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Pinball Magazine & Pinball News Bonus PINcast: Interview with Daniel Janson about ABBA pinball

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·54m 39s·analyzed·Apr 11, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Pinball Brothers CEO details ABBA pinball launch, 800-unit limit, dual-mode gameplay, and June 2024 shipping timeline.

Summary

Daniel Janssen of Pinball Brothers discusses the April 6, 2024 launch of ABBA pinball in Sweden, revealing production details, game design philosophy, software completion status, licensing ease with Universal/Polar, and the integration of ABBA Voyage show narrative elements. The game will ship in early June with 800 units total across two editions (Arrival LE: 500 units, Voyage CE: 300 units), featuring two game modes accessible to both casual music fans and story-focused players.

Key Claims

  • ABBA pinball will ship in early June 2024

    high confidence · Daniel Janssen explicitly stated shipping timeline: 'I don't see any problems with the software being at 1.0 when we shipped the first games early June, I would say.'

  • Production limited to 800 total units (Arrival LE: 500, Voyage CE: 300) with no plans for additional production beyond that

    high confidence · Daniel confirmed: 'the plan is the 800 and no more at this point' and explained limitation is due to manufacturing capacity constraints with multiple titles in pipeline.

  • Software was approximately 70-80% complete at launch party, with all song modes present but not fully complete, only one multiball, and additional lamp shows/features pending

    medium confidence · Daniel stated: 'all but one of the song modes' present but 'not necessarily 100 complete' and 'there will be several' multiballs in final release, but 'a lot of lamp shows and other things to come.'

  • Universal Music/Polar record label owns ABBA rights, making music licensing straightforward with no complications

    high confidence · Daniel explained: 'the rights are not too complicated they are owned by one company Universal owns Polar, which is Abbas' record company. So in that sense, it's been very straightforward.'

  • Game will include at least 20+ songs total, with 16 announced at launch and more being added post-launch

    high confidence · Daniel stated: 'there will be at least 20' songs and confirmed additional songs from unreleased albums will potentially be added.

  • Ludwig Andersson (producer of ABBA Voyage show) is not just a contact but primary driver of art direction for both game editions

    high confidence · Daniel confirmed: 'Ludwig obviously has been the one driving it from their side. And he's been very, very interested in the art specifically.'

  • ABBA Voyage show runs through end of 2024 and likely into mid-2026

    medium confidence · Jonathan Euston stated: 'the London show I think is certainly going through to the end of 2024 and probably into mid-2026.'

Notable Quotes

  • “It felt like a great opportunity, obviously, to be able to work with them. Then being Swedish, of course, Abba is a big thing, so it was quite easy to jump on it and we don't regret it at all.”

    Daniel Janssen @ early in interview — Explains motivation for ABBA license from Swedish perspective and enthusiasm despite long development timeline.

  • “We are not talking about that many units for pinball production anyway. And with such a huge brand or band that ABBA is, that isn't really a problem at all, I would say.”

    Daniel Janssen @ mid-interview — Addresses U.S. market concern about ABBA's lower popularity by emphasizing ABBA's massive global appeal compensates for limited U.S. recognition.

  • “The story is that your quest when playing the game is to find the medallion of power and power it, and then when you have done that, your end goal is to make Abba into avatars. So you basically turn them make them immortal.”

    Daniel Janssen @ gameplay discussion section — Reveals core narrative structure connecting ABBA Voyage storyline to pinball game mechanics.

  • “You basically turn them make them immortal... But if you're not that much into ABBA, you can definitely focus on the other part of the game, which is the story.”

    Daniel Janssen @ gameplay explanation — Emphasizes dual-appeal design targeting both ABBA fans and non-fans through dual game modes.

  • “So there is a bunch of songs, quite a list that hasn't been implemented yet will be implemented in the final game.”

    Daniel Janssen @ music discussion — Indicates more content to come post-launch, suggesting post-release software updates planned.

  • “I mean it's been since this weekend and all I have is ABBA music in my head and I can't get it out so imagine being in the development of the game.”

    Jonathan Euston @ music discussion — Humorous observation about earworm effect of ABBA songs, humanizing development experience.

  • “It's too complicated, I would say, to use that avatar material, the holograms of of the ABBA members. So that is unfortunately too hard to implement in the game.”

Entities

Daniel JanssenpersonPinball BrotherscompanyABBAorganizationLudwig AnderssonpersonUniversal Music/PolarcompanyABBA Voyageevent/productEuro Pinball CorporationcompanyPedretticompanyJonathan EustonpersonMartin Eyreperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Production run limited to 800 units not due to demand concerns but manufacturing capacity constraints across multiple game titles in pipeline; future unlimited model possible only if exceptional demand requires plan changes.

    high · Daniel explained: 'the 800 limit for ABBA is there because we thought this through quite carefully' due to 'many, many games to manufacture' and need to 'be realistic about the output.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Brothers offering flexibility for post-launch feedback and suggestions; playfield/artwork locked down but open to constructive criticism on game design elements.

    medium · Daniel stated: 'I am quite flexible I always listen to good suggestions please shoot if you have I will do that outside of this interview.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Voyage artwork may confuse casual consumers unfamiliar with ABBA Voyage show; aesthetic does not immediately connote ABBA to non-show visitors; requires explanation/context to appreciate.

    medium · Jonathan noted: 'artwork on the Voyage version...is very different from anything that people would immediately associate with ABBA having not seen Voyage'; Daniel acknowledged: 'some people might think...this has nothing to do with abba what is what is this.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: ABBA pinball designed with dual-appeal architecture: casual music-focused gameplay for ABBA fans; story-driven quest narrative (finding medallion, collecting band member souls, unlocking Voyage dimension, wizard mode) for non-fans seeking deeper engagement.

    high · Daniel articulated design intent: 'you can choose to see it as a music pin' or 'focus on the other part of the game, which is the story' for those 'not that much into ABBA.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.164

0:00
Interview with Daniel Janssen of Pinball Brothers. Hi, my name is Jonathan Euston. I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine, and I'm joined by... Hello, I'm Martin Eyre, and I'm the editor of Pinball News. And Jonathan and I have the pleasure of being joined by Daniel Janssen of Pinball Brothers to talk all about the launch of the new ABBA pinball machines. Yeah, there was a special launch party last weekend, April 6th, in Örebro, Sweden. Yeah, well done. Yeah, Martin and I were both present. We both wrote reports on this event for our separate websites. That's pinballnews.com for Martin and pinball-magazine.com for my article. and they're at the top, so you find them quickly.
1:01
And, of course, the launch event was streamed live, although in a different way than many people were expecting it to be.
1:11
And we'll discuss that with Daniel as well. But, of course, with this Appa Pimba machine being announced and with a rule set that sounded rather cryptic. There were plenty of questions that we felt we would like to hear from Daniel or someone else at Pinball Brothers from the train of thought behind these. And that's why we contacted Daniel who was more than willing to talk to us. Oh, great. Let's listen to what Daniel has to say. Right now we're joined by Daniel Jensen, who is the CEO, if I'm not mistaken, of Pinball Brothers in Sweden. He was also involved in Freeplay in Sweden, which is also a pinball-related company. But we're talking to Daniel today about the launch party of the ABBA pinball that was basically revealed last weekend. The party was held last weekend and of course we want to hear all about it and about the game as well. So welcome Daniel Jensen. Yes, welcome.
2:26
Thank you very much. Well, first of all, thank you very much for holding the party. I know Jonathan and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves there.

  • Technical enhancements in ABBA game include end-of-stroke switches, topper support, flashers in backbox and playfield, mini-beacon functionality, improved bus speed, and smoother LED performance

    high confidence · Daniel outlined new 'Razorback' platform features: 'end of strokes' support, 'expansions like Topper and there's flashers both in the back box and on the play field' and 'special beacon mini beacon.'

    • Daniel Janssen @ video content discussion — Technical limitation: ABBA Voyage holograms cannot be used in pinball game, explaining why only interlude videos are used.

  • “All I can say is that that artwork is in my mind completely mind-blowing and they have spent a lot to come up with that art for that show and having the opportunity of putting that onto a pinball machine is a great honor from our perspective.”

    Daniel Janssen @ artwork discussion — Defends Voyage artwork choices as creative decision honoring massive investment in ABBA Voyage show design.

    • Örebro, Sweden
    event
    ABBA Pinball - Arrival Limited Editionproduct
    ABBA Pinball - Voyage Collector Editionproduct
    ?

    event_signal: Launch party on April 6, 2024 coincided with 50th anniversary of ABBA's Eurovision Song Contest victory with 'Waterloo'; strategic date selection demonstrating attention to cultural milestones and fan engagement.

    high · Daniel explained: 'April 6th...marks the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning the Eurovision Song Contest with the song Waterloo. To the date. Yeah, exactly.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: ABBA licensing process straightforward with Universal/Polar; no complications with music rights; flexible regarding song selection and changes; potential for future album content (Visitors, Voyage albums not yet included).

    high · Daniel confirmed: 'the rights are not too complicated' and Universal/Polar 'have been very, very kind when it comes to changing songs.'

  • $

    market_signal: ABBA pinball positioned at premium pricing (Voyage CE $1,000 higher than Arrival LE) to offset limited 800-unit production run; price not reduced due to smaller volume relative to typical 3,000-4,000 unit runs at lower-tier manufacturers.

    medium · Jonathan queried how 800-unit limit affects pricing, noting 'would basically allow you to lower the cost because you can spread all the development costs over 3,000 or 4,000 games instead of only 800'; Daniel agreed limited edition future model would be cheaper.

  • ?

    announcement: Official launch and reveal of ABBA pinball machine with two editions (Arrival LE: 500 units, Voyage CE: 300 units), marking formal market entry for Pinball Brothers' music-themed title.

    high · Launch party held April 6, 2024 in Sweden with playable units; shipping early June 2024; detailed gameplay and artwork discussed in interview.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Software development ongoing post-launch with additional song implementations, multiball modes, and lamp show effects planned for future updates beyond 1.0 shipping release.

    high · Daniel confirmed: 'there is a bunch of songs, quite a list that hasn't been implemented yet will be implemented in the final game' and 'there will be several' multiballs coming in final release.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball Brothers planning multiple future titles after ABBA production concludes; timeline for next announcement unclear but dependent on manufacturing capacity planning.

    medium · Daniel stated cannot commit to timeline for next announcement because 'we simply don't know exactly' due to need for 'more detailed plans.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: ABBA Voyage holographic avatars cannot be implemented in pinball game; technical complexity prohibits use of show's signature visual element, limiting connection to primary stage attraction.

    high · Daniel stated: 'It's too complicated, I would say, to use that avatar material, the holograms of of the ABBA members. So that is unfortunately too hard to implement in the game.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Pinball Brothers introducing new 'Razorback' hardware platform with enhanced features: end-of-stroke switches, topper/flasher support, mini-beacon functionality, improved LED performance and bus speed.

    high · Daniel detailed technical enhancements: 'end of strokes which is obviously but that's only a small part of it we are also adding there's also support for expansions like Topper and there's flashers both in the back box and on the play field.'

    • 2:36
    How do you feel the launch party went on Saturday? That was on Saturday the 6th of April for those who listened to this at a later date. Right, which was a monumental date, I would add, as it marks the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning the Eurovision Song Contest with the song Waterloo.
    2:59
    To the date. Yeah, exactly. As everybody has figured out by now, that is the reason, obviously, that we had this date, had the launch party on this date. So, but we think it went well, I would say. It was a lot of people and a lot of fun.
    3:22
    But for those who haven't seen pictures or video or reports about the event, you had four of the new ABBA machines there, two of the Arrival Limited Editions and two of the Voyage Collector Editions. No, I think it was three to one, but okay, it doesn't matter.
    3:40
    Yeah, that's correct. Oh, was it? Oh, I apologise. I only saw two of them and played two of them. So obviously you needed to hit that date of the 6th of April for your launch party, and you needed to get the game in a particular, well, certainly in a playable and enjoyable condition for that time. How difficult was it to do that, and what were the key things that you wanted to have the game, which elements of the game do you need to have ready for that 6th of April launch?
    4:18
    First of all, when you do a live launch like that, you obviously need to have a stable game. And as we are still developing the software,
    4:28
    we opted to have a stable software, not necessarily containing all the best and wisest there are in there. but not fully tested yet. So we went for a solid build, and from a hardware perspective, we have been ready for quite a while, so that was never an issue, I would say.
    4:55
    But for software, you always want to have as much in there as possible, but the game obviously needs to run flawlessly. so how complete would you say that the software in the game was I mean maybe hard put an actual figure on it but you there are elements of the game which obviously haven't been encoded yet and maybe some parts of the play field which weren't necessarily acting as they necessarily will when the final game is complete so how complete would you say the game was that we saw um there's there's a lot really a lot to come obviously so it's hard to say percentage wise but it's uh it's uh what you what you had in the game right now was uh all but one of the song modes and uh not necessarily 100 complete but they are they are quite quite good as they are and then they there was only one multiple in the game obviously and there will be several in the final release.
    6:02
    And there is also a lot of lamp shows and other things to come. So if you enjoyed it even a tiny bit now, you will definitely enjoy it a lot when it's finished. And we are full steam ahead to finalize the software. So I don't see any problems with the software being at 1.0 when we shipped the first games early June, I would say. Early June. Early June, okay.
    6:36
    Now, before we get back to the party, can you talk us through the development of the game? Because I understand this is a process that has been taken quite a few years.
    6:48
    You were originally approached by the son of Benny Anderson, Ludwig Anderson, if I'm not mistaken. and how did it go from there?
    6:59
    Yeah, that's right. But when he refers to it's taken a long time, it's not necessarily that all that time has been development time. It's been a long time since we first spoke.
    7:14
    And so I would say that the reason for having the game out now is obviously that we have had two other titles that you know of that we have been designing and producing first.
    7:32
    But yes, it's been going on for quite a while, but it's just the last year that the development has been sort of in full capacity, you could say. Right, okay.
    7:47
    So, and I understand... I just want to ask quickly, when Ludwig came to you, what was his pitch to you?
    7:58
    Were you immediately sold on the idea of doing an Abergaen when he said, I can help you make this happen? Or was it something you considered in the past? And what sort of doors did Ludwig open for you that would have been very difficult to get opened without his assistance? I think in general, even if ABBA isn't, they are quite big in all parts of the world, but obviously they are huge in Europe most of all and Australia, I guess. but they are quite sort of reserved they don't do much of merchandise in terms of merchandise and stuff like that if you work with other licenses you normally work with a sort of licensing department that has an assignment to make as much money out of the license as possible but in this case with ABBA always being this cautious when it comes to these kind of products. It felt like a great opportunity, obviously, to be able to work with them. Then being Swedish, of course, Abba is a big thing, so it was quite easy to jump on it and we don't regret it at all. but I think what happened during the course of talking to Ludwig we have sort of talked for quite a while as you mentioned a voyage happened in between and that was something that opened definitely new doors when it comes to the story of the game and the different flavors of the game obviously and the different artwork of the game I would say so when we first started talking that didn't happen yet. So that's sort of a second dimension, if you like, of the title. So now for those not fully aware, Ludwig Andersson is the producer of the ABBA Voyage show in London.
    10:23
    And from what I understood from you last week, Daniel, is that he's also responsible for most of the art direction on both ABBA editions that are now currently available.
    10:42
    Yeah, that's true. He has been, I must say that he's been obviously, and all of ABBA has been very sort of interested in the project, but Ludwig obviously has been the one driving it from their side. And he's been very, very interested in the art specifically. You might think that the music would be the sort of top priority, but that hasn't been the case, to be honest. I guess he knows the music from before.
    11:17
    Sure. Well, talking about the music, you said I think you haven't actually revealed all the songs that are going to be included in the game I think you said there will be at least 20 and you announced 16 at launch and I think there's been one more added since then now when any other pinball company has done a music based game getting the songs that they want has often been problematic and it seems like from your the way you've described it so far has been no issues whatsoever you could pretty much have any song you want and which you think would fit into the game, is that correct?
    11:59
    Yes it is it's been very very easy and I guess that is because the rights are not too complicated they are owned by one company Universal owns Polar, which is Abbas' record company. So in that sense, it's been very straightforward, and they have been very, very kind when it comes to changing songs and stuff along the way that we thought would fit, when we had songs that could fit better in the game and so on. So there is a bunch of songs, quite a list that hasn't been implemented yet will be implemented in the final game. Right. So because one of the first things I noticed is currently there are no songs from the Visitor's album in there and neither from the Voyage album, which was released only two years ago. Will there be songs from those two albums in the game or are there reasons not to do that? there are definitely no legal reasons not to for either of those but if there will be songs from those albums you will have to wait and see I would say but yeah what we have tried is to put in as many songs as possible that are sort of fits the pinball machine right basically so ballads although I think at least one ballad is in there but it's a very, very recognizable one, of course. But most of the music currently in the game is indeed very energetic and up-tempo.
    13:55
    Yeah, yeah. And I mean, a pinball machine is about that a lot. So it doesn't make sense to do a lot of ballads, even if they are really good songs. so but sometimes it fits but mainly you need some uptempo songs in the pinball machine I think right I think I'm not sure whether thank you for the music is in there but that would seem like an appropriate song for a game over mode or whatever but that's just me thinking out loud yeah it's almost a shame to use it for that because you want to use it elsewhere but you mentioned about the software development. Is it fair to say that the design of both the play field and the artwork is now all locked down and that's not likely to change?
    14:47
    Yes, that's locked down. Okay. So are you open for suggestions based on what we played last weekend? Or are you like, well, it's locked down. You can suggest whatever you want. We're not going to do anything with it anyway. I mean we are quite flexible I always listen to good suggestions please shoot if you have I will do that outside of this interview but I do have some constructive criticism if I may be so blunt yeah sure okay so Abba is obviously very well known as you said, in many parts of the world, particularly Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, but probably not so much in the U.S., which must be one of your biggest markets. And I think some of the pinball people from the U.S. were a little bemused by the fact that you'd chosen an ABBA theme, not understanding quite how popular they are in the rest of the world. is that low level of popularity in the US or middling level I should say is that a problem when it comes to selling the game there and did that influence your choice to make a maximum of was it 800 units across the two models no not really to be honest I think that when you talk about these regardless if you limit it to 800 limit production to 800 units or not. We are not talking about that many units for pinball production anyway. And with such a huge brand or band that ABBA is, that isn't really a problem at all, I would say.
    16:45
    When it comes to the unit limitation, that has more to do with the fact that we actually have a lot of games to manufacture of different themes from here onwards. Existing and future titles? Yes, yes. So it's more about that for production planning and stuff like that. Okay, so how big are the chances that there will be another edition if it turns out that 800 is not enough to satisfy the demand for the game, so to speak?
    17:29
    I guess it could be possible, but I would definitely suggest that anybody who wants an ABBA pinball machine gets one, because the plan is the 800 and no more at this point. But what the future will bring is hard to say, as you say.
    17:54
    Then there has to be a really big demand, I guess, and we have to make some changes to plans and so on. So it's not likely.
    18:08
    Right. Okay. So considering this is a production run of only 800 units, I can imagine that would affect the price of the game because you're not selling like 3,000 or 4,000 of a game, which would basically allow you to lower the cost because you can spread all the development costs over 3,000 or 4,000 games instead of only 800. so if there would be a third model would that be is there a chance that could be cheaper because the development of the of the machine has already been sort of a return on investment on the first 800 machines yeah sorry i should have been clear about that in the previous question but if they're If they're unlikely, as I said, very unlikely in the event of having another model, that will definitely be a cheaper model and it will be unlimited at that point.
    19:15
    That's the only thing that could happen. Right, right. Okay. You're going to be manufacturing this game in collaboration with Pedretti as part of your Euro Pinball Corporation joint venture, is that right? Yeah, that's right. We do, yeah, sorry. Okay, so when you set that company up, Pedretti were only making the 2.0 kits for Funhaus and Whirlwind, the Rudy's Nightmare and Total Chaos kits. But since then, they've announced that they're going to be making complete games, reruns of classic Bally Williams games. Does that put you now in competition with your own partner? no no i wouldn't say that uh i mean uh we uh there are only benefits as i see it uh that we uh that we have more more games to produce and more titles i would say so we don't see it that way at all we of course there could be um to some degree as you say there is maybe a competition if you see a buyer that choose between for instance two titles from us but I think it's just a good thing if they have more choices and does this mean that the Euro Pinball Corporation is now expanding even further now it's producing Pedretti games and your games and as you said you looking to ramp up production even further and maybe I'm assuming you're not going to stop making Alien and Queen games when you start making ABBA games, is that right?
    21:00
    That's right, exactly and that's one of the reasons as I mentioned that the 800 limit for ABBA is there because we thought this through quite carefully and we wanted to make two editions of ABBA that are really nice looking and sort of fully equipped, if I put it that way,
    21:29
    with all the bells and whistles. So instead of doing a volume product. And we, We, yeah, we, as I said, we have many, many games to manufacture and we have to be realistic about the output. And, yes. Okay. the press release for the ABBA pinball machine also mentioned some technical details like flippers will now include an end of stroke fridge and some other technical details can you indicate what that will mean for the ABBA pinball machine in the sense that how is that going to be an improvement over what people are used to on playing alien and queen yeah yeah all of those things that are mentioned in that list of enhancements in the next sort of version of our technical platform razorback is what one is the end of strokes which is obviously but that's only a small part of it we are also adding there's also support for expansions like Topper and there's flashers both in the back box and on the play field and there's a kind of special beacon mini beacon in the game that can be used with different functionality you could say so there are I mean we are doing continuously we are making enhancements to the platform and try to bring more functionality in the games that we make.
    23:28
    Some parts of that is new functionality, and to some degree there are enhancements in terms of bus speed, for instance, in the system and other things that makes LEDs smoother. It's a lot of things, and that is an ongoing process all the time, I would say.
    23:50
    So some of these enhancements may not be that noticeable when you look at the game first, but there are a lot of enhancements under the hood also. Right, okay. I do have to say, I really like the way how on the video screen the music videos of ABBA being used in the game has sort of been stretched in width, so to speak, because they were obviously in a 4 by 3 ratio, and you really extended that to probably 16 to 9, I would say, by duplicating the sides of the screen, which I thought was done in a very nice way. so a very very creative solution for that I would say there wasn't for for those well let's put it in a different way once Martin and I sort of had a game for ourselves and you indicated or you showed us basically with the playfield glass removed, what would happen if you complete, for example, the four ABBA letters on the playfield, and then the game turns into this voyage mode, which completely has a different artwork and gives a completely different vibe to the game.
    25:30
    Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, sure. Well, basically, I found the press release rather unclear about the objectives in the game. And it sounded really like, what does this have to do with ABBA? And I don't mean that in a very negative way, but it was described in a very almost psychedelic way. But once you explain it, by showing it on the playfield, it became a lot more clear. So I think an explanation like that could really pull in more people or convince more people like, oh, this is a game I definitely have to try or want in my collection.
    26:12
    Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes, it's tied to what I said in the beginning that Abba Voyage happened along the way. And Abba Voyage has a really sort of an underlying cool story to it.
    26:30
    and that story is told with animated movies, a couple of animated movies. And since we have the right to use these in the game, we have sort of expanded on that story, you could say, and that story basically is about you as a player. The story is that your quest when playing the game is to find the medallion of power and power it, and then when you have done that, your end goal is to make Abba into avatars. So you basically turn them make them immortal And that part of the game or that underlying story in that way you can can really see it that you are when you step up to the game you can choose to see it as a music pin You are maybe an ABBA fan and you just want to play some pinball and listen to the good ABBA music. But if you're not that much into ABBA, you can definitely focus on the other part of the game, which is the story. and by completing tasks in the game, like you mentioned the ABBA letters, that is actually you are collecting the souls of the band members. With every successful shot for the band member shots, you sort of build each band member. And when one band member is complete, you have a hurry up that you need to hit. And when you have done that for all the band members, then you find the medallion and that is when the game turns into this mode where you search for the medallion and it's pretty clear and obvious that if you remember how it looked that you should shoot for the left ramp and at the top of the left ramp there is a magnet that grabs the ball and when you hit that is when the game starts playing the intro to this voyage mode and then you will have a certain time to play in the voyage dimension to power the medallion and then you get back to the normal gameplay after that. And you have a number of these quests and they are a bit different, all of them, and then they lead to the end goal of the game, which is the wizard mode, which is also in the voyage dimension. Right. Now, for those not so familiar with collecting souls and understanding what this has to do with ABBA, basically, once you complete the four letters ABBA, you get into this voyage mode. and once you complete the task, which you're supposed to do in that mode, that basically collects you one-fifth of the medallion, and there's five different quests in total that will result in a complete medallion, and then you get to the wizard mode. Is that correct?
    29:40
    Yeah, that's correct. That sounds pretty comprehensive, and quite a deep game then. Is that fair to say?
    29:49
    Yeah, that's the idea. And again, you should be able to play this game as quite a long story. And you should also be able to step up to the game and play it casually with just listening to ABBA songs. And you don't really have to care about the story. Right, because obviously there's only a certain limited number of people who've been to see The Voyage show. although it's one and a half million I think so far in ticket sales but probably the vast majority of people who are aware of ABBA won't have seen the show and won't know anything about the Voyage storyline or the Voyage universe that they exist in. Is that something you need to bear in mind when you're developing the game that most players won't know the details of the Voyage and you need to guide them through what that actually is.
    30:52
    I wouldn't say that because this story could have been sort of, you don't have to know anything about Abba Voyage at all to enjoy this. The story is pretty sort of clear and could have been sort of, we could have come up with this story totally without Abba, I think. but obviously it now is an ABBA story so that makes it stronger as a theme I would say so you don't have to worry about if you haven't seen ABBA Voyage it would be totally clear that you are on this quest and what you have to do to complete the tasks and get to the wizard mode I think so I think that on the other hand if you put it the other way if you go to the ABBA Voyage, you will feel,
    31:47
    and you have played the pinball machine first, you will definitely see where it all comes from, and that will make sense. But as a pinball machine story, you don't need the ABBA Voyage experience at all. Right. Now, speaking of ABBA Voyage, of course, this game is about to go into production, And you mentioned the first units should become available early June. With the ABBA Voyage Show in London continuing to be a huge success, will you have any ABBA pinball machines at the foyer of the show so that visitors of the show can actually familiarize themselves with the pinball machine? Yes, definitely. The plan is to have the Pimmel Machines there, and quite soon. So that's definitely the case, I would say. It's obviously the right place to have the game. Right. I understood there's also talks or negotiations to take the Voyage show on tour, possibly to Las Vegas or other locations. If that happens, will the game go there as well? Or is that too early to say? yeah now you helped me out there because it's too early to say uh i would say i would love it to follow the show obviously and i i really can't see the reason why it shouldn't uh really because the the game fits the show i think in many different ways so let's let's hope for that let me just counter that and say um the i don't think even i don't think the las vegas deal has been signed or at least it hasn't been made public yet as to whether it will be it's not transferring it will be running in parallel with the London show because the London show I think is certainly going through to the end of 2024 and probably into mid-2026 so there's a few years of life left in that show in that location but assuming if it started in Las Vegas it probably wouldn't be for a couple of years now and I would guess by that stage you would hope to have sold all 800 units of the ABBA game in which case is there any point in putting the game out there at these shows if you haven't got any units left to sell?
    34:35
    It's a fair point I haven't thought about 2026 to be honest but I guess we just have to wait and see what happens really. That could be a good indication of whether you need to produce the a third unlimited model then? It could be, yes. But again, as I said in the beginning, we plan for 800 and no more. So there needs to be something special happening for that to change, I would say. You know what it's like with music. It's always the song you don't expect that will become your biggest hit, that becomes your biggest hit. So that could be the case as well. If you're like, oh, we're just going to make 800 and then move on and next thing you know you're making this game for the next 15 years.
    35:27
    Yeah, it could be. It could be. You're right there. You never know what's going to happen. That's for sure.
    35:36
    Right, okay. Now, can you still listen to music of ABBA? Yes, I can. Because the development of this game, the music is quite well earwormy I would say I mean it's been since this weekend and all I have is ABBA music in my head and I can't get it out so imagine being in the development of the game and you obviously listen to quite a lot of this music so hence my question but I think yes there can be times when you have a certain song and I must admit that Dancing Queen has been pretty, I've been a little bit exhausted perhaps when it comes to that song. But then when you don't listen to it for a while, then it sort of all gets fine again after a while. But yes, there can be times where certain tracks are getting a little bit too deep into your head, I guess.
    36:45
    Right, okay. So, while we're on the subject that you mentioned earlier, that there's a limit of 800 games because you need to move on to a next title, can you already indicate when such next title is supposed to be announced or revealed? because at the speed Pedretti is building games it shouldn't take that long well that's actually what we have to look into in more detail I would say even if I would have liked to say it I can't say it because we simply don't know exactly to be honest so we have to make more detailed plans before we know that ok can I drag you back to the ABBA game then and in the press release and indeed in person there is quite a lot of video content from the Voyage show but it tends to be the, what should I call them, interlude videos, that they're kind of ones which, videos which don't feature the avatars from the show. Is that going to change? Are you going to have any of the avatars appearing in the video? Because I have to say, the video at the moment blew me away. I thought it was so well done, the quality of what you've done so far, and obviously there's a lot more to come, but it looked really well composed and in keeping with the theme and really built the excitement so what else can we expect to see in terms of video content in the game I'm not 100% sure I understood your full question but if you mean if we are going to implement or getting footage or video from the actual avatars yes are we going to see the actual band members avatars themselves, or is it the clips which we've seen, which, as I understand it, I use when they aren't using the avatars on the stage show? Yeah, exactly. It's just too complicated, I would say, to use that avatar material, the holograms of the ABBA members. So that is unfortunately too hard to implement in the game. Yeah, well it's obviously the big selling point of going to see the show as well, isn't it? Of course. So you almost don't want to show it outside of the actual stage show or the live show.
    39:52
    True. But we actually think that this sort of extra story that they have added to the show that we are having in the game is a sort of a... It's a very special feeling about it all. And it's real art, I would say. It is. I think it looks great. But one of the criticisms I've heard voiced was that those people who haven't seen the show don't really understand what the artwork or the graphics are because they don't directly relate to ABBA as most people would know them unless they've seen the show. And if they have seen the show, then obviously it all becomes clear. But the artwork on the Voyage version, for instance, from the back glass through to the side art as well, is very different from anything that people would immediately associate with ABBA having not seen Voyage.
    40:53
    Yeah, exactly. Okay And that true And I mean as I said before in the game when you when you get to these points where you sort of transfer into the voyage dimension it does that in there it doesn really matter if you have seen that by voyage or not because it could be any it's just a different world and it's quite clear that this is another part of the game uh hopefully we will be able people will think that we tell that story in a clear way but from the outside you have a point that some people might think a lot of people might think that this has nothing to do with abba what is what is this and and that is obviously harder to harder to explain all i can say is that that artwork is in my mind completely mind-blowing and they have spent a lot to come up with that art for that show and having the opportunity of putting that onto a pinball machine is a great honor from our perspective so I hope people will come to like it even those who think it's off ABBA or off in any other kind of way. I mean, obviously, everybody has the right to their own opinion if they like it or not. But all I can say is they have spent a lot on that artwork and it is worth considering, at least in my mind. Oh, yeah. Now, that Voyage collector edition is priced $1,000 more than the Arrival limited edition. There's obviously a little more exclusivity with that, with 300 units compared to 500 units of the Arrival one. But what else are people going to be getting, apart from the art we've just been speaking about, what else are people going to be getting who opt for the collector edition over the limited edition?
    43:00
    The only big difference is the artwork itself and then the goodie box. and the exact content of that goodie box is not revealed yet. But the exclusiveness comes not only from the number of games being fewer, but also the fact that it's a completely different licensing for ABBA Voyage. And that is very, very, very few. I don't know if there are any other products, actually. that are out there, licensed from ABBA Watch. Right. Okay. Other than a couple of t-shirts.
    43:48
    Sorry, yeah, other than a couple of t-shirts and I think some final reprints. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, there are some, but very, very few.
    43:59
    Right. So the price difference comes from exclusivity and licensing, I would say. Right. So were there any elements of the game, I would say, that basically were part of a playfield design or a rule set where the ABBA side of people, either ABBA or Ludwig Andersen, that said like, no, that's not going to happen.
    44:40
    No, no, I don't think so. But on the other hand, he was, I mean, for those of you who listen to, Ludwig, the interview with Ludwig, he mentioned his references for pinball machines that he had been playing in the past and likes. And so in the beginning of the project, he had a lot of influence on what direction we took for the design.
    45:15
    And if you look at it, you have the whole playful design is a little bit 90s, I would say, with the two ramps not completely different from Medieval Mandas, even if the game itself obviously is very different. So there are influences that comes directly from Ludwig when it comes to what he likes in a Pimlum machine.
    45:39
    But nothing that he said, they haven't said no, I think, to anything. Okay. At the reveal event in Sweden, there were a few people present from the design team, but not the entire design team. How big is the team of people working on this game in total?
    46:09
    And who did we miss? Yeah, you missed quite a lot of people. We have, as you know from previous titles, we have, I mean, we called, had a video call with Kelly, for instance, in Los Angeles. It was the animation and Oric Lawson, who did the Voyage artwork or sort of made it ready for a pinball machine, I would say. and then you obviously Alexander Spohr did the base design of the game and then that has been refined along the way and this is always risky I can't miss people here yes it's inevitable isn't it then on sound I guess yeah on sound we have Olof Gustafsson who is he is quite a legend actually because he is one of the founders of digital illusion which then became known as dice which then I think were acquired by electronic arts they are they started off with making pinball dreams for the Amiga I remember well I spent many, many hours playing Pimble Dream, Pimble Fantasy. Me too. So it's actually quite a coincidence to end up in a project with Olof. He's a great, great guy. And he's obviously extremely talented when it comes to sounds also. And he's very, very interested in Pimble and has been all the time. And it's also, he told me that it's been his sort of dream all his life to actually do sound for a physical pinball machine at some point, which is the case now. So there's a lot of stars aligned here, I think, somehow. Okay. Does that mean that Olof Gustafsson might be involved in future Pinball Brothers pinball machines?
    48:21
    Yes, that could definitely be the case. so okay anything you would like to add at this point I'm not sure whether you've seen any of the comments on the live stream or on the reveal of the game and I'm not sure whether you interacted with those I haven't seen much of that myself actually but I understand that there are always things that you can do better, of course, and I'm the first to apologize if there were bad... I heard about bad sound quality mainly. When it comes to some comments that maybe we were a little bit using the wrong definition when it comes to streaming because our intention was always to stream the launch event, and we didn't mean to stream the game as a pinball stream, if that makes sense. So the whole way we have been thinking about, or we are going to publish a lot of gameplay videos soon enough, very soon, I hope, of the various, showing the various parts of the game and how it plays and the modes and the voyage things that we have talked about, the story.
    50:01
    So I think we will cover it all. But apart from that, I don't think I have anything specific to add at this point. Okay. Well, you've probably got another eight weeks, I guess, of development on the game before you plan to take it into production, then are you going to be dropping more reveals for various aspects of the game, like extra songs that have been added over that time? Or is it just going to go quiet and then just wait until everything is complete and the game is at 1.0 and ready to go?
    50:41
    I think there will definitely be reveals along the way. until we start shipping. Okay. Because you've still got a number of songs to announce that haven't been made public yet. Yeah, that's true. And how those fit into the game as well, of course, is going to be interesting to see. Yeah.
    51:05
    Yeah, but that's true, as you say. We have a lot of things to show as we go. Okay. I'm sort of out of questions. Any questions left with you, Martin? No, I think that was my last one. So with that, I think we can wrap this up. And thank Daniel very much indeed for joining us on this special bonus pin cast. And again, thank you for hosting the party.
    51:32
    And inviting us. Yeah, I'll just say for those who were or had been or read critical comments on Launch Party and watching it online.
    51:46
    I have to say, you know, how many parties have you enjoyed where you've just been watching it from the other side of the world on a video stream?
    51:55
    It was a launch party. You kind of had to be there. And those of us who were there, I think I speak for all of them, say we all thoroughly enjoyed it. So thank you for doing that. And thank you for launching the game when you did. And, yes, as Jonathan says, and for inviting us to be part of that. Yeah, and if I may add, I had never heard of the band Punch, if I pronounced that correct. But I was very impressed with them. These are really veteran musicians, and they really knew how to put on a good show. So good music, good vibe, very fitting for this event, I would say.
    52:35
    Thank you very much. Thank you for coming, and thank you for the interview. You're very welcome, of course. Our pleasure. Well, thank you again to Daniel Jansen, CEO of Pinball Brothers, for joining us on this special bonus podcast edition. And I hope you found the interview both entertaining and informative.
    52:56
    Yes, and of course, Daniel not being a native English speaker, occasionally looking for words, just as I am. so I didn't have any time to take out all the ums and what have you so it probably went a little longer than it could have but we still hope you enjoyed it yeah it's a good detail about the game and the process that led up to it and I'm sure you will be seeing and hearing a lot more about what's being added to the ABBA pinball machines the two models, the Arrival and the Voyage editions, over the next couple of months before they go into full production at the start of June.
    53:45
    Right, so that rounds it up for this bonus pin cast. But we'll be back as usual at the beginning of May, that will be. That's right. with our monthly recap, looking back at the month of April 2024. Yes, so join us for that edition of our Pinball Industry News Pincast, available from your usual podcast suppliers and the places that you got this from as well. So that will be the first day or a couple of days of May. So we'll look forward to seeing you then. So until then, from me, Martin Eyre, for Pinball News. and Jonathan Euston of Pinball Magazine. We wish you a wonderful April and we'll see you next month. Thank you. Bye-bye.