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Ep 63: Road Tripping with Colin MacAlpine

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 19m·analyzed·Jul 10, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Pinberg champ Colin MacAlpine discusses competitive pinball, TPF tournaments, and his cross-country collector road trip.

Summary

Colin MacAlpine, a competitive pinball player and Pinberg 2017 champion, discusses his path into competitive pinball starting in 2011 at a Tron launch party tournament, his involvement organizing Texas Pinball Festival tournaments, and his recent road trip visiting pinball collectors in Utah. He emphasizes the importance of inclusive tournament design across skill levels, explains TPF's role as a world-class show and industry event, and shares insights on pinball rules design, nudging techniques, and the collector community.

Key Claims

  • Colin MacAlpine won the Pinberg championship in 2017

    high confidence · Colin confirms: 'Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, quite a few less Pinberg championships than one of your first guests ever in Keith Elwin. So I at least have my one.'

  • Colin's first competitive pinball tournament was a Stern Tron launch party tournament on June 10, 2011, which he won

    high confidence · Colin states: 'It even says – I looked it up just for you. June 10, 2011, Stern Launch Party, number one.' This represents his entry into tournament pinball.

  • Colin is a tournament director for the Texas Pinball Festival tournaments

    high confidence · Colin confirms: 'Yeah, correct. I'm one of the tournament directors for the TPS tournaments.'

  • You cannot learn nudging techniques effectively by watching video; you must play in person with other people

    high confidence · Colin states: 'In my opinion, you cannot learn effectively how to nudge the machine if you're just watching video. Not going to happen. You can't learn nudging techniques until you play in person, watching somebody physically move the machine and then trying it yourself.'

  • Texas Pinball Festival tournaments were already selling out due to limited entries based on machine bank capacity before the pandemic

    high confidence · Colin explains: 'we were already selling out the tournament. It's a capped number of player event because of the design of the format... So we already were selling that out, not as quickly as something like Pinburg, but still selling it relatively quickly.'

  • TPF was canceled two weeks before the 2020 event, and nearly all registered players (out of ~160) agreed to roll their entry fees forward to 2022

    high confidence · Colin describes: 'when we had to cancel TPF for 2020, two weeks prior to the event taking place... I think maybe out of 160 players, I think there were less than five that didn't want to have their event passes carry over.'

  • Colin believes interaction factors between rules are key to good modern pinball rule design

    high confidence · Colin explains his design philosophy: 'really one of the key things that I think with pinball rules in modern pinball machines is interaction factors. And so coming up with those cool ways for the rules to interact with each other, I think, is what really makes a good modern pinball rule set.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm going to do this. Didn't start until 10 years ago. 2011, I don't remember the exact date... It was at a Tron launch tournament.”

    Colin MacAlpine @ early in discussion — Marks the moment Colin entered competitive pinball, establishing his 10-year timeline in the competitive scene

  • “You can't learn nudging techniques until you play in person, watching somebody physically move the machine and then trying it yourself.”

    Colin MacAlpine @ mid-discussion — Key insight on pinball skill development that contrasts video learning with in-person mentorship

  • “I'm a pinball player. I'm a pinball player that likes to compete in tournaments. We still all play pinball.”

    Colin MacAlpine @ mid-discussion — Colin's philosophy on the universal nature of pinball play across competitive and casual players

  • “We're all competing. It's just a matter of how you're doing it.”

    Colin MacAlpine @ mid-discussion — Philosophical statement unifying competitive and casual play as part of the same competitive spirit

  • “I wanted to have the tournaments be at a world-class level for the tournaments... I wanted those tournaments to evolve and be at the same level as what the show is at.”

    Colin MacAlpine @ late discussion — Articulates Colin's vision for elevating TPF tournaments to match the quality of the show itself

  • “imagining the outlanes as two extra flippers”

    Colin MacAlpine @ near end — Pedagogical technique for teaching nudging that helped the host improve his pinball skills

  • “it was one of the most stressful days of our life... my wife was like super nervous”

    Host (Scott Larson) @ guest visit section — Describes the initial caution about hosting Colin, contrasted with ultimate approval for future visits

  • “You have fully passed the test... you can actually come and stay over next time you're here.”

Entities

Colin MacAlpinepersonScott LarsonpersonJosh SharppersonKeith ElwinpersonEd VanderveenpersonKim Vander VeenpersonPaul McKinneypersonTony MurphypersonZach and Nicole Miniperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Colin MacAlpine provides in-person tutoring on pinball skills, rules knowledge, and nudging techniques during his road trip visits. This represents active knowledge transfer within the competitive player community.

    high · Colin gave tutorials while playing at Josh Sharp's house, teaching about Alien Invasion mode in Simpsons Pinball Party and the 'outlanes as extra flippers' nudging concept that elevated Josh's play

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival is re-launching after two-year COVID hiatus. Players are eager to return to competitive play. TPF maintains a structured, capped format that prevents overcrowding while maintaining quality.

    high · Colin states TPF returns in March 2022 after losing 2020 and 2021; nearly all registered players from 2020 rolled entries forward to 2022; Colin expects high demand and mentions other events scheduling in August when IFPA resumes sanctioning

  • $

    market_signal: Classic pinball machines have appreciated dramatically in price relative to new machines. Supply is extremely limited due to no new production, and quality examples command premium prices. Restoration/reproduction (CPR playfunds, repaints) is becoming standard for collectors.

    high · Colin: 'the price of classics has gone up far, far more than the price of new in box... if you want really – if you want like Scott Larson level of quality, then you're talking about a really, really low amount of supply... Then you're talking about repros and having to repaint, restencil the cabinet and put a new hard top on it or just a complete new CPR playfield, CPR back glass'

  • ?

    product_concern: Pinball machines in casual locations (bars, arcades, Chuck E. Cheese) are often in poor condition with non-functional flippers, missing rubber, damaged playfields, and broken switches. This creates a poor player experience.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.238

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 63 with me my co-captain as always scott larson and scott let's uh let's kick off the sponsors really quick before we get to our guest for the day okay uh so the main sponsor of the show is flipping out pinball if you want to pick up that new or used pinball machine or if you want to uh be a trader and buy a raw thrills machine uh you can certainly contact zach and nicole mini they they will find anything that you need to decorate your game room and they're always easy to work with uh certainly and uh i i've had good luck with them uh i i bought like five machines with them josh how many you do got uh i've bought three from them yeah so they've always been really good i've also i'm also a a mod fan and a topper fan i'm an unabashed topper fan so i buy toppers for all my games and so yes i am that guy so of course also want to give a shout out to uh bradlet frames again if you have that trans light that is collecting dust and you want to display it in your game room go ahead and hook up brad uh josh and i talk to brad regularly and he's just a great guy it's a it's a relatively inexpensive way of displaying that i have a monster bash uh remake from brian allen in my frame and it's a lot of fun to change all the colors in the background so yes all right so uh we have a special very special this is like a very special different strokes episode um we have one of the Pinberg champions on the line with us. In case you haven't heard of him, he's Colin McAlpine. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules in the game and he can play it one-handed while instructing you on the game, which is pretty impressive. Wasn't he also texting, too, while he was taking your high score? Well, he was, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that. So, all right, and I believe it was Pinberg 2017. Is that correct, Colin? Did I get that right? Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, quite a few less Pinberg championships than one of your first guests ever in Keith Elwin. So I at least have my one. Okay, Colin, how many pinball machines have you designed? I mean, come on. This is a race between you and Keith Elwin, so we need to find out.
2:35
Yeah. No, thankfully that's a zero. I am not a pinball designer. Although I do – it would be interesting at some point to do like consulting or something like that on rules. I think I have a pretty – like you mentioned, I kind of geek out on that type of stuff and have an appreciation for balancing that type of thing and coming up with – really one of the key things that I think with pinball rules in modern pinball machines is interaction factors. And so coming up with those cool ways for the rules to interact with each other, I think, is what really makes a good modern pinball rule set. And Keith does a phenomenal job of that.

  • Classics prices have increased far more dramatically than new-in-box pinball machine prices

    high confidence · Colin states: 'I'm thankful that I got my classics when I did because, like you mentioned, the price of pinball, on all pinball, has gone up. But especially from a percentage perspective, the price of classics has gone up far, far more than the price of new in box.'

  • A friend named Tony Murphy in Minnesota ordered both a CPR Mermaid Edition and Halloween remake

    high confidence · Host mentions: 'my friend Tony Murphy. He's up in the Minnesota area... he ordered the mermaid... he ordered a Halloween also.'

  • Texas Pinball Festival is second only to Chicago Expo in terms of industry-level involvement, and may have eclipsed Expo in some areas

    medium confidence · Colin argues: 'I would say second only from an industry level involvement to something like Expo... But I think just be the proximity of Expo and the history of Expo that it still remains the premier industry show... TPF from an overall getting everything and fun factor from the event itself... I think it's in some ways eclipsed what Expo does in some areas.'

    • Host (Scott Larson) @ guest visit section — Scott formally welcomes Colin as a trusted guest for future visits

    Brian Allenperson
    Brad (Bradlet Frames)person
    Martin Robbinsperson
    LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Pinbergevent
    ReplayFXevent
    Chicago Expoevent
    IFPAorganization
    District 82organization
    Flipping Out Pinballorganization
    Stern Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Stern Trongame
    Deadpoolgame
    Simpsons Pinball Partygame

    high · Colin and host describe encounters with machines missing flipper rubber, pre-flipped flippers, broken switches, damaged inserts, and non-functional components at locations like Nickel Mania and Chuck E. Cheese

  • ?

    operational_signal: Tournament directors must carefully plan capacity based on machine bank size, number of entries, and time per entry. Larger events require 6+ months of advance planning. Colin uses data-driven logistics for all TPF tournaments.

    high · Colin explains: 'you have to put forth and do the planning and things like that... doing that, you do it for a living... So doing that, you have it set up as a limited event... we start planning for TPF, you know, within a couple months of the other one wrapping up'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinball tournaments are expanding to new venues. Colin mentioned visiting a new location in Wisconsin (District 82) and plans to return for their Super Series tournament with six events over three-four days.

    medium · Colin states: 'I even flew up to Wisconsin for one of the tournaments at District 82. I did a relatively new location there and made some good new friends up there. I plan on going up there again in October for their Super Series, where they're doing six tournaments over the course of four days or three days.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Colin emphasizes the importance of multi-division tournaments (A, B, Novice, Social) that cater to all skill levels. This inclusive design was pioneered by Pinberg and is now standard at events he organizes. He believes all pinball players are competing, just in different formats.

    high · Colin: 'one of the best things about well-run competitive events is when they are running it in such a way that it caters to the broad spectrum of skill levels... that's why you saw tournaments like Pinburg become so popular... I try to emphasize at the events that I run by having other divisions, B divisions or novice divisions'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Pinberg has ceased operations or significantly downsized. Texas Pinball Festival is filling the vacuum as a major national tournament event, now second only to Chicago Expo in industry involvement. However, TPF cannot replace Pinberg's massive tournament capacity due to logistical constraints.

    high · Colin: 'Replay and Pinburg are gone... I was never trying to make the TPF tournaments pinburg or replay-like... TPF can't do that because we don't have a standing collection... TPF is first and foremost a pinball show... second only from an industry level involvement to something like Expo'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Elite competitive players and collectors travel across country for tournaments and to visit other collectors' games. Colin's road trip visiting Utah collectors demonstrates the tight-knit, hospitality-focused collector community.

    high · Colin describes road trip to Utah where he visited Josh Sharp and Scott Larson, played multiple games, and was invited to stay at their homes. He also plans to visit Minnesota collector Tony Murphy to play the new CPR Mermaid Edition.

  • ?

    content_signal: Pinball podcasts and content creators are active and well-received within the community. LoserKid Pinball Podcast features in-depth discussions with notable players and organizers, indicating growing interest in long-form pinball media.

    medium · LoserKid Pinball Podcast episode featuring Colin MacAlpine; podcast includes sponsors (Flipping Out Pinball, Bradlet Frames) and detailed discussions of competitive pinball, tournament organization, and collector culture

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: IFPA (International Federation of Pinball Athletes) resumed sanctioning tournaments in August after COVID hiatus. This regulatory change enables the re-launch of the competitive tournament circuit.

    medium · Colin mentions: 'when the IFPA is sanctioning events again' for August resumption, indicating formal sanctioning was paused during COVID and has now resumed

    • 3:17
    So I do have a question. There are different ways that people get into pinball, and we're happy to talk origin stories or whatever. But a lot of people – I'm more of a collector slash hobbyist. I don't really do tournament pinball, mainly a time limit for me.
    3:35
    So at what point did you decide I'm going to be a tournament player? Because that is a different approach to a game than, hey, I want to buy a game and put it in my downstairs. Hold on two seconds, two seconds. It's not time. He's a pinball snob. He's like, my games are much better than everyone else's games. So I can't be burdened with going to other locations like the Nickel Mania. Okay, now there's Nickel Mania that they have flippers that aren't even trued.
    4:04
    There's one that's giving you the bird the whole time because it's already pre-flipped up, and half of the switches are broken. Hey, pre-flipped pinball. Yeah, I know. I don't even have to trap. It just lands there. I'm not kidding. We went to a Chuck E. Cheese, and my wife's like, hey, there's a pinball machine over there. And this was when I was pretty early into it. I had like four games at the time. And I went over it, and it was a Stern Pirates of the Caribbean. okay one of the flippers wasn't even attached the other one had no rubber on it and it was so blown out that you couldn't even see any of the inserts and i and i still put a few coins in it but man it was that was painful oh yeah sorry i didn't mean to cut you off yeah okay so i i'm a pinball snob yes yes who likes toppers so yeah so uh competitive pinball you're crossing a rubicon into, I'm going to do this.
    4:56
    It didn't start until 10 years ago. 2011, I don't remember the exact date. I could probably look it up if I went into an IFPA, but it was at a Tron launch tournament.
    5:09
    The Tron launch parties, before all the launch parties, became a bigger deal. I should have bought one of those Trons back then. That would have been either made a lot of money or been very happy with my purchase because Tron's a great game. But that was the beginning of competitive pinball. I did not know competitive pinball existed until that time because growing up in the era that I grew up in Minnesota and I guess I'd moved away by then. I think IFPA Worlds was held in Minnesota at one point but by that time I had moved away and was going to college and stuff like that. But yeah, I competed with the high scoreboard growing up with pinball. Well, first competing for the replay score. That was the main competition because I was on a limited set of quarters as a kid and wanted to keep playing. And then competing with the high scoreboard, trying to get your initials up. And then didn't learn about competitive pinball. Well, I take that back. I did stop by Chicago Expo before I really even knew what Expo was, and I don't think they even charged for admission, or if they did, it wasn't much. This is when they were releasing Stern Pirates of the Caribbean. They mentioned that in Chuck E. Cheese or Chuck E. Sneeze earlier.
    6:32
    But in terms of actually legitimately wanting to play competitively, it was that Tron launch party tournament, which by happenstance, I happened to win it. So it makes for a better taste in your mouth when the first tournament you were playing, you win.
    6:46
    Yeah, I would say. It even says – I looked it up just for you. June 10, 2011, Stern Launch Party, number one. There we go. So we're just a month – nearly a month past my 10-year anniversary of playing competitive pinball. And then, yeah, after that time, yeah, it was hook, line, and sinker. Totally into it. I like competing. I've never been great at sports but I played soccer and tennis growing up but wasn't particularly good at them but I still like competing and it pained me not to be able to really win that frequently and always liked playing card games board games and enjoyed competing with pinball and then when I found out the resources available online in terms of how to get better and by playing in leagues being around other people that move the machine and nudge the machine, because I didn't do that growing up. I thought that was cheating.
    7:48
    So I very happily then learned and you really learn that the best by playing physically in person with other people. In my opinion, you cannot learn effectively how to nudge the machine if you're just watching video. Not going to happen. You can learn flipper techniques from watching video, and you can learn rules from watching video, you can't learn nudging techniques until you play in person, watching somebody physically move the machine and then trying it yourself. Okay, I've got to ask because I'm looking at your rap sheet right now. You escalated quickly. So you did a Stern Launch Party. Then you did Texas Pinball Festival. And then you ended up at Papa World Pinball Championship.
    8:30
    What the heck? And this is just within the first three tournaments. I mean, that seems to go pretty quick.
    8:40
    Yeah, yeah. Well, I found out the online stuff is like, oh, wow, there's this thing called the Papa World Championship. And we were taking a road trip into the Midwest, my wife's family grew up in Ohio. And so we had the opportunity then to like, hey, let's go drive through Pittsburgh when this is taking place. And I did not play in the A division, by the way, the first time I went to Papa. Oh, okay. It was the first time. Well, I'm glad the first time you didn't. No, no. You've got to look at this one. Sorry. It's like the I'm going to assume this is your second time. Yeah. Your second time you took one hundred and thirty ninth in classics.
    9:16
    That's like the lowest you've ever done. I was scanning through, too. And most of them was like first, second, fourth. And then it's like one hundred thirty ninth. Yes. And there's only one. It's only once. It's like you only did it once. You learned most single digits. Many are double digits and like one triple digit.
    9:35
    Yeah, I didn't know what I was getting into there as far as the classics and didn't have a clue as far as how to play them. Didn't really learn how to play them until after my first Pinberg and then realized that, hey, classics are a lot of fun to play and compete on. You need some classics in your collection, Scott, although you told me you have some, and they're not in your basement. Right, I have a Genie. Yeah, that's a great pin. No, it's great, and I actually need to bring it down, but as you have seen in my basement, I'm out of space. so I'm looking at my games and I'm like which one would I move out to move Genie in and Genie is huge it is not a small game it's a big boy and you saw the stairs of death boy girl whatever there's a wizard and a genie on there but you saw the stairs of death that go down so it would be really hard for me to that would be murder I think you were talking with me or maybe it was Cara talking about the addition that you're contemplating So that's what you need to do before you put Genie in there. Oh, absolutely. My only complaint about classics right now are they're either too expensive to buy or you can't find them at all. Oh, seriously. So you've got to find some back alley sleazy job, like I'll take it off your hands.
    10:49
    I've got a future spa on a black night at home, but the only reason I've got them is because I'm fixing them up for a friend. But they're rough. You either get garbage piles or someone wants top dollar. It's like, well, at that price, I might as well just buy Avengers. Someone wants $5,000 for an Eldorado. Yeah, I'm thankful that I got my classics when I did because, like you mentioned, the price of pinball, on all pinball, has gone up. But especially from a percentage perspective, the price of classics has gone up far, far more than the price of new in box. And it's simple supply and demand because there is no additional supply coming in. And as you mentioned, the actual supply of even decent quality of like a player's quality classics is even smaller supply because there's some classics out there that are just roached. And then if you want really – if you want like Scott Larson level of quality, then you're talking about a really, really low amount of supply out there. Then you're talking about repros and having to repaint, restencil the cabinet and put a new hard top on it or just a complete new CPR play field, CPR back glass. And yeah, the cash register goes ding, ding, ding as you do that. Yeah, I don't want to restore freedom that much, but it'd be fun, yeah. Just hit up Martin Robbins and get one of those new fathoms coming to your house, right? Okay, so that is something in the future I want to talk about. I actually talked to someone who ordered a mermaid edition. Nice. Here in Utah? It's good. No, no. So this is – yeah, sorry. Power. So this is my friend Tony Murphy. He's up in the Minnesota area. So he said he's run into you once or twice at the tournaments, Colin. But he said you would have no idea who he was. But I talked to him yesterday about getting the – he ordered the mermaid. and I said yeah he has 31 games and they're they're super high quality and so he was talking about being excited about that and he uh he ordered a Halloween also and uh you know so yes I I'm I told him I was like I kind of want to come up and just visit you once you get that mermaid edition because I want to play it in the flesh that would be fun road trip to Minnesota yeah so So, yeah, but that's the very long-winded way of how I got into competitive pinball, which, you know, and I still, you know, obviously like to play a lot. I haven't been able to play much competitive pinball recently because people haven't, you know, it wasn't safe to do so initially, and then it was very, everybody was pretty tentative about doing so. I was actually out playing in location quite a while ago, just wearing my mask and doing that, and then got vaccinated and been ready to go. I even flew up to Wisconsin for one of the tournaments at District 82. I did a relatively new location there and made some good new friends up there. I plan on going up there again in October for their Super Series, where they're doing six tournaments over the course of four days or three days. So that will be fun. But yeah, competitive pinball is great. And I think more and more people continue to get into that. I think one of the best things about well-run competitive events is when they are running it in such a way that it caters to the broad spectrum of skill levels. And that's why you saw tournaments like Pinberg become so popular. was because it catered to a broad spectrum of skill levels. And, you know, from the expert level player down to the novice new player and social player, everybody could find ways to have fun. And, you know, of course, you're still going to play bad games. You're going to get frustrated about not playing well. But all in all, you still have a good time. So that's the thing I try to emphasize at the events that I run by having other divisions, B divisions or novice divisions, because I've seen the success and the feedback from players across that spectrum of skill levels.
    15:16
    And I don't really like it when I hear people talking about, oh, well, this is good for tournament players or this is not good for – it's like, what? No, I play in tournaments, yes, but I'm a pinball player. I'm a pinball player that likes to compete in tournaments. We still all play pinball.
    15:37
    And yeah, there are things you can do if you have the patience and the skill level to exploit certain things or features or rules in a particular game based upon the situation that presents itself in a competitive situation. But at the heart of it, we're still all just flipping the silver ball. And even people that don't play in tournaments, you're still competing. You're just competing for different things. You're competing to try to get to a certain objective or a certain wizard mode or trying to take down one of the high scores or get your initials up on the pinball machine. So we're all competing. It's just a matter of how you're doing it.
    16:12
    You're also involved in somewhat with the Texas Pinball Festival. Is that correct? Yeah, correct. I'm one of the tournament directors for the TPS tournaments. so is that uh so we want to josh and i want to talk about with this opening backup of the ifba and tournaments and first off i want to talk about how well first or second however you want to put it i want to talk about how that has uh i guess how it feels opening that up after having like a dam of on the water of this desire for playing pinball for a year so that's that's one question i have and another one is lead me through texas is has been a huge success when it comes to everybody coming and enjoying it whether or not they're coming to enjoy the festival or coming to compete or just experiencing the whole thing does that put more pressure on you as uh you know As replay and Pinberg have become smaller with the pandemic, how are you adapting to the new changes? So either a question first.
    17:24
    So the first thing, in terms of the dam breaking or releasing, so I don't anticipate there being much change in terms of TPF. The reason why is because we were already selling out the tournament. It's a capped number of player event because of the design of the format.
    17:53
    We give everybody a limited set of entries. And so if I'm offering or expecting people to set aside their time and their vacation and travel and then pay money to enter the tournament for a limited set of entries, I want to make sure that they have enough time to actually play those entries. So then it becomes a matter of crunching the numbers and doing the math as far as capacity of your bank of pinball machines and the time it takes. And so you have to put forth and do the planning and things like that. So I do also that type of stuff for a living as well. So doing that, you have it set up as a limited event. So we already were selling that out, not as quickly as something like Pinbird, but still selling it relatively quickly. And when we had to cancel TPF for 2020, two weeks prior to the event taking place, we made the offer to all of the people registered for the tournament. We refunded all their tournament entry fees, but we asked similar to how the TPF organizing team, so Ed and Kim Vander Veen and Paul McKinney, they offered and said, hey, if anybody's willing, would you mind not just asking for a refund for your event pass? Because at that time, there were still some question marks about whether the venue was going to still force them to pay all the money even though they weren't holding the event. Thankfully, they were able to work things out there, but in doing so, that helped to let the Texas Pinball LLC remain afloat and financially viable so they could continue scheduling stuff. I think maybe out of 160 players, I think there were less than five that didn't want to have their event passes carry over. And by doing so I offered to them like if you let your event passes carry over you will retain your spot on a will call base Not a will call but you get right at first refusal So in other words, we won't be holding an open sign up for TPF 2022.
    20:04
    All those players that elected to allow their money for their event passes to roll to 22 from 2020 are going to be able to retain their spot in the tournament for 22. So there might be a sign-up as few as only five or ten spots for the main event. There's a side tournament of classics that we will have a sign-up for that, which will also be capped. But that's at a higher number. I think it's in the 200s for that one. And that will open up in October. I'd look for announcements later in the next coming couple months. But we'll probably have those sign-ups open up sometime during the first week of October. and yeah so I don't anticipate there being any difference the pinball the demand for competitive pinball was high before COVID the demand for competitive pinball for TPF in particular is still going to be high it's probably going to be even higher just because of the number of people that continue to find pinball and find enjoyment in it specifically coming up here in the next couple months you're going to see that like you mentioned the dam releasing or whatever there's a lot of people that are scheduling events for August, you know, when the IFPA is sanctioning events again. And so that will certainly take place. But these larger events, you can't just on a whim schedule a big, huge tournament in August on a month's notice. You know, these are things that you have to plan. You know, we start planning for TPF, you know, within a couple months of the other one wrapping up. And we even have like kind of a wrap up, you know, feedback session powwow for the uh the one that just took place you know with the week after so it's fresh in our minds but then we're planning for the next one right away and there's a ton more planning that you know obviously that i'm not even privy to for the event itself that that uh that the vander veens do and and paul and others on the tpf team that take care of as far as that uh you know what i consider a marquee event for not just the u.s but for the world in terms of a in terms of a pinball event. So, yeah. So in that regard, so that's the first question. The second question you asked was, um, how do we, Oh, I forget what was it? How do we manage all the, the holding the event itself or, well, it does there feel like there's more pressure because, um, with, uh, Pinberg basically ceasing to exist as we know it, it seems like it pushes Texas pinball festival into,
    22:34
    and, and it's already in elite status, but, uh, even more, that there's less of them. Yeah, that's an interesting take. I hadn't really thought of it in that way.
    22:44
    You know, we'd certainly, we've talked about, I've talked about with various people on, okay, are we going to have another, is there going to be some other event that, you know, to replace Pinberg? So TPF is not looking to replace Pinberg, at least from my perspective. I'm not personally willing to set aside what I deem to be the amount of time and effort it would take to organize something like that. And you can't do it because PPF does not have a standing collection of pins. I'm at the mercy of awesome collectors like yourselves. that in terms of the local collectors here in Texas area, also people coming from Oklahoma, as far away as from Missouri, Kansas City, bringing pins to TPF. So to try to replace Pinberg, no, TPF can't do that because we don't have a standing collection to hold a tournament anywhere close to that size. So the other thing about TPF is that it is a pinball show first and foremost. ReplayFX started out as a pinball tournament.
    23:55
    So its nucleus, if you will, was Pinberg and a pinball tournament. It then evolved into a greater pinball and amusement show. It wasn't just pinball. TPF is first and foremost a pinball show. Now, it's also an arcade show because there's a lot of arcade stuff that goes on there. It has also, over the years, morphed into an industry show. I would say second only from an industry level involvement to something like Expo. I would argue there's elements of TPF I think that have actually eclipsed Expo in terms of some of the overall show. But I think just be the proximity of Expo and the history of Expo that it still remains the premier industry show, if you will. But TPF from an overall getting everything and fun factor from the event itself to the number of pins and the collectors that are bringing them in and the quality of pins that get brought in, I think it's in some ways eclipsed what Expo does in some areas. Now, Expo, from the sounds of it, is trying to do some retooling and may figure out ways to do things just as well on that front as well. But as far as the tournaments, I don't feel any additional pressure now that replay and pinburg are gone because I was never trying to make the TPF tournaments pinburg or replay-like. Like I was – what we were trying to do when I – when Ed Vanderveen called me up and – because I had played in the TPF tournaments, but I had never run them. And I had run some local ones here, and I had offered him some suggestions after one year. And so he called me up then later that next summer and said, hey, Colin, it's Ed. I'm like, oh, hey, would you like to – would you like to be part of the solution or would you like to be part of the – turning it into this? The idea from my perspective was trying to take what is a world-class show of TPF, and I wanted to have the tournaments be at a world-class level for the tournaments. And they were still good tournaments before that, but in terms of just how we organized them and executed them and making sure that they were at a world-class level, I wanted those tournaments to evolve and be at the same level as what the show is at. And so that's what I think we've been successful in doing that. I would like, I would prefer it if the tournaments were still given a little bit more prominence at TPF, but I understand the place of the tournaments. And the TPF show is about the show first and foremost. The tournaments are there, and they're awesome, and I encourage everybody and everybody to play in them, but the TPF as a festival is still about the show itself.
    26:53
    It sounds like you're getting prepared for a really good TPF this year then. Yeah, it's going to be great. It'll be nice after having to – who would have thought we would have had a two-year hiatus because of it. But that's just the nature of when TPF, the show, was going off, was literally right on the cusp of seeing what COVID was doing and how quickly and easily it was spreading. So, yeah, we lost two years of TPF. Be glad to have it back in March of next year. Go to TexasPinball.com for all the information on that. I don't think that they've released the hotel block yet, so just go follow Texas Pinball Festival, the event, or Texas Pinball itself on Facebook. And you can then, for any of your listeners that are wanting to make sure that they get, there's not just the hotel itself of the event, but there's surrounding hotels that are easy walking distance and literally right across the street.
    27:54
    I forget, have the two of you been to TPF before? yeah we were going to go back in 2020 but uh you know the shenanigans ensued and we end up after i stay home so we were we were also i was booked to do the the deep root reveal oh yeah you were i was i was going to do that first and then go to texas so we are planning on doing it uh this next time and certainly i'll expect a text from you when it's time to book our hotel so we don't get into the shenanigans that we had for Expo this year.
    28:31
    Uh-oh. You're sleeping under one of Josh Sharp's pinball machines in his basement? Yeah. Well, Josh did say if I could help him move a pinball machine, then he would let me sleep under the bed. Now, Colin, you just did a big tour and you swung out to the west and you actually came through and visited Josh and me. I did. Now, I will say, in full disclosure, I was actually toying with the idea of having Colin stay at my house. And let me give you a little background history on this.
    29:07
    We – I let someone stay at my house who was a college friend, and my wife didn't know them. And their children were monsters. and it was I seriously it was one of the most stressful days of our life that they came and I like we were it just was not a good fit and so my wife was like super nervous she's like I you know him but I you know we don't know the kids and all that kind of stuff and so we were she was nervous and I was on call and I was working late and so So we didn't – however, I will say in full disclosure, you have fully passed the test since you came to my house that you get a pass. Next time you're coming through, the blind date worked out, and you can actually come and stay over next time you're here. Awesome. Wow.
    30:06
    Hopefully not having to sleep out in the backyard or anything like that. Yeah. I was going to just say I don't know if the bar is super high though because I got to stay. And apparently I was a good guest because now we have a podcast. That was before. Oh, I'm not kidding. That was before my friend came out, and it was like my wife's like, dude, we got so burned on that one.
    30:28
    So if I would have shown up wearing like a John Belushi college shirt, that probably would have been bad. Yeah, with a sign that says eat me. Probably not. Yeah.
    30:41
    But yeah, no, that's cool. It was awesome to be able to visit both you guys, and yeah, you guys are very hospitable. If anybody's going through the Utah for whatever reason, vacation like we were or for work and you're going through the Salt Lake City area, or as I discovered, I thought that Josh lived just north of Salt Lake City in Ogden near Dinosaur Land. But no, no, no. Josh lives in legit dinosaur land in the northeast corner of Utah. But yeah, it was it was very cool to be able to get to meet you guys in person and to, you know, share share meals and and play pinball and talk pinball. And yeah, it was a great trip. And also for anybody who's ever just didn't even know, like I didn't really know much about the all the different national parks in Utah. My family, we're big into going to national parks and hiking and camping and stuff like that. This time we were glamping it. We were staying in hotels. But a lot of times we don't have to travel as far. We'll go camping. But, man, the parks and the landscape and topography and stuff in Utah is really spectacular. Great place to visit.
    32:01
    Yeah, no, we don't get out enough. I even told you that I, I told my wife when, after I talked to you and I said, I've actually never even been to the grand Canyon. And I know a grand Canyon South of us, but I feel that we, we don't take advantage of the things that we have in our own backyard as much as people do when they come in. So it was a nice reminder for me to, to try to get out. Now, when you came and played my games, I think you played five games or maybe six games and took five GCs. On every single one.
    32:36
    Yeah, guilty. I will say that when Colin's talking about being able to see someone with elite skills in person, that is 100% true. Because just the small things I saw while Colin was playing, and he was legitimately giving me a tutorial while he was beating all the high scorers in the game. And he got to Alien Invasion on Simpsons Pinball Party, which I've never seen. And you tell me, oh, yeah, you need to do this. You do this. And so it's a combination of rules, knowledge and skills and nudging knowledge. But the one thing I want to bring up that actually took me to the next level, because I'm proud to say last night I defeated Collins grand champion score on Deadpool. it was when you talked about imagining the outlanes as two extra flippers. And I want you to tell that quick tidbit because that was very interesting to me, and that really took my understanding of nudging to a new level. Because I always nudged side to side, and it seemed to not work as well as what you told me.
    33:44
    Yeah, sure. You have to – I think it was – you had another person over there as well that was – I think he even knew her to pinball. And so I was walking through. Well, we had Gary. We had Gary, and I can't remember. Oh, yes, my friend Kyle came over. Was it Kyle that you were talking to? Yeah. I think so. And so you had mentioned that he was relatively new in a pinball. He had some pins at home as well. And so I was just – I was walking him through. And nobody ever really explained it to me like that, but it was – I never thought about it. And then just kind of the light bulb went off one day. And so when I see a pin like Deadpool. So Deadpool, I'm guessing most people who are listening to this podcast know Deadpool. It's your fan layout. Now, it's got a great pin, by the way. I'm not trying to demean it in any way by calling it a fan layout. But what I mean there is it only has two flippers. There's no upper flipper on it. And so what I ask people when they see the pin, I say, how many flippers does this pin have? And they go, well, duh, Colin, that's obvious. There's two flippers. I say, no, there's actually four. And the third and fourth flipper on that particular game and on 99% of the games out there are your top of slingshot and in-lane, out-lane post area on either side. and by an additional flipper what I'm trying to you know really drive home to somebody is that you can control how the ball bounces and reacts in those areas and when I first started learning how to nudge I was just trying to do the same thing you mentioned Scott of side to side and when the ball was already pretty much on death's door of already going between that in lane out lane post and the side wall and going to its unhappy home, you know, down the out lane and into the drain. And the goal is to upward nudge most of the time. Sometimes you can do a little bit combination of a diagonal and some side nudges as well. But your goal is to get the ball the heck out of there. You just don't want it anywhere near those areas. And you can physically control that as a player, not through flipper buttons, but through nudging. And most of the time those upward nudges are not going to get you in big trouble with the tilt bob either. And if people can learn that, you will end up playing two or three extra balls per game. So when you see elite players playing the game of pinball, they are playing a six-ball game instead of a three-ball game. And the reason why is because they are getting extra balls because of their skills or nudging skills, and they're not draining as often as the novice player. So they're getting to play pseudo extra balls. And you get to play extra balls by learning that those top of slingshots and the post in your in-lane, out-lane areas are extra flippers.
    36:44
    You know, Scott, what you should have done is had Colin help you on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles like I did. Sorry, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles like I did. and just kind of like suck his soul because he couldn't get the triple mondo jackpot. Or just you can't hit them in rapid succession in multiball on that game. Yeah, that was brutal. Yeah, it was brutal because you had to – the design of that game and the rules of that game is you get one – I think it's one of each multiball before each mini wizard mode or wizard mode. So if you miss, then you have to then chop wood at modes to get to the next mini wizard mode or wizard mode. And then you can now qualify a new, what is it, Ninja Turtle Power multiball. Yeah, Turtle Power. Pizza multiball.
    37:44
    So that Turtle Mono jackpot, though, is absurd. Josh nailed the single ball one with ease I think on ball one of your first player it was quick but you then have to hit I think it's three upper loops Josh yes consecutively too yes within two or three seconds of each other well I think if you missed if you got a rebound you could still kind of get up there because there was once where you'd missed but made the shot again and it counted as a double mondo so yeah So yeah, that's brutal. But that is one of the requirements for getting to the wizard mode. Is it Cowabunga or something like that? Yeah, Cowabunga, yep.
    38:24
    But yeah, that's a very – and that's – I'm sure if Dwight ever had the time to go back and change things. I mean that's one of those things as a rules designer. I don't think that's ever intentional to try to create something that is – So hard, yeah. Yeah, well, not just that it's so hard, but that once you miss it, the light at the end of the tunnel to try to get back there again is so far away.
    38:54
    Although I will say there's some games out there where if you miss it, there's no chance of getting it. In Jurassic Park, if you want to qualify the When Dinos Rule the Earth Ultimate Wizard Mode, you have to beat and complete each of the three mini-wizard modes. So the Visitor Center, the Raptors in the Kitchen thing or whatever, and the Museum Mayhem. And Secure Control. you have to complete all three of those in the same game and then defeat nublar and then that unlocks the when dinos rule the earth so that's even more uh heart-wrenching because you could play the whole game and get two of those but then on the third one flub it up which is very easy to do especially in a secure control room that a beast oh yeah um and then you can play the whole game and get two of those but then on the third one flub it up which is very easy to do especially in a secure control room That a beast And then you know now you don have a chance Now you can still go forward and still do the escape nooblar and have fun with that, but you will have zero chance because you only get one shot at it. So in that way, Elwynn was more diabolical than Dwight on that one.
    40:04
    Yeah, that's only happened to me never. So I'm saying these things like secure control room and Raptors in the kitchen and Scott's just nodding along and just like his bedside manner with the patient, you know. I think I've activated one or two of those modes. Yes. But Raptor in the kitchen is really fun to play. I like playing it, even though it can be frustrating at times if you stop hitting shots and those Raptors start moving backwards instead of forwards. Indeed. Yeah. but it sounds like uh there are possibly the things i do like about turtles though is the co-op mode and the the competition mode and so i love that they're uh i wouldn't be surprised if they're doing things more like that because that will take pinball to a next level of being able to play cooperatively or hey i'm the best player and i'm going to challenge all three of you guys and see who can win.
    41:02
    And really, Dwight really did push the boundary on that. And he started the whole Are You a God mode with jumping to the end of games and trying the wizard modes without actually having to go through the game to get there. So, yeah. Is it a wizard mode, though? What's that? What would you consider, like, Kalabunga and Valhalla? What are those kind of modes? It's obviously Paths, like Destroy the Ring, and Final Battle. Wait, Valhalla? Valinor? Or Valinor, sorry.
    41:35
    Norris, you know, versus anywho. Middle Earth. Yeah. I mean, I only consider there to be one wizard mode in each pinball machine. Meaning the ultimate wizard mode. And everything else I call, I usually call them mini wizard modes. Some people call them now just they call them all wizard modes. I like to differentiate. I think every game, the rules designer has come up with some ultimate challenge in the machine. And I fully understand, and it's not trying to brag about it, because there's many, many other activities and sports that I am awful at. And I still like to do it. I still like to play, but I'm not good at it. And so I get it that there are many people, Scott, that will never, ever get to those things. Yeah, no, no. Unless I take the glass off and add some rubber bands, there's no chance. Yeah, which – so to your point, I think it is genius to put those things at the start button in a challenge format. but also because those coders, I mean, they put a lot of effort, and the rules designers put a lot of effort into programming and the rules design and the choreography and lights and everything else, and the video assets that go along with it. And so it's awesome. You know, now people, anybody can know. The sad part, though, is most people have no clue that those things exist.
    43:10
    I mean, so dear listener. I think they're going to get there, though. Dear listener, if you're new to pinball, on these newer machines, you can hold both flipper buttons, and it will give you options as far as gameplay options. So try that out and see what happens. But yeah, to be able to play at least some one of the wizard modes, like a mini wizard mode. So I think most of them are all the mini wizard mode. So there's still some ultimate wizard mode that you can't get to from the start button, which I think is also appropriate. But it gives somebody – because most people, 99% of the people are never going to get to the super-duper mega extreme wizard mode of Simpsons. So you saw Alien Invasion, Scott. That's a mini wizard mode. That's not the ultimate wizard mode. Right. And so it would be really cool, in my opinion, if Simpsons Code had in it that you could just start Alien Invasion from the start button because I think it's one of the best mini wizard modes in all of pinball. I love how that works in terms of you go these progressively more difficult because there's more balls in the multiball and having to tuck each one away to advance to the next one. And so I actually – not to completely segue. We can talk about Spooky and Halloween later. But listening to the super awesome pinball show and the interview they did with the Emerys, I was kind of excited to hear – I think it was Bug described that they're using all their physical seven ball locks for their wizard mode because it kind of reminded me of Alien Invasion, which is one of my favorite of all time. So yeah, kudos to the pinball designers and manufacturers. out there that are putting more game features at the fingertips of the player and of the collector that they can enjoy these even more so, which is great. I mean, if you're spending that many thousands of dollars on a toy, better to be able to get more enjoyment out of it and not feel like you're cheating like Scott when he takes the glass off and you know, beat up my Deadpool GC. Or turning it down to extra easy. Well, I did magnets too. I had a magnet to keep it above.
    45:28
    That's a great transition, though. We want to kind of go to the news. Let's talk Spooky. Let's talk Ultraman. Let's talk Halloween.
    45:38
    I guess I'll start it off. I was shocked that they sold out in three hours. Same. Not because I'm underestimating Spooky and their ability to sell pinball. I just don't feel like Halloween was a title that carried enough weight with it to sell.
    45:58
    Was it 1,250 machines? I mean, this movie is from 1978. I think so. Obviously, it has a great following. I didn't realize it was one of the most highest grossing independent films of all time.
    46:10
    At the time, it set the bar. They only put like roughly $300,000 into it. and then it ended up making more from like 60, $80 million off of a two week project. So I just, I guess I'm, I don't know. I'm not a huge horror fan.
    46:27
    And so maybe I didn't see it, but then again, I guess they're hitting a part of the market that isn't being tapped by anyone else at this point either. So I don't know what your guys' thoughts. Fun, fun fact first. Do you guys know what mask Michael Myers is wearing? I do. Do you, Colin?
    46:48
    Who's the man in the mask? I haven't seen that movie in so long. It was like Phantom of the Opera. No, you've seen a picture.
    46:59
    Whose mask is it that he's wearing? Who's the character that is the mask? Oh, I don't know. It's not Jason. It's not a hockey mask. No, no, no. Who is it, Josh? It's a stretched out James T. Kirk from Star Trek mask. Yeah. It's William Shatner. Yeah. Seriously? Yeah. Yep.
    47:26
    Wow. Yeah. Now you're going to be staring at it. You're going to be like, what the heck? Yeah. There's something on the plane. Yeah. Okay. So, Colin. They sold out in three hours. Sold out in three hours. So is this a game that you are interested in? One theme-wise. Let's talk about that. Theme-wise, Colin, you.
    47:50
    Theme-wise, I mean, not at the top of my list, no. I mean, similar to Josh, I'm not a horror movie fan. So, I mean, I've watched a number of horror movies, but I'm not chomping at the bit to go watch one. I much prefer different movie genres than horror. So it's not at the top of my list. Now, there's some nostalgia to it in terms of when I grew up and watching the Halloween movie for the first time or the Friday the 13th movie or the Nightmare on Elm Street movies for the first time and being freaked out because I was of the age that it was truly scary. it wasn't just cheesy scary as a kid and adolescent or whatever oh wow that actually was good quality scary but I like most even though I don't like Iron Maiden as a music but I love the Iron Maiden pinball machine so I'm never going to thematically exclude a pinball machine unless it's something that's like, you know, beyond the range of reason for me from a, you know, from some like a moral standpoint or something like that. So there's certain pinball machines that have been made or, you know, these one-off themes or whatever that I'm just not, I'm not interested in playing those, but that's a whole other story. But as far as Halloween goes, no, not my favorite theme. Okay. Josh? uh yeah i'm i'm right there with colin i mean it's it's one of those things i won't exclude the game because it's themed halloween but yeah i it just doesn't appeal to me and and scott and colin you're both family men i mean that's one of those things too does this even get into your house because of the theme and how brutal it can be as well like not in my now i i will say though I have a friend who's an oral surgeon and when this came out he is a big horror fan and he texted me the reveal video and said this is amazing so while I will say this is not something that caters to me it does cater to an underserved crowd sure for you Josh you're a little more than 10 years younger than me so when you grew up I'm did you do were the Halloween and Friday the 13th movies were those were they even like in yeah yeah were you were you watching any of those the honestly the only reason it was because my mom grew up in the 80s and it was kind of like we we snacked on that 80s culture in my house but it wasn't like my friends or anything were watching it you know it wasn't it wasn't relevant at that point I mean I grew up in the late 90s high school was mid 2000s and so you were still having the reboots and the spinoffs and the Jason versus Freddie and stuff like that. But it just, it, I never felt like it was relevant to me. It was just a, a reboot of a late seventies, early eighties franchise, you know? So outside of this being a horror theme, is this also then, you know, guilty of some of the same, you know, niche, you know, age group that it's appealing to like these, some of these like older classic rock band themes. that are appealing to the mid-40s on-up pinball collector crowd because I think I've only watched the original Halloween movie. I don't recall ever watching any of the others. All 11, yeah, the 11 others. So I'm guessing all the reboots, similar to some other movies and series that I like, most of the time, especially if you get past the second one or third one, they start really getting long in the tooth uh and they they jump the shark and so i can't imagine all these reboots have been all that high quality so i wonder if spooky is is you know but it didn't hurt them at all they still sold out but i wonder if it's still in the same vein of of pinball in terms of these themes and licenses that are appealing to people that are you know not younger than 35. Yeah, over 40. The other thing too is Halloween is releasing... They made a sequel to the original. They got rid of all the sequels except for the original. They're releasing a sequel to the original from 78 this year. Obviously, it's still relevant if they have 11 movies, including two more planned or something like that. Yeah, I mean it's a very well-known – I mean I think there's a lot of – people recognize it. It's a very recognizable theme. So I was happy that Spooky was able to get something like that. I mean they've got a very current and relevant theme with Rick and Morty. Oh, yeah. But Halloween is also very recognizable. So good for them and good for them that they sold out. I mean, it's an interesting looking layout. Definitely something I haven't seen before. There were some elements where I saw it and I'm like, oh, it kind of almost looked like some of Rob Zombie's layout. Just a little bit here and there. But the stacked upper playfields would be interesting to play that. I like me a good quality upper playfield. I also detest upper play fields that are not well implemented, but these look like they have potential.
    53:54
    I'll be interested to find out just how, beyond the teaser trailer video, just how the ball interacts with the mechanical features and things that they've thrown in there for the theme. Yeah. Because when I first looked at the pictures, like, oh, wow, they threw a bunch of stuff in there. But is it just a lot of eye candy to try to make that whole world under glass, make it look like the Halloween thing? But then is it going to be fun to play and fun to flip? And I hope it is. I think it could be. And I'm not going to base my opinion on it until I actually get to play it. But like I said, I like upper play fields. I like Wizard of Oz, for instance, and having two upper play fields that are both very different. Love, Sincerity, Pendle Party upper play field. So, yeah, bring it on. And I obviously won't be having one coming to my house, but that's okay. You could also have Ultraman, though. There is a theme for you. The Ultraman theme is for you. If the Halloween theme doesn't work and you like the play field, you can legitimately buy the Ultraman. To be full disclosure, I practically have no idea what Ultraman is. Full disclosure, I had no idea that Ultraman was a thing.
    55:23
    Josh, okay, so what do you see, Josh, when you see the layout? Because that's really all we have to go off. well between the layout and listening to what they said on on a super awesome pinball show if you haven't checked it out go check out franchi and christian line uh they sat down with charlie and bug and um it sounds like you have to unlock the upper play fields they won't be available from the very get-go you're gonna have to do something on the the base play field to actually unlock to go up top um i'm i'm nervous because they said this is a flow game i haven't played this but there's a lot of holes the ball drops into that comes out of a subway kind of thing i just i don't see how you're going to get flow yeah with how many holes and stuff that you're dropping into and and the one thing i learned from the mandalorian reveal was people don't mind upper playfields so long as they're integrated properly but that's a lot of people like i don't want to be up on that playfield very long or that upper playfield very long or i don't want the objective to force me to go back to that place that many playfield multiple times and it's funny because it's like you know people like eh it seems like they're very on the fence with upper playfields and then spooky's like i got three you know um i do the one thing i'm very intrigued about um I think it'll go one of two ways. They called it the butt pretzel on, on saps show. You have to, if you're looking at the, the play field, it's the, the second one up, it's got the double spinners on it. You backhand that, that the right spinner. And if you hold up the flipper, if you do it right and you hold up the flipper, it will go through that spinner, come right back through the flipper and then go through the second spinner and, and flip right back around to you. Yeah. And that's like, That's like Wizard of Oz on the Munchkin. If you flip it and you hold up the flipper, you can usually get two loops and it slows down enough. Correct, but the ball diverts. So it is similar to that, but the ball goes different ways. Yeah, I see. It's like a figure eight almost. And so I'm intrigued by that. I half wonder if it makes it too easy. I don't know. Rules can always fix anything, especially on layout. I mean, look at Walking Dead. but I actually was somewhat intrigued with Ultraman. The problem with spooky games is you have to get in on the order and then you've got to decide if you want to keep it or not. Well, sure, but there are people. That's if you want to be the first in. Yeah. I've always said, if you have that Grail game, it will be available. Okay, I'm going to, here's my take on it and once I say it, you're never going to look at this play field differently. bring it this that's quite the bold statement it is a bold statement but as soon as i say it you're gonna say bingo all right i'm rolling it up i've got it ready okay you got it yeah i got ultraman you got halloween yeah exactly okay here's the word and the word of the day is white water okay do you see it this is a very similar layout to whitewater um i don't know that's a little too bold what is the sriracha yes it is i'm trying to get a good angle of it here we go yeah i think it's i think it's just too yeah i could see that there's there's some there's some elements but I don't think it's, I don't think there's enough. Look under, look under John Carpenter, like the, the trans light and then go underneath. And I'm on this weekend pinball, by the way. Um, hi Jeff. Uh, great site. This weekend, pinball.com.
    59:22
    But it seems that it seems like the shot selection have a lot of it. Now the scoops at a different location, but you have the upper flipper that takes it to the so it slightly different to have the pretzel up there but then you also have the shot that goes up and then drops down on the hedges I like the insanity fall shot Yeah. I just think it's, uh, it's, it has a lower, the, the lower right field ramp, right where, right where the whirlpool would be. Yes. So the basement, uh, upper play field. Yeah. And it doesn't have, it doesn't have the pops over on the right, you know, it doesn't have a scoop kick out on the left. Okay. Well, I didn't say it was a carbon copy. I was just saying, so it has, it has an upper. So yes, it has an upper play field, upper flipper shot that returns the ball down a return that feeds your left flipper. There you go. But that's not to me, that's not big enough stretch to be like, Oh, this is just like whitewater. Well, I'm just saying, I think it gives you a feel of when I first saw this, I thought, wow, that's a lot of upper play fields and I wonder how that's going to feel. However, when you, when I play something like Whitewater, it's, it's a fun game and it doesn't feel as over the top as, as you would think with the five ramps in there. But this feels like it would still have a similar feel to it and that there's a lot of stuff to do, but it doesn't feel like it's returning back at you at lightning speed. Like say Black Knight does.
    60:55
    I mean, I'll give you one other, I'll give you one other thing that is like whitewater. I don't know why they chose to do this.
    61:06
    The layout of the inserts up the center of the play field are like the rafts. Yep. If you're wet willies. I'll give you that. If you're looking at the Ultraman one, I guess it's more of a bomb. I don't know, but it does look like a waterfall now that you say that too. Yeah. Huh. all right okay listeners tell josh that i'm right that it does look like white water so i get concerned with that much upper play field it abstracts the right side of the play field so much that's hard to you feel like you're shooting the center and the left not much of the right well and legitimately uh to pivot a little bit i actually went and played the mandalorian and i okay i thought the mandalorian was actually a fun shooter game and i told uh Kyle, who's a local distributor, that I thought it would be a big seller because it didn't feel like I was hunting for shots on the first and second play. It felt like I kind of knew at least where the shots. So it felt very intuitive, which I think is important on many games. But there is a question about how often the Mandalorian helmet mini play field is going to be used because you don't want to feel like a gimmick. you know like most lower play fields i i would say um i don't know anybody who says wow i really like that lower play field in acdc um or congo or monsters it just feels like it's yeah or monster it's it's a similar thing it's like a diversion so uh if that feels like it's a challenge or if it feels like pinball circus where you go up to the upper play field then you move to another upper play field, then you move to another upper play field. Is that good or bad? I don't know because I haven't seen it that much in a production game and just played it in a game.
    62:59
    Yeah, I don't know what to see. Yeah, because I fear because I don't like for instance, the amount of real estate blocked by the Game of Thrones premium LE upper play field. And this gives me some nightmares of that type of dominance of your field of view. When you look at how far that lower, that second one extends forward, it is that kind of how far down it is. It's maybe not quite as wide, or maybe it is. But I do give Spooky a lot of credit because their upper play fields, including Alice Cooper's, there's lots to do on them on the upper play field.
    63:49
    There's not just, you know, so for instance, I'm just going to have to, it's not just an arc of targets to shoot at. There's a lot of different things to do. And the notion of going from like one upper play field to another, I like that. But I completely agree with you, Josh, earlier. You mentioned that you're like, what, flow? Tons of flow. I agree. And I don't mind that, by the way. I like variety. I like pinball machines that have stop and go. Like, for instance, Simpson's Pinball Party has a lot of stop and go to it. Now, it has shots that you can say, oh, that flows. Like, it has a ramp. Oh, that's great flow. So this also has a ramp. Hey, that's great flow. And maybe it has one of these shots that you shoot through or under upper plate fields that wraps back around and maybe as an orbit. So it has some flow to it, but it's not like your Star Trek or Led Zeppelin where you have multiple options to shoot at to continue this never-ending combo like some of your Steve Ritchie games or the flow that you can get into on Deadpool and other games like that. I just don't see that level of flow. it has shots that have flow. Don't get me wrong. Every pinball machine has flow, just no matter how much of it.
    65:13
    But I think they should own it. Own the fact that you've got a bunch of really cool, hopefully really cool to shoot stop and go shots. I think that's great.
    65:23
    I think, honestly, the artwork looks great to me. The toys look great. I like the peekaboo, the whack-a-mole. I can't wait to play this in October. I know I'll definitely see one at Pinball Expo, so I'm ready to give it a try. So the numbers they sold, are you impressed?
    65:41
    Yeah. Double what they had of Rick and Morty in less time. I mean, Rick and Morty was $750. They did Ultraman and Godzilla $1,750. So that's more than double. And Charlie was drinking a beer for lunch. He was celebrating. He was done. As he should, man. Good job. So next round's on spooky, I guess. Well, that tells me that they are leveling up as a pinball company. Yep.
    66:14
    And I will say I hopped on the pin side thread and I was looking through and there were some obvious comparisons to Deep Root when they said Spooky sold out in three hours and you had a month and you sold 130 Razzas. Yeah. I don't want to beat this drum too much, but it does speak a little bit about where people's confidence is, and especially with a theme that resonates with them. I agree. I don't think too many people were resonated with the Raza for Raza. But that's my other question, though. I feel like you're not just buying a Halloween. You're not buying an Ultraman. You're buying a spooky game. and sometimes i mean every pinball machine is going to have a problem i don't know a single company out there that hasn't had a problem but it seems like their customer service when it comes to repairing those machines uh is pretty good you get you get i mean i have charlie's personal email so if i need anything he i can just get right to him and i don't even own a spooky game I mean, it's just, I feel like they're doing it right. They're expanding slowly, but they're doing it the right way. And so I think when you do it the way that they've done it, they've done it right. Whereas Deep Root came in fast and hard. They were like a firework, you know. They shot up, blew up, nothing left to see. I was just saying, this is what, their fifth game? I mean, they had America's Most Haunted. They had Rob Zombie. They had Jetsons. They had TNA.
    68:00
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. Maybe it's Rick and Morty. Domino's. Oh, seven. You're right. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I missed a few in there. I was going to say, I thought there was.
    68:12
    Can you count the Godzilla homebrew? I mean, probably not. I could have swore there was just one more that we're missing. and someone's sitting there like no you're fine or someone's you're right it's this one yeah uh rick and morty alice cooper tna jetson dominoes rob zombie america's most haunted yep so two four six eight nine lucky number nine and they've been a business for eight and a half years so yeah uh let's move on really quick uh before we wrap this up i just want to talk really quickly about the oopsie down in Vegas because it still baffles me. I hope this is wrong. It baffles me. And this is the reason why. I work in construction. I've had to deal with permits and stuff like that before. Not only did it get past the surveyor, I don't know how it is in Nevada, but in Utah, you have to have an inspector, city or county. You have to say what the issue is. Oh, sorry. Let me rewind this. Josh, you have to say what the issue is because some people may not know correct so what pinball hall of fame's neighboring hotel i can't remember their name but the neighboring hotel has just noticed that the building itself is sitting on eight feet of their property uh which and it says that everyone's lorry lawyering up which and it's it's prime real estate right on the strip it's not like it's like oh i'll just gift that to you or we can make an agreement on it but what baffles me is like i said in the state utah you have to have a city or county inspector come out to verify that all the measurements are correct on top of the surveyor who came out and did all their work and why did the hotel not notice this as they were digging the hole because there obviously would have been a hole dug i mean it just there's so many comedy of errors up to this point it's just it's just weird to me because it's like how did you catch it so quick but you didn't catch it during the construction and and nor did I don't know. I feel bad for Tim Arnold because I don't feel like he's at fault at all. He hired a company to come do this, and the company messed up.
    70:22
    I hope it's not as reported. I guess that's what I'm saying. It just seems so weird. Yeah. Well, I think – I looked at the Pinside thread on at least one of them on this, and somebody was saying that they attended the soft opening or grand opening festivities at the Pinball Hall of Fame.
    70:48
    And Arnold mentioned – he mentioned that he alluded to it in his opening talk. So I don't think this is – I don't think this is hearsay. Now, I will say that while this is on the strip, this actually isn't prime strip real estate. This is really on the – it's on the south side, which is – really, Mandalay Bay is the end of the strip, and this is really pushing close to that. And so it's – Yeah, but it doesn't matter the property value. To Josh's point, it's like how do you – how does somebody – how are they off by that much? I mean, I'm not in construction. I'm not in surveying. I don't do that type of work. I mean, I just remember when buying the houses I bought. You have the plat that you were given that shows, and it's in excruciating detail, and off by eight feet?
    71:44
    That's a lot. Yeah, that's an Andre the Giant you're off by. Yeah. That's a car length. Yeah. That's what baffles me. It just – how did the – I don't know. It's a comedy of errors, and that's the part that stinks. It's like the lawyers are going to get involved, and what's the best case scenario in this? The hotel says, whoopsies, we'll sell you that part of the property, and Tim Arnold does another fundraiser, and we call it good. I don't know at this point. Well, the surveyor, whoever he contracted has got to have some type of insurance. It's going to have to be the first one to pay the bill. but it could turn into a nightmare where they they request him to tear down eight foot of his building i i think that's pretty unlikely that would be unlikely to happen mainly because that would also affect their like you don't want well you don't want a damaged building next to where you're going to build your hotel yeah the optics the optics look bad and so you know so i i'm sure something will happen but it still is just you know it it it really depends on the size of the check that's how it is yeah well and man i sure hope the the surf because that's the other problem too is the insurance the surveyors depending on their insurance can only cover up to so much money and then and then the pinball hall of fame might be liable after that as well i mean it it opens up so many cans of worms it's just yeah it's just a nightmare but i feel for the hotel does also doesn't want a bankrupt, derelict building next to them too. True. Correct. There is something to say, hey, we're at the hotel and by the way, there's a pretty awesome thing for kids next door so you can go gamble at our place while the kids are playing pinball.
    73:36
    I'm just looking at this from a pragmatic standpoint to say what's in the best interest of the hotel too. yeah so i i think they'll money some money will exchange hands and they'll move on and those those strip properties and 8v does sound like a lot and i totally agree however it's those properties are almost like a half mile they are crazy big yeah so yeah you get lost in casino uh caesar's palace and you you end up some back door you're like i didn't what is this So it's this rabbit hole. So, yeah. I think as long as it doesn't really affect their casino real estate, the gaming floor, it's probably something they can come to an agreement on. No, I agree.
    74:22
    Well, I'm going to say it's time to wrap it up. I mean, we've been going at it for a little over an hour and 10, 15 minutes. Oh, the other problem, too, the listener hasn't heard, but we, for some odd reason, our recording site's just like, boom, you're done. they keep stopping and it's like yeah we're gonna start again even they got bored so the what the website's like i'm done i'm done but no we appreciate you coming on colin it was fantastic to meet you um it was really cool that you came through utah and even diverted your your vacation plan to come down to little dinosaur land i hope you enjoyed the wall of dinosaur bones um we did and uh seriously if you're ever back in utah there's an airport right here in town you can fly right in we'll we'll make you dinner and everything so round trip tickets are not bad uh that's how i'm getting to expo i'm just flying right out of town so anyhow yeah you guys are gonna have fun there i'd uh i i would like to go but yeah it's that it's halloween right yeah Yeah, that actually, yeah, I'm using some dad, saved up dad credit because I have two kids that are, it's their birthday that weekend. So, and one of them is actually on Halloween. You're going to be in the hole for a long time. That's okay. You're going to hear this and start with, you remember that time you left for the handball convention on Halloween? I'll say, you remember how I took you to Hawaii a month before?
    75:59
    Yeah. Oh. Anyway. The old tip for tap. Anywho. Well, Colin, if anyone wants to get a hold of you, how do you want them to contact you? Or you can be like Elwin and just be like, no, I don't.
    76:15
    Yeah, well, I guess they can get a hold of me via, I don't know, look me up on Facebook, I guess. They can message me that way. I don't want people emailing my email address. Go to Facebook and see your massive trophy from 2017.
    76:35
    But, yeah, no, I'm not here to – I don't have any podcast or website or anything like that. I just like hanging out and playing pinball. It sounds like the best way to contact you is to go up and shake your hand at Texas Pinball Festival. There you go. Yeah, they can do that. It's always a crazy weekend of I don't remember half of the people that I meet because there's just so many people to meet and so much that has to be done in a short period of time. But, yeah, other than that, if people are coming through the Austin, Texas area, they can give me a shout out. I'd love to meet up with people at the various locations. I've got to get a couple more of my pins fixed up before I have a bunch of people over at my house because I've got too many of my very limited collection are in states of disrepair, so I've got to get them fixed back up.
    77:25
    If you want to contact us, we are at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and now on Twitch. If you want to watch us, we will be jamming out every once in a while. Just make sure you follow us, and it will notify you as soon as we go live. we don't have like a super steady schedule or I don't and so I usually film stream during lunch time so for me it's noon but for I guess the east coast it's usually 2 o'clock in the afternoon but if you want to get a hold of us for a hat we send another hat out to Mr. Dan in Arizona I hope you enjoy that and it's a good looking hat it is it is and so other than that You got anything else for us, Scott? No, I think it's great. Looking forward to the next two weeks, and hopefully the temperature in Utah will get below 100 because we've been in a heat wave right now. Yes, and then I can finally stop working so much.
    78:23
    Yeah, I wish I knew a good air conditioning guy. Oh, hey, Josh. Oh, hey. All right, we'll talk to you in two weeks. Shut up and sit down.
    79:01
    Outro Music