Episode 977: "Is Haggis Done?"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·18m 49s·analyzed·Jul 16, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Kaneda blames Haggis collapse on founder delusion and community enablement of boutique failures.

Summary

Kaneda delivers a scathing critique of Haggis Pinball's apparent collapse, tracing a pattern of boutique manufacturer failures in pinball. He argues the community enables these failures through blind faith, non-refundable deposits, and lack of accountability, citing inadequate due diligence by content creators and local community members. Kaneda calls for industry reform: rejecting non-refundable deposits, demanding transparency, and holding founders personally accountable for consumer money.

Key Claims

Haggis Pinball loaded two trucks and fled after falling months behind on rent with landlord threatening to seize assets
medium confidence · Kaneda citing 'sources on the ground' regarding Haggis operational status in early 2026
Haggis Pinball announced Fathom Revisited in April 2021 and said they would be done with those games by then
high confidence · Kaneda directly recalling Haggis's public statements
Haggis Pinball's Fathom games never succeeded competitively against modern remakes in the secondary market
high confidence · Kaneda's market observation: 'Their games have decreased in value in the secondhand market'
Barrels of Fun announced their company only after they had games in boxes, without asking for non-refundable deposits upfront
high confidence · Kaneda contrasting Barrels of Fun's launch model with Haggis/American Pinball approach
Content creators like Iceman44 failed to perform due diligence on Deep Root Pinball, never walking into the facility to discover lack of actual manufacturing
medium confidence · Kaneda criticizing community cheerleaders for not investigating company claims
Boutique pinball manufacturers consistently scale up after failure despite no evidence this strategy works
high confidence · Kaneda's structural critique of the pattern: 'What other industry have you ever seen where you scale up after you fail?'
Spooky Pinball no longer needs non-refundable deposits but uses them strategically to prevent customer bailouts when secondary market prices tank
medium confidence · Kaneda's opinion on Spooky's pricing power and customer protection
Kaneda claims people have been trying to remove him from podcasting and he will detail this in a future episode
medium confidence · Kaneda's statement: 'people trying to take this podcast from me and I will explain that at a later date'

Notable Quotes

“What other industry, what other career, what other manufacturing company have you ever seen where you scale up after you fail? And that is something that's really unique to pinball.”
Kaneda @ ~08:45 — Core thesis identifying pattern of boutique founder behavior as industry-specific pathology
“And ladies and gentlemen, that is kind of how Ponzi schemes work. I'm not saying this is a Ponzi scheme, but it's a similar type of thing because you point at something that gives consumers confidence.”
Kaneda @ ~12:30 — Kaneda's direct comparison of boutique deposit models to fraudulent financial schemes
“I don't think any company should take nonrefundable deposits until they can prove they can make it happen. When Barrels of Fun came out, they didn't ask for nonrefundable deposits before a single game was built.”
Kaneda @ ~15:00 — Specific counterexample and policy prescription for industry reform
“They're not done this month. They're not done this week. They were done three years ago. They didn't have a business plan that was ever going to work.”
Kaneda @ ~28:45 — Definitive assessment of when Haggis's business model became unsalvageable
“The problem with all these boutiques is all the equity is just with the founders... See that is why Gary Stern always says we are a manufacturing company. To really succeed you need to have people on the line.”
Kaneda @ ~32:15 — Identifies structural weakness in founder-only equity boutique model vs. professional manufacturing operations
“Manufacturing in Australia and having to import parts was never going to work. Finding cheap labor over there was never going to work. All of this was never going to work.”
Kaneda @ ~26:00 — Specific critique of Haggis's fundamental operational decisions

Entities

Kanedaperson Haggis PinballcompanyDamien HartonpersonBarrels of Funcompany Deep Root Pinballcompany American PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

?
business_signal: Haggis Pinball appears to have abandoned operations, with sources reporting they fled the facility after falling months behind on rent with landlord threatening asset seizure
medium · Kaneda's report: 'they were months behind on their rent and the landlord was going to lock them out of the property and seize the assets and so what did they do? They loaded up two trucks and they fled for the hills'
~
sentiment_shift: Kaneda signals growing frustration with repeated boutique failures and community's enabling role, arguing the pattern is unsustainable and must be halted
high · Kaneda's closing argument: 'There's just too much other pinball that is working out... we don't need these boutique failures anymore'
$
market_signal: Haggis games have declined in secondary market value, failing to hold value or compete against modern remakes
high · Kaneda: 'Their games have decreased in value in the secondhand market. Trying to compete with a centaur versus the modern Pinball experience was never going to work'
?
product_concern: Haggis's innovation of polycarbonate/acrylic playfields created manufacturing problems incompatible with standardized parts, limiting remake feasibility
medium · Kaneda: 'you started to hear, when you go to manufacture that, it becomes problematic because all the standardized parts that would be available... become incompatible'
?
industry_signal: Pattern of boutique founders receiving unwarranted community benefit of the doubt despite repeated failures, creating moral hazard

Topics

Haggis Pinball operational collapse and asset seizureprimaryBoutique manufacturer business model failures and scaling pathologiesprimaryNon-refundable deposit practices and consumer protectionprimaryCommunity accountability and content creator due diligence failuresprimarySecondary market pricing and game value retentionsecondaryManufacturing operations and operational efficiency as competitive advantagesecondaryStem pricing strategy and market positioningsecondaryFuture of pinball industry: mid-sized boutique vs. mass production modelssecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.82)— Kaneda is highly critical and angry throughout, using language like 'burned them', 'ruined', and Ponzi scheme comparisons. He expresses frustration with community enablement of failures, lack of accountability, and what he sees as systematic consumer exploitation. Tone is prosecutorial rather than conversational. Only bright spots are brief mentions of Barrels of Fun and Dutch Pinball as counterexamples.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.056

What if I told you it was April of 2021 when haggis pinball announced they were making fathom revisited and I think even back then they said they were going to be done with those games Hand Weil Richardson Wednesday week as we begin therada of the new yearatta of the year that's being held at t Jonah and to remember the man who sent the 니ck Mouse to the n-4 team on I am hearing from my sources on the ground that they were months behind on their rent and the landlord was going to lock them out of the property and seize the assets and so what did they do? They loaded up two trucks and they fled for the hills. And so I just want to ask everybody on this episode of Kenea's Pinball Podcast two questions. Is Haggis done for good and how did we get here again? I've been covering this hobby for 10 years. Let's start with the second question. How do we have another boutique company that once again has failed to deliver on its promises? And you got to remember like this company made Kelts. They didn't sell many of them. And from there they went from Kelts to Fathom and they were going to make games in Australia which is also really expensive. They also made some changes to the pinball game that You know, I was just going to say, this is the first time I've ever heard about the Plexiglas Playfield, but, you know, the idea that for a lot of us were seemingly beneficial, right, they were going to do that Plexiglas Playfield with the art printed underneath, but then you started to hear, when you go to manufacture that, it becomes problematic because all the standardized parts that would be available if you wanted to remake Fathom Covertly singular, So What highway Pinball Went Through, where you go from like announcing a game that nobody really wanted in Celts and Full Throttle, then you scale up operations after a failure. I mean, just think about that for a minute. What other industry, what other career, what other manufacturing company have you ever seen where you scale up after you fail? And that is something that's really I feel like unique to pinball. It's like if you can just screw together anything, whether or not it's successful in some weird way, these like founders of these boutique companies, they start to get delusional and these like ideas of grander if they just scale up. You know, if I just make more, more sales will come regardless of what is the theme, regardless if I even know how to scale up and regardless if I've taken How to build the right company to absorb all of the overhead. Think about Fathom and Haggis, you think about this company that basically was like garage building these kelts in like a tiny little factory. And then if you go look at the factory tour, you got to go back and watch this stuff. You got to go watch the factory tour of Damien walking around that big factory by himself I'm going to stop pinball podcasting and I'm going to go into the business of pinball podcasting. This Week in Pinball, Game of Thrones unintlected title or abbreviation for Retro Atbringing, Terminate of making pinball machines you would look at me like I crazy and even if I did like garage build a few games if I then asked to take like orders on hundreds of machines you should look at me like I crazy and yet in pinball and it not just Damien it was Andrew Highway it was John Popadiuk it was Kevin Kulik the list goes on and on for some reason we always give these people the benefit of the doubt as if because they making pinball they have some manifest destiny by the gaming gods that it will all just work out And we've seen it before. And the most dangerous thing with these guys, because what they always end up doing, and it's very similar like highway pinball to haggis, they always end up somewhat succeeding. And as long as they somewhat succeed on doing something right, everybody will point to that as being the reason why it's all going to work out. And ladies and gentlemen, that is kind of how Ponzi schemes work. And I'm not saying this is a Ponzi scheme, but it's a similar type of thing because you point at something that gives consumers confidence. It's like, hey, look, they built those full throttles, so what could possibly go wrong as we move into manufacturing of Alien? They built those kelts, and so what's going to go wrong when they go to build the fathoms? And a lot goes wrong! And yet here we are again. And if I had to summarize why I think this happens, I think there are cheerleaders in the community, and you know who they are. They're never held accountable. Some of them are content creators, but most of them are people on the ground, local to these companies who don't do their due diligence to look out for the community. How many times, how many times did Iceman drive around Deep Root Pinball? Did he ever knock on the door? No. If he had just walked in once and seen that there's no manufacturing going on, it would have saved everybody in the community. substantial criticized people Shirka H, we are done talented with a formal dedication consisting of Silicon Launchy, Crapman, vertical- súper crank donkey, Longium texting ártext créer, Speaker Will Smith does not assume that 입в a I don't think any company should take nonrefundable deposits until they can prove they can make it happen. You know, when Barrels of Fun came out, they didn't ask for nonrefundable deposits before a single game was built. They announced their company when they had games in boxes. But I don't think any pinball company should have nonrefundable deposits. I think it's a joke. I think it's given a lot of these companies immunity from accountability. And I think as a community, we should be done with them. And guess what? The easiest way for us to get rid of nonrefundable deposits is when a company announces a new game with a nonrefundable deposit, don't give a deposit. Everybody can just get together and not give a deposit and that would make them alter their business models. Like maybe we need to get the theme right. Maybe we need to figure manufacturing out. Maybe we can't lie to customers about when they're going to get their games and if we stop lying and we're more transparent, we'll be fine. Like right now, do you really think Spooky Pinball right now still needs to have nonrefundable deposits? They don't. They absolutely do not. The reason they have it right now is it's beneficial to them because if people start to see prices tanking on Ultramans like we did after they revealed it and after they shipped the game, then people can't bail out, right? They're almost not held accountable for the game not being good. But I'm sorry. If your game is six months away from being built and you You no longer want it, there is no reason why you shouldn't get your money back. So like we're a community that is overly accepting. We're a community that just doesn't hold these companies to the fire. And look, 10 years ago I would understand if there was this level of blind faith in pinball companies but we talking just a year ago when Damien came out with Centaur Revisited and we did not I mean this there was not pitchforks and torches at the door of Haggis Pinball when they made that move I feel like I was the only content creator that was calling them out for the utter BS of taking deposit money on a new game when they were so far away from fulfilling the orders on all of those And yet there's no accountability, and yet we have everybody saying, I love pinball, pinball's fun. It's all about positivity in pinball, but I'm sorry, but someone's got to be looking out for the consumer. Someone's gotta be looking out for the community, and it is a community that has shown over the years. It will not look out for itself. It will look out for the manufacturers over the community, over the customers, and that's weird to me. It's really weird to me that like, you know, people cheerlead a company like Stern charging $13,000 when they just remove the color from their printers and we're all supposed to just get on board. We're just going to keep remaking everything. They're pretty much almost charging us for a Godzilla premium, the same price the Ellie was just a few years ago. And we're just all okay with it. But look, Stern is going to do what they do. Look, I don't care if legit companies rip us off. Like that's one thing because then it's on me to decide whether or not I want to buy their product. But Haggis Pinball, I don't think we can consider Haggis Pinball like a fully legit healthy company. They never were. American Pinball has never been a fully legit healthy company. No, they're backed by someone else's money. If they had to survive on their own ideas, they'd fail. And you go down a list for every pinball company that's been successful. There's probably three to four that have not. Now, the other reason I think this happens in pinball other than the community allows it to happen in like pin side allows these guys to exist and we have all these community members not looking out for each other. The other reason I think it happens a lot in pinball is it takes forever to die. If you think about it, pinball companies, man, they go on far longer than they ever should. And sometimes they pull off a miracle like Dutch pinball. And that's the thing. It's like if a company like Dutch pinball People come toån a great deal to the pinball podcast after the next more than 6 years of後 WPPR Ort manä weitersaaht, ano, ون Neil Huyicsen oandauish asnnå ум haggers is going to be another enthusiast'll nosotros outfit detaille, oinkął往t EwanderjNał laj hogy potaноć yão� oinkat go get some investor dollars and figure this out Whitney This company is done. They're not done this month. They're not done this week. They were done three years ago. They didn't have a business plan that was ever going to work. They were delusional. They were optimistic and they were dreamers. They don't have games that people really want. Their games have decreased in value in the secondhand market. Trying to compete with a centaur versus the modern Get your Pinball experience was never going to work Manufacturing in Australia and having to import parts was never going to work Findinging cheap labor over there was never going to work. All of this was never going to work I would love to see Damian's spreadsheet when he thought he could figure all this out for what he was charging for the games And you know probably the hardest thing in all of pinball manufacturing It's not designing or prototyping a game. Really where these companies fall down is they're not manufacturing companies. See that is why Gary Stern always says we are a manufacturing company. To really succeed in any of this you need to have people on the line. You need to make your efficiencies with your manufacturing. If you don't do that you will fail because every month you have to I think the other big mistake they make is they fail to money flipping burgers at McDonald and you think you going to make it And that's the thing and nobody anticipates those things. They think everybody shares their dream. But the problem with all these boutiques is all the equity is just with the founders. Timing and Subtitles by the Amara.org community I'm going to be a manufacturing company first, and they're just not. I hope that we all just come to our senses and call it what it is. N our pun is this最後 game of Pinball Podcast is up. Having tried pinball,ニaney quienes Hard Bakeёлé, Ngr specialized in Pinball. Nor is the You made it your profession and you took people's money and you burned them and now you have to learn a lesson. You don't get invited back to the party. You don't get to roll around pinball shows. You don't get to do podcasts. You don't get to joke. You don't get to laugh. You ruined your own ability to enjoy the hobby you love. And that's the price you pay when you cross over. You know, that is why like I enjoy doing what I do because nobody's going to take this from me. If you people knew some stories that happened recently, people We are trying to take this podcast from me and I will explain that at a later date, but I will just say this. There are people out there that don't want to take accountability for their bad decisions. Instead of correcting those decisions and thinking about a better way to run their company, they are trying to run Kenaida off the airwaves. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. They are all in control of their own destiny and they are not going to get me to stop and they know who they are. I don't even have I'm not going to name names because as I say to everybody, in the end, the numbers don't lie and if the money runs out, you're done. And if your parent company gets tired of losing money and they want to close shop, you're done. And there's just too much other pinball that is working out. There's too many companies that are executing at a high level that we don't need these boutique failures anymore. I still believe that the future of The future of pinball is boutique and it's going to be the successful boutique companies that I think take over pinball. I think Stern is too big. I don't think they're going to be able to sustain this mega factory at these prices. I think the future of pinball is going to be mid-sized boutique. Companies that need to sell just one to two thousand games a year where they nail the theme and they make these games really creative and they give us great value. I think anything else is like mass production of super expensive pinball machines where like half of them are gonna flop and then they're just gonna remake and oversaturate the old titles. It's not gonna work everybody. Happy Tuesday, Kaneda out. For unbiased comments please will use facebook link.