Episode 934: "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie Another Theme"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·17m 53s·analyzed·Apr 8, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

ABBA pinball is a missed marketing opportunity targeting the wrong audience, but Kaneda remains focused on upcoming John Wick release.

Summary

Kaneda discusses the Pinball Brothers' ABBA pinball reveal, arguing it's a niche product designed for ABBA fans rather than pinball enthusiasts and criticizing poor marketing strategy. He reflects on upcoming games like John Wick and Funhouse, shares location play experiences with Stranger Things and Looney Tunes, and considers selling his Batman 66 SLE to make room in his new home.

Key Claims

ABBA is being designed for ABBA enthusiasts, not pinball aficionados, and that's okay
high confidence · Kaneda's explicit thesis about game positioning and target audience
Only 800 ABBA machines are being made
high confidence · Kaneda states 'they're only making 800 ABBA machines' and later '888 Texas Chainsaw Massacre games'
ABBA pinball has no interesting mechanical or layout innovations and an 'atrocious' art package
high confidence · Kaneda's detailed critique of the game's design elements
Order banks for ABBA opened on Saturday following a hotel bar launch event
high confidence · Kaneda: 'order banks opened up on Saturday'
John Wick is coming within three weeks
medium confidence · Kaneda prediction: 'It's coming, people. It's going to be out within the next three weeks'
ABBA is more culturally popular than Texas Chainsaw Massacre
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'ABBA is way more popular in culture than the Texas Chainsaw Massacre' based on music video view counts
Stranger Things Pro with UV kit in dark environment creates one of the best 'wow moments' in modern pinball
high confidence · Kaneda's personal experience at Barcade: 'that is one of the most wow moments in pinball since I've been playing pinball'
ABBA machines will likely go on sale within a few months due to poor demand
medium confidence · Kaneda prediction: 'the Pinball Brothers will probably have to put this game on sale'

Notable Quotes

“It's not even a theme most of you want. It's not a theme that's going to take money out of your wallet.”
Kaneda @ Early in episode — Frames ABBA as niche and dismisses community outrage as misplaced
“They're making this game for ABBA enthusiasts, for people who love the band. They're not making it for pinball aficionados.”
Kaneda @ Mid-episode — Core thesis about product positioning and target market misalignment
“It's like they're just looking for 800 wives of pinball people who live in Europe and Australia to absorb all of these games.”
Kaneda @ Mid-episode — Skeptical commentary on Pinball Brothers' market strategy and geographic targeting
“I would turn my couch upside down and shake out the loose change and find enough money to buy an Elton John Platinum because that's a far superior game on every single level.”
Kaneda @ Mid-episode — Comparative criticism emphasizing ABBA's weakness relative to similar music-themed games
“Don't make the party the only way people can experience the machine...order banks opened up on Saturday. Isn't everyone just tired of this?”
Kaneda @ Mid-episode — Direct criticism of Pinball Brothers' launch marketing strategy and timing
“That is one of the most wow moments in pinball since I've been playing pinball...This is how Stranger Things should have came out on day one.”
Kaneda @ Late episode — Praise for UV/atmospheric execution in established games; sets standard for new releases
“We need more magic. Are you listening, pinball companies? It is not that hard. For this much money, we should have more games with creative use of magnets and UV lighting and LED lighting.”
Kaneda @ Late episode — Industry-wide call for innovation and immersive design beyond baseline mechanics
“It's either wow or I'm keeping my money safe. And I think all of us are starting to feel that way.”

Entities

Kanedaperson Pinball BrotherscompanyABBAgameJohn WickgameStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany Dutch Pinballcompany

Signals

?
announcement: ABBA pinball officially revealed by Pinball Brothers; order banks opened on Saturday following hotel bar launch event
high · Kaneda: 'ABBA pinball has been revealed to the world' and 'order banks opened up on Saturday'
?
product_strategy: ABBA positioned as niche music-themed game for ABBA fans, not pinball enthusiasts; 800-unit production run
high · Kaneda's thesis throughout: 'It's a music pin. This game is meant for people that love ABBA music. It's not meant for pinball aficionados'
~
sentiment_shift: Mixed community reaction to ABBA reveal; Kaneda encourages perspective, noting not all games are for all audiences
medium · Kaneda calls for calm and notes threads with collectors discussing purchases; emphasizes game will be 'quickly forgotten'
?
product_concern: ABBA criticized for lack of mechanical innovation, layout depth, and poor art package; described as 'fan layout' similar to Queen
high · Kaneda: 'There's nothing really going on in the game from a mechanical standpoint. That is very interesting. There's nothing going on in the layout...the art package is atrocious'
?
content_signal: Pinball Brothers failed to provide gameplay videos at launch; relied solely on hotel bar event footage; Kaneda criticizes lack of pre-launch content
high · Kaneda: 'What they should have done is they should have had in the can, ready to go, some great gameplay videos...Don't make the party the only way people can experience the machine'

Topics

ABBA pinball reveal and marketingprimaryMarket segmentation: enthusiasts vs. casual/theme fansprimaryUpcoming major releases (John Wick, Funhouse, Alice in Wonderland, Pulp Fiction)primaryGame design quality and innovation expectationsprimaryLocation play and venue qualitysecondaryCollector personal collection curation and secondary market pricingsecondaryAtmospheric/immersive features (UV, magnets, LED) as differentiatorssecondaryIndustry pricing and value justification at premium price pointsmentioned

Sentiment

mixed(0.35)— Kaneda is dismissive and skeptical about ABBA pinball, criticizing its design, marketing, and market fit. However, he expresses optimism and excitement about John Wick, Funhouse, and other upcoming titles, and speaks positively about Stranger Things' atmospheric execution. Overall tone is critical but not hostile—he's calling for industry improvement rather than attacking specific people.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.054

Give me, give me, give me a man at the midnight one. Somebody help me change the channel somewhere. Sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up. Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I'm your host Kaneda. How's everybody doing? Happy Monday on this total eclipse of the heart day. Hopefully you're somewhere in America where you get to witness a total solar eclipse. I saw it like six years ago, Bonnie Tyler on board a Royal Caribbean Antonio Cruz ship. This year, I don't see anyone working with Bonnie, but you're not here to talk about total solar eclipses. You want to talk about pinball, and we're going to talk about the pinball brothers. ABBA pinball has been revealed to the world. Pinball marketing continues to be the worst marketing on planet Earth, but I want to kind to calm everybody down. Is it really worth getting so upset that the Pinball Brothers revealed the game in a really pedestrian way? It's not even a theme most of you want. It's not a theme that's going to take money out of your wallet. So I really do implore each and every one of us, there's moments in pinball where we should get upset, right? If Jersey Jack nerfs the Matrix game and doesn't sync up the assets or integrate it into the machine in the right way, then get upset. If Dutch Pinball just completely flops on Back to the Future and doesn't give us the right Back to the Future game, then get upset. But I am not going to die on an ABBA hill. This is not a theme that most of you want. Now, that being said, it's also not the worst theme in the history of pinball. There's a game that also just came out, Barry O's Barbecue Challenge. They're not going to sell nearly as many of those as the pinball brothers will sell of ABBA. Here's the thing about ABBA, and I've just been thinking about this for a while. It's a music pin. This game is meant for people that love ABBA music. It's not meant for pinball aficionados, right? It's not being designed by someone like Jack Danger or Keith Elwin, and they're just going to slap a music theme on top of a game being designed by a designer the pinball enthusiasts love. Who's even designing ABBA Pinball? Is it a household name? They're making this game for ABBA enthusiasts, for people who love the band. They're not making it for pinball aficionados. And once you realize that, it means that this game is not for most of you. And I think everyone needs to just be okay with that. Like it's okay if a pinball company makes a game. That's not meant for you. It's not meant for the Canada audience. It's not meant for the pin side crowd. It's meant for probably people overseas who love this band so much who may want to own one of these things. Now here's the other part though. If you love ABBA and you love their music, you can enjoy ABBA music for hardly any money whatsoever. We don't really see this desire. If you love something, right? If I love this band or I love this movie and I'm not into pinball, that I'm going to wake up and spend $10,000 to $11,000 on a pinball machine because I love the band. We're not going to see that much crossover And that's why for a game to be commercially successful in pinball, you have to kind of hook both pinball fans and fans of the theme. Because most people out there on the normal planet who live on Earth, they think a pinball machine costs like $2,000. They are not going to wake up and spend $10,000 to $11,000 on this pinball machine because they love ABBA. And so look, let's talk about this game first and foremost. It's pretty much a fan layout. It looks like it's Queen without the upper play field There's nothing really going on in the game from a mechanical standpoint. That is very interesting There's nothing going on in the layout. That's very interesting and there's nothing on the art package That very interesting In fact the art package is atrocious so right there this game doesn hold a candle to the other games coming out in the pinball world And if I had like I would turn my couch upside down and shake out the loose change and find enough money to buy an Elton John Platinum because that's a far superior game on every single level. like Elton John does so much so well and it makes ABBA look really, really pedestrian. So the game itself is not that interesting. Then we get to the game launch and the reveal and the fact that they brought three ABBA machines to a really crowded and loud hotel bar lounge area where you really couldn't hear the game and all we got was crappy over-the-shoulder footage of the game being played by people at the event And it just goes to show you, here we are again, bad, bad marketing. What they should have done is they should have had in the can, ready to go, some great gameplay videos that they released in conjunction with the party itself. Don't make the party the only way people can experience the machine. And they should have had some gameplay stuff ready to go. And the reason why is this, is because order banks opened up on Saturday. Isn't everyone just tired of this where you don't show people enough of the game and you want them to spend $10,000 to $11,000 on a product without knowing enough information? And again, it's just not for any of us. I guess they don't even care. They don't care about finding a way to get the pinball buying community excited about this game. It's like they're just looking for 800 wives of pinball people who live in Europe and Australia to absorb all of these games. Now, they're only making 800 ABBA machines. And when you think about it like this, ABBA music is really popular. Like I was just looking at the Gimme Gimme Gimme music video. It's got like 450 or 500 million views, people. half a billion views on YouTube for that one song. And I'm just going to say this, and this might not be popular. ABBA is way more popular in culture than the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, okay? And so there is going to be 888 Texas Chainsaw Massacre games that are going to be made. And if they only need to sell 800 ABBA machines, I don't think they're going to have that much of a problem moving all of these games during an entire year, especially if they get these games set up in that theater that's playing the ABBA Voyage movie. Like just fish where the fish are. And I think when they put this thing in front of diehard ABBA fanatics, they're definitely gonna sell a few. Now, are they gonna sell all 800? Maybe not, right? Maybe not, because there's probably not enough here to justify getting one to any of us pinball aficionados. and I know when you go into the thread and it's just Iceman and Neil McRae and Beezleboob like talking to each other about getting one, you gotta just throw that commentary out the window. It doesn't matter. Like these really rich collectors who can buy everything, I don't care about their opinions because they can buy every single game that comes out and they will justify their purchases on every single game they buy because they all just fall back into the same category of, well, it's fun. And I think all pinball machines are fun. And so life is short. Spend your money where you want to. And I'm going to go buy one because I want to have fun. And I don't think you and I are like that. I think we're going to spend our money on a game if it does something special. If it brings something new and magical to the table. If a theme integrates. Something we really love. Like that's where everybody is at right now in pinball in 2024. and so that's why ABBA is a game that like two weeks from now you're not even going to talk about you're not going to care about it it's going to be so quickly forgotten in the world of pinball we're going to move on to other games we're going to move on to stuff like John Wick we're going to talk more about Pulp Fiction we're going to wonder what's next from John Borg and Stern Pinball come this fall with Spike 3 we going to wonder if Jersey Jack has the Matrix we going to wonder where Harry Potter is what Steve Ritchie next game is There so much more exciting stuff happening in pinball Is Dutch pinball going to be able to make Alice in Wonderland with all of the magic it's going to need to sell 500 units? Are they going to become Zidware 2.0? More Magic Girls, more Razzas, more Big Bang Bars. All of this stuff happening in pinball, it's almost like too much. I don't even know how to get my arms around all the stuff happening in the pinball world. But I will tell you this, the game we're not going to be talking about, the game you're not going to be selling stocks to buy is ABBA pinball. It's going to be a game that comes out and in just a few months, the pinball brothers will probably have to put this game on sale. It's crazy to me that Alien is like an $8,000 machine and they're charging $3,000 more for this empty ABBA machine, it's just not going to work, everybody. And I don't expect a lot from pinball marketing, but they should have had more ready to go on launch date. But I really don't care. I don't care about the pinball brothers. I know you don't really care about the pinball brothers. And now my focus this month is all going to be about John Wick. And when is Stern going to give it to us? It's coming, people. It's going to be out within the next three weeks. So get ready for some crazy Canadian pinball podcasts as we see John Wick, as we see Funhouse from Pedretti Gaming. We've also got Alice in Wonderland in like the next couple of months. But we need some great stuff in the here and the now, right? I really mean this. Like we need some great stuff right now. I was looking at MGC, people going to the Midwest Gaming Classic. And by the way, if you went to that show, it looks like your feet must be killing you. It's like hard concrete floor and you look at all those games lined up and all the console games and I heard people had to wait an hour to get into MGC. No thank you. I'd rather sit on my couch and play Xbox than spend all this money traveling to shows where you can't even really enjoy the games. It's all about the people and I'm sure if you were there, you had a good time. But just looking at that concrete floor made me happy. I had my feet up on my coffee table. You know, we just really need to see some hit games and we haven't seen a hit game in a long time. You know, Jaws is not lighting the pinball world on fire. Of course, Jaws is holding value. I'm gonna give you a little bit of something I've been thinking about personally as I think about moving into my new home and I probably only have room for one pinball machine. I know I can maybe sneak in a second one into the garage, but here's my dilemma right now. I've got this home. I'm gonna have it for a while. I've got room for one pinball machine to look really nice inside this house. Which machine do I put in the house? Is it Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition? Do I put that number 500 into the house? Do I make it Batman 66 SLE? Do I make it Pulp Fiction? Obviously, Pulp Fiction's probably not gonna make it because I have little kids and it's not appropriate. And I would say that Batman would probably be the most fun for my kids to play with considering the theme of Batman and Robin and the Joker and the Penguin and Catwoman. But Guns and Roses, man, it's like, ah, it's like I love Guns and Roses so much. And when other people come over, I'd much rather play GNR. And just as a pure like work of art, as beautiful as Batman 66 is, that GNR in jukebox mode is kind of epic. And I would love to just have that behind me as I do my Saturday morning spectaculars. So I might be thinking about, I know this is crazy, I might be selling my Batman 66 SLE. Now, if you're someone who might be interested in this game, it is sitting at Cointaker. It is ready to be shipped out tomorrow. No hassle, no finagling, no nothing. So if you are somewhat interested in this game, hit me up and we can talk. If the price is right, I might let this game go. And you know what I paid for it. I paid $25,000. Now look I don think I going to make much money on this game But I also know I not going to lose money on this game So I might get out of it So we see I be willing to entertain offers and I haven seen any Batman SLE sell for south of $25K. You're not going to get $50K or $35K. It's definitely worth $25K or more. And remember, my game's got that playfield protector on it from day one, and that game dimples so badly. What else is happening in the world of pinball? I got to put a few plays on Looney Tunes pinball. I went over to Barcade on like 24th Street in New York City in Chelsea, and they had a Looney Tunes there. Now look, it is a horrible environment to hear the game. You can't really hear any of the game. So I only got to put on around three to four plays. And I will say this, the game does have a lot to shoot at. I was really impressed on the amount of shots that are in this game. And I definitely want to spend some more time on Looney Tune. I just couldn't figure out how to light up the white film reel triangles to start a mode. Like I kept hitting the white shots, but I don't know if that's what you're supposed to do and collect a certain amount of them. And then one of those triangles lights up on the film reel. I just need to figure out how to play the game. And look, we talk about location play, location play, location play. But it really is hard to get into a game on location unless the location is really set up for pinball. And Barcade is not. Like, it's crowded with so many arcade machines. And there's only five pinball machines there. But I want to say this. One of the machines that was there, I have never experienced this before in this game until now. They had a Stranger Things Pro. And this was the first time in a dark environment I ever experienced the UV kit happening in a Stranger Things machine. And I just want to say, it blew me away. Like, that is one of the most wow moments in pinball since I've been playing pinball. And it just really worked. Like, it really gave me that feeling the game was in the upside down. And I just want to say, this is how Stranger Things should have came out on day one. And I understand now why a lot of you guys really love this game because it really did create like this atmospheric wow moment. And we just need more of that in pinball. Are you listening, pinball companies? It is not that hard. For this much money, we should have more games with creative use of magnets and UV lighting and LED lighting. you're not going to win us over with stuff that's not even as good as the mechanisms that came out in the mid-90s. We need more magic. All right, everybody, look, I hope you have a great Monday. This is a shorter episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast. Thank you guys all for being club members. We'll be back with more episodes of Canada's Pinball Podcast this week. To summarize today's show, ABBA is going to be a miss for most of us, but most of us don't even care, So don't take it too personally. I don't think they made this game for you. I think Funhouse is going to be dead on arrival at the price point of that game. And I think John Wick is the next big thing we're all waiting for. Is Stern going to be able to justify the cost of John Wick with an experience that's going to create some wow moment in pinball? Because it's either wow or I'm keeping my money safe. And I think all of us are starting to feel that way. Everybody be good. We'll be back. Kaneda out. Thank you.