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Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim, Episode 22: $1,000 Bills

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Jan 30, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Australian pinball collector discusses restoration saga and market challenges amid global pricing pressures.

Summary

Tim Dan Lee and Rachel Restow host a Tribe Multiball episode featuring Rawdon, an Australian pinball enthusiast and restorer. They discuss Rawdon's five-year Circus Voltaire restoration (sold for $20,000 AUD), the Australian pinball market's unique challenges including extreme pricing premiums, limited distribution, and slow access to new releases. The conversation touches on community sentiment around specific games like Thunderbirds and broader market dynamics around pricing sustainability.

Key Claims

  • Rawdon spent five years restoring a Circus Voltaire machine and sold it for $20,000 AUD

    high confidence · Rawdon describes his restoration project in detail, mentioning it took five years, involved replacing nearly all components except cabinet/backglass, and finally sold after extensive anxiety about the transaction

  • Australian pinball prices are 30% higher than US prices plus 10% sales tax, making new Sterns cost $10,500+ AUD

    high confidence · Rawdon explains the currency conversion and tax structure; provides examples: Avatar ~$16k AUD, Guns N' Roses Collector's ~$21.5k AUD, The Beatles Gold ~$13,250 AUD

  • Australia has only one distributor and two dealers for new pinball machines

    high confidence · Rawdon states explicitly: 'we only have one distributor. We have two dealers, but those two dealers get from the distributor'

  • New pinball machines in Australia arrive in container loads and are pre-sold before distribution

    high confidence · Rawdon: 'our machines come in container loads, and they're all pre-sold' and describes waiting months for machines like Godzilla and Rush

  • Australian arcade location pricing for pinball is $2-3 per game or $3-5 for multiple games, significantly higher than US locations

    high confidence · Rawdon contrasts US pricing (Willy Wonka $1, new Sterns 3 for $2) with Australian pricing ($2-3 per game or 3 for $5)

  • There are no arcades in Rawdon's area north of Sydney despite 270,000+ population

    high confidence · Rawdon: 'There are no arcades. there's no pinball on site in my quarter of a million plus people area'

  • Rawdon owns the only 50th anniversary Thunderbirds limited edition backglass in the world

    medium confidence · Rawdon claims to have 'the only limited edition in the world' and mentions his is the 50th anniversary backglass version

  • Thunderbirds game has a scoring bug that rolls over to zero at 2.25 billion points

    high confidence · Rawdon: 'once you get to 2.25 billion dollars, points, it goes to zero... it can't count past 2.25 billion'

Notable Quotes

  • “I sold it for $20,000, which is just a crazy amount of mate.”

    Rawdon @ ~08:30 — Highlights the Australian market's inflated pricing for restored machines compared to US secondary market

  • “This machine was cursed. It was absolutely cursed. It had three playfields in it... it was cursed.”

    Rawdon @ ~12:00 — Describes the frustrating five-year restoration saga with multiple catastrophic failures during the rebuild

  • “There are no arcades. there's no pinball on site in my quarter of a million plus people area.”

    Rawdon @ ~18:30 — Illustrates the severe distribution inequality in Australia and barriers to location play outside major cities

  • “If I want to see Godzilla in the flesh, I think they're coming in the next couple of weeks, February. But our machines come in container loads, and they're all pre-sold.”

    Rawdon @ ~22:00 — Explains the container-load import model and long wait times for new machines in Australia

  • “our dollar sits is plus 30 percent to your dollar... plus 10% tax... we're still, although we're 30% more or less, we're still dollar for dollar.”

    Rawdon @ ~35:00 — Clarifies the currency and tax structure driving pricing inequality and affordability crisis

  • “Thunderbirds is the worst game... But, I mean, the hypocrisy of their reason just drives me nuts. It's not the game that they hate.”

    Rawdon @ ~43:00 — Addresses community bias and reputation damage based on designer/company association rather than gameplay experience

  • “I thought it was going to stop. I mean, I remember when Bally Harry Williams closed down in 1999, it was like machines out here doubled in price overnight.”

    Rawdon @ ~54:00 — Provides historical context on how market disruptions have affected Australian pricing over time

  • “I'm going to need another three more by the end of the month, and I think that it will happen.”

Entities

Tim Dan LeepersonRachel RestowpersonRawdonpersonDrewpersonAmy Dan LeepersonPoor Man's Pinball Podcast NetworkorganizationTee'd Off Pinball Pursuit MultiballorganizationNikki's ArcadevenueChronic Townvenue

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: Australian pinball machines cost 30% more than US due to currency conversion, plus 10% sales tax, creating affordability crisis that prevents collector purchases

    high · Rawdon explains pricing structure with specific examples: $10,500 AUD for new Stern, $13,250 AUD for The Beatles, $21,500 AUD for Guns N' Roses Collector's; both Tim and Rachel acknowledge inability to justify such purchases

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Australia receives pinball machines in container loads that are pre-sold, creating unpredictable wait times and lack of choice for collectors

    high · Rawdon: 'our machines come in container loads, and they're all pre-sold' and 'I won't have a choice for what machine it is'; machines like Rush not expected until mid-2025

  • $

    market_signal: Extreme secondary market pricing inflation in Australia compared to US; vintage machines command disproportionately high prices

    high · Rawdon's Circus Voltaire sold for $20,000 AUD; references to David Hankin games selling for $3,000 US; notes that machines doubled in price when Williams/Bally closed in 1999

  • ?

    venue_signal: Severe geographic disparity in Australia: areas with 270,000+ population have zero arcades; new machines concentrated in Sydney with only 2-3 operators

    high · Rawdon: 'There are 270,000 people where I live. There are no arcades. there's no pinball on site' and 'probably only two or three operators in Sydney'

  • ?

    community_signal: Game reputation damage from designer/company association is more influential than actual gameplay experience in shaping community opinion

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.222

0:00
Hey, Poor Man Tribe and listeners, this is Glennie Rogers, and you're listening to the Tribe Multiple Podcast with Rachel and Tim. Poor Man Tribe's the thing, that is who we are. Ed and Drew, they're not in this thing, so how could it go wrong? Flip away with us, to an old blockade, and then we'll learn about each other. From two pennants to another Rachel and Tim, who do we have on the show today? Hello everyone and welcome to Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim. I am Tim Lee and I'm here with my co-host, Rachel Restow. And we're here to bring you another awesome episode. Tribe Multiball is a show on the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Network where we talk about the tribe members, who they are, what they're doing in pinball, and even what they're doing in life. How are you doing today, Rachel? I'm doing pretty good, Tim. How are you?
1:08
I'm doing okay. Somebody cheated on me this week. Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that. Nothing like feeling betrayed. Yeah, let's just get right to it. So you were on another podcast. I most certainly was.
1:27
Drew and I had been talking for a little bit about me coming down there and recording an episode with him. And I had some free time on Sunday. So I zipped down there and got to hang out with him and see Kathleen and JJ and play a little bit of pinball and record with him. It was a lot of fun. But, yes, I totally cheated on you. I felt it was weird. It was weird sitting next to a person and podcasting because usually on our podcast, now that we're doing a video, it's nice, but we're miles and miles and miles apart. So I've never done one like that. So it was different. It was a different type of energy. It was a lot of fun. Sorry. I'm sorry. As soon as it dropped, I actually stayed up. I didn't listen to it the next day. I stayed up that night until about 1130, and I listened to it, and I really enjoyed it. I hate to admit it, but I really enjoyed it. And to our listeners, if you haven't heard that episode, make sure you get out there and listen to it because it was a lot of fun. I laughed and I giggled, and we'll get to the ending here in a second. So I don't have a whole lot of personal pinball news other than I wanted to badger you about cheating on me. I do have to set the record straight on something that was said on the podcast. drew mentioned that i was potentially moving to milwaukee is it true i got so many messages about that including one from my really good buddy justin that said my heart sunk when i um heard that and but i did have a very long conversation with my wife over christmas she had brought it up about potentially moving somewhere and milwaukee was one of the locations we talked about we have two older kids in college and my daughter, she's fine with moving. Not saying it's tomorrow, might stay in central PA, but we've been kind of trying to figure out what we want to do with our next, you know, 20 or 30 years. And Milwaukee was one of the places we talked about. And I told Drew and next thing I know it's on a podcast and everyone's asking me about if I'm moving to Milwaukee. So it was true. He didn't lie. Yeah, he didn't lie. Drew can't keep any secrets. i've learned apparently uh no it was kind of it was kind of like because we talked about just briefly but i'm like well that's kind of news to me but i think that he's just he would be so excited to have you and amy lee you know to live local too and so would i of course yep only an hour away yep so outside of that i just played on location a couple of times of a chronic town in state college if you're uh near penn state university there's a nice little place called chronic town where you can play a lot of cool games and that is it nothing else really watch some streams you know the normal talk to tribe members on the phone how about yourself what have you been up to not a heck of a lot either i did play at plymouth tap that was fun it was head to head i think it was seven or eight players it was a really great time as always they said all the games are free play there and i go there and i have maybe i usually have a drink and maybe a soda in about six waters or sometimes i order food there too but it's and usually have a bucket out for some type of donation in terms of a charity or something that it goes towards sometimes uh he does like a bike race out there and so it goes towards whatever uh to to uh sponsor them in that bike race so that's a lot of fun i did that i hung out with true on his podcast playing playing my maiden a little bit here and there i'm trying to play one-handed i have read this whole thing and heard this whole thing about playing one-handed and about some of the skills that you can learn from that. So I play maybe one game or two games in a row and I get really frustrated. I'm like, screw this. And then I play regular. I also should talk about Lady Slip Wisconsin. I have a tournament on February 26th at Nikki's Arcade in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Very excited about that. I found out something interesting about, or something new about tournament play that at a private location, you need to have at least 16 people play in the tournament in order for it to be an IFP qualified event. Does that make sense? So because it's a private event and that's the first time I'm doing it. I'm keeping the on when you look up the tournament on the IPA website, it lists it as a private thing. So you can contact me, you know, and I'll give you the I'm going to give the people the address, you know, once they register, they get in touch with me or whatever. But I decided to do that because I thought it would be I think it's just safer. Sometimes I feel isn't that kind of unsafe to have like, you know, I don't know. Does that make sense at all? I feel like it might be unsafe to have your residence public when you have a lot of games. You know there's going to be a lot of people at your house. I don't know. To me, if I was the host, it would make me feel uncomfortable. So I just decided we'll make it private. So I met 13 women that I've registered for, so that's good. So I'm going to need another three more by the end of the month, and I think that it will happen. But I'm very excited because we're also doing a side tournament to help the Beja Transport Fund, which is run by the Shriners up in Green Bay area that they help folks get rides to Mayo and to other clinics and so forth in the Midwest. I think that's fantastic. So I'm going to do a side tournament. I think it's going to be on TNA. So it's like a $5 unlimited entry. Top score will win some kind of groovy stuff. So I don't know. I have to figure out other stuff. But that's the fun part of it. I really like figuring out the swag and help picking out the trophies with my trophy dudes. You know, I enjoy all of that stuff, too. So I'm excited. that's what i've been up to yeah awesome yeah yeah three ladies we need three ladies to sign up yeah and i get it and i understand why the ifp does that that was just the first time that i encountered that i was just interested in that is all so you know as i'm going along tournament directing and learning all these neat groovy things you know okay so that's a lot you're on drew's show you know getting the tournament stuff ready to go that i'm just having fun man i don't do anything just just me here playing pinball and that's great i guess there's a new tribe member here so yeah there's other people playing pinball it sounds like in your household too yeah yeah it sounds like we have number 12 and number 44 here yeah great even numbers congrats to amy lee although there was a question on the tribe page if it was amy lee or mistress ann that got inducted into the tribe drew will have to clarify oh boy or does she get number 44 and number 45 i don't know if that's the case about all my identities all right well you ready to get going with our guests absolutely all right well we got a guest from overseas today it's our it's our first australian guest welcome to the show tribe number 24.

  • Rachel organized a Ladies' Flip Wisconsin tournament at Nikki's Arcade in Green Bay on February 26th requiring 16+ participants for IFPA qualification

    high confidence · Rachel announces tournament details and discusses IFPA requirement: 'at a private location, you need to have at least 16 people play in the tournament in order for it to be an IFP qualified event'

  • Rachel had 13 women registered for her tournament and needs 3 more by month-end

    high confidence · Rachel: 'I met 13 women that I'm registered for, so that's good. So I'm going to need another three more by the end of the month'

    • Rachel @ ~15:00 — Shows women's participation growth in organized pinball tournaments

  • “Drew can't keep any secrets. I've learned apparently.”

    Tim Dan Lee @ ~03:30 — Humorous reference to podcast guest Drew revealing personal life details on air

  • “Who cares what Pinside says? That's not going to make any difference in that person's purchase.”

    Rachel @ ~52:00 — Commentary on community sentiment versus actual market dynamics and pricing

    • Plymouth Tap
    venue
    Helicon Breweryvenue
    Circus Voltairegame
    Thunderbirdsgame
    Godzillagame
    Rushgame
    The Beatlesgame
    Spinal Tapgame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Avatar (James Cameron's)game
    Guns N' Roses Collector's Editiongame
    Ladies' Flip Wisconsinevent
    Beja Transport Fundorganization
    IFPAorganization
    Pinsideorganization

    medium · Rawdon's frustration about Thunderbirds: 'people that will publicly shit on Thunderbirds have never seen it or never played it, but they have an opinion about the owner of the company'; Tim and Rachel agree they judge games after playing not by Pinside opinion

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Negative Pinside sentiment can trigger panic selling despite actual market conditions favoring sellers

    medium · Rachel describes someone dumping Stranger Things after 9-19 plays due to Pinside negativity fears, despite game later appreciating $3,000 in value; Rachel dismisses Pinside as predictive

  • ?

    community_signal: Women's participation in competitive pinball growing; organizers actively recruiting female players to meet IFPA tournament minimums

    high · Rachel organizing Ladies' Flip Wisconsin with 13 registered women, needs 3 more for IFPA qualification; associated with other women-focused initiatives

  • ?

    product_concern: Thunderbirds Home Pin game has scoring rollover bug at 2.25 billion points

    high · Rawdon: 'once you get to 2.25 billion dollars, points, it goes to zero... it can't count past 2.25 billion'; reports no other issues in 3+ years of ownership

  • ?

    collector_signal: Rare limited edition machines (e.g., Thunderbirds 50th anniversary backglass) are being actively sought by dealers and have appreciating value

    medium · Rawdon received unsolicited offer to sell Thunderbirds limited edition; refused because anticipates future rarity appreciation; references David Hankin games as precedent

  • ?

    operational_signal: Australian location play pricing ($2-3 per game) is prohibitively expensive compared to US; creates preference for home collections over location play

    high · Rawdon: Australian pricing makes it 'almost not worth it to play pinball on location' and recommends having 'five or six machines each and play between them'; Tim calculates $75/hour at $3/game rate

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball market remains highly inflation-resistant; prices have not normalized despite predictions since 1999 Williams/Bally closure and 2008 recession

    medium · Rawdon reflects: 'I thought it was going to stop... when Bally Harry Williams closed down in 1999, machines doubled in price... never did' and 'prices are still crazy' in 2025

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Home Pin Pinball (Thunderbirds) operates independently from major manufacturers; developing next title (Spinal Tap) with direct distributor relationships

    medium · Rawdon communicates directly with Mike (Home Pin owner) for toppers/support; Mike announces next machine (Spinal Tap) to select customers; public pricing on freight and accessories

    • 8:14
    Rowden Osborne? No, no, no, no, no. G'day Timmy, g'day Rachel. No, let's start. Let's start. Rawdon.
    8:30
    Rawdon. Can we call you Steve? Fat Jimmy, I don't know. What a wonderful name. It's hard. Rachel and I, we're both botching the name Yeah, that's right How you guys doing? Right on, right on Right on Yeah Yeah, we've been good Welcome to the show Thank you for inviting me on I sit over here going, welcome Welcome Looking out the window Welcome I tell you what It is warm where you are at And it is absolutely freezing where Rachel and I are at, right? Yeah, it's lunchtime here. I literally just got out of the pool. And in your language, it's a mid-80s and gorgeous. No wind, sun, no cloud, and I'm fortunate enough to have a pool in the backyard. So I can just go and jump in the pool and enjoy it. Perfect day for a dip. Yeah, it is over here. Not here. It was negative 11 here yesterday. I have no idea what snow looks like. We got a lot of it. Two feet. I saw Rachel say she was getting the shovel out to move snow off the front yard, off the footpath or the driveway.
    9:50
    Actually, surprisingly, it's been a very light snow, knock on wood, type of winter here because I've got to move it myself. And, you know, it's not my most favorite thing to do. It is refreshing. It's a nice activity to do, but I don't want to move a foot of it, you know. Yeah. No, look, I think the coldest it gets here would be maybe 37, 38, maybe three times a year, but very rarely goes under 40. Yeah, that's T-shirt weather here. Oh, yeah. When it gets up to 30 and 40, I'm outside in a T-shirt. Yeah, I've got a wardrobe full of T-shirts. I'll be right there. Amazing. Just jump through the laptop. You'll enjoy today. Here I come.
    10:35
    All right. So, hey, tell us about yourself. You know, we haven't met before. This is the first time the three of us are talking. So this is really exciting. You know, what are you doing out in Australia in pinball? At the moment, I've just had the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders after about five years. I finally finished the Circus Voltaire restoration. So that would be five years in June.
    11:07
    And it was going to be a quick flip. Okay. And then it just gradually turned into a museum piece. Okay. Everything just got replaced with spare parts. So it got to the point where you just stopped counting how much it was costing. And then it was finished. And what? It left here literally only a week ago. And I cannot tell you the anxiety involved when a person says, yes, I'll take it. I mean, I'll tell you what I sold it for. I sold it for $20,000, which is just a crazy amount of money. Wow. And then I had two days of anxiety of him coming, like he had to come into state. He had to come about 600, 700 miles. Okay. Now, I knew every micro floor in that machine. It was literally a brand new machine. The only old parts were the cabinet, the back glass, and everything else was replaced. Everything was new parts, everything. But there were a few micro floors in it. And I was terrified. Like, you may be, I'd like to hear what you think. So he paid a 10% deposit, $2,000. And then he spoke to some people in Melbourne and they knew who I was. So they knew it was a legit sale. It was all good. So then he put the other $18,000 in. I didn't know this person. And then I had to wait for him to come and get it. But what happens there? What happens if he comes up and goes, yeah, no, it's not what I thought. What do you do? I mean, I'm lucky. I put the money in a side account and didn't touch it until the machine left. Yeah. But what do you do when he says, no, I don't want it? You just be nice to him. Say, hey, you know, maybe try to be a salesman and try to talk them into it. But eventually, if they don't want it, you just kind of got to shake their hand and move on. At least, you know, you weren't. Do you give them back the whole 20,000? I think for your time, you shave off a little off the top. Yeah. Like $100 or something like that. I don't know because if you have to transfer the money back to them, there is some work for you that you're doing there. So I don't know. But anyway. Like it's a minder's fee kind of. But at the same time, like it was me jiving. How far did this guy have to jive? Like interstate. So say 650 miles, 1,000 kilometers. So that would take me, what, eight hours? I don't even know. No, no, no, no. 11 hours. Okay, so if something would take me 11 hours and I'm driving there to get it and the person shows up and doesn't take it home, I can't even believe that. But if that happened, I don't know if I would charge them something because they'd have to be like really, something really would have to be wrong with that game in order for them to not take it home after an 11-hour drive. I don't know, Tim. If it was a person that's local to me, I'd be like, screw you, man. I don't have a chance to miss money back and take another 10 minutes out of my day. But someone coming long distance might be different. Yeah, I'm surprised that somebody would pay in full before they come. I could see the deposit, and then you arrange payment once you get there. I definitely am taking some of the deposit if they back out, especially if you held it. But it sounds like he took it, correct? Oh, absolutely. I mean, again, like I said, I had five years of eyes on the machine having built it, whereas he just came in and just saw the grand picture and said, just pack it up and get it in, you know, let's wrap it up and get it out of here. We didn't even play a game. He said, do you want to play a game? I said, no, I never want to see it again. Wow.
    14:57
    This machine was cursed. It was absolutely cursed. It had three playfields in it. I went through halfway through one playfield and dropped it. Oh, that's something I would do. Yeah, I had to get another playfield. The cabinet, I went to put the new shiny mirror rails on it, and as I was levering off one of the rails, one of the layers of ply ripped off with it. So then it had to get all new side again. Oh, it was cursed. That's why it took five years, yeah. So now somebody's arcade is cursed, wherever that machine was. No, no, no, no. He got home safely. He sent me a photo at 10 to 6 a.m. the next day to say he'd got home and put it in the lineup. He was stoked. And that's good. I'm glad. I'm glad he loved it. I mean, I didn't build it for me. It was never supposed to be like that. Okay. There was no profit in it, I can tell you now. I really, really dig that game and I wish I could own it, but I don't know if I can spend 20G on it. Yeah, I love that game. I stopped counting at 15 and that was a long time ago. Okay. Yeah. Look at you.
    16:13
    Yeah. So that's a cool story. So what else you got going on? Not much. So now I've got the cleanup from that mess. Okay. But new game wise, I mean, we don't see them out here. I mean, all the new games go straight into homes. I just see what I see on the Internet. Yeah, let's talk about that. So every game goes to new homes? Yeah. You don't get the new games? No. No rush on location? No Godzilla? Okay. I'm about an hour north of Sydney on the East Coast. There's 270,000 people where I live.
    16:50
    There are no arcades. there's no pinball on site in my quarter of a million plus people area. So the only way I'm going to play a new machine in my area, if one of the pinball people I know here buy a new in box, but the bulk of them go to Sydney. So if I want to play new in box, there's probably about two or three places in Sydney. There's probably two operators as we call them out here. Do you call them operators there? You know, people that have routes? Yes. So, yeah, so there's probably only two or three operators in Sydney. Wow. So if I want to – okay, I played Godzilla three months ago at a pinball festival. Okay. If I want to see Godzilla in the flesh, I think they're coming in the next couple of weeks, February. But our machines come in container loads, and they're all pre-sold. So for me to get a new machine, I don't know what next is next because they haven't told us, but you better put me down for one. So I've got one coming out of the container.
    18:03
    Great. And so you're just getting Godzilla. Yeah. All right. So, like, I saw that Helicon Brewery in Pittsburgh has five Rush machines on location as of yesterday. So you don't get that. I won't see Rush. Put it this way. you'll be sunbaking around the swimming pool at your house when I see Roche. So I'm talking middle of your summer. So I reckon June at the earliest Yeah I mean I see all the stuff on the internet and by the time I actually get to play it it done and dusted We moved on a couple of machines I didn't see – okay, look at Halloween or Ultraman. However many are coming to Australia, which will only be a handful, they all come together in one container. So if you ordered early, you might have to wait, but if you ordered late, you'll get a bit early. Spooky will just do an Australian run because we've got different power down here. We've got 240 as you've got 110. So he'll do the Australian allotment, and they'll be sent down here. But I don't expect us to play Ultraman or the Halloween until Pinfest this year, which won't be until November. That's really interesting. I was wondering if there was a specific allotment per country. So that answers that question. I'll tell you, I was talking to the distributor for Australia just before Christmas, and surprisingly he had, I think it was 20 Elvira 40th editions. And I'd known Bruce since I was a kid, so 30-odd years. And he was only going to sell the 40th edition Elviras, 40th anniversary, sorry, for like $12,000 US, $13,000 US. I said, these things are going for silly money over there. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, well, that's what I'm selling them for. So prices out here very much vary. Yeah, exactly. Some say, well, should I buy one? My money. Yeah. So you have to wait a long time to get them, and you're paying a lot more than we are here in the United States. Not always, but not always. Not always, yeah. Yeah, I could not tell you. If I rang up the distributor tomorrow, remember, we've only got one distributor. We've got two dealers, but those two dealers get from the distributor. Right. If I rang up the distributor on Monday morning and said, I want the next new machine, I know three or four months ago there weren't machines available to April, but that was way back at Pinfest back in November. So I may now not, and I won't have a choice for what machine it is. So if you walked in there today and said, I want a brand new machine, no. Well, no. I mean, that's why prices out here are silly. But for how much longer, I don't know. Just out of curiosity, do you play on-site? Do you play a lot of on-site pinball? Yes. Okay. At Plymouth Tap where I play, there are eight new sterns and a Wonka. What do you pay to play? How much is a game of pinball where you are now? Wonka is $1 per game, and all the new sterns are three games for $2. Okay. Okay, so out here, if you're lucky, it's $2 a game and $3 for five – sorry, three games for $5. And if you're not lucky, it's $3 a game and two games for $5. But what they now have is they've got a swipe card. You just swipe your credit card.
    21:42
    It's swipe and play. So you can spend a lot of money real quick if you're on the biz. Why don't we have those? Yeah, they have those here. I've seen them at more like the children's type of arcades, the fun places where they also have pinball, and they'll have like the jumping pits and all that. I've seen those there. But mainly on the standard locations, we don't have that. But I've got to say, if games are $3 per game, Drew is going to be so broke if he ever goes to Australia. Yeah.
    22:14
    That's like $75 an hour for him to play pinball. Yeah. It's almost not worth it to play pinball on location there. It's better to have a couple of friends that have five or six teams each and play between them. Yeah. But I mean, okay, so out here, a brand new pro. Brand new pro is about $10,500. thousand dollars so our dollar where our dollar sits is plus 30 percent to your dollar okay right so for me to get an american dollar i've got to give you a dollar 35 right but then once it gets you know you then got to pay 10 tax on that as well okay so i think we're talking for uh le these days is nearly 16 000 a guns and roses collector's edition was 21 and a half thousand dollars Australian. Wow. Out.
    23:10
    Although your price, you know, the pricing that you guys have, I still think, we're still, although we're 30% more or less, we're still dollar for dollar. Like if you go and say get a Big Mac meal, I think it's like, is it like $10, $12 for a Big Mac meal in America? I think it's $8 here. Okay. $8 or $9. Okay. Dollar for dollar, our dollars aren't that different. It's only that for some reason our government wants a low dollar, so it's cheaper for you to buy our stuff. So that's 30%, 35% difference plus the 10% tax we've got sales tax. That's just to stop us from buying our own product.
    23:56
    So our pricing is just too high now. Yeah. So you're not thinking about adding any new game now? No, I won't be buying any. I mean, I've got the money. I've got the money sitting there because I haven't been to America twice now. But my wife's going, we're not spending $15,000. I know the game I can get, which is a Beatles. We've got a Beatles coming in March, and I know I can get one because they're available.
    24:26
    And I would like it. That game really suits my gameplay, but I can't justify it. Yeah. I can't justify it. I know that game, the Beatles gold is going to be $13,250. I can't – no.
    24:40
    We've got enough games. I recently looked into getting a Beatles as well, and I'm telling you the reason I didn't pull the trigger is because it just cost too much, even for a pro right there with you. And I'm not paying the additional tax or fee on top of it like you are. I think a pro is just out of my price range now. I have to save for two years probably, I think, to feel like I can responsibly buy a pro. You know? I don't know. Yeah, I mean prices are high in the United States, but like you said, Rachel, but even with the fees and the taxes in Australia, I couldn't justify it either if I were you. So let me ask you. So then what are you playing? What's in your collection? Are you getting older games? You fixed up Circus, but what are you playing at home? Okay, at the moment, what I'm playing at home, I mean, are mainly the games that I have that I played as a kid. So I've been playing pinball like 50 years this year. So, I mean, I'm 55 next week, so 50 years worth of pinball. I mean, my greatest years were my teen years, so late 70s, early 80s. So I've got stuff like 8 Ball Deluxe, Meteors, Space Invaders, Countdown, Firepower, Surf Champ. I've got the very first game I ever played, Spanish Eyes. And then I've got everyone's favorite in the hobby, Thunderbirds. Okay, I saw that picture, Thunderbirds. I have the only limited edition in the world. Really? Okay. I want to hear that story. I'm interested. Tell me that story. So I got the first Thunderbirds in Australia, and it was – I mean, say Thunderbirds, for instance. I grew up on that show, so like I say, I'm 55 next week, so 67. So when I was 10 years old in 1977, Thunderbirds was on television 6 a.m. to 7 a.m. every morning of the week. It started our day, and pinball is very associated with Thunderbirds. If you watch the Thunderbirds show, it's very gadget-centric. It's all these mechanics. It's all these marvelous things that open and close, which is basically what a pinball does. So when they introduced, when HomePin said they were going to do a Thunderbirds machine, shut up and take my money.
    27:09
    Yeah? Yeah. Yeah? But have a look at my back glass. Mine's the 50th anniversary back glass. Okay. So anyway, I had the opportunity to get the very first one, which I did. And, like, look, it does not – the heat that that game gets just blows my mind time and time again. Thunderbirds is shit. Thunderbirds is the worst game. No, it's not. I have so many people come round to this house, and the first and last game they play is Thunderbirds. They don't read Pinside. They don't listen to the who's who of pinball for their opinion of – for whatever reason. And, I mean, the hypocrisy of their reason just drives me nuts. It's not the game that they hate. I mean, a lot of people that will publicly shit on Thunderbirds have never seen it or never played it, but they have an opinion about the owner of the company. And so, therefore, the game is garbage. But, I mean, I sold my creature from the Black Lagoon. Why isn't that game garbage? I mean, we all know, you know, about the designer of that game. But that's okay. Yeah, that's a good point because I've never seen a Thunderbirds, and Rachel and I have talked about this a thousand times. I don't think either of us ever judge a game until we play it, right? You've got to play it. You've got to sit down with it. Absolutely. Well, I've had mine now over three years. Okay. I haven't had a fall yet. It hasn't broken down. Really? The only flaw in the game, really, is that once you get to 2.25 billion dollars, points, it goes to zero. So the top three scores are zero. So it literally rolls over to nothing because it can't count past 2.25 billion. Oh, okay. All right. I get it. Yep. So when you look at the high scores, it's 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 3, and then 2.1 billion. But I've already, like, you know, if I speak to, like, Mike, the owner, I got the topper for it, like, before Christmas. He contacted me and said, I've got a topper here for you. You've just got to pay the, he publicly announced that you've just got to pay the freight from Taiwan. Okay. I contacted him and said, mate, here's my credit card details. What do I owe you? And he said, I'll do it for you for $100. That's fine. Oh, nice. You know, he publicly put out their 170. And then on top of that, he sent me the details for the next machine, which is Spinal Tab, you know. Okay. Have you ever even heard of that game before? That's why I had to look it up while we're sitting here. It does look interesting. You have to look into it. Yeah. And, I mean, the crazy thing was last night I had a person email, it came up on Messenger saying, do you want to sell your Thunderbirds? I have a buyer. And just instantly I said no. No. simply because there'll come a day when everyone's forgotten whatever Mike said when he said it will be long forgotten and people go, it's a rare game. It's a bit like the Australian games that were made in the late 70s, the Hankin games. They were garbage. But I had a fellow in America say, hey, I've got a Hankin Empire Strikes Back. I've got the ability to buy for 3,000 US. I'm thinking to myself, geez, I got given two of those because they didn't work. so you know everything comes around but yeah it still bugs the life out of me when people just rubbish the game because they can they're just yeah listen there there are a lot of people that dump on a lot of games we bought a stranger things and somebody dumped it after i can't remember if it was nine or 19 plays but they got all caught up in the pin side negativity that first few weeks and there were podcasters out there crapping on it. So somebody actually dumped it, and we got about $800 off because they said that they were worried that it was going to tank and they didn't want to lose any more money. Now I could sell the game for $3,000 more than what I paid for it. Who cares what Pinside says? That's not going to make any difference in that person's purchase. I'm sorry, but that person was really foolish, Tim, and thinking, I'm just going to say it, I think that they're really foolish in thinking that if the game tanks on pin side, they're going to get less money for the game. Are you crazy with the way that pinball is and the way that prices are? Put anything on the market anybody's going to buy. You can put something on the market that doesn't even work and people are overpaid to buy it right now. True story. But for how much longer? How much longer is this going to happen for though? Who knows? I thought it was going to stop.
    31:57
    I mean, I remember When Bally Williams closed down in 1999, it was like machines out here doubled in price overnight. And then it's like when someone dies and suddenly their memorabilia just suddenly stupid money on eBay and then it all dies off. And so pinball out here in 2000 just doubled in price. And we're all going, sweet. Yep. Okay. It'll taper off. It never did. And it still hasn't. Even, like, I remember coming to Chicago in, what, 2008. Batman Dark Knight had just been released. Pinball was dead. I mean, the atmosphere in Chicago in Expo was just, it was like a morgue. There was no happy, happy. It was just, but that was it. That was the beginning of the turnaround. Yeah, and it's still going. Prices are still crazy. Drew and I talk about this all the time.
    32:56
    You know, our friends on Pinball Junk Drawer, Martin, he just did a little segment on that, and Drew and Rachel talked about it. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy. But you said something there. I'm going to switch directions on you. You were at Pinball Expo, and I was creeping on your Facebook feed before the show, and I noticed a couple of things. You drink a lot of beer, which is perfect for the tribe. And it seems that you've gone to a lot of pinball shows. Is that correct? Oh, I was very, very lucky back in 2008. Okay. I met a multimillionaire that was bored with life and decided to buy a pinball machine. Okay. And he was instantly hooked.
    33:40
    And so he literally wrote a check for a quarter of a million dollars. And we set up the Australian Pinball Company. and I came to Expo and literally, I can tell you, in 2008, a quarter of a million dollars bought you a hell of a lot of machines. I can imagine, yeah. People were – look, 2008, I was driving around Expo, around Chicago,
    34:06
    and there were shopping centres that were empty. They had grass growing through the asphalt in the car parks. They were just closed. There were empty houses, empty shops everywhere. And so when I was at Expo there with $1,000 bills hanging out my pocket, I could buy anything for dirt cheap, dirt, dirt cheap. And I mean, that Saturday night after the banquet, we were at the bar and I had just the most insane night with Python Angelo. I've never been so sick the next day in my life. We said that he was talking about Transylvania and I was talking about Australia. And I mean, that's why I've got that bottle up there, Knob Creek. He grabbed a bottle of Knob Creek bourbon, and I don't drink spirits.
    34:55
    And it was just, it was a night that I'll never forget ever. And so I bought all these machines. It's crazy. I met a fellow that during Expo, so I bought all these machines. It's got to like lunchtime Sunday at Chicago. how am I going to get these machines back to Australia? And this particular person said, I will tell you, if you buy the rest of the games from me, I'll take these, ship these back to me, back to Green Bay. Where's Green Bay? Where's Green Bay Packers? Tampa. No? No, Green Bay Packers is in Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is one hour north of where I live. I think he was down near the water. Yeah, it's right on Lake Michigan. Well, he was down at Green Bay, and so he took all these machines that I bought, not from him but from other people, plus what I bought from him. And I've come back to Australia hoping to God that we get them. And then he – like we were buying early 2000 Sterns and that for like $2,500, $3,000 for Playboy, like Stern versions. and it got to like a week before Christmas. We air freighted them all out. They all arrived and I just had to convert them to 240 volt for 110. And I mean, if I'd never heard from that fella again, I was dead, you know. Yeah, you were done. Yeah, I was done and dusted. But, you know, the shipment arrived and, yeah, it was fantastic. And then three months later, the fellow no longer liked pinball anymore. It was all over. He'd moved on.
    36:41
    That's a crazy story. What happened to all the games then? He kept them all, but he sold them off bit by bit. He split up with his wife, and they got sold off with the mansion that he lived in. So that's 2008. That was yeah all expenses trip paid We had a week in L We had a week in Vegas and a week in Chicago And so fast forward, what, say mid-2015, 16, when podcasting took off, I just started listening to all the podcasts. And then I just started sending them messages on Message Bank. And they would respond. And I met like special when lit Bill and Ken and their buddy Steve Beattie. And yeah, just speaking to all people on the podcast. So I'll come over and I'll meet you at TPF. And so I did that. And that was first trip was like TPF was that the flight straight out of Sydney into Texas. Got there about 7 p.m. straight to the Hard Eight, Texas. Ah, the barbecue. Yeah, that place is good. Yeah, so we had a big feed there and met everyone. And that first night, Joe Balsa.
    38:11
    Me and Joe Balsa stayed at the bar until about 5 a.m. until they threw us out a few times. Until breakfast. Yeah. And so 5 a.m. was like 9 p.m. here. so I just went up to bed at 9pm like 5am but 9pm here I was having an early night and so I did that every night I never really changed time zones so I the second night was with John Borg John Borg, that was an amazing night we ended up it was like a first date, we were out the front just having beers and smoking and it was like you go inside You know, it was a crazy – and we spoke for hours. It was fantastic. And his Saturday night was more of the same. I think I played at Texas. I don't think I played 10 games. It was all young. Yeah. That sounds like Tim Lee at Expo. Yeah, that was at Expo. I probably played 20 games maybe. I did a lot of socializing. Yeah. I mean, I only played games that I've never seen before, you know, which is very few. It's all the new stuff. But, you know, if I seen Adam's Family or Monster Battle, I just walk straight past it. I mean, I've played it here. You know, there's no point playing it overseas. I'd rather go and spend that time hanging out, having a beer or, you know, chewing the fat, so to speak. Yeah. So you hung out with Borg. Yeah. We speak every week now. Wow. So his new game Rush. Let me ask you a question. Be honest. Do you know Rush in Australia? No idea. Had to look it up. Never heard of him. Wow. Really? And honestly, I don't think anyone has. Oh. See, yeah, I mean, I think the only people that would know Rush out here, and I did ask a buddy of mine, and he's a drummer. Okay. So he knew who Neil Peart was. Okay. And he said, yeah, of course I do, you idiot. And I go, okay.
    40:12
    So I had to look them. I had to put them into YouTube. I had no idea. Okay, so let me ask you this. Who was your first concert? What was the first concert you went to? 1977, 10 years old, in the pouring rain, ABBA. Rach, do you know ABBA? Yeah, of course I do. Okay. Dancing Queen. Yep. You are the Dancing Queen. Young and sweet. I'm only 17.
    40:45
    Yes, I love it. In the pouring rain. All right, so can we get your friend John Borg to get you a custom back glass of ABBA on your rush? Yeah. Okay.
    40:59
    Let's go down that path. Let's think about that for a moment. Okay, you've got this machine where they spend a squillion dollars on development. A squillion dollars. A squillion. And you've got these lunatic Australians with $1,000 bills hanging out their pockets going, yes, you're a rush. Why don't we do the spooky thing and do an in excess pinball, a midnight oil pinball, a cold chisel pinball? Or someone, I'm sure you probably haven't heard of any of those, probably in excess. Yes.
    41:35
    Have you heard of midnight oil or cold chisel? Yeah, but only the one song, the time has come. Beds are burning. They still are. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? So here's this machine, and we're going to – it's just a total – okay. So for the money that's now put into a game, I'm surprised that they're not – so we're going to do a music pin, but we're going to do the same pin. We'll do Rush for North America, Canada. maybe a bit of Europe, but then we'll also do the same game and we'll do In Excess for Australia. Oh. I would crack open the piggy bank for an In Excess pinball tomorrow. Sight unseen. Like, can I tell you, the only two pinball machines I've ever bought brand new in the box unsighted was Star Wars Episode I, and I bought four of them, and Thunderbirds.
    42:33
    Okay. And I've been burned full both times. But in excess would get the dollar, right? Oh, okay. I love the idea, though, of re-skinning a game. You just re-skin it to a different music theme. Yeah. I mean, Rush means nothing to me. Nothing. Can I get a Fleetwood Mac game or Prince or Journey? Yeah, exactly.
    42:55
    See, by doing that, that would allow other bands to have machines that normally aren't going to get made. Exactly, right. Right, exactly. Right. Interesting. Yeah. Maybe someday P3 Multimorphic will do a band theme, and they're the company that could really pull that off because you can easily change the screen. You know, there's no play field with art. So that's kind of neat.
    43:26
    You got a great idea. Yeah. I mean, like I say, with Rush coming, I don't think there would be anyone in Australia who shut up and take my money. I just can't see it because we just don't know them. I mean, I'm 55. I was a DJ for five years. I never heard of them. They never crossed my playlist. Yeah, and they're like huge in Canada. And they're big in the United States, but they're huge in Canada. So that's a good idea. Somebody's listening. I know people listen because I see the stats.
    43:57
    I told John himself, I said, man, you got to re-theme it for me. Yeah, great idea. Have you heard about this thing called being Borg on Mr. Borg's games. Is that where he jumps the rail? Yes, and it likes to go into the out lane, right? When that happens, to me it's like I watched wrestling in the 80s and 90s. So it was like when the referee was – someone over there interrupted the referee and then someone else comes in and just coat hangers the bloke and then he jumps out and then the referee turns around and goes, what, and counts him out? Yeah. All right. I'm talking about that. Exactly. It's exactly what I'm talking about. It's like his move, right? So I'm watching the Twitch release with Jack Danger and Raymond Davidson. They're playing it and Mr. Borg's in chat. And it happened to, I think, Jack after he had trapped up for a little bit. And then he went to shoot the ball and he bricked it. It kind of sailed over into the Borg thing, whatever. And in chat, Mr. Borg said, Borg, really? That's great. I got both. so hard at that because I think when a designer, a coder, an artist, anything, like they get the humor of like their own stuff, that was just hilarious. I got bogged. Bogged, yeah. I got bogged. And so I feel that way when I play some of his games. I'm like, I say bogged, you know, as I walk away from draining on the game. But that's hilarious. I'm going to share that a little bit. Yeah. I can tell you, I mean, if you can get screwed out of a game of pinball, Like on a ball, I've been screwed every way possible.
    45:34
    One, I can't believe it just did that, that hasn't happened to me. I'm finding new ways. I remember one of my first tournaments, the adrenaline was pumping through me and I had to play Fathom.
    45:48
    I played Fathom since it was brand new in the box in 1981. I don't know how many Fathoms in the 90s. And I had to play it my first game. I didn't get $150,000. You know, I managed to stuff it up three times with just the adrenaline just flowing through me. I can't believe that just happened. Can't believe that just happened. I can go and play a game any time and kill it. But then as soon as you get to tournament mode, oh, yes. Something else happens. Okay. Yeah. The adrenaline just jumps in and just everyone's standing around like walking dead. In a tournament, Walking Dead, I cannot get over $5 million in a tournament.
    46:33
    I can't. It's now, if we're in a tournament, they just play Rodan in Walking Dead. He'll fall over. They just know. I just know the outlines are going to just eat me. Oh, I feel like the adrenaline thing, I always feel like it's the very first game, first round of tournament, of league, or whatever it is. I have so much adrenaline going when I'm playing my very first ball, my first three balls, I guess. I'm really jumping around and kicking and really anxious. And my heart rate, I can feel my heart pumping. Yeah. I've got my heart rate on my wrist and I just watch it just flow. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I'm at 135. After ball one, heart rate. You know? I'm like, I don't know. It's just going. I'm like, I'm just really into it. And it does calm down. For me, it calms down after a little bit, but that's really refreshing to hear that you have this adrenaline overwhelming that you just know you're going to F things up. Yeah. I get that too. Yeah. In tournaments, I just get this black patch in my mind going, you're just going to screw this up. You're just going to find a new way of getting nothing.
    47:50
    Hold your head high and walk away, boy. Hold your head high. That's fine. All three balls out, triple drain. Yeah. No, and a multi-ball. No balls. Nothing. No. No jackpot. No. Adrenaline really screws up your timing. Yes. And so trying to, like, harness that. Yeah. If you ever play me first round on something, you'll know that I'm, like, just, like, my brain's off. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. Anyway. You know what to do, Rachel. You put it on five balls. You'll improve your scores drastically.
    48:27
    I did do that with my Maiden. I did for probably the first, maybe after a month of having it. I did that for about three months, and I had her on five ball just to get further in the game. But now I can get to cyborg, multi-ball, and three balls, which is pretty good. Not always, but sometimes I can do it now, so that's cool. But, I mean, when I play new games now, do you find that games are too multiball-centric? Like, I remember playing, what was it, Guns N' Roses, and I'm just flailing it. Forever. Yeah. So I think it depends on what you're trying to do, right? So if you're trying to play the game to play the story. Shoot them all, they're flashing lights.
    49:10
    But if you're trying to play, like, tournament-wise, it's all about getting the points, right? So then you have to go where the points are. Most of the time, it's multi-balls and jackpots, unless it's like police force, which is a single shot.
    49:23
    TNA, you're going to go for your multi-ball to get more shots at your reactor, that kind of thing. It depends on the game. But if you're playing the game to play the game, I would say, I don't know, Guns N' Roses is a great example. I think there's way too many multi-balls on that game. One ball can last you a half hour, Tim, right? Yeah. Yeah, and Zach Menne said this on one of his shows a couple of weeks ago, and I agree with him, that as you progress as a pinball player, you want to see less multiballs. But when you're new to pinball, you love the multiball. And I have a Guns N' Roses, and I will tell you that every non-pinhead that plays that game absolutely loves it, and they love the balls. They're playing the music, and they're dancing, and balls are shooting everywhere, and I get up. And I have it set on easy because what I found is so many people were getting disappointed. They couldn't make it through a song. That's the one game I have set up easy. But I play it. I'm just like, dear Lord, would all these balls quit coming out? You know, it's like playing a multi-ball for a half hour. So the pinheads, Zach was right. You don't like all those multi-balls as you progress into your career. Yeah. I mean, out of all my games, I think Firepower and Thunderbirds are the only two multi-ball games I've got left now. And, I mean, I'll play 8-Ball Deluxe all night. That game, I mean, I've got a brand new play field waiting to go into it. I mean, I will play that game all night. I mean, it just leaves me hanging wanting more, more, more. I want the perfect game on it. I mean, the perfect game, I think in 30, 81, so what's that? 40 years, I've got maybe twice the perfect ball where I've got absolutely everything. Okay. It's cool. It's called it to the floor.
    51:11
    I love that. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, and I like a multi ball, but I like a build up to it, right? You know, I need... Firepower.
    51:22
    Firepower, perfect. You know, lock the balls and with firepower I find the objective, lock them in and then during multi ball, get them all back in without losing them but i mean i've got a new rule set there for firepower i just need someone to to write the rule to be able to do it you know so so multi-ball has like if you play firepower in uh in tournament mode all you're going to do is shoot light the spinner and shoot the spinner so what about if you know you lock the balls and three ball multi-balls gives you 3x play field two ball multi-ball gives you 2x play field you know and it yeah i've got a whole new rule set They're waiting for someone who knows how to write code to do this thing. What about Marty over at Final Round? He's too busy.
    52:11
    Yeah. He's down there with Damien and doing his best, I hope. Yeah. I actually played Celts to switch gears a little bit. I played Celts at Helicon Brewery in Pittsburgh. They have one. And I had said on the last show, it was kind of brutal, the right side. Get rid of that right out lane. I kind of enjoyed it. but that's an Australian game. I saw, it's crazy, I saw Celts in Texas, and I saw Celts in Chicago,
    52:42
    and see, Damien, for me, is 1,000 kilometres away, so he's, what, 650 miles away, and with COVID and everything, I haven't been able to get down there. I haven't been able to go down to their tournament, which is flipping out around November, so I physically haven't got my hands on it. I mean, when I saw it in Texas in 2019, Damien was building it, trying to get it ready for the show. And then in Chicago, when I went over there, the great Roger Sharp was playing it. I wasn't interrupting. You have Roger Sharp, you know, I'm not interrupting Roger Sharp. Yeah, you can't do that. No. So I've seen it. I've looked at it. But, yeah, I've only seen it on your rock, and, yeah, I still haven't played it. But I'm looking forward to playing it. I'm looking forward to playing Fathom. I'm fairly confident that Centaur and 8-Ball Deluxe will roll down that conveyor belt when they get built. I don't know what the next two would be. I really don't. I've fought long and hard, but I can't think what the next two would be. All right. So they didn't have one because I see you have a Pinfest shirt on. They didn't have one at Pinfest? Yeah, Pinfest is our pinball show. This is 10th anniversary. So that's November every year. And it's up here in Newcastle in New South Wales. And it's just the Newcastle Pinball Association. And it's a group that get together and they do the Pinfest. And under normal non-COVID conditions, we have about 100, 120 games every year. And they donate all the money goes to charity. So, I mean, I always supply two machines to it. So normally I take 8 Ball Deluxe, Space Invaders, but Buck Rogers went for a couple of years. So everyone just takes machines along. So we usually get like 100, 120 machines, and you get a free T-shirt if you contribute. And, yeah, that's every November. So basically a lot of people on the east coast of Australia will converge on Newcastle once a year. And then the way it falls is that flipping out in Melbourne is like two, a week to two to three weeks later in the first week in in december it'd be better if they were you know further apart but it's just not the way it is so they're basically the only two shows that we have every year okay that's pretty cool are you always able to go to both of them generally yeah i couldn't go to okay so after after texas sorry after after chicago 2019 the following weekend was flipping out in Melbourne. So I couldn fly home from Chicago and then say to my wife oh by the way I going to Melbourne next weekend It was yeah it was a task too hard You couldn do that to Lucy either No, no, my little puppy, no. She loves me. Yeah, she's very cute. Yeah, very overweight. She has what I call the doggy force, you know, like Star Wars, the force. She just waves the paw, you will give me that piece of bacon. Yeah, okay. How many pieces do you want, you know?
    56:02
    And every time we take her to the vet, the vet goes, she's overweight. Yeah, it's my fault. And you're like, I know. Yeah.
    56:12
    It's the look. I don't fat shame her, and neither should you. I'm starving. I know. It's really hard. Yeah, it is really hard when it comes to animals. Like, I actually made some chicken tonight, and I actually gave both my cats a little piece of chicken, and that's the only table scrap that they get, only. And I have to limit it to that because it's very hard. It's a slippery slope. Yep. Slippery slope. So anyway. Lucy, do you have Scotch fillet steak over there? Do you know what Scotch fillet steak is? I don't. Tell me. It's probably the best steak you can get off the cow. My son was out, 20, they're out. I had three steaks and I had to cook them all last night on the barbecue. So guess who got one? Yeah. $20 steak.
    57:01
    She's going, you're not going to eat that third one, are you? No, I'm not. Boy, she's spoiled. Nothing on her, Matt. Yeah. No, she's got me wrapped around her, Paul.
    57:17
    Yeah. She is cute. Yeah. So this pinball thing, how did it all start? You said earlier you've been playing a very long time. Yeah.
    57:29
    How did it all start? Well, that's interesting. I was five years old. Skinny little five-year-old kid in a pair of Speedos. You know what Speedos are? Swim, you know. Think of the Olympic swimmers in their swimmers costumes. I know what Speedos are. It's okay. I guarantee you Drew wears one. No doubt in my mind.
    57:50
    So here I am five years old, the skinniest little kid at the beach, and I go up to, like where I grew up, we grew up on the peninsula, on the beach. So every, we had these beaches, beaches, beaches, and every beach had a hamburger shop, you know, lollies, what do you call them, candy, ice creams, and they'd have a couple of pinball machines. So this is like 72, 73 summer. And our local beach, I go up there to get my paddle pop, my chocolate paddle pop, which is, what would you call that? popsicle right okay i think so so and here's this spanish ice pinball machine okay what the hell is this and now you gotta remember i was very i think they call it today adhd i was very hyperactive very sugar sugar rich diet um but a pinball was my reset it really i look back on it now 50 years later pinball was my reset like so i was very going through school i couldn't sit still like i wound everyone up i stirred everyone up i i didn't mix well but you put me in front of a pinball machine and and that just completely changed me okay that's it yeah and so i'm standing on a milk crate down at monoval beach you know with his spanish eyes and i mean it was right at the changeover from that's what we're talking about before like two dollars a game three dollars a game it was 10 cents a game you know so yeah so we have we don't have nickel we don't have quarters our quarter is a 20 cent piece so I'm there loading this thing up with 10 cent pieces I'd uh borrowed from my mother's purse and uh so so it was basically I look back on it now that was the beginning of my therapy you know I mean I got sent to boarding school I I was I stirred up my family. If you don't behave, you're going to boarding school. The only time I ever behaved was when I was playing pinball. It just touched every nerve, every sensor.
    59:56
    And then when I went to boarding school, I mean, I'd grown up on the northern beaches and I was sent to the country like 150 miles west.
    60:05
    That's when I did find out what minus 20 degrees was. I actually saw ice frozen in the wheelbarrow in the morning in winter. But again, I mean, I remember like 79, you'd get off the train and there was a whole pinball at the hamburger shop on the corner. There was, you know, all these pinballs in the town where I was. And again, they were so therapeutic to me. So I basically played every game from like 73 right through to today, basically brand new in the box when they came out. I just seeked out pinball wherever it was. And it really calmed me down. It really, yeah.
    60:49
    I mean, my parents sent me to boarding school because I couldn't socialize when I wasn't around pinball. I just wanted to wind people up, brothers and sisters included. So pinball was therapeutic. And did you keep on playing? Yeah. Keep on playing all through school? Yeah. Never stopped? No. I mean, it's funny. There was a short period in the 80s. probably 84. I remember when Space Shuttle came out. I mean, I remember when Firepower came out. I'm sitting there in my local pinball parlor, and they wheeled Firepower in, brand new out of the box.
    61:27
    There was literally a line out the door to play that game. It was – and I think back to it now, all those people that were in that pinball parlor, I believe to this day also had social interaction problems. I think pinball is the great equalizer that allows people with certain social skills that don't fit the norm to somehow interact, you know, to find a level in their life. I would agree with that to some level, absolutely. I think it's fantastic that you find pinball to be therapeutic and that's been a big part of your life. I think that's amazing. I like to tell people, for me, pinball, like I go up and I play it and it shuts everything out because all I'm doing is playing. Is that how it is for you?
    62:22
    110%. I mean, when I'm playing pinball, and I don't know whether you know, I wrote Pinball Magazine back in early 2000, and there was an article in it that I wrote, what makes us tick.
    62:37
    And I said in it that once we're playing pinball, we forget everything. You know, I'm convinced to this day, like say back in the 80s, if you had some sort of social issue, I'll tell you a classic example. It's 1980, it's 81. Let's say it's 81. And let's say you're, let's say 81, I was 14. Now, let's say you're 14, 15, 16 in the early 80s and you're gay.
    63:08
    I don't know about there, but in Australia, if you were gay, you had no one to talk to. No one. So I can honestly see, like a young gay man, for instance, turning to pinball and forgetting all his problems. He had no one to ring. He couldn't go up to his parents. I mean, his mother would have known. I can tell you now, his mother would have known. But he couldn't tell his father. You couldn't do that then. But I can see them going and playing pinball as an outlet, as somewhere to go and try and work out their way in the world. And just be himself. Exactly. And everybody can just go and be themselves in the arcade. Yep. That's a great perspective about pinball. You can still do that. You just go where you want to be. You represent who you want and the things you love. You know, you love the monkeys. You love monkeys. You wear that. Whatever. You do your thing. Yeah. Yeah, pinball allows you to escape. Yes. Pinball, and it doesn't matter what era of game it is or wherever, I found pinball to be the great escape from whatever round, you know, like I had a lot of personal issues with my father where he was a workaholic. We never went without, but he was never home.
    64:25
    So my idea of looking for attention was to wind up other people. I don't know whether it's genetic or whatever. I don't do it now. I don't have to. I've got a wife. I've got, you know, three kids. Right.
    64:39
    I've got as much pinball as I want. Yep. But, yeah, I look back and go, well, if I didn't have pinball, I hate to think where I would be now. Huh. You know, and it's just, yeah, I think pinball is, I mean, out here, I mean, all we ever saw in the 90s was, you know, don't do drugs, blah, blah, blah. pinball is evil look at the evil people no i i honestly think pinball parlors were a therapist were an office yeah i i've heard that story before you know it's a very similar story it's not the exact one but that's it's fantastic that you just found something you know a child that's you know struggling you know going through uh rough patches and you found something that really like you said was the was the equalizer the the leveler that brought you down and kept you out of trouble, right? Yeah, it did. It did. I mean, pinball just mesmerized me. I mean, I can still remember the first game I ever played. It was just a religious experience. It was just, what is this? I couldn't take my eyes off it. I had to play it. It was amazing. And it's still there today, 50 years later. And it's amazing that I have friends who look at them and have no idea what I'm talking about.
    65:53
    Oh, you mean ping pong? I get that a lot. Yeah, yeah. I feel you because I remember the first game I played Comet, and I spent a ton of time as a child playing pinball as well. So that's a great story. I mean, glad you found pinball because, like you said, who knows where you would have ended up. So on that note, we're kind of landing the ship on the episode. Rachel, do you want to ask the most important question? Oh, I suppose I could do that. How did you get into the tribe? Oh, how did I get in the tribe? Okay, how do I put this discreetly?
    66:32
    As you know, I was in Chicago in 2019, and I was at a certain restaurant out the front of Expo, and two members of the Poor Man's Pinball Tribe were in the public facilities when I walked in and I don't think I could describe here on the podcast what I saw. Oh, no.
    67:05
    It doesn't happen in Australia anyway from what I've seen over the last 55 years. However, I was told that if I was to say nothing and see nothing that I would be accepted into the tribe. and I believe a number of weeks later an email arrived and number 24 was cast my way. Now, if you want to edit all that out, that's a total lie.
    67:38
    But it's true. We're going with it. But it is true. A lie, but it's true? I met Ian and Drew for the very first time at Expo, at that restaurant out the front of Expo. I was there with Ken Cromwell.
    67:58
    Okay. I think Zach was there. Yeah, I'm sure Zach was there. He wasn't sitting with us. I was sitting with Ken.
    68:05
    And there was a couple of other – Christopher Franchi was there with us. Okay. And Drew came out of the men's facility, let's say. He didn't have his shirt on. I mean, I could see he was wrecked. Absolutely.
    68:24
    When you get to Drew's, that's what we call out here, a Thunderbird puppet, where you've got to be held on by. And there's Ian. And I've got to say this, that was just fantastic what Ian did. just helping a mate out. He made sure, okay, the guy smashed, absolutely legless,
    68:50
    but he got it. You know, the wingman stepped up and got him home, got him back to the room. And I'll quickly tell you a funny story. My first, that 2008 trip to America to buy those machines for that millionaire, we stopped at LA on the way in. And that very first day in L.A., we were staying on Sunset Boulevard and we went to the Chop House. It was up on West Sunset Boulevard, something Chop House. And anyway, they had a mechanical bull. Okay. And I should never have got on it. particularly after about a thousand coronas and I had a god-awful cocktail. But anyway, I got back to the room about 2 a.m. and I tell you, I drove the... Do you use the term driving the porcelain bus? Yes. Sure. I've heard that, yeah. I was making long-distance calls back to Sydney on the porcelain bus. Oh!
    70:00
    and i should never have had those colored doritos the blue ones particularly when we wake up in the morning what was on the floor i can't believe i missed but anyway that's great that's the stage where uh drew was at and uh in good fashion Ian got him home.
    70:26
    So this was the urinal incident then, right? Yeah. So you witnessed the aftermath of the urinal incident. Yeah. I was there. I saw him walk out. So they paid you off. They silenced you and let you into the tribe. Wow. It may be revoked as of next week. I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. Rachel and I have all the power now. Drew has none.
    70:54
    I don't know about that. That's really funny, though. Well, you know, sometimes we do get in that state of mind where we have a really good time, you know, and it's always good when we've got friends that take care of us when we decide it's such a good time. That's awesome. That's great. That's pretty awesome. Well, I think that about wraps up the show. I have purposely not said your name the entire time. I've noticed that.
    71:21
    Rowden. Rodin Yeah I've got to change that Dan Rodin Yeah Thank you Rodin Well my brother's name's Tim so I can't screw yours up Should we call you Tim then Tim 2 Yeah What's your middle name Hugh I'm just going to call you Hugh Do that I can do Hugh Hey Yeah Hughie Thanks for being patient with us Yeah Americans It's murdering your name. But I really enjoyed getting to meet you, and it was a lot of fun. I can't wait to get back over there. I just need someone to pull the trigger, get the airplanes going. I mean, I want to go to Texas in a couple of weeks' time. I can't. I mean, a flight to Texas now is via Auckland up to Los Angeles, then to San Fran, then to Dallas. I mean, it's 28 hours. Why can't I just get a direct flight? like usual I mean I'll be back over there I'm looking forward to having a beer or a fireball with you guys absolutely have beer we'll travel I look forward to it let me know what show you're going to make when you can we'll make it there and hang out with you at this stage I'm hoping expo I'm double I've picked all the boxes so yeah just get me on an airplane and I'll be there well thank you Huey as always thank you Rachel love you guys love the tribe and happy flipping and Drew sucks at pinball
    73:20
    Ooh, you can dance, you can die Having the time of your life Ooh, see that girl, watch that scene Dig in, Dancing Queen Friday night and the lights are low