Final Round Pinball Podcast Ep 80: Ding Ding

TL;DR

Episode 80: Jeff Rivera on 12 years of podcasting, pinball community growth, and why podcasters obsess over sales instead of fun.

Summary

Key Claims

• The Pinball Podcast started in 2012, predating both Final Round and other major pinball podcasts

  high confidence · Jeff Rivera stated 'I think it was 2012' when asked when he started The Pinball Podcast

• Pinball has transitioned from being perceived as 'dying' to 'thriving' with significantly larger community and visibility

  high confidence · Jeff Rivera: 'It was always pinball is dying, uh, way back then. And now it's like thriving.'

• All pinball games are significantly more expensive now compared to when The Pinball Podcast started

  high confidence · Jeff Rivera: 'it's a lot more expensive, like on all fronts, old and new. All the games are way more expensive'

• Pinball Brothers' ABBA machine will be produced in limited quantities: 300 Voyage edition and 500 Arrival edition

  medium confidence · Jeff Teolis: 'I think it's 300 of the Voyage edition and 500 of the Arrival edition'

• Salt Lake City pinball weekly tournaments have grown from 10-12 people to over 40 participants

  high confidence · Jeff Rivera: 'We used to have our weekly tournaments, we'd have 10 to 12 people. Now it's not weird for over 40 to show up to the weeklies'

• The core group of competitive pinball players in Salt Lake City is now 10 times larger than it was in the past

  medium confidence · Jeff Rivera: 'I think that was pretty much like the hardcore gathering of pinball dudes...what would be considered the core group of players now is 10 times that size'

• Jessica DiNardo is well-regarded within the pinball community and was instrumental in making TPF 2023 better

  high confidence · Marty and Jeff Teolis both praised her; Marty said: 'every time I think of TPF 2023 I always think of Jessica and how she just made my show so much better'

• The current podcast landscape has shifted from two dominant shows (The Pinball Podcast and Coast to Coast) to dozens of competing podcasts with varied focus

  high confidence · Hosts discussed the fragmentation of the podcast landscape; Jeff Teolis mentioned many shows run 10-20 episodes before ending, with a few survivors

Notable Quotes

• “it's a lot more expensive, like on all fronts, old and new. All the games are way more expensive, but there is so much more of a community now.”

  Jeff Rivera @ early in interview — Directly addresses the core industry dynamic: rising costs offset by community growth and legitimacy

• “It was always pinball is dying, uh, way back then. And now it's like thriving.”

  Jeff Rivera @ early in interview — Captures the narrative arc of pinball's resurgence over the past 12 years

• “why are podcasters obsessed about it? Why do they care about whether a game will sell or not when the grassroots question is simply: did you have fun playing the game?”

  Jeff Teolis @ mid-episode — Central criticism of current pinball podcast culture; articulates a fundamental value disconnect

• “It's tribalism. Like that is seeped into society so deeply and into pinball because pinball kind of mirrors society as well”

  Marty (co-host) @ mid-episode — Sociological analysis of why podcast culture fixates on game success/failure predictions

• “I defaulted expect it's going to be good until I'm proven otherwise... I do want to get some time on it. Every game to me, I just kind of default expect it's going to be good until I'm proven otherwise.”

  Jeff Rivera @ when discussing ABBA — Represents a healthier, more optimistic approach to new releases opposed to the negativity bias the hosts critique

• “My first take on it was, if someone had told me that that was designed by John Borg, I would have gone, yep, absolutely, accepted it. Because it just, it looks like a Borg design.”

  Jeff Teolis @ ABBA discussion — Demonstrates how design philosophy and designer pedigree influence first impressions of games

• “We used to have our weekly tournaments, we'd have 10 to 12 people. Now it's not weird for over 40 to show up to the weeklies... Salt Lake City is doing pretty well as far as bringing new players in but also new collectors and new venues”

  Jeff Rivera — Concrete evidence of exponential growth in regional pinball scenes

Entities

Signals

• ?

  business_signal: Podcast landscape has fragmented from two dominant shows (The Pinball Podcast and Coast to Coast) to dozens of competing shows; average run is 10-20 episodes with some enduring shows lasting 7-8+ years

  high · Jeff Teolis: 'I bet the average show run is about 10 to 20 episodes and then they kind of roll over to a new...'; Discussion of podcast ecosystem change paralleling broader media fragmentation

• ?

  business_signal: Pinball Brothers ABBA limited production strategy: 300 Voyage edition and 500 Arrival edition (800 total)

  medium · Jeff Teolis: 'I think it's 300 of the Voyage edition and 500 of the Arrival edition. They'll sell it.'

• ?

  event_signal: Jeff Teolis organizing 'The Beast in Buffalo' event at Pocketeer Billiards in Buffalo, New York; nearly sold out tickets on day one of sale

  high · Jeff Teolis: 'Today is the day I put on sale tickets for an event I'm running called The Beast in Buffalo...we almost sold out on day one'

• ?

  community_signal: Exponential growth in Salt Lake City pinball scene: weekly tournaments grew from 10-12 to 40+ participants; core competitive group is now 10x larger; multiple leagues and collector home leagues established

  high · Jeff Rivera: 'We used to have our weekly tournaments, we'd have 10 to 12 people. Now it's not weird for over 40 to show up to the weeklies'; 'what would be considered the core group of players now is 10 times that size'

• ~

  sentiment_shift: Pre-release negativity about ABBA from parts of the pinball podcast community, but hosts and Jeff Rivera expect strong sales and success based on gameplay fundamentals and designer pedigree