Episode 393: Bonus Day with Steven Bowden

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·44m 3s·analyzed·Mar 1, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Stephen Bowden discusses recent tournament wins and upcoming events while sharing insights on competitive pinball strategy.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Stephen Bowden on Pinball Profile to celebrate Bonus Day (February 29th). They discuss Bowden's recent tournament wins (District 82 Stern Pro Circuit, Wisconsin State Championship), upcoming major events (North American Championship Series, Pin Masters, Pinberg's return after 5 years, Papa tournament revival in Chicago), and Bowden's expertise in competitive play, game design for American Pinball, and pinball commentary. The conversation covers tournament formats, classic vs. modern game strategy, plunge mechanics, and the importance of preparation and mindset in competitive pinball.

Key Claims

Stephen Bowden won the District 82 Stern Pro Circuit event despite being a 45-1 underdog on the first game according to betting odds
high confidence · Bowden states he checked the chat after the final and saw Dalton Ely's betting of channel points showing him as 45-1 underdog on first game
Wisconsin is Bowden's first state championship win across multiple attempts in different states
high confidence · Bowden explicitly states 'this was the first one where I actually was able to pick a nice set of games and ride it all the way to the end'
Pinberg is returning with 144 players and will expand to at least 300 next year
high confidence · Teolis announces '144 players' and Bowden confirms 'it's going to be at least 300 next year'
Papa tournament is being revived in September at Interium in Chicago with 72 players to finals plus 8 B Division
high confidence · Teolis announces 'Penny Epstein, Andy Bagwell announced a wonderful tribute tournament to Lyman F. Sheets. It is Papa returning' at Interium with '72 to the final'
Modern pinball games provide more recovery opportunities than classic games when plunging fails
high confidence · Bowden explains: 'modern games do give you a chance to recover' while classic games like Silver Ball Mania require specific plunges to light kickbacks and spinners
District 82 hosts approximately 100+ games in working condition throughout the tournament
high confidence · Bowden states 'there's like 100 and whatever games in perfectly working order that somehow stay in perfectly working order for the whole tournament'
Stephen Bowden is designing game rules for American Pinball
high confidence · Teolis states 'You're doing that. You're coming up with games rules for American Pinball'
Pin golf tournaments are more popular in Europe (particularly Germany) than in North America
medium confidence · Bowden states 'in Germany there were several pin golf tournaments. And I guess we just don't see it in North America'

Notable Quotes

“I was a 45-1 underdog on the first game, according to Dalton Ely's betting of channel points”
Stephen Bowden @ ~5:00 — Highlights the unexpected nature of Bowden's District 82 victory despite heavy betting against him
“Volley hates me and I don't appreciate volley that much either... that game is evil it knows things it knows you talk about it”
Stephen Bowden @ ~10:30 — Humorous commentary on the unpredictability of certain classic games and the psychological challenge they present
“Wisconsin is my first state championship win”
Stephen Bowden @ ~20:00 — Significant personal achievement after years of competitive play and near-misses at state championships
“State championships are tough because a lot of those people are people that don't travel. So you might not recognize some of the names, but they're local legends.”
Stephen Bowden @ ~22:30 — Insight into why state competitions are particularly challenging and why local knowledge matters
“If you plunge that middle lane on Kiss Classic... the ball might go up and down that middle lane a few times. And depending on how many times that is, you might have a huge scoring advantage before you even get a chance of touching the ball”
Stephen Bowden @ ~30:45 — Demonstrates the importance of plunge knowledge on classic games and how it can provide scoring advantages
“I try to make sure I make my booth mates sound good. If I can tell they're very up and energetic, I can bat back.”
Stephen Bowden @ ~58:30 — Reveals Bowden's approach to commentary collaboration and maintaining professional broadcast dynamics
“I want every ball to be the best ball ever. Because then we win. We get entertained.”
Stephen Bowden @ ~62:00 — Expresses Bowden's philosophy as a commentator: rooting for exciting play regardless of player advantage
“It's like oh, I only need, I got to get $50 million on Aerosmith... and you drain and it's $49,700,000”

Entities

Stephen BowdenpersonJeff Teolisperson District 82eventPinbergeventPapaeventPinball Profileorganization American PinballcompanyNorth American Championship Seriesevent

Signals

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event_signal: WIPP (Women's International Pinball Tournament) being held at Pinberg weekend with ticket sales starting March 5th
high · Teolis announces 'Whipped the tickets go on sale on march the 5th' with Delaware Pinball Collective and Neon Ranch Pinball as title sponsors
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competitive_signal: Pin golf format gaining attention in major tournaments; North American events adopting bracket head-to-head format for championship series
medium · Discussion of Pin Masters pin golf format and North American Championship Series bracket play; Bowden notes pin golf popularity in Europe but rarity in North America
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event_signal: Papa tournament (tribute to Lyman F. Sheets) being revived in September 2024 at Interium in Chicago
high · Teolis announces 'Penny Epstein, Andy Bagwell announced a wonderful tribute tournament to Lyman F. Sheets. It is Papa returning. And right there in Chicago for you at Endeterium'
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event_signal: Pinberg tournament returning after 5-year hiatus with 144 initial players and planned expansion to 300+ next year
high · Teolis announces 'Pinberg is back, 144 players' and confirms expansion plans; Bowden confirms '300 next year'
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personnel_signal: Stephen Bowden actively designing game rules for American Pinball manufacturer
high · Teolis states 'You're coming up with games rules for American Pinball' and plans to discuss 'what makes games easy, what makes them fun'

Transcript

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it's time now for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teoles you can find everything on pinballprofile.com we're on twitter we're on x instagram at pinball profile you can email pinballprofile at gmail.com we've got a great facebook group as well and if you'd like to show your support on Patreon, don't worry. It is not necessary. It's just a way of saying thanks. Keeps the show going. You can do that at patreon.com slash pinball profile. And thank you to so many great people, including Rodney C., William M., Tony V., Colin M., John L., and more. February 29th doesn't happen that often. Every four years, kind of a bonus day. So I thought we'd have a little fun with bonus. With fun with bonus, the man, the myth, the legend, he is Stephen Bowden, and he joins us now. Hey, Stephen, How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How are you doing, Jeff? You get bonus day. I want to talk to you more than every four years, but you have to be on this day. Yeah, I hope I don't have to wait another four years right before we get back on the show. No, no. If Josh Arp can get every February 2nd, I can easily squeeze you in more than that, too. Watched you a couple weekends ago at District 82. Winning that big event is certainly no small task. It was a Stern Pro Circuit event. Yeah, I tell you, that District 82 win against that final. I mean, I was certainly the underdog in that final. And how do I know this? Well, checking out the chat later, I was a 45-1 underdog on the first game, according to Dalton Ely's betting of channel points. Now, that started to turn around after the first game. But just the names that were in that final, I did not expect the result that happened on that report card. Let's just say that. I didn't see the final until after the fact, but I was watching earlier in kind of a different playoff match, or maybe it was just a group match, but I can't remember, but you were playing on volley against, so this would have been probably the classics tournament that was going on. You were playing volley against Luke Nahorniak. And sorry, Stephen, as much as I think you're one of the greatest, I put my money on Luke and Luke didn't disappoint. But I did pick you on the next game. It was that, what's the strikes game where there's the three Xs in the middle? Triple strike. No, I think it's triple strike. It was another strike. I know triple strike. It was a different game. There's three Xs in the middle. There's the left orbit to get it back up top, which is also triple strike but there's a set of uh three stand-ups in the middle or drop targets in the middle oh that's memory lane memory lane yeah memory lane that yeah that game where you want to try and freeze the x on so you can get the strike uh because if you freeze it when it's off then your strike is busted so you have to reset it so that that's a good strategy there to get as many of those strikes as you can because it's a really sneaky bonus game there if you can get a bunch of those and then double or triple bonus all of a sudden it turns a terrible ball into a great one but as far as volley yeah picking against me on volley is a wise decision volley hates me and i don't appreciate volley that much either i mean you can tell with i mean especially with five dollar volley the way i mean there's a reason why it's five dollar volley at district 82 because that game is evil it knows things it knows you talk about it it knows you talk bad about it so you have to go in with this with as much positivity as you can to just navigate the forest that is that game to try and find some points and then it sucker punches you too because you get a free plunge before you actually play and you're like oh i found the shot and then no no you forgot about how these rubbers will react and see you no in lanes for you up top exactly and this is the same exact plunge like you look at the meter you try to plunge it the exact same way okay i'm gonna do it the exact same way i did on the practice plunge and i'm gonna get a top lane and i'm gonna be off and running and you do the same thing and all of a sudden it skips over and gets nothing and Your ball is forfeit unless you can get one of those rollovers up top to light one of those target banks. Otherwise, you just might as well just keep going back up there until you get one. Because, yeah, you have to have something lit before you start the ball. Otherwise, you really haven't started. I mentioned earlier the state of Wisconsin has been good to you. You are the Wisconsin champ. You went to a place called Nerd Haven in Madison, Wisconsin, won the state championships on the third weekend in January. District 82, the Stern Pro Circuit event last week. and again, the big event coming up is the North American Championship Series and Pin Masters. So you've had a few trips to District 82 and I know the comfort certainly helps. You've maybe got a few notes on some plunges here and there and where the scoops are. They'll probably change a few things for Pin Masters and the North American Championships, but the comfort level, I would say for you, and this goes for any tournament, when you've been there once or twice before, a little more at ease? or is it the other way around where you're like, that game beat the hell out of me and, oh, God, I've got to play it now? No, no, no. District 82, it is a bit of a comfort zone there. I mean, even though the games will be moved around, as you said, and some conditions will be different, it is good to go in there with some sort of knowledge. I mean, it's better than nothing. I mean, if you're kind of around, you guess where the good plunge is, you're at least at a good start, as opposed to someone who doesn't know anything at all, might spend the first three out of five balls trying to find the plunge. Whereas if I can luck out and find out the first one, the second one, that gives you one whole ball of advantage. So that can help. But again, I mean, that could all go out the window of all of a sudden all the games get waxed down real good and the pitch is changed or whatever. But even so, having that little bit of extra knowledge just gives you a little bit of confidence. And especially when you're playing classic games, you want to go in with as much confidence as you can just to keep in good spirit. So in case you get beat down with a house ball real fast, you don't get yourself down. You come back and you try again. Are you implying it might be easier to survive on a strange game you've never played before on a modern versus a classics? Because you didn't make a note there about having that knowledge of the classics games, especially when it comes to things like plunges or maybe just shots themselves. Well, yeah, modern games do give you a chance to recover. there are more dependencies on classic games on certain plunges and hitting certain skill shots to light certain spinners to actually turn on the game for example just give me an example silver ball mania right i'm not particularly friendly with that game but if you can plunge the middle lane well now you have a ball save well you have a kickback right if you miss that first skill shot plunge and get one of the other two lanes which you probably will get well you're kind of vulnerable until you hit that center horseshoe so it's that moment of trepidation that gets taken off of you if you hit that initial plunge and if you can hit that on a classic game like silver ball mania it can give you just that little bit of advantage whereas on a modern game you know i don't really need that much that many notes on deadpool deadpool is deadpool okay like it's this is what's the note gonna be how easy it is to snick to play field x for that shot. I mean, really, that's it. But on a classic game, especially when you need to know those plunges or little weird things in the rules that can help you or lack of knowledge in certain things that will help you just get the game started, it's very important to learn on those classic games because very often the classic games will give you less of an opportunity to recover. Yeah, there's very few modern games where a bad plunge can really, really hurt you. I think of Kiss and Aerosmith and Rush, three games where if you full plunge and go through those pops, maybe you survive, maybe you don't. But a lot of them you can short plunge, maybe catch it on the right flipper. But the classic games, yeah, that's a good example you just gave with Silver Ball Mania. I think of even Strikes and Spares, the ballet game. If you don't hit that center lane and light your spinner, it's tough to do. It's tough to get back up there. It's tough to nudge into the middle lane. So that's a huge advantage if you can plunge that. especially on a game like that where the spinner is such a huge difference in scoring whether you hit the middle lane or not just another good comparison like Kiss Modern, right, we mentioned Kiss Modern Stern, if you plunge all the way around you might survive but you'll still be able to recover and still continue with your plan Kiss Classic you want to plunge that middle lane if you plunge that middle lane you might go not only would you get that lane, maybe you'll open up the gate on the right and before you even get a chance at the ball, the ball might even go up and down that middle lane a few times. And depending on how many times that is, you might have a huge scoring advantage before you even get a chance of touching the ball before the ball's even in danger. So if you know where that plunge is on Kiss Classic, that's a huge advantage. We're going to talk more about programming games and stuff because you're doing that. You're coming up with games rules for American Pinball. And I've got some questions to ask you about that and what makes games easy, what makes them fun. and certainly we won't answer all the questions today or solve all the world's problems, but we'll get some insight to someone who actually makes these rules. But back to competitions itself, the North American Championship Series. So you win Wisconsin. How many different states have you won in your career? I have won one, this one. Are you serious? I thought you've won like maybe New Jersey or Texas. Nope, I've come close. I've made top four or top eight or whatever, but nope. This was the first one where I actually was able to pick a nice set of games and ride it all the way to the end and be consistent enough to make it. The other times I usually get caught out by a game, like, see if I can remember, Centaur would get me. I know Centaur would get me in New Jersey where I'd try to alley pass and would go through the gate the wrong way. And, oh, well, that's it there. But, yeah, Wisconsin is my first state championship win. So if we think of Stephen Bowden, we think of how long you've been playing and for how many years and how competitive you've been and how many times you've been in the top 25 in the world, how many world championships you've gone to, how many events you've won. Here's another Stern Pro Circuit event you just won a couple weekends ago at District 82. And this is your first. I tell people this all the time. Winning a state or a province, it's not easy. I mean, I'm not saying there's luck that's involved or bad luck that's involved. It's just those are the best of the best. And why the states and provincials are tough, I find, is because a lot of those people are people that don't travel. So you might not recognize some of the names, but they're local legends. Maybe they know that arcade very well. And that is a huge advantage. They don't really showcase it on the world stage at different events, but they protect their home base. Exactly right. And one thing about the state championships, too, is that everybody in that is good. by virtue of them qualifying. I mean, they have shown their performance in that state. So even if you may not know their names because they may not travel around the world or the country or are on streams a lot everyone in there is a worthy opponent So yeah no state is really easy And certainly Wisconsin wasn i mean just the people who i had to play on the way of the final and even the people who i didn have to play on the way to the final who happened to get eliminated by someone else was just better that day you know so it can just fall in you can face certain people that you happen to get past and pick a good game and be able to have games you're comfortable with and and just make it to the end and sort of just like some golf tournaments, right? Yeah, everybody's good. It's just it's someone's day that day, and they win. There are different types of formats when it comes to tournaments and playoffs, and you really consider the North American Championship Series like a playoff from the get-go because it is a bracket format. So head-to-head. Some people like it, some don't. Some like the idea of I'm in a group of four and only the top two advance after three games. There's a little bit of safety net there. You can have a bit of a co-pilot, if you will, but you're on your own here. There are no co-pilots when it's a bracket head-to-head. Right. It's just you versus the person in front of you. Just try to beat that person as quickly as you can. But it's like double strategy involved. It's like, okay, which games are you going to pick? Which games you hope they pick your game? Then you can start on their game and sort of mess with the order of play in that way. But you don't want to get too caught up in the strategy that you mess with your own performance and lose concentration on winning this game in front of you. so it can be very strategic very it's a very concentrated form of play you always have to be on your game every game because there is no such thing as a safety net as you said there's no wasted games so you go through this rigmarole to play in the north american championship series that gets done maybe you do well maybe you don't but then you got to put that all aside because then you've got pin masters which we don't see a lot of pin golf it is really really popular in Europe, I noticed in Germany there were several pin golf tournaments. And I guess we just don't see it in North America. It's kind of a weird format. I find it fun. I just find the biggest difficulty about any kind of pin golf is the timing of it because one machine can hold people up or heaven forbid that machine goes down. It has to be repaired so that you can complete the course or else you've got to come up with some different rule set to compensate for that game being out. And then there's the factor of the game itself, the format. When we play pinball machines, we know we have three balls, or if we're playing an old machine, we have five balls. But we don't normally play pinball machines to try to get it all done on ball one. Sometimes we set things up for ball three, and that's not how you can do it in pin golf. You got to go for it. Yeah, in pin golf, you have one ball, this one, and then, oh, you messed that ball up, did you? okay you have this ball right here to get to get it done so that is a different form of stress is that you always have this one now as far as one good thing about the the tournament being at district 82 is because there's like 100 and whatever games in perfectly working order that somehow stay in perfectly working order for the whole tournament such a testament to you know what Eric and the crew do up there to make sure all the games are working. So, I mean, games may go down, but probably not for very long. So I don't think we have to worry much about that, but it's totally not chasing it, hopefully. But a three-ball strategy is totally, a three-ball strategy to win a game against a player versus a three-ball strategy to win a game against three other players versus a one-ball strategy to get everything right now is totally different. Okay. Now, that may be the key. Maybe the best pinball players don't have to change that strategy because they're always good enough to get it on one ball. And that's why you always see certain players get aces and twos and birdies and it doesn't matter. That's not me.

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Because I'll get snake bit by some classic game and have to recover or something and try not to fall down a hole and tumbling down, adding strokes for no reason. and then all of a sudden getting less than 1% away from the goal and just not getting there and costing you another stroke, that's going to really hurt because that's going to happen a lot over that qualification. You're going to see a lot of people be like, oh, I only need, I got to get $50 million on Aerosmith. And you play Aerosmith and play and play and sweet emotionist and multiball that and you wake up and you drain and it's $49,700,000. And it's like, oh, no, I have to plunge to get this one stroke that I could have saved. And every stroke is important, every single one in order to qualify. And especially in a playoffs where there's even more of a concentrated every stroke is important. It's going to be a busy month with those back-to-back events at District 82. And then you get a little bit of time off. And then you've got to head back to a former home of yours in Texas for the Texas Pinball Festival. So a big show on hand, and I'm sure American Pinball will have a wonderful presence there as well. It's probably nice for you to go back to Texas. Yes, I am very looking forward to going back to Texas. I know it's going to be a great time. Of course, I'm going for the circuit event tournament, absolutely. And, of course, to see some old friends that I haven't seen in a little bit, like since last year. That's going to be a really good event. I always like going down there and representing American Pinball and looking forward to the competition there. Absolutely. We'll watch the stream on Wormhole Pinball, and I'll hear lots of people talk about all the things that they saw at Texas Pinball Festival. So best of luck to those going for sure. You mentioned the Stern Pro Circuit a few times. I think you probably look on the calendar, okay, where are the events? What are feasible? Some are, some aren't this year. Not part of the Stern Pro Circuit, but a couple of majors have returned, and big, big news. First of all, Pinberg is back, 144 players. you got in, Stephen. You passed round zero, as you like to say. Right. I somehow passed round zero, which was, and actually, there wasn't actually a round negative one on this one because there was the super supporter round where 10 people got those super supporter tickets in, which probably went in less than half a second. You tried, didn't you? I tried. Of course I tried. Of course I tried it out. Why not? Yeah. That's a nice perk where you can like guarantee to get a backdoor and to purchase it in the future it's a nice little offer there it's nice support too for pinberg yeah absolutely i know some people are like oh only 144 people and we've heard about some of the growth that doug polka and others have talked about yeah it's 144 this year but they're trying to sustain it and make it possible to go bigger and bigger every year it'll be at least 300 next year so it makes sense to go for that super supporter ticket and uh well you didn't get in that one but at least you got in and it's good to have you there. Yeah, at least I did get in. And exactly, 144 for now. And so, I mean, obviously the number's going to increase. I'm glad to hear that it is going to be at least 300 next year. And maybe they'll offer some more super supporter tickets next time. Who knows? Maybe that'll work. I mean, just throwing it out there. I'm sure that there are some people who would like to support the efforts of Pemberg with an offer like that. It sounds good to me. But I am glad to be able to Be privileged enough to go to This Pemburg and that's going to be really fun And also the accompanying event Also the Bash at the Berg is also There too so That used to be the Intergalactic That was a replay effects It's the Bash at the Berg so there's another event as well Along with Pemburg so if you're not in Pemburg There is another one there Along with the WIPP tournament is there too Women's International Pinball Tournament Is also there so So it's not just Pinburg that's going to be there at that event, so I'm looking forward to that. And so as far as the rest of the circuit, yes, I do keep an eye on that circuit event calendar, and I may or may not have a copy of it in front of me that I'm looking at to check out some of the other events that I may have an opportunity to go to as I try to go to as many of them as I can. The Bash at the Berg, sponsored by Ace Goge in California. Ace Goge, Korean BBQ, and Pinball. the bash the bird yeah replacing intergalactic but kind of different in a way intergalactic was a limited tournament this one's more of a kind of a pump and dump so you're going to have opportunities to play and play and play did not just show up once and then and then that's it and that would include more than 144 people certainly the 144 there can play but anybody can play in that so that could wind up being a an actual bigger tournament and then whip the tickets go on sale on march the 5th thanks to uh the title sponsors that would be delaware pinball collective and Neon Ranch Pinball for making Whipped possible. So, yeah, lots going on there for sure at Pinberg weekend at the Resonine. So good way to see that coming back. It's been five long years. And to all the people involved, thank you very much for the support. But then we also got this announcement. Penny Epstein, Andy Bagwell announced a wonderful tribute tournament to Lyman F. Sheets. It is Papa returning. And right there in Chicago for you at Endeterium. It's like so lovely to describe Interium. Once I saw it, I was like, oh wait, it's Interium? Wait, I don't have to drive or fly to Papa this time. It's literally right down the road. I can qualify and then I can actually hang out and go home and go back and forth. That's nice. But, yes, I am very happy to see that Papa is back. And the fact that it's going to be at Interium, which is a great environment for pinball there, the fact that we're probably going to have a big part of that entertainment center reserved for Papa is going to be a great place to play there. And they're taking 72 to the final. So I believe that's the number. I think it's top 72 plus eight go to B Division. so it's really incentive to qualify as much as you can to get to the top spot because of how you qualify the more you win the more you don't have to play so that's going to be and no you don't have to play until as far as opening rounds to make it into the final but uh yeah this i'm very glad to hear that you know what has been what has been happening with papa and with interium and i'm looking forward to that as well i've only been to interium once i was there for the stern Pro Circuit Finals last year in October. My goodness, did I love it. And I said, not knowing Papa was coming, I said to Andy, my goodness, you must run a bunch of events here because this place is great. The space right there inside the mall, so there's lots of food, lots of parking, all kinds of good stuff. Colonel's Popcorn. Yeah, I'll be there if you're looking for me. I have a monthly every month so that I can get over 80 to 100 people every month there, and it's great. Well if anyone looking for a franchise to open up a Whataburger there before September I mean you want the perfect storm My goodness Well I won be at Texas I hope you have a Whataburger for me But again Papa congratulations Looking forward to that in September And there is no cap to that You want to go you can go Sign up to that Again, lots of the information is on ifpapinball.com. Absolutely. Make sure you sign up early, too, because I think if you sign up now, you get three free entries now. It says two on there. Do it today. Do it right now. As soon as you hear this, just go do it. Yep. Just before you forget. You don't want to forget and then all of a sudden be like, oh, I forgot to rush it. No, just as soon as you get this. Pause the podcast. Literally now. Go to LFS.Papa.org. Do that now. Then you can come back and continue. I know you probably have a great chance to being in the finals, but some way, somehow, we'll see you in the finals or maybe hear you in the finals because you are one of the go-to people at every event for, hey, Stephen, if you're not in the finals, do you want to commentate? And we are the ones who benefit because by far one of the best ever, Stephen. When you've got a nice, friendly voice, you explain the games, you don't go too deep to lose people, you don't make it too basic to tune out other people, you find the nice balance, and you remember that there are other broadcasters in the booth with you, you pay attention to the players, you don't have favorites. It's not an easy skill to learn, and for whatever reason, experience, passion, intelligence, all those and above, you seem to have it when it comes to commentating. and I appreciate everyone who gives me the privilege to do commentary in their finals it is the best seat in the house if you're not playing especially if you have a setup where some people have like telestrator which I love the telestrator is the greatest thing because it allows you to do things like predictive commentary and things like that so yes as far as like learning it yeah I just sort of learned on the fly as I was you know as I'm in the booth I try to make sure I make my booth mates sound good. If I can tell they're very up and energetic, I can bat back. If they're batting back, I can come forward. Try not to interrupt, but also try to be exciting. Try to do your interstitials. Where are we? Who are we? Why are we doing this? How much is it for? Why is pinball fun? Get into the basics of the game. What are the two or three basic points that I can point to that people can always look at. Because if you look at a pinball game with someone who doesn't understand what pinball is, it looks just like a menagerie of everything because all the art is just all over the place. So it can look like a big nothing until you point something out where here's where the ball is heading and why. And here's where this player might do this, that, and the other thing. And so you do the whole trick where you try to, you don't say one thing they might do, you say three things. and then they pick one of them and then you look smart, they look smart everyone looks smart and so meanwhile it's just sort of like a little magic trick you kind of know what's going on and so you can do predictive commentary in that way and sort of take risks and do commentary a little bit ahead of the timeline and take some risks and then go back to the timeline of live and keep it going that way but yeah I'm always rooting for the current player at the game to have the best ball in the history of the world you know because I want every ball to be the best ball ever. Because then we win. We get entertained. We get to see what to do and how the game blows up. Yeah, I agree. Right, yeah. I want to see this person beat the whole game in the submission.

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And then when the next person, because I want to see that person pass the other person because it will be the greatest comeback ever. Right? I mean, it was like, what was the match on? Daniele and Johannes. Yeah, that's the greatest match. It's like it's the greatest match ever played. I mean, we almost had the greatest match ever played at Funhouse at District 82. Like the Jason Zahler. You had Zahler, Davidson, Milonowski, and Werdrick on Funhouse. Go back to that stream on Fox Cities, and you watch that Funhouse game, and you see that Raymond Davidson has $45 million, and I'm not in commentary. I'm sort of standing to the right. I'm sort of tending to the camera's left of you I'm over there because I'm talking with Jason Because we're Jersey boys you know whatever I'm talking with Zahler and we're talking about it And we see that Raymond Davidson has 45 million In Funhaus and he looks quite safe And Spoiler he's not 90 million And Jason Is maxing out the jackpot On Funhaus on a live game. This is not pinball effects. This is not pinball arcade where you know the shot is. This is a live game to see someone max out the million plus. I mean, it's amazing when you get to see moments like that and when you're in the booth. I want to try to convey that excitement because it's real excitement. I'm like, I just love competitive pinball and I want to see everybody do well because it's exciting to see. It is something to see, especially when two titans like Raymond and Jason Zoller go at it. And it's fun to watch, and I'm sure that will be watched several times. We mentioned Daniele Acari and Johannes Ostemeyer, the finals of IFPA 16 captured on JDL pinball. And that was in Italy, and just the ridiculous comeback. And that's it. Like you say, you want to see great moments in pinball. and sometimes you just step aside and let the play take note. I don't know what the best advice for commentators are. Certainly listen to one another. Don't talk over one another. You made a good point. I like the three choices thing you just said because it's kind of, I don't know, it kind of makes my skin crawl a little bit when I see a commentator second guess somebody's decision because, first of all, they're there and you're sitting in the booth. So they're doing something right. And also, too, maybe they have a strategy you haven't thought of yet. Who knows? Right. So that's what you want to find out. So, I mean, the player sitting at the game is basically right because they're there and you're not. Okay, so just go in there. And they're also good enough to be there. So they know what they're doing. And so you can have fun with that. I mean, I tend to sometimes, when I get brave enough to do predictive commentary, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of like, okay, what would I do here? Can I sort of feel what the player is kind of doing and get as much empathy as possible with the person standing there? And that helps. But with me, a lot of this commentary stuff, I just learned as I was doing it. I just wanted to make sure that I help my commentator team, whoever's with me, have their best output. Because that means we all look good. So whatever that may be. And so that may be figuring it out as I go along, trying to find someone's cadence, trying to find places where they stop talking, when they start again, what is their pattern. And all these things I'm learning on the fly that I wasn't realizing I was doing that until after I go and sort of analyze myself in the future. You know, so all in all, I'm really glad that one day, I don't know how long ago it was now, but one day I was asked to go into a Papa commentary booth on one final. So back when it was at the warehouse and little did I know that I was a little bit good at this thing. I didn't know. And I guess it's just being excited about it helps. but really if you want to do commentary do it try it i bet you're better than you think you are yeah and don't be afraid to go back and watch too just to kind of really critique yourself and just oh next time maybe i wouldn't do that or uh you know make notes of oh yeah that worked there and stuff and uh yeah i mean it's no different than i guess me being in radio you know they do air checks you you go back and you listen and you find out oh i'm saying the word obviously every sentence or a lot of pauses here and there or I've cut off my partner. You find these things out by really just critiquing yourself in a way and it makes you better for sure. Well, you're doing something a little different. We've seen you in finals. We've seen you play on stream. We've seen you talk in finals as a commentator. You're doing both now on Wednesday nights with American Pinball. You've got this new stream. That's kind of fun for you. Yeah, this is really an effort I've been trying to start up for a while and then just just to try to get us more out there more more transparent more out in the community more just playing out there so that we we are i've seen other people's streams and i was just basically like well i want to stream i mean you know so so i just started getting the equipment and hooking it up and try and and see what we can do here i just got another hd camera so i was not happy with the output of the playfield cam so i got another h i got another hd camera i'm going to try soon to see how that looks and really just to get us out there. I mean, we have plans for future streams, and I'm happy to see that it's really starting to come along, and people are going in chat, people are communicating, and we get to answer questions, and we get to talk and play and have some fun, and I'm glad to have the guests on that we've had, and also show some of the games that we have, especially Houdini, you know, make sure that you can hit both lock shots, if you can backhand those shots, look how much easier the game is. This is the toughest game ever, unless you can backhand the lock shot so make sure it's balanced right you know things things like that that are really helping to get to get our games out there and also just to show us having fun and playing it and um yeah just you know just hanging out playing pinball and oh it just happens to be american pinball games out there so but that that makes me happy so i'm glad that that has started and that we have the equipment to continue doing it another nice thing about the stream on wednesdays we get to see, oh, hey, look, Amtron's got new boards, and here's some new staff members. So that's also a nice feature, and it's nice to be able to present that on the streams on Twitch. It was very good to be able to see the usage of the new boards, and also that we were able to welcome new staff members into the fold, including Maurice, and then we have Lloyd the Great, and we have Ron from sales, and including guests. We had Ray and Benji from interiums. They always find a good time to play with us at American Pinball on the stream. And just another reason why I'm glad that we've been able to start this effort with the live streaming that's been happening at our place. Yeah, the American Pinball streams on Wednesday nights, lots of fun. We saw Hot Wheels, we saw Legends of All Hollow, we saw Houdini, Oktoberfest, and I'm sure we're going to see many more games still to come. But you are there at American Pinball as a rules designer. So a lot of things have been made recently. Nudge Magazine made a point to saying are new games modern games becoming more easy They playing a lot longer And I been kind of banging that drum for a little while but I understand why new games are like that You know they're going into homes probably even more so than they are arcades. But you don't want a game to be too tough where, first of all, if it's too tough, why would I buy this game? I want to have some fun. Oh, I can make that shot. It makes me feel good. And oh, I got a new multi-ball. Yeah, Maybe it's not worth a lot of points, but I had that kind of fun experience. So I get that. But the rules then need to be a little deeper so that it's just not too boring. Yeah, that's great. I've got some fun things happening, but now I want to blow it up. So you've got to make some of the tougher shots. What is it like for you, Stephen? First of all, do you agree with that maybe they are a little easier? And what is that sweet spot? What's the balance for you as someone who designs rules? Well, let me tell you, it is a very delicate dance. dance is a very delicate balance to try to balance out complexity versus understanding versus i guess the best way the easiest way to teach a player something versus okay this is a game that's going into a home probably and it costs x amount of dollars so it needs to be such and such a deep so it doesn't get i don't know whether the word is boring or played out or whatever, if that can happen. I mean, I can play a simple game all day, but that's just me. But it is a delicate balance to try to play that against each other. You want rules to be deep enough to be interesting, but not complicated enough where you don't understand what the heck is going on. So it's very tough to balance that out. I mean, I like to be able to tell the player exactly all the points they got and why, so that they can do it again and make it as easy as possible for the player to recreate that. Or, dare I say, as easy as possible for the player to explain how they got it. So that way I know they were able to learn it. So it's very important to still be able to teach the player how to play. And it's even better if you can do it without them looking at an instruction card. Because people generally don't read that. They just go right into it. Because, you know, we're not here to read. We're here to play, right? I mean, what do you do when you're at an expo and you see a new game? What are you going to do? Are you going to walk up to it? Are you going to read anything? No. You're going to plunge it, and you're going to see what happens. You mean you don't print off the wiki sheets and all that? No. No, I guess you're right. Yeah, good point. No. Well, most people don't. I mean, I don't. I mean, I was going to say I do, but no, actually, I don't either. Sometimes I'll purposely, like, avoid a stream of a new game so that my first experience can be at the game so that I can see what does the game teach me on its own? Like right here in this arena that I'm in front of, how much does the game help me play it? Does it care that I'm in front of it? Does it point to the things I need to shoot? Does it use colors in a way that are easier for me to understand? Does it use light patterns and things like that that will help me, explain to me which are the more important shots, which is the most important shot, which shot's okay but not really that important. all certain subtle things you can do to help the player play better and hopefully learn it organically and if they want to get into the minutiae of it sure they can go into the wiki or the tilt forums or you know the streams and and and really break it down or some video reviews like that after the fact and then they go back into it and then really get into it but as far as that first experience i really like it when i go i can go up to a new game don't look at the card and let's see what happens since you only get one chance to do that right you only get one chance to have the first game and i feel that it's important that rule that rules are able to teach you what to do in the simplest way as possible but there is a balance between complexity and understanding you know if you can have a game that has rules that are continue to be complex but yet it's still simple to learn then you've hit the sweet spot somehow yeah it's nice when the lights on the playfield tell you where to go and what's lit and what's locks. And if you trap up, maybe there's some information there on the display. Maybe call outs are giving you some of that information. It certainly helps you because it is frustrating when you really have no idea what's going on and what to do. I mean, and also there's that perfect balance too, as someone who designs rules to be able to go, okay, I got to make sure we're using the entire play field because if it's just really three important shots uh we're leaving a lot there on the table right you have to you have to make sure everything is as balanced as possible across the whole play field using both flippers or if you have more than two flippers using all flippers have as many opportunities as you can and what i like to see is if a rule system offers multiple optimal path to where you really have to think about what you want to do but you're not really concentrating on thinking about like you're thinking about on the fly you're still having fun you know and you're not really analyzing until maybe after the fact when you're trying to really go on that research and really figure out what the best possible way is but uh if you're at the game and i can see you have to make a decision and you have to actually like step back and go what is the optimal path, then that's good. If a game comes out and someone asks me, hey, Steve, what will you do here? And I say, well, if I'm able to say, well, if there is a best path, then I have a problem. I meaning me, the rules maker. If there is a best path, then I have a problem that I have to look at because I hope that there isn't. I hope that each of the paths are maybe not equally worthy because that's really like really that would be really perfect and no one's perfect. But each path has as much worth that you can use all of them to always come back from any deficit. All of them have paths to fun and profit. So that's part of the balance, too. I mean, I do not want to have just one path to success because that's we've got video games for that. Yeah, if you notice that on streams or in competitions, you know, you as the rules designer can go back into code and, okay, we're going to need to strengthen something, weaken something here, score balancing. There are options to make that certainly not permanent. It's not like the old Gottlieb days. It went out and the rules were done with bugs and all, and sorry, there are no fixes. Those days are long done. You have easy ways to update the code, and you've been doing that with some of the games too. I love that. You know, whenever there's an update for a code, it's always a good thing because maybe a bug has been fixed or maybe some scoring or maybe you've added some hurry-ups or this and that. And you guys are always kind of on that. I like that. Yeah, exactly. Especially for, like, just an example, Legends of Valhalla updates we've had on that game to do some balancing, add some features, do some things behind the scenes that certain achievements count towards certain other multivolves, count certain other points and things like that, which really are appreciated by tournament players and others who really know how things should link to other things. 45 seconds of double scoring. Oh, I noticed. Yeah, that and the fact that you can use that in combination with, oh, how do I make war on land worth more? Oh, just do this and this first, and now it's worth a lot. But if you do it early, it's not worth a lot. So what are you going to do with that? Are you going to hold off on the first one until later? Maybe you want to put a few more legend battles under your belt first, and maybe you want to get some more raiders first. More raiders, then raid multiballs worth more, and then regular multiballs worth more, because it makes sense, because the more raiders you have, the more pillaging you're doing. So all those little tweaks and things that really help take a game that is out and add a little bit more strategy to it. It's a fine balancing act. I'd love to see some of your flowcharts and how you're doing it, and I know you're working on a new game right now, and we'll hopefully look forward to seeing that soon. And I'm not telling tales out of school, because David Fix was on this program and said the goal was to be spring and fingers crossed, hopefully, for Texas Pinball Festival. So that means I'm taking you away from something to do that. But thank you for doing this program.