Episode 984: "The Pinball Letter of the year is -M-"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·24m 54s·analyzed·Aug 12, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern's 'M' games (Marvel, Metallica remake) signal strategy shift; Jersey Jack rumored working on Matrix or Margaritaville.

Summary

Host Chris (Kaneda) discusses three major pinball announcements centered around the letter 'M': a new Marvel game from Stern/Jack Danger coming this month, a Metallica remake on Spike3 hardware arriving for the holiday season, and unconfirmed rumors of Jersey Jack's next title being either The Matrix or Margaritaville (Jimmy Buffett). He also expresses concerns about Stern's strategy of alienating longtime collectors through remakes and lack of thematic innovation, arguing the industry should pursue new audiences through diverse IP like Barbie, Broadway musicals, and hip-hop rather than recycling arcade classics.

Key Claims

A new Marvel game from Stern designed by Jack Danger is coming out this month (August)
high confidence · Chris (host) directly states Stern is billing August as 'the month of Marvel' and a new Marvel game from Jack Danger is coming in the next couple of weeks
Stern is remaking Metallica on Spike3 hardware with new artwork, animations, concert footage, and updated code for holiday season release
high confidence · Chris states 'I'm here to tell you right now that it's 100 confirmed it's happening' and provides specific details about Spike3, new art, concert footage, and Lyman Sheets code
Godzilla Black & White was supposed to be released as a Limited/Elite Edition game with special cabinet decals and mirror translite
high confidence · Chris cites direct conversation with George Gomez: 'He confirmed for me that Godzilla black and white was supposed to be a limited edition game' with Elite cabinet decals
Jersey Jack is working on The Matrix as Mark Seiden's next game, with Avatar and Muppets as smokescreens
medium confidence · Chris cites 'one of my most trusted sources' and states 'all the talk of Avatar, all the talk of Muppets...is just a smoke screen. This company has the Matrix'
Jersey Jack could be considering Margaritaville (Jimmy Buffett) as a potential game theme
low confidence · Chris cites an unnamed 'very, very internal' industry source who was correct about Elton John rumors; Chris emphasizes uncertainty: 'I don't even know how to like discuss this further'
John Wick underperformed in sales for Stern, making the new Marvel game critically important
medium confidence · Chris states 'John Wick was a sales colossal. The game is a colossal nightmare for them. It didn't sell very well'
Stern is pursuing growth outside its core collector fanbase, potentially alienating longtime supporters
medium confidence · Chris's interpretation from conversation with George Gomez: 'I almost have this attitude of the market I want...are not the people that I have currently' and discussion of Stern hiring marketing firm

Notable Quotes

“The real battleground that's gonna happen this fall into winter is gonna happen and it's gonna happen around one letter and that is the letter M.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~3:30 — Core thesis of episode framing three major announcements around the theme of games starting with 'M'
“You're making moves that are basically turning off the collector to your company and to your brand and stuff like making games that don't innovate.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~6:20 — Summarizes Chris's central criticism to George Gomez about Stern's strategy alienating its base
“If you want to expand who's into pinball and who's into Stern Pinball, you got to do it through the themes. That is going to be the only way you expand your audience.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~9:30 — Core argument about how to grow pinball audience—through diverse IP, not remakes
“The ultimate opportunity you had was to make a Barbie themed pinball machine when Barbie was blowing up in the world.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~10:15 — Specific example of missed market opportunity; suggests Stern lacks strategic thinking on cultural IP
“The Phantom of the Opera has made billions of dollars...if you made a world under glass of the Paris Opera House and had that Andrew Lloyd Webber opera music going, I mean imagine that in Jersey Jack format, you're going to bring in new people.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~11:30 — Vision for non-traditional IP that could attract new demographics
“Margaritaville. Jimmy Buffett Pinball Machine. Now let that just sink in for a moment.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~22:00 — Delivery of rumor about Jersey Jack's potential next game; tone suggests skepticism mixed with acknowledgment of source credibility
“If there's anybody out there who would pick this theme and think it would work, it would be Jack Guarnari, a guy who thought that the Godfather would work, a guy who thought that Toy Story 4 would work.”
Chris (Kaneda) @ ~20:30 — Recognition of Jack Guarnari's willingness to pursue unconventional themes; sets up Margaritaville plausibility within JJP's track record

Entities

Chris (Kaneda)personGeorge Gomezperson Jack Dangerperson Mark SeidenpersonJack GuarnaripersonZombie YetipersonLyman Sheetsperson

Signals

?
announcement: New Marvel pinball game from Stern/Jack Danger officially announced for August release (the month of Marvel); described as critical sales importance after John Wick underperformed
high · Chris: 'The first M is Marvel. And there is going to be a new Marvel game that comes out this month...coming in the next couple of weeks'
?
announcement: Metallica confirmed for Spike3 remake with new art, animations, concert footage, and code; described as 'holiday season' release (fall/winter 2024)
high · Chris: 'I'm here to tell you right now that it's 100 confirmed it's happening...Spike3 Metallica that is most likely going to have all new artwork'
?
machine_intel: Jersey Jack's next game rumored to be The Matrix (Mark Seiden designer) with Avatar/Muppets as smokescreen; alternative rumor of Margaritaville (Jimmy Buffett) based on internal source
medium · Chris cites 'one of my most trusted sources' for Matrix; separately notes 'very, very internal industry' source (who was correct about Elton John) for Margaritaville rumor
?
product_concern: Godzilla Black & White was internally designed as Limited/Elite Edition with special cabinet decals and mirror translite but released as standard edition; Stern decided against manufacturing the premium versions
high · George Gomez confirmed to Chris: 'Godzilla black and white was supposed to be a limited edition game' with 'Batman SLE' graphite cabinet decals and 'mirror translite'
?
business_signal: Stern hired marketing company that convinced leadership expansion beyond core collector base is possible; George Gomez indicated willingness to pursue new demographics even if alienates existing supporters

Topics

Stern's 'M' games (Marvel, Metallica, rumored others)primaryStern's strategy shift away from collector focus toward broader audienceprimaryJersey Jack's next game rumors (Matrix vs. Margaritaville)primaryAlice in Wonderland pre-launch excitement and limited availabilitysecondaryPinball pricing and market sustainability concernsprimaryTheme licensing strategy and opportunities for industry growthsecondaryRemake/remaster strategy impact on secondary market and collector retentionprimaryJohn Wick sales performance and Stern's pressure to succeedsecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.65)— Host expresses frustration with Stern's strategic direction, lack of innovation, high pricing, and trend toward remakes/arcade classics. Concerns about market saturation and alienation of longtime supporters. Some optimism about Alice in Wonderland and acknowledgment of Stern's manufacturing capability, but overall tone is critical and pessimistic about industry trajectory. Skepticism toward Jersey Jack rumors tempered by credibility of sources.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.075

Welcome everybody to Canadian Pinball Podcast. Happy Monday. We are going to drop some heat on this episode. I told you I was going to make you wait a few weeks for the Jersey Jack news. I'm not gonna do that. Everybody should be looking at right now the images of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, the Jabberwock from the Jabberwocky poem. I don't even know what this stuff is, but it looks really, really neat. And the response to that right now is very positive because people just want to see toys that work, characters who like do stuff and like sculpts that look really neat, like little lampposts that twinkle History of entreex crunch,ich, This topic from the Jalis's Adventures in Wonderland, 200 of you can't even have it. So that is why I think it's smart to get the Canadians and the Kanata Club members images of this game and get them excited. And so we saw a first look, looks really cool. I've seen the whole game. I'm going to let them trickle this thing out. So you're going to see this in bits and pieces but super exciting that that game is coming this fall, but that's not where the real battleground is going to happen. The real battleground that's gonna happen this fall into winter is gonna happen and it's gonna happen around one letter and that is the letter M. Yes, M like in marry, M like in marriage, M like in momentum. And we are gonna see what I think are three M's come out in the pinball world starting in August and ending sometime in October November. Now, you know me, I don't like to fill dead air with a bunch of nonsense and talk about my weekend for 30 minutes before we get to the show. So let's just get right to it. The M's happening over at Stern Pinball, you know what they are. The first M is Marvel. And there is going to be a new Marvel game that comes out this month in the month of Marvel which Stern is billing it as and it's gonna happen in the next couple of weeks and you're gonna see a new Marvel game from Jack Danger. It's gonna have most likely Zombie Yeti on art and it's gonna be a really important game for Stern because John Wick was a sales colossal The game is a colossal nightmare for them. It didn't sell very well and now this needs to be a hit. Now look, we've had other Marvel games from Stern and I think for this game to hit and for this game to get people excited, this game needs to be loaded with toys. It just does. It needs to be based on a Marvel theme that really is going to excite people. Now here's my thing people, I'm not going to tell you exactly what it is, but I will tell you. I'm starting to feel a little bit like Stern is out of a little bit of originality with the kinds of games we're going to get. And I spent an hour on Friday talking to George Gomez. And I'm not going to go into the details of our conversation. We had a really great conversation. And it was nice just talking about the market, talking about marketing, talking about his company. And I gave him a lot of really candid advice. I wasn't stern with him, no pun intended. I'm not going to get into the details of the game, but I was very serious about the advice I gave him. And my main advice to George was this. You're making moves that are basically turning off the collector to your company and to your brand and stuff like more Jurassic parks, more Elvira's, more this, more that. And he confirmed for me that Godzilla black and white was supposed to be a limited edition game. The mirror translite inside Stern's walls. He's like, Chris, if you could have seen it in all of its Ellie glory with that. He also had like the cabinet decals that were like Batman SLE, you know, those graphite ones that have depth to them. And so, yeah, we're not going to get it as good as it could have been. But man, they really were going to release another thousand Godzilla Ellie's and they don't really seem to care. 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I almost have this attitude of the market I want and the people I want to attract to Stern pinball aren the people that I have currently And it got me thinking is there a broad enough audience to get into Stern Pinball outside of you and me and all the people that have been supporting this company all these years Are they ready to turn their backs on us And there gonna be like all these new people that get into pinball and apparently Stern hired some marketing company that has basically showed them the possibility of how big this company can grow and the possibility of what they leaving on the table And when you think about it I mean it really a tricky situation for them because think about it on a global scale There's millions and millions and millions of gamers out there in the world. There's millions and millions of millionaires in the world. And on paper, it might seem like an easy thing to attract another thousand or two people to buy a $13,000 item. Because in that millionaire set where they're buying $100,000 cars like it's nothing, Most of this etsy need a 32-doubar goats needs queue not as mark him quite help people pick but sobred in mice is still not the home and h翻 пов sintом the issue and i'd cedis with everything ill category i worked in right now whether it's whiskey wishy or toys or Watches cut cars The problem is this, everyone thinks the only way to grow is to grow outside of your core fanbase and you start making moves that alienate the very people that keep you successful. I mean we saw what happened with a brand like Bud Light, you know when you go too far, it's really hard to go back and rally your base if you push too far. And the thing is this with pinball, and just excuse this tangent, we're going to get back to the titles that start with them. But the thing is this, and this is the thing that George and Seth and everyone over there needs to realize. If you want to expand who's into pinball and who's into Stern Pinball, you got to do it through the themes. That is going to be the only way you expand your audience. And if you keep going Marvel and Dad Rock, you're not going to bring new people into pinball. And I said this to George, the ultimate opportunity you had was to make a Barbie themed pinball machine when Barbie was blowing up in the world. Like Barbie was the thing. And think about it, if you want to get more women and more parents in the pinball, then put a damn Barbie pinball machine inside Ken's dream house and be a part of that cultural movie and then all of a sudden you've introduced a new set of people to pinball. And think about What about this hobby? Have we ever had a hip-hop or rap pinball machine? Have we ever had a pop music pinball machine? Have we ever had a pinball machine based on a Broadway musical that millions of people love? I mean think about it. I've always said this. The Phantom of the Opera has made billions of dollars, right? Hundreds of millions of people have probably seen this musical over the last like 30, 40 years. And finally... Because if you made a world under glass of the Paris Opera House and had that Andrew Lloyd Webber rock opera music going, I mean imagine that in Jersey Jack format, you're going to bring in new people. You know, you're not going to bring in anybody new with John Wick, with Wo Nelly Big Juicy Melons. You're not going to bring in new people with Led Zeppelin. You're not going to bring in new people with Foo Fighters. And so I came out of that conversation with George. I really did have a little bit of a shoulder shrug moment that these companies really don't have a strategy. They really don't have a plan on how to expand. In fact, the plan they currently have on the table, I think is going to alienate all the old buyers that believed in this company that made these companies successful because they invested in their products, believing that the companies wouldn't Alright everybody again on the par with Johnny Peneumotzdem he and a pas like the rumble i guess f 근� atleast a little bit at this point if I can get a toiсla toiders i can get sapl surface at my You can talk at The only value in it is that you're not going to make more of these creme de la creme versions. And I don't think they care. I think if it were up to them, they would have made more Ellie's of Godzilla, more Ellie's TRANSики County Killall Personal pic emphasizing pross estaban mehr,- rehythm- Terms of discussion Terms of discussion Forgs Metallica I been saying this for a while I here to tell you right now That 100 confirmed It happening And if you own an original Metallica they about to make a version of the game that blows yours away Now look it been 12 years So the statue of limitations on remaking Metallica is up but they going to do it So we going to get a Spike3 Metallica that is most likely going to have all new artwork It's the same layout by John Borg. He might have added some goodies to it. It's a game filled with toys because Stern actually put toys in games back then. I mean look at a Metallica from 12 years ago and now look at a John Wick. And you tell me Metallica LE which was like $6500. You look at a $13,000 John Wick and you tell me we're not going in the wrong direction. So they're gonna remake Metallica, Spike3, it's gonna have concert footage I'm hearing, it's gonna have all new animations, it's gonna have that incredible, maybe the best code ever from Lyman Sheets in the game, and an all new art package. So that's coming out and that's gonna be the big bet Stern makes this holiday season. So if you own a Metallica and you think you've got a Metallica LE, right? There was all those like special versions and you put all this money and I get it. You probably bought your game for a really good price and you're happy with it. But trust me, your game's going to be lapped by this new version of Metallica. That's going to be your game. Just so much better with sound and lighting and art and animations and screens and internet connectivity. Everything about it is going to blow your game away. Now, look, I wouldn't mind Stern going back to the well like this. If they hadn't been going back to the well so much recently. But again, it just looks like a company that's running out of ideas. A company that's built this big factory and they've got to keep all these people going. And I would love to see more originality in theme selection. I think they missed opportunities with like Superman and Beetlejuice. There's like all these things I think they could have done. And the thing is if they do something like a AAA theme but just do it better, right? It's like Star Wars should have been better. Stranger Things should have been better. Game of Thrones should have been better. Led Zeppelin should have been better. You know, it's like come on Stern. We know you got it in you. I can go back 20 years now and look at a Lord of the Rings which came out in 2004 and that game is And the contract was nodded in the box at million dollars in volume Intεν 대립 en는 disclosure 사인 above 페 한국 flex 찾아는 Yes, that is what I heard is going to be next from Jersey Jack, but there's a real caveat coming. So I heard from one of my most trusted sources that all the talk of Avatar, all the talk of Muppets, right, that's another one with them, all that talk is just a smoke screen. This company has the matrix and that is going to be Mark Sidon's game and everything elsebag title spiky and The end of the first movie. Hopefully it's only the first movie. Hopefully it has nothing to do with Matrix 4 and 3 was also atrocious. I hope it's just the first movie. It's all you need. Now what makes me a little bit nervous about it being the Matrix is I know just like a year or two ago that property was available and I know Dutch Pinball was thinking about picking it up but they picked up the better theme Back to the Future. So is Mark Sidon's game the Matrix? Now here's a crazy thing I heard over the weekend. And this came from somebody very, very internal in the industry who knows everybody in the industry. And he said, Chris, look, I'm just going to say this. And this is more aligned with what you heard about. If you can warm up to the theme, you're going to enjoy this game. And he's like, Chris, This is also coming from my guy who was the only one who was saying that Jersey Jack was making Elton John. And so I also trust this other individual. So here's the game that he said could be an out of left field theme for Jersey Jack. You know, and when he told me this theme, I started laughing out loud. I was like, there's no way. And then I had a pause moment and I was like, well, if there's anybody out there who would pick this theme and think it would work, it would be Jack Guarnari, a man who thought that the Godfather would work, a man who thought that Toy Story 4 would work. Now here's the crazy thing I heard. He said, Chris, the game that Mark Mark Seiden, I heard is working on that if you warm up to it, you're going to enjoy it. Terms of discussion Terms of discussion Margaritaville Jimmy Buffett Pinball Machine Now let that just sink in for a moment Do you think Jersey Jack Pinball after the last three titles is going to hit us in the winter time with a Margaritaville Pinball Machine that is honoring the music of Jimmy Buffett? I don't even know how to like discuss this further. I think there couldn't be anything further from the truth and you could say hey, Kaneda, someone's just pulling your leg on this but they're not. Like they actually are serious. So this is something that I haven't heard anybody say and I don't know. I could see Jack Guarnari thinking that if he makes a Margaritaville pinball machine, it would be the perfect addition to all the basement bars out there that all these grown dudes spinball todax boxeneins and the ability to look glasspsy to some folks internet, the The next games are either going to be The Matrix or Margaritaville. Don't go canceling your subscription. I mean you have to be chuckling wherever you are right now in the world that I would even say such a thing. You had no clue when I had that intro music on this show that that would even be in the consideration set of a Jersey Jack game. But I know they were considering Bob Marley, Marley, Margaritaville, Matrix, Metallica, Metallica? Marvel? Are we stuck on M as the only themes we can make in pinball? Here's my overall take on all of it. I still think this hobby is grossly overpriced. I'm seeing all these secondhand games. What's gonna happen now when thousands of Metallicas are now obsolete? What's gonna happen if we keep going back to the well? What's gonna happen to new in box sales if everyone just feels like you're gonna remake this game one day even better? What's gonna happen to all of it? Also, what's gonna happen when a dude looks down his lineup of Stern machines and says, Hey, I've already got a Metallica. I've got all these Marvel pins. I've got so many zombie Yeti games. What's gonna happen when everybody just realizes I don't need any more of any of this. I've got a plethora of the same type of stuff over and over and over again. I know I've spoken to people who are like I'm not gonna buy the new Metallica because I have it. I bought it for around $5,000. I've enjoyed it for over a decade and I'm good with it. Like I'm just gonna keep it. So I just think like all of this is gonna get to a point now where like the new in box prices are stupid. The old people that supported these companies all these years are gonna get burned. They're gonna turn their back on you. They've showed us they don't care, right? And that's not a good thing. It really isn't. I mean, at least Jersey Jack like never went back and remade more Pirates of the Caribbean. In hindsight, that's probably a good idea. Remember when Jack was making like different editions Terms of the Hobbit, Black Arrow edition, all these different Wizard of Oz editions, it didn't go over well. And I kinda like that Jersey Jack has just made the games now. Now look, the reason why they haven't made new editions of any of the newer games is they can't even sell the initial editions of the games that well. I mean they made so many Guns and Roses pinball machines, they could have made another Slash version of that game maybe at the end of the run to commemorate it, but you know they didn't. So that's good, but my overall feeling is that all All this stuff is gonna come out, right? All these games Stern with Spike3, the prices are stupid. We're all not getting 40, 50% raises. You know, when I was talking to George, he said that what's going on in the market now reminds him of how pinball was before COVID. And I told George, I'm like, George, just one big difference. The prices, you know, the prices now are crazy. The prices were not this much before COVID. And so you had like a feeding Mark Grammerwsale.nisoshealth準.adsail, Mike 2005 Advertising R travelersover, socketshacker, % Guo, Brand prep, identificillo, AS化, lobzo, B drawerweb, golpejoga,一直flashq provided reviews,icerws, asmr, Jiformskit, Venturefist,發現, of your standard form of citizens body typenahmen ярx Navy award a present from the A.J. Michael Dean 2009 adventure voice actoröll the Commendyline primero. After that, you heard it here first on Keneadus Pinball Podcast everybody. Enjoy your Monday. We'll be back with more. It is Brenda's birthday on Thursday. So if you want to send Brenda a drink on the house, just Venmo or PayPal me. The PayPal is KeneadusPinball at gmail.com and I will get her to do a personal thank you to anyone who sends Brenda a little birthday treat. How's that? Now I just got to convince her to do that. Later everybody. 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