The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round. Hey, how you doing? My name is Jeff Teolis. My name is Martin Robbins. This is the final round Pinball Podcast episode 47. Coming off a big buzz having Jessie J on. Nice to have her on and hear her once again. Yeah, absolutely. Always a joy. You know, her podcast was great, at least half of it. At least half of it. If you're wondering what we're talking about, let's introduce our next guest, the other half of the now defunct JesseJays podcast. And I assume the reason for that, you know him, you love him, that twat known as Ryan C. Hey Ryan, how are you? What's the difference between a twat and a twat? The country of origin. Ah, so it does mean the same thing, you call me a twat. Hi, I'm Ryan. There used to be an airline called TWA and I always thought it would be funny if the flight attendants would go up, would you like some TWA coffee or TWA tea? And I was like, what? There's a company in the city here in Melbourne called ANL and they have a big sign that says ANL and I cannot for the life of me, even as an adult, go past it without thinking of anal. I don't know if you have the same feeling. Marty, do you know the one near Melbourne Convention Centre? Yeah, I do know exactly where you mean. So a person I used to work with, my old boss actually, he got a new car and the number plate was A-N-L, you know, number, number, number. And somebody actually cut out the letter A and put it on his number plate. And he drove around like that for weeks without noticing. I think we're all Arrested Development fans and we remember when Tobias was an analyst and a therapist or as his business card said, an anal rapist. Anourapus, yea the world's first anourapus which is anourapus or a new start when you hear in the fourth of this season which is anus tart, a new start. Speaking of anus, how are you buddy? I'm pretty good man, it's a yeah, how long has it been? It's been two months so I guess it's time for me to come on the show and talk shit and talk pinball. I assume you're well rested? Yeah, so you had a lot of people over last night I'm assuming to play a new game. Yeah, so we're on the other side of the world here in Australia and it's... You got turtles! Game of Thrones just arrived! We got the many on this remake! The originals are finally coming down in price! No, Mandalorian, for some reason, the main shipment just got stuck somewhere and then they had to swap boats. I don't know, a whole bunch of excuses. The bottom line is it was on the water for four months Bob Pinball people are fun. Don't ask me for my opinions too much on the game because I think I just talk to everyone instead. But what was people's general consensus then? Was it the pro or the LE that's better? Yeah, I was asking people as they were leaving, they were like, see you later Ryan. I'm like, oh before you go, which one do you like better? And everyone had a very absolute binary, as you like to call it, muddy response and most people said it was the LE except for one person. Um, I was just like, ah, all the shots are there, you know, like, and the pros, you know, pro does the job. But I guess a lot of people have been playing, like, the pro, I guess, on location and then they would play the premium or the LE at someone's house. And it's, I guess, maybe not a fair comparison when you're playing in two different environments and maybe potentially paying for one and not paying for the other. But what's apparent, I guess, is the presentation and the sound coming out, like, and the shaker motor. All these little tiny things might add like 5-10% on the whole package in the experience and going from one to the other. I do find, and people have talked about this, and this is old news now. No, no, this is great for November to talk about Mandalorian. This is good. And you set it up perfectly by saying that there was a problem on the boat. I think we saw that in the Tom Hanks movie. I think it was a shipment on the Captain Phillips movie of the pinball machines going to Australia and the pirates got it. We're fine. Go on. Talk about Mandalorian. This is exciting. The wire forms on the Allium Premium versus the clear ramps on the crisscross ramps on the Pro, they're not super duper clear and they kind of mess with your vision a little bit. I think after a little while you get used to it, but I guess you don't realize you're missing out, even though it's clear because I guess the curvature of the ramp, like each side, it's not clear in those points. So it's obstructing a bit of the playfield. On the pro? Yeah on the pro, yeah. You didn't know? Geez, I've only played the pro, I've never noticed any kind of blind spots if you will, but obviously wireforms would be easier to see, that's interesting. Yeah. Anyway, I think Godzilla comes in in about a month so I don't know. Bullshit, it'll be there in September next year. Well, there are actually Godzillas in the country because this weekend Pinfest is on And in fact Jessie J messaged me to say, just played Godzilla and you know what, it's actually a lot of fun. After she shit on it all last week? Correct. I got a message from Jess yesterday and said Godzilla's a bit meh after playing it and like, does it shoot well? Because like she said it's pretty much like Avengers. I'm like well Avengers is amazing to shoot, I just don't like the rules and the sound and everything so if that's fine then it'll be an absolutely amazing game. Um, and she wrote me a message just an hour ago saying, I take everything back that I said. Godzilla, and this is a quote, Godzilla is fucking sick. So, there you go. There's a, there's an official retraction of the comments from last week. There was one shot, the way it resulted, that reminded me of Avengers. So, in Avengers, when you go up that ramp that all three flippers can hit, it's the big right ramp. On the pro, I think it's the one that completes your gem. The really thick ramp. When you go up that ramp, it kinda goes on a wire form and then kinda goes up before you can hit it on the upper flipper. In Godzilla, when you go through the building on the Pro and it comes out on that magnet, it does the same kind of action if it doesn't hold the ball, where it puts it kind of around and then back on the flipper. I thought it was very similar. Obviously different results where you're going with it, but it really reminded me of Avengers. That's about it. My God, Godzilla's amazing. You played it at Pinball Expo, Jeff? I was playing tons and tons and it was the first time I played it and I even had to pick a game in a playoff and I was like, oh, let's do Godzilla. I mean, it was pretty intuitive. It told you what to do. Everything was well lit. I don't know where the points were, but I kind of liked the shots. Yeah, it was fun. And I found the premium in LE. Flip N Out had an LE at their site. Zach Many brought his and there were a lot of premiums at the Stern booth. The toys are great in the premium in LE. That mech Godzilla is I think that's pretty awesome, the rotating little thing there on the right. But I didn't think the Pro was really lacking a lot. Yeah, you don't get the bridge, the building doesn't come down, but the game's kind of the same. In fact, the Pro might have been a little harder once you had to get the Mechagodzilla because there were some really awkward stand-ups that were difficult to hit, whereas on the Premium and the LE, I found it easier to get into Mechagodzilla. Isn't it strange how it's the same title but little things can make such a big difference? And we still do it I guess now for, you know, or which version of Many EvilMan is on Attackfromus? Do you have the original or the remake? And we know the little differences, subtle, that encompasses but no one ever says, oh what version of Dirty Harry do you have? It's just, I have Dirty Harry full stop and you know the rules and the layout and everything but yeah, having Mandalorian side by side, even the smallest little differences make, not the smallest little differences, like the playfields, you know, keeping the ball up there. I'm curious, Ryan and Marty, we can continue our conversation from the last pod. You just said when you have Dirty Harry, it's Dirty Harry. It's the same rules, it's the same playfield. Newer games have different versions. For the most part in the last few years, they've been pretty similar rules, maybe one added thing. I think the first time I ever noticed, well, that's a little different than the pro was probably Tron with Daft Punk Multiball. A lot of these games are having different rules and to continue And that's all for this episode of Pinball What we were saying last pod. Now, the rules are going to even change again when you can buy new code. Marty, have you thought more about this, Ryan? What do you think about this? There are so many games coming out and there's only so much brain capacity you can have. And I remember when I was really getting into pinball, like to a very hardcore level, I could absorb all the rules because the cadence of pinball machines coming out, you know, you could watch some streams and, you know, I kind of like knew what the general rules were. The So when you think about it, you're not really learning the rules once. You're learning the rules, say, like, five different times across the, you know, depending on how many times they update the codes. Say, Guardians for Guardians of the Galaxy, for example. You can learn the base rules, but there's certain, there were certain exploits. It was like GRID all day, then it was ORB all day, and then it was like, okay, modes and, you know, do this and do that. And then the amount of games that are coming out from Stern, Knapp Arcade? Like there's a, there's a lot to learn here. And I don't know if I, I don't know if I want to learn it. You have to, if you want to win tournaments, but to add an extra layer on top of that by like, you know, some DLC, but who knows if that'll be included in competitions. I also think that, um, I guess with, with Stern as well, just about every machine in recent years, not looking at you monsters, but has really quite complicated code. So it's not just the cadence. It's also the depth of code of each machine that's coming out that you have to understand. And probably the one that I think I still find the most confusing is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, because there's lots of combinations, different turtles, different ways you can approach it. And that's just one machine, and then you've got more. And then you've also got, you know, Guns N' Roses, Jersey Jack with its Kate Johnson ruleset, another head fuck to try and get your head around as well. Trying to figure out those patches and what is best for each song and yeah I mean you can flail away for a long time as long as you know how to complete the song get into encore I guess that's pretty good but there's different ways to blow it up and I think with a lot of these games you really have to have a lot of time on them which basically means you need to own them because it's gonna be tough to keep pumping quarters and loonies and dollars into these games to really learn them unless people are streaming. I'm not reflective of the fact that most machines these days go to the home market and people do want code that's going to keep their attention for a long time. Back in the days when it was all on location, it didn't matter. That's what I'm saying, they're all coming out with long rules. I don't know whether we've all got enough time to absorb them all. It's hard. We talked about this last time, I think. Who are you designing the pinball machine for? You would like to design it for everyone, but everyone plays differently. Seth Ross They tell me like this is one of the good ones. But it might not be the best game for them, but they like owning the game that people they trust and know, you know, pat them on the back like yeah, you got a good one. Versus like oh my gosh, you got the monsters and you like it, like how dare you enjoy this simple game. So I think there's like an extra layer of complexity there with just, you know, most people own pinball machines for themselves, The game is a game of the past, but there still is that factor of being part of the community and people patting you on the back and saying, cool, you've got this cool game. Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm trying to understand what you're saying, Ryan, because you mentioned earlier Avengers Infinity Quest and you weren't crazy about the rules there. Whereas a lot of players, especially those top 500 players will tell you that's a good rule set. And conversely, you have a game like Elvira, House of Horrors, where every shot is makeable. The rules are fun and you think it's the greatest whereas those top 500 players like, uh, no. Yeah, I'm not saying everyone, I'm not saying that I'm... Whose opinion is more valid? The top 500 or the majority of people? Probably the majority of people if I was a manufacturer. Well, but it doesn't matter whether you're a manufacturer or whether you're a human being. Just because you've got the top 500 saying it's the best, that doesn't mean it actually is the best. It's binary, Marty. One or the other, pick one. It's just not. And Ryan and I have had this conversation before and I know you and I Jeff, it's whatever makes people happy. That's the most important thing and if Elvira makes people happy and the top 500 people don't like it, well fuck them. It's also though like you have to trust someone or get someone's opinion because with the market these days everything's selling out before you see it so you kind of have to make all these assumptions anyway. It's not like this thing where you go and play a game like, I'm like, oh yeah, I think I'll walk down to the distributor and buy that on the weekend and pick it up. It's like... No, I understand that. I get that. But what I'm saying is like, if the best players in the world say this machine is the best, the average player probably won't be able to play those games and get the same enjoyment out of it. So therefore, it's not a valid opinion for everyone. That's what I was getting at. Like the Avengers being, I hate to keep on using Avengers as an example, but Avengers being a great game for people that understand the rules And enjoy that doesn't translate. I mean, we've got a mutual friend, Marty, who bought Avengers Premium and I had a chat to him the other day about it. I think he I like I got the alley before he got the premium and he asked me my opinion and I gave him a very honest opinion and then he got his and he really enjoyed it and then now he's selling it or maybe it's sold and it ended up being a very similar opinion where it's just, you know, he just didn't find it fun and he maybe didn't find it fun because he didn't understand the complexity of the rules and that's where the fun comes from. Yeah, well he just said it's not as fun, unfortunately, as the other games I have, like Deadpool and whatever other games he has in his collection at the moment. So it's too hard, how does he enjoy his Elvira now? But I guess it's not just that it's too hard to shoot, I mean it's a good shooting game, but if you've got a complicated ruleset, you're not getting fed the feel-good moments that make you want to play it more. I'll say this about Godzilla. For a first time playing the game, I think I knew what I was doing. That wasn't the case for Avengers by any means. What gem am I going to pick? I don't know. Where do you place it? What? Yeah, there's a lot of confusing things there for the first time player and it really takes many games to kind of get a feel for it. And then of course difficult shots on top of that. But Godzilla, pretty well laid out. So I think Mandalorian, you know, you've got them there. I think they do a good job there. The Foundry, you got to kind of play which one you want to play. Blub� Currently a pool audienceßen Normally be you know einer Tneck! dicen concealer Be my introduce to the Action Parity livestream dels Razagruntsenza mallTreustering. Let's «h registry»! So there you go. Okay, is that on the instruction card? No, but by the way on Godzilla there's an attaball insert on the Mechagodzilla. Just for you Jeff, just for you. And how do you light it? You select it. You can choose to select it. There are three you can choose. Is that also on the instruction card? It's the most laid out of any attaball I've seen in a long time, Marty. Hey Jeff, how do you add a ball in Star Wars when you're in one of the mini wizard modes? Like the sausage, sausage mode of each of the four. Sausage mode? I know what you mean. No, the sausage, the sausage is there. I believe you have to knock the force targets down either once or twice depending on the settings and then hold the button for a few seconds and that will add a ball. We could go through so many games and I couldn't tell you how to add a ball on several and I don't think you could either. You know, it's hitting pin tips right before you start a playoff or a match play, just to kind of figure it out. I wish it was a little easier. It does matter. I know Dwight and I have had good conversations where he says it doesn't matter. Sorry, it does matter. It's low on the priority list. And he might be right. But for me, that's something that's a big advantage. So it does matter to me. What were you getting at, Marty? What was Marty getting at there? You're being a little cheeky there. What were you getting at? The obvious like you going oh edible edible I like well it still confusing so on Fibonacci numbers exactly um no I just my point that I still think that games these days are too complicated for their own good and I think that's because, look, obviously I don't know these developers and coders to know what's going on in their head, but to me it seems like in the past somebody would start working on a rules framework and if it ended up being It was getting really complicated. It ended up being complicated. Now, I think they're going into it wanting a complicated rule Set and I think that takes away some of the magic of discovering good pinball rules. And if you want it more complicated, you can buy extra code too, like Cactus Canyon. Go ahead there Ryan. We've talked about it off air. I hate the idea of it. I wish it was included. I don't like the buying model. Pay Lyman, pay Josh, include it. Who do you think is getting paid more, Lyman or Josh? Better be Lyman. No, what I was going to say is that I feel like, you know, we kind of complain a little bit about unintuitive rule sets or complex rules, but I think that they absolutely have to do it because people are so, and I think we might have touched on this last time with the Willy Wonka update where they changed all the settings to be easier, kind of by default, and people kind of said, well, couldn't people have just gone into the settings anyway? butt. . I was like, that was so much fun that I don't want to sell this game and I just want to make it harder and I progressively made it harder and harder until ruling the universe was like, you know, that one in 500 kind of game. But I still don't do it to other games and that's all it is. Like some games need to be complex because of the layout. Some games need to be simple. But if your skill set is you're in the top 100 players versus you're in the top 100 players, then you're in the top 100 players. So I think that's a good thing. You're pretty average at pinball. The same game can get away or whatever it is. You can have it in your collection for a long time and it can be challenging, but you have to toughen it up. People don't do that. It's just like it comes out of the box and people usually just play it as it is. And if it magically suits their play style, then they'll enjoy it. If it doesn't, they get rid of it. But the bone of the manufacturers is that they want to sell pinball machines to as many people as possible. And that doesn't mean just like the one machine. They want to sell machines to people that love them so much that they'll buy the next title. So, who are you coding it for? Well, you have to like it but also it can't be so easy that you pass it on before you're manufacturing the next game or you finish the run. Like the secondhand games, you know, it'd be great for manufacturers if secondhand games weren't available until they stopped making the game. And that would allow them to keep on selling that game. It's like 20% more or something. But if you do a direct translation of the 9,250 US dollars, I think it is, to Australian dollars, there's a decent couple thousand dollar markup there. And it doesn't matter because they're all sold out. So if... It's funny because I guess all the US distributors had to sell it at retail price, but... No, they didn't. No, that's not true. Okay. It was suggested and because of the number of games they got, they could dictate the price. I put my name down cuz I was curious. I'm like, well, if Josh and Lyman are gonna be involved, I would love to maybe have an alley and see what that's like. But I don't know how much that code is gonna cost. And I wanted to leave a buffer, maybe like a one and a half, $2,000 buffer for the code. I have no idea how much it's gonna cost. By the way, this is not inside information. But at $17,000, that means that at a $2,000 buffer, it would be $19,000, which I'm not paying for a fucking Cactus Canyon. Like, you know, sometimes Sometimes your mind might play tricks and you're like, ah, should I, should I, I guess I can get my money back and it's like, no, that's a fucking car, like... Let's break this down. You're not getting it. If it had been the 92 or 95 US price translated into Australian dollars at 20%, we're looking 12, $13,000, I'm guessing you probably would have bought that, right? Sure, in the heat of the moment, like you get the, that little window of, you're like, ah, man, new pinball machine, this will make, this will make me happy, yeah. Okay, so you would have bought that. Yep. The dealer is setting their price, the distributor, and they realize they can sell it for probably $17 and it'll be sold out. Are you sensing that this is not a model you like with the distributors? Because distributors have been watching for the last few years LEs be gobbled up instantly. I can't remember the last time an LE wasn't sold out instantly, probably, it's not an LE but it was probably Beatles. And they were selling them at the suggested retail price. And even before the games were delivered you would see them on the marketplaces, pin side, wherever. Here's my spot. Here's the price. And funny enough there was two or three thousand dollars added to that. So, now the distributors are going why am I selling LE to these people that are flipping them when I can just do that why can't I get a piece of that pie. Especially when inventory is low and, yes, the popularity is huge for pinball right now. But it's like car dealerships. Yeah, people want to buy cars. There are no cars. People want to buy pinball machines. There are no pinball machines available. I talked to five distributors at Expo. Nobody had any inventory. Nobody. And major distributors. So now the distributors are getting a few of these machines and they're, some would say, price gouging. But people are paying for that. And, you know, it hit your limit. But you also did buy a Mandalorian LE and a Pro with, I'm guessing, the idea that you were going to flip that LE. ABC The only time is, oh, I didn't like this game. That was the reason. That's it. Yeah, I've been offered like $30,000 for my Tron Alley that I bought for $10,000 and I didn't take it. I sold my Avengers Alley for the exact same price that I got it. Sorry, this isn't the Ryan Morrill story. This is... Why are you framing me like that? I'm telling you... Okay, I'll tell you why I bought it. I'm making a point. I bought it because I bought the Mandler in LA because I like buying things that I know I have a very... Like I'm risk averse financially in that way that I know that I should be able to get my money back maybe plus or minus $1,000. That's why. It's the confidence of everything. This isn't about you. This is about the market. This whole thing is about the market. My observation is that pinball for you, Marty, Ryan, myself, many people listening, it's a hobby, but it's not becoming a hobby anymore. Pinball is becoming all about commodities, buying and trading and flipping and that's what we're seeing with these LE models, that's probably what we're seeing with Cactus Canyon, whether it's through the distributors, whether it's on marketplace, it's very scary right now. No, Jeff, Jeff, you're seeing it, but you're not seeing it a lot. There's a couple of people that are doing it. No, no, no, no, no. Are there like 500 people flipping their L.A.s? Out of 1500? Quantify it. It's not that many people that are buying them to flip. There probably is more than there has been before, but it's still the vast majority of people are buying these machines to play them. I think that's a bit of scaremongering. Mmm... The price keeps going up, we keep seeing them on the marketplace, things are available. I remember asking Dr. John, did you get an LE of whatever it was? No, you can always get one later. Sure. Again, people aren't buying these to save them. I've had a few talks with some of the distributors and stuff and that's kind of what people... I mean, Ryan certainly opened up Mandalorian, but there are a lot of people that aren't doing it. I'm not saying it's the majority like you suggest, Marty, but... or like you, you know... But you're just saying that it's... you're saying it's so prevalent. Well, it's not. It's just we see it and we are angry at it, but it's not Fear of missing out. Yeah, but what I'm saying is it's not as widespread as you're making it out. You don't think it's gotten worse in the last few years? Come on. Yeah, it has. It's probably gone from five people to twenty people. Bullshit. No way. Here's a dumb thing. The alley version of a game is purely cosmetic. Like, you can buy the premium and have the same thing. Yes. Yes! Stern want people to buy the LE but they don't want to make the LE so fucking good that people are like, well I refuse to buy the premium because I'm not going to get the same experience. Like that whole dark part of the pinball thing is, yes. Ryan, you gave me shit because I'm buying an Avengers premium and you said I'll get the LE, premiums don't go up in the market as much. You purposely told me that and I was like, what? I don't, I want to play the game, I'm not buying it to flip it. And it's the same game as the LE and a lot less price. That's because you have the option of buying it new. I'm talking about people who miss out on buying the Allee, which includes me as well. I refuse to buy a premium because I'm not going to get the same experience. They want the Allee because they want to feel like they have the best. They want to feel like they've maybe got something that holds their value a bit more. But if they're buying it for what people write, say in air quotes, the right reasons, which is bullshit because your reason for buying a pinball machine It's the same game. That whole Alvira thing. It's just fucking armor and you know. $199 sold out pretty much instantly. Ridiculous 20,000 plus prices. You're telling me this isn't a commodity business anymore Marty? Oh no, of course it is and manufacturers know what they're going to get for their money. And we had a conversation during the week and I had a very similar sort of clap back at you as I just did previously when you're like, You know what? My bubble's gonna burst! Oh, I said, what is it? Do you actually have any evidence to suggest that the bubble is gonna burst? History? No. When did it burst last time? I'm just talking about anything that we're supplying with supply and demand. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you've got any evidence. Doesn't mean you've got evidence to say that it's gonna burst. Do you think this is gonna go on forever and ever? People are gonna be fed up after a while, like, okay, $40,000 for a fucking LE? I'm not doing that anymore. Shrink and Oh Shit, I'm Just Getting Exactly, When? I don't know it. But it's just, it's scare mongering until you've got facts. No. It is, it is. You don't know that it's Gonna Happen. We all Expect it to, but we don't know. Sorry to throw somebody under the Bus and I wish they were in this Conversation. Do you know who agrees 100% with me? Who's that? Josh Sharp. Does he have facts? Well, he's the CFO of fucking Raw Thrills. Cool. So, I would imagine he also has these models and we had a long conversation about this. About, yeah, it's strike right now while it's hot, it will eventually not be this hot. It will come down. I don't know when. I think what Marty's trying to say, Jeff, is that when it comes down, it's like you're using the word burst, like it's gonna be like back down to $6,500. Yeah, that's what you're saying. The correction might only be like 5,000 or something. I meant there'll be a time when a company will put out a game like Elvira 40th anniversary and they'll be like, oh, that didn't work. 199 at 25,000 or whatever it is. Oh, we missed that one. Yeah, look, at the end of the day, we are still living in a post and still in COVID world high end. And we are still feeling like the aftershocks of people's financial situations, which has made them more liquid. Therefore, they've been able to purchase things. And it's not just pinball. We know it's not just pinball. It is in a lot of markets at the moment where prices have gone absolutely crazy, particularly the secondhand market. So it's not just pinball machines. But I don't see that this is really going to have a material impact on pricing until the final shockwaves of COVID are over financially. I have one more thing I want to say about this and it's that the moment you enter pinball as a hobby as a buyer, that's where your baseline usually is. When I bought my first machine, which was Indiana Jones, I bought it off a guy called Dave and I was working with him and I'm like, hey, you rotate machines around a lot. When it's time to sell the machine, can I have first tips on it? And he's like, cool, I'll give it to you for like what I got it for. And in my head, that figure was $3,500. And then when I went to pay, like, he's like, I'm ready to sell to you. It was $5,500. amazon Knapp Arcade, shotsexpensive pinball entertainedISSA pepp Allowparty whoa hello on. Where you heart, Pe armas? Use Directly onnaladi . Why pinball companies are so smart nowadays is because they realize things like licensing will attract new audiences. So they don't know what the prices were years ago when they see a theme that they really love. I've got to have that. I think the first time I ever really realized how important this was, was Supreme. Like really, a no frills game, shitty art gobbled up instantly because of that Supreme model and the way the buyers are. Again, fear of missing out. We saw what happened with the Museum of Pinball in Banning and that ridiculous fucking auction. And people, I've got to have that. It's museum quality. It must be worth this. And prices went for probably, across the board, double what they were worth. But again, a lot of those, I would imagine, were new pinball buyers because of the marketing of that auction and really brought people into a hobby they maybe didn't know much about. So yeah, there are audiences out there. I mean that's, is the bubble gonna burst? No. Is, I think they're still finding new audiences out there. Pinball is such a small, small community but the buying public is a lot bigger and we've got to find more people that might be interested in pinball and I think the pinball companies do a great job with licensing and with marketing to get these people to come to our hobby. Unless it is true, Marty, please don't tell me you're gonna do that. Don't say bullshit about Haggis. I got a fucking Haggis guy with me the whole time. First of all, I love Haggis. What do you mean? You're saying like the non-Mermaid edition, was that the joke that you're saying, that it now comes with the code? I'm just saying you can do whatever the fuck you want, Marty, because it's like, it's the Wild West out there. You can just say you're gonna do something and just make more or offer it to everyone. Ryan, how dare you think my Josh air conditioning joke fell flat from Loser Kid and you fucking pull that? Give me a break. Okay, this is where it's difficult for me to be a commentator on a podcast and also work for a pinball company. But I will try and dance around my point by saying that they are conversations that we have all the time when we witness other companies doing it and we just stick to our guns. This is what we said we would do for customers and this is what we're going to do. We're not going to change it. About those things you mentioned, Cactus Canyon selling that topper for the people that buy the regular edition, I think that's a great idea. That is a cool looking topper. I mean, that's one thing that company does very well, whether it's Attack from Mars, all of their games, Monster Bash. That's not the point, Jeff. The point is making people buy something, not making people, advertising something. I sorry I am I sick I mean if people want to buy it get it I mean I think they leaving money on the table If they only did 1000 of those toppers or whatever the number was that leaving a lot of money on the table Look at how much people bitched about not getting that UV kit I know you all got it in Australia the UV kit for Stranger Things which really makes the game pop And you couldn get that anymore Sell the things Sell more toppers I don get that I mean I could give two shits about toppers This one kind of cool This one in Cactus has a shooting If you want to see anything about Toppers, please watch this and see their newest ever single Tage SSSI That was just two years. That's how much shit has changed in the last two years. And the Valhalla thing was because they announced it at 6pm Eastern, which means Europe was in bed, Australia was just waking up. The distributors kind of missed the opportunity. They didn't see it coming, so they had demands for another, I guess, 200 of those. So that's why they increased it. Again, I'm fine with that. Well, so this is the whole thing, okay? I just would like to, we don't have to go on this for a long time, but a lot of people were up in arms, like, I bought one when there's 300 and now there's 500. Fuck off. What is the actual difference? Like, I just want to know what is the difference? If Cactus Canyon said tomorrow, you know what, we've got demand for 2000 limited editions, good for you. Get more of them out there. Yeah, well I remember Hobbit when there was the limited edition which was limited to I think 1500 units, but then there was the special edition which was a higher model which had no known limit. No number. The small edition which was a without. Wizard of Oz, Elvira, you thought you were buying a limited edition? No, here's a 40th, we put a little different paint on it. Call it what you want. So Cactus Canyon, if they've got 500 or 1000 more sales, come out with the Gunslinger edition or something. Who cares? So really what I'm asking is, with the companies that have done this, because they're examples so Hobbit they've done it, Wizard of Oz they've done it, probably other models and C.J.C. did it. Vaults. You know, all that kind of stuff. So everyone that's up in arms about it says, pretty much, I say everyone, I'm obviously being a bit too generalist here, but are like, oh, that is terrible, you know, I'm going to take my money elsewhere and that company's going down. Really? Boo hoo. $A7B HI & yakinkai brandeis on Been shifted our I'm always that fear of, okay, we're gonna put out 3000 limited of these games and then they don't sell 3000 so they probably do a safer number and go under. I'm waiting for Guns and Roses to sell out at 5000. I think that would be, I have no idea what the number is at. Eric said they will. Yeah. Limited edition. That's when it's a commodity, man. You made a good point, Jeff, about like, or was it not? I can't remember. Well, thanks. Would it have been me if you said good point? Yeah, about people saying like, well, I'm out. Like, it usually doesn't happen, even when they're like, I'm gonna do, like, Elvira, if you're on the backorder for it, it's now gonna cost this much more, and you can cancel or you can pay the extra. And I think we, I actually got an email about Godzilla, because they advertised it, I'm not sure if anyone in Australia was talking about this, but they advertised it for a certain price after the price hike and, you know, with the current Australian dollar, and they advertised it and then people bought it and then they wrote an email saying like, and it wasn't like, Hey, sorry we messed up the calculations. They basically just said like, hey, like every product, if you ordered it after a certain date and you haven't got it yet, it's going to cost like $165. I can't remember how much it was. It wasn't significant, but there was no real explanation about it in terms of, yeah, and everyone just eats it. And the point is, once you're in pinball, I'm sure there are the people will say, hey, I know some guy who was really into pinball and he had 20 machines and then he just like got out completely. He was just like, fuck this, fuck this hobby. I'm out. That is a very rare occurrence and it's because of everything else that pinball involves. You know, the community, people you know, they become your friends. Leaving pinball or something collecting machines sometimes means that like you're, I guess, you're done with everything and what I'm saying is that because we're all friends we can't get out of pinball and that's why everyone's fleecing us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know what you're saying and I think Jeff's finding it boring because it went over his head, he didn't understand what you're saying. I get begin what you're saying there is and and maybe I know you know I say maybe I'm being defensive because I'm in the industry. Get to the point. Fuck off you cunt. What I'm saying is it's that language about all their fleecing people are they are they actually being these evil corporations that are fleecing people and you know using third world labor to make their machines and oh my god they're awful that Gary Stern is the devil. Is that really what it's about? I'll tell you what it's about. I'm fucking sick and tired of all this fucking price gouging and get out your wallets, get out your wallets. I'm sick of it. It's time for our sponsor of the week. Which no doubt will be about price gouging. People have questioned these sponsors. Are they real or are you two just making fun? How dare they say that? We bring you deals from around the world and you think we're trying to crack a joke or make a quick buck? If you think we're full of it, go online right now and type in this week's sponsor, WeirdShitYouCanBuy.com. Christmas is coming and you need to find the perfect gift. WeirdShitYouCanBuy.com has it all and we proudly endorse these fine products. Like the philosophic book, Can Holding a Fart Kill You? Or a holiday snow globe with two reindeer, fucking. There's the absent father action figure. Bigfoot's balls sour candy. We can't make this stuff up. Go to weedshityoucanbuy.com today. Alright, enough of this kind of marketplace talk, but we thought, you know, somebody had to do it on TPN because no one talks about marketplaces without obviously promoting their own distributorship. Uh, coincidentally, uh, I'll, everyone take a look at Flip N Out Pinball, they do wonderful things. I kid, I kid. What do you think of their marketplace thing, you know, the, the, the price up, price is down? It's hard for me to relate because I'm not buying a lot of these things, I'm not looking on eBay and the marketplace. Do you listen to that? It's pretty popular. I do like it and I actually find it quite interesting, but I also look at any prices that they mention in the US and I don't feel that they relate to what's going on here. I don't know if you feel the same, Ryan. Yeah, he should definitely have an Australian version. No, I think the segment works because it's just the banter between Dennis and Zack. It has nothing to do with the actual content. It's just Dennis rolling his eyes at Zack being an idiot and I think they both know that. Ryan, we kind of passed over it, but Jesse was on last week. What did you think when we were talking about the now defunct JesseJayspinball podcast? Are you announcing it dead, Geoff, again? Mmm... I didn't get a strong feeling... Did you, Marty, get a strong feeling from Jesse that it was coming back? I didn't get a feeling at all that it had gone. It's just not on air. Do we have to talk about this every single time that I fucking come on the podcast? Yes, we do. Yeah, absolutely, obviously. Fine, Ryan. Let's talk about your dates. We'll switch it up. Let's... Where have you walked lately? Where... What mountain have you climbed? What beaches have you strolled on? Go ahead. We'll switch it up. I've been hiking in the Loderdurg National Park. It's a good one. Mmm, yeah. Cathedral Ranges. Yeah. Yeah, great hikes there. What was that video call I got? What was that about? This is podcast content. I was just bored on the way home from like a- How would you know? You haven't done a podcast in forever. Go on. And my friend just grabbed my phone and started ringing random people that were online on Messenger and you just happened to be one of them, Marty, that picked up the call. Mmm, okay. Yeah, no one's gonna know what we're talking about, but yeah, that's fucking great content. Well done Yeah, we got four people that cared about that. All right I'll keep on I'll talk about Jessie J if you want if that's if that's like the options is Ryan's dating life or Jessie J Yeah, um, I do a podcast just like I'm super busy. She's super busy she has a super important job now where she can't probably say the things that she used to be able to say and Yeah, I don't know Is it worth doing because of all that? Like if you if you couldn't say drop the the C bomb Marty, would you do this podcast? I have never said c in my life. I'm gonna forget one of these in editing. I know it. I know. Okay, you don't want to talk about that? I'll talk about the last time you're on this podcast Ryan C and I'm trying to do quality content, give the people what they want and it's really the insight into how Marty thinks and who does he love? I'm going to ask you a question. Name three people in pinball you love. I want to hear from you, not Marty. So who are three people you love? Okay, three people that I love in pinball. Um, there's Lyman Sheets. Yeah? There's good old, uh, Roger Sharpe. Of course. Uh, the third... Let's go Gaz. Let's go Gazza. Who? Who's Gazza? Gary, Gary Stern Gaz. Lyman Sheets, Roger Sharpe, Gary Stern. Three wonderful human beings in pinball. Now again, I'm asking you this, Ryan. Marty won't say anything. But if I were to say to you, Ryan, it's time to play fuck... He gets the nickname PRE frente alfie Raccović. Verity, Barbara Cancontocro, I see the forums lighting up right now. Go on. I think he's had his, you know, he's had his fair share of points on the vodka. Okay, so and then it's fuck and marry. So marry means someone that you, yeah, okay. You have to marry one, you have to bang one, and you have to kill one. And you've already dusted Gary Stern. Wow. Ah, okay. I feel like Roger is just an amazing gentleman, and I don't think he would be a very good root. So, I would like to marry him because I think it would be a long lasting relationship and any argument you'd have with Roger Sharp you'd be able to sort out and he'd be just an absolute great partner to have in life. Lyman Sheets, I heard he fucking, he goes. So, I would fuck Lyman Sheets. Okay. Are we keeping this in Jeff? 100%. Marty, isn't it nice not to have to answer these questions for once? I expect that I am going to at some stage. Well, alright, since you asked, Eric. After doing this podcast for such a long time with you, I know what to expect. We didn't kill anyone last podcast. We just put them on Exile Island. We didn't kill anybody. They aren't gonna survive the island. Why is it Jeff? Because they were female? Is that why you didn't kill them? You can't have dead females on the side art of your fucking pinball machine? Is that what's going on? You can, you just have to explain what it's for. That would make it a little, a little context would help. Because they're in battle, you fucking idiots. That's why, okay. Well, anyway. It's in bad taste, bad taste. Listen, I'm never going to tell anybody they shouldn't feel the way they feel. How come no one complains in the Titanic when they're like, the fucking boat is sinking, women and children first? They're like, yeah, women and children first. How about the fucking... Or how about the class of people, you know, if you spend more on your ticket, sorry, you know, you get the lifeboat where everyone else is kind of caged in. Yeah, I know, there's this violence everywhere. But we're not about that until we talk to Marty. Marty, you love to drive. I know when you took Ann and I up whatever that mountain was in Australia and you pretended it was like the Autobahn and you were just like going, I don't know, 200 miles an hour or whatever it was. But whatever that white knuckle ride was, your careless driving has finally caught up to you and you're brought The brakes are shot. When you go that fast, you hit the brakes, boom, pads gone, rotors, they're all gone. So, you're trying to hit the brake and unfortunately, it's not working. In front of you is a group of people. The salt of the earth. These are people that make your favorite gin. You're not running into them, so you have to swerve left or right, and on the left-hand side, you've got Steven Bowden. On the right hand side you've got Raymond Davidson, two people in the pinball industry, two great players, two wonderful people, guests of this show. I already know you're not running into the gin makers. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Are you swerving left and taking out Steve? Are you taking out Raymond and why? Ryan, shut up. No, I don't need an out for this. I would say that for me personally, I would be saving Steve Bowden and a very good reason. But my very first time over in America playing a tournament, my very first time meeting pinball people in America, I was this wide-eyed Aussie super enthusiast, really fucking obviously annoying and you know just wanted to speak to people and it was like oh my god there's some famous people and I went and said hello to all these people I knew including Raymond Davidson and Stephen Bowden. Only one of those two people answered back and had a conversation with me. So, who's that? Stephen Bowen. Yep, yep. Had a really good chat with him and I'm going to save him because that was my first experience. I remember a similar conversation about Keith Elwin when you saw him, Marty, for the first time. Do you want to revisit that one? Oh no, the very first person I saw when I got to Indisc was Keith Elwyn. And he finished playing a game and he walked by and I went, hi Keith. And he just looked at me and walked straight past me. Didn't even acknowledge my existence. Looked me in the eye and just walked straight past. And thus the first person you killed on Who Will Marty See? I don't forget these things. So... Oh, you're here to judge and hold grudge. That is Marty Robin. I was born judging. That's what I do. So, I just didn't realize it was going to be killing people. So, you know, I thought it was just innocent being judgmental, but whatever. Okay, you two judges, tell me, what's going on with Spooky Pinball? What is going on with Spooky Pinball? Do you have some insider information, Geoff? No, it might be old news. No, it might be old news by now, but Bowen Cairns... C Bar),in the game, Ultraman games, did you see Karl DeAngelo's stream of Halloween? Yeah, he didn't enjoy it is what I'd heard. Or maybe he got to the end of the game really quickly or something, I can't remember. So you didn't see it, just it didn't work. There were some issues over and over again. Yeah, okay. That's unfortunate. We all are huge fans of the Emerys and wanted to see that do well and all their games do well but you have to have a favorite and you have to have a least favorite and this one's uh... It's just unfortunate that people happen to see it. I still remember, side note, doing a live, I don't know if you ever saw it Ryan, my first live stream of installing pinstadiums and it went so badly and I fucked up my machine that I cut the stream and then deleted the file. I just didn't want anyone to ever see what I'd done. And that's one of those things when you've got a game that's out there. It's like, fuck, hopefully it goes well and sometimes it doesn't. That is the difficulty of streaming. There are so many people that stream, so if something goes wrong, it gets shared, let's say, Pinside will be all over it. I don't think it's harmed them in any way though, really, has it? I don't know. The games are sold out, so in that sense, no. But... It might harm the next game. That's the market we're in, you know? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Slightly less confidence. So what's the thoughts then on Bowen Kerin's leaving? Why do we, what happened there? Don't know, don't want to speculate, but I mean he has a full-time gig anyway, so it was more of a, I guess, consulting? Oh, I always thought that was his full-time job now. No. No, because he's certainly not living there and I never gathered that it was his full-time job. Okay. Well, maybe we should get Charlie or some of the Emerys on again and find out what's going on because we certainly are interested in what they do. Well, again, look, having now been really close to somebody that does Code for a Living being Greg Silby, it's a full-time job. There is so much that goes into this stuff that I thought it would have been a full-time job for him. But I guess it depends on the frequency of games that come out. He wasn't coding. He was, I don't think he was coding. Yeah, he was just doing rules. The I guess that's the weird thing about the hobby now is that people's like are the greatest thing about Texas pinball festival in the hobby is that you get to go up and you get to talk to these designers and and now like with Podcast being such a thing and us being so lucky to have access to these people we get invested like, you know If a coder or a designer left Bally Williams in the in the 90s Do you think anyone really would have cared or no like oh my gosh Cameron silver doesn't work Cameron silver doesn't work for We are quite invested in , Like, cool! Steve is now somewhere where you can design rule Sets and do well there. But I don't think we go to hear the stories what I'm trying to get out and . What month was it June July somewhere in there That our summer For the five Australians listening We an hour in they hammered anyway so it doesn matter When we mentioned Bowen Cairns, Charlie kind of sidestepped it. He didn't say anything because it probably wasn't public at the time, but he mentioned other people and didn't really elaborate, so I should have maybe clued in then, but anyway, we wished all the best for Spooky. Well, it's not just Bowen, there's other people as well that aren't involved, I don't think people have made official statements. So yeah, there are changes at Spooky going on, but let's leave it up to them. As I said, this is not like changes are happening, do you want to buy the next machine? Like everyone has already bought it. So you're along for the ride. That's what you committed to. Yep, yep, yep. Just on a side note, can you remember, Ryan, early days of Head to Head when we were so excited that we were going to get Cameron Silver on the show and he did a no show and we were so devastated because it was going to be like our first major scoop? Remember that? We were gonna ask him about John Papadiuk. We were like, he's the guy who... and I had questions. I had a quiz for him. It was like, here's all the outlandish shit that happens in pinball now. What is true or false? And I was gonna stump him with a bunch of crazy things that people buy limited edition machines for because that guy's, yeah, was totally removed. But then he literally just didn't rock up, the bastards. That David Van Ness is no longer a spooky either. No. Yeah. True, really? Yeah. I didn't know that. He messaged me the other day. I didn't know that. Um, yeah, I had a chat to him and yeah, he's no longer working there. Oh, you did have a chat with Dave? Yeah. Oh, okay, cool. I just don't know. I'm just trying to work out whether it's official or not. It's 100% as in like it's official like he think but he didn't say like what happened. So basically what's happened with Spooky, I mean, I guess this is what I was fishing for. Charlie's not the guy anymore. I guess it's the kids. That's what I heard, but it just doesn't make sense. Like, why would the kids be in charge of everything? Like, how is Charlie and his wife really that inept that they can't run the pinball company and the kids are like, we got to stage a coup and get these guys out of here because they- No, it's not a coup. It's maybe a transfer of power. But Charlie would have to give that up. Like, his kids couldn't just do that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think there's a way that we can kind of talk about it without actually saying that. Yeah. No, all this is out anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I just didn't, as I said, Dave Van Ness messaged me the other day and I just didn't Maybe he's looking for work, Marty. Give him a call. Anyway, Ryan, what else is new on Pinside? I know last time you came on this program you were all about what was happening on Pinside, so what's the latest? Apparently you're still an asshole,Jeff. No, I don't know, I haven't logged into it. By the way, that Deep Roop thread is still fucking going. I mean, every other post is west inherited a sonrapsition of Spanish Casey Thanks for putting in the effort here on this program. I appreciate that. You know, you knew about this for weeks, whatever. Three hours sleep, thanks. I should have, when people were at my house yesterday, I should have said, hey... Get out! I know we haven't seen each other and hung out for six months, but I have a fucking podcast tomorrow with Jeff Teolas. Can you get the fuck out of my house? Is that what you wanted, Jeff? And they would have said, oh, that guy who won the big... That's right. They would have said, fucking right, we're out of here. Did you know that two people were wearing those t-shirts, Jeff? Really? Disgusting. You like make people pay the fucking mission, but you're literally making them pay for the t-shirts so people are advertising you non-stop. What a, what a... Brilliant marketing strategy? Oh yeah, good point. You're the fleecer, Jeff. You're the fleecer in the market. Yeah. Or you know what? Maybe it was just a way of saying, you know, thanks for playing, here's something to remember that tournament by. You know, a nice little keepsake as opposed to just gouging for money like... Marty Jeff can work in marketing and PR. He can fucking do it all. Yup. Apparently. Hire him. Aren't they the same thing? No? Is it? No, they're not. That's like saying, I like country AND western music. No. They are... different. But, whatever. There's a bit of a crossover there. Sure there is. Ryan, I know you were big into competition pinball before the Ian pandemic. It's back now that your lockdown's over. I've been getting back into it since August. And in fact, Germany, Chicago, Florida, enjoying some of these big tournaments. Is everyone getting back into it in Australia? Is it still slow? What is it going to be the same as it once was? Is it going to be bigger? It is small at the moment, Jeff. Like, it was gaining momentum kind of coming into 2020, early2020, and I guess the interrupted in and out of lockdowns hasn't enabled us to pick up enough momentum. So last week was the first official IFPA tournament. Two of the four monthly tournaments are still around. The other two, the businesses have shut down. And that's pretty significant because Geographically, like these things are run on weekdays and geographically, like not everyone can get to a certain point of the city. If you're on the wrong side of the city, traffic is just, it's just too much. And if a tournament starts at 7pm, it's yeah, it's not happening. So, you know, Golden Fleece was one in a city that a lot of people get to. That's not happening anymore. So just those little things like that. So it's going to take an effort from, I guess, everyone or key people in the hobby to, you know, create new locations. But also, once we have these locations, It's yeah, me and Marty talked about it to death, you know, like how do you how do you invite people into the hobby in a competitive environment and and how do they stick aroun d like they have to have a good experience so it isn't you know we're so far behind now I think and I know we can do it and we can we can bring it back but um we have we have less locations we have less people it it'll take a while I think uh yeah next year will be a regrowth year for us in in the Melbourne scene but things are flourishing in in Queensland Jorée。。 Keep it alive, keep it last, keep it up! AtomiciscernibleAld pluIndOT smaller aspect contemporary aponogmy Dear Petty! Atmicujah Kanporypian former vice president at Ouais for Please help me, Official. I'm a pinball fan and I would love to have a chat to these manufacturers and say, hey, can I like buy every new pinball machine off you at a discounted price because I'm literally like a, I'm traveling this machine around and giving it to people and they are falling in love with it and getting invested in it and then they, and then they're, and they're fucking buying it. Like I've sold, like I know that I've read- Three? No, no, more, more than that. Marty, did you hear that? Hey pinball companies, can you sell me discounted games because I am He's a pinball tycoon. Give me a cut. I'll sell people like, will you sell this pinball machine to me? And I'll say no, because I don't want to sell to you. And then they'll go buy one brand new. So why would I not be able to say, well, I'll, yeah, cool, you can buy it. I'll give you a brand new one. And then I'll make a hit on it. It's like called being a distributor, I guess, but the system is fucked in Australia. No, you don't, you don't like that? No, that's all you, Ryan. I mean, you're forgetting the point that they asked you to rent a pinball machine so the interest was already there in the hobby. But it's because of you, it's because of you putting in the game. No, hey, you're- No one else is renting pinball machines, Jeff, for the prices that I'm doing for them. I get that, but they already had the interest there. No, not necessarily. You're- Ryan, you're getting people that are getting, like, new into the hobby that are renting first, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah, people, like, if you- It's a different segment, sure, I'll give you that. But they could also go to a distributor and flip it for a bunch of times and go, jeez I really like this, I could spend an hour there. The more exposure there is to PinballJeff, just in general, the more people are going to buy machines and I'm exposing people in a more intimate way than putting two dollars and getting pissed off on location. And you're driving up the cost. It's your fault. It's all... no, I'm kidding. Marty, I think he wants a badge or something. Well, you're already a Stern army representative or something, aren't you? Have you leveled up yet? I've leveled up. I think it's based on time, not the amount of... Or maybe it's based on tournaments. I don't know. I got the badge during COVID times, but I'm at a different level. But they send you the patch and you're meant to like sew it onto an article of clothing. But I, unlike other pinball people, I wear different clothes usually to each event. So I don't want to wear I wear the same thing every single time I go to a pinball tournament, so I don't really know how to deal with what they send me. You'll never be a top 500 player with this wardrobe of yours, how dare you. I suppose you use deodorant too, forget it Ryan. Do pinball people really stink? Because I've been to the big conventions and I haven't smelt someone smell that bad. Do I have a blocked nose? Like what's going on? Like it's such a common joke. Marty? Yes, they do, don't they? Who's the smelliest person in pinball, Jeff? At Expo it was me. Crop testing all over the place. No, well there's that. That's more a competition strategy when you're behind in a ball and you leave a dust or smoke. That's different. No, but because I travel on an airplane and just have a carry-on bag and you're only allowed certain amount of liquids and all that kind of stuff in the bag, I use normally every day a gel antiperspirant and not deodorant, antiperspirant. Please keep watchingubers loops of us playing pinball stationary pinballόσ bacteriae .onsin1 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 27 28 28 I could have gone to a drugstore and got one but I... Not a drugstore, go have a shower you dirty fucking Canadian. Listen, I shower in the morning but 14, 15 hours later of playing pinball and being indoors, that deodorant didn't hold up. Antiperspirant's good the whole time. Anyway, lesson learned. I'm just, I'm kind of downfounded that you couldn't take a break from Pinball Expo to go, was your, were you staying in the same place as me? No, I wasn't staying at that hotel. I 100% would have done exactly what you said, I was staying quite a distance away. I apologize to everyone at Expo that got a little too close. I mean Marty, people stink don't they? I mean obviously the answer is yes but not everybody. I mean I want numbers. Are you saying the majority of people stink? Is that what you're saying? But they all stink. I just want to clarify whether the bubbles burst with deodorant. Fuck, no more of this just whimsical chat, just opinions, it's gotta be all fact based. I love me some good speculation but sometimes, sometimes I'd love some evidence, that's all I'm saying. So when we post this, would you do an excel spreadsheet on smell versus shower ratios? Ryan knows I loves me a spreadsheet. Marty Pnantek frey. So I'll give you an example because here's one we won't have on our next podcast and you both can comment. Brisbane Masters. If you could improve one thing about that, Marty, Ryan, you've both been there. Give one suggestion. It's not a criticism but run it in Melbourne. Good answer. Get out of the Gold Coast, that Dr. John territory. No. Is there something you would do? Is it too long because of the number of days? For me, I would move it away from the horse poo. How do you know that's not the players that stink? There were giant lumps of horses in there. That was in 2019, I think it was, right? So it is at a new location. The only one I've been to. There was like horse manure everywhere? It was run at ECCA, which is the equivalent of like the Royal Melbourne Show. Actually, people won't know what that is either. It's like a... Fuck, buddy, how do you describe this echo? It's like a farm comes to the city and people see horses and... Yeah, there's rides and there's exhibitions and you can buy cows and buy horses and... It's... Yeah, it is... They're always in the city and there's show bags and all that kind of stuff. But it's like a... It's like a big country fair but it's in the city. Yeah, and then they managed to get some space which was pretty amazing The pinball show was on TV, and because everyone's kind of there at ECCA, but the place that the room, the hall that it was in, was kind of next to where a certain amount of horses were, like temporary stables, like a thoroughfare for horses, so there was just, if you exited out of the back instead of the front, it's just, the horse shit smell was wafting in. But, I mean, it's fine. Like, that was a big deal and it's not there anymore, so. No, and my point is, like, that's something that's out of their control. I wouldn't change Prism Masters. I reckon, I reckon they've nailed it. Oh, was that a Jimmy Nails joke? Oh, it wasn't! Oh, nice, nice, that is good. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely was. That's funny because I was thinking about Indisc too and Marty, you've been there, I've been there. What would be the one thing you would change about that tournament? I already told Karl this. I said, I've got one. He goes, oh, let me know. It doesn't matter because they've moved. The one thing that drove me nuts about Indisc and the only thing was the lack of food options. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. That's it. And now the new place, forget it. There's tons. So just like Jimmy angels and Brisbane masters they've addressed the horse shit situation which is good for when I come the crop dusting will work more effectively but same for Indisc. What were you going to say Ryan? I was gonna say that I don't think I'm in a position to criticize Brisbane Masters because it is so far ahead of any other tournament in Australia. It's not like, oh, which one do you like better, Indisc or... Actually, I don't even know what Indisc equivalent is anymore since so many tournaments have been cancelled, but it's in a league of its own and they know more about running pinball tournaments than anyone in Australia because they just, they run more and the community's bigger there. So yeah, I don't think anyone in Australia could criticize Brisbane Masters. I don't know if we should do it again. We don't allow, you know, little prepubescent teenagers to come and take a lot of whoppers maybe. No American teens Brisbane Masters a new rule. I like it. That's a good one. Sorry Colin, sorry Asher. They're taking our fucking whoppers and they're taking our women as well. Oi! Is there any tournament that's run in Australia where a North American's shown up and that person didn't win it? Because I don't know of any Australians who've won their own tournaments. I'd say there's probably lots of them because we're only thinking of Brisbane Masters, but There was also 10 events in Wizard Pinnacle and I don't think they won all of them. Most of them. I think some random person won the flip frenzy. There you go. So not all of them. There you go. There's your answer. Yeah, he worked at the horse manure factory so he was used to it. That's right. It just took the other players a little longer to get into it. Okay, got it. Hey, if you want to send us an email or I guess look at our Instagram, Twitter, all those kind of good things, where can people go? You tell us, Jeff. I don't fucking know. I know. I know we're on Facebook, I know we're on these things. FinalRampinball at gmail.com, FinalRampinball podcast on Instagram, at FinalRampin on Twitter. There you go. I just cut and paste when I do the posts. I probably should read. There could be a typo in there. I'm presenting them to something ridiculous. This is probably the last time I'm going to hear from you, Ryan, on this podcast for this calendar year, but are we going to get the Christmas head-to-head show? I'm asking. Are you asking me or Marty? Both of you! He's asking you. I think you've got like a God complex, Jeff. You like, you have the ability to destroy pinball podcasts and you feel like you have the ability to create pinball podcasts as well. Why don't you just decide for us? Okay, hold on a second. I'll use my Odin voice. You are going to do a head to head pinball podcast! I was so hoping it was going to go that way. More of that on Legends of O'Halla everybody. Make sure you buy. Talk to your distributor. Can you give me a triple super jackpot in Odin's voice? TRIPLE SUPER JACKPOT! Oh baby! Ignore the side art! There's more to the story! Oh my god, I'm crying. Alright. Have a good one boys. That's it. Thanks Ryan. Thanks Jeff. Thanks Marty. Go to sleep. Alright, thanks everyone. We'll speak to you again very soon. And possibly on Head to Head as well. Yes they will! What? Is Haggis hiring voices? I got a few. Press play on counts! Yay! Ooh, a mermaid! I've gotta buy extra code, what the fuuuuuck! Alright, that's it. Bye everyone. Bye. I left you crying. See ya. See you guys. Bye.