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Epidsode: 29 Return of the Kuiper.... Turbografx7 is here!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Oct 9, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Ryan Kuiper returns to discuss Pinburgh, Magic Castle acquisition, and upcoming Whitewater purchase.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast episode featuring the return of Ryan Kuiper after an 8-month absence. The hosts discuss Ryan's recent Pinburgh tournament experience (competed in E division), his acquisition of a Magic Castle machine, upcoming game purchases including Whitewater, and the new Star Wars Vault Edition art package from Stern. The episode includes tangential discussions on fitness, sober October, and community connections made at Pinburgh.

Key Claims

  • Ryan competed in the E division at Pinburgh and made it through the first round of finals before elimination

    high confidence · Ryan Kuiper directly stated his tournament performance to Drew and Scott Ian

  • Pinburgh features four different pinball machine eras each round: EM, early solid state, System 11 era, and modern/DMD games

    high confidence · Ryan described the tournament format during discussion of his Pinburgh experience

  • Ryan acquired a Magic Castle machine for $1,400

    high confidence · Drew mentioned this price point when discussing how Ryan beat him to the purchase

  • Ryan sold his Metallica machine and plans to use proceeds to buy early solid state games

    high confidence · Ryan confirmed Metallica is sold with deposit paid and will be gone this week

  • Metallica code is by Lyman Sheets and plays similarly to Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars

    high confidence · Scott Ian identified the shared designer and gameplay characteristics

  • Stern released a new Star Wars Vault Edition with updated comic book-style art replacing the original 'clip art Photoshop' design

    high confidence · Drew described the recent Stern art package update released over the weekend

  • Ryan is placing a deposit on Whitewater (Dennis Nordman game) to be picked up at Pinball Expo

    high confidence · Ryan confirmed after the hosts guessed Whitewater in the 20-questions game reveal

  • Roger Sharpe (legendary pinball figure) attended Pinburgh and still competes regularly

    high confidence · Ryan stated Sharpe was present and the hosts confirmed he still plays in these tournaments

Notable Quotes

  • “It was hobby-changing. Far and away. Far and away.”

    Ryan Kuiper @ N/A — Ryan's powerful assessment of his Pinburgh experience as the best community event in his pinball career

  • “When you're forced to play, like, EMs and early solid states that you're not used to, they play so different. And it's, like, the great equalizer.”

    Ryan Kuiper @ N/A — Reflects on how Pinburgh's multi-era tournament format levels the playing field for players specialized in modern games

  • “Metallica is the only game I will probably ever purchase twice until I find another game I want to purchase currently”

    Ryan Kuiper @ N/A — Indicates Ryan's ambivalent relationship with Metallica—enjoyed it but doesn't expect to repurchase

  • “The nuance is chop, my man. Chop, chop, chop. That's the nuance.”

    Scott Ian @ N/A — Humorously dismisses Metallica's complex code mechanics, characterizing the game as repetitive wood-chopping gameplay

  • “It's still the same game. Yeah. But holy crap, does it look a lot better.”

    Drew @ N/A — On the new Star Wars Vault Edition art—acknowledges that while mechanics are unchanged, the visual refresh dramatically improves appeal

  • “You're one of a thousand people... there's lots of people that would want to be there, including myself.”

    Drew @ N/A — Highlights how prestigious and exclusive the Pinburgh tournament is within the niche pinball community

  • “Keith Ellen could lose a limb and he would still beat us at pinball”

    Scott Ian @ N/A — Humorous exaggeration of the skill gap between casual players and top competitive pinball players at Pinburgh

  • “I'd rather have more games for my buck with value... the older games will make me play better because they're so brutal.”

    Ryan Kuiper @ N/A — Explains his strategic shift from modern premium games to early solid states based on value and gameplay challenge

Entities

Ryan KuiperpersonDrewpersonScott IanpersonRoger SharpepersonSteven YoungpersonMartypersonJack Dangerperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinburgh tournament serves as major community binding event—Ryan describes it as 'hobby-changing' experience with emphasis on in-person connections with podcast hosts, designers, and competitive players he previously only knew online

    high · Ryan: 'Far and away. Far and away.' when asked if it was best pinball community experience; multiple references to meeting people from podcasts and streams in person

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern releasing Vault Edition art packages for existing games (Star Wars) as strategy to refresh aesthetic appeal without mechanical changes; hosts note visual transformation makes them reconsider purchasing

    high · Drew: 'holy crap, does it look a lot better'; hosts acknowledge game mechanics unchanged but visual upgrade dramatically improves appeal

  • ?

    collector_signal: Ryan shifting collection strategy from premium modern games (Metallica) toward early solid state machines based on value proposition and gameplay challenge; influenced by Pinburgh exposure to EM/early SS games

    high · Ryan selling Metallica to buy solid states; prioritizing value and brutality over modern mechanics; influenced by Dave's 40-game solid state collection seen at Pinburgh

  • $

    market_signal: Early solid state games positioned as better value proposition—three quality examples available for price of single modern premium game (~$7,500); Ryan expects to recover purchase price when reselling Whitewater

    high · Ryan: 'You can buy three of them for the price of a new modern game'; 'value stays on that one' regarding Whitewater acquisition strategy

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.251

0:00
brah welcome poor man's pinball podcast with drew and ian that was supposed to be the drum roll come on feel the noise girls rock your voice we'll get wild wild wild wild wild wild So you think I got an evil mind?
0:54
Do you prefer Mr. TurboGrafx-7 or just TurboGrafx-7? Either one, because I'm called worse most of the time.
1:02
I've been called worse. When you see him in public, call him Mr. TurboGrafx-7. That's Mr. to you. There's only one TurboGrafx-7. He couldn't be the TurboGrafx-7 the second. No, I'm going to move past it. All right, well, today we're going to talk about what Ryan's been up to, first off. because he's been gone for like eight months. We've been missing him. Or two. We do miss you. Even though you stole a machine from under my nose. We can talk about that. I'm still a little bitter about it, but I still love you, brother. Like I said, you know where it is. I know.
1:38
Fucking hot hostage. True story. It's tied up in this basement. You'll never see it again. But no, we really are glad to have you back, man. This is cool. That's awesome. Because we don't know anything about pinball. You're going to inject some pinball life into this. You guys know plenty. We've been skimming the surface, baby.
1:59
Skimming the surface or scraping the bottom of the barrel? Skimming. I like skimming. It seemed positive. I don't know why. All right. Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, personal pinball news. Drew, I hate that name. I know, because I just like to hear you say it. It doesn't mean anything. We'll talk about Star Wars art. the dead flip bump top five list and more turbo graphic seven stuff another top five list let's do top fives that's gonna be our thing yeah we're doing good with that ryan what do you think about our top fives you've been listening i like them you've been gone i listen to everyone awesome like them yeah we've been having fun with those yeah they're ridiculous yeah super ridiculous but we like them yeah and we've been getting a lot of feedback from the community about them because people like to say, you guys don't know what you're talking about. This is this. This is that. I like it. Yeah. And then they just tell us a dad joke. That's all they want to do is dad jokes. That is the best part. It's like, I love your show. I've been listening. You know, this, this, this, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then here's a dad joke. Here's a dad joke. Everything is signed off of the dad jokes. Feel free to use this. Yes. We have so much dad jokes. We're good to go. Keep sending them in, folks. 4manspinball at gmail.com. Nice. So, Ryan Kuyper. Returns Triumphantly Triumphant return Sorry for blowing up your speakers Wherever you may be That's going to happen every time we talk about his return by the way I know I mean he's not like He's not showing up with like a big ego I mean he did have a cape on And he said hey did you guys need me And we said yes Yes we do He pulled up in his car Which is now called the magic castle car Actually that is the vehicle I'm driving Is the one I picked it up in That wound is still salty I was parked into my car So for those of us Or for those of you that don't know What we're talking about So it was a couple weeks ago Where Drew was talking about In this personal pinball news About almost landing a magic castle Zachariah Machine 1400 bucks good deal So he was going to get it But he was second in line And we found out last week that it was our friend, Ryan Kuiper, who took it home. Ryan, tell us what it's like to be first in line. Yeah.
Steve Epstein
person
Bill Webbperson
George Gomezperson
Dennis Nordmanperson
Lyman Sheetsperson
Magic Castlegame
Whitewatergame
Metallicagame
Star Wars (Stern)game
Pinburghevent
Pinball Expoevent
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
Head to Head Pinballorganization
Slam Tiltorganization
Stern Pinballcompany
Williamscompany
Data Eastcompany

gameplay_signal: Metallica criticized for repetitive, 'wood choppy' gameplay despite complex Lyman Sheets code; players divided on whether mechanical simplicity is flaw or design choice

high · Scott Ian: 'The nuance is chop, my man. Chop, chop, chop'; Ryan notes split between players who understand nuances vs those who experience only repetitive shots

  • ?

    tournament_signal: Multi-era tournament format at Pinburgh creates 'great equalizer' effect—forces players out of modern game specialization, humbles modern-focused players against EM/SS specialists

    high · Ryan: 'they play so different... it's like the great equalizer. You might think you're great at playing pinball... and then you go and play some EMs and you just get your butt handed to you'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Roger Sharpe (legendary designer/IFPA founder) remains active competitor and community icon; mustache referenced as culturally significant marker of his identity to the community

    high · Hosts discuss Sharpe attending Pinburgh, still competing; extensive tangent about mustache being critical to his iconic status

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinburgh confirmed as massive community gathering with 1,000+ competitors; diverse attendance (multiple ages, women well-represented); attracts top-tier competitive players and casual enthusiasts

    high · Ryan: 'You're one of a thousand people'; 'every age you could imagine there... lot of women there too'; hosts discuss best players in world prioritize getting into tournament

  • ?

    design_philosophy: New Star Wars art demonstrates visual density principle—busier, populated playfield art creates perception of mechanical depth even with unchanged rules; compared to Deadpool's approach

    medium · Drew: 'There's a trick here... when you busy the art field. Now it looks like there's way more on it. It's the old Deadpool trick'

  • ?

    content_signal: Podcast personalities (Steven Young, Marty, Jack Danger, Slam Tilt hosts) form visible in-person community at major events; listeners develop real relationships with hosts through multi-channel engagement

    high · Ryan met multiple podcast hosts in person; exchanged merchandise (Loser Kid shirts, coasters); emphasized value of translating online interaction to physical community

  • ?

    product_concern: Whitewater acquisition has some playfield condition issues—holes in plastic on mountains area; buyer not concerned as game intended for play rather than restoration

    high · Ryan describes 'couple holes in the mountains' on Whitewater but states he won't 'soup up' the machine, just play until tired of it

  • $

    market_signal: Early solid state machines (Spooky Pinball, Zankor, Robot, Haunted House) marked by scarcity and high prices due to limited production runs (60 units or fewer); difficult to acquire quality examples

    high · Ryan: 'Spooky Pinball's hard to find. Zankor's hard to find... made like 60 of them, like literally... getting one in general with that kind of a run is tough'

    • 4:17
    Tell us what it's like to win. It's nerve-wracking because someone's telling you, are you sure you're coming? There's all these people banging my door down. He's telling me this? No, he's telling me this, that this guy's pressuring him, like, yeah, you sure you're going to be good? No, he was actually, he was cool. He was just being factual. Oh, he was a nice guy, yeah. No, he was being legit. He wasn't being a jag at all. He's actually a super cool dude. Super cool dude. It looks like he's sold a lot of stuff on Pinside. Yeah, he's had quite a few stuff, yeah. Oh, good. So how does the game play? How does it look? How does it shoot? Tell me a little bit about Magic Castle, because I am a rookie. I've never played a Zachariah game ever. Not even digitally? No. Do they have a lot of Zachariahs you can play digitally? Yeah, the whole, every one. Where do you do this, Ryan? Please tell us. You can do it on Steam. You can do it on Switch. Oh, Steam. Okay. By, is it Magic Pixel? Is it the company? Hmm. Dude, I got a Atari 2600. When does it come out on that? They're working on that. I'm old school. No, okay. That port's slow and coming. So are you planning on getting this thing restored? I know you have some friends that can do that. Are you? Within reason. I mean, the cabinet needs some work. I mean, it's... It's a player's game. Yeah, I mean, the play field's pretty nice, except for three inserts have some wear, which is the easiest to fix. the cab fortunately the the bad parts that can be worked on is just like in open gray areas there's no graphics by it so it's easily fixed for the most part relatively speaking but i'm not going to get like super crazy because we need to call bill webb and bill webb can fix that cabinet for sure good make you a new one seen his whirlwind i played his whirlwind what am i talking about oh It's gone. It sold it. The thing was beautiful. Blew away. Do we know what he got for that? I don't know. That was a badass whirlwind. I think he got a Jurassic Park. I thought he hinted.
    6:10
    He got Jurassic Park money for it. I don't know. And that's Jurassic Park 2, by the way. Yes, JP2. Yes. How do we feel about that? JP2? What are you going to do? You got to differentiate. Yeah, I guess. JP3, JPDE, maybe.
    6:26
    JP2 seems easier. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I like it. I'm joking. Oh, you know what? We skipped over. I'm sorry. What are you drinking today? Oh, Jesus. How do we forget this? Well, I didn't tell Drew this, but I'm going sober October. Whoa. I just. Whoa. You're over here pounding him and he's over here all. I got me. I've been drinking all day, folks. I just slammed. We need that Drew zip. I just slammed a Red Bull, so I'm pretty charged. I got to tweak on something. Okay. But, yeah. sober october no i i respect that i'm i'm drinking some uh winchester bourbon whiskey and sour love it excellent what about you mr ryan kuiper mr thermographic seven uh nestle pure life water uh there is a very would you say this is fluorescent or pastel oh dude just go that's past yeah it's there's a pastel skull it's pretty in pink it's a sugar on the label. It's a sugar skull. We're pretty ethnic here. It's sober October. I did not get that memo. Yeah, you know what, though? Joe Rogan's inspiring me. I've been listening too much to his shit. I'm not working out or anything. Don't get crazy. Well, actually, I probably should. My mantra is drunken every month, and that doesn't rhyme, so I'm okay with that. It pisses me off about Joe Rogan and his damn podcast. That he's super popular and doing good. I love that part. The most popular podcast in the world. I love that part. I love his podcast. It's awesome. I can't compete against that podcast. It's amazing. But the fact that he talks about working out so often, and it drives me nuts. I'm like, yeah, if I was a millionaire, I'd have time. But, dude, I'm a bum, man. I'm eight to five. I'm working all day long. I got a kid to take care of. I don't know, man. Props to all you fathers out there that actually find time to get to the gym, because I don't. Yeah. When you're a dad, you've got family, you've got obligations. It's tough, man. You know what I've been doing? I got like 45 minutes to myself before I have to pick up my daughter. Yoga.
    8:37
    YouTube yoga. I've been doing that. It's weird because I can do all the movements. I can stretch and all that stuff, but that's all it feels like. It's just like stretching. Hey, you're moving, man. I don't know. I don't know if I am. I have no idea or concept of how my body moves. It's more than me, so you're doing good. Yeah, I was going to say, when was the last time we were all at the gym? You got a sundial? I mean. Sundial. That's how we were married, that's for sure. Anyway, so yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to get, what I'd like to do is try some of that hot yoga. There's some down the street here. Hot yoga. Is that like hot chicks doing yoga? Nope. That's like they put you in a room and they crank it up to 100 degrees and you do yoga in the heat.
    9:21
    Sweat. See, that's the weird thing about yoga, man. I don't sweat. I don't get sore. I'm clearly not doing it right. It's not hard. Maybe you're already a perfect specimen. Oh, that's what I say to my wife.
    9:32
    I was like, dude, did you see my freaking yoga moves? Because I got the warrior pose down. Yeah, yeah. Maybe you're immoral. Downward dog. I am. I don't know. Downward dog, upward cat. There's a cat. There's a cat move. Yeah, you got to walk it out like a cat. I don't know. I've done it twice. I don't know. Anyway, so that's what I'm doing. So this is a pinball podcast.
    9:56
    All right, let's move on. Let's move on. All right, no, but no, Ryan, so he was in Pinberg. How'd that go? How'd you play?
    10:05
    Not good. You were in the top of the E division. Yes. My man, my man. Top of E. This is poor man's style. He was in the top of the last division. He won something, sort of. I made it through the first round of finals and got eliminated in the second. Like, total crash and burn ball of fire. Like, just miserable. But even though I didn't do great, I didn't even care. Like, just being at Pinberg was awesome in and of itself. Well, you're one of a thousand people. Because even though pinball is a niche hobby, niche, niche, whatever. Niche. You know, there's lots of people that would want to be there, including myself. And, you know, thousands and thousands of people. You're one of a thousand. you're playing against literally the best people in the world there's so many people like you have no idea who's good who's as good as you um i just assume everyone's better than me um but well you were pretty close well put um like you don't go in there thinking you know i'm great i'm gonna do real good because i'm gonna beat keith ellen yeah because that's the shit we say on this show and then we laugh about it but when we really get there we're like there's no fucking way he oh shit he showed up i thought i scared him okay just just so everyone's clear keith ellen could lose a limb and he would still beat us at pinball yeah somehow some way but one thing that i thought was awesome was just watching other people play in all the groups i was in and seeing like stuff i never saw before from all these different people like just different moves yeah like oh i never thought a nudge like that like you know like what did you call that one we were talking before we started the gorilla slap yeah just yeah let's do the gorilla slap the game and did some crazy english on it but see we're learning new stuff right now like a new move um i've been doing it my whole life, but not with pinball.
    12:12
    That's just called the monkey tug. Go ahead. Jesus. One thing that I really appreciated about going there was every round, if you've never been there before, you have to play an EM, an early solid state, then like a, I don't know. DMD? No, there would be like, after the early solid state, maybe like a system 11 era. And then after that, like a modern game. So that could be a DMD. It could be like an LCD. Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. So modern game could be a DMD. Yes, LCD. So you have to play four different eras every round. That I dig. That's cool. And it was, you know, the bulk of what I had played up until that point was modern stuff. Which is what we always talk about. I mean, you know, I have had some System 11 games, but the bulk of what I have is, you know, 90s Williams and current. So when you're forced to play, like, EMs in early solid states that you're not used to, they play so different. And it's, like, the great equalizer. You might think you're great at playing pinball or, like, you know, I'm good enough. And then you go and play some EMs and you just get your butt handed to you and you're like, oh, my goodness. And there's probably people there that you probably even saw that were really good at these older games but not so good at the modern games. Absolutely. Probably people in their 50s and 60s maybe playing. All ages, I'm thinking. Yeah, well, there was every age you could imagine there. And it wasn't like you would think, there's probably a lot of dudes there, and there were, but there was a lot of women there too. and it's awesome to see such a diverse group of people playing in this tournament and seeing how good these people are. And a lot of people made the statement like,
    14:02
    yeah, it's first come, first serve buy-in to get into it as fast as you can click is how you get in, but the best players in the world make sure they get in this tournament. Like you're going to be playing against the best players. And it was just super cool seeing everybody. like you could be in a group with like like you said keith owen i met so many people i had no idea who they were obviously because there's a thousand people were you in any groups with any notable people um steve epstein was in my group one time he ran uh broadway arcade um i'm trying to think who else would be notable um come on he was really good give us a big name here well i I mean, there's people in groups around me. Sorry, Steve. Yeah. His name's Steve, right? What was his name? Steve Epstein. Yeah. Sorry, Steve. Way to go, Steve. So Steve Epstein and Roger Sharp started Papa.
    14:56
    Okay. Fuck yeah, Steve. Yeah, way to go, Steve. All right. So, yeah, he was super cool. Did Roger Sharp, does he still play in these things? Oh, absolutely. Oh, so was he there? Oh, yeah. Okay. That's cool. He still got the mustache, right? That's important. You bet. No, he shaved it at some point. He shaved it and grew it back Too many people People are like what are you doing Too many people left the hobby after that mustache left They're like we're not coming back Until that mustache comes back This is like a pinball I expected a mustache It's so funny that such a niche hobby Has this guy who's like He's an icon You have to have that mustache It's like when Trebek shaved his Yeah that's true We should tell him that He's probably heard that I haven't listened or watched that show since. So I didn't know Jeopardy was so early.
    15:47
    I'm all about the mustache. But the greatest thing about going to the tournament, more than playing, and there's so many games there, guys, like everything.
    15:59
    What was even better than playing was just talking to everybody and hanging out with all these people and going to dinner and lunch with them and just meeting people that you've – There's people you hear on podcasts, you see them on streams, and they're all there. You can talk to them in person.
    16:15
    I'm hung out. I shouldn't say hung out. I talked for a while with Marty from Head to Head. We love you, Marty. All the Buffalo guys.
    16:24
    I hung out a lot for the finally in-person. Got to hang out with my buddy, Steven Young from Pinball Indesirables. Whose shirt I'm wearing, by the way. It looks very nice. You wear that shirt a lot. It's a nice shirt. I have your coaster, sir. Yes, right. I gave you some. Yeah. I need to meet that guy. Is he going to be at Expo? No. No? Not that I know of. But, and like, you know, everybody's there. Jack Danger's there. All the podcasters. So, like the Slam Tilt guys. The Pins.
    16:54
    I mean, everybody. And everyone is just super laid back, chill, cool. You can tell everyone there is just so happy to be seeing everybody in person. Right. And even if they did meet in the past or talk often, it's still cool to get together and still meet new people on top of it. So would you say it was your best pinball community experience? Ever. Far and away. And that's not to say going to the other conventions isn't that great. No, certainly. But I've heard you talk about this before off the air, and that's what resonates with me. You kind of glow when you talk about it. You're like, oh, shit. I don't want to be like, oh, it's life-changing. But it was hobby-changing.
    17:40
    Hobby-changing. Hey, I'll take it. We're in the niche hobby, so it's hobby-changing. That's fine. No, it's cool, man. Ryan's getting his hobby changed over there. That's pretty sweet.
    17:51
    No, I'm even more excited for Expo because same thing. You just get to see everybody. Yeah, you interact with these people on Facebook. You like their posts. You kind of give them some comments. You might text or call occasionally. But to meet these people in person, because you said some of these people you never actually met in person. Correct. That's awesome. Yep. Good job. It was awesome. Great time. Is it a big commitment for some people? I mean, yeah, it was four days, and that was somebody to work on my wife at the time. And you paid for it for how many days afterwards?
    18:28
    Paying still, my man. That's a five-year loan. That's not five-year loan. Five-year loan with the wife. I'm not paying with money. No, no. I'm talking about with the wife, sir.
    18:38
    Nope, we weren't either. Everyone in pinball land who has a wife understands what we're talking about. Yes. And we love you, Sue. Sue is an amazing woman, Ryan's wife. But, you know, you're right. It is. It's tough because you've got to go away from your family and spend several nights. And we had to make special arrangements with other people to help take care of our daughter. like when my wife was at work.
    19:02
    Would your wife ever be interested in going with you, or is that something she would want to do? Yes, but not to go to the show. Sure, just to go travel. Yeah, I'll go to Pittsburgh, and I'll go sightseeing and do stuff and bring my friend with me and go do stuff together. Pro tip of the day. Yeah. Bring your wife with you to the city and send them in the city. And a lot of people did. Sure, right? Absolutely, yeah. Okay, now we've got the secret to stay married. That's what you do. Bring your wife and give them spending money. There were so many people that were there that were not in the tournament. They were just – they were to experience the show and be there with their spouses or significant others or friends even. If I couldn't get in or whatever, I'm not a great player. So if I could just go there and just hang out. It's a good show, right? Absolutely. Like if I did not get in the tournament, I would still go just to hang out with everybody. All right. So we're – You heard it here first, folks. I'm going to Pemburg next year. I'll let your wife know.
    19:55
    You might want to tell Kathleen. You know it's in like a year or so. You got some time. Yeah. I feel like you're going to leave from here and just go right there now. It's not going on now, dude. It's over. I'm just going to drive. I'll get there eventually. I'm not going to drive drunk. Relax, everybody. I got an Uber for the way home.
    20:16
    And that, my friends, is what we call the Drew Zip. All right. Well, Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, personal pinball news. Can you say that again? No. No, can I? You'll fuck yourself? let's do this all right drew yes any news my man uh not much um i've been playing laser q more than any other game once again every day this week been playing laser q you know nothing else play a little bit of alice but uh you know i kind of looking for another maybe dmd game maybe something system 11 ish so you know my budget pretty good You know unless I want to sell something which I don really want to do it's System 11 budget time. So that's cool. Not a problem, not a problem. Nope. Ryan, I heard you just sold something. Yep, Metallica is gone. Metallica, bye-bye Metallica. Out the door. Never to come back. But it's not out the door yet. it's a deposit's been paid okay that's that's important good as off the door it'll be gone this week that's all right metallica is the only game i will probably ever purchase twice until i find another game i want to purchase currently right now i'm okay with not getting it again i feel like i enjoyed it more before i got it but you had some fun with it well yeah it's not a bad game i wouldn't have got it if i didn't like it um but it was one of those things where after i I got it home and just kept playing it and playing it and playing it. I'm like, it's just a lot of people – there's two camps. One camp is like it's real wood choppy, which is what I fall into. The other camp is like, well, you don't understand it. You got to understand all the nuances. And it's like, I do, and it's wood choppy.
    21:58
    The nuance is chop, my man. Chop, chop, chop. That's the nuance. I just dig it. And me, I won't get a premium again. I'll just get a pro. I'll get a used pro like that and just play it and have fun with it. I mean, Metallica, to me, falls in the same camp as Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars. Sure.
    22:15
    All three are Lyman Sheets code. Yep. All three have a center bash toy. Yeah. And you're hitting shots. Orbits and ramps. Yeah. I mean, that's really it. But for some reason, I like Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars better. I can see that. And I don't know if it's a nostalgia thing or what. No, you know, it's fun. I've considered Attack from Mars remake quite heavily. So you're right. I can see it.
    22:41
    It's still a stern that I have in high regard. It's just I'll be okay playing it someone else's house or on location. Is there a game in your collection that you would sell and then probably want to get back? I know it's hard to quantify, but Lord of the Rings or Simpsons? Well, I'm not selling that. I mean, if I sold it, I would definitely want to get it back.
    23:02
    Good point. Fair enough. Well, because in your pinball career, you haven't sold much, have you? I've sold Whirlwind, Addams Family, and now Metallica. Okay, so only three. And he's got a cool collection, guys. He's got Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and Simpsons and Dialed In.
    23:23
    So if you sold one of those, you'd probably maybe want to get it back. Yeah, I mean, essentially I'm getting rid of Metallica to buy more early solid states. It's kind of the reason for doing that. Anything in particular?
    23:36
    Man, there's so many. That's the problem. Magic Castle? I already got that. Check. I'd be okay with another Zack, but one of the Zacks I would want would probably be one of the more expensive ones. Some of those, they run the gamut. They're crazy. What's the one? Haunted House?
    23:52
    Spooky House? No, it's just called Spooky. Oh, is it called Spooky? Yeah, you're right. Spooky. What was that one? That looked fucking cool, but yeah, I think it's expensive. One of the local collectors bought Mexico 86. That's Neil. Yeah. and they were selling that for whatever they were selling it for. Oh, a lot. He picked it up, yeah. That's a hard one to find. Robot's hard to find. Spooky's hard to find. Zancor's hard to find.
    24:14
    Some of these games, I made like 60 of them, like literally. So, you know, getting one in general with that low of a run is tough. So, I don't know. Like, I want to get an early stern. So you'll be buying more solid states before you buy something modern. Yeah, at this point. Okay. And it's because of the value. I would rather have a lot of those games. Partially, it's because of Pinberg and to Dave's credit.
    24:43
    Dave has probably 90% early solid states. Yeah, he has roughly 40 solid states in his collection. So when you're able to play them and experience them. They're fun. Yeah, they're super fun. They're fun. A lot of them have that one more game thing going on. And you can buy three of them for the price of a new modern game. Absolutely. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. Okay. Now, I can respect that, because if you spend $2,500 on a good example of something like that, it's way better than spending $7,500 on something that might be cool and fun. Yeah, they're not bad. The expensive games that are new, I'm not saying are bad. I'm just saying my taste is changing. and I'd rather have more bang for my buck with value. And I'm not a great player, and I feel like the older games will make me play better because they're so brutal. And that's kind of what I'm looking for right now.
    25:38
    Something brutal? Yeah. You play Magic Castle, I'll just stick you in your thigh. How's that? That's perfect.
    25:44
    What the hell is going on? Just having fun over there. That's all. I would have thought you were supposed to be my back. You'd stab me in the back. oh my gosh what's next sir I put a deposit down for a game wait tell us let me guess I'm not going to tell anyone I know is it from a private sale yeah this is 20 questions let's go let's do 20 questions is it from a local person no I'm picking it up at Pinberg or not Pimberg, Expo. That's three. It's not a question, but a statement.
    26:28
    What's next? Is it a System 11? No. Is it a DMD? Yes. Is it a Williams? Yes. We're at six, ladies and gentlemen. Is it a George Gomez game?
    26:46
    No. Seven. Is it a Dennis Nordman game? Yes. We're at eight. That narrows it way down. I'll give you two more and then we move on. We're playing 10 questions, not 20. Is it Whitewater? Damn, he's good.
    27:06
    He's good. He got it in eight. Hopefully with everything going on, I'll be picking up Whitewater at Expo. I'd say Whitewater, Demolition Man, and Scared Stiff, my favorite Nordman games. So Ian tried to go without a pinball and couldn't because he needs a pinball in his life. Who doesn't? Absolutely. And good choice, by the way. I was super excited when you told me he was doing this. I needed a pinball down here. So it's in good shape. It has the original topper. Which is cool. Yep, it's cool. See, he stripped the bastard down, waxed it all up, and she looks good. Everything works. No, it's a good-looking design. There's some small planking by the flippers, behind the flippers, and then there is a couple holes in the mountains. But other than that, she works 100%. Yeah, that part was weird. Is that just rotted out? By the pops, you mean?
    28:02
    No. No, it's just like holes in the plastic. On the top. Yeah. What? Where? On the mountains. I don't know where. Somewhere in the mountains. You can see in the pictures. Other than that, nothing I'm going to care about because this isn't something I'm going to soup up and I'm just going to play it until I'm sick of it, and then that will go out the door too, and I'll find something else I like. I liked it for one reason only, and Drew and I kind of talked about it personally. It was just value stays on that one. It's always going to be, and it's not getting remade anytime soon, so I'll get exactly what I put into it when I sell it. I'm good with that. Totally. Good game. Good choice. what do we got next Star Wars art that's my Star Wars song I don't know that's what I heard so Stern just released a new art package for an older game kind of a vault are we calling it a vault we're vaulting it boom it's been vaulted you heard it here first folks poor man's pinball podcast Stern's vault edition of Star Wars yes so they released this I don't know a few days ago over the weekend right and basically changed that clip art looking Photoshop. Clip art, yeah, that's the good word. Photoshop looking play field to a beautiful, I would say beautiful, comic book style. Something that is probably so meant for that machine. What? Star Wars in general. Yeah, what do we think is the best one? It's the premium. That's with Vader prominently displayed. I like the TIE Fighter one. What is that? And it's got Boba Fett on the side. That's the premium. Yeah, I don't like that one. I like the other one. Really? Yeah. I'm surprised. Why is that?
    29:52
    I thought the premium would have struck your fancy. You don't even know me, bro. You don't even know me.
    30:02
    Hold on. I'm looking up the pictures right now. Let me take a look. But looking at that thing, it did make me take a double take. and I'm like, I might want to get this damn thing. I mean, it looked good, right?
    30:15
    Yeah, it looks good. I mean, you and I have talked about this. It's still the same game. Yeah. And that's the thing. At the end of the day, we know it's the same game. Yeah. But holy crap, does it look a lot better. Yeah, it looks way better. It's still, that's one of those games to me when it came out, I was like, this is the most stripped down nothing game for such an amazing license. I know. Yeah, I like the Pro Cabinet. Yeah, it's got the TIE Fighter and the Death Star and the Star Destroyer. But it's still, it's so fun, though. It's so beautiful. And then you got Darth Vader on the side there, too. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, I'll talk to myself. That's cool. We all are. I'm still, like, five minutes behind. All right, catch me up, guys. What are we talking about? Well, no, dude, I mean, the game, though. I mean, no, it doesn't make the game better, because obviously the game's exactly the same. Right. There's a trick here, right? There's a trick to your eye when you're looking at this play field. It's so busy now, and it's full. It's populated. It's the old Deadpool trick. You busy the art field. Now it looks like there's way more on it. Do you guys see that? When I looked at that, I thought for sure they added something to it. And then I had to do a double take and a triple take. And now I'm looking at it, and I'm still looking at it, and I'm like, nope, it's the same game. But it looks busier. It looks like it's a full play field. Not to get too far off topic, but it's funny you mentioned Deadpool, because Deadpool is now number eight in the top 100. It's growing, baby. What do we think about that? That is totally off topic.
    31:44
    You said it. That is so far off topic. It is number eight now. I feel like. I was thinking about this earlier, and I said, you know, the game has grown on me, but not to that degree. There's a lot of people I know that love it, though. Yeah, I wonder what's wrong with them. I don't like it at all. You don't like it at all? I do not like Deadman. Really? No. Okay. Because like I said, it's grown on me. I think it's a solid game. Definitely not a top ten game. I just don't understand how this happened. What do you think, Ryan? Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying it's horrible. The art package is amazing on that game. No one defeats that. The display is awesome. It's just, I look at that game and I go, two ramps and a bobblehead. An actual bobblehead, not a sparky bobblehead, but an actual bobblehead. And I'm like, I can't. This does not justify the money. That is the best quote ever, an actual bobblehead, not sparky. That's what bugs me about it. Really? People love it. I'm like, well, that's your thing. It's just not for me. Well, let me ask you this. What if that bobblehead wasn't even there? I'd like it more. Wow. Yeah, that bobblehead really bugs me. Wow. Okay. I don't mind the bobblehead. No, I don't mind it. I just don't like how clunky the damn thing shoots. Like, you can't fix that with code. I mean, some of it is nice. Some of the shots do feel nice. I'm not that great a player, and I've played quite a few games on Deadpool because my eyes are drawn to it. It's gorgeous to look at, and I love the animations, and I love the direction they took Deadpool.
    33:22
    But, yeah, I mean, it's just one of those games. Like, you know what? I'd love it down here so I could put some hours on that thing. but I don't think I'd want to, one, pay the money for it, and two, I don't think I would. I think I'd get sick of it once I got the shots down. Because being in the top ten, you can't take that lightly. No. I mean, that's a lot of people saying, hey, this game, and you hear it too. People are like, oh. People love it. Yeah. The fact that it passed up Iron Maiden speaks a lot, because Iron Maiden is still, I think, one of the best shooting games to come out in the last few years. I mean, even I like it better as far as a shooter, pure shooter now, than Jurassic Park. I only say that because I think Jurassic Park, there's just one too many shots in Jurassic Park. However, I do love, I like Jurassic Park more overall than Iron Maiden. But just shooting, I find Iron Maiden to be way more fun to shoot. And that's just me. I blew up a Deadpool a couple weeks ago, and that was the first time I really blew one up. It was like almost a billion points or something. So I had a good game. I got to see a lot more in it. It was enjoyable.
    34:34
    Did you get to mech suit multi-ball? I did. Yeah, so did I last time I played. Very cool. So I think there's a lot to it. You know, I hear the guys from Special and Lit talk about it. I think Ken has one.
    34:48
    I thought he sold it, didn't he? Maybe. I don't know. He's had one for sure. Yeah, exactly. So he does not have one. Pro or whatever. He might still have it. So, like I said, I play it on and off. Not frequently, but I play it enough because there's several places I have it and I've got in front of it. And I'm a big comic fan, too. And I'm a big Deadpool fan. I subscribe to Deadpool Comics. I get Deadpool Comics sent to my house. I dig it. I love it.
    35:13
    But with all that being said, to me it's kind of like Spider-Man. I'm the biggest Spider-Man fan. I get Spider-Man sent to my house, too. I don't own a Spider-Man. I could. so I don't know I'm kind of torn because I could buy one or both of these machines and I don't and there's a reason for that so I don't know they're okay, they're good but not great so you like the premium artwork on Star Wars I was just going to say, back to Star Wars excellent, excellent but I do like the premium is I think the way to go is there another Stern machine that you would like them to redo the artwork on? Game of Thrones would be good probably won't happen Walking Dead I just and Walking Dead is another game I really like I don't mind the play field art for Walking Dead no I don't mind it but it could be done better I agree with you there I just think they need to get these guys to like do what they did with Star Wars and kind of drop it and do it my issue with Star Wars the original the artwork, whatever it's just a game like new artwork does not make me go now the game's better I know, and the hype did suck me in a little bit because I was looking at it part of that's just because I'm a big Star Wars fan, so I see it and I go oh shit, this looks really good and it does but I'm with you I'll admit, the more I've been having to play Star Wars I appreciate it more than I did before but that still does not mean I'm looking for one by any means no you're right and once again that game at maybe $3,000 sure it'd be pretty cool to have in a collection the premium paying people are still asking $6,500 for that the issue here is Star Wars is everywhere you can play Star Wars anywhere you want we could just stop this right now and go play Star Wars Star Wars, Ghostbusters. You can play those games pretty much anywhere, and that's the other reason why there's no need to own a Star Wars. If you have one near you, you will find it, and you can play it anytime you want. And slight sidebar, do you think they're going to remake Ghostbusters now with the new code and the new... I had no problem with the original code. My problem with that game is the air balls and the horrible geometry.
    37:44
    And the unfair... I mean, everyone's like, well, you've got to set it up right. Well, what if they vaulted it and changed the flipper gap? There's been a lot of talk about that. Would that change your opinion on it? Probably. Okay. But, I mean, how many times have you played it and the ball jumped the rails and, like, just hopped over the flippers and, like – Well, if they're redesigning that, I'd hope they redesign that shit, too. That's what I'm saying. Well, I think they would, yeah. Because they'd have to. That is such a dream theme for me, and I was so excited when they announced it. I was like, oh my gosh. And then I played it and I'm like, oh no. So that was almost an instant buy for you? It was, yeah. We had that top five discussion about it too. Top five games that shouldn't be on the top 100. We talked about Ghostbusters. God bless it. We love it. We love the theme. The execution was so fucking close on the surface. But when you got there to play it, the sounds, everything is just perfect. it's just have you played one with that center gap yeah i have oh they had that at blackbird what initially yeah oh it's not there i don't think so i haven't been to blackburn forever but no no if you have to buy plastics to stop the ball from it's the only way i understand that but if a little kit could solve that issue that would be okay right you spend 50 bucks and you it would be okay but why do you have to pay for it understood shouldn't have to right yeah all Check, point taken. What's next? Well, I was just going to ask you guys what about Lord of the Rings artwork package. That could use an update. And I love the game. I own it.
    39:22
    Okay, here's my thing. Lord of the Rings, take away the artwork, still one of the best games ever. Sure. Just rip off the artwork, make it a white game, I'm good. Well, you know what? I feel the same way I'm most about Game of Thrones. I like the game. I like playing it for whatever reason. The pro, not the premium, but I love the pro so much. but yeah i i don't i don't mind the art as much this goes back the clip art doesn't bother me even the star wars game isn't wasn't ugly to me i'm with you i'm with you but this does look better because it tricks it tricks your brain into thinking there's way more on that than there is we need to make a zach many said it we need to make like competition games yeah there's no artwork no nothing yeah just game one game two game three yeah because if you had lord of the rings as like game one people would be like oh this game's awesome yeah it still shoots great yeah yeah it's a cool game whatever you know so i i think you know but but art is so cheap that's the argument do you hear about franchi go ahead tell us about franchi franchi left uh stern and he made it official he made it official on his facebook page so now where do you think he's going they said he hasn't played somewhere else he has said he's employed oh yeah he says he's doing pinball art. You'll be seeing it in the near future. So I'm pretty excited. Problem is, Stern pushes out a lot of games, so there's more chances for him to... Sure. But Ryan, do we think he's J.J.P. now?
    40:47
    That'd be cool. I mean, I'm just... Ryan knows. He always knows. No, I don't. I'm just glad he's still doing pinball art, because I think he does a very good job. Would you rather see him do Guns N' Roses, or would you rather see him do something from Deep Root? I don't know what the hell Deep Roots is doing I don't know Dennis Norman of Ira 4 shit I'm just happy that he's still going to be making art for pinball we love you Chris thank you so much for sticking with us email us at poormanspinball at gmail.com tell us what you're doing next thanks Chris appreciate it you have an open invite too by the way Chris if you ever want to just spew some shit they said you're doing a in depth interview with a pinball podcast How is it not us? We're the number one podcast on the internet and anywhere. According to us. We are the sloppiest show on the internet. Oh, you'd fit in perfectly. Chris we need you buddy We need you He listening I know he is I can feel his aura It would be Chris French triumphant return
    41:51
    All right. Anyway, we'll move on. Did you guys see the dead flip little post? Not post, but. Tell us about it. I love it. Ball save. It was awesome. Yeah, it was kind of a cool little flip ball save. And now this is for the game he's making, right? This is his homebrew. Yeah, yeah. It's a cool little feature. Super cool. So Jack Danger has this little fun little gizmo thing on his new machine that he's making. It's essentially his left out lane. The ball goes down, and there is a pop-up post that will pop up. And if he holds the left flipper, it will hit that post and bounce right onto the right flipper. The post is in the left, like to the left of the trowel. It's like the trowel hole. Yes, yes. It's almost, it should be a drain, but it bounces off to safety. What a super simple thing that it's almost one of those things like, why didn't this come out before? Pretty cool. You guys have thoughts? No, I think it's very innovative. It's cool.
    42:55
    It's neat. I mean, I watch this thing. I got things to say about this. I watch this thing like 30 times in a loop. And every time I was like, that's really cool. Because, you know, it's kind of like the, they have the two things, the death save and then what's the one on the left? No, one's called the bang back and one's called the death save. Well, bang back, so it's already in the trough almost and you whack it back. Correct, but it depends what side it comes on, I think. Maybe not. I think it depends, but okay. I'm just going to say I don't know. Yeah, because we don't do it because Jack Danger like broke his wrist doing one once. Alright we got a top 5 list eh Top 5 Here's our top 5 list We came up with An idea that we would do Our top 5 Best value pins And after talking about it Since we all have our lists now All three of us did it a different way Isn't that how this always works Like every time we do a top 5 list like ian goes well i did this way and i did this way and now we have ryan who goes i did it this way yeah that's exactly how this went so drew how did you do your top five list that's just for the people so my top five list was i kept everything under four thousand dollars okay because i thought that was you know when you talk about value yeah you know it's got to be something that's reasonably priced and some are as low as called 1500 that's that's my dollar range and i just i just did value you get like replay value able to play a pin over and over for i don't want to say the least amount of money but you know you get a really good pin for a decent amount of money does that make sense nope makes sense ryan how'd you do yours uh obviously value subjective So what I did is I just took DMDs that are under Stern Pro pricing.
    45:05
    I didn't want to go – I mean, I could have got real crazy and went down to, like, you know, solid states, whatever else. Yeah. But I just wanted to think – put myself in the position of a new person in the hobby, likes something flashy enough with a DMD, but doesn't want to pay those prices. Sure. And there again, like, a Stern Pro used, most of them are between $4,000 and $5,000 or less. But, yeah, four grand is kind of that mark, so something less than that. Okay. And I did anything under two grand. That's still a good pin. So here we go, guys. This is going to be way different. Yeah, whatever. Drew, go number five, buddy. Start us off. Number five. So this one is actually at the highest end of the dollar mark, which makes it the lowest value. So number five. But it has a lot of stuff in it. And I don't want to say controversial, but this pin is kind of split. But half the people really say this is a great pin. The other half are like, yeah, I don't like it. That's almost every game. Yeah, exactly. So it's one of those things. Ripley's, believe it or not. Nice. You know, it's a game that, like I said, it's not inexpensive.
    46:08
    I looked today on Pinsider. Some sell them for $3,700, $3,500. You can probably get a decent one for a little over $3,000 in some cases, right?
    46:18
    They never go over $4,000, though, I don't think. Ryan's shaking his head. He's like, nope. so you know three to four thousand dollars but you get a lot of game right the code's kind of deep there's a lot of stuff to do there's a lot of cool toys so like very quirky yeah quirky but family friendly yeah you know you could put this thing in your in your basement and it would be fun for everybody so i that that was my number five right these are not like a particular order it Just five. Do you know what a top five is? I'm going to run down in the order I have them listed. Perfect. That's exactly what we needed. Poor man style. Just do it that way, brother. Ryan Strump in return.
    47:01
    Demolition Man with Idle. I like that. Demo Man. I like that. Both of your guys' pins are awesome. So why Demo Man? Yeah.
    47:10
    I know why. We've played it. It's awesome. It's not super deep. It's simple. But for being a wide body, it's very flowy.
    47:22
    Well, yeah, because you don't use those two left shots. Well, yeah, I mean you can, but I mean it's one of those games where this is fun. It's just fun to play. And I love the audio, the callouts, all the stuff in the game, and it's cheap. I mean they're going for like $3,000 or less even sometimes. Can I buy yours for $3,000? No. Mine's at a high-end restore.
    47:45
    See what I did there, folks? we saw it but yeah I knew where that was going I'll trade you two magic castles for it Ryan's game is so nice I've yet to see him plunge a ball in that game he's like that's not working you can't play it look at it but don't you dare fucking touch it guys have you ever streamed that one yeah I have I don't remember that one is it in the archive or no it might have been faded out Okay, alright My number five is one that Ryan can't stand And that's why I love it so much Speaking of wide bodies It's the widest body Again, I'm doing mine under 2000 So I went Space Invaders Nice! I went Space Invaders for a few things One, Ryan looks perturbed I know, he doesn't like it The artwork is phenomenal I love the artwork, I love the back glass I love the shots I love how that inner horseshoe loop right away That's a bitch of a loop, but I love it.
    48:48
    The spinner has a great noise to it. The sound effects are great. The game's easy to understand. No one can debate that back glass is one of the best back glasses. That's a cool back glass, man. Nobody gives that back glass enough love. I know. The mirror, and it looks like lots of them, and it's cool. It's the best mirrored back glass since ever. but just don't put all green leds in it but it's my number five fuck off all right number five it's my number five i like it i dig it man number four there are two words to describe this pin camel toe baywatch once again it's a game it's fun yeah ever you know i've never heard anyone actually you play this game i'd be like oh that game sucks it just doesn't happen right because anyone who's into pinball has been in pinball for a while they play it and they go yeah like that game's not bad most people say it's their guilty pleasure sure like i said it's it's not is it the best game of all time absolutely not is it a even a great game no i wouldn't say that it's good it's a good game You can get it for about $2,500. It's fun. It has cool mechs. It's got the big Sega display on it, the extra large display, which is neat. Now they have a color DMD for it. I love it. Yeah. Baywatch, like I said, it's kind of in there. It's number 113 in the pin side top 100 for a reason. Will it ever break the top 100? Probably not. But it is what it is. Everyone can appreciate it.
    50:28
    Well done, Drew. Thanks. Good job, buddy. We love it. You know I love it. I know. You know I love me some Baywatch. One of us sometime will own that machine. There was one for sale on Craigslist for a long time, and finally someone bought it. Did they want stupid money for it, though? I don't remember. It was like last year when it finally sold. You can't ask more than three grand, but you're going to get that $2,500 for it, I think, is where you're at.
    50:54
    What do you got, Ryan? Number four. Johnny Mnemonic. Ooh, the glove. a lot of people hate the gloves i think they're fine i don't care like it's it's the same thing why do people hate the gloves because it's the same thing demolition man fast flowy and that stops the flow because all of a sudden now you're slowly moving the ball with magnets and why do people hate that so much i think it's innovative i think it's cool i know people are like oh the claw or the um yeah the magnet on demo man like who gives a shit it's cool it's something You think it's part of pinball? Oh, we turn this off for tournaments. Okay, that's fine. I get that. But come on. Yeah, I mean. It's cool.
    51:35
    Johnny Mnemonics. Man, someone sold one. Have you played a bunch of Johnny Mnemonics? I've played it enough, yeah. Okay. I just want to know where you can find one. Someone put one up on Facebook, and I didn't jump on it because I was like, oh, Sue will kill me.
    51:49
    1700. Whoa. And I didn't even click on it because I'm like, there's got to be something wrong with it. Ryan, do what I do. Buy it, put it in Ian's basement. That's the plan. That's an idea. Everybody is. I got some room. Ian has an empty basement now. It's not empty, man. I got a lot of shit in this basement. Well, we'll find room. I'm going to buy the next good game that comes across. Next two games that come across. No, I got a game coming. You can just focus on another one, all right? Okay, and we're getting that fucker down here. That's what's happening. Can I borrow some money for this whitewater?
    52:23
    You got it, brother. All right, cool. I'll send you a bill. Okay. All right, so my number four. So I want to kind of like, I was going to pull a Drew and kind of lump them all together, but I'll just say one. I almost did that. You guys know what I'm talking about. So I was going to go with the Dennis Nordman, Party Animal, Doctor Dude, and what's the other one? Party Monsters. But for under the $2,000 rule, I will go for Party Animal.
    52:52
    But this all just describes every one of them. So it's personality. They're underrated. They're easy to learn, easy to master. And they have cool stuff on them. And they're full games. Dennis Norman knows how to make a game. They shoot good.
    53:08
    If they just did games. I think you couldn't go wrong with any of those. I get it. It's like I'd almost say that's niche too because there's not everybody. Not everybody enjoys the beer drinking party 80s kind of thing. But I'm into it. No, but a lot of those games have cooler mechs, cool things, and they're not in the top 100. It's really kind of disturbing. Yeah, there's a party animal for sale on Pinside for $1,200. How could you go wrong? Oh, my God. How could you go wrong? Buy two of them. Yeah, exactly. Buy two of them, kids. So there you go. Awesome. That was your number four. That's my number four.
    53:48
    My number three is a game. This one is polarizing. like you know you said most games half people love it half of the people in this game are so vocal and they're like oh this game sucks it's a shallow rule set and the other half are like I love this game I'll never get rid of it I am actually looking for one of these now I've been looking for one for a while it's not Magic Castle no whatever you ready for this? It's Mystery Castle I can't afford that yeah that one those are like $6,000 I haven't looked for one in a while but people say that's the best LNG game it looks awesome it's crazy looking for $6,000 I couldn't buy an old game like that but cool looking game Swords of Fury Lion Man there you go I knew that was coming people I only played a couple games on it I'm hoping at Expo I can get a few more games on it it's a system 11b i guess is what it is it for me it's the poor man's shadow right it's got the upper play field it's a lot of fun it's got yeah we we played it no ian and i played it together we had some fun with it we were gonna pull our money and buy that yes that night and they go for about 2500 bucks and like i said there's a lot of people that say oh this game sucks whatever but there's also a lot of people that say you know i wish i didn't sell it or it's in my collection and I keep it and whatever. But for $2,500 and being a System 11 game, I know Ryan's looking at me. He doesn't care for it. I do not like Swords of Fury. How much time have you spent on it? Not enough. Yeah, that's the correct answer. You play it until you love it. You all shut up and sit down and play this. So we're all saying Lion Man together. Hey, I appreciate the Lion Man thing. I don't care about the Lion Man thing. I'm going to own one of these games. I'm going to own it. If I don't like it, I'll sell it. You know what I mean? This is one of those games that I'm not glued to. I'm not whatever. But I will own one for at least a period of time because I just think it's that cool.
    56:03
    And for a value pin, let's be honest, it's got a lot on it for what it is. So, see, even Ryan, yeah, he's placating me. I get it. But for $2,500, you get a lot of bang for your buck. Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. With the upper play field and all the stuff. It's a beautiful game. It's cool. I love it. It has character. It does have character. There you go. He's coming around, kids. You would never own one? No. Is that what I'm hearing? Okay. So Ryan doesn't want a Swords of Fury Baywatch. I'll pass along to you. I would take a Baywatch. Wait, wait, wait. So you won't steal this one from me? No, you can have it. Oh, okay. Nice. You heard it here first. Anyone selling a Swords of Fury in the South Wisconsin or Northern Illinois, Ryan will not be undercutting me on this one. Watch him undercut you anyway. I know. Wouldn't that be hilarious? He's going to take a picture next to the Magic Castle. True. I have a Swords of Fury for sale. It's $5,000. What do you want? Jesus Christ. All right. What do you got, Ryan?
    57:10
    Flintstones. Number three, yes. I used to not care too much for it, but I've had to play it quite a bit in League and stuff. And the more I've had time on it, the more I've appreciated how packed the game actually is. That game is packed with tons of stuff. I only played two games on it. I had a lot of fun in it. Yeah. I thought about putting that one on here. It's cool. Super cool. I like how depending on what shots you need to hit, depending on what ramp you hit, the ball will go to the opposite flipper you need to make your shots and stuff. It's so cool. And it's got a bowling alley, and it's not the Big Lebowski, and it's not $20,000. That's true. Wait, how much is Big Lebowski? $20,000. Oh, wow. Never mind. I've got to cross that off my list. Hold on. Value pin? Not a good value pin, apparently. I think at $15,000, Big Lebowski is a value. No. I terribly misjudged that one. I got to change my number, too. No, you're right. You can get that for about $3,000, right?
    58:14
    $3,500. Probably $3,500. It's a DMD. It's solid. It's a good game. I've only played a couple games on it, but it was cool. Yeah. And that thing, how does that flipper thing work? Yeah, it goes to the opposite flipper of what you need. It's weird. Like, whatever shot you need to make, the game puts the ball to the right flipper you need. Yeah, it comes down, like, into the out lane or something. It comes around. It loops back around. It's very bizarre, but very cool. But it's got the dinosaur, and the ball will go down its neck, out of its mouth, into the pops. Yeah. Like, there's so many diverters in it. Yeah. Like, I like the apron. It's like rock. Yeah, and straight down the middle. Yeah, it is one of the best worlds under last. Yeah, absolutely. Because one of the big knocks on this game was that it was the movie Flintstones. If this was the cartoon Flintstones, knock it out of the park. Yep. I'd agree. So there you go. Good choice, man. Love it. See, Ryan's really good. So when it comes to me, I feel really shitty and self-conscious about my choices. I have another Dennis Norman game. What does that say about Dennis Norman? Hey, I like his stuff too. And he's one of the best designers of all time, and you're getting a Whitewater in your house? For under $2,000, he is the best guy. All right, here we go. Is Whitewater under $2,000? Fuck no, I wish it was. All right. Number three, I got a nice little jungle theme, nice light show, fun shooter, looks pretty, artwork shit, but I don't care. For, you know, $1,200, this could be yours, kids, and that's Special Force. Oh, good one. Good choice. On the chopper. Yeah, you got the missile launch shot to the chopper. You have to save everyone. I love when you started off, that atmosphere of the crickets going. It's real dark in here. If you guys haven't seen the TNT video, Todd Tuckey of Special Force, go watch it. Yeah. It makes me want it even more. That was the one we watched, and Ian and I were like, yep, this pin's fucking cool. I want it. 1986, that was like a couple years after Rambo came out. Oh, man. Yeah, super cool. That's right up there. Super cool. I'm into it. I totally agree. And that was his first game, I believe, Dennis Norman. So good job, Dennis. All right, Drew, what are we, number two? Two.
    60:33
    All right, this one is number 62 in the Pinside Top 100, but it's still a huge value. World Cup Soccer. Yeah. You know, World Cup Soccer is one of those games, once again, I don't think anyone hates it, right? You know, anyone who's in pinball can at least appreciate it. Absolutely. It's not terribly expensive. It has a lot of cool stuff going on. I mean, it has more ramps, more diverters, more scoops, more stuff going on than just about any game you could possibly imagine. And it's only $3,000.
    61:11
    There are literally ones you can find out there that are in good shape for $3,000. Nothing more to say. and it's one of those games you can score in the billions which is fun cool toys like I said, cool mechs, cool ramps cool shots it's just a fun game and I've toyed with buying one of these over the years it's on my list and if time comes we might all own one of these, right? there you go so you agree with that one? how about Swords of Fury? if you want it Womp womp Damn it Ryan you and I agree on almost Every pinball thing we really do Ryan and I A lot of people love it It's just not my thing Isn't it crazy like for Ryan and I I'm still talking about Swords of Fury Yeah I have to I'll never let it go You're so wrong No I'm just letting the people know Like you know Ryan and I Simpsons we both love it dialed in. We both love it. I had Hobbit for a while. He has a Hobbit. We agree on most of these games. We're talking about solid states. We're like, yeah, I love this game. He's like, yeah, you got this laser cue. It's pretty cool, this and that. And then he's like, Sars of Fury, go fuck yourself.
    62:30
    I don't know if I go that far. He said it a little harder than I said it. No, he did. But it amazing He did say that for Space Invaders though I saw him on Twitch say it True story No I just find it interesting because it was like one of literally like 100 pins that we don agree on
    62:48
    No, it's fine. It's all right. I think it's great. I mean, I'm not going to say it's bad pinballs. It's just not one I would go out of my way to get. That's a game you wouldn't know by. Okay. That's cool. If it's on location, yeah, I'll play it, but I'm not going to. No, that's fine. I just want to point out to the crew.
    63:02
    To the poor man's pinball crew. All right, Ryan. Number two. Another Williams. Judge Dredd.
    63:11
    I can't be friends with you. That's fine. That game has so many ramps. That it sucks? No. It's got so much unique stuff going on. That it sucks? Plastic? No. It's got so much unique plastic. No. There's a lot of metal in it.
    63:28
    It's... For a game that's cheaper... That sucks. that a lot of people dog on. That sucks. I don't think it's that bad. Be respectful, Drew.
    63:40
    He had to say it because we were talking about it the other day. No, and Dredd is one I've spent quite a bit of time. I've played it quite a bit.
    63:50
    It's got a ton of shots. Okay, so Sylvester Stallone versus Sylvester Stallone. Except this is the comic book version. No, I understand. But it's Sylvester Stallone. We can all agree. And I'm not a Dredd fan. No, no, I know. I'm not like... But how do you compare that to Demoman? Because it was Bally Williams, because Bally was Judge Dredd. Oh, it's tough because... You know, they're both wide bodies, right?
    64:14
    Demoman's way more flowy. Yeah. But I feel like there's more to do in Dredd. Would you honor Judge Dredd? For the right price, absolutely.
    64:24
    You heard it here first, folks. Absolutely. I'm speechless. You should be. I am. So you would trade Metallica for Judge Dredd? Plus cash.
    64:35
    Not much cash. What does a judge... So we're talking about value pins. What does a judge's dread go for? Hold on, I got it up right here. Three grand? Three grand off the top of my head. So probably the same as all these other ones.
    64:50
    $25.90 to three grand. Yep. Hands on top of it. I think for that price... I mean, I wouldn't put it on my list if I didn't think that. Good value. Yeah, it's value. and that's kind of where I'm looking at right now I'm making another drink while I'm talking to you because Jesus Christ Judge Dredd's one of those machines I see why people like it it's certainly not for me so you just, what, you dig the shots? or you dig the... I think there's a lot to do on it there is the theme, like I said, I'm not a big Judge Dredd fan it's okay but it seems almost, like I said It is kind of like Demoman in a lot of ways, right?
    65:35
    Demoman's got less going on than Judge Dredd. But wide body, same kind of shots. They got several ramps. Well, that's every pinball machine. Can I say I love the art on Judge Dredd? I think that art is so cool. It's cool. It's that comic book style. It's a cool-looking pin. Yeah, it is. No, it's a neat-looking pin. I don't have any problem with the way it looks.
    65:59
    I just want to throw him off a cliff. Folks, this is why we do need to have a camera on Jerome. I love you guys. Because his face was something to behold right there.
    66:11
    He cocked his head off the set a little bit, too, when he said that. All right, I'm going to go. Number two. My number two. Ryan Cooper's triumphant return.
    66:20
    Okay, go ahead. All right, my number two. I love you, brother. Yeah. It's the best artwork package. Probably behind Fathom in the history of pinball.
    66:33
    Which is? Oh, Paragon. Easily Paragon. That's a good game. But is that a value? What is the price on that?
    66:42
    Nope, this was $1,600. $1,600? I stuck with under two grand. So Paragon. No, super cool. Riding the tiger or the lion or whatever with the big-breasted woman laying there. Oh, no. It's actually Paul Fierce and his wife, by the way. Oh. Who? The artist. You just ruined that image for me. I doubt that's Paul Ferris. I don't know. He used to be a bodybuilder, I guess. So did I.
    67:10
    Yeah, no, for that reason only. No, it's a good game. It's a beautiful game. I love the look of it. It demands you to play it. I actually saw that one. It's one of my favorite Bally's ever. Does Dave have that one?
    67:26
    Not at his house, but he has one. Of course he does. Dave's fostering that around the world with all of his pinheads. He's got one that's in the process of being restored. Oh, okay. Got it. He said. Well, if he wants to sell it, talk to Drew so he can put it in my basement. Well, it was $1,500. He's my sugar daddy. Now when he restores it, it's like, what, $4,500? I don't know, whatever. I don't know.
    67:53
    All right. So, Drew, number one, buddy. Number one. This one you can have for less than $2,000. Oh, I think we had the same number one. I had a chance to buy this one. Yep. And now I'm looking for one. Yep. And this is truly on my list. I'm sure it's the same one. F14. Boom. Mine too. Yes. Mine too. I could have bought one for $1,500 last year. I just didn't. I don't know why because I'm a fucking idiot.
    68:21
    And now I'm looking at them and I'm like, yeah. Easy, Kathleen. easy sorry but no everyone you see you know they're they're like said between 1500 and 2200 uh lots of uh uh info out there how to fix them how to restore them because they they obviously made a lot of these and it's a you know it's a steve richie designs everyone 14 000 of them yeah yeah a ton of them out there um but you're you're talking pin value it's best bang for your buck baby and i wouldn't recommend this as your only pin because it's fast it's brutal right super fast super brutal steve richie design but if you have more than one pin you need it in your collection i think three four four pins yeah in a four pin lineup it'd be all right you're right no because it it is unforgiving i mean i have dracula and which is awesome by the way super awesome i love it but this is more unforgiving than dracula right i would agree yeah f14 like kicks your ass up and down it rubs your face in the mud and says fuck you and does it well i plunged and then yeah i went right down the middle and then i said oh you're gonna do that to me and then i plunged again and it also went down the middle and then i think i plunged a third time and then i was like game over okay well and once again like most people get a couple $100,000 on that? Yeah. You know, Keith Elwin in the Pimberg finals gets like $3.5 million. Everyone loses their shit. Well, it was like your bonus was $3.5 million. It was stupid. It was like, what? What? You get over a million in this game, you're doing well, right? Yeah. So that's the type of game I want it because now I've played enough pinball where I can get some ass kicking. I love it. All right. So that's what I'm looking for. All right. So Swords of Fury, F14, if you guys have any, let me know. I will buy them from you. Yep, and they're going in my basement. But don't tell Ryan Kuyper. Boom. Because he'll steal them from me. And, yes, I will put – Ian, if I buy Swords of Fury or F-14, I promise you I'll put it in your basement first. All right. Sounds great. I'd rather have a Sword of the Fury, people, so go ahead. Help us get Ian a pin before he gets his whitewater. Let us know. All right. Ryan, number one, buddy.
    70:40
    This one is not a Williams. Ooh. All right. This game, when I first got into pinball passionately, I was more of a Bally Williams snob, you know, 90s. But it's because that was the era of when I was playing pinball on location. No, I agree with you 100%. So I would kind of look down on the other stuff. and there's a game that's grown on me and I think is done so well when you're playing it. The theme integration is very good. He's going to say Stargate. I am Stargate.
    71:20
    You mean one of the worst games of all time? You mean you're crazy, it's actually awesome? Oh, my God. That game... Ryan, get out. That game, I could... Get out. I'm actually shocked it's not a Williams game. It is awesome. It's great. What? It's great. Were you playing the same game? Yes. I don't think you were, though, because Stargate's awesome. I'm putting this ball in this stupid pyramid, and I go, oh, I like that shot. Other than that. No, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, I put it in a pyramid, and then the rest, shit. Nah, dude, it's awesome. You got to hit the guys to open up the orbits, which is just like in the movie. Wait, wait, this is your number one value pin of all time. It's not my number one. I just, that's the order I hit them as they came to my head. This is the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. You need to come prepared. Oh, yeah, true. Jesus Christ. We don't do stuff that's unprepared here. I'm sorry. Sloppiest podcast on the internet. Do you think we come here and do this unprepared, Ryan? Are you kidding me? Have you met us? How many drinks are you in?
    72:23
    Six. But who's coming? Yeah, that bottle's good. No, Stargate is a looker. I'll give you that. I like the Pyramid Shop. I think what's cool about how the pyramid opens up and the little ship comes out, I like how you have to collect the crystals. Ryan, I don't know that we can be friends anymore. Oh, shush. You're fine, Drew. You can take it. It's an awesome game. Really? Yeah. Okay. There's some good Gottliebs. We're going to have to go and play it again, Drew. Dennis Creasel, please email us at foremanathepyramid.gmail.com. Let us know about your Gottliebs and how much you'll sell them for, because we think we can get, like, four for a dime. No, there's some Gottliebs that we'll get. We'll go to Bounce. We'll play. There are a few.
    73:05
    Really? Yeah. Now, I will admit, if I had to pick Gottliebs, the bulk of them would be like System 80s.
    73:14
    You're speaking Chinese to me. System 80. No, what is that? Give me an example of a System 80. I guess Alien Star. Okay. No, no, that one's cool. I get it. That was solid state. I mean, that'd be the bulk of the air of the games I would like, besides the EMs. But as far as System 3s go, Stargate's a really, really good game. And what, do you believe it's like The Simpsons?
    73:43
    The shots are reminiscent. I think Dave makes a good point about that after looking at it. Yeah, no, exactly. That was the thing. I was like, oh, I suppose there are some similar shots. Yeah, I get it. But I mean, they're different. But the theme integration in that game I think is really good because you have to hit the orbits to open up to make those heads come up which is just like those helmets they had in the movie i didn't even know there's heads in that game you have to collect the crystals like there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of diverters in the ramps like there's a lot going on yeah there's this local place that i actually go to a bit and i play it a bit so this isn't me just being drunk drew like i've played this game sober many times it is him being drunk drew don't don't don't let Don't let him fool you He's drunk You guys love me Well I am drunk But Jesus I mean I'm drunk every day Well It's the drink of Zip Gottliebs in general Have a Get a bad rap They do Well you know what I like Gladiators is a great game Okay Thank you No uh Gar Nelson at the Garkade Has a Gladiators I've played that I enjoy that game I enjoy that better than Stargate That's all I'm saying Um Gladiators is a good game though Yeah, totally. Fair enough. I would say my favorite System 3s would be Gladiators, Stargate being number one, and then throwing Arena, I guess. What does the Stargate go for?
    75:07
    I want to say $25,000 to $3,000. There's a lot of stuff going on in that game, so I can see that because of the amount of... The thing to me is when you look at it, to me it doesn't look like a Gottlieb. Fair enough, except for the flippers that... Well, the flippers that say Gottlieb on them. and you could trap anything on them. But when you look at all the wire ramps and all the stuff going on, that does not feel like a Gottlieb to me. Would you own one? I would. Okay. I would. Would you own one over an F-14? Yes. 23 to 2600. Here's the reason my taste and my opinion and appreciation has changed because the real reason is going to Pinnberg and having to play. There are certain games I had to play that normally I'm like, ugh, I can't have to play this. But when you have to play it competitively, your appreciation totally changes into the 180. Because now you're playing for a reason. It's not just for fun. And a game that you would look down on, all of a sudden now it's got you. Because you're being forced to play it competitively. Fair enough. I can appreciate that. Drew? Challenge. We're going to Bounce Milwaukee. and we're going to play Stargate for an hour. No other game. Oh, boy. And we're not leaving until we get this straight. Nice, boy.
    76:30
    We've got to straighten this out. Can I drink while I'm doing it? Yeah, the bar's right next to it. We could actually reach over and get a drink. There really is a bar right next to it. I love it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's the best game ever. There's other games that are much, much better. I'm not backpedaling. You're being real. You said you would own this game, though. If one came up and the price was right and it was in good shape, yeah, $2,500 you'd buy one. I would seriously consider that, yeah. Okay. Ryan and his buddy Dave, our buddy Dave, are doing on TurboGrafx-7. Ooh, please tell us. Switch, because they kind of changed up a little bit of their format. And if you haven't been tuning in to TurboGrafx-7's Twitch page, you're missing out because now it's like a history lesson. I wouldn't go that far. It's a history lesson, bro. So we're talking about lots of Stargate. Just a little background on how this all happened. You know, Dave Brennan, Brennan98 on Pinside. You can look him up and look at his collection on there. Moved down the street from me at the beginning of the year. And obviously because we're both in the pinball, that's kind of how he had contacted me through Pinside.
    77:38
    And he saw that I was streaming, and he was like, oh, I got all these games we can stream. I'm like, oh, cool. Well, he got like 50. and at the time they got all these games yeah like 50 and at the time the only game we both had was Metallica which now I'm getting rid of and now the only game we have is Magic Castle yes his is beautiful sorry does he like Metallica? oh yeah I think was that one of the first games he got? it's weird because he has all these solid states he's into like the horror themes and he has Metallica. That's one of his only modern games and he loves it. As far as modern games goes, it's that, Alice Cooper, TNA, and everything. He's got some 90s Bally Williams and a lot of early solid state, like the Stearns and the Ballys and Zachary Williams. It's very interesting that some of the only modern games he has is Metallica. Yeah.
    78:41
    But anyway, you know, I've streamed the same, you know, eight games forever because I don't usually take my rig anymore because it's a lot of work. And he's like, oh, I can stream my stuff. Well, he's got, you know, at the time I didn't know really what he had. Well, it's all this cool early solid state. Some of it's very rare. Like, he's got, like, five or six spookies. Not spookies.
    79:04
    Zachariah's. And he's got, like, Robot. Zachariah or Zachariah? It's technically Zachariah if you want to pronounce it the Italian style. If you want to Americanize it. But we all say Zachariah.
    79:18
    He's got all the early sterns everybody wants, like Meteor, Quicksilver, Sea Witch, Stargazer, all that stuff. All the ballets everyone wants, like Fathom and Skateball and Centaur and all that stuff. so it was kind of one of those things where it's like well why would I keep streaming the same 8 games that I have when you have this gigantic collection we can just play one game a week and go through it so that's kind of what we've been doing and you know having guests come if there's time or we're coming soon folks yep so they'll Drew and Ian will be on we just had Eric Kripke on last week what did you guys stream with Eric Kripke Farfalla another Zacharia which is a you know that's a game that's a perfect example of the theme you know butterflies and rainbows me but the gameplay is very fun so it's kind of what we're doing it's just one of those things that just wasn't planned it's just hey moved in down the street from the guy who made all these games let's stream them so it's kind of how it all just kind of fell into place it's like hey wife we're going to get divorced and I'm just going to do this I don't know about that True.
    80:34
    Jesus Christ. But, no, what I like about it is it is like a little bit more of a history lesson. It's all solid state stuff. They give a little bit more of, like, the rule sets. We try to. Kind of the breakdown of the game. Dave takes, you know, meticulous care of these machines. They're beautiful. Ryan's got them lit up perfectly. It's fantastic to watch. It's good. It's awesome. And then to watch them, they do a fantastic job. and Ian and I will be there we will be there for one we promise somehow someway Ian's writing down the part where I yawned I'll be totally transparent it's been a long week but here we are alrighty alrighty Drew I love you buddy that's it let's wrap her up Jesus oh boy blame the booze alright well I think it's time to wrap it up don't you guys I totally can't.
    81:36
    You're touching it. Jesus Christ. This is why nobody needs to watch this. You need a piece of tape like mine? I think so. Just hold it to your mouth. That's what she said. Oh.
    81:56
    Alright, well, let's try that all over again. Guys, let's wrap it up. It was wonderful. Thank you very much, Ryan, for being here. Thanks for having me. Ryan's triumphant return.
    82:07
    I promise you you'll never hear that again, folks. Nope. I apologize. You'll hear it 100 more times. Sorry. It's happening. All right. For those of you just joining us, Drew's eyes are completely closed now. My eyes are closed all the time. That's my trademark.
    82:24
    I'm a Chinese Canadian. All right. Beautiful. That's great. But thank you. So watch Ryan over at TurboGrafx7 On Twitch Thank you again sir Thank you Ryan for being here Thanks for having me as always Alright well thank you guys for listening You can email us at Poremanspinball at gmail.com Or like us on Facebook The Poremanspinball Podcast Drew do you have any words You look like you're ready to say some shit I love you guys I'm just so thankful Oh, can we read those couple of Pinside Love? We got a little bit of mailbag.
    83:06
    Maybe not. No? Edit, edit, edit. I don't care. We're not doing it. Okay, next time. I don't know. Thank you.