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DPP #115 "Phantom Tilt lives! *interview*"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·1h 1m·analyzed·Apr 10, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Interview with Australian podcast crew critiques ABBA launch execution and pricing amid broader discussion of 2025 releases.

Summary

Don interviews Ryan and Kimba from Phantom Tilt Podcast (Outback Pinshack, Western Australia) about recent pinball releases. They discuss the newly announced ABBA pinball machine, criticizing its launch presentation, pricing strategy ($10-11k), lack of gameplay differentiation between editions, and poor marketing execution. They also cover Jaws, Black Knight: Sword of Rage Pro, and Australia's pinball community, with positive notes on local operators and upcoming Expo 2025 attendance.

Key Claims

  • ABBA pinball's CE and LE have identical gameplay; only cabinet art differs

    high confidence · Kimba states 'everything's the same, both columns, except for, like, strictly cabinet art' when comparing editions

  • ABBA base (CE) priced at $10k AUD, collector's edition at ~$11k, with Australian pricing near AUD $20k

    high confidence · Don: 'They want $10,000 for just the basic weird art version, $11,000 for the main one' and Kimba mentions 'just under 20,000 Australian for the collector's edition'

  • Two former Pinball Brothers partners publicly stated no decision-making occurred at company for last two years

    high confidence · Don: 'two of the former Pinball Brother partners came out ahead of this launch saying, we haven't had any decision-making going on for the last two years'

  • ABBA's social media marketing person left company right before launch

    high confidence · Don: 'their social media marketing guy just left the company too right before the launch'

  • Game footage shown at launch had ball immediately bricking off entrance to right ramp

    high confidence · Don: 'the first time you see that pinball on the playfield, it's bricking off the entrance to the right ramp'

  • ABBA machine features helicopter mech that dumps balls directly onto playfield

    medium confidence · Ryan notes: 'I don't like that the helicopter just dumps the balls out onto the playfield. That's kind of weird'

  • Kerry Hardy released critical video about ABBA launch

    high confidence · Don: 'Did you see Kerry Hardy's video he put out last night? ...that was exactly the feelings that I had'

  • Phantom Tilt Podcast crew planning to attend Expo 2025

    high confidence · Kimba: 'Expo 2025 will be there. Yep.'

  • LJ Amusements (Perth operator) stocks all new Stern LE releases on location in mint condition

Notable Quotes

  • “There's a trend where you're like 90% there, and then you fumble the 10%. It really just kind of sandbags the whole launch.”

    Don @ mid-interview — Summarizes core criticism of ABBA's failed marketing execution despite adequate game design

  • “When you could go pick up an old Bally Williams and a Ninja Eclipse for the same price of Bad Art ABBA, it's like, what are we doing?”

    Don @ late-interview — Questions pricing strategy and value proposition relative to alternatives

  • “It's almost like they've got themselves a box of Legos and they just kind of orient them however they want. They took Queen and just opened up the CAD program and clicked and drew and drag things in different spots and were like, okay, now we've got a new layout.”

    Ryan @ mid-interview — Criticizes design philosophy as formulaic, lacking originality between manufacturer's releases

  • “I'm not rooting against these guys at all. I want good pinball, but they're making it hard to like them.”

    Don @ mid-interview — Expresses frustration with communication and launch execution despite acknowledging game quality

  • “the faces man those faces are creepy as hell i think i've referred to them like as about as creepy as rudy when you're walking through your house”

    Don @ early-interview — Specific design criticism of character artwork on ABBA backglass

  • “I don't like to just rag, rag, rag. I want to try to find positives out of it and hopefully things that we can look to their next game and say, I really hope they utilize this in the future.”

    Don @ late-interview — Shows measured, constructive tone despite severe criticism

  • “They've just put every LE out on the floor. So if a Stern releases a new game, they've ordered the Ellie already...They've got to spend so much time cleaning those machines.”

    Ryan @ late-interview — Highlights exemplary operator service model in Perth location community

Entities

ABBAgamePinball BrotherscompanyPhantom Tilt PodcastorganizationDonpersonRyanpersonKimbapersonKerry Hardyperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Brothers' announcement about lack of decision-making for two years combined with marketing departure suggests organizational distress and credibility damage at critical deposit-collection moment when Stern anticipated to announce new release

    high · Don: 'whatever's coming up, they're trying to disassociate themselves with it ahead of time'; 'when deposits are open, Stern's about to drop something new here pretty soon, so you really need to be pulling those dollars'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern LE machines being strategically deployed at premium locations in pristine condition (LJ Amusements, Perth), indicating operator confidence in new releases and community/tournament integration

    medium · Ryan: 'They've ordered the Ellie already...going to be out there for everyone to play...always got them in absolute mint condition...they just love pinball'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Queensland and Perth identified as significant Australian competitive pinball hubs with high-level WPPR-ranked players. Tournament activity and location operator support (LJ Amusements) sustaining competitive scene.

    medium · Ryan: 'Queensland has a real concentration of high, high level players. It's a big community. And in Perth, you know, there's some really talented people there';

  • ?

    design_philosophy: ABBA criticized for creepy facial artwork, sterile layout lacking 'love,' helicopter mech design that dumps balls directly onto playfield, and translucent plastic ramp limiting playfield visibility

    high · Don: 'the faces man those faces are creepy as hell'; Ryan: 'it's almost sterile...doesn't feel like it has that love put into it'; Ryan on helicopter: 'don't like that the helicopter just dumps the balls out onto the playfield'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.185

0:00
here back at you it's your boy don and we got another episode here currently number 115 if we're counting this is an interview episode of a talk i did with the phantom tell podcast crew we discuss everything like brand new games that just came out also what else came out this year and more listen up
0:30
Before we jump into that, though, be sure to remember that we are giving away a set of powder-coated Jaws armor, courtesy of Cab Custom, for your Jaws machine. Or, heck, really any Stern machine. Put it on whatever you want. It doesn't matter. But you can enter to win this for free. The giveaway is coming up on April 30th. I'll be doing it over a live stream on Facebook. You do not need to be present to win. You just have to email me to enter, and then you'll be contacted by email. The way you enter is you email donspinballpodcast at gmail.com a photo of yourself and a Jaws pinball machine. I love all the submissions that we've gotten so far, and really kind of anything goes. Just send me a photo of yourself and the machine however you want to do it, whether it's with you and your personal machine, you add a location in an arcade, maybe you have your child papercraft one, maybe you 3D printed a Jaws machine, Maybe you did a crayon drawing. I've been getting all kinds of stuff that's been nuts. It all works. I'll hit this again at the end of the interview episode, but don't forget to enter because it's free. Open to anybody worldwide, wherever you're at. I'll mail this to you as long as you give me a mailing address. So be sure to email and get in on this. Free armor, man. It's awesome. Powder coated. Looks legit. Thanks, Cap Custom, for doing that for me. I'd like to thank the show's sponsor, Mad Pinball. If you want to email jeff at madpinball.com I'm going to get on a list for any one of these number of new games coming out, his used inventory, whatever else is out there. He's got new inventory as well. Jeff at MadPitBall.com. We know that jingle. And it's been a while since we heard the jingle. As jingles go, this is awesome.
2:29
Did that hi-hat come in? I'm getting jiggy with it right now. Also, shout out to all the Patreon members. Love you guys. Get ready for some more exclusive content coming your way, including a giveaway on April 15th of another Translight. We're doing monthly Translight giveaways. Five bucks gets you in there. Get yourself a set of free Jaws armor. Just enter to win. And now let's get to this awesome interview that we recorded this morning. If you were afraid to die, I ain't scary, no, no. But I'm a friend of life. I'd rather be a zombie phantom.

high confidence · Ryan: 'They've ordered the Ellie already, and that thing is going to be out there for everyone to play...always got them in absolute mint condition'

  • Australia's Queensland region has high concentration of top-level competitive pinball players

    high confidence · Ryan: 'Queensland has a real concentration of high, high level players. It's a big community.'

    • “The country's huge...The U.S., sometimes six hours...to go from the East Coast, the West Coast”

    Don @ late-interview — Provides context for travel logistics discussion and upcoming visit plans

    Jaws
    game
    Black Knight: Sword of Ragegame
    Cab Customcompany
    LJ Amusementscompany
    Outback Pinshackorganization
    Planet Royaleorganization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Expo 2025event
    Southern Fried Gaming Expoevent
    Mad Pinballcompany
    Queengame
    Aliengame
    District 82 Arcadeorganization
    Predatorgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Stern NBAgame
    Bally Williamscompany
    Ninja Eclipsegame
    ?

    design_philosophy: Pinball Brothers using formulaic design approach: similar mechanical components (helicopter mech, drop targets, vuck) and layout strategy repeated from Queen to ABBA. Described as opening CAD and repositioning Lego-like mechanical blocks without genuine creative differentiation.

    medium · Ryan: 'They took Queen and just opened up the CAD program and clicked and drew and drag things...now we've got a new layout'; 'it's almost like they've got themselves a box of Legos'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: ABBA theme selected potentially due to current cultural momentum (hologram residency shows in London, Vegas, Dubai) rather than organic fan demand. Theme selection driven by licensing opportunity rather than community request.

    medium · Don/Ryan discussion: ABBA hologram show popularity; 'is it popular because it's ABBA or is it popular because it's holograms?'; 'everybody's become ABBA experts this week'

  • $

    market_signal: ABBA launch lacked strategic marketing execution: no pre-play opportunity for reviewers/operators despite requests, no NDA content partnerships, no event activation (missed opportunity with London/Vegas ABBA hologram shows for awareness/foot traffic), insufficient consumer confidence building during deposit phase.

    high · Don: 'I reached out...can I come by a couple weeks early...then nothing'; Suggested: 'partnering with...hologram show...five machines in the lobby...getting lines of people...ABBA t-shirts and pre-orders'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Two former Pinball Brothers partners publicly disassociated from company ahead of ABBA launch, stating no decision-making authority for past two years. Social media marketing director departed right before launch. Positioning suggests internal dysfunction and pre-emptive damage control.

    high · Don: 'two of the former Pinball Brother partners came out ahead of this launch saying, we haven't had any decision-making going on for the last two years'; 'their social media marketing guy just left the company too right before the launch'

  • $

    market_signal: ABBA priced at $10-11k USD with no gameplay differentiation between CE and LE editions (only cabinet art differs). Australian pricing ~AUD $20k competing against Stern LE machines. Questioned as unsustainable value proposition versus vintage alternatives (Bally Williams, Ninja Eclipse).

    high · Don: '$10,000 for just the basic weird art version'; Kimba: 'just under 20,000 Australian'; Ryan: 'When you could go pick up an old Bally Williams and a Ninja Eclipse for the same price of Bad Art ABBA'

  • ?

    product_launch: ABBA launch presentation bungled: game visible uncovered before official launch, poor gameplay video with immediate brick, audio issues with trumpet player cut off, no substantive gameplay footage shot in adequate quality, beds sheets and turned-off machines visible

    high · Don: 'the game was literally out uncovered before the launch party officially started'; 'the guy's struggling with the blanket off the back box'; 'still no real video of gameplay shot by something not on a potato'; 'a guy with a trumpet that got cut off'

  • ?

    product_concern: ABBA playfield design criticized as offering less mechanical innovation and polish than Alien (which featured wide-body, dual code sets, integrated lighting, beacon toppers). Same premium pricing with reduced feature depth.

    medium · Ryan: 'Alien came out, it was a wide body. It had two different sets of code...interior lighting...seemed like more of a premium product. And then this one just seems to offer less. It's the same price.'

    • 3:29
    What's up everybody, got something super special now. I'm joined with Ryan and Kimba from the Outback Pinshack of Western Australia and the Phantom Tilt Podcast. And we're here to have a conversation. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, sirs and madam. Yes, thank you very much for having us. Good morning to you, good evening to us. Yeah. Dude, that's awesome, that's awesome. I'm so glad you're here. So, yeah, let's talk about pinball. So you look at the current landscape. I like to view this hobby based on, like, not only the classic games that we all love and we play with, but also like the new stuff that's come out like over the year. And, you know, fortunately with where we are in this timeline at this time and place, it's nothing but new drops like every few weeks. Like it's nuts, right? There's so much happening all the time. Yeah. And so we decided, hey, like when this ABBA game drops, if that rumored title is actually going to exist and it's not just an April Fool's joke, let's get on and talk about it, right? For sure. Yeah. Especially ABBA is huge in Australia. they're very big here I think bigger than they are in the US probably almost on the same level as Europe for how nuts people are about ABBA yeah yeah so that was the thing right this was rumored and of course it's the game that everybody's been asking for right sure as hell not me and so everybody's been like well maybe it's like they're real popular in Europe but then I went to the European forums and people were like yeah no bro we weren't asking for this either We don't know what the heck's going on. Maybe it's just Australia asking for it. No. As it turns out, everybody's become ABBA experts this week, right? We went from the Eclipse experts, now we're ABBA experts. So they've got this VR show or whatever, this hologram show that's in London. It's a residency performance or something. They're planning one for Vegas. There's going to be one in Dubai or something else next. So, you know, okay, there is some cultural drive behind this band at this moment in time, I guess.
    5:28
    A little, I guess. I mean, they seem to be selling out every single show that they're offering up out there. And I think they just extended again for like another two years or another year or something like that. But is that because it's ABBA or is it because it's a holographic show? Like, that's pretty freaking cool.
    5:47
    That is cool. Like, is it popular because it's ABBA or is it popular because it's holograms? Like, could you do a residency Tupac show and it would also sell out just like this? Oh, hell yeah. I think so. But did you know that Kiss have just signed over all their royalties to do the same holographic show? Dude, I did hear that. So, I mean, all right, yeah. We're going from dad rock pins to dad rock VR shows, I guess. Or holographic shows. Holographic shows. when you can't muster the same sort of energy for week after week maybe that's what's necessary they're too old to be doing shows back to back I mean good on them, I'm not going to hold it against them and if it gives people a consistent show to go out and see whatever, I'm fine with it worked for Britney Spears, she did her Vegas residency so why not ABBA, right? I will say, not to hang on Kiss too long but they performed at the halftime show of the Australian Rules Grand Final last year and that's held in the middle of the day. So not like the Super Bowl where it's like at night.
    6:58
    This is held in the middle of the day. So they were out there and they slapped. They were sweating their asses off.
    7:06
    But they did a pretty damn good job. I will say that. It's probably the best halftime entertainment I think they've had in a while. In a long time, because before that it was Meatloaf, and he absolutely bombed. Well, that was like 10 years ago. No, it wasn't. Oh, hell yeah, it was. No, I don't think it was 10 years. It was a long time ago anyway. I'm obligated now. But yeah, that's the one that... I can see paradise by the dashboard lights. And it was so bad. I think that what you just did was probably a lot better than what he did. But hey, don't want to speak ill of the dead. I'm a one of one probably but I think I would go for a meatloaf pin over an ABBA pin yeah, hell yeah you get the artwork from Bad Out of Hell on the back glass I think you might be onto something there what a sweaty anomaly that guy is strange looking fella just not leading man material by the looks of him and he just absolutely slayed it he would be a legend just from Rocky Horror alone, let alone his musical career, which defied all expectations. He was Jelly Roll before Jelly Roll was rolling. Yeah, I love Jelly Roll.
    8:18
    So we have a pinball machine, a theme we weren't asking for, but not necessarily totally dismissing it off the bat. Of course. It's not themed after a donut shop or something crazy like that, some food themed pin or whatever. That would be crazy. First impressions, you've seen the pictures, what do you think? Oh, man. I don't know what I expected. I guess it was right around that. You know, it seems I kind of expected maybe some more gameplay elements to be different from the LE to the CE. But, you know, we've just got a carbon copy, I guess, gameplay-wise. The only thing that's different is the art, right? That's kind of a strange thing. Yeah, they made this whole rubric, right, of the matrix of the game features. There's like, you know, and usually that's where we see where there's sculpts instead of plastics, and there's an upper play field where there's not one. But here, like, everything's the same, both columns, except for, like, strictly cabinet art. Yeah, and also, like, the boring cabinet art, I don't know which one it is. It's not the Collective Decisions, it's the other one. Yeah.
    9:25
    That's so boring. The one without the jellyfish. Yeah, for sure. It's so plain, it's got some triangles in the back. now to advocate a bit for this that does mean that even the standard one comes with the powder coated rails they could have cheaped out there I guess and they didn't I don't hate the cabinet art on the premium except for that plastic back glass that was just really weird looks like AI I don't know if it is or not but that's strange to look at yeah I can't just rag on the thing I do actually like the art on the cabinet of the voyage uh edition or the the collector's edition oh yeah like the yeah the weird sea creatures and the jellyfish and like it almost looks like they're in that queen's yeah oh yeah so so i do like that there's there's some there's some things here that i do like i'm not you know dismissing the game you know but the faces man those faces are creepy as hell i think i've referred to them like as about as creepy as rudy when you're walking through your house at not oh man rudy's creepy yeah i do not want a fun house in this house and i like creepy stuff but man yeah i can't with that so you know there's a lot in here you know it's better than than venom it's more than just the back third of a play field you know um you know i was checking it out there are some things to like here i yeah you first off people were like well why are they doing a metal ramp and a plastic ramp like what's going on um the plastic ramps got that uh toilet bowl feature that like cactus canyon has that you plunge into and apparently there's a magnet there in the back too so it can grab so it's got some interactivity and they probably went translucent just so you can see more of the play field back there behind it um you know metal ramp on the right you know u turns into a wire form and it looks like they did this cool little thing on the down lower left of the play field where it looks like there's probably a drop target and then you can shoot back behind the other set of drop targets and then there's a vuck that takes it back into the wire form so i mean that's kind of cool um you know otherwise it looks you know you can tell this is this the same group that brought Queen because it's got that same kind of look but for not having an upper play field this looks more interesting to me to shoot yeah I it's it's something about those games that Queen had it and ABBA has it as well it's almost like uh it's almost it gives me a funny feeling when when I see the the layout for the first time it's almost sterile I think it doesn't feel like it has that love put into it that you see some games have. You know, they've got the formula of what they're going to be putting in the game. You know, the helicopter mech, I do have to say, is pretty cool.
    12:08
    But it's almost just a... I don't know, it didn't give me joy. It's almost like they've got themselves a box of Legos and they just kind of orient them however they want. They took Queen and just opened up the CAD program and clicked and drew and drug things in different spots and were like, okay, now we've got a new layout. That's kind of how it feels. A little bit, yeah. I don't know what it is. It might have been the presentation.
    12:35
    I did watch the launch, not live, but I got up pretty early the next day and started watching the launch. Man, it was tough. It was tough to watch it. Did you see Kerry Hardy's video he put out last night? I did. Yeah, yeah. Savage. I listened to that today while I was at work, and it was exactly the feelings that I had. He put it together so succinctly, and really, you know, when you've got the guys yelling out for someone to come and help them move the games so that they can get them down onto the floor. and oh man the guy the guy's struggling with the blanket off the back box it's like what are we doing um yeah and acting like not like everyone hadn't already seen the game like the game was literally out the pinball news guys were sending you know photos from the launch party the game was out uncovered before the launch party officially started right so i don't know i don't I don't know. There's this trend where you're like 90% there, and then you fumble the 10%. It really just kind of sandbags the whole launch. This should be a time where the engineers and the designers kind of turn it over to the marketing team and kind of trust them to build some hype and let's launch this thing off. Because this thing's not cheap. This isn't a $79.95 Ripley edition. They want $10,000 for just the basic weird art version, $11,000 for the main one, And then that's not even like counting Australia prices, shipping it out there, putting it on a submarine, however they get the games to you.
    14:17
    So the layout, I don't hate it. The game, it's not bad. It's not S tier. It's not bad, though. But, I mean, the launch was awful. There's still no real video of gameplay shot by something not on a potato, right? Yes, yes. And I'm supposed to put down a non-transferable, non-refundable $1,000 deposit for this thing, and I still don't know, like, what does it look like when it's lit up? Maybe it looks amazing. Maybe it's got this killer light show, but I have no idea. Yeah, the little gameplay reel that they played at the launch party,
    14:54
    I've said this to a couple people, you know, the first time you see that pinball on the playfield, it's bricking off the entrance to the right ramp. Oh, that's not a good take, man. It was tough. it was like maybe they didn't have enough time to shoot it all or something. But, yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. You need to get a good player there. You need to be hitting the shots and showing those shots off. You want to show off the mech what all your cool little innovations in the game do if you got innovations in the game Yeah and I think what they need too is consumer confidence especially right now right When deposits are open, Stern's about to drop something new here pretty soon, so you really need to be pulling those dollars. And you come out with a launch like this that you're not really telling everybody everything that's in there. Plus, you've got hanging over this news that dropped, And it wasn't a rumor. These were like two of the former Pinball Brother partners came out ahead of this launch saying, we haven't had any decision-making going on for the last two years of this company, which to me says whatever's coming up, they're trying to disassociate themselves with it ahead of time.
    16:02
    Plus, their social media marketing guy just left the company too right before the launch. And maybe he got a better offer somewhere else and it's all innocent, but that's a weird look to have. So you should even be more on, hey, everything's great at this company. here's the first machines being put together right now they're being shipped at the end of next month get your deposit in and talk to your distributor that's what I want to be hearing now and it's like no we got bed sheets and turned off machines and a guy with a trumpet that got cut off oh that poor guy that was his time to shine and he got drowned hopefully that wasn't someone's brother-in-law that they're like okay yeah we'll let him do this hopefully he got paid either way yeah Yeah, fingers crossed. Yeah, that was tough. So it wasn't just like, oh, great, I can put this in my portfolio for a paying gig, and then that's what happened.
    16:53
    Yeah, they definitely needed to be doing more. It was such an unusual theme as well. They needed to have more hype around it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I would have – no, I don't have a degree in marketing or anything, but there's a really popular show in the U.K. around this license. I maybe would have thrown an event around there and had like five machines in the lobby and just got pictures of lines of people waiting to play the new ABBA machine at the record-breaking Selling to Packed Houses virtual show or something, you know, and handing out ABBA t-shirts and getting the pre-orders going and building the hype train, right? Because this thing is just... Yeah. That's it. That's all they needed to do. That's an awesome idea. Imagine people, I mean, who's going to be going to those shows but ABBA fans. Getting pumped, listening to the songs before they go in and playing the games, you'll get some people just on impulse.
    17:44
    Even last year, you know, when they talked about they were partnering with Pendretti, they were doing this Euro Pinball Corp or something. I was in northern Italy that summer, and I'm like, can I swing by the factory and just, you know, have a look around, you know, talk to you guys or something, you know, interview or just, you know, stop by and say hi, shoot a picture or something. And they acted like, we have no idea what you're even asking us. And I'm like, ah, that's kind of a missed opportunity. Wow, yeah. You know, this game was coming out, and I reached out, and I'm like, man, can I come by a couple weeks early and maybe, you know, get my hands on it? I love playing new pinball. You know, I'll sign an NDA, but then when you guys launch, I'll go ahead and give my impressions of the game, like, right away. And, you know, at first it was like, okay, yeah, let's see what we can do. And then nothing, and then the announcement that the guy I was talking to is leaving the company, and then that's just where we're at here. So it's like I'm not rooting against these guys at all. I want good pinball, but they're making it hard to like them. Yeah, it's tough to communicate.
    18:41
    Sorry, it's tough to get excited when you can't communicate well. Yeah, and I'm not putting it all on them. Maybe the licensor said nobody can see this until its final approval or something, but I think we could help out a little bit more. And right now they should be saying, when can I play this? Because this isn't a game that I'm putting a deposit on based on what I saw so far. So if this is going to be at one of the next major shows in the U.S. in July in Georgia, the Southern Fried Gaming Expo, is it going to be there? Is it going to be at Expo? We don't know when we're going to be able to see this to play it. And even if I don't want it for my game room, maybe I want it for my location. Maybe I've got the population where I think this would really work, but I'm not getting that information.
    19:29
    And within the next few weeks, we may have a new reveal from Stern, and then there goes everybody's deposits. Yes, that's where it's kind of a conundrum for me. I don't understand where they came up with the pricing. Is it from the license? Is the license expensive as hell? But you've got the Ripley editions coming out cheaper than the other editions of Alien, and then you come out with this bad boy, which has skyrocketed the pricing, especially here in Australia. I mean, if you're going to have sales, you're going to have sales of ABBA in Australia.
    20:06
    They are looking for just under 20,000 Australian for the collector's edition. And that's going up against LEs, stern LEs. Yeah. Am I going to go for an ABBA, which has no different gameplay than the limited edition? Or am I going to go for a Jaws LE? I don't know. I think I know what direction I'm going. Yeah, and when Alien came out, it was a wide body. It had two different sets of code in it. It had flashing beacons on the back of the back box like a topper.
    20:45
    It had interior lighting integrated into it. So it seemed like more of a, okay, kind of a more premium product. And then this one just seems to offer less. It's the same price. And right, you've got one pin's worth of budget in your wallet. What's going to make you grab ABBA and not whatever's coming next from Stern? Or even step down to Stern Premium and get the same gameplay as an LE. Plus the topper. Yeah, yeah. And if you're trying to make money off this thing on location, they're making it hard to like them.
    21:18
    I know. I feel bad. I don't like to just rag, rag, rag. I want to try to find positives out of it and hopefully things that we can look to their next game and say, I really hope they utilize this in the future.
    21:34
    Thinking of the cool mechs, different ball locks like the helicopter. I don't like that the helicopter just dumps the balls out onto the playfield.
    21:44
    That's kind of weird. If this was Predator, we'd be having a completely different conversation right now. For sure, yeah. I'd be upset if it didn't dump the balls out onto the playfield, yeah. But when you could go pick up an old Bally Williams and a Ninja Eclipse for the same price of Bad Art ABBA, it's like, what are we doing? Bad Art ABBA.
    22:08
    And during the pre-release hype, when the thing that everybody's saying is maybe ABBA is just a code word, right? That's not a good take. And there was an old NES game called Ikari Warriors. It was kind of a ripoff of a Rambo, Commando-type game. And the code to Respawn was ABBA. So I was like, it's all coming together, man. This is going to be Contra or something. You made that pathway to Predator.
    22:34
    Carve it in any which way. This is where my brain is at. So I guess we'll wait and see. We'll wait and see. I figure it'd be fun if we're done with the ABBA bit. We can kind of talk about some other recent releases. And has anything made it over to us yet? We're still waiting on Jaws. Yeah.
    22:52
    We've got our launch party is going to be on the 8th of June. So a fair while between making it to locations around. Yeah. Locations like the District Don Arcade there. Oh, my God. This game. This game is special, man. Especially with that white powder coat on it now. That looks very premium. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, that was the right color for this. Yeah, for those of you that don't have a camera that can watch this right now, I spun my camera around and showed them my Jaws build. I just got the powder coat back. I've got a Jaws Premium, and I tricked it out with the white armor. I got the Cab Custom armor, so not only did you get that shark bite, but it also has Jaws with the woman swimming over, kind of backlit with this literary foam material. And then I've got another set I'm giving away as well. But then I also did the coin door and the speaker panel in this Illusion Pacific color. So it's kind of got this two-tone kind of teal and white thing going on with chrome door inserts. I'm so satisfied with this build of this game.
    23:57
    I can see you're excited just staring at it. I mean, when you do the powder coat, it's got that different feel. I got to play a Jaws LE at TPF a couple weeks ago, and yeah, I was like, man, I can't wait to get my powder back. It's back now. This thing is awesome. But, yeah, what a game. I can't wait for everyone to play this, you know, for it to get over there. Yeah. Is this going to be at a location near you that they're doing the launch party? No, not near us. The Pinchak is literally the Outback Pinchak. We are 12 hours away from our closest pinball place.
    24:32
    Those are Australian distances, though, right? Yeah, that doesn't count. That's nothing. Other than the pub in town here, which has a Stern NBA and a Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. Which are both out of use. You lucked out. Yeah, they were both out of order the last time we went there. So I know that the operator is coming up soon to have a look at those, but the Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro, we're all over that usually. Yeah, we like that one. Yeah, I've got it right at the other side of Jaws right now. I finally was able to source one of those. What an awesome game that is. I love it. Especially, yeah, I've played all the trim levels, but, yeah, the Pro, I think, is definitely the way to go for this one. And I'm a premium guy. Yeah. But, yeah, just an awesome, like, it's brutal. It berates you as you're playing, and I just want more of it. So, I mean, you know, if you are going to only have two pins in town, like, that's not a bad one to have there. It's okay. Yeah, and then you can sort of palate cleanse on the NBA if you just want to chill out. I was super surprised when we saw it go up, because we had just got Jurassic Park. and my friend was like, are these your pinball machines? And I was like, no, they're not ours. And we went there, and it was the Black Knight, and I was like, oh, my God.
    25:46
    So that was really, it was cool. Yeah, it was nice to go in there and find them, especially when it was right after we sort of got into the hobby. We'd never expected in a town of like 5,000 people that we'd have pinball machines on location here. That's awesome. So I've been following your podcast, your podcast now phantom tail podcast you know you're you're new this year welcome super awesome and i love your perspective of coming from australia so we can get more of you know coverage from what pinball's like out there you know yeah um my wife and i you know there are some uh crazy talented players here especially uh in queensland queensland has a real concentration of high, high level players. It's a big community. And in Perth, you know, there's some really talented people there and just awesome operators. I've got to give a quick shout out to LJ Amusements that operate the location that we frequent, which is Planet Royale, and they just put every LE out on the floor. So if a Stern releases a new game, They've ordered the Ellie already, and that thing is going to be out there for everyone to play, spit on, spill beer, smack their greasy pizza fingers all over. Damn greasy chicken fingers. But they have always got them in absolute mint condition. They've got to spend so much time cleaning those machines. I don't know how they do it. But, yeah, I just need to make sure that they're getting their love from the community here. For sure. Hype them up. And that's down in Perth? Yes, it is. Yeah. Yep. They're a family company and just they love pinball. You can tell that they do. They just do a lot for the small community that's here in Perth. They do a lot for it. They put on like comps and get-togethers and all sorts of stuff. And it's just, yeah, it's such a nice little team of people here. Shout out to them for sure. Yeah. So I was going to say my wife and I, we've been wanting to go to Australia for like a decade or more. you know so and now uh i'm getting to meet people through this hobby um and learn even more i'm even more hyped to come out so hopefully the next year that can happen and you know the question is like you know do i go just gold coast it in brisbane or do i make the flight or or you know kangaroo hop or train through the desert or whatever to perth and if i do that am i going to make it past alice springs i don't know i mean from everything i hear it's just the most glamorous area ever and then you know i'd have to swing through bendigo so i would need like a full month it You need to get your block. I need to get me cube. Yeah, my cube is in Bendigo, Morty. Your cube, yeah, that's right.
    28:32
    Get in the car! Yeah, I mean, we would love to have you over here. If you think you can handle another, what, four hours on the plane? It depends. If you're coming from Queensland or, well, yeah, anywhere in Queensland, it's five hours. Sydney, four hours. Melbourne, a little less. but it's obviously a 24-hour flight just to get to the country. So you've got that as well to think about. There's so much on the East Coast to see as well. It's similar over here. Now, have you guys been to the States before? I've been to New York City only. Okay. That was my first time out of Australia on my own over to New York City.
    29:14
    Oh, that's awesome. So because we get the same kind of misconception, mostly from like Europeans, because the countries there are so close, relatively speaking. You know, when they talk about coming to the U.S., they're like, well, I want to see Miami and I want to drive over to New York. And then I figure we can drive over to Las Vegas for a day. And I'm like, hang on. That's like twenty eight hundred miles. Right. That's a three day solid drive. That's a that's a four to five hour flight, you know, to go from the East Coast, the West Coast, the U.S., sometimes six hours, depending on, you know, point to point where you're going. I'm like, the country's huge. In Australia, I think of it the same way.
    29:50
    It is, we just don't have all the cool places in between. You've got East Coast, Desert, West Coast. Yeah, that's it.
    30:01
    Down South, you've got Adelaide as well. I shouldn't forget about the South Australians, but yeah, that's the basics. So our outback, we call the flyover states, I guess.
    30:13
    Yeah, yeah. But at least there are places there you can stop. Yeah, yeah, and there's tons of features. I mean, I've crisscrossed the country several times. We have a roller coaster hobby that takes us to all the theme parks and everything. So there's a lot to see out there. And good on you guys for not planning a seven-day trip where you're going to hit every corner of the country. It sounds like you guys are giving yourself a month, it seems like. Oh, yeah, I think we're going to be over there for at least two months. Yeah. Two to three months. Yeah. Okay yeah Yeah that a proper amount of time to do it if you going to try to encompass everything Yeah It seems like every time you guys come up with another episode there more updates to the itinerary I love it. Yeah.
    30:53
    We've locked in the itinerary. It's locked in. We know what it is. Ryan has told work. We're ready to go. Yeah. So it sounds like we're going to see you guys at Expo at least, right? Expo 2025 will be there. Yep. Fantastic. And hanging around the area. We've got to visit District 82 when we come up to Wisconsin. Absolutely. Be sniffing around your little arcade there. Swing by, man. Yeah.
    31:19
    Play some b-ball. Yeah. Oh, for sure, man. If it's not filled with games by then, of course. I'm hesitant because I don't trust myself not to go in there and, you know, kick the football around and break every game that's in there. So the games have to stay out of there. There's still some more room. I still have room. So it shouldn't be that big of a problem. you guys want to run through everything yeah you always want to run through everything else we got this year i made myself a little bit of a list right um going alphabetically barbecue is the next one and obviously that's probably not made it out to us yet right no not yet no but uh it's gonna be probably on the same sort of level as the u.s as far as you know how much people love barbecue out here. Not in the same style barbecue, but yeah. We don't have smoking type of barbecue here in Australia. We've got snags on the back of a boat type of barbecue in Australia. So it's a little different, but we'll see how that goes. It's a strange game. I was just playing it. We just had a Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee, which is a three-day gaming festival. Pinball's part of it. This is like tabletop gaming, Pokemon cards, vendors, anime, old Nintendo Power magazines, everything is there, so it's like a really cool vibe. And I was able to play barbecue with the family, and up until this point, you know, I've been playing mainly, you know, by myself, and so I don't notice all those, you know, roasting meat video assets the game really has, you know, because I'm shooting the shots and things, but now playing with my family, I had time to sit back there and watch, and I'm like, yeah, they're basting some ribs now while we're playing pinball. This is a thing.
    32:56
    And I love things that are strange and unusual. I myself Femstrange and Unusual. Hashtag Lydia, hashtag Beetlejuice.
    33:04
    So, like, you know, I can appreciate it. And I do appreciate the fact that they're not asking $11,000 for us for this game. Yes. That's the big one. Yep. I mean, when you look at, look, yeah, again, when you look at ABBA, you look at BBQ, which one do you think, when you bring home, is going to drop in value more? Right. So, yeah, I think the floor on barbecue is probably closer to the MSRP than it is with AVA, for sure. I will say, you know, one of AVA's saving graces is they're only planning on a run of 500 and 300 for the two editions, so 800 altogether, which, okay, optimistically, I think that's even probably overstating it. Dude, they're selling, like, is it 800 of Looney Tunes and TCM? 8,800 each. Each, yeah. And they're still selling those. Still selling, yeah. They were sold off the show floor at MGC last weekend. And, yeah, I talk to the Spooky Guys a lot. They're local here in Wisconsin. And, yeah, that's been a good seller for her. Still not sold out yet, though, which I'm a little surprised by. And it probably speaks more to where the market is at right now with pinball. Yeah. People are being picky, which is good. They're waiting for their titles that they're hearing about or that they're just holding out hope for. They're not diving in like they were a couple of years ago. Yeah, so if you're a pinball buyer, now's a great time for you because there's a lot on the market and the prices are reasonable.
    34:39
    Just don't get stuck with something, I guess. So, yeah, the used market is really kicking. If there's anything that's come out in the last 18 months that you kind of had your eye on, now's not a bad time to go on one. I was able to get myself a Black Knight Sword of Rage recently. $5,500, which is like a steal for that. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Oh, those U.S. prices. I know. We're spoiled here.
    35:04
    But hey, you guys make them. It's close. None of this throwing it on a boat and waiting for it to get here. I think a global perspective is good to have, and I'm glad we have shows like yours that help bring that Australian perspective to everybody else. because I hear people in the U.S. complain that gas prices are $3 per gallon, which is 3.2 liters. And in the U.K., it's $6, $7, $8, $9 for the same amount.
    35:31
    People don't have that perspective of just how good we have it in a lot of different ways. So there's a little bit more grace every now and then. But yeah, for sure, with pinball prices, I look at value-added tax for Europe from U.S.-based games. It's nuts, man. You're paying almost LE prices for just entry-level machines. That's it, yeah. And we're not experts. We're nowhere near the level of a lot of the podcasters that are around, but we just love the hobby. I mean, I really freaking love this hobby.
    36:10
    It has everything that I love. And when I got into it, I didn't even know that there was this big boom happening around COVID. I was just looking at things that had mechanical, integration, electronics and gaming all bundled into one and that's pinball. And when I did get into the hobby and I saw how nuts it was going, I was like, I guess I was caught up in the hype as well. And the FOMO, man, I'm the king of FOMO right here. I'm sitting here watching everyone in their little arcades and we're out here. We're going to be moving down to Perth in a few months, and all I'm thinking about is how I'm going to set up this little arcade we've got. What am I going to do in my little workshop? I was talking to you about the 3D printer that I wanted to get. Yes, get into it. It's so fun. I want the 3D printer to organize my pantry. He wants it for all sorts of different things. Yeah, it'll be a mod city up in here. So you're going to need two. Of course, yeah. It's easy to keep it tied up, for sure. Yeah, of course.
    37:19
    It's like having a little Star Trek replicator sitting right there on your desk. It's amazing. That's cool. Yeah. So, yeah, FOMO King also. I've got plenty of games, probably too many right now. And, you know, I still hit up the Pinside Marketplace just to see, okay, what got listed over the next day, any cool deals here. And it's like, no, I definitely don't need to buy that queen that I just found.
    37:41
    I've got to exercise some restraint here. But what if the code gets bent off? right yeah well we'll see and i don't know if anything can save queen but yeah honestly you're just like fueling each other's um uh buys that you shouldn't be getting you're just fueling them yeah well it doesn't help when you're getting a ninja turds and now i'm like dang it i want a ninja turd oh man uh so excited to get it because we well before we um took the twilight zone down he hadn't really been able to play it all that much because he'd been doing the refurb and he'd been in pieces i lost my lounge room for a pretty much six weeks so he hadn't had all that time he hasn't been playing any pin and then we took it to perth and then all of a sudden we're trading it and so there's just been this like huge gap where there's been no pin in the house and there's no plane oh my goodness going on so he's deprived and then we went to the pub to try it and play it and they're shut down oh no so there's been no pin pinning um at all for for weeks thankfully uh a lot of people don't like ninja turtles so i can uh usually i can i can get a pretty good deal on that and i know that it's coming from a from an awesome awesome owner as well who's uh modded it and all sorts yeah yeah we're excited i will say this um you know i i I went and played Ninja Turtles pretty early on, you know, as I was getting into pinball over the last two years. And, you know, my skills just weren't there. And I was like kind of like, ah, disappointed because fun license, but it was just really hard for me. But I played it again last weekend at MGC. And my flipper skills have definitely improved given that I play, you know, pinball every day now. And so I'm gaining a better appreciation for it now. Like I was able to hit shots and enjoy the game on a level that I hadn't before. so just coming back to it now, I think the game's got probably a bad rap and you should use that to your advantage to get yourself one. Definitely. But yeah, I was having some decent fun on it. Yeah, I just love the idea of leveling up your turtles, taking that progression other places, which we've seen in Venom now again, and going forward I think we're going to see a lot more of this saving your progression and taking it other places as they try to push more and more into Insider Connected. As a standard in the hobby. I'm hoping that they're perfecting it now so when Pokemon does come, it's going to be implemented there. Because can you imagine? Yeah, collecting them all. Like collecting them and then going from machine to machine, logging in, and there's all your critters, right? They're all there again. They travel with you. You could feed them. Oh, man. Dude, I can't wait. Speaking of your improved flipper skills, do you want to walk us through your grand champion on Motorhead? I cannot explain that at all. Yeah, Motorhead is an unforgivingly punishing game. It's got the dual right lower flippers, the suicide flippers. So if you're holding the flippers up to try to trap a ball, it'll roll right through there. So you've got to break yourself of that. I love that on Paragon. I do love Paragon.
    40:52
    One of the shots right there in the midfield is just a kickback fist, right? So if you end up hitting that shot, it's going to come straight back at you, so you've got to react. it's very fast very flowy great orbits uh you know great spinner sounds um but yeah like it's a brutally brutal game and for some reason i think i just worked up a multiplier or something i was looping the orbits and then i got a couple of super jackpots in a row and all of a sudden i'm at like 370 million or something at mgc and then like it came up like grand champion enter your name and i'm like i'm at a show playing this how did you see did they just wipe the sd card and just powered it up like what's going on and then i checked at the end of the show was still there so you know objective badge of pride maybe it was just a software glitch but i'm gonna keep it absolutely hey there's only one of those in in the in the u.s so that might stay there for a little while dude i mean there's only one of those officially in existence i believe although you're sure there's three i'm pretty sure dave's got one in new zealand yeah and there might even be two in the US. I'm pretty sure there's three of them.
    41:59
    It's a very rare Grand Champion to get. Watching people play that and come back to play it again at the show, it had people playing it all weekend. I definitely think there's some hype behind it, at least enough for 250 machines maybe. Could we see a Total Nuclear Annihilation style run from Spooky? I think if the demand is there and people are willing to put down for it, that could happen. And, man, how awesome would that be? That would be amazing, yeah. A Super LE run of Motorhead, that would be gone in two seconds, yeah. Yeah, and not just for, like, the Motorhead fans or the home owners, but, like, operators. Like, this is a game with an easily recognizable popular license. It's a music pin, would go great in a barcade, and each game is, like, 90 seconds or less. So it's going to be a learning curve. Exactly, yeah. And for the people that love the old school stuff, couldn't get a Bond 60th because they're like $80,000.
    43:00
    But love that feel of the single level game. That and Pulp Fiction, I'm loving the little drips of old school that we're getting through. I love that old school classic pinball gameplay but done in a modern machine, modern mechanisms modern computer dated drafting I don't think every game should be like that but having these games come out with everything else too just kind of adds the right little bit of spice and the reliability of the newer technology as well and with a company like Spooky now they've gone away from we're running this game And when it's done, we're switching everything over to run this one next. They're at a point where they can run games concurrently. So they could do a little boutique, boutique run of a game like Motorhead and still do the Scoobies and the Looney Tunes and whatever's hopefully next that they're super excited about and they haven't told me anything about. But I can't wait to figure out what it is. Are we going to get a sister company called Spooky Exclusive?
    44:07
    SPX. Let's make it happen. SPX. What's going on with Dutch, man? But, yeah, they're getting raked a little bit, you know, kind of allowing it to be discovered that they've trademarked Raza of all things, you know, like these cursed properties that should just die in a hole.
    44:27
    You know, Magic Girl, beautiful looking game. And every time I've played it, of course, it's had issues and problems. I kind of think the game is fatally flawed with its layout. And it should just be, you know, a nice footnote in the pinball story and let's move on. Let's just remember it as Zombie Yeti's first game and move on. I don't think there's a problem with taking that art package and applying it to a layout that actually works, because the art looks great, but as just an anecdote in history, too, I think it earned its legendary status, and I think that's plenty.
    45:04
    But if these folks have found a way to make it into a playable, workable game with mechanisms that actually accomplish what they set out to do, hey, let's see if there's a market for it, I guess.
    45:16
    Kimba really liked the Magic Girl art. Yeah, I did. I thought she looked cool as. It had little elements of lots of the J-pop games, which I thought was interesting as well. Yeah, probably my favorite of everything. You can tell it's kind of inspired by a Circus Voltaire-y, toe-tan vibe, but yeah, probably the best of all of them. I love it. I've got the trans light on my wall. Yeah, like, it's amazing. Yeah, I really liked it. I was like, oh, I wouldn't mind seeing one of those. That's nice. I quite like that.
    45:49
    It's cool as... All right. You guys played Elton John yet? No, no. We don't see many Jersey Jacks. There were a few on location.
    46:01
    We had Wizard of Oz. We got Guns N' Roses. Heaps of Guns N Roses down here Yeah lots of Guns N Roses Because the As you would call them rednecks we call them bogans they all about the guns and roses getting shit faced and just cranking that up destroying their neighbors ears and and yeah so that's a hit down here yeah um welcome to the chat yeah like i said wizard of oz and uh what other ones have we got we've got a couple of wonkas and Toy Stories as well, but haven't seen any Elton Johns show up yet. No, no Elton Johns yet. That was a fun set to go and complete. Like, I've managed to play all the JJPs now, and Pirates of the Caribbean, that's a hard one. Even for us over here, there's not a ton on location. That's a hard one to find. Yeah, we've played the Stern Pirates. Obviously, totally different.
    46:54
    That's everywhere. But no Pirates that I've seen, and certainly not being put out on location or in shows to be beat up for a weekend.
    47:05
    Yeah, there's a smoky lounge in a bowling alley near Milwaukee that has a Pirates of the Caribbean jersey jack on location, and that's where I went. Yeah, we'll definitely have to hit that. There was a couple of boozers sitting there, and then me and my wife just giggling, finally playing this game, and the only people in the place at like 3 o'clock in the afternoon. But yeah, it's an experience to go play that game Just because of how rare it is, how hard it is to find And just how packed the gameplay and the layout is The ship that's rocking back and forth the full time And then you can shoot up there and it functions as its own upper playfield It's got flippers on it, but as the ship is tilting, your shots are changing And then you can load the ball into the cannon Which I was able to successfully do twice, I think And fire your ball at the other ship like that's just that's magic man it's very cool those pinball that please yeah yeah you know if i could have got that into the hobbit i think that would have been an awesome game too yeah i got to play the hobbit actually uh not too long ago i always talk about him on on our podcast his name is jason runs a company called pimp my pin that that refurbs and restores all the you know beat up pins that people have had in their houses for 20 years and never taken the glass off didn't even know that the glass would come off it. Wow. And he's got a really cool little collection. He's got his Godzilla LE. He's got the Big Lebowski, the Hobbit, Houdini.
    48:37
    He's got the James Bond Premium. He's got a couple of others that are just a little bit different than what you normally see around. And thankfully, I've got to play the Big Lebowski there and the Hobbit, where I wouldn't normally get the chance to. and just, man, that made me fall in love with the big Lebowski machine. Say what you will about Dutch, but man, they made a good machine there. Yeah, I got one of those in the corner too over here. Love it, yes. They actually have a special Australian back glass for that as well. No way. Yeah, there's like a little kangaroo in the background. There's like a VB, Victoria Bitter beer bottle in it. Yeah, I'll have to take a couple of photos next time and show you. I need to get that. Yeah, for sure. That's awesome. So, yeah, we've had a good run so far in 2024 with new machines, especially with Jaws coming out, Looney Tunes, TCM, probably leading the charge Elton John. And we're not even halfway through the year yet. So we've got another game from American Pinball that has a better than average chance of being at Expo. So that would be awesome, especially if it's one of the rumored Whitewater remakes or the sequel to Whitewater. that would be awesome if they can make that happen or we'll see what else they got. If it's Cuphead, which I'm also hearing, it'll at least be... I actually really like the idea of Cuphead. I know that it's weird, it's out there, but it's a really, really cool animation style.
    50:08
    It's got its fans out there and I think that that's going to do better than people think. Yeah, I mean, the animation and art are going to be carrying that. So if they can bring the lighting, the sounds, and then some sort of compelling gameplay, actually, yeah, I think it really could work. The music as well in the game, and it's got a Netflix show as well. Yeah. I think that that's going to be a big component of it as well. That? Yeah. Oh, okay. Kimba's never seen Cuphead. Oh, man. She's just looking it up now. I'm just Googling it. Yeah, yeah. Not a bad game to go find on the streaming services. Get yourself a download or whatever, or play it in the cloud. But yeah, fun kind of old school gameplay. It looks like it was drawn by Max Fleischer.
    50:54
    Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does have that rubber hose style animation. You can imagine on the LCD what that's going to be like. That's going to be really cool, I think. Yeah, hopefully they go with their new style cabinet where they can have a big screen on it because that's going to be really telling. I wonder if this will be based on the game and you're battling the bosses from the actual video game, or if they'll lean more into the cartoon series? I think for sure it'll be the game. It's got to be the game. That's where the love of Cuphead started for most people. And then, of course, the Netflix show is a nice little add-on, but the game is what it's about. And if it's going to be anything like the video game, it needs to be a pretty brutal game. I think this is how we... I think one of the other things that will be good for all of us is to grow the pinball hobby and get more people into it. Of course. And so leaning into the video games I think is where we should be doing it. Because there's already, I mean, going to this Midwest Gaming Classica, which is that. I mean, mostly it's people that are video games, tabletop gaming and things, and pinball is just a part of that. And if we can tap into that, there was some ladies that came by the Spooky Booth, didn't know really much about pinball, didn't own machines or anything, but they happened upon the Scooby-Doo. They had a great time playing it, and they ended up buying one off the show floor because they have grandkids, and they like Scooby-Doo, and it's like, that's what we need to do. Because the more people like that that we can get into pinball, the more the companies will take risks on licenses that we want to see. The problem with getting the ones that we're all asking for is the higher cost. So to make it make sense, they need to be able to sell 2,000 of them. You know, they can't go and get back to the future if they're only going to do a run of 800. You know, that needs to be like, you know, we're going to sell 3,500 of these at least to cover the cost to make it plausible.
    52:54
    So bringing in video game licenses, I think, would help. You know, if we can keep growing the tournament scene even, even though I'm not a huge tournament player, you know, if we can make that like an e-sport, you know, and attract bigger sponsors, that's where maybe that could take off. So, you know, I'm excited to see if pinball kind of goes in those directions. Yeah. It seems to be like, you know, you look on Twitch and you see the guys like Tom Graff with Fox City's pinball and obviously Carl D'Angelo, all the TPN guys, you know, streaming each week. And you can sort of see that growth just starting because, you know, you look on the pinball category and you start to see some bigger numbers, especially when you've got in-disc, you know, thousands and thousands of people watching. That's got to be increasing the number of people in the hobby. Yeah, so I think we're going to be in a different place five years from now.
    53:52
    I think so too, yeah. For sure. I'm getting thirsty. Our dog is getting thirsty. I don't know if you can hear him back there. He's getting to water. Get to water. Yeah, he's getting stuck in. he's been an absolute pain usually he's so good when we're recording he just lays there but he's been a bit of a bit of a menace tonight sorry about that oh no no that's that's perfectly fine love the doggos so yeah we should reconvene here in about three to four weeks when we have any stern to talk about for sure i think that that'd be a great idea yeah i just went and saw john wick um last week i went ahead and downloaded it because i had never seen him although culturally i'm aware of the franchise and who doesn't love some Keanu Reeves. And I'm way more optimistic about this the first time. Listen, he was Bill S. Preston, Esquire. No, he was head theater Logan. He was the Matrix. He was, what else was he? I just missed the hype about Keanu Reeves. I don't know what it is. Point Break? Everybody loves him so much and I just missed the hype. I don't know where it is. Much Ado about nothing. Hey, how about, like, if we get If we get Stern bringing out John Wick And JJP bringing out the Matrix Is this going to be the first time two manufacturers Are making a pinball machine with the same actor in it? Love it It's got to be It would be so great if they would hide little references to each other in there too You know, like throw a Matrix call out on John Wick Throw a John Wick call out on Matrix Just for fun We saw Gary Stern and Jersey Jackanary embracing in Europe about four months ago. So maybe that collaboration that we all want to have can happen.
    55:35
    Yeah, so, I mean, so, you know, assuming you like both of these licenses, do you like the companies that would be bringing them out? You know, would you rather Stern had Matrix and John Wick went to Jersey Jack, or do you like how the rumor came out? I think that it's just right. I think that the Matrix needs to be a collector's item. that thing is an iconic movie and it needs to be done no holds barred we're not worrying about a bill of materials here they're selling this bad boy for a premium price and it's going to be a premium product I think that that's without question what needs to happen with the Matrix John Wick that's going to be sharp, punchy, modern that's a stern yeah I think so I'm not sure if we get you know a new designer on John Wick but I think that it's been too long since we had a John Borg game and I think a nice brutal John Wick would be really really cool I agree yeah I want magnets I want the ball flying all over everywhere I want to be taking out guys left and right chaos just like non-stop action yeah so I'm excited if it is John Wick. I've got Jaws sold. It'll be leaving in a couple of months, and then that'll be my John Wick money, so we'll just rotate it. I'm super hype on it. I hope it's great.
    57:03
    We'll have a great arcade experience with the Wick and a great theatrical experience with Matrix. If ever there was a franchise that justifies a $15,000 limited edition USD price, I think you could justify that with Matrix. You can start to make the argument with Elton John that was a hard sell for Toy Story. Toy Story 4. Yeah, I mean, Toy Story, great. Toy Story 4? I don't know. I don't even think I've seen Toy Story 4, and I'm a Disney adult, and I don't even know if I've seen number four. Sure. Yeah, and not that it's a bad game. I like the game. My enthusiasm for the game is around $7,500.
    57:42
    My enthusiasm for ABBA is around $69.95, maybe $7.5. but yeah it's not 10 and 11 so when I say like we kind of sandbag these games it's not because the game is bad or the designers are bad but you're asking a ton of money for these products and so that allows me to be more critical Pirates of the Caribbean from Jersey Jack is amazing but at $25,000 $30,000 no no no no no no sir no no no thank you $12,000 I'd have one so So, yes, that's kind of what colors it. So hopefully we don't see a price jump with Matrix. I don't think they have a price jump at this point. I think maybe when we eventually get to the Harry Potter, that's going to be the price jump, I think. Or Wizarding World, whatever it ends up being. The Hagrid edition, yeah.
    58:40
    Hagrid's Motorbike Adventure. Oh, man, I can't wait to hang out and talk theme parks with you guys. That is going to be really cool. I can't wait. I need to pick your brain about the theme parks because I'm very confused. happy to do that so maybe we stay on for the after show all right how do people find your podcast where you guys at you got you can just uh look up on any podcast service the phantom tilt pinball podcast get on facebook get on instagram and look up phantom tilt pinball and if you really want you can email us like a grandma at phantom tilt pod at gmail.com that's awesome i will say in uh in grandma's defense email is a good way for me to keep track of messages, especially for shipping. So, you know, when you're trying to text back and forth, it's a little bit verbose. But, yeah, for the Jaws Armor giveaway I'm doing, which is happening this month on April 30th, everybody worldwide can enter. The way you enter is by emailing me at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. A photo of yourself in a Jaws machine is the only criteria. You know, it doesn't have to be your machine. It doesn't have to be a machine in reality. Get a crayon drawing or something. Get creative with it. Can we put a photo of the machine on our big TV and take a selfie? Maybe. Yeah, I've seen some absolute garbage images sent my way already, and they all qualify. So I just thought it would be something fun, you know, encourage yourselves any way you can to get out and play it or participate in this game however you can. If you want to paper craft one and enter, that would work too. I'm going to do a drawing on all the entries I get on April 30th, and somebody's getting a set of this. This armor is already powder coated. It's, like, ready to go. So that was fun, courtesy of Cab Custom. who does custom laser-cut armor at about half the price of what the big boys charge for their official releases. So that is, for a guy that pimps out his machines like me, that's awesome. I love it.
    60:30
    You've turned your premium into an LE almost. I mean, yeah, I love being able to do that. Well, thanks so much, guys, for joining. This is awesome. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us. Yeah, it was our pleasure. Welcome back anytime.
    60:48
    Thank you so much to Ryan and Kimmel from the Phantom Tilt Podcast for joining me here on Don's Pinball Huggins episode 115. Be sure to enter to win some Jaws armor. That giveaway is coming up on the 30th. If any other news breaks between now and tomorrow or the next seven days from now, you will hear it on Don's Pinball Podcast.
    61:07
    Email your comments and follow on the Facebook page. You know I love my Patreon members, and I'm rewarding them with nonstop content like outtakes from this episode. Go listen to them. And more stuff coming soon. Email Jeff at MadPipper.com. Follow, like, subscribe, everything to the Phantom Phil Podcast crew.
    61:26
    I'm having fun at pinball, yeah.