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DPP #72 "Expo talk with Coz!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·1h 4m·analyzed·Sep 29, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Expo prep discussion with insider perspective on rumored game announcements and industry dynamics.

Summary

Don Garrison interviews Brian Cosner about Chicago Pinball Expo expectations, covering rumored game announcements from major manufacturers (American Pinball, Pinball Brothers, Mystery Pinball Company), the Stern factory tour, and the 'Pinball: The Mystery Theater 3000' film screening. Key topics include Magic Girl secondary market pricing, Galactic Arcade Tank Force cast appearances, and speculation on upcoming releases from several publishers.

Key Claims

  • Magic Girl NIB copies are expected at Chicago Pinball Expo, with secondary market examples selling for $3,500–$3,600

    high confidence · Don and Brian discussing Expo inventory and secondary market pricing for Magic Girl

  • American Pinball has four to five games in development, including titles from Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman, and Ryan McQuaid

    medium confidence · Brian citing rumored development pipeline; credits McQuaid with work on Sonic (likely referring to another game)

  • Stern Factory tour scheduled for October 19th at approximately 9–10 AM during Expo

    high confidence · Don citing confirmed Expo schedule information

  • The film 'Pinball: The Mystery Theater 3000' will screen at Expo with a Q&A featuring Roger Sharpe on October 19th

    high confidence · Don and Brian discussing confirmed Expo programming; film previously unavailable for public screening due to rights issues

  • Pinball Brothers recently partnered with a large production facility in northern Italy to expand manufacturing capacity

    medium confidence · Brian referencing reported partnership; not independently verified in conversation

  • CGC may have lost the Planetary Pinball relationship or another manufacturer acquired it

    low confidence · Brian speculating on licensing dynamics; explicitly states uncertainty

  • Joe Schober (American Pinball programmer) may be working or have worked on code for CGC alongside Queen programming

    medium confidence · Brian recalling a sighting but uncertain about confirmation

  • Mystery Pinball Company has been cryptic about their upcoming title despite community pressure for timeline information

    high confidence · Don and Brian discussing the company's communication strategy and lack of release date clarity

Notable Quotes

  • “There's been some drama this last week. Maybe the biggest story of this whole week... all over Facebook.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~2:00 — Sets up comedic exchange about Taylor Swift/Travis Kelce (off-topic digression); establishes Brian's personality

  • “Magic Girl... the art is fire. Like, even today, everything that Yeti has done, I'm still digging that. Like, I don't have any pinball tattoos, but if I was considering something, you could do a lot worse than Magic Girl.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~15:00 — Highlights Magic Girl's cultural cachet and artistic appeal despite high secondary market prices

  • “I played GTF once out on location, and I really did like the lights, the lighting, and the art on it was really good... I think it's something that would probably be enjoyed a little more in a home setting because of all the different full motion video.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~35:00 — Player perspective on Galactic Arcade Tank Force: acknowledges design intent (FMV) but notes location play challenges

  • “I think the marketing was fumbled... it took until Franchi was on Alben's podcast before I even understood what the backstory of the game was.”

    Don Garrison @ ~38:00 — Critique of Galactic Arcade Tank Force's marketing execution; notes podcast as critical explainer

  • “Virtual pinball is good for the hobby... Not everybody can afford a $5,000 to $10,000, $15,000 game. But most everybody has a PlayStation or they have their phone.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~65:00 — Defense of virtual pinball as gateway/accessibility tool; addresses affordability barrier

  • “They're going to need something else to put on the line... are they going to have something? And if so, is it going to be an original game or one of these remakes?”

    Don Garrison @ ~75:00 — Directly addresses Pinball Brothers' upcoming release pressure and original vs. remake speculation

  • “The pictures that they released so far of the underside of the play field... They showed some cabinets on an assembly line... There's game fields that are being populated.”

Entities

Don GarrisonpersonBrian CosnerpersonSterncompanyAmerican PinballcompanyPinball BrotherscompanyCGCcompanyMystery Pinball CompanycompanyChicago Pinball Expo

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Chicago Pinball Expo October 19th scheduled events: Stern factory tour (morning, ~9–10 AM), 'Pinball: The Mystery Theater 3000' film screening with Roger Sharpe Q&A; multiple manufacturer booths with game announcements expected

    high · Confirmed by both hosts; explicitly cited dates and times

  • ?

    machine_intel: Two new-in-box Magic Girl copies expected at Chicago Pinball Expo; specific condition/modification status unknown; secondary market comps at $3,500–$3,600

    high · Direct statement from Brian: 'we're seeing that there's going to be two there that are new in box'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: American Pinball rumored to have 4–5 games in development from multiple designers (Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman, Ryan McQuaid); potential Expo announcement or reveal

    medium · Brian citing development pipeline; no official confirmation; McQuaid credit unclear

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Pinball Brothers expected to announce new game (original IP or remake) at Expo; remakes rumored (Big Ben Heck, Twilight Zone) but not confirmed; original game also possible

    medium · Brian: 'I keep hearing remakes are coming... we've heard Twilight Zone for like a year now'; Don: 'something will need to be announced soon for them to follow up with Queen'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Mystery Pinball Company has major licensed IP game in development; title/IP not yet revealed; teaser factory images released; community pressure for timeline/announcement

    medium · Brian: 'It's been rumored that it's some type of major IP that's going to be really big'; assembly line photos and playfield reflections show active production

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.194

0:00
oh don garrison's pinball podcast is sliding back into your ear holes for episode number 72 and we got something special we're all about innovation here at the worldwide headquarters of don's pinball podcast we got some expo news and views coming up and something special ready let's hit it Wow! Swinging into our Thursday? It's midweek, right? Let's cover this episode or this information with another episode or this time period with some views you can't afford to lose. And for my first time only, I am coming in here with a co-host, Mr. Brian Cosner from Virginia. Brian Cos, what's up? How are you doing, man? I think I called you Cosner. I put that Z in there that you wanted.
1:08
Cosner, it doesn't matter. Now, the cause you may remember as the foreign correspondent for American Pinball from the illustrious pinball show from like last year, which is where I first heard of you. And then I met you in the flesh at the Louisville Pinball Arcade Expo last year. Oh, yeah. World famous Louisville.
1:28
It was some good times that we had there. So what's up, man? Thanks for coming on and joining. Let's do this co-host thing. Let's just have a couple of guys talking about pinball, hanging out in the midweek in the lead up to Expo. That's all it is, pinball, man. Let's just talk about pinball. All right. So first off, are you going to Chicago's Pinball Expo? Well, Don, first off, look, there's been some drama this last week. Maybe the biggest story of this whole week. Oh. And it's been all over Facebook. Oh, shoot. And everyone seems to have an opinion on this. Yes. So I want to hear straight from you your opinion, okay? Right. What do you think about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey? Come on. I mean, you know, like I was broken up over this, you know, and I probably lashed out and I probably said some words online that I didn't mean. I wasn't thinking and I would like to walk some of that back, you know, because, you know, I've always I've been long standing with Team Tay-Tay. You know, so this kind of threw me for a loop. But, you know, I'm coming to terms with it. And I am, you know, if anybody that was offended at what I did and, you know, the clothing that I wore in protest, I have to officially apologize. So you're a Chiefs fan now? I mean, you know, I keep it on the DL since I live in the cheese land of Green Bay, but I ain't going to lie. I got some KC in my heart somewhere. All right. That's the biggest thing I wanted to talk about. Another Swift. Yeah, I knew it was going to come out, man, but my spirit feels lifted now. All right.

Brian Cosner @ ~95:00 — Evidence that Mystery Pinball Company has functional production pipeline; signals credibility/delivery capability

  • “If they have 20 games built on day one and say here they are, they're ready for sale, then it's going to help out a whole lot.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~100:00 — Commentary on industry trust issues with pre-orders; sets expectation for responsible launch strategy

  • “Put up or shut up... Come on, like give us like a timeline of when we're going to see something... if they go quiet for six months again, everybody is going to forget about them.”

    Don Garrison @ ~88:00 — Articulates community frustration with Mystery Pinball Company's communication opacity; signals hype decay risk

  • “I would much rather see that like a brand new, original, themed game... just something like that just a new game.”

    Brian Cosner @ ~80:00 — Community preference for original IP over remakes; expressed as general sentiment rather than insider knowledge

    • event
    Magic Girlgame
    Galactic Arcade Tank Forcegame
    Queengame
    Joe Schoberperson
    Barry Ourslerperson
    Dennis Nordmanperson
    Ryan McQuaidperson
    Roger Sharpeperson
    Rob Burkeperson
    David Freyperson
    Yetiperson
    Zach Sharpeperson
    Pinball: The Mystery Theater 3000product
    Spookycompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Electric Bat Arcadevenue
  • ?

    community_signal: Community frustration with Mystery Pinball Company's cryptic communication strategy; lack of release timeline causing hype decay; expectation for structured information rollout

    high · Don: 'Come on, like give us like a timeline... if they go quiet for six months again, everybody is going to forget about them'

  • ?

    product_concern: Galactic Arcade Tank Force criticized for fumbled marketing; game's cheesy FMV concept and backstory not communicated effectively in launch materials; podcast appearance clarified intent after fact

    high · Don: 'the marketing was fumbled... it took until Franchi was on Alben's podcast before I even understood what the backstory of the game was'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Galactic Arcade Tank Force designed with intentional cheesy FMV aesthetic (retro Sega CD/3DO style); mixed player reception; better suited for home setting than location play due to audio/video requirements

    high · Brian and Don discussing '90s retro cheesy video clips like your Sega CD games'; Brian: 'I think it's something that would probably be enjoyed a little more in a home setting'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Magic Girl secondary market prices ranging $3,500–$3,600 for NIB examples; mentioned as benchmark for other rare games; FOMO dynamics driving collector interest

    high · Don: 'The Last Arcade one that I've seen sold was like $3,500, $3,600'; Brian discussing justification for ownership

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Pinball Brothers partnered with large production facility in northern Italy to expand manufacturing capacity post-Queen

    medium · Brian: 'they just partnered with that huge production facility in Italy, in northern Italy there'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Joe Schober (American Pinball programmer) may be working for CGC in addition to American Pinball role; possible code work on Queen and other projects

    low · Brian: 'One time I saw that he was going to be working at CGC as well. I don't know if that ever happened'

  • ?

    content_signal: 'Pinball: The Mystery Theater 3000' film previously unavailable for public screening due to rights issues; now cleared for Expo screening with Roger Sharpe; Kevin Loza did podcast interview with film producers

    high · Don: 'this year they're going to actually have it at Expo... I guess it'll be one of those show halls... they're going to have a Q&A with Roger Sharpe right after the movie'

    • 3:01
    You're coming to Chicago next month. That's the plan. I hope to be there. It's going to be a good time. I've been there the last couple years after COVID, and I was there the year before COVID. So I've been coming every year for the last, like, four years or so. Now, I hope you're driving from Virginia with some sort of recreational vehicle because there's going to be a couple new in-box games that are a little bit rare that may be available. Some magical boxes of games containing a game. Oh, Magic Girl. Which is technically a game, I guess we could call it. Well, I did play Magic Girl last year. I assume you did. I did, too. I waited in line three deep, and I got to play that game. Yeah, with Craig Bobby and Nihito. He was excited beyond belief. Those Canadians, I think they just love magic. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and that art is fire. Like, even today, everything that Yeti has done, yeah, like, I'm still digging that. Like, I don't have any pinball tattoos, but if I was considering something, you could do a lot worse than Magic Girl. Would you get a Magic Girl tattoo? I have done sillier things, sir. Well, see, Zach was going to get somebody to do like a TPN tattoo a couple years ago and give away a free Star Wars topper, and everyone thought he was crazy. And now I think I'd do it because it's going for like three grand or whatever. I got one sitting behind me somewhere. I don't know if you can see it on the cam. A little R2 up there, yeah. Yeah, the last one that I've seen sold was like $3,500, $3,600.
    4:33
    Ooh. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm looking at this thing up here. Mr. Beat Boop, and I'm like, what's it worth it for me to keep this dang thing? Yeah, it's a little too pricey for me, but you're talking about these magic girls. I guess we're seeing that there's going to be two there that are new in box. Are they original ones? Are they the ones that these guys have updated to the new software and new mechanisms that make it almost fully the original game that it was intended to be? I mean, I guess we don't have the details of that yet. That is completely unknown. But correct me if I'm wrong, was it Cointaker that was listing these games like six months or so ago? One was like $45,000, one was $60,000 or something outrageous, and then I didn't hear anything else about it.
    5:18
    So how much would a new in-box one be? I don't know. $50,000? I mean, if it's new in-box, it's not going to have any mods on it, so it's going to be not worth that much, I would think.
    5:28
    I think I'm going to pass on Magic Girl. I hope they have maybe one there to play again. I wouldn't mind playing it for a few more minutes and just seeing the game. Like I said, it's a beautiful game. And I enjoyed playing it. I only played, you know, one game. Who owns the lights of this game now? Or is it just floating out there in the ether?
    5:48
    I have no idea. Can somebody scoop this up and actually make it into, you know, like a compelling modern fully fleshed out pinball machine? I would imagine with all the just the bad vibes from the last few years, it's kind of like Deep Root. I just, I probably know when even wants to touch it. All right. Well, I mean, where drama and all that people losing money. I just think it's, it's, I don't think anybody else wants to make any more. So is it a American pinball that's bringing it?
    6:16
    I think the owner, but not the, really the owner, but one of the main showrunners of, of expo, the guy named Rob Burke. I think he, he owns one or owns a couple of them or something like that. Cause I know some ties back to American pinball with, with David fix. I think he helps run Expo as well. Because I know that playable version was sitting right there at the American Pinball booth. So, you know, and then I'm just segueing here because also appearing at the American Pinball booth will be the cast from the back glass LCD screen of GT, Mother Grabbin' F, Galactic Tank Force. Talking about Clementine. I'm talking about Plotnik. I'm talking about live and in person. Are they going to do meet and greets? Are you going to be able to get a squeeze from Sonya? Or are you going to be there on the other side of the velvet ropes with security guards most likely? Is it going to be a cost to it? Is it going to be free? What's going to, you know, are they going to be selling merchandise? Are they going to be autographing things? Who knows? Are they going to be lines of nerds with GTF back glasses that are 3D? Or did they get the signature lunchboxes that they're bringing in? Oh, yeah, you could bring your Nordman robots and get it signed. I mean, that's like, that's what I would do.
    7:18
    GT to the F. I hope they have like a themed backdrop or something for it. I don't know. So that game, you've played it, I'm assuming. I played GTF once. out on location, and I really did like the lights, the lighting, and the art on it was really good. The game was fine. It wasn't great. It wasn't bad. I enjoyed the time I had, but I played it out on location, and it was a little hard to hear there. So a lot of times, some of the clips, it does have a lot of audio in all those video clips. I think it's something that would probably be enjoyed a little more in a home setting because of all the different full motion video, kind of like 90s retro cheesy video clips like your Sega CD games. Sega CD, yes. And 3DO if you ever had one of those. I used to go to the electronics store. I couldn't afford a $700 3DO back in the day, but I used to play that and the CDI. And, yeah, they're barely games, but, you know, amazing tech. Mad Dog McCree, right? Yeah, I had that. Yeah, I actually had a 3DO. I saved up my money and sold things at the flea market and just saved and saved and saved and mowed grass and, you know, did whatever I could to make the money. I bought a 3DO. That's probably like 1995 or something or 94, 95. And, you know, it was right when CD games were coming out. And it was the greatest thing ever. But the thing was nobody else had one. And I found one guy in, like, my town that had one, and we would trade games. Yeah. I mean, what, did you have Gex? Gex was on the 3DO, right? Yeah, I mean, I had the Samurai Showdown or whatever the one you had. Oh, yeah, that's right. Okay. And, gosh, Way of the Warrior was kind of like a Mortal Kombat kind of clone. And they had a bunch of games that were really unique for it, like Road Rash and Need for Speed. A lot of those games kind of came out on that 3DO first before they came anywhere else. I know this is not pinball related. But it kind of reminds me of that, you know, GTF, when those games like Shockwave, they had a lot of full motion video clips and a little cheesy, like Sewer Shark on the Sega CD. Do you remember that? I do. I was there when that came out. Oh, yeah. But I like what they did. I kind of like the concept. I know a lot of people have been pretty hard on them, but I guess it was designed to be cheesy.
    9:37
    Like, that's good. I just, you know, the marketing was fumbled, I feel like, because it took until Franchi was on Albert's podcast before I even understood what the backstory of the game was. You know, and that should have been the first thing coming out. And I've had – I think, too, if you can have it in front of people and the cast will be there and they can explain the game really well and you can see all that, I guarantee you they'll make a few more fans and get some more sales for it. Because that's going to – just seeing it, understanding what's going on, I think that will be a good thing for them. Yeah, I've been fortunate enough. I've played it in about three different locations now, and I definitely have a love-hate relationship with this game. I've talked about it before. when I step up to it, I love it. I love the thumping sound. I love the lights. The layout's interesting. There's ramps everywhere. I love that. There's magnets. And then I start playing, and then either the game is, you know, unlevel or, you know, needs tightened up and balls are jumping off the wire forms, you know, or it's playing perfectly and I'm having a good time. So, you know, there's been times where I walk up to it and I'm like, why am I not getting this game? It's got everything I need, everything I like in it. It's an original theme. It's not just some IP that's being rehashed. There's a lot put into it. And then I get to some cringy full motion videos, and then the balls are jumping over the plastics. I'm like, forget it. I hate this game. This game's garbage. Take this truck, tank treads, and drive it off a cliff. Yeah, I think it's a good game to maybe play on location, especially to, you know, it might not be something that you want to own, but I think it's something that everybody should at least play. It's fun. Yeah.
    11:11
    It's cheesy. It's weird. Just go have fun. Don't worry about it. Just have fun. I think the people that have it at home and have it set up properly and it's working good, they're really enjoying it. And so, yeah, I'd say, you know, for me, I think I'm going to play it on location, but I don't disparage anybody that has it in their home unless they paid $17,000 for the signature edition for some reason. No, no, no. Just for the thermos. That seemed like a cash grab just for a few items. I don't think they sold too many of those. I would call it strong-armed robbery, and the only thing it came with was, you know, that 3D back glass and a thermos and a handful of banners and some posters and things. That was very strange. That was a strange idea. Yeah, but I think, like I said, maybe as more people can see it and get their hands on one, I think it'll be a good experience for them to have it at Expo. That'll be nice. Now, whether they have another new game or not or release something, I know they've been talking about that. They talked about how they have four or five games in development. They got games from Barry Osler. They got games from Dennis Norman.
    12:10
    Food truck. They got a couple other guys there making games. They've got the Ryan McQuaid That did Sonic I mean what kind of game is he going to have soon I mean who knows Maybe they'll have a game at Expo I mean you know Food Truck sounds like rolling garbage But then there was a truck stop game And it was enjoyable So if this is a game about taxis that's fun Right There's a diner game Oh take all of my money And give me those beaver nuggets right now Can you imagine It's going to have the dancing beaver topper that they had on that game teed off, and it's going to be Bucky's beaver up there on top. Oh, man, if I give you a Bucky's game, I'm getting that. Can you imagine all the gas pumps? There could be stand-up targets that you're hitting. You collect beaver nuggets as currency and then unlock beef jerky. American pinball, are you listening? Give the people what they want, please.
    13:07
    I don't think that's going to happen. Stranger things have happened. Oh, stranger things. Oh, Stranger Things. Would Stranger Things hopefully are happening? Maybe. There may be some Stranger Things coming soon. I'm just saying, little birdies are tweeting, man. And I ain't talking about that X. But we'll have to wait and wait. Yeah, but you're talking about Expo. I think there's going to be a lot of really, really good stuff there at Expo. One of the other things I think a lot of people are looking forward to is they're going to have that Stern Factory tour. Yeah. So you can go to the new factory. And what do you think about that? So that, you know, I didn't have a terrible interest in that, you know, Dusty Factory, Wake Up Early or whatever. But I would love to see this new production facility. And so and now that we're out of COVID, it's not going to be a virtual tour again. So, yeah, that would be interesting. I need to buy my ticket and finagle and schedule what actually time it's there and try to get my butt out of bed to get to it because I believe it's an early morning run. I think it's like October 19th. And I think it's in the morning, maybe nine or 10 or so. Maybe they have a couple different tours throughout the morning, and that's on October 19th I had seen. And also I saw that on October 19th they're going to have a showing of the movie Pinball, The Man Who Saved the Game with Roger Sharp. What a fantastic film that is, like just legitimately just going by film itself. I had heard about it, and I'm thinking, okay, this is going to be some kind of one-off pinball movie. I'll get to it eventually. But then I saw it, and I'm like, this is awesome. I came home and showed my wife. She loved it. it's funny loser kids just did an interview with the uh the the directors or producers of that movie um and yeah i actually thought that was roger sharp playing himself there too like i was completely convinced oh no they de-aged them like harrison ford and then new indiana jones yeah uh but yeah they're gonna have that and like i said i i thought that would be really good last year but i guess there was a lot of maybe rights and different things because it was just out so they really didn't have permission i guess to show it publicly it hadn't been streaming or anything yet, but this year they're going to actually have it at Expo. I guess it'll be one of those show halls, but they're going to have the movie, and they're going to have a Q&A with Roger Sharp right after the movie. So you can go watch the movie with the man who saved the game. I mean, I'm excited to go and get Clementine to sign something, but if I can go get something like Roger Sharp FaceTime, I'm there, man. Well, Roger Sharp, actually, he's a really nice guy. I've met him a couple times at the shows, just real quick. actually it was Dave Brennan and Ryan Kuiper they used to do like TurboGrafx7 I guess he still does TurboGrafx7 over on Buffalo Pinball and he brought his Cyclops game the old Roger Sharp game plan named the company Cyclops have you ever played that I don't think so but I'm going to go fire it up on the version streaming Cyclops there at Expo and then here comes Roger Sharp That was his game And we played Cyclops with Roger Sharp Talk about a pinball moment, right? That was fun.
    16:18
    And he would say, oh, yeah, dang it, your Cyclops looks better than the one I have at my house. That's fantastic. It has it in such great shape. And I don't know the exact number of how many they made, but it wasn't a lot. and a lot of them I guess maybe hadn't survived a lot of the old operators would have a game and they'd make their money off of it and when it started needing repairs and they didn't have the parts for them or something then they went in the trash and stuff got thrown away dang yeah so it got thrown off the side of a building I saw that alright well I'm going to fire up the VP here when we're done and I'm going to play a couple games on it and speaking of VP it looks like virtual pinball is going to be more represented at Expo this year from what I've been hearing from the guys from, is it AtGames or K1UP that's going to be there? I think there's going to be some virtual pinball guys there. Now, I haven't got into it as much as you have with your actual whole cabinet, and I guess is it maybe like Zen Studios? Are they going to be there too? Yeah, yeah, I've heard some rumblings. I'm not sure. I didn't get any of it confirmed yet, but, you know, people will say what they want and dismiss. But I will say that virtual pinball, good for the hobby. When I started getting kind of reinterested into the depth and breadth of this hobby, it was playing pinball arcade on my PlayStation 3. You know, that's where I played. you know, Tales of the Arabian Nights. That was the free game that came with it when you downloaded it. And then you could pay $5 and get other tables or $20 and get a pack or something. But I was able to play through Medieval Madness, right? And I got good at the virtual version of it just playing on my TV. And then that took me to a free-play arcade in Conchahok in Pennsylvania near Philadelphia where they had a real one. And I walked up to this game, like, thinking, dude, I've mastered this thing on my PlayStation 3. I got this. And then came to grips with reality of, like, physics and games that are, you know, but you have to learn that individual game just because of how it's leveled and where the shots are. I had my butt handed to me, sir. Yeah, but I think it's a great introduction or entry into pinball because they're expensive. Not everybody can afford a $5,000 to $10,000, $15,000 game. But most everybody has a PlayStation or they have their phone. They have an iPad or whatever they've got, tablet. So get a game. You can get free games. I know I've got it on my Xbox. I've got Fishtails and a couple other games on there that were free, and I play it every now and then. And sure, it doesn't compare to the real thing, but it's fun just to play for five minutes. Yeah, I will say the graphics, the sound, the rules are identical.
    18:44
    Of course, playing the real machine is always going to be better, but to have 1,000 games on a device in your living room, whether it's virtually on a television or replicated in a cabinet, I think that's a good thing. That's the only place I've played Big Bang Bar. you know i've got to sit over there in the corner i can fire it up there's a lot of games that you know like you said that are fairly rare you're not going to see them very often or you know you're not going to drive or go somewhere 10 hours away just to play one game oh and have you driven 10 hours and showed up and that game's down true yeah there's a place that was um i say near me but it's about i guess it's about four or five hours away down in outer banks north carolina and there's a place called flippers down there and it's like this gas station and if you drove by you would never even know that they had pinball machines in there and back in the back they just have a big bang bar just sitting there and the owner just said oh just go turn it on and play it you're like hey let me take that old thing out of here i'll give you four hundred dollars for it i'll load it up but yeah they i don't know how many they have now but they they have 80 90 pinball machines and you know every single new game every single new stern or new jersey jack or spookies and, like I said, all kinds of old games. But they're just sitting in there, and there's a Big Bang Bar. Back before Cactus Canyon had remakes, they had Cactus Canyon just sitting there. Oh, it's Cactus Canyon. They're cool playing. Yeah. So staying on Big Bang Bar for a minute, I do want to get to this, make sure we have time to get to it. So I just want to run through the companies at Expo, and especially the ones that are rumored or strongly suspected to potentially have new game releases or new game reveals. And we can start with the Pinball Brothers, right? Because there's been rumblings in a general sense that something new may be coming soon from them. Now that they're building out their Queens, they're going to need something else to put on the line. They just partnered with that huge production facility in Italy, in northern Italy there. So are they going to have something? And if so, is it going to be an original game that they're doing? Or are they going to do one of these remakes we've been hearing about? We've heard so many rumors, I guess, about that they're going to make a remake. But what if they make their own game? Right. Yeah, they very well may. I don't think we don't have anything solid. But I keep hearing, like, remakes are coming, and we've heard Big Bang Bar. We've heard Twilight Zone for like a year now that somebody was doing that. So it had to at least have been true at some point. Whether it is anymore, who knows who's got the license for that. CGC is a little bit cagey as far as future production. I've heard people say that they lost the planetary pinball relationship that they had. and maybe someone else got it. Maybe they still have it. I have no idea.
    21:26
    Yeah, but first off, are they going to have a game or not? Maybe, because I think something will need to be announced soon for them to follow up with Queen. But would it be a remake or would it be real? I don't know.
    21:39
    Well, you know, it's going to be exciting either way. I mean, I'm happy to see any new game. I personally would probably rather prefer them just to have a brand new, original, like, you know, themed game. I would much rather see that like you know they come out I'm just making up die hard or whatever it is I'm just something like that just a new game yeah so I'm not I'm not deep into the lore of pinball brothers but do they have um their own designer design team that they've announced like um you know somebody that's like rumored to be working on a game or are they kind of going after you know games that have been in development and this kind of stalled no one's made it and they're kind of taken over well didn't Dave Sanders who did the punny factory and things like that didn't he do alien and had a lot of help on the queen or maybe that was barry ausler and dave sanders kind of collaborating on that yeah this is beyond my pay grade of understanding to dive into that but i do talk to dave occasionally um yeah so yeah i'll bring that up see what i can data mine from there all right so yeah pinball brothers they'll be there queens will be there and hopefully this time they'll be more in number and also not stuck on just two balls to keep the line moving because i want to actually get a chance to play it well they've had some updates on the code, which I think has gotten a whole lot further, especially since last year. And I actually talked to the coder of the game last year, Joe Schober. He works for American Pinball. And one time I saw that he was going to be working at CGC as well. I don't know if that ever happened, but he's also doing the programming for Queen. He did Alien. Okay. Call him Ferret, if you've seen him. Hopefully we'll see another game with shiny chrome ramps, right? So he's been doing a lot of the coding on Queen, and I have not played one recently because nobody has one out on location anywhere near me. But I heard it was better than it was from six months ago because it added some new modes and some things like that. It's a little bit of polish. Yeah, I definitely want to give it some plays there. I'm a fan of the band. Who else do we got? Mystery Pinball Company. Mystery Pinball. They've been sending out emails. One of them found its way into my inbox. I'm thinking about more stickers than you do, Don. I was at Electric Bat and I saw their stickers just sitting there. I should have copped one. I'm not sure. So what do you think this mystery pinball machine is? Do you think it's some major movie? Is it a TV show? Is it a band? I mean, is it an original IP? I mean, it's been rumored that it's some type of major IP that's going to be really big. I mean, what do you think? It's probably not Road Trip. That's Tilt Bob's game. Beyond that, I have no idea. Honestly, I did look at it. It's an RV, the Robin Williams comedy when they take the RV. I'd rather do they do one of Ice Cube's family comedy cross-country things.
    24:28
    Snakes out there this big? Anaconda, how fun would that be? Yeah, no, it could be. I would like to see more television shows made into games. I feel like that was a thing in the 80s a lot, but then we've kind of gotten away from that. It's been movies, and, damn, we have so many band pins now. Well, Stern tried that, and they did 24, and they had CSI. CSI's a good game. Which were not very big sellers. Okay, I agree with that. CSI, fun game. Didn't they do VIP or barbed wire or something, too, like a Pamela Anderson vehicle? No, that was Scott Lee. I think that was their very last game, and I heard it was probably the reason that they don't make any more games anymore. As great as Pamela is, they should have went with Thunder in Paradise with Terry the Hulk Hogan. Ooh. That would still be sought after now. Right, so Mystery Company. So they've been kind of cagey this whole time, and people were just kind of getting to the point, myself included, like put up or shut up, you know? Come on, like give us like a timeline of when we're going to see something, you know, because you kind of want to work up to a release date, you know, and say, okay, we've got a three-month window, we're going to build hype for three months, and then we're going to release, you know? But like we have no idea timeline-wise, like when something's coming, what's coming. Yeah, I would like to just know, just say, hey, our game is going to be at Expo or something like that. Our game is coming out on December 1st. Just kind of give everybody an idea when it's going to be there. Or like when are we going to hear something next? Because if they go quiet for six months again, everybody is going to forget about them. They're not building any hype. So I think that would be nice to like, you know, we're going to release this thing in stages of information. The next info drop is in, you know, 30 days or something. So at least we know something is coming. Well, I'll tell you, the pictures that they released so far of the underside of the play field, and they showed some cabinets, you know, like on an assembly line. They showed some, you know, testing where they were putting code on there, and you could kind of see reflection of a play field and kind of what was going on. So it looks like they're, you know, having games. They're going to be ready to go. Sometimes they say it's ready to ship. I was impressed. Maybe they're going to have some games already built. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I like the pictures that I saw. They got a fully stocked factory. There's game fields that are being populated. There's cabinets in a building, which is reassuring that once something's revealed, they'll actually be able to be sold too. And it's not going to be, well, give your $2,000 nonrefundable deposit now. And we swear we're making all 100 by the end of the year. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the way you should do it. Now, obviously, they're not going to have 500 games built right off the bat. But if they have 20 games built on day one and say here they are, they're ready for sale, then it's going to help out a whole lot. How cool if this was like a really cool movie license game, like something we've been waiting for, like a Beetlejuice or something?
    27:13
    I'm trying to think. What do you think it could even be? I mean it's so many possibilities. I don't think you could even try to even imagine what they have because it probably – look, it might be – Maybe it's going to be the Taylor Swift pinball machine or something like that. I mean, who knows? Someone's got to put that bug in that girl's ear because, you know, all she has to do is say, I think I would like to have one, and I think it would sell amazingly well because people that just are into Tay would buy it, you know, not just pinball people. I mean, that's like broad-based appeal. I think it would work good on location. If I was operating location, I would have a Taylor Swift machine. I mean, there's tons of new games. I mean, Haggis is making Centaur. I mean, Haggis, make Bluey. Come on. Come on, thank you very much. Yes, let's get us some Bluey, please. The Wiggles. Well, let's not get out of control here. All right. No, but this mystery pinball machine, like I said, it seems promising. It looks like it's got a lot of mechs and maybe three flippers. Maybe it's got upper play field. It's got magnets.
    28:13
    I just got a text to the phone from Mr. Andrew McBain from Pinball Adventures on some cabinet art for the night version of Elements. So here's a game that will be at Expo Like confirmed It's going to be there, it's going to be playable Look at this thing I'm trying to show you through the camera here Yeah so I'm kind of excited for this game I still haven't seen the whole play field yet But I've heard the things he's putting in there Some cool optical effects things He's kind of This guy's got an inventive personality here He eschewed The LCD screen in the back box and just went for a normal, you know, like, back glass trans light. And then he took an LCD screen and put it up as a topper.
    28:57
    Yeah, it looked like it was pretty high up there. Somebody with low ceilings is not going to be happy with that. And so when I talked to him about this, he says the thinking was there's going to be, you know, things up there that other people can watch, you know, while you're playing the game. And most of the time you're not staring at an LCD screen. Now, for information, and hopefully there's call-outs so you know kind of what to do because it's going to be hard to crane your neck up there to see how many more widgets you need to get to unlock the next battle mode or whatever is in the game. But, yeah, this is something that's different, right?
    29:29
    Different is good. Yeah. Yeah, and we were talking earlier before we started recording. Pinball Adventures is a pinball company that is building pinball machines. You can buy one, and they will ship one to you. They're not taking nonrefundable deposits, and then you have no real way of knowing when your game is coming. If you want one, you can get one. Punny Factories in development right now. Since you've talked to him recently, do you know if he's going to bring just one, or will he have a few there to play? Has he given any more details about that? He's not bringing one, so there will be at least two or more. I haven't heard exactly how many he's making, but I believe they're in transit already into the States because they're coming from Canada. So they will be on site, and maybe more than just one site too. So are you going to be bringing the truck and bringing one back home with you? Ha-ha!
    30:17
    If I can get away with it. Oh. You know, we'll have to wait and see. A lot of things are up in the air. But, you know, I mean, I love me some new pinball. I went out and played Punny Factory, did I tell you? Yeah, I saw that. You did the stream out there. Yeah, yeah. So Mad Pinball is touring it around, and they're out in Ohio. And they've been dropping it locations for a few weeks at a time. And I happen to be in the area. So, of course, I'm going to scoot by and play this dang game. I've been wanting to play it forever just to finally experience this game. So they let me set up my streaming equipment in this bar and play it. So, you know, it was fun. I have to say it's not loaded with upper play fields or a lot of ramps and wire forms or mechanisms and things, but it's a strong – the cabinet is fantastic. That birch plywood that they used to make this thing, it was the engraved edition, and so it's like literally carved into the side of the machine of the logo. like it feels good did he go out in the canadian forest and chop that down himself and fabricate that into the cabinet there was a slight scent of maple syrup between the ply layers so so potentially yeah yeah it's a homebrew cabinet um you know but the shots felt good like it didn't feel you know like the type of game like i would make if i made a homebrew or all my shots would be bricks because i have no idea what i'm doing you know like it was designed and engineered well like all the shots were hittable so you know as far as like even just a proof of concept I would call it a success for him. I know Andrew's already happy with the sales that he's got, and so anything on top of this is just a bonus for him. And he's got six games he's planning on making. I believe it's six. And he's going to make them all. Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely got some unique themes coming out. So I think with Sushi Mania and First Class. I can't wait for First Class. I'm so hype on that game. A game about commercial airlines? Yes, please. Thank you. I thought it was X-Men First Class. No, no, no, sir, no Get this Wolverine Adamantanium Claus out of here sir There going to be some kind of airplane mech and it going to bounce up and down and rumble and take off or simulate it or something man I'm irrationally exuberant about this game.
    32:26
    Maybe that'll be at next expo. Yeah. You know, who else might be at next expo is Mike from Home Pin.
    32:32
    Is that this expo or is that the 2024 expo? I don't know. I've heard both. I have no idea. I've also heard that he's making pinball machines for people that don't like pinball machines, which – That doesn't make sense. And coming to a pinball show that's really only pinball people. I don't think anybody's really just walking in off the street up there in Schaumburg and said, oh, pinball show today. I mean I'm going to hit the show floor and I'm going to go right to the big booths and see if there's any major announcements. But I'm going to keep craning my neck out for some home pin booth and see like number one, does he show up? What does he come with? And am I finally going to get to play Thunderbirds?
    33:11
    Well, they had a Thunderbirds – gosh, I think they had a Thunderbirds there at the 2019 Expo, if I'm not mistaken. They had this big side room because it was at a different location in 2019, and they had a big side room that had a lot of games that were, like, for sale.
    33:29
    And they had Thunderbirds there, and they had, like, a bunch of other obscure games, kind of like the Dominoes and Jetsons and things like that too. That's fun. I mean, I have a passion for the absurd, you know. So, like, you know, I'm curious.
    33:43
    And they should have some spinal taps there because that's a game that's supposedly in production now. I would assume if he wants to make money and sell pinball machines that he would bring some. I would assume. But I listen to that. He doesn't like making money, I guess. He doesn't want to sell pinball machines to anybody. He just wants to make them. They're for men and they're man caves, but not the kind that have pinball machines. I don't know. I'm confused. maybe it's that southern hemisphere I don't know Dr. John had a good interview with him on that Aussie pinball podcast and you know the stuff that he was saying I was just kind of scratching my head I'm like why is he building games if he doesn't really want to sell them to Americans which is the dominant market for pinballs yeah and Spinal Tap is a game and it looks interesting $9,000 though seems a bit steep for that, you know, given the competition. And his rumor was he's going to try to come out with I think a sub-$5,000 game with a movie license that nobody likes pinball is going to like. I don't know. I don't know. It's Mad Max. I mean, I would be interested. Well, actually, you know, they did have a game they made a couple years ago that was kind of like a one-off, and they made it for an auto show. It was for the Porsche. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I did hear about that. So we'll have to see there. I've never seen one out to play. I've seen it in pictures. I have no idea. All right. So kind of similar to how Pinball Brothers is, you know, with Queen in production now, but I'm sure they're going to be kind of catching up with their demand soon and need to put something else on the line. I still think Jersey Jack is going to be in a similar position. You know, I don't think they're selling 5,000 Godfather LEs, and I think they may not produce them all in this run. Are you thinking that they may have a new game at Expo? I don't think it's 0% chance I think there is Maybe not a new game there But maybe they may announce something Or announce an announcement To come at a later date I think we're going to leave Expo knowing a bit more About the future of JJP A lot of times if you could just talk to these designers And talk to them while they're on their off time They usually kind of spill the beans a little bit But when they're out and about, that's usually how a lot of this info gets out. I mean, so – Go corner Steve Ritchie in the bathroom at the urinal. I mean, I was planning on doing that anyway, but – What game are you making?
    36:13
    See how well that goes. Give me money. That's what he'll say. It's like a black knight. More coins. More. Okay, Steve. Just tell me what you got. What are you making? Poop. Okay, Steve. All right. Just give those guys their space. They want to walk around the show like a normal person. Just leave them alone. Oh, if there's a benevolent God above, there will be a Steve Ritchie dressed up as Shao Kahn fighting Kerry Hoskins over at the American Pinball booth. Sonya Plage versus Shao Kahn. True, true. At least a shouting match.
    36:46
    Oh, hey, you were at the Louisville show. The guy that was Kato or other characters, he was there. With Daniel Pensina? Is that his name? Did you not see him? I must not have saw him. How did I miss Kato? I was in the elevator with him and I saw him at the show. He's like, hey, man, I saw you in the elevator. Oh, yeah. What the heck, man? Where was I? I was probably at Bucky's. Oh, wait, wait. Was that last year's Louisville show? I'm getting on my knees. Could have been. I know the NBA Jam guy was there, apparently entertaining people in the hotel bar late at night with his little portable Mr. Microphone. He's on fire.
    37:21
    You should have got him to do like an intro for you, you know. Don's podcast is heating up. Dude, I'm like seven episodes in at that point. Like, I didn't even know. He charged like 15, 20 bucks. He'd record videos for you on your phone or whatever. I'll do it now if I see him again. Yeah. Well, actually, he was at one of the Expos. Maybe he'll be there this year. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure he's playing the circuit. So that would be awesome. Yeah. Take his money. All right. There's a lot of good stuff coming to Expo. Yeah. But, you know, honestly, Don, the number one thing. Yeah. Of Pinball Expo. Uh-huh. It's not Pinball Expo. I know where this is going. It's the Pinball Olympics. I am hype about the Pinball Olympics. I am going. I bought my ticket. I bought a bus ticket for some reason because it's at an off-site location. I've heard tale of things that happen at this place, and it's been a mixture of debauchery and homemade ingenuity. You might want to take that bus ride because if you have a few to drink or, you know, there's – I don't know what else is going on there at Expo – I mean at the Olympics, but, yeah, you might want to take the bus back. I've heard tale of a game you play while lying on your back looking into a mirror and there's a Tickle Me Elmo involved in a shaker motor somehow. I don't know. I don't know. There was a Tickle Me Elmo that was very, very interesting for sure. All right. Not one I've seen at the store. I can't wait to see what I can get my hands into. Well, maybe at the adult store, but it wasn't that target. Oh, goodness. Goodness gracious me. All right, well, maybe I'll need to do a live remote if cameras are allowed at this place. Oh, absolutely. You definitely need to do a video or a live. I don't know if they maybe don't want something being shown, but I've seen a lot of videos. You can go on YouTube. Just go on YouTube and search Pinball Olympics, and there's a bunch of YouTube videos of some guys showing off what's going on. So you can definitely see it there. It can be very unique. I'm imagining a cross between a free play arcade and an Eyes Wide Shut party, and I don't know if I'll ever come back.
    39:27
    It's definitely memorable. But no, in all seriousness, I went to the Pinball Olympics the last two years. It was the most fun I had in pinball. And the camaraderie there, the fun, just hanging out with everybody, there's all kinds of people there. it's a great time there's all kinds of very unique and weird and odd ways to play pinball you do it with your friends it's kind of like a just write down the scores and at the end everybody gets medals and and gets all kinds of prizes they've got food there they have like a gigantic taco bar that you can just get whatever you want all the drinks you want all the food you want to eat, all the pinball you want to play for a few hours, it is the most fun I've ever had in pinball. Now, is this always at the same location?
    40:28
    Yeah, it's at Banger J's house. Oh, okay. All right. I'll be sure to look that up on the apps. But yeah, it's a thread on Pinside that they usually put up to about it. You can go search some videos on YouTube, Pinball Olympics. But Scott Denisey is always there. He's helping design games. Like the other year they had TNA on this rotating platform that was spinning around while you're playing. And it's playing, you know, playing music. It was like a club in there while you're playing TNA spinning around. And it was so much fun. And I've never played pinball like that before and never have since then. I'm so excited. I did see a little video of that. And so, yeah, I'm hyped. They have a treadmill challenge where they have a game hooked up to a treadmill every year and you have to run while you're playing. So tickets for this event were $100. They are sold out, but they are transferable. So if somebody can't make it, they will offer up their ticket for sale. So there is still a chance that you could go to this thing, but you've got to keep your ears open and your eyes shut.
    41:35
    How's it go? How did Barry Poppins say it? And if you don't have a shuttle bus ticket, I was looking on there earlier just kind of checking it out. I think they still have some shuttle bus passes. And the thing was the parking over there is a little limited. It's kind of in a neighborhood, like in a typical neighborhood with cul-de-sacs. And the thing was they just don't want everybody coming and tying up the entire neighborhood. You don't want to get your car towed. You don't want to get something like that crazy happen. So get you a ticket, ride the shuttle bus. they'll take you over there in a fully tour bus and it wasn't like a school bus. It was a really nice bus. Perfect. I have one more prediction when it comes to companies. Now that we're on Big Daddy Stern next, there's still this production hole this upside down production hole in November where something is rumored to be taking place. Normally we know months out what Stern is going to be producing so that people can plan and order their Deadpool Pros or whatever is going to be on the line. But when we get to Expo, I think we're going to know what is filling up November because that's going to be the next month, right? So I think they're holding back now, waiting for Venom sales to go. There's really no reason to reveal what their planned production is going to be. But something cool is going to come out of that factory, I think. You mentioned earlier that maybe a Stranger Things rerun. I mean, I've heard rumors of that. This is the first I'm hearing of it. Maybe it can be rerun. Maybe they'll have another limited edition version of something. But it's been only a month or so since Jurassic Park came out. I highly doubt they'd have another one so soon. It wouldn't surprise me. It would be completely out of character for Stern to turn around and say, here's 500 limited editions of another game that's been out of production, and here you go. Come and get them. $13,000 out the door. Oh, plus we put a different powder coating on it. Yeah, I mean, it's rumored. I guess everybody knows that the next game is probably Jaws. I mean, that's what I assume. Everyone's been talking about it. I'm just going to go with it because everyone's saying that. So I don't think they're going to be ready to have Jaws yet this year, I would assume. So I would think that maybe they are going to just have another game that hasn't been run recently, like A Stranger Things, and make some of those because everybody has been clamoring for them, and they didn't really make very many. I did talk to a Stern employee.
    43:55
    Okay. I can't remember if it was Louisville or wherever. But I talked to one of the guys, and not many numbers, but they were just saying that Black Knight was like the lowest seller, and Stranger Things was probably like the next lowest seller. So they just didn't sell very many of them. And when they originally came out, it was right there and right when COVID happened too. I think that just totally killed the game, sales. I remember. I think that just was it. It came out like really, really late December of 2019, and it never really took off because the code just wasn't quite finished right when it came out. And then COVID hits, and everybody didn't want to spend a penny. You wanted to hold on to your money. And then when everybody wanted to spend their money again, they just really weren't making the game anymore. I remember when I went to buy my first game, 2020. I was really getting into pinball, and I was like, I'm going to go out. I'm going to get a machine. Ended up with a Stern Dark Knight. but the guy at the used game store had a new in box Stranger Things and I didn't know anything about it and I'm like I'm into that show I kind of want a brand new game in box that'd be awesome but I don't know if I want to spend that much and it must have been like $7,000 or $8,000 or something I think it was at least a premium it might have been an LE in the box for all I know but yeah I'd hit myself every time I think about that now because that game would have doubled in price by now and not to mention been awesome when I first did see a premium like I didn't know there was a projector in it. I was like, I was completely blown away that they were doing projection mapping, you know, on a pinball machine on the dang spinners, man. Oh yeah. Cause when the game originally came out, um, I wound up buying a used one like immediately once it came out because it was a guy that I got it from that kind of buys games and doesn't keep them very long. He didn't have it, but like a few weeks or something like that. And he was getting an LE. And so I bought his pro for him and I had it out on location. Um, at one of the locations that I do. And I've had it sitting there ever since, and I've had it since like late 2019 sitting right there. It's probably paid for itself like four times by now.
    46:01
    My location doesn't really make a ton of money, but I think it's probably had, I think I only paid like $5,000 for it, and I think it's made about $4,500 or something like that. Oh, really? So I've almost made back like what I paid on it. Okay. I have the game, and if I want to sell it or trade it or something like that, I have it, and it still looks great. I put the UV kit on it. I've got art blades on it. So let me ask you this. I never dug into this. What all is involved in the UV kit? Is it just a strip of LED lights that you plug in, or is it like their hardware? It looks like there's some kind of metal mesh over it. The UV kit came with these light brackets that kind of mounted onto the plastic wire forms, whatever you want to call them. But the UV is coded into the game, so is it just plugging in the ultraviolet purple LED strip into that lighting receptacle on the board, and then it's good to go? It's like it was already meant to be on there initially, that they probably all were going to come with it. But it must have been some kind of cost-cutting measure at the last moment that they just didn't include it. Or maybe there was some kind of delay, and they couldn't get it out in time. and I think that's what made everybody mad too is when it originally came out the UV kit was like $300 and everybody said $300 that's crazy who would pay $300 to add this to your game my sweet summer child it came with the game originally and I guess I see that logic it's true but at the same time I guess maybe for whatever reason licensing they had to get the game out and they just didn't have time to fully get a production model UV kit out. I mean, the game needs them because, you know, that UV ink is in the play field, and it's such a cool experience when that changes over and you see, like, that alternate color come out. But people were talking about, you know, this thing's been out of production, hard to get, rare. But, like, isn't it just LED lights that you can plug into a board that's probably already coated? No, because it's the bracket and everything's are kind of made for it. I mean, I guess somebody could make it, but I think it came with a little board, too. That's what I'm wondering. But it came with a light board and then it came with the light brackets and metal parts that hold it all up So it not something that you could just add onto it All right All right Okay fine Okay So cause I put in led trough lights before and it seems like that would work Anyway, whatever.
    48:32
    Like I said, when it, when it came out, I remember that everyone was just ticked that it was that extra cost and it was $300. And I just remember people are like, I'm not getting this. It's on the principle of, I'm not paying extra for something that should have been on there to begin with. And I think it was already kind of maybe not the most complete code, and I think that just kind of hurt their sales, and it just kind of left a bad taste in people's mouths. And then like I said, now, a couple years later, would you gladly pay $300 for some kind of add-on? Now it would probably be $1,000 for the light kit if they came out with it now. Yeah, I mean we can't give them $500 for expression lights because they're just not making them. I mean they'll sell every one that rolls out of the factory now. Wait until next year when we're paying money for enhanced code updates. Well, going back to the Stranger Things, I know I've been all over the place here, but I was kind of one of those people that was mad and like, well, you know what? It's $300, and I'm not doing it because I think it should have been on there to start, and I'm not paying $300. So I sat there for like another year or whatever it was and didn't get it, and then one day I'm like, you know what? That's stupid. but I could have just bought this light kit for $300 and added it to my game and make it more enjoyable. So luckily at the time, I found one on eBay or whatever from a stern retailer that sells stuff on eBay and paid maybe like $10 more or whatever it was on eBay. But I got a kit, and now you can't find one. I mean, you can still find some stranger things every now and then, but I think most of them probably have the UV kit on there, I would assume. I'm on the hunt for a shooter rod, if anybody knows where to locate one. I've got one. Well, yeah, one that you'll sell me. Sure. What? Okay, we'll talk after the show, sir. All right. What else are we going to get to? Oh, I did want to play a little game here. Whoa. I've got a little blast from your past, sir, that I want to play.
    50:34
    It's easy. We're only playing one round. You're going to listen to the sound clip and then give me your unfiltered response. Oh, no. This is Coz with an update on American Pinball. Michael Grant and Josh Kugler joined Jack Danger streaming Houdini on the Deadflip Twitch channel this past week. There's some updates to the game, and it also introduced an all-new co-op team play mode. It's Coz doing his remote update about American Pinball. I found an old clip of that. Now, was that from Special When Lit, or was that from the pinball show? That was from the pinball show. I kept flipping down until I found one that had a little sound clip of you. Ah. No, see, I started out helping Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb over there at the Special and Lit Pinball Podcast. Great show. Love it. Back in 2019.
    51:20
    And then, like, I guess, I don't know exactly when the TPN was started. Was that right around COVID time as well, too?
    51:32
    Must have been. It was already going by the time I became, you know, awake to it. Somewhere there and getting started in January or February or March, somewhere right before COVID. I kind of think of things, you know, B-seeds before COVID and after COVID. But at the same time, I was helping out with Ken and those guys at Special Unlit, and that's kind of how I went to my first expo. It was like, hey, man, you've been helping us with the podcast. Come up to expo or have a meet and greet. I'm going to have a table and all this stuff. I'll give you a badge. You don't have to pay for your ticket here. And it was great. I just hung out with them all week. It was so much fun. And then, like I said, I did that. I don't know how many episodes. I just kind of helped them slightly and gave them little 30, 45-second clips on American Pinball. Well, and then Ken had messaged us one day because we had some correspondence. I guess at the time I'd have to even – gosh. I guess we had Craig Bobby. I can't even remember who we had because it's – my mind can't think back three, four years. But all our correspondents, you know, Ken said, hey, we're going to go and we're starting the pinball network. We're going to merge with Zach and Greg Bone. And we were going to have Jason Fowler, who did the slap save. Have you ever heard the slap save? I have before. Yeah, yeah. I've heard of it, but I haven't listened to them extensively. They were kind of planning out that we were going to have, you know, kind of start with TPN. And they still wanted us to be the correspondent, and we would still keep doing what we're doing. I said, man, that sounds great. Just let us know, and we'll do that. So basically everything just transitioned to where we were helping out on the pinball show with the correspondent sections on that. And they kind of just went in a different direction. They got Craig Bobby just doing basically the news. But it was fun while I did it. I enjoyed doing it. I tried to actually almost be like a reporter, and I would send some emails or message the guys over there at American Pinball, and there wasn't a whole lot going on. Yeah, like when you were doing this – They won't tell you all the details of the new game or something like that. I was wondering, like did you have somebody on the inside that you were getting information from, or were you just like scouring the internet forums? No, not really like through Zach or them or through Ken, but, you know, when I was helping with Special and Lit, I would message the guys at American Pinball on behalf of the, you know, Special and Lit podcast as their correspondent. And I would talk to the guys behind the scenes. I went to the factory over there. And that's when David – Joe Balser was still there. That was before Hot Wheels came out. It was in 2019, and they had their guys over there at the factory. So I got to go to the factory and meet the guys. But, yeah, I would message their PR guy, Dan, and we would just have some correspondence. And every now and then I'd message somebody else there. Like I said, some of the coders. They had Josh Kugler and, like I said, Joe Schober. Later on I would message – when American Pinball kind of had their changeover after David Dix took over, I would message Michael Grant before he went to Stern, and I would message Steve Bowden sometimes and just say, hey, you got any details or anything you want to talk about? So I really did get info from the team there. I didn't want to report rumors, but I would just get info from them, and I really did. I tried to dig and find some info. I think that's kind of what's missing now. I mean, we're kind of blessed with Stern. They do a factory video every Friday and show us what's on the line so we can kind of keep up with what they're doing. They release lists to distributors, and then that filters through so we have an idea of production, what's coming up. But I have no idea what's going on with the inner workings at AP. What's on their line right now? What are their production numbers like? Are they doing runs and fits and starts? It's been talked about kind of before. There's a lot of secrecy with the pinball companies. They don't want to reveal too much. And I guess people have asked, why can't a pinball company be like a video game company or a movie studio that tells you the next five games they're going to have, you know, the next five movies they're going to have out or whatever it is. Sure, sure. But, you know. Why can't Jersey Jack right now say, okay, you know, I'm just making this up. We're making Elton John and we're making Top Gun and we're making The Matrix. And after that, you know, we're making The Goonies. And we're just letting you know the next four games we're going to have. And it's going to be the next four years. Yeah. Now, you know, when you're a Hollywood studio, you've got a lot of, you know, backing and lawyers and everything that are making sure things are actually on timelines. But I get the sense that with pinball companies, the licensing can kind of come down to the last minute on if it's actually going to be officially approved or not. And, you know, releasing too much too soon may push a licensor away. And, you know, maybe if they see some demand building, maybe they want a bigger share of the licensing fees or something. So I get that part of it. But, you know, if they're going to do a run of, like, another run of Legends of Valhalla or something, maybe kind of forecast that a bit so, you know, we can start thinking, okay, you know, I kind of want to move a game. I want something new. You know, and if I want something new in box, it's nice to know that that's coming, you know. Like, if I hear about a run of Deadpool Premiums from Stern or, you know, they just announced a final run of Gardens of the Galaxy Pros, you know, a few months ahead of time, we know that's coming. Now, even I wasn't thinking of that game at all before, and I actually considered, like, do I want to get, like, a brand-new build, new in box? You know, probably all the kinks are worked out coming out of the factory game, you know, for Guardians. So I'm not going to jump on one, but I did think of that, and I kind of think that that's missing from some of these other companies where we just don't know really what's going on in the factory or, you know, what's the plan for the next three months. There's a little mystery there, and whether that's good or bad for the consumer, I mean, I just, I don't know. I like to kind of almost know what's coming just so I can plan it. Right. If that makes sense, just so you kind of know what's out there. Because you could say, well, I want to buy something right now. But if you knew that something maybe you would think is better, you would hold off. I think that's why they keep from releasing too much. Sure, sure. Because they just want you to go ahead and buy what's out right now. They told you that your most favorite thing of all time is coming out next, and maybe you wouldn't buy anything right now. Yeah, yeah, maybe you wouldn't go for the Venom LE right now. You would wait for Jaws, which is rumored to be coming out, you know, or something like that. Yeah, I get that. But just to have a sense on, you know, at least, you know, here's what the next month looks like for us. You know, here's what's going on today. Here's what you can buy from us today. Here's Jerry turning screws here, putting them together. Hi, Jerry. Well, you know, the thing about it, too, is that a lot of the guys that have been making pinball, they've been doing it for years and years, and it's just, I guess, the way it's always been. So that's just the way they do it. And until something comes out and totally changes the way things were, like how Deep Root was going to do, they told you all like 57 games that they had in development, and you see how that went. Not a single one ever came out. They told you everything they weren't going to build right up front. Oh, if you think game three was good, wait until you see game 18. Yeah, yeah.
    58:48
    There's been ways that it's kind of not worked out, and I guess that's why companies just do what they do. It's the way it's been done. Let's not fuck that trend. Yeah, I agree. And you'll hear about all this lovely speculation here on Don's Pinball Podcast with Mr. Kaz. Thanks for coming on here, buddy. Yes, sir. What else do you want to get to here before we close this episode out? Man.
    59:15
    I don't have anything, Don. I'm sorry. We got all the squeeze out of that juice. Thanks for coming on the co-host. We're up to a full hour. I'm just enjoying pinball. I don't really have any games at home right at the moment. I've had a bunch of games in and out of the house. There's games that I wish I could have back. I would love to have a Deadpool again. I'd love to have maybe like a Lord of the Rings to have at home for a little while. But I've had stuff on location right now. I'm enjoying being a small-time operator. I've got about four or five locations where I've got games. I've got arcade stuff, golden tees, big buck hunters, pinball. I just love doing that. I know you had a Halloween out on location for a little while. How did you like doing that? I did. It was for about four weeks there. It was right up the street at this brew pub we do tournaments at, just as kind of like a little special appearance. It was fun going up there. Of course, one of the drop targets had to just snap off. The first day I had it out there, and I'm like, is this how it's going to be? But it was just, it's time. I went out and put brand new ones in there. It's working fine. People really enjoyed it, so that was fun. But, yeah, I can kind of see how you're always going to be on edge. You're going to text, something's down, slings broken, game's down. You're going to rush out there. My games have been really, really rock solid. I mean, I tell you, I've had mainly Stern Pros, so there are fewer things to go bad. They seem to be super reliable. I've had a few Sam games, and I've had some Spike 1s and some Spike 2s. but all of my Stern stuff has been rock solid. It's been great. And I even saw that Greg Bone from over there straight down the middle, he just started having some games on location too. And the thing was, the place he had his games at is like Rubbin' Butts. Rubbin' Butts Barbecue.
    61:02
    That's Greg. It's officially on my list. I want to go check this place out, man. Yeah, I really enjoy doing games on location. And really, my dream, if you just want to ask me an honest question, I would love to just have a location that has more like a mini family entertainment center. I don't want to have a gigantic place that has 200 games, but I want to have a small venue that's more for kids and families, just that kids can come have fun, arcade games, some pinball. A room with a big TV for sports, some food, decent pizza. I got a buddy of mine that he lives about 30 minutes away from me. It's in Martinsville, Virginia. If anybody ever is just coming through Virginia, he's got a place called Uptown Pinball. And he's got a – I don't know. He's probably got like 150 games, pinball, arcade, everything. He's got all the new Raw Thrill stuff. If you ever played like King Kong, the VR games and all those kind of things. But you pay like $15 to get in. You can stay all day. You can play everything. It's all on free play. That's fun. And he does really well, and he's not in a big city, but it does really well. It's a place that kids go. It's packed. Everyone's just having fun. And that's really what I want to do is just make a place that people can come play games and just have fun. I enjoy it. I like to see the kids smile and laughing and just having fun. That's really what it's all about because pinball is really just all about the people. It's people having fun. It is still pinball after all. Right. Well, yeah, and that's like me. I bought a Toy Story LE. I actually – you're talking about Guardians. I had a Guardians, and I traded my Guardians plus a little bit of cash for that Toy Story. And I was going to go put it out on location, and then I had it at home, and I was having fun with it, and my kids were having fun with it. Then I went up selling it to my buddy up there because I knew that more people would go enjoy it up there. So he had it out, and people were loving it. all the kids coming in, they would love playing it. And like I said, he had it on free play. So they just come up and hit start button. And, you know, the bad thing about that, though, sometimes his kids will just come up and play one ball because they don't know. Oh, sure. They don't know the rules to it. Free play, yeah, yeah. But it's just – it's there, and they see it. And I just love that, you know, we've got so many companies now making all these different games. And I can't say I love every single game, but I pretty much will play almost anything. I'll try to support them soon alright man pinball it's fun let's do it well thanks man thanks for joining us here I'd love to have you come on and dive deeper into the operation side of things I have a ton of questions alright uh oh sure I'll come back another day if you want if anybody actually likes listening to my voice I thought I had a good voice for like silent films a face for radio that's Brian Cosner Thank you so much for joining us here on this episode, number 72, Don's Pinball Podcast. Email us at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. Follow us on the Facebook page, man. We're always having fun out there. If you're feeling froggy, hop on over to the Patreon. Five bucks a month and I send you free stickers. Who could want nothing more than that? Plus, I drop random stuff throughout the week. So, buddy, everybody.
    64:29
    Later.