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Episode 133 - John Hughes Pinball

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 25m·held·Jan 25, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Eclectic Gamers debates John Hughes films as pinball themes

Summary

Dennis and Tony from Eclectic Gamers Podcast discuss pinball industry news (Pinball Industry Awards, Pinball Hall of Fame fundraising crisis) and then conduct an extensive deep-dive analysis of which John Hughes directed films would make the best pinball machines. They evaluate 16 Candles, The Breakfast Club, Weird Science, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, and Planes Trains and Automobiles, discussing toy mechanics, rule design, and thematic fit for each potential game.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Industry Awards ceremony is scheduled for January 28th at 9 p.m. Eastern via YouTube Premiere

    high confidence · Dennis states this as factual information about the awards ceremony

  • Pinball Hall of Fame is undertaking a $10 million building project and has set up a $200,000 GoFundMe

    high confidence · Dennis provides detailed information about the HOF's construction project and fundraising effort

  • As of recording time, the Pinball Hall of Fame GoFundMe had raised just over $75,000 of the $200,000 target

    high confidence · Dennis cites the current fundraising total at time of recording

  • Dennis predicts the Pinball Hall of Fame GoFundMe will not reach $200,000, possibly reaching $100,000

    medium confidence · Dennis expresses this as his assessment based on typical Kickstarter/fundraising patterns

  • The Pinball Hall of Fame's funding shortfall is due to pandemic-related revenue decline after selling their Tropicana building

    high confidence · Dennis explains the situation based on available information

  • John Hughes directed eight films, all from the 1980s except one from 1991

    high confidence · Tony cites this as factual information about Hughes' directorial filmography

  • Tony believes Planes Trains and Automobiles is the best holiday movie ever made

    high confidence · Tony states this as his personal opinion

  • Dennis believes Ferris Bueller's Day Off is Hughes' best film among the eight directed movies

    high confidence · Dennis expresses this as his assessment of critical opinion

Notable Quotes

  • “this is one of those things where you're going to see how the sausage is made”

    Dennis @ Early in episode — Meta-commentary acknowledging technical difficulties with episode numbering at the start of the show

  • “I finished that, and I noticed when I had finished it that my total Battletech playtime, I thought I would share was just over 405 hours”

    Tony @ Game discussion segment — Illustrates Tony's gaming habits and commitment to single-game playthroughs

  • “I think Planes, Trains and Automobiles is probably the best holiday movie ever made”

    Tony @ Movie discussion segment — Tony's strong opinion on the film's quality as a holiday movie versus Ferris Bueller

  • “honestly, I'm not going to get the $200,000 because as we know, just like Kickstarters, it's like first day, last day is when most of the money comes in”

    Dennis @ Pinball Hall of Fame discussion — Dennis explains fundraising dynamics that inform his prediction about the GoFundMe

  • “I honestly cannot figure out how to make 16 candles a good pinball machine”

    Dennis @ John Hughes pinball discussion — Expresses the core challenge of adapting 16 Candles as a pinball theme

  • “She's not having a pinball machine, that's for sure”

    Dennis @ She's Having a Baby discussion — Humorous dismissal of She's Having a Baby's viability as a pinball theme

  • “The Breakfast Club doesn't have a whole lot of scenes outside of that. No, it is very much a ship in the bottle type thing”

    Tony @ Breakfast Club analysis — Identifies the single-location constraint as both a design challenge and opportunity

  • “Ferris Bueller, it leads itself to a linear storyline building up towards a wizard mode. It leads itself to all sorts of things you can do”

    Dennis @ Ferris Bueller analysis — Identifies Ferris Bueller's structural fit for pinball game design

Entities

DennispersonTonypersonTim ArnoldpersonJohn HughespersonPinball Industry AwardseventPinball Hall of FameorganizationUncle Pinball's PodcastorganizationPinsideorganizationEclectic Gamers PodcastorganizationFerris Bueller's Day OffgamePlanes Trains and Automobilesgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Hall of Fame facing significant funding shortfall for $10 million construction project despite selling previous property

    high · Dennis reports $10 million project with $200k GoFundMe target; raised $75k with only $200k goal; pandemic revenue decline cited as cause

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Mixed community sentiment on Pinball Hall of Fame GoFundMe with skepticism expressed on Pinside forums

    medium · Dennis notes 'a lot of skepticism expressed, namely on Pennside' regarding appropriateness of supporting capital project versus operational needs

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Extended analysis of how film narrative structure and visual elements translate to pinball game mechanics and toy design

    high · Hosts discuss rule flows, wizard modes, toy concepts, and ball locks for each potential John Hughes theme adaptation

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Industry Awards ceremony scheduled for January 28th

    high · Dennis confirms ceremony is set for January 28th at 9 p.m. Eastern via YouTube Premiere

  • $

    market_signal: Nostalgia-driven licensed IP themes (1980s films) remain attractive for new pinball game development

    medium · Tony cites excitement around Goonies, Wonka, and 80s licensed themes as motivation for John Hughes discussion

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.257

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, January 24th. This is episode 132. 33? 132. No. 132. Yeah. It's 132. Okay. We have two copies of it in our OneNote. That's what I was noticing. It's like, why are there two 132s in the note list? Yeah, I saw that the other day also, and it was like, what? When I tried to make the copy last night to start it. I ended up with a double, and I thought I'd delete it. Now I've tried to delete it again, so we should only be on the good one. Okay. That works. I was just like weirded out for a second I'm like huh why is there when the people are like we don't understand you aren't supposed to understand just accept that this is what our life is but yes this is 133 you're seeing how the sausage is made that's all you're doing but this is actually 133 it is actually 133 yes so maybe we inadvertently lost the notes to 132 we must have overwritten the notes to which is okay because we were done with that show. But I have now renamed it, so it says 133 in the OneNote. And I confirm because I actually, when I work on the final projects, I name them by episode number and I have the last five of the projects still. And so 132 was the last one we did on the 10th. So this is 133. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to 133. Okay. I'm Dennis. I'm Tony. The rest of the episode will go a lot smoother than this. We promise. We super promise. We'll see what happens, possibly. Tony, it's been a couple weeks since we did 1.32. It has. So what's happened before 1.33 has started here? Before 1.33 has started here in the last two weeks, I had mentioned that I was doing another playthrough, a career playthrough of Battletech. I finished that, and I noticed when I had finished it that my total Battletech playtime, I thought I would share was just over 405 hours. That's a lot. I decided maybe it was enough time playing vanilla Battletech. So I installed mods. And now I'm up to 430 hours of playtime.
2:42
That's a lot of Battletech. So, I don't think it is my most played game. I'm pretty sure it is my second most played game right now nope, no, it is my most played game by like double yeah, as I say if you were to combine series like maybe Civilization would pass it if you combined multiple versions of the game yeah, I think Civ 5 is up there I know for the longest time, Torchlight was one of my highest, and it's only in the 250-hour range.

  • “You don't have to be around a vehicle itself either... you could do something involving the cab or something about the desk clerk scenarios inside the rental place”

    Tony @ Planes Trains Automobiles discussion — Demonstrates creative toy and mode design thinking for the film

  • “not just because it contains Steve Martin and John Candy in what is arguably the best movie either of them were in”

    Tony @ Planes Trains Automobiles introduction — Tony's strong assessment of the film quality and performances

    • The Breakfast Clubgame
    Weird Sciencegame
    16 Candlesgame
    She's Having a Babygame
    Ready Player Twoproduct
    Molly Ringwaldperson
    Steve Martinperson
    John Candyperson
    Alan Ruckperson
    Ben Steinperson
    3:27
    So it's, yeah, yeah. And Civ V's 220 hours. So, yeah, no, it's like double my next most played game from the look of it. So, I have a problem, maybe? Question mark? Maybe. I don't know. But the new mod, there's like three major mods for this game, and they're basically how far from the vanilla game and towards tabletop play and extra stuff you add. I have installed the lowest tier of them that has basically a whole lot more systems. It goes from just a little corner of the galaxy to the entire inner sphere and most of the major periphery nations. And adds like all of the mechs. and it pulls straight from lore and has an actual running timeline.
    4:36
    And as you hit the day that things happened in lore in the game, those things happen. So when major wars start, when planets change hands and are captured, the map will actually change to match the ongoing changes in the timeline. And this is like a third-party mod? Yeah, this is a third-party mod, and it's been awesome. Like, almost addictively fun.
    5:10
    And it's because the original game started in 3025 and lasted for a couple years, basically. This mod that I'm playing specifically starts in 3025, and the timeline stuff ends in 3057. And my goal is to push all the way through if I can. So we'll see. I'm currently in 3026.
    5:33
    I think you can do it. I believe in you. Yeah. It might take a few more hours, though. Yeah, a couple more. I think the next big thing to happen is the Fourth Succession War starts in 3028, and that lasts a couple or three years, and then there's just little stuff, and then there's the War of 3039, and then the next thing after that is the Klan invasion in 3049.
    6:01
    So I got a ways to go. But in addition to all that, my wife got a new puppy. We went and picked a new puppy up, and that involved a road trip to southern Missouri. and man I can't tell you how much I had missed like doing road trips and stuff until I actually did a road trip it was such a great day just the drive I mean yeah getting the puppy and doing all that stuff that was great too but just the drive and the seeing stuff and being new places was something I've missed I might have to do another long ambling drive for no reason other than the drive thing here before too long because it just made for a nice, fun-filled, fulfilling day of not just being trapped down at home or work. Well, they say variety is the spice of life. And your favorite variety is the drive-around-in-car variety. Yeah, I am one of those people. I enjoy driving. I like windshield time. Well, I haven't gone anywhere. I don't get no drive time, except to and from the office, which I've been so far been able to do still just weekly, even though the legislative session's going. They've made some changes in light of coronavirus. So a lot of the stuff is remote. I think they spent $10 million on upgrades. And unfortunately, their system doesn't show it as well as you might have hoped. So that's been unfortunate. it. But in terms of on-topic sort of stuff, I did finish Maneater, the game where you play as a shark.
    7:48
    How was it? It was okay. I think it, I struggled at first. I didn't realize where, how to move on. And so I was in an area that I was really too high for, for too long. And I felt like it was taking forever to make any progress. And once I realized that I could actually go to another section, like it wasn't going to just warp me to a new zone after I cleared everything in the starter zone it started to go a lot faster and I was able to better maximize my my shark because it started to get awfully repetitive and I I think had I not done that it probably would have felt like a really good balanced game but given my overt time in the starter zone I it ran it for me it ran long like I felt like I was doing the same stuff for too much but I think that's my own fault yeah so it's all right it's an okay game uh it's fairly mindless it's it's pretty simplistic uh and so since then i have been playing uh doom eternal the sequel to doom 2016 awesome soundtrack it's very metal uh i think i'm near the end for those that have played the game i have finished the con maker fight so uh as of this morning so i am i think i'm near the end of the game i expect i'll probably be done with it here in the next week and then i will have to pick something else to move on to i haven't decided exactly what yet but but no it's time we got to keep moving i got stuff i'm thinking maybe control i have control that was a christmas gift uh and i think that'll probably be the next game i go ahead and play but uh speaking of games we have some stuff to talk about not a ton but a little bit in both pinball and video games it's that time of year it is uh as as is the nature of early winter sorts of stuff. It's usually a fairly slow time. So let's go ahead and start with pinball like we normally would. And so I have three things here for us to cover. One is your topic that we'll end with, and I think it's probably going to be the one that's most interesting. But to get through the news items first, which are the first two, the first is just a quick update, Pinball Industry Awards. I do have a link in the show notes to the website if people want to get additional information. But the awards ceremony is set to be on January 28th. That's going to be at 9 p.m. Eastern, and I believe that will be via YouTube Premiere. That's my understanding of the plan. And so if you're interested in that, tune in. And since it'll be on YouTube after the fact, you can always see the recording if that is of note. Second news item is Pinball Hall of Fame. So the Pinball Hall of Fame, which is located in Las Vegas, they have set up a GoFundMe because they have run out of funds while they're in the process of constructing their new building. And I don't know, Tony, do you recall, I think the new building's been, that started before COVID. I think that's, it's been about 18 months or so. Yeah. I thought the original talking about it and then I thought construction started before COVID. Yeah. I think so. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it did. So anyway, nutshell summary is it's basically a $10 million project.
    10:56
    And so the proprietor of the Pinball Hall of Fame, Tim Arnold, has set up a $200,000 GoFundMe to try and complete the raising of the funds that he believes he needs to finish the building off. And my understanding of the reason for the shortfall is they no longer – they sold their building on Tropicana where the Hall of Fame has been located. And they've been leasing it and continuing to operate. But because of the pandemic, they are not bringing in nearly as enough money as their projections had. So it has not generated the funds that they thought would close the gap out to finish the bill. That's my understanding of the nutshell summary. there. Tim has participated in an interview. It's split into two parts with Uncle Pinball's podcast. I do have a link to both of those episodes in the show notes. So if people want to hear Tim, I know some people online have asked a lot of questions about like, well, why doesn't he sell more games or why didn't he consider this or that? And some of those are answered in those interviews. So it's a good place to turn regarding that. As of the time that Tony and I are recording this episode, the GoFundMe has raised a little over $75,000 and the target amount is $200,000. So my assessment at this point, given that this all broke about just over a week ago, really. So I don't think he's going to get the $200,000 because as we know, just like Kickstarters, it's like first day, last day is when most of the money comes in. And so I think most of the, I mean, maybe he'll get to $100,000. I don't know, but I just don't see it happening. This this my assessment. Not everyone's on board with this. There has been a lot of skepticism expressed, namely on Pennside, but I've even had some people reach out to me asking some questions about if the nonprofit has run well, is this a good use of money, is this the appropriate,
    12:50
    should we be supporting someone that's trying to put in a new building rather than support someone that is just trying to keep operating because, I mean, when you look at it on the surface and you say, who does a $10 million build in the middle of a pandemic sort of thing? So I have not researched this charity. I don't have the time to do it. So I can't tell you whether or not it's, in my opinion, if it's well run or not well run. A lot of people really like the Pinball Hall of Fame. A lot of people don't like the way that this is going about, but that's not unusual for such a large ask in the middle of unprecedented times. So anyway, it's just it's but it's the interesting news that's happening. So here we are just reporting the facts. Yeah, it's one of those things that you do what feels right for yourself. Yep. I'm not I don't I don't really have an opinion one way or another as to, you know, is this a good use of funds or not? That's it's because it is a nonprofit. It's, I believe, tax deductible, at least normally straight donations to the organization would be. I don't know if GoFundMe complicates that or not, but I'm sure if you're concerned, you can always reach out to Tim and ask him about doing something else with getting a notice or something. GoFundMe doesn't provide you with what you need for your tax forms or whatever. Yeah, I have very limited experience with GoFundMe. Yeah, yeah. I can't think – I don't know if I've ever used it to send anyone money. I don't think I have. So now we're ready for our last pinball topic, and this is the Tony topic, and this is going to be the fun one. So, Tony, why don't you explain your idea here? Because you brought this up with me several days ago, and I thought, oh, this is easily going to be our pinball content for this episode. Yeah. Well, this is one of those things where I'm going to preface it with how I got to where I was.
    14:37
    I was reading the sequel to Ready Player One, Ready Player Two, which I've now completed the read of. and I realized while reading it because if anybody's read Ready Player One or seen the movie or anything like that you know it's just a giant nostalgia fest Ready Player Two is more of the same like the first one it has a lot of references to John Hughes actually if anything it has more references to John Hughes and it got me thinking that you know what we always talk about licensed themes and people have been so excited talking about Goonies and other licensed scenes from the 80s and 70s, you know, Goonies, Wonka, all that.
    15:20
    What John Hughes movie would be the best choice to be made into a pinball machine for nostalgia reasons? Now, if you've never looked up John Hughes on IMDb, I highly recommend you do it because we had to go ahead and throw in a caveat on this. we're only going to go with the John Hughes directed movies because that pulls us down to just eight movies as opposed to his writer movies that he wrote which is in the 50s yeah he wrote a lot and he produced over 20 films too so that's even a pretty extensive list and directing really fits with your narrative because they're all from the 80s except one was from 91 So it really does stick with the 80s quite well.
    16:12
    And honestly, these eight are the ones that most of the time when people talk about a John Hughes movie, these are the movies they're referencing. Yeah, I agree. It's usually what's directed. And that's often the case with writer-directors. It's usually we think of the director as the person who has the most ownership over the film. Right. So, just to get started, I'm going to go through the eight movies real quick, and then we'll start discussing thoughts and merits. Okay. We're going to start chronologically from the first one, 16 Candles, then The Breakfast Club, Weird Science, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, She's Having a Baby, Uncle Buck, and Curly Sue. Are there any of these you haven't seen? No. I can't remember if I've seen She's Having a Baby. I've seen She's Having a Baby once. Okay. I remember specifically because of several of the scenes with Kevin Bacon are recognizable to me. Well, I can tell you something. She's not having a pinball machine, that's for sure. Yeah. Because if you've seen it once, and I can't remember it, I don't think she's going to do very well. No. I'm just speculating. Well, it's the same way with Curly Sue. I saw it once. I saw it in theaters.
    17:45
    I don't recall seeing it in theaters. I just recall seeing it. I think a lot of people do not think of Curly Sue when they think of John Hughes movies. No. But I do remember it. It does not fall into what I consider John. Well, the thing is, is we go through these, but certain movies that I consider a quintessential John Hughes movie isn't in this list of movies he directed. Now, before... Because it doesn't include Pretty in Pink. Right. It doesn't include Mr. Mom.
    18:15
    Those are both John Hughes movies that are some of the first movies that pop up into my head when I think John Hughes. Right, because he wrote them. He wrote them, but he didn't direct them. Yeah, I actually... I always think of like he wrote Home Alone. So that's one that stands out to me.
    18:30
    He wrote the dog movies. The Beethoven movies are his. Yep. For writing credit. Uncle Buck. Well, he did. Did he direct Uncle Buck? Oh, there's another. There's another one of the Great Outdoors. Yeah, he directed Uncle Buck also. Which I probably think of as a John Candy movie first before Uncle Buck. Yeah. No, it's a, he actually had, I think, I think he had, let's see, Uncle Buck in Great Outdoors, and then John Candy was also in Vacation, the original Vacation. Yep. So that's three movies with John Candy right there.
    19:10
    So we could do a whole nother list of these that is what John Candy movie best deserves to be a pet. You know what, that will be a fun one, but let's, you know, we'll hold that for the future, because, oh, I love me some John Candy. Oh, me too. Me too. So staying with just these eight,
    19:27
    and we've already knocked off, let's say, pretty obviously she's having a baby. She's not going to make the list for our cut, our choice of this. Now, I have a question. Yes. We're going to try and pick for us what we think, which one would make the best pinball machine. But I'm curious, which one of these eight do you think is his best movie? Because that's not necessarily the same thing. Interesting. Because if I were to say what I think the public thinks, I think it's one of two. I think it's either The Breakfast Club or it's Ferris Bueller. Right. I think that was probably where most – well, even there, I think I'm going to have to – I think the public would probably go with one of those two. depending upon when they grew up, because I have talked to people in the past, uh, who have a very strong affinity for 16 canvas. Yeah. But all these movies are like within two years of each other.
    20:26
    Right. But they're also very different, uh, feel and they appeal to different people because, because 16 of candles is appealing to a very different demographic than Ferris Bueller's Day. I agree. I agree. And I would say also, for those that are more into the straight up comedy style, I think Planes, Trains and Automobiles might actually rise to the top of their list. See, and that's where I was debating between Ferris and Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Well, I think Planes, Trains is a lot funnier than Ferris Bueller. Right. I think Planes, Trains and Automobiles is probably the best holiday movie ever made. see I don't love it like I prefer Ferris Bueller to Planes and Trains see I prefer Planes and Trains I don't mind Ferris Bueller but I prefer Planes and Trains and Automobiles it is one of those movies that just it hits the whole holiday thing just perfect for me And it hilarious Okay so those are our thoughts of kind of where we think most people and us are Like, I guess if I were to pick of all these, which do I think would be seen as his best movie, I would go with Ferris Bueller. But that's not necessarily what I would pick for Pinball, though.
    21:41
    Right. And I will say, I think Ferris Bueller has solid arguments for a pinball game because it can definitely have the kind of story and mode flow built into it with how the game plays. I just don't know that it would be the best for that. We'll start here. We'll go over each of them just a little bit, thinking about them as a pinball machine.
    22:17
    And I honestly cannot figure out how to make 16 candles a good pinball machine. Yeah, I... I thought about it since we first talked about this. I've thought about it. And in all honesty, it's not in this list. I think it'd be easier to make pretty in pink than 16 candles. Yeah. I mean, it's just like one of the things I try and go to when I think about designing a game around a known theme is like, what toy or toys would I do? And there's just nothing like I'm not saying you couldn't you couldn't find things like the cake with the candles or something, you know, but it's like there's nothing that just is iconic visually to me about that movie. No.
    23:07
    No. I mean, really, the iconic visual thing about that movie is a young Molly Ringwald. Right. That's it. Well, I guess, yeah, because the whole movie is about her constantly being embarrassed. So there's not a set piece. It's just, I mean, it's a romantic comedy. I don't know how to make it work. Maybe if I was smarter, I could, but I just don't. And if you have an idea, let us know. Yeah. Write in to EffectiveGamersPodcast at gmail.com. because I would be really interested to hear it. All right. So we're both in agreement that we can't make 16 Candles work. Right. So we'll go next. Breakfast Club. Once again, Molly Ringwald vehicle.
    23:55
    Probably one of the most iconic 80s teen films out there. Good soundtrack. I can see this. it has enough interesting story and plot points and stuff where you could lay out some rules.
    24:13
    You could do some interesting things with it. I still have a problem coming up with a really good toy. Yeah. I don't have a great toy in mind, but the nice thing is because it, it almost not obviously not quite, but it almost is a, a one scene movie. So the setting of doing the layout around the detention area of the school is obvious. And, you know, getting you that immersion, that well under glass of feeling like you're shooting the ball in the detention area. That part, I think, lends itself really well because the breakfast club doesn't have a whole lot of scenes outside of that. No, it is very much a ship in the bottle type thing. I mean, maybe for a toy, cribbing a little bit from the iconic photo with them all sitting on the railing and doing something with like a railing, maybe having an elaborate ramp that is the railing. Maybe that's a ball lock. I could see something like that. Something like that, or I could see doing a dancing video mode type thing that pops up on the screen. And since there are five of them in the detention, I think it lends itself to saying you can easily have five shots that are corresponding to those characters to collect them. And you could do some simple, like, you know, the guy, maybe do the letter jacket for the jock, the fingerless leather glove for the punk sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, no, I definitely think there is some solid things you could do with that. so breakfast club works better than 16 candles yeah I think it works quite a bit better now to the one that you know I don't always think about this being a John Hughes movie I didn't remember it was but I do think it has good potential as a pinball machine is of course weird science because it has the potential through the sheer amount of kind of crazy things that happen and the way the story builds up and the big party at the end and all the interactions. I think there's some fun stuff you could do. Plus, it's hard to go wrong when you've got a movie with Bill Paxton in it. True. And he plays a monster.
    26:39
    There's actually so many people that I don't think about being in this movie because I mainly think about this movie, you know, Anthony Michael Hall, But I mean, Bill Paxton's in this movie. Robert Downey Jr.'s in this movie.
    26:51
    It's kind of surprising, actually. But I think it could have some decent potential. Now, it's been a long time since I've seen that. I don't remember this movie as well as some of the others. I do think in terms of a toy, you could use a computer as a centralized toy. Right. Given the concept of them designing the woman. There's some stuff from the film that had... There are other things, though. I think there's a scene with a girl in the chimney, so you could do something with a chimney.
    27:22
    Yeah, there's... I still like the computer idea better. I think the computer idea would be probably the best. And, again, then you run into the whole, what are you playing into? Because this movie was so 1980s geek stereotype thing. I don't know a good way to put it I think it might fit in better With the aesthetic of pinball In the 80s Than the aesthetic of pinball Today Yeah I kind of agree With that It has potential It's so wacky that there's a lot of weird stuff You could do There's a lot of weird stuff you could really get away with It could make for a pretty funny pin I'd say funnier than either 16 Candles or the Bride Breakfast Club would be. But as we move around this list, there are much better options, I think, than Weird Science. I agree.
    28:21
    All right. So that moves us up to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And yeah, this. Don't DMCA me, please. Yeah.
    28:33
    Please, I didn't do a good impression. Please. Someone's beating on your door. What's that sound? It's the Recording Companies of America. They're mad. they want their money nirvana sent them for me and it's not even their song napster throwback for everyone who didn't know about that actually it wasn't nirvana was it was metallica i screwed it up that's a really i'm leaving that in i'm leaving that in we'll just leave it and it happens we're not perfect we're doing it live all right so ferris bueller as i noted i think of these eight movies his strongest.
    29:12
    Yeah, of these eight movies, I think you're probably, it's up there. I prefer Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, but I think most people will agree with you on that. I think the broad public, I am the everyman. You are the elitist scum. I'm the elitist scum at this point. I think you're right. I think most people will agree with you. Ferris Bueller, Guy Cutton Class, and Going on Zany Adventure. Yeah, and it's literally, it's zany fun adventure stuff. It leads itself to a linear storyline building up towards a wizard mode. It leads itself to all sorts of things you can do.
    29:51
    The parade singing scene would be beautiful for a hurry up with very specific targets to continue the song. Stuff like that. I think this one is the best of the ones we've seen so far. Yeah. Now, and there's so much stuff toys-wise that, I mean, you could do something around the car. You could do something around Ferris' room because he had that elaborate, like, you know, you've got the baseball glove and the audio recording of him being sick. And, you know, just take one of those and make it something in the game you could get away with. Something from the parade as well could be done. And, yeah, it would lend itself really well to either a linear approach or you could still – ultimately, the wizard mode is try and get back home before your parents, and you just do the various stuff from the movie in any order you want, like parade or trying to roll back the odometer or Cameron falling in the pool. That wouldn't be a bad toy right there if you could set something up and have the – when you hit it, So it looks like the garage and then you hit it and the car pops out of the garage like it's falling. That'd be a pretty cool tour. Or a shot where you hit something and you see a Rooney with his pant legs shredded getting on and off the bus. Yeah. Oh. Hmm. A gummy bear. We have to put a warm dessert in the pocket. Have a gummy bear in there. Pocket gummy bear. Pocket gummy bear hurry up.
    31:32
    Because you've got to eat them while they're still warm. the car garage thing would make for a solid ball lock. You lock the balls, and then when it releases, it pops out and balls start dropping out of it. So that was something like, I think it's got a lot of potential. And, I mean, hmm, that's tough. I think if I was going to push here for getting somebody to do call-outs for that game, I'd want Alan Ruck. yeah i mean probably reasonably achievable obvious one but i think alan ruck would actually work better i think yeah i think i mean in some ways it's almost like cameron was the third eye viewer of a lot of the stuff going on because obviously it's him and it's ferris and ferris's his girlfriend uh yeah sloan i think was her name yeah so so yeah i mean those yeah i think so i would agree Alan Rourke would be my pick. Yeah, because that movie, it always felt like Cameron was the audience member in everything. Unless you wanted to go ahead and do something really more off the wall like get Ben Stein. You could.
    32:46
    What's he doing now? We're not winning his money anymore. Yeah. I have no idea what Ben Stein's doing anymore. No, he's probably retired. I would assume so. Let me see. because he's what? Mid-70s, I think.
    33:01
    Yeah, he was born in 44. He had something come out as recently as 2019, but it was just voice acting. He was in the last Sharknado. The last Sharknado.
    33:15
    I see they have something announced with him coming up, so I guess he is still somewhat active. He doesn't do a lot of stuff. He doesn't really need to do a lot of stuff. He's never been prolific. No.
    33:29
    And a lot of what he did was TVs and voice stuff. Okay, so of these first four, I think, regardless of my opinion of Ferris Bueller as a movie, which is pretty high, I think it's the strongest of the four thus far. I think so.
    33:43
    But this moves us to... Your favorite. Planes, trains, and automobiles. It is. not just because it contains Steve Martin and John Candy in what is arguably the best movie either of them were in. And that's saying a lot because John Candy and Steve Martin both had a lot of good movies, and for them both to be in this movie and it be so strong, I quite enjoyed it. I think the whole story here, much like in Ferris Bueller works because it's just a series of linked attempts to get home because you've got the airports closed and the car rental issues and just everything they have to go through to continue this entire trip back home lends itself to modes.
    34:50
    And it's just so darn funny. Yeah, and this is one that I've seen a few times, but it's been a while since. Toy-wise, this would be a game that works really well around this theme, though. Just because of all the vehicular things you could build around as set pieces. You could do one to three easily. It's just easily. And there's other stuff from just the weird – I mean you could do something involving the cab or you do something about the – I'm trying – with one of the desk clerk scenarios inside the rental place or something. Right, which is hilarious. You don't have to be around a vehicle itself either. so and they could they could steal toys from other games already because just uh uh john candy's character always has that enormous trunk that he's taking with him everywhere i know they've got leftover trunk ball locks from uh uh was it aerosmith that had the trunk ball lock i'm kind of imagining if you had a uh like a scoop trunk shot as another alternative rather than a ball lock where you shoot the trunk and space it's just like you know behind a scoop and right the the mystery award is what comes out of his trunk yeah that big points everyone's favorite award big points not small points big points so uh uh yeah no i i think this one has a lot of potential uh i think it'd be a lot of fun i don't know that it would sell as well as Ferris Bueller. Yeah, maybe not, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best pinball machine. True. I have a harder time on this one, too, trying to figure out. I mean, with Ferris Bueller, it felt real obvious to me who would work well for call-outs, and on this one, unless you could somehow get Steve Martin, I think you'd pretty much just have generic call-outs. yeah I mean obviously we can't have John Candy no one I mean the movie revolves around those two so honestly you probably just end up with a generic call out person because I doubt you get Steve Martin willing to do it but I mean that would be the ideal and in fact it's really the only logical related to the film option that you have so yeah that's unfortunate but I mean nothing can be done around that that's just life yeah that's just how it is That's just how it is. Do you want to talk she's having a baby or no? I don't remember enough of that movie. I remember bits and pieces. Not enough. I don't think there's any chance. I guess the toy would be a baby. That's it.
    37:30
    And no one wants to bash a baby. That's mean. Let's be fair. You would honestly need to have a bash toy that just looks like Kevin Bacon.
    37:43
    Just to have a Kevin Bacon bash toy. whatever excuse you can do to have a kevin bacon bash toy and every time you bash him he says lines but none of them are from she's having a baby they're from all his other films yeah it's just yeah you use it as a thing but it's not my favorite kevin bacon game just because of the kevin bacon i just want to i just want random kevin bacon movie toy uh okay so we're gonna due to ignorance and and lack of a lot of experience with it we're we're not really in an address she's having a baby. Which moves us up to Uncle Buck. I love Uncle Buck. In fact, for me, I like it more than plane trains and automobiles. Really? I really, I've seen it a lot more. I just, I am more of a John Candy fan than I am a Steve Martin fan. And so a vehicle oriented entirely around John Candy almost inherently is more preferable to me.
    38:37
    Even though I like Steve Martin's work. He's not, you know, he's not like a, trying to think of a comedian. You know, like Chevy Chase. I'm not a big Chevy Chase fan. But John Candy, Uncle Buck. Oh, my gosh. It's so funny. It's got so many things going for it. So for those that don't know, Uncle Buck is about – Uncle Buck is a bachelor. He has a girlfriend, but his family contacts him to basically babysit his nephew and nieces. and he is not used to suburban life so he's coming from the city he's a smoker he's got I mean he's got all these bad habits and so he comes in and he's just like this fun loving guy in this stuffy suburb he's so crass and so it's just you know and then zany antics ensue so alright there's so much that could work with this though I mean The hatchet from the trunk could be a toy.
    39:40
    How about a quarter? And you shoot the quarter shot to be able to go to buy a rat to gnaw a mole off this mean teacher principal's face.
    39:53
    You've got the washing machine scene where it looks like he's having some lewd behavior with him bashing the washing machine, trying to get it to work. uh it's just so it's got like ferris bueller i think the toys on this one are real easy to do oh i think so i mean i mean even between all of those the the the pancake just a giant pancake pancake you thought you thought breaking bad pizza on a roof was big deal back in the 80s we had pancake on a plate.
    40:29
    So, yeah, no, it, oh, man. Yeah, that would be really, really good. I just, yeah, it's less iconic. I mean, it was like only a $15 million movie or something. It was, it was, it's just, it's not on the same level, I guess, as a lot of these others. But just to me, the whole idea, the fish out of water, but it being a city guy in the – no, not going like sticking him out on a farm like you would with Pauly Shore, but just putting him in the suburbs and what that meant in the 80s. I just – I thought it works really well. A lot of the tension between him and the teenage niece and – hey, maybe that's who you get the call out. It's Jay Underwood, the guy who played Bug, the boyfriend.
    41:15
    Yeah, that was – Let me make sure he's still alive. Okay, yeah. I have no idea. Yeah, he is. I mean, he's still acting. Is it John Kennedy or Macaulay Culkin? Oh, yeah, he was the nephew. He was the nephew. I forgot there was Macaulay Culkin. There's a toy, the mailbox, the mail slot in the door. Because he talks through that.
    41:35
    He's the one doing all the screening to let people in. Yeah, no, I think that one would have a lot of potential. All the modes. The mode with the drunk pooter, the clown.
    41:46
    Don't forget about pooter. Yeah, no, that's definitely – I think you could have a lot of fun with that one. And then the last one would obviously be Curly Sue. Yes. Now, Curly Sue is – I mean, all the – I think all the John Hughes movies he directed all kind of fit in the same basic concept of what – they're not all – they're all sort of these light comedies in a way. But this one was – so you've got – it's a Jim Belushi vehicle, and him and his daughter are basically scammers. So they try to – they make people think – they're trying to eat, essentially. It's not like they're – it's not the whole Dirty Routin' Scoundrels sort of like high-class con artist. Yeah, they're not the high-level grifter type. Right, right, right. This is more like really like low rent kind of scams And so the movie revolves around a rich woman who thinks that she hit Jim Belushi with her car And they trying to get a meal out of it but ultimately they start to get to know each other and they bond and all of that is what goes on. And the little girl, Curly Sue is a key instrument in a lot of these scams. So I liked the movie. Okay. When I've seen, I mentioned earlier that I actually did see this one in the theaters, but there's not other, I mean the toy would be probably be the car that hits, hits Belushi, but like, there's nothing, this is not a good movie to do. I don't know. There's not, it's not, I don't think it's a particularly strong movie. I, it's okay. You know, it's heartwarming, but there's nothing about it that screams pinball to me. So I just don't, again, it's one of those like 16 candles. I don't really know how I make it work. I think I could make it work better than 16 candles, but not by much. Right. It's just one of those, yeah, things. It's like trying to take, I mean, it's not a law drama, though. I think the woman in it is a lawyer, but it's like trying to take a law drama and make a pinball game out of it. I don't know how you do it. Yeah. There's no good way to do it. Other than maybe liar, liar. I don't know what you do.
    44:07
    Well, my cousin Vinny could actually be fun. Okay. But to be fair, so much of that involves what happens outside of the court. My cousin Vinny would be great. Oh, God. Now I want to talk about the mud and the tires, trying to rent a suit, the pool hustler. Okay. That's not John who's directing me. How dare you bring that up, though? How dare you, sir?
    44:33
    Yeah, sorry. You will apologize to the listeners. I'm sorry for taking this off topic. Tony, what's a ute? I'm sorry.
    44:43
    What's a ute? A ute. How do you like your grits? Darn it, I'm going to be stuck on that all day now.
    44:51
    I'm going to be yelling my cousin Vinny quotes during the Chiefs game. You know, still slightly off topic of John Hughes for just one second. Okay. Another older movie that I think would be a lot of fun and work really well as a pinball machine. And has an amazing amount of star power for what it is. Little Shop of Horrors.
    45:18
    Yeah, I've heard people suggest that one. I read people have suggested that one before. I mean, that would just, that could be a lot of fun with the obvious toys. But that's just, yeah. I'd rather see a Rocky Horror myself, but whatever.
    45:34
    Rocky Horror would be enjoyable. I like the musical numbers better. And you've still got just as many fun toys, though maybe not as iconic as a man-eating plant. True.
    45:47
    Maybe less family-friendly. Yeah, I don't know about the full-on PG mode. I don't know if it's worth putting in or not. Yeah, it would definitely be. But, I mean, Tim Curry at the height of his power.
    46:06
    But back to where we started with John Hughes. I think it's real easy to tell from our talking about this that we're looking at Ferris, Uncle Buck, and maybe Planes, Trains, and Automobiles is where we think the top three selections for pinball machines. That's my general read with, I guess if we needed a fourth position, it'd probably be Beckress Club based off of what you said. But yeah, I mean, so. How about this?
    46:36
    Let's cut this to two. And then we'll throw it on the Facebook because doesn't Facebook allow two votes? I don't know if we can do that anymore after they did their modification. That's why I quit doing those vote for our – Did they get rid of that? When they made their new version, you could not on group pages anymore do a poll. Oh.
    46:58
    I hadn't realized that because you always made the polls. Right, right. And that's why I stopped us doing the – which of our six – that's why I stopped the Build-A-Bank was I couldn't do the vote anymore. And that made me sad. I thought you were just tired of winning. No. I'm never tired of victory. Yeah, I'm checking under the system to see if that got in it because a lot of people complained. I actually – I didn't run into the problem myself. Thankfully, I had read about people running into that problem before I had tried. So I had learned from other podcasts that they're no longer – they were no longer able to ask. Like there's not in the – so I don't think we can. Yeah, there's not a create a poll thing anymore. So given that – again, less than until they were trying. I mean, we could do a poll through another service like we used to, but I just – we get far less interaction when we do things like Google polls than we did back in the – back with the – Facebook, what were you thinking? Come on. Those polls were useful. They were – So I'm afraid it's down to just us. I mean, people can write into eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com to tell us what they would pick. Yeah, and tell us why we're wrong with what we choose. And we can read those on the next episode. So we invite you to do that, but I'm afraid it's down to us, Tony. But I don't object to the idea of dropping it down to two for us, though I don't know if it matters. I don't think it matters if it's just us. Okay, well. I think – Do you want me to go first or do you want to go first? How do you want to do it? Oh, it doesn't matter. Either way, I can go first. I think as much as I love it and as much as I do consider it the quintessential holiday movie, I think Planes, Trains, and Automobiles doesn't have the same impact that Uncle Buck or Ferris Bueller would have. Really?
    48:54
    Yes. I think both of those are probably more popular just because I've talked to more people who've seen those two and enjoyed those two than Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Well, let's pull some numbers from IPDB real quick. So the gross for Uncle Buck was 66.7 million or worldwide gross, excuse me, $79 million for Uncle Buck. Planes, trains and automobiles was 49.5 million. And Ferris Bueller's Day Off was 70.7 million.
    49:32
    So Uncle Buck made the most out of those three, but it's also 1989. So the dollars, inflation, we got to factor a little bit of that in. And then if you include, like, the Metascore, the Metacritic. Metacritic has Planes, Trains, and Automobiles with a 72.
    49:51
    Uncle Buck with a 51. Yeah. And Ferris Bueller's Day Off with a 61. Really? So there, Planes, Trains is the highest. Fascinating. But when you look at the popularity on IMDb, we've got Planes, Trains, and Automobiles at 2,400.
    50:14
    Uncle Buck at 694. And Ferris Bueller is sitting at 790. Yeah, I think maybe the stars would make the most sense there because those numbers are weird to me. Yeah, because those numbers are based on people voting, and they kind of shift around a lot. Yeah, Ferris Bueller is a 7.8 out of 10 on IMDb. Planes Trains is 7.6, so pretty close. And Uncle Buck is down at 7. So they're all between 7 and 8. Right, they're all there. So depending on the metric, different ones of these are in the lead. Right. and I think that's where it's hard to make the choice because I think they're all excellent movies. I think they're all hilarious movies, though the one that feels the most John Hughes-y is Ferris. I know they're all John Hughes movies, but when you think, but again, when I think John Hughes movies, I don't always think some of these movies because of the box he's been put in. Yeah, let's go with that. So your pick for Pinball Machine would be Ferris Bueller. I think Ferris would be the most well-received, and definitely I think he would probably sell the best. I agree with you, but I'm picking Uncle Buck because I don't care what the people want. I'm giving them what they need. What they need. They need Uncle Buck. Uncle Buck will be a lot more fun as a pinball machine. It just will be. I don't care that the movie's not as strong. I don't care that it's not as popular. It's more fun. It's more funny. John Candy blows the cast of Ferris Bueller out of the water. It's just – that's what I'm going with. And I think it's – even if as a movie, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles is better written, I think Uncle Buck as a standalone for using pinball with – Planes, Trains would be good too. But I just think Uncle Buck – I think Planes, Trains, like I said, it is my favorite holiday movie. And that – but – But Uncle Buck, I could probably get – I could get a call-out person like a Macaulay Culkin or someone to do something with it. With Planes, Trains, we're basically down to Steve Martin and that's it. So there's more flexibility with Uncle Buck. There's some really funny set pieces that work really well for either of them. So again, I'm going to say let's just do Uncle Buck. We could set it up in a variety of different ways that the rules could go about, whereas Planes, Trains might be a little more structured around the various movie set pieces. Of course, you'd probably end up with that with Uncle Buck as well. But which ones you choose to use, I think there's a lot of flexibility with Uncle Buck, just because there's so many little scenes that are all really funny. So it's like, do you want the scene where you're playing as John Candy trying to find his niece before she is violated by her boyfriend? That's an option. Do you want the washing machine scene? That's an option. But you don't have to do all of that. I just, yeah, it's not, I don't think it sells the best. It's definitely not the best of his eight movies that we went over. I don't care. That's where I'm picking. It would be a very fun pinball machine. And it is my job. It is my moral obligation. It is your job to pick. My moral obligation, Tony, as a podcaster, to tell the people what they need. It's my job to be their expert, not their job. Oh, that's your job to make their decisions for them. That makes sense. I understand completely. I think a lot of your arguments for Uncle Buck also apply to Ferris. there's plenty of choices for call outs there's plenty of set pieces and toys available I think the difference would be the just sheer amount of resonance with the people and the games that they would be most interested in that's a good point and Ferris would be my number two pick and Planes would be my number three But, and Breakfast Club would be my number four if you want them. And it's like, why don't you do the next four, Dennis? No, I've done enough. There's enough. Why don't we just do them in order? Why don't you do them in order? Why don't you do them all? You're so brilliant. We're going to go with Planes Trains. We're going to go with Uncle Buck. We're going to follow that with Breakfast Club, then Weird Science. We're going to follow that with, oh, Curly Sue, then She's Having a Baby, then 16 Candles. Because I just have no earthly idea what to do with 16 Candles. I put 16 Cattles Above She's Having a Baby because at least I know something about the movie. But that's the only reason. All right. Here's one of the things, though, that I bring up with Ferris Bueller that I think is interesting. Because you raised some points about the popularity, and I absolutely agree. And, yeah, it's got – I mean, it's more iconic. If you give people this list of eight movies, I think the majority of the general public, be they pinball or not, are going to say Ferris Bueller. Yeah, it's an iconic touchstone movie. It really is. Here's the problem with it. it's the Star Wars effect if you can't pull off there's just going to be too many people that are going to be upset about what you didn't do with the game no matter how you did it Uncle Buck is not going to have that problem people are not going to be like darn it you didn't include the quarter and the rat chewing the mole off the face no one's really going to care with Ferris Bueller you put in the car people are going to be mad that you didn't put in the parade you get the call outs to be fair If you put in – you need to put in – I mean those are like some of the big set pieces. If you didn't have the car parade in there. You can't do them all. Well, no. You can't do them all. But those two, if you don't have those two items in there.
    55:53
    Okay. So you do those two and then they'll be mad that they didn't have – you didn't have the scene with the parking attendants driving the vehicle around. There's always going to be – you didn't have the jail scene with Charlie Sheen. You get Alan Ruck to do your call outs and there are people that are mad you didn't get Charlie Sheen to do the call outs. even though his scene was a lot less. It was like five seconds. There are going to be people that are upset that you don't have the Bueller. You don't put in the Bueller Bueller. You didn't get the rights to Ben Stein. Look, Tony, you're going to make people mad. You're going to make people mad. Because you don't have the scene where he's asking how good the plumbing is because he's been eating a lot of cheese because he's like a little mouse.
    56:27
    And it causes some issues. I mean, there's going to always be something that's left out that somebody's going to be mad about. Yes, but Ferris Bueller, it's like, it's quicksand. It's the Harry Potter system. thing. You make a Harry Potter, you're going to make more people mad than you will make happy. That's why Harry Potter is such a terrible idea. It's just too popular for its own good. Ferris Bueller is too popular, Tony. It's too popular for its own good. Let me use my expertise and protect the people by just giving them Uncle Buck. You can try that as much as you want, but I don't think that Ferris Bueller does not fall into the same level as Star Wars or Harry Potter. I'm not going to disagree with you that Harry Potter is going to be very divisive if it ever happens. The Star Wars games are divisive, but I don't think that Ferris would fall into the same level. Ferris is going to be much more along the lines of people going, wow! This happened, and being happy with what they got. I mean, that'd be right up there with The Last Starfighter pinball machine.
    57:25
    Let's face it, if you're making The Last Starfighter into a pinball machine, you've already screwed up because that game needs to be a video game. You could do Last Starfighter. I want a ball lock where you're the little ship and then when the multiball starts it death blossoms those balls out.
    57:41
    That would be cool. And you only get that multiball once a game. You can only use death blossom once. I have a lot of video modes to really work. Yeah, well that can be a discussion for another time. Anyway folks, write into us with your thoughts at CollectingGamersPodcast at gmail.com or you can comment on the Facebook post when that goes live or send us a message or however you want to do it. Please tell Tony why Uncle Buck is the safe, proper answer.
    58:09
    Because it's not. I have a feeling I will not have majority support. I don't care. I'm going to pull the elitist card and say it's my job to guide you all on this journey. And trust me, Uncle Buck is what you need. It's what you need. I think I'm going to go out on a limb with you and say no. It's not what you need. Ferris would be much better. Quote of 2021 for Tony. I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.
    58:35
    No. Well, speaking of limbs, Tony, I think we can finally go to video games. We can. Video games have had a little bit more stuff going on than pinball. Not unusual. We just normally don't cover most of it. I figure we'll go ahead and open up with the most interesting to me item, which is going to be the announcement of the, you want to call it the formation or the reformation of Lucasfilm games. Yeah, kind of reformation. Yeah, because there used to be all the Star Wars games and all of the, I mean, there was, you know, Maniac Mansion and Day of the Tenenbaums. Monkey Rock Island. Yeah, they were put out by LucasArts Games.
    59:27
    And when Disney bought it out, they kind of went away. and now it's they're bringing it back as lucasfilm games uh and while they're still here's what's interesting in 2013 disney signed a deal with ea that gave ea exclusive rights to make star wars games for 10 years but now that Lucasfilm Games exists they've already announced that Ubisoft Massive the developers behind the Division and the Division 2 are developing an open world Star Wars game what's interesting to me is does this mean that they have modified their deal with EA because they have said that there are still Star Wars games coming from EA, or is this one of those things where it's set up to EA's deal will end in 23 like it's supposed to and these games aren't going to come out until after that?
    60:38
    Or did they just sit down with how bad the press with EA and EA's Star Wars game releases have been and basically use that as the stick to force adjustments to what is allowed? Yeah, we just don't know. I mean, if I were to pick, my guess is that this, like, because we know Ubisoft is working on something now as part of the announcement. And yeah, I just don't think any of the new stuff is going to come out until after the deadline, but they've already decided it won't be exclusive anymore. And if it's all about when the games get to be released, it's okay for another company to start. But they probably have signed a contract with Ubisoft saying, yes, you will get to release this Star Wars game that you will now start working on so that you'll be ready to go, hopefully, when the exclusivity period ends. That's my guess. Right. And that was what my guess was, but I just didn't – there's really nothing about it. Yeah, we don't know. It's super kind of just announced. Now, they did also announce from Lucasfilm Games that Machine Games, owned by Bethesda, they've made all the new Wolfenstein games. They are developing an Indiana Jones game. That's neat. With Todd Howard as the executive producer. So I don't know if that still qualifies as neat or less neat, but... No, I'm still somewhat. I mean, other than Lego, we haven't seen anything Indiana Jones next to any memory. I remember the 2600 game, Raiders of the Lost Ark. There was a game that came out after the Lego games, but it was not well received. And I think it was only on certain, like it was like on the PSP or something like that. Oh, okay. Well, what I can say regarding all of this is I in no way fault Lucas for doing this with, oh my gosh, EA has just, it feels like they've completely mismanaged having this Star Wars exclusivity. I mean, other than the Battlefront games, which are okay, I've played Battlefront 2 somewhat extensively. I tried the demo of Battlefront, the first one, I never ended up buying it. And then there was that one single player game that came out that people really, really liked. And other than that, most of the stuff has been ho-hum. Yeah. I mean... I haven't finished Squadrons. I haven't finished Squadrons either. I'm just not amazed by it.
    63:11
    But when you... Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's all right. It's no Wing Commander. Right. Now, Squadrons... I think the big thing with Squadrons is Squadrons, like the Battlefield games, it's designed to be a team combat game and the story has just been thrown in there to have a story mode right and it's not it's not the primary point for it right right well i i think when people heard about the announcement about all these star wars games they assumed we'd be playing we'd be living the star wars universe not just going into 32 versus 32 battles in the star wars universe Right, and that's not what EA has delivered And the thing is, is that there have been some huge games That were getting good press and looked great That EA can Yeah they can all the exciting ones I mean don get me I mean I love dice I really like their multiplayer approach Battlefront two is an enjoyable multiplayer game but that all you turn to it for is multiplayer That all it is Right. The single players. The big thing is, I think a lot of it anyway, I should say, this is just me opining is a lot of the games that were in development at one point in time were single player games and EA stopped doing that type of game.
    64:36
    Yeah, because with multiplayer, you do the microtransaction thing and you make more money. Right. That's what I mean. Quite objectively, I was going to say objectively, but maybe biased or not. That's definitely my view of EA is they're like, it's loot crate time, baby. Yeah, and that's exactly how they acted.
    64:55
    So I'm glad. I'm just glad. Even if Ubisoft is going to give us an open world Star Wars game Where it's just It's Far Cry but That's my fear It's going to be Far Cry but re-skinned as Star Wars All Ubisoft games kind of taste the same to me They do That's what I'm expecting But it'll be single player That's the thing It'll be a single player experience Right So I mean I think we'll just have to see what happens Yeah Going on from that We've got Microsoft had a real interesting 15 hours. That's being kind, Tony.
    65:38
    Because on Friday, as in Friday the 22nd, just a couple days ago, they announced a price increase across the board for Xbox Gold Live. And that's the service, for those that don't know, for you to be able to play online, you have to be an Xbox Gold member. Correct. One per console, I believe. Yeah, there needs to be at least one per console to be able to play online with other people. Yes. And 15 hours later,
    66:11
    they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're sorry. That price increase isn't happening. And from now on, if you're playing a free-to-play game, you don't have to have an Xbox Live Gold account to play those games online. Which would put them in parity with Nintendo and PlayStation on that. Right. Because Nintendo and PlayStation didn't require you to have their special accounts to go online with stuff like Fortnite or any of those free-to-play games.
    66:48
    So... Though that's not active yet. That may take them several months to enable. Right. Yeah, that's not active yet. They're just working on it. Right. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall, a microwave in the room, when those started coming in, the emails. And it must have been bad. It must have been real to get that fast of a turnaround. When I heard about it, I was pissed. I was absolutely pissed. They didn't just raise the price. They doubled it. They doubled it, and they didn't add anything. It's like there was no – like I remember being annoyed when Amazon raised the price of Prime. But they had been adding new things, you know, other than the two-day shipping. It's like Amazon Video now is something that I use a lot. I use it. Yeah, I use Prime Video more than any other service now. So, I mean, between Prime Video, I use the Prime access to the music a lot. I get a free Kindle book every month, and I don't tend to read them, but I usually download them because I'm like, okay, I'll grab another thriller. It's free. They added a few things along the way that made it – along with also a lot of the stuff that was two-day shipping is now free one-day shipping. So they still – it was annoying, but I accepted it. This was – all right, I get it. They haven't raised the price in a long time, but to all of a sudden go from $60 a year to $120. and then so i bought two i bought two codes uh at the 60 could only load one into my account because i am like okay well uh i think i'm only going to be using gold for the foreseeable future because i have an xbox series x so that's the console i've run with for the next gen and i was just i was like why are you doing that you've been they've been making so many right decisions lately and they faltered a little bit i felt with the console launch not having any games available, but it was the same thing for Sony. So everyone had the same fault there. So it's like, okay, you've been making right decisions, but how do you sell this as a good idea? And early on, actually, after I bought the cards, a few hours later, I read in there, they had a more detailed news announcement that had clarified, though it hadn't said this in the initial announcement that I could tell, that anyone who was already a gold subscriber got to keep the old rate. So I turned out to be grandfathered in already. So it's like, well, then why are you doubling the price at all on the, just the new people? Like, are you trying to keep the new people out? And I, I think this was all like, they had it in their heads that this was a way to better incentivize people doing game, uh, game pass ultimate, but, but no, it did. I mean, I read some and I have not researched this myself. I read someone trying to explain it and they felt that like for console only players, game pass ultimate isn't a deal that you really look at because of the you know you can buy things for just the console version for game pass if you're interested and you can get gold and you do that and so if gold was more expensive game pass ultimate comparatively becomes a better deal but but we all remember how much gold was so it's like it's a better deal except that we have memories and we know what we used to pay and it's like you haven't done anything to improve So Xbox Gold set up with the party chat and all that. It's a really good system. But I mean, I remember transitioning on the 360 from being a PC gamer back into console. And that was a tough pill for me to swallow was the idea that I had to pay for online. What convinced me it was okay was that their online infrastructure is very, very good. But again, it's not like we're seeing any notable improvement. Like, what are we getting? Ever since Game Pass came out, Games with Gold, the free two games we get every month, they've gotten worse, not better, because all the good stuff's in Game Pass. So it's like, I just, it just was, it was just a blunder. It's just an absolute blunder. And if it was motivated to try and get more people to adopt Game Pass, they'd be better just phasing out Gold and saying, you're going to do Game Pass or something. I think that would have probably gone over better than this. And that was the rumor a few months ago when they – I think they took away – and maybe it's still gone, but they took away, at least for a while, or said they were going to, the ability to do like one-year gold subscriptions were taken away from the – like if you weren't already signed – if you were signed up, you still had them. But if you weren't, that option I believe went away for people, and they're like, why is this not out there anymore? It looks like Microsoft is getting rid of gold, and people seem to be like understanding, oh, yeah, well, with Game Pass, that's where they're making more money off Game Pass than they do gold. and everyone pretty much is doing it because it's like the no-brainer deal in gaming. The issue for people like me, as I've expressed before, is I don't play a high volume of games. Game Pass is great for a nibbler.
    71:47
    Like someone who wants to go in. I know people who go and they will get a game and they will play it for like 20 to 60 minutes and then just move on. And I don't tend to do that. So Game Pass is great for people like that. Game Pass is also great for people that have enough money to afford Game Pass and do that and normally would only be buying like a couple games a year. And so this gives them access to more than a couple of games, and it probably gives them access to the games they were going to buy anyway. So that's a great deal. But I get so many of my games for my birthday and for Christmas, and it takes me so long to play them because I do so many other things in my life than just tear through video games that it it's just not it doesn't bring any all it does is cost me money like i'm not going to take full advantage of it not at this point maybe if i caught up on everything and instead i had people give me gifts that were not 20 video games you know it'd be different but it's like what i do currently works best for me it saves me the most money and keeps me with plenty of games to play so i just don't need it even though it is i agree absolutely the best deal. It is a great deal.
    72:56
    But I need gold. Right. Because you like to play online with other people. Because I play Overwatch every week. I need gold just for that. If I want to play Battlefront 2, I need gold for that.
    73:07
    And I don't want to pay $120 a year to be able to play Battlefront and Overwatch online. I already bought those games.
    73:15
    Yeah, no, and that makes complete sense. And I think that's why they dialed back like they did. They had to uh i'm impressed with how quickly they oh they changed and full kudos for that i i have it i'm not sure this is how it happened but i just imagine this is how in my head canon this is the reality phil spencer just storm actually like leg kicked open the door slam and just like what are you doing to my division and all these marketing people are like cowering like phil we're sorry we just we thought we'd get people into game pass ultimate and phil's like i've been working my butt off here bringing in like 15 new companies to make exclusive deals we're trying to finally bury sony in the dirt and you decide to double gold because you thought it would be a good incentive you will repeal this deal and then i will decide whether or not to fire you and then he ate one of them yes nom he basically he said he just sucked them into his tummy and then he just goes poyo because he likes it he likes to give a lot of credit that's a kirby reference for those that don't know what i'm doing that was a solid kirby reference i thought that i thought i did his how he would truly say poyo it's like that so yeah no it was it was one of those things that uh by the time i even found out about this it was already over because i didn't read the initial any of the initial news about this until yesterday the first news i read about it was the news that they reversed themselves so yeah and they apologized and so i mean i i think they've minimized the damage i've never seen a company move that quickly to to reverse off of their plan i mean we've seen this happen with other companies before like i remember when netflix did their first big pay but this is back when netflix was still like doing a lot of the mail you the dvd sort of stuff and they were going to price raise and they they delayed it or they lowered the amount or something and you know that curried more favor uh so yeah i thought they responded to it really well i still just couldn't believe they thought it was a good idea in the first place it's crazy to me uh especially that high of an increase well they just launched a new console you need as many new people in now this is not the time to want to jack the price jack the price when we're five years in on the cycle and everyone who's adopted is adopted. And then you're like, okay, well, we've got our built-in base. They're probably going to stay with us. That's a relatively inelastic demand, but not when you're trying to, I mean, even with all the companies and everything they've done, they're inherently behind the eight ball because Sony was in a stronger position last gen and people are inherently favor the system they were already in. That's just how life is. So because they carry, you know, they carry over their trophies, they carry over their friends list, they carry over the ability for backwards compatibility, all that stuff. So it's just, yeah. So thank you for reversing yourself, Microsoft. Try and be a little more thoughtful in the future. Yeah. Maybe plan a little bit better and think about stuff. Yeah. Poyo.
    76:28
    We'll finish up our video game discussion this time around. In a recent interview, Valve co-founder Gabe Newell announced that Valve has games in development that have not been announced yet, but are close to release. Sure they are. Talk about disappointments. Let's talk about Valve. Valve is, they have a history, we'll go with, of trying to perfect games and then just trashing the project. Because Valve makes all of their money from Steam. Yes. So when it comes to actual game development, they'll develop a game, and if it doesn't meet the exact high standards of whoever's in charge at the moment, they'll just dump it.
    77:25
    And they've dumped I don't even know how many games that a game has been announced or a game has been seen or a game has been heard of. They've even shown clips of it and then, ah, we canceled that project. Now, there have been changes in management in the last year or two that have had people hopeful that it would mean they'd be getting games out. and they did put out Half-Life Alex. Yeah, the VR thing. The VR thing, and it reviewed really well.
    78:02
    So the question is, what are these games? I can tell you what these games are. There is no Half-Life 3 in here. Don't even dream. that game's at a point where they know they can't put that game out because that game that game if you fired that game up it ran perfectly on every computer you could run that game on an apple 2e or on the most awesome box it would run perfectly and it would be enjoyable and it would be fun and when you beat the game there was a million dollars put into your bank account people would still hate that game because that's how high the hype has become for that game. The hype for Half-Life 3 has gotten to the point where Cyberpunk isn't even in the same zip code. So there'll never be a Half-Life 3. They just can't do it. Which means now they'll put it out because I said that.
    79:08
    But it's one of those things that I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, Valve has put out some good games.
    79:18
    But until I actually see them release a game, I'm just not going to be real. I'm not getting my hopes up. No matter what they say they have or how good they say something is going,
    79:35
    I'm not going to believe there's an actual game there until it's at a point where it is playable. yeah I'm not I'm not going to speculate on what Valve might be working on it's it's too hard to know yeah I mean it's just who knows I pulled up a list of Valve games we'll just go over just the last few I mean they've put out a lot of good games in the past but let's just cover the last few in March of 2020 they put out Half-Life Alyx which we talked about it's a virtual reality exclusive Half-Life game. I've heard really good things about it, but it's a virtual reality game, so it's not like it's a major world-breaker changer of things. Yeah, most gamers just don't care. Right. In February of 2020, they put out a standalone version of the Dota Auto Chess game mode, which was a thing that was real popular several years ago. Yeah, I remember hearing about it and then realizing it wasn't actually chess. Yeah.
    80:42
    2018, they put out Artifact. That was their collectible card game. It was based on Dota, of course. I didn't remember this. Yeah, it was their attempt to make a Hearthstone. They actually got Good people to build it It was designed by Magic the Gathering creator Richard Garfield Oh But It was dead by 2019 They had less than 100 concurrent players at that point Wow Yeah In 2016 They kicked out a free VR Game for the HTC Vibe VR release. It was just a compilation of minigames set in the Portal universe called The Lab.
    81:34
    Okay. And then you had Left 4 Dead Survivors, which was released in Japan as an arcade Left 4 Dead game. Don't know nothing about it. Yeah, I'm not familiar. Well, if it was only released in Japan, I guess it's not surprising that we don't know. Right.
    81:56
    Counter-Strike Nexon Zombies in 2014, a free-to-play zombie shooter. I'd never even heard of it. Counter-Strike released just for Korea in 2013. Okay, well, we're going way back now. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. The last big game they released, CSGO in 2012 or Dota 2 in 2013. When did they release Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2? 2009 was Left 4 Dead 2. Because that team's gone. That team now has made a spiritual successor on their own. Yeah. So I don't think we're going to see Left 4 Dead 3 from Valve. No. Portal 2 was 2011.
    82:42
    Yeah, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, they came out a year apart. Yeah, that was a big controversy at the time. Huge controversy.
    82:51
    But they've just... They've got nothing. I mean, we're starting to talk about stuff like the Orange Box and all that. Well, and part of the reason why I said I wasn't inclined to speculate about Valve isn't just that they trash games when they don't live up to whatever standard they're applying to them. It's also that my understanding is a lot of their game developers have not enjoyed working for Steam where they don't get to make games. And they have gone on to other places or formed their own studios to make games. So I don't know what talent they've got left. I mean, it's Valve. They can afford to bring in any talent they want. But to do a pinball analogy, it reminds me of that interview we briefly discussed from Super Awesome on our last episode about Dennis Nordman and how he wants to be at a company that actually makes games. He doesn't want to just sit around on their payroll and wait for his designs to come to fruition. And that's true for video game developers too. Yeah, and I can understand that. they got into what they're doing to do something, so they'd like to actually do it.
    83:54
    So we'll just have to see what comes of this. If there's anything that actually really comes out of Valve, I'm not holding my breath. But it could be something. Because that's the thing.
    84:06
    Valve games are either amazing or terrible. I mean, obviously, because Artifact crashed. but it might have been a good game I don't know I really like the Left 4 Dead games I like the Portal games Team Fortress 2 is still really popular it is the Half-Life games were all hugely popular that's just the thing is they don't have anything recent so we'll see we will see we would have to wait and see and it's amazing how many games that Valve has kicked out were mods well we made it to the end of this good time so for those that want to reach out to us about anything John Hughes, Microsoft Gold what Valve is going to come up with as we've noted several times during the episode you can email us eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com you can also message us over at facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast or available on Twitch, Twitter, and Instagram as Eclectic underscore Gamers. And that's it. We'll be back in a couple of weeks. Who knows what strange things will lurk in the hearts of these podcasters at that time. But until then, I am Dennis. I'm Tony. Goodbye, everybody. Bye.