Episode 279: Kim Martinez

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·31m 0s·analyzed·Sep 13, 2020

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Kim Martinez discusses women's pinball tournaments, community organizing, and DEI initiatives in pinball.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Kim Martinez, a tournament director and women's pinball advocate from Columbus, Ohio, about organizing the Women's Royal Rumble at Cleapin, leading Level One Barn Arcade's pinball community, and her work on the IFPA Women's Advisory Board addressing diversity, accessibility, and representation in pinball.

Key Claims

The first Women's Royal Rumble at Cleapin featured 16 women competing in a ladder match for a WWE-style belt, with sponsorship from Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, and various podcasts.
high confidence · Kim Martinez describing the event structure and sponsors directly.
Level One Barn Arcade's league had approximately 70 players meeting weekly on Mondays before COVID-19 shutdowns.
high confidence · Kim Martinez stating 'our league had about 70 people. We would meet on Mondays.'
A new Stern pinball machine costs upwards of $5,000; used machines cost at least $1,200-$1,300.
high confidence · Kim Martinez directly citing pricing barriers to entry.
Kim Martinez believes socioeconomic barriers and lack of media representation are the primary obstacles to diversifying competitive pinball.
high confidence · Extended discussion about cost of entry and media visibility as key issues.
Carlos de la Cerda (Twitch: Lazer_Los) from Columbus performed a 900 million point 'death blow' on Iron Maiden and could rank in the top 50 globally if not for travel costs and economic barriers.
medium confidence · Kim Martinez crediting Carlos de la Cerda as an exceptional player and teacher limited by economic constraints.
Kim Martinez was asked to participate in a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles-related project (filmed early August) specifically for representation purposes, but details were embargoed.
medium confidence · Kim stating 'I guess I'm not allowed to talk about it yet' regarding TMNT involvement.
The IFPA Women's Advisory Board is working on initiatives addressing TD training, financial accessibility, and cultural dimensions of identity in tournament organizing.
high confidence · Kim Martinez discussing her role and work on the board.
Ohio has an exceptionally strong female pinball player base including Megan Brown, Amy Kesting, Holly Koskinen, Brie Reynolds, Deborah Tallman, and Jen Rupert.

Notable Quotes

“I think the landscape cannot change unless you actually have people in charge that are the change that you're willing to seek out.”
Kim Martinez @ ~18:30 — Core philosophy on why she advocates for more female tournament directors and leadership.
“I have no doubt that the best pinball player in the world hasn't played pinball yet.”
Jeff Teolis @ ~48:00 — Encapsulates the barrier-to-entry argument: latent talent pool excluded by cost and access.
“There's a lot of socioeconomic barriers when it comes to pinball. It is a hobby that is not cheap. It's not accessible.”
Kim Martinez @ ~42:00 — Direct statement of core accessibility barrier Kim frames as central issue.
“What tends to happen is an echo chamber...There's not really one person that has been allowed to kind of breach that circle and say, have you tried this, though?”
Kim Martinez @ ~56:30 — Critique of lack of diverse voices in pinball company decision-making and media.
“The camaraderie is just off the charts between the competitors in these women's events.”
Jeff Teolis @ ~10:00 — Highlights the supportive, inclusive culture that distinguishes women's pinball events.
“This is something that is very truthful with a lot of people, myself included. You become complacent in the world that you're living in...There wasn't that [distraction]. So all there was was just this glaring example of something that is very, very wrong.”
Kim Martinez @ ~32:00 — Reflection on how COVID-19 and social unrest forced confrontation with systemic issues.

Entities

Kim MartinezpersonLevel One Barn ArcadeorganizationWomen's Royal RumbleeventCleapin (Cleveland Pinball & Arcade Show)eventBells and ChimesorganizationIFPA Women's Advisory BoardorganizationCarlos de la Cerda (Lazer_Los)person

Signals

?
design_philosophy: Pinball's high barrier to entry (new machines $5,000+, used $1,200-$1,300) creates socioeconomic exclusion and prevents latent talent pool from participating, identified as primary obstacle to diversity.
high · Kim Martinez: 'It is a hobby that is not cheap. It's not accessible...a new Stern game, you're going to spend upwards to $5,000.' Jeff: 'The best pinball player in the world hasn't played pinball yet.'
?
business_signal: Mom-and-pop arcade/bar venues facing existential crisis during COVID-19; caught between supporting players and managing safety/financial viability. Level One Barn Arcade (and similar venues) central to competitive pinball infrastructure.
high · Kim Martinez on COVID closure: 'It was a very surreal moment of just kind of closing everything up and not wondering when I was going to come back.' Emphasis on venues' importance: 'the resurgence of competitive pinball...probably wouldn't be as large...without pinball arcade spots and bars.'
?
event_signal: Tiny Tim Tournament Series launched at Level One Barn Arcade during COVID-19 as adaptive event format (selfie/score submission, then pivot to small in-person tournament with safety controls), demonstrating operator/TD innovation under constraints. Streamed live Mondays 7:30 PM on Twitch (level1bar).
high · Kim Martinez: 'Tiny Tim Tournament Series...tiny tournament with tiny money and tiny glory...started with doing just kind of like a selfie thing...people could come in whenever they wanted...later I figured, you know what, I'm just going to go for it.'
?
event_signal: Women's Royal Rumble at Cleapin (2019) was first annual women-focused pinball tournament with separate dedicated streaming, professional production (Level One Barn Arcade streaming team), and multiple manufacturer sponsorships, signaling growing institutional support for women's events.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.093

0:00

It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, past episodes, subscriptions, and more. You can also find us on Facebook or on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. Please email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. So very pleased to be talking to today a special guest that I probably would be seeing actually right now at Cleepin, should it have happened, unfortunately, but this damn coronavirus. That's okay. We can talk via Skype. Kim Martinez joins us. Hi, Kim. How are you? Hey, Jeff. I'm doing well. I'm bummed I'm not in Cleveland or Independence, Ohio, I should say. But Cleepin's been a lot of fun for me for several years, and I know you appreciate it as well, too. Yeah, I'm equally as bummed, if not more, because this would have been the second annual Women's Royal Rumble that I put together with my group of assistant TDs. And we kind of did our first one last year and it was a really great success. So I was incredibly excited to be able to come back and do that again. But as you said, that darn Corona. It was a huge success. In fact, I briefly talked to you on Pinball Profile as I was recapping Cleapin about the Women's Royal Rumble. But for those that missed it, explain what this huge, and it was huge, event is. So this was kind of one of my brain babies, but it was an all-women's tournament. It was the women's tournament. And again, big shout out to Don and Joe and everyone that helped us. They ensured that we had a separate room with our own bank to be able to do this and pull this off. But basically, it was a match play qualifying for basically half the day of match play qualifying. 16 women would go on to compete in a ladder match to become basically the top female. And I had a WWE style belt made a bunch of awesome sponsors like Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, and a lot of different podcasts like Backbox Pinball Podcast and things like that. It was fun. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And I think if I go back, I want to say the first time I think I ever saw a women's tournament might have been at Klee Penn. Klee Penn, for those that haven't been there, is a huge tournament. It's part of the Stern Pro Circuit. But that aside, the showroom is massive, and there's just all kinds of games. The newest titles, but some classics, some really nice custom machines, and just games you don't get to see unless you're at some place like a Papa facility or something like that or Pinberg. And that was always a neat attraction to me. But I remember years ago seeing this women's tournament done in the normal bank. But what you did last year where you had that separate room, I mean, that was, you just took it to a whole new level. Well, thank you. Like I said, I had a great team of people behind me. And then I worked at Level One Barn Arcade. And we were sponsored streaming-wise from them who sent up all of the streaming equipment that I needed and got Veef. He came up and he assisted me and basically helped me put on the streaming portion for the women. So we had our own streaming. We were able to have a separate channel for the women's tournament as well. I've always been amazed whether it's bells and chimes, chapters, whether it's tournaments like this one, just watching the great competition for one. But secondly, just the real feel-good atmosphere of this, of Whipped, of all these big events, and just kind of, I'll say the word, jealous. I wish all events were like this because everyone seems to be having so much fun, and I'm sure you're competing, but the camaraderie is just off the charts between the competitors in these women's events. I definitely agree. There's a lot more, I don't want to say casual, but it makes you feel more at ease a little bit just because everyone is really smiling and everybody is just saying hey. And a lot of the time, if you do have a question, there are plenty of people that jump up and say, I can answer that for you. You want to learn something? What are you struggling with? And that's super important. That's something that I try to bring into my own league, open or not. Kim, that is the common thread I hear when I hear of women's leagues, women's tournaments, about that helpful nature, about fun. Do you want to learn? I'm here to assist. Just kind of really bringing people into pinball. In this case, the people that are participating in the women's tournaments. Why can't that be the same for general leagues? Why do the women's leagues have it so right? And why can't all other leagues get that? Invite people in. Teach them. Show them how it's fun. Right. Doesn't always translate that way. So I think, and this is something, you know, I'm sure we'll touch on this at a later base. But I mean, it's one of the reasons why I did join the Women's Advisory Board for ISPA. And it's something that I'm a very big proponent of. I think just as in a company, up in the management needs to reflect how you would like the entirety of the company to run. Because I don't actually run any women's tournaments. There's a separate Bells and Chimes chapter that operates all of them. Oops, I lost you there for a second. Let's try another connection there. Hey, Kim. Yeah. You were saying there was a separate Bells and Chimes chapter? Yes. So like we have the Bells and Chimes chapter in Columbus and they operate all of our women's leagues and they've done great things for that. I run our open tournaments and our open league here, which, like I said, a little before coronavirus, our league had about 70 people. We would meet on Mondays. I would do all of our tournaments. And this is one of the big things that I am very passionate about is getting more women who are interested in learning how to become TDs and learning how to become tournament directors and being tournament directors and getting them to get comfortable enough to want to run more open events. because I think that the landscape cannot change unless you actually have people in charge that are the change that you're willing to seek out. So I think that there needs to be more women involved with open tournaments, whether it starts off small or whether it's the larger tournaments at hand, but more TOs and TDs that are female in a lot of bigger named tournaments. that I think is personally one of my goals because I think it's really important to have that different outlook and that different perspective. And I don't think that our league would have grown as much or as big if that weren't the case. I mean, I want to say that we have a very solid, or we used to have, like I can't talk about it now on the now because 2020 kind of shot everything in the foot. But beforehand, I thought we had a very solid, diverse group of female to male ratio. We had a lot of younger players mixed. Like we had a pretty solid, diverse group of people that were coming out. And I try very hard to make it that same very welcoming, like, hey, you have a question? Come stand next to me. You know, like it's a lot of grassrooted effort of like, I see you're watching us play pinball. Do you want to come and hang out with us? And I think that that sentiment of trying to make open tournaments more inviting as opposed to solely women's tournaments, you need to gradually have more female-led or more diverse-led tournaments is what you need. I think that's a great initiative. And I think Ohio is definitely setting the scene for that. Look at the volume of events and great players in Ohio I mean if they ever decide to do I know they have North American Championships and the Women Championship the International Pinball Tournament but if they ever kind of decide to group states together, Ohio would be the biggest powerhouse. I think of you, Megan Brown, Amy Kesting, Holly Koskinen, Brie Reynolds, Deborah Tallman, Jen Rupert, all great players in Ohio. And I think it's because you've bred this kind of welcoming environment and exposure. And whatever you're doing in Ohio, it's working. It'd be nice to see it kind of filter out in other states and provinces and countries. Yeah, no, and I absolutely agree with that. I do think Ohio is definitely, like, again, this is also kudos to, you know, a bunch of other TDs that work in Ohio all over. You know, John Geiger, unfortunately, like I said, I don't know if RKT Super Awesome is coming back anytime soon. with COVID, but like Joe, Don, Jesse down in Cincinnati, there's just so many people. And like I said, our Bells and Chimes chapter with Jen and Tish and Rhonda Wamsley, they do great work. There's a lot of people that have been working in various areas of this scene to make it what it is. I can hear the sadness and the pain in your voice. And I think we're all feeling it, myself included, when we talk about some of these wonderful locations that have hosted pinball and these events that have brought an exposure to different players, a diverse group for sure. And coronavirus has really smacked us in the mouth, so to speak, with what we've seen for cancellations and closures. And you mentioned some there, and I know you're at level one too. And it's been a struggle. Obviously, safety is first and foremost on everyone's mind, but the livelihood is also just as equal to many people. And in fact, when you and I were originally going to record this, I think the timing didn't work out because you were running an event at level one. Right. What was the event that was at level one? So we started doing a little series called the Tiny Tim Tournament Series. And I tooted as a tiny tournament with tiny money and tiny glory because it's very small. It's very small compared to what we used to do. Oh, I thought it was like a tiptoe through the tulips ukulele type thing or something.

9:55

Well, I did threaten everybody that signed up that I was going to play tiptoe through the tulips on for the entirety of the tournament but i think i got x-nayed and yeah so i don't think they enjoyed my my joke of forcing them to listen to tiny tim the entire time but you are actually still doing some sort of competitive event and just again that exposure to pinball that what you're doing is the thing i miss the most i miss the people and gathering together the competition i've now realized is secondary but here you are kind of ticking all the boxes and you're bringing people together and you're having some competition. That's great. Yeah, it was a lot of discussion and a lot of back and forth to figure out how to do it as safely and as ethically correct as possible and something that I could feel morally sound doing. And also, I definitely tiptoe a very, a very strong line that I think a lot of arcade owners and a lot of bar arcade owners have been dealing with where you want your plays to succeed. Unfortunately, you need people in your place, but you also care about their well-being and you understand the stakes and the predicament that we as a global community are in. So it's one of those things where it's like you're just, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. And like I said, it was a lot of talking back and forth. At first we started with doing just kind of like a selfie thing. So like each week I would pick a pinball machine in an arcade game and people could come in whenever they wanted and take a selfie with their score. And then, you know, we would give prize to the top score. But I realized that people were trying to make tournaments happen at our place, you know, quietly. And I figured instead of it being a squeaky type of thing, I figured, you know what, I'm just going to go for it. I'm going to take over. And that way I have a little bit more control over, like, how many people are coming in or, you know, so that I could actually set the parameters and deal with the logistics of it from our end. So for those that have never been to Level One, kind of explain, is it a bar? Is it a family center? Is it an arcade? It is all of the above. We are just a little mom and pop shop owned by my owners, Laren and Paul and Tom from TNT Amusements, you know, Tom and Tish. But basically, it's just we have a little bar, like we have a bar in the back, and it's definitely styled to just remind you and give you like a blast from the past of like a regular art, like an arcade feeling. So you walk in and there's just about 40 some arcade machines and then an entire wall of pinball to the right. And we just sell drinks and have you go play some arcades and pinballs. I mean, we fit a lot of boxes, but that also meant that we fell into quite a bit of a gray area when COVID hit. It's a bit of a pipe dream to think, OK, yeah, we're in this coronavirus right now. If we can all just press the pause button and then everything will come back to normal once we have a vaccine or things get back to normal. But we can't pause. People need to eat. People need to make money. People have rents to pay and all their other bills and stuff. And so that's the difficulty with, you know, level one and every other place that you can imagine that a lot of people listening to this program right now are local patrons of. We've got to find a way to move on safely, but still show support because there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are going to get through this. We just have to bridge the gap. And that's something that I think hopefully my fellow women and other directors, all of my directors on IFPA don't send ninjas to kill me. But I'm pretty sure we're working on trying to create like an appreciation spotlight post of like different places all across the country and all across the globe that of different ways that people can support them if they want to support them, you know, because this is an unprecedented time. And those people, most of these places are just little mom and pop shops that have a lot of heart and a lot of soul and are just trying to make it through. And so I think it's something that we have been talking about of being able to kind of make almost like a little spotlight of the week or whatnot of like, hey, this place exists. They have an online store too, or you can go and get gift cards or something. You know, if you're local, you don't have to, obviously, we're not trying to get people to go somewhere if they're not feeling comfortable or whatnot, but, you know, offer different alternatives into supporting, you know, different local arcade and pinball establishments because the resurgence of pinball and the resurgence of competitive pinball in the way that we see it now probably wouldn't be as large or as big as it has been without pinball arcade spots and bars that have come back with this retro outfitted, like, you know, pinball machines and arcade. So, I mean, a lot of the big leagues, a lot of the larger leagues are hosted within bars and are hosted within these types of establishments. And for the most part, they're all just mom and pop shops. Yeah. Any highlighting of those places would be wonderful too. We've seen the GoFundMe pages, we've seen the gift certificate pushes or merchandise and anything that would certainly help because we are going to get through this. It's just right now we're in this lull. And I think of one of the things that we've lost too is, you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles came out a few months ago. Now you've got Avengers Infinity Quest and something's missing. Oh, the Stern launches are missing because they can happen And I know that something that big to you You actually did very very well at the Jurassic Park one Oh yeah I suppose I did You did I got second I was hot up on Red Bull that day I think I had like five of them, and Scott actually was on camera, and he was just like, yeah, she's doing it right now. She's going. I was like, whew. I had a long day. That's my ritual. I drink a lot of Red Bull, and hopefully I just power through. Wow.

16:12

But we're joking about this, but that's one event. You are loyal and, like many people, participate not only in special events like that, but weekly events. And I don't know if there was a week that went by that I didn't play pinball in some either league or tournament prior to this. You're the exact same. And how are you dealing with the void? It's definitely a void. I've done, especially when everything was shut down, I think that's where it was the hardest. Like at least at this point in time, I'm going to work. And now that other places have kind of opened up, I've tried to get out there to support them as well, at least once or twice. so like now I'm a little bit better but definitely the first because we were shut down basically for two months I was actually there at the bar I was doing an opening shift and we were just sitting there watching the tv and I just remember at three o'clock they gave the announcement and having been I think there's about three maybe four of us left that have been here like have been with this bar since it opened. And basically my manager, my GM came in and we were the two that started with this bar and we just sat there and we got to close it up for, it felt like the final time. And it was a very surreal moment of just kind of closing everything up and not wondering when I was going to come back. And for like those two months, it was really odd. I tried to do a lot of different things to figure out how to pass the time because I'm a very competitive person. When I get into something, I go in head first and I just, I get very passionate. So like pinball is definitely my passion. And it was just one of those things where it's like, I tried everything. I tried to go back into art just to see, you know, like just to pass the time, but I still wanted to play pinball. I tried playing pinball FX, but it just didn't feel the I tried cooking meals for everyone and then that also got a little taxing. And I don't know. It was hard. I was definitely just trying to keep active, like keep my mind active while I was waiting for the return notice of some sort. I think you are not alone in some of those feelings and question marks about what the future is going to hold. I know for me, April and May were not good months personally for me, mentally, anxiety, depressed, just fearful of the future. And, you know, it was some dark times. And we may have another outbreak and another hopefully not shutdown. I think we've learned, you know, from some mistakes. But I think we're a little better prepared for it in the future. But we're not too far removed from how scary those months were. And then you add to the fact that there was this ongoing example of horrible racism, not just in your country, but we see it everywhere. So I don't want to isolate the United States because it does happen everywhere. And then these protests began. And the reason I bring this up is because Kim, you and I were talking before we started recording about watching you Facebook Live as you were going to one of these protests that happened all around the world. This just happened to be in Columbus, Ohio. and I mentioned to you that I couldn't take my eyes off that because I wasn't in a city where that was taking place myself. Even though I live in a town of under 200,000, we actually did have city hall protests, but not quite to the extent we're seeing in larger cities like Columbus. And just watching that with everything else that was going on, it was just like, wow, this is such an important issue that who thought coronavirus would take a backseat or move off the front page when this happened? But it was that big, and it still is this big to this day, and we're seeing hopefully some changes. We're not seeing an event that happened, and we just don't talk about it ever again. It's still continuing to be talked about, and we're looking for solutions. There's no more compliance, if you will, and hopefully we're seeing some changes. And I know with you and the Women's Advisory Board, that is a major goal to see positive changes. Yeah, it is definitely a major goal. It is a difficult topic to grasp and to tackle. I did go to several protests and organized a few. I think Trevor Noah actually said it best. This was the only way that something like this would happen is on the backdrop of something like coronavirus, because coronavirus caused the whole world to pause in a way that forced a lot of people to not have anything else to preoccupy their time or to distract them from what they were seeing. And I think this is something that is very truthful with a lot of people, myself included. You become complacent in the world that you're living in because the real world and the reality of it is most people live within a very small nucleus of their worries and immediate worries. You know, how am I going to make ends meet? Like my bills are due. Rent is due. I have to go to work. I go to work usually nine to five or, you know, five days a week, six days a week. And there wasn't that for the most part for a lot of people. So all there was was just this glaring example of something that is very, very wrong and has been very, very wrong and continues to be very, very wrong. And there was no more distractions of regular life of, well, you know, I can't do that because I have to go to work. Like I have to be at work or, you know, I have to. There was none of that. There was just you're watching this. You're watching it happen. and you're just sitting here with those thoughts of, well, what's going to happen? Well, how can I affect change? You know, what can I do? And that was something that, you know, propelled me to move and to pick up my feet again. I used to be very, very vocal, and like I said, adult responsibilities. Kind of quenched, not quenched in a way, but, you know, I threw a little bit of water on the fire and I just kind of kept moving because you just got to keep going with your schedule, keep doing what, you know, what's become habits and what you feel is normal. And this kind of shook what people's normalcy was. So I think there was no other way that this could have actually happened outside of something like this. And I know that the Women's Advisory Board and myself included, all the directors at IFDA have been talking about changes, about what we can do. And again, it does come down to better teaching TDs. But what I've talked to a lot of people about and what I'm very adamant about is that there's a lot of socioeconomic barriers when it comes to pinball. It is a hobby that is not cheap It not accessible It hasn been really unless we actually look at that It won ever be It is not an accessible hobby in that way shape or form because unfortunately to own a machine you're spending at least, at least like on a semi new one, you're spending at least $1,200 to $1,300. And that's, again, maybe one that's quite a bit older, maybe one that's not, you know, not what you're looking for. But on a new Stern game, you're going to spend upwards to $5,000. That's something that a lot of people don't have. Oh, for sure. You'd mentioned the Women's Advisory Board has been working on some different initiatives, certainly some understanding for TDs, for leagues. You know, you talked about the financial aspect, but also to the, you know, the cultural understanding and the different dimensions of identity too, that I think we need to be more aware of. I think that's really important. Just speaking in regards to, say, gaming culture in general, with the gaming culture the way that it is. Say you look at the fighting game community, you know, the guys that play Street Fighters, all of those fighting games. The game is so accessible that in a way they operate under a certain meritocracy. The console is so accessible and everything to do with it is so much more available.

26:09

It's a it's an expensive hobby. I wish there was a solution that I don't have, but I know greater minds are thinking about it. But you're right. We've talked about it before. Just a game like Fortnite. Here it is. It's free. You just have to have the console. But so many people have access to that. That's not the case with pinball. Exactly. So here's another small example. I mean, now, luckily, level one does have a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. But there was something that I was doing, and I guess I'm not allowed to talk about it yet. So this is going to be shrouded in mystery. But there was something that I was doing that involved Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. and this was, gosh, I think we were filming like back in early August, but they asked me to be a part of it. I have no doubt that they asked me because they were hoping for more representation, which I am all for because unfortunately, I think not only does socioeconomic barriers pose the biggest hurdle and something that we need to tackle. And like you said, it's a very, very difficult issue. It's very complicated. It's a complicated issue that doesn't have an easy solution. And I understand that. Another example is media representation. I think that that is probably the, I don't even know if it's like the smallest step, but it is, it is the closest step that we can take currently right now is ensuring that there is better media representation of the people, you know, of BIPOC players, female players that do deserve to be highlighted. You know, I think it's something that needs to be talked about in podcast streaming. There's so many players that could be highlighted with a little bit more research and a little bit more reaching out. There are plenty of people that could take up that space, and people need to see that because the more that you have that visual representation of that, again, it's that whole entire idea of you have to put about the image that you want to see in the future. So, I mean, if you're looking for more diversity, you have to show that diversity. You have to take smaller steps, whether, like I said, it's in the media representation or it's in pinball companies deciding to actually hire an outside artist that may be a black artist and give them a spotlight chance. I don't know all the politics that comes with, you know, working for a pinball company, but there are plenty of creative minds out there that would salivate at the chance. There needs to be someone there bringing this up because what tends to happen is an echo chamber. What tends to happen is just everyone sitting around patting each other's back saying, we're doing the best that we can. And there's not really one person that, you know, has been allowed to kind of breach that circle and say, have you tried this, though, you know, to possibly change the outlook or change the direction in which, you know, those companies have been operating or the way that our media looks. I think these are all great suggestions. I think people are listening to this. People have been hearing this from others than yourself. and fingers crossed, we're going to see some positive results. I know what the Women's Advisory Board is doing. Great changes have already happened and will continue to happen. And it's because of people like you, Kim. Thanks, Jeff. I don't feel like I've been doing enough, but there's always room for improvement. And anybody can help too, right? So how can people contact you at the Women's Advisory Board? We have an email. It is ifpawomen at gmail.com. Okay. Reach out to Kim or anybody on the board if you have some ideas or are looking for some advice because they're quick to respond and they want to know what you're thinking and what's going on in your pinball community. Kim, it's been a pleasure to talk to you once again. Best of luck with your Tiny Tim events. I think those are really fun at level one. Thank you. And I hope things go well for you. Yeah, no problem. Sorry, I'm going to do a really quick plug. If you guys want to watch our Tiny Tim tournament series, we actually go live and stream them every Monday at 7.30 on our Twitch channel, which is twitch.tv slash level1bar, all spelled out. Okay. We'll put that link up as well. I think that's a great idea. I'll check it out. Tiny Tim event coming up at level 1. Kim, thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Check us out on our Facebook group and also on Twitter and Instagram at Pinball Profile. You can email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teolas.