Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Pinball Oz Wide - Episode 10 Haggis is back on the Menu

Pinball Oz Wide·podcast_episode·33m 4s·analyzed·Nov 4, 2025
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Host warns of Damian Harton's return to business after Haggis Pinball fraud that left customers and distributors out millions.

Summary

Host discusses the resurgence of Damian Harton, founder of failed pinball manufacturer Haggis Pinball, who has launched a new business venture under his name. The episode provides a detailed timeline of Haggis Pinball's collapse (2018-2024), documenting unfulfilled pre-orders for Fathom and Centaur games, liquidation with $2.7M in debt, and alleged defrauding of customers and distributors. The host expresses concern about Harton operating again without consequences and urges the community to warn others.

Key Claims

  • Damian Harton of Haggis Pinball allegedly took pre-order money and ran off with it, with the company going into liquidation while trading while insolvent

    high confidence · Host directly states liquidation documents were published showing trading while insolvent; confirmed by July 31 liquidator notification

  • Haggis Pinball accumulated $2.7 million in total debt with only $120,000 in valued assets

    high confidence · Host reads directly from liquidator's initial notification to creditors document dated July 31

  • At least one US distributor lost approximately $60,000 USD (90,000-100,000 AUD) from Haggis Pinball orders

    high confidence · Host states 'one distributor in the United States lost upwards of 90 Tee'd Off Blackwater 100,000 Australian dollars'

  • Haggis Pinball had 83 non-affiliated individuals as creditors totaling $800,000 in deposits/purchases

    high confidence · Host reads from liquidator creditors list document

  • Haggis Pinball announced Fathom production would start July 1, 2021 at 50 units per month but failed to meet targets

    high confidence · Host references April 26, 2021 announcement and launch interview statements

  • Damian Harton has created a new business venture and posted a website with what appears to be AI-generated content about his manufacturing experience

    high confidence · Host received private message from Matty alerting him; host reviewed website and found suspicious AI-generated language claiming successful export operations

  • Fathom Mermaid Edition pre-orders were marked 'sold out' by May 24, 2021 despite no significant production having occurred

    medium confidence · Host notes the May 24 closure date and website update claiming sold out status, questions production timing

  • Significant staff turnover occurred at Haggis Pinball between 2021-2022 with original team departing

    high confidence · Host cites documented observation that much of original team departed, some let go due to lack of work, others left voluntarily

Notable Quotes

  • “he basically started a pinball company, promised The Games, didn't deliver those The Games, allegedly took money from pre-orders for both Fathom and then another machine called Centaur that he was going to produce. and allegedly then just ran off with it.”

    Host (unnamed) @ ~early in episode — Encapsulates the core accusation against Damian Harton and establishes the episode's central concern

  • “I don't feel like I need to, you know, what's the saying? Piss down someone's back and tell them it's raining. You know, like I think I can tell them it's piss.”

    Host (unnamed) @ ~early in episode — Host justifies his decision to cover the 'dirty side' of pinball rather than present a sanitized version

  • “the liquidator's initial notification to creditors document is published and shared with confirmed creditors at a high level these documents show that Haggis Pinball had 120,000 in valued assets so stock plant machinery and other assets Haggis Pinball had 2.6 million dollars in debts to unsecured creditors”

    Host (unnamed) @ ~mid-episode during timeline — Direct quote of liquidation documents establishing financial scale of the failure

  • “I just think that, you know, maybe we need to get out and spread the word to people and let people know about this guy. And he started another industry, you know.”

    Host (unnamed) @ ~late in episode — Articulates the host's call to action for the pinball community to warn others about Harton's new venture

  • “I can't help but think and it's happened once before. There was a guy on Shaq Attaq that put out a GoFundMe, I think it was and, you know, for a bit of help and we all helped him...I'm sure if Haggis Pinball had to put his hand up and said, guys, look, I'm a bit fucked here. I need some help...I'm sure people would have done it”

    Host (unnamed) @ ~toward end of episode — Host expresses belief that transparency and community appeals might have prevented the collapse; contrasts with Harton's approach

  • “I don't hold any really strong ill will towards the people that are working there because I think at the end of the day, the buck does stop with Haggis Pinball. I think he is fully culpable of what had happened.”

Entities

Damian HartonpersonHaggis PinballcompanyFathom RevisitedgameCentaur RevisitedgameCeltsgameWraithgameTexas Pinball Festivalevent

Signals

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Haggis Pinball liquidated July 2024 after trading while insolvent; $2.7M total debt with only $120K in assets; liquidator appointed July 18, 2024

    high · Host reads liquidator notification document dated July 31 with detailed creditor breakdown and asset valuation

  • ?

    product_concern: Fathom and Centaur games suffered quality and reliability issues including warped playfields, code problems, flipper failures, and automatic shutdowns

    medium · Host mentions customers experiencing 'warped playfields on fathoms and shit code they're trying to develop themselves now' and 'issues with flippers and automatic shutdowns'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Manufacturing fraud and lack of accountability becoming pattern in pinball industry; Harton operating new business without public consequences despite $2.7M fraud

    high · Host's extended discussion of how Harton has 'slinked away' and is now running new business; notes 'there's been no repercussions' and contrasts with community's willingness to help legitimate ventures

  • ?

    community_signal: Community sentiment regarding Haggis Pinball remains raw and divided; some defend Harton, others feel betrayed; discussion still emotionally difficult for affected parties

    high · Host notes 'it's still certainly a raw discussion to have with people' and acknowledges recent conversation where community member's mate was still affected

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Significant staff turnover at Haggis Pinball 2021-2022 with original team departing, some involuntarily, others voluntarily; communication with company became difficult

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.099

0:00
Welcome everyone to episode 10 of the Pinball Loz and White podcast. Originally I was just going to do a brief intro, brief description of the upcoming expo and what me and Maddy were up to with regards to the bump-ins. we're starting on a Thursday with a bump in so we'll be there Thursday morning look to do a little bit of a walk through and show you guys what's going on and then sort of you know get back there on the Friday obviously do a bit more of that sort of stuff hopefully some chats to a few people there a couple of live streams hence why we sort of tested the mics out last night if you noticed so this is Tuesday the 4th we went for a bit of a live stream just to check mic quality and whether or not I could get the Rode 2 mics hooked up to Facebook, which I need to have a bit of a play with.
1:03
And then, yeah, we've got Saturday, we've got Metallica and what we're going to do with all of that. But I actually ended up getting a private message from Matty during the week about what I thought was a little disturbing and something to bring up, which was Damien Harton. he's popped up and reared his head again with a new business venture. It's just something I thought I'd run through quickly just because I think as an Australian pinball hobbyist, we should be concerned that this guy has popped back up and doing business again under his name, Damien Harton.
1:43
Look, for those that don't know who he is, and I'm sure most of my listeners do, I mean, he basically, the crux of it, and I can go through sort of a timeline for those that will be listening for the first time and don't know who Damien is, but, you know, he basically started a pinball company, promised games, didn't deliver those games, allegedly took money from pre-orders for both Fathom and then another machine called Centaur that he was going to produce. and allegedly then just ran off with it. So went into liquidation.

Host (unnamed) @ ~mid-to-late episode — Host differentiates between leadership culpability and employee responsibility

Pinball Expoevent
Mattyperson
Mermaid Editionproduct
Clan Haggis Pinballproduct
Series Ticket Passproduct
Oz Retro Gamerorganization
Pinsideorganization
Planetary Pinball Supplycompany
Gracie Groupcompany
Pinball Hall of Fameorganization
David Hankinperson
Shaq Attaqgame
VCATorganization

high · Host cites documented observation: 'somewhere between 21 and 2022 there was significant staff turnover at Haggis Pinball with much of the original team departing'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Host's podcast shifting to cover 'dirty side of pinball industry' including fraud and accountability issues, departing from purely positive content

    high · Host justifies covering fraud: 'I don't think I'd be doing my job if I was just all smelling roses' and notes this is first time podcast has discussed Haggis Pinball despite history

  • ?

    business_signal: Damian Harton has launched new business venture as 'technology innovator' and business consultant; using professional resume language to mask history

    high · Host received message about new venture; reviewed website with AI-generated biographical content claiming 30 years technology experience and successful manufacturing export operations

  • $

    market_signal: Series Ticket Pass scheme and mid-production feature upgrades (2.0 kit upgrade for Classic Edition) perceived as cash grabs by customers, indicating financial desperation

    medium · Host notes April 2023 announcement of paid 2.0 upgrade for Classic Edition owners 'ringing alarm bells' and being called 'cash grabs' by community, creating 'major strife'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: COVID-19 lockdowns in Victoria (Australia) cited by Harton as cause of production delays, though host (who runs manufacturing) questions whether restrictions actually prevented operations

    medium · Host notes March 2020 COVID hit Victoria hard with heavy lockdowns but states 'I run a manufacturing business. I was able to manufacture still' and questions Harton's actual operational constraints

  • ?

    announcement: Haggis Pinball announced Celts production in November 2019, Fathom Revisited April 26, 2021, and Centaur Revisited July 2023; none met stated timelines

    high · Host provides detailed timeline with specific announcement dates and promised production schedules, none of which materialized

  • ?

    event_signal: Haggis Pinball cancelled planned appearance at Texas Pinball Festival March 1, 2024; Centaur prototype shown March 13 at festival despite cancellation, creating false hope

    high · Host notes cancellation and that unboxing video 'gave people hope which was very, very false and that probably shouldn't have gone on because only a couple of months later liquidator was called'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Australian pinball manufacturing has limited history; Haggis Pinball collapse represents failure to establish independent manufacturing capability after David Hankin era

    medium · Host reflects: 'we would finally have someone in Australia that we could be proud of as a pinball manufacturer, you know, since sort of way back with David Hankin. And it just didn't happen.'

    • 2:24
    Basically, the documents came out he was trading while insolvent, and no one has ever heard or seen of him since. You know, no one's got any of their money back. You know, distributors over in the States have lost money.
    2:40
    You know, one of them was up to, I think, close to 90 or 100,000 Australian dollars, so about 60,000 US by putting faith in this person. So I think it was just important just to get this out as part of the podcast. I know, again, it's a little bit of the dirty side of the industry, and I apologize for that, but I don't think I'd be doing my job if I was just all smelling roses. I think it's still important that for this podcast, I like to remain who I am, and that's pretty open and honest, up front with not just you guys on the podcast, but with my mates as well and with family and friends. You know, I think that's where I am at the moment in my life.
    3:25
    You know, I don't feel like I need to, you know, what's the saying? Piss down someone's back and tell them it's raining. You know, like I think I can tell them it's piss. That's maybe a bad analogy, but I think you get where I'm coming from. So, yeah, Damien has reared his ugly head again. He's just going under Damien Harton.
    3:49
    He is apparently doing some sort of, well, what I'll just read off his website. As a veteran technology leader and innovator, he spent 30 years driving digital transformation across multiple industries, from hands-on technical roles to executive leadership and entrepreneurship. My journey reflects a commitment to leveraging technology to solve complex business challenges and create sustainable growth. So it sounds like he's putting himself out to help businesses grow, remain sustainable, and become very profitable. The thing that I found very interesting about his little blurb, and a lot of people have mentioned it online, It looks like it's just basically AI generated and it's just so bad. One of the things that really grabbed my eye was in his little blurb. It says, most recently as the owner and CTO of a manufacturing company, which I'm going to presume was Haggis Pimble, I've seamlessly integrated modern technology into traditional manufacturing processes, establishing a successful export operation serving markets across Northern USA, Canada, Europe and Australia.
    5:08
    Well, I suppose you can't doubt that. He did export machines over to Northern USA, Canada, Europe and locally here.
    5:18
    I don't know if it was a successful export operation, but he goes on. Our facility managed sustainable production across three distinct product lines while building and leading a multifaceted team across a diverse range of skill sets. This experience demonstrates my ability to not only implement technology solutions, but also to build and manage cross-functional teams that combine technical expertise with manufacturing craftsmanship in an international business context.
    5:54
    So that's part of his little blurb that obviously, you know, people reading that aren't going to necessarily know who he is. We do. And I suppose, you know, I had a bit of a Google. There's no way to leave any sort of negative feedback on him. You know, I know when he had the haggis pimble, a lot of people, myself included, gave a one-star review of his business and wrote a blurb about, you know, what had happened and who he was and to stay away from him. He also had a development company. You know, we did the same with that. So until something comes up in Google, I'm not sure how best to make sure people are aware of what this guy's doing. So I just wanted to go through a bit of a timeline on Haggis. It'll be relatively detailed. I've got this off certainly various sources off the Internet, to be fair. Some of it will be my recollection as well, but some of it's from Pinside. um you know there's os retro gamer as well in here um and just you know youtube interviews and stuff like that so you can certainly you know do your own research and suss it out there's there's plenty out there for it but basically you know around that 2018-19 period is where it all started you know he created um a pin side profile with haggis pinball and then announced a theme which was actually Wraith, which was due on 2019. And I actually remember when I first met him was at the tournament scene. He sort of came into the tournament scene and introduced himself and was all gung-ho and all nice and polite and friendly to everyone and started telling people what he was going to do. Look, probably at the time, I certainly was like, oh yeah, okay, you know, good luck with it sort of thing. I just thought, I don't know how the fuck you're going to do that. Like, it's just, it's so hard in Australia to build, you know, a pinball machine when most of your parts come from overseas. So you've got to bring them over, you've got delays and all that sort of stuff. But, you know, he wanted to get into it. You know coming into 2019 obviously we leading into what was going to be COVID So he certainly shared a lot of information of behind work on YouTube Around March 22, 22nd, there was a Whitewood for Celts that was debuted at the Texas Pinball Festival. And because of the feedback on that, he sort of pivoted away from Wraith and went straight to Celts on the, you know, around about later in March as well. and then it was around October that he finally got to show his first prototype. So, you know, not too bad. Timeframe-wise, obviously got moving and got it all done.
    8:51
    Announced later in November, which, like I said, through Oz Retro Gamer, he was going to have around 250 production units of Celts being made based on the feedback of the Whitewood. you know that same month started taking pre-orders for kelts for the website and it was limited to 200 so they dropped it a little bit more it was somewhere around that time as well that he started offering what was going to be quite a popular and first of many subscription style memberships where he it was a program called clan haggis and basically it was for a yearly fee members would get early info on new releases and the first opportunities to purchase those new releases and any sort of company swag packs with that as well. So then throughout 2020, he keeps, you know, looking to sell and ship and market the Celts release.
    9:50
    You know, that's where he forms his team to work on that game and his next game as well. and unfortunately then that March 2020, that's when COVID hit and it hit Victoria quite hard. I mean, we all remember that. It was pretty heavy lockdowns and that was quite hard for a lot of manufacturers out there.
    10:15
    But then around about November that year, they changed away from that production of Celts into producing classic games. Late 2020, early 2021, one of the guys starts working on a cabinet and a playfield design for Fathom and then basically coming into April 2021, he announces it. So come April 26 around there, announces Fathom, revisited they called it. So Fathom revisited as their next game. Pre-orders were to start basically a couple of days later. In a launch interview, he sort of, Damien noted that, you know, the production would start around July 1st, 2021, at the rate of 50 games per month.
    11:11
    Fathom was going to be, or excuse me, Fathom Revisited was going to be offered as two models. So there was a classic edition, which was going to have the original code, and then a Mermaid Edition with 2.0 code, basically, and other physical enhancements. So they made a separate code for the Mermaid Edition. I believe there was trim and stuff like that was a slight difference as well to that. And then around about the same time, this is where the series ticket passes began to sell for him. So that was basically an early deposit of what was going to be planned five games in the Haggis Classic Series. The cost for that pass was $6,000 Australian dollars. And originally, as per Damien's notes or Damien's interviews that he had, that money was going to be held in escrow until the title, until, excuse me, that was going to be held in escrow until each title started manufacturing.
    12:19
    A little bit later, he basically did an interview discussing the Fathom releases around April, mid to late April. He still says that the Celts orders were to be completed before starting on Fathom and reiterates, so doubles down on the 50 games a month, basically. he does move into a new place sort of start of May down in Kesey somewhere, Keseborough, quite large and then sort of mid-May shares more updates about the Fathom Mermaid orders that they will close on the May 24th so the pre-orders and states that you know Celts are still being built and that will be built before the Fathoms which were due to start on July 1st May 24th, apparently the Fathoms, the Mermaids were noted as sold out by Haggis. I believe that was on their website that they updated that. And then, you know, a little bit of quietness. You know, I mean, they still do kelts work through June. But, you know, come August, September, nothing looks to have been produced in the new factory. and then sort of October, the COVID finally ends. So December, obviously, he gets his shit together, sends out some crappy little Christmas packages and stuff. Now, obviously, you could state that during this period, he couldn't manufacture because of the shutdowns in Victoria.
    13:52
    I know I run a manufacturing business. I was able to manufacture still. I know a lot of people were still able to do what they needed to be done. So I'm not sure I can quite comment on where he stood with his business and where it fell under the laws of being able to operate or not.
    14:12
    But he wasn't able to. So come sort of mid-December, he again sort of talks about Kelts being completed by the end of the month and then Fathom production started in January. and then you see a little bit of a play field which is you know largely completed but it's not flipping it's not in a cabinet it's just sort of sitting on a rotisserie or something like that um so then we move into 2022 i do want to note that just to read word for word here it says somewhere between 21 and 2022 there was significant staff turnover at haggis with much of the original team departing. Some were let go due to lack of work, others left voluntarily. It is often noted in following years that it can be difficult to get in touch with Damien and that the pace of public updates has slowed, which almost comes to a grinding halt to be honest. So yeah, through Jan, Feb, not much is going on. Planetary Pinball Supply do note that they've had a prototype fathoms since around december 2021 um so somehow they've got that december 21 2022 the mermaid editions start making their way overseas so i think a few made it into europe and then we move into 2023 so around april so already mid-year haggis announced that the people who ordered the Fathom Classic can now pay an additional fee to access the 2.0 kit. So that 2.0 kit was originally obviously just as the Mermaid Edition. And I think that's why a lot of people jumped in on the Mermaid Edition because they had a unique selling point for their machine. To me and to a lot of the community out there, this now sort of started ringing alarm bells and was the first of what people would start calling his cash grabs and becoming in a bit of major strife here. You know, a lot of people weren't happy with the fact that they could, that the Classic owners could get the upgrade kit now, and it was quite a disappointment to a lot of them So they were you know people were pretty angry at and and i mean he he then doubled down only a few months later um around about start of july they announced centaur revisitors as their second game in the classic series and the pre-orders were to start you know 10 days after that um you know a couple days later he still states that the fathom is on track to be completed by the end of 2023 and Centaur will begin shipping in January on 24.
    16:59
    So, you know, he's starting now to look like he's released Centaur as a bit of a cash grab because he's panicking, the money's running out, he needs to do something.
    17:13
    We don't hear anything from him for ages until sort of September 2023 where he posts a video update on the haggis pinball youtube um saying that they've hit their targets you know and are on track to wrap fathom production up by the end of the year however come 2024 that sort of takes a real you know spin on its head so rumors obviously start you know going around he was looking for new investors um you know somewhere around 500 000 australian dollars in january mid-January, the series ticket holders start receiving a request for full payment on Centaur deposits with production to start that month. Now, obviously, Fathoms were not even trickling out at a great rate at this stage. So, he's clearly looking to just double down on investments year around the end of january harton super fund is established that's under the damien and georgia harton at a residential address and then february he starts sending updates to customers noting the need for recapitalization and a further slowing of game production so i think i remember this where he He basically said, we've downsized, but we're still doing okay. We're still going to push shit out the door. And that was clearly not happening.
    18:47
    March 1st, he cancels a planned appearance at Texas Pinball Festival. March 13, there's an unboxing of Centaur, which was very surprising at the Texas Pinball Festival. and the live stream of that I think gave people hope which was very, very false and that probably shouldn't have gone on because only a couple of months later that basically Liquidator was called in and approached Haggis Pinball.
    19:22
    They agreed to meet them sort of around June, early June and then come July, you know, it just, shit hit the fan, you know.
    19:33
    Going from the dates that I managed to find, which is mainly through Pinside, you know, there was July 15th that the Haggis factory was being emptied on social media.
    19:46
    There was unconfirmed photos of moving trucks outside the factory, which I remember. And then the factory site was confirmed to be available for lease, where he was, so that was put up for lease. And then all of a sudden, July 17th, the Hager's website, social media go dark, like everything's taken offline. He's ripped everything off. He then signs a notification of resolution winding up the company with 95% or more voting power. July 18th, Liquidator comes in to liquidate company assets. Then by the 31st, and I'll just read this out because this is quite damaging. damaging i think july 31st the liquidator's initial notification to creditors document is published and shared with confirmed creditors at a high level these documents show that haggis pimble had 120 000 in valued assets so stock plant machinery and other assets haggis pimble had 2.6 million dollars in debts to unsecured creditors and this is all in australian dollars guys. Haggis Pinball had $80,000 in debts that are carved out for what may be employee pay or entitlements. Haggis Pinball estimated total debt was around $2.7 million. The creditors list includes 83 non-affiliated individuals for a total of $800,000, which they state presumably these are a mix of people who paid deposits on a game, paid in full for a game or purchased a series ticket pass. The creditors list includes 19 non-affiliated companies for a total of $837,000. The creditors list includes four employees for a total of $37,000. The creditor list includes affiliated entries like Damien and Hartzco for a total of just over $1 million.
    21:39
    So that's sort of the timeline of what happened and how everything went down. You know, the thing that I think that hurt me and the pinball community the most was that the people that were working with him, you know, should have seen the writing on the wall and probably did see the writing on the wall and didn't say anything about it. And I know there's a bit of division. Well, I know, but I would presume there's a bit of a division between, you know, people who have that type of opinion as opposed to people who are like, there's no way that could have happened. There's no way. I just don't see how working so close to someone, you can't see that. That's my opinion. I don't hold any really strong ill will towards the people that are working there because I think at the end of the day, the buck does stop with Damien. I think he is fully culpable of what had happened. As I said, there were documents online and I know one distributor in the United States lost upwards of 90 to 100,000 Australian dollars, so around 60,000 US dollars by, you know, putting money down to place orders for Fathoms and Centaurs based on his promises and his words that he would get this done. And you know what, maybe he thought he could get it done, but at the end of the day, he should have seen what was going on and been more transparent and been more open and honest, especially with the Australian pinball community. You know, I can't help but think and it's happened once before. There was a guy on SA that put out a GoFundMe, I think it was and, you know, for a bit of help and we all helped him and the same happened with, you know, the Pinball Hall of Fame. You know, they were struggling with litigation issues and whatever else was going over there and, you know, he put out a GoFundMe and asked for help and we all, well, I certainly put in money towards those two ventures so I'm sure if Damien had to put his hand up and said, guys, look, I'm a bit fucked here. I need some help. What are your thoughts? Would anyone be willing to help?
    23:46
    I either need a large financial backer or just some help with the GoFundMe. I'm sure people would have done it, but probably his pigheadedness and his stubbornness to run things his way or the highway has probably cost him in the end with the spiral that ended up happening and bringing him down. So, you know, it's certainly for those out there that got stung by this, you know, and I know, you know, we recently spoke to someone whose mate got stung with it and it's still certainly a raw discussion to have with people and I get that. So I do want to be respectful of that as well. As I said, I'm not making light of what happened. I not calling people who went in on this venture you know who purchased pre any type of names or you know expecting them to know better Because sometimes you do You lead with your heart and it is what it is I get that We all do that with current pinball purchases You know we lead with our heart when we see something we like and we love And I'm sure everyone thought Damien at the start of this was going to be successful at what he was doing and that we would finally have someone in Australia that we could be proud of as a pinball manufacturer, you know, since sort of way back with Hankin. And it just didn't happen. And I just think that, you know, maybe we need to get out and speak to people and let people know about this guy. And he started another industry, you know. And while it's only the pinball hobby and who can we speak to, you know, I mean, I just think if you just sort of get the word out initially, you know, and let people know that this dirtbag has arisen again, trying to state how successful he is when, as I said, he allegedly left and left people in the lurch. And I think that's what hurts the most is there's been no repercussions on any of this and that people can just get back up and running and get back into business and move past it you know, when there's a lot of people in this hobby that are hurting. And I just, I feel for them because it's happened to me in the past. You know, personally, you know, I was taken for, you know, close to what ended up being $14,000 or $15,000 with some landscaping works that happened to me. You know, went through VCAT, won the case, won the court case, you know, got an injunction against him and nothing has happened. You know, I'm still down in the hole that amount of money. So, you know, I don't want people to think the reason I'm doing this is, you know, what do you know or what do you know about this situation? You've never been in this situation. I mean, I have to a point, obviously. I don't know how much money people would have put down on this, but I'm sure it would have been around about that. so while I wasn't caught up in the fathom I feel like I'm I can at least have this discussion because it happened to me as well personally and I know how it feels to lose that sort of money and as I said you know this little prick who runs around and I care you know this is Leon from a company called Gracie Group so there's there's his shout out so everyone feel free to leave him negative feedback on his Google page. I certainly did and made it clear. I put up a post on a Home One forum page as well, letting people know. So it hurts. I'm rambling a bit on that. Apologies. I know it hurts, but I do everything I can to get his name out there to let people know what a piece of shit he is and I just feel the same should happen with Damien that we should bandy together and and get his name out and let people know you know this this guy is is walking around scot-free and probably doesn't care about anyone in this hobby anymore you know probably doesn't give two shits about the guys that put money down on centaur or the guys that have you know warped playfields on fathoms and, you know, shit code that they're trying to develop themselves now and, you know, issues with, you know, flippers and, you know, shutdowns and automatic shutdowns and, you know, all that sort of stuff. I'm not saying all of them out there are. I'm sure, you know, there's guys there that have had success with their machines, you know, and I'm sure there's guys that look at that machine and probably, you know, have no regrets. But, you know, there's certainly a lot out there that do and that, you know, are regretting, you know, what had happened and, you know, have obviously been bitten by this. So, yeah, I just, I hope that's okay to get out to you guys. Please, like I said, give me feedback, guys, if these are the sorts of things you want.
    29:06
    You know, as I said at the start of the podcast, I just feel like, you know, there's things that need to be covered sometimes that are the dirtiest side of pinball. Hopefully we don't do it too often, but I still think it was important that, you know, to those out there that we get this out there. People understand what's going on, you know, and hopefully avoid this guy. And hopefully he can just sort of slink down to, you know, working at a Macca's or a 7-Eleven shop or wherever he wants to be. but doing this sort of stuff just irks me a little bit. It really does. It just gets my back up. So I think that's about all I want to say on it.
    29:52
    Like I said, pinballoswide at hotmail.com. If you want to drop us a few notes, leave us some comments.
    29:59
    Feel free to give us some feedback through other socials if you need to as well on your thoughts on all of this. but hopefully everyone understands where I'm coming from that I just felt the need to get it off my chest as well and just discuss what had happened. I know this podcast has not spoken about it prior.
    30:32
    We decided to stay away from it but since Damien decided to pop up again with his new enterprise technology, you know, I just thought it pertinent to bring it up. So hopefully I covered it relatively well. To all of those out there that had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting him and giving him money and not getting a game, you know, I hope you guys are doing okay. I hope this doesn't bring up any bad memories for you and that you're past everything. you're still enjoying the hobby, having fun with the hobby and with people within the hobby. To those that have got their games and that play them, listening to this, I hope they're going okay for you. I hope they're good quality. I hope you don't have any more issues with it and that you enjoy them.
    31:24
    And yeah, otherwise, guys, we'll have a bit of a roundup of the expo in the next couple of weeks as well when we get together. and hopefully put this little blip on the radar of Australian manufacturing behind us and, you know, see what happens with the next iteration of someone who does it. But otherwise, thanks for listening, guys, and we'll probably see you in a few live feeds coming up with the Melbourne Expo. Cheers.
    32:03
    We'll be right back. Thank you. you