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The Pinball Show Ep 149: Challenged

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 59m·analyzed·Mar 12, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern production roadmap through Q2 2025, Foo Fighters accessory launch strategy shift, JAWS (Premium/LE) exploit controversy, and American Pinball's Barry O's Barbecue Challenge release.

Summary

The The The Pinball Show discusses Stern Pinball production updates (Star Wars, Jaws, Godzilla, Jurassic Park, Foo Fighters, Venom, Elvira), an accessory launch strategy shift for Foo Fighters on March 12th, a March Madness Insider Connected controversy involving Eric Stone discovering a scoring exploit on Jaws that Stern patched and reset, and American Pinball new release Barry O's Barbecue Challenge in Classic ($69.95) and Limited Edition (100 units) models with Aura Lighting features.

Key Claims

  • Star Wars (Premium) is now shipping and available for order at pinball.com; Star Wars (Pro) will launch this week or next

    high confidence · Zach Minney, Stern production updates section - official retailer information

  • No more Godzilla (Pro) planned for production this year after the current run

    high confidence · Zach Minney, official Stern production update

  • Jurassic Park (Premium), no more planned this year after March/April run

    high confidence · Zach Minney, official Stern production roadmap

  • Star Wars (Pro) and Premium will not run again until late 2025

    high confidence · Zach Minney citing direct Stern Pinball update

  • No plans to produce The Avengers (Pro) or Premium this year

    high confidence · Zach Minney, official Stern production update

  • Foo Fighters accessories launching March 12th with advance notice to dealers

    high confidence · Zach Minney, new Stern announcement strategy

  • James Bond 60th Anniversary received 250+ new call-outs in version 1.08 update

    medium confidence · Zach Minney speculation that call-outs were repurposed from Cornerstone game

  • Eric Stone found a scoring exploit/bug in Jaws that allowed trillion-point scores, disrupting March Madness promotion

    high confidence · Zach Minney describing community controversy, Stern officially patched and reset the score

  • Barry O's Barbecue Challenge Classic edition priced at $69.95 plus shipping; LE limited to 100 units

    high confidence · Zach Minney, American Pinball official pricing and production numbers

Notable Quotes

  • “Fuck you, George Hudson.”

    Zach Minney @ ~5:30 — Humorous opening rant about daylight savings time inventor; sets comedic tone for episode

  • “It's not a bug, it's a feature. This is how good I was playing. Now you're going to take away from me because I'm playing better than everybody?”

    Eric Stone (paraphrased by Zach) @ ~35:00 — Core argument in Jaws March Madness exploit controversy - player defends high score as skill, not bug

  • “Sam Stern, like working at Stern and having a meeting, first off, I'm rubbing my face right now. I'm like, I just want to apologize to the group for having this fucking whole March Madness idea.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~42:00 — Empathetic critique of Stern's March Madness promotion decision and the controversy it created

  • “That is a true LE. You know you got an LE when even American Pinball is like, maybe we'll let you do it.”

    Zach Minney @ ~55:00 — Commentary on rarity of 100-unit LE production; acknowledges American Pinball's typically higher production volumes

  • “They're going to try and use it as an upsell on the classics is what you're thinking.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~62:00 — Analysis of Aura Lighting pre-installation as potential future accessory sales strategy

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonEric StonepersonTexas Pinball FestivaleventStar Wars (Pro)gameJaws Pinballgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern Pinball accessories department shifting toward structured launch announcements and dealer allocation transparency, modeling game sales department practices

    high · Zach emphasized this represents marked improvement in communication and operational efficiency; dealers previously complained about lack of advance notice and allocation information

  • ?

    community_signal: March Madness Insider Connected promotion disrupted by Eric Stone discovering scoring exploit in Jaws; Stern patched bug and reset score, sparking heated debate over whether exploit was 'feature' vs 'bug'

    high · Zach and Dennis discussed widespread community backlash against Stern's decision; disagreement on whether exploit was legitimate skill or unintended programming error

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Eric Stone's reputation for discovering game exploits (cited previous Batman 66 trillion-point score) re-established in Jaws March Madness controversy; community divided on legitimacy of outlier scores

    high · Zach characterized Stone as savant/Carl D'Angelo-type figure; community debate centered on whether high-level play skill justifies score vs. whether exploit undermines fair competition

  • $

    market_signal: Stern implementing advance notification strategy for accessory launches (Foo Fighters March 12) to improve dealer communication and reduce back-of-line issues

    high · Zach contrasted new announcement approach with historical last-minute accessory launches; noted improved coordination with Stern game sales department standards

  • ?

    announcement: American Pinball launches Barrio's Barbecue Challenge with differentiated Classic ($69.95) and Limited Edition (100 units) tiers featuring Aura Lighting, red trim, magic glass, shaker knocker

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.359

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, Dennis and I discuss who thought daylight savings time was a good idea, Stern Pinball production updates, the March Madness Insider Connected Controversy. We preheat the grill for American Pinball's newest game release, Vario's BBQ Challenge, as well as updates around the industry and pinball market trends. The Pinball Show Club members this week get exclusive content about the upcoming Texas Pinball Festival, what to expect, and more. I guess I also need to preemptively apologize to all of those that we will upset, anger, or offend during episode 149 of the Pinball Show. Enjoy. Rob the Jewish going to tell him make me a grip. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
1:08
It's time for the pinball show. It's pinball with personality. We about to start an epidemic of discipline.
1:19
Ladies and gentlemen, the time is now. Open your nostrils. Inhale as much air as you can. you may pick up a hint of hickory. Here on the Pinball Show, episode 149, I'm Zach Minney alongside Dennis Creasel. How are you today, Dennis? I'm doing well. I may today go by Dennis Mesquite. Oh, we're going Den Den Mesquite today. You going with the dry rub today or are you going to lube up? I always prefer those wet sauces, Zach. You know that.
1:50
Oh, my gosh. Is it happy hour yet? It's not happy hour yet. It's happy hour somewhere. It's not Texas Pinball Festival time yet. No. We're getting to that. What's that, next week? This week. This week? Yeah, technically, yeah. This week. Wow. Sunday, we'll talk about that. That's right. You're going to that, right? I am. I'm all set. I got my rooms reserved. I got my reservation. I got to top off the gas tank before I drive down there, and that's about it. I have to see if I even have a hotel room. And I look back, I don't. Well, you've been so on again, off again about it, but we might explore that. That'd be something maybe behind the wall. I've got beef with, I don't know who developed this, who invented this. Was it God? Who came up with daylight savings time? Was that Ben Franklin? He seems to. No. No, actually, that was a, you know, I feel bad because that was a trivia question today through Bing. Oh, really? Yes. But I got the answer wrong. George Hudson. I was checking. I was just now typing it up and checking. George Hudson. Fuck you, George Hudson. First to propose modern daylight savings time back in 1895. I take back my FU. He's a New Zealander. So it's not even our fault as Americans. It was a hobbit.
Godzilla Pinballgame
Jurassic Park Premiumgame
Foo Fighters (Pro)game
James Bond 007 (60th Anniversary LE)game
Barry O's Barbecue Challengegame
Insider Connectedproduct
Venom Pinballgame
Elvira Premium Pinballgame
Avengers Pinballgame
Ron Hallett Jr.person
Iron Maiden Aces High topperproduct
March Madness Insider Connected Promotionevent
Victory Pinballgame
Sinbadgame
Unscrewumsproduct

high · Zach provided detailed pricing and feature breakdown; LE limited to 100 units represents true scarcity for American Pinball

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jaws Limited Edition units still shipping (delayed by parts shortage); Star Wars Pro/Premium not planned to return until late 2025 despite early 2024 release

    high · Zach confirmed ongoing Jaws LE shipments and emphasized 18+ month gap before Star Wars production resumes

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern discontinuing Godzilla Pro and Jurassic Park Premium production after current runs; no Avengers Pro/Premium planned for 2025

    high · Zach provided explicit discontinuation confirmations; suggests Avengers underperformed relative to other premium titles

  • ?

    product_strategy: James Bond 60th Anniversary received significant code update (v1.08) adding 250+ call-outs, likely repurposed from Cornerstone game to improve thin vocal content from initial release

    medium · Zach speculated call-outs sourced from Cornerstone given licensing constraints and lack of IP investment for update

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern Q2 2025 production schedule detailed: Foo Fighters Pro, Venom Pro/Premium, Jaws Pro/Premium, Jurassic Park Premium, Godzilla Pro final run, Elvira Premium, with no Star Wars/Avengers/Godzilla additional production planned

    high · Zach Minney provided comprehensive production calendar citing direct Stern updates

  • ?

    technology_signal: Aura Lighting System introduced on Barrio's Barbecue Challenge LE as pre-installed feature, suggesting future retail availability as accessory for Classic edition buyers

    medium · Dennis and Zach inferred Aura Lighting will be offered as upsell based on 'pre-installed' terminology; contrasted with Galaxy Tank Force where it shipped on all models

    • 3:14
    It's a hobbit. It probably made sense back then. Why are we doing this today? This is stupid. You jump ahead and then you jump backwards. So why are we doing this? Well, there's a mix of reasons why we don't get rid of it that I've heard. What, computers? This is Y2K? What are we doing? No, no. It's nothing so technical. So, I mean, because when the discussion comes up, then the debate that you end up having is, okay, so do you make daylight savings time permanent or do you make standard times permanent? Who cares? Well, different people have different feelings. It's like someone I work with likes to go. She likes to go and, like, I don't know, what's the thing where you stand on, like, those giant surfboards and paddle boarding? Yeah. She likes to go paddle boarding after work. So she wants daylight savings time to be permanent because she gets an extra hour of light in the evening, and she can't do it before work. So that's why she would do it. And I've heard that the reason why we still go back to standard time, though, is in the winter, a lot of parents are deeply uncomfortable with their kids having to stand outside waiting for the bus when it's dark out because they're afraid that cars might hit them. So that's a desire not to stay on daylight savings time because there's a safety risk. Yeah, but the blanket that is thrown on everyone is preposterous. Just modify your individual activities more so than changing time. Like, come on. If you don't want to be out by the school bus school system, then bump your time. Don't try to change time. I personally agree that we shouldn't be doing the shift and we just need to pull the trigger. And I would get rid of daylight savings time and I would just do it on standard. That solves the child safety risk and people will have more light in the evening when it's summertime anyway. So that would be my approach. But, yeah, I do agree that the shift, because what they have found through numerous studies is that there's a health and safety risk to the time change. The time change itself results in people getting killed because they lose, like, well, like tomorrow. People are going to have lost an hour of sleep. There will be more car wrecks. Really? Because a lot of people aren't. I mean, we've changed time. We're recording here on Sunday, which is when the time change happens. But no one has, you know, by and large, a lot of people don't have to do anything on Sunday, so they don't really feel the repercussions until Monday. Look, all I know is that little planet was so close to gargantua that when Matthew McConaughey went down there, every hour was seven years back on earth. But that's time change. A British medical journal study, I just, I pulled it. I couldn't remember what it was. I was thinking car wrecks. I don't know if they've got the stats on it, but I suspect it. But here's one where there's an actual study. British medical journal study found that the Monday after daylight savings time where you spring forward, so today when this episode comes out, risk of a heart attack goes up 24%. What? Yep. But heart attack risk fell 21% the Monday when people spring back with the extra hour. I have to see these statistics and methodology. Yeah, well, I don't know the full methodology of the study. I'm just telling you what the summary of it is. Okay. A study, and you'll appreciate this one given your background, a study by the Journal of Applied Psychology found that the Monday after switching to daylight savings time saw an increase in workplace injuries and a higher percentage of severe injuries on that day. Hmm. And it says, another study also found there is an increase in traffic accidents the Monday after the time change due to increased tiredness. So cognitive impact. It's crazy. I did watch Interstellar again. Dennis, I'm telling you. Oh, wait, that's more in session. It is a top three film for me of all time. It's so, so good. I cry so many times throughout. It's a masterpiece. I'm glad that you like it. Did you not do anything pinball related? No, I didn't. last couple of weeks? I've opened up a couple of games.
    7:09
    I actually finally I think I'm done working on Victory. Yesterday, yeah, finally changed out the drop targets. It was a little frustrating because... Yeah, no one got it. Changed out the drop targets. They're kind of in the upper playfield piece, so it was a little hard to reach some of the screws that held the mechanism. I would bet, yeah. So anyway, I got those, got those swapped over, got the new... I was missing trim for the Translite. So got the trim pieces cut and because pinball resource. Oh, okay. Pinball resource. But they didn't have the right size, so they sent me overlong pieces, so I had to solve it. All right. Steve, you always like, you're not the right size. Yeah. And then I think the plexiglass that the Translite is with is not the original size because it didn't want to fit into the back box. We ended up, my dad came over because he had something else, which I was going to talk about here. they wanted to test out on my Sinbad, and so we sort of sanded some more space in the back box channel to give it enough room to actually go in so I could lock it. But I was going to mention, this is such a neat thing, because I don't know if you've ever run into this. You don't work with as many older games anymore. No, I've never done that, too. So on my Sinbad, there's one of those little metal posts, you know, like the steel posts that you just stick the little rubber ring on. Sure. the thin ones. Yeah, I forget what they're called. But yeah, little stand-off posts. The thin ones. Yeah, the thin ones that you could take the rubber off if you wanted to brick more sort of ones. Well, yeah. I call that a George Gomez post. Okay, yeah. Like what you do for the outlinks. Well, somebody has one over by the left orbit. Normally, I ordered one because I saw mine was missing. And then when I got it, I didn't realize it was broken. The threaded part was in the hole, and it had snapped. Oh. It's even, I think it's even snapped in the IPDB photos. Was there like a T-nut in there? No, it threads right into the wood. So you can't. Right into the wood? Yeah, it threads into the wood, this type of post. That's like really spooky pinball stuff. Yeah, this is, yeah, this is, I mean, because this one wasn't adjustable. It's supposed to be there. And it's over by a bigger plastic. So it wasn't super compromising gameplay, but that's actually supposed to create, as a narrow, as I could tell, more chaos when it comes out of that orbit, because it's easy to plunge into that. Sure. And feed out of that left orbit. So anyway, I have this post, and I can't get the piece out. And, you know, like the guidance with people when you have a broken, threaded piece of screw in wood is, like, either try and hammer it out. You know, and then you've got to patch that. Or you cut around it, cut a hole out, and then, like, fill it. You, like, would glue a dowel rod in. Yeah. Well, could you not, could you not, it's like tech talk here, like fucking slam tilt. Could you not take a screw, like they sell the screw, like a drill bit that drills into the screw and then pulls it out? And that's what he brought over to try out. Okay. And it worked great. Awesome. Yeah, it's a product I'd never heard of. I'm not Joel. I don't do big product plugs. Yeah, the product is called Unscrewums. And we're selling screws? Yeah. Yeah, so Unscrew, it's like Unscrew hyphen ums. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and it's like as you described. I guess he had ordered them months ago, and he finally got them. It's because he's like he wanted to bring them over. And I took some photos of the process, but it was so fast that, I mean, it was quick. It was basically you find, though, it just goes in the drill. You find the right size that can kind of latch over the edge, and then you just reverse the drill. It backed right out. And then I've still got threaded wood in there, so I was able just to screw the new piece in. Is that really tight, though? Yeah, wind tight. Oh, okay. I was thinking that you did. Yeah, it's not, you know, once it was all the way in, it would spin freely at the end there where it was probably a little bit of wood damage. But I didn't need to do the whole, like, normally when I have a blown out hole, I'll fill the thing with that. What would you do with that?
    11:13
    I fill it with toothpicks, you know, toothpicks and wood glue. Oh, I thought so. It's my normal little trick. Yeah, the whole toothpick. Well, you could have drilled all the way through and then either put a sheet nut to screw that in or you could have got a longer post. Well, I needed a longer piece. I needed a longer piece with a T-nut because this one was the proper length, so it wasn't going to punch through all of that plywood. It's too short. These people are sleeping. No, they look it. They are sleeping at this point. Should we wake them up with Craig Bobby? Well, no. He's sleeping as well. He slept through. Oh, well, that's why they got this little explanation. Okay. Well, but it was pinball related. The people who complain about us not talking about pinball, I just totally pinballed out. I really want to get some time on a victory. I've heard great things, and it looks cool. I don't know what it plays. I don't know. Yeah, I need to play it some more, but I was just happy to finally get it all working again. I had it all working, and then I played one game, and a drop target shattered on me. I just got to change them all out. A little brittle. Yeah, yeah.
    12:19
    I'm not surprised. I've had to do that with basically every Gottlieb I've ever owned that's from their era. We need to drink milk, those drop targets. We're going to talk about some very interesting locations of drop targets in new release games here soon. But first, we need to talk about Stern Pinball. What, production? Yeah, production updates from Stern Pinball. This last week, Dennis and listener, they were shipping Joel's Premium and Ellie's still. And then they did start Star Wars Premium. So people were able to get their Star Wars Premiums. You can buy yours now. It's open at pinball.com. So Star Wars premiums are out This week they're going to continue I think they have a whole line They're just continuing to make Jaws, LEs and premiums Remember those LEs because of that part shortage They're still not all out yet Really? I thought they had come I thought so too No there's still people without them So they're going to continue with that I think we also are going to see This week or next Star Wars Pro Jump on the line Then they're going to shift over to Godzilla Pro As a reminder listener No more Godzilla Pros are planned for production this year after this run. So Godzilla Pros. Then they're going to shift over to Jurassic Park Premium still in March here, and that's going to transition into the month of April. And another reminder, Jurassic Park Premium, no more planned this year. So that's in March. April is going to be Jaws Pro, and then April, May, Jaws Premium. It feels like something else there, May. I don't know. Late April is Elvira Premium.
    13:53
    Q2, we still have Foo Fighters Pro, Venom Pro and Premium, I believe, Jaws, Premiums in June. There is another update that I had, though, from Stern Pinball. They're indicating that while it took, what, a year and a half, almost two years for Star Wars to be remade again this month, it's going to be very similar. They will not run Star Wars Pro or Premium. They don't plan on it anyway until late 2025. Wow, that's quite a wait. Quite some time. I mean, it has been out for ever and a day. It's sold so many games. And there are no plans to produce Avengers Pro or Premium this year either.
    14:34
    Does that mean they're done? I mean, that does seem to be in the Elwynnverse, if that's what we call it. That seems to be the least popular one. So we'll see. Speaking of production, Stern Pinball accessories production update, some big ones here. We're finally getting the Iron Maiden Aces High topper. Now shipping. Wow. I was listening to Slam Tilt. Our friend over there, Ron Hallett Jr., was waiting for his Iron Maiden Aces High topper. He was pleading to Stern, where in the F is my topper? Well, Ron, it's headed your way. In a little bit of a change on how they do things, Stern Pinball announces this last week, listener, that Foo Fighters accessories are going to be launched March 12th. Set your calendar. March 12th, they're going to launch Foo Fighter accessories.
    15:27
    Generally, they just bring them on us and we're like, oh, shit, put them on our website. But they're planning it now. I like that.
    15:37
    It was odd to some consumers, though. They're like, what? we're launching these? This is like a thing now? Do you think this is a move that they're doing for information's sake, or do you think this is a move they're doing because this is something they can announce and bring to the upcoming Texas Pinball Festival this week? I do lean more towards the idea that it's strategic in this case. I mean, I guess we'll better know if they start doing these sort of announcements when Nothing is happening. I don't know if there's ever a good time. I mean, it always feels like something's going on. But I kind of feel, you know, last year they were going in with Foo.
    16:20
    I mean, they're obviously going to see a big Jaws presence, but Jaws has been out a while. A lot of people have been able to play it on location already. And so given all of that, maybe it's to kind of keep some attention on themselves or steal some thunder from some other manufacturer. I don't know, because I honestly don't think the accessories mean that much to people. And it's still way too late. A lot of people sold their Foo Fighters. Yeah, I mean, it's a year later. That's true. And while I don't understand keeping a game less than a year, I think I've only ever had one game I didn't keep a full year, and it was like within two weeks of it. And it was a very old game, incidentally, from the 80s. I don't get it. I know a lot of people are not like me. I like it both from a consumer perspective and a distribution perspective. I'm speaking for myself because I'm in that position, but I like it because it prepares people. Otherwise, they might be at work or something. They're like, oh, crap, I got off work, and it looks like they launched this morning, and now I'm in the back of the list, that kind of stuff. So it's nice from that perspective. For me, as a dealer, I would like to know ahead of time, so this does help. No doubt this does help. I don't know if it needs to be announced for consumers as like a coming soon, March 12th. Do what you want. It's not a big deal either way, and it builds a little interest up for an event-based thing, so I'm cool with it, but I would have been fine with just giving dealers this heads-up. Hey, on March 12th, we're going to be launching this. Be on the lookout. That would be better than, holy crap, people are texting me about accessories, and just now I'm looking into it. We don't have any official pictures. I have no pricing. How many am I going to get? I have no clue. So they've already told dealers kind of in this first run of Foo Fighters accessories, here's what you're looking to receive if you want to order this mini. This is your allotment. The reason it's important, listener, this is behind the curtain kind of thing, if you care. It's important because the game sales has been very organized from Stern Pinball, industry leader, industry standard, gold standard in the entire pinball industry when it comes to manufacturing sales and everything. Game sales have been so organized that it makes business so much easier, so much more efficient, and it results in much better information and sales, objectively, period, dot. Accessories has kind of lagged behind. Two different departments there. Essentially still under the same umbrella, but still two different departments. and many of us dealers have been hammering, staring like, do what you're doing with games. Do that with accessories because that type of communication is so much better. So it's interesting because this is a marked quality improvement.
    19:16
    Is there like a head of accessories? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, be on the lookout March 12th for the Foo Fighters accessory. Another little nugget I'll give you guys. maybe the Foo Fighters topper is different than what everybody was thinking. How about that?
    19:35
    Interesting. So it's going to be Journey? Yeah, Dave Grohl sings from Journey. Insert Journey song because I don't want to sing a foreigner song or something like that.
    19:48
    There's a code update from Stern Pinball. It's for James Bond's 60th anniversary. Oh, no one really cares. Version 1.08. I find this fascinating that the update is pretty big because it includes over 250 call-outs that have been added. Remember, James Bond's 60th anniversary virtually didn't have any call-outs. Well, it's a very old-school style game. Yeah, I think we would have expected to have a lot of call-outs. I think we would have expected to have James Bond from the different Bond characters or the actors that played Bond. But I think that was all you got. Now they've added 250 call-outs. Now, I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that these call-outs are from the Cornerstone game. Oh, okay. You think they just repurposed them, kind of like the topper? I could be wrong, because I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking to myself,
    20:38
    there isn't a market to sell these products, so you're not going to dip back into the well of getting IP, allowing different films from the different Bond eras. You're just going to use what you have for the cornerstone that makes sense for this game because it adds some color to the game.
    20:59
    Interesting. Oh, my gosh. March Madness, Insider Connected. Have you seen this post? Okay. I did. Actually, I saw it when it was already going on because people were – Stern had a post. That's what I saw. Stern had a post, and that post on Facebook had a lot of comments about some sort of scoring exploit. Yeah, so this was this big promotional thing, which is very cool for Insider Connected, where states would compete against one another, like the March Madness bracket kind of thing. Without the bracket, just go with me here, people. It already doesn't sound like March Madness. No, no, no. Go. Okay. They were because they have access to scores and different things via Insider Connected. They can team you up like you'd be in the Kansas team, and your play would go toward the average score would go towards that.
    21:54
    And then, like, international had their own team and so on and so forth. Pretty cool promotion. But then the Eric Stone meteorologist down in Florida, he is a savant when it comes to – he's like Carl D'Angelo. They find these ways to blow up these games. Like I think Eric Stone did a trillion on Batman 66 before. Just crazy stuff. They find these exploits. And Eric Stone found an exploit, what many would call a bug, in the early code of this Jaws game. And he was in the trillions of points on Jaws. So it messed up everything. So Florida was not only winning, but was going to heavily win this whole promotional thing because of his one game. Yeah.
    22:48
    So Stern Pinball came out and said, and very professionally, hey, guys, for this promotion, we found a bug. One of our, you know, wonderful players and consumers found a bug. And because of that, we've patched the game, and we had to call it. They used the basketball terms. We had to call a foul or call a timeout. We had to replay, do a replay. They used whatever terms make sense. And they said, we're going to have to take away. These sneaky little hobbitses have found a little exploit, have found a bug. So we're going to take away that score. We patched it. All right. Blow the whistle. Let's go again. Right? Okay. Well, that did not sit well with a lot of people. Why? Well, we know how Eric Stone is already. So, of course, he was not okay with it. He was like, you sons of bitches. He was ranting. How dare you? Here I go again. People bringing me down because I'm playing a game. So he was saying, and his argument, as well as a lot of people's online, was this was not a bug. you shouldn't have used Joel. It's a feature. It's not a bug, it's a feature. This is how good I was playing. Now you're going to take away from me because I'm playing better than everybody? Because it doesn't line up with your promotion? This is bullshit. You're trying to silence me because of my outlier ability to play.
    24:22
    Whereas other people are like, no, dude, it's a fucking bug. It's an exploit that's not going to be in 1.0. You found it. Thank you. They patched it. Let's even the playing field for how this game is supposed to be.
    24:37
    Not a big fucking deal. But I've seen maybe a majority of people saying, no, this is a bunch of crap. He deserves that score. He deserves to win all the bottom. People are losing their minds.
    24:54
    What are your thoughts? I actually, I sympathize with Eric's perspective on it. They, you know, you had the version. I ran into something, I almost, I should say, almost ran into something similar. You know, I'm like, I'm going, Stern is like, no, that's, it's not right. You're not doing it right. And I'm like, look, Insider Connected works when the glass is on or off. I don't understand why you're judging me and the way I'm putting up points by flicking these spinners with my fingers. I see what you're doing there You see what I'm saying? And that's where I'm at The whole thing is already exploitable I guess is my point It's interesting that people get worked up But you know what? People in pinball, especially high level competitive pinball Get worked up Is there like a prize or something for this? I don't think so That's why I'm like Guys, I think everybody's looking too far into it this is why we can't have nice things.
    25:55
    Maybe this is the Stern show in me, but I'm like, if I'm Stern, like working at Stern and having a meeting, first off, I don't know if you guys can see this, but I'm rubbing my face right now. I'm like, I just want to apologize to the group for having this fucking whole March Madness idea. That was my fault. I pitched it. It was a good idea. Now this is what we're dealing with, and we're actually using time here at work to cover this and how to fix it. I'm sorry. That's how I feel. It's like, damn, guys, don't look too far into it. It's just a fun little promotion. That's all. And they try to balance it out and make it fair and make it make sense. If it was a bug, it was a bug. Well, I mean, so, okay. But in, more seriously, in Eric's defense, what happens if someone else finds another quote-unquote bug? Are we resetting it again? Sure. If it was crazy. And are we just resetting that one person? So as long as the score's not too crazy, it's okay. It's only if it gets super crazy. I mean, where's the line? The line is this isn't a major competition that has big results. And I agree. Maybe that's where I don't even understand why they bothered resetting then.
    27:15
    Because there would be no promotion for the rest of the month. Everyone else could play the bug, too.
    27:22
    Okay, that's a good point. Right? That's a good point. Here's an alternative. Again, agreeing completely with you that it doesn't matter. Here's an alternative. Stern could have then just posted, here's what he did. because in proper competitive pinball, this is my experience, in the proper competitive pinball fashion, everyone's supposed to know how everything works, and people, at least, granted, in the more casual competitive environment I've played in, people have always been willing to explain exactly what they're trying to do and how it will work if you ask. So as long as, and I'm assuming because they patched it or they planned to patch it, they knew what he did. They knew how he got it. So everyone can do it. If you're good enough. Yeah, it was an unintended part of the programming. Oh, I'm sure it really truly was a bug. I'm not.
    28:17
    Stern hasn't leaned towards trillion scoring in ever, I don't think. I don't think they ever attacked from Mars up. But I was very surprised by how heated people were about this.
    28:31
    That's all. I mean, look at how heated people get about the stuff that comes up on the podcast. Yeah, absolutely. So I say, you know what? Fly your flag, people. People take this stuff so seriously. It's just how it is. And nobody's going to be better at just shaking it off than Stern Pinball. Okay.
    28:51
    I've learned Stern. I've taken the Stern Pinball school of social media. I'm still I'm not a graduate though I still struggle alright let's jump into American Pinball Dennis okay nothing's more murica than barbecue Zach I don't want to get sued okay I guess hot dog manufacturers might take issue with my statement about murica what's the most murica meal In other news, American Pinball launches a brand new game. Is it? Ah, brand new game. It's called Berrio's Barbecue Challenge. It comes in both classic and LE models. The classic edition, listener, is $69.95 plus shipping. So that's like Stern Pro price. Yeah and you saving there and the limited edition is plus shipping and it limited to 100 units Now that is a true LE That is a real LE. You know you got an LE when even American Pinball is like, maybe we'll let you do it. See, I'm going to get in trouble. All right, back to the dry rub. You got to save that for the back of the discussion. All right, so the LE features, the difference between the Classic and LE, include red powder coat trim package. You know, barbecue is red. It makes sense. Aura lighting pre-installed. What's aura lighting? I'm not like... So that was on the light you came for. It's like the built-in Penn Stadium thing. Okay. Interactive expression lighting. Think that or think hot rails, but facing down up on the plate. Okay. Magic glass shaker knocker limited barbecue red cooking apron and an Ellie brass plate. Is the shaker a red trimmer? Oh, it's not. It is not, thankfully. Missed opportunity, but okay. No, not missed opportunity. What I want to add to this is interesting here, listener. People aren't talking about this, but I'll point you in this direction. It says Aura Lighting System, which is new to me. I didn't know they called that, but it says it's pre-installed. Now, that terminology, use of term, would suggest to me that there is a possibility that those with the Classic Edition may be able to purchase this lighting system in the future, thus it not being pre-installed. Them indicating that it's pre-installed makes me think to myself, oh, okay, so it's going to be an option. Right. Well, and again, I mean, people, I'm sure, can buy magic glass, right, and shakers, right, and put them in the classics. But on the Galaxy Tank Force, whenever they premiered this Aura lighting system, it was on all the models. So it didn't happen to come as a kit. Okay, they're going to try and use it as an upsell on the classics is what you're thinking. I haven't communicated that to us, but then again, it's the same thing. Right. Tell me about all the photos you got. production timelines at this point are unknown. Maybe just to me, but I don't have any information for you as to when these are getting built. Well, I would assume now because there are some already out there in the wild. So if you order today, not sure when you would get your game.
    32:25
    But it's coming. So that's the game. You guys can go to like Pinball News, Nap Arcade to look at the pictures. Now, interestingly enough, you notated this. Like, I didn't know this was a thing. I don't know if you knew it was a thing, but you said you were looking at pinball news, had some photos. I went there, and I seen the regular photos, but then I seen additional, looked like official photos. But as a dealer, I didn't get any of these photos. I don't know where they came from. Yeah, no. Yeah, I ended up, I went to Nap Arcade first when the announcement happened. Or I guess when Jason had his article up because American Pimba was putting stuff up on their website, but I guess they didn't have the photos? Okay, so let's talk about timeline. This will help explain everything. I don't know, because I was busy that day working, and I wasn't able to read up on it for about 12 hours after it happened. Yeah, this will help explain everything. So here's how the timeline went. Again, just reporting the facts here, people.
    33:24
    Dealers got an email Friday. They got an email Friday morning. It said to us dealers, something to the extent, for sake of confidentiality, I won't read a word for word, but it said, hey, we're going to announce our next game on March 9th.
    33:41
    Saturday? Okay. Why not? Here's kind of what the price list is going to be on these things. Here's what we're presenting No pictures, but just saying Here's what it's called It's a tribute to Barry Ousler His last designed game So Barry O's Barbecue Challenge More information to come But this is confidential for now We're not releasing until tomorrow So then I had people messaging me Hey, this game looks like You know, X, Y, Z Whatever I'm like, how in the hell are they seeing It hasn't been announced yet So I go online, I'm like, oh shit, Nap must have got like leaked pictures or something. And then I read his thing and it says on their website. So I'm like, what? So I go to American Pinball's website and sure enough, they have pictures of the game there and they announced it. So I'm like, well, no, this is Friday morning. That's not Saturday. So I emailed American Pinball Gang. He said, I'll read you what I emailed. I said, so it's on the website, but we can't sell it until tomorrow? Question mark. Do we have picture or anything? Question mark. or do we have any LE allotment numbers? Question mark, right? As a dealer, those would be good things to know, right? I don't think I was doing anything negative there. You think you're going rogue? Yeah, I'm just saying, hey, let me get some clarification because if that makes sense. If you're selling the product, why aren't we selling the product? That kind of thing. And then they said, yeah, tomorrow's when we're taking orders. But that was immediately. But then later on, about a half hour later, they emailed everybody and said, due to a technical issue, we're launching now. Here we go. And I was like, shit. Okay. All right. So I guess we're launching now on Friday. And here's the links for the pictures and everything like that. Yet again, a bit of a messy launch. No time to really prep. Public was given information before sales network. No video promotions is a real that I know of. They've been sent out to locations around the country. Who chose those locations? I don't know. Who's selling them? So I thought, well, at least we'll get some yam cam video if there's no sizzle reel. So we got some yam cam stuff, listener yam cam, referring to a nonprofessional video that shows shakiness and glares and really usually makes your product look worse and is detrimental to sales in general. So we got that. But the launch was kind of messy. What I'm guessing happened, I don't know for sure, listener, But I'm thinking that they thought they were prepping the website and it was just public. So they had no choice but to launch. But then again, I'm like, why would you launch on a Saturday? That doesn't make much sense either. Does it? No. It's a weird time to do it. Friday would have been weird as well with the info coming out. It's a dead news time. You know, in political circles, it's a reason why they dump all of the bad news in the late afternoon on Fridays. because the news cycle needs to cover it, but people aren't paying attention. And we'll jump into the game, but from the start, it's kind of odd here. But the game itself, we heard rumblings, Dennis, that it was going to be based on barbecue. And we thought, oh, Lord, no. No, no, no, no. Like, did Pinball Adventures make this game? What? What do we barbecue? Then they're attaching Barry Osler to it, okay? On the website, the overview, I'm going to read some of it. says American Pinball is proud to announce Barry Osler's final all-new design, commemorating his illustrious 46-year career in game design. In honor of Barry, we're excited to introduce Barry O's BBQ Challenge,
    37:21
    a pinball adventure that captures the essence of summer fun and embodies the spirit of neighborhood barbecue festivals across America. Available in two delectable editions, limited edition and classic, each game is seasoned to perfection. Oh, I love this iteration. Ready to become the centerpiece of your collection. Commemorating Barry's legacy, the royalties from Barry O's BBQ Challenge will be directed to his estate, supporting his family and continuing his impactful contribution to the world of pinball. All right. So that's the overview, Dennis. One thing I will note, I thought it was kind of cool to commemorate Barry's legacy because we all like Barry Ousler and helping his family, supporting his family and stuff like that. But then I seen on, it was a video that was up, Kerry Hardy was in the chat and made comment. He said, hey, everybody keeps saying nicely done American Pinball for doing this for Barry's family. And, like, there was a royalty. It's pitching as, like, a royalty, every machine sold kind of thing. He said, but that's not how it was. He said, actually, it's Barry O's family that demanded American Pinball be paid for the IP. that they were using. So it wasn't really a gesture by American Pinball at all. It was almost a result of, hey, you can't use Barry O's name. Like, it's our, the family said, we need a cut of that. Now, again, I don't know what to make of any of it. But I'm just saying that's what Terry Hardy, who's also in Texas, was saying. It's odd, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't, I didn't read about that, so I don't know what his basis is for making that statement. All right, so the story and setting, this is basically a barbecue challenge. Endless entertainment, joy. It's a tribute not just to Barry's legacy in pinball design. I'm reading from the story and settings from the website, but also the rich culture of barbecue, making it a central addition for both pinball enthusiasts and barbecue aficionados. You and I have agreed that the theme is just bad, right? This is not a good theme. Not only is this a bad theme, and you know what? God bless Barry O., late Barry Ousler, and God bless his family. And you know what? To the idea that this was commemorating his legacy, it's very nice of you guys to do that as well. But I will say this. Hopefully I don't want to be a flame for this, but a flame.
    39:51
    Barbecue is a horrible thing for a pinball machine. And then when you attach somebody's name to it, Barry O.'s Barbecue Challenge, it's in the title. It's in the visuals. It's in the graphics. This man, Barry Osler, this caricature of him, that's a person nobody knows, Dennis. That's like saying Zach Minney's barbecue challenge. Nobody knows who that is. The small niche world of pinball, sure, sure, there's people there. There are many people in pinball that don't even know who Barry O is. So if you're not niche enough in barbecue, let's go even further making it Barry O's. I don't know who's coming up with these ideas. How does this get this far? I may get in trouble with this. I'm just being honest. No, it's an interesting point. I'm trying to be decent here. I don't understand how it gets to this point. It's not any – I don't view it personally as anything disrespectful to Barry to question the decisions that have been made here. Yeah. And so, in my opinion, I think the – here's what I think happened. This is total speculation.
    41:05
    I'm merely throwing things out there. I think what ended up happening is Barry unexpectedly, I think to a lot of people, just passed away.
    41:16
    He had been having some conversations about doing a game, maybe around this sort of – we knew about Food Truck, for example, out of Deep Root. So we knew he kind of had some thoughts about sort of a food-based game idea. And I think the team just sort of took the concept, and maybe because they wanted to honor him in some way, and so they start coming up with things. And then, like, as a creative exercise, if you start, like, for example, not to toot your horn too much, Zach, but let's just say, like, Greg came to me and came to Joel Engelberth, and she was like, We should do, let's come up with a Zach-themed game and just start, you're just like idea boarding it. You know, maybe you've had a few too many Boulevard Ales. And you start going in and you throw in all these ideas. Like, oh, yeah, well, you know, Zach once mentioned he really liked this. And then you're just putting all this stuff together. I think it's stellar. Well, just all sorts of stuff. And so, well, because you look at this, like you look at the art on the play field and stuff, and you'll see all these Easter eggs. Like they got the fire laying down for the, you know, rollover lanes at the bottom. I mean, you've got a picture of the space shuttle kind of in the center right of the plate. Yeah. So, I mean, I think what it was is they were just kind of, in my head, what I imagine is the team at American Pinball sat there, and they just started sort of celebrating Barry Osler. And then because it's an insular group that's talking, they start thinking that because they're excited about it, that the public will buy it.
    42:47
    I think that's where the disconnect happens. Plus, I think that you have people, at least a person, in a high-level position at American Pinball who keeps insisting to the team that unlicensed things like this, like Diner, worked in the late 80s, early 90s, you had all that style of game, and so it could work again, and it can't. But people get convinced that, no, it's okay. It doesn't matter if you don't know, because I'm sure someone's like, people aren't going to know who Barry Osler is, right? And then someone will be like, it doesn't matter. They'll know what barbecue and hot rods are. So that's going to be okay. So the people who want to sell, like, Barry are going to buy the game. And the people who like hot rods are going to buy the game. And the people who like barbecue, who doesn't like barbecue? Everyone loves barbecue. They're going to buy the game, too. And that's where all that, I think, comes from. Yeah. And the problem is, it's not like any of those individual statements are necessarily untrue. But you're running a company. It's not. You're running profits to keep the doors open. This isn't. But operators aren't the big market anymore.
    43:54
    And even if they are, at this point, operators understand. Just ask anyone who's routed Star Wars. It's not that it's the best player out there. It's that it's the Star Wars on it. No, it's really good. It's a really good player. Well, that's what people put in the second quarter for. But the first quarter is people recognize Leia and R2-D2 and all the rest. That's just how it is. And barbecue doesn't have that same thing going for it. I don't know why I'm so offended that, like, this kind of stuff offends me because I know how much time and money is put into the development of a complex product like this. And then we get this?
    44:35
    Yeah, it's offensive to time. This is an episode on appreciation of time. and this just this again this is pissing on time I don't know how it gets to this point it's their time here's the thing and maybe you've noticed this I'm sure some people are and I want to get hands on it but I've been sitting here because it was brought because well because I hadn't really seen it in action until just this morning when I got to watch you know what Zapfest or Zapcon or wherever some I saw some footage from whatever that show is I apologize I don't remember the name.
    45:12
    And I was looking at it, and then you had mentioned something to me about, you know, we got the pit targets, and then I'm looking, and I'm remembering the RPM targets. It's Hot Wheels. I've got a side-by-side. Right now, I have a side-by-side of the top-down promotional image of Hot Wheels, and I'm looking at the promotional poster image on Pinball News for barbecue, and it looks really similar. Yeah. Really similar. I mean, not a one-for-one. Sure. There are some differences, especially at the top center. There are some changes in that area, but not a lot. And so when they mention, and I noticed they were kind of, in my view, a little cautious with the phrasing in terms of where they talk about how some of this stuff has been commemorating his legacy, and they're talking about how all these other people kind of helped. The idea wasn't done by Barry.
    46:08
    He didn't have it all done before he passed away, so a lot of people came in and assisted that it was a collaborative effort. But they do open in the overview, if I recall, that they said that they're proud to announce a final all-new design. And I get the feeling that he had the concept and they took Hot Wheels as a base to make it a reality and then made some shifts. Maybe that helps with the development cost. It could. It very well could. At least that makes more sense. And you noted that, I mean, they're going in with a 100 LE limit, which I like on the sense that I think pinball companies are being way too generous with the volume of limited editions being available with limited editions. But I don't think that's why they did this. I think they did it because they do acknowledge that this is not going to be a strong seller as an LE. Yeah, and I don't – 100 makes more sense. But still not to this theme. In my opinion, they don't sell 100 of these. And you already brought up what you get with the LEs. Case in point, why is there not a different Translight for the LE? Yeah. It's the same Translight. Why isn't there not a different art package? There's so many things. So, now, of all of the American pinball games I've played, Hot Wheels has been my favorite. So, from a gameplay perspective, this could play pretty well. but you know I'd probably buy Hot Wheels over it because at least I know what that is well as in people aren't going to walk away from barbecue and say the shots are tight but findable I would rather they did you were talking I'm looking at the website here it says contributions from Steve Bowden, Dennis Nordman and Ryan McQuaid in design assistance played a vital role in refining the game's play field, creating a compelling and immersive experience. Other cool things, though, I'll give it credit for. David Thiel on audio. For sure. David Thiel elevated the game's auditory landscape through meticulous sound engineering and his composition of festive-themed soundtrack. I like that David Thiel is attached to this. And Jeff Teal is our friend. Jeff Teal is serving as the announcer in this game. Oh, is he? Yeah. Well, and the outline on the poster that you can see at Pinball News, The rules that Steve's proposing, I mean, it makes sense to me as pinball rules. Like, we've got a play field X that you can boost up with the top lanes. You've got these things that you're doing with the sauces, the hotter and the mild sauces to make recipes for point scoring. So it sounds like they've got some thoughts in terms of what to shoot for when in order to achieve scoring. So it sounds like it's got something for people to dive into. What are these scoring posts?
    48:53
    Oh, do you remember mushroom bumpers? Okay. From like EMs where they don't move and you hit them and the little top would pop up and they'd score points. That's what they're like.
    49:03
    They're not as cool looking as mushrooms, unfortunately. So the layout, as we're talking about, it looks like it's got some saucers that you can lock balls within. I like the idea of physical ball locks, even utilizing them as saucers as such. I also like the fact that, I don't know how it's going to work, they call them bash locks, where you can lock a ball and then it becomes a bash target. Now, I don't know how it measures that subsequent hit once a ball is in the saucer. Follow me, listener. A ball is in the saucer locked. Then you can hit that ball. And then does it act then as a captive ball? Does it have a target behind it? If so, that's pretty cool. I like that. That interests me. And the other thing that interests me, and then this is it, is the sweepable drop targets. You can't really see them, but they are there. They're in the right inner orbit, Dennis I don't know if you've seen these I'm looking now The right lollipop, they're behind that So they're lined up as I don't, it interests me because I don't Either these are just not going to work and they're dumb Or it'll be kind of cool They're facing Hopefully they've tested it so that it'll work This is sweepable So that's kind of cool Other than that I don't fucking get it I remember there were rumors that this was going to be a single-level game, and it's not a single-level game. Oh, this is interesting. Okay, the locks. If you're at the Pinball News site and there are some close-ups of them, they're not the typical saucer. They actually taper further back, so it looks like you can hit the ball, it'll roll back, and then it'll roll back and reactivate the switch. Oh, so they had that in the bash. Well, the right one's set up the same way. It's the same cutout where I'm guessing it'll roll and it'll push back down on the white tab and reactivate the saucer switch. And the rules know you already have the ball locked there. So any switch on or off, there's no grace period that's going to say, hey, that's another hit. Okay. Yeah. That's my guess based off of what little I can see. Because I'm getting a little bit of a picture of the switch on the left side. I kind of like the purpose of that. That's kind of cool. I also like that picture of the one with the left side, the left side, what I'm looking at, because you could also see, like, the piece of bubble gum they used to hold the ball on the ramp.
    51:27
    I do see it. I see it. You were probably wondering, how did they get that shot so perfect? That's how. Bubblicious is how. Oh, no.
    51:42
    That's how you know these are true promotional photos. That is. Juicy fruit. Thank you for that. that is good. I do like that they have a, they've got a spinner on the ramp. Like, on the ramp, on the ramp. Yeah, yeah, Mark Ritchie used to do stuff like that, like on Kingpin. Yeah, but that was entrance of ramp. This is like, midway to the, three-fourths of the way. Or no, no, one's entrance. Yeah, they're pretty much both entrance. I'm just, I'm not, I'm actually not keen on that, because I always worry that it's gonna compromise the, especially because you can You see, it looks like it's a physical switch. It's not an opto-spinner. So I worry that that's going to end up breaking your ball sometimes.
    52:26
    Little LCD screen in the mid-play field, I don't care about that. I really don't. I never care about that, really. I guess functionally it shows rules and stuff. But if I'm looking overhead at this thing, I'm trying to be decent. This art is really bad. This is an ugly pinball machine. I wanted to bring this up with you because I figured because you've done straight down the middle for so many years, and so you're familiar with YouTube, the first thing when I saw the top down and a lot of the art, a lot of the pictures of the characters and stuff, they're all, everything's got that traced line. Like a lot of these characters are traced in blue, and it reminds me of all the tutorials on, hey, do you want to put your picture superimposed in your thumbnail on YouTube? Here's this trick to use.
    53:13
    Glow it. Yeah, and then you glow it, which I actually don't. I've done it a few times, and I tend not to like it because I think it looks too much like I'm deliberately dropping a separate image in. Depending on what you're in it for, I guess. It's in the thumbnail. It's like people are like, it makes your thumbnail stand out because they see the line out, and it draws the eye and all that. There is no art on the play field, the cabinet, the translight, nothing that I find appealing. And when I say that, I'm not exaggerating. Nothing. There's not one character. There's not one gradient. There's not one barbecue sauce container. Nothing looks good. I don't want to see the stupid flames. I don't want to see macaroni and cheese on plastics.
    54:04
    That's a Photoshop. That's a real picture of macaroni and cheese. At this point, it's not an illustration. The pulled pork is not an illustration. I don't want to see an illustrated pepper. I don't give a fuck. This is ugly. I don't see wood. I am going to get in trouble. This is ugly. It's really, really ugly. When I saw the footage from the show, I was concerned about the, just like the clips of cooking meat on the display. Yeah, on the L3 screen, people bitching about Elton John's slideshow. This is a slideshow of me.
    54:38
    Slow-mo pulled pork being pulled up with tongs. I really do like barbecue a lot, but I just don't know. What are we doing? I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone here. What is going on?
    54:51
    Is there any extra toys in this game? Not really. Kick out saucers and spinners. Anything else you want to add? I don't know what else to add. No, I hope it's at TPS so I'll get a chance to try it. I have a feeling it's going to feel an awful lot like maybe it's a more refined Hot Wheels. Maybe some of the complaints that they had. The biggest complaint I always remember hearing about Hot Wheels was just the RPM targets were worth too much. So Steve could just address that in rules. But I'm curious if it plays a little bit better than Hot Wheels did. We had a Hot Wheels on location, and the problem there wasn't really the layout. It was once those flippers warmed up and people couldn't make the shots. Which is interesting because it wasn't like it was particularly steep ground. We're not talking Capcom here. What I'll say to conclude, listener, is I'm in a situation where I don't know what to do. I'm being very transparent here, Dennis. We haven't even talked about this. When something like this happens, I don't know what to do because I respect the hell out of the creators on a product like this. I respect the heck out of Barry Osler I like American Pinball, the company I feel horrible But I can't lie to people I can't downplay how I feel about this Because I do feel strongly about it When I'm in this situation, I never know what to do I'm not even talking about being a dealer Just as a person providing feedback in a medium that's supposed to be for entertainment here, of course. So I'm going to inflect more. I'm going to use stronger words, right? I'm doing that, listener. I'm wholeheartedly doing that. Well, this is an entertainment platform. Yes. So I'm doing some of those things, but I do feel this is how I really feel, but I feel bad saying it. I don't know how to deal with it. Well, because the people are not. I mean, at least I know a number of these people who work there, and I like them. Yeah, that's where I'm at.
    57:02
    I don't think I'm as worked up as you are about this, though. That's good. My bluntness. I could be wrong. I've been wrong on a lot of things. This game I do not think will be successful, even if it's good. I just don't think it will be successful. And what would be good would have to be the things I mostly care about, which are rules and layout, because I agree that the art package isn't strong. I mean, it's just not an attractive game for the lineups. It's not going to work on that regard. It's not, from what I've seen on the display work, that's not particularly impressive. From the theme aspect, it's, I guess, it's trying to be a celebration of Americana, but this style of unlicensed game we've just seen repeatedly does not do well, and it's not mechanically interesting, especially if you've played Hot Wheels already. It's not mechanically interesting. So I just don't see them selling very many, And I hope that they'll be able to later this year move on to another title and maybe, you know, move on to one that's actually licensed. Because this is just not as an honor project, you know, as a thing out of respect that they felt they needed to do for Barry. I guess I understand it in that regard. I don't. Look, sorry to interrupt you. No, it's fine. Our Discord, somebody in, was it, I'm trying to think, TP in Discord. Somebody said it perfect. They said this makes sense, like an honorary thing to do, as a homebrew. That's true. They nailed it. It would have made more sense then, yeah. That's exactly what this makes sense as, an honor, a tribute piece, because you can make pinball machines, so why not honor Barry in that? Take it to different shows. Have it in your showroom. Add American Pinball, those kind of things, even if you want to sell five or six of them, to those maybe who are really fans of Barry Altsler and stuff like that. I get that, right? So that is the correct answer, sell it as a homebrew piece. The other thing is this. If you're making this a mass product to sell, I think what they're trying to do here, they can tell me otherwise, I'll disagree and I won't believe them, is they're trying to corner the barbecue restaurant market.
    59:17
    They're wanting to sell these in barbecue places. they're putting the hot rods on there. They have all of that. I think that's what they're trying to do. But they, which is, look, and you can do that. You just, you failed at doing that because of two things. One, you put Barrio in there. You have now, you've killed that market because that market don't know who the hell Barrio is. Number two, if you were going to do that, whether it's the David Fitch or whoever, executives over at American Pinball American Pinball thank you Can I use that Dennis Can I You can It feels right Use what you want It feels right
    59:55
    This ain't like copyright stuff. Here's what you guys should have done. If you're going to do that, I don't think I would have got on board, but I would have said, you know what? Good experiment. You call a barbecue challenge, and you go with the hot sauce and hot rods. All of that works. You get rid of Berrio, of course. You can make a tribute game or two for that. But then you find a way to utilize some resources so that you can personalize each and every one of these games for that particular barbecue joint. Because that's the only people that are going to fucking buy this game is a barbecue restaurant. They're not going to now because Barry O and there's no customization. But you make it Route 66 Barbecue Challenge because the restaurant's called Route 66. You find a way to print them a different translate, kind of like the Haggis thing was doing with Kelts.
    60:44
    Personalize it. That way you can get their logo. You can have their logo in the screenshot, the LCD, right? You can maybe give them a couple of swing shots that they can personalize, that they can print out themselves, something to that effect so you can personalize it. Then I can see some barbecue places saying, yeah, it's got hot rods on it, man. It's got our pulled pork. I love that. Oh, man, it pulls up the specials on the LCD screen. That's easy to do through an app. But that's great. Let's do that. And, you know, that all makes sense to me at that point. But this is not that. This is a fail. I mean, I see where you're going with it. But the only way I would have ever, if that was the hope, honestly, the only way I would have even thought, okay, well, in that case, They should have market research to get a baseline on how many places might even buy it. Look, I can't speak for every restaurant. Actually, I probably can't even speak for any restaurants. But I can tell you that I live in Kansas City. We are a, not the only, but we are a barbecue capital. We take our barbecue very seriously. I do not, off the top of my head, know of any barbecue restaurants where you can go in and play a pinball machine or an arcade game. And here is where I think the struggle is. That sort of stuff makes sense for places like pizza restaurants where you have to sit and wait for the food to be made. Like Pizza Hut used to have the arcades and stuff. But barbecue, because they slow cook most of the stuff ahead of time, you get in. Space is at a premium because these places, again, it's Kansas City. You do not last long if you have bad barbecue because there's too many affordable competitive options. So space for sitting and eating is at a premium. people just are queued in line. They have to stay in line to place their order. As soon as they place their order, the food's being put together. No one hangs around unless they're eating or standing in line to get food. It's not... I don't think anyone was like, I'm going to give up two tables to site a pinball machine that is not going to remotely make as much money as those two tables would.
    62:48
    You're not wrong. Bars do this because it keeps people there drinking. That's why the barcade thing is being successful. I don't think it applies to... It's like playing pinball. Why does McDonald's not put pinball in? There's no point. You'd rather have the tables. Yeah, but if you're thinking to yourself, all right, all the restaurants in the world, what's the type of restaurant that probably would be okay with a pinball machine? I can see them. I can see where you'd start with the hot rod shows and the parking lots and the barstools. I think you'd be more likely to buy this not as a barbecue restaurant, but if you were a competitive barbecue person. Like, I work with people who, like, that's their hot, like, my, you know, one of my hobbies is pinball. I work with people whose hobby is barbecue. They go and they compete in these things. As amateurs, they don't own restaurants. They might buy a game like this if it was more generic or if they could get it themed around. But it has none of the licensed stuff. There's no Gates Barbecue sauce. There's no, there are big names in barbecue. Like, they don't have the names of the grills and stuff that, you know, the smokers. I don't know that stuff. Where's my Traeger? Yeah, it's like people know this stuff, like Peter built trucks and stuff. It's the same with barbecue and guitars and Fender and all that. They're naming things. We know all these things. But those are licenses, and you know the rule about licenses with American Pinball. Here's what I think they should have done. Here's where I think they should have gone. It was your route on the homebrew thing, but actually elevated it a little bit. I would have said, like, make like 10 or 12 of these things. One LE version. with a new Translight, and you auction it. And the proceeds from that go to Barry Osler's family. I get that. And then you sell the rest at a premium for people that, and maybe you auction all of them. But then they, but. Keep one or two for shows or whatever. You can't justify all of the work and time and money that goes into coding. That's the problem. You can fucking have an artist do this in a couple of weeks, and I'm downplaying that. I know it takes longer, but this is so bad artwork-wise. I can justifiably say so. You can do all of that. Are you willing to? I can populate a play field in a couple of weeks. The coding is the problem.
    65:02
    You will not put that much money into coding a one-off game. You just won't do it. No, in those scenarios, I would have recommended taking an exam. Again, I would have recommended taking the wholesale, taking the Hot Wheels layout, and then just adjusting the names of the modes. But it's all the same rules. That would have been my suggestion. Here's a question that popped in my head now that you've talked about this. So, have you changed your opinion on letting AI do the art?
    65:31
    Boy, oh boy. And if you're weighing it, I'm just going to say, if you scroll down towards the end of the Pinball News article and looking at some of those close-up photos over on the right-hand side, I want you to take a look at that corn on the far right with the melted butter. I can't believe I'm searching through pictures looking for corn. It's the one to the right side of the plate. I want you to look at that, and then I want you to think about AI. Well, scroll up. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Scroll up, Dennis. Okay. I want you to look at the one where it shows the right lock. You've seen the corn. Yeah. I want you to look at the mac and cheese and that pulled pork. Yeah.
    66:16
    Is that the pulled pork? I thought that was coleslaw. It could be. That is a real picture. And it's just put on a white plate. Like a real picture.
    66:28
    It's not illustration. It's a picture of mac and cheese. I'm just going to scroll back down and just look at the ball shots, all the ones that I can see where you can see the bubble gum, because there's more than one.
    66:41
    Fuck, American pinball, damn it. That's how I'm going to stage my photos. Honestly, I never thought about doing that, but it makes sense.
    66:50
    Yeah, well, when you don't have a camera that's quick enough. Yeah, he's just... Oh, see, I can tell from the one that's the very last photo that says the space shuttle artwork. You can see the cell phone being held up in the reflection of the ball. It's a cell phone? Yeah, you can tell. It's an Apple. Damn it.
    67:07
    Hey, you know what? The Apple has a good camera, so I can't... I mean, I think I can see the... Yeah, you can see the... Do you not see the little Apple shape in the reflection of the ball? No comment.
    67:20
    I don't know. I use an Android phone, so I don't know. I'm pretty sure. If anybody is offended by my discussion or my takes here, I do apologize for you being offended. I do have one more final thought. It's not about the game. What are you going to kick now? No, no, I'm not going to kick. But here's, well, I mean, I guess it is a criticism, but it's kind of like the thing with GTF and the lunchboxes. They should be selling the aprons. It shouldn't have just been an LE thing. They should sell the aprons. Especially if they were told that a share of the apron money would go to Barry's family. Yeah, but what's the, oh, the apron. The apron, the barbecue apron with his name and the child. That's what people who are pinball fans who know Barry, they're not going to buy a $7,000 game. They'll buy an apron. Do you think it's got any Popeye references anywhere? I didn't see any. It might be a taker then. I didn't see any. You know, I mean... Oh, my gosh. If there's two types of food, like two pieces of corn, two roasted chickens, maybe that's symbolizing the ark.
    68:32
    Those baked beans. I thought Oktoberfest didn't work. Boy. I was really harsh on the theme of Oktoberfest. I had people write in to me saying I was being way too mean to Oktoberfest and that they actually love Oktoberfest as a holiday. At least they include beer. I didn't even know about Oktoberfest until I was an adult. I didn't know anything about it. I still don't think it was a good theme choice. American people, I'm sorry. I'm just being honest.
    69:05
    Speaking of controversy, we can move on now, right? Yeah, yeah. Sorry, my apron statement was my last statement. I just go back to look at that corn, the charred corn. With the butter. There's butter. One of them sitting in a pool of butter, melted butter.
    69:22
    Haggis Pinball. Fuck me. I haven't heard anything new. You're making this hard on me at this point. I need a break. I need a break from pinball podcasting. Haggis Pinball. All right. A little controversial on the forum. Social media this last week. People still angry This is what two episodes straight Accusing the pinball show of Putting a little haggie discussion behind Paywall making accusations That I'm now charging as a dealer Charging people ten dollars To find out what their Updates is like I'm trying to say it without laughing So the narrative Was that we Have information that Would help people With that have deposits in But we are refraining from sharing that information purposefully so that we can profit from these people who are already possibly out money. So take the time to say that's simply not true, number one. Number two, as a dealer, I can only speak as a dealer, if any of Flippin' Out Pinball customers have any questions, any concerns, just as with any other product we sell, you can contact us. and we will tell you whatever you want to know that we have information for. Nothing has changed. Having a segment on episode 148 behind a paywall about my opinion, your opinion on what this Haggis update from Damien meant, that was an opinion piece.
    70:59
    There was no information there or anything like that. Just to clear it up for people. And for those who knew that but still wanted to write a narrative, fuck off. lick my spare rib. Spare rib? Are you a baby back guy? Or the big old fatty St. Louis style? Yeah, I usually get the full rib size. I knew you would. I so knew you would. Why? You seem like that type.
    71:30
    I don't usually order ribs. I go with a baby back. They pull off the bone a lot easier. Sorry, back to Hengist. So, yeah, if you want to go back and listen to our opinion on what this might mean, then, yeah, be a club member and go listen. Anything to add there? Am I missing anything? No, I didn't get any complaints. Of course not. People are, yeah, the whole pen side, like, how dare this son of a bitch? He's so gross to do that. It's like, what if I didn't do anything? Yeah, but we want you to have done something. They want you to have the inside info and you to share it. If I have the inside info, then I've moved on. I think all I can do is guess, Zach. The only guess I have for you is that they thought you knew more than the public announcement. I guess so. Here's the other thing I want to clear up. I've said it publicly, but the narrative feels better if you can say, Flippin' Out's not going to give you your money back. They're going to keep your money, and he's going to buy a barbecue-based pinball machine with it. I've said it publicly. Hell, you said it on EGP. I thought we were being kind as a company, flipping out pinball, we as in me and my wife, saying up front whenever Haggis Pinball was selling Centaur, we said, look, if for some reason Haggis Pinball goes under, we will refund you your Centaur deposit. Not sure how much more clear I could say that. But again, there's just, I think, based off of what little I've gone and read on this, because I haven't checked a whole lot out, is some people want you to now say, well, now that people are scared, they want you to say you'll give them the deposit back without them having to pay off. Yes, there is a narrative that says that how dare I keep it right now. I should refund every single person's, and I should eat the cost of all of that. Not because that was a term, because those weren't the terms that were agreed upon. No, just because it feels better?
    73:26
    Well, yeah, I'm assuming that would be the argument. There's no other argument, really. So that's where we're at. I mean, you take your chances. I don't want to be overly dismissive because no one wants to lose money on these things. But that's why you, I assume, why you gave the assurance that you did. But that doesn't, y'all ain't Darth Vader. You don't get to alter the deal and pray that you alter it any further sort of stuff. It's like, yes, Haggis chose to be very transparent about their recapitalization. I would be deeply concerned.
    74:00
    We talked about it in our opinion piece. I would be as well. And unless, I mean, a lot of people have praised how you've done business as flipping out pinball. I've bought a game through flipping out pinball. I would just say that until you show that you can't keep your word, I wouldn't worry too much about it. But the word is the word. You don't get to change the word, and the word was if they fail. You know, if they can't deliver the Centaurs, then you'll get your deposit back. Not once you get scared, you get your deposit back. What's unfortunate, too, is I've not seen, and correct me if I'm wrong, listener,
    74:37
    I don't know of any other dealer that's done that, saying, hey, if they go under, I'll give you your money back. And it's like, well, that's not good enough. Yes, Cointaker did an escrow-esque style thing with Big Lebowski's after the early adopters. It was a different structure. And I don't know what that aspect was on the refunds. It was more than just assuring that Dutch wasn't going to actually get paid until the game was ready to come over, like the full payment. They may have still very well had to do deposits. Oh, yeah, the forms. As you know, that's standard with all the manufacturers. The forms, there's people talking about, no, you can still see who's flipping out pinball for that $1,000. Like, no, no, he can't keep his non-refundable. No, just sue him and you'll get your money. It's like, what is wrong with you people? I need a break from podcasting. I just, what else? Let's keep going. Chicago Gaming. Oh, Pulp Fiction. SEs continues to slowly shift. How about that? Why don't they non-continue to fastly shift? I want them to shift quicker, but we were able to open one for the showroom and then we gave it to Joel to stream so we can get some video out there for people. You're seeing them all across the country, and they continue to be built.
    75:55
    Interesting, very interesting thing I've seen when we unboxed it. There was a card that was taped to the game that said it was advertising the ability to connect Pulp Fiction Pinball online with Scorebit functionality. So it looks as if it's teamed up with Scorebit. I forgot Scorebit was still around. Yeah, so Scorebit functionality. I haven't heard much out of them, granted I don't go looking, since JJP dropped them. That's why I was kind of surprised by this. And basically, it's an online kit for $100. It'll include a security USB dongle, software update, micro SD card, and a Pulp Fiction Pinball Collector's Edition T-shirt. Okay. I know a lot of people who are big fans of how Scorbit works, like a lot who liked it better than Insider Connected. But Insider Connected is connected. I've never heard that. Well, I think it was just the – this may have been more people like streamers and stuff and the ability to pull the scores in. Especially for my old games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, technologically, it's very cool. Yeah, it's hard because Insider Connect is just so good. Well, you know me and judging these startups and their subscription services and it being a subscription service, I think just – it was always going to be a tough pill unless you used it a lot. Mm-hmm, yeah. So I was interested to see that. I do have some quick first impressions. We're not going to do three. I like three. I don't. But the thing that stood out to me when I opened this damn game up, Dennis, I am not sure that there is a product on the market that is built.
    77:28
    Look, we hear that from Chicago Gaming Company. I get it. But even understanding that, listener, it's so good. It is built so well. The details, and not every machine is going to be perfect out of the box, right? We've seen a couple games with, like, some trough issues, some trough board issues. So I'm not saying that, but just the quality of the build, it's just so nice. I had to give them credit here on the podcast. Like, take the back glass out and look at the wood inlay for the lighting and the displays. even like the turn key to open up that behind to the board and stuff like that. It's kind of like a rubber stopper.
    78:17
    It's not going to make sense here in podcast land, but it's just so, so well done. I can't get over it. I just can't get over it. It's so nice. And the game is fantastic. The game is so much fun. It's going in my collection. It's one of those that usually I'll get one for the showroom, and then since the manufacturer doesn't want to give me two, you know, one for media purpose and one for showroom, not that I'm complaining, but I have to give it to Joel so he can stream it. I was upset to have to give it to his ass because I really wanted to keep playing it. It's one of those games that you can check out. We did a video on flipping out pinball straight out of the middle, a gameplay guide. So we give an overview of the game, do some gameplay, a lot of fun.
    78:59
    One day Dennis will watch that one. Maybe. Flippin' Out with Friends has been streaming that. Even I've seen Carl D'Angelo with IU Pinball. He's been streaming it as well, trying to get to the end of that big Divine Intervention wizard mode.
    79:14
    It is possibly one of the coolest pinball machines ever made. It is worth the hype, and we'll talk about that later on in this episode. Spooky Pinball, I also received Texas Chainsaw Massacre CE. I'm number eight, so they're still, you know, slowly getting out there. I think I've seen there's one dealer showroom with number 15, but they were locals. They picked it up. So we're still, I guess, the first 20 or so of these.
    79:39
    They're still coming out slowly. I haven't had much time on TCM, so I'll report back here in a couple weeks. But I got that. Jersey Jack Temple, Elton John CEs are shipping. It's all coming out now, Dennis. All shipping. Domestically, Elton John CEs are shipping. And then another bit of news in Jersey Jack land, Guns N' Roses, they're reporting as getting a, quote, significant code update in Q2. Wow. When is Pirates getting its final wizard mode?
    80:13
    Q3? I don't know. Okay. Nobody can get to that anyway. Hey, you know, with the glass off and everything.
    80:23
    March Madness. Where's Eric? I've got it. Barrels of Fun. Those are rolling out, too. Labyrinth Pinball. Fastly? Well, I'm impressed with them being a new company, rolling out what they are, when they are. I think they're probably stripping at a better pace than CGC right now. But CGC just started. It's hard to gauge. But I will say that Barrels of Fun, I believe if I'm estimating, I'd estimate about three weeks behind their intended schedule at this time. about three weeks is what I'm getting. And that's based on our initial estimates for our first batch going out, about three weeks behind. So we still have customers that for the next three weeks will be hopefully getting some games here and there. And if you're wanting to play a Labyrinth pinball listener, super simple to do. There's a lot of landing spots across the country for Labyrinth that we've helped accommodate flipping out pinball. Pizza J, and that's not Pizza East or Pizza West, but it's Pizza J in Providence, Rhode Island. Tip Top Pinball in Virginia. Arcadia in Portland, Maine. Quarters Arcade Bar in Salt Lake City, Utah. There's got to be one by you guys. The Flipper Room, Northern California. Wonderland Brewing Company in Colorado. Super Apari Game Room, Charlotte, North Carolina. Game Galaxy in Samaritan, Tennessee. The One Up Arcade Bar in Greenwood, Colorado. Smoke a dupe and go play some Labyrinth. The Pinball Lounge. Eric Stone's very own stomping grounds The Pinball Lounge in Oviedo, Florida Eric Stone's going to find a way To beat up on the labyrinth Arcade Super Awesome in Ohio And coming very soon to Pastime Pinball In Vermont, Mile Wide Beer Company In Louisville, Kentucky and more So shout out to all Of those locations, thank you for supporting Flippin' Out Pinball and if you Have a location or you know someone That's got a location and you want to be A Flippin' Out family operator location, reach out to us. Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com Pinball Brothers. I saw this on Nap Arcade. Looks like Pinball Brothers revealed an alien topper. The video of it. We've seen what it looks like visually in pictures before, but now we can see the interactivity that it displays. It's cool. It is, but toppers are so 2022.
    82:44
    Ouch, man. Alien topper. I don't have any updates on when they're shipping, though. It's supposed to be January, then February. One of those deals. Oh, Texas Pinball Festival. Maybe we can see the Alien Topper there. We'll see Elaborant there. We'll see Elton John Seas there. We're going to see Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Looney Tunes there. We'll see Pulp Fiction there. We're going to see it all there. We're going to see Barbecue Bonanza. That's going to be there, too. Are we going to do the moniker for American Pinball? Are we going to go, BBQ? No. I don't know if it works as well. I'm not sure we can muster that excitement.
    83:24
    Mustered that excitement. What's a pirate's favorite part of barbecue? I just made this up. So stupid. I don't know. It's the vinegar.
    83:37
    Oh, my gosh. That's terrible. Vinegar. I would unsubscribe from the show. I was thinking of subscriptions. I want to talk about Texas Pinball Festival. It's coming this week. I want to talk about the expectations, what may be there, what may not be there. If you're going, if I'm going, all that is known about Texas Pinball Festival, I want to talk about that. I think we should do so for our official club members. Are you not worried that people will claim you have inside knowledge that you are not sharing with the public? I'm waiting for Paul at TPF to be like, you son of a bitch. Why are you putting this behind a paywall? So, yeah, go over to patreon.com slash the pinball show. And with your support, we have some exclusive content at the $10 level that you can listen to, as well as joining our private discord. That's a bunch of fun. At the $25 level, the Nordman level, that is, you can get even more perks on top of the official club membership, including picking topics, doing our happy hour hangout, commemorative decals, et cetera. For $100 a month, that level, the Screaming Goat Club, you get your own nickname. You get a shout-out on every show. You get to come on the show. You get private correspondence with Dennis and I. You get the paywall polo and much, much more. So if you want to hear about Texas Pinball Festival, why it could be a boom and why it could be a bust, tune in right now.
    85:02
    We do have to say thank you to some people, though. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. These are our Screaming Goat Club members. We just talked about it. you've got to think individuals such as the bobcat. Rodney, do you have a hard time saying bobcat without saying it like that?
    85:20
    No, I don't have trouble. It's a bobcat. What do you think a bobcat would taste like if barbecued? I think it probably tastes a lot like a regular cat with barbecued.
    85:32
    Hold the bomb. Oh, shoot that fucker. Yeah, I think a bobcat would be a little chewy. Because they're active. Yeah, they're chewy. A lot of gristle. I've never ate a regular cat that I know of. Thank you, Steve. The bumblebee. Bumblebee! You ever ate a bumblebee? Not with barbecue. No. It's got a sting. Do you like your barbecue to have a little sting on it? I prefer the more vinegary sauces, so maybe in that sense, but not like really hot barbecue sauces. I like a little bite in my barbecue. Not too much. Like a little bit of a bite. Do you go to the barbecue every time you go to Texas Pinball Festival? No, actually, I went to Hard Eight once. I never go because why would I go for inferior barbecue to what I live with? Ouch. Damn.
    86:20
    Thank you, Panther. Much appreciate your support, buddy. Panther, kind of like a bobcat, I would think, if you ate a panther. How would you like a panther prepared?
    86:32
    Probably in a pool of melted butter. That does sound good. With grill marks on it. corn cobbie. Damn. His little paws are charred. Oh. The kineticist, thank you so much, Colin, for the continued support.
    86:50
    Also, shout out Twip. I don't know how that works now. But the kineticist, you're our grill master, Harry. Yeah.
    86:58
    The falcon. Ta-da! Chicken, Shirley. Tastes like chicken. I would think maybe a little more gamey. Well, yeah. I mean, It's not confined in a pen Thank you Frank The shaker motor that we appreciate today Do you think barbecue would be better if the grills shook?
    87:24
    Shake up You know what? Shaking up your charcoal sometimes You got to stir it up a little bit Why don't you get a grill shaker? Not a bad idea Yeah this doesn't sound like fire Hear me Weber? Fox Joe Fox Thank you so much for the support, Joe. And I want to have your baby. I love you. What about the fox? I think a fox would taste... Like dog. I don't think any of this stuff would taste good. With enough sauce, maybe. I do like some weird... I'll eat some fowl and some bird and stuff, like a dove. And I've eaten duck. I like duck. But duck you can get at the grocery store. It's not like a weird bird. I still think it's kind of weird. A little greasy.
    88:06
    Oh, I mean, it's different than chicken, but... Yeah. I've not eaten other weird shit like squirrels. I guess I have, but not much. Yeah, you've blocked a lot of that.
    88:18
    You forgot about the year you had to survive on a squirrel itself. Lived inside of a bear. What's that? What's that I hear? It's a bell. It's a dinner bell. Charlie, thanks for the support.
    88:35
    And thank you for ringing your bell. A chuck? Yeah, maybe the theme had been a chuck wagon. Maybe it had worked a little better. Oh, the dude. Thank you, dude. William, much appreciated. Support. Mr. Treehorn tells us that he had to eject you from his garden party. That you were drunk and abusive. Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man. I think I reached out to William. I was like, hey, do you have any interest in this game? He was like, the dude's going to have to pass. on this one.
    89:07
    Shit. How many have you sold? Oh, Dennis. All right. Let me say a number, and you tell me if it's more or less. Lower.
    89:22
    Lower. I was going to say 10, but okay, lower. Thank you for the support, Will. Will's smoking something, but I'm not sure it's barbecue. Thank you to all of our supporters, Not just the screaming go club members but Nordman level members and the official club members members One of the favorite things that we do on discord is whenever these launches come out I love it It like one of my favorite things is everybody having their opinions Even like Dennis and I will throw in some, every once in a while, inside info on the launch or what we heard about prior to it launching and now that it's launching, we can talk about it. Even from a distribution manufacturer side of things, like the launch kind of stuff that I know of, we'll throw in there because it's a private discussion. but that's a lot of fun. So I do encourage people to sign up to that patreon.com slash the pinball show. So you can be a part of that as well. One of my favorite things is this last week, there were, there was a discussion of all the rumored themes that everyone was like rating if they were a yes, maybe or no on the buys. But then they were like, Zach, you should compile. I thought, ah, that is not going to happen. I almost, I almost thought about doing it. The problem was everyone invented their own scale. So it was going to be a big guy. So Patreon supporters, Dennis here. All right. Listen up. If you want us to do something like that, you guys got to use the same rating scale. You can't have someone be like, no and hell no. Like those are two different levels, and I don't know how to interpret that. Or weak maybe, maybe, strong maybe, yes, yes, plus, plus. Like what does that mean? Is a regular yes a soft yes? That implies it, that I'm not clear? So I'm just saying figure it out. Okay, figure it out. You know what, Jeff? Right now, we know Jeff. Jeff is on it. I guarantee you. Oh, he loves data. He is on it. And a reminder that the next pinball show, Happy Hour Hangout, is scheduled for March 13th, 8 p.m. Central. That's this Wednesday. Coming right up. Whoa. And I've already got it posted on the Patreon. So if you're a Nordman level or above, you should see it now. For all you people that are signed up for the $10, bump yourself up to that $25. Come hang out with us this Wednesday at 8 p.m. Central. It's going to be fun. Last time we went over. Why did we go over? Well, we were having a discussion. I was passionate. Well, part of it was the guy doing the Sharky Ball mod was going to hop in, so we added another hour.
    92:02
    Yeah, you had been drinking. I had been. And you were just like, I want to share my thoughts. The Woodford Reserve double-oaked. Yeah. I was like, Zach, I'm not sure. The guy already has got a waiting list for that. Mom, I'm not sure he really needs your suggestions. He's like, why did I come here? I want to talk about the lack of the lower jaw on that ball. I'm going to tell that Canadian a piece of my mind. Hopefully he did. I hope not. I hope he actually made it even more cartoony in a response. He was probably hoping that this week it would be trending up on Timbal Martinsen. It's a Bobcat Techno Lord.
    92:44
    I like your style. It's trending up this week. The Lord of the Rings. How about that? Man, you ever heard of this game, Dennis?
    92:54
    No. Not the Gollum video game. No, no, no. The Lord of the Rings by Stern Kindle, 2000 and old. This thing continues to trend up. There's a lot of games that are dropping in value in the current marketplace. Not this one. $8,500 to $12,000, depending on condition. It's a wide range, I get it. But still, it is upholding its value better than most every counterpart built during that decade. So, nicely done, Lord of the Rings. If you want one, if you want a really nice one, you're going to have to pay for it. It also, I mean, if we're talking about data points here and why this is training up, not just from a monetary data point, but also from the Pinside Top 100, it's actually jumped up a level or two there as well. It just is what it is. Remember, numbers don't lie, baby. Did you see my title last week? I thought that was clever. Nobody said anything, though. Nobody gave me any credit for that title, numbers don't lie, from the list.
    93:53
    Yeah, I thought it was nicely done. I mean, I liked the rhyme, but I think everyone was like, why would you? But why, why, why? That's how he would say lies. Why? Numbers don't why. Oh. You get it? I do now. Yeah. Numbers don't why. I mean, you have to think back on it after you've listened to the episode is, I think, part of the problem.
    94:20
    Yeah, but. I mean, you know what? No, I think I don't like the title. Change it. It was good. Yeah, keep it then. I don't care. Also trending up this week besides that title is Pulp Fiction. It is true. No, it's not. It is true. Yeah. No. It already, like all the sales are already there. It plays well. And on the secondary market, those damn LE spots that have not been produced yet are still selling for $12,000 to $13,000. That is a data point that cannot be argued with. It's just what they say up in Chicago. It is what it is. I always hate that phrase. It is what it is. No. What do you mean it is? Why? I think I used that phrase earlier. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. It's a cop-out. It is what it is. No. It's a statement of... Well, what is that even saying? It's saying, what can you do? What are you going to do? What can you do? It's not like, what will we do? And then somewhere along the line, what can we do? And you know what? You don't always have the power to change it. You can't fight fate. It is what it is. Darby, you can't fight fate. Bob Hagen's citizen. Where's that pimple machine? Earlier when you were talking about Darth Vader, you made the reference like you can't force him. Pray I do not alter it any further. Yeah, it's a line from where he talks that Lando gets upset because he says that, you know, they're going to load the Wookiee on his ship and everything. And Lando's like, no, you said that Leia could stay here. And Vader goes, I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further. Yeah, but the lower hanging fruit and the more relevant fruit was the, It was the Dune reference where, like, release me.
    95:54
    Cut the rope. Kill him. The voice. Oh, the voice? Yeah. The Benny Cheshire voice? Yeah. The little weird-ass, creepy.
    96:05
    You sounded like Bill Burgey. His was the ring. It always got on his neck. It always creeps me out every time I hear it. I've watched. Yes. Speaking of, it's relevant here because turning up this week is Dune Part 2.
    96:20
    Man, bringing the box office back with this film. Nice job, Dennis Vunuev, Canadian. Long live the fighters. Yeah. So I went back. I watched Dune Part 1 in preparation for Part 2. I thought, maybe I get a little time this week if I don't go to TPA. You know, that's like my reward for the sadness that I'll have if I don't go to TPA. But you'll have to tune into the paywall to find out whether I'm going or not. But do you, have you watched part two yet? I have.
    96:54
    And? I know you're a big fan of the books and stuff. Well, I mean, I knew the story from the movies. I got the books, my sister bought them for me for like my birthday a couple years ago. And I finally finished the last of the six. So I started to really slow down and struggle after the first three, which I got through pretty quickly, which are the ones that most people talk about. But, yeah, no, I mean, they made some notable changes. I felt more notable than the first half. I felt stronger about, you know, some of the plot lines are cut out to make, I mean, it's a long movie, so choices, sacrifices had to be made. But they also made some fairly extreme changes as well, which I think overall people will be much more receptive, and the reviewers are basically bearing that out, that this is a very good way to basically film these concepts. It gets, especially the further you go, the harder it kind of is. So, yeah, it's a really, I think overall it's a really strong piece of film. And that's why there are already talks about that Dennis is working on writing up Dune Messiah, the second book, in terms of the film treatment. I thought it closed to that after part two, no? It just closes out the first book, Dune. He's talking about doing the second book, Dune Messiah, which continues the story of Paul Atreides. Spoilers. His story continues. Oh, all right. Don't give away too much. I don't want to go. No, no, I won't. I'm just letting you know. It sounds like you really did enjoy it. Okay. Yeah, no, it was. Yeah, I was really looking forward to it. Now, I wanted to ask you, do you think, especially given this massive box office success, that Stern's going to want to do a Dune or maybe they were thinking about doing a Dune pinball, but then if the worm doesn't eat the ball, they were going to take so much shit from all of you listening that you just don't get to have the game now. Oh, you know, is it too late to make a Dune? Give me the knife. No.
    98:52
    Especially if they're going to keep doing more movies. But you can't make on them being as successful. No, but if everyone loves the first and second part of the first quote unquote book, then you could just, it doesn't have to come out at the same time as the movie. I'll ask this. Is this going to be a top ten film in the last decade? If so, then yes.
    99:16
    You see, I still felt a drug at certain points. So, to me, this is not, Dune is not Lord of the Rings to me. It's, as a film, it's not. And Lord of the Rings took a lot of liberties with the books. Like, they changed up all sorts of stuff. But it's a really good set of films. Oh, yeah. It's one of the greatest of all time, yes. Yeah. So, in fact, Dune is more readable than Lord of the Rings is. Tolkien's writing style is not the easiest to consume. That's George's history. And in Dune, actually, the older Frank Herbert got, the more the books get so philosophical. Honestly, I think they became a little pretentious, maybe a lot pretentious. so it's tough to recommend everything but the concepts were still good and fun to explore I don't know what I'm saying aren't you a fan of Quentin Tarantino films? oh the Tarantino no I mean I didn't like Pulp Fiction the first time I saw it I had to rewatch it and then I appreciated it but I don't own Pulp Fiction I own Jackie Brown and I own Kill Bill those are the ones I own alright I think Dune could work, but I don't... It's not a screamer yet.
    100:35
    Maybe if we have a bear and bash toy instead of a worm, that would work. I don't know. I don't know if people will forgive if worms don't eat ball. I'll give you guys a little nugget here. It's not even behind the paywall. I can guarantee you we're going to see sandworms in a pinball machine within the next five years. Boom. How about that? Hell yes! That's all I'll say. Turning down this week, unfortunately, we're talking about cinema.
    100:58
    Meet Joe Black. Have you seen that movie? The Brad Pitt movie. No, I never watched it. Oh, wow. I'm lucky I remember he was in it. You almost owe it to yourself. I don't think I... Anthony Hopkins and Brad Pitt. I don't think I owe it. Oh, boy. It's so... It may be one of the worst films I've seen in my entire life. I've seen a lot of films. It is horrible. And it did not age well. That's why I'm turning it down this week. What? Look, why it's even being brought up right now. Yeah, why? We were scrolling through, man. Because of that writer's strike, there ain't shit to watch. And I was like, you know what? This is something I've never seen, but it has Anthony Hopkins in it. And for my wife, it's got Brad Pitt in it, a younger Brad Pitt, too. So, I mean, shit. I'm almost turned on by a younger Brad Pitt. So, let's watch it. I've never seen it. Oh, boy, it's bad. At one point, Brad Pitt, this is like quintessential early 2000s or late 90s Brad Pitt, or just acting in general, where it's so insensitive now. But he was seeing a woman of Jamaican heritage, I guess, in this hospital.
    102:16
    But he plays death, like as a human form, but death. Okay, I see what you mean. And he goes and talks to this woman because she's about to die. She's an elderly woman. And he starts talking to her in a Jamaican dialect. And it's just so, so bad. I'm like, why did they even allow this? It was horrible. It was really bad. It was so cringe. I had to turn it down. Okay. Well, let me ask you because I don't like to leave people on such a sour note. What is a bad movie that you love? Like, it's so bad, it's good. Like, you're like, I know this is terrible. And I see that you, in particular, there's like one that you laugh at because it's just so poorly made. Damn, I would have to think about it. What's one you're going to think? Oh, well, I mean, I have several I could say. Well, I would, maybe my favorite one to bring up is Blood Rain. The Uwe Boll movie. Do you know Uwe Boll? No. The director? Okay. Uwe Boll, I'm probably mispronouncing, probably Uwe Boll. U-W-E-B-O-L-L that's his name. He made a lot of video game adaptations and Blood Rain is I don't think I played it but it was a video game about this woman vampire she's got partial vampire but think Blade but a little bit different. So she goes around like tons of vampires but she herself is like part vampire or something. Anyway I don't know much about that. I can't remember in the video game I think she fights Nazis. I think it He's pushing World War II. The movie, the thing with Uwe Boll is he always got, like, all these major, major studio deals. Like, he'd get all sorts of that money. Like, you know, you film in Georgia, you get tax breaks and all that. He would get paid to do these things. Like, he knew where all the tax exploits were and everything. So he brings in big. So Blood Rain has Billy Zane in it. It has Ben Kingsley. Wow. Yeah, no. Meatloaf, the singer, he's in it.
    104:23
    It's got all sorts of people you'll recognize. People like Ben Kingsley who have won an Academy Award. And this is true for a lot of the movies he's done. But Blood Rain is so ridiculous.
    104:37
    The dialogue is bad. The action is like cutting to watching her do a somersault. yeah I mean it's like when she's supposed to be like a gymnast and we just get oh she really did it did her stunts of her stult just like a child would do I'm trying to think of a horribly bad movie that it's just if you were to especially because you've filmed things if you were to watch it you would see all just how horrible it is like how much of it is like this was one take and no one cared makes me feel better about how to do things but it's so bad like there's just dramatic shifts in tone that hit. And, but, one of the, there's a scene, everyone always talks about this scene, with that movie in particular. There is a scene where she has to infiltrate like this vampire brothel. Oh, God. There's just like all these like succubus-style vampires everywhere. This is a scene with Meatloaf. Owie, because he didn't want, he's like, they were in Romania. They did a bunch of the filming in Romania, probably because there were some tax credits or whatever.
    105:40
    It's the vampire brothel. And they're like, yeah, we're going to make this vampire, brothel. And he got in a lot of trouble because he was like, you know what? It costs too much with the Actors Guild rate to hire actors to play all the extras. So he just hired prostitutes.
    105:58
    They're that bad. That scene's in there. And it's just like the whole thing is... They actually made two other movies. Those are just so bad they're boring. The Blood Rain, the first Blood Rain, so bad it's good. But another one I won't go into detail on, but I'll recommend with Lou Diamond Phillips is the horror movie Bats.
    106:19
    Exactly. It sounds like Bats. Bats is just so bad, it's a good movie. I've never heard of that. Yeah, Bats. That's something from like 99. I've got a couple. Okay. I would say films like, I think it's a 90s comedy called The Pest, John Leguizamo in it. It is horrible. but it's so funny and great. I would say that. Things like Scary Movie 2. I think is one of the funniest films of all time. Is it really a bad movie though? Oh yes.
    106:52
    Scary Movie was okay because it was like a Naked Gun parody kind of type thing. But once you get into like the sequels of those things But it's got the tiny hand. Yes, which is why I like it. That was like top notch writing. You've got to take my new hand. Who's ready for a wing? Yours are the turkeys.
    107:12
    I know what you like. How about a leg? How about two? How about I take these two legs and shove them right up your ass, all the way to the knee. Quite relaxed. Scary Movie 2 is one of my favorite comedy films of all time. And I was going to make a joke and say anything in Night Shyamalan stuff. But I would say that The Happening, M. Night Shyamalan. Oh, now that's a good pick. I love The Happening. Signs is a good movie. Sixth Sense is a good movie. The Happening is stupid. It's sad. It's stupid. The acting's terrible. I love it. But I could see why someone would say it's so bad. It's good. I do admit I've watched The Happening multiple times.
    108:00
    It's bad. What? The Wind? What? Mark doing his most Marky Mark, Mark Wahlberg-ing. Yeah, Mark Wahlberg.
    108:13
    You're a three ninja? That was another bad movie back in the 80s, 90s. Three ninjas? All right. Oh, yeah. That one might just be so bad. It's bad. All right. Also trending down this week, GGM. because, look, we can't give so much. GTF's getting jealous here. And it wants to be acknowledged as well.
    108:39
    American Pit Bull ship, BBQ Challenge. Yeah, I think so. GTF, I've just seen on the marketplace, for some reason people may be like, well, I've got to sell my latest American Pit Bull to the news. I don't know. But GTF is just dropping even more so. Like an Ellie is coming in used in the low $8,000. And that's close to $3,000 from MSRP. That's a significant drop, which makes me sad because I still love that game. But, yeah, objectively, GTF is still tanking. It's still tanking. All right, that's good. You got a – All right. Trending up and down this week. That doesn't make sense. I don't know which way it's trending. It's like a roller coaster. It's trending steady.
    109:24
    But it's not steady. there's a lot of ups, a lot of downs. It's kind of like the controversy with that March Madness Insider Connected thing. A lot of people say, get over it, it's a fucking bug. A lot of people are saying, you give Eric Snow back, Australians.
    109:39
    Turn it up. I'm talking about you. You give him his virtual trophy. Turning it up and down this week is a little media piece that I did, and I don't even know why I did it, but it was just say no to bootleg pinball art. I did this on flipping out pinballs. It's kind of a throwaway media thing that oftentimes I don't get games in on trade flipping out pinball, and people will have horrendous mods that are broken and I'll throw away. But lately I'll see these fake bootleg art pieces, like this one in particular, was a Deadpool premium that someone looked like they took a picture of and just printed it on an old printer on a Translate material. It was real blotchy and grainy, and it was horrendous. So I took a picture of it before I burnt it to the ground and said, just say no to bootleg pinball art. I'm sick and tired of people making money off of other people's hard work. It's bullshit, and I'm here to make a stand. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
    110:41
    And it got a lot of discussion, a lot of discussion. Did you happen to see the discussion points? I did. Surprisingly so, right? I clicked on it because I viewed it as basically a throwaway promotional sort of image, though you weren't selling a particular product. But I saw the comment count, and I was like, what? Why are people talking about this? I knew where you were probably coming from with it. I was just like, what? Why is this even a discussion thing? To me, it's like, who cares? They'll print banners, and they'll be like, hey, I'll sell you this banner that I've done no work on, but it'll have the Stern Pinball logo on it. No. That's fire is the bootleg logo. Yeah. There's people who promote this stuff. Like, how are you going to promote illegal fake stuff? Whatever. I don't understand it, and I think it's pretty shit. But I was surprised. I thought it would be a post that you were like, yeah, stick it to the man. Or people would just not say anything because they're like, shit, I like buying these things. So I'm going to shut up, and I'm going to keep buying them. there were an equal part of human beings in this industry that were like, no, they would justify why it was okay to steal other people's work. And the arguments were so hollow and loose, they'd be like, well, since Stern doesn't sell them anymore, I should be able to buy stolen stuff. No, that's not how logic works at all. No, that's, nope. But I guess people will justify any way they can to make themselves feel better about purchasing something that is in fact stolen. Or am I being harsh? I was just so surprised that people were like, one guy was like, no, y'all buy what you want. Fuck these people. What? So it's okay. At least have the balls. Here's my point of view. At least have the balls to say, you know what? I know it's okay. I know it's not okay. I know it's theft, but I want it so bad that I'm still going to buy it. I would at least respect that. But this whole justification of lying to yourself and being like, well, look, you know, if Stern ain't going to sell them banners, I'm going to buy one. That makes it okay. It's like, no, it doesn't make it okay. I see why you want the banner. I see why you want this stuff. It still doesn't make it okay. Am I alone here, Dennis?
    113:10
    I just, I really don't care. Let's jump over to deal of the week. Deal of the week this week. Oh, no, Dennis. It's the original Alien by Highway. I still have to stop. Oh, my. This thing won't sell. You are, it's still too expensive. How? It's cheaper than all the other ones that sell it. It's $10,495, I think. I'll drop it to $10,000. $9,999. Buy, buy, buy. Please. At that point, I am technically losing money. Get this thing going. I don't want you to technically lose money. I want you to for real lose it. No, I did not. Lower. Drop it to $8,999. I'm going to be straight up honest with you all. I've got 10 grand in this thing. Sometimes you've got to sell things at a loss. I know. That's not business. Oh, 2023. Let me teach you about business, Zach. You should have found some Armenian tax credits. You didn't do it.
    114:04
    Just unload that thing and be done with it. Now I'm gooey gooey or whatever his name is. That's what happens when you trade in Off the wall shit I just have to explain it to people Like the trade in stuff They're like oh that's too expensive You're not giving me enough I'm like damn You account for shipping Everything that's shipped is damaged So I have to account for The damaged game that's going to come in And how to sell that damn As always people I'm just here to report the facts Numbers don't lie Neither do I I'm Pinball Market Trends Bootleg Edition Alright Dennis where can people catch you And again, reach out to me at CollectedGamersPodcast at gmail.com Or don't Yeah, absolutely Continue to leave me alone, I appreciate it Apologies again to anyone offended On my take on Barbecue Bonanza, I'm sorry They're gonna write in Follow, like, and subscribe To the social medias Join our club membership Patreon.com slash The Pinball Show Go check out straight down the middle videos Follow, like, and subscribe there And really, you really need to follow, like, and subscribe Instagram and Facebook for Flippin' Out Pinball Who happens to be the sponsor of this very show When I buy my pinball shit, I buy from Flippin' Out From Topper Shop, from TV, I've got it figured out Flippin' Out, Flippin' Out When I take a pinball, I think Flippin' Out Flippin' Out, Flippin' Out When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from Flippin' Out Product showcase this week. We'll give it to an Alien Ripley edition. I've got one extra one in the bundle that just came in. If you want it, jump on that now. I think I may have a scratch and dent one, too. Somebody's okay with a little dinger on a game. I can't sell it new because it's got a dinger, and I sure as hell can't ship it back to Italy. That's the tough part about selling overseas games, I found out. Oh, yeah. When they come damaged, you can't just ship them back to Stern. and smart people would. I mean, you could, but they'd be like, why are you sending me this alien? Yeah, as well. It'd be funny if people would be like, what do you want me to do with this? Let's submit it to FedEx for reimbursing. Then you've got this. Have you thought about sending it to CERN and then just like gaslighting them big time and just being like, you guys, this is what you sent me. That's right. And they're like, why did I get this? Figure it out. We have a lot of games in stock, ready to go. Free shipping on all brand new CERN games, too. Star Wars Premium in stock. Godzilla's, not Jaws yet, but Coleman pre-ordered that one. We've got an Elton John PE, I believe, CEs. We're taking orders still on that. Elvira Blood Red Kiss. We've got one of those. Venom Pros and Premiums. Hopefully, Topper's going to come out soon. James Bond Pro Premiums. You can get on the list for the Foo Fighters accessories, too. We may have some in our first batch. If not, second batch, of course. Jurassic Parks, GTFs, Hot Wheels, whatever you want. We've probably got it. Toppers. Iron Maiden Topper. Get yourself an Iron Maiden Topper, people. Shaker Motors. Living out with friends. Go check out Joe. He just did Pulp Fiction. I think he's going to do Pulp again this week. Unless he's at TPO. I don't know what he's going to do this week. TPN last week. We had some stuff, didn't we? We had one stuff. We had the Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast with Jake Danzig talking about Dukes of Hazzard. Very cool. Episode 20. Dennis, they've learned a lot this week. Anything else to teach them? You know, I don't know. I don't know if I can teach anyone anything else this episode. So, you know what? I think because we gave our thoughts on the Barry Otis Barbecue Challenge, I think maybe there needs to be something to sort of lift it up because we weren't the most enthused with what we saw. And this would be my interpretation. But I kind of wonder what the Nordman would say about the Barbecue Challenge. And I think he might have a different perspective. Yes. Listen, I... This is the Nord, Matt, and I need you to listen. I helped with this game. You can tell because there is a little bit of a plastic ramp. Meaning I was involved. There is so much to do in this. You don't understand. You merely adopted barbecue sauce, but I was born of it. Coated in it. Grill bumpers will get hotter as you cook the barbecue recipes. That's not normal for pinball.
    118:27
    That's all I have. Sauce to me. Sauce. I'll show you the difference between corn that is just out there in a bowl and corn that has grill marks and melted butter.
    118:41
    And always practice safe pinball and just say no to bootleg pinball art. Unless you, like, really love it, then I guess you can try to justify it online about why you're paying for stolen stuff. If that helps you sleep at night. I don't know. Just be a badass and say, yeah, it's fucking stolen. What's it to you? That's how we used to do it back in the 90s. That's it.
    119:11
    Wow. You can beep this for her. Which clearly didn't work the magic on that game. Can't keep that in. I mean, they put it in the outtakes. Okay.
    119:29
    All right.