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Ep 41: Turtles, 80's Bands, and Black Panther

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·Aug 15, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

TMNT Premium Edition review: brutal but rewarding, with anticipation for JJP's Guns N' Roses release.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss their recent pinball acquisitions and collection changes, with heavy focus on Josh's new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium Edition. They analyze the game's brutal difficulty comparable to Tron, code balance by Dwight Evans, design by John Borg, and co-op multiplayer appeal. The episode also covers Jersey Jack's upcoming Guns N' Roses release and licensing considerations around mature 80s rock themes.

Key Claims

  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium Edition is comparable in difficulty to Tron, with brutal gameplay but high replayability

    high confidence · Josh Roop describes gameplay experience after 30-40 games over multiple days; Jack Danger streaming comparison mentioned

  • TMNT Pro version lacks a diverter/Rafael flyer but remains a complete game without it

    high confidence · Josh compares Pro vs Premium features; references Slam Tilt podcast discussion of diverter usability

  • Guns N' Roses is the next Jersey Jack Pinball release after Wonka

    high confidence · Scott describes it as 'worst kept secret in pinball'; both hosts confirm this is widely anticipated but not officially announced by JJP

  • TMNT is designed as a brutally difficult game in response to community criticism of Munsters being too easy

    high confidence · Josh: 'they're finally like, fine then. We'll do a hard game' in reference to complaints about Munsters code philosophy

  • Guns N' Roses theme is atypical for Jersey Jack due to mature lyrical content and licensing complexity

    medium confidence · Scott expresses concern about theme polarization and references Data East Guns N' Roses with problematic artwork; unsure how JJP will 'massage' mature content

  • TMNT co-op mode is a major appeal, allowing up to 4 players with 12 balls total instead of 3

    high confidence · Josh extensively describes co-op gameplay with his son Carter, who now plays co-op instead of video games

  • Eric Meunier designed Pirates of the Caribbean and is designing JJP's next game (likely Guns N' Roses)

    medium confidence · Josh references Eric as designer of Pirates; notes he was first official industry interview guest; speculates on his next project

  • Jersey Jack is selling off defective playfields as art pieces at ~$300 each

    high confidence · Josh saw Facebook post and purchased Hobbit playfield; confirms this is JJP's secondary market strategy

Notable Quotes

  • “It's brutal. I would not recommend this if it's your first game... it's a brutal version of Tron.”

    Josh Roop @ Early game review segment — Initial assessment of TMNT difficulty level and comparison point for audience expectations

  • “The artwork is, as Christopher Frenchy would say, knocked out of the park. Borg's design is fantastic.”

    Josh Roop @ TMNT review — Praise for John Borg's playfield design; reference to Christopher Franchi's design philosophy

  • “Raphael all day. That's what do they say in Game of Thrones? Isn't it like a... Yeah, Martel all day.”

    Josh Roop @ TMNT strategy discussion — Identifies Raphael as optimal turtle selection for game mechanics

  • “It's replaced his video game time. Which never happens.”

    Josh Roop @ Co-op discussion — Emphasizes TMNT's accessibility and appeal to non-hardcore players, particularly his son Carter

  • “The whole game turns red and then the LCD turns into a big pizza that says eat pizza now, you know what to do instantly kind of thing.”

    Josh Roop @ Premium edition features discussion — Describes pizza eating mode UI clarity despite button-mashing mechanic criticism

  • “I seriously looked at it and went, I have to get myself a JJP game. They are just on a whole different level.”

    Scott Larson @ Hobbit discussion — Endorsement of Jersey Jack's overall quality and immersive experience vs competitors

  • “It's the worst kept secret in pinball is that Guns N' Roses will be the next game there.”

    Scott Larson @ Upcoming releases discussion — Confirmation of industry-wide knowledge about JJP's next release without official announcement

  • “Guns N' Roses, okay, I grew up in the Guns N' Roses era... I don't know how like okay the lyrics of the bands in the 80s were certainly would not pass muster on today's standards.”

    Scott Larson — Raises legitimate licensing and content appropriateness concerns about mature rock theme

Entities

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium EditionproductJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonJohn BorgpersonDwight EvanspersonChristopher FranchipersonJack DangerpersonEric Meunierperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: TMNT co-op mode is highly effective at converting non-hardcore players and competing with video game time, particularly for younger audiences

    high · Josh: 'It's replaced his video game time. Which never happens... he'll turn to me and say, Dad, let's go play co-op mode.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: TMNT positioned as high-difficulty tournament game similar to Game of Thrones; scoring range 0.5-5M for standard games, potentially 200M+ on April hurry-up jackpots

    high · Josh: 'I think it will fit very well... I think it will be like a Game of Thrones'; detailed scoring analysis provided

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern intentionally designed TMNT as brutally difficult in direct response to community criticism that Munsters code was too easy

    high · Josh: 'they're finally like, fine then. We'll do a hard game.' Acknowledges Borg and Dwight 'got so much crap on Munsters about it being too easy'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Guns N' Roses licensing presents content appropriateness challenges for Jersey Jack due to mature 80s rock lyrics and artwork that may not fit modern standards or some locations

    high · Scott expresses concerns about mature lyrical content and references Data East GnR art; questions how JJP will 'massage it'; notes risk of polarizing family venues

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack selling off defective/second-quality playfields as art pieces at ~$300 suggests inventory clearance or production optimization

    high · Josh: 'Jersey Jack was selling off their seconds, which is brilliant... I bought a Hobbit playfield for 300 bucks' via Facebook post

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.268

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 34 close we are on episode 41 my co-captain is always scott larson let's start out first and foremost with uh zach and nicole at flipping out pinball a great resource to buy new in box pinball machines and also toppers, a topper update in our discussion later today. Very nice. Yeah, give Zach a call. He's great to work with. Also, This Week in Pinball, if you want to get that itch to check out the all things pinball and get it distilled down into one easy page, just go ahead and check out This Week in Pinball. A great way to keep you up to date. Also, Rattle Up Frames, a great way to display all those translights that have been collecting dust. underneath your pinball machines, go ahead and light them up and put them around your pinball room to make it a little more arcade-like. Also, if you're interested in trying to spruce up those old titles, go ahead and check out Brian Allen at Flyland Designs, and he can give you the licensed update or his take on three classic themes, including Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, and Monster Bash. And I hear other ones are coming up. So classics are great, too. Sometimes it's fun to spice it up. Yeah, I don't know who told you what was coming because they didn't tell us tell me anything. So, yeah, but no. Yeah. Check all those people out. Fantastic people.
1:44
Let's should we dive into the news or should we dive into our personal lives first? You know, let's let's kind of do a recap of what's been going on. So let's talk about updates to the game room. So we haven't done that in a while. I actually sold one of my favorite games. I sold Iron Man. I can't believe you sold that, by the way. That was a beautiful machine. I know. And really, I it was one of those where it was my friend. He I started taking tennis about four months ago and I met him, this tennis coach. He's a local guy through another pinball friend, the guy who I bought my Jurassic Park through. and he has started collecting pinball machines and he came over when we opened up jurassic park down here and he helped me move it down and he is really into superhero themes and he loved my x-men and he loved iron man and i he said would you ever be interested in selling it and i thought about it for a while and i said you know yeah actually uh i feel like i've played it enough it's one of those games where I love it it's a great go-to but in some ways you know how you have that album that you always go to because you just love listening to that album and sometimes other albums can suffer because you really like that one album sometimes you have to just move on and say I want to try different things so he it was a customized Iron Man it was a high end one it was a refinery edition So they've done a lot of customization on it. And in some ways, those things are great. However, you have to find the right buyer for something like that because it is a little more expensive than your standard one. So but I gave him a great deal. It's in his basement and it's two blocks away from my house. Very nice. That's the way to go. So, you know, it's still it's still great. And X-Men should be leaving sometime this month. Need to double check on that guy. the guy bought it from he wanted to buy it back and it just it helps me par down things a little bit um still waiting to hear from my uh zach when sorry when teenage mutant ninja turtles the premium edition will be shipping but uh i've been having fun and i've been kind of busy with uh getting ready for school so that's what's been going on uh i also ordered a few toppers but we'll talk about that a little later go ahead josh what have you been going on as far as my collection goes uh we talked about i got rid of monster bash in june i was very sad to see it go went to a wonderful home uh steve hill uh the gentleman that's over the professional disc golf association podcast if you haven't checked that out and you're into disc golf why haven't you checked it out yet um but he sends me updates every once in a while like you know loving the game and you know got to monsters of rock or still trying to get to it's really cool it's kind of like watching a child go but still be able to you know check up on it every once in a while and then i got the text last wednesday from zach at flipping out saying hey your game has shipped it's a three-day shipping to utah uh you'll see you'll see it on monday and so i was like an anxious little kid on monday debating whether i should call in sick to work so i could play it all day but i knew if i called in sick that i would be doing honey do's instead of working so I just went to work anyway.
@ Guns N' Roses concerns
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Guns N' Roses (upcoming pinball)product
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
Carterperson
Lyman Sheetsperson
Steve Bowenperson
  • ?

    personnel_signal: John Borg designed both Walking Dead and TMNT playfields; Christopher Franchi established as industry standard for artwork quality

    high · Josh praises Borg's design and attributes 'Christopher Frenchy' reference as standard for excellence; acknowledges Borg faced criticism on Munsters

  • ?

    announcement: Guns N' Roses confirmed as next Jersey Jack release after Wonka; widely known but not officially announced by manufacturer

    high · Scott: 'It's the worst kept secret in pinball is that Guns N' Roses will be the next game there.' Both hosts treat as industry knowledge.

  • ?

    product_strategy: TMNT Premium Edition differentiator is diverter/Rafael flyer mechanism, but Pro version remains complete game without it for cost savings

    high · Josh states Pro version 'is a very complete game without the diverter'; references Slam Tilt feedback on diverter positioning and center button distance issues

  • ?

    product_concern: TMNT left ramp is difficult to hit compared to other Stern machines; requires precise timing and is essential for multiple modes including episode start and team-up

    high · Josh: 'the left ramp is a pain in the butt to hit... it's just a little later on the right flipper than most left ramps.' Jack Danger confirmed same complaint on stream.

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Eric Meunier speculated to be designing Jersey Jack's next game following Pirates of the Caribbean, likely Guns N' Roses

    medium · Josh: 'I am excited to see Eric Meunier's second game' but clarifies 'no one's told us'; hosts acknowledge they're speculating without inside information

    • 5:17
    But I got it home. When I got home, there was no one else home, so I hurried and wheeled it into the house, got it all set up, and played a couple games before the family even showed up. I love it.
    5:29
    But, man, I won't talk about that right now. Maybe we'll talk about a review, or we can talk about it now. I don't know. You know, let's cycle it. Let's do a quick flyby, and then we'll do a deep dive. Okay. It's brutal. I would not recommend this if it's your first game uh the reason being is i think when they built this game they really took co-op into consideration because it's like it is brutal but you can go into co-op and then you technically have 12 balls instead of just the three um so i've really enjoyed that at first i was very confused on some of the rules because the rule card doesn't really tell you stuff and so I was very discombobulated the first evening I had it because I just I didn't know what I was doing. But overall, I love everything. The artwork is, as Christopher Frenchy would say, knocked out of the park.
    6:25
    Borg's design is fantastic. It's just a brutal version of Tron. Well, not just like, but just the filling of that left shot. and I've heard complaints about the code being unbalanced. Now that I further understand the game, I understand where a lot of the score is coming from and so I don't feel like it's unbalanced it's just if you get going in a multi-ball you can really rack up some points if you're paying attention. I think it's a very well-rounded game, especially right out of the gate.
    7:00
    They started shipping these in what, end of May, June? somewhere no sorry we're in the three month cycle yeah so so uh they started shipping in june that's what it was june july um because we put our orders in at the beginning of june and uh yeah i i really have no complaints uh it does have the dwight problem where it blinds you and some of the light stuff um but other than that man like it's it's really great game so yeah cool um that that will be interesting i i'm interested to try it out have you uh have you noticed uh that man i wish there were a a diverter on there or the rafael flyer or do you feel that it's a complete game you don't feel like you're missing anything by have not having that premium version i feel like it's a very complete game without the diverter um i don't know if you listened to slam tilt last week or may was this week um but ron i can't remember if it was ron or bruce i apologize but they went out they also they played the premium and the pro and and the problem is is that center button is too far away the game's just too fast then they never even really noticed using the diverter me myself personally if you could get used to using the diverter i think it could be an advantage because when you're making a lot of shots nothing comes safely back to the left flipper yes no one of the flippers left flipper that's what it is the only only shot that comes back safely to the left flipper is the side ramp which for some odd reason in the game they call the center ramp but it's actually the side ramp and so it's almost like well I would prefer not to shoot the side ramp because if I miss then it's very dangerous. And so there's not really a safe, safe return to the left flipper. So if you have that diverter, you could shoot the right ramp and divert it back to the left flipper, if that makes sense. Right. Well, and that's the whole point of having the diverter is you being able to select the shots and being able to, to guide it a little more. It's the same thing with having the walking dead where you, you know, you have the Walker bombs or you have the crossbow. It's just one more way of controlling the game yeah well i was talking to jack danger tonight because he's been playing it on stream for like a month and a half now and he says it's it's just as brutal as probably black knight and i i would not disagree with him it's it's pretty brutal it's um but it's really really fun that's the thing uh out of all the turtles i found that rafael's the best really none of the others give you perks that are super fantastic raf rafael all day that's What do they say in Game of Thrones? Isn't it like a... Yeah, Martel all day. It's Raphael all day on this one.
    9:56
    But no, seriously, it's a really fantastic game. I'm very happy with the end result. I've probably dropped... Every free moment I've gotten this week, I've put time in on it. I've dropped maybe 30, 40 games on it so far.
    10:12
    Maybe more. There's little things that I'm loving. The one thing that it does not explain to you is how to start an episode. And it's just left ramp, right ramp or right ramp, left ramp. And you shoot the pizza parlor, which is the shot right under the turtle van. Because for the longest time, like, how do I even start an episode? Yeah. And it just it never said. So I was like, I'm reading the scorecard and the scorecards like to do an episode, shoot the start episode at the turtle van. I'm like, well, that's great. But how do I light the light it? You know, right. Yeah. And so there's some stuff too, like one, two, three foot just starts randomly. Well, not randomly, sorry. If it comes through the left in lane, it just starts. And in Dwight fashion, all the lights change. It's very cool. The music changes and whatnot. But it seems like once you get into that hurry up, everything else kind of stops.
    11:11
    And it happens a lot. and so have you tried the pin shades on it i i have not yet yeah you need to try the pin shades and uh circle around good point i've been waiting for the uh one of my games to not have a air glass on it and so i have still uh wanted to try the pin shades in a home environment and see what the difference is between that and the air glass so i'm gonna i'll definitely do that the next couple days and then we can report back because I don't know why. Every time I've played, I've just played.
    11:46
    The other cool part too is my son and I are just a loving co-op. Carter seriously wakes up and comes down and turns on the pinball machine and plays all day long. He'll play a handful of games and then go outside. He comes back and he plays a handful of games and he goes upstairs. It's replaced his video game time. Which never happens. Yeah, that's what I want to happen. Yeah. And so it's been really fun to say, like, he'll turn to me and say, Dad, let's go play co-op mode. Boom, let's do it. And it's really cool because we'll choose our turtles. We'll do all four. And then our whole goal is to get to the mini wizard mode, which is if you complete four episodes, you start team up, which is just a two-ball, multi-ball. And then depending on what turtle you are, you team up with a certain, like, Raph is Casey Jones. That's how it's always been.
    12:39
    Leo's Splinter, Mikey's the Neutrinos, and then Donatello's Metalhead. And so if you get to that and if it's before, say, the last person on ball three, obviously, if they start, no one else is going to get it. But say you get it on the, like, even on ball three, the first person gets it, then everyone else gets it. Like, you all get the opportunity to start it. And so it's really fun because we'll get to it. and like usually on ball too and and uh like yeah we're gonna do this and so and then every time we start team up we like check it out and it just it's really cool everything's it's very similar to monster bash in the way that everything is kind of color coordinated um in the new monster bath cgc where you know if you shoot mummy it turns orange if you shoot dracula it turns red this one it's similar like when you're in one two three foot everything kind of turns to like a red hue um team ups kind of like a red hue uh it's just it's really cool how dwight has coded in the lights with it and it does does fantastic it really is it's i am there's nothing in my opinion there's nothing to complain about because my collection is world cup soccer which i feel like is a very beginner game it draws people in and then attack from mars which is more of a novice Like people are beginners can enjoy it. But like, if you understand, like shoot the ramps and stuff can get you, you know, annihilation, total annihilation, then, you know, people benefit being a novice from that. I feel like Ninja trolls is my expert game, but it's not unfriendly to the point that like my son, who's not die hard into pinball still loves playing it. So it just, it's great. The music's great. Like artwork's great. I have really no complaints. And that's not coming from – I mean, everyone knows I'm a massive Ninja Turtles fan. I really feel like Borg got so much crap and Dwight got so much crap on Munsters about it being too easy.
    14:38
    It's more of a 90s game because of the code and da-da-da-da. So they're finally like, fine then. We'll do a hard game.
    14:44
    But it's definitely a challenge. How do you think this will fit into tournament play? I think it will fit very well with I think it will be like a Game of Thrones and I don't think the premium will change much between I mean obviously you'll want the pro because you have less problems of it breaking down it is probably one of those games if you know to do the thing you know I'm learning that the April hurry ups the right side that one stand up it's not worth going for in a single ball mode but you get a long enough ball saver in any multi-ball just start attacking the april hurry up and start april hurry up and then shoot the shot especially in multi-ball it usually like doubles or triples the score so okay this is a very million point game so you know end of the game you should see anywhere from like a million to five million points uh on just maybe a basic game uh a really crappy game like half a million uh april hurry up for some odd reason not in a multi balls like 200 million or 200 000 points uh i've gotten april hurry up to 2 million points and and that's like 12 times a jackpot and so it just it just depends um i don't know i like it too because it's called the little oh you've completed because it's got cowabunga wizard mo which was like the valhalla or the uh the rule the universe and so uh it's got i think eight different things you've got to complete and uh i usually complete about four or five each each game i'm playing some of them aren't super hard but some of them are kind of like the april hurry up we were just talking about you can only complete one of those and then you have to start an episode it won't let you just keep completing april hurry ups because you're supposed to complete five as one of the end and things uh so that's kind of that kind of stinks but i under i understand where dwight's coming from and he doesn't want you just going april all day right uh and just just getting points after points after points in it so yeah i yeah he certainly doesn't want to have uh it be a one trip pony i mean you know i'm like the monster fish or something like that so that's all people do um you want to force people to move around the around the play field so to speak and that's uh what keith ellen talked about when he was starting with iron maiden where you know it starts off with easy shots up the middle and then he's pushing you to do the more challenging shots left or right so uh it's a keeper for me and i'm totally happy with the pro um i personally me uh i don't feel there's much difference between the pro and the premium besides the diverter. And like I said, there's an eat pizza mode. Like all of a sudden, there's like a little pizza target up in between the pizza parlor and the pot bumpers. And I don't know how you start this. And I just seem to start it randomly. But you got to hit the button like 40 times to eat 40 slices of pizza. You got to do it under like six seconds. Okay, that makes me want to throw up right now.
    18:04
    But I've learned if you're skilled enough, the layer shot on the left that's behind the flipper, which is super hard to hit, if you can make that shot, you can pound away on the button without having to worry about – it will actually hold the ball for you during pizza eating mode. So you can pound away on that center button, and it gives you like 1.5 million points if you can do the 40 slices of pizza in like three seconds or whatever it is. Okay. There's some good strategy to it. I know people hate the button mashing thing. I know like Pirates of the Caribbean got crap for that because it's like the collect gold. You got to slap the button.
    18:42
    Pizza eating doesn't happen enough. It actually catches you off guard. But because the whole game turns red and then the LCD turns into a big pizza that says eat pizza now, you know what to do instantly kind of thing. Okay. Well, that's good. um yeah like i said i actually ended up i played it for two or three days and then i finally went to watch one of the dead flip streams just to kind of get an idea of of certain things that were going on in the game um there's the crane combos which is an inner loop and then the side ramp and i'm like how do you get a max crane combo and he's like you do three inner loops and then you do a side ramp. And so if you get the timing down, it's not too terribly hard to do. If I really concentrate, I can do it. I like it because it's forcing me to stage flip, especially multi-ball. And so I thought I would hate that and I found out I'm better at it than I thought I knew. So it's been pretty cool to stage flip and hit that side ramp.
    19:48
    Weirdly enough, the left ramp is a pain in the butt to hit. I don't know what it is. it's just a little later on the, on the right flipper than most left ramps. And so you're either too early or too late. It feels like like even, even Jack danger talked about this. He's like, I hate shooting the left ramp. Cause, and the problem is, is you've got to shoot the left ramp to start an episode. You've got to shoot the left ramp to do team up. You've got to shoot the left ramp to, to complete one, two, three foot. Like it's, you can't avoid it. So you, you have to learn to hit it kind of thing. It's not like, it's not like Jurassic park where you can hit the left ramp with no problem because elwin made it that way right he he wanted you to shoot the t-rex shot because he wanted at least one easy shot and that's not it on ninja turtles and the problem is too is is you've got no safe shots to the right or not safe shots sorry when you plunge it's either into the pops or it comes all the way around the orbit to the left flipper so it's not really safe to go to the right flipper to shoot the left ramp either it's not a very safe game on a lot of shot so okay and then the right ramp so close that when you shoot it it just kind of if you don't hit it it sends it right back to you your flipper right down the middle so you've got to you got to hit the right ramp so okay all right but well it sounds like it sounds like it's a brutal game but a keeper game and and it sounds a little well a lot like tron in that tron i feel is a brutal game that even if you have a good game you're still probably five five or ten minutes uh it's rare that you'll actually have a longer game than that i agree well even like iron man you just got rid of iron man yeah same thing yeah i think this will fit nicely where your iron man was because it's it's very similar to that okay well that's good it'll be my next game that i play all the time yep so i don't think they actually need uh like with jurassic park they have the escape Nublar, I'm seriously getting maybe five minute, ten minute games out of this.
    21:49
    Unless I put it on four player co-op. I actually feel that's good though. In many ways, I like the long player occasionally, but usually when I play a long player game, I play one game. If I play Lord of the Rings, I'll play one game and I thought, you know what, that was fun. I did a lot of stuff and it took a lot of time. Okay, what's the next game? Well, it's just – It doesn't – yeah, it doesn't feel like you can just rinse and repeat quickly. Well it just like we were talking about Hobbit the other day So my cousin lives down the road and he now married into the family It nice to have someone in the family that does pinball And he bought a Hobbit when it came out. The wonderful part about that game, it's very relaxing because you never feel like you're in danger in that game, in my opinion. Because it's a wide body, so it's already floaty. And there's a center post. And so it's like all the shots are right up the middle. I mean you can backhand almost every single shot on that game and I played a game I played let's see I played three games it took me an hour and a half yeah 30 minute games per game is is crazy in my opinion like I don't have none of my lineup is that way like even world cup soccer a 20 minute game usually gets you to the the the final tournament or whatever it is world the world championship yeah and so it's it's nice to have i think it's nice to have fast games i i don't mind the long playing game like you said like a wizard of oz or a hobbit or something like that i just don't play them enough so yeah and it's challenging because really you have to know a lot about all the different modes and really it's it's kind of like having that video game where um i'm you know I'm cool with pulling up the old NES and doing the up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, and getting 30 guys and playing through it and calling it good. But there are some people who want to collect every medallion. They want to collect every single thing. And I'm not really that guy. I like just getting through a game and enjoying it.
    23:57
    So it's unlikely that I will ever get to Valinor just because it's unlikely that I will spend the time to learn the deep rule set like that. Well, can we talk about Valinor for a second? Because Lord of the Rings, it got put into the bowling alley here. And I have honestly never spent a ton of time on Lord of the Rings. Everyone touts it as the best game ever made.
    24:19
    And it is – it's a good game. Don't get me wrong. It's a good game, yeah. Well, okay, it's a great game. It's a great game. It really is a great game. It's the perfect nexus of a great layout with great code and great theme. the thing about Valinor is the only way you're getting to it is if you actually complete modes and it's the same with Ninja Turtles well I don't know if actually Ninja Turtles I don't think you have to complete the modes to actually get to the wizard mode I could be wrong but I haven't been to final battle yet so but like in Lord of the Rings it punishes you if you do not finish the mode it's like if you want to get to Valinor you have to finish the mode and I feel like those maybe it's the one that's at the bowling alley those modes are a grind like i have a hard time playing those games because it's just like what's the mode where you have to shoot the the tower up the middle because the trees are bashing the the tree folk are bashing the the dam do you remember i i don't i don't know the rules that well on on lord of the rings since i haven't played it that much i've never owned one i swear you have to make that shot like eight or ten times and You've got to do it in 30 seconds, and it doesn't slow down the timer. And it's just, if you don't complete that mode, it's kind of a letdown. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, like I said, I don't know if that's how it is with Cowabunga. I think you just have to start the modes and just don't drain.
    25:49
    But with Team Up, for every mode that you complete, it gives you a bonus. All right. It's nice to complete the modes, but yeah. Okay.
    26:02
    I don't know. We were talking about Hobbit this past week, and I think it's an all right game. Like, don't get me wrong. No, it's fine. It's one of those where it's fine. I will say no other game has that immersive experience because you feel with the movie clips and the big screen, you're feeling like you're going through it. The one challenge, one of the main things is there's not much variety in the play field. And a lot of the – even though there's a billion modes, they all feel kind of samey. And sadly, that just doesn't keep your attention over time. But the thing about The Hobbit though, when I was finished playing The Hobbit, I seriously looked at it and went, I have to get myself a JJP game. right they are just on a whole different level when you're playing a pinball experience and that's no slam against any of the other companies but seriously like the sound system the the big screen compared to these other screens the full screen tv i mean it's there's just something immersive even about the hobbit i mean if you're looking for a first game and you want one i i would recommend the hobbit and the reason being is it it's fairly nice to beginning players it is long playing so you know that does have against it but the price tag I've seen these easily around $6,000 a little less a little more what other game are you going to get that price with that much code that's that playable you know what I'm saying I get it I wouldn't categorize it as a first game just because it doesn't have as much variety as some of the other ones that I would say fit better into it. But it certainly is. It's a lot of pin for your buck. Yes. And actually just transitioning, I saw it on Facebook today that Deep Root was selling playfields, the seconds, the non-playable playfields, but you can buy them for art. And I jumped on it. I thought, this is great. So I bought a Hobbit playfield for 300 bucks. You mean Jersey Jack. You said Deep Root. Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry. I meant Jersey Jack. No, you're fine. Yeah, so Jersey Jack was selling off their seconds, which is brilliant because a lot of people want this type of art, even though you can't – there's something about the play field that wouldn't be functional. But what a great piece of art that you can have and for, I would say, a very reasonable price to be able to buy that and put it on the wall. So I'm super excited about that. No, I don't blame you. I'm slightly jealous.
    28:45
    I have nowhere to hang it, though, at this point. Yeah, I don't either, but I'll figure it out. You should ship it over to Tilt Cycle and have him mount it for you with lights and everything. Yeah. I don't know. I think I just want the basic just looking at it the way it is. I think that would be really cool. Or just put a light behind there so you can see everything lit up. I don't know. I'll tell you when I get it, but I'm very interested to see what happens. I always admire the Jersey Jack. I don't know if it's someone's office or just like their room, but whenever they do pictures and like when they were doing the streams of pirates, that whole room is just covered in play fields of all different companies. It's really cool. Yeah, and that's a great way of just seeing different things out there. So I'm excited for it. Yeah. So I'm excited for you. Yeah. So let's talk about some other things. So, and Jersey Jackets, it's been a little while since Hobbit was released. So everybody's anticipating that the likely next release is Guns N' Roses. You mean Wonka because that was the last release, not Hobbit. Oh, geez. Okay. You know what? I am a little tired tonight. Dude, I don't blame you. Yeah. So Wonka was released, and now we're just kind of waiting for – it's the worst kept secret in pinball is that Guns N' Roses will be the next game there.
    30:15
    But what are you looking forward to? This is the thing about Guns N' Roses is it seems very un-Jersey Jack-like.
    30:25
    I am excited to see Eric Meunier's second game. Dude, Eric, I know you listen every once in a while. dude seriously love parrots of the caribbean i'm stoked for this dude like i don't know what it is i don't know if it's because he was on head to head and he's just a really nice genuine guy mate because he was our very first like official in the industry like interview i cannot wait to see what this dude has like i i support eric 100 because he just he's got new ideas that i don't think the industry has seen yet i mean that upper play field with the rocking pirate ship i can't wait to see what he's got for guns and roses or sorry his next project like no one's told us okay well we can speculate we don't have any inside information so it's not like we're breaking an nda um yeah yeah the obvious effects are guns and roses would be an interesting thing I find it interesting, though, in that you run the risk of polarizing if you get a theme that won't go everywhere. Everything else they've had can go on location, go into a home, all audiences. Guns N' Roses, okay, I grew up in the Guns N' Roses era. It happened to be the first concert that I saw was Guns N' Roses. uh but i i don't know how like okay the lyrics of the bands in the 80s were certainly would certainly not pass muster on today's standards we talk about rocket queen everyone should know rocket queen and yeah we're not going we're not going over the lyrics there but uh there's a lot of those things where i'm just like yeah i it'll be interesting to see how they massage it because even the day to east one i there's there's a lot of art on there that just simply would never get into my house and i think there's a lot of places like that you know and i would say that's uh the pinball culture is shifting uh some people are are pushing against that but the bottom line is there's a lot of stuff that just was considered at least acceptable or passable back then they just would not pass now so i agree the music can be questionable depending on which songs they choose and the art certainly it'll be interesting to see how they try to thread that needle okay let's what's the biggest question in my mind though is is which axl rose are we getting are we getting the 80s axl rose are we getting the mama fortelli from goonies axl rose yeah yeah yeah it's it it'll be it'll be kind of appetite for destruction if really if you look at everything they've done um they have one great album and yeah okay all the guns and roses fanboys out there can pass the hate mail to josh because he reads it anyway um but i really they had an amazing groundbreaking first album and everything else wasn't everything else was meh it really there There was nothing else that you listened to. It was like, oh, that is an amazing song. If the first album did not exist, their career would have been, I want to say forgettable, but passable. Yeah. You're not telling me Chinese democracy would put them back on the map? Oh, geez. No doubt. Well, that's been the longstanding joke of – actually, do you know what's insulting about Chinese democracy? Is they spent over 10 years and millions upon millions of dollars making this absolutely forgettable album. And the Rolling Stones saw it and they and they rated it and they rated it a great album. And that just shows you how ridiculous, well, basically the editors at Rolling Stones are where they actually don't have the stones to actually say, hey, this is a crap album. And Guns N' Roses, they're basically a cover band of their previous glory. Like they don't have anything else to offer other than playing their old hits. Yeah. Well, I guess the biggest question, though, is to if you were to do a playlist for Guns N' Roses, Guns N' Roses pinball machine beside what do you pick outside of appetite for destruction because you got welcome to the jungle which is a give me you've got paradise city which is a give me you've got sweet child of mine which is a give me i mean knock on heaven's door what else do you do you know what you'll probably have a november rain in there probably but are those songs too slow for pinball like knock on heaven's door november rain like you could be mine seriously The other stuff that came out, You Could Be Mine.
    35:00
    Okay, it came out with one of the Terminator movies. So great. Cool. Then they had Civil War. Okay, great.
    35:08
    Yeah, it's Patience. Maybe they can do a ballad in there. That would be great. Would it be wrong to have My Michelle in there? I love My Michelle. The lyrics are not appropriate at all. Do you remember? Yeah. Do you remember the lyrics? Because there's zero chance they'll have that. It's So Easy is a great song. But again, you'd have to have the edited version on that. It would be just bleeped out. What's Mr. Brownstone? Why not that one? You know what? They may have – yeah, they may have Mr. Brownstone even though there's obvious drug connotations. Come on. Seriously, Rocket Queen, you don't want to have a girl moaning inside your pinball room. Oh, yeah. Wow.
    35:45
    I swear that bridge goes on for two, three minutes, and it's just that. But anyhow. Yeah. There are some of those songs where you're like, yeah, no. So anyway, it'll be interesting to see. I'm fascinated to see what Eric's come out. He certainly hit a grand slam the first time up, and I'm interested to see the sophomore effort. And it'll be interesting to see how it is. Again, just because of the theme, No Chance is Coming to my house, but I hope they sell a billion of them. I might actually buy it. I don't know. Okay. It's going to have to come out. I'm going to have to take a look at it. I mean, it's not a first-day purchase. It might be, but I grew – the problem is, okay, so my parents split when I was five, and my biological father is really into country music. He likes Collective Soul and stuff like that. That's not country. I know, but Garth Brooks, stuff like that. I'm saying the furthest out of country he got was Collective Soul and Creed. All right. And when my stepfather showed up – By the way, we were just talking about like all the Nickelback haters. Like Nickelback actually has some good songs. Do you know which band they should have been mocking to no end as Creed? It's true. Like basically Creed should get all the hate that Nickelback gets. Yeah. But when my stepdad showed up, he brought Megadeth. He brought Metallica. He brought Guns N' Roses. I mean – Okay. So I grew up on that stuff. Like so – Yeah, and I think my dad thought the world was going to hell when we started playing all that stuff in the 80s.
    37:20
    Well, seriously. Yeah, we had Kiss posters on the wall and Iron Maiden posters on the wall, and I think my dad thought that we were just – we were a lost generation. Dude, it's so funny. So I DJed the Sweet 16 Birthday Party when I was like 18 because I was a radio DJ at that point. and the father we start playing uh like a panic at the disco song and he's like can you be believe the lyrics in these songs nowadays and i said whoa whoa hold on two seconds you look like you're from the zz top era aren't you and you love zz top why do you even say that and i said pearl necklace the lyrics there and he's like yeah okay we'll call it even yeah well i think they were a little more creative back then and you listen to all the acbc songs they are not hiding what they're singing about yeah um so so here's a question um say how many bands from the 80s that haven't had a pinball machine that you would consider great candidates like what like just 80s yeah just think about it because we are in we are in the 80s renaissance right the new renaissance of the 80s um i don't i feel like all of them not all of them but would it be too far to go say mega death yeah i i make mega death had some really good stuff but they'll always be considered a second reign metallica yeah true okay so what about the slayer yeah yeah woo uh raided blood yeah okay i again i'm surprised they made iron maiden and i'm a fan of iron maiden so actually ironically read iron maiden lyrics they're actually pretty tame yeah they really are they are super tame compared to uh all the other stuff um okay so here off the top of my head these are the bands that i would love to see a pinball machine made of i'd love see Van Halen. Yes. I, that would be a great pinball machine and you could go with what they would have to do is they'd have to go with classic Van Halen. However, uh, you know, I'm one of those guys who actually thought they, they had some more complete stuff with Van Hagar, but you know, it's, it's fine. Uh, I would say one of, uh, maybe it's that teenage guy in me, but one of the most inspirational songs from that era i would say is right now from ben halen um another band again this would be hard but hey if they're doing guns and roses motley crew yeah i i don't see any especially since they came out with the motley crew um biography movie or whatever on the dirt oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's uh but i mean that's there are there's a lot of issues that you would have to thread the needle but if they can thread the needle with guns and roses they could probably thread the needle with uh with motley crew yeah um another band though that this is pre-packaged sell it art is already done and you would sell out of them journey yeah journey would i don't know i I don't know why Journey is not made right now. It might be not metal enough. I don't know how else to put it. Well, I guess they did Aerosmith, but still. I don't think it has to be metal. I just think it has to be popular. And Journey would be prepackaged and ready to sell. Another one, Def Leppard. Def Leppard should have a pinball machine. Yeah. They absolutely should. And all these bands are on a 401k tour right now. I mean, all they're doing is going and playing all their 80 stuff. So if they want, I guarantee they would take money for a license to do this stuff. And I of those bands, though, I think Journey's the sure thing. I agree. Oh, come on. What about Pantera? Huh? Yeah.
    41:23
    Cowboys from Hell. You know, there are a lot of bands out there that I recognize there is talent. I totally get there's talent. it's just not for me um this metal band was big they started before the 80s they were 70s 80s but why haven't we done a black sabbath one yet yeah yeah it's the thing about black sabbath is it doesn't have those catchy tunes oh come on okay can you really play uh can you really imagine iron man as a background of pinball i that thing sounds like it was played with molasses yeah it's super slow you could be paranoid maybe crazy train okay that's ozzy osbourne oh sorry okay let's do black sabbath slash ozzy osbourne okay well let's do a ronnie james dio game yeah why not yeah i don't know there's a there's a lot of good there's a lot of good 80s bands that deserve a pinball machine there's actually 80 solo artists i i know that okay i know that uh this would be impossible to make given all of the baggage but a michael jackson thriller pinball machine would have been great yeah why not choose priest huh yeah okay i yes they were They had like three major hits. They were great, but it's not the same. Like they are not the same. You have to have that arena rock where you can sell like a stadium to qualify to actually do this. Okay. I've got the perfect band. And if you could tie the light show together with the music, it would be perfect because people pay for this light show. They don't even pay for the band anymore. They pay just to go see a light show of the band and the music. Okay, they're not doing Pat Benatar. Sorry. I know you're an LE, but –
    43:28
    Pink Floyd. Yeah. Okay. Pink Floyd is in the same category as Rush, and I am a huge Rush fan. I cannot see them making a Rush pinball machine. I think Pink Floyd is more likely than Rush. Yeah, it's just – I'm sorry. There's nothing that gets your adrenaline pumping.
    43:48
    It's just – I don't think so. Money is fantastic, brick in the wall. I mean there's so much good material across all their albums. I think there is. But if you look at every single music pin out there, it's fast or catchy. And even the Beatles, like those are fast songs that they selected to put in there.
    44:09
    And so all of those songs, they are the stand-up out of your chair or out of your seat. and enjoy the music. They are intended to get your adrenaline going. I still think Madonna would be a great one, like a classic Madonna one. All right, Frenchie. No, I'm very serious about that. And I think that she would really sell.
    44:36
    I think Pink would be good. But now we getting outside of where the discussion was going Yeah exactly What about Spinal Tap That would be hilarious Yeah Big bottoms That would be great. That's the one I'm going for from the 80s. Yeah. Jeez. Yeah, Spinal – this is Spinal Tap. Do you know what they could do? And I know they would never do it. A Princess Bride game. Yep. I don't know. They might. I think there's enough. Oh, no. It's a huge fan base, but it's – maybe. I would love to see inconceivable multiball.
    45:12
    Or just start screaming, inconceivable! That would be hilarious. Or inconceivable frenzy, where just every switch hit yells inconceivable. Yeah, exactly. That would be great. Okay, we've totally went off the rails. We've been talking about media. It's okay. This is the freeform catch-up episode. Yes. Okay, so I wrote down a few things, and I just want to get your thoughts on them just quickly. And just give me a 10-second answer. Okay? I'm just going to give you a topic.
    45:44
    Dutch pinball hiring. Meh. That's my 10-second answer. Yeah. Okay. It's great to see Big Olabowski is going to the people that have already prepaid for him and people getting them.
    45:58
    But I would be shocked if they can get it off the ground. I'll leave it at that. Yeah. There's no chance. Okay. second topic deep root who yeah don't they seem dead they have disappeared what and texas is one of the most lenient covet states in the nation like i don't get like i'm not saying you should be working right now like i'm not for or against what you should be doing with your company but you kind of have the least amount of excuse out of everyone in the nation in my opinion it's It's totally radio silence. Especially where they were supposed to be ready for Texas. Like you were lined up for Texas. They shut down two weeks before Texas. Like if you had machines ready to go for Texas, you should have already been out the door. Do you know what it seems like? It feels like Robert Mueller has found the new toy.
    46:51
    Maybe. Like he found something else because it just seems like the oxygen has burned. burned like the fuel available for this oxygen fire is gone there just doesn't seem to be anything going on well and the most depressing part the last amount of news i heard coming out from was like barry alistair got covid yeah and it's it well and also just that uh dennis nordman uh was no longer with him and that was just like a oh by the way yeah he's gone so yeah which let's be honest that's not in my opinion it's not a shocker but no he seems yeah he seems to be a little more of a rolling stone but still which is fine there's nothing wrong with that okay all right okay next one hot wheels so american pinball hot wheels okay because i actually have a take on this but i want to hear what your take is my this is my disclaimer we did have josh coogler on on the show because they wanted to talk to hot wheels about us there's still nothing in this game that catches my I need to play it before I make a solid decision. I just don't feel like it's for me. But from every feedback I've heard, this is America's best game they've made so far, which is very promising. Okay, so I reached out to my friend Tony Murphy, who lives up in that area, in the Minnesota area, and the Wisconsin, Minnesota, Chicago area, right? and he got a Hot Wheels. So I'm like, I want to find out what about this is. And so the local guy that I haven't met here because of COVID, Tom Walsh, he is friends with Tony. And so he went up there and I asked him about it and I said, how is Hot Wheels? And he said, this is a quote. On another note, still loving Hot Wheels. I think American Pinball has a hit on their hands. Played last night for a couple hours. red line mania is a cool mini mode after you hit red line on the tack and he said it's definitely the new and shiny right now so that may affect my judgment we'll see how it holds up after several months especially after the trolls come out in late august or september but he was just like he's loving it and that that makes me happy that american pinball is delivering and they're giving you an a legitimate alternative option if you you know if whatever stern's offering is is not up your alley or uh jjp or chicago game company or uh you know even spooky this is like another legitimate option out there so i'm i'm happy for them i'm happy that it's the people who bought it was like yeah this is awesome so my only suggestion to to american and i don't know if this has changed because i played a houdini i got to put some serious time in on a houdini uh three weeks ago if you haven't done it yet put end of stroke flippers on your games houdini i think that would resolve the issues that people have with houdini i think hands down because the the the flippers feel so weak they don't have that snap that you're used to the snap that was on the williams the snap that's with the stern the snap you have to have that snap especially with these newer games and and i could be entirely wrong they may have done this with hot wheels they may have done this with october fest i've honestly never played either one uh but with houdini that is your problem yeah the shots are tight but i think if you would have had those flippers you would have had less pushback on the game okay okay all right okay um next topic and this is this is like fast facts because a lot really when we're interviewing people we we tend to uh wander we we don't tend to talk about the topic so this has been a fun recap episode can we go off about 20 minutes about 80s pinball machines yeah well hey that was fun though people want to know people want a journey pinball machine let's do it um don't stop believing uh okay pinball hall of fame awesome i'm so excited to see this thing if you haven't checked this out on Facebook or whatever social platform, uh, go check it out. Walls are going up. I am so excited for Tim Arnold and the hall of fame crew. Keep going. Okay. Um, TPF suites selling out in three hours. Uh, don't stop believing. Yeah. No, here's the thing. I was so busy. Like we, uh, when we restarted, uh, at the hospital, I have been super busy and I totally missed this. I would have booked a suite yeah so um if if someone needs to uh you know maybe i'll have to uh pry my way into to big spoon or little spoon someone uh but uh i'll need to be able to find a a way to get there uh for next year's because i just totally missed it and of course it's all booked out so well and hopefully hopefully i mean we're still months out but let's hope no absolutely and really I'm the Debbie Downer. I have a feeling that this whole thing will take four years. And don't kill me. I think it's going to take a lot longer than just a season. I don't know. With how the testing rates are going, man, I really think we hit herd immunity before we get a vaccine. And I bet that with watching these numbers, I bet we hit herd immunity in the next year or so. Yeah, I don't think so. That takes 70%, dude. yeah no okay my county alone has been tested uh 20 of the county's been tested already and yeah okay tested but just because you get tested and it's zero doesn't mean you're immune so oh sure i guess you're right okay so uh this is a uh this is a melancholy happy trails uh the silver ball saloon closed yeah that's it sucks to hear these arcades closing especially someone like Bruce and Kat Nightingale. Sorry to hear that, guys. That's just, it's absolutely terrible. Our hearts go out to you. Yeah, and the people who are on the ground really fighting for this, really the margin of, the profit margin on these places is surprisingly thin. Yeah. And so when they get hit by a drastic drop in volume and they're, you know, I don't know the entire situation there. I mean, a lot of times it's you're still having to pay overhead. You're paying rent. You're paying all that kind of stuff. And eventually you just have to say, I can't do it anymore. Yeah. It surprises me. It's disheartening to me that there's not a collaborative effort to say, hey, it's in everybody's best interest to take a six-month hiatus on this and then we'll be able to see what we can do. But it's, you know, sometimes it just kills you. Just there's not much else you can do. So, you know, Bruce, thinking about you, really sorry that we couldn't be there to dump quarters your way. But I'm sure your next project will be great. So we need to have them on or maybe we should go on there now that we're podcast buddies since we teamed up against. Oh, geez. We did a horrible.
    54:05
    Yeah, dude. Oh, man. I should not second guess myself. I owned a doctor, dude. And I was like, it's cool, dude. and then i was like no it's got to be super because you always remember when you hit super do it yell super dude and so i went super for some stupid reason and i knew it was cool but and yeah anyhow okay right legitimately ron knows way more about pinball he's forgotten more about pinball than i will ever know well that was the crazy part by the time we got to the end of it was like none of us had answered the questions right no no we all got smoked yeah yeah all every last one of us yeah but and really the i was so quickly in my head trying to catch up on uh how many people were on the back glass of uh sopranos and i'm like i don't know it's just a whole bunch so yeah just in case you guys don't know this was um uh this was uh help me out here i'm having a brain fart uh final round pinball they did the pinberg trivia challenge and we were a part of it yeah and who won i can't remember oh yeah yeah yeah congratulations yeah congratulations i i posted i was like yeah i didn't even make it past my round so uh so congratulations to you so well what's funny is like we get to the end of the round and he's like you know i i gotta take someone yeah it was basically yeah it was uh basically okay uh everybody kind of sucked so let's just flip a coin yeah yeah that's pretty much how it was uh but no seriously bruce ron you guys are awesome uh we're we're rooting for you for beefs and butthead pinball machine yeah geez and they really should do the voices on that yeah okay um yeah i'll skip that one uh okay stern vaults what do you think will come out first tron or lord of the rings um i'm going to go with star trick again wow okay yeah i don't know they said it was the final one so maybe maybe ghostbusters i don't know i i honestly don't see us getting a tron or a lord the ring same time soon really i see i see a tron i see a tron so this is my theory on tron they might vault it but they just signed up to do another tron movie and like jared leto's gonna be in it so i i think depending on the success of that they might pull a spider-man and do a spider-man vault where they change the artwork or something like that i could be entirely wrong um disney might not give a crap about the license there's so many variables i just don't know it's yeah it's it's interesting with uh with leto going on um yeah you know he's just a weird dude like he's he's he looks like he was hatched in like a lab somewhere because he's my age and he looks like he's about 22 he's a really nice guy um okay so i i knew jared before he was famous like uh wait are you serious yeah so he was in a band called 30 seconds to mars we still is in a band 30 seconds to wars yeah we we played with them before their so they've had their first album in my opinion wasn't that great our basis was obsessed with it. We got to meet him because we got to open for him. Okay. I had no idea about this. Their second album, that's the one that really took off that had The Kill, and it had a lot of those, I think, three or four hits off that album that really took off. But their live show is something else. When we used to either see them or play, Jared's just awesome.
    57:46
    He's just as genuine behind the scenes as he was in front of the scenes. No, I'm glad to hear that. There was actually a documentary that I saw. It was about them having a fight with their record company. And it was when they were recording This Is War, which I thought was a great album. So I listened to that a lot. So it's a I have nothing against the guy. I just thought it was he he really looks like he's been in suspended animation because he still looks like he's 22. Well, I feel bad for the dude because I feel like his breakout movie was going to be Suicide Squad. Oh, yeah, and they murdered that. Yeah, well, not only that, they cut a lot of his parts out of there. I mean, they really – but I guess he was in – what was the one with Matthew McConaughey? Oh, all right, all right, all right. Dallas Buyers Club. Was it that one? The one where he was a drug addict? Yeah, it was Dallas Buyers Club. Yeah, and so he did really good in that one too.
    58:47
    Yeah, it'll be interesting. I think that it would be – the reason why I say Tron is because it would be an easy one to make because it is – the rules are set. Everybody likes the rules. The layout, it's difficult but not horrible. And yeah, if you updated that a little bit, put it in the LCD screen, it would be great. well here's the real question though with covid and everything happening we're into august now turtles released in may they're not doing a vault this year i'm like do do we even see anything besides one more cornerstone uh yeah that's a good question and do we even see a cornerstone i mean it took it took me three months to get turtles which stern's not known for that i mean that's yeah they're still playing catch up which is great because hey that just means the demand's up right yeah yeah um yeah and and even some games are are uh it's hard to find a used game so i really need to get on listing my shrek so someone can actually buy it and take it home since it's in my garage i know you offered it to me and my cousin has a shrek now so it's like well if i really want to play one it's it's fine hey it's a solid game it's a it's uh it really is a bad it's a decent game i just feel like i've gone through it and it's uh time to move on so hey if If you're looking for a Shrek, hit me up.
    60:07
    Okay. What about the total recall pinball machine? Did you see that? Yes. This floats around every so often. Yeah, it does. It pops up. And, you know, it just – could you imagine routing this thing? Could you imagine trying to get this stupid thing through your front door? That's what I was just saying. Routing that thing, like moving it in and out, that is a nightmare. Well, and how do you get the thing together? You'd have to – You'd have to take the back box off. well not only that like you how would you bolt okay so how would you move it yeah yeah like well but the two bodies come together at the head but you'd have to secure those bodies together somehow right like i just yeah i don't know how it would break apart that would be the interesting thing that's probably what killed it to be entirely honest it was like people like this is great and all but like when we talked to josh sharp you know they take into account you the real the the money per real estate or whatever yeah and they probably looked at this game was like this isn't just two games this is like four because of the space and the angles and stuff yeah i really wish we're at that point i think someone could could make this game but not for like production i think just make it to like a one-off yeah and i i wouldn't be opposed to that yeah so i bet there's enough do the papaduke thing not not don't don't like promise someone not take a lot of money and then not delivered but like papa duke what he was gonna do like 15 magic girls or 20 of them whatever it was do that with total recall i guarantee there'd be people out there would buy it yeah probably i i doubt the licenses and they're probably not interested in the license at this point and it you you would charge so much per game just to get that license yeah yeah so i would like to see i would like to see it in a flippable condition because it's still my head has a hard time wrapping around this project yeah and i'm just kind of wondering about the flippers up top like does the right side flip control the right flipper and the left side control the left flipper i don't know yeah okay all right so we're up to uh speculation on stern okay so if you looked at this week in pinball this week jeff posted deleted right did it get deleted yeah i I looked at it and it said – because I was reviewing for the show. So this week in pinball, I pulled up and it was really funny because I was going through because I was trying to catch up. And it said, and Stern's next surprise. And so I scanned down and surprise, it's not on there. So I don't think it ever was. Oh, OK. OK, all right. So you can pay the five bucks or whatever it is to see the extra info. OK. And what that then gives you access to is every rumored title.
    62:54
    But the problem is all these rumored titles have been – everyone has been talking about them. Right. But I just thought that the fifth one was – either was like he deleted it or it was a tease. So it sounds like it was a tease.
    63:07
    Don't get me wrong. I love Jeff. Yeah. But yeah, all the titles that are available that you can read have already – we talked about them on the show. floating around yeah yeah it's like james bond godzilla i mean these are these are titles we've already heard so so the one that he said that is stern's next is a marvel title and then he proceeded to list like the last 23 marvel movies that have been made and then the next 15 do you think they do black widow okay here's the thing though if you read the article it said that it's not going to be based off a movie it's going to be based off the comic okay so still are they going to do a comic version of a movie like i didn't fully understand where we were going with this i didn't know if it's weird to say it's the comic but then put all the marvel movies up there as potential titles okay well okay this makes sense though because it's cheaper to put a dead pool comic out there than to pay for the licensing for randall reynolds because you're just dealing with marvel comics you're not dealing with marvel studios and i get that like i'm not i'm not opposed to that but i was confused on the next title from stern is a marvel title and then it says it's going to be a comic but then we list every stinking movie that's been made by marvel in the last okay but don't you think that makes sense though come on they're not going to do Moby is the living vampire or Casper the friendly ghost. True, but you're telling me they're not going to do Howard the Duck? Come on. Oh, jeez. I remember watching that show as a kid thinking, this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
    64:55
    Oh, my goodness. Okay, out of all the Marvel movies, let's go like this. Okay, the 23 Marvel movies that have been released, let's say they're not going to be repeats, So we're not going to get an Avengers. We're not going to get a Deadpool. We're not going to get a guardians of the galaxy. Um, black Panther. It's black Panther.
    65:14
    That's seriously. That's the thing that came to my mind was black. It's black Panther. Like, uh, thinking of all those movies. And by the way, if I am right, I get a medallion because seriously, I have no insider information.
    65:26
    but okay. So, so black Panther is due to come out sometime soon. The first one was a huge success. They already have a Spider-Man one. I don't think they'll do a Doctor Strange one. Thor, they're not going to really do that again because they already released all three, four movies. Ant-Man, no. Guardians of the Galaxy, already have it. Captain America, kind of tied in with the limited edition.
    65:55
    Okay, that's pretty much it, right? I could see Black Widow because her movie is supposed to be released in September. Yeah, but they usually don't come out with – the reason why Iron Man 2 came out is because they wanted to make sure it was a sure hit. They didn't want to have a Johnny Mnemonic again or The Shadow again or something where a game is linked to a stinker title. Yeah. Okay, so let's set that aside. Captain Marvel? Maybe. $2.2 billion was the first one. You know what? Maybe. Okay. There's two landmark heroes out there that have, I guess, surpassed expectations of what they would hit. Black Panther is one of them. Captain Marvel is another. She is a – in this age of women empowerment, she is a perfect example of that. So that would work really well. So my money is all in on Black Panther, though. I don't go against you on it at all. I really think Black Panther is a smart move I think it a different demographic than what the the pinball market used to i think it something that noticeable on location that someone like wait a minute black panther the pinball machine like i got to go play this yeah and you don have to pay for a likeness because it's a it's an outfit yep um here's the one that i thought they might do but maybe it's too soon do the marvel studios version of spider-man not the sony one but the the newest one like you far from home and homecoming it's still sony actually it's well correct but in the marvel universe let's put it that way okay yeah because the the marvels sorry let me put this The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Okay. All right.
    67:52
    Yeah, you're wrong, but that's fine. Yeah. You never know. I'm like, is it too soon? Because Spider-Man's already gotten – especially if we do a comic version. I mean we just did a comic version of Spider-Man. Okay, but we just got Pirates of the Caribbean with J.J.P. after we had Pirates of the Caribbean with Stern, which was roughly the same time. But let's be honest. Pirates of the Caribbean is not as relevant as Spider-Man. Like Tom Holland is a hot topic. They still have a third one coming out. Did you buy a shirt of Tom Holland at Hot Topic? Is that what you're saying? You know it. Yeah. Okay. Key chain? Lanyard? No.
    68:33
    Tattoo? Yeah, my left butt cheek. Wow. That's care. So when you're wearing that Borat swimsuit? You know it. um the seriously that's what floated to the top when exactly i was thinking what you were thinking was either black panther or captain marv it i okay i i would put all my chips in on black panther because again captain marvel you probably have to pay brie larson for her likeness yeah but black panther you do not true i i have a hard time with captain marvel the reason being is there has been a lot of animosity between Brie Larson and Marvel Studios. Even though she's supposed to be the main superhero going forward in the next phase of Marvel, I just... If things keep up the way they're going, I think they go with someone else. They've got enough people in their repertoire they're going to be like, well,
    69:31
    see ya. Yeah, and it's hard. I'm always a little disappointed. I understand there are relationships that change um and really i i'm disappointed with someone like uh um alec guinness who basically hated everything he did with star wars yeah and my thoughts are okay that's fine but that meant a lot of things to a lot of people yeah and uh it's a role and that's fine if you don't like it you can move on but it's uh you should at least respect that it meant something to them. Um, but you know, it's, it's fine. This is, this is a weird time with, uh, entertainment and with entertainers, uh, speaking their mind for, for good and bad. Uh, this is the classic, uh, this is that walking that fine line because you're still in the entertainment business and you're trying to sell to as broad of an audience as you can. And so So there is a level of activism that I would say is acceptable and encouraged. There's also a level of activism that can be polarizing. And I don't know where that line is. And everybody has to make that decision for themselves.
    70:48
    But I'm always a little nervous when they start either bashing roles or bashing studios that gave them their big break. you see it a lot with the new Star Wars movies too where this is how big of a role it's played in my life the guy who played Finn has been pretty dismissive of Star Wars and the guy who played Poe he's like I wouldn't do a Star Wars movie unless I needed a new house wow so yeah I'm like really guys like at least that's one thing that Harrison Ford like reiterate is like you always respect your project yep like it may it may or may not be great but you have to respect it yep so harrison ford would know a lot about those well i okay if you could have a career like harrison ford uh dude i'm not complaining he's done some great stuff he's done some done some stinkers absolutely yeah there's the uh yeah indiana jones and the kingdom of the crystal skull that was yeah i felt dumber for having watched that movie yeah yeah but yeah so uh so you heard Heard it here first. Black Panther is the next turn, and it's going to be – yeah. So who's designing?
    72:05
    Is it a Steve Ritchie design? Is Keith Elwin up? Is George Gomez going to hop in the seat? According to the article from This Week in Pinball, it would be Keith Elwin. Okay.
    72:19
    And Keith has not told us a word. No, no, no, no, no. Well, but we were discussing this the other day. How many designers does Stern have? Well, there's Steve Ritchie. They have John Borg. They have Keith Ellwin. They have Gomez. But Gomez just came out and said on Super Awesome Pinball Show that he – He doesn't do it primarily because it's just too much. It's really too much. So really it's between Steve Ritchie and Keith Ellwin.
    72:46
    So – Yeah, because Eddie just did Stranger Things. Yeah, that's true. They have Brian Eddy too. So it could be Brian Eddy. He could be coming up. Because I went through the list of pinball machines made in the last four years from Stern, and it really is. I mean obviously he, who shall not be named, got his scrapped – Deadpool scrapped, and so Gomez had to step in for that one. And then Gomez stepped in for Beatles, and then – Well, OK, but that was – no, I'm not taking anything away from George on this. He refined an existing game, but that also took a lot of effort to re-engineer it so it flows better. But what I'm saying is between Gomez, Richie, and Borg, until Keith Elwin came on and did Iron Maiden, it's been kind of those three, Gomez, Borg, and Richie. And now we've got Elwin and Eddie, and so that takes pressure off of Gomez. But it's crazy to think because we – I know when we had Zach on, he didn't say that they aim for a certain amount of cornerstone titles a year. But if you look back – Okay, but Gomez has said that. Four. No, Gomez has said that. He said – Oh, they do aim for so many? Yeah. Well, he said three. He said three cornerstone games a year and then put in vaults when you need to. And then you'll do contract games or special games or stuff like that. So absolutely. so so if we were go to the timeline because borg and dwight did monsters the next one out was black knight so it would not have to be steve richie but that would be right but he's kind of up right yeah and and then after that would be keith ellen because then jurassic park came is it crazy to think jurassic park's already been out for a year um a little bit yeah um still a great game I would be happy to see what's up If it is Black Panther I'm excited to see almost I like Marvel movies I would be excited to see whatever Keith Owen could bring to that Right You know what I would Hey I'm fine with a Richie game Since I'm actually looking at possibly moving my Spider-Man 2 So be interested to see Really? Yeah So I don't know I'm just I'm looking at mixing up my collection So You might have to talk to me about that Spider-Man it's a nice one right anyway uh you know what we'll talk about uh toppers uh next time and we're already uh passing the 116 minute mark or the 76 minute mark and uh i will emphasize that we had i had some interesting things happen to my toppers i ordered two toppers and yeah shenanigans ensued however uh zach took care of me and i will talk about those two toppers next time they are of games that i currently do not own nice oh no you got both i'm planning ahead nice i want to leave i want to leave everyone with this story i know that uh everyone can probably relate to this story at one point in time in this hobby unless if you're fresh into this hobby but i want to tell you my yard sale story oh geez so we have time for this yes i'll I'll try to be quick. Wow. So it was a couple weeks ago. It was after we had Butch on. My wife texts me. She had to work that day. I'm watching the kiddos. She texts me. This yard sale just posted on Facebook, and there's a pinball machine in their driveway at the yard sale.
    76:13
    And it's funny because I get all the kids loaded up. I'm in the car, and I'm already heading there. And my wife's like, did you get my text? And I'm like, honey, I'm driving there. Like I have Carter text that for me. Dad's on his way. you know and uh we get there and it's a 1949 maryland it's a wood rail glass is missing uh i'm looking at i take a couple pictures i send in the butch because i'm like is this even fixable dude has 200 bucks slapped on as the price tag and i'm just looking at this and the playfield i don't know how how they make the newer playfields but apparently the older playfields it was a piece of wood and then they did like a really thin either laminate or a really thin piece of wood over the top that had the actual play field and and water had somehow either dripped onto the play field or whatnot and that thin layer on top had peeled back like you just peeled a banana you know it just peeled off it was still there it could be glued down but then it had a crack all the way from the head of the game down to the top down to the buttons i mean And it just play felt literally split in half, probably about a quarter inch wide. I mean, it was not a small gap.
    77:30
    And I'm looking at this, and this guy's like, dude, $200, it's a still. They're rare. They give you everything, right? Oh, no one owns one in the whole nation anymore. I'm like, dude, I'm not going to lie to you. This is 1949. The reason that no one owns it is because no one wants it. Like, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. And he's like, I can go lower than $200. I'm like, you don't want to know how low I want to go. I don't know if I want this pinball machine. I told him, let me go talk to my friends really quick, send some pictures, and see if it's even worth it. And so after talking to you and Butch, and Butch was like, you're really going to have to love that game to bring it back to life. Yeah, and I basically said hard pass. Yeah, and the only thing that would happen, you plug in the cord, lights would come on, no one's home. I mean, it's not doing anything. and so so after sitting in the car for about 15 minutes talking to you guys i get out walk over the guy i'm about to tell him a hard pass and he very smugly says we sold it already i was like oh congratulations i hope i hope you got the 200 bucks and and i get back in the car and i text you guys and butch is like it's win-win-win you don't end up with the pinball machine he gets his 200 bucks and some poor sap gets a pinball machine he thought he got for cheap you know yeah and so that was that. I didn't think twice about it. I was kind of happy someone else took it because I was afraid. Do you ever get in that mode where it's like, I have to take this? If it doesn't come to me, it's going to go to a trash pile. You know what I'm saying? I guess I don't because I just don't have the time to resurrect games. I don't have the Jesus touch on games. I cannot bring them back to life.
    79:13
    That's all I could think was if I get rid of this, if I pass on it, someone's going to take it and get ticked off and just trash it. Right. And so I was glad someone else took it and I didn't have the option. And so I get home weekends over and I get a call from my local dentist and he's like, Josh, you work on pinball machines, right?
    79:39
    Yeah. I bought one this weekend. Okay. Where did you buy it from? A yard sale up in air village. I'm like, was it for $200? Yeah, you know the one. I said, yeah. And he's like, how much do I have to pay you to bring this thing back to life? And I'm like, I'm not going to lie to you. Throw it away and get a different one. I will help you get you any other pinball machine. You don't want this one. So after I texted you guys on Monday that, guess what? Someone wants me to fix it. I got a couple laughs in the text. Yeah, it's just not worth it. There's some that you're like, you know, it's a great game, and it's a great museum piece if you want to just put it in the corner and say it's cool looking, but it's beyond non-functional at this point. Yeah, and so he's trying to convince me to still work on it. I'm trying to convince him just buy an old working EM. If you don't want to drop the money on this, Marilyn, get something. Right, and I think that's what he doesn't realize. He doesn't realize that it will cost $1,000 to get it back, and it's sadly not worth it unless it's a labor of love. Call Nick Schell. Send it to the Roanoke Pinball Museum. Yeah. Have him do it because he would love it. A split play field. I can't get one of those. I can't get a 1949 Maryland just from Marco or call up CPR. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. it's not a game that's well sought after. So there's no demand for the parts on that, on that machine. So, and that's what he's having a hard time understanding. It's like, I, even if I wanted to resurrect it, it's going to be hard. It's not, it's not going to be like, Oh, I'll just buy the parts and we'll call it good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, wait, now, did you even look this up? What? It was made in 1949, right? Yes.
    81:41
    Like I, I don't even know if there's – yeah. I'm looking at it just reminding myself from the play field.
    81:51
    It's so goofy. The flippers are down in the dead center. And they're reversed. Yeah. And so I'm just looking at this machine like this wouldn't even be fun to play. It might be. This is a pinball museum game. If he wants to donate it to the Pinball Hall of Fame or something like that, they may take it. I don't even know if they'd take it. Well, you just saw the underside of this play field. I mean the leaf switches were all rusted. I mean it just – there was water damage to this game, and it's just – it keeps passing from person to person to person because – Well, and I think that's what happens. People buy it, and then they realize this is just not worth it, and then they sell it on. So I'm surprised they got $200 from it. they found a sucker, but that's my story that I wanted to share with you. Yeah. Well, okay. Well, so what's the take home message? A take home message. If you are not for sure on the, uh, cause I've been in this hobby for six years. If you're not for sure about a pinball machine, find someone that is, that knows more about it. That was willing to give you advice. Unless you have a crazy amount of time. Do not buy a project.
    83:04
    That's my advice. Like if you want to play pinball, great if you want to learn how to uh rebuild stuff fine but that is different nine times out of ten if you take a gamble in pinball lose you're probably gonna lose i my world cup soccer i've had since i've pretty much gotten into the hobby i bought from an arcade it was missing buttons from the play field i mean it was missing the sound circuit board i knew what i was getting into and I got it for 600 bucks.
    83:35
    And I figured the parts I had to put into it would just, you know, was still cheaper than buying one fully functioning. And I was right in the end, but it's because I did my research and I knew who I was looking for. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's, you just, I don't know. And obviously the people are listening to this podcast. You're obviously enthusiasts. Maybe you stumbled upon this because you want to learn more. That's awesome. But I'm pretty for sure 99% of our people listening to our podcast knows what they're getting into. Yeah.
    84:09
    Yeah, so it's just, I don't know. You know, I just don't have that kind of time. So if people want to do it, you know, God bless. I hope you resurrect every single, basically the equivalent of a car on cinder blocks in the garage somewhere. I just don't have time to do that.
    84:28
    I agree. yeah all right let's do a couple wrap-up notes before we wrap this all the way up in a tight nice bow uh thank you thank you thank you for all the amazing positive response with the butch pill interview i i did not realize when scott got him on like i i had heard of butch pill uh but i didn't know the man there is amazing amount of stories from this community that have a love for Butch Pill and it just dumbfounded me just how much positive response we got. It's the most positive response we've gotten to an episode so far, which is saying something because we've had Keith Allen on, we've had Zach Sharp, we've had Josh Sharp. I mean, all these people have been on our show and people love Butch. I guess that's the final line. One other one that we got a lot of positive review from was the Jeff Rivera episode. They did a new episode, Pinball Podcast, If you haven't checked it out, him and Jessica did a catch up of the last year.
    85:33
    They gave us a shout out. Thanks, Jeff. Very awesome to hear you enjoy being on the show and good luck to Jessica in Florida.
    85:43
    Yeah, absolutely. And as always, if you listen to us on podcast, please give us a review. It does help us on the aggregate searching. And if you have a topic you want to talk about, send it our way. or if you want us to try to reach out and get a certain guest on. I'd love to hear your input. We certainly appreciate that people spend their precious time listening to us, and we're two enthusiasts who just want to spread the love on pinball, love all the things that all the manufacturers are doing, and we really do try to be more on the positive side. So keep it up and reach out to us if you have any questions. We'd love to hear from you. Yep. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Also, our email is LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. So if you want to send us an email, go for it. Honestly, the best way to get a hold of us is Facebook. Scott and I both have access to that, so we both reply pretty frequently to that. I do apologize to the people that leave messages to us on Pinside, and then two weeks later when I'm uploading the next episode, oh, sorry, I noticed you just left this comment, so I'll type in something. But if you want to get a hold of us, that's the way to do it, Facebook.
    86:55
    Other than that, dude, I want to tease it. Just a second. Okay. Tease, tease. We're having a return guest come back for an interview, hopefully sooner rather than later. I'm excited to have this person on, and you will be too. That's what I'm going to leave it at. Dun, dun, dun.
    87:14
    But, dude, Scott, always, always a pleasure to chit-chat with you, whether we have a guest or not, man. Hey, it's always fun. and catch up, go and play some good pinball. Yes. Oh, really quick, really quick. Sorry. Before we wrap this up, we talked about giving away a swag bag. Oh, yeah. We did not talk about this, but I had this idea. Okay. Shoot me down if it's a bad idea. Okay. If you want to be entered for the swag bag, either hit us up on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Heck, I don't give a crap if it's Pinsight. I want you to take a picture of yourself at your favorite local establishment playing pinball. We want to support those people. I know it's a scary time. I know, but just put on your mask. Make sure that you've got your six-foot bubble on and just take a picture with you and some pinball and support those local people because we're losing too many good companies. And that is my recommendation for the swag pick. If you take a picture and post it to any of our social media, you will automatically get entered in for a swag bag.
    88:22
    Sound good? All right. Sounds good. And if you're afraid to, then take it, I guess, at home and go from there. There you go.
    88:32
    All right, man. Okay. All right. We'll see you in about two weeks. Talk to you later. Shut up and sit down.
    89:15
    Bye.