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Ep 42: The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 32m·analyzed·Sep 2, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

LoserKid hosts discuss TMNT Premium gameplay and speculate on upcoming Stern Avengers pinball announcement.

Summary

LoserKid Pinball Podcast hosts Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss their new Stern Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium pinball machine, sharing gameplay impressions and difficulty assessment. They also analyze a Stern teaser featuring the Marvel Avengers logo with "assembling soon" messaging, speculating that a new Avengers-themed pinball machine is in development. The episode includes shout-outs to industry partners and other pinball podcasts.

Key Claims

  • Stern released a teaser featuring the Marvel Avengers logo with 'assembling soon' messaging, implying an Avengers pinball machine is coming

    high confidence · Josh Roop and Scott Larson analyzing the teaser on the podcast

  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball is selling through the secondary market, with LE prices holding steady while other titles trend downward

    medium confidence · Discussion referencing The Pinball Show's analysis of secondary market trends

  • Keith Elwin-designed games (Jurassic Park, Iron Maiden) hold their LE prices better than other designers' titles

    medium confidence · Scott Larson's observation about secondary market pricing patterns

  • The original Avengers pinball machine by Stern is regarded as a miss and is one of the cheaper modern Stern machines on the secondary market

    high confidence · Josh Roop's assessment: 'I wouldn't consider it a flop, but I would consider it a miss'

  • TMNT pinball has a co-op mode and single-player mode with varying difficulty depending on number of balls in play

    high confidence · Scott Larson describing gameplay mechanics and difficulty of co-op vs single-player

Notable Quotes

  • “42 the answer to life the universe and everything”

    Josh Roop @ Opening segment — Explains the episode title reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  • “I'm still getting used to it. I've only had it for about a week.”

    Scott Larson @ Mid-episode — Establishes Scott's limited experience with TMNT Premium, qualifying his gameplay impressions

  • “I think that it has the potential of possibly making me maybe consider selling Tron.”

    Scott Larson @ Mid-episode — Indicates TMNT Premium is a strong addition to his collection, potentially displacing Tron

  • “The LE prices, the only ones that seem to be locked in and not budging are Keith Elwin's games.”

    Scott Larson @ Mid-episode — Identifies Keith Elwin as having designed games with stronger secondary market value

  • “I didn't think they were going to go back to that well.”

    Josh Roop @ Stern teaser discussion — Expresses surprise that Stern is revisiting the Avengers theme after the previous game's lukewarm reception

  • “I don't know anybody who plays Avengers and says i love that game.”

    Josh Roop @ Avengers discussion — Reinforces the negative community perception of the original Avengers pinball machine

  • “It's a brutal, but fun. And you know what? Ironman it actually works out perfectly in my Ironman spot because Ironman was the same.”

    Scott Larson @ TMNT difficulty assessment — Contextualizes TMNT's difficulty within his collection strategy and compares it favorably to other challenging games

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MinneypersonNicolepersonBrad HunterpersonBrian AllenpersonChristopher FranchipersonBruce NightingalepersonJeff Patterson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball Inc. released a teaser featuring Marvel Avengers logo with 'assembling soon' messaging, strongly implying an upcoming Avengers-themed pinball machine

    high · Hosts describe the teaser: 'teaser comes out and it's basically the Marvel intro, how it has that card flip thing... However, this time it went to Stern Pinball Inc. logo. And then it said, "assembling soon."'

  • ?

    product_concern: TMNT pinball received secondary market pressure due to perceived brutality, though hosts dispute this as justified

    medium · Josh references The Pinball Show: 'They talked about trending down Turtles because people are selling them based off the brutality.'

  • $

    market_signal: LE machines show mixed secondary market behavior: Keith Elwin-designed games hold value, but other LEs trend downward with collectors willing to take $500-1000 losses for new releases

    high · Scott: 'The LE prices, the only ones that seem to be locked in and not budging are Keith Elwin's games... they seem to be okay with taking a loss of 500 700 even a thousand dollars'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Keith Elwin's game design reputation is elevated; his titles command stronger secondary market value retention compared to other contemporary designers

    medium · Scott identifies Elwin's Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden as exceptions to LE price decline trend

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball podcast community is collaborative and interconnected with hosts regularly listening to and cross-promoting each other's shows, though market is consolidating with some shows declining

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.277

0:00
hey thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 42 with me my co-captain scott larson and i love the number 42 i don't know if anyone else will get this reference out there i know scott got it but 42 the answer to life the universe and everything in it have you seen that Have you seen the movie? You read the books, Scott? You know, I've only seen the movie. OK, first, you have to say what it is. It's the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Yes. And I watched the movie and they did a fantastic job in it. You know, it had The Hobbit and Watson in it. Yes. So it was it was a really well done movie, but certainly very quirky humor. So, yes, if you like that British humor, kind of the Monty Python, it's right up your alley. You got to check it out. Fantastic movie. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Also, if you haven't checked it out, someone I can't remember his name. He's from Australia, but he actually made a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy pinball machine. And it's it's wonderful. It's almost a pin 2000 style. Love it. So that'd be interesting. I never saw that one. You'll have to go online and check it out. It's really, really cool. So let's introduce our friends of the podcast really quick. All right. First off, and we will circle back to this guy later, Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball. If you're looking for a new pinball product, contact them. Zach and Nicole are known for getting people what they want. And they have hooked me up with some extra things for my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Jurassic Park. I just got the Amber shooting rod, and I also bought a shaker, and they pit art blades for the premium. So I am looking forward to installing those soon. Who else do we have, Josh? We have Brad Hunter with Lit Frames. And actually, Brad Hunter poses a question to us, and I'm going to throw it to a poll on our webpage. If you had to choose between these three pinball machines, which one would you choose? These are all 90s Williams ballets. We've got, first off, Demolition Man. Second is World Cup Soccer 94. And third is NBA Fast Break. So we're going to throw that to a poll online because Brad wants to know which one you'd go with. And if you leave in the comments why you'd go with that one, that would be even more appreciated. Okay, so are you going to put up a Facebook poll or what are you doing? Yes, I'll do a Facebook poll and we'll go from there. But that's courtesy of Brad Hunter with Lit Frames. So when you're doing that poll, think of Brad Hunter. Go check out his Lit Frames at litframes.com.
person
Keith Elwinperson
Lauren Grayperson
LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
Stern Pinball Inc.company
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
Avengersgame
The Super Awesome Pinball Showorganization
Slam Tiltorganization
This Week In Pinballorganization
The Pinball Showorganization
Backbox Pinball Podcastorganization
Jurassic Parkgame
Iron Maidengame

high · Josh: 'when we started this, we always joked there's so many pinball podcasts in the arena, and it's kind of whittled down... it seems like a lot of the podcasts are kind of going by the wayside'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern designer Keith Elwin's approach to game difficulty is viewed as successfully balancing brutality with fun, contrasting with the Munsters game which was designed to be more accessible

    medium · Scott contrasts TMNT/Iron Man designer approach with Munsters: 'they had people complaining on their Munsters project that it was too easy... that demographic is going to want a slightly easier game'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stern is pursuing Marvel IP but may use comic book versions rather than movie-specific versions to reduce licensing complexity and character count

    medium · Josh discusses avoiding movie-specific licensing: 'if you're going to do the comic book version, you probably going to do Infinity Gauntlet' to avoid the 'licensing nightmare' of multiple characters

  • ?

    product_launch: Premium TMNT aftermarket parts (Amber shooting rod, shaker, pit art blades) are available through Flippin' Out Pinball

    high · Josh: 'they have hooked me up with some extra things for my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TMNT) and Jurassic Park. I just got the Amber shooting rod, and I also bought a shaker'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: TMNT Premium is perceived as difficult but fun, with specific challenge shots (center ramp, raptor tower analogs) that reward precision but frustrate newer players

    high · Scott: 'That center ramp shot is hard because it's going so fast... I need to be better because I have the same issue with Jurassic Park where you have the raptor tower i i have such a hard time hitting that shot'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community speculation about new Stern Avengers machine's potential title; rumors include Infinity Quest and Infinity Gauntlet, with hosts favoring Infinity Gauntlet or Infinity War

    low · Josh references Kaneda's Pinball Podcast claim about Infinity Quest but disputes it: 'I don't think it is... if you're going to title a game Infinity Quest, I can't think of a worse title'

  • ?

    product_strategy: TMNT Pro is positioned as fully functional alternative to Premium, similar to Metallica, though Premium includes enhanced toppers and illuminated Krang figure

    high · Scott: 'if you were looking at buying a Turtles and wanted to get the Pro, I think you would be 100 percent made whole just like Metallica'

    • 2:57
    Also, Brian Allen. Go and check him out. I have two of his alternative translates. These things are officially licensed. They're his interpretations on an already excellent back glass. But if you're looking for a way of spicing up your translate action, then I picked up the Medieval Madness one, which is going to be great because I just got the email that it's time for me to upgrade to my Royal Edition. And so I'm going to be buying the the topper and the light show and the extended thing. So that will look amazing underneath the new trans light. Heck, yes. Also, I just want to send a shout out to many of the shows that we've interacted with. And they've they've mentioned us. So we listen to them, too. also Zach and Dennis on the TPN they release their show every Monday and they're always fun to listen to we also have go ahead Josh list off a few well the other one that we need to talk about is This Week in Pinball with Jeff Patterson the gentleman is fantastic on his articles and if you want some of the know what's going on in the pinball world he's definitely the man to do it the other one that we want to throw out our condolences to is Bruce Nightingale and his wife if you didn't listen to this the super awesome pinball show bruce did talk about it and how covid has affected their bar the silver ball saloon and they did end up having to shut that down but our hearts go out to you it sounds like you weren't too heartbroken but well i i think they felt like they they were a casualty of the times they they didn't feel like they did anything wrong which i i totally agree with and as um bruce is also part of the slam tilt podcast also another excellent podcast also the super awesome pinball show friends of the show I just got a package from Christopher Franchi and I ordered some art from him so he was able to send that out so that's also great I was going to say there's a couple others too it's funny because I listen to everyone else and like the poor man's pinball podcast talked about us Tim Lee was on one of their most recent episodes fan of the show awesome dude great interview also Martin and Jeff with the final round pinball podcast. If you're not checking them out, do it. I mean, it's kind of weird because, you know, when we started this, we always joked there's so many pinball podcasts in the arena, and it's kind of whittled down. TPN has brought some more into the arena, but it seems like a lot of the podcasts are kind of going by the wayside. Well, I think they seem like they're consolidating a little bit. A lot of them tend to be, I guess, a similar format. It's just like you and I are just talking to friends that would normally have a conversation on the phone or in person about pinball and just basically recording that. So it's been great. But, yeah, and check out the pinball network. We are obviously just doing our own thing, but we encourage people to go and check out their their wide range of pinball podcasts because there's always a good thing to check out.
    6:02
    Yeah, seriously, it's it's been fun because we've been able to interact a lot. Also, you can't forget Mrs. Penn. She is absolutely hilarious. Just put the earmuffs on the kids.
    6:15
    Well, if you want one, Lauren Gray is fantastic with the Backbox Pinball podcast as well. Absolutely. So all friends of the podcast. It's funny because we kind of said we all have kind of a group chat. We just chit chat back and forth through these podcast people. They're all fantastic people. honestly I can't point at one person in the hobby and say that they're not I mean they all do great they have their own lane that they're driving in and they're all doing fantastic at doing it so yeah we're all different and I love it I mean that's why I have a hard time with the twippy sometimes because the twippies you're trying to mark a number one but everyone's so diverse and different I mean you listen to us and yeah we're two guys bsing but then there's poor man's pinball podcast and yeah they're shooting the breeze as well but two entirely different shows if you put us right next to each other so yeah and there are even shows that like buffalo pinball love listening to those guys uh i um every time i listen to nick he's hilarious because he says a lot of the things i'm thinking but i just don't i don't have the stones to actually say him on record uh but they basically just do a podcast and they record it and send it out so that that's just a different way of consuming things. Well, we need to have those guys on too. I've talked to Kevin and Nick a little bit. Yeah, and really, when I customized my Tron, I saw their Tron and I said, okay, what'd you guys do? And so Kevin sent me a huge list of everything that he had on his Tron. So that's really where, and of course I found other things that I decided to just spend a ridiculous amount of money customizing a game. yeah so that's pretty much it well and there's tons out there please if you feel like there's no one speaking to you guess what there is someone out there just so just keep looking and you will find your own little group I agree so Scott you got to tell me you got your premium in I saw the pictures turtles what are you what's your impressions what are you thinking of it you know it's it's a tough game I'm it is a lot of fun, though. I still have that. Want to play one more? That center ramp shot is hard because it's going so fast. There are two ways to hit the shot. You can either hit the right ramp and it comes and dumps around and screams past the upper flipper or there's a way of shooting it from the right flipper and it goes up to a stand-up post, hits that, and then comes back down so you can hit that. um it's it you know i i need to be better because i have the same issue with uh jurassic park where you have the raptor tower i i have such a hard time hitting that shot because it it requires such precision when i hit it it feels amazing but man that is hard um i am loving the co-op mode and I will be blunt I am I can't tell you how many times I am playing the co-op mode alone so I'm playing every single turtle so I'm trying to play a game with 12 balls and it's still a hard game so I totally understand where people feel that it may be on the brutal side I still think it's a fun brutal as opposed to a mean brutal and there is a difference I agree I think as far as brutality goes I've come down to Do I want to play a long game Or do I want to play a quick game And so if I want to play a quick game I play single player But if I want to play a long game I do the co-op Is what I've learned What else is Do you feel like You haven't played a pro yet have you I haven't played a pro I'm still getting used to it I've only had it for about a week um so the diverter i'm still trying to figure out like the best way to utilize it it basically the only time you're really going to utilize the diverter is either on the uh the center ramp or the left ramp and then you can choose whether or not you're going to the left or right flipper and i i haven't had enough time with the game to say oh yeah i definitely want to shoot it to this side or shoot to that side.
    10:36
    The multi-balls are great. The 8-ball multi-ball is insane. It really does. It feels fun and chaotic without feeling like it's ridiculous.
    10:50
    If you remember the four-player Konami game, the arcade game, where it just felt like you were kind of in button-mashing mode, there's a little bit of that, especially when you're in eight ball multi-ball because it's really hard to trap up on eight balls like you just keep flipping and trying your best and i'm trying to like stare a little higher up on the uh flippers and so i'm not just staring at the lower flipper i'm trying to stare between them and so i can see when a ball's coming down that left orbit and i can try to shoot it up into that uh center ramp but it's it's a fun game i i i'm i i think it will be around for a while uh just think of uh there are games that are brutal and fun think of tron think of iron man they are both fun they're both brutal but yes they all have that shot that is satisfying that's for you christopher frenchy oh my goodness no i i agree with you on all fronts i think that um i think that the game is very fun very fast i don't know if i really have any complaints about it because my collection consists of world cup soccer 94 attack for mars and teenage mirror turtles and so i feel like it's beginner, novice, expert. And so I feel like it fits exactly where I want to in my collection. So which one's the expert right now? Turtles? Turtles. Oh, yeah. It's funny because I've been playing Turtles non-stop since I got it, what, three weeks ago? I finally turned on World Cup last night, and I got to Germany and beat them both via World Cup's, the actual tournament. If you people are familiar with it, you accumulate the cities until you actually get to the world cup and then i've also beat you also beat jeremy on the multi-ball side so you start multi-ball and then you go through the teams you score a goal and then you shoot a ramp score the goals shoot a ramp very very scared stiff elvirus style where you you shoot the the crate and you shoot a ramp and shoot a crate shoot a ramp um and like i said last night i got to world cup with no problem i felt like it world cup really slowed down compared to turtles and so i feel like i feel like turtles that make me a better player yeah that's that's basically what my friend said he had uh he had star wars and again star wars was a brutal game but i would say less on the fun side uh just and that's a personal take uh however he said he would play star wars and then he and he's the guy with the belt he's gary He's the one with the Bally Williams collection. And every time he would go, he'd play Star Wars and then go play another one. He said, I would get like the grand champion score every time because it made him a better player. So I'm not saying that having only brutal games is fun, but it does make you a better player, especially if you're dealing with the fast reaction time being able to shoot on the fly. You know, I found one thing that I do not like with Turtles. Okay. One thing. And this is going to be a very small complaint, and I highly doubt anyone else – I don't know. May this is me being conceited. So in Final Battle – Okay, wait, wait, wait. You skipped. You yada, yada, yada right up until the Final Battle. So you need to say, okay, so I was playing, and I got to the Final Battle. Correct. So I got to Final Battle. Did you do it on one guy or four? I did it on four. Okay, all right. And I'm so stoked. there's there's three phases to final battle and the first phase is a multi-ball and you got to hit so many shots and then you um you once you finish a shot it drains all the balls and then you go into the second phase and all the shots are lit so from the middle to the right is bebop and from the middle to the left is rock steady no sorry vice versa on that and you've got to hit all the shots and you can work on it you can work on just rock say or just bebop but i learned because once you hit all the shots then it lights the orbit for that person so if you complete all the purple shots it writes lights the right orbit for rock city and you've got to hit the right orbit and if you complete all the the red shots then it lights the left orbit for for bebop sorry i'm drawing this out i do apologize it's really hard to do because it's not a multi ball it's a single ball thing and once you go for it uh once you get all the shots for rocksteady if you don't hit the right orbit in time it reverts and you have to do all the shots over again for rock oh it's like a hard wizard mode yes like i don't get this like because i figured this out the hard way because i got all rocksteady done so i completed bebop i'm like perfect so i'm working on rocksteady and Rocksteady is kind of the harder shots because it's the center ramp shot and I get the crank shot I get the center ramp and for some odd reason I'm just not hitting that orbit and then all of a sudden it's blinking really fast and I'm like what does that even mean and all of a sudden it stops blinking and it resets all the shots and I was like you've got to be joking me I felt so discouraged because I'm like it's a single ball it's not like you could just because multi-ball you're just hitting right you're just trying to get shots and you're just spray and pray right and so but when you're in single ball and you have to hit all the shots it's a lot more difficult but that's my only complaint is like i don't feel like i feel like if i hit all those shots the final shot shouldn't time out it shouldn't i shouldn't only have 30 seconds or a minute but i finally on saturday evening in co-op mode did final finish the final wizard mode there's three phases to it i'm not going to ruin anything else just tell you there is three phases to it fantastic though. I really enjoyed it. And I'm still, I love the game. I don't think it's leaving my collection anytime soon. Yeah. It's a, it's brutal, but fun. And you know what? I Ironman, it actually works out perfectly in my Ironman spot because Ironman was the same. It was brutal, but fun. Yep.
    17:19
    So do you like turtles more than Ironman or you need more time on turtles? Oh, I need way more time. It's an Ironman. was uh you know it was a fan layout and you got just kind of used to it um yeah i i think that it has the potential i i think it has the potential of possibly making me maybe consider selling tron wow uh it seems to be just a uh a more advanced version of tron true you don't have the well you have the spinning disc but you don't have the i came where it's called up in the top middle it's essentially the spinning disc the spinning disc yeah so yeah so it just depends it seems like um it's kind of a combination of iron man and tron together okay i can see that so and and it has a much better incorporation on the disc on the pizza disc because it spins both ways which One of my major complaints of having those discs is typically it just has one speed, and on my X-Men, it just shoots it to the left out lane every single time. It's just dialed in. And the fact that it's going one way and then the other, it provides some movement to the ball without getting annoying. Yeah.
    18:48
    And I love the multi-ball start with it. It is it's that multiball is one of the coolest starting multiballs on X-Men. It's even it's just as good because it's the Magneto multiball and it drops down. It goes down. It just spins and explodes out. And it is perfect thematically relevant for Magneto. And I think this feels very incorporated, too, with Turtles, where you have all, you know, three or four of them going at once. So it's a lot of fun. Yeah. I love how much this game has been incorporated with the TV series. If you watch – I know people are like, where the heck is Gummy Bear coming from? If you've ever – just watch even the first episode. They're eating whipped cream pizzas and anchovies and jelly beans. And so I like that. I feel like this whole game hits on all cylinders for me, especially being a Ninja Turtles fan. Right. And I love having the premium extra stuff, the extra stuff. However, I totally think that if you were looking at buying a turtle, turtles and wanted to get the pros, I think you would be 100 percent made whole just like Metallica, where I think Metallica. Yeah, you have some stuff that's different in the premium, but you don't really feel like you're being gypped by playing the pro. So I know that you listen to the pinball show today because we were kind of discussing it. They talked about trending down Turtles because people are selling them based off the brutality. I don't know if Zach got this information off the forums of Pinside or whatnot. Do you feel like that's justified or do you – In many ways, I can understand. The LE prices, the only ones that seem to be locked in and not budging are Keith Elwin's games.
    20:38
    The Jurassic Park Iron Maiden. I still have yet to see an Iron Maiden LE that's being sold. Now, I actually prefer the art package on the premium. On the Iron Maiden, I actually prefer the premium art package, and so I would be interested in getting the premium at some point. but yeah the uh it seems like le's they tend to be um they tend to be people who are interested in the hobby but they're collectors and really they just have some extra extra disposable income so they buy an le it's top of the line it's pretty they hold it for a while and then they say oh there's another le that's coming out oh well okay let's sell this one and get another one so they seem to be okay with taking a loss of 500 500 500 700 even a thousand dollars just because they just uh when you're in that price bracket of buying a toy for almost ten thousand dollars you can say well okay i'm gonna rent this game for a while at that price range and i want the premium package or the le package i guess so they're willing to take that hit um Doesn't seem to be the case with other titles, but it seems to be the standard trend with most LEs. I agree. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's certainly not a – and the challenge is we had the same designer and the same coder, and they had people complaining on their Munsters project that it was too easy. and so yeah and come on guys just uh the bottom line is good you can find a game that you like so it can be too easy it can be too hard but i think the fun factor of this game will keep it around for me for a long time i agree i think the family friendliness of it too will keep it in my collection oh absolutely and this is something that kids will find fun the monsters i'm sorry I remember the Munsters and syndication when I was a kid. And so really, I doubt that you remember the Munsters and syndication. No. Well, I remember on Nick at Night. I did watch it every once in a while Okay sure But it was so you have to be at least 45 years old for this for monsters to be kind of a relevant theme which is maybe why they went for an easier theme Because if grandpa is buying it for his man cave – and yes, I'm saying grandpa. I'm sure grandma could do it too.
    23:17
    But I have a feeling that that demographic is going to want a slightly easier game. I agree. so so are you gonna buy the topper because apparently the topper eye is an option which is that uh weird uh that that bowling ball thingy it's the technodrome eye so there's an eye up on top of the technodrome okay all right and yes if it if it's like the black knight and it's the technodrome eye i'm sold i mean that'd be so cool the eye watching you and shredder harassing you i I don't know. Okay, you think Shredder? I can't imagine it being anything other than the Technodrome with the eye just looking around. I would kind of prefer it to be Shredder basically repurposing the Black Knight topper and making Shredder and him mocking you the whole time.
    24:09
    You could do that or have Krang harassing you the whole time. Yeah, and Krang is – okay, by the way, that is awesome. Like, you do kind of miss that out on the Pro, because the Premium has, like, an illuminated crane that bounces up and down and harasses you. Yeah. Which is kind of hilarious on the Premium. Well, you talked about Elwin and the price not dropping on his games, and we had a Stern teaser this last Friday, and we're hearing rumors. I want to hear your takes on first let's do let's break it down the stern teaser and let's let's break down the rumors okay so if you haven't seen the stern teaser I'm not really sure why you're listening to a pinball podcast because we are like we're we're we're dipping from the same well as the people who are going to go and watch the teaser right yeah so teaser comes out And it's basically the Marvel intro, how it has that card flip thing. And then it usually goes into the Marvel logo. However, this time it went to the Stern logo. And then it said, assembling soon. Now, for anybody who's remotely connected to the Marvel Universe, who says assemble?
    25:31
    The Avengers. It's the Avengers. And so this really shocked me because I didn't think they were going to go back to that well. However, there have been three Avengers movies that have the Avengers in the title. There's been the Avengers. There's been Avengers Infinity War and Avengers Endgame. There's been four movies. You forgot Age of Ultron. Oh, yeah. I totally forgot about that one. Yeah, it wasn't really that good. Okay. um so yeah of the four adventures movies age of old town was my least favorite but um it kind of makes sense that uh the adventures was the first one where they started going through and saying okay we're gonna do this now and they they really again star wars if you want to take a lesson on how to do a franchise right why do you take a page out of the marvel universe like quit doing all these crazy weird schizophrenic movies that are just un they are it's like they can't figure out who like what the star wars universe is there is no cohesive story from one uh from one movie to another and it just seems like they are reinventing things every single movie guess what with the with this and by the way might be saying that it is I'm not trying to make any derogatory comments toward anyone with mental health issues what I am saying is that it just seems unfocused okay yes okay yeah and so I don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying but it just seems like they don't know who they are well if you look at the Marvel Universe they know who they are and for better or worse they have been able to keep a very symmetrical theme so every single piece of the puzzle seems to be as if it's a similar director or a similar writer with without uh without seeing like it's plug and play like each uh you know the guardians of the galaxy movie feels a little different than a captain america movie feels a little different than infinity uh or an avengers movie which is which is very similar to how comic books are. When you're in a universe, you have a different element in the universe, but it still fits together in the universe. Star Wars hasn't figured that out. They seem to be lost. They have some hits and a lot of misses. So that's a long rambling statement to say, look, the crowning achievement of the last 20, 22, 23 films was Endgame. And so they needed a final chapter on that Marvel universe. They needed to have that war, the Infinity War in Endgame. And I think that that seems to be where this is going. I've talked way too long. Go ahead, Josh, What do you think? So originally when we were discussing the what's coming next on our last episode, Avengers did stick in the back of my mind. And the reason being is the first one, I don't know if you would consider a flop from Stern, but it's not regarded as one of their better games. I consider it a miss. I wouldn't consider it a flop, but I would consider it a miss. Okay. Like it's, there are some things that work about it, but there are a few things like the hulk arms and the black widow ramp if they're if they are tuned up then it works oh it works fine but i don't know anybody who plays avengers and says i love that game i agree and i think the price is reflective of that as well it's one of the cheaper if you're looking for a modern stern it's one of the cheaper ones to pick up and so i think that's what also ties in the factor i feel like it's it was kind of a miss um so when we were speculating on our last episode part of me was like it would make sense the avengers because look at i mean end games was what one well it was now the highest grossing film of all time it's like two point something billion dollars and infinity war was one point whatever billion dollars and so you're roughly three and a half four billion between two movies and granted this is the comic book did it finally beat avatar or yes it did okay it finally beat avatar after they re-released it in theaters like two months after it came out they literally really re-released it just so they could beat avatar okay um but back to the point if you're doing a comic book version, which this has got the black order and stuff like that, um, it would make sense that someone said it was infinity quest. I don't think it is. Okay. Well, that was, that was Canada who also said it was queen. So, so if you're going to do the comic, take it for what it's worth, if you're gonna do the comic book version, you're probably going to do infinity gauntlet. Yeah. I don't see anybody like, Like, if you're going to title a game Infinity Quest, I can't think of a more dud title. If you're going to go for it, you're going to go for Infinity Gauntlet or Infinity War. Those are the two options. That's it. But here's the hard part. So in the Marvel Universe, the Infinity War series was entirely different from the Thanos ones.
    31:20
    So the Infinity War series was part of, like, some weird – it actually had Ultron in it. Are you talking the secret wars? No, I'm talking, it's called infinity war. You can look it up, go get comicology, but it's talking about, it's a combination of Thanos and Ultron. Ultron becomes super smart and then takes over like some bug race and uses the bug race. It's very starship troopers meets Marvel.
    31:47
    Okay. Uh, so you'd have to, if it's comic books, in my opinion, you'd have to go Infinity Gauntlet because Infinity War is an entirely different subsection. Unless if you're doing a comic book version of the movie. But if you're doing that, you've added more people into the game than actually are in the movie.
    32:08
    So, I mean – Yeah, I would say that it's certainly tied in to the end of the movie franchise. And it's the same thing as Deadpool where, yes, they didn't pay for Ryan Reynolds to come out, but because they didn't pay for that asset and they worked with Marvel, they had freedom to do other things. So maybe just having – there's a game coming out with PlayStation next month, and so it's something along those lines. It's an Avengers game, and so I don't care how they do the storyline. But it's certainly around the Infinity Gauntlet. So I have no idea what they're going to name it, but that makes sense to me. And I like that we are going with the comic book. I think you can get more of the characters. Because look at the very first Avengers Pinball Machine. It was based solely off the first movie.
    33:03
    And you only have the five heroes. Was there five or six from the first movie? Yeah. Black Widow, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye. Well, in my opinion, it would be a nightmare, an absolute nightmare. Oh, licensing. Licensing would be crazy. There's no way you're going to license that many people. So from a – just from a logistical standpoint, it would be impossible to do it.
    33:32
    And so you want the brand recognition and you want all these characters that everyone has come to love and know over the last 23 – the last 23 movies or 22. and but you don't want the licensing nightmare there i mean look at pirates of the caribbean oh geez i can't imagine what eric went through on that one i can't either but the point being is is i think avengers is a smart move because you get you get marvel characters that are not going to get their own pinball machine well you also get the storyline that's relevant like yes It's still – we're only a year out from Endgame. Yeah, and it still resonates. I still feel bad for Marvel because I do not know what they're going to do now. I mean they've postponed Black Widow, and I don't know if that's because of COVID or because it buys them more time to figure out what the heck they're doing. I think they're smart enough to have a second thing. I mean, I will say that, you know, with with Spider-Man, the far from home and they that was after, you know, after. Hey, spoiler alert. Tony Stark died. So that was after that. And, you know, it was a very, I would say, moving like a moving synopsis in Spider-Man where he talks about that. Tony, Tony gave it to you. He never doubted you. Yeah. Well, but here's the problem, too. So we could see there was a very clear direction of where they were going with Black Panther, with Captain Marvel, with Spider-Man.
    35:08
    Like, God rest his soul, Chad Bozeman passes away on Sunday. Yeah, that was – and obviously shocked everybody. No one knew that was going on. And no one knew that he had colon cancer and he was fighting that wall filming Black Panther. That's wow. That's just wow. Yeah. And so so when your star actors that's going to lead you into the next is gone and they can recast him. I mean, it's not the first time. I think they'll have to and they'll have to find someone who will basically be able to bring his own take on it while honoring Chadwick's legacy. Does that make sense? It's, you know, because he he will always be iconic and there are ways of doing it. And it's not like and I think Marvel will have their everybody's blessing because they want that character to live on. They don't want to die with Chadwick. They want they want that feeling of, you know, in this time. This is this has been a very tumultuous year where a lot of a lot of issues that have always been there have kind of boiled to the surface and resonated meaningfully in many people's minds. And Black Panther was one of those one of those movies that I think resonated and speaks spoke to a large demographic that didn't feel like they had the same voice. so they they don't want that voice to be silent with chadwick like they want his legacy to live on so i guarantee they will figure out a way a meaningful way of making black panther 2 work but it certainly pushed out a little bit obviously and i'm sure i'm sure marvel was aware i'm sure that yeah the people were very aware of what chadwick was going through uh but out of respect for him they uh they were not public with what was going on so yeah and then like i said i guess we're i guess we've gotten off the rails but we did okay but this is what we're talking about we're talking about the relevancy of marvel and where we go now well uh this is why the pin is the perfect like a a cornerstone pin that is going to incorporate a billion characters into a meaningful story that's why the comic book is such a great way of taking that now we go ahead i was gonna say i just i really think that it is a genius move you've got zombie yeti which we're gonna get to well we're guessing i i has zombie officially said it's his i i thought he did but we could be entirely wrong yeah i i think that they have posted more uh he has excuse me he has posted more on uh on social media more recently and saying how things are coming out and it certainly looks zombie yeti-esque so oh he he posted on zombie yeti studios i'm quoting verbatim it's been a busy year wink so yeah and that's what i read too. So it's not like he's saying, hey y'all, the next game is mine, but it's his.
    38:40
    I really think it's Zombie Yeti, looking at the artwork and with what he said. And the other rumor to it is Keith Owens designing it. And if you remember the last time we had him on, he said he already had game three done and in the bag and he was working on game four. Yeah. So it's not out of the realm of him having this being his game. It does seem a little interesting in just that it seemed like Steve Ritchie was up next in the rotation.
    39:10
    But, hey, they can shuffle things around depending on what's available and what's ready. And it seems like that one's ready. And it's the perfect pin to come out right now. And really, it doesn't really seem like a Steve Ritchie type theme.
    39:27
    Yeah. And Steve Ritchie, he did Spider-Man. so but all the other superhero ones he hasn't really done i agree so i i think it will be um okay and full disclosure when i saw the teaser i immediately said okay is this a home pin yes that's what i thought too so i thought i thought this would this will be a home pin version And then when I found out it was a cornerstone and I found out that the rumored designer was Elwin and the rumored artist was Zombie Yeti, I immediately texted Zach and said, I want Nellie.
    40:13
    So I am on. And now it's not official. So distributors cannot take any sort of official confirmation, but they can take interested lists. So if there's, hey, I think this next pin is going to be this, and therefore I'm interested in this. But I think it's going to be a feeding frenzy when it finally gets announced, and we're guessing this week sometime. Can we talk about the insanity of that, though? Let's talk about this just for two seconds. all we have to go on is a 10 to 12 second clip of possibly distorted zombies yeti art nothing else besides that it's infinity war the rumor we don't have any confirmation but the rumor it's keith l1 the i'm gonna i'm gonna say confirmed zombie yeti okay i'm going out there confirm zombie yeti and and that's it and we when we hear that the interested lists are tapped out if they go off of the five to six hundred that they usually do for limited editions this game's limited editions are already sold and we've only seen a 10 to 12 second teaser clip is that insanity or is that just we're so confident in keith ellen and zombie yeti that we're just like boom sold like don't even know any questions like we're doing this well okay i love zombie yeti art i'll put it out there i won't i do too i won't buy a ghostbusters it's i i as um ghostbusters is such a pretty game and it's so packed the playfield is so packed and i just don't have fun playing it i don't i just i don't now when i i look at turtles same artist different designer and it's packed it feels very packed like um like ghostbusters did but it feels fun and the layout is great okay so i'm going more on the designer like but we haven't confirmed it's keith okay well okay but now now now the interested list is i am interested in that product now i haven't cut a ten thousand dollar check yet and so there there in lies the difference if i had if if i got a call from a distributor that says look a game's coming out we don't know who the designer is we think it's this artist are you in give me ten thousand dollars i think you would have a lot less people who would be doing this i don't think so and the reason being is we can look at the history of look at iron maiden his very first game and yes he had archer out but it sold out i think the le sold out within a couple of days didn't it and that's fair and and that but people assumed it was going to be i don't know i guess there's some now keith has a lot of goodwill in the hobby too i if anybody has a negative feeling about keith elwynn then i you're a horrible person i i don't like i just don't see like what like what about keith he's genuinely a nice guy he is uh he he's just easy he's approachable he's a little quiet and he's not going to ruffle feathers and it's people saw the archer and assumed that it was going to be pretty much archered it was yeah but uh you're right you know you do have me on the um on that however there is also rumblings when people on the inside start saying you gotta check this one out yeah that says something yeah we've got yeah do you remember when we when we interviewed josh sharp and the jurassic park had come out for three months and i offered him i said okay in the last 10 years what's the best game and he said is it too early to say Jurassic Park? And I said, really? Like you've played so many games. He's like, yeah, it's really that good. So when you have insiders who have playtesting experience and they're like, you got to check this one out. This is good. But we've had some feelers out now. It's not like I have a pipeline of people who work in the industry, but you have, you know, who are connected to me. But you have people say, hey, you should check this out or hey, watch for this. And when people who are in the know start saying that, that tells me there's something special that they are impressed with. And that doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. There are enough times when you get that sort of buzz that it does push you.
    45:15
    Well, and I don't know. I guess when it comes down to it, like Keith has definitely earned it. Keith is awesome, and his games are great. The other rumor I'm hearing too is it's harder than Iron Maiden, but it's easier than Jurassic Park. So that could be good.
    45:35
    Jurassic Park is hard. Like the two hardest games I have in my collection are Jurassic Park and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yeah.
    45:48
    So maybe this will be a welcome addition. Marvel's Avengers I guarantee you could probably almost any location people are going to be drawn to it my only advice I know that the game's pretty much done we probably going to see it revealed here soon I just I hope that you got good voice actors because my only cringe is is get x x yes you know i i think they learned a little less i with iron maiden and they took a theme i i'm on the record i love the band i'm totally in on the theme um i am a severe outlier in that situation and people still bought the game uh despite the the theme now zombie yeti made it look awesome and i the voice actors they used on that game were so good that yeah it did take it to a different level and you know turtles again hard game and hey mark every time i think of splinter talking to me i'm like hey mark thanks thanks buddy my son keeps running around like he brings friends over he's like that's johnny bravo yeah it's like yeah i i actually uh when i unpack the game i sent a picture of it uh uh to mark and i said hey we're playing you dude mark's the best we should chat with him he's a really good guy so good um so yeah i and that's true and the history though it builds upon it so you have that uh that i mean the last two games if it is a keith elwyn game they've won game of the year yeah so that's a pretty good track record that's a good batting average yep well and and i thought honestly that turtles was gonna be the last one i buy for a little while and after hearing this i'm like dang it yeah i'm trying to figure out why i need to sell and yeah i haven't seen the game yet and i'm like do i i'm not selling anything yet but i'm like just getting ready to run like everyone else once the gates open the floodgates open and yeah well i've got uh so x-men's probably is finally going to be going uh i'll probably be partying with spider-man um maybe partying with black rose uh uh you know what even with teenage ninja turtles even though i love tron i think i'm kind of over it so i may be looking at uh if someone's looking for a super nice Tron, I, you know, send me a message. Cause I, I don't know if you'll find a nicer one than mine. You're going to have to put that up for, yeah, dude, that's yeah. All right. It's, it's, it's so pretty. So I, like, I love it, but I'm, I, you need to, you need to start moving things in. I cannot sell the games. My, my wife loves, that's the bottom line. So, and that's my rule. That's a, that's a quick pro tip. If you're, If you are the primary driver in the hobby and your spouse likes a few things, sell your games before you sell their games.
    48:54
    Yeah, true. So I guess the other question I have, too, is we had a JJP teaser, and we've been hearing rumors of Guns N' Roses.
    49:05
    I personally feel like it's Guns N' Roses. We're hearing that's Toy Story, but the source I've talked to, may it sound like Guns N' Roses is coming out this month or in September. It's Guns N' Roses. Yeah, and I trust them over everyone else.
    49:29
    I just, I don't know, though. It'd be really, really weird. Toy Story's not coming out with another one anytime soon and so it's and Guns N' Roses they just barely finished their giant tour it makes sense that it would be G&R I don't think there's a time there's nothing time sensitive about Toy Story the one question and the question I've had a long time is that wow the do the lyrics from the Guns N' Roses song Do they resonate in 2020 the way they resonated in 1987? And are they widely acceptable? Now, guess what? That's not changing. Like the people who are Guns N' Roses fans, guess what? They're not finding new fans. They're just going off the same fans they always had. So those fans don't really care. They're familiar with those lyrics. They know what they are. So I just don't see it being a big deal for the fan base they're selling to, I guess. for location and maybe uh for home environment yeah guns and roses machine is not going to make it in my home and i i'm torn i've got little kids so i i probably won't if you're going to put avengers in front of me versus guns and roses it's it's a no-brainer yeah love you eric hey i'm we're we're pretty certain that the going rumor is that it's eric's game and absolutely i would love to have an eric game um if they ever make pirates i probably would pick that up but uh yeah sorry guns and roses is kind of a non-starter in my house yeah but i think it's a great theme for at the bars and stuff like that absolutely you know okay acdc also is a non-starter at my house uh when metallica came up for sale i texted my wife and said hey on a scale of one to ten how interested are you in having a guns and or a metallica machine and she said is there a negative number you're like oh no honey no yeah so that's i mean yeah it's it's also kind of hard to have uh to have a family friendly game when they hit the ramp they're like f yeah she's like oh that was a whopper see but i love guns and roses this is the problem like i don't know it's like i i love eric i don't get the guns and roses love okay sorry i love appetite destruction okay okay fine but man like i yeah you know like that movie that you really loved and then you watch it again and you're like yeah it's just it it doesn't speak to me the same way it did back then like i would have a hard time listening to appetite for destruction the same way i did as an angry teenager yeah okay so yeah there's a lot of that I was like, ooh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
    52:22
    Maybe I can play Paradise City every time. I hope – whatever it is, Guns N' Roses or Toy Story, I'm excited to see more JJP. Like seriously, I played Hobbit like a month ago, and I know it's probably the worst JJP game out there. but honestly a JJP pinball machine is an entirely different experience than a regular pinball machine it's the sound system it's the clips it's just you feel like you're immersed in the world and don't get me wrong I feel that with Ninja Turtles and stuff like that but I feel like there's just something about JJP that feels like a step above everything else you're kind of a jjp fanboy right now maybe that's it and i don't own any of the jjp stuff and and mates because it's very cost prohibitive prohibitive to me i mean it is what it is but i just got my hub at playfield today so they were so here's a pro tip on the jjp facebook thing they're selling off uh basically factory seconds and so um i bought a hobbit playfield and so i'm just going to use it as art because i still think the playfield is beautiful um but yeah it's uh okay there's no game that has such an immersive experience than the hobbit a better job of immersing you in the movie um i still don't find it very fun but it's it's still a fun experience i guess so but but they are treading up there it's uh people are finding more ways of enjoying the hobbit so yeah so i just want to put this out there to everyone i'm just going to say you're welcome because you remember two episodes ago when we're like dude where is deep root it's radio silence It's like, we're not hearing a thing. We're not hearing a single thing. And what was it? And I haven't a couple of days later. Yeah. Boom.
    54:31
    Yeah. We, we woke up the deep roots. We watered the, we watered the root. It's time to grow. Yep. So you're everyone you're welcome. I don't know if that's what you're asking for, but boom. Yeah.
    54:44
    No, I'm excited. Let's see what deep root has to offer. More pinballs. Always. It's always good in this hobby, right? well i again more seats to the table like make the table bigger and bring in more chairs manufacturers will drive each other to excellence and so i'm interested i i feel bad that man what a year to pick to try to start a pinball company or at least try to launch a pinball company um i'm glad i'm glad that robert has deep pockets because any other place would probably just say and taking my ball and going home. Yep. Well, and one thing I want to point out too, I talked to someone in the hobby that's very predominant in the hobby and we were discussing September's schedule and they reassured me, said September is going to be jam packed. And this was before everything started coming out. And now look, I mean, we've got Stern, we've got JJP, we've got Deep Root. I mean, can anyone else, I know American just did Hot Wheels, so they're probably not going to do anything. I'm like, it's going to be a crazy September. Yeah, and it's good. I think that everybody's been chomping at the bit. And it's good because machines have been flying off.
    56:04
    I've been kind of lazy, and I haven't listed my Shrek. I still need to sell my Shrek because my wife's like, why are you having a pinball machine in the garage that you're not playing? It's like, I just haven't got around to listing it. And when I was listening to Bruce Nightingale, it kind of clicked in my head today because it's really weirded me out that since March, since COVID's happened, I've seen people spending ridiculous amounts of money. And then when Bruce said it today, it finally clicked in my head. Like a lot of these bars and places that people eat out and whatnot, they're only allowed to have like 50% capacity. capacity and they're usually not even hitting the, they hit nowhere near the 50% capacity. And so they're like, you know, trying to encourage everyone, you know, buy the, buy and get takeout and stuff like that. It just dawned on me. If we've all been stuck at home, a lot of people that haven't been doing trips, a lot of people that haven't been eating out, you know, you get groceries delivered, you're saving a ton of money and you're like, where does this all, where, what should we do with this money? We can't leave the house. Boom. Pinball machine. Yeah. So, and, And rebuilding. So my neighbor is a contractor. And of course, this started with us, too. My wife decided to start looking at our well, first she decided to pick out paint colors and then we ended up wanting to reconfigure half our house. But that's a topic of a different discussion. But our neighbor, who's the general contractor who we'd like to use, he said, I'm too busy. I'm turning away two jobs a day because I just – and basically the money people were spending on going out for entertainment, they're putting into their house and their home entertainment.
    57:46
    Well, even like the industry I'm in, heating and air conditioning, this is the highest demand and most profitable year that they've had in over a decade.
    57:57
    I mean it's just – people are spending like crazy. You can't buy an above ground pool. And if you do, you're going to get charged buku bucks because someone's bought it up and they're reselling it. Like my in June, my my wife's grandmother's like, we should buy one of those giant inflatable slides that you can run water down instead of renting one. And we got online. They were all sold out. Oh, really? You couldn't buy them. So we we bought one last year. So we actually have one that we pulled out a few times. I actually just barely put it away before this. Yeah. I was like, well, we got specs on the one that we were renting, and I was like, it's the 18-foot tall or whatever. And so I went online, and they're all sold out. And these aren't cheap products. I mean, they're ranging from $3,000 to $15,000. Okay. Well, okay. The one that we bought was from Amazon. It was much cheaper than that. I think it was like a few hundred bucks. But my point being is there's a lot of money being spent. I feel like pinball has a good opportunity to seize the moment. Yeah. Well, and I think, I think they are as long as they can manufacture. So. Correct. And it sounds like they're doing great on, on whatever the restrictions and whatnot they might have. Yeah. The manufacturing restrictions.
    59:14
    Yeah. So. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to, well, did you want to, I don't know if I really give you an opportunity to talk about deep brew or we're just leaving it at that. Cause there really wasn't anything. And this is, I was disappointed because I thought the radio silence just meant that they were another casualty. So I'm excited. I'm looking forward to it, and I will look at the live stream. Do we know when the official day on that is? No. No, we haven't heard. So watch for it because then when it's time, check it out.
    59:47
    So I'm going to move into the last thing that I really want to talk about because if you follow Dead Flip or Jack Danger on social media, It's Deadflip Pinball Streaming. He posted an infogram this last couple of days, and it's really made my brain click. We talk about themes that are very profitable in the pinball industry and what would be good themes to benefit from the pinball hobby. And so he posted the top 25 media franchises – sorry, the top 25 highest-grossing media franchises of all time.
    60:33
    Can you guess the top three? I'm going to – I want to see if you can even get one in the top three, Scott. Okay, well, okay. I have a few questions. Is this adjusted for inflation?
    60:46
    Yes. A lot of the ones I'm looking on this list have all been within the last – I want to say the last 20 years. Okay, so that's not adjusted for inflation because did you know the number one movie of all time adjusted for inflation is Gone with the Wind? Yes. Sorry. No, there's ones on this list that would be from the 50s and stuff like that as well. Yeah, and I don't think we're getting a sound and music pinball machine either. No.
    61:10
    And I'm going to tell you right now, all these numbers are in the billions, not millions, billions. Okay, are you talking single movies or a collection of movies? Because if you say a collection of movies, I would say the Marvel Cinematic Universe is the king with 23 films. Marvel Cinematic Universe is on the list, but it doesn't even break the top. It might be the top ten. It might be the very last of the top ten. Wow. Okay, of the last ten years, I guarantee that – okay. And the challenge is you're looking at relevant ones. So Star Wars has to be in there. So it's not movies. It's media franchises. So. OK, OK. So let me let me put it this way, too. So Disney isn't a media franchise. They're saying like Mickey Mouse and Disney princesses.
    62:05
    And because, you know, Star Wars and all that would also fall under Disney. But they've kind of separated them out. Essentially, if you were to go to Walmart to buy a backpack for your child, you would be buying Star Wars. You wouldn't be buying Disney. You're buying Star Wars. Does that make sense? Yeah, okay. Okay, so let me guess a little bit on this.
    62:29
    Top three. Minecraft? No. Minecraft's not in that top 25. Wow. Fortnite? nope i'm in the top 25 and the other interesting part too is i'd say about five of these titles on this list aren't even american titles oh okay that was what i was i was also questioning is this u.s centered or is this global um this is global yeah because pinball is very much a european North America and Australian Sport.
    63:10
    So the top three, I guarantee you've heard each one of these franchises. Hello Kitty? Yes, number two. Okay. These are all going to be like Asian centric stuff.
    63:24
    Hello Kitty? Well, Hello Kitty is Asian centric but... Okay, give me a hint. Okay, the number one franchise yeah is a video game based franchise okay is it okay and this is where i need dennis creasel i don't know much about video games um there's like don't overthink it don't overthink it mario no but mario is in the top 25 okay a video based franchise well i asked fortnite um world of warcraft is that still a thing no but that let's see i think that is actually a list yeah uh no actually sorry that's on a different list i was looking at okay so number one number one highest grossing media franchise of all time at 92 billion dollars is pokemon okay all right i could see that that makes sense right i mean it's very popular in the u.s but that's also still very Asian. It still is. It's centered in Asia culture. Okay.
    64:39
    Number three. This one actually kind of shocks me. It's bigger. So one was Pokemon. Two is Hello Kitty. But I think the thing is, is Hello Kitty and Pokemon, yes, they are based in the Eastern culture, but they do have a big... They have a crossover. Yeah, they have a crossover. Yes, in the Western. Yeah. Okay. Number three. Winnie the Pooh. yeah okay bigger than number four which is mickey mouse that blows my mind that winnie the pooh is higher than mickey the mouse i wonder how they the mouse is it is it is it like for lunch boxes sold or children's books or so there's multiple categories it covers so that's like video games merchandise trading cards comics okay so uh movies the box office so it covers a lot of I think even like plates, you know. Sure.
    65:35
    I think the challenge, though, is that to be a successful marketing company, you need to take that. You need to take that and tease out whatever demographic you're looking for, which is why in in shows or at least in television, they always try to tease out the 18 to 30 year olds because they tend to be the most, the most influenced by advertising. And so it doesn't really matter. Like you can have 2020 or the CBS evening news or something like that. And that's great if you're trying to cater to the AARP crowd. And I'm rapidly approaching that by the way, but it's more of a, that's not going to command the same sort of marketing capital that, you know, friends in its heyday or whatever the kids are watching nowadays.
    66:28
    That's, you know, that's the reason why it teases it out. And so, you know, just because you get you get viewers doesn't necessarily mean there's an overlap. The Venn diagram of the demographic who plays pinball, who also is part of that franchise, that's where the licensing magic happens. Yeah. So do you – okay, my question is do you think the top four has any chance in the pinball industry? Okay, so list off the top four again. Pokemon, Hello Kitty, Winnie the Pooh, and Mickey Mouse.
    67:02
    I would say Pokemon, yes. Okay. Because there is still – there's still that crossover with video games. And you're going to see a lot more of that video game crossover.
    67:14
    Yes, I actually think Mickey Mouse would. However, what's ironic is Mickey Mouse is more of a mascot. Name any major movie that Mickey is a part of. None really. And I feel like Mickey's focus has been more towards – It's like Mickey's Playhouse. Yeah, it's more toddler right now. Well, but it's just – it's usually a method to sell something, like to sell the Disney experience. And by the way, I am all for having that magical escape. We – there are people who are pro-Disney, anti-Disney, and pretty indifferent to Disney. I'm actually pro it. I think what they do is amazing. I think being able to license that experience is great. But, yeah, it's – I don't know. So I would say that Mickey, maybe.
    68:09
    Pokemon, I would say yes. You could possibly do a Mickey Mouse one. but this is kind of that challenge of um like hot wheels i'm actually i think the theme caters to a younger crowd like a um then people remember this i mean it's selling because it's a good game and people have historical connection to this uh franchise but and it's not like um like Teletubbies, that's huge, or at least it was, on Yo Gamma Gamma or Gabba Gamma or whatever it was. That was huge for the toddler crowd, but eventually when you get to the pinball crowd, there has to be some sort of relevancy.
    68:53
    Okay. Yeah, I agree. So I would say Pokemon, yes. I'm sure Disney would, though. You would sell a lot of those to basements. The Mickey Mouse? Yeah. Okay. Okay so I going to go down this list It a long list I just want a quick yes or no Yeah I say yes or no okay um and there going to be some of the on this list have already been made into pinball machines so okay i don know if you want to say yes or no or if you just going to say already made okay okay next after mickey mouse star wars done done uh what the crap is this and and pan man it's it's japanese yeah yeah and not relevant not relevant to the pinball market disney princesses ironically yes if they if they made a disney princess game i guarantee it would like that would be a an on-site money maker it would be do you think it would attract you know we're always talking about diversity and drawing more diversity in do you think a frozen pinball machine a moana pinball machine do you think that helps diversify okay i i think it brings it brings more chairs to the table it's not like 70s and 80s rock bands um but uh yes i think it would however However, if you want something that would have a little more overlap, I've said it before, I think a pink, you know, the pink, the singer, I think she would actually be a great pin if you could integrate that. But yes, I actually think that you would sell a Disney princess pin. Yeah. Okay. So this next one already has been made, but nowhere near recent. Mario. Yes. A hundred percent. Okay.
    70:56
    Shoujin Jump? No. Okay. Harry Potter. Yeah. This one's already being made. Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yeah. Which I find this next one interesting. Spider-Man, which has already been done. Okay, but Spider-Man, that's technically a competing – it's a weird historical licensing thing. But yeah. So, yeah. Any superhero is pretty relevant right now. Okay.
    71:27
    Gundam. Do you remember Gundam? Nope. It's Japanese, but it bled over into the American culture, especially in the late 90s because Linkin Park was heavily into it. It's flying.
    71:42
    Imagine Transformers, but if they fought with swords. Okay, it looks like Robotech. Yeah, it's combined together to make one giant thing. It's too niche. Too niche. Okay. But that's – what is this on the list? 15th? Something like that? Anywho. Okay. Batman.
    72:04
    Yeah, obviously. Yeah. Dragon Ball Z. No. I think it's too – It's too niche and outside. The Venn diagram does not include pinball. I think there is some room for it, but it's a very weird spot. That's not low-lying fruit. Maybe back in the days when you were making eight games a year or eight to 12 games a year, like once a month, you can take a risk on that. Not right now. Okay. Barbie.
    72:42
    Yeah, I think you could. You would have to walk a fine line with Barbie. Because you would have to integrate the theme correctly.
    72:53
    And so it – because Barbie – there's a difference between Barbie in the 60s, 70s, and 80s versus what image you would want to portray today. So – but yeah, you can sell Barbie. Okay.
    73:10
    Fist of the North Star. Zero chance. and that's right that's right up there with uh what's that uh that horrible band that you were talking about the alpha bots or something like that oh my goodness the aquabats okay all right that was close okay uh cars okay like like like mustang or no sorry disney's cars or pixar's cars yeah absolutely you could do that one uh toy story yeah i think i think uh that should be coming out So, yeah. One piece. It's a Japanese anime manga that. Yeah. Manga is you know what? Manga is really difficult to integrate into the U.S. market just because it's the art style is suggestive of very young people in scantily clad things. And so manga would be a tough sell for the U.S. market, especially in today's society. well what i've learned too along with the japanese culture is a lot of it starts out in manga if it does really good as manga it moves on to anime and if it does good as anime they they will make a movie or they will promote it further from there right and and that's fine i think that's for the japanese market it doesn't have enough crossover yeah all right uh this one's already been done lord the rings yep uh james bond i mean we haven't had one since the 90s uh yugio uh again it's asian it it does i don't think it has enough uh i okay to put it bluntly pinball is a western hobby i think i think that's too eastern you're telling me that home pin that's making the chinese zombies is going to the wrong market uh well it's an untapped market so yeah um that that you know they don't really have much to compare it to all righty number 24 i would actually like to see this one uh peanuts yeah i can see it and that would be that could be to the and they just had a a peanuts movie recently so yeah sure and then last but not least transformers yeah yeah they they shouldn't have done that one but they did so so my question is let's take transformers for a second because i mean obviously it scored higher than teenage mutant turtles um if you did the the ninja turtles treatment to transformers where you did maybe the cartoon from the 80s you get some zombie yeti artwork uh and you you go that route instead of the movies do you think it would make a better pinball machine than what the movie one produced i think the challenge with the game is that it's uh the layout has not been able to be redeemed with code or anything else and so it's just not a good it's not a good pin um yeah i i is the theme is that something you could sell yes is that one something that you could sell i think uh players have moved on but you can always uh resurrect a uh a missed theme opportunity which i think is what what's going to happen with the next term release so So here's the question, too. Someone pointed this out, and it's been weighing on my mind now that they've pointed it out. If you include the Data East era, the last five out of six Stern titles have been pretty much remakes of older titles.
    76:47
    Well, nostalgia sells. And this has been a longstanding item where they talk about, has Hollywood run out of ideas? Is everything just being recycled? Well, I think everybody, when you were 14 or 12 or 10, there's stuff that you thought, that is really cool, but my dad is not going to buy that for me. Well, now you're in your 40s and you think, wow, that's really cool. I can buy it. Guess what? um, subtract 30 years or so. And that's the, that's your wheelhouse. So we're going out of the, uh, of the eighties and maybe into the nineties. However, the nineties is when things started becoming diverse. And in the eighties, we had more of a concentration of, of mega franchise type things. And I don't know if you have that same type of thing in the nineties, but right now you can sell them i mean i i would buy well for example he-man that's something that sells that's relevant to my demographic and i think you would sell he-man so do you think stern benefits from these older titles that weren't are not regarded as great pinball machines so an example i mean the bar wasn't really set super high for keith ellen to make jurassic park a better game t.h.murray turtles john borg did not have a super hard challenge have to outdo the data east version um i'm trying to think what else has come out in the last i mean well well they they've remade the batman and they remade batman the dark knight uh into batman 66 which has been better um they remade the simpsons which was better than the data east uh they've you know they've had like three versions of the playboy game they've had james bond and so yeah you can always but my point being is is the newer sterns do you think they benefit because the older games aren't as fantastic uh well i don't think you're going to remake lord of the rings yeah because the previous version is so good if you have a low bar to clear but it's still if it's still not a good game people are going to move on okay yeah i i don't know i the bar wasn't set super high my very first well it wasn't technically my first game my parents bought it but teenage mutant turtles the data east version um it was just all right like it's it's all right for a beginner game but there's not enough to put your teeth into so oh for a second i thought you said transformers and i'm thinking wow data used to transformers yeah yeah the old the old one's garbage yeah yeah and so um i don't think that really weighed into a factor in my mind when i was buying the new ninja turtles yeah i don't think so but but you don't want it to be worse yeah you just but so i pulled up a different list i just pulled up the movie list by the way and from 2001 the number one movie and you know i'll just say include 2000 so most of these have been remade somehow uh or made into pinball mission impossible not harry potter no lord of the rings lord of the rings shrek harry potter no pirates of the caribbean pirates of the caribbean dark knight avatar toy story uh harry potter adventures frozen uh transformers star wars captain america star wars adventures avengers bad boys for life um why don't we have a bad boys game that might That was this year. So, but you know, it's, if you look at that, I would say the vast majority of those have been made and the ones that haven't been made, there's probably reasons or, you know, obviously in the Harry Potter thing, there's something that's holding that license back.
    80:50
    But yeah, it's movies and music. It's, it's the thing that people consume in mass quantities. And so I think they should – I also think they should start looking into other things, maybe culturally relevant things. Well, and I think – Like Mario game. There should be some crossover, but they've had a hard time in capturing that lightning. Yeah. Well, and I think a video game title will be more accepted now than it was then. I think the problem with Mario is it was first done by Gottlieb, and second, they dumbed down pinball so badly with the second version of the Mario game that they came out with. It just wasn't fun. It was like they were trying to get kids involved, but you've only got a couple things to hit for, and there's not even outlanes. outlanes you know um i just i feel like mario would really really benefit from a new pinball machine i mean even looking at the top grossing uh video game franchises i mean obviously pokemon's at the top if it's if it's the top media franchise of all time uh you know mario call of duty i wouldn't mind seeing maybe something like call of duty uh pac-man's number five space invaders Street Fighter. I mean, Street Fire would definitely benefit from a new game. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard. They actually did a really good job with Deadpool in incorporating that fight into it.
    82:32
    I guess we'll see. I think there are some themes that just don't translate very well. Sonic the Hedgehog? I think that theme would translate amazing. It would. Sonic would be great. They should do that for the next Sonic movie that's coming out. Yep. Halo. Do you think a Halo one would do good?
    82:52
    A shooting game seems a little less. I think a Sonic one really would be a no-brainer. Okay. I still think Legend of Zelda. Yeah, and Zelda would be good, too. But I think of Sonic, though. You have the spin thing, and that's, yeah. I didn't even think about Sonic until you brought it up, but absolutely. And I think Sonic – well, and you've got mechs you can reuse. I mean look at Stern. You could reuse the NASCAR mech. I mean where it just gets the ball going really, really fast or another version of – yeah, Supercharger from Getaway. I mean my – I didn't really think Sonic was a good idea for a pinball machine until – I didn't think it was going to be a good movie, and it turned out to be a fantastic movie like for the theme obviously. Yeah. um so my brother-in-law is really really into sonic and he started talking you know pinball's kind of about numbers right like it's always like complete x amount of modes and you collect x amount of things so you can get to x amount of whatever achievements you need to do to get to the final wizard mode and he started talking about like chaos emeralds there's seven chaos emeralds and you know there's eight different areas and and and we've seen i don't know if you've checked out the Sonic the Hedgehog home brew, but it's fantastic. Go check it out. The gentleman that's making it, it's way cool. And so I just, I feel like there's a lot of room. There's a lot of creativity that could go into a Sonic the Hedgehog pinball machine. And I think that might even do better than a Mario right now, but I could be wrong. Mario. Well, I think it would be easy, easy to do a Sonic one.
    84:33
    But other than that, yeah. We keep bringing up Deadpool. I finally actually got to get my hands on a Deadpool and just play the crap out of it.
    84:44
    The thing that I've walked away from it is, in my opinion, this is me, it's too easy. Second time, my second game I put onto it, I got to the very end.
    84:58
    I love the artwork. I love the concept. I don't feel like there's enough to the code. It could be. I mean, it's challenging, though. You have a couple of ricochet shots, and that Katana ramp is fun. Yeah.
    85:15
    Fantastic game. If you're looking for a beginner game, I don't know. We had one of the listeners message in that he didn't feel like it was a great home game, just because it talks about the Hell House and some of that stuff. so he ended up getting it because he didn't want it around his family but i i still feel like it's a good starter game if you're looking for a modern stern uh i think deadpool is a good one to cut your teeth on that's my opinion that's fair so uh it's just not for me i don't think i'll get a deadpool in the collection it's one of those games maybe if i if i found for a really really good price like really good i think i think it's it's more fun than that but you know it's fine i get it it's a fun game. Don't get me wrong. I'll, I'll pump some quarters onto it and on location and stuff, but I just don't see it coming into the collection. So, yeah. Okay. I don't think Ryan Reynolds could fix that. No, but I, I still think it's a fun game. So it's, uh,
    86:16
    Hey, you had monster bash for a while. So, and that's pretty easy game. I felt like monster bash is harder than Deadpool. Huh?
    86:25
    Yeah. Well, you must be a better player than me then. So, I don't know about that probably true yeah we'll get to final battle and then tell me how it is and okay I am getting consistently to the point where I can get to uh team up either on first or second ball uh in co-op and then if I'm playing I can get to team up usually on single player so I feel like I'm progressively getting better on Ninja Turtles so alright uh other than that I think that pretty much does it for us I think it does, too. Yeah, we've rambled on a lot about just catching up on stuff, but we're going to start lining up a few more interviews coming up as soon as things start opening up. By the way, if you have ideas and people you want us to reach out to, go ahead and shoot us a message and we'll see what we can do. I agree. Like I teased on the last episode, we do have someone coming on. They've been on our show before. We're excited to have them back. so we're just we're trying to time stuff out right now so uh there's a couple people we've got lined up so we we enjoy doing i like i really enjoy doing the interviews it's cool to uh talk to these people and who was i listening to was i think it was poor man's pinball podcast and they were talking about our episode with dwight sullivan and talking turtles and just how that was one of the better episodes out of all the ninja turtles uh interviews and i i thought that was very that was very humbling because I didn't think I just I don't know what it is. I just I think we just talk. You know, I'm saying, Scott, we just talk back and forth. We have someone on. I asked really dumb questions, but I guess a lot of people appreciate it. So I'm glad that you guys appreciate it. Yeah. And we still have that that promotion going. Josh, go ahead and talk about it. We have a few swag bags we want to give up. We want to give another week or two opportunity to get more entries in and to let people have the chance if they missed our last episode so correct so what we're doing right now uh we've had we've had a handful of entries come in um we are giving away some loser kids swag bags for we want you to go out to your favorite pinball location if you feel safe mask up glove up take your your your alcohol sanitizer with you and go take a picture with you playing at your favorite location.
    88:50
    We don't want any more Bruce Nightingales. I know there's going to be casualties, but we want you to go out and support the community as much as you can. And even if you can't, I don't know if you can, some of these places provide food. You can get to go. If you drink alcohol or whatnot, you can get that to go. Whatever you can do to please support these wonderful barcades, arcades, and places that are trying to keep the spirit of pinball alive uh it's it's become pretty much a home market right now so if you're feeling safe and your favorite place can be your home so yeah if you if you don't want to go out if you if you you know some places have been hit a lot harder than others if you're under curfew or whatnot then just take some pictures at home with you and your favorite pinball machine or whatnot post it either to facebook instagram uh twitter tag us in it you can send to our email We had a gentleman send one to our email.
    89:50
    Wherever it may be, send it to us. Okay. And, yeah, we'll wrap that up. Go ahead and if you're listening to us, please give us a review on your favorite podcatcher. A lot of times iTunes. It certainly helps us be able to get increased in our search ability. And if you have any suggestions for the show, please send them to us. What else do you want to say, Josh? If you want to contact us, please get a hold of us via Facebook. That's probably the best place to get a hold of us. It's like Facebook.com slash Loser Kid Pinball. Or you can get a hold of Scott or I individually on there.
    90:28
    Or me. I don't know. Anyhow. It's me. You're a direct object. I'm like, it's late. It's one time. Anyhow. We're also on Twitter, on Instagram.
    90:40
    Message us at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. We do have people emailing us there now. If you want to check out our direct link to the podcast, it's soundcloud.com slash Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. And, yeah, just hit us up. We definitely want you to do that poll from Brad with Lit Frames. We'll be posting that shortly after we post this episode. And we can't wait to hear from you guys again. All right. And as Bill and Ted say, be excellent to each other and… Pinball on. but i'm ching wow that was okay that was finishing with a thud all right okay you know what what do they say sorry dude i haven't seen the new i haven't seen the new bill and ted and last time i saw bill it's the old one it's the party on dudes yeah so that's the first that's the first one from like 87 are you sure that sounds wayne's world ish to me it'd be excellent to each other and party on days. Okay. Wow. That's hurtful. All right. I hear the new movie is hot garbage, so don't worry about that. But go watch the other one. The original one's really fun.
    91:50
    I've heard mixed reviews. Okay. So do you want to say it again one more time? No, it's fine. That's perfect. All right. Check out, guys. We'll see you in two weeks or so.
    92:06
    Bye.