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DPP #47 "Godzilla toppers are landing! Check the FF panel! Hope you like interviews!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·53m 36s·analyzed·Jun 7, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

DPP #47: Godzilla toppers shipping, Pinball Adventures interview with design/manufacturing deep dive.

Summary

Don's Pinball Podcast episode 47 features news about the Godzilla topper landing at distributors, context on Stern's topper strategy and licensing constraints, and an extended interview with Andrew McCain from Pinball Adventures about their Honey Factory game, production philosophy, design challenges, and upcoming multi-level games.

Key Claims

  • Godzilla topper pricing at $999 is half the cost of Mandalorian topper and $800 cheaper than Rush topper

    high confidence · Don reporting on topper pricing structure and Stern strategy

  • Godzilla topper features a shadow effect, possibly projector or bright light behind the sculpt, but details unconfirmed

    medium confidence · Don citing information from Zach Minnie's post about the topper

  • Stern chose existing Godzilla sculpt to avoid licensing re-approval costs and supply chain delays

    medium confidence · Don paraphrasing The Pinball Show panel discussion on topper development

  • Stern designed topper with easy swap-out mechanism (zip tie/bolt) because they expect collectors to customize with alternate sculpts

    medium confidence · Don citing The Pinball Show panel commentary on Stern's design philosophy

  • Rush collector's box set ($500, limited to 300 units) is still available and has not sold through

    high confidence · Don checking Stern website accessories page

  • Pinball Adventures subcontracted all cabinet, printing, and metalwork to avoid large startup capital outlay

    high confidence · Andrew McCain directly answering Don's question about startup costs

  • Pinball Adventures recouped all initial investment within first 10 machine sales

    medium confidence · Andrew McCain on funding model and production approach

  • Honey Factory experienced zero ball sticks during 2023 Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show over three days of continuous play

    high confidence · Andrew McCain reporting directly on show experience

  • Honey Factory engraved edition (10 units) sold out within first five minutes of pre-orders

    high confidence · Andrew McCain confirming pre-order status

Notable Quotes

  • “The hardest part is not finding a theme, but getting a layout that the shots are absolutely superb, that is not too hard for people, but is entertaining enough for people, that the ball time's enough for people”

    Andrew McCain @ ~28:00 — Core design philosophy on balancing difficulty and engagement in pinball game design

  • “Nobody walked away from our game. Not one time that happened with our machine. They were interested in playing through the whole game or playing another game and just enjoying it.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~45:00 — Key metric of success for Honey Factory at the show; player retention as a measure of design quality

  • “The other company that we own is funding the pinball. So we're just really in it to have fun. That's the bottom line.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~22:00 — Reveals Pinball Adventures' business model: funded side hustle allowing design-first approach

  • “We have our woodworking subcontractor and we have our metal subcontractor in the same complex... I'm always put on the back burner... That is ordering lots of parts. So I'm always put on the back burner and this has happened for the long delays.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~50:00 — Identifies production bottleneck: subcontractor prioritization affecting timeline

  • “If you buy a machine for $6,500, then we're paying for the shipping, which, you know, I'm roughly $500, let's say, for the shipping. So the game is actually only $6,000.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~42:00 — Transparency on pricing and deliberate consumer-friendly strategy for first game

  • “It looked really simple but there [were] months of engineering inside testing and testing and testing and testing right”

    Andrew McCain @ ~64:00 — Reveals hidden complexity behind the Pinball Pause accessory; 30 iterations to perfect curvature and magnet strength

  • “You never get that time back. You've got to spend it with your kids.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~69:00 — Reflects on work-life balance and family priorities in context of Jack Danger stepping back from content creation

Entities

DonpersonZach MinniepersonAndrew McCainpersonJack DangerpersonTanya KlaispersonDave SanderspersonRomaine FontainepersonStern PinballcompanyPinball Adventurescompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Godzilla topper has begun shipping to distributors (Flip N Out Pinball received units) and will disseminate to retailers; more reviews and videos expected soon

    high · Zach Minnie's Facebook post confirming topper received and installed; distributor chain beginning to move product

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern chose existing Godzilla sculpt over new custom design to avoid re-licensing approval costs and supply chain delays; reflects manufacturing practicality over design perfectionism

    medium · The Pinball Show panel discussion cited by Don explaining licensing overhead and supply chain strategy

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern designed Godzilla topper with easy swap-out mechanism (zip tie, single bolt) to allow collectors to substitute custom sculpts; acknowledges aftermarket modification culture

    medium · The Pinball Show panel commentary on Stern's design intent for customization

  • $

    market_signal: Godzilla topper ($999) expected to sell out despite lower price point; Rush collector's box set ($500, 300 unit limited) remains in stock unsold after 6 months

    high · Don's comparison of topper demand (will sell out) vs. Rush box set stagnation (still available)

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Pinball Adventures eliminated large capital expenditure by subcontracting all cabinet, printing, and metalwork; recovered all startup costs within first 10 unit sales

    high · Andrew McCain directly explaining subcontracting strategy and cost recovery timeline

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.161

0:00
Hey, howdy, hey, all you cowpokes and campers. What's going on for your midweek? It's Don's Pinball Podcast, episode number 47, coming to add some brightness to your day. I'm going to go ahead and say it. This is going to be my longest episode. I've got a special treat here to get to later. But first, we've got some news. I've got some more information to report on the recently released Godzilla Topper. Also, a throwback to a Rush product that's still not rushing off the shelves. All that and more will be coming up after the drop.
0:36
Right now. Button. Slam, what's up everybody? Happy, what is it, Wednesday? Thursday? It's midweek. How you doing? Me in your ears. Let's get going. Godzilla topper, right? This internet celebrity guy, Zachary Minnie, I don't know if you've heard of this guy, owns Flippin' Out Pinball. That's flip the letter N out, pinball.com. He went ahead and received his Godzilla top. He made a little post on the Facebook page. I happened to see that. And get this. He says, people will be most impressed. Now, now, hang on, hang on. He's a distributor. He's just shilling product. Well, number one, this thing's going to sell out no matter what. Number two, I've met the dude, and I think he legitimately enjoys pinball. That was the sense that I got. So he made a post excited, just like any of us would be, at receiving new product, right? So he says he got his Godzilla topper and installed it. So that tells us, number one, these things are going out. Now, he's at Distro, so they probably got sent to him. Then he will disseminate those. So I think we're going to start to see more reviews of this product, hopefully some more videos and things. One thing that he did say, he was excited, apparently.
1:46
He's enthusiastic about this topper. And there is this shadow effect that was mentioned briefly, I believe, either in the video or somewhere along the lines in the description. But nothing's been shown of that. So is there a projector or is there a bright light behind the Godzilla sculpt that's projecting a shadow on the wall? Is it controllable? Where does it go? Is it as cool as a bat signal? I don't know. Now, he said he is working on a video. So hopefully we'll see some of that soon. So our boy Zach has got the first confirmation of Godzilla Topper has landed. and so I want to see some more information about this. Now, there was a pinball show called The Pinball Show that just came out, and there was a bit more kind of speculation, some background flavoring regarding Stern and the toppers. Now, you know, the knee-jerk reaction seeing this thing, everybody was essentially let down is the sense that you get. Now, I had heard before the reveal, I'd heard the price of, you know, $999, $1,000 for the topper, which is half the cost of the Mandalorian topper, $800 cheaper than the Rush topper. So I'd have to assume that it was probably going to be less integrated, less moving parts, less elaborate than those other two toppers. So I can't say that I was disappointed. I was optimistic that there would have been some sort of mechanism collapsing building, collapsing bridge, something in this. But I kind of understood that it probably was going to be more of the flat plastic and static images with LED lights than moving parts like, you know, the Rush Gears or something or the Pepper's Ghost projection screen from the Mandalorian topper. So what he went on to say, though, really was addressing the Godzilla sculpt itself. And I think that was the other thing that kind of let people down. You know, why not put a sculpt that looks like zombie yetis aren't up there so it matches the whole artwork? Well, he went ahead and mentioned that with the licensing issues, if they were to create a new sculpt, they'd have to then spend time, money, and treasure and effort getting that approved. And here they were with a Godzilla sculpt already approved by the licensor and probably already available in abundant supply. Now, they could then just, you know, throw onto the topper, and then it wouldn't be one more thing in the supply chain to gunk things up. So do with that information what you will, but it kind of explains a little more background of why they probably went and put this topper up there. Now, he also commented on the zip tie. My mod is still available, by the way. But the zip tie is there. it's quite obvious and he says that Stern is not stupid and they understand that people will have their own sculpts and they'll switch these things out just like people have been doing in the play field itself and so by having it simple you can clip a zip tie maybe unscrew a bolt or so and then you can bolt on whatever you want and they kind of understand that people are going to be doing that and so they kind of set it up to make it an easy swap out for people so it gives a little more background information And I think if you look at this from just objective consumerism, it is, of course, overpriced for what it is. But if you look at it through the lens of pinball, at least that adds some more context. So thank you, Zach, for putting that up. And the pinball show is always a good listen, always some good perspective from, you know, what is, you know, an industry insider more than just a general hobbyist. So that was great. On to other news. I was going through the accessory page on Stern's website for reasons, and I happened to come across, Remember when they released, it was about six months ago, this Rush box set, like collector's set, that included a T-shirt, autographed baseball cards from Getty and Leaf there, Alex Lifeson. Also had some keychains and some sort of vinyl, and it was $500. Remember that? Well, this edition was limited to only 300 of these. So act now. Buy, buy, buy before they go. Buy, buy, buy. Well, they're still available. So those things didn't sell through. So my point here is, you know, while people may accuse Zach of maybe shilling the Godzilla topper, that thing is for sure going to sell out. One thing that could use some shilling is the Rush box set, and I think that's overpriced and sitting on the shelf. So that should speak to the popularity of a topper versus a box that belongs in a dumpster, I guess. I don't know. You know, I guess there's some collectible things in there, the T-shirt, you know, whatever, keychains I have nothing to do with. If you're an autograph guy, maybe that's what their autographs are going for. I really don't know, but that is still available on the site should you want it. Also in the news, the Pacific Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show just happened last weekend, and at that show was a panel with Jack Danger, Tanya Klais, and the roadie guy from Foo Fighters, and they did an hour-long panel kind of really going into some detail on the making and development of the Foo Fighters pinball adventure. So that was an interesting watch. I watched the whole thing. There's a link on NAP Arcade to get to that. So just putting that out there, if you're looking for some extra content, or you're a fan of the Foo Fighters pinball machine, that's a really cool video. And it was a cool panel to have been in audience of, and we can attend virtually now. Okay, we've recapped some news. Let's get to something really cool that I'm going to drop on you guys right now. All right, listeners, I have got something special cooked up for you now. I got my first interview. I scored it with a manufacturer. Are you ready? coming straight from the frigid north, maple syrup-soaked moose-wearing wasteland that it is. It's our good friend, buddy, Andrew McCain, Mr. Punny Factory himself. Hello, sir, and welcome. Hey, it's Andrew here from Pinball Adventures. How are you doing? Fantastic, sir, and let me compliment you on your hard hat selection. I didn't know you were a hard hat model, too, in your spare time. I've been following your Instagram, sir. Well, we thought it was fitting for the Honey Factory to wear the hard hat around the factory. So that's how it kind of fit into place. Yeah, I get it now. I watched the live stream that we were all waiting for. And so I just want to first off, let's just recognize the fact that you have taken an idea, you have implemented it, and have gotten through production and are actually selling this game to customers. So that is fantastic, regardless of what anybody thinks of the theme. Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, one thing I always say is, you know, this game is a heck of a lot better than any game I have ever made. So let me just start out with that.

Pinball Adventures offering free shipping (valued at ~$500) on machines for Canada and U.S. domestically

high confidence · Andrew McCain explaining pricing and shipping policy

  • “Our first game would be a base model, that it can be a proven concept that we can build a game that's fun to play, that's fun for all, and go through the bugs.”

    Andrew McCain @ ~75:00 — Strategic approach: single-level starter game to establish manufacturing credibility before complexity

    • Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)company
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    VirtuPincompany
    Pinball Lifecompany
    Foo Fighters Pinballgame
    Godzilla Pinball Topperproduct
    Honey Factorygame
    Rush Pinballgame
    Elementsgame
    Space Hunt (Hexa)game
    2023 Northwest Pinball and Arcade Showevent
    Mandalorian Topperproduct
    The Pinball Showcontent
    Pinball Pauseproduct
    NAP Arcadeorganization
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
  • ?

    product_launch: Honey Factory engraved edition (10 units) sold out within 5 minutes of pre-orders; standard edition at $6,500 with included $500 shipping value; zero mechanical failures during 3-day show

    high · Andrew McCain confirming sold-out status and Don verifying pre-order website

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Honey Factory achieved 100% player retention at Northwest show (no players walked away mid-game); players played through complete games or queued for additional plays

    high · Andrew McCain: 'Not one time that happened with our machine. They were interested in playing through the whole game or playing another game'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Honey Factory features cage system for playfield allowing unplugging and lift-out without tilting; large adjustable feet (2-inch) with sliders for movement; designed for ease of repair by non-specialists

    high · Andrew McCain explaining cage system design and foot improvements

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball Pause accessory required 30 iterations to perfect curvature and magnet strength; injection molded (not 3D printed); thousands manufactured; endorsed by Jack Danger and Emoto at show

    high · Andrew McCain: 'It took us about 30 times to get the right curvature to work on every single game'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Pinball Adventures experienced production delays due to subcontractor prioritization; shared woodworking and metal facility but not a primary client, resulting in backburner scheduling

    high · Andrew McCain identifying subcontractor delays as 'only negative thing' in production process

  • ?

    machine_intel: Pinball Adventures has announced Elements as second game (two-level with mini playfield); will transition to proprietary boards and computer-based system

    high · Andrew McCain: 'The next game coming out will be Elements, and that's now a two-level game, so we have a mini play field on top. We're switching to use our own boards now'

  • ?

    content_signal: Foo Fighters pinball panel at Northwest show featuring Jack Danger, Tanya Klais, and roadie available virtually via NAP Arcade; full hour-long development discussion; high production value coverage

    high · Don recommending panel as 'really cool video' and noting 'cool panel to have been in audience of'

    • 8:04
    Or Zach Manning. That's correct. I mean, I'm a pinball player, and I'm a terrible designer. I'll just put that out there.
    8:13
    Yeah, there's a lot involved in manufacturing a game, you know, right from the design to the artwork to the, you know, manufacturing, oddly enough, the manufacturing part is the easiest part. But it's really, I was thinking about this last night when I was going to say to you, and I was going to say the hardest part is not finding a theme, but, you know, getting a layout that the shots are absolutely superb, that is not too hard for people, but is entertaining enough for people, that the ball time's enough for people because if you have not enough ball time people will walk away from your game because they don't feel they feel the game's too hard for them or they feel the game uh you know it's too challenging if you have something too easy like an old em they'll walk away as well because it's too slow so you have to have that right little part in the in the middle where it works for everyone right yeah absolutely like i mean designing an orbit it seems like if you're off by a half a centimeter you know you've got a rattle shoot that's going to keep rejecting versus that nice, visceral, smooth flow that we take for granted, right? Yes, absolutely. So that was the crucial part of us designing the game. And Dave Sanders helped us with that. And I can just tell you that we had a wonderful stream going back last month. And this show that we just attended, which would be the, I'm going to give him a shout out, the 2023 Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show. Yes, sir. That was up in Tacoma, Washington. Let me just start out by saying that these people, the volunteers, it's a nonprofit show. They don't make a dime. The volunteers there work day and night for two solid days to bring hundreds and hundreds of games in. They actually rent these giant trucks and volunteers drive them, pick up the games from each individual person's house, wrap them up, bring them into the show, set them up, leave the truck there for the three days, and then break it all down within a day and then put them back in the truck and deliver them back to the individuals who own the game. It's incredible. That is amazing. I had no idea. Like, you know, we have shows around here. I mean, we have Expo. I live kind of in the Midwest near Chicago. And, you know, if you truck your game in, you get in free. But, you know, a pickup and delivery service, that's, yeah, I had no idea that was going on. That's amazing. Yeah, so they probably had about 50 to 60 volunteers. And I'm just a big shout out to them. They're just absolutely amazing. Sure, of course. So anyways, if you're ever around, the show was fabulous. It was huge. It took not just one vendor hall, but it floated into another vendor hall. And they had half of that. And the other side of the vendor hall, they had the competition, which was great to have it kind of away from everyone. And then they had also on that side all the homebrews. And it was great to have the homebrews on that side because you could actually, you know, sit and talk to the individuals who had built these, you know, unique games. And you didn't have to worry about that, you know, that loud drum of sound from all the games. I think it's worth if you add the video games in there as well, right? But it was like, all I can think about it was like, you know, falling water, like a waterfall, just constant. Just that cacophony. Now, were you doing any scouting there, looking for any talent on the homebrews, like anything you could drum up a new game out of? You know, all the enough I was. I got into this hobby because I enjoy designing. That's exactly why I do it. Whether we sell one game or whether we sell 100, it really doesn't make a difference to us because the other company that we own is funding the pinball. So we're just really in it to have fun. That's the bottom line. A funded side hustle. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, I mean, it's hard to run something like this with, I imagine the startup capital's got to be huge. So, you know, unless you're beholden to some investor, like how can you actually bring a game to production, sell through that first hundred to then fund future things? That's an amazing, Don, that's an amazing question. And I'll give you the answer. We did it a little bit different than all the other startups. What we did is that we subcontracted all the cabinets, all of the printing, all of the metal work to other people so we don't have to buy the machines. I see. Right. So, I mean, we've eliminated that. We have a large warehouse up here in Vancouver, British Columbia. And basically, we just took two or three years to slowly build this machine. And that's basically how we saved a lot of money. So the startup cost? No, it wasn't very much. And within the first sales of, we'll say, 10 machines, we were all paid back everything that we put into it. and it covered enough for the guys to continue working part-time, building the next machine for the next year. Yeah, well, what a great setup. And then I think, you know, once you go through this process the first time, you make these connections, you know, it's just going to make subsequent games easier to, you know, source and whatnot.
    13:19
    Was it hard finding somebody to build your play fields That seems to be you know one big stumbling block that even the big guys run into issues with play fields I say I come back to that but I will say let me answer that question for you about the homebrew. We met two people out at the show, at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade show, and we offered the two individuals out there, I'm not going to say which two, but we offered two individuals that we would absolutely build their cabinets because they're buying their cabinets from VirtuPin. You know, VirtuPin, everybody's probably heard of that. You can just search it up online. Their cabinets from there, and then they're making their own playfields, and then they're doing their own artwork. But we do a direct art print on our playfields. So what we offered is that we would build up a cabinet, build up the playfield. They can build up the unit. They can come out here for a couple of days and build everything up using their software. And what we would do is take photos and put the feelers out and see if anybody was interested, and then go from there. and if they are, then we can get some pre-orders and go to town. So we're waiting to hear back from them, and then we'll go from there. Wow. I mean, talk about a pinball adventure for somebody, for a young creative. So going back to the show, how many games did you bring out there? How many did you have at your booth? We had two games. We had our engraved edition, and we had our standard edition. And I'm happy to say that we didn't have one ball stuck at all. Didn't have to take off the glass for any balls that got stuck. We learned a hell of a lot from a hell of a lot of people who repair the machines, who play the machines, just advice after advice after advice. And it was amazing to learn a whole bunch of stuff that we had no idea about, even though we've been working and designing and manufacturing these games for, you know, three years now, there's still new stuff that we are learning. We're taking all that. We wrote it all down. We're taking consideration and we're, you know, over the next couple of months and go through our meetings, we're making modifications to, to enhance our game. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely something to be said about an objective set of eyes, you know, to help identify those unknown unknowns, right? Things that you could have worked another year in your lab and never come across. And somebody is like, Oh, Hey, what's this loose thing here? And you're like, my God, we've been staring at that for months. You're absolutely right. It was, and the games were played consistently for the three days. We had lineups. And one thing that I can say about our game, I'm going to toot my own horn.
    15:54
    You know what, I'll grab the old, here we go. Toot my own horn. Nobody walked away from our game. It's nothing worse than playing a game. Somebody sets up a ball and they play a ball and they're not interested anymore and they walk away with two balls or one ball remaining. Exactly. Not one time that happened with our machine. They were interested in playing through the whole game or playing another game and just enjoying it. I wish it was a little bit quieter inside the show so people could hear more of the call out. But it is what it is, right? Yeah. But that was the one thing that I really took off and I was very, you know, I was impressed. impressed myself that people didn't walk away. They wanted to talk to us and get our free giveaways. And we gave away, I don't know, about 200 shirts, stickers, buttons. I'm in a lot of different products that we manufacture as well. We do some little products, gave away a lot of stuff and, uh, made a lot of people happy. People love the swag, man. I mean, you know, I've got this humble little podcast here, but I've been churning through, you know, key chains and stickers and magnets and things. Cause it's fun to give stuff out, right? The kids love it. The kids go nuts for it.
    17:10
    I was looking on the website of the pre-orders, and your engraved editions, those sold out. All 10 of those? Sold out. Okay. Yeah, within the first five minutes, they all sold out. Perfect, perfect. And they seem to be reasonably priced for the top tier. I think it was only an extra $500.
    17:26
    And free shipping. Free shipping. We're paying for the shipping as well. You're kidding. If you buy a machine for $6,500, then we're paying for the shipping, which, you know, I'm roughly $500, let's say, for the shipping. So the game is actually only $6,000. Now, is that just domestic offer in Canada or does that include the U.S. too? No, Canada and the U.S. I thought I would do that for our first game. I thought that that price point was reasonably priced for the amount of effort and work and materials that went into the game. we are using higher end materials I'm not going to comment on any other manufacturer's materials but I will just say that you can look at the website Baltic Birch, a hard maple lots of clear coating, lots of attention to detail one comment that a lot of people said about our games they noticed it was very very high quality and that made me feel great too if I can produce a great piece of art for an individual that they can also play and it can sit in the room and have it as a showpiece. So there's not going to be a lot of other day one aftermarket parts I'm going to have to have sitting on hand for when this thing shows up to throw in there like some other ones that I do. That's another great question. So the way we designed it, it has a matrix system underneath. So the unit basically runs on four or five boards underneath and everything's plugged in. And we just didn't plug into the matrix system that goes underneath the cabinet and then it goes up into the R-board. What we did is we put extra plugs where each one of your switches or mechanisms or targets or whatever it may be there so you can just unswitch it and test it somewhere else if it's not working or just unswitch it and remove it. There's no soldering involved whatsoever. We warranty all the parts for a year. They're off-the-shelf parts that we get from Pinball Life. the other parts we manufacture ourselves. And the way I kind of figure it is that we've been in manufacturing on other products for about 15 years. But if something's wrong with your target, well, hey, send it back. I mean, we'll just give you a new one and we'll figure out what happened to this target. I mean, when we manufacture or a lot of other companies manufacture, you can't expect everything to be perfect and there are deficiencies. And, you know, we just deal with it, So you haven't run into any problems with those multiple stand-up targets of them yeeting balls over the flippers or having to engineer an aftermarket bracket or anything yet? No, absolutely not.
    20:03
    Not that they're ashamed. Yeah, well, it is what it is. Everybody's totally different. And you know what? All those games, I think they look fantastic. Everybody has a unique thing and quality about their game. If you go with Hexa, is it Hexa? Hexa, yeah. Space Hunt. That earworm. Space Hunt, right? I've been playing it every day. Love that game. I love it. I absolutely love it. And I think that one of the individuals, Romaine Fontaine, who helped bring the Pony Factory to life, is involved with that project. And, yeah. And so you're going to expect good things from it. I love the, somebody called it a baguette, a hanging baguette because they're in France. So it was like a hanging baguette on the right. That's nicer than what I've heard it referred to as. Yeah, yeah, let's go with baguette. I still don't know what it does, but I thought it was a really cool concept. Yeah, so curious to see how that interacts there. I did have a question. When it comes to production and putting these things together, when you're looking at all the materials you need to put in here, Was there anything that surprised you with its cost or sourcing? Like something, well, we'll just throw some bolts in here, then come to find out they're like $20 a piece or they're impossible to source? Or was there anything surprising when it came to putting this together?
    21:27
    That's another great question. My answer will be no, nothing was a surprise, but research, research, research. That's what we had to do on every single thing until we found the right component to fit inside of our game. I will say that finding the right screen or the right power supply, it's just researching it. The main thing that was hard for us was that in the complex that we have our warehouse and our main company, we have our woodworking subcontractor. So we have our woodworking subcontractor and we have our metal subcontractor in the same complex. So I would go over to them and I would say, I need a few changes, but I'd have to wait because I'm not one of their main, not one of their main guys, right? That is ordering lots of parts. So I'm always put on the back burner and this is, this has happened for the long delays. So that was the only negative thing I could see when we were building this game. But other than that, a few tweaks here on the, you know, the cabinets and, you know, on the metals and, you know, it all really came together. We tried to look at the game and make changes to make it easier for the user to lift up the play field, to touch things, to repair things, to understand things. We just wanted it really simple, simple for the person that doesn't know too much about machines that we could turn around and just walk them through a problem and they could feel comfortable repairing it if there was a problem. I'll say if. Right, right. Now, these are mechanical devices, and the only assured way to show that you will never have any problems is not to play it. So, you know, at some point, you know, parts wear out, flippers need to be rebuilt, you know, and so that's part of it. So, you know, to make something not a rat's nest that needs to, you know, have half the field deconstructed just to get to a pop bumper, you know, that's appreciated. From someone that works on their own games myself and I'm learning as I go, you know, I totally appreciate that. we put a cage system on the bottom of our uh of our play field so that you can just basically unplug six plugs on the back of the of the of the cage system and lift it up and off it goes and it sits on a table and uh so it's very very easy access so the problem is on all the other games if you remember you know the the older games you'd have to put the play field in on the side because you didn't want to crush any of your mechanisms. Sure. So that's one of the reasons we did the cage system to make it really easy for someone to... And then the game flips right up and it comes out and, you know, it's got a cage that supports the front and the back. But we wanted to kind of make it, you know, a little bit easier for people to work on as well. We also added some giant feet on the back. So we all know that when you flip your game up and you have those stupid uh you know mini you know what are they half inch little feet that fits on and usually on the plastic yeah yeah mostly yeah there you go most of them are missing or you have those two uh what is it two lines of wood that are there to have it up so but we decided to go with uh you know two inch you know two inch uh feeders i guess on four of them and You can raise it up an inch and a half if you want. There are sliders as well, so you can just slide your game across. Just little things like that make a big difference when you're moving a game. Sure, any quality of life improvements would definitely be there. When you do flip up your play field, you just throw in a pinball wedge, right? It keeps the balls in the trough so you don't have to take them out each time?
    25:21
    Sure. I love that little device. It's very clever, which I appreciate. And then, you know, thank you for sending me one to review there. And also, I talked about the pinball pause on my last show. You know, I had seen that on the website, and I was thinking, well, that's kind of a little, you know, gimmicky thing, until I tried it, and dang if that thing ain't useful. My wife and I both love it. I need to order another set just because I want to put one on every other game so they're always within arm's reach. Because, you know, like I get a phone call or I got to refill the soda or the dog's going crazy, and I've got a good game going, right? It always happens right then. So it's just cradle up and pause. I love it. Absolutely. You pause your balls. That's what it is.
    26:02
    Well, one thing a lot of people do, it's funny. When we were at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade show last weekend, Emoto and Jack Danger came over several times to pick up more of the pods because they absolutely love it. They're fun. But a lot of people don't understand that. They think it's a simple thing that's 3D printed. It's not. It's capped, but it's molded. We made thousands of them with an injection mold. And it took us about 30 times to get the right curvature to work on every single game. And on top of it, it's the right strength of magnet that in there to hold the pressure against the button So there was a lot of I know it looked really simple but there months of engineering inside testing and testing and testing and testing right And I very glad you like it. I'll send you a whole bunch more. Oh, heck yes. Yes, please, sir. Man, I should get some branded and then I can sell my own line of them. I tried it on every one of my sterns and my two spookies and yeah, it works fantastic. So what a clever little device. I love things like that.
    27:09
    Yeah. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Now you brought up Mr. JD, Mr. Foo Fighters right now. That leads us to the question on when is he coming to stream your game?
    27:24
    I talked to Jack when we were at the show and I said that if he's willing to come out of retirement which I think he is, I said that I would fly him and his wife and his kids up and give him one of our vehicles so he can drive around of Vancouver, British Columbia, see all the mountains and see all the oceans. And then he can stream our game and have fun as well. Have a little mini vacation. He said he absolutely wants a vacation. That is completely generous. And if he doesn't take you up on that offer, I'll come up there and film the dang thing.
    27:58
    He's really busy. Very busy. And you don't realize that you really miss the time away from your family when you're just working, working all the time. And it's totally different trying to involve your family because, you know, you can involve them a little bit, but he has little ones. And I have six kids ranging from seven all the way up to 28, I think, 28. And, yeah, and you know what? You never get that time back. You've got to spend it with your kids. And, you know, I mean, so I understand why he's sort of taking a step back a little bit to spend more time with his kids. Yeah, yeah, as you should. I mean, we're about to head off on another couple-week vacation here, so I'm going to concentrate some family time because I end up doing the same thing, traveling all around the world for work and such.
    28:48
    Yeah, so one thing that's always fun to do is you speculate on the next game, right? And so who's got the Harry Potter licenses? Pinball Adventures got it. JJP got it. But you went ahead and announced, like, your next five or six games. Are these just still ideas, work in progress, or do you have, like, a timeline on this is number two, this is number three, we're in the pipeline here? Well, I always thought that our first game would be a base model, that it can be a proven concept that we can build a game that's fun to play, that's fun for all, and go through the bugs. And with a one-level game, we were able to do that. The next game coming out will be Elements, and that's now a two-level game, so we have a mini play field on top. We're switching to use our own boards now, and we're going with a computer system base. and then we have a little infinity mirror on the bottom, a little bit of other, you know, like a hand that moves and, you know, we do the next level up and that'll be a little bit more money. But now we're just, since we understand the single level, now we're willing to go to a multi-level and then we just grow from there. The reason I mentioned all the games that we're doing is that, you know, I have nothing to hide. I want people to look forward to our games. and be intrigued. I mean, who doesn't like a ninja? Right. Who doesn't like elements? I mean, who doesn't like sushi? Our first class is going to be an interactive, real video of, I don't want to say like American pinball. It'll be a little bit more professional than that. But, you know, and having to go up to first. Yeah, having to build yourself up to first. And then we have one more, which is, you know what? I forgot what it was. We have another one, which I totally flipped my mind. I'm so excited and giddy for first class. I love commercial aviation as a separate hobby. So, you know, any time I can combine things, you know, I'm down with that. And if your sushi game has a mechanism where the ball can get on one of those revolving sushi belts, I think that would be fantastic. Just throwing it out there. Feel free to use it. Well, I will tell you it's got a bowl of noodles. Yes. that. Love it.
    31:08
    You know, each one has a unique mechanism, and again, Dave Sanders, who everybody loves, he did Alien, I mean, he did Alien, he did our game, he did Mafia, I mean, just a slew of games. He's helped us design all these games, so you know the shots are going to be good. What type of sushi game or mechanisms would I put in a sushi game? I love the ramen bowl idea. I would throw some chopsticks down as a ramp at some place, you know, just like Guns N' Roses with the drumsticks with the thunder chuckers. Yeah. I think some, yeah, a chopstick ramp, that'd be fun, into a noodle bowl, goes down the drain. All right, my mind is spinning now with tons of ideas.
    31:47
    So that's fantastic. Now, will we see you change up your outfit when we're in the time of the elements then? Will you hang up the factory jacket and then come out with a suit of armor or something? Well, maybe. We have one of our programmers. He looks like a Viking, oddly enough, with the long hair and the long beard that has, you know, seven different elastic bands, so maybe I'll let him be the spokesperson for the element. Perfect. I love it. I love it. Let's see.
    32:17
    So I was on the site, and I saw they're available to preorder the standard editions there. It looks like 67 were available. You're putting the counts up there. Is that accurate? Is that how many preorder spots you have left? Yeah, that's it. So you're nearly halfway through your first allotment of numbers here then.
    32:38
    Yeah, a lot of, well, you know, yeah, yeah, there you go, yeah. Now, the games that you brought to the show, were you selling those on the show floor?
    32:49
    Yes and no. If somebody really wanted one, well, we sold a bunch of games when we were at the show. Okay. And I, you know, they were willing to take those, but I said to them, listen, why don't you just let me send you a new game? And that's a lot easier for us to do because the last thing you want to do is sell somebody a game at the show that has been played for days and days and days and hits and slams and kicks. And so we decided that we would come back and use our games as show specials and give them two brand new games. And we thought that would be a lot easier to do than giving somebody a show game. It was just basically a show special if they wanted to order. Oh, I see. Heck, that's even better. Usually I'm buying these ones for $400 off, and they've been slammed around for a whole weekend. Yeah.
    33:44
    I'm the type of person that if I find a flaw in a game, I'm not too picky, but if I find a flaw in the game, I won't send it out to a customer. I'd like to have it almost 100%. We'll say 99.9%. I found a few things in a couple of games, and I wasn't willing to send it out because I didn't want any negative feedback coming back. And it's something maybe you wouldn't have thought. But, you know, I see it. I take pride in what I do. And, you know, again, these are show pieces that people like you put in your basement or your playroom and want people to come and take a look at. That is correct, sir. Yeah. So have you noticed a breakdown between Canadian buyers domestically and U.S. buyers, or is it pretty evenly split, or does it just kind of go as proportionally around the population? Right off the bat, the U.K. ordered, I think, 20 or 25 right off the bat because they love their games out there. And then a lot of U.S.-based buyers, and then a few in Canada. however I think Canada they like to touch and feel things and we're going to be in the Yegpin in 2023 at the Pinball and Arcade Expo July 20th to the 23rd and that's going to be in Alberta Sherwood Park, Alberta so that's when we're going to be showing the game off next so we can have a chat after the show and I'll be able We'll give you more information. Perfect. How great is Alberta? I love my trip to Banff I took.
    35:23
    Alberta's nice. Yeah. And then you're going to be at Expo in October? So the goal is to be at Rob Burke's, a good friend of ours. We were at Expo three or four years ago. We did all the videography for him for the show and all the photography for him for the show that year. I think it was 2019. and we have been invited back again this year to, I guess, present elements and show elements to the world, and I'm going to cross my fingers that it's done. We only have the metal left to do and a little bit of programming, and then we're completely done. Really? So if that's the case, elements will be for sale over at the show after we do our presentation, and then people can put deposits down, and we can go from there. Breaking news here first. at Expo dot dot dot. All right. Now I'm excited. I'll be there. I got my room booked. It's a short drive for me, so I for sure will be at Expo.
    36:22
    That's great. Yeah, you live near the area. I'm excited about that. Right in the center of Wisconsin, man, yeah.
    36:29
    Oh, so are you building these then to order? Are you caught up in orders? How many are you making per week? Is it steady or does it ebb and flow?
    36:39
    That's a good question, How's the production going? The answer is going to be that we commit to 10 every single month. Okay. But we can build our playfields because of our cage, and we can store our playfields in the upright position. So we're always 10 playfields ahead, and then we do the cabinets on order. And oddly enough, I was just visiting with my cabinet maker today and just going through some fine-tuning of a few small changes that we made.
    37:13
    And, yeah, he's ready to start production for us for the next engraved edition. So next month, we'll have all the engraved editions done, and then we're on to the standard edition the following month. We are able to do 20 a month if we want to, but the way we do things is that the game goes through three individuals only as it is being produced. been manufactured. And so we don't miss things. And I'm telling you, we miss things. I mean, quality control, if there's any gripe from a lot of these boutique manufacturers, like that's it. Because then the customer's there hunting for that loose solder wire, and it's going to go through everything. Or why is there extra bolts in the bottom of the cabinet? Were these just extra or what's going on? Right? I absolutely agree. And we have a checklist that goes out with every game as well, that it's all being checked. So an individual can actually see what we've been checking and what we've tested as well. So, again, it goes through three people who do their own checks on the game. So if we miss something, it's very, very rare. However, we're not perfect, right? We're all human. So don't quote me on that. But, I mean, yeah, if you can, you know, as close as humanly achievable, get that QC to where it needs to be, I think that'll solve a lot of headaches down the road. Definitely a stitch in time, right? Well, the way I feel it is that I have to feel comfortable, and I say this to the guys, is that as long as you feel comfortable that you've done the best that you can do checking this game, it's okay. Simple as that. And a lot of people have to understand that, you know, we run on a Raspberry Pi. I don't make the Raspberry Pis. I don't manufacture them. So if it goes down, well, we'll just replace it, right? I mean, I don't make the SD cards. There's a lot of things on the game that we don't manufacture. So, and, you know, things do break. I mean, during production, people make mistakes or they run out of wire. They run out of solder. They don't put enough this, not enough this. So I can't do the quality control on all the parts that I'm buying off the shelf, right? Right. Just try our best. That's all. But so far, cross our fingers, nothing's happened. Everything's been fine. Perfect, perfect. So this game's been in development, you know, for some time. It's your first game here. Does that mean that the code is just about complete? Are you happy with where it is, or is there room to add more modes, more music, change things around, add attract modes or anything? So that's a great question, Don. I mean, it's a great question. And the answer is that most of our games are finished code. Finished codes mean that that's it. Nothing else is going on. Everything in the game is it going to be you don need to update it at all So for the Punny Factory the code is completely done and that what you see For the next game Elements we have decided to do a finish code for that game, but you've got two sides to the game. So we've got an easy level and we've got a hard level. You're able to decide by using your flippers and pushing the center button.
    40:33
    The why we've designed that way is there's some great players and some simple players. They just want a simple game.
    40:43
    Going through all the different modes of elements, I'll tell you that all the videos and music are all completely different from the easy mode to the hard mode. Oh, that's fun. No matter if you play each, whatever you play, you're going to get a totally different game. Okay.
    41:04
    Yeah, that's fun. I know with my sterns, there's ways to go in there and adjust the difficulty, how many shots to start a mode or whatever. But that's like a hard change every time you have to switch back and forth. When I first get a game, I like to put it a little easier just so I can learn the modes and things. And then you have to go back in there and go through 57 different adjustments to get it to where it otherwise would be commercially. So it's nice to have that option then just as a switch when you start, this one versus that one. I go on to the next game, Forsaken Ninja. It's going to be a closed code as well. And then I go into the next game, which was Volt Electric. That's what the game was. Oh, okay. Right. So Volt Electric, we're going to implement it so you'll be able to put your own music into it and play it to your own music. Say, that's fun. What about any options for Bluetooth connectivity if people want to play with headphones or anything?
    41:55
    So the answer is it hasn't been on the plate. however i am open to having somebody we are open to installing that on a game for someone that they could insert their headphones okay but i i guess the the thing is is that is there a demand for that and will it look ugly on the outside of a game right presently right now well i mean think about it right presently right now you could take off the back glass and you could plug in your headphones to the Raspberry Pi. Oh, I see. You could do that and then you could listen to everything, but then you wouldn't have a back glass.
    42:37
    So I guess we could do a splitting cable and have it come out. You know what? It's something that I haven't really thought about it right now, but I think that with the aftermarket adapters that are out there, I don't really see a reason for us to do it. Somebody's probably already working on a kit. that's going to come out and save you a lot of headache about having to have that offer. As long as it's possible, somebody's going to throw together a kit and say, hey, you know, this is $50 on Pinside. Go ahead and buy it and put it in. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I will tell you that I don't think anybody's going to come out with a topper for Elements because there is a topper at the top of the game already, right? I didn't even get to that yet. But, yeah, oh, man, I've gone topper crazy, man. I mean, you put one in your game room and they just don't look right without a bunch more, right? Yeah, I'm with that. And you've got a lot of fun toppers. They're absolutely great. I mean, I am. Yeah, I did miss the boat on Elvira. But I am currently working on my own topper for that. I'm 3D printing some gargoyles that I got off of a print inspired by the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland. There's going to be lights and everything. I'm very proud with how it's coming out. And I'm probably about a month away from unveiling what I came up with here in the 3D print lab. Can't wait to see it. Yeah, yeah. Now, let's talk toppers then. Are you doing flat plastics? Are you doing zip ties? Are you doing an off-the-shelf Godzilla toy? You know, okay. So, again, I meant the Potty Factory has a working smokestack up there. You have to buy the smoke machine. But, you know, all the electronics are there for you to plug in your smoke machine. And there's a smokestack with a tube that comes out. So, you know, off the town you go. For the next game, Elements doesn't – it has a giant topper. But the topper is a giant screen. Oh. So if you look at it, think about a regular game, and on top of that, you've got another eight inches that has another widescreen that's up there. The reason we decided to do this is that the spectators who are standing behind can now watch the videos from afar, and it's also got two speakers on both sides as well. So now you not only have two, but you have four speakers for elements. So you're going to have quad sound and subwoofer underneath. Wow. So that thing's going to rock. Fantastic. I love sound, man. Any money or energy devoted towards improving sound seems to really pay off. Yes. And also, we don't have any display on the back glass. We decided to put the small display inside of the apron, and then we have the giant display at the topper on top of the cabinet. And now you're just going old school with just having a nice back glass. Can't wait to see it. now yeah I mean why not I mean I was playing I mean I was playing Foo Fighters over the weekend and fantastic game I mean Jack was showing me a whole bunch of stuff on Foo Fighters however we both had the same uh comment where either you look up or you look down you can't do both right it's so fast right there's great animations but you don't have time to look at that when you're playing you don't and it's amazing animation he said that he kind of did that for the spectator yeah as well so uh but he said the game is really fast so i wish it was a little bit slower whereas in our game the funny factory there's breaks so you can actually see what's going on on the screen right the ball stops it does a little animation and it says it pops it out and you go into multiball right so uh but yeah so that that was the only uh gripe i think about that game but it is a fantastic game i recommend anybody playing it for sure i love it yeah now do you have any punny factories like local on location just to see how they're doing in commercial operations uh well i meant uh we will be giving a couple of games to a few arcades and we will be posting that on our website so people know where to play. We also have a game going out to Oasis Arcade. And if you can just give me a second, I can tell you where it's going.
    46:53
    You can... I'll just give you the address. We're having one go to Oasis Arcade in Lithia Springs. GA. What is GA? Georgia. Sorry. I'll do it again.
    47:10
    We have a couple of units and one of them is going to be at Lithia Springs in Georgia. That's the Oasis Arcade that they can play. Don is a fabulous guy.
    47:22
    Give him a shout. Oasis Arcade. I'm sure we did a shout out for him when we were at the show. I think he's got a bed and breakfast there as well.
    47:33
    Play some pinball. Everybody go check it out. Yeah, there's two or three arcades out here. But, again, we just came back from the show. We wanted to go through the game. And, you know, two or three games this week will be going out to the arcades. And we'll post it on our website about where people can go and play the game. Fantastic. Love it. I did want to get back to kind of a build question. It's been hard to tell. The side graphics, are those decals? Are those direct printed? How are you doing the cabinets or the cabinet art? That's a great question, Don. And the answer to that is we do a direct print. So what happens is that we cut out all the cabinets, including the heads, and then they all get sanded down. And then they get coated on the inside and the outside. And then they get shipped off to our printer. And they have a large printing facility that allows them to do a direct print onto our wood. So they shoot a coat of white down to cover up any wood so it doesn't seep in. And then they put the print on top of that. Then the pieces get shipped back to us. It goes back to our wood guy. And then we seal the units again. And then we clear coat them and sand. Clear coat, sand, clear coat, sand. And then they get put together. It is a hell of a procedure. Absolutely. Same with the play fields. That's exactly the way it happens as well. Oh, so these are like shiny and smooth then on the side. So is that for the – So equivalent to, I guess, Spooky's Buttercap. Butter, yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I think they do decals and they do clear coat. But we don't do decals on the outside. Everything's direct print. Interesting. So even – I see you really went overboard with the interior graphics instead of just doing the art blade that you can see above the play field. You kind of did graphics all the way to the bottom. Is that direct printed too? Absolutely. That's direct printed as well. So, well, why not? Butter inside an apple. Yeah. Why not? It's there. Why don't we do that, right? I mean, some people said it's not a big thing, but you know what? It's a thing. I think if you can add those extra little things in, why not, right? Yeah, yeah. It makes the game a little bit more unique than anybody else. The speaker system, we have troughs inside, cutouts inside the head of the cabinet, and the speakers are sticking off to the right and to the left. They're pointing right and left, and there's a trough that the sound travels through and then hits both of your ears where you're standing up rather than hitting your waist from standard games that have them beside the display.
    50:18
    Perfect, yeah. I can't wait to actually see one of these in person now then because you only convey so much through video and photos, right? That's true. Well, you'll see us at Expo. Absolutely. I can't wait. And maybe even some elements, too. You plan on carrying the same design process through elements as well with the direct printing?
    50:39
    Elements will have direct printing as well. And, yeah, I mean, we're not going to do an engrave. Engraves are very, very popular. But I think what we might do is that Forsaken Ninja, we might decide to do the whole cabinet engraved right across the board and not do any decals. Okay. Yeah. So I think that'll work. Again, every game that we manufacture is a little bit different. But we're having fun. That's all that matters. I'm having fun. I'm creating. Not everybody loves me. Not everybody hates me. I mean, you know, it is what it is. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion. And you get people that say it's not a great theme. But you know what? Can you imagine when somebody came up to the producers and said, you know what? I've got something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And they probably looked at it and said, what are you, nuts? Or, hey, let's do SpongeBob, right? Right, yeah. And can you imagine? And then Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you know, went to make billions of dollars, right, over the years. Or Mighty Power Rangers, right? Morphing Rangers. I mean, come on. So it has to start somewhere, right? And this is our own creation, and really, we don't really care what anybody else thinks, right? As long as we're happy, that's all that matters. And the people that have been playing it at the show went and purchased one, and you're nearly halfway through your allotment. See? No negativity at all. Yeah. Not the show. Everybody absolutely enjoyed it, and any feedback that was given was written down and taken into consideration.
    52:09
    Perfect. That's so great. Well, yeah, thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, anything else that you wanted to go over real quick?
    52:17
    What else can I toot, right? Right. No, no, we're good. I really appreciate you doing a great interview with us, and we look forward to talking to you again really soon. And, yeah, we could collaborate and do a podcast together sometime. Perfect. Well, thanks so much. All right, thank you, Mr. Andrew, for that interview. That was fantastic. Everybody, thanks for hanging out and listening with me. You can email me at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. Jump on the Patreon at donspinballpodcast.
    52:49
    Anyway, that's where I'm at. We're having a great time on there. There's some content that's dripping. It's got a little more background than what I get into on the official show, so check it out if you are so inclined. Medium t-shirts are in stock if you want to order one. Email me, donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. I'll get you the details. We'll get you outfitted, you skinny little guy. Anything else? I think it's time for a sultry outro a little hip hop for your click clop right be good to everybody be kind thank you for listening and be sure to drop some emails and things get out there and play some pinball I am going to play some Pulp Fiction tomorrow and I'll have some views for you later everybody