Episode 27 - Operator Spotlight: Pinball Over Boston

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·51m 26s·analyzed·Apr 22, 2024

Buzzsprout-14824080

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Boston operator Mitch shares 10-year journey building quality pinball route against low-quality competition.

Summary

Mitch of Pinball Over Boston discusses his 10-year journey as a pinball operator in the Boston area, starting from passion for the game and frustration with a low-quality operator, to building a route of 70-80 machines across three locations (Flat Top Johnny Pinball's, Roxy's Arcade, and Double Bowl Tap House). He covers operator philosophy, pricing strategy, game selection, the challenges of competing with broken cheaper machines, and the COVID impact on his business.

Key Claims

Mitch has been operating pinball machines for roughly 10 years, approaching his May 2014 anniversary
high confidence · Mitch directly stated 'I'm actually coming up on my 10-year anniversary. I can't even believe it... May of 2014.'
The dominant Boston-area operator used 8-year auto-renewing contracts with penalty fees to keep broken games in venues
high confidence · Mitch explained: 'their contract, I believe it was eight years, and it would automatically renew. And basically, if you tried to cancel it at any point, it would be a breach of the contract, and then you would have to pay them to take their trash games out.'
Mitch started with four games: High Speed 2, 8-Ball Deluxe, Lord of the Rings, and Austin Powers
high confidence · Mitch stated: 'My first four games, if I remember correctly, was High Speed 2, an 8-Ball Deluxe, a Lord of the Rings, and an Austin Powers.'
Flat Top Johnny Pinball's grew from 2 machines to 12 pinball machines by the time it closed during COVID
high confidence · Mitch said: 'by the time the place closed in COVID, I think we're up to like 12 pinball machines.'
Mitch now operates 70-80 pieces of amusement equipment total across three locations
high confidence · Mitch stated: 'I think total total pieces of equipment are probably like 70. 70 to 80?'
Mitch worked at Gentle Giant Moving Company before becoming a full-time operator
high confidence · Mitch explained: 'I worked at a company called Gentle Giant Moving Company. So I started in college just as a mover... And then... I went into the marketing department.'
Mitch was initially nervous about renting games during COVID due to contract liability concerns
high confidence · Mitch said: 'I was nervous if I'm being honest, because you know, you have to get into a contract situation... Am I on the hook for tech support?'
Mitch charged $1 per play for newer Stern machines for most of his operating history

Notable Quotes

“It's like I try not to even say it out loud to jinx myself because it's just like, you know, I never wanted to end. It's the best job I've ever had.”
Mitch @ Early in episode — Demonstrates Mitch's passion for operating and long-term commitment to the business despite challenges
“This level of operator inspired me to be like, well, it's this shitty. I can do it better than that.”
Mitch @ Mid-episode — Core motivation for starting his business—frustration with the existing low-quality operator
“The only thing I had, I was equipped with just my extreme passion for pinball. And like to me, anything less than 100 percent playing was unacceptable.”
Mitch @ Mid-episode — Defines his operator philosophy: quality maintenance and passion over profit margins
“Your reputation is people walk into a place and they see games on and they see games playing well and that is your whole reputation.”
Alan (host) @ Mid-episode — Key industry wisdom about operator reputation and why 24-48 hour repair standards matter
“I'm a pinball head, so I'm always going to make sure the pinball's around. And you're sort of doing the reverse.”
Alan (host) @ Mid-episode — Highlights how Mitch's pinball passion differentiates him from general amusement operators
“If that's what's making the difference, maybe you should just be staying at home. Like, at the end of the day... the prices for playing pinball are like stuck where they were 30 years ago.”
Alex the Waterboy @ Late episode — Articulates frustration with price complaints from skilled players and the stagnation of pricing in the industry
“It's funny because it's like that's the same hobby. They exist in the same world, and it's so weird.”
Alan (host) @ Late episode — Highlights the disconnect between wealthy home collectors and location players in pinball culture

Entities

MitchpersonAlanpersonAlex the WaterboypersonRodseypersonPinball Over BostoncompanyFlat Top Johnny Pinball'svenueRoxy's Arcade Grilled CheesevenueDouble Bowl Tap HousevenueGentle Giant Moving CompanycompanyWedgehead Pinball Podcastcontent

Signals

?
operational_signal: Mitch grew from 2 initial machines at Flat Top Johnny Pinball's to 12 machines organically over time through regular tournaments and location integration, demonstrating effective venue relationship management and gradual expansion strategy
high · Mitch explained: 'Every month I would be in talks with the owner, be like, hey, we're going to do a tournament this coming Sunday. Can I bring in an extra game or two? And he would say, sure. And then Monday would come and I wouldn't remove them.'
?
operational_signal: Emphasis on maintaining 24-48 hour repair turnarounds and having spare machines in rotation to prevent locations from having down machines, critical to reputation management
high · Alan: 'you should have a couple of games that are working that you can rotate in because if you have a game that goes down with a major problem, the best thing you want to do is always have every game fixed within 24 hours or 48 hours'
$
market_signal: Ongoing tension between operators trying to undercut each other on pricing (50 cent vs dollar play) despite higher machine costs, squeezing operator margins and creating unsustainable race-to-the-bottom dynamics
high · Mitch: 'people would be like, hey, you know, you can still play 50 cent pinball if you drive an hour and a half away... People would look at my lineup... I can go play this broken game... for 50 cents. It's like, then go.'
?
community_signal: Clear divide between high-spending home collectors (who mod games and spend $50-60k on collections) and location players (who are price-sensitive and search for free coins), creating tension in the same hobby community
high · Alan: 'There is the money doesn't fucking matter – the guys that have the space and the income to buy these crazy collections... And then there's the people that play on location that could be the cheapest motherfuckers you'll ever see.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.154

0:00

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan. I'm the host of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast, co-owner of the Portland Pinball Bar Wedgehead. I'm here with my co-host, Alex the Waterboy, in his basement studio. Howdy. Today we're joined by our friend on the East Coast, Mitch. He's an operator who works under the name of Pinball Over Boston. Mitch, how are you doing today? I'm wonderful, guys. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Big, big fan. Well, we're happy to have you. Yeah, so I guess I want to start just with off the top. You operate in Boston. What made you start operating pinball machines, and when did you start? And do you operate other amusement games as well, or are you like a strictly pinball operator? Sure. I'm actually coming up on my 10-year anniversary. I can't even believe it. Dude, congrats. May of 2014. Thanks so much. It's like I try not to even say it out loud to jinx myself because it's just like, you know, I never wanted to end. It's the best job I've ever had. But long story short, I was lucky enough to grow up with a pinball machine. My family got a nitro ground shaker. A nitro ground shaker when I was about like seven years old. So imagine seven-year-old Mitch Mann looking at that art package and playing that game. I was hooked for life, and I became full-on obsessed during college. And then when I entered the working world in Boston, there were pinball machines around, but they were all just broken and destroyed. It was one big operator that just was more quantity over quality and would just like dump, like rotate the same broken pinball machines everywhere. And, you know, this is a long time. This is like early 2000s. So I would call the operator. They had their number on the game. And I would say, hey, I'm looking to play your games. I would try to report an error. And I would just get yelled at on the phone. I'm like, man, this is like not a fun system. Yeah, exactly. So it was this terrible operator that kind of motivated me. Next to where I was working, there was a pool hall called Flat Top Johnny's where this bad operator had some pinball machines that just were, you know, the type just like completely abandoned, but like no tilt bob, barely working. But at the time it was like, all right, you can still kind of play it. So I was happy. But I got to know the owner and then asked him, I'm like, look, these are broken all the time. I can provide working games. I didn't even have games. I just sold something I didn't have. I said, let me bring you working games, and I will curate a collection here. I'll try to run some tournaments. And he took a flyer on me, and he said, yeah, bring in some games. And I had no idea what I was doing to the point where I brought it. The owner was like, all right, bring in some games. We'll do something. And the other operator still had games here. And the other operator was like, what are you doing? You broke our contract. We had to buy out their contract. It was kind of a nightmare just to get the ball rolling. Mitch, tell me about this contract. Do you know much about it? Of the bad operator? Yeah. So the big operator in the New England area, what they would do is just, you know, they would basically cold call on every single bar, restaurant, truck stop, anything, and just drop a couple games, and they would – their contract, I believe it was eight years, and it would automatically renew. Whoa. And basically, if you tried to cancel it at any point, it would be a breach of the contract, and then you would have to pay them to take their trash games out. Can you believe that? I've heard of similar, so I can believe it, but it's just insane. That's not something we've ever really touched on on the show. That's why you mentioned it, Mitch, and I was like, wait a second, hold on. You need to explain this. That's insane. That sounds like mob shakedown tactics. You're like, hey, here's some shitty games. If you want them out of here, you've got to pay us. There's a restaurant owner that tried to do the same thing, like had this bad operator with broken pinball machines and was like, I want to bring in an operator that takes care of this stuff. And it was like lawyers had to get involved, and it was like he basically had to pay them to take their junk away. That's crazy. But anyway, this level of operator inspired me to be like, well, it's this shitty. I can do it better than that. Eventually, I was able to do it at Flats Up Johnny's with just a handful of games. My first four games, if I remember correctly, was the High Speed 2, an 8-Ball Deluxe, a Lord of the Rings, and an austin powers i saved the best for last dude nice austin power is like obviously us that have been in the hobby a long time austin powers isn't one that comes up often but i know that game earns and that's a cool little lineup for your first four that's a good variety i like that thanks man i appreciate that like at the time i just didn't know what i was doing i was like well i can get these games i got them i was not the best tech i say that the only thing i knew how to do was ask for help and accept the help there was just a lot of quality collectors and enthusiasts around Boston that would be willing and patient enough to help me. And like, I would try to make it easy for them to answer my questions. Like if I had a broken game on location, I would bring them the entire game to bed. Can you help me with this? Just so they didn't have to drive into Boston and it could get fixed. And it was just, you know, I've always held myself to the standard of like, nothing should be out of order ever. And if it is, you replace it. And it's like, that's the only way you can maintain a reputation because the second that starts to slip, you're done i totally you're dead on in what you just said as far as like i don't think i've covered it on the pinball operators spotlight series yet a really good piece of advice for anyone that good pinball operators already know this but people that are considering it maybe taking some of their own games or they're listening to mitch's story and they're going oh that sounds familiar that sounds like my town where there's only broken shitty games but i want to play good pinball and the thing you need to know is you should have a couple of games that are working that you can rotate in because if you have a game that goes down with a major problem the best thing you want to do is always have every game fixed within 24 hours or 48 hours or you know like reasonable and obviously like sometimes you have to order specialty parts and stuff but your reputation is people walk into a place and they see games on and they see games playing well and that is your whole reputation so what's very helpful is if you have a few extra games like say you start a location you have three or four games maybe you have like six but you need to be working and if you're rotating games in and out that's some advice that i would give to any operator it's something that my business partner has been doing it for 20 years and he does that all the time it's like he always has a game that's like oh shit this is gonna need massive board work so it's like swap it out right and so the customer is just like oh it's time to bring in new blood which you need to do anyway as an operator that that's more advice for new operators is you do need to shuffle your lineups occasionally just to keep shit fresh even games that people love it's helpful if you have like two locations even just swapping them in between the two helps a lot as far as the earnings for both locations but yeah that's awesome that you were able to just kind of you know fake it till you make it and got yourself into that situation everyone starts the name of my memoir i can tell you yeah um i just the only thing i i had i was equipped with just my extreme passion for pinball and like to me anything less than 100 playing was unacceptable everybody compares it to like a sport a sports car with a flat tire it's like what's the point of even driving it so yeah as i say start as small it flats up johnny's it was like the four pinballs machines that i mentioned before that i had to pull out because the other operator was like i will sue you if you keep these games here so we have to get the other operator out bring back in like a month later uh and then just like the as you said like i didn't have the spare game so it's like i had to build up to that and you know i still had a full-time job but what happened was a i want to ask you that yeah real quick sorry to cut you off i want to say when you started i i see from your website that you have three main locations listed you have roxy's flat top johnny's which you've mentioned uh and double bowl right and then you said you're like at the time i had a day job, which I think also is how most people start. How long did you have a day job for? What did you do before? And how long before the route became your full-time job? Sure. So before I was an operator full-time, I worked at a company called Gentle Giant Moving Company. So I started in college just as a mover, humping furniture around. And then... That's good experience for moving pinball machines. This explains a lot, honestly. I swear, it came in handy. And from the trucks, I went into the marketing department, but just always had the passion for pinball. Started the two games at Flat Top Johnny's, but what allowed me to leave and leave Gentle Giant and pursue operating full-time was a second location was opening up and they wanted a larger arcade. They saw my handful of games at Flat Top Johnny's, which was like a golden tee, a couple pinball machines. Another operator had a skeeball machine there and Roxy's said, will you do this for us and having the two locations with it was not that many games but roxy's was kind of like a nightclub arcade like a bar arcade where they were able to pack it in it was such higher volume um and we had a very favorable split at the time because the the owners they were in the restaurant industry they weren't in the arcade industry so we they offered us this great split you know when they finally opened it was earning enough and i joke that i wasn't making very much money at the moving company allowed me to choose to focus on pinball full-time because I was realizing if I had set the standard of keeping these games working 100% every day, I needed to be in these locations like every single day. And I don't like to be in the location when it's open to the public. So it's like, I couldn't have the nine to five and commit fully to the pinball thing. I know other upper can do it and you kind of have to, but my situation was unique where two strong locations right out of the gate yeah so i i got really lucky i guess long story short do you have a rough idea of how many games you had on location at between those two spots at that point or how many games do you have now really like how many have you built up to now at at your three locations uh i think total total pieces of equipment are probably like 70 um 70 to 80 that's a lot thanks man you know it yeah really but it's grown so organically and and kind of slowly where it Flat Top Johnny's. I said, we started with two games, but like every month I would, you know, be in, be in talks with the owner, be like, Hey, we're going to do an, we're going to do a tournament this coming Sunday. Can I bring in an extra game or two? And he would say, sure. And then Monday would come and I wouldn't remove them. And then the next month they'd be like, Hey, we're doing another tournament. Can I bring in another game? So we like went from two games, like by the time the place closed in COVID, I think we're up to like 12 pinball machines. They were back. It's a pool hall. We had games back by the pool tables because the owner is a pinball fan. And he also saw the community. There was no place like it. So he saw the people coming in day in and day out. Like you had your pool regulars and you had your pinball regulars and you know, he knew what it meant. And as I said, they closed in the pandemic. And when they reopened this earlier this year, it was like, I was thrilled to get the call of like, Hey, we're going to be doing pool and pinball again. Will you be the operator? I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Can you describe sort of your three locations and the different vibes of each one of these to people that aren't in the area and haven't been to them? Sure. So my first ever location, Flat Tops, it was right by MIT in Cambridge. It's right next to where Google has their office, Microsoft. So it's like the tech hub. So there's a lot of foot traffic there with the work after work corporate crowd. And there's the student crowd from MIT a little bit later in the day, but then there's also a strong like cyclist community. It's really a mix of everybody there. Anytime you go to Flat Tops, it's kind of like a the different crowd, but it's a good melting pot. But while it is an all-ages place, and what I've seen, it's mostly adults. We can have like adult settings on games, the volume turned up a little bit. And then right up the street, literally a half a mile away, is Roxy's Grilled Cheese, which is you walk up, it's just a non-assuming grilled cheese storefront with a couple tables, but then it has the speakeasy door where you open up like a freezer door, and then you enter the bar arcade area. Oh, very cool. Yeah, I think I've seen that place. Yes, similar to like Sunshine Laundromat, right, with the hidden door type of thing. Yeah, I believe Sunshine was first with their laundromat, and I wasn't part of that planning process. The owners were like, oh, we want it to be like the speakeasy vibe. But it really is cool when you open it up and see and there are 10 pinball machines there It a tight space It not big So it really I crammed every single square inch I possibly can but it 10 pinball machines there it like it a tight space it not big um so it really i crammed every single square inch i possibly can but it uh 10 pinball machines and about 30 arcade games like the skeeball and all that and that is a 21 plus all the time yes you're like a classic operator kind of now you started because you're interested in pinball but yes for the listeners at home because i've talked to people in dms about this all the time because they go how come the only operator in my region they just have these broken ass pinball machines and i go the reason they do that if even if they don't care about pinball is because they're trying to win accounts so they're like maybe they operate pool tables jukeboxes some golden teas some buck hunters or whatever but a bar it's like hey i want a couple pinball machines and to get that account and to win that business they go all right i'll order some pinball machines and they'll throw them in and then just forget about them what you're doing is like i'm a pinball head so i'm always going to make sure the pinball's around and you're sort of doing the reverse but that's why you end up with people that are like because people are confused i've heard this so many times so like but why even buy them why even operate pins why even do it if you don't like pinball and i go because they're trying to get the account to make money on the jukeboxes and the pool tables and all the other shit and so they're like they look at us like okay i'll buy a couple pins and just let them rot right like i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying like that's just how it works yeah it's nice to see it go the opposite way for once yeah yeah my kind of my world kind of came crashing down soon soon after i took over roxy's and was the sole operator covid happened that shut me down forever and i listened to your story um the other day on your episode where you went into what you guys did with your free play pod model which i thought was really smart yeah that was a wild guys obviously survived it really i mean it was just it was a scary time because i went from like thriving business ready to take on an arcade to i'm completely out of business did you rent any games i never did okay um i was i was asked a lot and you know i had plenty of games but i was nervous if i'm being honest because you know you have to get into a contract situation and you know what if something happens? Am I the hook for tech support? And I was like, is it really worth it? So I wound up just, my extra games, I would just loan them to friends. And you're a good friend, Mitch.

15:13

I mean, we definitely loaned some games, like because business partner, Rhodes, he ran out of storage space. He's never had to store all of his games at one time because he does have a storage space. He's got a house and right. Like, so he was stuffing games in my garage and other people's, but we started running games and and roadsy still rents games to this day i think what is interesting is what you just said you're like i'm nervous and i understand that it's funny because i think what the opposite is very true of there's a lot of home collectors in the country that are like oh i have to buy these games because there's no good pinball around me i have to drive two hours to get to a location and you're like well why don't you operate those games like why don't you find your flat top johnny's or your local bar that needs it, make the connection and put these games out. And it's because a lot of those guys are terrified of how beat up these games are going to get on location. And so I find it interesting that you've been a route operator and you were afraid of like the home use environment. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, it was just a skip. My approach during COVID, I had a really smart idea. When COVID hit and I had to take all my games off location, I wanted to sell them before the prices spiked. So I sold them very, very low. And then when we were coming out of the pandemic, actually the timing worked out perfectly with a Double Bowl Tap House, my other location. They were opening in May of 2021. It was a restaurant, again, long story short, one of our league players that from Flat Top Johnny's was having a conversation with the bar manager of this restaurant group where they were trying to rebrand their restaurant. They went from a fancy steakhouse and they wanted more of a tap house vibe. So my friend of a friend was able to put in a word for me to get to, you know, to go in front of the owners of the restaurant and pitch them on pinball. They have this beautiful upstairs balcony with them. Like, we can put a row of 11 pinball machines. They're like, no, we want like one pinball machine and like cornhole. I'm like, no, no, no. Yeah, totally. Like you need more. Yeah. One of the parts I like about the job is it's all pinball because I think it does sell itself. You just have to present it the right way and like trying to understand what people maybe aren't connecting with or like because I'm sure you guys see it all the time. Like you have a free play location. Hey, come play X, Y, Z game. Oh, no, I don't want to. I'm not very good. I'm not good at pinball. I don't want to play. It's like, buddy, it's on free play. I'm trying to sell people on pinball. The free play helps to get people in. That's one of the reasons why we did it, which brings me up to the next question is I want to talk about, you know, you're operating on a route. So your price per play, you know, model. and I want to ask you like what is the going rate for pinball how do you price your games on location great question so for the longest well when I started 10 years ago I once I geared more towards towards like newer sterns like to the year 2000 beyond I was at a dollar per play okay and I was and I and back then I got pretty much roasted for it because you know an hour and a half north of us there was an arcade that had 50 cent play on all their pinball machines so people would be like hey you know you can still play 50 pinball yeah if you drive an hour and a half away that's like and just in boston that crummy operator i mentioned before they had some 50 cent 75 cent pinball around boston and people would look at my files of shit hey i can go play this broken game i can go play this piece of shit for 50 cents it's like then go yeah go knock yourself you have no idea how how much that rings true to us man i feel the same way when i'm listening to your show i'll be listening to your show in my car and i'll be like oh my god everything they're saying right now is just ringing so true it's like uh i connect with everything you guys share in your show because i feel like we have the same similar experiences i want to yeah because i want to say like i felt like on the east coast for a while it had been you know a dollar play with stan i mean stern's been shipping games for over a decade now where a dollar play is their standard recommended price and what happens on location is people do this thing where they're like everyone's trying to race to the bottom they're the games get more expensive and pinball machines break and hopefully you have a good scene or you can build a good scene and so your machines are getting played which is awesome because you're making money but then the machines are breaking so you're maintaining these games and it's hard to make money on the games especially when you're always reinvesting in new games and fixing them and all that stuff and it's funny but there's always someone in town or in any region where they're like oh i'm just going to charge a quarter less i'm going to charge under market and this will be cool because then i'll get all the their customers will come to me and you're like i mean it's cool if you're operating great games and you maintain them but if you're just yeah again not to talk not to talk out of turn about anyone in our region but there are definitely operators that under charge for their games and so we deal with the same thing even though we're a free play arcade now people will still go well i can go play this piece of shit over here all day right and you're like yeah but that thing's a piece of shit like i mean you can i don't know why you would but there are some people that are so unbelievably cheap and it's it's almost comical because i'm this i'm like i really don't care like pinball to me also alex and i and i know you are as well mitch it's like we're all accomplished pinball players like we're all good pinball players so like for us pinball is like you bet your ass you right it's cheap right like it's like the better you get at pinball the cheaper it gets but what's interesting is a lot of the guys that complain about the price are very good players and that's what drives me nuts is when i when you see someone that you know can play you know a jurassic park for 20 minute games every single time and they're complaining that it costs a dollar a play it's like fuck off dude like that does not matter to you yeah it shouldn't matter You were talking about the difference of like literally 75 cents or something over an hour of entertainment. Like if that's what's making the difference, maybe you should just be staying at home. Like at the end of the day, and I don't know, I don't want to just keep seeing, you know, as a consumer, because I'm not an owner or anything of Wedget. I'm just a fan. And I don't want to just keep seeing prices go higher and higher. But the prices for playing pinball are like stuck where they were 30 years ago. What's really funny about the hobby of pinball is that there's two extreme sides of it. There is the money doesn't fucking matter, the guys that have the space and the income to buy these crazy collections for their house, and they're buying $2,000 or $3,000 toppers, and they're modding their games, and they're doing all this crazy shit, and they're sending parts out to be powder-coated and all this crazy shit, right? And then there's the people that play on location that could be the cheapest motherfuckers you'll ever see. You know, they're checking coin reject slots for free quarters, right? Like they're trying to snipe games that kids match on and then walk away from, right? Like they're trying to do all that corny shit. And it's funny because it's like that's the same hobby. They exist in the same world and it's so weird. Even those guys that have the really expensive collections, they'll buy LEs or whatever and they'll mod them out. They'll go on location and go, a dollar a play? I could just play my games at home. You're like, yeah, I guess since you already spent 50 or 60 grand, I guess you can, but it's just wild, the disconnect of money, like price per game. Well, it's also just one thing I wanted to mention. When Flattop Johnny's reopened at the beginning of this year, my concept being so close to Roxy's, which has a lot of the new Stern Pros, I was like, let's try to go premium games at Flattop Johnny's. So I got an Elton John in there. I got Elvira in there and Black Knight Premium. And I raised the prices. So I think out of the gate, Elton John was $2 a play with a bonus. It was like $4 for $5, I think it was. But I wanted to just raise the prices a little bit to see what kind of resistance. And honestly, I think I lost customers. I think I really upset people. So what happened with that? Well, I'll tell you what happened. People played Elton John. That's been a very solid game. As a player, I've enjoyed that game. As an operator, I've enjoyed that game. It's awesome. But yeah, I think by having high-priced games, premium games, upon opening, I think just like it gave the location like bad word of mouth within the local pinball community because it's like, well, I can go to other places. Flattops is right up the street from Pops' Pinball, which you know those guys, and they have – they've got the 50-cent to a dollar-priced games, and it's like people just kind of wrote off Flattops. I think – maybe it's all in my mind. Yeah, knowing pinball players, I can definitely see that. I can definitely see how some people might just be immediately turned off if they hear that. I want to say, like... I just want to point out for, like, any listeners that don't know, Elton John, at minimum, is a $13,000 game. The fancy one's $15,000. Like, these are ludicrously expensive machines when you're talking to new J.J. Lee's. Right, it's basically two Stern Pros. Yeah. So you're basically like, hey, a Stern Pro, I'm charging a dollar. I'm buying two Stern Pros in one game. I could charge two, right? And that's simple math, but it doesn't math in pinball players' heads. They don't see the value proposition, which is what we struggle with. Which is disappointing. I think some of the people that were like shitting the hardest about it were the ones that should do that math in their head of like, oh, this is a super high-end game. And actually Elton John's a long player too. That's what I was also going to say. They shouldn't see that value there. And it's frustrating to me that they don't, but I'm not about to get in the weeds with it with the individual players. But just to circle back, with the pricing, I've come down a little bit. So Jaws Premium just went into flat tops the other day, and it's $1.50 a credit, five for $5. Okay, so if you buy five, you still get that dollar. That's the thing to me. It's the other thing. If you're doing the price breaks, if you're doing the price breaks for, like, multiple credits, if you're there with a buddy or something, then you're like, oh, well, this is as cheap as it'll ever be. And you're probably happy as an operator because you know that thing is getting utilized more, you know, the time, the number of plays is going up. so it's like you know i don't know there's always like a there's people will complain no matter what you do but we can have a whole separate podcast just on that because people just complain but no part of my thought with but i got an elvira house of horrors and i put that at two dollars and my thought was like i hope nobody plays this because the second people do it's going to fall apart and then i have to fix it speaking of games falling apart we wanted to talk about this because Favorite topic. I want to ask you I basically I see that you operate almost exclusively new games I see that you have Oh man I knew you guys were going to give me shit for that No no no no I'm not, hey, listen, I'm not here to give you any shit. I'm seriously not. I think this is why I was very excited to talk to you was because I really want to talk about this and why you see new games on location. So I was going to say, I see that you operate almost exclusively new games, but you do have two solid states. You have Dolly Parton and Evel Knievel. I just want you to explain to the listeners why you buy the games you do and why do you put them out? And like why if someone's like, hey, why don't you have this WPC game, this 90s game, or why don't you have some more of these solid states? Tell the listener honestly, like from the business perspective, tell them why you operate new games. Sure. As I said, I've been doing this for about 10 years and I've had a pretty decent variety of errors. Like I've had my Addams family and I've had a fun house. And as a player, I think they kind of get old. And I think as an operator, the most exciting thing you can do for your location is bring in a brand new game, especially if it's one that's brand new to the entire world. So I got in the routine of every, you know, four months, a brand new Stern game would come out. And there weren't that many other operators that were doing what I was doing that would be, you know, with the Stern army, be the first one to have it. So it was always important to me to get the brand new game, be the only location to have it, and have that exclusivity. So just over time, my collection became very stern heavy. With that being said, I've bought a lot of the Chicago Gaming ones. Any new release that catches my eye, I like to get just to keep it fresh. And on the other note, I love my job. I love being an operator. I can do the tech work. But I've got to be honest with you, it's not my favorite part of it. Like I started this business, I started this as a hobby business because all I wanted to do was play working pinball. Yep. And, you know, every time I'm on the job and it's like, okay, I'm done with my work today. I'm going to go play. I'm going to go play for fun. Sure enough, something is wrong. I got to take the glass off. I'm like always working on pinball machines. And for me, I have it stuck in my mind. If it's an older game, it's going to be more problematic. It's going to be more time, more frustration for me, more parts I have to carry. just more i'm going to say aggravation so in my experience like having new games with parts you can get has made my job a little bit less frustrating that's why i asked because i felt like i knew the answer but i wanted to talk about it on the show because this is sure these are all in very important things to understand about making it your job especially you like where you're like you're a full-time pinball operator this is how you support your family right like this is how you support yourself i have a family i don't yeah i don't want to be you know screaming at pinball machines at the garage at nine o'clock at night i want to have like that balance yeah so it's like when you buy a new game you're getting a few things you're getting much better reliability on average just because a lot of even if you're talking about the 90s classics like the williams classics a lot of those boards now are rotting out components right like a lot of those caps are drying out right bridge rectifiers you they have the famous connector issues that would get toasty and burned up because they'd be running too much voltage and just general like they've been out for 30 plus years and just the wear and tear and they have a lot of physical mechs that are one-offs to their games which means specialty parts like you're saying and so other thing that i don't think you mentioned but i'll bring up is like a lot of those games are just as expensive as like a new stern pro because they're not being made and they're sought after by collectors and so you're like okay yeah when you're looking at it you're like it's a hard proposition like we love whitewater when you're looking at like an eight or nine grand grand whitewater versus a brand new jaws premium you're like uh which one's gonna which one's gonna be easier for me and which one's gonna earn yeah it'll be easier to maintain more people will play it on location so you'll make more money and it'll break less and so um as cool as like we talk about on the show all the time how much we love old games and how much we love varieties of games and that's sort of you know my mo at wedgehead is like we always mix shit up like we always have em solid states you know 90s dmds up to the modern shit we get all the new shit too or we get all the new sterns like we really don't dabble outside of that other than chicago gaming we do but we don't go jersey jacks and we don't go with spookies on location we do have a tna but outside of that like we don't really but i i think it's just important for the listeners to understand that like there's a reason why this happens and it's like one they get played a lot two sterns despite what you might see on forums extremely reliable games yeah operate you know and as a player i think they're super fun and replayable that's the thing a lot of people really just genuinely prefer them no a lot of players really love sterns and they want to play sterns so you got to have the games that people want to play your business and i also i think just as a hobbyist it's always fun when you have different operators in town when guys kind of have their own niches and so if there's one guy that you know i was just about to mention that yeah i was like if there's one guy you know is always going to have the new release that's awesome if there's you know guys like pops we've had on the show previously and they kind of do some goofy stuff and they have a lot of like old oddball games and some very cool stuff they put out too you're like that's great the variety is awesome and it makes for a good pinball scene they brought you up they're like well mitch already does all the new games and he keeps them in tip-top shape so it's like we'll just go play mitch's games you know pops is putting me to shame they are doing such an incredible job like with their location just the variety of games like how they rotate them oddball games but they've also just built such a community of pinball players that just love each other as much as the location as much as the games it's really remarkable to see and i feel like with my new with my new stirs i feel so on the outside i'm like man my my shit is so whack compared to what they're doing like i swear like it keeps me up at night how good they are and how beloved that location is i'm like yo my places suck no i hope you don't feel like it's natural when you're always like uh you know like oh so many people love this place or whatever but what you're doing is you're you guys collectively and they spoke fondly of you yeah no we we have a great relationship i was i was going to say that we grew boston as a scene like yeah that's it you're collectively weaving the fabric of like more cool places with good dedicated operators who are pinball heads that want to provide pinball on location is what makes people get interested in pinball and play in your scene and mitch if you're ever if you're ever feeling bad about like your lineup versus theirs and feeling like your place isn't as cool if my first time playing pinball was on a popeyes i don't think i would have ever played another game so i wouldn't be i wouldn't be too self-conscious in that regard yeah they're just giving them shit but i've put time in on their popeyes and i'm trying to see the silver lining i'll let you know how that's going they should make that thing a novelty they should put that thing at two bucks a play everyone would be like something special must be going on this popeyes it's two dollars a play uh that'd be funny like sorry we're trying to keep the mileage down on this one yeah she's a collector okay before we're we're kind of running up on time here but i really wanted to talk about and bring up your alternate translates i knew of you before we took we spoke a little bit before the show but i knew of you far before i knew you were an operator or knew you in any capacity of this podcast because i had seen your moonwalking dead which is walking dead you replaced the trans light with a uh thriller like michael jackson you know piece of art and you also on that one you did some modifications to like under the play field with some michael jackson toys did the code swap for the michael jackson songs right Yeah, so that was in the early days of Flat Top Johnny's where I had to be very selective of like what game I could actually purchase. So I hemmed and hawed over a Walking Dead Pro and a Star Trek Pro. I'm like, oh, which is the better choice for location? And I would deliberate. I was so new to it. I would spend like days keeping myself, oh, what are people going to want? And it was right around the time where the code got updated on Walking Dead and like fleshed out the modes. Nice. And it was like, oh, man, this is a killer way. so i was like and i was just recalling now like with star trek i'm like oh it's such a similar steve richie land i'm gonna go with the interesting walking dead so i get this walking dead and i have it at home for a little bit i'm getting ready to put it on location and i'm like i wasn't that familiar with the show so i'm like watching the show playing the game and i'm like this well walker is the ugliest thing this toy it's just hideous it's just hideous and i'm just like there's got to be a better looking zombie toy and i was like and i grew up a huge michael jackson fan like i was born in 82 and i'm just like the thriller is imprinted in my brain so i was like oh it'd be funny to get a little mj toy for the well walker and my friend david shoemaker another private collector mod master he helped me install it while he was doing that the uh are you familiar with the pinball browser software i am but for the listeners that's just software that allows you to replace assets in like the existing code on a pinball machine correct exactly you can kind of pull up i just mess around with the audio you you can modify the dots but i have not done that but you can look at basically every audio file on the game and if you know the game inside and out you can be like oh this is the song for the shooter lane this is the song for that it's a little bit of figuring out the puzzle but you can just replace every single sound file and i just you know love of mj i just did that so it made it just you know it's it's just more of a re-theme like i didn't change anything on the play field i added some toys and but it does such a good job it's it's funny because that's a game that when i got into pinball i played the walking dead i've never seen the show the it's i'm just kind of not into i guess zombie stuff so it never really appealed to me too much but the game's great and so it's one of those games that it's like well i love this game but i only buy theme like themes for my house if i like the theme or the games for my house if i like the theme and then after seeing your moonwalking dead i was like oh my god that's perfect like you took a game yeah because yeah it's so dark and i just added some lightness to it um but you didn't like abandon the theme yep it's like just like added some pop to it yeah and it's just a really good marriage of the of the two ideas it works on it just works great i love that thing thank you man thank you man like it makes me laugh because the songs really do like bicycle girl is pyt and like uh there's like a lot of this just like it worked really well and it makes me smile every single time i play it i wanted to bring up so i had seen some other i'd seen some other ones from you and it's funny because every time i would see a post of your games on reddit or something and i think i saw stern nba that you did a larry bird uh translate for and i was like yeah i clicked it and i was like this looks great like this is another really good one which is you're sounding ignorant it's larry legend dude like please larry goddamn legend yeah come on now you gotta respect the man i'll tell you something it's like there are some collectors that probably even before they receive the game they've already spent three grand in mods like you know what i'm talking about totally um so from for me it usually comes from a place of like oh i want to like make this a little bit more palatable for me like as i said walking did i thought was like an eyesore both on the translate and that toy so i'm like all right and then if you ever seen the end uh sterns and yeah it's translate not a great translate it's like the worst picture of every all-star like shack shooting a free throw with his like tongue hanging out like yao ming walking into a telephone pole it's like they're just it's like a shitty translate and that one too like i could modify the music a little bit and i was like you know from boston it was going to be at a Boston location. I'm like, oh, let's make it Larry Bird. And like, I don't want to change the cabinets and all the decals in the play field. It's just like, I can make this game more special to me personally for like 50 bucks. I'm like, I think I'll do it. What I was going to ask is, are you doing the, for like the Moonwalking Dead and this, are you doing like the design work yourself? Like actually coming up with the overlays and sending them out to printing? Are you outsourcing? So Moonwalking Dead, that was the first one I ever did. And there's, have you ever heard of the location in Ohio called the Super Electric. Yeah, in Cleveland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were doing some printing So I reached out to them and said here the image I looking for which was just like a promotional picture from the set of the Thriller video I like I want this with the text up here and then they printed that for me But since then, basically like the Larry Bird one, I just found a great image of Larry Bird shooting a three over Michael Jordan. Just for the people that are listening that don't know this, and I'm not from Boston. I'm not a Boston Celtics fan. Larry owned Mike when Larry was playing. I'm just saying that he did. So I know MJ is the goat for most people. Larry owned him. Like Mike never beat Larry in a playoff series ever. Alan's just trying to win over Boston guys right now. I feel like this is all a big plot to move wedge over there. I'm just saying, well, part of my favorite hobbies is besides pinball is I really love watching old players talk about the, how the sausage was made. And I love, and I love hearing Larry Bird trash talk stories. It's like one of my favorite things. legendary trash talker legendary trash talker and so i'll watch youtube videos of of other nba players being like oh man larry was bad dude like he would just tell you what he exactly what he was going to do and then he would just shoot over your do exactly that make funny like just and so and i watched the whole video about how like larry was badder than people remember and he gets dismissed but it's like jordan was in the league with larry and larry was winning championships and jordan wasn't. He didn't start winning championships until Larry Bird retired.

43:35

You put it out there. That was one of my questions for you, like, in the operator vibe of, like, How do you guys keep from kind of getting burnt out by it? And like, how do you keep yourself having fun? Like, how does the grind not get to you? As far as operating or as far as social media in particular? But all of it. But you guys are running your location. You're there all the time. You're interacting with people. You're interacting with games. And on top of it, you have to do all your marketing, all your events. It's a lot of work. And I think people sometimes don't realize how dedicated you have to be to still bring that joy. Because there can be some frustrating days being an operator. I feel it sometimes. I was fixing games right before I came over here. I stopped by the bar and it's normally my day off. But I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to fix some games because they're down. And then I'll come over here and I'll record this podcast. Social media, I don't think we're particular. I do the social media. I don't. I've talked to this about Alex and to other operators. is I don't, I'm not particularly good at it and I don't particularly like it. But what I try to do with our social media is I try, I'm really bad at like being like, Hey, we have a special thing. Hey, come try out this new cocktail or this new burger or whatever. Like, I'm really bad at, at that because I'm like, yeah, that's what everyone does. You know, like, I'm like, everyone does that. Everyone sees it. Yeah. They know, they know what we have. They know when we're open. Right. But it's like, but you're like, but you need to do that. But it's like, I would always tell Alex, I was like, part of the best part about running your own business is that it's yours for better or for worse. And I was like, I'm going to work all the time. I'm not going to make a lot of money, but it damn sure should feel like me at the end of the day. So I always think about it like for better or for worse, Wedget is me, right? Like in my business partner, Rosie, but it's like, I spend so much time there and now we do the podcast and we do all this stuff. it's like it's a reflection of me warts and all right like my good character traits and my bad character traits are evident right like i don't want to run a corporate arcade in any fucking way like those places are like death to me like i just i can't stand walking to those places and like just like this is cornball shit to me no offense to anyone listening i guess i should um but i don't think those people are really listening to the pinball podcast they're operating games and they got the model down and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think it's for me, the burnout is especially with social media. It's like I just try to focus on just the stuff I like and I just try to make sure that I'm always like, all right, well, don't don't be too abrasive, you know, like don't be too much because I'll do things like this is this is Alan filtered. Yeah, this is me filtered and edited. um no but i i like even when i was talking to to ty and daniel the guys over at pops they were like we really like following you because you'll call motherfuckers out and i'm like really no like i love that about you guys and i was like i was like man that's like me edited huh because i remember i posted something where i was like yo stern what the fuck's up with the service outlet why is it in the back box this is stupid like i need to solder things why did you move something that was in the bottom of the cabinet for you know 60 years and they were like i can't believe you said that and i was like well why wouldn't i say that like we're we love stern like we buy stern games they do well for us but i was like we're a customer like yeah why like what the fuck is the service outlet doing back there because it saved them nine cents of wire i know dude and it's it's annoying i hear about it from operators so the operators are like i'm so glad you said that i'm so glad you said that i'm so glad you say these things and they're like you call people out and i was like i hope i'm not just a person that just calls people out, you know, cause I don't want to be that necessarily, but I do have the, I, I don't have the fear of like, like a corporate arcade because it's me and my business partner, Rosie and Rosie's a good friend of mine. And we're, we have similar personalities in the important ways, you know? And so we're wedge heads are reflection of us. Like I always say for better or for worse, like when I talk to electric bat people, or when I talk to the pops people, or we're talking to you right on these operators spotlights, It's like our businesses are a reflection of us. Like, I don't want to do these with people who I don't see something in or I don't admire. Like, I'm not here to do corporate arcade BS. Like, I'm here to talk to, like, cool operators that are passionate about pinball and what they do. That shines through to me immediately. Like, if I go on somebody's thing, I could be like, this person's genuine or, like, whatever. Even if it's, like, stuff like you're, like, you love all the new Sterns, right, and you operate those games. You're like, oh, you're going to roast me. I'm just like, I'm not here to roast you. like it's like those aren't my preference but also like we operate those games because and i know why we fucking operate those games because people love those games right like so it's like i'm like the oldest 37 year old man you'll ever meet where i'm like ah it's got to be solid states and ems like that's what gets me like jacked up about pinball right but as a business it's like i'm just like i want to see everything and i want to i want to see people that are genuinely excited about pinball throwing events doing it day in day out because it is a hard job it's a lot of work like being a pinball operator is a lot of fucking work for not a lot of money and i know some people will be like oh man well mitch charges a dollar for his games he must be loaded i i don't know you personally but i guarantee you're not doing that so just for the listeners at home because there are some location pinball players that are just like man i can't believe they're doing this to us they think you're like the sheriff of nottingham from the old robin hood cartoon where you just bending people over the kid with the little kid with the crutch and he bends him over and he pat his cast and like the coin pops out and he was trying to hide. That's what they, that's what they think of me around here. I hope not. There's something to be said about quality and always getting new games and getting games. I mean, because we even have that in the Portland market where there's the next level out in Hillsborough and they do a great job and they'll get some of the Jersey Jack games, but none of the other operators really buy them anymore because yeah, it's just hard. They're expensive and people don't play them, But then some customers will be like, how come I never see these games? And I go, you wouldn't like what we'd have to charge for them is really the biggest answer. Yeah. And so it's like people should be happy that someone's taken a taking a flyer on any of these games. You know, like Alex is a big spooky fan. And so he's like, you know, he owns a couple. So his money is where his mouth is. But it's like as far as like us operating them, you know, it's like, hey, it's a hard sell, man. Yeah. It's hard when we could just buy a Stern that we know is like reliable and will earn well and will hold its value and people will like playing. People like playing. Yeah. Not more than just like once ago. Sounds like I've converted. You're going to change the name from Wedget to Stern LCD.