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Episode 108: Best Kept Secrets and Barn Discoveries

This Flippin' Podcast·podcast_episode·42m 8s·analyzed·Feb 3, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Tommy highlights Hot Wheels and backglass reproductions as best-kept pinball secrets while sharing location and collection updates.

Summary

Tommy Skinner discusses Hot Wheels by American Pinball as the best-kept secret of 2020, praising its code depth, build quality, and strong location earnings despite American Pinball's earlier missteps with Houdini and Oktoberfest. He also highlights Koos Hockvoort's mirrored backglass reproduction service as an underrated resource, shares impressions of Led Zeppelin and code updates, and announces recent acquisitions including a barn-find Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom and a Butterfly EM machine.

Key Claims

  • Hot Wheels earned the most revenue of any new game in Tommy's first week at his bar location, surpassing Avengers' previous record

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, episode 108, discussing his location performance data

  • Hot Wheels made up nearly 40% of Tommy's total coin drop in its second week despite being in a lineup of 25 machines

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, discussing weekly earnings breakdown

  • Joe Balser, who worked on Alien, also worked on Hot Wheels code

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner referencing code designer behind both titles

  • Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom had a production run of 365 machines, making it rarer than modern LE games

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, citing Internet Pinball Database data and Pinside owner count of 20

  • Koos Hockvoort's mirrored backglasses use a different mirroring process that looks more true to factory original than CPR's process

    medium confidence · Tommy Skinner, based on personal experience comparing CPR Flash Gordon and Koos Viking/Centaur backglasses

  • Led Zeppelin Pro is missing a crossover ramp and rising spinner mechanism found on Premium/LE editions

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, comparing Pro vs Premium editions after playing one game

  • Tommy traded a Stern Star to acquire the barn-find Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, describing the negotiation and trade process

  • Less than 50 Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom machines exist in collector hands (Pinside shows 20 owners)

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, citing Pinside data with 365 total production and 4 on location

  • American Pinball's lack of show presence in 2020 hurt Hot Wheels' market penetration

    medium confidence · Tommy Skinner, speculation about why Hot Wheels remained a hidden gem despite quality

Notable Quotes

  • “I think the game has amazing code which is not a huge surprise to me as i know joe who worked on alien has also worked on hot wheels”

    Tommy Skinner @ early in episode — Identifies code quality as a key strength of Hot Wheels, linking it to successful Alien designer

  • “Hot Wheels does I think a much better job than any of those machines at presenting players with some pretty basic and easy to understand approaches to the game”

    Tommy Skinner @ discussing game design philosophy — Explains why Hot Wheels appeals to both casual and experienced players vs competing location games

  • “If you had to be really honest, It's like today, if you put a gun to my head and were like, Tommy, you have to sell a game to pay for your guns and roses, it's that time. I'm much more likely to sell Avengers than I am Hot Wheels.”

    Tommy Skinner @ mid-episode discussing ownership conflict — Demonstrates the strength of Tommy's preference for Hot Wheels over established premium title

  • “Koos actually talked me out of purchasing his back glass. He basically said, hey, look, if you only need one back glass, it costs the same exact amount to ship to. and uh you know it's they're expensive you know so he's like if you have access to one of the states you may as well get that and save yourself some money”

    Tommy Skinner @ discussing backglass vendor service — Highlights Koos's customer-first approach and ethical business practice

  • “I am so happy so impressed if you follow our social media either our facebook page or instagram or i guess even our twitter if i would have clicked also a tweet or something on instagram um you can see some photos that i posted of the viking specifically”

    Tommy Skinner @ discussing backglass quality — Demonstrates high satisfaction with Koos's mirrored backglass reproductions

  • “the fact that those aren't on the pro um nor is the expression lighting which will be available as a mod for i think 550 dollars um the pro just feels too stripped down for me to be comfortable purchasing it”

    Tommy Skinner @ Led Zeppelin Pro assessment — Explains why Pro edition doesn't meet his expectations despite recognizing premium as premium-tier game

Entities

Tommy SkinnerpersonAmerican PinballcompanyHot WheelsgameJoe BalserpersonKoos HockvoortpersonVoltan Escapes Cosmic DoomgameJohn HawksbypersonLed Zeppelingame

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Tommy notes that American Pinball's first two titles (Houdini and Oktoberfest) did not feel good, but Hot Wheels represents a significant quality leap, suggesting internal improvements or different design team

    high · I did not care for either american pinball's first two titles with houdini and oktoberfest um they just didn't feel that good to me... i am really really impressed with hot wheels

  • $

    market_signal: Hot Wheels demonstrated stronger location earnings than established premium games (Avengers, Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park), suggesting casual players prefer accessible rule depth and universal IP over complex, niche themes

    high · its first week it was the best earning game i've ever had um which it passed avengers... hot wheels made up nearly 40 percent of my total coin drop for the past week

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hot Wheels appears to be restoring confidence in American Pinball after early product disappointments; Tommy expresses willingness to keep Hot Wheels over premium games he originally desired

    medium · I am really really enjoying it... I'm much more likely to sell Avengers than I am Hot Wheels. I enjoy Hot Wheels that much more.

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Tommy acquired ultra-rare Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom barn find and plans complete restoration including backglass, cabinet rebuild, playfield and plastic replacement

    high · i was able to pick up a Barn Fine Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom... it'll be a completely rebuilt game by the time I'm done with it

  • ?

    collector_signal: Tommy actively seeks ultra-rare machines (fewer than 50 owners, some with under 20 verified); Voltan with 365 production run and ~20 owners represents extreme rarity; trade negotiation shows collectors prioritize rarity over gameplay value

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.126

0:00
Hey, what's up everyone? This is Tommy Skinner, your host of this flippin' podcast. This is episode 108, your first episode of 2021. We're gonna discuss some changes to my location, some additions and subtractions from the collection, a few of the rumors that are floating around out there, and what I'm really excited to talk about is what I think are some of the best-kept secrets in pinball over the past year, and uh we're gonna get into that like right away because i'm sitting here on an e-learning day at school and uh kids aren't doing any work so i got some time to kill but uh first off we will start with the opinion of mine that the best kept secret in pinball over the last year has been Hot Wheels by American Pinball. I know when I recorded a brief episode to say goodbye to the terrible year that was, 2020, I mentioned that I had recently gotten to play literally just maybe two or three games on Hot Wheels at a location, Padovans, out near St. Louis. I believe it was in St. Charles, Missouri. And I was impressed. I enjoyed it, had fun, but, you know, quick initial impression. Since then, I was told that my Guns N' Roses standard edition was at least two months away. And that wasn't great because I had sold Radical from my location in anticipation of Guns N' Roses arriving. So I had some cash sitting there and I had an empty space at my location and I decided, let's reach out to some people and see if I can find myself Hot Wheels to fill the space. and I got really lucky I was able to find one that slightly used under a thousand plays on that total and was able within like three three and a half hour drive was able to go pick it up a couple days later so it worked out really well my buddy John Hawksby tagged along with me we made a road trip out of it and drove down got a little bit of food got the game hit the road came back set it up played and uh i am really really impressed with hot wheels uh i think the game has amazing code which is not a huge surprise to me as i know joe who worked on alien has also worked on hot wheels and that was one of the things that really intrigued me about it because i loved my alien code so i i kind of anticipated that um but as far as it goes for my location players um like look i love iron maiden and drasic park i think avengers is pretty good and those games have set a really high bar over the last couple years but a big part of the problem is like you got to really be into pinball to appreciate all the details and nuance and depth of those machines and Hot Wheels does I think a much better job than any of those machines at presenting players with some pretty basic and easy to understand approaches to the game as in shoot the drop target until it says build track lock a ball start a multi-ball spell battle start a battle those sort of things but then it has some of the deeper levels when you bring in the epic modes and the fact that you have these massive score multipliers that you can bring in using your rpms redline mania victory lap multi-ball that you can stack with loot mania multi-ball there's a lot of depth in there as to how to like really really take advantage of the code not exploit because there's not mistakes in there that i've found yet at least and that i haven't seen from other players posting about the game um but there's ways to really capitalize on the rules that do exist within the game to then set yourself up for success in blowing it up with a huge score um carl d'angelo i.e pinball on twitch and youtube has a great twitch highlight out there of him hitting a eight million or sorry almost an eight billion point shot in the draven mode which is like the wizard mode for the modes it's really cool to see that you could set yourself up for that sort of because that's on the machine.

  • Avengers received a code update allowing players to now battle Thanos

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, discussing recent Stern code update

  • “I like rare stuff, I like my Dragon Fist, I like my Geiger space stuff Space Rider and Lady Death that I got I like rare games, I always have, probably always will”

    Tommy Skinner @ discussing collecting philosophy — Establishes motivation for acquiring ultra-rare Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom

  • “Carl D'Angelo i.e pinball on twitch and youtube has a great twitch highlight out there of him hitting a eight million or sorry almost an eight billion point shot in the draven mode”

    Tommy Skinner @ discussing Hot Wheels depth — Demonstrates Hot Wheels' capacity for massive scores through rule stacking

    • Carl D'Angelo
    person
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Avengersgame
    CPR (Classic Pinball Restoration)company
    Michael Alexanderperson
    Butterflygame
    Aliengame
    BG Restocompany
    Planetary Pinball Supplycompany
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany

    high · there were less than 50 people who had the machine in their collection... 365 on the production run and owners are listed at 20... I like rare stuff, I like my Dragon Fist... I like rare games, I always have

  • ?

    code_update: Avengers received code update adding Thanos battle mode that Tommy had previously wanted but wasn't available

    high · Avengers i need to get more time on it... i can now battle thanos which i've only gotten to that point in the machine twice where i would have battled him anyway but he wasn't there yet and now he is

  • ?

    product_strategy: Led Zeppelin Pro omits crossover ramp, rising spinner, and expression lighting ($550 aftermarket), making Premium edition significantly better value despite higher cost; indicates Stern tiered strategy may alienate budget-conscious buyers

    high · the fact that those aren't on the pro um nor is the expression lighting which will be available as a mod for i think 550 dollars um the pro just feels too stripped down for me

  • ?

    design_innovation: Hot Wheels features novel tachometer multiplier system with five gear progression and RPM targets (redline mania, victory lap) that allow stackable multiball modes for massive score potential

    high · you have these massive score multipliers that you can bring in using your rpms redline mania victory lap multi-ball that you can stack with loot mania multi-ball

  • ?

    vendor_service_signal: Koos Hockvoort (backglass vendor) demonstrates customer-first approach by discouraging purchases of single backglasses due to shipping costs, instead recommending domestic alternatives; builds trust through transparency

    high · Koos actually talked me out of purchasing his back glass. He basically said, hey, look, if you only need one back glass... you may as well get that and save yourself some money

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Hot Wheels demonstrates higher build quality than earlier American Pinball titles with thicker cabinet wood, powder-coated support rails, and upgraded audio components

    high · the cabinet has a thicker wood that is used it feels sturdier the playfield support rails underneath are a nice heavy thick metal they're powder coated it's lit really well the sub and the shaker are really nice

  • ?

    business_signal: Tommy speculates that American Pinball's lack of show presence in 2020 (pandemic closures) significantly limited market awareness of Hot Wheels despite its quality, contributing to it being a 'hidden gem'

    medium · I think the lack of shows really hurt them in 2020 for American Pinball to get that game in front of more people

    • 4:23
    I think the game looks really, really nice. It stands out in my lineup. It's in a row of 15 machines at the bar right now, and it's one of the only machines that people comment on all the time, like, wow, that game looks unique. That's really cool. I just got rid of a game this past weekend, and the guys who came to pick it up own an arcade that's much more heavily based in arcade machines and not pinball machines, but immediately they said the same thing. Wow, that one really stands out. It looks good. I want to try it. the build quality it feels feels like it's built with better quality materials as specifically in like the cabinet has a thicker wood that is used it feels sturdier the playfield support rails underneath are a nice heavy thick metal they're powder coated it's lit really well the sub and the shaker are really nice on the machine um i am thoroughly impressed uh that being said i did not care for either american pinball's first two titles with houdini and oktoberfest um they just didn't feel that good to me i did bump the flipper power up a little bit from default on hot wheels um which helped improve that flipper feeling it still is not the same as a stern but it does feel better to me i do enjoy that aspect and then as far as like again my player base goes i mean hot wheels appeals to everyone like everyone knows what hot wheels are so it is a good license um it's not one of those things that is like a current thing kind of like the walking dead or game of thrones was or even stranger things with stern but it is a thing that is timeless um hot wheels spans generations so that has had some appeal to pretty much everyone who's walked into the space and then as far as earnings go i would say it's only been two weeks but its first week it was the best earning game i've ever had um which it passed avengers which had set that record earlier this year uh for me or late last year for a for a new game coming in like it's one week total um and then this past week i had a bit of a down week on my overall collection but hot wheels made up i have 25 machines there and hot wheels made up nearly 40 percent of my total coin drop for the past week so even when it was a slower week people were still jumping on hot wheels and still playing that game um the last few times i've gone down there that's been about the only thing i've wanted to play unless i had to like fix something else and then do some test plays on it so although i realize it's still in the middle of a pandemic and uh not everyone has access to the vaccines yet myself included luckily my parents got access i leave the appointments tomorrow on the 4th to get their first doses so that's amazing happy for them but um if you get a chance to play a hot wheels give it a shot um i think you'll be impressed It does not feel like Houdini. It does not feel like Oktoberfest. It feels like a very well done game. The sounds are really nice on the machine. The quality of the sound itself, like the physical speaker products, are nice. But the actual sound effects, the music, etc. are also very well done with the machine. I'm just really, really enjoying it. Now the problem that I've run into is, as I mentioned at the start, I picked this game up as a placeholder for the next couple months until my Guns N' Roses is ready.
    7:59
    And initially I was like, that won't be a problem. I'm not a Hot Wheels collector. I was never really into Hot Wheels. I'm not a car guy. I'm not into cars.
    8:09
    But I really appreciate a good rule set and a game that shoots well. And that's what Hot Wheels is. So now I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when my Guns N' Roses is ready.
    8:18
    Because if I had to be really honest, It's like today, if you put a gun to my head and were like, Tommy, you have to sell a game to pay for your guns and roses, it's that time. I'm much more likely to sell Avengers than I am Hot Wheels. I enjoy Hot Wheels that much more. And again, I'm enjoying Avengers. I think Avengers is a good game. It just got a code update this past week, which is great. I need to spend a little more time on the code update.
    8:43
    But as far as just going and having fun on a pinball machine, I enjoy Hot Wheels more I think it's just a better all around package than what Avengers has presented so far so again I think that was a very well kept secret in 2020 I know a few people were out there talking about how great the game is I'm by no means the first but I think the lack of shows really hurt them in 2020 for American Pinball to get that game in front of more people in addition to that with many locations being closed around the country not as many people were buying new games myself included um so seek one out try to find a location that has one a private collector near you that's willing to let you come and check it out i think you will find a lot of bang for your buck in the prices that that machine is selling for and i think you'll find a lot of fun in that package as well so that was my first uh best kept secret of 2020 as far as machines go and then my next one um this is one i learned about probably a couple years ago and i i think i just saw somebody mention the name in like a random post in back us you know they're looking for a back glass and somebody mentioned this but there is a gentleman he goes by the name and i'm probably going to mispronounce this So I apologize in advance. But Koos, C-O-O-S, Hockvoort. H-A-K-V-O-O-R-T. Koos Hockvoort. And again, I apologize for any mispronunciations. But Koos is in Holland and he makes reproduction backglasses And I think his main interest and kind of like specialty started out as Ballybingos you know like our good friend Nick Baldridge And they shared that interest, and I think that's what sent him on the path into backglass reproduction.
    10:47
    But regardless of whatever started it, he's managed at this point to get quite a few backglasses redone. and I'm assuming he doesn't deal with Planetary because of the fact that he's in Holland. I don't know about the legality details, etc.
    11:03
    But at one point last year when I was redoing my Frontier, if you guys recall, I needed a pack glass and CPR at that point hadn't released them. Coos had them and BG Resto had them. Now the advantage is BG Resto, located in the United States, cheaper to ship. I've worked with him before. Kooz is more expensive to get the glass and more expensive to ship. The advantage is his is mirrored and BGRS's is not. So I had actually reached out and something that you don't frequently see from a person selling things, Kooz actually talked me out of purchasing his back glass. He basically said, hey, look, if you only need one back glass, it costs the same exact amount to ship to. and uh you know it's they're expensive you know so he's like if you have access to one of the states you may as well get that and save yourself some money unless you already have two that you want to order from me uh etc etc so he wasn't like giving me the hard sell which i really respected and appreciated i did end up ordering from bg resto and then i ended up getting stupidly lucky on a road trip and tracking down a old stock frontier one anyway uh so i was able to get an original for my frontier restoration but with that being said coos did have a mirrored version of viking and uh he also had a mirrored version of centaur and as i've assembled my my ballet lineup in my living room my harlem my um fathom and my my frontier are all mirrored back glasses and then I've got Viking in that lineup and although I think Viking is a very beautiful game I love the artwork on that game and especially the back glass I think it's really just a nice it's a nice back glass I always felt like it should have some mirroring so I was really tempted by Kuz's and to CPR's credit they did release a mirrored Viking this year and I think they stole a lot of their mirroring concepts or borrowed the ideas of what should be mirrored on that game from what Kuz's design was and I mean realistically that's probably because those are things that maybe were at one point supposed to be mirroring in the design process and as artists they recognize what should have been and what shouldn't have been I don't know but anyway they looked similar um the problem is I bought a reproduction flash gordon mirrored back glass from CPR and I'm really not impressed with the quality of their mirroring um it's not awful and if you have a absolutely trashed back glass and you want to get one from a company with a really good reputation that's located closer they're probably a little faster etc cpr has them but because of my disappointment in the mirroring effect on my flash gordon i really wanted to give a shot to kuz because i'd heard his mirroring is a different process and it looks much truer to factory original mirroring that we would see on these classic titles so with that being said uh right around christmas i think like a day or two before i actually reached out to coos about ordering both viking and centaur and they just arrived this past monday february 1st luckily i had inclement weather in town and i was stuck at home anyway so when they arrived they didn't have to sit out on my porch or anything and uh i am so happy so impressed if you follow our social media either our facebook page or instagram or i guess even our twitter if i would have clicked also a tweet or something on instagram um you can see some photos that i posted of the viking specifically um some of the details like close-ups of the mirroring effect and some of the side-by-side with the original and even then I don't think that those photos can really capture how good the mirroring effect looks on this title so I tried to take a video up close and then like zoom it out so you can see the whole thing and then segment by segment so anyway there's a video out there um but overall I was incredibly happy with Koos's back glasses um if I need back glasses in the future for any of my titles that he has available. I will always try to find out that there's two of them to save that shipping cost as he pointed out to me. But I will be incredibly happy to support Kuz and to purchase his titles. Looking at it he does have Flash Gordon. I'm on his website right now which is kuzcoos.net slash bingo underscore e slash backglasses dot html and i'll copy that link into the show notes here but that'll take you straight to the page of back glasses he has for sale and all you have to do is email him he will tell you what he has or how long it'll be etc price and pay him but he's got like an attack from mars special mirrored one he's got a theater of magic um he's done this mirroring on some of the titles that didn't already have them and then he also just has like the original back glasses for some or I saw like one of his newest projects is he just made a back glass for Genesis which is awesome he had a mirrored version of cosmic gunfight mirrored version of centaur 2 he's got a stargazer back glass on there and a quicksilver which I both think would look great with mirroring they're not mirrored right now but I want to reach out to him and find out if he can do mirroring on those so anyway if you need a back glass i i recommend you check out coos.net again he is more expensive than cpr um it's going to be more expensive for the glass and it's going to be more expensive to ship but realistically um at least in my case like my viking back glass and my centaur back glass of my originals are already nice like they're fine i'm pretty sure the Viking was a new old stock and Centaur has maybe one little scratch. I don't think it does though. So anyway, I will have the option of, of course, selling off my originals to help defer some of the cost of these reproductions. But again, I just wanted people to know that there's another resource out there for these backglasses. Seeing he's got a Medieval Madness, he's got a Indiana Jones, a Monster Bash, like your A-plus titles.
    17:40
    And personally, I just love mirrored back glasses. I love back glasses over Translight. I like the way the glass looks, the way it feels. It feels like a high-quality product to me. And again, I'm incredibly happy with the back glasses that just arrived. If anybody is like, man, I want to see more before I commit to anything, literally, I will send you any picture or video of anything you want from the ones that I got. My Centaur machine, thanks to my friend Michael Alexander, who has been doing my playfield swap for me, is hopefully going to be done here in the near future. I need to get over there and help a bit more. I've been just really busy with wrestling at school and work at the bar and running pinball league at locations, like always. But I got that Centaur, and hopefully we'll be wrapping that up soon. I put together the displays a week or so ago. I did the Penny Tech Uno 7 digit white LED displays another product that I think is really good and Michael's been busting away on the Playfield swap so we'll be able to get that back glass in there and I can get you pictures of that one too but anyway if it's something you're interested in and you just want to see more if you're local you're welcome to always hit me up check them out in person, if you're far away I'll send you whatever pictures and video I can to try to get you to see how nice these back glasses look but those are my best kept secrets of uh 2020 and coming into 2021 check out hot wheels if you can and uh if you need a back glass at least give coos a look um he won't be your most budget-friendly option but i think as far as quality goes it's the uh the best best quality i've gotten on a reproduction back glass yet and i've used both cpr and bg resto um have not used shays at all in the past i don't know i can't speak from personal experience on shays back glasses i've always heard a really good things so there's again you got options i did want to mention there are code updates out there i already mentioned avengers i need to get more time on it i haven't i've just been playing hot wheels lately so i haven't really played the avengers code update much but it's there i know i can now battle thanos which i've only gotten to that point in the machine twice where i would have battled him anyway but he wasn't there yet and now he is so i'm curious about that Led Zeppelin did get a code update I will chime in on Led Zeppelin here with my initial impressions briefly and Stranger Things also got a code update I did play the code update on that and I have to say still not super impressed still sad still heartbroken I wish it was so much more than it is but it isn't and that's nothing I can do to change that and that's okay it's what it is I know there's people out there that love that game and that's great because not every machine needs to be for every person.
    20:25
    Now, as far as the Led Zeppelin goes, when I picked up my Hot Wheels, I got a chance to play a Led Zeppelin Pro from the distributor.
    20:34
    And I will say, first and foremost, the game looks better in person than I expected. Based on the photos I had seen,
    20:44
    I understand that the cabinet is like Led Zeppelin L-Mart, but it wasn't L-Mart that I was really impressed with on the Pro. But then you see it in person and it looks pretty good The play field while being kind of generic it reminds me a little bit of as far as the artwork side of it goes Steve Ritchie Star Trek Western and the fact that people didn really dig that art at first because it so generic um but it does a good job with the title it blends in it doesn become distracting in a way as a positive i would say and then i have to say it did sound really good the one we were playing was cranked up pretty loud and i mean one if you if you like loads up on music obviously you're gonna like the sound uh which i do but two i thought the sound effects for like the spinner specifically stood out to me as a really nice sound effect the target sounds etc the call outs it seemed to be pieced together really well um on the negative side i literally only played one game on it i had a pretty good game i got the not the grand champion but the number one high score on the machine that he had so I got you know I played a decent amount of it it did seem multi-ball heavy which again I think is good for especially for location games because that's what people want to get to and that's what they want to play and it shot really really nice the shots were smooth they were like where you thought they should be on the flipper most of the shots were backhandable which I always enjoy the one thing I will say is that upper flipper it shoots into a dead end target which is kind the train target on Adam's family on the premium and LE editions that shoots into a crossover ramp that's going to cross your playfield and the fact that that's missing on the pro I think hurts it pretty badly. I don't think it's impossible that people are going to be able to basically recreate that ramp and add it to a pro. I legitimately think some people are going to go that far on modding this machine that it'll have the ramp from the premium and le um and then of course you're also missing the rising spinner mechanism which is a really cool mac i am looking forward to eventually checking out a premium early and getting to see that mech in action i think that's very neat and i want to experience it but the fact that those aren't on the pro um nor is the expression lighting which will be available as a mod for i think 550 dollars um the pro just feels too stripped down for me to be comfortable purchasing it.
    23:18
    And the premium is just, it's not a title that I want to spend premium money on. Although I think if it's a game that you are getting, I would definitely personally recommend going with the premium edition because of specifically that extra ramp,
    23:34
    the spin-over Mac that rises out of the playfield, and the expression lighting all being built in. I also like the premium cabinet, with the actual Led Zeppelin on it. I think that looks really nice. I like it better than the Pro Cabinet. But again, it's not a game I'm interested in purchasing.
    23:54
    Definitely one that I'm looking forward to hopefully being able to find on a location somewhat near me and spending some more time on it.
    24:02
    But we'll see what happens. So that was just my initial impression. Again, one game deep on Led Zeppelin. Had fun with it. As far as new games go, as we already mentioned, I got Hot Wheels. That's at the bar. It's been there for two weeks now and I'm really enjoying it. Looking forward to playing it more.
    24:21
    I haven't been able to be down there very much right now because of wrestling season at school and work at the bar. We've got three weeks of wrestling left before state finals and I'm looking forward to having some time off and getting to play a little more pinball. I'm still waiting on my GNR and then I have a new EM machine coming. I got a Butterfly by Sonic to go with my Prospector.
    24:48
    The delivery company unfortunately called Tuesday at like 4.30pm and I was not Oh, that's the end of the class that doesn't exist. I was not near my phone and didn't get that call and when I called back the next morning they were like, oh, well the truck already left this morning get your games on it because we couldn't get a hold of you. So, Butterfly should hopefully be here next week. I'm guessing on Tuesday, it seems. But that'll be a cool EM to put in place at the location because the only EM we've had down there is Prospector. And while it's by no means making me rich, people do enjoy playing it. And I think Butterfly is a really fun game as well. And it's just really pretty. And I wanted one, so that worked out well when I saw that pop up for sale. um and then the day after this would have been whatever our most recent holiday was president's day or mlk day i can't remember i think it was president's day um it was the 18th i believe anyway uh that sunday is when we went and picked up hot wheels and then the next day i uh talked my buddy john into also tagging along with me on another trip as i was able to go and pick up a game that I've been hoping to find, but not really looking really hard or counting on it because it seemed expensive, but I was able to pick up a Barn Fine Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom. This is a game I've talked about on the show before. I got to play one a couple months ago in Nashville. I think I played the one that HEP, High End Pins, Christopher Hutchinson actually restored a few years ago. but for those of you unfamiliar it's a very low run ballet game i believe from 1980 i'm gonna double check because it's so basic it makes me think it could be 79 but i'm pretty sure it's a 1980 game yeah let's see here as i pull up no it is 79 i'm sorry february of 79 according to internet pinball database and it never saw a full production run so basically this game would have been released after playboy and before supersonic and the initial run of these machines is roughly 365 nowadays when we talk about le machines most le's have runs of at least 500 at stern Jersey Jackets usually 1,000 and this machine received a total run of 365. So you're putting it at an LE number of a modern day game, a little under that. But then you have to factor in the games that were produced around it. So Playboy that comes out right before them from Ballet does over 18,000 machines.
    27:40
    Supersonic that comes out right after it does 10,000 machines. followed by Star Trek at $16,000 and Kiss at $17,000. So this game really, really doesn't fit in to the whole cycle, essentially, with what Valley was doing at the time. But what it's known for is its beautiful art package. I picked up CPR last year, did reproduction playfields and plastics, and I picked those up at the time because my initial plan was to build one from scratch. this will make it much easier because now I have a wire harness and there is somebody willing to reproduce it and I've already offered up the wire harness for a loan if they want it but they said they've got so many other wire harnesses it'd be a while before they could even get to it. So anyway this thing showed up on Facebook Marketplace with an 8-bowl deluxe also a barn find both in just terrible shape for $150.
    28:35
    I replied within 17 minutes. I did not get the machines. Luckily, the person who did started posting about how to fix them. He's a newer collector.
    28:46
    Somebody sent me his post so I could see who had the machine. I messaged the guy and let him know why I wanted it, what I was looking to do with it, etc.
    28:58
    We talked for about a week. We finally came to an agreement. He was more interested in games than he was money. I had a Stern Star sitting in my storage unit.
    29:08
    We ended up making a trade. So from a player's perspective, Stars is a much better playing game than Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom. From a collector's perspective, Voltan is a far prettier game to look at, and it's so rare. I think the last time I had checked on Pinside, there were less than 50 people who had the machine in their collection. It might even be lower than that.
    29:38
    Let's see what Pinside says here. 365 on the production run and owners are listed at 20 and that's including me with my barn find project that's going to need a ton of work and there's four of them sorry about the bell again there's four of them on location to play one is at the museum in pinball in california another at pinball paradise in illinois another one at vintage flipper world and I don't even see a fourth one on the map so it might be international but yeah so that is basically one of the main reasons I was so interested in this title I like rare stuff, I like my Dragon Fist, I like my Geiger space stuff Space Rider and Lady Death that I got I like rare games, I always have, probably always will anyway we made that trade John wrote along with me there's not much else I can really say about the machine this time because like it's literally went straight to my storage unit it's going to need a ton of work I still need to get a bad glass PG Resto has done those so I will most likely get one from him and probably going to need a new cabinet and I already got the playfield and the plastic so it'll be a completely rebuilt game by the time I'm done with it one of the exciting things or at least things that had intrigued me is there's a story on the internet pinball database that maybe the first four six machines or something went out with a different soundboard that has prototype sounds on it that never went into production um so like that was one of the first thoughts in my head was like maybe this is that special soundboard it's not we looked it up once we got there and actually had the machine in hand and stuff so no amazing discovery of a rear pinball part there but still cool and something I was really glad to be able to pick up a project for this coming summer perhaps and I will hopefully one day be able to put out a nice and rebuilt and restored Voltan escapes cosmic doom and have more people get a chance to play a unique piece of pinball history lastly for new games I jumped in on the Alien pre-order, like, right away, I should be one of the first ones in the first batch to come over whenever they do make it here, um, I previously owned an Alien machine that I got at the Texas Pinball Festival through Cointaker, I ordered this one through Cointaker, um, I really, really liked that game, like, a lot, but mine was one of the, I think, first three or so that were in the country and it had issues um i got it to put on location because i think games should be played and not hoarded away and it wasn't holding up really well on my location so i wanted to trade it away um at at that point in time there were already rumors of the company that was highway pinball was going to be going under parts were going to be hard to come by and i didn't know that the amazing community of pinside would come to the rescue and have so many people who got a hold of the game managed to track down parts chains supply chains through china or simply reproduce parts and make them better quality had i known that was going to be the future of that machine i probably never would have got rid of my original in the first place so when the opportunity arose to get this new model made by the pinball brothers i couldn't resist so i jumped in threw my deposit down and their estimation was quarter one of 2021 they have since said they had a bit of a problem with their new physical ball lock mech and they were going back to kind of look at that it would probably cause some delays um when i paid my money for a quarter one 2021 delivery my brain immediately said sweet quarter one 2022 i I didn't expect to see that machine anytime soon, but I wanted to have a spot in line for the machine so that if it does come to fruition, I can get my hands on it, get it early, get it out on location, have people play it.
    34:08
    That's where I'm at. I listened to the interview that they did with the super awesome guys. kind of understood where they were coming from I've been following the Twitter and Instagram accounts since they first went public with those or kind of not even public, they were secretly posting things and some people were catching on to it I have faith in it, so we'll see I hope what they make is a good product I think the price it came out at was fair and reasonable and I'm really looking forward to it man like i really really liked alien so i'm excited to have that thing back um goodbye from my collection as i already mentioned i traded away stars for the vault on so i no longer have stars i don't know why there are so many bells going off right now it's really annoying um and then i just sold my super mario brothers uh and i put in my show notes fucking see ya because i fucking hated that game um it was earning me money and i still just couldn't stand to have it so that's my feelings on super mario brothers uh not a fan of the got leave system threes that game like i i said before like after having it a week i was like this isn't as bad as people made it out to be i was wrong it's it takes like two weeks and then you realize how out of this um it's decently fun to shoot but then you realize like tournament wise competition wise like there's just no point in having that game because the way the scoring and the rules work it's just not fun um and i was almost gonna say goodbye to flintstones i thought i had a deal in place to acquire a theater of magic which is like the one game that alissa really likes and wants and loves and i was gonna make it happen so i could make this trade that's why i sold Mario Brothers, the guy wanted Flintstones so I was going to trade him Flintstones and cash that I got from Mario Brothers for his Theater Magic which was a really nice Theater Magic I'll fully admit that but that's a game that I don't like but I literally like and it was going to be like a nice little sweet Valentine's Day surprise and then the guy just messaged me last night that after I've sold my game and was ready to make this deal go through, he's like I kind of like Theater Magic more than I thought I would so I'm thinking about keeping it now can i just buy your fun stones i was like no because the whole point was i was getting rid of some games from location uh to bring in a game and now i'm not so anyway that's a deal that fell apart i think i had something else like that happen in the last couple weeks too um it's been part of the problem with a lot of the newer collectors coming in um and it's not just the newer collectors just if i say i'm gonna do a deal even if i regret it um you know, I tend to go through with that as far as I can think. My Mario Brothers I posted in a private Indiana group for a lower price than I posted it publicly. Somebody there said they would take it at that price before somebody, and I posted it there a couple hours earlier before I posted it publicly, and then I had multiple people from the public price, which is like $500 more, say they wanted it at that price, and I wasn't going to, like, backtrack on what I had posted it for in the Indiana group. I just took a little less money. So, I don't know. I just wish people would stick to the deals that they put out there. But regardless, maybe a Theater of Magic remake should be coming in the future here. It's been mentioned by Rick before that that's one of the ones being remade. And then we'll get the upgrades and the big screen, etc. And I'll just wait for that. But on that note, we'll jump into some rumors. CGC, Chicago Gaming Company, Planetary Rick. They're supposed to be announcing Cactus Canyon like any day now. So I'm looking forward to seeing that.
    38:06
    Godzilla is the most recent and biggest rumor I've heard on Stern. I've heard Stern also has the license for Motley Crue. I've also heard they have a license for the Eagles. So I would expect to see those, along with maybe Back to the Future in the coming year or so. Those are just loose rumors that are out there. I don't know any sort of details. I haven't heard anything like this is happening.
    38:29
    I really, with Godzilla, it's supposed to be the Toho license. but as I've seen these previews for Godzilla vs. King Kong, man, I'm just saying it'd be really cool if it was Godzilla vs. King Kong, even if it wasn't based on the movie, but different film adaptations or comic adaptations, etc.
    38:46
    I really want a King Kong pinball machine of some variety outside of the couple prototypes from Data East that exist. I think King Kong is an awesome theme, or Skull Island is the theme, etc. I think that would be great. Love to see that. There's the always persistent James Bond rumors. they've been going on for so many years now that I've just given up hope on them but I am looking forward to that new No Time to Die film coming out, I did pick up a No Time to Die James Bond Hot Wheels car when I was at Target the other day actually so that's exciting, that's coming out this year it wouldn't surprise me completely if there's a James Bond game from Stern wouldn't mind that, Toy Story should finally be coming I do believe from Jersey Jack this year and then I don't see Jersey Jack releasing two games this year. I know they've been working towards that goal for years now, it seems, but based on how slow production seems to be going for Guns N' Roses right now, I don't think they're going to get to a second title, or two titles this year. I would assume we'll get one game this year, but that's it. And then American Pinball has been kind of, like I said, I've already praised Hot Wheels here today, and the fact that I do enjoy and appreciate Hot Wheels so much has me more intrigued in what's coming from them in the future. And as of right now, it does seem, according to their interview, that they basically have titles number four and five, like pretty far along in progress, and they could be releasing two titles this year. I would still be really surprised to see that happen, but they've had a bit of a shakeup in their staff. They've added more resources to their team. And most importantly to me, they have brought in Dennis Nordman. Dennis Norman was largely responsible for the design on the Alien machine before it was slightly modified when it went into production with Highway. And Dennis is simply a fun game designer. He mentioned that his ramps, in an interview he did, he mentioned his ramps were changed a lot in Elvira, but Elvira was his game.
    40:45
    And then whatever he could be working on there. And he's working as a lead designer with Junior Designers, I believe it was. I was explaining underneath him. So he'll be helping to mentor some new designers as well. They brought on another engineer, which is one of the things that he said he was really lacking with his machines at the last couple companies he was at, including Deep Root. Oh, and Deep Root might release a game this year, but it got delayed, so who knows.
    41:12
    So anyway, those are some of the rumors that are out there. I don't have anything concrete on those. I'm reading the same dirt sheets everyone else is, those sort of things. but hopefully we'll see Cactus Canyon real soon because it's been quite a while since CGC showed us Monster Bash which was again great all the remakes have been really well received really well done and I'm looking forward to that but that's all I got for you keeping it a pretty short sweet welcome to the new year go check out Hot Wheels if you get a chance hope everyone's doing well my location just had our best month ever in January of 2021 so the year is off to a good start we got free play tonight we got league tomorrow night and uh if i can still move around after wrestling practice i'm gonna try to go down there and get in a couple games so thanks for listening this is tommy from this flipping podcast everyone have a good day and we'll be back soon