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Episode 46 - Is The Pinball Landscape Is About To Change?

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·58m 56s·analyzed·Apr 9, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Ken and Bill hype unreleased Jersey Jack game as industry-changing, discuss MGC showdown vs Stern.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill host Special When Lit Pinball Podcast episode 46, recounting their early access visit to Jersey Jack Pinball's development office in Bensonville, Illinois. They played an unreleased Jersey Jack game and describe it as potentially the most groundbreaking pinball release ever, with exceptionally smooth gameplay and impressive execution. They discuss how this release will affect the competitive landscape against Stern's Black Knight: Sword of Rage at the upcoming Midwest Gaming Classic, and explore implications for smaller manufacturers like American Pinball.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack's unreleased game is the most groundbreaking pinball release the hosts have ever experienced

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, direct statement about his first impressions after playing the machine

  • The unreleased Jersey Jack game plays like 'the smoothest Williams game of all time' with 'rock star code'

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell describing the gameplay experience and code quality

  • Jersey Jack, Stern, and American Pinball will be in direct price-point competition at Pro/Premium tier levels ($7k-$7.7k range)

    high confidence · Ken and Bill discussion of street pricing across manufacturers

  • Effects of Jersey Jack's new standard on the industry won't be visible for 1.5-2 years due to existing development pipelines

    high confidence · Ken and Bill discussion of game development lifecycle

  • American Pinball's Oktoberfest may have missed its market window due to manufacturing delays since its October 2018 reveal

    medium confidence · Ken expresses concern about Oktoberfest timing and shipping delays

  • Stern's Batman 66 suffered from minimal code at release, which became a learning experience for Stern

    medium confidence · Ken and Bill discussion of past manufacturing and code issues

  • The podcasters are not compensated by pinball companies and received only pizza during the Jersey Jack visit

    high confidence · Ken explicitly addresses compensation concerns with humor

  • Jersey Jack's development office in Bensonville has full in-house manufacturing capabilities including a tool shop

    high confidence · Bill describes the facility tour with Pat Lawler

Notable Quotes

  • “this release, in my opinion, might be the most unbelievably ground-shaking release that pinball may have ever seen”

    Ken Cromwell @ Early section, during Jersey Jack discussion — Ken's central thesis about the unreleased game's industry impact

  • “It's going to set a different standard for Jersey Jack to compete against themselves. And it's going to be up to the rest of the industry to see how they follow suit”

    Ken Cromwell @ During competitive landscape discussion — Articulates how one release can reset industry expectations

  • “I mean, it's like circa 1989 to 95 again. You got Black Knight. You got Earthshaker. You got Whirlwind...to see the stars align and see this all kind of come back full circle is kind of incredible”

    Bill @ During historical comparison section — Places current Stern vs JJP dynamic in historical context of 1990s designer wars

  • “Honestly, I think some of the smaller manufacturers better come out of the gates running and they better nail it. I don't think there's room for second best anymore.”

    Bill @ During impact discussion — Direct statement on competitive pressure for smaller companies

  • “I am so confident in what I saw that I will happily say that this pin is a game changer”

    Ken Cromwell @ Mid-episode credibility section — Ken stakes his reputation on the game's quality

  • “I could not find anything to even nitpick about. It was that phenomenal.”

    Ken Cromwell @ First impressions section — Extreme positive assessment of execution and polish

  • “I opened myself up for doors to be scrutinized later. I am so confident in what I saw that I will happily say that this pin is a game changer.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Credibility section — Acknowledges reputational risk of extreme praise

  • “You know what? Honestly, I think some of the smaller manufacturers better come out of the gates running and they better nail it...every time the bar gets set higher and higher, everybody's got to either get with the program or get left behind”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBillpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyJack GuarneripersonPat LawlerpersonSteve RitchiepersonEric Minierperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Jersey Jack Pinball will officially reveal unreleased game at Midwest Gaming Classic Friday April 12 at 7pm, with coordinated media content release from This Week in Pinball, Straight Down the Middle, and Special When Lit

    high · Explicit confirmation of April 12, 7pm reveal and coordinated content strategy from three podcasts

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jersey Jack's new release is generating extreme enthusiasm and potentially resetting industry quality standards upward

    high · Ken describes it as 'most unbelievably ground-shaking release' and 'game changer' with highest first impressions ever

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Direct competition at MGC between Stern's Steve Ritchie (Black Knight) and Jersey Jack's Pat Lawler in same price tier, recalling 1989-1995 golden age of designer rivalries

    high · Both games releasing at same event, hosts explicitly compare to Earthshaker/Whirlwind/T2/Addams era

  • $

    market_signal: Pro/Premium tier prices consolidating: Stern Premium ~$7k, Jersey Jack Standard ~$7-7.5k, American Pinball ~$7-7.7k, increasing direct price-point competition

    high · Ken and Bill explicit discussion of street pricing across three manufacturers at same tier

  • ?

    product_concern: American Pinball's Oktoberfest faces risk of lost market window due to manufacturing delays; revealed October 2018 but still not shipping, now competing against major releases

    medium · Ken expresses concern that Oktoberfest 'may have missed their window' and references 60-day post-reveal shipping as target

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.177

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land you found us you found episode number 46 of the special when lit pinball podcast my name is ken cromwell and i am bill uh bill uh well well i'm gonna welcome myself back since I missed last week due to the the April Fool scandal of pitball podcasting how was it hosting the show with Jason Fowler of slap save pitball podcast Jason's a great guy so it was definitely a good time it was you know it was interesting to try and do this with somebody else though because you and I have so many episodes under our belt but honestly you know if there was ever a time where you needed some time off I'd love to have Jason back yeah Jason's a good guy for those of you that may or may not know last week was April Fool's, so we had an April Fool's joke where we kind of mixed, we created a little story, we mixed up the dynamic, and podcasters had left their shows for reasons beyond their control and having to go to another show, and that kind of played out in the openings. All the news that was reported after the opening segments of those podcasts were all accurate, but it was just kind of in good fun, and we got a lot of interesting feedback. I think a lot of the podcast did, actually. Yeah, it was definitely an interesting dynamic to see that all come to fruition, planning it out and then seeing it actually go through. So hopefully everybody enjoyed it. And real quick, one of the things that we forgot to mention last week, because it was the April Fool's Day joke, was our guys in Minnesota, it was actually Wes and Michael, not Ashton and Michael. So guys, we look forward to seeing your... Oh, the guys from the Indigo Hotel at TPL? Yeah, and I give it out to these guys because they saw me on the worst moments because they were seeing me at like 8 o'clock in the morning after being up until 4. So Wes and Michael, man, let us know when you guys get that arcade going, and we'll make sure to plug it for you, all right? Hope you guys are doing well. It might have been a day or two where 8 o'clock was you going to bed from the night before at 8 o'clock in the morning, too. That was so rough. So, I mean, regarding the – this is one of the cool things that I think transpired or actually was in result of kind of the April Fool's thing. And, again, we had podcasters working with other co-hosts, so it was a whole different dynamic. But there was an email that we had received, and I wanted to just take a minute and read this. It sent a message to me, and I appreciate it. And it was by Michael Chalice. And he writes, gentlemen, I'm writing to everyone to congratulate you for one of the best hoaxes contrived to honor April 1. Though I was never fooled by the ruse. Yeah, right. And the first five minutes or so of your respective podcast were tough listening since it was obvious what was happening. I love listening to the new configuration of podcasters. So I thought that was kind of interesting. Yeah. He goes on to say, he says, I don't know any one of you from Adam and might only be able to identify a few of you by sight, but you've all become a welcome addition to my long daily commute. I think that's cool. Absolutely. That's what we're trying to do here, right? I think that's what a lot of people are trying to do. He goes on to say, through your decision of pinball, family, and life's oddities, I feel like I've come to know you all and believe that you are all a great group of guys. Pretty cool, right? So now we've kind of established that connection with the listener. Again, what podcasters probably aspire to do. That's what we wanted to do.

Bill @ Market impact discussion — Direct statement on competitive consequences

Midwest Gaming Classic
event
This Week in Pinballorganization
Straight Down the Middleorganization
Jack Dangerperson
Michael Chaliceperson
Dirty Donnieperson
Joe Balzerperson
Kanedaperson
Buffalo Pinballorganization
Wizard of Ozgame
Black Knight: Sword of Ragegame
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack's new game achieves balance between smooth Williams-style playfield and sophisticated modern code, representing integration of classic and contemporary design approaches

    high · Ken describes it as 'smoothest Williams game of all time' with 'rock star code'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Jersey Jack Bensonville development office has full in-house manufacturing tooling and capability to build machines from scratch, impressive facility tour

    high · Bill and Ken describe jealousy of tool shop capabilities and Pat Lawler showing everything they can do at satellite office

  • ?

    content_signal: Three major podcasts (This Week in Pinball, Straight Down the Middle, Special When Lit) coordinating simultaneous content release at 7pm Friday for unreleased game reveal, representing industry collaboration

    high · Explicit coordination plan with This Week in Pinball handling deep dive, Straight Down the Middle video, Special When Lit panel discussion

  • ?

    industry_signal: Smaller manufacturers facing increased pressure to execute flawlessly as Jersey Jack sets new quality bar; 'no room for second best anymore'

    high · Bill's direct statement that smaller manufacturers must 'come out of the gates running and nail it'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Changes to industry standards from this Jersey Jack release won't manifest in competing machines for 1.5-2 years due to existing development lifecycles

    high · Ken and Bill discussion that other games are already in queue, no direct immediate changes expected

  • ?

    leak_detection: Jersey Jack provided early NDA-controlled access to unreleased game for coordinated media reveals; minimal details released publicly but extreme enthusiasm communicated

    high · Ken and Bill note NDA requirement and commitment not to disclose title or features before official reveal

  • ?

    event_signal: Midwest Gaming Classic April 9-12 positioned as pivotal industry event with major releases from Stern and Jersey Jack competing for attention

    high · MGC described as venue for 'showdown at the OK Corral' between Black Knight and unreleased JJP game

    • 3:20
    And then he says, to hear you discuss pinball in a new setting with a new partner only reaffirmed that assumption. Everybody seemed to click, not necessarily in a better way, but certainly in a different way. And it was refreshing change of pace. And I hope that you consider doing this occasionally throughout the year as your time allows. So he just kind of liked listening to these podcasts and then having a different kind of team, a different dynamic. He also says, I assume this all came together over TPF, which hosted now annual Twippy Awards. Great job. This Week in Pinball, Greg and Zach, it's straight down the middle. Though that award status has made you competitors in the industry, it's refreshing to see people transcend competition and embrace camaraderie for a shared passion in what's for most people a rather obscure hobby. Now, that's really what kind of rang true to me because we've been talking about trying to get everybody on the same page in general. And he's absolutely right. There might be like a competitive rivalry, but I mean, man, there's no cash prize for this. No, no, we don't make money doing this. But the one thing I will say is, first and foremost, it was hard holding us in, in all honesty, is I am glad that when we are on your radio, when you're listening on your ride home, that we do feel like you do know us and everything else because that's kind of our goal, is that if we walk into TPF or whatever and we met people that we'd never met, they just jumped right in and started talking like we'd been friends for 20 years, which is really refreshing in all honesty. As far as the podcast rivalries, I don't really think there is a whole lot of rivalry because we're all doing the same thing, almost non-for-profit, and we all just enjoy it. Honestly, I wish he could be around when Zach and Greg and Jason was around those nights at TPF with Jeff. You know, we just had so much fun and we're laughing.
    5:11
    You know, it wasn't about that. It was just about having a good time. So right. It's we're all in it to do the same kind of thing. So to kind of have a listener kind of feel that was nice. And he goes on to thank everybody for their hard work and effort. And I believe that email went out to all the podcasts that participated in that. So, you know, Mike, thanks. Thanks for the feedback on that. And that's cool. Thank you. Appreciate it. We will, you know, switch gears. And so let's do this, Bill. Well, I think everybody at this point, if you haven't figured it out, we took a trip to Jersey Jack Pinball, their developmental office in Bensonville, Illinois, this past week, last week. Yep. And that was on Friday. Now the reason for us going in there, Jersey Jack Pinball had invited ourselves, especially when the Pinball Podcast, Ken and Bill, This Week in Pinball, Jeff Patterson, and Straight Down the Middle, a pinball show, Zach, Manny, and Greg Bone, in to kind of get an early access to the game, knowing that we would go ahead and help with a reveal of three media outlets. And he did also have Kaneda go into the Jersey facility at the exact same time as we were walking into the other location in Bensonville to review the game as well. So I wanted to bring that up because it's true. Yeah, so Kaneda's in New Jersey taking in the game, special and lit, this weekend pinball, straight down the middle. We are in the Bensonville office in Illinois right outside of Chicago, and we're taking the game in, I guess, simultaneously, right? Yeah, because it was 11 o'clock their time, 10 o'clock our time, and it was literally at the same time. Now, as far as the Bensonville group goes, again, Special Inlet, Straight Down the Middle, This Week in Pinball, we're all collaborating on releasing our personal reveal of this game, our content, right, our media content. So you've got Straight Down the Middle that will have the video of the game. You've got This Week in Pinball that will be doing a deep dive of the game. You've got Special Inlet, which will be doing our panel discussion of the game, which includes the founder of the company, Jack Guarneri. So either way, we were able to go into Jersey Jack and see the entire team and get to ask some questions about Jersey Jack's newest release.
    7:18
    But before we do that, we're on the game. Yeah, so for about, I don't know, an hour or so, we got to play the game, which was incredible. I mean, I know there's a few people that have purchased that machine out of the small group that we were in.
    7:33
    So, yeah, I mean, that should speak volumes. So, yeah, we played this game for about an hour or so, which was just incredible. one of the smoothest games that I think we've ever played together collaboratively, let alone in recent time. I mean, it's just very inspiring to see what they have done with this game. All right, so we walk into Jersey Jack Pinball, and the first thing that we do is Eric Minier's there, and he's kind of welcoming us in there. We're all signed to NDA, which is a nondisclosure agreement, which makes sense because it's not for us to reveal any surprises on this game. I totally get it. With or without that NDA, I was not in a position or had any drive to want to do that. That's not our secret. That's not our. No, no, no, no. In fact, you will not even hear us disclose the title of the release. I don't think that's our job to do that. We didn't work on this game. I think the developers and the, you know, everybody that had collaborated on this team effort, that's their baby. let them talk about that, which will be revealed at MGC Friday night at April 12th at about 7 o'clock p.m. I do want to talk a little bit about the trip, though, because what I was most impressed with was after signing the NDAs in the lobby, we walk in, right? And then there's these machines and a row of them. Yes. Not one or two, a row. Right.
    8:53
    Different models, which you'll be able to see in the feature matrix as it's released. You'll be able to know what tiers there are and what's involved in each tier. We were invited to jump on that game right away. And I'm going to say this. First, I want to let everybody know in Pinball Land, anybody that knows me, anybody that listens to this podcast, I've been in pinball for, I want to say, 13 or 14 years ago is probably when I received my first machine. I've worked very hard, especially in the latter half of those 13 years, to establish credibility within pinball, meaning I'm trustworthy. I'm not going to tell a lie. I'm not going to try to fabricate a listing on a machine in order to benefit me, so on and so forth. I need to elaborate on that. Even stuff that we have been privy to releasing stuff, you know, something that might have been concerning other people or stuff like that, that we had permission to release. We didn't just because we didn't think that it was an appropriate thing to do at that time and watch something go down. And we've held back on stories just because we wanted to maintain our credibility. We absolutely have. Yep. So just because our credibility and what we report on is very important to us that we do get the facts right and everything to the best of our ability and knowledge is correct. So I just wanted to – As he said, yeah, perfect. But with that being said, what I'm about to say, I want to make sure that that's in the back of everybody's mind when they hear what I'm about to say about my experience on this game. And that is this. this release, in my opinion, might be the most unbelievably ground-shaking release that pinball may have ever seen. I would say that my first impressions on this game have surpassed any first impression I've had on any game I've ever played in any era of pinball. I will also say that because of my limited amount of time on that game, I can't say that it's the best pinball machine of all time because I don't have enough time on the game. But from a first impression standpoint, I've never been more wowed. I've never been more impressed. I've never been more excited. And the thing that's killing me at this point is the waiting time for me to actually get this game in my home because I've been asked to put on a list for purchase. when we went into Jersey Jack Pinball. It was so fun to see the team there that has been working on this machine, no doubt, day and night for weeks, months, maybe a year or more. And they all had smiles ear to ear just looking at us, seeing our first impressions of this machine, which was just incredible. For them, it was like, okay, let's see what the verdict says about this machine. And it was just, you could just see their excitement on their face. It was the first time that this project that they've been working on had been eyes outside. Eyes have been laid on this, on this, on their work and on their efforts. And I could tell that they were in eager anticipation to see what the initial reactions were. Man, I just I can't remember ever having a buzz like that. I we left there and you were just elated, elated. And we can't talk about any of the features or anything that's that's that's with the game. And that part we I want to make sure that we respect. And we will cover all this in our panel interview. Oh, we will. That's already been done. Just letting people know. It's already in the can, our first impressions from the day of.
    12:33
    But it is like the smoothest flowing Williams game of all time, in my opinion, because it feels like a Williams with rock star code, it seems like. Blown away. I will go as far as to say, in my limited amount of time playing it, And in all fairness, I've not played Stern's recent release of Black Knight Sword of Rage. I have not been given an opportunity to have any time on that. But I think it's fair to kind of discuss, because this is what we're anticipating at MGC, right? We're going to have these two releases. Showdown at the OK Corral. I'm telling you, from what I've seen out of Jersey Jack Pinball with this release, assuming I didn't glance over something that is obvious, it might be just the most unbelievable pinball machine of all time. I mean, I'm not even kidding. Like, I cannot see. It's going to set a different standard for Jersey Jack to compete against themselves. And it's going to be up to the rest of the industry to see how they follow suit, whether that be with design, with mechs. Code, art. Yes. Any of those things. Yes. And the craziest part is with how high that bar is set, it will be interesting to see how this affects pinball in general. And we won't ever see the effects of it for at least a year and a half to two years down the road of how this actually affects pinball from different manufacturers, not Sterner. Yeah, I'd agree. There's a lot of games that are in the queue that are already being worked on. Yeah. So there are the other life cycle of being developed. So we wouldn't see any direct changes from this. But, yes, it is absolutely awesome. And we're talking about this three days later. Now, you might be thinking to yourselves, all right, guys, well, you were invited in. You got this preview of this game, and you're getting this content for your show, so it's only natural that you kind of shill the game. I want to be clear. I'm not shilling anything.
    14:28
    I was very clear with the team at Jersey Jack Pinball while I was taking everything in. I said, listen, guys, if I found something wrong or something that I didn't like, I would give you honest feedback. I would do it respectfully I wouldn blast you for something that had a shortcoming or something that I thought was off base That being said I couldn find anything man I could not find anything to even nitpick about It was that phenomenal. And listen to this, guys. We're not compensated by these pinball companies. We've seen stuff before it's been released, and we've offered feedback, and we've been able to work with some companies on some things. We were compensated, though. We did get pizza while we were there. Well, that's true. So we'll work for pizza, right? We'll work for pizza. Just throwing that out there. But go ahead. We're not compensated by any of the pinball companies. Well, you might say, well, your your compensation is driving interest of the show for your listeners, because the more listeners you have. Listen, the more listeners we have. It's great for personal reasons for us, because then we know more people are are kind of aspiring to listen to our content. But it equivalents to zero dollars. So there's no reason for me to go out of my way to this extent because there's no benefit at all for me to do so. In fact, by me putting myself out here on the line like this, I opened myself up for doors to be scrutinized later. I am so confident in what I saw that I will happily say that this pin is a game changer. And again, from what I've been in front of, I've not been in front of Black Knight. I can't wait to see that game. I think what Stern has done, they've kind of evolved, and they're adding more things to their games.
    16:09
    So the verdict's still out on a direct comparison for me. And I love Steve Ritchie. Who doesn't love Steve Ritchie? Yeah, I'm definitely curious to play that game. But of the two games that we've played, or of the two games that are going to be shown at MGC, the one that we have played, that is like some stiff competition. So, I mean, in my mind, it is literally like a showdown at the OK Corral. Well, think about it, right? So you've got Stern's most recent release. Consequently, now that is being streamed tomorrow. So by the time you listen to this podcast, which would be Tuesday, Jack Danger is streaming that on Tuesday night. So if you listen to this in the afternoon on Tuesday, Jack Danger will be streaming this evening Black Knight Sword of Rage. And he's not just streaming him and Steve Ritchie at Burger King. No, don't get me started on the Burger King. Okay, just throwing that out there. All right. But yes, so now they're bringing this to the public for the first time to have their hands on it at the Midwest Gaming Classic, which takes place this weekend starting Friday, April 9. Now, Jersey Jack brings in their next release by their lead game designer, Pat Lawler. So you not only have Black Knight kind of going up against, you have a Steve Ritchie title going up against a Pat Lawler title at a pinball show in the Midwest. Like, it blows my whole mind when I think about it. Dude, it's like circa 1989 to 95 again. You know, you got, you know, Black Knight. You got Earthshaker. You got Whirlwind. You got Terminator 2. Then you got Adam's Family. You know, you got Getaway. then you got twilight zone uh twilight zone to star trek next gen you know i mean they were just battling it out back in the day back and forth back and forth back and forth you know so i mean to see the stars align and see this all kind of come back full circle is kind of incredible just even if we didn't even if the games were mediocre by um normal standards which i don't believe it either game is it is just interesting to see how this has all come full circle 20 years later how How do you think this changes the pinball landscape? And again, we're talking because we've seen this. We've seen a lot of pinball, Bill. We've talked a lot about pinball. We've had wishes that we want for pinball. And so how does this Jersey Jack pinball release number five, how do you think it changes things going forward for pinball in general? You know what? Honestly, I think some of the smaller manufacturers better come out of the gates running and they better nail it. I would agree. I don't think there's room for second best anymore. You know, not that there really was in the first place, but just incredible. But you know what? I mean, with that said, every time the bar gets set higher and higher, everybody's got to, you know, either get with the program or get left behind. See, and I wonder what's going to happen with a title like Oktoberfest, right? Because I think that is a cool pinball machine, and I think it shoots well. I think what Joe Balzer did is incredible. I haven't really put a lot of time on it, so I can't speak of the code. but I mean it seems like Josh knows what he's doing over there and you've got ferret that came over to help on that machine yeah um you know artwork wise it wasn't something that appealed to us per se and uh and I think animations are going to gradually get there uh they're just not there but when I think of Oktoberfest from American Pinball it was revealed in October of 2018 I just wish that they would have had that nailed down where the shipping time was 60 days after the reveal that's where I think that we're going to see that's where I think there might be a slight concern is did they miss their window to get this pin out? Because, again, there is a following for any Stern release. There's definitely a following and a fan base for Steve Ritchie. There's definitely a following and a fan base for a Black Knight follow-up. I think Jersey Jack pinball titles are always anticipated because they tend to offer a little bit more of like packed play fields or something that's innovative. Like Jersey Jack seems like he really tries to push the envelope. but their issue has have been release times and getting pins out but it seems like that's been everybody's problem i mean even with uh batman 66 they got the game out but the code was lacking for the longest time there's always a hang-up right like there's nothing that goes out smoothly there's always something that sets something back right and i think stern kind of learned from that situation that you know you can't send a game out with minimal code you know i mean it's right there i mean that was a learning experience and i think that game suffered because of that you got uh the Hobbit and Dialed In and Pirates, you know, that all kind of suffered because they took a little while to get to the, get to go. To get the manufacturing figured out. You got Oktoberfest. It seems like that's everybody's MO is, you know, they go through this trial and error of learning how to get everything to the finish line. Have you heard anything about, like, when Oktoberfest is going to start shipping? I have not. Okay. I'm just curious. Maybe we'll check in over at American Pinball. I mean, we're friends with people over there. And we wish them well. We're not. I want to see the Oktoberfest do well. Oh, yeah. I really do. I think it's got a lot going for it. It's a balsa design. But now you're in direct competition with an anticipated release from Stern. And what I know from experience on this Jersey Jack title, it's going to shock and awe people, man. I mean, it's incredible. I cannot wait to see everybody's reactions when this comes out. Like I said, I'm on board. I'm getting this title, and I'm not going to look back. Like that being said, I don't want to see like a title like like Oktoberfest disappear into the night because of of manufacturing and ship times. Like, yeah, it's got to be given a chance to kind of get on its own legs. But realistically speaking, when you're I think is what it's going to come down to, Bill, is like price points, what people can afford. And then you're going to compare machines within that price point. I think Stern will always have a competitive advantage being able to offer a pro model like under $6,000 street value. Definitely. Jersey Jack pinball tends to start in the 7s and go to the mid-12s depending on what tier you're at. And I think with American pinball, they're in the mid-7s. So I think what you end up doing, if you're looking at going across the board, you're looking at an American pinball machine, just say at 75 to 77 or 73 to 77, whatever that is going to be at. Jersey Jack, like a standard edition, somewhere in the sevens, and then Stern Premium, somewhere in the sevens. So that's a fair price comparison. So where is your bang for your buck going to be between an American Pinball release, a Jersey Jack Pinball standard, and a Stern Premium? Where is that going to go? And time will only tell, but that's the only fair way that you can kind of look at something that's price-wise. Generalized. Exactly, exactly. I think they all have their hands full. And I think they all have their advantages and disadvantages.
    22:57
    We'll see. Absolutely. I think you're right. I mean, every game and game manufacturer has their pluses and minuses. I think a big part of that, too, will wind up coming down to theme.
    23:09
    That's true. That is true. The game that we just saw, I think, shoots better than the Jersey Jack that I currently own. That said, I love the theme of my Wizard of Oz. so even though it might not be as smooth still love that game and it's not going anywhere the hard part for me is eventually i would like jersey jack number five so you know to see them both sit next to each other yeah right but you know it's a matter of time and money and you know the struggle is real so yeah i mean the theme is uh there's that's what's great about pinball right so like if the theme doesn't call to me i can still be attracted by so many other things and look past the theme. Now, for some people, they can't look past the theme. For some people, they can't look past a bad art package. For some people, a deep coat is absolutely necessary if they're going to have it in their home design. So I will close in saying that Ken Cromwell from Special Wind Lit Pinball Podcast has worked a long time to establish credibility, not just in pinball, but just as a person. And I would not steer anybody wrong. I will guarantee that majority of the people that are going to be looking at this reveal from Jersey Jack Pinball on Friday night at 7 p.m. at the Midway's Gaming Classic are going to be pleasantly surprised. And I would encourage you, because what happens is when that reveal happens, and this is where I plug our content that I would do if I hated the game or not, right? Because we already put the effort in there. Seven o'clock, you're going to have This Week in Pinball. You're going to have straight down the middle, a pinball show, and you're going to have Special One Lit Pinball Podcast release all their content at the same time. So while you've got the Buffalo Pinball guys that will be streaming the reveal, you know that you can go to This Week in Pinball immediately. You can get the deep dive on the game. You can get all the high-res picks. You can get the buying options, the feature matrix. You can get the deep dive. You know you can go to straight down the middle of a pinball show, and you can see those guys put a lot of time in on some exceptional video that will be revealed on the game. They also spoke to some of the team there for like a live interview. And then for those of you that are in your cars and you're looking to catch up or maybe you're working on a pinball machine and you want to hear the story behind the making of this game and what they were thinking and what they're excited about, then you've got the special one, the pinball podcast, because you're going to have five team members talking about what went on behind the scenes. And we couldn't be more happy to work with Zach and Greg from Straight Down the Middle and Jeff from This Week in Pinball. Great guys. Yeah, man. I'm hoping that it's going to be something that we're able to work on on other releases in the future. But it was a hard day's night, so to speak. But I think it will all pay off in the end. And for us to team up on a reveal, I could not be more happy that it was this particular reveal. Because it's unbelievable, man. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Once again, we're not getting paid to do this. Now, that said, the one thing I did want to say in closing on my end is Ken nailed down everything about our day, I think. Nailed it down except for one area. What's that? We got to see the tool shop in back of that. Yeah. All right, so I don't know that we can talk about that. We can't talk about it, but all we can say is that they could build whatever they want back there, and I was jealous. I was extremely jealous. Well, so everybody thinks about Jersey Jack Pinball being in New Jersey, like where they manufacture the pins, but the development office that's out here in the outskirts of Chicago, which is close to us, you're right. They've got the capabilities of making a pin from start to scratch in-house, and Pat Lawler brought us through and gave us a personal tour and showed us everything that they can do at that kind of satellite office, it's full-fledged, man. It's very impressive, very impressive. I was jealous because I was just looking at all that stuff. You had to play on all the machines, right? Dude, I could build whatever I want on this thing in no time flat. Yeah, it's pretty killer. Yeah, so I think that about sums that trip up. So hopefully everybody likes the interview, the panel discussion that we did. Absolutely. Now, at this point, we would normally transition to Industry Buzz, who was supposed to be our guest on Industry Buzz, and that's Dirty Donnie. And we were to ask him about what's going on at Suncoast Pinball with Cosmic Carnival. He's working on that game right now. Talk about if he's going to work with Stern or anything in the future. And I just got an email, literally, from Donnie asking if we can postpone this until tomorrow or for a few days because he's got some obligations that just popped up. So we'll have him on, I don't know, next week, hopefully. Yep. At least he contacted us and let us know that he couldn't make it. Correct, yeah. So hopefully nothing was life-altering or urgent for him, and just life got in the way. Well, Bill, let me ask you this, man. Are you ready to play some Drain It or Save It? I am ready.
    27:54
    It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Now, Drain It or Save It is brought to you by Lermods.com, And they're providing custom quality mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit Lermods.com today. Robin Kim. All right, Bill. So the first topic on Drain It or Save It actually comes from a listener of the show, Michael Peterson. And he says he's a huge fan of the show. He says we're doing some great work. So already I like this guy, right? Good man. But he also suggests for Drain It or Save It, subwoofers underneath your pinball machines to enhance sound. bill drain it or save it i would save it now that's it i don't have any because every time you know we get a hole burn in our pocket we go buy a machine or something but there's certain games that i would definitely love to put the subwoofer on so definitely save it so like what games do you like that now this is what i liked about you and jason or jason and yourself last week on train it or save it it wasn't you just saying something in 60 seconds and that's it and then me saying something for 60 seconds you actually got into conversation about it so it shouldn't be long conversation but let me follow up with this like what games are appropriate for subwoofers and what games are not in your opinion you know what it's not that they're not appropriate i think they lend themselves better so you know you had a sub hooked up on twilight zone i thought that was awesome i love it um you had it hooked up on attack from mars love it thought it was great i got it hooked up on deadpool right now premium sounds good love it um the only thing i love to enhance on that dude is one day I actually like to build a subwoofer box into the bottom of the cabinet of one Okay And when you have like one 12 woofer firing up dude the bass waves screw with the ball Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I mean, we love doing everything very simple. Yeah, no, I save it, too. I think instead of going in and trying to change those speakers in the back glass or in your head, go in and just get a sub-powered subwoofer or whatever it is. uh poke audio makes awesome ones for like under 100 bucks and you can actually share the sub with multiple machines i think up to two and it just makes sense to do it the audio experience is exponentially increased so i will also save that the second item for drain it or save it is the dmd bent plastic now for those that don't know what that is for those that have suffered from DMD glare on your playfield glass, there's a piece of plastic that you can buy from, I think it's literally from a company, Bent Plastic. Yeah. And it actually slips underneath, like in where the top of your playfield glass would go. It angles upwards so that you can still see the DMD, but the black plastic prevents the DMD from shining down on your playfield glass. The flip side of that is that you have something that's cosmetically, some would consider awkward on their pinball machine. So I will ask you, Bill, drain it or save it, bent plastic for DMD glare? I would have to drain it based on cosmetics. I don't have any on my machines. You have them when we played. I just haven't noticed enough of a difference for me to care.
    30:59
    Well, the difference is there's no glare or there's glare. I like glare. A little glare adds some flair. Hey, you know what? A little glare adds some flair? Absolutely, dude. To me, I'm not biased either way. It doesn't seem to. See, like the newer Stern, and I'm going to save it. I'm going to save these things because you really don't notice them unless you're at a weird angle from the pinball machine. So when you're playing the game, it's angled in such a way to where it's directly in your line of sight, and it's so thin that you just don't notice it. But I do notice that it does eliminate the glare from the DMV, unlike the older Valley Williams stuff. Now, Stern, at one point, they had tilted their DMVs to where they kind of were angled in an upward position. so that eliminated playfield glare or playfield glass glare from the DMD. But prior to that, yeah, I mean, for whatever it is, $8, $10, to be able to take that glare off the DMD, because at that time you're not even able to kind of dim the DMD. It's just, boom, it's there. As of right now, I drain it, but you know what? I'll tell you what. Just be better informed. I will actually buy one, put it on the machine, so I can give a better assessment later on. I've got tons of them here. So they make them for wide bodies and standard bodies. Let me know what I can do to get you into a bent plastic today Alright, no problem And there's no endorsement from Bent Plastic I don't even know if they know who we are But I use them, so I'm going to save it, you're going to drain it Option number three, or category number three For drain it or save it Brought to you by LearnMods.com Pinball related April Fool's pranks Bill, are you going to drain it or save it? I'm going to have to save that Are you going to save it? Why? Why are you going to save it? Because it was a good time last week doing that Did you have fun doing that? Yeah, I did I did. I mean, when we did that, nothing had transpired in other areas, but some of the things that we had said actually came to fruition a couple of days later. We'll talk about that before we close out the show, but yeah, I'll save it. All right. I'm going to drain April Fool's pranks for pinball-related stuff. And as fun as it was to kind of mix it up with the podcast stories about Zach being too busy to go on with TWIP and me taking an opportunity and Jason leaving because of a rift with Chris and coming over to co-host with you. But you did the thing with Creasel, man. That was good stuff. Hey, man, it was great hosting with Dennis Creasel. I got a lot of respect for Dennis, and we've spoken many times before we actually met at TPF, and it's fun. I think it was a good show, and it was great, man. It's great being back in Special 1 Lit. All that being said, and I completely lost train of thought of where I was going with this. Oh, I'm saying, all right, so what happens next year, right? But next year, we kind of... Well, April 1st will be on a Tuesday, so it wouldn't make sense to do it. Yeah, that's good. So I'm kind of happy for that. It was a one-time thing. Let me ask you this, though. The other April Fool's joke was Jack Danger saying that he was going to be streaming BK with Tim Sexton and Steve Ritchie. And a lot of people, including myself, because I fell to the prank, was expecting Black Knight with Steve Ritchie and Tim Sexton. and BK turned out to be Burger King and Tim Sexton and Steve Ritchie eating Whoppers with Jack Danger at Burger King. How did you feel about that, Bill? I didn't have time to watch it, so for me it was just fine. I thought it was good. You did not have time to watch it. I made time to watch it. That's the difference, and that's why I don't like April Fool's jokes. Dedication. April Fool's, yeah. Yeah, your dedication was much higher up. We had something going on with my daughter that night.
    34:26
    April Fool's jokes are all fun and dandy until you are inconvenienced by one. Ball pretty. So I am draining April Fool's pinball-related jokes or pranks. So let's go ahead and let's just sum this up for the listeners on drain it or save it. External subwoofers, we both are saving external subs on pinball machines. I don't see anything that's bad about that. Bent plastic, you drained it. Did I drain it? I saved it for DMD glare on the playfield glass on older games. And then pinball-related April Fool's pranks, you saved them, and I drained them. Yeah. And going back to bent plastic, just because that is somebody's business, it's not that I don't wish well or don't think their product works. It's just I really haven't had one on my machine and had enough play time to know if it works or not. How do you drain it if you don't have an experience on it? Don't knock it until you've tried it, brother. You know what? There are certain things in life that you could use that analogy towards that you shouldn't be trying. Well, that's true. Well, bent plastic is probably the most safe of all the things you shouldn't be trying. Dude, that's a gateway to mods right there. Before you know it, you're buying Pin Sound and all sorts of stuff. But, yeah, so we'll have to give that a try. But as of right now, it doesn't affect my play per se, so it doesn't really affect me. Okay. As of right now. I got you. I'm the wiser. No, it's cool. So we will transition over. Well, normally we would go over to Bill's corner here with the Whirlwind update, but do you mind if I kind of jump in? because I think the grand finale is always the whirlwind update. A lot of people love it. And we put it at the end of the show purposely to make people kind of wait to get the information on the whirlwind update. Well, I think we did that because I don't want to piss people off for having that at the beginning of the show. But it's however you want to look at it, though. I mean, it works both ways. The un-grand finale. But, yeah, no, I would definitely love to, you know, you've expressed interest in the project. Because I have a project now. Right. Yeah. So I'm taking on a project. And, I don't know, let's take three or four minutes to discuss this, if you don't mind. For those of you that listen to the show, you know recently I had acquired a Meteor pinball machine. And the Meteor is rough. And I got an appropriate deal for the condition of the pinball machine. And at one point I thought to myself, I'm going to do a full restoration on this game. And it's going to be one of the first times I'm going to do a play field swap. And I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to re-stencil the cabinet. And I've been thinking about this for days and days and days. and I was thinking about everything that I'm going to have to do to kind of restore this to a show pony Meteor because I know you're a show pony type of guy. If you're going to have a pin, you want it to be the best example of the pin that you could possibly own. At the time that I do it, yeah. Sure, sure. And I'm very picky on used games. I most don't pass my standards, not because I'm any better than anybody else, but it's just what I expect when I'm going to bring a pin into my home. So for Meteor to come down here in the condition that it is, is really off-putting to me. But it's motivated me to like, let's get this back to original condition, right? It was refreshing to me, though, because you never let this kind of situation ride. I'm looking at it right now. And it's not bad. It's really, it is in player condition.
    37:37
    You know, I don't think it's that terrible. It's pretty terrible, Bill. It's terrible. You think it's terrible now? Wait till you drive it. I'm like, but this actually works out to my benefit because this is what I decided I was going to do. Christopher Franchi, I'm sorry, but I'm going to bring up T-shirts for a second here. And for those of you that remember the Special Oil and Pinball Podcast T-shirts, they were illustrated by artist Brian Holderman. And Brian had rethemed a Matahari pinball machine into a silver bullet. now I had always been a big fan of that wreath theme and I thought that he did a good job now Brian has a very stylistic approach to artwork whether or not it lends itself well to pinball for the masses I don't know but I know specifically or for certain that there is um he has a huge following so at one point when Brian was doing t-shirts for us and doing the design I said you know what Brian I'm such a big fan of the silver bullet wreath theme that you did at one point I'd like to get a pinball machine and I'd like to work together with you and retheme it. And how would you feel about doing that? And he's like, yeah, man, he's like, I'm super busy. But I mean, as long as we weren't under any hard deadlines, that's absolutely something that I would look forward to doing. Now, obviously, there's a lot of like details that had to be ironed out.
    38:59
    I came to the decision like last week. I'm going to retheme this beat to hell meteor and I'm going to team up with Brian Holderman. and we're going to work together, not with art direction so much. Well, I'll give a little art direction because I think Brian wants to make me happy, but I know that he's the guy for this job. So we are going to work together. We're going to re-theme Meteor. And I don't feel bad doing this because this pin is pretty far along. The nice thing about it is, and I'm not going to get specific,
    39:32
    but I am going to be able to pull that play field out of there and preserve the play field. If anybody needs a beat the hell out of your play field, you can do that. I've got another option where I can put something in. But what I talked to him about, I said, listen, you're busy, and I am also preoccupied with a lot of things. So let's do this. Let's just work on this in sections. Let's get the cabinet artwork done because I definitely want to stencil that. yeah before i can do any of this obviously i've got to re you know restore the cabinet and get it into pristine shape i say we build a new one but could could you build a new what is that a 1978 or 70 is it 78 i don't even know i don't know but i don't know if i can or 78 79 whatever it takes but i'm willing to give it a try that'd be crazy if we built a new cabinet absolutely dude it's for you know homeboy man you heard it here especially when lit bill might be building in a cabinet for a media re-theme. Absolutely. Well, you know what? Here, dude, it's been, you've talked about this for such a long time. Yeah. That in all honesty, dude, I would love. Talked about what? About buying an older game and re-theming it. Yes. Yes, I have. You didn't say a meteor, but just a game in general. And you know what? I like what you're doing with the fact that you're not trying to destroy valuable parts that somebody else could be using. And a lot of the stuff that is on this game, you are going to wind up helping repurpose into somebody else's game that might need it. I agree. Some of it's salvageable, but it's just not going to be pristine. But for a lot of people that don't have an option, at least it's something. So, yeah, to your point, I would like to kind of preserve what I can and then redo what makes sense to redo.
    41:13
    And if you're here, let's just look at the backlash for starters here, right? Okay. It's not the greatest backlash, but it is a backlash. So for that poor guy that set the backlash down because he was trying to do something in a hurry because he's getting yelled at by his wife or kids or whatever and hit the corner and smash it. Whoa. Trash that sucker. That's like a, yeah, that's not a good backlash. But it presents well as long as you don't turn on the pin and light shines on it. Something is better than nothing, though. It is true. So I think in that aspect, dude, if you could help somebody, even with the older cabinet, dude, if we built you one, dude, somebody could have a meteor cabinet that, you know, there could be one that's waterlogged and damaged and, you know, yours is decent, better than nothing. True, true. But I know you're a busy man, and you've got stuff going on through the rest of the year. So we could talk about it. It's nice of you to even offer to do that. I never was thinking that. I was thinking I was just going to strip that thing down. I was going to go ahead and stand in Bondo. No, no. I'm just giving you crap. Go ahead and have you reverse engineer it. But thank you, Bill. But I was thinking when I was talking to Brian, I said, listen, so I have this pin. I think it's a good candidate because I think Meteor in general has gained some newfound popularity, the way that it shoots. It's a space theme. People like space themes. So I was like, Brian, let's consider keeping this a space-themed pin.
    42:30
    And maybe we do some type of like tasteful space chicks with some crazy space stuff. I mean, nothing. And it's funny because one of my buddies, he messaged me, and it was Jason. He goes, are you doing like a Woe Nelly Big Juicy Meteors? And I'm like, no. No, it's not Woe Nelly Big Juicy Meteors. We're doing the Space Chimp Grabbing Butt. No, yeah. No, no, no. But I do want to have his stylized approach to like a graphic pin, but not an offensive pin, but something that space themes are popular in pinball. Meteor is a space theme. We can reskin this.
    43:09
    Well, I say easily because I'm just offering some art direction. And this guy, Brian, takes the ball and he runs with it. Sound is not an issue because there aren't any call outs or anything. I could keep the original sounds from Meteor, and it'll make sense with the theme. But yeah, re-stenciling the artwork on the cabinet, brand new mirrored back glass, brand new artwork on the play field, on the plastics, and then taking on all the assemblies, taking those apart, restoring those, and just blinging it out. So the goal here is to bring this to Chicagoland Pinball Expo in 2020. So that's kind of the timeline that we're working with. I think it's adequate time. Brian is able to work remotely on the artwork side. I'm able to kind of do everything here from the builder side, so to speak. And then, yeah, if I can get some help from you, not even necessarily with a cabinet build, because we could talk about that. That's a pretty big undertaking. No, it's 20 hours. But I would be incredible Dude I donate 20 hours to this project That be a cool idea man man And we thinking you know Expo 2020 we show up with a booth with maybe the Whirlwind maybe this Meteor project, maybe your Transformers project. Well, it's funny. All right, so over the weekend I was talking to the wife about Whirlwind because that's actually getting closed, but we'll talk about that soon. Talk about that in like one minute. um and uh yeah but i would like to bring you know if this goes through the way we'd like i'd like to bring whirlwind transformers and possibly getaway because the wife was even kind of like um surprised at how i wanted to do the next getaway oh yeah absolutely man hoping that you know maybe she steve richie's not going to do a getaway the bill's gonna have to do a getaway damn right yeah um you know sorry for the the swear word we just went a little little southern on there or something. What was that? Absolutely. I like it. Yeah, I have great ideas I think for Getaway that I'd like to see implemented. And the wife was even like, you know, really? Could you build that? Now you picked up a pin sound board at TPF and you're looking at doing like a whole new mix on Getaway, right? On your High Speed 2? Yes. And we're going to stream Bill Webb's remix of Getaway on our Twitch channel coming up here hopefully sooner than later, right? Yeah, we've got to figure out how to do it.
    45:27
    And implement it well where we can not get banned from Twitch for doing it. You've got a little explicit parental advisory thing going on with your re-theme of the music ideas. A little bit. Absolutely, man. I say we encourage this guy to run, you know, steal a jackpot instead of jackpot. It's drugs. Okay. You know, good times. Not that we endorse that. Just, you know. No, no, no, no. A little flair for the, you know, the game. Right. So, yeah. Something a little different. Yeah. But what is going on with the game? the whirlwind as we transition that way before we close out the show. Well, I hope we get this meteor done, or you get this meteor done, and I can help you in any way possible. This meteor I'm excited about, and I can't wait to offer my updates with Brian. And thanks, Brian, for working with us. And it's going to be fun. So anyone check out Silver Bullet if you have not. Yeah, check out that Brian Holderman Silver Bullet re-theme. And we're going in a little bit different direction with Meteor. I think Meteor, again, is a popular enough title, shoots well with a whole reskin. I think it'll be something that would be popular amongst people that are fans of the game. Yeah. Okay. So Whirlwind, though. Whirlwind update. Dun, dun, dun. Whirlwind is getting close.
    46:39
    Over the weekend, I got the fan running, which was something I wanted to see. On the topper, right? In October, yeah. Because on the topper, they just got that fan. Brand new fan, brand new fan motor, fan blade, all this stuff. Did you get chilly? when it turned on? Did you have to? My daughter's hair was blown when I held her head up to it, so I was like, cool. I just picture like poltergeist, like a hair blown in the back of a TV. Yeah, it wasn't that drastic. It was kind of more like the old Excel tapes from the 90s where the guy's sitting in the chair and his hair's blown. Oh, the Max Hell, right? Yeah, Max Hell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it wasn't that bad, but it was a good time. So that's going now. I got my sound issue figured out because there was a bad ROM, so that's going now. Bad ROM? Oh, bad sound? Yeah, bad ROM on the CPU. How did you know it was a bad thing? Bought new ones. Oh, just replaced them? Yeah, that's fine. Gotcha. What else?
    47:34
    All the stainless is in now. The plastics are on. I mean, honestly, if I just had a little bit of good luck, I think the top of the play field might be close by Sunday, this coming Sunday. And then I just have a bunch of gremlins to track down in all honesty. Right, just kind of polish it up. I mean, I got the coin door bugs worked out over the weekend with the switches. I got the sound figured out. A couple of switches found those problems.
    48:04
    Got some trace paper to mark where a lot of the posts and stuff that weren't marked went. So, I mean, it's really getting closer now. It actually feels like it's a game taken apart, not like we're building a game, which is refreshing.
    48:16
    Yeah, so, I mean, it's getting there. I'm still hoping. There was a time where I thought you were going to go, that there was no way you were going to hit that 4-20 deadline. Last week, you were like, dude, if you're done in six weeks from now, that'd be good. That's what I was thinking. You know what I mean? If you can get done by June 1st, I'm like, that's going to be pretty respectable. But now you're still potentially, in your opinion, within that April 20th deadline that you were talking about before Easter, right? Correct. Yeah, I wanted to play on Easter, or for my family Easter, which we're close. There's going to be a couple of things that down the road I'll want to change. Nothing like pimping out a complete restore of a game and then having a bunch of kids jack it up a little bit. Well, yeah, we're going to keep juice boxes downstairs so they can set it on the machine. Horrible. Yeah, and if anyone's looking for some Roman parts, hit me up because we've got a few of them. Oh, yeah, true. True, very good. Cabinet, whatever, topper, old topper. But, yeah, so keep old games alive. Well, we get that done. We've got to stream it, right? Well, we're going to stream it. We had a fun stream last week or two weeks ago, whatever that was. Yeah, I'm thinking maybe a couple weeks after the 20th of April we'll get that done or try and stream it. Okay. As long as there's no big hiccups or, you know, obligations that we have going on. But, yeah, that would be the goal. Speaking of streaming, like for those of you that have not had an opportunity to check out our streams, you can find us on Twitch. It's under Special When Lit Podcast, and it's just like all one word, and then we come up. You can see like the past streams that we've done. But what we're tentatively thinking about on Friday, because everybody's going to be anticipating this Jersey Jack reveal at 7 o'clock, right? And then at 7 o'clock when they reveal it, everyone's going to be watching the Buffalo Pinball stream of their Jersey Jack number five. So instead of us trying to compete with any of that, we're thinking about doing a Jersey Jack pinball tailgate party out here in St. Charles at the infamous Steve Beattie's house. We've got some special guests That are very Prominent people in pinball That will be attending And we're thinking maybe stream from like 5 To 645 Give you something to kind of get you settled in Before the big reveal Feel free to ask some questions about that next release We can answer the best that we can But just some fun banter We're going to have the podcast mics up and running And just have something similar that we did last week With Deadpool And then Jersey Jack takes the floor You guys watch that reveal. We all upload our content, special only pinball podcast with that panel interview, which is already done. This week in pinball with the deep dive on their page and then straight down the middle of pinball show with their their video reveal deep dive on the game. So keep that in mind. I did want to go ahead and just a little special mention to the Slap Slate Pinball podcast out of St. Louis, Missouri. So Jason Fowler and Christopher Haper, they started that show. I think they went 15, 16 episodes in.
    51:07
    Ironically, after the April Fool's shenanigans, that podcast has gone into another direction where Jason and Chris have split ways. Jason is going to get... Split sounds bad. We're going to say parted. Okay. Well, hey, parted ways. Yeah. Split ways, parted ways.
    51:25
    Jason's going in another direction with the show. Chris has decided to kind of step away. I don't think that we've seen the last of Chris as far as pinball podcasting goes. But they just decided at some point moving forward was best if they had split and gone their own separate ways. So sad to see that happen because it was a very good dynamic for the show. They did have great chemistry between the two. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But you know what? I mean, you know how it goes, man. You've got a commitment, and it's tough sometimes. you've got creative people that see things going in different ways, and you have to realize that and make a decision. So kudos to those guys that are figuring it out earlier where it's like, hey, let's maintain a friendship and move forward. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. So, I mean, you've thrown me off the show before. I've never. In fact, I was thrown off the show last week. But I did want to say, you know, good luck to Jason moving forward with Slap Save, and good luck to Chris, man. I want to see where he ends up or where he goes. with you can still hit his uh his streaming channel on twitch yeah so i mean that's pretty cool um i've got a lot of respect for both of those guys yeah it's a shame but you know what i mean things are going to happen and you know they're both great guys and looking forward uh seeing uh the new turn of events absolutely absolutely nothing but the best for them that being said i think that wraps up episode number 46 of the special inlet pinball podcast bill you got anything else to add here no everybody uh tune in friday um friday's new stuff man yeah That's like the night before Christmas. Now, I think I'm a little more excited about this than maybe some other people in this room. But I think Friday, not that you're not excited, but maybe I'm overly excited about what the world is about to see on Friday. You have one on order. So, yes, you are very excited. I'm on the list to order it because I don't think you can officially order anything until it's released. But don't think for a second that I didn't utilize my friend and distributor, which is Flippin' Out Pinball, Zach Minney. For those of you looking for a new pinball experience or looking for a trustworthy distributor, he does not sponsor the show. Full disclosure, he's a buddy of mine and happy to order from him. I want to elaborate on that, though. You know what, Joe? They came out on Friday, too, and did a whole bunch of video on this machine. Not saying you should buy from them just because of that, but, I mean, they do bring the content so you guys can at least see the stuff. Yeah, I agree. So if you're not married to any one distributor, I would say give them a chance just because, you know, good guy, and they try to bring great video to the table for you guys to see it. That's a good point, man. You have to have a relationship with your distributor. I mean, because, one, it's a big financial purchase, and, two, you want to be in the know. You want to know what the status is on your pinball machine, and you never want to have to feel guilty about asking. The one thing I can say for sure for Zach is that he does have an open line of communication, and he enjoys talking pinball because literally this guy is just as excited about these games that are coming out as you are, and nothing makes this guy more happy than having him playing a part in getting a machine in your home or in your business. And that's, again, not a paid endorsement or anything like that. I've got that much faith in him. He is. He's a friend. But you know what? Honestly, everything that I know of Zach, he's very transparent in everything that he does. He's an honest guy. And if you're going to be trying to get in business doing something like that, that's how you have to be. And I say this just because of prior experiences trying to get a hold of distributors. Yeah, right. And you're waiting for a callback for four, five, six, seven days. It just happens. Those guys are busy too. A lot of these distributors aren't. Oh, I know. It's a second part-time job for them. And I totally get that. And the struggle is real for them. It's just hard because when you're not thinking of that, you're thinking, I want to give you money. and you can't take a phone call for me to give you money. Yeah, I've had a couple situations like that. So it's tough. Yeah, I mean, everyone goes through different things. But you also know these guys aren't purposely turning away money. No, no. It's just the way things pan out. So anyways, again. Flippin' out? Yeah, if I wasn't down with Zach and Flippin' Out, I simply wouldn't mention them. I wouldn't, again, put my credibility on the line like I'm doing with the next release from Georgia Tech Pinball. So give them a try. Yeah. Give them a try if you can. I wanted to go ahead and thank LearnMods.com, Rob and Kim. Thank you guys for sponsoring the Drain It or Save It segment. I want to thank the listeners for listening to the show. I want to let you know how you can get a hold of us. You can go to our Facebook page, which is Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. Now, when you're searching for us in podcast apps or podcast pages, it's important that you spell everything out with spaces. And that's Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. Now, if you're listening to us now, chances are it's because you found us. but if you have a hard time finding us somewhere or you're trying to get us on your Amazon Alexa, it's almost impossible to do that because Special When Lit pulls up a bunch of other stuff before you can say Pinball Podcast. But again, we're Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. If you want to email the show, specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. Drop us a line. Let us know what you like, what you don't like, what you want to hear, what you don't want to hear. Or you know what? Let's just open up the line of communication and play some pinball. And then finally, on Twitch, special when lit podcast, all one word with no spaces. Go ahead and do me a favor. If you have not followed us, we're not asking for subscriptions or anything like that. Follow the channel because what will happen is whenever we go live, you'll get a notification that we are going live and that we're streaming something. Honestly, the best thing about our channel is not the streaming. It's the conversation that goes on during the streaming. it's like a live podcast and it's an opportunity for you guys to kind of jump in and join in with us on a conversation and it's fun as hell i'm not even gonna lie to you the last one was hilarious it was awesome it was such a good time so please consider special when lit podcast on twitch just follow us and uh we'll take it from there and don't forget to keep an eye out for uh instagram as we are going to be trying to launch that here real soon yeah bill's taking on the instagram uh channel or Instagram site. We're trying to learn it. And you're doing the MySpace page too, right? Yeah, MySpace. Yeah, we'll see how it goes though. Do we start a Twitter? Does anybody read Twitter on Pitball Podcast? I thought about setting one up. Here, the three I thought about was Instagram, but I've had more people say Instagram is more prevalent.
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    Pinterest, but I don't really know if Pinterest would make sense on this. I don't know. Maybe we're cutting edge on Pinterest. I have no clue. Yeah. Or we're going to look like, you know, Crashman's.
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    And then the other one was MySpace. MySpace? That's a big one. It might be trending down. I don't think it can trend down any more than it already has. Did you ever have a MySpace page? Yeah, absolutely. I wonder if you can still log into that. You can, but other than seeing your old pictures, it's all changed. I don't know that anybody should see my old pictures, but that would be kind of fun to search. I'd be curious to see it. I think the last time I updated my MySpace page, it was like me playing a guitar with a bunch of bottles of Miller Lite around me. Actually, things haven't gone too far, except I'm playing pinball instead of guitars now. So if anyone has any feedback, we're going to try and do the Instagram, maybe a Pinterest, and maybe a Twitter, but I don't know if the other two make sense. Well, good, man. That's going to be it for episode number 46. For Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And do not forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball, and don't forget to join us on Friday night. So long, everybody.