Triple Drain discusses Bond 60th design and pricing amid community backlash; Stern/American Pinball announcements leak.
Summary
Triple Drain Podcast Episode 32 features Joel, Tom, and Travis discussing recent pinball news, primarily Bond 60th's official reveal stream hosted by Jack Danger on Dead Flip, which featured Keith Owen, a programmer, and George Gomez. The hosts analyze Bond 60th's design philosophy (short ball times, co-op gameplay, throwback to older single-level pins), defend its $20k+ price point against community criticism, and briefly mention upcoming announcements from Stern (Foo Fighters) and American Pinball (Galactic Tank Force) that broke during recording. The episode opens with discussion of their new video intro created by Brad Johansson of Alter Creative Media.
Key Claims
Bond 60th ships with version 1.03 and Co-op mode built in; game is essentially complete feature-wise
high confidence · Joel citing information from the Dead Flip reveal stream with Jack Danger
Bond 60th's disc mech is completely re-engineered with counterbalance and bearing system, not reused from Avengers
high confidence · Joel reporting from Dead Flip stream commentary by designers
The Bond licensor specifically requested an older pin design; Stern had to pitch Cornerstone Bond as an alternative
medium confidence · Joel's interpretation of licensing dynamics based on reveal stream discussion
Cornerstone Bond now allows mode stacking via software update, with prioritization to prevent licensor-prohibited mixing of movie video assets
high confidence · Joel describing recent Cornerstone code update details
George Gomez had not played Fish Tales in over 20 years before the Dead Flip stream
high confidence · Joel discussing Dead Flip stream where Gomez played multiple games including Fish Tales
Stern released Foo Fighters announcement trailer immediately after Triple Drain finished recording on Friday morning
high confidence · Joel's editor's note at episode start
American Pinball released a Galactic Tank Force teaser trailer the day after Stern's Foo Fighters announcement
high confidence · Joel's editor's note describing the timing of announcements
Notable Quotes
“somebody's got to drive the bus and so I'm driving and I get two people in the back complaining the whole time”
Joel@ 2:21 — Sets tone for the banter about podcast dynamics and introduces the 'Who is driving this bus' concept from episode title
“the goal of the pin is it's brutal It's Gonna Keep your ball time short regardless of who you are as a player um and you know try to try to conquer it together as a group in in Co-op”
Joel@ 14:37 — Articulates the core design philosophy of Bond 60th that differentiates it from modern competitive depth-focused designs
“well you guys are lucky that you haven't had to deal with video assets because then you haven't been you know wrapped up with the licenser”
George Gomez (reported by Joel)@ 16:08 — Explains technical and licensing constraints on Bond-themed games that informed design decisions
“this pin was made specifically for the licensor because apparently the licensor this is what the licenser requested first they wanted an older pin”
Joel@ 24:57 — Provides licensing context for why Bond 60th looks different from typical modern Stern releases
“would you rather have a twenty thousand dollar pin that looks really fun or would you rather have another Supreme that's 20 plus thousand dollars that just looks boring as all get out”
Travis@ 26:03 — Reframes the pricing criticism by comparing Bond 60th to other high-end releases
“I just want to play something different”
Tom — Explains Tom's motivation for potentially acquiring Bond 60th despite the cost
announcement: Stern released official Foo Fighters pinball machine announcement trailer during Triple Drain recording session
high · Joel's editor's note: 'that's when Stern released the Foo Fighters uh announcement trailer' and 'my phone starts blowing up'
?
announcement: American Pinball released Galactic Tank Force teaser trailer the day after Stern's Foo Fighters announcement
high · Joel's editor's note describing American Pinball's 'little uh um Galactic tank force uh kind of trailer' with IP name only visible at bottom
?
code_update: Cornerstone Bond received recent software update enabling mode stacking with intelligent video asset prioritization to comply with licensor constraints
high · Joel: 'they did do a big update a big code update recently where now they allowed mode stacking' with technical details about video asset management
?
design_innovation: Bond 60th features completely re-engineered disc mech with counterbalance and bearing system designed to settle in consistent safe position without blocking other shots
high · Joel: 'they re-engineered the whole thing and apparently it is counterbalanced in a way it has some sort of bearing in it where it will it'll settle itself down in the same position every time'
?
gameplay_signal: Bond 60th prioritizes short ball times, co-op social play, and throwback single-level layout over deep competitive modes and video assets
high · Joel: 'the goal of the pin is it's brutal It's Gonna Keep your ball time short regardless of who you are as a player' and emphasis on co-op 'social fun let's play This Together Vibe'
Topics
Bond 60th design philosophy and mechanicsprimaryBond 60th pricing and community backlashprimaryLicensing constraints on James Bond pinball gamesprimaryUpcoming machine announcements (Foo Fighters, Galactic Tank Force)primaryPodcast production and community engagementsecondaryCompetitive vs casual gameplay designsecondaryPinball collecting and investment valuesecondaryManufacturing costs and business models in pinballsecondary
Sentiment
mixed(0.62)— Generally positive toward Bond 60th's gameplay design and George Gomez's involvement, with acknowledgment of legitimate community criticism about pricing. Hosts defend the game and manufacturer business decisions while recognizing accessibility concerns. Some frustration with online community dismissiveness of positive coverage.
Transcript
youtube_auto_sub · $0.000
all right well quick editors note we recorded this episode on Friday morning and we finished recording literally shut everything down put away all the streaming rig and everything and then all of a sudden my phone starts blowing up and uh that's when Stern released the Foo Fighters uh announcement trailer so Tom and Travis and I were like what what do we what can we do and I'm like I gotta go pick up my kids do we do we record something real quick um and then so we thought about recording something uh to add on and then the very next day American pinball comes out with their little uh um Galactic tank force uh kind of trailer little thing and it doesn't say Galactic tank force anywhere except for the very bottom of the screen um and so we're just like what's what I I don't know so we thought about recording you know or a little bit more to add to it but then we realized Tuesday is when the actual reveal is going to come out so that'll even be outdated so long story short when we recorded this we had we didn't know officially about Foo Fighters we didn't know officially about Galactic tank force so you know good timing but hey it was still a fun episode still a lot of speculating so enjoy it and um yeah we will definitely share more thoughts on it once the official reveals come out so all right enjoy the episode network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right Tom are you ready uh yes but does anybody have five bucks what five dollars nothing oh okay uh Travis are you ready Tom I don't have five dollars but have you ever wondered why we don't get to start the intros for this podcast I've never wondered that I know you know Tom can we just outro a second ago we were like Joel why can't we do the intro and he like just ignored it and just started it hey Travis if you want to if you want to edit the podcast you're welcome to start the intro wasn't Joel like this is my show damn it that's not do what I wanted at all somebody's got to drive the bus and so I'm driving and I get two people in the back complaining the whole time and that's fine I'm ready I'm ready perfect thank god well buckle up everybody because we have a video intro so here we go triple drink triple train [Music] wait wait wait Joel Joel yeah I opened up my uh my DJ award yes [Laughter] batteries and they're like hanging out I don't know what happened well if anybody's watching this on YouTube uh you guys saw we have a video intro we have a video intro um what's really cool about that is we actually had a guy that reached out to us when I made the comment and he said I'd love to make this and I said great that's awesome and so I gave that guy all the stuff that that was needed to make it the song and and everything he needed to potentially make that well fast forward a week uh over the weekend happens and we just get an email from a guy and this guy's name is Brad Johansson hopefully I'm saying that right um and he just said hey I put this together I hope you guys enjoy it and it wasn't the original guy it was just a guy who said who just did it he just made us a video intro and um we were blown away we were blown away so I actually reached back out to the first guy and said I don't know if you've started this or not but we had another person that that did this and so the first guy is actually going to make us a Tom talks video so everybody be ready for that but yes we were we were super impressed with that I had a few comments back and forth he changed just one or two Cod there he goes and Travis is already gone um he changed one or two minor things but overall uh Brad put that together entirely on his own and um he actually does uh he does video like that's his job so he actually has a a company so it's alter Creative Media they're based out of Rochester he does a bunch of different stuff but he'd love to do more pinball stuff so if anybody needs any sort of video done um whether you're in pinball or out of pinball or whatever feel free to reach out to Brad I'll put his um his email address it's altercreativemedia.com I will put that in our um in our show notes so you can check him out but um Brad thank you very much thank you for that and I'm excited to continue to play that for many many times so if you happen to be driving the car and listening to it on the audio podcast go watch the Youtube video just for the intro because we really really had a good time with it and then click off of it don't watch the rest yeah you can stop after that that's fine yeah just we just need the initial view that's all we need hey it's Tom where do you think our Awards and trophies should go I don't know I was going to put mine on my shoulder but yeah hey Joel Joel where are you gonna put your Awards and trophies at uh uh you mean this one this one right here this uh this streaming award that I got last year what is that [ __ ] yeah damn it what the hell this is the runner-up have you literally been holding that that's just been sitting here no no say that's the runner-up trophy it's runner-up it's Runner oh yeah what's it like to get something like yeah this isn't a runner-up trophy Joel yeah I actually just thought of that because I knew I knew you wanted to rub it in my face that yes but no that's uh that's my one pinball related award that's the one thing I have but um can you turn it on the pinball degenerate sword does it light up I tried is it broken he got the most degenerate score award yep hey people that don't know what was that score Travis you know what it was double zero and I had to work my ass off for this award I mean legitimately think about it Tom okay all Joel had to do is like just show up I mean I mean you know you and Carl you guys just roll out of bed and it's fine the stream works it does itself essentially let's just face facts here I I had to legitimately score zero points once three times yep in a world championship against three of the best players in the world and give up a full pinball in order to win this so you know sacrifice ball one I mean yeah I'm not I don't want to bragums or something no randos me and three randos in the pinball tournament yep no they're pretty good it's always pretty good escher's pretty good and I guess yeah L1 he's okay he's done a little bit yep um yeah shout out to Keith Owen he's had a big week uh I mean first time I mean he did a stream of a game that he made no big deal we're gonna talk about a little bit but even bigger week he actually played at a tournament up at District 82 and we happened to notice on day one more than one tournament Joel I know I know I'm making light of it Tom I'm making I'm making a I'm making light of it but he um he wore day one he wore triple drain shirt so I got mine on Tom's got his on Travis is a bum I have a house okay and just staring at a tree but no I'm here I'm here with Joel I'm Tom I love you thank you so much I was just gonna say I always get left out no no you never do like we noticed you have a new mic back there yeah first off before we get in the mic the you gotta you got a trophy there too what is that one yeah player to uh Grand Champion trophy oh I forgot it was before the podcast it's chewy yeah I think that's awesome yes and as Travis was pointing out you got a new mic for your streaming rig I see back there you yeah I'm trying it out okay so are you going for like a 1925 now like in your streams like black and white baby bottles you're gonna wear like a suit like a business suit when you play the blue baby bottle Mike is recorded by George with Don't Panic flip that's his current mic that he's he's testing so good streamer it's called a what so we're 13 minutes into the podcast and we have not talked about quality actual pinball machine this is quality content and we got to make fun of you we've proved you can't read so that's that's excellent uh and you've only ripped on me like three times so yeah I just I don't it's not ripping I'm just pointing out the obvious that's all it is it's just just pointing out the obvious you're a truth teller yes well hey I applaud you your once again your room is continuing to look better and better so it's evolving no it's gonna go on the back I think you should get a Stern Banner for the back all right so Monica mentioned that because I I'm I mean I didn't do this Monica did that in that but she mentioned about getting a banner back here and I was just like I don't know wouldn't that like be too much right here what about you gotta have something well what about The Infinity Gauntlet I have a big sculpture I want to put it back there but then you can't see it so I actually have a life yes you're illuminating your floor really well well it creates a Halo oh Halo all right we got pinball news to talk about don't we okay yes yes okay so we'll just dive straight into um yeah we'll just drive slow dive straight into it straight into we haven't been Meandering after 15 minutes we're gonna dive right into it yeah um Bond 60th we actually had the official Bond 60th stream um Jack danger did that on dead flip you can see it on YouTube or on his twitch um and what was really cool was he had Keith Owen he had Mark I don't know his last the gazpachio or Zuckerberg no not Zuckerberg it was Mark whatever I'm sorry Mark if you happen to be listening highly doubt it but if you are I'm very sorry that I forgot your last name but the guy who programmed the game uh was on there and then George Gomez George Gomez showed up and streamed with him as well so I will tell you it was a very entertaining stream there was some beer involved um it was just cool to see everybody have a good time all hell breaks loose once yeah so it's drinking beer isn't it the nacho that's the notch yes yeah okay yes so did me do fish tales he did he did a lot of games um he hadn't done a game in like 20 plus years since fishtails yeah there you go yeah so he I did enjoy the beer though during the gameplay well it was cool to see like um like Keith Owen had mentioned that you can backhand the the inline drop Targets on the right and uh Gomez was trapped up and Keith is like George you can vacuum it just real quick and just like to see Keith like coaching and then George hit it and then to see Keith like the proud parent like yeah well did you see what happened though did you see what happened with that what why he got so excited because I even told Keith I was like I think this is the most excited like you've won World Championships you've done all that I've never seen you this excited yeah yeah so what happened was Gomez Hit the first in line and then it just kept going and hit the next one oh so it's like you could like double up a double hit right which was actually pretty dope you don't see that too often and just seeing that actually happen I guess just the way that I don't know if it was intended I'm sure Dublin will tell somebody whether or not it was but just the way that I guess the poster at and the way it was hit it just had just the perfect inertia or the momentum just to yeah go through and then that's when you saw Elwyn like raise his hands up in the air and I was like he was pumped that's like his arms do not go above his shoulders that's impossible so yeah you're right he was pumped and it was I will just say um I will say My overall takeaway is it just seemed like it was a fun social vibe that I got from that pin and I think the goal of the pin is just short ball times and it be you know this is a game that you want to play with other people you want to do it collectively um there's Co-op built in into the game like it's shipping it's shipping with version 1.03 like it's a it's it's a done game it's pretty much finished he did say on the on during the stream that there will be more voice call outs added to the game but like code wise depth wise asset why everything like it's a complete game and it's right ready to go but it's shipped with Co-op and it's just very it gives off a very social fun let's play This Together Vibe compared to most modern pins where I remember Keith Owen during the um during the Godzilla stream like he stepped up and just like blew up the game you know and it's when you're watching somebody on a reveal stream play a game for 45 minutes you know just like blowing up the game I mean that's cool to see that there's that type of depth but that wasn't the goal of this pin the goal of this pin is it's brutal It's Gonna Keep your ball time short regardless of who you are as a player um and you know try to try to do your best try to conquer it together as a group in in Co-op so so Tom I know I think you are considering getting one of these pins so I'm assuming you were looking at it with somewhat of a critical eye what were your main takeaways or thoughts watching the Stream uh I liked it but okay yeah so that's it thanks to everybody for joining us what did you see yeah what was it that you yeah what stood out I just I just like how it's got a modern Vibe but it's more of a throwback to older games yeah so and I I like the brutality of it um you know I I like the fact that I don't have to watch Neil play it for 45 minutes before I get a chance to play uh there's some of that um I don't know I think I think it's cool I I the only thing I would I wish there was a like a little bit more video assets I guess you know they if they throw that into LCD I think it'd be perfect um but I I I I want to try it yeah well that's the video asset question came up and George did make a comment which he basically said he goes well you guys are lucky that you haven't had to deal with video assets because then you haven't been you know wrapped up with the licenser and so that comment was kind of a I I don't think I don't think video assets are happening yeah I I would imagine that's probably the biggest problem with the Cornerstone Bond game you know and getting stuff done with that um I mean but you know I I can I can live without it I guess sure and I and I think just a quick side note on the cornerstone game they did do a big update a big code update recently where now they allowed mode stacking and so I know I had voiced before and I'd heard this before that the bond licensor is super particular where they want to keep everything everything movie specific so if you start a mode that's in one movie they don't want to see video clips of another movie like intermingling like they wanted they wanted to keep everything separate so I remember when they said that on the cornerstone it was like well how in the world are they going to do that on the 60th if there's all these different movies involved and what we've come to find out is the way they're doing it on the cornerstone is if you start let's say you start a q mode and then you start a multiball well it prioritizes the multiball so it's showing all the video assets of the multiball but now you just have a little logo in the bottom showing that you still have the Q mode running with like a tally bar on the shots for those so it's no longer going to show any audio or video from the Q mode so they are having to make very bold creative decisions on what prioritizes what because they can't have things intermix and so I don't I don't fault them for for just avoiding it entirely I'd like to talk now Joel go yes go for it yes um you know it'd be nice if they did something like Batman 66 which is uh where you could actually press the lockdown bar button and it would flip between the actual moats so you could see the video assets for that as well as the shots that's a really so first off bold strategy on the air horn that worked incredibly well you know traffic Travis has been doing the hand for a long time but the air horn may be more effective but I did not know that and that's that's actually a really good that's not an air horn you idiot um [Laughter] the dust you just blow your mic and blow everybody's eardrums out to get my attention gee you're an idiot um no that's actually I did not realize that Tom and you know what that's actually it's really a good feature of Batman 66 I think and to incorporate that into the bond software probably won't happen but it would be a it's a nice thought I like it though but remember that action button is still being reserved for your multiplier so you'd have to find a way to I think the action button that's the whole point of the action button is to enable your remote so they'd have to find a way but I like it if Raymond Davidson and Tim Sexton can make a button do multiple things somebody else can TB baby but no good point good point but I don't know Travis you've been quiet this is weird I just been listening Tom's air horn broke me last time it was like the zipper or duck call thing going on from the top or no yeah the top or it was my my games update oh yeah they were updating um so yeah Bond 60. I guess we're doing impressions still of it or seeing the gameplay or whatever or just thoughts what else do you think we're doing I mean talk Tom broke me I still got tears in my eyes Okay so anyways like I personally I'm excited for the game the theme is what it is I'm not a bond fan I've only seen one my wife wants to watch the Daniel Craig Bond so I'm like we'll get around to it eventually but I am very excited about this layout because I've talked about this now for a couple of years now that I really wish that manufacturers would put out old school type fill filling pins you know to where it's just single level use the modern flippers give it a different fill and that's why I really enjoyed beetles because it was just that so seeing this yeah like I'm just really excited about it because one it has a shot that I really do like and the figure eight shot yeah and we've talked about that before that even like because when the three of us talked about homebrews and stuff like that something that'd be fun that type of shot came up just going down the left side so seeing that in an actual pin right now for me that's exciting because I I just I love the idea that shot and the fact that there's two spinners on it to I mean that's pretty dope because you can go from either the left side like on the bottom or you could just go up on the top and then I love the inline drops like I love those on TNA and the fact that they're here now on a Stern I'm excited about that like those those two things I really do like and then I guess we got the saw I assume that this is the shot that Gomez was talking about that he hadn't seen before where you can hit the spinner up the middle and then it comes back down the right side to the right flipper and then you just kind of like one time the figure eight was the shot that Gomez was referring to but the Figure Eight's been done before yeah but I just I don't think he knew that that was the game I mean Diamond lady is what everybody like but even sure because well I mean even Owen made a comment that he had forgotten about Diamond lady so when the game came out and people were like oh the figure eight looks like diamond lady even no one himself was like oh you're right I totally forgot about that you know I assume the shot that I've never seen before personally okay is the shot that's right up the middle then you one time it into a figure eight and it comes back down and then in theory you could just one time it again into the inline drops I mean there's there's a lot of different you can flowing shots there yeah I mean yeah yeah and I'm also I'm curious about the uh the Hat disc thing I mean we've talked about this before I'm not really a fan of disc in general there but something about this one just seemed different compared to Avengers and I don't know if the mech itself is very different and I can't quite put my finger on it maybe somebody out there or maybe you guys know we talked about it okay they did so what what is different about it because visually it just if it seemed different watching it in play they re-engineered the whole thing and apparently it is counterbalanced in a way it has some sort of bearing in it where it will it'll settle itself down in the same position every time and so the the idea there is if you had two posts like a um theater of magic or that that's too much that that left post would have then interfered with your middle shot so they wanted to make sure it's only one post and it always settles down on the right side so that you still it's it doesn't block your shots anywhere on the left so it's okay where it settles is a is a safe spot to not interfere with other shots but yet it always settles in a good position that you can rip it that's what I was wondering because it didn't seem like there was much drift on it I think you would see with other pins like oh and Avengers one of the things that you can do is just machine gun your flippers to set the disc in a certain spot that you want there you go for competitive players there if you want to do something like that but it didn't seem like you could do something like that with this pin at least not on the stream that we watched no apparently that's where they said that on stream that they're like oh yeah people are like oh it's just the Avengers disc as in they thought they reused the mac and they're like if you only knew the amount of time and hours we invested in that Mech to make it spin the way it does and then settle itself back the way it does it's it is a completely new Mech um so I yeah I think it's a cool Mech I it is it was interesting it's not surprising but like so many people on Facebook not so many but like to see so many people on Facebook or pinside afterwards be like this is a joke you know this is not twenty thousand dollars worth of a game there's no assets there's no this there's no that is this what Stern's doing blah blah blah and I get it and it's weird reading all these comments of they just feel like apparently we as podcasters were just Fanboys and cheerleaders we only talk about the positive things and just build up all these companies like we need to be real you know um I to me I'm sorry but I just I have a realistic expectation of what this pin is this pin was made specifically for the licensor because apparently the licensor this is what the licenser requested first they wanted an older pin so it's almost like Stern had to talk him into allowing them to do the Cornerstone so this was always what they wanted they wanted an older pin and bond collectors are a different breed there are there's a ton of money in the bond collecting world and so this pin was designed for them and we as pinball people are just lucky to try to you know kind of be a part of it and I think it's it's a I mean I get it it's super expensive but they made they made the pin that the licenser wanted and I'm sorry and I feel bad you know for the pinball fans that that wish this was super accessible and they would be on location everywhere and you could buy them for eight thousand dollars great but that's not from a business standpoint that's that wasn't what was asked that's what that's not what they built and so they built what the license are requested so I don't know if we could just accept that great let's move on let's move forward and actually look at what it is it looks like it's a really fun pin would you rather have a twenty thousand dollar pin that looks really fun or would you rather have another Supreme that's 20 plus thousand dollars that just looks boring as all get out well and plus two let's just get out the common misconception here it's everybody labels it a twenty thousand dollar pin because that's what Stern sold it at yeah the pin can be sold for whatever anybody wants to sell it so just because you you know what I mean somebody could store it for fifty thousand they wanted to somebody could sell it for a dollar you know I mean there's just they could sell it for whatever they want to well if anything Neil McRae bought all of them yeah all of them in Europe so you need to reach out to Neil and Neil can sell them for whatever he wants but here's here's my thing it's it's like at the end of the day why does the price matter for one particular pen that's in this industry because there's many different options and the reality is is that we very much and I'll say this as somebody that works for a dealer we all are very much experiencing a first world problem right now right to where there's people that will readily buy a 10 12 000 Le there's people that will buy a seven thousand dollar Pro and then all of a sudden this pins too much okay well you know the vast majority of people that play Pinball on location seven thousand dollars is too much for them you know and we hear that all the time so there's just different levels to it and simple thing is is that if you have the money and you want to play this pin you want it then get it and enjoy it if you don't then it's like I'm sorry like there's lots of stuff I would like to get you know I would like to have a 10 million dollar house but I can't do that you know what I mean so there's just different levels to it and I mean and I've seen people just posting up oh this is a cash grab this is this this is that and I just want to say of course it is like what what manufacturer out there is trying to not turn a profit and pay their employees they have so much overhead like how else do you guys think that this game gets out from any manufacturer right any game that gets out from any manufacturer they have to pay for the license they have to pay for raw materials they have to pay for people's time to actually concept the game engineer the game to come up with software to come up with design then they got to pay people to actually like I don't know build the game you know and I mean there's just so much that goes into running a business that I think a lot of people forget about that it's not just like five people coming up with these ideas and then just putting it all together in a garage and putting it out I mean there's just so much so many things going at scale and I mean and the reality is too is a lot of the times when you know I've had people contact me about the price too and these are the same people that have like five to eight cars in their garage you know just like I like I was talking to you guys about or they collect like a bunch of old bourbon and whiskey stuff where okay it's all right to have a three thousand dollar bottle of bourbon in your you know you know what I mean but all of a sudden 15 20 25 Grand it's it's too far so what I'm saying is is we all have our different Hobbies right that all intermingle we all have our different ways that we like to spend our money and hey it's okay like you can still be mad about the price that's perfectly fine that's perfectly valid but at the same time it's like it is what it is like this is just simply a business and luckily this will not be the only game that Stern puts out all year long it just won't and this won't be the only pinball game available from anybody in the industry yeah and I I get that and that's I think it's just Keith Owen makes such an amazing game and the game looks really fun I think everybody sees that I think the game looks really fun and so every Everybody Just wishes they could play it or have it and unfortunately it's gonna be this is gonna be uh one of those games that's going to be harder to come around or come come across or have the ability to play I know if I have a chance to borrow one to stream it for flipping out I know multiple people that like want to come over I could just say oh you're gonna have one for a few weeks like please let me come like they want they want their chance to get their hands on it and um I don't and I think that's awesome I I don't know I just Tom you are you are seriously thinking about getting one though I mean so it's what is it in your collection what is it you know why what's the thought behind having one I just want to play something different yep so yeah so basically two games are leaving one's coming in so now I have a little room oh there you go you got room for all your friends because you can play co-op and just you know get your butt kicked together it'll be great I don't have any friends you got us Tom I would personally I would want to get the pen personally if it was the right theme okay if this was a theme that I really enjoyed I probably wouldn't have a problem taking my funds my budget for pinball and making room for it like I wouldn't have a problem with that and it's only multiple games just for this one well and again because I in my opinion I think it's going to hold its value after the fact you know it's it's just yeah there's ups and downs in the market but when we look at all things considered that it's a bond 60th Bond fans they they love Bond there's a lot of people that discover pinball for the first time and when they do every like we talked about this every theme is brand new to them right then you got L one behind it l win design so you know it's going to be fun either way and so I mean those things into consideration that's why I would really want the pen and yeah it's just for me it's just the theme is the only thing that stops me from doing it like that's that's literally the only thing from looking for this pin and trying to find it just because I I want a modern pen that is a single layout game that's fun to rip Spinners it's fun to do I mean yeah again we could talk about price all day long but the prices they're all over the place anyways I mean there's we see we see everything every day like Bally Williams pins you see those for over 10 grand now MSRP on those were like 3500 you know so it's like that's just the way it is there's just Ebbs and flows to it and just like you mentioned Joel they're gonna be out there at some point somebody will be able to play it like I think I heard that there's one that's coming to tpf I've heard that from a couple people and I think they even mentioned that on the dead flip stream as well and you're I've heard of other places on location are going to have this pin here or on their location so I mean I know it's going to be out in California I think it's going to be somewhere in New York somewhere in Pennsylvania from what I've heard so it it's going to be out there so if you want a chance to play it like I think people will be able to play this I don't think it'll be as hard to find it that people think now when it's at a show yeah yeah you're going to be waiting in line for a little while but you know you'll still have a chance to play it that's why we go to shows anyways right well there'll be one at Tom's house too but I don't know I will um just to wrap up the 60th conversation then I mean I I once once we actually get some hands-on experience we'll probably dive a little deeper into it but I I would just say my takeaway coming coming away from the stream the game looks fun the game looks fun um I I think it shoots really well there was no doubt but like actually seeing people play it it's not like the shots only look good during the promo video or only look good because Keith elwin can hit the shots like all four people were hitting shots and made it look really enjoyable um and to see them kind of attack it in different ways you know they they did an entire Co-op game where they were just trying to get through all the villain modes then they did an entire another Co-op game where they were just trying to get through all the gadgets and like having a simplistic layout but actually have complexity to the rules is really exciting and and from the scoring standpoint I'm assuming you guys were salivating over tournament strats and whatnot because you know you go through an in lane and the opposite Spinners lit for super spinner and and all the point answer in bonus so you better not tilt and just this has some it says oh that actually brings up a really good point there was a shush there was a shush during the stream and we can make one real quick comment about that but yes Jack danger pointed out something that Keith Owen does in his designs and basically what he pointed out was so we're just gonna re-pointed out Well everybody's seen it but I think it's a really good I had not thought about it and and well all we'll say is is Keith does some stuff with his slings he moves his slings back and that's all we're gonna say about it yeah which is but I like and there goes Travis Travis I'm happy I'm I'm happy to to not be part of this combo no I just I had not thought about I had not thought about that and I just he you haven't actually like looked at your Godzilla no I hate it but I didn't I didn't realize why why that matters like why moving the slings out matters and that's what Keith actually mentioned is he said when you move the slings out you have way more control with the flippers I had not put that together I thought it was like well maybe he doesn't want you to be able to post pass easily maybe you could say maybe it's a challenge shocked he did not put it together yes this makes it easier for you to handle the ball in a flipper we are different people our skill levels are very different oh that reminds me I don't want to interrupt too much Joel but we do need to plug ape flips YouTube video of your absolute clinic on Deadpool and flipper skills so you guys looked that out that was quite a while ago if you haven't seen it go to Abe flips he's a great content creator he just happened to use some of my content to make a very educational video which I endorse because it's hilarious yeah but yeah no that I just that's something and I get it that if that's Keith's thing you know you know to see all other designers start to do that but it's just I had not put two and two together what's the advantage of moving these things that way he's saying you get way more flipper control sure you lose the ability to post transfer but you get way like it seems to make sense now why Godzilla I seem to be way more in control than other games I don't know I thought that was really interesting keep in mind too one of the other design aspects of it as well that if you do something that doesn't allow or I guess close passing or anything like that then you have to be able to find a way to get the ball back to the other flippers so that's where the flow of shots come okay like a return shot from either a spinner that will come back down in orbit to a catch or maybe another ramp or something like that so that's all things to consider as well because it just it all meshes together really well sure and that's really the for me personally just playing elwin pins that's the secret sauce to it right there that it gives you a reason you have a reason to hit every shot in the game right and then you're able to basically be under control for as much as possible and for some people that does lead to longer ball times and then others it might not you know I I we we have people that contact us all the time about Godzilla that they actually think that the game's too hard for them and it's on default settings right so there's still a lot of casuals out there you know it's just the same way I told you guys about the uh the rush casual that I heard from that's played thousands of games and hasn't broken 750 million yet so you know there's there's just that's the way it is not everybody can be a world-class player like Joel Just crushing games all the time so yeah I think people have fun in their different ways which is awesome about it yeah yeah well I don't know I thought that was really interesting but um the last thing what I was going to say about Bond 60th is um my brother and my brother-in-law and I we actually went out to tappers it's it's a it's an arcade bar downtown Indy and they have like 20 plus pins and we played pinball for like two hours all the modern stuff they have the cgc games that was the main reason I went because I wanted to put more time on Medieval Madness and Monster Bash and attack from Mars just to like compare them to Cactus Canyon but we played for like two plus hours came home it was late and I was surprised but they're like hey you want to go you want to go play some more pinball and so we actually came down here and started playing some of the games and my brother-in-law goes man I miss TNA and I will tell you like after playing all these modern games for Two Plus hours I agreed like having TNA single level brutal simplistic game that we could conquer together like that was the change of pace that at that point we wanted and unfortunately we had I don't have it right now because I traded it and that's that reiterated like even in my small collection of four games having something like this a single level game so it may not be Bond 60th but TNA is a good example um Beatles is a good example or just an older game whether it is an em or just you know an eight ball Deluxe or something like that a fathom like having an older game like that in your collection to just kind of change it up is is really enjoyable and that's that's what I saw I saw that that experience in the bond 60th stream that that is clearly a pin that can just you can yeah it's a good change of pace it's a fun change of pace so Tom in your collection I think it'll be fantastic I think it'll fit in real nice thanks Joel well this is a subtle transition but we want to talk about some of the other manufacturers and some of the rumored titles because because we uh Texas pinball Festival is going to be crazy and the reason I'm saying this is a subtle transition we'll just dive straight in but um single level fun right single level games there is a rumor so cgc the rumor is that Pulp Fiction is going to be shown at Texas pinball festival and the rumor is that Pulp Fiction is a single level game so why all of a sudden is there this big change to ditch ramps and I think it comes back to like it's a change of pace it's a change it is something modern you get the screen you get the lights you get all the modern goodness but yet a Simplicity or a feel of a retro game to kind of break up the the current status of of games I don't know thoughts on license what do you mean driven the licenser wants oh yeah yeah that was the thing I don't know but even still I I'm I kind of like I don't I'm I'm all for it now if this was your dream theme right like and you are a modern collector you know you may want your dream oh your Rush game yeah well okay what about that Tom if if Rush would have come out and Rush was a single level game let's say the code was still incredibly great if there were two flippers and a pop bumper I would have bought a Joel but so it would not you would if you would have seen that Rush was a single level game would you have been disappointed at all like would it have maybe a little bit of the game so you would have thought that but I I think it just comes down to what's the layout like what's the code you know all all these factors is there Rush music actually in the freaking game um I mean would you have gotten a bag of tell Rush maybe if it just had one song in it I definitely have room for that I could hang it on the wall so so Travis if uh if Avengers would have come out and it was a single level game would that have excited you bummed you out what would it I mean no I mean it depends what the design is yeah you know I I enjoy all pinball I have probably I think like eight or nine EMS in my collection and I have a bunch of solid States as well so I try to have a balance just what you were talking about a second ago that way it's not just all moderns all the time I mean going for Wizard modes or trying to play for an hour is fun in times but then sometimes I just want to you know do something else like just work on ribbing a spinner or something like that so that's where Globetrotters or you know playing like a spinner based em game is a lot of fun like Hocus Pocus or something like that so you know if it was on a single level game depending on what the design is I'd probably still be interested in it just because I and Tom can attest to this if you play enough competitive pinball you've seen all kinds of different designs all kinds of different themes all kinds of different ways to approach a pen and oftentimes when you look at some of these old school games like let's take Dolly Parton for instance right you don't have any modes really you know what the theme is but it's not like that there's theme assets on anything that you're doing Beyond hitting a Target that might have a letter that goes to it you know so stuff like that we're we're used to it enough to where I can't speak for Tom I speak for myself that it that part doesn't bother me as much that if the layout's fun and there's some type of integration that way to where at least the artwork is cool or something like that then yeah I can accept that now obviously if if I'm looking at like a Deadpool or Godzilla like behind you it is pretty sweet that there's modes attached to it and then there's some depth to it to where you can attack it in different ways and play for a long time as well so I mean it's just ebb and flow I think it just depends on what people prefer but yeah that'd be my preference if I like the theme like the layout I'll get it because I love single level games I wish I wish people would do more more modern single level games stuff like that I just I enjoy them a lot yeah and I think I think you're your wish is getting answered I mean I I it was interesting on this on the bond sexiest stream to hear Keith because somebody was like what was it like designing a game without ramps and he was like it was fun ramps are easy that's what I mean and we've talked about this before the amount of real estate that a ramp actually takes up is a decent bit because you have to get the ball vertically like it so when you have a single level game you really have to think through every little area of that and the flow that you're potentially going to have and and yeah you really think about on 60th and how many shots there are in that layout like even the captive ball which is the hard shot kind of tucked away like it's way back there but it's just it's a whole nother kind of fun shot that's that's hidden in there while if there was a ramp one ramp would have covered that entire you know inline drop captive ball section and instead we have multiple elements to the game one other one of the really cool things I thought watching the stream was when they got into multiball and got the jackpot lit and it was a timed jackpot right you only had like 20 or 30 seconds to hit it um you don't see that quite a bit nowadays with with modern games so I I just thought that was really neat yeah and I what I think I think this pin I mean shirts the the biggest barrier is going to be can you play one can you find one to play one but once people I think have the opportunity to play it I I think this is such an ode you know a love letter to some of these older games and the way even the scoring is based like I think this is really going to draw people into some of those older games in just the the appeal to a score driven game oh Travis is holding his hand are we talking about Pulp Fiction or bonds we had that and then we did this and then Tom talked about it we're talking I'm saying time traveled we were talking about Bond 60th and I just started guys I'm driving the bus right now it's not straight it's absorbent but just somehow we took a U-turn I must been looking down because now I'm looking down we're still talking about single level games so we've talked about what do we know about Pulp Fiction we don't know anything we don't know anything about it I'll say this it's a movie by Quentin it's okay it's a fun movie so I'll say this about single level games the the thing that I'm most excited about about seeing some of these modern manufacturers tackle single level games whether it was spooky whether apparently it's going to be cgc or whoever else is involved and seeing Stern do it I like the idea of modern mechs being on this game and modern rule sets being on the game as well to where you can have a little bit more to it besides just hitting just a drop Target in scoring points but I like the idea of having just just different designs that people aren't used to like right now I guarantee the vast majority of people that buy Modern pinball machines they've probably never even played a split flipper game to where you have two flippers on the same side like a Harlem Globetrotter Trotters or a paragon or something like that so I mean I would very much I I wish there was this was possible I don't know if it is from a monetary standpoint but I wish it was possible to do this what's the word like more Dynamic designs or more eclectic designs or just something that's just so far different from what we're seeing now and I think you can do that with a single level game like we see it a lot with EMS with either waterfalls or like a jumping jack to where there's no inlanes but there's an outlane with pop bumpers like right there the flippers where you got to fight it back and forth I mean there's different things I think could be done so I'd be excited to see more manufacturers tackle something like that and even if it's not you know it doesn't have to have a ton of assets to it just slap a theme on it that people like you know it could be a c-level theme and I think something like that could possibly work yeah and don't forget Rick and Morty Rick and Morty obviously had that pop bumper down near the flippers right but it had it had ramps though and all that so yeah you have Rick and Morty still Tom it's right next to me yeah I just can't see it I don't mean this is a bad question about like why do you still have it like why why is it remained in your in your life oh my gosh you have a very curated collection so I'm curious I like the game you need to tell us more Tom yeah why do you like I'm not gonna get into an in-depth discussion discussion about it I mean you know like oh it's because of the unique layout that you know it's no it does it has a unique layout it has a tough some a lot of tough shots on it I will help us with the Segway now so since we were talking about official games come the tpf that means that we do know for sure that spooky is going to be bringing Scooby-Doo there we go thank you Tom Graf so I will like speed Keanu Reeves I'm gonna like get away from the will and Joel you could take it back now uh you know what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna slam on the brakes because Tom I actually have one more I'm Rick and Morty questions did you guys see the mod that those guys yeah actually I actually I put in for one no way okay did you see this Travis I did remember what I texted you guys as soon as I saw it no I don't know if I was Scott Danesi yeah [ __ ] well I don't I don't necessarily like this so as a owner this is so what we're mentioning there is a guy and I think he said he's only gonna make like 30 of them but maybe if his demand is huge but one thing I did is currently there's that weird there's not weird but it's the there's not enough screenshot yes but you have three stand-up targets it's Jerry and the the mom and the girl I don't I'm sorry I don't know but but but basically that main section that plastic this guy is making this kind of tunnel ramp that goes it's hidden directly under that plastic and you you lose the Jerry stand up and so the Jerry stand up now becomes that shot so it adds a switch in there so you still get quality for that but it allows you to hit the portal shot really easily or easier you can hit that shot from the bottom right flipper instead of having to hit it with the upper right flipper so it is a lar I mean it is a drastic geometry change to the game but yet it's very well done and hidden like you won't even know really that it's there so Tom what was it I mean you own the game why you said you're putting in for one what was it that you were like yes I'm in on that I I just want to try the mud oh just to see how it yeah just to see how it works versus what I have I mean I can make that shot it's just it's tough but uh yeah I want to see if it's easier and if it uh improves it improves on the gameplay interesting I mean yes as a designer I know um Kevin and Nick on Buffalo pinball they they just actually had this entire conference station but they were talking about Black Knight sort of rage rage and the the sword mod that people have done so that instead of the buck feeding the right flipper it's a buck that feeds this sword ramp to feed the left flipper and there are people that swear that that really drastically changes the game because now it's not so much a right heavy flipper game and it and it does bring up a question it's your game do what you want to it but I also understand we kind of want to respect obviously like what's the designer's intentions you know what do they what do you what what was the designer wanting you to do and I mean we could go down a whole nother Rabbit Trail of well when you change rubbers or change flippers or change this or change that are you now outside the designer's intentions for the game imagine taking a source or moving the entire lock mechanism on it is that a thing who did that it used to be the sharp brothers did it Joel or Overlord Josh Sharpe did it that's crazy but I don't know so okay so interesting I I I'm if you get one Tom I'm very curious to hear how that Mech works so we'll talk about it on the podcast if you let me have I will gladly ask so now I'm going to let Travis floor the floor where it goes room we're catching right back up to speed that was a fantastic transition I don't even remember oh spooky I didn't know which Audrey MP tried it right apparently you hate Joel yeah we do not hate like we're in that shitty ass sequel with the Antonio Cruz ship right now that's what we are Keanu Reeves is he in this movie anymore okay Scooby-Doo yes there's there was there will absolutely be Scooby-Doo at tpf there are Scooby-Doo's on location there are they're on location unfortunately some of the initial feedback I got was almost everyone has had some sort of man you know malfunction mechanically but they've all been small they've been on small things that all the operators have been able to fix get the games back up and running the initial reviews that I've read are people are really impressed with it they like the way it shoots they really like the book The the bookcase flipper they think that's unique and they like the depth of the code that's already there and experiencing the modes um I've heard I've read different things on some people think the game plays a lot harder than the initial stream showed you know they're actually draining the ball while other people are saying no the ball teams seem to be medium to long um so I don't know here I know Tom there's there's a few in your state but yet you're like snowed in by eight feet so I'm assuming you haven't had a chance to play one yet no no okay Travis you haven't I miss you haven't yeah you haven't played one either no but I know a few people that have I mean it so the feedback I've gotten is that it's it they didn't call it a long player but they didn't they said it wasn't really a difficult game either even without Lane posts like all the way up or wherever so I mean because that's what we found out afterwards that apparently during I guess the reveal stream that they had everything set up super easy for whatever reason I guess just to show stuff but that's what somebody had told me before so I guess in general people are liking what they're seeing so far is the feedback that I'm getting that just based on I guess comparing it to other pins that have come out I mean I've heard from people that have played played all the other spookies that they like it a lot more than Ultraman Halloween I mean take that for what it is but then I've heard people say that they like it better than Rick and Morty and that they like it better than Alice Cooper so those are the two games that have done fairly well for spooky also so I mean you know I really like the theme I'm looking forward to playing it so it looks It looks interesting to me I am excited to be able to play it yeah I agree and I I don't know I don't know what's coming um Zach is gonna bring me either Bond 60th or Scooby-Doo that's the next game I'm gonna stream so I'll have hands on one of them but I'm excited but those are both games that I'm very much excited to flip they they look unique obviously we already talked about 60 but I have two friends that have gotten one and they really enjoy it their families really enjoy it that don't play a lot of pinball so that's that's a good sign oh no it just just checked that friends and family box for Joel sorry Keith no bond 60 coming you know I already have already Yes I already have your Cactus Canyon I'm already wrestling with this because you see Joel's mic like just vibrating now he got so excited there geez no calm down Joel I'm struggling man it's this this it's this constant curating of your collection and and tweaking it and trying to get whatever you feel is it because you can actually hit the shots on Cactus Canyon that you like it I don't know what that's what's funny though is everybody says it's an easy game everybody says it's an easy game all right wait wait wait wait before you go on have you beat the game I have I have beat the game and we're still debating whether or not it's an easy game or not it's okay I have beat the game it it's fine fine I I don't even know how to argue it you know I know when it comes to the list of games that I've beaten you still beat the game I mean that's still awesome but we just need your opinion was it was it difficult yeah I think it's it I do think it's difficult there are there are days okay how many other games have you beat we've had this conversation the only games like Toy Story I got to the wizard mode but to beat the game you got to go through it a whole nother time like you did so you didn't beat the game there right so I didn't beat the game no that's like technically that's like me saying I technically had sex with my wife but I was on the other side of the house with all my clothes on just like watching TV and I happened to like go past Cinemax at 11 o'clock like you gotta finish Joel what do you say technically what are we talking about what are we like I was saying I technically beat the game and then you're like oh well I finished the first half but I didn't do the whole okay unfair okay fine fine but no no I am I am genuinely happy for you that you did beat the game because that is exciting when you finish beating a game and I will admit Tom's comment after you told us repeat the game completely broke me but well and we're still talking about it that's what that was the comment no no I mean we're supposed to I think we're supposed to be on tpf no about something you know we we talk but I like this game I did want to ask you though Joel because I didn't follow up with this question and this is a legit question this isn't rip on Joel because I love Joel to death except the times that I hate him but still you said that you went somewhere on location right and we're getting off a tpf so we're already in speed two we're just coming back you're steering right now that's not my fault it's fine we're at the bottom of a lake right now don't worry about it so I'm just sitting in the back of the bus reading a book Tom wants to know this answer though too because I'm genuinely curious because you've gone back and forth about what game you want to add to your collection yeah and you briefly mentioned that you went to on location to play all the other cgc games and then you didn't say anything else about that you came back played more pinball so how did for you Monster Bash attacked from Mars and medieval Medieval Madness stack up to Cactus Canyon well the reason I didn't talk about it is because I know you guys aren't going to like the answer oh you're getting defensive no yeah I know you're not gonna like the answer because uh unfortunately the fourth the one I would put lowest on that list is Attack From Mars attack from Mars and see exactly he doesn't like the answer I knew he wouldn't like the answer oh Tom's leaving welcome listeners this is my solo podcast welcome this is uh just another pinball podcast episode whatever we're on let me share my feelings yeah why is that so I was playing with my brother I was playing with my brother-in-law first off I never realized how far back the shots are on Attack From Mars like all the shots are are very far back um and I don't mean that as an insult but like it just if I'm looking at the the shots son Godzilla or they are but maybe it's because there's some side shots and a side flipper I don't know I don't it just it felt whatever so anyways attack from ours attack from Mars is a fantastic game don't get me wrong but what is it in my mind why am I looking at a cgc game I'm looking at a cgc game because of theme light show like a super fun accessible game for friends and family and then stuff in a in the game for friends and family that like toys Mex that they can get into but then also keep me entertained so what is it about attack for Mars I get it the bouncing martians very cool the spaceship very cool but if I'm gonna just compare bastroid to bash toy I do think the castle is much more entertaining than the spaceship personally so what's number three then third yeah uh you don't like that my third is uh Medieval Madness yes yeah I know I know yeah so right now I am between Cactus Canyon and Monster Bash and once and this is because I know do I think I would absolutely beat Monster Bash yes have I beaten have I officially confirmly beaten the Cactus Canyon yes there's no there's no question I've beaten Cactus candy have you have you beat 50 a Monster Bash because apparently anytime 50 through a game yeah being technically beat it no actually I haven't and the reason I I was frustrated because the one at tappers the the Cliffy or whatever was super bent on the Monster Bash scoop to the point where I mean I was just getting rejection after rejection after I couldn't finish I couldn't finish okay I kind of I couldn't make it happen that's what she said I know I'm trying to lay into Travis's weird analogies but hey you know what the fact is you've created a new t-shirt so I appreciate it like Joel wizard mode is when you get 50 through the game fifty percent of the game shout out to raid a Joel division is very it's clever that's very good so I'm gonna say email at triple uh what the hell is our email address gmail.com so wait have you gone to reactor five I've got the reactor six so you beat the game that's awesome said this I'm not I'm not making sure Toy Story is a copy paste for the second half of the game so in my mind beat the game is like I've I feel like maybe beat is the wrong word I feel like I'm gonna I'm gonna give you the credit oh I don't this is not gonna be genuine but go ahead Tom no I you beat the game thank you yeah yeah so why am I Monster Bash once again I'm looking at this game and I'm very much considering friends and family Monster Bash I love the theme I love the theme my kids love monsters they they would love the theme and you can't tell me like the toys in Monster Bash are fantastic there are so many different really cool toys so if I'm gonna lay into that that to me I just feel like I definitely see the chopping wood aspect of Medieval Madness and I know as a as a depth of code I do agree that the code depth is the best an attack from Mars but if I'm gonna curate my collection right like I already have a game that has amazing code depth I've got Godzilla that I'm gonna be able to chip away at forever so if I I just I am between Cactus Canyon and attack from ours right now and I will I'm really enjoying Cactus Canyon I enjoy the code and knowing that if the 2.0 code ever comes out and the code is only going to get better that's where I'm between if I was gonna buy a game solely on toys I would buy Monster Bash okay so that that's what you're meaning though you're between Cactus Canyon and a Monster Bash correct yes or between characters from ours is burnt to the big there's a hole I will give it to Joel I I will give it to Joel okay okay that out of all the remakes I I personally do not like the attack from Mars remake Phil or the Medieval Madness bill I much prefer the Monster Bash and Cactus Canyon fill I am 100 agree with that so so calm down Joel I'm calm I just you know somebody two people get off off their chair because they don't want to listen to my opinion but yet at the end of the day they agree with me what I don't know I I just yeah it's the timing of his camera going off you know I'm really perfect today I need a listener to tell me how to keep this camera on you're an idiot everybody you know how to keep the camera on anyways I just that's where I'm at and what surprised me is I can't find a Monster Bash that's the problem is like in this area I don't want to ship one I want to be able to get pick but it's like I've reached out to my local arcade group I've reached out to the Indiana pinside page nobody has one nobody has one for sale so it's like I can't even be tempted right now to buy a Monster Bash where I'm stuck is well if I can't buy a Monster Bash then it looks like I'm gonna go with Cactus Canyon but even there's a big question mark because cgc's so behind on building all their stuff and if it's there's rumored that cgc is going to be revealing a new game like are they even gonna make SC pluses like if that's what I was gonna buy as people do I even have the like if I placed an order with a distributor right now am I ever gonna get that game I don't know I don't I don't there's a big question mark right now with cgc in their production and timelines and I don't know but I've been reading a lot of the Cactus Canyon pinside thread and seeing all the owners and how many people are still waiting on their Les and still waiting on stuff I just I'm in I want to get a game but yeah so any listener that happens to be in this area of Indiana or surrounding states has a Monster Bash let me know but otherwise everybody's Diet Mountain Dew Diamond do imagine this is a die Mountain Dew but it's a it's a Diet Coke so shocker all right we've talked about cgc we've talked about spooky we've talked about um Stern can I ask one question Joel yes unrelated to tpf and everything why why is your Jurassic Park off put your other three games around well first off you are seeing a different camera than the viewers and I have dresses so Jurassic Park is not in the shot but the reason Jurassic Park is off is because it's my buddy Ryan's and he doesn't have the pin monk silent Flipper the silent fan mod in it so I hear a humming when I leave it on during the podcast so I turn it off I see okay cameras man hmm okay so buy your your fans at Pin monk pin monk dude Victor's the man yeah you gotta You Gotta Have It Insurance um okay so CERN we can talk about Stern their their cornerstone's supposed to be March so is Stern gonna reveal something before tpf they don't typically do that um normally it's like the week after tpf and then they have it at what mgc so who's who's up for design well George Gomez had said that it is very clear the next two the two designers this year will be Jack danger and Brian Eddy so which one it will be I don't know flip flip a coin everybody and then the rumored titles once again are Venom and Foo Fighters don't know what I will say is there was a lot of Foo Fighter comments made during the bond 60th stream they kept saying fubar you know what's that what's Jackson's name Fubar Fubar is a war term and it's a I don't know uh what is it it's I know I've always remember hearing Fubar do you know Travis it's from uh it's from a movie yeah a movie was it Saving Private Ryan or was it from oh my God it's a war movie Brothers Band of Brothers no okay I haven't seen that movie and I've absolutely seen and heard the word Fubar from a movie oh he's leaving again Tom's gone Tom's gone it's effed up what is it Beyond well no I think I think they kept saying as a joke because it's Foo bar Foo Fighters no that's not I'm just telling you just wait just wait but he said that and then he kept saying um he there was another thing that I said fool me once blah blah blah fool me twice like George Gomez kept saying the word Foo over and over Def Leppard they got that song fooling you ever think about that Joel yeah I didn't think about that I was just going with surface level he kept saying the word Foo so I kept thinking Foo Fighters but maybe I'm the idiot so I don't know I don't know what's coming spend debated but it's been debated all right so we don't know we don't know hopefully start announces something soon well we know they're gonna show something in March but whether or not it'll be soon before tpf I I just feel like that there's a big Collision that's coming at tpf at the likes that we've never seen before because we still got one more company or we got two more companies actually to talk we got two more companies to talk about that are teasing things so I mean we already know Spooky's coming with Scooby-Doo yep and then chili oh wait sorry what and my brothers should probably have a queen oh Queen yeah Queen will probably be there but jdl is supposed to live stream them today Queen so Friday the February 24th yes that would be today oh cool cool cool the day we're recording not the day people are listening sorry right sorry to interrupt no no it's it's fine Tom you're you're effing Beauty you can do whatever you want to see Pulp Fiction Stern potentially Foo Fighters or something else then we have American with quarter took Force I'm seriously most excited about this pen all right we've been I'm fired up for it yes okay I I agree like no sarcasm yeah I am I am actually I am excited for this pen Dennis Nordman makes fun games it'll be a unique layout I think we're all just been waiting a long time to see what's going on here but I've heard some very interesting rumors about this game and the game sounds insane the game sounds insane um and I'm all for it you know um I don't know I don't have you guys heard anything that you want to share or discuss I mean what are your it's galactic tank force just the name alone like I hope they don't take it too seriously because it sounds insane and I hope they just lean into it do you want to go first Tom no you can because I don't I don't know a lot about the game that sounds interesting so how can I word this I will just say what do you tag for oh sorry without without giving anything away I think people will be pleasantly surprised about this game when they see it at tpf and I don't I don't want to say too much more about that it's all sure obviously you could look on my face I I know about this game and I'm that's why I'm excited about it I don't want to give anything away I'm not going to do this look pumped up I am legitimately since I figured out what was going on with this game we had the podcast a few months ago I was legitimately excited for it and you know certain it to me it depends how the flippers feel as well like I actually like the way Hot Wheels flipped and I had one for a little while so if the flippers stay like they are you know I mean I'm excited about I'm excited about what this pin will be I think a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised when they see it at tpf I don't have a tank in it I think it's I think it will be tanked yeah I nearly answered that yeah you got me I think people will be very surprised by it and I think people will be I I don't know I I just I think I want I want to say I won't say that the hype will meet what we're saying because honestly I have zero idea about that but I am excited about the potential of this pin yeah I'll just leave it at that it's it's Christopher Franchi art we know that and they've already revealed some little Snippets of his art and it's very clear it's a what is like an art deco kind of style like it is very stylized so I think that's the realm we're gonna be in um Chris does great art there's no denying that um now normally he does a lot of photorealism so taking pictures of things and kind of redoing them but this is a unique theme so it'll just be interesting to see what he does but I I have no doubt I bet the layout will be fun Whimsical you know kind of a Dennis Nordman layout and I think the art will be great there's no denying that but um I just hope they do I just hope they fully Embrace how crazy the theme is and they make something that just stands out you know that that they they embrace you know it's been a while while since they made a game you know stand out from the crowd have a great time let's see what we get um so I I don't know I think it has full potential to be fun there's no there's no denying that so American pinball jjp jjp there's rumored games um coming out and that rumored game is still Godfather yeah so what did Eric Minor with Godfather there that's still a big old question mark I think it's a very interesting theme choice I do think Eric Minyard does make fun pins um jjp always goes all out with very complex code a ton of Lights very I don't my guess is if it is Godfather they're gonna make the best Godfather pin they can I mean well it'll probably be fully invested in Godfather well God father if that is what it is have hot rails ah yes yeah okay I think I think Eric Minyard Eric Minyard patented hot rails that's his thing I'm pretty sure he's gonna have hot rails in every one of his games from here on out um so I we talked about this a little while ago but I think it is funny that when we had gone down the rabbit trail of patents pinball patents and there's been a handful of them in the last few years like Insider connected has a whole bunch of patents Associated to it but when it comes to patenting mix Keith elwin has multiple patents like some of the stuff that he's made the Magna grab is patented and then the uh the the the the Jeep on Jurassic Park is patented like props to you for like making mechs that are so unique that you can patent them remember there's there's been no innovation whatsoever yeah in pinball recently no innovation none but um none is that all I mean when it comes to yeah jjp Godfather or American multimorphic something new and you've said that yeah so is it tpf is usually huge for them because they are there it is a local a show for them so they they usually bring six or seven games with a a bunch of their different modules but they did announce that Scott denisi is the creative director of their next official module so this will be a brand new module um I know Scott I mean he is I would hope he does all the light show because that's what he's known for his light shows are incredibly good and then I hope he's like hello I hope he does all the music in it and I'm assuming he will and so I love it I loved everything that he's made I'm a big fan um I've said it before if if somebody's gonna get me into a P3 it's probably going to be Scott denisi with what he brings to the table I'll just be very like I just think this is a very creative and Innovative platform that he's gonna be able to run with um he did all the sound effects on on um Weird Al so he's very familiar with the platform he's obviously very familiar on how to build a game but instead of having to build a full play field he only has to design a third of it right um they've talked about being able to add mechs in that upper section and it would be interesting maybe if this is one of the first games that does that I don't I don't really know but it definitely I do I can't think of a person that I'd be more excited for when to design the next play field I mean they're they're trending the right direction too because they got denisi on board I think they have bow and Owen and they have Colin MacAlpine so I mean they're you know they're definitely trending the right direction and Johnny cap on Art yeah hopefully they can get you know a lot of these out there I mean the more that's out there and the more they can do with the platform I mean that's exciting I mean if we go if we go back a year and a half ago when Tom and I just absolutely just grabbed the Beehive and just shook it all hell you know for now the direction they're going this is the direction I was hoping that they would go and I'm genuinely interested after Weird Al to see what else that they're coming up with and it seems like they're putting all the pieces to the puzzle together the question really becomes are they going to be able to manufacture all this at skill like that's that's the million dollar question with it so hopefully they can hopefully they can get games out and yeah I well I'm excited to see what happens with tpf with that I haven't no I haven't been reading it as much but I haven't heard I mean you're making weird owls like they I know it was it's taken longer than they expected but I haven't heard the big uproar I mean they're getting them out they're getting them out and I know my friend Chris got his uh Weird Al I don't think he got his other modules yet but he he ordered a whole system like yeah like he ordered word L and then he got Heist and I think Lexi but did he already own the the actual system no so he got the whole thing nice yeah so they're doing it but that's what'll be interesting is um because I just think this is it is it is a very unique platform in that sense because I'll tell you right now like if I loved Scott's game and I decided I'm in I'm diving in on a P3 I'm not just buying P3 with Scott's game I would I would buy Weird Al and I'd probably buy Heist as well like that's the thing is every new customer they have they're buying more than just one game they're probably buying I it's it's a cool model it just I don't know we'll have to see I'm excited and that'll be another game so my prediction for tpf is where there's going to be a lot of games that we're all going to want to play there's going to be a lot of waiting in line um and there's just gonna be it's gonna be quite a show I I there's the hype is real there's gonna be it's gonna be awesome yes it's gonna be chaos yes like a pure Royal Rumble of all pinball manufacturers and that's what I'm excited about I don't remember the last time ever in this industry that this many games are being talked about to come out right around the same time so it feels like the stars are truly aligning or just like an all-out battle to say okay here's what we have oh yeah here's what we have oh yeah here's what we're coming out with and that's that's what I'm excited about because I feel like healthy competition like that just drives the games to be better for sure and I I think it'll be interesting we'll definitely have to do a recap show all three of us will be there um and we'll have to do a recap show afterwards I'm like well which games stole the show you know like which game was the hype you know like did you play this yet have you played classic things maybe people just have to do a show like actually on the show floor as we're doing it real-time Thoughts with Tom we need more I'll just hold the mics [Laughter] yeah well I think that's about it um unfortunately I do need to wrap up uh cause I gotta go pick my kids up from school but um but no I I think there's a we kind of had a little lull there was kind of a lull there in December and January kind of uh what's going on what's coming out you know with Bond the reveal the Cornerstone in the 60th it's like it's out but it's not complete or what's going it's just but I think we're gonna we're in we're at an exciting time right now there's a lot coming there's a lot coming soon um and yeah just there's a lot of streams we're all going to be watching and then hopefully tpf will be an awesome opportunity for all of us to actually get hands on the games um and play So speaking of streams Slash is going on are you doing ping cholesterol I will be doing pin Slash I have not done one yet um it's sad to me but I'm like my goal is just to get like to submit one it's it's one ball like it's it is it is a challenge and for some you know that you guys can blow it up and get your million point whatever but for me it's just like I my goal is to complete all four things and be able to cash out on one more like that's I want to be able to do that 50 of the way through it beat the game yeah cheese I'm not gonna live that down so you're gonna like oh no guys I just hope they started one mode so before we go we do have to uh talk about the chat GPT thing Joel so we posted it up on our face we busted up on our Facebook but apparently chat gbt under certain conditions knows who Thomas knows who I am it apparently has no idea who Joel is so somebody asked chat GPT about who Joel is and it said and I quote I do not have any information on a person named Joel ingleberth can you please provide more context or details about who they are or what they're known for this will help me provide you with more accurate information this is an AI website right yes that's a very intelligent AI website just for the people that don't know so people typed in my name and apparently for the two people out there that don't know what chat GPT but if the two if you type in Travis or you type in Tom it spits out a very detailed paragraph Yes During certain prompts because you do have to get it worked in such a way but anyway so we let the listeners provide us with context that we can provide chat GPT with so that way we know so oh yeah so people do you want to read a jeweler do you want me to I don't have a pulled up go for it okay right away of course he hasn't pulled up okay who is Joel Engelbert start and strong yeah it says even robots know Joel sucks that's my favorite one it doesn't really add anything to it but you know that's a Timeless classic and then uh so cause says Joel is well known for having the best beard in pinball yeah thank you to be fair he has the best beard of all of his friends and family I disagree who has the best beard keep that one oh okay I was thinking this is wholesome too all right so uh Ed says Joel ingleberth is known for being and young I think he meant annoying no no no it's an original development uh okay what is that the GIF that I posted is from Buster from Arrested Development there's a character named anyong which actually means hello so anyong so it's a it's an inside joke that you don't get so so you're known for inside jokes because he's responding to the one Jeff I post this is my segment Joel Moving on all right and Matt has said Joel Engelbert is a pinball Enthusiast and host of just another pinball podcast and co-host of the triple drain pinball podcast right starting out good here yeah you know it started out fine Joel is far from a competitive tournament player and enjoys playing single level games in his basement wait it's getting better I think it's accurate yeah he has a passion for looking emo and promotional photos talking about all his but he's in the pinball design Community yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it starts you know I think the AI is really it's keen on facts and I think there were some there were some things in there that were not as factual as others but you don't have an emo photo I have God I have one photo from college that I regret and Zach Zach Dove deep and pulled it out and now it's for now the world just is eating it up they're loving it yeah oh thank you great segment thank you Neil for um Neil McRae brought that to our attention so thank you Neil appreciate that um and we better get to the Tom talks thing I mean we got don't we got to get you to your kids I don't I know I gotta go I gotta go that's yeah we'll save it for next time yes all right I'm not trying to belittle but I know um District 82 had a huge tournament and I know multi-day tournament so sorry Tom that we didn't I'm sorry nobody likes competitive uh yeah we were told we were told that we were told that yeah just stick the pinball yeah yeah yeah but no I will say Tom that was three to four hundred viewers disagree yes no that was well done incredibly well done and well liked and um we'll talk about it on the next podcast we met a few people that listened to the podcast so shout out to them as well we appreciate everybody all right well we'll just we'll wrap her up then uh Travis plug away you can find me on this podcast Tom to you buddy here in Fox Cities Pinball Joel yes uh flip it out check us out on Wednesday nights uh flipping out on YouTube check it out uh we alternate between flipping out with friends which is a chatting stream and then actually playing pinball so hopefully like I said soon I'll be either streaming Bond 60th or Scooby-Doo should be a good time um and then yeah triple drain yeah check out our stuff sober all swag uh thanks again for the intro video Brad uh check out his stuff and um Joe we could do a head-to-head stream on band 60th that would be that would be pretty cool actually I would actually get a lot of attention I want that right now so Bond 60th and headstream you guys heard it here first Joel well well I was gonna have Neil face him oh yeah not needed oh man all right rubber bands on those outlanes to survive no what I'll do is I'll play a four player co-op game versus one of their single games and we'll see what happens yeah but uh like always you get the last words uh bye
“in my opinion I think it's going to hold its value after the fact”
Travis@ 31:08 — Addresses secondary market and collectibility concerns about Bond 60th investment
“I would personally I would want to get the pen personally if it was the right theme okay if this was a theme that I really enjoyed I probably wouldn't have a problem taking my funds my budget for pinball and making room for it”
Travis@ 30:47 — Indicates that theme is the primary barrier, not price, for collector interest in Bond 60th
licensing_signal: Bond licensor imposed strict requirements that games maintain movie-specific separation; originally requested older pin design, Stern negotiated for Cornerstone Bond as alternative
medium · Joel: 'the licensor this is what the licenser requested first they wanted an older pin so it's almost like Stern had to talk him into allowing them to do the Cornerstone'
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sentiment_shift: Community criticism of Bond 60th pricing ($20k+) with claims game lacks depth and is 'cash grab'; hosts characterize as first-world problem and defend manufacturer business model
high · Joel noting Facebook/Pinside comments: 'this is a joke you know this is not twenty thousand dollars worth of a game' and defending manufacturer pricing decisions
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content_signal: Triple Drain Podcast received unsolicited high-quality video intro created by Brad Johansson/Alter Creative Media; second creator also contributed independently
high · Joel: 'Brad put that together entirely on his own' and discussion of community engagement resulting in professional video production
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market_signal: Bond 60th positioned as premium $20k+ LE targeting Bond collectors with specific licensor requirements; broader market has multiple price tiers ($7k Pro to $15k+ LE)
high · Discussion of price point, Joel noting 'there's people that will readily buy a 10 12 000 Le there's people that will buy a seven thousand dollar Pro' and Bond targeting
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operational_signal: Multiple hosts indicate Bond 60th will be available at Tournament Play Facility (TPF) for public play despite high acquisition cost
medium · Joel: 'I think I heard that there's one that's coming to tpf I've heard that from a couple people'
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competitive_signal: Keith Owen participated in District 82 tournament day one wearing Triple Drain Podcast shirt
high · Tom: 'he wore day one he wore triple drain shirt' at District 82 tournament
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design_philosophy: Bond 60th represents intentional design direction favoring older single-level playfield styles with modern flippers over contemporary multi-level competitive complexity
high · Tom: 'I liked it but okay yeah so that's it thanks to everybody I just like how it's got a modern Vibe but it's more of a throwback to older games' and Travis on single-level demand