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Ep 81 - Greg Bone and the Pinball News!

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·54m 48s·analyzed·Dec 4, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Greg Bone discusses pinball news, Twippies preparations, and speculation on American Pinball's unannounced third title.

Summary

Greg Bone joins Special When Lit to discuss the pinball industry, covering news from Spooky, American Pinball, Stern, and Deep Root. The conversation includes details about the upcoming Twippies awards ceremony at Texas Pinball Festival in March, speculation about American Pinball's third unreleased title, and industry updates on code releases and merchandise.

Key Claims

  • Spooky Pinball is preparing for their next game release with all preparations ongoing but details kept secret

    high confidence · Dr. John from Spooky Pinball update segment

  • Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle experiences periodic resets at end of game due to memory cache clearing and will be fixed in next code update

    high confidence · Spooky Pinball correspondent report

  • American Pinball pin number three will be unveiled at Texas Pinball Festival in March

    high confidence · Joe Balser announcement on The Super Awesome Pinball Show

  • Stern released limited-edition R2-D2 topper as 500-piece sequential run at $750 MSRP

    high confidence · Stern correspondent Craig Bobby

  • Deep Root prototypes were played at Houston Arcade Expo with generally positive reception

    high confidence · Deep Root correspondent Chris Chandler

  • Straight Down the Middle has over 5,000 YouTube followers

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell opening remarks

  • Greg Bone consumed significant alcohol during the second annual Twippies to manage stress from last-minute production issues

    high confidence · Greg Bone's own account and confirmation from Ken Cromwell/Bill Webb

  • Stern released Jurassic Park code V.95 containing new wizard modes, bug fixes, and enhancements

    high confidence · Stern correspondent Craig Bobby

  • Black Knight Sword of Rage vinyl album released on burnt orange vinyl at $25.99 MSRP

    high confidence · Stern correspondent Craig Bobby

  • American Pinball rumors include Sherlock Holmes, Valkyries, Poker Run, and Robin Hood as potential titles

    medium confidence · Greg Bone speculation based on past rumors

Notable Quotes

  • “Zach learned very early on how to set me up for certain things, and without that setup, I just don't flow very well...I'm more good with just color commentary off the cuff.”

    Greg Bone @ ~5:30 — Reveals the creative dynamic and partnership structure of Straight Down the Middle

  • “I think he considers himself like one of the most hated guys in pinball, like maybe next to Kaneda. But like, I love the dude, man. Like, I think he's great. He's good for the hobby.”

    Greg Bone @ ~7:00 — Addresses community perception of Zach Meny and defends his role in the hobby

  • “Zach is sort of the Simon Cowell of pinball. Like, he's not the protagonist necessarily like Howard Stern or anything, where he just says lewd off-the-wall things, but he's very honest in his opinion, and it might not always be the most popular opinion.”

    Greg Bone @ ~9:00 — Characterizes Zach Meny's role as a critical but honest voice in pinball media

  • “I consumed more alcohol than what I probably wanted just to be able to make it through the evening. It was a little rough.”

    Greg Bone @ ~25:00 — Candid admission about stress during second annual Twippies live production

  • “We didn't really have any time to set up...we followed Bowen Cairns. The most popular seminar of the evening...So we had maybe like 15 minutes to set up in this entire venue that we had no clue.”

    Greg Bone @ ~30:00 — Illustrates production logistics challenges for live Twippies broadcast at venue

  • “theme sales, no matter what, theme sales. You've got to have that theme. That's what resonates with people.”

    Greg Bone @ ~55:00 — Core philosophy on American Pinball's competitive positioning and what drives collector decisions

  • “I think they need a major license. I really do.”

    Greg Bone @ ~52:00 — Expresses strong opinion that American Pinball's third title should feature major IP for market competitiveness

Entities

Greg BonepersonKen CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonZach MenypersonJeff PattersonpersonJoe BalserpersonZach Sharpe MenypersonStraight Down The Middle: a pinball showorganization

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern released official R2-D2 topper for Star Wars pinball as limited 500-piece sequential production at $750 MSRP

    high · Craig Bobby correspondent report detailing topper specifications and pricing

  • ?

    code_update: Spooky Pinball Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle experiencing memory cache resets; fix incoming with next code update

    high · Dr. John Spooky correspondent confirmed periodic resets are memory dumps and intentional; fix planned

  • ?

    code_update: Stern released Jurassic Park pinball code V.95 with new wizard modes, bug fixes, and enhancements

    high · Craig Bobby correspondent detailed code update contents

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern released Black Knight Sword of Rage vinyl album on burnt orange vinyl at $25.99 MSRP

    high · Craig Bobby correspondent announced LP production and pricing

  • ?

    machine_intel: American Pinball pin number three will be officially unveiled at Texas Pinball Festival in March 2024

    high · Joe Balser announced on The Super Awesome Pinball Show; confirmed by American Pinball via Dan to Brian Kozner

  • ?

    event_signal: Third annual Twippies awards ceremony scheduled for Texas Pinball Festival March 2024; implementing preliminary voting with dropdown menus to eliminate wasted votes

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.164

0:00
This episode of the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast is dedicated in the memory of Mr. Gene Cunningham.
0:13
Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Hey, what's going on pinball land? Welcome. It's episode number 81, that's 8-1 of Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm Ken Cromwell. And I am Bill Webb. We've got a special guest in store for all the listeners today. Before we introduce him, I'd like to see what's going on with Bill. What's happening? Bill Webb. Nothing, man. Typical Monday. Just living the dream. How about you? Yeah, the same here. Actually, a virus showed up. House of Horrors is here. FedEx Freight figured out the issue and brought it back off the East Coast for the second time. And I'm looking right at it. So that's pretty exciting. But we've got kind of a special treat today. As we bring this gentleman in, he's the co-host of Straight Down the Middle, a pinball show. He is a renowned actor all over the place. I want to introduce the one and only Mr. Greg Bone. Welcome to the Special Inlet Pinball Podcast. What's up, Greg?
1:07
Hello. How are you, fellas? Good, man. How are you, buddy? What's going on? You know, I'm doing well. This is a little change of pace.
1:15
Normally, when I'm on that Twit Podcast, it's early in the morning, so this is a nice evening with a beer.
1:22
I enjoy the change of pace. See? Now, I did not grab a beer. So full disclosure, I'm running late And I apologize for making you wait a little bit So being late, I don't know if you're used to that on Twip or not But I forgot to crack a beer, man That's what I forgot to do On Twip, it's a solid two hours On SDTM, it's a solid two hours So you being about five minutes late is very punctual Oh, very sweet All right, good times That's not a big deal So a lot of people want to know What is it like to work with Zach And Zach working with you on Straight Down the Middle of Pinball Show and when can we expect more content? Because, I mean, this show's been wildly popular. You've got, what, over 5,000 followers on YouTube. And it seems like if anybody's in pinball or these shows and they know about pinball content and pinball content providers, they know about Greg Bone and they know about Zach Menny and they know about Straight Down the Middle.

“above so many other manufacturers—almost any other manufacturer—they encompass a theme better than anyone”

Bill Webb @ ~65:00 — Praises American Pinball's thematic execution and suggests licensing strategy mismatch

  • “all is quiet in the Spooky factory...All is getting prepared for the next game release. So not a lot of news coming out. It's all hush-hush.”

    Dr. John (Spooky correspondent) @ ~35:00 — Indicates Spooky is in development phase with upcoming title in pipeline

  • “The wait is finally over. Yes, two and a half years after the first release...Stern has, this past week, started selling the official R2-D2 topper”

    Craig Bobby (Stern correspondent) @ ~40:00 — Marks major accessory release milestone for Star Wars pinball machine

    • Special When Lit Pinball Podcast
    organization
    This Week in Pinballorganization
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
    Star Wars Pinballgame
    Jurassic Park Pinballgame
    Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
    Houdinigame
    Oktoberfestgame
    Razagame
    Ed Vander Veenperson
    Christopher Franchiperson
    Christian Lineperson

    high · Greg Bone detailed voting system changes decided by Twippy Committee after hours of discussion

  • ?

    machine_intel: Spooky Pinball next title in active development with release preparations ongoing but details remain confidential

    medium · Dr. John Spooky correspondent stated 'all is getting prepared for the next game release' but 'all hush-hush'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Deep Root Pinball prototypes played at Houston Arcade Expo with generally positive reception; full unveiling planned for Texas Pinball Festival March

    high · Chris Chandler Deep Root correspondent reported prototype playtesting and confirmed March unveiling schedule

  • ?

    content_signal: Straight Down the Middle maintains 5,000+ YouTube followers with 5+ years of consistent production

    high · Ken Cromwell opener stated '5,000 followers on YouTube' and show running for 'over 5 years'

  • ?

    event_signal: Second annual Twippies transitioned to live broadcast with significant logistical challenges and last-minute production setup; perceived as success despite 30-minute setup window

    high · Greg Bone detailed live shift decision, venue unknowns, equipment constraints, 30-minute setup time, and successful execution

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Zach Meny perceived by some as controversial/disliked but valued for honest, critical commentary; Greg Bone defends his role as beneficial to the hobby

    high · Greg Bone acknowledged perception of Meny as 'one of the most hated guys in pinball' but countered with praise for his contribution

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Industry consensus among hosts that major IP licensing is critical for sales success; American Pinball's original/smaller themes underperform vs. major licensed properties

    high · Greg Bone, Bill Webb consensus: 'theme sales...that's what resonates with people'; repeated emphasis on need for major licenses like Star Wars, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park vs. Houdini/Oktoberfest

    • 2:16
    Well, first of all, I have to know how honest of an answer you want. Well, let's do two answers. Let's do the politically correct answer and then let's do the brutally honest answer. How does that sound? No, man. Okay, so not to get too sappy and corny with it, but actually working with Zach is fantastic just because from the beginning of Straight Down the Middle, and I've said this before, we've always been able to riff off each other. Zach learned very early on how to set me up for certain things, and without that setup, I just don't flow very well. I can't do something like what you do. I can't get on here and just flow and rattle and go with a show and make it flow. I'm more good with just color commentary off the cuff. And without Zach, I don't have him to set me up for that. So it's very much a tandem, a team thing. And I've kind of tried stuff with other people, and it flows good and it's fun and everything. Yeah, I've heard you on other shows. But they just don't know how to set me up for the good. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so it just works in that aspect. So, and, you know, we just, even in personal life, like we've just learned to like mix and mingle each other's personalities. And like, we actually started to bring out the best of each other in like the last three years of being friends. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, dude, it's cool. Like, I think he considers himself like one of the most hated guys in pinball, like maybe next to Kaneda. But like, I love the dude, man. Like, I think he's great. He's good for the hobby. Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting take. I think as you guys have increased your exposure, I mean, naturally there are going to be those that the people that oppose you a bit is going to also increase. But I haven't noticed anything exponentially as far as like a negative goes. I think, if anything, you guys are on the tips of everybody's tongues more so than, you know, in the bottom of everybody's toilets, so to speak. Yeah, it is. There's always, you know, I've always got something odd to say and rambunctious. Zach's always got something a little controversial to say. So, you know, I think we do kind of stay on the tips of people's tongues, you know. So we were talking actually, you know, and me and Zach the other day. And Zach, we came to the conclusion that Zach is sort of the Simon Cowell of pinball. Like, he's not the protagonist necessarily like Howard Stern or anything. where he just says lewd off-the-wall things, but he's very honest in his opinion, and it might not always be the most popular opinion, sort of like Simon Cowell. So that's where I'm going to start referring to him as, is the Simon Cowell. Well, if Zach is the Simon Cowell, who are you?
    5:01
    And it doesn't have to be an American Idol. Who are you? It's Allie Mandel. We're going with America's Got Talent. I like it. I hate the germs.
    5:10
    Slightly funny. yeah you're going bold you were definitely not a good guy uh i know that now you guys have your second annual twippies uh well actually your third annual twippies will be coming up at texas pinball festival uh next year in march are you guys already prepping for that are you guys preparing for uh to knock it out we are already preparing uh preparations have started uh and we're changing it up this year so jeff if uh any of your listeners haven't already read it. This week in pinball, we are changing it up for the Twippies this year where that we are going to do a preliminary voting. And what that is, is we're going to do all the right ends at that point. And then on the actual Twippy voting, we're going to have a drop down menu to be able to vote off of. And that way we don't have wasted votes. You know, we want as many votes to count as possible. And that drop down we're hoping will help eliminate that. And that all came from the The Twippy Committee, you know, we all voted on. We've done hours of discussion upon that. So that's kind of a big change. And then on Zach and our, my end, we, you know, we're looking to change stuff up a little bit. We want to keep the show fresh. We want to keep it, you know, invigorating. We want to make it new every year. It's obviously only so much you can do. But, you know, we want to bring a different element every year, whether it be some different videos in there, different voiceover, different voice actors, different celebrities, different appearances to host. You know, we want to try to do something different every year so that it's fun every time that you come to Texas. And see the Twippies. I was in Stern Pinball today because we're gathering audio right now for our holiday show, which usually takes place, you know, between Christmas and New Year. And I had brought up the Twippies to Stern's staff while I was there just out of conversation. and just I wasn't surprised on how it was received, but it was refreshing to hear even the employees of the manufacturers really appreciated the efforts that you guys put into the show and that, you know, they appreciate that experience, too. So good for you guys. Well, and that's very much appreciated on our end. And, you know, I think that it took, you know, the very first year that we did Twippies, you know, something that Zach fought for. Um, you know, Jeff had come up with the idea and Jeff wanted to do this on, on Twippies on the website and on Facebook and everything. And Zach had pushed for it. Zach was like, Jeff, let's, let's make this a show. Let's make this a thing. And, and, you know, Jeff kind of pushed back. I most certainly pushed back because I was like, dude, you're, you're right. You're biting off more than what we can, what we can handle. We don't have, this is going to go over. So, you know, we recorded the first Twippies in our basement. Um, it went over, it went pretty good, man. We got a pretty good following. People felt legit about it. Zach crushed all of our videos and stuff and everything was fantastic. Then, you know, year two of the Twippies comes around and I'm feeling confident. I'm feeling good about it. We know what to expect. And what the hell does Zach hit me with? Live. Let's do it live. Yeah, that's a lot of stress. Live. Yep. We don't know the venue. We're doing everything over the phone to try to get, you know, schematics and floor plan and everything else of the venue of how everything's going to be set up. We have no control over the audio. We have no control over the cameras. We know nothing. We're trying to piece together lighting. We're trying to do all of this stuff from Indiana. And then Zach's going to drive it to Texas. And we have all of our camera stuff, all of our Twitch stuff, all of our audio stuff in someone else's hands that we have no control over, that we've only communicated with over the phone. And these guys haven't had your equipment to practice on either. So, I mean, there's that learning curve from them receiving your equipment, right? Yes, there was nothing, man. And so then we had to find somebody, okay, if their audio and video people are not going to work cameras, do we find somebody to work cameras? Luckily, their audio and video guy did. But then we needed somebody to work all the cue music, all of that stuff. So luckily, Joel Reeves, who's a gigantic pinball fan, who did the spooky bump in the night. No, it wasn't bump in the night. Sorry, Joel. I screwed that up. Was that Joel that did that? Yeah. Yeah, things that go bump in the night, right? We sure did. Joel and Dana did. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Things that go bump in the night. I'll edit that off to make it sound like we know exactly what we're talking about. Sure, fuck off, Joel.
    9:35
    But so we found Joel, and Joel worked all of our audio for us and everything, and we hauled all the lights down there. We had a podium shipped down there. I mean, we didn't have a podium. We had to have a podium shipped to Texas. and I don't know maybe Zach brought the podium but we had to get the podium and ship it down there so we had nothing and we still we see the video or the venue still really don't know what we're going to do because we had no pre-setup we couldn't really do anything we sort of set up lights and tried those so you know we didn't really have any time set up and you know there was other seminars and stuff going on at the time and luckily for us we follow Bowen Cairns the most popular seminar of the evening. And Bowen is just killing it on Alice Cooper and goes over slightly in our time slot. So, you know, which was all good. You know, he was doing his thing and he was, you know, dominating that, had a good crowd and everything. But that left us maybe like 15 minutes to set up in this entire venue that we had no clue, that we'd never seen before, never set anything up in. so uh we ended up running a little late and had maybe a total setup time of about 30 minutes to do lighting yet camera positions because we were initially going to use this camera that was mounted up high it just didn't look right it wasn't capturing well for what we wanted so we had to run like a little 922 down on a tall tripod to try to capture the main camera so we set all of this up um you know we had you know ryan from chicago gaming was helping us we had all these people will odin like we had all these people that just like helped us set up as quickly as we could and dude the second one like it i thought it came together pretty damn well to have like 30 minutes in a place yeah i would not have known honestly i thought you would have that room set up all day just in anticipation for the uh the ceremony that night so that's what that makes it even a little bit more impressive to me actually oh dude yeah it was insane and that's what like you know we had no prep time zach had just become a distributor and you know his hands were full at his booth so we had just very little prep time to get prepared for all of our you know all of our guest speakers and everything else all of our presenters and dude it was just it was it was a cluster from the beginning but it turned out well and we're going to this third one we feel like we're decently prepped. Well, yeah, and we're going to get into the pinball news here in a second, but there was a rumor that I had heard that you were consuming some alcohol during that evening, and I wonder if you could comment on that there, Greg. Ken, I consumed more alcohol than what I probably wanted just to be able to make it through the evening. It was a little rough. It was. Myself and Bill, we were, and we appreciate it, we were asked to present the Best Lights show. and when we went backstage right before we were getting ready to go on i looked at jeff patterson and jeff looked like he you know he was he was in the groove but he was a little on edge and then i just saw a plethora of miller light cans and i looked at jeff and i was like man you're really pounding him and he's like that's not me that's greg i was like oh snap and greg's out on the stage all night it was awesome it was fun well and we saw you guys like an hour beforehand uh right outside of the venue and jack looked stressed out of his mind yeah i can imagine worried like a you know actually pretty calm man like he he he what was going on yeah he did look calm but it was a facade it was all a facade because that's what is hectic as everything else was do we we stood out there like when we saw you guys we had just been working on our introductions to the presenters like we had we had nothing prepped like everything that happened last year there's those damn special with it guys that like the last thing i want to do is talk to these guys right now i'm trying to get prepped well we were we were prepping outside we're trying to write stuff down and we actually had fans come up and want their picture taken with us and stuff yeah we couldn't tell them no so like they're going to chat to us about games and we like we literally have like an hour to be able to get prepped and get ready for this show And we like it was it was awful but it was amazing all at the same time It tied together awesome, man. You guys you guys killed it. And that's not me saying this because you're a buddy and you're on our show. Like legitimately, it was in pinball. The thing that I felt it was like the most important thing I ever felt like I was a part of. Yeah. As far as pinball goes. So for what it's worth, man. Yeah, it was killer. I really enjoyed it. You know, and Ed had just said that that was going to be one of the biggest things at Texas Pinball Festival this year was Twippies, which really made Ed Vander Veen, who runs the show there at TPF that you guys know, he said that that was going to be one of the biggest things at TPF this year. And that made us feel good because I think that we really had to do a lot of convincing to Ed last year to let us host these because I think that he was very reluctant and with all right to be so, to let us do that last year. So it really felt good for him to actually be so excited for the Twippies to come back this year and to host us. So that felt good, really good. So if you haven't made the decision already to go to Texas Pinball Festival, consider the fact that the Twippies, which is a This Week in Pinball yearly awards, will be held and hosted there by Greg Bone and Zach Menne. And brought to you by This Week in Pinball and Jeff Patterson, The collaboration of the three of those gentlemen and everybody else that helps to make the show possible is what makes it fun and exciting. But how about we get into some of the pinball news, Greg? Yes. All right.
    15:15
    Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz. Time for this week's spooky pinball update with Dr. John for special. When lit, all is quiet in the spooky factory. I don't think they're actually doing anything at the moment. Now Charlie's going to jump down the microphone and kill me for saying that. But all's getting prepared for the next game release. So not a lot of news coming out. It's all hush-hush. One thing that's cropped up every now and again is on Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. The game will do a reset at the end of the game every now and again. I'm not sure the actual number of games it takes for it to happen. But do not be alarmed. that is a memory dump where they're clearing the cache of info that is building up on the memory RAM and is part of the process. Apparently this is going to be fixed up with the next code update, so do not be concerned about low voltage drops or anything when your Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle resets at the end of a game. Hoping to hear more now that it's December on the new game, and we'll see what comes out of the spooky factory soon. Thanks for listening, and bye-bye. Hey, this is Kaz with American Pinball Update. Joe Balser was on the Super Awesome Pinball Show on their very first episode, and he revealed that pin number three would be unveiled at Texas Pinball Festival in March. I reached out to Dan for some additional information, and that is the scheduled plan that American Pinball will be releasing more information as we get closer to March. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kozner. This might be the droid you're looking for. Black Knight Goes Vinyl and Jurassic Park Code Updates. Hey guys, Craig here again, your special and lit Stern News Correspondent. Well, the wait is finally over. Yes, two and a half years after the first release of their wildly popular Star Wars pin, Stern has, this past week, started selling the official R2-D2 topper that fans of the game have patiently been waiting for. Produced as a 500-piece, limited-edition accessory, these toppers will be sequentially numbered and come mounted on an LE plaque. The topper itself is a shoulders bust of the famous droid, whose head will rotate and be interactive with lighting effects. So far, no recent videos of the topper are available, however posts from various Stern distributors say that a video of the topper in action will be available soon. With Stern limiting production to 500 pieces, it will sell with an MSRP of approximately $750 plus shipping, creating quite a stir in the force indeed. However, despite the steep price tag, something tells me this will definitely be an in-demand item this holiday season. So if you're interested, be sure to contact your local Stern distributor to get your name on that list. And not to be outdone, Stern is also releasing the Black Knight Sword of Rage Fire Edition album. The LP, which is produced on a burnt orange colored vinyl, features original music from the latest entry in the Black Knight series of pinball games and can be purchased from the Stern website for $25.99 plus shipping. And lastly, new code. Stern has posted Jurassic Park code V.95 for all available models. This code contains multiple new wizard modes, bug fixes, enhancements, and additional polish and can be downloaded via old school Ethernet from the Stern website. That's all for this week. For Special One Lit, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Hello Pinball Land. This is Chris Chandler signing on as the Deep Root correspondent for Special One Lit. As we all know, Deep Root emerged from stealth mode very briefly at the Houston Arcade Expo. bringing the Raza prototypes for folks to play. You did hear that they were prototypes, right? And we also witnessed the birth of Rampgate. But despite all this, the general consensus from those who were there to actually play the game was pretty positive. Sadly, while Deep Root giveth, Deep Root also taketh away. Immediately after that reveal, playtest, whatever you want to call it, Deep Root has gone back underground, citing their true unveiling in March. So in the interim, I will keep you up to date on anything newsworthy in the world of Deep Root, but only as events warrant. I will work my connections and dig up any Deep Root goodness I can, so hopefully there will be plenty of exciting news to share prior to March. When you do hear from me, I will keep it reasonably fact-based. You won't hear unfounded theories about Deep Root's finances and the like here. Speculation is fun and all, but we'll let that happen elsewhere. All right, so always good hearing from the correspondents, and I want to welcome aboard our newest correspondent. And as you heard, he's covering Deep Root Pinball. His name is Chris Chandler. We're going to have Chris on the show at some point so we can kind of let you know his tie-ins with Deep Root. But it's exciting to get another potential manufacturer covered by somebody out there in pinball land. But let's go first to American Pinball. They have announced, I guess, via the Super Awesome Pinball Show, which is the newest podcast by Christopher Franchi at Vander Veen, who runs Texas Pinball Festival and Christian Line. And Christian is of Miss Penn's Pinball Podcast fame as Dr. Penn. So Joe Balster goes on there and says, hey, we're bringing our next game to TPF. And I wanted to ask the three of you, or actually the two of you, I'll count myself, what do we think that game is going to be? And is Texas Pinball Festival the place to reveal it, knowing that Deep Root is going to be there? also, I think, giving the full reveal of Raza. Greg, do you have any idea what this title is going to be for American Pinball? You know, I do not. I was privy to a little inside information about how the pin is going to be structured and so forth, but I was not privy enough to know what the title was. going off of old rumors when you got into Sherlock Holmes and... We had Sherlock Holmes, we had Valkyries, Poker Run, and Robin Hood. Those were the four. If I had to take a pick mainly based on preference and what I think would sell the best, I would have to go with Sherlock Holmes.
    21:17
    What do you think, Bill? I second that vote. Yeah, I do too. I just I'm wondering now if that if all four of those titles have been abandoned as far as possibilities or if that's going to be down the road, because I think what a lot of people have been discussing is the fact that they'd like to see something maybe of a pinball of a licensed theme coming from American pinball. And as we've seen in the past where people have asked for original themes, the original themes don't seem to really hold their water going up against some of these juggernaut licenses. So is it in American Pinball's best interest to come out with a Houdini pinball machine, which was kind of a loose license IP, and then Oktoberfest, which again, not like a major license or IP? Do they come out again with something else that is not major? Sherlock Holmes being something that can be applied for, but I mean it's not Star Wars. It's not Spider-Man. It's not Jurassic Park or Elvira. It's not Wizard of Oz. Maybe we're all wrong, dude. and it's going to be Van Halen. Who knows? No, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I just am wondering if this third pin, if it's worth the risk or the gamble to not have it a major license.
    22:29
    I think they need a major license. I really do. I'm still the biggest advocate that theme sales, no matter what, theme sales. You've got to have that theme. That's what resonates with people. That's what keeps a pin in their collection. That's what makes them hang on to it a little longer. um do i think sherlock holmes is a bust no not necessarily if that's what it is um because i thought houdini was good i thought houdini was just a little too tough for people i still personally to this day love that game and i'll never say otherwise but i think it still alienates a lot of people and they just don't have as close a connection when it's something like a film or a band or something that they can associate so many memories or, you know, different nostalgic things with. Sure. I mean, where do you, is that where you kind of stand or what's your, where are you at with? Yeah, I think we kind of discussed that. I mean, there's two ways to look at it. One, if you walk up to a pin on location and there's a row of pinball machines, normally I would say that the person that is casually in the pinball will gravitate to what they are familiar with license-wise. So if you see, you know, and this is just for an example, but if you were to see Houdini next to a Jurassic Park and you're the casual pinball person, you're probably going up to play Jurassic Park first most of the time. And then when you get something that's in the house and you're going to be playing this daily or you're going to be playing this for days, weeks, months, or years, you kind of want something that is timeless for yourself and is well-recognized by your friends and family that come over.
    24:03
    Where Houdini's not a horrible choice, and I don't think Oktoberfest was a horrible choice. Personally, I like the theme Oktoberfest. I think it's a fun kind of party pin. I can just see that I'm not in the majority. I think I'm in the minority when it comes to having appreciation for those themes. What do you think, Bill? You know what? I'm kind of on the fence on that. I think out of all the rumor titles, I think Sherlock Holmes and Watson is the strongest theme out of all of them. I think you can do the most with that, and I think it fits well with the Houdini theme, but I mean, I would like to see them get a decent license. because you know the the strong suit of american pinball is that they they theme games whatever theme that they have they theme it very well like houdini had so much history there was so much stuff in there artistically and historically everything that that you know kugler and balser did so much research that they encompassed houdini so well that's a great point the same thing with oktoberfest like i'm almost like i want to see what they do with a license like i want to see them capture that film or that band like i i think that they you know above so many other manufacturers almost any other manufacturer they encompass a theme better than anyone and i want to see what they do with a major license that's an excellent point because pull that off right with with the level of of being as meticulous as they can as far as paying homage to the to the theme and making sure that it's as accurate as possible it makes you wonder like some of those some of that efforts being not appreciated as much because of of the themes that have been selected but again to your point something with that has a major thing because we always think about you know uh and i keep coming back to jurassic park hey it was it's not the movie it's this that's the other thing and it's and it's it's not what we were expecting but you would almost expect american pinball to be as as accurate and to you know attain as many of the license or assets as possible in order to make the uh the pinball machine a true representation of the theme that they were covering oh i completely agree and that's why i think if they do if it is another no theme um i think it's still going to be good i think it's gonna be a great game um i'm just i'm curious if if either way of how that it's going to shoot i'm wondering how balser is going to to change this game up i mean you know no joe has uh he doesn't really have a particular style he's no he does not he's all over the place yes very much so and you know i think that that again i love houdini but i think he knows that Those shots were tight.
    26:49
    I still thought Oktoberfest was, it shot well. It shot very good. But I'm curious about how he's going to change it up. And if he's going to make this more of an all-around pinball machine, maybe something the way Elvira is, where it's more friendly to shoot for anyone, but then rely on Josh's code, almost like Elvira is on Lyman, to really bring the depth and bring the adventure for the hardcore pinball players. I want to see the approach on the artwork too on this third pin Now Joel DeGuzman is the artist that had recently done the American Pinball the new logo Amy Pin Now from what I hearing he not on the third game But I wonder if we see him in the fourth offering from American Pinball. But considering the fact that he is not on that third pin here that's going to be announced at Texas Pinball Festival, I wonder if some of the critique that's been received by the general pinball public will be taken into consideration and then executed in the next offering? I really think so because you've already seen that at Chicago with Oktoberfest. They'd already updated the graphics. They had somebody doing some more animations, cleaning stuff up. And just doing that, Oktoberfest looked like a totally different game. So I think that American Pinball has listened. I think that they have heard people's cries. and and honestly like i think that that's all they really really needed besides maybe a license is just bringing everything together making a really cohesive pinball machine that being said i i'm very much in the minority but i still thought houdini was a complete game i thought the i thought all the animations fit i thought the sound package i thought the art looked good I kind of thought that that was a hell of a first showing Oktoberfest was plagued to me by the art a little bit definitely by all the animations so I think this one, I think third time's a charm I think they're going to come out strong I think they're going to have a very good package this time of a cohesive game Absolutely, now when we look at Jersey Jack Pinball I've been looking on social media this past week It's the week of Thanksgiving, and I think a lot of people are on vacation and getting ready to kind of pack it in for a long weekend, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and maybe even Monday. You've got Jack Winary from Jersey Jack Pinball, who is out in the wild delivering and setting up Willy Wonka Collector Edition's pinball machines. Did you see this, Bill? Oh, yeah. I thought it was awesome. I thought it was pretty cool, too, man. The guy posted a picture, too, of Jack in his kitchen eating a snack or something, too. I loved it. Now, Greg, let me ask you, if you had ordered a pinball machine and you were expecting delivery, and your last new in box was Jurassic Park. Now, you had Zach Menne from Flippin' Out Pinball deliver that to you, but what if Gary Stern had hopped out and just kind of said, hey, what's going on? Give me some donuts and let's set up your Jurassic Park. I mean, is that an experience that you think is going to happen from a manufacturer when you order a pinball machine, especially these days? I wouldn't expect it at all. I wouldn't expect you to hear from Stern, JJP, anybody to show up at my door. Neither would I. It's like Publisher's Clearinghouse.
    30:08
    You don't expect Gary Stern to snap at you and say, hey, where's the 5-ace wrench at? Oh, no. I could see him rolling up with a bottle of vodka, though, and watching you set up the pinball machine. That'd be kind of awesome. Now that's what I'd want. Yeah. I just don't want my pinball machine set up and you bounce out. I want you to sit around for a few drinks. I think it was cool, though, because, I mean, you know that it's got to be a tremendous burden off of a lot of the staff at Jersey Jack Pimmel to now have this collector edition that's not even on the line, but now it's like getting out there and it's getting delivered to the buyers. That's why I can appreciate the enthusiasm for the company's founder to get out there and really get with the people and set these things up. I just thought it was kind of a classy move and a fun move and something that, you know, I don't, again, I don't expect all these manufacturers to send staff out, but I think it's a pleasant surprise. When you said, you know, publishing clearinghouse sweepstakes, as our favorite movie says, yeah, if I woke up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be any more surprised than I am right now. Well, you know, it's great PR. You know, that game was pushed back a little bit. People want to know where their CEs were. I think it's a really good move on Jack's part to do something like that. it's it's just great publicity again like you just said it shows his enthusiasm um it shows the company's trying you know that they're getting out there that they're ready that they're sorry almost in a sense that it's taking so long ah interesting take yeah that they themselves are super pumped that it's getting out there um so i think it's a very good move on jack's part to get out there and do that i i absolutely agree as well uh we had dr john checking in over at spooky and And he's basically saying this. Listen, if after several games your Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle resets itself at the conclusion of one of those games, it's not an error. It's not a faulty board. It's literally a memory dump. The pin is programmed to do that to kind of clear the cachet. I'm actually glad that he said that because I would almost guarantee that if my game started resetting, regardless of the amount of plays that I had on it, I'd be freaking out thinking that I needed to put in a service call. So to know that that's intentional is actually kind of a breath of fresh air. I think everybody would be on the phone with the distributor. I wonder if they had a lot of calls and they're like, hey, Dr. John. Why don't you send this little bit of info out to everybody? Especially when you think about the old Williams, Valley Williams pins that had the reset issues. And that's always so hard to kind of diagnose and it's hard to figure out. You don't want that on a new pin, Greg. No, no, not at all. And you know, I still love that game. Like, that's highly on my radar. Like, I don't care what problems they have with it. Where did you first play that game? It had to be a pinball show, right? Yeah, we played it at a Cincinnati Chuck Works show. Not this past year, but the year before. Charlie was there. And Seth and we got to hang out with Charlie. And Charlie, he did a little take with us there and kind of walked us through the rules and everything. Which was honestly the first time I got to actually meet Charlie in person. And, you know, we had said some nasty things a little bit about a couple of his games. Really? We weren't certain how he was going to take to us. Sure. Mainly Zach. But, like, no. Simon Cowell. Yeah. And Simon Many. Yes, very much so. But, you know, he really took to us, and I think he understood where we were coming from with our reviews and different stuff. when we did Rob Zombie and everything. But, dude, Alice Cooper, I think they're on the right track. And it's no lie at all, no bullshit. That game is still on my radar. It's a tough pin. It's a beautiful pin. It's fun. It's got great mechs.
    33:51
    I don't know. It's got, obviously, a rocking soundtrack. I haven't noticed a big aftermarket for the game either. I'm not seeing them frequently coming up for sale, which is usually a good sign even on a game i think they did a 550 of these pins unless i'm looking in the wrong places alice cooper nightmare castle is not one that pops up frequently in my social media feeds for uh for somebody no i think you're 100 right ken and you know it's a weird thing because i think that that's a weird pin that doesn't set in the middle um it's not a pin that's just like casually like oh yeah i'd like to own that that's cool like i think it's a i want alice cooper and i like that game or it's i absolutely hate that game it's it i can't stand it like right and i think that they've fallen into the hands of the people that love them and the people that do love them do not want to let them go and i don't want them yeah i mean and charlie too i've had the pleasure of just kind of conversing with him in person and via emails and whatnot and And you can tell that he's very passionate about what he's doing. I mean, and that's one thing to be passionate, but he just kind of gets it too. Like he's open to the criticism. And to your point, it seems like they have been evolving and making changes to always improve on their last release. And I mean, at that point, what more can you really ask from a pinball company than to try to be better than their last release? You know, I 100% agree. When you take somebody that's designing their own pins and they're an enthusiast, you're going to get a few things wrong.
    35:20
    And not – Rob Zombie ended up – I actually like Rob Zombie. We were a little harsh on it. I'm going to disagree with you there. I do not like – I just don't like – it doesn't appeal to me. The theme is cool, but I just, for whatever reason, shot-wise, Rob Zombie, it just never, ever got to me. Really? I ended up actually liking – I think maybe I liked the code structure a little bit more. It was not the greatest shooting pin. Don't get me wrong. But I enjoyed it. I don't know if I enjoyed it enough to buy one. Okay. But I think Charlie learned a lot off of that. And I think going into Nightmare Castle, I think he learned a lot. And he incorporated a lot of what he learned, which was a good sign. Yeah, that's a really good sign. It is. And I think that when you see that evolution, and the pen was prettier, the play field was better. Like, just everything. The toys were better. Everything was more. Like, that's why I think he listened. And I think their next pin, aside from Scott Denise, if Charlie does another pin himself, I think it's going to be even better than Alice Cooper. And, you know, like what you said about Charlie, like Charlie does, he takes the criticism well. You know, he might be cussing everyone at home at KT and Buggs. I'm sure he is, but he doesn't play the part socially, so whatever. No, no, he doesn't. He lets you know that he heard it. He lets you know that he acknowledges that. Sure. But at the same time, like he doesn't hold a grudge at least to your face. Right, right. And he will talk to you and still give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just critiquing the game as an enthusiast. And I think what we're hearing – Which is very, very nice. Right. We're hearing now that like at least Dr. John had reported on a prior episode that he's anticipating the announcement of Scott Denise's second game to be before the end of the year.
    37:11
    What? So do you have any ideas? is do you think this is going to be a licensed theme for spooky pinball or do you think this is going to be an original theme um a la tna i think they're gonna let scott do his own thing again dude i think it's gonna be something that's uh not licensed i think it's gonna be an original theme something that that scott cooked up possibly with charlie this time um something weird they wanted to do do you think it's haunted house party because we haven't had a haunted house pinball machine in at least three weeks. You know what? I think it's a possibility. I think that they threw that out there. I mean, I think it might have a different name, but I think it might be like Haunted House. You know, it's one of those great fool you, you know, while it's sitting in front of your face sort of thing. Yeah, right.
    37:59
    The ultimate trolling. It's like sitting in front of your face. Here are some car keys. Guess what our next theme is going to be. Thank you, American. Yes, exactly. Right, right. Which would we be mad at it? so i'm gonna make a prediction what i think will be because i'm assuming so charlie's son bug uh who hosts the spooky pinball podcast and obviously is vested in the company it's a family business i'm wondering if we see bug get into the designer role and maybe charlie passes the the the torch to bug and maybe they combine together on a spooky disease or a spooky designed machine where you Yeah, Charlie and Bug together, and then Bug kind of goes on and does his own release at some point too. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing that. I like seeing fresh blood. I like the train that we have here now with coders and with the designers and fresh staff kind of coming in to kind of rejuvenate.
    38:56
    Change it up. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we're just kind of used to – and it's not a horrible thing. You know what to expect from some of the people that have been putting out the content for a long time. It's good to shake it up and get some fresh ideas. Oh, man. I 100% agree. I mean, not to disrespect any of the veterans in the business who are legends, but, I mean, you look at, you know, and I think I've said this before, Keith Elwin, brand new, man. Yeah, right. Kills it with two games. Eric Menier crushes it with pirates. That new blood is created in the last couple of years some of the greatest pins that we've ever seen. So I'm not at all opposed to seeing, you know, So Bug come in with some fresh ideas. And they're very, you know, they're family oriented. They're big on family. So, like, I could see Charlie bringing Bug in. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know if he, if Bug has the drive to want to do it yet. I don't even know. It's something that I suppose we could ask him. But it would be interesting to see how that turns out. Star Wars Topper was released this week.
    39:58
    See, Bobby's like, hey, Star Wars Topper's here. This might be the droid that you're looking for. Now, the topper comes in, the long-awaited topper from years and years. It comes in at $750 plus shipping. Are you sure it's not $1,000? I thought it was maybe $1,000. No, that's the resale value after you buy the topper and sell it after Christmas time. It's $1,000. Now, you have a Star Wars Pro that you're in the process of listing for sale, correct, Greg?
    40:27
    Yes, sir. now are you kind of kicking yourself because now the star wars topper is out there that you could have had on your pro is is this weighing you in your decision to kind of pull it off the marketplace and bring it back into the house so that's what made me sell it ken that's what made me sell it oh i'm just i'm just messing with you it's like that makes actual pretty good sense yeah no you know what man so that topper i'm just i'm not a big mod guy anyways like that's not my thing Speaker lights is about it for me I like speaker lights I love speaker lights Some Penn Stadium Comet bulbs That my extent so like I not big on any under cabinet lighting in the Greg Bone arcade over there I do not have under cabinet lighting but I've actually started lighting all my heads like I love that look glowing up on the wall I love that too yeah very nice so that has been my go to and I put in a massive Comet Black Friday order so all of my pens will be lit as soon as my shipment come in all my heads will be lit on all my games. You know what's cool when you light those heads, Greg, is when you go into your basement, they're all special when lit. Oh! Yay! I love it!
    41:41
    That's cool. I need a sign to hang above them now. Hey, we'll get one out to you, man. We'll make you up a nice neon. But you know, toppers, I'm not saying they're not my thing.
    41:54
    I do like toppers. They're just too pricey for me. and you know the controversy. You've already read everything. You've seen everybody's complaints. The point of contention for many is that it's an assumed cash grab by Stern Pinball by offering these toppers at the price in which they're, you know, the MSRP.
    42:14
    Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the thing for me is, like, I don't really care because I'm not in the market for the topper, and do I think it's an expensive price to pay for a topper? I absolutely do. Do I think it's a fair price? uh i really can't comment but i'm i'm not losing any sleep over the uh asking price for the topper because those that want the topper can buy it and those that would you know prefer not to get the topper don't have to have the topper i suppose dude and i can't agree more like like that's my thing it's like i'm not in either direction maybe if it was something i was super looking forward to you know if they come out with a jurassic park topper and i was looking really forward to it and they said hey this jurassic park topper 750 then i might have some disappointment i might have some problem but to me it's just like i'm not mad at it is it a cash grab it could be uh could it be a licensing thing where it's super expensive and disney or lucas came back and said listen um this thing has got to be this price because for us to allow you to do this uh we we don't know but i don't i don't get mad at them i don't get mad about it because there's all kinds of expensive of shit that I would really like to have in the world that's just out of my price range. This just simply marked up, you know, clothing, watches, cars. There's all kinds of stuff that's just by name or brand. I think clothing is a great example. I mean, when you think of a super high upper echelon name brands of clothing, well, are the materials maybe nicer? Absolutely. But I mean, it's the return on your investment on that shirt. What went into that shirt price wise isn't what's being asked for. Oh, it's ridiculous, dude. Like, I owned an Armani shirt one time, and I only owned one, and it was because it was a gift from somebody. And I will tell you, that shirt fit better than any shirt I'd ever had. But was that fit worth how much that shirt cost compared to something I bought from – Yes, compared to something I bought at Target or somewhere. No, not at all. And that's the way I feel this topper is. It's like some people can afford it and some people can buy it. I'm not mad at those people. And I'm not going to ridicule those people, call them suckers. I'm not going to say they're stupid or there's anything wrong with them because they choose to spend $750 on a Star Wars topper. That's what's important to them. They have the money to spend. Or even if they don't and that's what they save their money for because that's important to them, that's what they buy. You know, some people got tattoos. Some people don't.
    44:42
    Tattoos aren't cheap. You know, some people go, you're stupid, dude. you put a thousand dollars worth of ink on your body for what it's because they wanted it it made them feel good so like i leave those people alone like like that's something that's kind of going wrong in the in the pinball community that i don't like seeing is and it's always been there but i feel that it's sort of getting heightened with so much judgmental stuff oh don't get me No. Yes. I know. It's tough. The issue is that everybody is entitled to their opinion, but it's like when somebody is arguing, it's like you're only entitled to that person's opinion. And if you don't succumb to that opinion, then you're wrong and you can never waste enough time. Let me rephrase that. You can never put in enough time to win an argument online because it just never ends. Ever. 100%. Your day is typing shit out, so it's just like not worth engaging with those people. But, like, everyone should just kind of chill out and allow people to do what they want with their money, man. Like, another topper will come around for another game. Like I said, I can understand some people's frustration when it's something that they've probably looked really forward to and it's out of their price range. But don't dog the people that are actually buying it. Like, that takes it to another level. Let the people spend their money how they want to. It's their hard-earned cash, like, not yours. If you can afford a Star Wars pen in your basement, dude, chances are you can afford a topper. Whether you want to or not, it's your business. But, you know what, who cares? Well, ironically. Bill, that's another good point, too, dude. Yeah, yeah. Is, like, you know, so many people. Do you know how many people walk into my basement and I'm so proud to, like, show off my collection? And do you know how many people leave and go, that dude's stupid. Like, he's got games. He spent that much money on games. Like, that's ridiculous. And we are those same people that are calling people ridiculous for spending $750 on a droid topper. Like, it's just, it blows my mind, man. Hey, listen. We're all crazy. Greg, there's times where I think about cashing out, man, and going and buying a new vet. Straight up.
    46:45
    You're good, too. You never see anybody with a frown driving a Corvette, do you? Why would you spend all that money on a Corvette, you idiot, when you can just go ahead and get like a Dodge Leon or something? A Corvette pinball with a topper for $750? Exactly. I pay all the extra. You can get something else for less than that. And it's funny because we were just having this conversation the other day. It's like when people come in that aren't pinball people and they see my pinball collections, they are not impressed. And then when they realize because they've asked how much is invested into those machines, they are really not that impressed. So, like, I am the biggest loser for some people that come by here. They don't come to me for financial advice. I'll say that. It blows me away because I was always enthusiastic. And, like, I still take pride in my stuff. But over the years, I've learned that. Like, people don't walk away going, man, that was awesome. Like, that guy's got a cool basement. They still think I have a cool basement, but they also think I'm ridiculous for the amount of money I've got in my basement. They don't leave and say, I'm going to work some overtime and save up $20,000 and get three pinball machines in my basement. They don't do that. That's just how it goes. Oh, well. It is what it is. That's what I'm saying. We're all crazy, man. We're all crazy. Star Wars topper or Star Wars pinball machine, we're all crazy. It's the whole thing's out of control. Well, here's the thing, Greg. When they announce the Jurassic Park topper, what idiots are going to be in on it? You and me, probably. So it doesn't matter. Yeah. I hope it's 740 for your guys' sake when it comes out. A little less than the Star Wars topper.
    48:10
    Bill, we're going to save $10. We're going to save $10. Just by that expense. We're going to the dollar menu on McDonald's, Greg. Have you had enough? I've been eating Raymond noodles for like six months. Robin, have you had an opportunity? Robin, yeah, I call him Raymond noodles. Well, Raymond's are the generics of the ramen, so they're even more affordable than the ramen's. Maybe two toppers.
    48:33
    Have you had a chance to discuss what you had seen regarding Raza from Deep Root, from the Houston Pinball and Arcade Festival? Have you had a chance to get out there and share any comments on that? I discussed it with Zachary Minnie there on TwitPodcast. Yes, you did. Um, and you know, man, I don't know, like, I'm not, I'm not disappointed. I'm not blown away, but you know, again, like I kind of said on there, it wasn't something that I was watching closely that I had high hopes for. I had these massive expectations, um, just wasn't something I put a lot of thought into just because of the time. Do you have an idea like what you would price the pin at? I mean, or what you think would be a tolerable price for the market to absorb if it were to be released as is because we don't know supposedly what the additional innovations are going to be but i mean did you have an idea what you think the pinball machine could be priced for without people having star wars topper reaction i i still think i think they've got to stay around a stern pro uh price okay zach thinks i'm crazy and thinks they're more at the premium price um but i i don't know if robert's comments of him like talking about these affordable cheap pins is what kind of tainted my thoughts on that or not but i i think if they want to stay viable in this market and really make a splash i still think that that you've got to be at that stern pro pricing man and the thing is is you know maybe a few years ago you could have said hey rosa rosa's a premium that's a premium but when you look at something like you know deadpool especially Jurassic Park Pro dude that game is stacked like a pro now for Stern the way that they've came out so I still think that they have to almost be in that Stern Pro category to really grab the market and be successful I'm anticipating that game coming in between 65 and 7 when it's all said and done we don't know exactly what's going to be added to the pin Stern Pro pricing would be outstanding I just don't know that it makes sense based on what they're going to say that they're putting into the pen. Oh, I don't think they can do it. I don't know. Yeah, realistically, I don't think they can do it. Are you a deep root fan? I mean, are you rooting for the company? Are you impartial? Do you have any animosity towards? Yeah, okay. Like I said, I don't know why either. I don't know if it's just taking so long. I don't know if it's all the hype. I don't know what it is because there are, you know, like Charlie at Spooky, I still back spooky tremendously um no matter what kind of failures they have or anything else like i i still root for them i still um want to see them succeed i still want to see them really kill it knock it out of the water honestly same thing with american pinball like i always root for them come out with that theme come out with that thing that pushes you guys overboard because you build quality machines like your cabinets are solid stuff is cool like like i just want to see you succeed but honestly like with Deep Root I don't have any emotions towards them I don't know why I guess because all the hype I'm just still waiting to really see something Right, you don't have any There's nothing tangible that you really had your hands on so essentially you're talking about something that doesn't exist physically for you yet, so I get it Yeah, and they didn't do like Highway or somebody where they took people's money and screwed them over, so you're not even you can't be negative really against them because they didn't screw anybody in that aspect, but no, they don't make people somewhat whole in all honesty. So, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'm just, I'm super neutral on them. Um, just kind of hanging on the fence, waiting to see what they do. So all we can do is wait on the fence and see what they do. Well, I'll tell you what, Greg, I, myself and Bill, we totally appreciate the fact that you took the time to come on. Um, We heard on another show that you were wondering why you haven't had an invitation, and it's totally on us because, honestly, man, I didn't even think that you listened to Pinball Podcast. Otherwise, we would have invited you on Special Win Lit. Long time ago. Like months and months and months ago. So I didn't know that was your thing. I don't listen to any of them. I just like to talk on them. Well, there you go.
    52:49
    I'd like to offer you a lifetime subscription to Special Win Lit's Pinball Podcast, Greg. Actually, I do listen to you guys. Because I used to only listen to one podcast. Then I started branching out. I still only listen to podcasts in the shower. So sometimes it's two showers a day if I don't make it all the way through a podcast. But I'm glad that you guys came to the pressure and my ridicule on the other podcasts that come on here. And I've actually had multiple offers come in for other podcasts.
    53:22
    Competing offers. You guys got lucky grabbing me up, scooping me up first. We better upload this fast before somebody else does.
    53:29
    Now, you realize it's proper podcast etiquette to go on one show without going on every other show within the same month, right? So I don't want to have to have this conversation with you off the mics. I'm just saying it's Twippy season, and I've got to plug myself like a new George Clooney movie. So I've got to get out there. Why don't you tell everybody, how can they get a hold of you, Greg, if they're looking to go a little one-on-one with Gregory Bone? Check us out on Straight Down the Middle on YouTube Check us out on On Twitter Podcast sometimes I'm now on Special Win Lit Podcast That's about all I do That's good And you can reach myself or Bill At Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast At gmail.com or Facebook Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast And Bill, what's that Instagram? It is Special Win Lit Pinball Oh, if that's what you were looking for, Ken I mean, I guess you can hit me up on Facebook Oh, there you go Facebook I get a lot of Facebook messages. Sorry, man. I give you the floor at a time. Tell everybody how they can get a hold of you personally. I was just trying to plug straight down the middle some more. I got it. It is Twippy season.
    54:35
    Well, good times for Greg Bone and Bill Webb. I am Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.
    54:45
    John sucks.