Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 10: We Couldn't Get Neil, But We Got His Dad

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 4m·analyzed·Dec 3, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Free Play Florida tournament recap with tournament structure analysis and comedic travel stories.

Summary

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 10 features Joel, Tom, and Travis discussing their trip to Free Play Florida tournament. Hosts recount humorous airplane incidents, then dive into detailed tournament coverage including qualifying strategies, playoff mechanics, and specific game outcomes from the classics and main tournaments. The episode emphasizes the complexity of pump-and-dump tournament formats and highlights competitive dynamics among well-known pinball players.

Key Claims

  • Free Play Florida had four tournaments total: classics, main, women's, and strikes/losers bracket

    high confidence · Tom and Travis clarify tournament structure; 'There's two tournaments. There's a classics tournament and a main tournament. Technically, there was four.'

  • Travis spent $160 on qualifying entries and played approximately 56 games total

    high confidence · Travis admits: 'I bought $160 worth of entries' which equals 56 plays at $20 for seven plays

  • Tom spent over $200 on qualifying entries

    high confidence · Tom states: 'Probably, I didn't even count, but over $200 worth'

  • Classics tournaments typically feature pre-DMD games; main features DMD and modern games up to Deadpool

    high confidence · Hosts discuss tournament categories: 'Everything pre-DMD' for classics, with main featuring 'Turtles and then Closed Deadpool'

  • Travis qualified tied for second in the main tournament but lost tiebreaker to Neil on Cosmos, dropping him to third seed

    high confidence · Tom explains: 'Travis qualified tied for second with Neil, and he lost his tiebreaker to Neil on a game called Cosmos'

  • Tournament structure allowed low seeds (like Tom at 14th seed) to gain decision-making power in later rounds despite losing earlier

    high confidence · Tom explains reverse-order selection: 'The one that got to decide our fate was old Nils dad, the 14 seed. He got to decide the final game.'

  • Vector is characterized as a poor tournament game choice with complex drop target mechanics

    medium confidence · Travis selected Vector despite hosts saying 'it sucks' multiple times; described as 'all left ramp' with blocking drop targets

  • Swords of Fury was the longest-playing game across all four tournaments and featured rolling games during qualifying

    high confidence · Tom picked Swords of Fury; hosts note 'people rolling this game during qualifying' and it was 'the longest playing game in the entire four tournaments'

Notable Quotes

  • “I bought $160 worth of entries... I made a big boo-boo.”

    Travis @ ~8:30 — Demonstrates Travis's impulsive tournament spending and lack of refund policy, key context for tournament economics

  • “My goal is to make sure this game does not get picked for the rest of the night. And he failed at his goal.”

    Tom (about Travis) @ ~37:00 — Shows competitive playfulness and strategy in game selection; Travis's stated goal didn't materialize

  • “The one that got to decide our fate was old Nils dad, the 14 seed. He got to decide the final game. And I knew that this was going to happen.”

    Travis @ ~45:00 — Reveals frustration with tournament structure where low seeds gain late-game decision power, undermining qualification seeding

  • “If you're a tournament director... The only time that this really works is if you're picking a full bank of games... so the bus driver would pick the bank and they would have choice of position.”

    Tom @ ~50:00 — Tournament structure critique suggesting pre-selected game banks work better than dynamic selection

  • “Your qualifying really didn't mean anything. So even if you were the top seed in your group, you got that first pick. But then after that, it's just you're leaving your fate up to whoever decides to pick what.”

    Tom @ ~51:00 — Fundamental criticism of tournament format undermining seed value and qualification significance

  • “He's very good at using little flippers. Yes. Very familiar in District 82 with them.”

    Tom (about himself on Cosmos) @ ~47:00 — Tom justifies Cosmos selection based on specific game strength; exhibits confidence in niche flipper control skill

  • “I was in an aisle seat... I don't know who saw it behind me, and I don't know who saw it besides me.”

    Travis @ ~3:00 — Recounts airplane embarrassment with adult VR game visible on iPad; humorous community safety reminder

Entities

Free Play FloridaeventTravispersonTompersonJoelpersonNeilpersonJeff TeolispersonAndy RosapersonBob Matthewsperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Competitive pinball players engage in trash talk and mind games during tournament play (Travis's verbal threats on Vector game, Tom selecting Cosmos as strategic counter-pick)

    high · Travis: 'I am going to kick your ass on this game. I was. I told him, you might as well just leave the room.' Tom's Cosmos selection motivated by confidence in small flipper skill

  • ?

    event_signal: Free Play Florida tournament drew competitors from multiple regions including California, New England, and local Florida players; concurrent Pentastic event in Massachusetts split regional participation

    high · Hosts discuss attendance patterns: 'Most of the New England players... stayed up there' at Pentastic while 'California players that came out' attended Free Play Florida

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Mixed acceptance of controversial tournament mechanics; hosts acknowledge rule compliance but express frustration with fairness of system allowing 14th seed to make final-round game selection

    high · Travis: 'I agree with Travis. That is not how it should be. Well, in a herb, you should let the bus driver be the bus driver.' Tom acknowledges 'That was the rules. That was the rules.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Swords of Fury identified as problematically long game in tournament context; games were rolling during qualifying, suggesting need for difficulty adjustment or removal from later rounds

    high · Tom: 'There were people rolling this game during qualifying... They could have removed it, too, from finals.' Joel asked if tournament directors could remove posts between qualifying and playoffs

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.373

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. All right, Tom, you ready? Where's that damn button? Oh, there it is.
0:19
What? Oh, you're supposed to use. Okay. Yeah. Travis, you ready? I am. Who are you texting right now? I, uh, I'm trying to make my phone go on airplane mode to make my voice sound better. What a great intro. Here we go.
0:56
All right. Well, hello, everyone. My name is Joel. We just we already did our introductions. You don't need to hear it again. Yeah. Hello, guys. How's how's everyone doing? Episode 10.
1:12
We did it, Joel. We did it. Doing good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, episode 10. I know we already hit, you know, the major landmark, which is episode five. Appreciate all those emails and just the flood of pats on the back and everything. So, you know, no reason to celebrate episode 10, but, you know, it is. We're in double digits now. So that's, I don't know. I'm excited about that. I think we're killing it. One few weeks at a time. We have no schedule. What are we doing? We're just, I don't know. We're just three guys that like to play pinball. And talk pinball. Yeah, we basically just wait until Tom's like Wednesday Nooks podcast because I think it's Tom. I think he builds and builds and builds and he's ready to burst. He just can't go more than three weeks without talking about pinball. I say stuff.
1:54
Yep. Well, no extra ball this week. We decided just to have a week of catch-up. And there's plenty to catch up on, believe it or not. I know it seems like we're kind of in a pinball news drought. I mean, we're in this weird in-between between now and the end of the year. And really the only thing that's going to happen between now and the end of the year is Stern's probably going to release another game.

“I think it's pro pinball... No, it's a vacation. Yeah, it's the more expensive tournament, though.”

Travis and Joel @ ~10:30 — Distinguishes expensive tournament format ($20 for 7 plays) as distinct from casual pinball; 'vacation' comment reflects cost burden

Derek Price
person
Eric Stone (Johnny Stone)person
Steve Bowdenperson
Sebastian Bobioperson
Shannon Staffordperson
Nick Muellerperson
Fred Richardsonperson
Jeff Palmerperson
Alex Harmonperson
Jasonperson
Vectorgame
Swords of Furygame
Cosmosgame
Freedomgame
Pentasticevent
Triple Drain Pinball Podcastorganization

design_philosophy: Tournament structure critique reveals philosophical problem: reverse-order game selection in playoffs undermines qualifying seeding value, allowing low seeds to gain disproportionate decision-making power

high · Tom's detailed critique: 'If you picking a full bank of games... the bus driver would pick the bank. But with this, it basically made it to where your qualifying really didn't mean anything'

  • $

    market_signal: Pump-and-dump tournament format operates at premium cost ($20 for 7 plays); competitive players expect to spend $160-$280+ on qualifying entries, demonstrating high buy-in barrier

    high · Travis: $160 spent (56 plays), Tom: $200+, unnamed player: $280 with questionable qualification outcome

    • 2:18
    But there's plenty to talk about. between now and then. One thing that happened shortly after we recorded last was the two of you fools got on airplanes and flew to Florida. You both went to Freeplay Florida because you're addicted to Whoppers.
    2:39
    Yeah, tell us all about that. Tom, you go first. The addiction is real, Joel. Well, here. Here's your transition. Speaking of addiction, Travis, you have an interesting story of the flight on the way to Free Sleeve Florida. That's how we're going to transition? Hey, you know, the transitions are natural. They come how they come. You might as well. Speaking of which, Travis, let's hear about your experience with the FlyTherm. You can tell your story and I'll tell mine.
    3:10
    All right, so I'll just keep this short. If you guys listened to the last podcast and you got to the very end of it, Din Din told us about, what was it, some type of game that was an adult game that was a Kickstarter or something like that. Adult VR game. Yes. Right. I think it's like a full-on adult VR game. Like we're talking procreation with ligers and elves. I don't know. I don't know what bullshit this game has. It was in the pornographic genre is what you're talking about. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I was trying to figure out how real this was at the end of our podcast and I was looking at it on my iPad, verifying that we weren't having the piss taken out of us. My problem is, is that was the last time I had my iPad prior to going on the flight. And so, you know, like somebody on a plane that wants to be entertained, I open up my iPad because I'm like, oh, I'm going to study my notes going down there. I want to review our rule sets and all that. And I open it up, and right there, just full frontal on my iPad Pro, is this damn game with everything right there. And I just mortified the person next to me, mortified myself. I thought I was going to get kicked off. I was so embarrassed. Are you aisle seat, middle seat? Where were you at? So what made this even worse, I was in an aisle seat. Okay. So I don't know who saw it behind me, and I don't know who saw it besides me. I know who saw it next to me because the person next to me was taking up half of my chair, so he was going to see it either way. Yeah, it wasn't a pleasant flight. We got to know each other very well. I should have just owned it now I think about it. As soon as he looked at it, I should have just looked at him dead in the eye and just nodded my head and then just gone back to what I was doing. Just waited for a thumbs up or something. But I'm pretty sure the person I was sitting next to probably was the top contributor to this game. So, boy, I don't know. He was probably a happy camper with what he saw. But I was still embarrassed, though. You know, it doesn't it takes a lot to embarrass me. But I have to draw the line at pornographic VR games that tells me about on your iPad on an airplane. And then the best part was the beginning of the flight, too. So the guy had to sit next to you. Yeah, we were the whole time. Yeah, we were just taking off, and everybody was probably looking at me like, wow, this guy. That guy. This guy right here.
    5:46
    Yeah. Little did we know. Yeah. I just wanted to review over pinball rule sets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lesson learned. People always check your internet and always check your iPad browsers. Yes. What is it? Then they glance over and see your notes, and they see what, like soft plunge and whatever. You know, it's actually pretty hilarious. Whenever I'm on the road, I always have pinball videos up just so I can remind myself of what I'm seeing, kind of like draw out a plan. Okay. And I'll always put it on my iPad and I'll set it in front of me. And everybody always stares at it. They'll stop what they're doing. And I swear, more times than not, I'll get somebody saying, I didn't even know pinball was still around. Or, oh, I didn't even know that this was a thing. I mean, that's the cool part. You see a lot of people that aren't familiar with it. So, yeah, I mean, sometimes I accidentally show off VR porn games, and other times I spread the joy of people around the people. It's one or the other. How would you rate the game, Travis?
    6:48
    It leaves a lot to be desired. They didn't have all the animal types that you were open for. The demo did not work out so well. Oh, boy. I'm good. So what's bad is I said, hey, Travis, I'm going to bring up your airplane story on the podcast. And Travis goes, well, if I have to share my story, Tom has to share his. So, Tom, I don't even know yours. What is going on with you two?
    7:14
    This is worse. Before we left for Florida, I had downloaded a show off of Netflix. And I remember saying to Travis, like, I don't even know what's on my iPad. Like, I just know I downloaded a show for the plane. So it ended up being The Witcher. Oh. Have you seen it? It's a great show. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
    7:40
    There's some very brutal murder and some, you know, some skin for sure. There's a lot of skin, a lot of fighting. A lot of dangling skin, which is that way. Yes. so like literally I'm sitting there watching minding my own business in the aisle and all of a sudden there's this five year old or six year old girl right next to me waiting in line to go to the bathroom so much worse than mine we're going down a dark path right now and you know there's all this like So just this, luckily it wasn't a skin part of the show, but there was some pretty gory battle going on.
    8:37
    And her eyes lit up? I was a little embarrassed by that. I had to kind of turn it away. Wow. Well done. Yeah, luckily mom wasn't looking at the iPad at the time. How dare you. Yeah. So the moral of the story for both of you guys, right, is anybody that's listening to this podcast, just before you get on a plane, look at what's on your iPad before you turn it on. That's what I'm hearing, you know. I don't know. I'm proud to call you guys podcasting partners.
    9:12
    Dang right. So that's your flight there. Both of you almost got kicked off and then you get to Freeplay Florida. So we're going right into tournament talk. I know some people probably fast-forward this. Other people, this is what they love to eat up. But you guys were all in for those Whoppers. So, yeah, why don't you take it away. Tell me about your few days in Florida. Well, I'll tell you about our few days in Florida. Where do we start at? Where do you think we should start? Try the beginning.
    9:41
    Jeff Teala's getting butter spilled on him at Red Lobster. That was hilarious. There's a good spot to start. Well, apparently Canadians cannot handle their butter at seafood restaurants. That was a sight to be seen.
    9:57
    And that was Free Play Florida. All right, what was our next? Well, we could start with classics. How many tournaments? How many tournaments were there? There's two tournaments. There's a classics tournament and a main tournament. Technically, there was four. There are four tournaments. But we participated in two. Okay. There's also a women's tournament, which clearly we cannot compete in. Clearly. Right. This is not a super series with six tournaments. This is just two. No, and then there was a strikes tournament for all the losers to play in, and that's what Teolas won the losers tournament. Ah, I got you. So, yeah. That's why he showed up. Okay. So great job there, Jeff. Yeah, so they had a main, a classics, and then during main finals, for those that didn't make main finals, they had a strikes tournament going on at the same time. I think it was like a three strikes tournament or something like that. Yep. Gotcha. And so, once again, for anybody new listening, classics are typically it's defined what? Everything pre-DMD? Yeah. Typically, yes. Yeah. So pre-DMD, dot matrix display, any game before that. No, EMs count in classics, right? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Where else would you have them at, Joel? I don't know. EMs. I mean, they have their own category on Pinside. Just who cares, right? I mean, that's... The EM tournament? Yeah, the EM tournament. Yeah.
    11:20
    So, classics tournament and then everything DMD and modern, all the way up to modern. So, what was the most modern game you played? Was there Godzilla? I mean, is that the latest game? Are you talking about the most modern game in classics or the most modern game in Maine? In Maine. Is that what it's called? Yes. I guess.
    11:38
    Yeah, it'd be Turtles. Turtles and then Closed Deadpool. Okay. All right. So Classics, which was first? Classics, I assume?
    11:47
    Well, they run simultaneously for qualifying, but Classics gets done sooner, and then they have the finals or the playoffs going on towards the end of qualifying for main. Got it. Okay. And it's a pump and dump, too. So you're basically just playing a single-player game, trying to get the highest score possible on the game with a lot of amount of time. So you can play and play and play and play and play. Yeah. If you wanted to, you could buy as many as you wanted. If you have the bankroll, you can go at it. How much does it cost to play the game? It was $20 for seven plays. Oh, okay. So it's not like a dollar a play. It costs money. Joel, this is pro pinball. This is why I'm asking the questions, you know. I think it's pro pinball. Is that what they call it, Tom? I don't even know. I don't think so. It's a vacation. Yeah, it's the more expensive tournament, though, because it is. I mean, seven plays for $20, you have to make them count. So how many plays did you do, Travis? So I made the mistake early on. I got in line, and I just decided I did not want to get in line anymore, and I wasn't thinking. And I bought $160 worth of entries. What? At front. What? Yeah, $160. Say what? Because usually what I like to do is I like to qualify as quickly as possible. Can you go ahead and do the math for us real quick and tell us how many entries that is? Oklahoma math people, here we go. It was a lot. A lot. Good answer. How many was that? Seven. 160. Five. Six. Yeah. I think it was like 40-something, right? Isn't it eight times seven? 56? Is that what it was? It was legitimately, it was about 42 many. Like I made a boo-boo. I made a big boo-boo. Let me guess, you can't ask for a refund on those? Nope.
    13:55
    Nice job. So here's what's hilarious about it. I usually never do that. I only get about $40 starting out, and then I judge. But right here, I just decided I didn't want to mess with it, and I just went ahead and just paid it up front. I'm like, this is going to be a couple of days. It'll be fine. And, yeah, all of a sudden I played about 20 entries, and I realized, well, I'm qualified for both. I don't think I'm going to drop too much. What do I do now? So, yeah, I kind of – I add that up. Sorry, but how do you – like, okay, so pumping up, right? So let's say you said there's a Turtles there. Well, if every single person plays Turtles, let's say, Travis, you play Turtles. You put up a score you're proud of. you think's high, theoretically, people could continually put up higher scores than that, right, at any moment? And then could you ever get kicked out of qualifications, or they, like, set a score that you have to hit to qualify?
    14:46
    No, we're all playing against each other. So I think the scoring, was it 100, 97, 95? I can't remember what the decay was. I think it was 98, 96. Yeah, you're right. But your position of qualifying could change at any moment. Yeah, it's going to be dynamic. Yeah, yeah. But you said you played 20 games. You're like, I've already qualified. And you're saying already after 20 games you're confident enough that your score on those 20 games is high enough to keep you where you want to be. Or you're good enough is what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, yeah, because basically I accidentally overestimated or underestimated myself. I think I did both at the same time. I don't know. Life is hard, Travis. Joel, here's what I blame. I had a couple of beers with Tom before we walked in there, and that's what I blame. I didn't have any beers. Yeah. I had a couple of beers. Excuse me. Tom, how many entries did you buy?
    15:47
    Probably, I didn't even count, but over $200 worth. Oh, for real? Yeah. Yeah, that's the norm. See, this is new to me. Okay, so that's a lot of pinball, though. We're not Keith Elwin, Joel. Yeah, there it is. You're bragging about 45-minute games, and we keep giving you a hard time. But you're saying, Travis, you bought $160 worth of pinball, and you were happy after 20 games. Correct. And Tom just said he paid over $200 worth of pinball. Yeah. And that's a lot of games. I mean, I don't know. It's just – what's your time span here? Because I know – what was it at Expo, the tournament there, if you entered the tournament, you had 12 games. I think it was 12. Yeah, you could play 12 times. That was it. And you had to enter in six of the scores. It was something like that. So I always thought you had, like, less than 20 attempts to do something. But you're saying this pump and dump. Right. That's a limit of hurt. Yeah. So to be honest with you, I ended up having to – I played all 56 of what I had. But legitimately, I didn't really have to use my plays until the very end because I did need to use it for main in order to go from – I got knocked out of the bye. So I was like ninth, and I had to play a couple last second to qualify to get a bye for playoffs. So I still ended up using my full 56, but in all reality, I probably could have stopped around 30 or so, which looking back on it, knowing what happened during finals in terms of how the bus driver worked, I probably would have stopped knowing now. I mean, we could talk about that in a few, but I mean, that's typically – I'm learning something. Well, there's a lot of people that do over 100 entries. I mean, I know somebody down there that they spent $280 on entries. and I hope they qualified.
    17:53
    I don't think they did. Nope. Okay. I don't think they did. So, I mean, there's this ongoing theory with a lot of people that aren't too familiar with pump and dumps that you can just buy your way into finals. And so that could be true for maybe one to three people, but legitimately the majority of the time the people that make finals at these things, they're legitimate pinball players. They can play pretty well, and it's a lot of jockeying for position. It's a lot of trying to get buys when you have 24 players and you want to be in that top eight because you don't want to be in that last 16 because that basically guarantees you more points and a better opportunity to make or to go further in the tournament. So you said you used all your plays. So you said you had qualified, but you realized you were right on the cusp of top eight. So you went ahead and played more to get yourself to push yourself up there and get a buy? Yeah, I got pretty lucky. I actually had the very last play of the entire time in Maine qualifying, and I got in with like 20 seconds left on Beatles before it was going to be done. I ended up putting up like seven and a half million or something like that to get second place on the game. And that took me up to tied for first. Wow. In Maine. Yeah. So fill me in on who's – so obviously we know, I mean, both of you guys qualified for both tournaments, right? And then Neil, I'm assuming, Tom, your son was there.
    19:15
    So who qualified where? I'm Neil's dad. Well, true. Yeah, yeah, of course. So Neil really brought you.
    19:21
    So who ended up where? And who else do we know? Like people on the show. Was Raymond there? Raymond Davidson, was he there? No, he was at Pentastic. He was too scared to come down to pre-play. Yeah, he went up to Pentastic. Yeah, he knew better. He's on his computer right now going, what? Did I just hear that? Well, we were split up because Pentastic had an event going on at the same time, and they're typically a large event also up in Massachusetts. So most of the New England players, I say most, I think they all pretty much stayed up there, and then there was a lot of players from that region. Whereas down in Freeplay, there was a lot of players from down there, and then a few of us spread out because there was a few California players that came out also. So, like, Carl? Carl D'Angelo? I'm trying to think of people. No, he didn't show up. Derek Price did. Okay. And then the weatherman, Eric Stone, is that his name? Yeah, Johnny was there. Stone did not play. He had to work. But he showed up every now and again, though, when he could, hanging out. But Andy Rosa was there. Steve Bowden. He has a son. Andy Rosa has a son. Bob Matthews. Yeah, little Rosa was not there, though. Yeah, Bob Matthews. Jeff Teolas. Who else? Jeff Teolas from Canada. Now that they let him in, he just never wants to go home is what it sounds like. He's everywhere.
    20:40
    Who else was there? Jason was there. Yeah. Yeah, and Alex Harmon. I mean, yeah, there were some excellent players. Fred Richardson, he was there. And, of course, there's some good ones, too, down in Florida. I think there's Sebastian Bobio. He was a good player. Shannon Stafford. You said you tied for first. Jeff Palmer is another good one.
    21:02
    Yeah. You tied for first. I just assumed the turnout was kind of slim or something. I fought my way into finals. That's what it was. Nick Mueller as well. Yeah, Nick Mueller. Yep. So you get in. So you qualify. So we don't have to go game by game or anything.
    21:19
    We can talk about classics if you want to. There's somebody on this podcast that's a total asshole, and I don't want to name names or anything. The one time I beat Travis, I'm an asshole.
    21:33
    Well, let's hear it. What happened? Where were you? What place are you fighting for? What game are you playing? I'll let Neil's dad tell the story, and then I'll interject when I realize that he's off in the woods. So I was tied for 10th place, Joel, with five other people. And we had a playoff on this game called Freedom, which is an EM game. But anyways, I ended up taking last on that tiebreaker, and that put me in with Travis's group. Okay. So in the first round, we'll go game by game real quick. Wait, did that put you in Travis who Travis was above you? Travis qualified tied for second with Neil, and he lost his tiebreaker to Neil on a game called Cosmos. Right. We played Cosmos. Yeah, we played Cosmos, and we were just kind of fooling around because we were like, okay, we're already running late. Classics was about 45 minutes behind at this point. We had to do a tiebreaker. So Neil and I were like, let's just do the quickest game possible. I had choice since I won the coin flip. So I picked Cosmos because I'm like, you know, I could either be an a-hole, we could do Swords of Fury, and him and I can play for an hour straight and just hold up the whole thing, or we can go as quick as possible. What I didn't know was is apparently there was a five-way dogfight on Freedom at the same time, and we ended up having to wait another 30 minutes anyways. But, yes, I ended up losing to Neil on a tiebreaker, so that dropped me down to the third seed overall. So third place, but you're saying because Tom lost, he, like, the way the seeds worked out, it was supposed to be low-ranked Tom versus high-ranked Travis. Right, because it was 3-6-11-14 in the seed. And so little Tom Graff was the 14th seed in our group. That's me. Yep.
    23:31
    All right. So tell me what happened, Tom. Okay. So Travis had first pick. So he picked the game Vector. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And Travis, you know, he's talking smack. He's like, I am going to kick your ass on this game. I was. I told him, you might as well just leave the room. That's up like $2 billion. Vector's the game that tracks your speed, right? Or like how many, isn't there a display on the game that does something like that? It's pretty much, I'd say, all left ramp. But there's these drop targets that block the left ramp. And if you get up the left ramp, you'll lock a ball. And you want to lock three balls, start multi-ball. But you can also spell hype in the middle of the play field, and that'll release balls. But you have to hit them in order. You have to spell hype in order. Gotcha. You know, left to right. And the drop targets, you want to drop them down in sequential order, too. Otherwise, another drop target bank will lift up even closer to your flippers in front of the left ramp. So I've always heard this game kind of sucks, but this, I don't know, sounds kind of cool. Oh, it does. It sucks. No, it sucks. No. Neil's dad, no, it sucks. It's a horrible game. I don't know why I picked it. You picked it. Okay. All right. But here's why I picked it, though. Before we go on, I picked it because group one picked Pharaoh, which would have been one of my picks. And then group two, Nil, picked Swords of Fury, which would have been one of my picks. Yes. So I was just like, crap, I don't want to play 8-Ball. How many games were that 8-Ball there?
    25:12
    Yeah. There was six, I think. Was it? Seven? Six games? Yeah, there's never many in Classics. because it's usually only top four. Okay.
    25:23
    So my choices were pretty slim at that point. And you were ready to annihilate Tom. Yeah, exactly. So let's hear it all. Go ahead and know, Dad.
    25:34
    Well, to make a long story short, Travis ended up taking last on the game, and I took first. Well done. Thanks. Yes, it was a great game. I had over a million, which I did not even have during qualifying.
    25:54
    But Travis did set me up for some balls locked and everything. Oh, so there's like a lock stealing. Yes, and everybody had fun stealing my balls continuously all game long. I may have to look into this game. Thank you to Sebastian, Eric, and Neil's dad for that. I appreciate it, guys. My wife loves TNA just because of the lock stealing. So maybe I need to look for more games to have this. So, okay, so you picked Vector, poor decision. So what did that do? So you were the third seed. You just lost to the 14th seed, right? Did it kick you out? Well, it's three games around, and the way they had the whole tournament structured was that the person that took last got first pick of either their game or position, and then it went from fourth person to third person to second person to first person. So this was a weird scenario. So we're all thinking Travis is going to pick the game. Well, he picks his position, and then the next person picks their position, and then the next person picked their position. So I was standing there like, well, I'm going first, and I get to pick the game. so I decided which wasn't a popular decision to pick Swords of Fury because I picked Vector again right no you can't pick the same game in the same round again got it okay so I picked up pick Swords of Fury which was the longest playing game in the entire four tournaments that were going on there okay all right so do you know how to play Swords of Fury not competitively no I don't Even casually, do you know the strategy? Isn't it? It's all multi-ball, right, or no? Yeah. It's like left orbit until you go blind or you get a cramp and you can't flip any longer. Got it. Okay. Yep. Now, there were people rolling this game during qualifying. Wow. And correct me if I'm wrong. This is a dumb question, but, like, you can't – if in qualification they realize, like, wow, people are – this is way too long. They can't just – between qualifying and main play, they can't remove a post or do something to make the game harder? So you could during, like, after qualifying is over, you could do something to it before the playoffs start. I guess you could technically do that, but it wasn't done. Let's put it that way. They could have removed it, too, from finals. That's true, too. I told Tom as soon as he picked it, I said, my goal is to make sure this game does not get played for the rest of the night. And he failed at his goal, but you did do well on the game. My game is for this not to get picked, and Tom picks it. You did win it, correct? Yeah, I had 8.1 or 8.2 million after two balls. Yeah, and I ended up having the worst game on it, because I think I played it twice, maybe three times during qualifying, And I had pretty good games.
    29:10
    But, yeah, I didn't have one during the playoffs. Okay. But I ended up taking last. And actually our group, I think we were all at three after the two games. So we're all tied. So it's basically a wash, yeah, at that point. Yep. First two games are a wash. Now I took last on that game, so I had pick. And this is where Travis will hate me for the rest of my life. See, this is where the crazy shit happens, Joel. How did you get? Exactly. Thank you. Even Joel's like, what? So the way that they did this, it was driving me crazy because I didn't realize they were going to do this until I was down there. So the way that they had this is that even if you're a bus driver, meaning you were the top seed in your group, you were only the bus driver for the very first game. And then every game after that, it was decided in reverse order. So you basically, if you took last, you got choice of game or position on the next game. So I was in it. The way it panned out is we all got put in a position to where we're all tied up. Yet the one that got to decide our fate was old Nils dad, the 14 seed. He got to decide the final game. And I knew that this was going to happen. I was just playing by the rules. Yeah, I know. It is what it is. That was the rules. But we were all talking about it. We were like, son of a – we all knew something like this was going to happen. But I agree with Travis. That is not how it should be. Well, in a herb, you should let the bus driver be the bus driver. The only time that that works to where – if you're a tournament director out there and you're thinking about running something like this, The only time that this really works in my opinion is if you picking a full bank of games of three or four games So at Pemburg they would do that to where the bus driver would pick the bank and they would have choice of position the very first game and then after that it would be reverse order finish, getting to choose the position. Right. And so that makes sense because all the games are already picked out by the bus driver. But with this, it basically made it to where your qualifying really didn't mean anything. So even if you were the top senior group, you got that first pick, But then after that, it's just you're leaving your fate up to whoever decides to pick what in the next game. Interesting. Okay. And that game. In the next game, yes. Was Cosmos.
    31:44
    And if you don't know what Cosmos is, go ahead right now, look it up on Google, Cosmos pinball, and now you see what type of a-hole I'm dealing with here.
    31:55
    So what was your thought process there, Tom, picking Cosmos? The reason I picked it was because I was number three in qualifying on it. And I felt really good on that game.
    32:10
    He's very good at using little flippers. Yes. Very familiar in District 82 with them. And their zipper flippers, which is pretty cool.
    32:20
    Yeah, it's awesome. So, yeah, judging by your tone, I think Tom did well at this, and Travis, you did not. Tom annihilated it. He had, I think, 1,200 points after ball one or somewhere right around there. Something like that. Which is just absolutely outstanding. The funniest thing was everybody came up to us before we started our game, Teolis, Andy Rosa, and they're like, who the hell picked this game?
    32:51
    And I'm like, right here. Yep. Right here. Well done. So it paid off for you. It did pay off. It didn't pay off in the second round, but it paid off. But everybody was even at three, and how did we end up then? Did that kick you out, Travis? Well, so what happened in the game, I actually don't have anybody to blame but myself because I was down at one point by about 1,000, I think, to player – I say player two. It was Sebastian. Right, because I had about 300 or 400 points my first ball. I think he had like 600 or 700, and he built up a pretty good lead. And so I had to grind my way back. I had a good ball three, I think. But what I messed up on, the way that it worked is you hit one of the mushroom targets, and it would light a saucer collect up top, which is basically, if you're thinking of it like a clock, it's at 11 p.m. basically, somewhere up there, up in the upper corner. And it's hard to hit, but I had an opportunity to hit it three or four times, and I just could not get control. I couldn't get it. And, I mean, that one shot right there would have been enough to get me over the top because I think I ended up losing second place by 88 points. Yeah, it was 88 points total. So I think second place had 2,300 even, and I had 2,212 looking at it. And Tom had 2,812. So no one to blame but me and a little bit of Tom, but mostly me. So what does that mean? Does that mean you're out, you're kicked out? Yes, Joel. I was done. I was 11th place. Joel, here's the thing. In classics, I've gotten to where I can qualify high. I did this at Cleapen to where I was the one seed overall there. But yet, for whatever reason, I think five straight classics tournaments, I've been eliminated in the first round or in my first round, even after a bye. So if you want a guaranteed win, just be in my group for classics, and you'll pretty much get through. Because I find ways to, yeah, to blow it up. Yeah. Well done. So we're. Thank you. So 11th place, so I'm assuming no money. No money for you. No, I think I got 75 or 85, something like that. Oh. Yeah. It wasn't bad. How many people were in that tournament? A hundred and 20 something. Still. Okay. 125. I don't know. It usually has a pretty good amount. It might have been 105. There was only 90 in the classics. Oh, really? Oh, I'm thinking Maine. Never mind. Yeah, the Maine was, or there was more. So, Tom, where did you and Neil end up in the tournament? So I ended up, I wasn't in Neil's group. I was in Andy Rosa and Sebastian's group. They ended up beating me and moving on. The funny thing was the whole thing was streamed, and, like, I played terrible. uh so i yeah so i i got eliminated neil was playing phenomenal and uh he ended up in the finals um it was andy rosa sebastian and alex marino and neil and alex were tied for first after the three games and finals. And then Neil had pick, and he picked Swords of Fury at, what, 1 o'clock in the morning, Travis? It was late, but, hey, I had two beers in my hand, so I was all for it.
    36:27
    And then Neil crushed Swords of Fury, and the rest is history. So he won it. He ended up winning classics. And it was, like, his birthday, wasn't it? It was his birthday. Well, technically not at that time. But the day of, yeah. That's fantastic. So he was totally on a high from that, yeah. That's awesome. Well, congrats to Neil. Maybe we once again should get him on the podcast, but too busy apparently. You know, he's the classics winner. He can't waste his time here.
    37:01
    All right, so that's classics. So Modern then, were you a little more successful there, Travis, in Modern?
    37:08
    Oh, yeah. I got back in Neil's dad. Okay, let's hear it. It was like Revenge of the Sith, Empire Strikes Back.
    37:18
    Again, Travis and I played another series in the playoffs. And who picked what, and what was the outcome? Well, I'm trying to remember. So, Tom, you had – I forget, did you have a bye, or did you have to play in the first round? No, I had to play in the first round. Okay. So what games did you have to play? Obviously you won. Yeah. I won my Turtles game. I came in third on TNA, and then I won my Beatles game. Okay. I remember that now. That was the one I came back on ball three. Right. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. That was a good game. And then, yeah, so we ended up being matched up in quarterfinals, and I think it was Johnny,
    38:04
    is it Kaylee? Kaylee. Is that how you pronounce it? Kaylee. Kaylee Campbell. And then, yeah, Kaylee Campbell from North Carolina. Yes, I believe. I think that's where she's from. And then, of course, Neil's dad, you know. So we played, what did we play? We played Beatles. You picked Beatles. And I got to pick that. And I had a really good ball one. I had like 3.8 million or something like that. And then ball two and three, I just forgot how to play pinball completely. And ended with 4.9, but somehow that held up. You got to watch those iPad videos between rounds. Well, funny story. So I was asking a couple of people. I was like, hey, what's the line on this game? Because I didn't know the rule set really that well. I'd only played it a couple of times up until free play. And so I asked Ray. I'm like, hey, you know, what's a good way to get a lot of points on this game? To blow it up. Wizard mode. Right. That's what he replied back. He's like, it's a wizard mode. Wow. Like, oh, great. Okay. Well, I'll just try that then.
    39:04
    But, yeah, we ended up playing Beatles. And then so Neil's dad ended up being in a position. So we were in a very familiar position here, just kind of what we did in classics. So he got to pick the second game. Because it took last on Beatles. And what game did you pick? Radical. Radical, yep. Which was another game I felt really confident and comfortable on.
    39:32
    Until I played that game. it was crazy so all four of us in qualifying i think we all had above 12 or 13 million on it in qualifying and i only played it a couple times so i felt really good on it i had 41 million on it in qualifying yeah tom just annihilated it and i think was it so did johnny have the 40 million or was that andy rosa that for somebody had 40 million i know bowden had 43 he had a big score maybe johnny had like 15 to 18. Anyway, so everybody was doing pretty well on this Radical, and it had the ROM on it, of course, to where it makes it to where your jackpot's worth $4 million or whatever that's called. So we ended up playing it, and lo and behold, we probably had one of the grossest Radical games in the history of competitive pinball. It was terrible. Nobody got the multiball. We were all really bricking shots. We all tried to get dialed in on certain shots and just made dumb decisions, like all of us across the board. And I think somehow Kaylee ended up winning it. Right, with 4.4 million. And I squeaked out a second place with 3.9 million, about 100,000 ahead of Johnny. And pretty much all Johnny needed to do was hit one shot, and he would have been fine. And that would have changed things up a little bit. It was a comedy of errors, that game, pretty much. so at this point I'm pretty much out of it okay oh yeah and then that's when we went to Deadpool next wasn't it yes and I forget did you pick that or did you I picked it okay so yeah he picked Deadpool and then I remember that Kaylee absolutely blew it up the round before was it the round before or was it on ours she had like 900 million on it right but on ours she had above 500 million after ball one oh yes and then that's when light gate happened oh yeah so i got up i was player three yeah i was player three and i get up there and as soon as i plunge my ball i try for the super skill shot which is into the katana shot the lock right and all of a sudden the lights go out in the room and i can't see anything i'm just like what is going on. I can't see the ball. I don't know where it's at. It was like disco multi-ball happened. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was horrible. The lights went on and off, and it's like somebody was hitting the switch. And next thing I know, I can't see the ball, and my turn's over. And I look up, I have 80,000 points after bonus. I'm just like, what in the world? And this is a crucial game because I have five points. Johnny has three, and Kaylee has four. So, I mean, this game meant something for us to move on to the next round, and they ended up declaring it, I guess, I forget. I think that they gave me a compensation ball. It was really weird because I really wanted a ball four added on because I wanted my weapons progress because, as it was, I was going to play balls two and three and then have to start a new game. And, of course, everybody's kind of consoling me and saying, well, you get to play two little Deadpools, but I'm like, I don't care about the little Deadpool. I want my weapons because that's where a lot of the points are at. Yeah. You know, but got lucky, just played two more balls, and I think I ended up with like $255 million, and that was enough to get me through. So you won it even though you – so you were good. It took a second, but it was enough to get through, yeah. That's great.
    43:15
    So, Tom, you were the one over there flipping the switch, I assume. No, I wasn't. Okay. All right. So you got through. So where did we end up then? So what was the end result with Vaughn? So long story short, because I know we're kind of getting a little long with this, I ended up getting through semifinals, got the finals, and ended up tying for third. Nice. Yeah, I tied for third, and then I won a tiebreaker. So I ended up winning third outright. And so Tom and Neil were one and two, I assume?
    43:46
    No. No, actually. Andy Rosa was one. Derek Price was two. and Kaylee took fourth. Okay. See, the two people that knocked me out took third and fourth in the tournament. Where did you end up, Tom?
    44:01
    Tied for 15th because of my poor play in the second round. And Neil? Neil did not make it. So he was still too buzzed from winning classics. Yeah. When Classics finals started, I was like 12th in qualifying for Maine, and Neil was like 22nd, and then it's top 24. And Neil just bled out because he was playing the Classics finals the whole time. Yeah, he committed to that. Okay. Yeah. Well, all I can think of is, one, I know I watched a tournament once where Andy Rosa wore a headlamp the whole time. So, Travis, you should probably invest in a headlamp. Then the light on, light off problem, no big deal. There you go. Yeah, problem solved. Wow, Tom is showing his headlamp. Of course you would have a headlamp. Yeah. Of course.
    44:52
    But, yeah, we talked about this in our pre-production meeting. First off, we're like, oh, free play Florida. We'll talk about that for about 15 minutes. Whatever, 35 minutes later, here we are. Sorry, everybody. No, I think it's great. I think that's – there's a lot of tournament talk, and I've listened to many podcasts, and I'm not a tournament player. But for one thing, we've already, you know, the tournament talk podcast out there, Final Round Pinball, I think we just talked more tournament talk in the last 30 minutes than Final Round has talked about in about a year and a half. But they talk about, they throw out all these words all the time. And I don't know. Hopefully, I learned something today. So that was good. And I also heard, yeah, that Tom's a dick. and apparently Cosmos is not the game to play if you want to still have friends. I've got to find one of those. If you have one for sale, hit me up. Yeah, and Travis apparently needs to buy a Vector so he can actually back up his trash talk. I will never stop talking trash. Got it. Okay. Well, speaking of trash, this is a terrible transition. No, trash.
    46:00
    Tom, recently you sold two pinball machines. and you bought a pinball machine. And Travis happened to also buy the same pinball machine. So on the count of three, go ahead and say the machine at the same time and in unison it will be really cute. You know, one, two, three.
    46:21
    Thunderbirds. You got it. Speaking of Thunderbirds, apparently we actually had somebody emailed, what, Tom, was it? Somebody emailed one of you and said they were a little upset about our Thunderbirds conversation last round because they actually liked the game. So I thought that was funny. It was David Dennis. Oh, okay. Yeah. Anyway, so Beatles. Beatles, yes. You both played Beatles. Travis, you said you had not played Beatles much before Free Play Florida. What was it about playing it at Free Play Florida that made you say, I actually want to buy this thing? It was just, it's a fun tournament game. I mean, the rule set is pretty simple, but yet it's something that's challenging. It's easy to learn, hard to master. So it's something that you have to put together. I mean, it's just hearing the music, seeing the sounds. I like the shots because it's kind of like Sea Witch with some small nuances to it now thanks to, I think it was George Gomez that made some of the changes. And I think who's on software? I think it's Dean Grover that's on software. So I'm very impressed with how the game played overall, and I was just pleasantly surprised. I had less than five games on it total before free play, and I just found myself taking extra plays on it during the tournament just because I just felt like playing it. Like I wasn't even trying to get a high score. I was just having a good time. And then it was funny because at the very end of the tournament was when we could actually hear the sound. So I ended up picking it as the very last game to play just because I wanted to hear the sound. I was already out of the tournament, but I wanted to hear what it actually sounded like, and I was pleasantly surprised. It sounds like Beatles songs. Yeah, it was definitely Beatles songs on the Beatles. Yep. Nice. And, Tom, what was it? Was it just, oh, Travis is getting one, so I want to get one, too? Is that right? No, actually, I contacted Travis about it, and he's like, I'm getting one, too. But pretty much... We were just like, have we just become best friends? I can't believe this. Yep. Joel, are you getting a Beatles? No. You don't want me in your friend group. You know, he told me.
    48:27
    Yeah, pretty much the same... You're not a tournament player. Pretty much the same reasons Travis said. I mean, it is a really good tournament game. And, I mean, I kind of discovered it really at Expo that it was good.
    48:40
    But I know Travis wasn't there. But, you know, just having it in the last two tournaments really turned my head around to it. Interesting. Well, all your tournament players out there, I mean, it sounds like if this is a surprise to you, Apparently give Beatles a shot. I know Raymond just recently bought, Raymond Davidson bought himself number one pinball player in the world. He just bought himself a Beatles for Tad at home. And, yeah, there's a lot of love. From what I've heard, I think Beatles would have sold way more if the price wasn't where it's at because it is a pricey pin.
    49:18
    With that said, all pins are getting to be that price, so maybe not so much anymore. Good observation there, Joel. Nothing's getting by you today. I am quick.
    49:29
    But, yeah, so, Tom, for you to buy a game, I know your basement's filled. So for you to buy a game, you typically have to sell a game. And I see you've sold two games recently. Well, I sold two because Godzilla came and, you know, two things had to go, basically. Sure. And what I think is interesting is when I look at the two pins you sold, they kind of in my mind kind of matched two games you bought so you just bought a Beatles so the game you sold that is very similar to Beatles is actually in my mind TNA you sold your TNA music pin, single level pin quick comparison there I mean why did you sell TNA? I mean I really like TNA but you know I've had it for what four years and I pretty much know the game backwards and forwards. So I just didn't see the reason to keep it around anymore. Okay. And, yeah. Makes sense.
    50:36
    But the surprising thing here is the other pin you sold. And the reason I want to – what I'm going to say here is we're going to transition to our current view of the top ten pin side list. and this is actually a very unique situation because all of us have played Godzilla Tom owns Godzilla LE of course, elitist, and I am currently borrowing a Godzilla Pro and Travis is playing the heck out of the Godzilla that he has near him and it's we all are in love with this game is incredible and if you look at the Penn State Top 100 as of November 29th Godzilla's number one. That's not unheard of. Most new games, you know, the LE buyers, Tom being one of them, is quick to like 10 out of 10 in every category. This is the best thing that's ever happened ever. So it's not uncommon for the newest game out to be the number one game. But what I would like to discuss is the number two game. Well, what normally is sitting at number one is Medieval Madness. And it always seems like brand new pin comes out, boom, number one. And then Medieval Madness replaces it. medieval madness always ends up back at the top. And what I would like to discuss is, in my opinion, I think Godzilla could dethrone medieval madness as number one. And what's an interesting situation is, Tom, you just got your Godzilla LE, and the game that you just sold happens to be medieval madness.
    52:08
    So why, Tom, why was medieval madness the other game you sold? You know, again, I've had it for so long. I probably had it since like 2008, 2009. So I've had it a long time.
    52:23
    And I, of course, back then I swore, no, I'm never getting rid of this game, you know, kind of thing. And honestly, it just wasn't resonating with me anymore.
    52:37
    I was just sitting there. so you know i i got tired of beating on the castle door and you know blowing up castles um do i think it's a really good game i i still do uh but i've i just have my fill of it you know uh and new stuff's coming in and you know code wise on these newer games there's just so much more to do on them. And being in the home environment, I just, you know, you look at Medieval Madness, you look at Godzilla, and something had to go. You know, certainly I could have sold some other games in my collection, but there's other stuff I wanted to keep around. I think that's a fair statement. I don't know, I just, I thought that was really unique, because in my mind, I ask myself, I ask, why is Medieval Madness number one? And maybe before I give my explanation, oh, Travis, I was about to go to Travis, but Travis gave me the finger and I had to go get another Mountain Dew.
    53:46
    Well, sure. Tom, why do you think, why is it that Medieval Madness has reigned supreme at the top of the list? What is it about that game that keeps it at number one? It's a cool game. I mean, you have the castle for one thing. I mean, it's probably one of the best toys in pinball. You know, you got the gate in front of the castle, and then you have the, well, you have the drawbridge. Yeah, yeah. And then you have the gate. And then, you know, shooting in there, the castle explodes. It's an awesome toy.
    54:19
    And then the humor of the game is fantastic. So Travis apparently forgot how to sit on a chair. I think I just broke my chair. Oh, Lord. He just broke it. He got it. I don't know why you were laughing. Oh, Diet Mountain. I thought he was laughing at me. No, I accidentally snapped my arm to my chair and I fell off. Oh, wow. Okay, we're good. We're good. Sorry, guys. Once again, reasons why we need to have video. But, Tom, okay, so maybe let's see if, Travis, you can add anything to this. The question is, why is Medieval Madness or why has Medieval Madness reigned supreme at number one for so long? And Tom said it has probably one of the best toys ever and humor. Yes? Yep. Is that it? Well, that and it's easy to play. I mean, you can make it super hard by laxing it down and getting the pitch higher. But overall, I mean, it's one of those games to where, again, you can explain the rule set in 30 seconds and you can tell somebody brand new if they come up to the pen, you're just like, hey, shoot it up the middle. Yep. Hit the castle all day long, catch it, and hit some other shots, and eventually you'll start some multiballs. I mean, that's really the crux of the whole rule set on that, is if you hit the same shot multiple times, then you'll light a multiball at that saucer or whatever you want to call it. So something like that, it's just easy for new players to understand. And when they can make something happen in the game that's very noticeable, I mean, that draws a lot of people in. And that's just how pinball is. So here's my argument, right? So if we look at Godzilla and we ignore almost all the game, like if we focus only entirely on the building, the building, like Godzilla has the rules of Godzilla is absurd, and it's only going to get better. There are so many different multiballs. There are so many unique shots in that game. And that's awesome for us pinball people. But if we look from a novice level and we look only at that building, You just said in Medieval Madness, all you have to do is hit that, you know, you hit it enough, boom, drawbridge comes down. You hit it enough, boom, the gate goes up. You hit it up the middle, boom, you blew it up. You happen to hit a little bit to the left of that, you can get to a multiball. Like, it's super easy to explain to a novice person. But the building on a premium or LE of Godzilla, you can do the exact same thing. You can tell a novice person, hit that building enough. What happens? It lowers down. You hit that enough. again, you're going to see the balls lock on top of the building, and you hit it again, and boom, you're in a multi-ball. Like, I think we may have finally found a mech that, in my mind, can potentially compete with the Medieval Madness castle.
    57:07
    And that is huge. I think that's huge to have in a game that I think the – why are we pointing to Mountain Dew? That's fair, Joel. Oh, that's fair. Okay. Okay, but that's my, like, I have the Pro, and unfortunately the Pro doesn't have that. It doesn't have the raising and lowering mech. But the Pro is really showing me all these other things about Godzilla that are incredible, that are really, really neat and fun. And I don't have to get into those, but just focusing on the building alone, in my mind, I think there might finally be a mech that can compete with the Medieval Madness Castle. and it's just as easy to explain. It does just as cool, like it may not blow up, but it raises and lowers. The multi-ball is right there. It's easy to explain. It's all right there in the building.
    58:00
    And then, Tom, you had mentioned humor. I don't know about you guys, but they really went all in on campiness. Yeah, Godzilla is hilarious. Godzilla is so funny. and to be honest most of the time in code it's only at 0.81 right now and you know there's going to be plenty of rules but what typically ends up being added like what are the main things that are added towards the end of the code it's typically more light shows and more clips like more video clips or more sound clips in my mind i think the humor level of this game is only going to increase. I think they're only going to add more content. And so, I mean, Deadpool is hilarious. In my mind, I think Deadpool is a hilarious game. That may be one of the funnier games out there. But I am really surprised with how much fun I have with Godzilla. And my brother-in-law came over, and he was laughing at the game while I'm playing, looking at the clips and stuff. So in my mind, what is it about Medieval Madness? You said it's the mech, and it's the humor. And I just personally think Godzilla can go toe-to-toe with that and might actually stay at number one, if not top three. Okay, my wife, who doesn't play pinball at all, played Godzilla, and she liked it. I didn't think somebody like my wife would say something like that. There you go. I mean, there's a ringing endorsement right there, Zach Minning. That's how you sell games right there. Tom's wife. No, it goes, Neil's dad's wife approves of this game. We can't just go with Neil's mom to remove Neil. Yeah, that's true. We can just get Tom completely out of this picture. Yeah, Neil's mom. But, no, it's exactly what we talked about a few weeks ago, Joel, on one of your streams when we were talking about Godzilla. Yeah. And I said even there that I think quite possibly we're looking at a game that will most likely be considered the greatest of all time when it's all said and done. And I think that we're still looking at that.
    60:12
    Oh, yeah, of course, of course. But, I mean, so, and there's a lot of reasons for that. Now, it's still, it's fascinating to me when you look at a Godzilla compared to a Twilight Zone or compared to, I don't know, even a creature or something like that, just different types of layouts that aren't necessarily your traditional fan layout. You know, it's something that's very dynamic. And what I find interesting about the building in general is not only the fact that it moves up and down, but it can alter your shots, too. And that right there is something that's very unique. And I know that the newbie player might not appreciate that because they might not even realize what they're seeing. But somebody that is fully into pinball, they're going to notice that. And that dynamic right there is huge in of itself. And then on top of that, whenever I got a chance to play the premium and whenever I saw how the balls get locked up and just the sound going off with the blue oyster cult, Godzilla song and all that, it added to that atmosphere. And it was just when we talk about pinball moments, that to me is a pinball moment. And for me personally, after destroying the castle several times over the course of my pinball career, for me, I'm more excited to see the building than I am the castle. And a lot of that is not just the mech itself. It's everything that's included with it. It's the sound. It's the music. It's what happens right afterwards because you know if you destroy that building, something good is going to happen, and you end up getting a lot of shots lit. where with Medieval Madness, if you destroy the castle, well, really all that happens after the castle does its little blow-up thing, you go right back to doing the same exact thing again. And I think that's the big difference is Godzilla gives you a chance to breathe and it gives you plenty of other things to do and then come back around to that building And I think what really cool about it is when you look at the medieval madness mech what added in with that is that ball lock that right there to the left right So it kind of gives you something else to do. But with Godzilla, you have that magna grab or whatever it's called, you know? And so there's something right there that's kind of added in with it that may not be attached to it as it was in medieval madness, but you still do have to utilize the building in order to get it back there anyway. So I really like how that is. And there's just, I don't know, there's just a lot of stuff added on with it that really brings it together. And for me, it's a good experience that I don't think is going to get old anytime soon. I'm with you. And what surprised me when I saw the initial stream and I was like, oh, wow, he put this crazy mech right up the middle. Like, okay, am I going to have to destroy this building every single time? Like, every single time you play Medieval Madness, you are focusing on destroying castles. Like, that is a key aspect of the game. The reality is the way that Keith has coded this game, like, that's just one multiball. There's so many other multiballs in the game. You don't have to prioritize that first, or you may not even do that. Like, it's not the main focal point of the game. There's bridge multiball. There's tank multiball. There's Mechagodzilla multiball. Bridge alone is an awesome mech. Mechagodzilla is an awesome mech. And it's just that's – I don't know. I think he's added this mech, and you're saying it's an amazing moment. What's great is it gives you a chance to breathe because it's before a multiball. It's not a single-ball moment. It's the start of a multiball.
    63:46
    Travis, you – You actually just hit the nail on the head right there of why that this should be the number one pin and why it most likely will stay because the big difference between Godzilla and a lot of these other pens is that if you really break down the different areas of the Godzilla play field, each has its own little ecosystem of something to do. And it's always interesting. It's not boring. Like the left side with the floating flipper, not boring. The right side with the pop bumper and the scoop, even though I hate scoops, but this actually makes sense where it's at. It's not boring. It's a fun shot to hit. where Mechagodzilla is on the Premium and LE, that's not boring at all. And you know what? Hitting that spinner right there, even on a pro, is still fun. The way that you can combo the ramps is fun. The way that you can hit the heat ray center spinner is fun. The way you can do the loops is fun. It's hard to find a spot on this play field in which it's not fun. I mean, hell, even the in lanes become fun because that's how you get your jet fire. Yeah, it is crazy to me how much in this game there is when you really break it down section by section. Even on the left side, it's kind of that mazer cannon is exactly where the idol is from Ripley's Believe It or Not. And that's an interesting shot. And there's parts of the game that forces you to go that direction. And that's what I like about the rule set as well is it does make you go horizontal in order to make progress in certain modes. Oh, side to side, yeah. Yep. So just to confirm, Tom, the reason your wife liked the game was because of the in lanes, right? That's what she's into. It's all about those in lanes. Yes, in lanes. She was shatting them. Yeah. Well, hey, I'm pretty sure there's something in the game or at least there's something coming to where you need to shat through the right in lane. I read a rule. Yeah, if you start a mode or you change your city by shatting through the right end lane up into the scoop, it's worth something extra. Like, it's something stupid like that. That's physically possible? Apparently, yeah. Apparently, you can. Or maybe it's something like that. You have to shat through the right, or maybe it's the opposite. Maybe you have to shat through the left to start the Mazer Cannon. I don't know. It's something like that. Let's figure this out. Okay. Okay, so what's the most boring part to the pin on the play field?
    66:14
    Because if you think about any other game, you can pretty much say what part doesn't hold any water to the rest of it pretty quick. I mean, the Mazer Cannon doesn't, it's not necessarily a shot that gives you any joy. Like, what's cool, though, right next to it is a spinner, which is fun to rip. Spinners are always fun to rip. but um so basically one shot out of the whole entire game that you're kind of like yeah hold on i don't i mean we the point the reality is i think the three of us we could spend the next 30 minutes talking about each individual section of godzilla and why it's awesome and i don't right we don't have to do that but but what i'm getting at is now let's compare it to medieval madness oh yeah you see what i mean i mean it's like for me the canon or what is that not the canon the catapult So, yeah, that, I mean, it's whatever. I mean, the orbits are orbits, you know? I mean, maybe the right ramp can be fun when it opens up and you can go all the way. I mean, that's about it. The saucer shot, I could care less. I don't like that shot at all. Well, the trolls are cool. The trolls are cool. Yeah, sure. Okay, trolls. Yeah. The two things that come up and everybody's like, oh, crap, it's in the way. It's in the way. Yeah. But they're cool. Well, I mean, from a novice standpoint, though, what is it that, like, my friends and family, drink your drink, what is it that they like? They want to see those mechs. They want to see something like a – something change on the play field. And, you know, they step up to Medieval Madness. They see the castle. Oh, that's cool. I want to do that again. Or the trolls pop up. They're like, oh, that's neat. Obviously, Godzilla, this is what I think is weird, is – so you've got the building. You can show them that. And then you can show them Mechagodzilla on a premium. You can show all that spins. and, oh, you can hit them in the little tummy, which is what Dennis referred to it as. You could show them how the bridge moves. To be honest, for a novice to get to a bridge multiball, though, would be impressive.
    68:09
    There's a few different things. But I do think, and this is, you probably guys aren't going to like this, but believe it or not, my brother-in-law, when he came over and we were playing Godzilla, he looked, he's like, what's with the QR code? Like, he asked what that was about, Insider Connected. And I was like, I explained to him what it was. He's like, oh, okay. Well, then I was playing and I got an achievement. He goes, okay, how do I sign up for this? And he did. He pulled out his phone and he signed up for Insider Connected right there. Like he saw me get an achievement and saw that and goes, well, I want to do that. And what's unfortunate is it actually took like over 10 minutes for him to get the confirmation email for him to sign up. So like the level of entry for somebody brand new to sign up for the platform isn't instant. It was, he was like checking his email as we were still playing. He finally got it. And then he got in, and then that was all he wanted to do is he's like, how do I get an achievement? And it's like, well, let's try to get you to start a multiball. And he played a game, and boom, he got that achievement. And he's like, well, let me do another achievement. So it's me next to him. I mean, it pushed him to play the game another 20 minutes because he wanted to get a few of the easy achievements. So I just think from a novice standpoint, I mean, maybe Stern's kind of smart. And between Keith Elwin designing amazing games and this Insider Connected, And I just, yeah, everybody's sick of hearing this because that's what I think every podcast has been for the last month. But, like, Godzilla's legit. Godzilla is legit. And I think it's here to stay. And I think it may stay in the top ten, if not top three, for quite a while. It won't drop out of the top five. I don't see any way possible. It would have to be review bombed by some deep-rooted Stan that just wants to take the world down. I just don't see it happening. But I will say about the Insider Connect, because I know we've talked about it a little bit here and there. I will say just from firsthand experience or at least witnessing this, my two sons that are 11 and 12, they can't get enough of it. For them, it resonates because they're fully into the PC and Xbox culture achievements and all that. And when they see something like that, what I've noticed, and I haven't pushed it on them, they're figuring out the rule set along the way. and they're talking about and they're like, OK, how do I do this or how do I do that? And that's one of the things that's kind of like a side effect of and I'm sure Stern planned on this of achievements themselves, is that it forces you to explore different parts of the game that you otherwise might not think of if that achievement wasn't there. Yep. So, I mean, that's definitely a good side effect. And I find that even my kids, they're enjoying the game a lot more. And that's another big reason why I decided to get a Beatles, because it's supposed to come with Insider Connected also. with achievements and all that. So I'm very interested in all that for sure. So Tom, I'm assuming you know this. So currently I'm having my basement, it's all the drywall's hung, it's currently being mudded. So I'm actually sitting in my unfinished basement area. All my games are surrounding me, but they're all folded up. They're all wrapped up, folded up. So I haven't actually played anything in like well over a week and a half, but they just dropped all the new code for all the other games. So like Deadpool, Turtles, a bunch of other games got code updates and the code updates include Insider Connect. Well, nobody has Insider Connect. They haven't shipped any of the Insider Connected stuff to anybody. Nobody has it. But what you can do is you can actually take the Insider Connect QR code reader out of your Godzilla and plug it into your Deadpool or your Turtles or whatever, install the new code update, and it will see that QR code reader. So there are people, it's funny, there's all these Godzilla owners out there that are taking their QR code readers out of their Godzilla and moving it game to game to game to game and, like, getting achievements in other games. Did you know that? Have you thought about doing that? That sounds like a lot of work, Joel.
    72:03
    No. No is the answer. Yeah. But it has really shown me, though, I mean, for people that are on the fence of, like, do I want to spend $200 on an Insider Connected kit? It sounds like all you've got to do is buy one. You only have to buy one. and I guarantee somebody will probably 3D print something. It'll be like a little box that you could put your, you know, Lermods or Mezzomods or whoever wants to listen to me talk, you know, make a box that fits your little QR code reader. Here's what I would do. For the record, Stern, I am not going to do that. My name is Travis Murie. I will not do that.
    72:41
    Joel might, though. No, I only have two games. You guys send the feds to Joel, please. I'm getting it for both. There's a place you can put it, probably on the coin door where the bill acceptor would go. You probably could. But I'm saying that if you wanted to make a portable one, it looks like it's just a, what is it, like a Cat5 cable, and you just run one of those, an extra one, stick it out of the bottom of your game. And, I mean, there are people, you know people will be doing that, but I think that's huge. I'm not necessarily endorsing it, but I just, I think it's for the home use owner, for the home use buyers, I think that the fact that that is even doable, I think there's going to be a lot more people now buying at least one kit, and they're going to be hunting these achievements at home. Well, and let's face it, I mean, Stern is pretty much, aren't they making that for a location? I mean, it's not necessarily for a home user. I mean, a home user can use it, but. Yeah, you only get half the points, right? You only get half the points. or in Travis's world, you get double points on location. That's how he likes to look at it. But I do know what's possible, and I do know there's people doing it. So, you know, it's still – Insider Connect has been released, but it's still just slowly, barely trickling out.
    74:00
    And I think they had, like, a production of Iron Maidens recently that actually home-use buyers have got their games that now have Insider Connect. But I don't really know of any other games that have been produced since Godzilla that have that built in yet.
    74:16
    Yeah, like Travis said before, he bought his Beatles with Insider Connect. I decided to do the same. Got it. Because I think, didn't Zach, so this is Zach Minnian flipping out pinball, didn't he say he had a few Beatles in stock? So you didn't buy anything in stock. You were purposely placing your. So when I talked to Zach, he had one in stock. I don't know if he still has it. But he said, hey, just so you know, they're going to be making more with the Insider Connect.
    74:45
    You know, it's a little more money, but. Sure. Yeah, I just decided to go with the Insider Connect one. And when are those being made? Are those this year or next year? I don't know.
    74:57
    Okay. Pretty soon, I'd hope. Yeah. I'm assuming. I think within the next couple of months. Yeah. Is there a price? I think it is. I know Beatles had a unique price already, but was there a price increase? Like, did Beatles move its price based on Godzilla pricing? $300 more than a... Yeah, but it's not like... What was it? They were showing, like, Turtles and Mando and all the other pros are going up to a Godzilla Pro price come January 1st. I mean, pricing is pricing. I think we're going to find, just like we talked about in the last one, it's going to be dynamic across the board now. Now that a lot of these distributors are figuring out that they're not getting the allotments that they thought that they were going to get. Sure. I'm sure a lot of them realize that they got to price a little bit differently. Otherwise, they're going to be out of a game pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. Or out of stock pretty quick. So, I mean, pricing is kind of all over the place. Could Stern come back to distributors and say you can only sell your games at MSRP? Absolutely. Stern as a distributor or as the wholesaler or as a manufacturer, sorry, as a manufacturer, they could go ahead and put a price ceiling on it. Now, the thing is, it's not necessarily in their interest to put a price ceiling on it. Sure. Because the bottom line is, is the way that prices are going, it makes it to where they can justify putting out Elvira 40th anniversary, to where there's no MSRP. Which is crazy. Right. It's crazy. Right. And it makes it to where they're justified putting out something that's probably coming out next year, that everybody pretty much knows what I'm talking about at this point. So, I mean, some companies would want to put a price ceiling on it, but I think at this point it wouldn't make much sense for Stern to do that in this way because their distribution is so much, too. They have so many distributors and dealers or whatever you want to call them. I personally think that there's too many out there, but as it is, it's like once that's out of Pandora's box, you're not going to put it back in. Yeah. Because what's going to happen, if they put a price ceiling, it would basically make it to where all the small dealers would be absolutely annihilated. They would get destroyed. And it would put a lot of people out of business really quick. Because if they sell through, yeah, they get the profit off that. But then guess what? They're sitting there with no inventory. When you have no inventory, you can't make any sales. And when you go a few months in between getting product, I mean, it makes it awfully difficult. So imagine them telling somebody, well, the LEs are 10.5. You better not sell it for 15 and get that extra 5 or whatever it is. You know, I mean, that's a lot of money. And just like we estimated before, I mean, we did the numbers. And there's some companies that legitimately, without doing dynamic pricing, they cost themselves a quarter of a million dollars probably last year. And that's not chump change at all. I mean, when you're talking about rising costs in raw materials and when you're talking about a lack of inventory, you need money to keep your business healthy. You need money to make sure that you make it through whatever you need to make through. So, I mean, I just don't see a price ceiling coming up. I think it wouldn't be the smartest decision to do at this point. Yeah. Which is, I mean, as a buyer, that's unfortunate. It would be nice if we can keep these things, you know, dialed it like in capped. That would be very nice. But I get it. I also understand from a sales perspective, I would understand why they won't do it. But, well, I, yeah, just look at the time. We had plans of discussing the whole top 10. All I'll say is making one quick comment. Keith Elwin right now, he has four games. All four of his games are in the top 10. And if you look at the top 10, there's a lot of modern games, a bunch of, you know, JJP's modern games are right there. And it's just, it's clear the games that have come out in the last few years have really come in and disrupted, you know, these classics that have held these top 10 standards for a long time. And Keith Elwin is, if you haven't heard of the guy, if you're new to pinball, Keith Elwin, this guy has proven he can design a pinball machine. And he's not bad at playing them either. True. Well, I think what's most interesting about it, too, is that there's three designers right now that are still active that have multiple pins that are high up, and that's Eric, Elwin, and Brian Eddy. Yeah. You know, I mean, so there's still a lot of pinball to be had in the future. Well, technically Gomez, too. I mean, Gomez, he's not supposed to be designing, but yet Deadpool's up there. Monster Bash is up there. Lord of the Rings is up there pretty high. Gomez knows how to design a game. So if we're looking at that, who are these designers that are really crushing it? It's, yeah, Brian Eddy, Eric Mignor with J.J.P., Keith Elwin, Stern, and Gomez with Stern. So pretty crazy stuff. Pretty crazy stuff. I have no transition but one of the things I don't know whose idea this was I think it was Travis's idea Neil's dad's idea we were talking music pins and so Travis gave us homework and said hey come prepare that was me who gave us the idea that was Tom he wanted us to come prepared for a list of your top five music pins and then we were discussing how do we share this and we decided, okay, let's just go around and list out the music pins or the bands that we think would make sense to have a music pin. And maybe collectively, the chance of this going well is very small, but maybe between the three of us, we can somehow agree on what we feel are five bands or pins that would make sense to make as music pins. And you can't do pins that have already been done or rumored to be coming out like Rush and Queen. Well, Queen has already been out. Queen's already been out, technically.
    81:07
    It's already been set. And then, yes, one of my honorable mentions, it makes sense, Rush. It's not confirmed, but it is pretty clear. It better be made. I'm kicking everybody's ass. The next Stern pen is going to be Rush. So, believe it or not, the list that I'm most interested to hear is actually Travis's. So, Travis, let's start with you. No, never mind. Screw you. Tom, this is your game.
    81:38
    Tom, we'll start with you. That way we can end on whatever insanity Travis brings to the table. So, Tom, what do we got? What's your wish list? I'm going to go five. Loser kids, please come save me. I'm a free agent.
    81:54
    My number five was Red Hot Chili Peppers. All right. Solid band. Got it. A lot of albums. Well liked. Yeah. My number four was Motley Crue. Okay. My number three was Foo Fighters. Good choice. My number two is The Who. And I want to hear that Tommy game. There's not The Who. That is the theatrical version of Tommy. So I went the Who band. Okay. All-encompassing. Yeah, yeah. Which band? The Who.
    82:40
    Got it. Okay. I see what you attempted to do there, Travis. And my number one. I just like hearing him say the Who.
    82:49
    And my number one, since Rush is off my number one list, would be Van Halen. Oh. Okay, so, okay, before we get into Travis's list, my question is, what makes a good music pin?
    83:10
    Because when I think of good music pins, the four that pop into my head are ACDC, Metallica, Led Zeppelin, and Guns N' Roses. Those are the four that pop into my head. Am I missing one? Am I missing something glaringly obvious as a good music pin?
    83:28
    Kiss has gotten a lot better. Kiss. Okay. But when we look at those five, what is it that makes it a good music pin versus just a pin that happens to be themed on a band?
    83:46
    What's a bad music pin? What would be a bad one? The original GNR? Would you consider that a bad music pin?
    83:54
    Yeah, I'm not a fan of that one. Or maybe what separates out of those five, what do you feel is the best of those five?
    84:02
    I mean, the most well-liked, if you look at the list, would be GNR, right? I think the best on that list would probably be Metallica. But that's my personal preference. But Metallica, and I agree, Metallica is a fantastic game. But the truth is, Metallica just has a handful of Metallica songs. and the reason people love Metallica, right, is typically Sparky, the toys, and then the fact that the code is so unique with the risk-reward, right? I mean, I don't know. Does it just happen to be – I feel like you could re-theme Metallica relatively easily. And there are people that take Metallica and swap out the songs all the time. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I feel about Iron Maiden. I feel like you could put any band on there. I just figured you were just ignoring Iron Maiden. I just played along with it. I'm going to go hang myself. But Beatles, right? Like, Beatles is a great music pin, and you guys just bought one.
    84:58
    But I'm just trying to wrap my head around that. Like, how do you make a music pin? Like, how do you do that well? And I think when I think of modern stuff, I think of, like, Led Zeppelin. I think Led Zeppelin has done a very good job where, sure, you can say what you want about the layout or the toys or the mechs that are in or not in the game. But I think Led Zeppelin did a good job where there's a fair amount of songs, And each song has a very unique rule set. And the way that the songs flow one into the other and the other, I mean, you really feel you're rocking out when you are playing Led Zeppelin. Like, it's a great experience.
    85:32
    And then GNR takes that to a whole new level where it is you are at the concert, right? You have the light show. You have 21 different songs.
    85:41
    The GNR, Guns N' Roses, is the core of the game. Some people say that's all that's in the game. They don't really care about the rules or the layout or anything, but the light show and the music, that's what makes the game, right? So I don't know. At least me, when I was thinking in my head, what's a music pin that I want to play, I am thinking about what bands put on a good show that could bring visuals to the game, that could bring a light show to the game, that can bring high energy to the game. Because the truth is I think you can take most bands, and if you give it a killer rule set like Metallica, you could make them, or even Iron Maiden. There's a lot of people that don't like Iron Maiden at all, but Keith Elwin gave it an awesome layout and some really good rule set and made that game really well loved.
    86:29
    True. So what makes one band more, like, why did those bands make your list, Tom? Was it just popularity, or was it because you feel like, I don't know, the energy that they bring to the pen? Yeah, I think it's more so energy. Like, you know, certain songs I think are better for pinball.
    86:52
    But, you know, I'm not going to play, you know, I don't know, My Little Pony. Inya? Inya. Yeah. The Kenny G pin is going to go gangbusters. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, I get you. I understand, like Adele is one of the most popular artists, you know, in the U.S., but that's not going to work well for a pinball machine.
    87:20
    I don't know. I'm going to go second just because I like, I want to. So hold, just keep staring at your iPad, Travis.
    87:28
    With all of my little rant there, when I first saw GNR, I said that pin, that light show is absurd. and they did an amazing job bringing in all of the concert animations and concert footage. And it truly feels like you were at the concert. You were at the concert. So in my mind, when I first saw that, I was like, too bad it's Guns N' Roses, though, because I don't really like Guns N' Roses. But in my mind, what's a band that puts on the same level of light show and rock and amazing concert experience? And I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe. Have you guys ever heard of the band Muse? M-U-S-E, Muse. I have it. Yep. Muse, they are incredible. They are a current, they are a modern rock band that they, I mean, they sold at Wembley. I mean, they're incredible, and I've seen them live, but they put on truly an amazing, like, rock show experience, like visual experience. And so that's why, in my mind, that was my number one, Muse, because I don't think they're popular. Like, they're not popular enough to be Van Halen. They can't beat that. They can't beat Motley Crue. They can't beat anything that you just mentioned. But they visually bring something insane to a concert. And I feel like there's a lot of people that are asking for modern bands. Like, they don't want the dad rock bands. They want modern bands. So I was thinking, what's a modern band? So my list was actually Muse was number one. Foo Fighters was on that list. Foo Fighters, once again, puts on an amazing show. They're a modern band. I think you're onto something right there. Red Hot Chili Peppers, same thing. I would consider them a modern band. They put on an amazing show. That fits into that. Another band that I actually think fits well, once again, into modern rock bands that put on a really good show is Linkin Park. Now, Linkin Park is not – I don't love them. I don't listen to them anymore. But there's a joke that anybody under the age of 40, at some point in time, your favorite band was Linkin Park. That's the joke. And there's truth to it. Like, I loved Linkin Park when I was in high school. But I think they have an amazing discography. They're a solid rock band.
    89:43
    They've got plenty to pull from. I don't. I think they're popular enough. I think Linkin Park could potentially make sense. And then my last band, which is, we've talked about this before, is let's say we avoid rock. Well, what's another high-energy music genre? And I'm going to go electronica. And so if you're going to go electronica, this is to me, I've called TNA a music pin before, and people poo-poo that. They say, no, it's not. But if I think of an electronica band that would fit that type of pin, what electronica band in my mind has one of the best discographies that you could pull from? And that's Daft Punk. I understand Tron is already a Daft Punk game, and there are people that own Tron just because it's a Daft Punk game. But if there was a dedicated Daft Punk game, the visuals and the audio that you could bring into that game, the Daft Punk Alive Tour is insane. And there's plenty of other electronica bands out there that could have good pins. But if I'm going to go with one with name recognition, I kind of feel like Daft Punk leads the charge there. So that was my five with my, with my honorable mentions being would, which were rush, but then Pink Floyd, obviously Pink Floyd rock band with a ridiculous visual and light show. And then tool. I understand tools. Music is very chill, like more chill and very long. But once again, if what's going to make a pin stand out in my mind, it's going to be bringing the visual and the light show and that atmospheric experience to the game.
    91:19
    That was my list. So I'm fine with two lists. And if you want to move on, Tom, we can. No, we got to give Travis his due. Yeah, okay. All right. He's very proud over there. Yeah. I'm going to go to poor man's podcast at this rate. Travis, let's hear your list. Drew needs a new co-host. What's your list and why is it Dixie Chicks?
    91:42
    So, actually, I kind of figured with some of the names that you guys put out there, I kind of figured you guys would say that. So I purposely left a few of those off. And so the ones I purposely left off was Lincoln Park and Foo Fighters and Van Halen. Okay. So those I left off, I think those are really good ones. So I just kind of took it a different direction. Sure. I said, okay, what's kind of off the beaten path that maybe nobody's thinking about that would, I don't know, would be interesting. I don't know if it'd sell well. I don't know how well it'd do on location. I just think the pens would be interesting. So in no particular order, I do have Daft Punk on there. There you go. It's like one of my number ones, and it's just strictly because of the type of show that they put on. I think if I was designing or coding a pin, I would love to have something like Daft Punk because it's just to me, if you look at Daft Punk, I'm sure Dwight Sullivan would be salivating to do something like that. Because imagine the light shows that you could do with something like that. So I think something something around Daft Punk and they have the right music for it as well. And they have plenty of catalog that you could go off of. They're retired now. and so it's just it's something that i think would go over really well if you imagine if sorry to interrupt i just no no go ahead you like a stern got it great or i don't care but if you like there somebody scott denisi who is an electronica music maker in this hobby if you somehow got scott involved because daft punk you could remix remix all their songs So depending on where you at you could continue to loop the same music and it could all flow together Like electronic music makes total sense. So I'm glad you brought this up. So Scott Denise will not be able to make Daft Punk or work on it. The reason being is because he is my number four and it's a game called Scott Denise's house party. So you guys remember they did Scott Denisey Haunted House Party. Yeah. And it ended up not happening. I say, have Scott Denisey do a new soundtrack, new game. Say, you're the DJ. Go for it. Like, this is your game. So I would like to see something like that because with TNA's music, I'm very impressed by that. Yeah. Just the sounds of it. And I would like to see more of that again. I'd like to see what else he has up in the tank. So even though he wrote all the music of Rick and Morty. I don't want to see TNA 2.0. I want to see Scott Denise's house party. I want to see something just inspired. He just goes nuts. You let him do Scott Denise-y things and see what happens. I was very impressed by the soundtrack. I'm trying to remember, and maybe it was Jordan from Fliptronic, but somebody said something about what if you made a game that as you're hitting shots, you were building the song. so electronic music you can do that where different you know it starts off with that beat but as you're hitting stuff it's adding in all that stuff most pinball players would be doing like the cymbals because they'd be bricking shots all the time yeah exactly damn this song needs more cowbell if there was a exploit right where it's like well for tournament mode all you hit is left orbit it's like dude quick. Don't add any more synths. The left orbit is the synth shot. We have it. We have enough. I personally would just like to see and be able to create something like that. Because I think if you're going to go just kind of an original IP, I think have it be music. Have it be music and you could really make something pretty cool. And you could probably do that with any established artist that's out there, even if they're not very well known. I mean, I think that there's a lot of opportunity out there, and I think that that's something that if you're American pinball, probably consider. If you're spooky, probably consider. I mean, I think there's a lot of meat left on the bone for something like that that a lot of people would be attracted to.
    95:54
    Yeah, I mean, there's plenty. I mean, Tom's all in on Rush. It doesn't matter who's designing it. It does not matter how – I mean, that game could be garbage, but Tom's in. Tom's ready to buy it, and that's because of the band. So I understand there are plenty of bands out there that now, obviously, you need to look at your demographic. You need to look at who's buying pinball machines. So if they made a Taylor Swift pin right now, I don't think that would sell nearly as well as Van Halen or Rush. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things, too. I want to be up front. I would love for there to be a hip-hop machine. I would love for there to be one. I mean, I even took my Iron Maiden and I redid the music to be hip-hop maiden. And I love that thing. It all blended together. It all made sense. I wish something out there was like that, but just facing facts, the demographic, I don't think it would support it necessarily. Yeah. But I would love something like that. I think even on location, I don't know how well that would do overall. In a lot of different regions, it would probably do semi-decent, but in a lot of other regions, not so much. There would have to be a family-friendly mode, right? And there would be plenty of leaps or exclusion. But I actually did Tom's homework, and instead of looking up, like, top 50 greatest rock bands, I looked up top 50 greatest live shows. Because that's what I think Guns N' Roses has really done well is they focus on a live show. And one of the highest rated rap live shows was the Jay-Z and Kanye, what is it, Watch the Throne or something? Yeah. It's like, man, that would be a blast. Like, that could be an amazing pin. So Kanye West would be another pin. I would really like to see if somebody did hip hop. I would love to see that. I thought about Lincoln Park, too, because I think if you did Lincoln Park, there's potential. Maybe you could back door and have some Jay-Z in that since they did a collaboration. Maybe. I don't know. Obviously, you know, license and all that. But I mean, that's all possibilities. But anyhow, so moving forward with my next band. And this isn't even a band. This goes into the show that we were talking about before. and I think Marshmello, the DJ, would make a very good pin. Yep. And the reason being is because I think Marshmello has how many subscribers on YouTube? I think like 55 million or something like that. Super popular. He's in the Fortnite game. Yep. And I don't know how popular he would be with the demographic, but I think on location, if you do it right and you have the music booming, I think it could be high end potential on location. Yep. With something like that. Yep. Easy.
    98:35
    Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that would be like my out and left field. One that is actually super popular with a lot of the young crowd that might be able to pull in some people, but I don't know. So just putting that out there, um, coming back around to something that's a little bit more traditional or red hot chili peppers. I think that has to be made. I don't see any way possible that this does not get made. I think it would sell like hotcakes. The music would be great. It has all kinds of just timeless music that's just very, very popular. And I know for sure if somebody made a Red Hot Chili Peppers, we would have to get the L.E. because it's my wife's favorite band. And I hear it all the time. So something like that, I think it needs to be made. and then my last one and I'm going to throw you guys a curveball here I think this would actually be pretty popular instead of just one band I say get a record label and use various artists from that record label and guess what? you don't have to use just one genre so the record label I have in mind is Republic Records and the reason for that is Republic Records has just all kinds of different artists from every genre. Like, we're talking they have The Lonely Island. You guys heard of that? Yeah.
    99:58
    They have Limp Bizkit. They have Lil Wayne. They have Weezer. They have Post Malone, Kid Cudi. Let's see. What else is there? So are you saying this is like a you choose what songs you want on there? Yeah, yeah. Or just a total mix? I think it would be cool. Well, I mean, because they have, well, here's some of the other bands, too. Florence and Machine, Florida Georgia Line, they have Ariana Grande, Godsmack, Drake. I mean, and this is all from the same label. And so in my head, what I'm thinking is that if you get with a record label and you get various artists, you're able to craft a story in which you're basically the record label itself, and you're trying to acquire just the different songs and all that. to basically just form your record or whatever. But it gives you a chance to have different beats. It gives you a chance to go up tempo, to go down tempo, to go loud, to go soft. And I think something like that could really change the way things are because I know Guitar Hero or something like that or Rock Band would be a pretty popular theme, but obviously license reasons, that would be very hard to do. So I think the easiest way to go about this, if somebody could just get with a record label and take various artists from there, you could be able to backdoor hip-hop. You could be able to have your classic rock. You could be able to have your up-tempo pop. You could really pick and choose how you want to do things. Why couldn't you do rock band?
    101:28
    They can make a $50 game out of it. The reason being is because you have to get licensed with several different companies. You could call it rock band and happen that the license happens to all be that one label, but they probably want, I mean, I see what you're saying. And I know this is, this is literally every time this comes up, but it's when you have these really cool themes, you got to realize this pin is going to be set on location between Mandalorian and like Stranger Things. So you have these crazy themes that everybody knows. So if you have a Republic Records pin and that's what it's advertised as, that's not going to get the level of play that Amanda is. That's why I understand that Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin and soon-to-be Rush. So why couldn't you put the band's name on the side of it? So if it said Post Malone, you know, maybe. Why can't it have their picture on it? Yeah. If you have the assets. Good point. No. Why can't it show them on the LCD? Yeah. Going back to your point, though, Joel, Rush isn't, like, a super popular band. I mean they're popular but they're not Florida Georgia launch I mean let's face that but they're not Guns N' Roses fan base or yeah you know I don't know I was I mean top 10 bands like I was surprised when I looked at that list like U2 was there I don't want a U2 pin but like U2's huge U2 is huge I like you too, but I don't necessarily want to pin after them. Yeah. I think out of all of them, the ones that make the most sense is going to be Red Hot Chili Peppers, Daft Punk, Linkin Park, and Foo Fighters. Yeah. I think Foo Fighters would make a really great pin as well. Yeah. And I know my muse is like Tom doesn't know who they are, and I get that. But I just, my whole thing was give me that light show in the, like, if you could get the video assets from Muse and give me that light show, I think you could have a ridiculous pin. But the reality is it's all about name recognition.
    103:44
    And, yeah, if Stern's sitting there and they're going, well, which do we want to buy? Do we want to buy Van Halen's license and commit to that? Or do we want to buy Muse? they're going to pick Van Halen all day because they know it's guaranteed sales. But I think you're right. I think those, what we just listed Foo Fighters and Red Hot Chili Peppers and Lincoln Park, in my mind,
    104:10
    that is maybe on the lower end of the age demographic for pinball, but it's, the popularity is there. And I think they do really well on location. And Daft Punk, I think is huge. I'm surprised that nobody, like you're right. American pinball, grab a marshmallow, grab a Daphnon, grab an electronica band and just go to town.
    104:34
    Yeah, I'm with you there. Well, here's a reason, too, and we talked about this a little bit earlier off podcast. Here is a big reason why pinball keeps doing classic rock. And I have it right here in front of me. I think the website's called Statista. I hope I'm pronouncing it right. Basically, they collect demographics and everything, and they collect data. And so they went to 3,000 respondents, 16 and over, and this is for favorite music genres among consumers in the United States, right? This is just a couple of years ago. And classic rock itself, 36% of the ages 20 to 24 said that classic rock is their favorite genre. That's not a small number. As much as people think about dad rock, retro stuff is more popular than what people realize. 25 to 34, 44%, so nearly half. 25 to 34, 35 to 44, 46%. And then, of course, once you get to 45, 54, rock is up to 62%. So, I mean, there's a lot of people that want to hear classic rock. And then when you turn around and you look at hip hop, it is 20 to 24 is 54%, which in all reality is just, what, about 18% higher than the classic rock. But even then, it gets even lower as you go on. 25 to 34 is 42%, 35 to 44 is 33%, and then 45 to 54 is 15%. And so there's a big reason why classic rock works because it spans across more ages than what people realize. I mean, it goes sub 30. It realistically does.
    106:18
    So with that in mind, and if we're going to be realistic, what music pins are actually going to come out? And it's going to be Rush and Bay and Halen. And maybe you'll see that Motley Crue.
    106:32
    We're probably going to stick in that. Unless a smaller manufacturer wants to take a gamble on something younger. Or unless somebody in some board meeting is like, all right, we need to let's produce a pin that is purposely focused on a younger demographic. So but the reality is they're probably going to have better luck if they pursue, you know, if they can go, let's go marshmallow or let's go. Can we get a video game license? Can we do something like that? You know, there's other things that would probably draw on the younger crowd. I mean, I think Foo Fighters or Red Hot Chili Peppers would be the perfect bands to bridge that gap. from old school classic to modern music. Well, we know right now that if Stern produces a game, it's everything they're making, their LEs are selling out. So the truth is, are they going to sell more Van Halen machines than they would Foo Fighters? I don't necessarily think that's a guarantee. I mean, Led Zeppelin sold a ton, but at the same time, there's a lot of people that don't like the Led Zeppelin game. So now they're not selling as much. The game still has to be good, regardless of what the theme is. It must be good. The game still has to be good, and I think we've said this before, I feel bad for whoever's game comes out next because of Godzilla. Godzilla is so good that the next game has to compete with it. That's already happened, though.
    107:52
    Back Danger. I mean, yeah, but that's kind of a totally different type of game. I don't know. Well, I think that's a great discussion. to this, if you think we're crazy or you agree with us or if somebody's insulted that I cracked a joke at Dixie Chicks, feel free to email us at tripledrain at gmail.com. I'd love to hear your opinion. Maybe we're on to something or not. Maybe we missed something. Maybe we did. Maybe there's a band that you're screaming at your head. Kid Rock, obviously. The Toppers could have two stripper poles on it.
    108:29
    It could have pyro It'll be great. Perfect. I do think you had said this record label pin. Somebody, and I really feel bad, somebody had this conversation on another podcast. It may have been Jesse Jay, and somebody had thrown out this idea of a Tony Hawk Pro Skater game. And at the time, I thought it was silly. But the reality is Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the original game, when it came out, the soundtrack of that game was absurd. It was really, really good. And I think skateboarding, you guys played Radical. Radical is a pretty sweet game. I think skateboarding with the ramps and the things that you can do within a game, to be honest, the more that I thought about it, the more that I actually think that's a good idea. Just throwing that out there. Okay, I just got to throw this out there now that you mentioned Tony Hawk.
    109:15
    Do you know I was Tony Hawk's bitch for a day? What? Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Not in a sexual way, Travis. Put your porn down. What?
    109:35
    Nobody, I'm 37 years old, and I've never heard that sentence ever said in my entire life. I'm truly intrigued. Starting with did you know? No. No, we did not, Tom. So where I originally grew up, they opened a skate park. and where I worked, I was in charge of making sure Tony Hawk had everything he wanted for the day. So like literally I had to bug this poor guy every five minutes. Tony, do you want a soda? Tony, do you want a sandwich? Tony, this guy probably thought I was fucking annoying, But my boss was like, you make sure that he gets everything he wants. How old were you when this was going on? I was like 16, 18. And so how old's Tony?
    110:28
    He was probably in his 20s. That'd be early 20s. His wife was there and his kids. He couldn't be the nicest guy on the frickin' planet. But he did like chicken sandwiches. So he's no Dennis Creasel, but he's nice is what I'm hearing. Right. Oh, okay. This is a transition right here. This just popped in my head. This is a shout-out to Raymond Davidson. Raymond Davidson on our Discord posted this, and I don't know what this is from. It's like a clip from a podcast, but he sent it to the Discord. I know we got flack for apparently we have too many sound bites, but I'm going to play this because this is amazing. Because of Dennis Creasel. Because of Dennis Creasel and also he who shall not be named. So, but, okay, Tom, I mean, not to cut your story short, but that's an incredible story about Tom.
    111:22
    Tony Hawk. But, yeah, so here we go. I'm going to play this. Enjoy. Crime rate is low. She comes in and says, okay, I live in a trailer, this whole thing. First of all, let's tell you who lives in this trailer. Let's start out with that, okay? It's a trailer in Wyoming. named Dee Himes, her boyfriend, Dennis David, which that is not a good name. I do not like that name. Dennis David? No. David Dennis would be a much better name than Dennis David. I don't like that name. Dennis as a last name is much better than as a first name. It's not a good first name. No. Dennis is like what you name someone in a movie who you want people to think is an asshole. Right. Like Dennis the Menace is because, well, it rhymes with menace, number one. But number two, he's supposed to be like a little shit. He's not supposed to be, like, a nice guy. Dennis on Always Sunny is supposed to be a dick, and his name fits it. It just fits him perfectly. He's so good at it. That guy's great. Oh, he's a fucking great actor. He's hilarious. But Dennis is an asshole. You're naming, like, he's our asshole character. What do we name him? Dennis. Yeah, that's the one. So Dennis is that. So her boyfriend, Dennis David, and also living there. Yeah, I mean, incredible. Dennis David versed off way better than the other way around I don't know if you guys agree or not but he posted that and Dennis basically what was Dennis' response? He's like I've been fighting against this my whole life and that's why I try to win people over with my wit and charm or something like that but shout out to Tiki Raymond for posting that and yeah, any Dennis listeners if you agree or disagree, once again feel free to email us at tripledrain.gmail.com yeah, I don't know Well, I had to include that. But good to know, Tom. So I'm glad that you've served Tony Hawkwell. And he probably remembers you because you did such a great job.
    113:19
    Well, once again, another great transition here. Speaking of memorable, this is easily the most memorable segment of our podcast. I know a lot of people actually fast forward to this. They listen specifically for this segment. It is everybody's favorite segment. it's not triple combo that's what you're wanting it is the one the only Tom Talks alright Travis you are you got the prompt he has it on a piece of paper everybody How many parts does it have?
    114:08
    Nilsdad You broke my heart and crushed my dreams at Freeplay Florida Thanks to your pick of Cosmos This past weekend you played in a tournament at District 82 To where you also broke the heart and crushed the dreams Of a 12 year old How does that feel? feels great alright and that was Stump Talks
    114:46
    Stump Talks I guess not incredible a 12 year old? that kid was good did he cry? no I was talking about Travis He eliminated Travis Fitz. I did, definitely. You know, I have to say that I know everybody watching at home and at District 82 was rooting against me the entire time.
    115:14
    I even wanted that freaking kid to win. You could have let him. That's true, I could have. But, hey, I was rooting for you, Tom. There was IMPA points on that line. There was a whopper. What was the game? Tommy. Not the Who. Not the Who game. Definitely not the Who game. Just the regular Tommy. Well, what was funny about it on Flintstones, he had an excellent comeback that eliminated Nill, and it made me realize Nill at 17 years old has officially aged out of pinball.
    115:48
    Yeah. Yes. That's awesome. Well, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, Tom. hopefully that kid comes back, but that's good for him. 12 years old. And that's awesome. Yeah. Cool. Second place at a large, how many people were there? Like 57 or 53 people. Yeah. And, uh, I did end up, uh, giving him the translate. I won for, uh, cause, uh, trying to be a nice guy.
    116:19
    Heavy metal. You match that? It's like Tom wins, and he's holding up the trophy. Then he has the trans light, and he just looks at the kid, and he goes, here you go, slugger. He just hands it off to him. It was Star Wars. Gotcha. Well, speaking of trophies, jeez, I'm telling you, these transitions, they just happen, and you just go with them.
    116:44
    We want to make a comment, and this may be somewhat controversial, but coming up is the Twippies. And the Twippies are not, you know, for some people, it's everything. That's what they're shooting for. For others, they don't care at all.
    116:57
    What I will tell you is, as creators, they are cool. It is somewhat of a People's Choice Awards, and I know that there are people that have pros and cons against that. Some think they're rigged, and others think they're the best way to show overall like, whether or not you like it or not. But I will just tell you, the Twippy voting comes out, I think, in like a week, and there's nominations, so you've got to get nominated before you even get voted for. if you feel so inclined if you have enjoyed the last 10 episodes and you want to continue to put food on on neil's dad's table feel free to feel free to nominate i do we do we expect to win no absolutely not zero chance but um you know make top 10 that would be pretty cool i'm not gonna complain about that 10 episodes top 10 i don't travis you're you you look like emperor palpatine over there with you put your head up in your dark room i'm just i'm just listening to your pitch here i forgot i told you before i forgot the twippies was going on until we uh we talked about it but yes yes vote for don't vote for joel no don't vote for nil's dad no vote for me don't vote for mark okay if you're really here we go we could just fill out we could literally fill out Is this where we play the Mark Silk, Travis?
    118:19
    No, I replaced it with the Dennis. No, I have it right here. This is your entire Trophy Ballot. You ready? Marv Loco, YouTube, all pinball podcast podcasts, triple drain podcast, just another pinball podcast. Actually, just focus on triple drain. Fox City's pinball for streaming, just another pinball stream, flipping out for streaming. Anything? I mean, Travis, that's pretty much our whole ballot, and that's ridiculous that the three of us are involved in all that crap. Yeah.
    118:49
    I'll admit. It may be a little much. Well, the whole idea of the Twippies and us even being on a ballot, it's weird to me. Yeah. But I will say, guys, listeners out there, Joel does work hard. He helps Neil's dad and I get through. Sure. He might be late when we're supposed to record. Not that late. He might forget what time we're supposed to record. But damn it, when he shows up, he's halfway professional. So, yes. Yes, please. Now, in all reality, I would be appreciative of it. I think it would be pretty cool.
    119:26
    I'll go ahead and say, since Joel's convinced me, I'm all in. Nominate us. Send us to the promised land. I hope we get the call up to New York or where is this held at? Where's the Twippy's at? TPF. Okay, TPF. Well, even better because I'll be there, and I will be willing to not leave the tournament area for it, but, you know, Joel might. Tom, are you going to be in TPF? Hold on a second. I'm writing an email to my mom to vote for us on the Twippy. Oh, perfect. Oh, my gosh. Neither one of you are even going to be there, are you? I don't know. The verdict is still out for me. I will not be there. Okay, so Tom won't be there. Hey, let's say right now, if I make the ballot, the top ten ballot, that sure helps my argument on being able to try to get there. Oh, yeah. Are they doing the top ten podcast? I have no idea. Is there even ten pinball podcasts? Yes, there are definitely more than ten pinball podcasts. Yeah, there is. Okay, good, because that would have been awkward if we were on two of them out of like four. Feel free to put Triple Drain podcast number one. And if you really can't think of another one and you just want to give that small ounce of sympathy to somebody who just needs it more than anybody I know, write Silver Ball Chronicles for number two.
    120:44
    But, yeah, it's just throwing it out there. But, yeah, do what you want. And believe it or not, if your Twippy votes are needed elsewhere, fine. You can go to Silver Ball Swag and buy us a shirt. That's fine, too. You can support us in plenty of other ways.
    121:02
    We have merch, don't we? We do have merch. Travis, you still do not own any of it. I know. I need to make you a hoodie. That's what I said. I need to make you a hoodie.
    121:10
    And we've joked around about making a Patreon. If anybody would actually pay for a Patreon, send us an email, and it'll probably be you and us. It'll be one person. The best way you could go, if you ever did want to actually donate, go to Fox Cities on Twitch for Tom's tournament streams. And then I guess you could go on just another pinball stream when Joel streams whenever he has his games not folded up. Yeah. There's that. Finish in his basement.
    121:46
    Yep. Donate it on Tom's stream and just say this is for Joel. Tom actually got Tom have you even talked about I haven't said it publicly but yes I received a donation a big one to help out with my stream which I am going to use for my stream and buy some new HDMI wireless transmitters whoever is out there whoever did that thank you truly thank you it's streaming What you're doing for streaming tournaments is incredible. It's incredible for the hobby. And when I stream, I'm literally just joking around with like 30 people at a time. But every time you're streaming, I mean, there are hundreds of people watching. And these are high-end competitive players that want to see high-end competitive gameplay. And the fact that somebody was willing to donate money to improve the quality of that for all of us to enjoy is incredible. So that's awesome. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we'll just roll right into plugs. I think I literally already plugged us all. Yeah, I think we're good. Giggity. Perfect.
    122:59
    I haven't plugged my stuff yet, Joel. Go for it. I said Marv Loco. Did you? Yeah. Marv Loco, a pinball podcast. It's not a. It's a.
    123:10
    Debatable. Samantha. Tomato, tomato. If you do anything else, I could hit your button. I'll get your button, but I'm not going to. No, no, no, no, no. I don't need my button hit anymore tonight. I appreciate it, though. Okay, perfect. Nope, I'm good. Nope, you guys can find me on YouTube at Marv Loco, or find me on iTunes or somewhere, or one of the podcatchers for A Pinball Podcast, or you can see me on Palm Stream every now and again, which is like every few months, or you can find me on just another pinball stream every few months as well, or you can find me on Flippin' Out Pinball stream every few months, too. So, yeah, I get around. You get around. He's everywhere.
    123:53
    Everywhere. You're not going to plug Triple Drain while you're at it? Oh, yeah. I did plug that, didn't I? Yeah. All right. Tom, was there anything I left off for you? No. Good. Well, cool. Well, if you need to get a hold of me, just know at pinball.gmail.com or actually just email tripledrain at gmail.com. And, yeah, that's all I've got. Like always, Tom, you got the last word. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We'll see you later.