Pinball Mod Talk Episode 17 - What Materials We Use in Our Mods

In Before the Lock Live Streams·video·1h 17m·analyzed·Aug 13, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Mod creators detail materials, manufacturing processes, and showcase Godzilla topper upgrades and Alice impressions.

Summary

Rob from Electric Playground and Davey from Stumblor Mods discuss pinball modification materials and techniques in their 17th episode. They showcase Electric Playground's Conqueror upgrade for Godzilla (with black and white console variant shipping this month), discuss 3D printing vs. resin printing tradeoffs, briefly review Dutch Pinball's Alice game, and begin discussing LED modification techniques for pop bumpers.

Key Claims

Electric Playground's Conqueror upgrade for Godzilla is shipping first units this month with black and white console variants
high confidence · Rob, Electric Playground founder, stated directly during product demo
Alice features Lior sculpts throughout the game and a standard topper on all 500 units that Davey found exceptional
high confidence · Davey received private walkthrough from Melvin (Dutch Pinball designer); confirmed Zombie Yeti did backglass sketch work
Stainless steel shell for Tokyo Neon would cost approximately $300 per section ($900 per topper) making it prohibitively expensive
high confidence · Davey cited costing analysis for alternative material approach
Bamboo Labs X1C 3D printers are producing quality high enough to minimize stigma around 3D printing in the mod community
medium confidence · Rob and Davey both noted printer improvements and quality improvements over time
Alice backglass art is not overtly sexual and fits within home collection comfort levels
medium confidence · Davey's personal assessment after private walkthrough; noted Zombie Yeti did sketch work, different artist extrapolated to rest of cabinet
Godzilla black and white edition makes lit shots stand out more than color version due to reduced playfield color palette
high confidence · Rob observed while demoing black and white Godzilla in person
Resin printers (like $800 machines) can be left set up for weeks to reduce chemical handling hazard concerns
medium confidence · Rob shared tip based on experience; Davey noted initial hesitation due to toxicity concerns
Alice paint work and stone sculptor details exceed quality level of Stern games according to community thread reactions
medium confidence · Davey cited forum comments from thread discussions about Alice photos

Notable Quotes

“I've never seen a Topper like this on a production pinball machine before”
Davey (Stumblor Mods)@ 9:56 — Reaction to Alice topper reveal; establishes Alice topper as industry-leading feature
“It's one of the most pretty games I've ever seen”
Davey paraphrasing Melvin (Dutch Pinball designer)@ 8:01 — Designer praise for Alice's visual quality from first-hand walkthrough
“We really wanted something that kind of let us focus on the screens and making the screens great”
Rob (Electric Playground)@ 28:39 — Design philosophy justifying 3D printing + paint approach over metal shell for Conqueror
“When you do handle material really well and when you have better printers... it's really enabling a much better experience”
Rob (Electric Playground)@ 21:45 — Defense of 3D printing technology against community stigma
“London is an absolute... it's so hot here man, it's like 35 degrees today”
Davey (Stumblor Mods)@ 3:44 — Context for Davey's new workshop location (London, UK)

Entities

Rob WrathpersonDavey PricepersonElectric PlaygroundcompanyStumblor ModscompanyGodzillagame Alicegame Tokyo NeonproductConquerorproduct

Signals

?
product_launch: Electric Playground's Conqueror Godzilla topper upgrade shipping first units this month (timing suggests May 2024 or similar) with black and white console variant; color variant also in development
high · Rob stated 'we are shipping our first units just uh this month uh and throughout the rest of the year' with custom consoles for both variants
?
technology_signal: Bamboo Labs X1C printers achieving production-quality output for pinball mods, reducing community stigma against 3D printing as viable manufacturing method
high · Both Rob and Davey noted quality improvements and Davey stated 'quality level on those is getting so good now... you can just imagine where it's going to be in five years time'
?
design_innovation: Conqueror upgrade features SD card-customizable video effects for LCD screens, allowing users to swap animated GIFs for different in-game events (heat ray, saucer rise, etc.)
high · Rob demonstrated staggered video timing across three screens and explained SD card slot functionality with six default GIFs per screen replaceable by users
?
product_concern: Electric Playground tested multiple material approaches for Conqueror shell (3D printed PLA, resin casting, acetone vapor smoothing) before settling on primer + paint approach, indicating manufacturing complexity
high · Rob showed multiple prototype shells with different finishes including failed acetone vapor attempts and discussed cost/time tradeoffs
$
market_signal: Conqueror topper positioned at $1,500 price point, establishing tier for high-end animated console upgrades

Topics

3D printing vs. resin printing tradeoffs for mod manufacturingprimaryElectric Playground Conqueror Godzilla topper upgrade and shipping timelineprimaryAlice game quality assessment and topper impressionssecondaryMaterial finishing techniques for custom console shells (acetone vapor, airbrushing, mold casting)primaryDavey's new London workshop and environmental conditionssecondaryTokyo Neon stainless steel cost analysis and feasibilitysecondaryLED modification techniques for pop bumperssecondaryMirror vs. art blade preferences in pinball modsmentioned

Sentiment

neutral(0)

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

[Music] you oh oh [Music] welcome everyone to in before the lock episode 17 I'm Rob with the Electric Playground we've got Davey Davey with stumblr Davey we it's been a bit man I don't even remember your name um we uh we're here man we're we're talking pinball mods uh We've uh been about six weeks since you we've seen you guys Davey and I have been super busy but excited to be back uh we are here uh in our shops DAV in his new shop he's going to tell you about that today Dave how you been I'm good man yeah I'm good I'm a little bit sweaty I'm a little bit hot whoa yeah that's how good I am I'm amazing um I don't know what happened uh yeah man I'm good I'm a bit sweaty London is an absolute uh like you know it's so hot here man it's like 35 degrees today I think it's very sweaty I've had to turn my fan off uh in the workshop uh because it was giving too much background noise so if I start dripping uh halfway through the show um yeah it's because I'm dying of uh he you're looking good you're looking alive me white and pale so uh so so yeah you're in your new spot uh working out the heating and air conditioning it sounds like we're going to talk more about that um yeah so guys we're doing a bunch of content today about what we're working on um Davey and I have been releasing things working on things we're back uh better than ever uh Davey did get a chance to uh look a little bit at Alice so we're going to talk about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland briefly not too long um I'm going to show you guys what I've been working on uh on the conquer upgrade for our Godzilla topper going a deep dive on that for the first part of our show uh Davey's got some stuff for Godzilla I think maybe stuff for Elton that he's going to be showing also going to be walking about his uh new uh new workshop um I see Elton there in the back so that's exciting yeah there she oh there it is yeah yeah um and then we're going to be talking about materials so mainly materials for constructing mods um resin uh 3D printed pla uh all sorts of different things um Davey and I are always learning more about this uh we're hoping many of you that are watching know even more about it than us so you can tell us if you guys know anything and then we got some great mods to show off today so uh before we dive in Davey I'm gonna hit you uh with this bad boy mirror blades or art blades oh easy man mirror blades 100% all day but not the black ones those ones are weird man I don't know why anybody the black uh the Black Mirror ones you're not feeling them no man no essentially they're just like you know they just they just I don't know it's like only a slight mirror isn't it I've seen like gold mirrors as well on games before I just don't think any of them really hit really hit like like just the plain mirrors do um you know caveat to that is I wouldn't say there is good on all games as they are on some games um but I would almost say every single game mirrors but I know look I know that's a pretty contentious uh answer because a lot of people well I I might have to disagree I might have to disagree with you on this one I'm thinking about what to do with uh my brand new Godzilla black and white um I've been pretty busy with this bad boy actually not really I I picked it up or had it dropped off the other day uh super excited to have that in hand very proud uh mainly got this because we're doing the black and white topper and you know I wanted to have the new the newest the newest uh bad boy there so to have that is that how you convinced yourself to make the purchas is it that it was more professional to purchase it absolutely the reason I convinced myself and you happy to know you'll be happy to know that I convinced myself for the same thing in the last like seven days because it was the professional thing to do Rob you know and needed to typ videos in the 70s AB well we'll be we'll be talking all about the Godzilla black and Whit we've got some cool new stuff coming through for Alice um a bunch of people shared this image um over the last couple weeks and then today canadel put out some of his uh paid patreon content uh did share uh this which is pretty cool I mean they're definitely seem to be delivering on this like sculpts expectation they set um what uh what uh what have you seen have you seen anything else or is this pretty much it yeah I've seen I've seen a fair bit uh very kindly uh gave me pretty much a full walk walk through um of the game top side at least um so all the sculps all the leor sculpt work and stuff um and you know just straight out of the bat I would say it's just an absolutely gorgeous game I know that reens has sort of been coming out and saying that um you know it's one of the one of the most pretty games he's ever seen and you know I would I would follow that up and and you know and say that you know I would agree um it just it's just really stunningly beautiful colors and uh top side is just packed obviously it's got leor sculpts in it um we can see from that second uh picture that Canada dropped today um if you sort of you know I mean obviously it looks amazing and sort of you know the sculpt in the background with the glang red eyes obviously looks great but actually what I love it's just uh like the ston workor here you know like the broken up Stones those probably these faces probably not on the production yeah probably not on the production version of the game yeah that's just a prototype thing yeah but um you know those those little uh lanterns on the stick look amazing I think the paintwork on this clock looks really good mean a lot of people on the threads were saying things like you know just based on that picture it just puts the quality level of stone games to shame and I mean it kind of does doesn't it I mean the paint works really beautiful Leo sculpts always deliver in that regard so you know I'm I'm I'm really excited um you know when uh Melvin gave me the walk through the game uh the uh you know the graphics on the LCD uh and the animations are just really nicely done very Whimsical um really tiing nicely to the Alice theme uh it's as we know it's got a Topper um that's standard on all 500 of the games and yeah like you know I was I was kind of like you know Mom was showing me and stuff and I was like yeah this is amazing and the sculp is great you know and I was getting excited and stuff he showed me the topper and I lost my it was it was just i' I've never seen a Topp uh like this on a on a production pinball machine before cool that's yeah I just think it I just think it's really great um and uh Carrie Carrie Hardy I think got some inside looks and he had mentioned like this thing is like the adult adult sexy Alice that we've heard about like what is your take on it since you have seen it like does it go too far to be like comfortable to bring it into your home collection or is it not too bad yeah 100% for sure like it's not it's well which one what do you mean which is it two is it it is it too is it too sexy or is it the right sexy enough no okay that no I don't no I don't think so I mean there's plenty of no I don't think it's overt you know by any stretching imagination um you know I think probably the back glass and what we've seen is as racy as it gets I think that there's uh possibly some other Alice pictures you know as the usual sort of thing down the down the side of the headbox and stuff um that are in of a similar style but obviously the different artist um because zombie Yeti only did the the uh the sketch work for the back class it's a different artist and took that sketch work and extrapolated that across the rest of the Playfield and the cabinet and stuff um having said that it matches in really closely I think most people probably wouldn't even know unless they were told that that it was a different sort of sketch artist who who did both of those things um possibly if Jeremy was here he might disagree with that um because you know obviously an artist probably is more familiar with that kind of thing and if somebody takes your work and does something else with it who knows I don't know you need to ask him I suppose but I think personally it hes really close to the art style of that um pencil work original um yeah I don't I don't I mean I don't get offended easily by that sort of stuff so it's not going to um upset me um but I didn't think the back class was overt either some people did um but yeah certainly man I'll be more than happy to to add up to my collection and will be doing so the speculation continues we're we're hopeful to see that at uh Expo this year it seems like we're head of that direction so y we'll keep an eye on that crossed thing is crossed yeah so um just to hit our hit our agenda again real quick um we're going to kind of be talking about stuff from the Electric Playground around Godzilla we'll also be talking about some stuff from Dave from Godzilla as well as Elton so Dave you cool with me starting off and kind of D yeah man yeah out of the park mod cool all right so we do have our little like mobile camera going on here um I thought it'd be fun to kind of start with showing you guys um the Godzilla black and white let me turn my camera around here one two three all right um so yeah so this thing I mean it's definitely uh a beautiful machine I'm going to turn the light on real quick um the reflection is you know what everyone kind of expects it is um I'm loving the the finish on the trim here I know some people are already getting into painting that but uh looks really great um as I mentioned you know one of the things we were really wanting to do was um see how it looks you know in person with our topper um we've got a bunch of people who are already in on this um one of the things that we're looking into is uh bringing in some red into it as far as the artc so possibly some red on these control panels uh red on the spikes on Godzilla just some really small elements so we're not we're not quite there yet we're also playing around with the lighting a little bit I mean one thing you'll notice with the black and white is even with the back glass uh you've got this kind of sepia uh color scheme to it and then of course on the sides you've got um the silver so I think we're it's going to be pretty tough for us to recreate that sepia exactly but we're going to be playing around with the core light uh one of the things that's really interesting about this is that you'll see it's kind of got a little bit of a pink uh tone um and part of that is because it's actually the light is reflecting off the red wires inside of the topper it's red and black wires so that's been interesting to kind of deal with um one of the things I love the most about this machine is that because the color it doesn't have the color play field when you have a lit shot say like an orange shot or a red shot or you've got the blue lit for the U Mecha Godzilla like it really stands out it doesn't get lost in the Playfield um so I know there's a lot of opinions about you know which one people really want in the end but uh that's definitely one of the nice uh things about this machine so um yeah so you know our topper one of the things that's really nice is there's a lot of color effects that are coming through that's the uh spinner uh this is currently in attract mode um there's red fire flames with destruction jackpots and a lot of different colors that come through that's Rodan 2x multiplier so it isn't purely you know black and white uh but it is uh along those lines so um I'm going to show you guys a little bit with the Conqueror upgrade a couple weeks ago we put out some video on our conqueror upgrade uh we are shipping our first units uh just uh this month uh and throughout the rest of the year um we are going to be doing a a custom console for the black and white as well as a different console for the uh the color version so I'm going to fire this up for you guys here shortly but I want to kind of show you guys where it's coming together um this is the color version um I've got a bunch of different like paint stuff that we're working on to talk to you guys about that but this is the effect that we're going for uh for the black and black and white which is a bit of a a powdered look um I'm going to kick off this light right here and fire this up for you guys all right um so hitting it down low um some of the effects that you can see is that there's these uh these illumination lights here in the front that kind of light up the front of the console and then you've got a light above each of the monitors um so I can kind of give you guys look at that nice and then these control panels are pretty cool there's going to be a little uh a screen little sticker screen that goes on that but um those have been turning out really well um we have been working on the uh the video effects as well so this particular video effect I'm going to show you guys here is for uh heat ray so when the heat ray goes you get these like beams going across uh for those uh this is one of my favorites right here this is a destruction jackpot soy cool man it's great the way it integrates with the background lights as well yeah looks really great I mean you're going to have the same effect on the the black and white version if not more um this screen is something weird is going on with that one um but these are the these are the videos that you're going to get out of the box but of course these can be replaced with your own footage so if switch it up to say uh when the saucer Rises up um this is just a little bit of footage we've got in here right now but of course you can put you know whatever you want on these um so there's basically an SD card slot here on the top uh for each screen and each SD card that you will get with your machine will have basically six different gifts on it and then you can just put that on your computer and swap out the gift with another video uh video clip uh very easily so definitely gives you a lot of options uh for for customizing uh each one see it looks like you've slightly changed the gifts on each of those screens as well so they play at slightly different uh timings and different colors as well by the looks of things is that right yeah that that's the way it works right now we're actually working to make that so that they're all the same timing um okay I kind of like it I'm say yeah I don't know it's it's you know Alex kind of had a similar comment he liked them staggered so as well it kind of makes it a bit more organic that way man I think yeah totally totally so um this will be kind of the look you know obviously when you're looking up at it um I'll show you guys a little bit about what's going on I mean there's quite a bit of um you know programming involved in this but you know we're very close we're going to be shipping out uh the first uh one later this month and there is going to be I think one person in the community has volunteered to kind of be the the code master um so he's going to be kind of helping people with like you know what he's upgrading his topper Graphics wise um so okay and I'll show you guys so this is the this is the black and white one here so it'll have that oh here we go that red effect then a couple other things I've got um these are the the buildings for the black and white these are resin uh printed um so these are turning out really nice this is where the console starts from so this is 3D printed and then there's a primer coat added um and then two coats of basically a base uh silver layer this is before the little screen is put on um and then uh there's a clear coat added um we did kind of play around with this reflective material but just ultimately couldn't get it to be quite as nice as we wanted within the time frame that we allotted for it um we played around with some gray we even kind of played around with like marking it up a little bit to look like it had some destruction But ultimately decided against that um and then these little monitors right here just so you guys kind of know a little bit about how that works um basically they go on after the fact um they are these little shells um where these buttons slide in so we can customize them for you know the black and white uh versus the uh the color version so yeah been lots of little lots of little things that we're kind of working on but uh really really happy with how the finish is turning out um I think that folks are going to really enjoy you know having not only the screens but just like this this nice you know 3D console on top of the machine you've done a good job I reckon of like working out how you know using the different paint layers or whatever how to remove um the print lines they don't they don't they certainly don't look visible in the video so that's good yeah I mean you know we played a lot around a lot with resin uh we actually uh got some advice from some folks in the community and including Chris from CR arcades um we are doing the buildings in resin But ultimately we found that there's other tradeoffs with the resin there's actually other kind of lines that are created um plus just from a cost perspective a Time perspective we found that while there is a lot of negativity around 3D printing in the community because a lot of people don't handle the material really well uh when you do handle material really well whenever you have better printers which they're improving all the time um I do feel like it's really enabling uh a much better experience which you know it's just a matter of the stigma kind of around 3D printing yeah certainly and I think that probably those concerns are going to be rendered meaningless over time as well I mean uh you know you know you're Now using bamboo Labs printers uh that's what I've got home as well the x1c um and you know the quality level on those is getting so good now um particularly with you know when you're using sort of a you know very fine nozzle on them as well totally which I actually haven't even I haven't even like said they come in two different nozzles I think a 0 2 and a 0.6 um and I've just been using the 0.6 I I sort of don't tend to use mine for any production stuff because I generally go to print Farms to get most of my 3D printing done um but you know even even the stuff that I do at home without even tweaking the settings is of such good quality now um that you know you can just imagine where it's going to be in five years time yeah totally I mean I think I'll just kind of give you guys one more look at this it's it's really incredible like how how clean these lines are um you are seeing some of that banding but a lot of that can be addressed um through now now that surface right there that is because of how a 3D print is done so basically what we're doing is we're printing a second object that goes over that um so there are some things like that but I mean arguably like that little embellishment of these bolts is a pretty cool look uh for the object so I think I think it's really about you know what you're trying to achieve and when we're doing these in like generally low volumes compared to say you know what you're doing with some of your mods which is you know obviously a higher volume um we you know we're hand painting these as well so it's like you know just trying to start with something that has the least amount of preps possible yeah yeah exactly um and that's that's using the bamboo Labs x1c is it those are off the p1s which is the okay one with a not as fancy of the shell but it's the same the same thing yeah yeah cool man well that's looking really great I know that um now it's been a long process to get there hasn't it with that with that shell to make it look as clean as possible and to get you know as nice and metal effect as possible um totally yeah and you know when we sort of were talking about the stainless steel shell that I did for the Tokyo neon and you sort of looked into costing that up and became completely untenable to do it in that I think it was about yeah I think it was about $300 per section so it was going to be a $900 per topper investment just for met yeah and so obviously you can you can sort of you know you can you can have the idea that the consumer would be okay to pay for that in in a Tokyo neon sense if it's only like 20 or 30 pound extra um but yeah certainly when it's like 900 you know dollar difference on you know and it wouldn't arguably add anything other than a and you know I look I've gone all czy and you know obviously it would probably uh you know be about 30 kilos worth of Stu steal you have to ship to people as well problem yeah no I you know you you sent me that video of your sign and it you dropped it on the table and it clanked and I was like oh my God I want it and then I I ran it system and it was like that be Happ I'll try and demo that Clank again today because you know nothing demonstrates how metallic something is than clanking it against a table um so you know and that so yeah so yeah I'm sorry I cut you off I was gonna say before before we move on I wanted to kind of show just a little bit about some of the other paths we took um because I think I think it's kind of interesting um we did look into basically uh this different material I can't remember the name of it but it basically you can uh surround it in an acetone vapor and the acetone Vapor melts the material down to potentially a shiny surface a black shiny surface and that's what you need to create Chrome so like if you want to really create Chrome you need to start with black shine and then paint it with chrome and we were hoping that this would kind of create you know naturally this chrome but ultimately at the end of the day like some of the lines got even you know deeper so I think there are some applications where that might work but this certainly certainly wasn't one of them you can kind of see here how it's starting to get a little bit shiny but not not quite all the way um we did um try like airbrushing shadow effects on there ultimately didn't like that this is uh one of the earlier models where we didn't apply the um the like base coat the primer and you kind of see those lines um in some cases you know we kind of wanted to embrace those but you know we we definitely wanted to stay away from that so we're finding ways to eliminate you know some of that um and then that was me um we did we did play around with like creating resin mold so basically starting with the 3D object you basically put all this clay around it and you build this Basin and then you dump the silicone into it and then it creates the mold and then you can pour resin into it but it's just like so many steps of the process and even though at the end of the day this is a $1,500 topper like trust me like it wasn't going to work from a cost perspective to do that um these are some resin uh prints that we did so they're still 3D Prints but they're resin um this is kind of how it comes out of the resin bath so basically there's a pool of resin on the bottom and it kind of pulls that shape up out of the pool uh slowly but you can see here even and and some of this may have to do with like my experience with this device but you see some banding happening as that comes up so I just you know learning about all these kind of different tradeoffs and like trying to find a happy place um also you know at the end of the day like this is going on top of your machine and it's a dark room most likely and you're not going to be able to see all this stuff anyway so we really wanted something that kind of let us focus on the screens and making the screens great and and you know really excited about how that's turning out so do you know how these uh you know how those resin printers work do you know do you know the process of it like how it actually how it actually likes yeah yeah there's a there's a screen are you talking about the screen on the bottom yeah so it's it's it's fascinating actually um let me see if I can get up that image so basically each layer is a Light Panel so at the very beginning where you'll see like this uh frame starting there'll be like a little bit of light that's played on like a LCD screen just like your phone down here at the bottom of the pool and it hardens that layer and then it moves up a tiny bit and hardens the next layer and hardens the next layer and hardens the next layer so basically what you're seeing here is like a light flashing in White on a black screen and like basically turning that resin into a harder material and just doing that over and over and over again and then these supports here are there because like it has to stick to the initial layer uh up here actually goes the other way it starts here and then Works its way down but it takes about eight or 10 hours um it's uh hazardous material not crazy hazardous but kind of tough to deal with and then you break it all away and it does create a really nice object um from a durability perspective which is not an issue for us um there are some advantages there can be some disadvantages too I mean because it can be brittle uh but it's it's a it's a fascinating process and I mean this is a $800 machine so it's not like it's insanely expensive um and uh have you have you played around with one at all yet or uh what's put me off is the the Hazardous nature of them to be honest mate like so I was going to pick one up and put it in my workshop at home um but the the kind of the toxicity of the resin freaked me out and you know I started doing some reading on needing extractor fans and and it just all became a bit too hard so I sort of avoided at that point in time I mean I use resin a lot um in the stuff that I do all of the like the Tokyo neon uh um is it all of the Tokyo neon diffusers and you know all of the all of the LED diffusing that we do uses translucent resin uh to do it so we use resin a lot but it's always uh via print Farms um generally speaking like having a bamboo Labs pla printer just like your your normal sort of you know what everybody knows is a 3D printer um is enough for me to do my prototyping there's only certain situations where um the thing that I'm printing needs uh supports in you know in such a way that is going to make it too difficult uh to use a traditional pla printer and then I then I have to get it printed in resin in order for it to come in um just because you know I think the supports required to print with resin just don't seem to be as I guess invasive as as they are with pla um and pieces always come out like a lot cleaner than than they would do in pla if you printed it the same the same thing that needed like gravity supports um Underneath It Go zoom in on this one if you don't mind for me so the one thing you cannot the one thing that you cannot achieve with a 3D printer is like this level of detail so this is on a resin printer um and like if you look here at you know the Statue of Liberty sorry I mean like this is this is very firm there's obviously no lines back here is where it gets kind of weird so like it it kind of lifted out of the bed yeah like this um but this is where you have to have a resin printer for sure one thing I will say about the chemical thing um is that I was initially turned off because I didn't realize that you can leave the um the resin in the printer over like a month or two so it's like once you've got it set up your the Hazardous kind of goes away because you're not like dealing with like cleaning up B chemicals and all that type of stuff all the time so if you ever do give it a shot kind of keep that in mind that it's like once you get your process down the Hazardous thing is just a matter of the of figuring it out I would say it's not something you want to be too concerned with yeah yeah I mean Paul uh does a lot uh of resin printing for Atomic Godzilla and stuff um and has I think a number of uh resin printeres in his home and I've kind of put the fear of God in him a little bit to sort of move them out of his sort of workspace well definitely C but um I think I think it was just a case of like the kids having the kids around and stuff sort of put a different spin on it I just didn't want to expose them to you know more chemicals I suppose than what they needed to totally yeah so so guys that's my show and tell for the day um happy to answer any questions anybody has uh just a recap for those that are watching that have this on order uh we're going to probably get about five or 10 out this month um and then we'll be working on them throughout uh the coming months uh both black and white in color so excited to hear what you guys think cool that was a very nice show and tell mate thank you for that thank you yeah um should I crack on with my stuff then what you got uh all right what have I got got so uh right let me here I am oh we got we got to hit the comments here we've got a uh got a Rocket City says needs a nicer start button yeah so I've already I've already put those ones in but I did it while you were showing Godzilla nice and then a little bit of love from Travis thanks for joining Travis as well as hot mods thank you all right Davey your turn okay man so uh now before Tokyo DM was even a thing um the lollipops board and stuff that that um is in our LOL UFO now um was created so that we could run uh pop bumper lights um RGB pop bumper lights and this is one of the original ones that we used to make um and you know we sent out a bunch of these to people and you know they originally went into my cre but I run into sort of lots of other games as well um and this is how we're originally making them there's like a like an acrylic uh disc under here um which the LED ring which is here was then hot glued onto that acrylic disc and then that whole piece was in hot glued into um a pop bumper cap um the sort of this Milky color to sort of diffuse a little bit that was like a massive amount of work to do that um you know and and messy too and you'd mess them up and some of them wouldn't adhere properly and stuff it was never a perfect solution for um putting these in so sort of when Tokyo neon took off and I sort of started faking on other mods I sort of put these to bed and didn't sort of open them up um for anybody to order them but I've had loads of requests over the years to sort of revisit them for people who s of want to put them in games um because these pop bu caps are ubiquitous they're on you know all WPC games you know for like 20 or 30 years um and even modern Stone games still use the same sort of format for the pop bumper body just with smaller caps um so I did want to sort of get back into it at some point and look into it so um just before going on holidays I sort of had a couple of hours free so I thought I'd sort of give it a guards had this idea that I was going to um try and recreate that acrylic um bracket but using resin like we just talked about um and have it so that it was all sort of uh push fit rather than having to use hot GL so this is what I came with with just a very simple um ring but perfectly sized so that it fitted into a pop buum cap so um let me just set this up so the wires go through the bottom of it there and then it just the ring then just pushes onto the bracket which G is just a push fit like that the wires get fed back up through so just make sure they're not getting folded too much then down through and then that then just fits into the bottom of a pump up the C fitting properly there we go and then that then just screws down into the pump bumper body so much nicer solution to something that's uh been hanging over with me for ages um and it means now that we'll be able to offer uh p pop bumper caps as part of the Lolly kits that will be um shipping out at some point now we've done a lolly kit for Foo Fighters um which I'll show you guys when I do my walk around uh later uh the Lolly kit for Foo Fighters hasn't been uh released yet we've we've sort of announced it and showed people and people have been jumping on the list for it um and at the same time we've been Fielding uh sort of requests from other customers who sort of want to install these Lolly kits in their games as well um so we're sort of calling it like I know what I'm calling it now the Lolly adventurers kid or something like that but essentially um um asking people who you know want to design a lolly system for their game which might mean a couple of Pop bumper caps it might mean some star poost LEDs um and you know what uh triggers are going to um set those things off um and for any game that we don't currently have a LOL kit for and I'll send it out to them uh and then in return for creating some install documentation um they get a free kit and uh we then have a kit that we can offer customers going now we've done about 10 of these so far um from various people I've sort of TR of been doing it uh try trying to do it um just in the time between other projects um uh which is proving difficult because there's never enough time to do these things um but we're hoping to of get back on the case for that over the next couple of months and and now that sort of these uh pop caps have been uh you know solution for those have being found then you know hopefully I can get back on the case of that and start offering them uh you know for more games in the future um moment that we 10 we'll hopefully announce some of those over the next uh couple of months and then expand the repertoire of games that we support for those as well hey DAV are you able to get any closer to the mic at all or we had one comment sorry man yeah I can move that over just for this bit is that better yeah that's better okay don't want to not hear my sultry voice to yeah all right so um now uh Tokyo neon so this is the original Tokyo neon uh it uses a product called pa2 nylon uh which is a lovely uh 3D printing material um uses I think laser cing to create it so there's no print lines very similar to pla in a lot of you know in most other respects in terms of you know how tough it is and stuff but the beauty of pla is that there's just absolutely zero print Lin so you get really lovely quality um in the in the prints um so this was this is the Tokyo that probably everyone's familiar with the first sort of mod that you know really sort of blew up for us um and then since uh Godzilla 70 is uh just been released beginning a lot of requests to convert uh both the Tokyo neon and the building mods um uh that we've uh We've created for Godzilla uh for the 70th um now this is a we we sort of alluded to this earlier in the show um this is the stainless steel surround uh that I recently got printed up now this is an idea or this is something that I've wanted to um experiment with for for quite a while um and I was originally just going to do it just as a as a project pinball um raffle prize uh for um for Expo I think he does his his Raffles um but uh you know when the 70th got release I thought it would be the perfect sort of solution um for creating just a beautiful metal effect and and the beauty of using metal as well is that it's really close to Mecha Godzilla so it ties in really nicely for that location of the game now I think you can sort of hear it well let me you can hear it banging against my ring now this is I mean this is I mean you look at it it looks like it it could have been you know smelted or or whatever but you know it's it's absolutely beautiful qu I was so pleased with it when it came in um but to the point where you know like pa2 has got a bit of give in it um and a bit of flexibility whereas stainless Steel's got none so things like sort of screw holes um that that were completely fine before were SL out the PCB doesn't quite fit in there just because there's absolutely no give to it so I'm going to have to slightly redesign the PCB um for the stainless steel um but let me just um plug this guy in so you can see what it looks like lit up so are you so are you planning to bring this one to Market with this with this Frame yeah so we've we've already created a list we've already created a list for this it's coming out a bit blue isn't it on the right there um doesn't look that way in person I think it's just the uh the camera but essentially for all of the buildings and including this one too the idea will be that uh we'll um that we'll be utilizing the red as much as possible that um is kind of the uh the color pop on Godzilla 70th um so all of the borders all the neon borders and stuff will be red and then everything else will be sort of white gray and CPAs as sort of you mentioned earlier with your topper rub um and then uh this acrylic is has been changed so it's now um a gray sort of two-tone effect on on the acrylic here uh we might probably still offer multiple variations of this but all in a in a gray theme uh the straight black one as as we had for the earlier Tokio um and then probably just some other sort of designs as well just to sort of uh so let me see if you can see that properly it's not coming through amazingly well on the camera but same effects that Tak neon always had um I think when it comes to sort of those effects you still wanted sort of those indicators to be very visible um but it sort of its resting color will sort of match in closer with the uh the black and white um so yeah that's that one um I've got some pictures of of the uh let me see if I can find it um so these are um sort of mockups that we've designed of what the noodle bar will look like in a black and white um now the the red brick of noodle bar obviously matches in quite nicely with Godzilla 7th but when we sort of did it up without the red brick and just had it as the gray brick um I thought it looked really really good and I'm in two minds as to whether to go with the red brick on this one because I just think it sort of just sort of matches in so well with the theme as it is without the red brick so it' be good to get people's feedback on that and to find out um what they thought um of keeping those bricks just sort of like that dull gray obviously there's going to be a lot more color coming from the other elements uh of the noodle bar as well like from the king king gadora um resin and the and the lighting at the top we'll probably be using sort of Reds and stuff there as well so in some ways I think like leaving off those red bricks uh is a is a good move but it' be good to get people's feedback on that um yeah I like I like the one on the left for sure I mean yeah there is a little bit of there's a little bit of blue in that too but I I think I think it looks great you've also got the sign that's going to have some colored lights up in the top right hand corner so I think it'll have some color up there anyway yeah exactly um and there's usually a uh decal on the left hand side here we'll probably be doing that in black and white too um just because the LEDs will be giving enough color I think and that kind of that does match in Fairly closely I need to actually have a look at the 7th just to see what the the existing signs uh are whether they're colored or not whether it's just the inserts on those signs that are colored um but yeah that'll sort of I think dictate sort of exactly how much color we put in for those decals but lights are the lights are colored they're red and yellow and blue like the actual acrylic print the acrylic is is it the acrylic behind it the graphics on the acrylic yeah yeah and there's a lot of red already and the text that defines each light as well yeah okay um so that's the noodle bar this is the subway as well um so you can see that both of these we originally used quite a gray uh quite a Bluey gray um just because that matched more closely with the color of the existing buildings in the original Godzilla um but that's too blue really for uh SE the Godzilla 70th and obviously I don't have the game yet so you know probably what we'll do is we'll revisit that once I can actually put it in the game and just check to see whe you know how closely it sort of matches in with everything else um but we'll be dropping so Subway has blue acrylic Windows here will be dropping those those will either come in either black or red um we use red acrylic Windows um there and then the water slide decals that are like the graffiti that goes on these sections of the building those all black and white as well so that's that that's that done um now let me just stop sharing um there we go uh where's my um oh yeah this one okay um now Elton John okay so a little while ago well I got Elton couple of probably a month ago or so fantastic game really love it um I think um you know if jjp sort of continue on that train of thought they're going to be a real powerhouse uh producer over the next couple years years I just think it's just a really well put together game very professionally done lots to it very technical um you know in terms of the production quality I think probably some people would say it's not a very technical game uh in that respect but certainly from uh you know sort of a Mod's perspective looking at sort of how they've done certain things is is very very clever um so what I wanted to do was replace this back left sign in Elton um this this is a sign that goes up over the uh left uh sort of I guess curling curling ramp um uh that's at the back left of Elton John U and displays various uh you know modes and things uh you know that are ready in the game um it's a pretty boring sign even though it's actually pretty beautifully made uh when you when you get up close to it it's got these sort of uh resin diffusers for the LEDs that are underneath that look to be custom made I think um and when I originally sort of started talking about this I think I sort of mentioned something on the forums somebody mentioned in passing that jgp games were very difficult to mod and I I didn't know or hadn't heard anything I suppose about that uh previously so I sort of questioned him on it and he sort of didn't remember exactly why that was now I think I've worked out why they've got a reputation for being difficult to mod uh uh and that's because these lamps are addressable so you can see let me show you so I've got three cables going in there's obviously Five Lights here now ordinarily on a Stern game uh or any WPC game or whatever all of these lights would have two cables running to it so that' be 10 cables in total but not if it's an addressable LED situation all these LEDs would be connected to each other and then it just becomes a voltage ground and a data pin uh to control all those five lights now if you're going to intercept these and work out what was going on it's actually well a difficult thing to do I suppose unless you sort of get down and dirty with that protocol um and I was talking to Aaron from Fast about that problem and he sort of gave me quite an easy solution to it and that was to essentially um read that signal and then use these chips now these are the same chips that you'll see in any uh LED strip um any addressable RGB LED strip that pull the signal and turn it into red green and blue channels for for an LED they're called ws2811 um some people might be familiar with the protocol ws2812 which is like the general most common protocol for LEDs and these are the chips that that drive uh all of those LED strips so what you can do is take that signal split it up uh you can see that there's five of these chips here 1 2 3 four five one for each of these LEDs they're all connected to each other in exactly the same way that LEDs would be and then I can take those RGB signals send them to uh the processor and then read them so if uh the first led is on I'll I'll get notified because one of these RGB channels will be turned on um and then be able to interpret that information and then make the mod more interactive so this is this is the stage that I'm up to with it I haven't actually tested it yet it only came the other day I just got back in the holidays so this hopefully is going to turn into a very fancy um new sign for Elton that's going to have some stuff on the back of it um to recreate these LEDs but in a much sort of fancier Tokyo neony type way um so more on that later um I usually don't show things this early on in the piece um but thought I would uh this time just to see if people were got excited about it and whether you got any feedback on it um you know I've never modded a jjp game before I don't know what the appetite is for mods for jjp games so it'll be really interesting to see um you know how that pans out um the other really that's uh just real quick Dave that's is that this uh up here on the top left corner yeah that's right mate y That's sign top left corner cool yeah I think we talked about that before a little bit of an opportunity there yeah yeah definitely yeah I mean Tokyo neon uh you know did really well um yeah I mean look Leo's always um been the jjp mo guy um but he's not really doing direct to Consumer anymore so it means that jjps sort of aren't really getting a lot of U modding love at the moment um I've been talking to a couple of people over about sort of uh plans that they've got for certain areas I won't go into those I don't know to how public they want to have those plans yet but um yeah it'll be interesting to see uh you know how how that progresses I guess particularly you know as jjp sort of you know climbed the ranks in in terms of you know the games that they're producing and stuff cool um so look this is this is the Lolly board um but this is the latest revision of the Lolly board um I've always used a processor here called the esp8266 this is an ESP 32 which probably most people be more familiar with it's the bigger brother of that smaller chip um that bigger chip is more powerful it's got more memory it can do more things and it's going to go into every Lolly board from now on this is Lolly board version three um the latest revision of that Lolli board it's going to enable us to do lots of really cool things like uh running servos uh running servos from Led patterns so that means if you create an LED pattern that you know uh might go like that or something which would typically alter the brightness of an LED strip you can redirect that to a Servo so the servo moves in that kind of way like in a very sort of organic way or a very crazy way or or whatever so um it'll enable us to control servos it'll enable us to uh control uh uh animated gifts on an LED array and a whole bunch of other things all triggerable uh in the same way that Lolly boards have always been triggered um and yeah very excited about this board was created specifically for a couple of mods um that are coming up in the future uh one that I'm doing with Paul jazb for Foo Fighters which we're really excited about and then another uh very exciting project too which we'll hopefully talk about uh over the next couple of months as well but I can't mention yet um let's do a so let's do a quick uh Workshop tour um now my audio might cut out mate during this during this part um just because I couldn't work out how to use my roaming uh microphone so I can either shout or you can just talk about the games I go through oh how about we just do it that way we go last year yeah yeah go for it cool so so uh you've only been here for a little bit right yeah I've only been here for a little bit mate um I think we moveed moved in maybe uh 3 months ago or something along those lines um and uh it's a we you know I sort of created all these these built-in uh cupboard spaces and things um and we've got uh you know all our boxes and bits and pieces here here's where we do the majority of our work uh the computers here boxes obviously the beer fridge very very important um got the TV over there that's running a Pandora Pandora's Box uh so I can play G some goblins and arcade games and things like that um and then you know did a lot of painting and and setting up uh you know lots of shelf space and all that kind of thing um this is going to be tricky to do I think uh without the without the uh microphone but I'm just going to do a quick walk through okay so yeah show us the machines yeah let's do that Fighters Area 51 very nice here's the uh there the Lolli post that I was talking about earlier a lot of comments to getting a lot of comments to leave the the bricks gray just so you know oh good okay good yeah well that's sort of wait what's this one what's this one row War man wow have you seen have you seen rbo War before no I don't know if I've heard of it even oh man so it's an old G Le um and it's it's kind of I guess the inspiration I mean I I've just made this up in my head but for me it's like the inspiration for games like TNA um it's just fast and furious with a great soundtrack nice yeah killer game okay you won't be able to hear me now you're to do the yeah uh Flash Gordon definitely beautiful game looks looks very nice you got lollies on this one no not yet M nothing on this one Knight that's a custom board that I've done to do a better fire effect you got some acrylics on there too it looks like lots of acrylics acryclic oh I like that back glass I haven't seen that one yeah it's an alternative um I'm getting some to a real glass n one for it Sopranos is underrated in my opinion it's absolute crack okay the guy all creature that's a colorful one is that an XL screen yeah wow so so all of these got Excel screens these are the pin DMD XLS is that something I didn't know you could do that on creature very cool on [Music] yeah yeah he did oh he did one for Dracula I didn't realize that yeah yeah Dracula is an amazing game I love it good is just real oh look at this this is the one I didn't know you had are you a fan of that one uh yeah but I don't like his music man what say that again I S like his music ah oh interested um so I only just set it up it's been in the Box for ages um okay uh we we were talking about this today actually just you know amongst a group of friends or whatever and I mean Scooby cops a lot of crap really um a lot of people don't like it um think it's too easy or just doesn't play nicely or whatever but the fact remains that whenever kids come around that's the game they gravitate to and they just love it so kind of my opinion is that even though it might not um appeal to us pinheads who you know probably a bit you know jaded and we've seen it all before I guess um I suppose we just have to think that not all games have to be like epic difficult focused games and you know appealing to kids is like an awesome thing and um so I'll probably yeah for me personally I kind of agree with all those criticisms of it I think the upper Playfield blocks a lot of shots it it know almost feels like popey in that regard I think um is unfortunate um but the fact that you know kids love it so much it'll probably it'll probably Outlast a lot of other games just because of that reason so yeah I'm uh I'm a fan but I think uh you know I think uh I preferred spooky newer games uh like Texas chainsaw and lumins I think are much much better playing games not that I've played them a lot just a couple of games at shows and stuff but yeah I think they're I think they're better games on that well thanks for showing us your collection I was happy to see as many spookies in there and I'm curious about this robo Wars one for sure I'm G to have to have to hunt that one down yeah man um yeah I was surprised go on I was surprised no Diner well yeah Diner's not here it's it's uh aled to someone so that's out on line at the moment gotcha gotcha yeah and there's there's there's obviously you didn't see uh the big Labowski um or jaw uh or Godzilla they're they're back at the house gotcha gotcha all right well let's uh let's let's each show one mod today because we're a little bit uh behind on time are you up for that we are yeah so what are we what are what are we going to do with Ile world we are going to watch the [Music] video okay now we can do it okay go ahead I'm going to show I'm going to show Paul's uh Bond mod but I'll let you show one or two first how's that sound yeah now you can you show your video first yeah and then and then I'll get sorted I don't know something's gone wrong with my main camera so I'm just going to do this all right oh good take your time all right so yeah so uh Jazz bue uh he's done some stuff with Davey I think Davey you worked with him on this one right um yeah I did yeah yeah it's us board yeah so this thing is awesome uh I met Paul at um at tpf I think no x no it was it was tpf uh or XO I can't remember um but uh he sent me this I love it um I had something there I had this gyro copter there that I really liked I was kind of hesitant to get rid of it uh but this thing's awesome I mean this is a very nicely resin uh uh James Bond it matches the one you see behind him as well as the one on the Playfield perfectly uh this thing not only does it look great but it's interactive like when you hit the ramp once it starts the uh the laser or maybe have to hit it twice and you'll see that line kind of approaching his crotch which was from the movie you actually have to hit the ramp a couple times to save him um I did have a little bit of fun with this uh because uh the the mod itself actually ran into my pin Stadium which I've got the the pin Stadium NEOS which are super tight um so I ended up custom making this uh Pink fluorescent base uh which actually allowed it to kind of move away so if anybody out there has this and it's conflicting with their pin stadiums uh let me know I've got a couple other mods in here I did this little like Loop cover so this yellow item is a a cover for the loop I also did this7 which blinks uh whenever um you have a ball save going um and I've been threatening to release that for a while now and then I just recently did this cover for the rocket Loop let's see if I can oh there there's the ball sa so so there's a little bit of a plastic above that switch some people are having issues where the ball is going over that switch so that kind of helps with it but uh I'm still huge huge fan of this game um so definitely a big shout out to uh Paul for sending it my way love it yeah cool man I'm glad you enjoy it we uh we had a couple of you know lot of late nights going over the code for that and making sure that uh cuz you know how how it sort of worked and gamifying sort of those ramp hits was was one of Paul's ideas then I had to I had to work out how to actually implement it in the Lolli code um no the the little the the wires you get with it make you appreciate how much went into it it's it's it was easy to install but it was definitely like a lot more there than one would expect which is kind of is along the lines of what you're talking about with Jersey Jack like you know you don't just plug these things in you've got to build this uh interpreter board effectively to to know what's going on and you know and as we've talked about many many times before um and and it's a problem that you know you guys face as well you know the best way of pulling that data out of the machine and making it in a way that's nice and user friendly and installable and and uninstallable if somebody wants to tear it out later you know that's that's really like you know that's the Crux of sort of you know you know what we do and um and probably you know I feel like I still haven't like completely nailed it um but you know everything's an evolution to get to that to get to that point and and you've also got to worry about code changing your mods did you have an issue with your to recently yeah it was funny actually yeah recently sorry to call you you out on that you're like don't bring that up it's fine uh yeah no somebody posted somebody posted on Facebook or whatever that they that they take on and stopped working after the update but it wasn't really related to the it it was something else but and it wasn't his fault cuz he's a lovely dude and he you know he came out afterwards and posted GL reviews of the way I handle it the rest of it but but when somebody posts something like that Facebook everybody's like oh my God I need to check mine now and so yeah it's kind of like snowballed a bit and then I was kind of managing those comments and managing his stuff and so it was it was fine and he was a lovely dude so it was it was completely okay well most importantly it didn't happen and which would have been probably a bigger nightmare for much much bigger deal I mean I wasn't I wasn't massively concerned about it because there's there's very few things that they could do you know just by virtue of the way that we intercept this data you know there direct sensing you know they'd have to change the voltage of the lamps for it then not to work or something like that um there's possibly other things they could do as well like if you were reliant on timing or something like that they could screw with those things which could muck you up but um you know I think yeah just by virtue of that direct sensing there's very few things I could actually do that could could stop us from doing it um until until you g until you gave them the ideas on how to do it and now yeah they're not listening let's be honest there's no way they're listening not um all right cool let me let me quickly just do a couple end uh I promis John that I'd show uh this which was his new uh Orca uh mod for Jaws he's done a facade for the boat um uh which is uh you know using very high quality materials uh and a nice paint job and he's tried to recreate the uh the iconic scene from Jaws on the back of the Oro with the machete and the bandana and he's trying to make it as movie accurate as possible he said in his own words and uh he's just released that over the last couple of days um so if anybody wants to jump on his list uh head on over to pinside um search for j8 5m um and he's got a bunch of threads he's got a bunch of things for Jaws um the other thing that he's got from Jaws are these uh which is his uh uh Quint reel and orca Spinners um that he's done in conjunction um uh with Precision pinball um John from Precision pinball built uh an improved aluminium spinner for the real uh which um makes the real spin a lot better elin's always said that he did that by Design um I call bollocks on that I just reckon it doesn't spin very well why anybody would not want a spin it to spin as many times as possible yeah so he's so John's fixed that he's created a machined aluminium spinner disc makes the Reel spin a lot more satisfyingly and then John has uh j5m has built these toppers for it to to make it look more like a sort of an authentic fishing reel um so he's done one for the fishing reel area he's also done one for the boat uh which is sort of recreating sort of more of a sort of classic uh boat steering wheel I'm sure they probably called something else in in boating language but I want to call it a steering wheel um yeah and he's been getting a lot of uh interest in these lots of people on the list I think they look really great I think um you know he's done really done really good job of them um so yeah if you're interested in those if you're jaws and also uh in the Precision pinballs uh spinny disc um then make sure you jump onto pinside and and get on the list for those cuz they're great I've experienced it on Avengers and oh man that bad boy spin yeah which is it's a great experience AV the spinner on Avengers with Precision flippers bushing I guess it would be is a it's a pleasure yes yeah yeah so you know spin should spin that's all I got to say on that subject um are you contractually obligat ed to show anything else no those are all my contractually obligated showings tonight I promised I promised John I've been promising him for months that I'd show his his Jaws mods on the show so well done John I'm really pleased you got those out mate and John does amazing stuff he did uh the uh the start button on Bond it's like literally like a eject button that and it starts the game so the shooter rod flips open there's a red button you can hit the red button it's fantastic uh so definitely check his stuff out although you know with him and Paul like they might not even make those things anymore is it does he still make that anymore or do you know uh no he's not so John's not making uh his uh his his Bond shooter um and Paul's not making what I showed just now either so it's like or Lior I think he's down to his last few uh yeah you're right he's not no um no he's not making that anymore either um you know and I think that it's just indicative of I guess Bond in general really I mean it's probably going to be one of those things where you know Bond sort of started like this didn't it and then it kind of went like that and then over the over time it's kind of slowly been creeping back up again you know as code releases have come out and the game's improving a lot and it's becoming a bit of a sort of a hidden gem but I think probably that will have you know that initial sort of bump you know really affected sales numbers and there's just not that many of them around I don't think yeah I I heard a rumor the other day uh from maybe a reliable source I don't know but uh that there's only 250 Bond machines in North America um and that is due to the fact that the initial release of the game went the way that it did and that it's Bond is a more popular theme you know internationally um so yeah so so definitely you know you're building a mod you your primary customer probably a Bond owner or at least a very important customer and if there's only so many of them um you know that's going to you know result in probably especially when you make these things so complex and that's something we think about too is like the more complex you make it the less time you're going to want to make it because reconfiguring your shop to make more and ordering the parts and doing the paint is just like incredibly costly um so yeah it's it's too bad that some of these amazing things go away but it definitely makes sense and look at this Tom's on hey Tom you late man you're about an hour and 15 minutes late we're just about to finish the rewind Tom recovered well you weren't up this week but he's here uh all right Dave you got anything else or we going to call it a call it a show oh no we'll call it man I've got I've got other stuff but um we're running so overtime that I'll decide in for next year well I hope you guys enjoyed this um we want to do more of these where we're giving you you know content about what we're working on we know a lot of you that that are tuning in um are interested in our product so we we'll keep doing this and of course if there are any mod makers out there that you know want to come in on and tell us what they're up to we'd love that too so uh wrap it up 17 uh I'm sure we'll be back in a couple two three weeks uh and Davey I I think maybe more Alice if we're lucky I'm I'm hoping um that we might have some sneaky little Alice peaks I'm not exactly sure what yet but um uh yeah I'm hoping some little exclusives maybe even some images um or some bits of news some features we'll have to wait and see very exciting all right guys signing off till next time have a great night see you guys bye