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#117 Embryon - The Classic Pinball Podcast

The Classic Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 5m·analyzed·Aug 6, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Classic Pinball Podcast covers Embryon gameplay, design quirks, and new game announcements.

Summary

George and Dave discuss and play Embryon, a rare 1982 Valley pinball game designed by Claude Fernandez. They cover the game's playfield layout, strategy (emphasizing target bashing and spinner play), design quirks (including a misplaced rubber and non-functional flipper save), rarity (2,200 units produced), and controversial 1980s marketing due to the artwork. They also briefly discuss two newly announced games: John Wick (Stern) and Blues Brothers (Jean-Paul de Win/boutique manufacturer), with negative commentary on the latter.

Key Claims

  • Embryon was designed by Claude Fernandez; he made 2,200 units of this game.

    high confidence · George states this directly during game design history segment.

  • Embryon is rarer than Fathom (2,200 vs 3,500 units); fewer than five exist on location in arcades.

    medium confidence · George claims 2,200 Embryon vs 3,500 Fathom units; estimates under five on location based on personal experience.

  • The game has a misplaced rubber on the left flipper save that should be removed for better playability.

    high confidence · George and Dave identify and validate this from the game manual during play session.

  • Embryon faced motherhood opposition at release due to artwork that looked like an embryo, affecting sales.

    medium confidence · Dave mentions mothers were 'up in arms' about the back glass imagery; George confirms awareness of controversy.

  • John Wick pinball (Stern) is expected to be heavily modded by the community ('Modland').

    medium confidence · George predicts aftermarket mods for guns, skull toppers, and NYC skyline artwork based on film themes.

  • Blues Brothers pinball was made by Jean-Paul de Win's company (boutique manufacturer), not Stern or other major manufacturers.

    high confidence · George explicitly reveals manufacturer identity after Dave's guessing game; references prior games from same company.

  • Blues Brothers is expected to sell a few hundred units at best, not a blockbuster, despite IP recognition.

    medium confidence · George characterizes sales outlook for boutique Blues Brothers release vs potential for John Wick mainstream appeal.

  • Fathom (1983, Valley) implemented double/triple playfield multiplier based on ball count; Embryon should have had same feature from factory.

    medium confidence · George argues Embryon's designer missed opportunity to match Fathom's software design despite same platform/memory.

Notable Quotes

  • “My favorite part of this game is that flipper and bashing that bank of targets as many times as I can in as many seconds as I can.”

    George @ early gameplay discussion — Defines primary gameplay strategy and appeal for Embryon; target-bashing is core mechanic.

  • “I tried to tell you this earlier and I'm going to say it one more time you do not want to invite your best friend here to... look at that it's right there there it is rubber rubber bear ball left side.”

    George @ game inspection segment — George validated his earlier observation about the misplaced rubber by consulting the manual; establishes attention to design details.

  • “These are rarer than fathoms. I have one. Yeah. Good to have one.”

    George and Dave @ rarity discussion — Establishes Embryon's scarcity in the collector market; motivates ownership despite niche appeal.

  • “I'm calling it Modland. Meaning people are going to mod the crap out of the game. You watch.”

    George @ John Wick discussion — Predicts heavy customization culture around John Wick; indicates strong collector interest and IP potential.

  • “The crappy company that made Thunder Churds... The Winner. And, oh, from the company that brought you Thunderbirds and Spinal Tap, we have the Blues Brothers.”

    George @ Blues Brothers reveal — Highly negative characterization of boutique manufacturer; sets negative tone for Blues Brothers reception in community.

  • “You watched the video once. First impressions? It looked pretty good. It's worth a couple games. I'd play it.”

    Dave on John Wick @ new game reactions — Indicates tentative positive first impression despite limited game time; suggests playability baseline met.

  • “People will get to play it... That's a good thing. But you've got to go to something like Pin Maps.”

    George @ location play discussion — Acknowledges difficulty in finding Embryon on location; encourages seeking out pinball-focused venues.

Entities

GeorgepersonDavepersonEmbryongameClaude FernandezpersonJohn WickgameStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Historical controversy around Embryon artwork at release: motherhood/parental groups objected to 'embryo-like' imagery and design, limiting mainstream market appeal.

    medium · Dave: 'mothers were up in arms with the back glass saying, looks like an embryo'; George confirms awareness; suggests this affected sales/cultural acceptance.

  • ?

    community_signal: Collector/enthusiast sharing culture around rare machines; George owns three Embryon units; validates rarity with production numbers.

    medium · George mentions owning three Embryon machines; compares to Fathom rarity; characterizes as 'good to have one.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Rochester Pinball Collective acquiring Embryon for public location play; positive community validation of rare machine's accessibility value.

    high · George praises Mark for bringing Embryon to open arcade; encourages listeners to visit and play; characterizes as 'good thing' for community.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Embryon's software (as originally shipped) lacked multiplier-based on ball count feature that Valley implemented in Fathom one month later; George argues this was a missed design opportunity.

    medium · George: 'when they made this game, they should have done this from the factory, because Fathom did it... they should have done the same freaking thing.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Embryon prioritizes target bashing/flipper skill mechanics over story/rule complexity; core gameplay loop is straightforward but execution-demanding.

    high · Both hosts repeatedly emphasize target bashing as primary strategy; George characterizes as 'perfecting your shooting skills' rather than complex rule set.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.195

0:00
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George and his name is Dave. Hello Dave!
0:16
While Dave is hobnobbing with the rich and famous out in Martha's Vineyard in Nantucket, and I'm here in Virginia sweltering from the heat, I decided to reuse some footage I had left over from the weekend Dave spent here back in May after PinFest. This episode contains recordings from one night and one day when Dave visited, and then there's a bonus feature of a couple of minutes recorded back in 2019, December of 2019. so one of our earlier tries at Embryon we just didn't have enough content and didn't know what to do with it so I just saved it and I'll include it you can do a compare and contrast and take a look at how we did so without further ado, enjoy Embryon tell us about this Embryon shall we go? we're going let's try something different this time Before we get to play the game, let's try to describe the play field and how you and I might play the game. I think you and I play the game fairly similar, but other people play this game totally different. so when you plunge the ball it makes I guess a 180 maybe more down to a flipper upper right flipper into a three bank target bank which is your bonus area three of the six symbols will help you spell embryon I don't know about you Dave but I never care basically that's called the bash bank bash that all day long My favorite part of this game is that flipper and bashing that bank of targets as many times as I can in as many seconds as I can. Now, once you get the extra ball out of there and get the multiplier out of there, then I would take the upper right flipper and go through the gate with the 1-2 multiplier. So you don't complete it.
2:31
Well, once you've done all of it, there's three things to get. If you get all three. Then why bother? The rest is just get a letter. Right, but then it resets and it goes back. Can you stack an extra ball? Oh, you can stack. I don't think you can stack, but I think you might be able to. Extra ball next time around.

Embryon may have been the first ballet/multiball game with flashers.

low confidence · George speculates about flasher history but acknowledges uncertainty ('I think').

  • Mark from Rochester Pinball Collective is bringing Embryon to an open arcade location for public play.

    medium confidence · George mentions this as a positive community contribution and encourages listeners to visit.

  • “This is a four flip or pinball. Yeah. This guy's hardly ever used, but yeah. He's good.”

    Dave on broken flipper save @ technical assessment — Game is functionally playable despite the design flaw; characterizes the broken element as rarely-used anyway.

  • “They ruined Spinal Tap. They ruined everything. That guy, he's... Franchise Wrecker.”

    George @ Blues Brothers criticism — Establishes pattern of negative IP adaptations attributed to boutique manufacturer; creates community nickname.

  • “Embryon me, the best part of this game is the time... the sixth station wheel with... upper flipper is the flipper you just want smash those targets until you get every three down.”

    George @ second game setup — Reinforces core gameplay loop and design philosophy for Embryon; emphasizes skill ceiling and player agency.

    • Blues Brothers
    game
    Jean-Paul de Winperson
    Valleycompany
    Fathomgame
    Markperson
    Rochester Pinball Collectiveorganization
    The Classic Pinball Podcastorganization
    Dave Marstonperson
    PinFestevent
    Pin Mapsproduct
    Martha's Vineyardlocation
    Neil McRaeperson
    Allentownlocation
    Spinal Tapgame
  • ?

    licensing_signal: John Wick IP has strong thematic elements (guns, headshots, assassin aesthetic) driving aftermarket customization expectations and collector appeal.

    medium · George predicts modding community ('Modland'); lists expected mods: guns, skulls, NYC skyline, headshot toppers; anticipates high collector interest.

  • $

    market_signal: Blues Brothers boutique release expected to move only a few hundred units despite IP recognition; contrast with mainstream Stern potential.

    medium · George: 'as a boutique game you might be able to sell a couple hundred units, it's not going to be a blockbuster.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Neil McRae appears as community voice/social media early adopter; first to publicly critique Blues Brothers announcement.

    medium · George states 'Neil McRae in England was the first one to post' negative reaction to Blues Brothers announcement.

  • ?

    announcement: Blues Brothers pinball announced by Jean-Paul de Win's boutique manufacturer; official reveal after guessing game.

    high · George confirms Blues Brothers announcement; reveals manufacturer identity through process of elimination; Neil McRae posted negative reaction.

  • ?

    announcement: John Wick pinball officially announced by Stern; two new games revealed this period (John Wick and Blues Brothers).

    high · George and Dave discuss John Wick as newly tested game; Dave provides first impressions after playing; confirmed Stern manufacturer.

  • ?

    product_concern: Embryon has known design flaw (misplaced rubber on flipper save) and non-functional flipper save; affects playability but not game viability.

    high · George and Dave identify and validate flaw from manual; George plans repair; describes game as effectively 'four ball game' due to flipper failure.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community negative reception toward Jean-Paul de Win manufacturing track record; 'Franchise Wrecker' characterization suggests reputation damage from prior releases.

    high · George and Dave characterize prior games (Thunderbirds, Spinal Tap) as failures; George invents 'Franchise Wrecker' nickname; Neil McRae expresses disappointment publicly.

    • 2:48
    I don't know. Once you get them all, it'll go back. Well, right, because this game will carry. So, yeah, you could probably get the extra ball. Again. Drained, and it'll carry over to the next. Never really gave it much thought because you can accumulate enough points where that really doesn't matter. Yeah, we're in your house In your house, get a good enough high score You're an extra ball in anyway Well, we have the threshold So you get extra balls You have more than an opportunity to roll this game Because it's only a six-digit game You have lots of extra ball opportunities You get your thresholds You have your bash-bang extra ball You get your one-two lane change extra ball You have your captive ball extra ball On the left But most of that stuff I don't pay attention to To me, it's spinner, bonus, bash the targets. And the captive balls, I don't bother because. And every cycle, why haven't you talked about the center of the play field?
    3:47
    I never. To me, that's death shot. Hitting the boop balls in the middle of the game. Yes, no, maybe so. What are you looking at? Somebody crawling, spider? No. I'm thinking this guy here, this rubber, I don't think he belongs there. on the left.
    4:07
    Yeah, he should not be there. It should be there. He should be naked like this guy. Bare ball right there. And this should just be single. I don't think it should be in front.
    4:19
    I don't think that rubber should be in front of that ball. Heather removed right away. Guard. You know what we have, don't you? What do we got? We got the manual over there. Yeah. Let's go see. look at you see folks I tried to tell you this earlier and I'm going to say it one more time you do not want to invite your best friend here to I'm right sweet look at that it's right there it is rubber bear ball left side have that done that's right validated I'm really glad we did this podcast. So, so super.
    5:11
    Not only does my game energize you, it's got the wrong rubber. It had something wrong with that laying over by the, what do they call it? The extra flip? Yeah. No, it's the flip save. Flip save. There you go. Yeah, that little rollover didn't work. so it never, even though it energizes, it would never sink. So this is really a four flip or pinball. Yeah. This guy's hardly ever used, but yeah.
    5:45
    He's good. You could actually make this easier by... So we haven't, we've only gone on one side of the game. So the other piece of the game is getting it up to the left side into the triple lanes up top, the two outer lanes. No lane change. right which really hurts does um but that will give you your multiplier so it's really a left side game get your multiplier how do we get the uh what do we have to get the ball up in the saucer two times to light the uh spinner forget that forget it doesn't matter you want to light the spinner whatever you have to do yeah it's something, but I think it's what I just said. That's important.
    6:34
    Other than that, the center thing with the hoop balls. The brain thing is the spelling embryo. I stay away from that because nothing good happens when you hit that ball. You only do that when you've scored so many points and you meet the threshold that you play with that. But completing embryon lights the saucer for multiball. That's the only way we can get that?
    6:55
    Oh, the multiball. I don't care about that. I care about the spinner. But if you have special software, the multi-ball can give you two times play field values. We don't have special software. If you have regular. We're lucky we have a game now. Right.
    7:07
    Mr. Croco. Always wanting to add the. What was that thing you showed me today that you said, oh, this is a fix for people who don't want to fix.
    7:19
    That little thing in the pouch. You had like 10 of them. Oh, yeah, yeah. The KHR thing. Yeah. Yeah, the 5-volt fix, 12-volt 5-volt fix, yeah. Okay. That's the cheap.
    7:32
    Cheap fix. The cheap fix. Okay. Anyway, so do we leave anything out? Not really. Not really, except for it's really cool to go for these little three targets and left to get the captain ball. Right, but I have it butchered, so it doesn't really work right. Well, it'll work. It's just a little harder. Oh, and that's good.
    7:55
    That's bad. Okay. Anything else? Did I do something else wrong? You've done it all wrong.
    8:09
    Here, honey. Try this. Mmm. Looks like our regular orange-colored frozen substitute for artificial morning breakfast beverage with pulp-like particles added. Wrong, honey. But, but, look. Pulp-like substances, just like the concentrate that tastes almost like fresh. But doesn't cost like the concentrate that tastes almost like fresh. You mean this natural-tasting morning breakfast beverage with a flavor almost like fresh squeezed that tastes better than frozen and better than those reconstituted substitutes for artificial morning breakfast drink is actually pennies less per serving than those concentrates that taste almost like fresh and have Pope-like substances? Wrong again, honey. Why the fuck don't you stop saying wrong again, honey, and throw this fucking stuff in the toilet, and get out there, and get me some fucking orange juice!
    9:11
    No, I'm just about optimizing. I just, like, I optimize. Your game is great. It plays great. I just, if I can make improvements, I will. It's kind of like fine-tuning an engine. It's kind of like, you know, what's a super Mercedes you can do when you put this stuff in a Mercedes to make it super duper? Money. Money, that's true.
    9:31
    There's something else, but some of the audience will know what I'm talking about. Money. Right, money.
    9:37
    But, yeah, this little metal thing here on the side, that's got to go. A little metal guy. I pitched that. Metal laying guy. It would make this a lot more forgiving. In the divided slingshot on the left where the bottom of the slingshot. Because once it goes down there, it's no man's land and you're screwed. Pretty much. But without that there, you have a chance. I give you a liberal shake, so you can try. A little bit, yeah. You can try.
    10:04
    So that's pretty much the game, right? That's the game. It's a good game. It's basically Class of 81, Valley. Most people probably have never played one of these. What do you think? Probably not, because back in the day, the mothers were up and on. I never played this game. Mothers were up in arms with the back glass saying, looks like an embryo, and it's kind of wacky. Yeah, and it's not a real... It's not something you really want to... It's sci-fi. It's almost like Alien. It's kind of like, you know... I just think the guy in the real weird blue skin-tight suit with the goggles is just kind of weird.
    10:44
    Yeah, it's a little strange, isn't it? He looks like he's in a scuba suit, but he's not. He looks like the guy from The Matrix Mr. Anderson Anyway You want to play a game? Sure One time? Best of? Best of Okay One time, one time only Best of one? Best of one Wow, that's pretty Three ball best of one Give all the up you just said It's a four ball game Give all the Is it?
    11:12
    Is it? Can I set this to four ball? I'm pretty sure it's four ball if the cabinet is. I bet you it's four balls. Anyway, but you just said we have all the opportunities to earn extra balls. So show us how it's done.
    11:29
    It's functional. Everybody's just sitting there going, how do you know what I'm doing? We've only had him for 30 years. We don't know everything. I played the game It's good I got the one That's action Oh, it's flying It's snappy Even though you hate the limited I do hate the It's still snappy It'll be snappier Good Out in the right lane it goes My turn. 36,000. Oh, goody. I got my glasses off. Dope.
    12:22
    Okay, we'll rumble that right now. Okay. Let's put the glasses on so we can actually see what the hell we're doing.
    12:32
    Okay. On the right flipper, we're going to go up to the spinner on the left, hopefully. Let's see. Yeah, not enough. Up top to the right. Nope. Wow, I'm really off. This is sucky.
    12:48
    Oh, man. Okay. Wow. Oh, God. Oh, man. Bad. Oh. Really bad ball. So. It's a race to the ball. Dr. Dave 36. Don't go. George 19.5.
    13:04
    That always happens. Let's try again. Stage fright. Come on. All right, there we go. A little spinner.
    13:21
    That's nice. Take that. Well, you've got to hit it again. Oh, that's right. Oh, you've got to qualify. Oh, no. Qualify. True. You've got to hit them both. You've got to hit twice to get them together. Right. It's not that much of a gimme. This ain't no ramp game. No, no, no. You've got to run everything. This is a fun game.
    13:42
    This is perfecting your shooting skills. Oh, I like that. That's sweet. Another one. Wow. Take it. Take it when it gives it.
    13:56
    That's a large deal. Now I got a spinner lit. Oh, wow. That was bad. Almost to the 20 threshold. I got you. You got better. Here we go. This is doable. Electric over the roof.
    14:35
    Okay. Let's get this thing going. No, not like that. Horrible. Wow. Ball three. Right. Very bad on both accounts. I said one game, one game only. Sorry. Come on.
    14:55
    I got a letter. Big deal. All right. We're back up top. Stop now if you don't want to play this game. We'll play again.
    15:08
    I'll play again. Okay, okay, okay, good. I'll give you the chance. Let's go. Come on. Come on, show me number two. All right, number two.
    15:24
    All right, and off we go. There we go. So you've got all those rollovers. That's a big piece. That's a lot of points. So you're ready to eat. You need 20. There you go. 1920.
    15:41
    So, he's on ball three, but it doesn't matter. That's worth something. There we go. More points. Keep going.
    15:56
    Not there. Keep going. He's getting there. He keeps slapping he keeps slapping He still needs that left lane to light the push and shove.
    16:29
    But he's strong. Come on, Tim. There it is. There you go. Now he's got two times. Get another one. He's over 20. He's got 30. Suck. Okay. Maybe. No, no, no. You're not even close. 420. I'll make a next ball. Well, you're kicking me, so I got a big hill to climb here. Let's see. I need an extra ball is really what I need.
    16:59
    I need an extra ball. Here we go. Papa needs an extra ball. Let's see what he gets. That'll make him a three ball.
    17:08
    Okay. Let's go. Here we go. Up we go. Let's hit that. And there we go. A little bit more points. We're up to 20-something. Come on, let's get in the saucer. We're not there yet. Okay, up to the spinner. Nope. Missed the shot. There we go. Let's go for multipliers. We need multipliers. Up to the top again. Let's go. Okay, up to the right. Nope. And up to the left. Here we go. Let's get it in. And here we go. Two times. So we're two times what? 30. Not quite. Up to the right. Over the rollovers and close. Here we go. Let's go. Let's see. Every time we catch Dave.
    17:51
    Need some prayers here. Here we go. Up to the right. I need that target. Upper target. And let's try to get three times. We got one, two, we got more bonus. We need to get three times. Do we hear three times? No, we don't, but we're up to the right, and we're over the rollovers again, and we get the targets down, and here we go. Do we have a chance to get extra balls? No, maybe not yet. Collect bonus. What's the LL? Collect bonus. And we got the spinner lit. Okay, we got the circus going. And it went, oh, down the right lane. Todd, give it a good shot. Nice. Look at him come along.
    18:31
    Wow. Beat him by three. 3,000 points he came back from behind. 360 to 319. Not bad. He suckered me into ball three. That's a ball four game. This is a Claude Fernandez game design.
    18:47
    And the only games he made a lot of stinkers. The only games he made that were good were Blackout, 1980. He made this game every year. He made Flash Gordon. That's another design he did. Skateball, Torpedo Alley, and Spectrum.
    19:04
    So he made some weird games. Electrum as well. Electrum was a good game. The only game he really made that knocked out the park was Flashboard in the 10,000 game.
    19:14
    He made 2,200 of these. These are kind of, these are as rare as like Fathom. So, I don't know. It's a rare game. You ever seen this game in a show? No. Never. I mean, they're sold in the show, but you don't see this very often, so I'm glad I have... I think I have three of these. I have three. You have three of these? I have three of these.
    19:37
    I need to get one of those. Yeah. They made 3,500 fathoms and 2,200 of these. These are rarer than fathoms.
    19:47
    I have one. Yeah. Good to have one. Shall we play a game? No. No? Mm-hmm. Let's go. Oh, yeah. Peace out. Jump.
    20:17
    Here we go. Oh, come on, give me that. And our work on this game by Tony Ramuni. First game he ever did. Did a lot of stinkers. Nope, not the first game. He did Scorpion, William Scorpion 1980. He did Alien Poker 1980, Black Knight. dated Embryon, electric, gold balls, 500 feet to clock, 8-hole champ,
    21:30
    motor dome, that's a big stinker, heavy metal, heavy metal meltdown, stinker, blackwater 100, not that good, Mac Attack, it's all above Kona McDonald's, and, it is? It's not really, but I didn't say it is.
    21:44
    And, what's in that? Uh, it's from Mr. Game, whatever Mr. Game was. I've heard Mr. Game, Mac Attack, I should put the Mr. Game. Ha! My name is Mr. Game.
    21:56
    Can't be a little... This looks like junk. Let's see. Okay, screw all this. I've got a... We've got something else to talk about. What do we got?
    22:06
    Okay. So what did I talk about today? No, yesterday. Oh, boy. The new game. There, he tested me. Two new games. Okay, so it's... Pick your poison. Which one do you want to talk about? John Wick. Okay, I knew you were going to pick that one because you don't remember the other one. Don't forget the other one.
    22:25
    So, I know nothing about John Wick. Everybody knows George didn't watch any of those movies. I watched them all. George watched them all. I don't know anything about them. George watches TV. Dr. Dave watches movies. Right. Two different things. So, I know nothing. You watched the video once.
    22:47
    First impressions? It looked pretty good. It's worth a couple games. I'd play it. I'm calling it Modland.
    22:56
    Meaning people are going to mod the crap out of the game. You watch. First mod, who's going to be the first one to market to make the... Guns. A lot of guns. Well, that too. But who's going to do the New York skyline instead of a plexiglass? Or plastic. Who's going to do a skull?
    23:16
    I guess. Oh, come on. low-hanging fruit. Yeah, probably, yeah. Low-hanging fruit. What about a topper? A $2,000 topper? So what would it be? I don't know. Well, you've watched four movies. You tell me. What's the... What's like the most associated thing with John Wick?
    23:38
    Guns. Lots of guns. Yeah, pretty much a lot of headshots. He's just kind of shooting people in the head all the time. Okay, so... Instead of Bond where it's 007 with the handgun, it will be a head on one side and a gun on the other side. And like splat. No, the gun shoots, you see the smoke, and the head bobs back, and that's the topper. Much better than that Munchkin thing on Labyrinth.
    24:07
    Yeah. Whatever that thing is. I had a chance to play that again for nobody in line, and I said, eh, don't really need to. What do you think of those sculpts on the top? I don't know. Right. Fair. Just saying. Fair. It reminded me of frickin' We Don't Need Another Hero. What's the frickin' Thunderdome? It reminded me of Thunderdome with the guy, like, two men enter, three men flee, or whatever the frickin' it was. Can we talk about another thunder? Yeah, like what? What was your reaction last night when I said, you know there's a new pinball, right? and you're like, John Wick wasn't out yet, guys, so relax. He's like, no, what are you talking about? And I go, the Blues Brothers? Yeah, and I said, oh, that sounds pretty good. And I said, guess who put it out? He just gave like five tries, but he finally got through. And I said, okay, maybe it's Spooky? No. I said, Stern? No. I said, American Pinball? No. I said, uh-oh, we're getting down there. Lower. And I said, the crappy company that made Thunder Churds?
    25:20
    Win. Where's that bell? Winner. Winner, winner. And, oh, from the company that brought you Thunderbirds and Spinal Tap, we have the Blues Brothers. Oh, my God. Neil.
    25:38
    Neil McRae in England was the first one to post. I'm as disappointed I have two movies on my iPhone one is Blues Brothers the other is out of my house they horrible, ruined you're going to wreck a franchise as usual I think as a boutique game you might be able to sell a couple hundred units, it's not going to be a blockbuster but it's better than frickin' thunder crap. I mean, they ruined Spinal Tap. They ruined everything. That guy, he's... Sorry. He's called Franchise Wrecker. I don't like him. Why didn't they make a pinball machine called Franchise Wrecker? Just do that. Put his face on it. That would sell. Franchise Wrecker.
    26:32
    Well, that could be... Somebody do a homebrew. Homebrew, right. They should. I'd buy it. defamation suit ruining my character that is funny though you know what there might be a handful of people that might be on that back last might have more than one person from the pinball franchise record? yeah it would you could put Buck Money birthday ball on there I was thinking of John with a P but I'm not going to say his last name, you fill it in. Don't say it. Yeah, you do. Oh, he was part of the theater. Theater, okay. I'll figure it out. No, stop. I'll figure it out eventually. Yeah, theater, don't mention it.
    27:24
    You know who that is. Oh, you suck. I should have done that. That was stupid. I next of all and everything. Door open to George. Low playing game. John Ma Man.
    27:36
    Don't say it. Ma, man. Oh, now I got it. Yeah, well, it took you a while. How many tongues do I have to speak in Jesus?
    27:50
    I don't want to get sued. Oh, did you see how fast that came around? You broke 100,000. Nice job. Yeah, I'm not paying attention. I'm thinking about all the crap we're talking about.
    28:01
    We have to do this again. I don't know. It's there. Good. It's pretty. You know, folks, I just want to say this. If it makes the cut,
    28:11
    I'd probably have an hour and a half of Embryon play. I've got to whittle it down to something you actually want to listen to.
    28:19
    Well, people like Embryon. They don't play us here every day. Play us every day? We have stuff from like two or three years ago.
    28:28
    Embryon? Yes. You do? My Embryon or your Embryon? Mine. I'm not asking you to remember. Davey fairly remember yesterday. Good point. Right.
    28:41
    I listened to it. So we're up there at your place in New Hampshire. We just turned on the when we started to go. And then I said, nah, I can't We never used it.
    28:53
    I said I might have put that. But I haven't listened to it. It might be better than this. Compare and contrast. We could do a little retro. That was kind of the idea, but everybody... I'm not so sure how many people like our experiments. No, people like when we play the game.
    29:14
    I mean, look at the little bonus clock in the middle. Sort of like Quicksilver. This is a great game.
    29:22
    People don't like this game because sometimes it's a wide body, but I don't ever look at this game as a wide body. I think it's well-balanced. There's a lot of real estate taken up here by this big freaking brain. We don't shoot that thing because if you hit that ball, it might go straight down. My thought is always, if you get to the brush hold or close, you're going to make it to the next. You get a ball, bash that thing. See, this is where it makes sense. If you had this software in this game where you get multi-ball equals double playfield values, you would definitely go for this embryo. I'm telling you that's wrong. I think it's good. I'm just saying, when they made this game, they should have done this from the factory, because Fathom did it. Did they have enough memory? Yeah. Fathom was the same freaking thing. About a month later, they made Fathom. They had two balls out, two times. Three balls out, three plays. They should have done the same freaking thing. But the software designer was not the same as this one. They did stupid crap. But that's all right. Actually, I think this was the first ballet game with flashers. These are flashers. Do you have some of those bulbs? Are they 906s?
    30:41
    They're big MFers, whatever they are. Yeah, they didn't have... I have a bunch of them. Bidibidibidibi.
    30:50
    This would be kind of a... Again, I probably bought them when I bought the game 20 years ago. I bought the flashes and I just put them in a box and said if I ever need them I'll have them I've never had to replace them because you don't use them that often I don't most people don't play that part of the game it's a cool part of the game but it's risky this would be a neat game in a tournament bringing this to like Allentown I don't think I've ever seen this game in a tournament but I think it's cool and I said it earlier that guy Mark from Rochester Pinball Collective. That's really cool that they're going to have that game at an open arcade. People will get to play it.
    31:38
    Give them a shout. That's a good thing. But you've got to go to something like Pin Maps. I know there's other occasions. Hey, George. Hey, Dave. Dummies. We have an arcade. Sorry. I'm not on Pin Maps right now. But there probably is. but it's probably few and far between. I take you over under that there's less than five on location. Are you sure you want to attract people by saying, hey, dummies, come over here.
    32:07
    You know what I'm saying. I don't mean it that way. Sorry, folks. You're not dummies. Okay, Dave. Oh, you had something in your side. I got it in my head.
    32:26
    I feel bad. Wow it a nice low playing scores Low score wins Play that way Alright, let's see if we can get something done here. How about the spinner? No. How about the top?
    32:43
    Let's get that last drop target. Stupid linear flipper. We have to change that. Sack You want to know something? That's really weird Never ever noticed it before Every time you hit the flipper Or hit the Yeah that Oh the lights messed up The socket screwed up Lights off more work for you go home I'll give you a whole list you already did next time Dave I'll go through the inspection the next time ok screw you I gotta win this is this it right we're really bad we didn't pay a ton A little bit. Okay, screw that. Let's... I'm better than this.
    34:11
    Well, those upper three drop targets, can he do it? Maybe. Yeah. I know it is. I'm short. Not short on that. I got that shot. I need the multiplier. No. Oh, that's a good shot. I need the multiplier. Bad.
    34:47
    No. I hate that sound. Yeah, but... That's a race to the bottom. What? Okay, no more recording. I'm done. Alright, no more recording. I'm done.
    35:04
    That's the... Incubator functional. Alright, Embryon, Marshall, Virginia. Ball three, Dr. Dave, 313, 790. George, 169, 920. Going to ball three.
    35:21
    Let's see what we do here. Oh, I don't want that. Okay. Oh. Oh, you. All right, Joe. The bifurcation left side is no fun. Here we go. Smash ball.
    35:55
    Not what I wanted, but up, go around. Oh, yeah. Drop target time. One, two, in. Give me three. Give me three steps. Mr. and give me the drain. Game.
    36:16
    All right. Game one, Doc. Going to game two. Best of three series. Go for it. Do you want to do commentary? Sure.
    36:32
    So those unfamiliar with the game, this is a three flipper. Wide body, down. To me, the best part of this game is the time. It's why it is always disintegrated on almost every embryo, because it's the sixth station wheel with...
    36:56
    I didn't press two players out. Oh, conveniently. I get all distracted. Oh, what, did you pull a bow? Yeah, pretty bad. Yeah, bow. Call me bow. You pull a bow. Tell me the neighbor.
    37:09
    The neighbor and his hijinks. So as I was saying, three out of the six on the wheel are spelling letters for embryon, which I really don't care about. The others are collect bonus, add bonus, whatever it is. It doesn't matter.
    37:36
    The whole idea is that upper flipper is the flipper you just want to smash those targets until you get every three down and continue to do it as long as you can and as fast as you can. Exactly. That's my strategy. Keep smashing those targets. That's basically my strategy. Is there more to this game than that?
    37:57
    I guess there is more, but that's really the most important part of this game. You can kind of tell when you ever get one of these. See, like that, if you look at the left side of the game. You know, last time the game, I actually took that metal bracket out of there to get more and more bounce. You can bounce it around there. It didn't make it as brutal. You pull it around. You know what I'm saying? I pull it out. I've done that before. It's more, I don't know, it's more happy fun ball.
    38:23
    Okay. You're not talking. No, I see what you're saying. I never really gave it much thought, to be honest with you. Okay, here we go. You made a nice, you gave it like a 10% edge, you know, a little bit. Okay, so there's a saucer up top. It's helpful because it lights the rollovers up top, which are worth a bonus.
    38:46
    And as long as you get ten bonus, it holds until the next ball. You can go up to, what, 49 on this game? Five times bonus. There's two lanes on the top left of the game. get them in the two outer ones, not the middle one, and you advance the bonus from 2, 3, 4 to 5. So there's actually four bonus stages. It's a pretty cool game, but like I said, the fun part is the upper right part of the play field. I just got a resource, I just hit two targets down, and now I'm just going to shoot it up.
    39:22
    Oh, I have the spinner left. Oh, that's right. And that's worth a lot right now. So as long as that red target is lit on the upper left side, you want to spin that spinner all day long. But I'm a pig and I love targets, so I just keep going back. And I just dropped all the drop targets. So I do not play this game conventionally. If you were to play this game in a tournament, people would call me, well, I'm not allowed to say it, but it's the R word, and it's not retired.
    39:55
    Okay. I guess I'm making my point. I just lost the ball, but it's okay. Not bad. Nah, it's okay. Ball two, 62,000 to George, 161. He's giving me about 100,000 points right now.
    40:11
    Right, but you have the free ball up top, so you get the other two extra balls. If you get those two targets, then you get an extra ball. And don't do that. Right, but the best part is it holds on. All good.
    40:27
    Right. On this case, I don't know if it's a feature, folks. Again, don't come to me for facts and features. Talk to Dave Marston. He's like the best when it comes to that.
    40:44
    I like to read that stuff. Love you, Dave. Hey, thanks, George. No, not you. Oh, that Dave. Dave Marston. Oh, little Dave. I'm Big Dave.
    40:56
    Dave Marston. And he's okay. He corrects us all the time. Yeah, you know. He should. He feels, yeah. I'm gonna use the fact check. I'm gonna put some color changing LEDs in here when I set mine up. Yeah? And kind of glow a little bit. That'd be nice isn't it?
    41:15
    Easy mode. This is a very, I don't know. I think it's a cool game but some people might not. Let's go to, we've got a bad rap of the day. Yes, I'll take that. No, we'll get out of there. Yeah.
    41:32
    This game is so tough. What fun would it be if it was easy? That's true. So you've got... You did that target to get the extra ball. I do, I know. There it is. Thank you. I'll take that. Okay, so Dave just got an extra ball by hitting the target.
    41:50
    Because one of the... The three bonuses is extra ball. But it stays lit so you can't get it until you complete the other two bonuses. You need a lofty score to get a free ball, 420. This game used to be a lot easier and I don't know what I did, but I made it much more difficult. Oh yeah, it's tough. Right, but it wasn't... I used to be able to roll this game every time I played it. Not anymore. So I happen to like it in this format.
    42:40
    You know what you have to do. It's not very complicated. Go up top. You need to get the bonus. The upper left where you just were is where you get your multiplier.
    42:54
    Okay, what else do you need to get? Everything else is ancillary. Those are the two biggest things. Oh, that's nice. Thanks a lot.
    43:02
    I mean, it's nice to get an extra ball. It's nice to collect bonus early. You know, I don't know. What's the third one? Do you know? Because my game is so roached, you can't read them.
    43:13
    Spots multiply. Oh, spots multiply. So that's a big one So if you get that bonus It's a multiplier Right but there's only three The other three are spelled letters Do you ever care? You never care What does that do? I don't even know No that doesn't activate that Completing Ambriana the first time Lights top right sausage So that gives you the multi ball You get the special wrong software How do you know that? You think I would know this after on the game for how long, but I just played the game. Okay, there you go.
    43:50
    And no lane change in one or two. No, no, no, that was horrible. I think I might have you, I think. I did.
    43:58
    Gabe wins. That's one. Oh, that's two. Oh, I got you on that one. You did? I did. I just gapped the ball.
    44:06
    Well, we'll go again just because. So let's concentrate on the piece I asked you before we sat down Yeah Instead of trying to beat each other Let's try to figure out How do those middle yellow targets work? What do we have to do to get those to act? You have to hit the brain in the middle I think you have to hit the target itself Well now hit the target after it's lit So you have to hit the middle and that'll light another one of those? Yeah. So keep, I know you don't want to do that because it's a step ball, but do it.
    44:47
    Oh, there you go. You had to get two of them. I think it's both balls hitting that one. Hit it again. Oh, so you need, oh, there you go. So you need the left ball to hit to get the left target hit. Yes. Okay.
    45:04
    It's not something I need to, is that weird? And now I got it. Right, but that's a big part of it. That's a huge piece of the game, and we didn't quite... Right, because... Why... Right, because you just did really good.
    45:19
    Oh, I should have... Oh, come on. It's very fast, though. I went through there. You don't like the second flipper button. There is a second flipper button. You don't like those. Well, it's the same button. I don't mind.
    45:36
    Come on. Nope. Wait. What's that? I think the Centaur... You don't want to talk about that. We should talk about that. No, this one too. It would be such a better... No, this doesn't have linear flippers. Yeah, it feels like it does. Are you sure? No. Yeah, that one doesn't have linear flippers. No. I can tell by the performance.
    46:15
    They're linear, too. I don't think so. Which one is that? All of them? Yeah, they're all linear. What if one of them isn't? Well, from the factory, they're linear. What if I change one of them?
    46:32
    It would be that one. Probably. No, I'd say no. I don't think you changed anything. They're all in here. I can tell by the performance. They're all in here.
    46:44
    I don't know. I can tell. They're a little laggy. It's hard to get a sweet spot on them. Okay. The game works.
    47:00
    It is not up to your snuff, I understand. Let's play this game out and we'll open it up and you can gloat or I can say anything. Come on. Okay. Let's... Okay. That's horrible. Sometimes. Oh, maybe. That's horrible. Oh, that's horrible. Oh, maybe. That's horrible. Yeah, not a lot of speech in this game. No. It's okay. I like it. It's even faster than your own belly. I like it.
    47:47
    It's even a class of 81 belly. Suck. Alright, 192. I have a chance on this one. 16 to 60, no free. Okay.
    48:07
    No. Stay. On that side. Three times. Okay. What are you thinking? Oh, check it out. Let's go. Check it out. But you know, let's open it up. You know.
    48:33
    No, put it on top of one of the machines. No? You're right. Okay. That's the Super Station. That won't slide up.
    48:47
    Yeah you right Yep linear linear Yep, I can tell. That's weird that you can do that. I'm an optimizer. I optimize. I can tell. I think I got to do this.
    49:08
    Wow. Okay. So here you go, Dave. Here's the fix. Look. Oh, nice. Is that a... No. Somebody sent me this file.
    49:41
    Okay, you figured it out? Yeah. I'm wondering if I can get somebody to print this. Probably, right? Probably.
    49:52
    Okay. That's all I'm needing. Everything else is just gray and black. I just painted it red. Good? Good.
    50:14
    What? I want to see if l can work it. And... What? This can't be working. And embryonic incubate is functional.
    50:42
    Embryonic incubate is functional. Oh. What's that? What do you feel the cheese got going? Yeah, we can do it. It's been about one year, so we're going to be in. Probably. Why don't you do that? Well, I mean, testing this, technically, I'm not going to want to lose it. I'm just going to do it.
    51:18
    That's the decoration. I don't know what that is. It's a little bit of a different stuff then. Remember, this game was transported. I might have had shit in here. Is that the bottom?
    51:38
    Just put it away. We'll do it tomorrow. Okay, sure. So what was that? I think it's a one-year-old's photo.
    51:45
    It is. So what were you looking at? It was this switch over here, so I went down there and my flip setter didn't activate. It didn't go. So this was lit, ready to go, but it wants to see this switch and then it activates this. Otherwise, when you flip this off at work, it goes like this. I said, okay, now this is going to go. If that doesn't work, you know... I never had a problem with it. Didn't it work when we played it? No. No, then it would flash it and it didn't go when it called me down. This was just...
    52:36
    Embryon. I should have... Embryon. I'm not acting too late. It's functional. I almost think he needs to have a fuse for that, though. I have them. I just don't feel like digging right now. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
    53:22
    I'm almost ready for bed. All right, sure. I'm beat. I'll go upstairs and hang for a few minutes, but I'm just... Well, that was some fun gameplay.
    53:37
    It's hard playing with you. Yeah? How so? Because you're very, very specific with your games, and you know them very well and you know when they work and what they are and it's like I try real hard but man, you're a hard standard to make with it.
    54:03
    No, you know I don't mean that. No, I know. You should take it as a badge because I just watch and I'm like, fuck man, you just know, but you do it for a living and I get it. You've done it for a long time. You did it before you did it for a living.
    54:20
    But I know that Yeah I'm better now than ever was Right but I always knew that We don't have to go through this again Right No Did we ever tell this story?
    54:35
    Which one? The How Did we ever tell the podcast How we became This whole thing We told how we This became I know we did Whoopie Pie It's Whoopie Pie Girl She's a real Whoopie Pie What do you got there, dear? Nothing.
    54:53
    Geez, another mouse in the house. Here comes the mouse again. What? You know, usually you're the one that bustles around in the background.
    55:00
    I don't like it. Grant called you the mouse. Oh. Are you doing a vibe? No. No, I can't. Sort of can't. Sort of, I mean, we'll see. We'll see. We have, you know. We gotta warm up. We gotta...
    55:17
    We don't know this game. now because we played it six times we kind of figured it out again I haven't played, my nephew was here playing it for a while and I played with him like you know I have his playing they're non-players so I'm like yeah let them play but I haven't played this in a while it is a fun game I wish I had a better, but that's a pretty good that could be a pretty good decal better than that it's not bad though it's not good it's worn out but right well rightfully so Embryon Dave what do you think?
    56:04
    Embryon I love this game from when I first played it in a bowling alley in Framham Bowlerama it was with my friend Paul PJ many times and I played some bowling and then go right up and play the lineup of Ambryon, Fathom, Topscore, Joker Poker, Stern Memory Lane, and I think Cardwood was there too. I don't know how you remember all this, but anyway.
    56:29
    I'm sorry, and a genie too. I bought this game because my friend, again, in New Jersey, Jack, bought this game. I always gravitated towards that game out of the 25 he owned, but that was the first one I bought. My first one I bought out of this, I guess you'd call it a shed, but it was part of Allaire State Airport, which is off of exit 98, the parkway, Garden State Parkway in New Jersey. Okay. I went there on a Saturday morning with my buddy Jack, and I think it might have been, I don't know if John Toth went with us. I think he might have. And I think I pulled it out of there for $300 and something.
    57:20
    Reasonable. Maybe $350. Might have been $300. I don't remember. I bought a couple from this guy. He got his games from Tom Callahan. Tom Callahan, old school, restoring games. Yeah, he got out of the business a couple years ago. He did. He got a little old, but he was the man for board repair and stuff in the 80s and 90s, in the early 2000s. He was the guy to go to. He was the guy. He even made his own MPU for ballet, the motherboard.
    57:49
    Or mother with an M-U-T-H, yeah. But yeah, so he made all kinds of videos and stuff, and he was early on. He was a pioneer. So you think you bought it from him? I think I got his game. It kind of went through another collector in Newton. I bought that. I was so tempted to buy Banzai Run that was sitting there. And I could have bought that for $7.50, working Banzai Run. Yeah, no more. Not anymore.
    58:20
    So let's segue into the games we bought together. Now, I remember the look on your face when I pulled up to your house in Big Red. Do you remember that pickup truck, that Chevy Silverado? I think it was an 85. It sounds familiar, yeah. First of all, I think you were amazed at the fact that it made it to your house. second is I'm not sure you thought it was and you probably didn't at the time the safest vehicle that you ever entered no but you know that willy you have that one there is a little yeah well that's getting restored we'll talk about that in an upcoming episode Dallas Overturf was selling was it three embryons or two I think it was three embryons and you ended up with two out of the three or maybe at four you get two and i got two no one no i got one i had another one you got one plus yeah you've heard us talk about him before my cabinet i didn't buy it for the cabinet i wanted the play field however we divvied it up we got a couple of them and it was in that dark dank basement but it wasn't it was more like a crawl space i remember that and i'm like i can't believe this guy is storing these games i remember there was a being down there maybe well did i come there afterwards you kind of brought the games out and i saw them after they were out of the uh catacombs no no you were there with me you probably yeah okay you've been a lot of places i would just remember that was a weird place The cabinet that I got from there was, as you can imagine, a moldy, just, you know, falling apart mess, and it wasn't worth anything. So I turned that into embragon. Embragon, good, I like it. You know, sometimes they gotta move on. I stuffed that thing with more flammable material than you could ever think of, and we lit it on fire at my buddy's place down in Groton, Connecticut. I have the video somewhere. I'm going to see if I can find it and you can host it on your video channel because it is something to say. You're going to say sorry, John, right now, though, because right now there's a John out there that's weeping because he said you were destroying an embryo. Down in the basement.
    60:54
    Yeah. We're down in the basement again. Embryo. Three ball. Yeah, that's what you pull. I can't get out of there. Okay. Well, you can see we're looking at the game right now. You can see up in the bonus area that's been pounded on. Yep. I tried repairing it. It still wore off. I don't know how to do it, and I'm not going to do it. Touch it up with one big plastic sticker over the whole thing. I have the right artwork, but I wish somebody would redo it. Everybody redoes every other damn thing except this game for whatever unknown reason, probably because there aren't so many. but I think there's more than you think. I say you touch it up yourself and take some of the nice, clear Mylar or whatever. Oh, this would be a play field protector because you can see this is a little. I mean, this game's been played. It's been real good, and you listen to the sound. People, Dave, did the board work for the sound after. Oh, you know what? We didn't talk about it upstairs.
    62:02
    Well, let's take a minute. we didn't talk about the seven digit displays oh yeah seven digits yes so I tried to do mine with somebody's engineering attempt and it coincidence or not fried my soundboard not only did I do it once I did it twice and Dave redid the soundboard and the game's never been better. But Dave did the seven-digit display the old way, and I'll let him talk about it. Yeah, the old way is a guy overseas made these nice, you know, modified ROMs for this game and all these games in the time frame, and some he'd give seven-digit scoring to as a modification that's easily flippable, like Ambryon, Hot Dog, and Harlem Globetrotters, etc. And it only came with six, and there really should have been seven. So, what this does, the software counts the right way before it adds another digit, and then you get four seven-digit displays off of a different game, throw it in, and then sometime, I think this came, you can just do a direct wire from each display to a certain number in there, to a certain digit, and just wire that back to the MPU at a certain spot. It's made for something that's just not enabled. So it's not a gigantic engineering feat to do it. Not in this game, in a couple of the other ones, it's a little more. Other ones involves you making a little breadboard circuit with a little chip. Activate embryo. Yeah, you just settle down embryo and talk for a minute. You make this little chip, this little breadboard chip, you know, simple circuit, and you put that in there as a little go-between, and you can make it work that way, too. That works on, I think, Harlem Globe Trotters. I did also in Galaxy. Right, but isn't the big piece when you do this that you're using a Bali seven-digit display in a six-digit area? Yes, it fits right in. Oh, it does? Oh, yeah, it fits right in because it's tighter spacing. The seven-digit is tighter spacing, so it fits the same window, same form factor. I gave up after it didn't do my game nice things. I gave up, and I'm never changing it again. So it's staying the way it is. Dave's right. You get good at it. you roll it. I started playing this. I have not been playing it recently. Used to be, play it all the time. Not anymore. Beat me up pretty bad this week. I did not play this well. So I'm hoping this goes better tonight. Who do you call when you want your pinball machine restored? Dr. Dave!
    64:43
    Dave! Who? Dave! D-A-V-E! Yeah, Dave! Right. But George, you don't know what you're saying. You're under their control. George, we've had it with you. Say no rodeo, bro dad. Hasta la vista, baby.