We are connected. Ed Owens, we are standing right now over Ghost in the Shell. Uh we we've talked about this game for years. It's been around. I think that you're I I just did a presentation and you were in the veteran uh homebrew category. You've been around doing homebrew stuff since the beginning of all this stuff. And I'd love to hear like what you think about homebrew as it is now.
Well, um I was I you know starting off with you saying been around forever, but I I really don't feel like I wasn't the first crew. I was the first group to really take advantage of what the foundation everybody has built. Okay.
Because uh I know you've been in the home group for years building that foundation. And uh so when I got started there was I wanted to do it for years but there was things that were missing though. There wasn't a easy hardware platform. There wasn't a software platform. There wasn't the support network. And when I got started, I realized that there was people doing things like the original Doom game, uh, Scott Danesi's work, uh, amongst Wolf Marsh and a lot of other guys who have built a foundation and then all of a sudden like there's two to three hardware profile program or
platforms. Platforms, that's a word. Yeah. Words English. We love it. We're only on what is it? Friday. We're only on Friday and it already feels like we've been here up for like a week. a week and a half.
I'm right there with you as far as like trying to find words, you know.
And then software, there's there's two uh at the time two major software platforms to go with and uh uh so really it was the the timing was right and uh someone from the home group community just said, "You're going to build this game. You said you wanted you're going to build it. You did a custom." My custom game was a Greyhounds a race home, which is a rethe of big game into a Greyhound pet adoption, which is another thing that I volunteer a lot of extra time on and meeting with people cuz I have my own Greyhounds and I I I feel pretty confident on that. So really, the foundation was there, but I I feel like I was the maybe the beginning of the big push. I I I think that like eventually people are like turned on to the idea of like making and creating things. I think that a lot of this homebrew stuff lined up perfectly with the maker movement. So now we're seeing there's facilities with the tools that we don't have that would let us make the pinball that we know, you know? So, so not only is it like like what would I make, how would I go make a pinball machine, but now you're like I want to figure out how to use that tool and I could actually bring pinball to life in a way that looks more like what we know pinball to be. and and think about the timing and I don't know when it became you know things were invented but when did things become mass availability and I got into this I I know the years because it's when Midwest Gaming Classic moved facilities I started in their old facility and their first new place is when I launched this game 2017 2018 that's when that's my that's my home show I've been going to that since 2008 and that's really where I know this game think of 3D printing
3D printing was very expensive, very poor and uh
it was it was something we fantasized about as kids like if I could just make that thing. It was like out of sci-fi and then we had it and it became available in at that time and I met somebody in the community that was very big in 3D printing. I say I want this and he's like well your machine can't do that. I'll print it and mail it to you. Or like um on the backbox, you see those globes and those are from like uh Alvyra Party Monster. Yeah. And I wanted to use the [music] the P3 uh light that goes through with little tunnel that fits in there. [music] So I needed a clean little tube with a ledge here, a ledge there, and I just drill a 5/8 hole. And I sent the measurements to Joe.
And Joe Zenis, right?
Joe Zenis. That guy moved like 10 minutes from my house. Like Joe Zenis is awesome. He he's been he's been my uh my one of my my aces in the hole that got me here.
And I sent him like a pencil drawing his measurements. And he sent me an ST. I didn't know he was awake. Uh he sent me an STL like
2 minutes later.
Yeah.
And I put that on my printer and printed in clear and I said, "Hey, uh so within 10 minutes of me coming up with the idea, I had the physical part and I said, "Hey, can you uh just tweak this one thing?" Sure. And I printed three of them. And I hate to be a bother, but like it's just a little too wide. Can you fix it for me? You know?
Oh, yeah. No problem. Here's four options.
Yeah.
Like we uh and we originally had for the where the wire form comes down, there was a little black wall cuz I wanted to dump it. I wanted that just to dump off, but then I realized the ball hitting the wood was going to destroy it. So, I dumped it into the ramp. And uh much like um somebody else in your talk was saying, I didn't want to Oh, Tony. Um I didn't want to just wire for him to the flippers. I didn't want to do that either.
I needed it, but we had a little wall. Here's three different textures of the wall. Like, all right. So, I used it for a while and I realized I did the wire for him. Well, you know what's really cool is like a lot of times like somebody like I know personally I love to jump into somebody else's problem real quick, help out, and then get out of the way because, you know, we all have our own projects and stuff, but sometimes you need a break. And I do think it's fun when you present a very clear need and that somebody else's brain can run around and go, "Dude, let me make that for you." Right. That's a that's a very cool way to collaborate, you know.
Yeah. And that that's where um I I did 90% of the work on this. I'm not going to say 99% because I standed on the shoulders of other people.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants here.
Exactly. The home crew is built on like the people that popped in and popped out that we don't even see anymore. Others that have been here since, you know, since we started it and stuff.
I had like I I wanted to do this uh [music] now he's very close to it. Once you get the drop targets down, I have this really cool kind of it's an add them all feature and um uh I actually the people that sorry uh that some of the the targets are hard to hit. If you hit it in lane, you actually complete the fit target. So he just did it. So you got the extra ball. There's no scoring difference.
The stellar experience like everybody just saw that happen.
But there there's no scoring difference. There's no modes. There's no nothing. It's just I like Centaur. Yeah,
here's an extra ball. Have fun. Beat targets down.
And you can keep doing that. You can unload the whole trunk by constantly dropping the drops and it gets easier just like in Centaur. You know what's crazy? Not crazy. I mean what I I've heard a lot of at this show for some reason is like people have a few things they hearken back to, you know, like you talking about not not wanting the ball back to to to the inlanes and stuff like just these little concepts that you're like this is the limitation I'm going to put on myself for this game. And I love seeing that because pinball is like, you know, it's it's it's a game experience based on limitations. It's the size you have to work with. It's the routes you have to go. And so when I hear designers saying, I'm choosing not to do this or, you know, I'm trying to introduce these features from this classic game I love. It's fun to see like what that limitation does to the design process itself, you know?
Yeah. And another another thing along with the limitations is he was having trouble hitting the G right now,
which is why I give the inlane switch. And of course, these switches are going to be a little bit more sensitive, so you could back roll it in. I I should do that, but
that's on purpose. My first pinball I ever owned was a hot tip.
Okay.
You cannot hit all the drops in the hot tip without playing the pop-up. Interesting.
And so, you cannot hit all these drops without playing the popup. And you have to you have to get it right. You got to get that action going. And that's that's one thing I wanted to to add. I didn't know what you did in lane. Yeah, you could go up to the other playfield, let it drain, and it's going to swing around and hit it.
So, that was something I always wanted to make it um have fun with it. But, uh you it really sounds like like you're taking a lot of feedback. You know, you you you've probably sat and watched people play it. You're seeing how they're experiencing the game. So, adding those code changes to keep the game enjoyable. I mean that that's something that like I think everybody bringing uh their game even in early stages to these homebrew like to these shows uh it's going to give you something that that that shot you think you can hit every time muscle memory is automatic a casual user can't even get there you know just cuz I'm the designer and I I've got this shot down doesn't mean everyone can. And one thing I I also had uh Ghostbuster syndrome where uh when Ghostbusters first was released with the code you had to complete Slimer to start a mode. Well that sucks suck sucks. Well, I had the same problem where for now, actually, I changed it. So, the mode is already uh you're already ready to start it. So, the mode start shot as a left scoop and then that's but then you delete the drops and then that's going to start the mode again. This this code is really raw. Uh I need to add code. I need to add art. But it's still a fun game to play and everyone enjoys flipping it here. I mean, like I said, I in the presentation I just did, you're in the veteran category because it is a game that people know, they recognize when it comes here. Um, I think you you mentioned the Greyhound game. I mean, that was one I I think just in still getting to know you that you use the game to show something else that you're passionate and that you care a lot about. So, pinball is a way to, you know, start conversations and get to know each other personally. When I did your take on that, you know, when I did the Greyhound game, I wanted to do a homebrew a whole rule set and everything, but there was no partner, no community. And without that community, I I didn't have an ego. I I didn't even start. So, I'm like, "Okay, find a game that um I can The audio is not specific." And I I was able to do everything with the skill set I had in my garage. I did that game in a vacuum where uh nobody I didn't know of anybody else and I brought it to shows be like, "Oh, that's cool. Did you see so and so?" Cool.
Yeah.
You know, I I have heard that. I mean, we heard that in the talk earlier. It's like uh Craig with the the Simba Will game. He's like, "I didn't know there was this community here." And I to me that that blows my mind because I mean I All that I got to know about pinball was like really through community, you know. But
the spot shot to the left of the drop or the the standups. Yeah. Or the stand downs, whatever you want to call them. That That's So there you go. Hit that two more times. You got uh the big multi.
It's It's hard to get off that that ramp. And yes, I know. I thought Sorry.
We're We're doing what we need to do here, you know.
Yeah. No, but this is actually a great format for for showing off the game.
Well, and I do think that like I mean this what we're doing right now in real time is what so much of hanging out in the home space is about. We're standing around. We're watching some pinball get played. We're sharing stories. I mean, all the good friends that we make these days comes from time spent. I've been saying that like all weekend long. Like literally being in the same place together, standing around playing pinball. Like it's it is the social connection that we need in this modern digital technical age, you know? So,
yeah, the biggest takeaway is I mean, uh, the community is what got me to be able to build a game.
It's how we met. I mean, it's like we want to see selfishly every Homebrew user wants to see all of us make more pinball so we can play more pinball.
And and the thing with it with this platform as well, you know, everyone, it doesn't matter what hardware platform, what software we all in it together. Someone has a problem, everybody is going to come together to to help you out.
Oh, I love it. And I think that that's where too people come running up. They're like, "Do you have a multimeter? Can I borrow your soldering iron?" You know, it's like I'm almost more curious like, "Well, what do you need it for? I want to come watch." You know, and it's this weird like, you know, you're observing people working on projects, but my kids give me crap about like why do why do you and all the other dads I know watch shows about people working on things and it's like this is what we like to be around. We like to see this stuff, you know? And again, I like having this conversation, watching you observing the player playing.
He's better pinball player than I am, [laughter]
man. This has been a lot of fun. I mean, I all the time we get to spend here being forced to stand here over your game and chat like this is awesome, you know, and I think that these streams, this is fantastic. So,
we're getting the cut off message.
It's been great talking to you, Ed.
Same here. Well, I I uh thank you guys. Thank you for playing with it. Absolutely.
You hit all the shots, all the fun stuff, and uh thank you for everything.