately stoking flames of controversy. In the end, we simply want the focus to be less on the outward appearance of our characters and more on who they are as people. People who are complex, diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations. People whose stories we can resonate with. There is diversity in Valisthia, diversity that, while not all-encompassing, is synergistic with the setting we've created and is true to the inspirations from which we are drawing.
44:40
That has brought some rather firm comments online because the game is heavily based in medieval Europe. And lots of commenters about, you know, there were persons of color in Europe in the Middle Ages.
44:57
And that with the game being rooted in reality means there can be no persons of color. But magic, giant monsters, that's all very real and very much acceptable. Yeah, this is a – if they were doing a game that was historically grounded, they might have an argument. Like let's say they were – let's say your party was all members of Axis fighting forces, for example. You probably have an excuse for them all being men, maybe all being white. If you're focusing on a particular country's military, for example. But when you're saying you're doing a fantasy game And you're saying you're granting it in reality You're like well Okay so you're granting it I'm not surprised at the backlash Because it doesn't feel like a very good excuse To me it's more like we didn't think about it Instead of saying oh we didn't think about that They're making it sound like they did think about it And that this was the right answer Right It's tough Because again this was the same thing that came about with people whining about things like House of the Dragon. It's like, why is this person this color or this gender? It's like, they're dragons, you know, right? Like the rules, whatever rule you're trying to apply, I don't think it works this way because this is fiction. Right. Fantasy fiction. We're talking about like what something happened in 1940s on Okinawa. You'd have a different argument if you had like a bunch of white people running around when they shouldn't be there. Right. But it's different when you're in Valestia. Right. It's a similar argument that happened with the Wheel of Time TV show, where several of their characters were of various ethnicities. I just cannot say that word today. There were a bunch of people of different ethnic persuasion than people had pictured in their mind, and it turned into this whole huge thing. and even when people went back and were like looking at the descriptions of the characters in the book, at no point did it ever say what their skin color was or anything, or at most it was said had a darker complexion. That was it. There were several people who was like, yeah, this person is like a pasty white redhead on several people. But there are others where there is no description anywhere in that two and a half million words of what their skin color is, and people are still raging. It's interesting to me because it seems so different from how I remember other scenarios. I'm going to use an interesting case in point is like Jeffrey Deaver in his Lincoln Rhyme books. He wrote Lincoln Rhyme as a white man, but because Denzel Washington played him in The Bone Collector, and that was a lot of people's first exposure to it. That's how a lot of people started to picture him in the books. And I think, I'm not sure, but I think he may have quit describing the guy's skin color later on because he's like, people just think of Denzel now when they read my books. And I was like, they're buying my books. More power to them. They can think of whoever they want. Yeah. You know, that was the important aspect of the character. I mean, look at Nick Fury.
48:06
Nick Fury is an interesting one because Marvel obviously pivoted to actually starting to draw Nick Fury like Samuel L. Jackson, which is not his historic look. No, no. So, I mean, because, like, Nick Fury from the Marvel Ultimates universe, which was one of the side universes where everything started over and was different, was modeled to look like Samuel L. Jackson. Before Samuel L. Jackson was Nick Fury. And then when they made Nick Fury, they made Samuel L. Jackson Nick Fury. So. Yeah. So, anyway. Okay, well, Square, they're making some interesting choices lately. It has been so weird, but still, with their latest financial thing, as always, overall, their income is falling from everything except for Final Fantasy XIV, which was also directed by Yoshida and has a massive amount of diversity of races and characters and massive customization.
49:16
So it is well seen from the diversity standpoint because it's an interesting – This is not something that Square historically had an issue with, I don't feel. I don't remember hearing a lot of complaints. Maybe you follow Square more closely than me. There's been some stuff because, like, in the single-player Final Fantasy games, there's not been a lot of diversity of the ethnic sort. There's lots of, you know, male-female diversity. But, I mean, most of the other diversity is either side characters or people who don't necessarily like Barrett in Final Fantasy VII didn't necessarily come off well and came off very much as a stereotype with his actions and everything. But, yeah, it's not typically been hit as hard as it has been recently.
50:20
We'll see. We'll see how that goes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're still going to sell. a whole ton of games. I probably, uh, I don't know how many of these browser games will get played, but we'll see about that. I mean, browser games. I know there are some really complicated involved browser games out there. Uh, they exist, but wow, they're there. This is their choice. And there does. And their plan is for that to start. that's the first game in a new franchise and it's going to be a browser game weird weird weird weird we talked earlier about Horizon Zero Dawn very fun game and it's sequel Sony's reportedly in talks with NCSoft the publishers of Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 about making Horizon Zero Dawn MMO which I think would probably go over really popular. It could.
51:26
They've got a well-fleshed out interesting world in Horizon Zero Dawn, and it could be a good place for that. So I'll be kind of interested to see what happens with that one.
51:38
And also we got a release about the best part of January, Awesome Games Done Quick. They're running the 8th through the 15th of January, and they've announced their preliminary schedule. Oh, okay. Starting at 11am on the 8th With an any% Splatoon 3 run Followed by an any% Breath of the Wild run I'm already interested The very first bonus game up for grabs Is a 300% Cuphead run They've got just some of the ones that I picked out Randomly They've got an any% no slots Final Fantasy 7 run I think it's been a number of years Since we've seen a Final Fantasy 7 run They've got an any% glitchless Pokemon Red and Yellow run My daughter will be looking forward to that A Fallout 3 all quest run Oh wow, that feels like it's going to take all night But it's not, it's time set is pretty low Like surprisingly low I'm assuming, since it's an all quest run But they don't say anything else I'm assuming they're going to be using that weird Final Fantasy 3 glitch Or not Final Fantasy 3, the word Fallout 3 glitch where if you walk, there's these glitches where if you're at the right place at the right time, you can literally jump to the opposite side of the map. Oh, yeah, I've seen that before. So I'm guessing it's going to use something like that, but I thought it would be interesting. They're doing a Power Wash simulator, six-player, all vehicles, no soap run. Okay. Okay, whatever. It just sounded insane to me.
53:13
And they set up a really strong finish on the 15th, on Saturday. Their final games are going to be Half-Life Alex run, Dark Souls 2 Scholar of the First Sin Old Souls run, A Link to the Past 100% run, Pokemon Legends Arceus All Lords run, and they're going to finish with Super Mario Bros. 3 Any% Warpless. I assume that'll be a race between four people. I'm assuming. That's how they often do. Those are usually pretty good. So it'll be – I'm looking forward to it. I always look forward to – That's the thing is like summer games done quick, I tend to miss a lot. But I try to get as much as much of the awesome games done quick. Summer games done quick does worse just in general. Probably because a lot of people are on vacation and doing other things in the summer. And in January, most people are not doing anything else. They're like, I'm just going to sit here. And they usually can tell by the fundraising numbers too. Right. So and just to finish up today A little interesting Ted bit on the Microsoft Buyout of Activision Blizzard The EU has Decided they need to take a deeper look into The merger they Finished their preliminary investigation And the questions that Came back about how much It's going to affect or Possibly affect other Players in the publishing world Has made them decide to open up a deeper dive investigation. Okay. So it didn't get the quick glance rubber stamp that I think Microsoft was hoping for in the EU. That's not a surprise, really.
54:52
Okay. So there we are. Short show. Yep. Super short. And if you want to comment about how short we were, you can always email us at collectivegamerspodcast.gmail.com, or you can go to facebook.com slash or click the Gamers Podcast and use the Messenger tool to send messages about what PS5 games you think Tony needs to recommend to you. Yeah, definitely, because I can tell you right now just by looking at the PS5 games I recommended that I play single-player open-world games. Yes, hide in the tall grass games. You might have noticed. So I've been Tony. And I'm Dennis, and goodbye, everybody. See you.